OK, is this the worst piece of music writing ever?

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From this week's R&R (Reviewed & Rated) section of Exeter University Guild Of Students' magnificent student paper, Exeposé...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/njsouthall/Screengrabs/onsellingoutexepose.jpg

Scik Mouthy, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:17 (ten years ago) Permalink

Argh, nu-ilx has shrunk it slightly past readable; here's a direct link - http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/njsouthall/Screengrabs/onsellingoutexepose.jpg

I just boggled at this over my lunch.

Scik Mouthy, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:18 (ten years ago) Permalink

"Jonny" is a name for gaywads

Dom Passantino, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:20 (ten years ago) Permalink

This only proves again that editors and writers are two different professions. Hence the two names.

StanM, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:22 (ten years ago) Permalink

You are actually posting a scan of an article from a student newspaper as the basis for a thread, aren't you? Good lord.

Matt DC, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:25 (ten years ago) Permalink

It's a screengrab from the pdf off the website! They didn't have a normal text version...

Scik Mouthy, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:28 (ten years ago) Permalink

can you link to the website? photobucket seems to be banned here.

acrobat, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:29 (ten years ago) Permalink

http://www.exepose.ex.ac.uk

Scik Mouthy, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:30 (ten years ago) Permalink

goes from strength to strength -- feeder mention is possibly the high point.

That one guy that quit, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:31 (ten years ago) Permalink

System of a Down's top 20 single was six and a half years ago, fact fans.

Dom Passantino, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:32 (ten years ago) Permalink

"Recent developments in music have given Architechs a top 5 single"

Dom Passantino, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:33 (ten years ago) Permalink

surely this can't be THE jonny garrett?

http://www.myspace.com/chasingfaces

StanM, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:33 (ten years ago) Permalink

(yeah, they have a myspace already, the sellouts)

StanM, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:34 (ten years ago) Permalink

I suspect it must be, StanM.

Scik Mouthy, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:34 (ten years ago) Permalink

I assume, from their name that they like Snow Patrol and The Small Faces.

Scik Mouthy, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:35 (ten years ago) Permalink

um, holding up articles by students as examples of 'bad music writing'? talk about shooting fish in a barrel. Matt DC OTM.

blueski, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:35 (ten years ago) Permalink

Following in the footsteps of West Country acts like Muse and Thirteen Senses by already winning over interest from various major and independent record labels, things are definitely looking good for the boys. Having recently been asked to support New Zealand favourites The Checks who have just finished touring with the likes of JET and Oasis.

"I know someone who knows someone who knows the guy from Young Heart Attack quite well"

Dom Passantino, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:36 (ten years ago) Permalink

blueski and Matt DC offtm, this is the new web2.0 media era, we're all critics now, user provided content is the new professionally written content.

Dom Passantino, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:36 (ten years ago) Permalink

Even in the realm of student media this is BAAAAAAAAD though, Steve - I flick through Exepose every week and this is BY FAR the worst thing I've ever seen in it; hence not starting a thread every week.

Scik Mouthy, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:37 (ten years ago) Permalink

Haha I used to write for that paper. I wonder how long before he Googles his own name and finds it.

Matt DC, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:39 (ten years ago) Permalink

It would be so wonderful if he googled this thread and responded. What an utterly thrilling discussion and exchange of views that could lead to.

blueski, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:40 (ten years ago) Permalink

Hey, with any luck he might hop over to ILE and start posting about his sex life or something.

Dom Passantino, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:41 (ten years ago) Permalink

(my question: is the article motivated by his own band possibly signing to a major soon?)

StanM, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:42 (ten years ago) Permalink

Maybe I should unleash the views of Chris Erasmus at you all?

Scik Mouthy, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:42 (ten years ago) Permalink

Haha, yeah, I'd imagine so, StanM.

Scik Mouthy, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:43 (ten years ago) Permalink

Hello Jonny's mom! No, he hasn't posted about his sex life yet. Try again later. Bye, ILX.

StanM, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:43 (ten years ago) Permalink

blueski and Matt DC offtm, this is the new web2.0 media era, we're all critics now, user provided content is the new professionally written content.

-- Dom Passantino, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:36 (11 minutes ago) Link

Dom is entirely correct here. I mean, the chuckle factor is diminished by him being a student, but the democratization of criticism basically leaves us with this sort of landscape (coughcoughP.E.W.cough).

sanskrit, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:54 (ten years ago) Permalink

also why do nearly all student newspaper writers write in what feels like the same voice? there's certain syntax and word choices that only student newspapers ever seem to have.

acrobat, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:59 (ten years ago) Permalink

Nobody knows how to sub-edit when they're 21, that's why.

Dom Passantino, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:03 (ten years ago) Permalink

^^not unrelated to why writers in the say, New York Times tend to sound the same. for that matter, ever read Blender? Despite the bylines it seems to be written by one many-armed poprockbot.

m coleman, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:04 (ten years ago) Permalink

that really is quite incredible.

jed_, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:07 (ten years ago) Permalink

New York Times doesn't have sub-editors? That's crazy!

acrobat, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:08 (ten years ago) Permalink

Hey Jonny, your band fucking suck.

Noodle Vague, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:10 (ten years ago) Permalink

Jonny Garrett of Exeter University, that is.

Noodle Vague, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:11 (ten years ago) Permalink

I think you mean <a href="OK, is this the worst piece of music writing ever?;>Jonny Garrett</a> of Exeter University.

Dom Passantino, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:14 (ten years ago) Permalink

BOO HTML

Dom Passantino, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:14 (ten years ago) Permalink

Kudos on sticking it to Westlife, tho, Jonny Garrett of Exeter University. Those bastards have had it their own way for too long.

Noodle Vague, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:15 (ten years ago) Permalink

Does Westlife even exist anymore?

Tuomas, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:16 (ten years ago) Permalink

highlights:

"...bands like westlife who can, quite frankly, go screw themselves with a rusty spoon and get tetanus"

"had nirvana not signed to sub pop... we would probably never have heard one of the most influential artists of our time and dave grohl may have never founded the foo fighters."

the pathos!

jed_, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:17 (ten years ago) Permalink

but the democratization of criticism basically leaves us with this sort of landscape (coughcoughP.E.W.cough).

democratization of criticism = people slagging this shit off just because they can rather than for any constructive cause. it's just easy target practice, who gives a shit? no-one/nothing is ever going to stop under-grads inheriting these absurd ideas about 'how things should be' in the music industry. surely we've all read this same article many times in the past.

i'm just more relieved than ever my music writing from college days was too soon for blog-era internet heh.

blueski, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:19 (ten years ago) Permalink

"had nirvana not signed to sub pop... we would probably never have heard of..." Sub Pop.

NickB, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:21 (ten years ago) Permalink

Was there ever a thread for people to post their own abysmal juvenile music writings from uni days?

Michael Philip Philip Philip philip Annoyman, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:21 (ten years ago) Permalink

Not that I'd post on it, my capsule reviews of Kinesis singles were all fuckin bang-on.

Michael Philip Philip Philip philip Annoyman, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:21 (ten years ago) Permalink

perhaps one day i will post my 8/10 track by track review of 'Be Here Now' from the time.

blueski, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:24 (ten years ago) Permalink

Yeah, you real writers are all jealous that you've lost the ability to write like that, aren't you?

StanM, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:26 (ten years ago) Permalink

I wrote a two-part article in my uni paper called "Rhythm & Sound", which basically stated that all rock music that's based on melody or lyrics is boring crap, and that beats and sound are the essential components of good music - hence electronic dance music (and fusion jazz) is the best music there is. I got some angry comments from the indie kids.

Tuomas, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:27 (ten years ago) Permalink

Kudos on sticking it to Westlife, tho, Jonny Garrett of Exeter University.

and kudos to you lot for bravely and relentlessly going after such a signifivcant target as jonny garrett. sure showed him!

ts being one of many thick students w/ bad music taste who can't write, vs being someone who actually gives a shit about what said student writes in some minor student rag

or, matt'n'steve otm, u r all losers

lex pretend, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:27 (ten years ago) Permalink

but the democratization of criticism basically leaves us with this sort of landscape (coughcoughP.E.W.cough).

student newspapers have nothing to do with the "democratization of criticism"

Curt1s Stephens, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:28 (ten years ago) Permalink

I can't copy and paste from the Exeter Expose, but if you Google you can find a review where our Jonny talks about "Indy music".

Dom Passantino, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:28 (ten years ago) Permalink

also why do nearly all student newspaper writers write in what feels like the same voice? there's certain syntax and word choices that only student newspapers ever seem to have.

paul please, please tell me you don't actually care about the answer to this

lex pretend, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:29 (ten years ago) Permalink

paul please, please tell me you don't actually care about the answer to this

-- lex pretend, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:29 (58 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

http://downloadsimpsons.com/files/malibu_stacy.jpg

"Thinking too much gives you wrinkles"

Dom Passantino, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:31 (ten years ago) Permalink

haaaaaa

Curt1s Stephens, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:33 (ten years ago) Permalink

come on everyone, geir gives himself away in the final parentheses.

Frogman Henry, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:34 (ten years ago) Permalink

ha. not sure i care as such! a while back i had a job gathering information on universities, i found it kind of funny that you can go anywhere in the country and every student newspapers seems to be written by the same person. it sort of interests me to know who, if anyone, they are imitating. if my current job was more interesting this issue would, i think, seem rather less pressing.

xp

acrobat, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:35 (ten years ago) Permalink

i love the line about nirvana: nirvana's main block to future gold albums was kurt cobain's inability to accept the "popular culture lifestyle he was made to live", nothing about JUNKIE SUICIDE.

Frogman Henry, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:37 (ten years ago) Permalink

I think it's a lot more interesting to analyse and discuss the views of someone like Jonny Garrett than it is, I dunno, Petridish or Reynolds or Chuck Eddy or whoever. ILX falls into a trap of ivory towering itself, qf whoever it was on the purchase of music thread who was all "two and a half CDs a year? Everyone I know buys much more than that!". We gotta embrace the layman here guys.

Dom Passantino, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:39 (ten years ago) Permalink

keep in mind this kid was like 8 when Kurdt committed suicide and has probably been bombarded by Nirvana mythologies since he started showing an interest in altrock

Curt1s Stephens, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:40 (ten years ago) Permalink

Was there ever a thread for people to post their own abysmal juvenile music writings from uni days?

Heh, this is a great idea. Yeah gotta say though, opinion pieces like this are ten a penny in this strange little further education world

DJ Mencap, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:41 (ten years ago) Permalink

there is thou a difference between "analyse and discuss" and "attack and dismiss"

acrobat, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:42 (ten years ago) Permalink

Maybe in the real world, but on ILM?

Dom Passantino, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:43 (ten years ago) Permalink

I'm still not sure when Cobain was adopted as an indie icon, tbh. When I was a teen, Melody Maker was still all "lol miserable junkie loved by them Kerrang oafs" about him.

Dom Passantino, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:44 (ten years ago) Permalink

I disagree that student writing is exempt from criticism. One's worldview may not be fully formed by the age of 20, but a journalistic voice should be.

Plus, this is just too awful to leave it alone. A phrase like "There has been a movement against corporate music, labels and magazines, which is thankfully disappearing, probably ever since Bob Dylan's move from acoustic to electric" is a jaw-dropper in any context.

Erroneous Botch, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:46 (ten years ago) Permalink

I think it's a lot more interesting to analyse and discuss the views of someone like Jonny Garrett than it is, I dunno, Petridish or Reynolds or Chuck Eddy or whoever. ILX falls into a trap of ivory towering itself, qf whoever it was on the purchase of music thread who was all "two and a half CDs a year? Everyone I know buys much more than that!". We gotta embrace the layman here guys.

This, totally; what kind of culture are we propagating where these attitudes develop? Why does this guy think this? He's in a band, he's at university, he'd self-identify as 'loving music', he obviously has journalistic ambitions at the same time, and he writes this? Yes, he's young, but not all young people are writing stuff like this, are they?

Scik Mouthy, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:46 (ten years ago) Permalink

young aspiring music journalists should go to ILM training camp

Curt1s Stephens, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:48 (ten years ago) Permalink

more liek:

http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B0001Y9YAW.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

Frogman Henry, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:52 (ten years ago) Permalink

Yes, he's young, but not all young people are writing stuff like this, are they?

most of them are, most of them always have, some of them get better as they, you know, grow up - i'm not denying that it's awful writing but i guess the question for me is, do you not feel your life ebbing away from you with every second you spend contemplating this rote and in no way unusual piece of student hackery? do you have this much spare time?? at this point i'mma take my own advice and exit thread stage left.

lex pretend, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:53 (ten years ago) Permalink

Our dominant myths about Art are still Romantic ones: the Artwork is a self-sufficient object, expressing universal truths and the personality of the artist, and has to be grounded in sincere, authentic feelings. Those ideas are still so fundamental (amongst people who think about aesthetics) that most critics have to unlearn them or react against them before they can think about other ways of apprehending music/literature/TV comedy. This isn't exactly a mystery, it's been going on for 200 years.

Noodle Vague, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:54 (ten years ago) Permalink

(b/c you know, if dude ever actually finds this thread, he's just gonna go HURRAH 100-POST THREAD TALKING ABOUT MEEEEE, I HAVE SUCCEEDED)

(ok that's it)

lex pretend, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:54 (ten years ago) Permalink

This, totally; what kind of culture are we propagating where these attitudes develop? Why does this guy think this? He's in a band, he's at university, he'd self-identify as 'loving music', he obviously has journalistic ambitions at the same time, and he writes this? Yes, he's young, but not all young people are writing stuff like this, are they?

I don't know if the age of the writer is that important. There are plenty of people twice his age out there who would write/argue the same things so you might as well be arguing with them on the same basis. Expecting all young writers to reject rockism is too (p)optimistic.

blueski, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:58 (ten years ago) Permalink

<i>I'm still not sure when Cobain was adopted as an indie icon, tbh. When I was a teen, Melody Maker was still all "lol miserable junkie loved by them Kerrang oafs" about him.</i>

Dom, MM *was* pretty much behind early Sub Pop what with all Everett True's coverage and whatnot. I reckon Nirvana were an initially an indie kid thing here before the whole grunge pandemic hit (but I guess you're talking about the period after that).

NickB, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:59 (ten years ago) Permalink

Oh fuck<i>ng tags.

NickB, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:59 (ten years ago) Permalink

some of that piece is kind of chuck eddy like

acrobat, Monday, 18 June 2007 14:02 (ten years ago) Permalink

Garrett doesn't call Westlife a bhangra act though, so there are differences.

Dom Passantino, Monday, 18 June 2007 14:06 (ten years ago) Permalink

I'm talking about bands like Feeder, Coldplay and the Stereophonics who have (over time) offered more to music than many of the bands that the NME claim will change your life.

didn't the NME claim that Feeder/Coldplay/Stereophonics will change your life?

i'm drunk, but this guy should be sacked.

Just got offed, Monday, 18 June 2007 14:09 (ten years ago) Permalink

That's the kind of management technique that'll see you running in JP Morgan by the time your 31.

acrobat, Monday, 18 June 2007 14:11 (ten years ago) Permalink

Feeder/Coldplay/Stereophonics

I MEAN SRSLY THIS IS LIKE TEH AXIS OF EVIL

Just got offed, Monday, 18 June 2007 14:12 (ten years ago) Permalink

he's just gonna go HURRAH 100-POST THREAD TALKING ABOUT MEEEEE, I HAVE SUCCEEDED

I didn't know you went to Exeter.

(xpost oh J4gger's here ding ding ding)

Matt DC, Monday, 18 June 2007 14:13 (ten years ago) Permalink

RULE FOUR NOW APPLIES TO ALL BETS IN THREAD

(exp)

Dom Passantino, Monday, 18 June 2007 14:15 (ten years ago) Permalink

Drunk at 3pm = living the dream

DJ Mencap, Monday, 18 June 2007 14:21 (ten years ago) Permalink

Drinking cider from eleven?

Matt DC, Monday, 18 June 2007 14:28 (ten years ago) Permalink

Not only do I have plenty of articles google'able online that are humiliating - I still write articles on occasion that are poorly written. So, I sympathize for college-music-writer. Can't we at least go after people who get paid to write poorly?

Mordechai Shinefield, Monday, 18 June 2007 14:36 (ten years ago) Permalink

So we should be gentle because of:
- age? ("but the Arctic Monkeys were only 19 when they..." "Oh, OK then, 10/10")
- experience? ("but it's only their first album ever!" "Oh, OK then, 10/10")

?

StanM, Monday, 18 June 2007 14:43 (ten years ago) Permalink

There are dedicated threads for them (xpost).

Marcello Carlin, Monday, 18 June 2007 14:43 (ten years ago) Permalink

Mordechai OTM

I disagree that student writing is exempt from criticism. One's worldview may not be fully formed by the age of 20, but a journalistic voice should be.

No writing is exempt from criticism, but a college kid getting his footing should be exempt from a 100-post sonning by a bunch of adults.

Whiney G. Weingarten, Monday, 18 June 2007 14:44 (ten years ago) Permalink

"adults"

StanM, Monday, 18 June 2007 14:45 (ten years ago) Permalink

If I was the writer in question I'd be more offended by the insinuation that I wasn't an adult myself.

Scik Mouthy, Monday, 18 June 2007 14:45 (ten years ago) Permalink

Burchill started on the NME when she was 17.

Marcello Carlin, Monday, 18 June 2007 14:46 (ten years ago) Permalink

Doogie Howser was performing surgery at 18, does this mean I should start a thread about how some high school kid dissected his worm wrong?

Whiney G. Weingarten, Monday, 18 June 2007 14:48 (ten years ago) Permalink

Please accept my use fictional character as an appropriate metaphor for real life situations. Haha.

Whiney G. Weingarten, Monday, 18 June 2007 14:49 (ten years ago) Permalink

Hang on a tick. This guy is the fucking Music Editor at his university. Not every student is this bloody clueless and illiterate and I'm sure there are gobloads of kids just wishing they could have a go at it (because they wanna write for the NME when they grow up).

There used to be an indie night at the uni I attended where each week they'd play no less than eight Limp Bizkit songs in an evening, and these guys ran the uni radio station. When I asked if I could play one night I got told my style wasn't right. Oh well.

the next grozart, Monday, 18 June 2007 14:50 (ten years ago) Permalink

^^^ poor grammar and typos admittedly non-deliberate.

the next grozart, Monday, 18 June 2007 14:53 (ten years ago) Permalink

He's not even a real music editor, he's not on the team!

http://www.exepose.ex.ac.uk/team.php

StanM, Monday, 18 June 2007 14:55 (ten years ago) Permalink

That's last year's team; they've obviously not changed that page yet.

Scik Mouthy, Monday, 18 June 2007 14:57 (ten years ago) Permalink

Ah, ok - sorry.

StanM, Monday, 18 June 2007 14:58 (ten years ago) Permalink

lol u r all intrenet crepes for talkin bout the guy. how long til Dom finds his facebook?

blueski, Monday, 18 June 2007 14:59 (ten years ago) Permalink

In the next issue: "Pol Pot - His Amazing Journey From Brutal Cambodian Tyrant To Winner Of Britain's Got Talent."

Marcello Carlin, Monday, 18 June 2007 15:01 (ten years ago) Permalink

1 person calls us crepes and that's the end of the thread?

This is exactly how nazi Germa... ok maybe it isn't.

StanM, Monday, 18 June 2007 15:19 (ten years ago) Permalink

that article reads like a GCSE project graded f with only q magazine used for research.

This current teenager yoof bebo generation is even more moronic than 1990s Shed 7 / OCS generation, that dizzy [probably NME reading] blonde on big brother from Bristol, that Exeter Uni Q reading chump, that yesterday's OMM teen issue, NME brit-indie-guitar-rubbish bands everyweek and teenager emo mall kids with fall out boy t-shirts etc etc. Is this the worst generation of kids ever?

Yours in despair, Viktor Martian

djmartian, Monday, 18 June 2007 15:20 (ten years ago) Permalink

I wrote a two-part article in my uni paper called "Rhythm & Sound", which basically stated that all rock music that's based on melody or lyrics is boring crap, and that beats and sound are the essential components of good music - hence electronic dance music (and fusion jazz) is the best music there is.

Tuomas, I'd like to think that, on the other side of Scandanavia, Gier Hongro was simultaneously writing exactly the opposite article.

chap, Monday, 18 June 2007 15:26 (ten years ago) Permalink

It's always the worst generation of kids ever when you're not part of it.

Ah yes, the OMM TEEN ISSUE...

Marcello Carlin, Monday, 18 June 2007 15:26 (ten years ago) Permalink

There's a picture of a new rave kid in that issue, and he is the twattiest person I have ever seen.

chap, Monday, 18 June 2007 15:27 (ten years ago) Permalink

I probably wrote something worse than this when I was in college.

Jazzbo, Monday, 18 June 2007 15:34 (ten years ago) Permalink

So we should be gentle because of:
- age? ("but the Arctic Monkeys were only 19 when they..." "Oh, OK then, 10/10")
- experience? ("but it's only their first album ever!" "Oh, OK then, 10/10")

?

-- StanM, Monday, June 18, 2007 9:43 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Link

wow

Nothing wrong with a little constructive criticism obv. but this kid isn't the Arctic Fucking Monkeys. He's writing something for a university paper and he probably only expected it to be read by his fellow students anyway. It's like you guys are tearing apart some local kids' punk band for playing sub-"Greenday" music at their friends' party or something.

Curt1s Stephens, Monday, 18 June 2007 15:55 (ten years ago) Permalink

Martian you've been warned before about exaggerating the shitness of Shed Seven (at least 3 good songs!).

blueski, Monday, 18 June 2007 16:02 (ten years ago) Permalink

Just a bit of fun, it's not like we're seriously trying to get this guy to kill himself, you know. (I'm not, at least) (xpost)

StanM, Monday, 18 June 2007 16:08 (ten years ago) Permalink

i'm hoping to see this sort of thread on ILE

is this the worst fucking picture of a donkey or what? it's by my 5yr old nephew LOL
look at the rubbish typography on this PIZZA FLYER!!!!!!11 rofllz
babies - fucking idiots or what? they can hardly walk, look at their stupid faces!!!!!

plz

Alan, Monday, 18 June 2007 16:10 (ten years ago) Permalink

never mind the typography there is no excuse for the mind-boggling typos you get on pizza flyers where they have spelled the word correctly in the first two instances but then failed to do so the third time.

blueski, Monday, 18 June 2007 16:13 (ten years ago) Permalink

esp. when that word is CHEESE

blueski, Monday, 18 June 2007 16:14 (ten years ago) Permalink

The single most awesome post I ever came acorss on any internet board went like this: "Cows are such WANKERS they don't even RUN if you THROW STICKS at them."

Scik Mouthy, Monday, 18 June 2007 16:14 (ten years ago) Permalink

xxxxpost please!! please!!!

the next grozart, Monday, 18 June 2007 16:15 (ten years ago) Permalink

maybve one too many x's. that was a reply to alan, not stanm

the next grozart, Monday, 18 June 2007 16:15 (ten years ago) Permalink

OWLS ARE ASSHOLES

Alan, Monday, 18 June 2007 16:17 (ten years ago) Permalink

WITH THEIR BIG FUCKING EYES, WHY NOT HAVE SMALLER EYES? WANKERS.

Scik Mouthy, Monday, 18 June 2007 16:18 (ten years ago) Permalink

condemned to repeat myself

things you notice about owls

Alan, Monday, 18 June 2007 16:19 (ten years ago) Permalink

nick are you joining in the mockery of your own thread?

lex pretend, Monday, 18 June 2007 16:19 (ten years ago) Permalink

But anyway, this guy isn't some kind of remedial five-year-old; this isn't a GCSE-essay; he doesn't need enormous slack-cutting here. He is music editor at a student paper for one of the country's top 30 (possibly) universities, and as as such probably has three A Levels at grades AAB or very close to. He is a smart, educated, priviliged music fan who will possibly one day be a captain of industry, or Chris Martin, or something. He's not a cow or an owl.

x-post - Lex I am merely mocking owls and cows.

Scik Mouthy, Monday, 18 June 2007 16:21 (ten years ago) Permalink

FUCK BEES

blueski, Monday, 18 June 2007 16:23 (ten years ago) Permalink

Simon CowOwl more like

blueski, Monday, 18 June 2007 16:24 (ten years ago) Permalink

Why are you even reading a college paper in the hopes of finding good music writing?

Whiney G. Weingarten, Monday, 18 June 2007 16:24 (ten years ago) Permalink

surely a lot of good writers come up thru student press

blueski, Monday, 18 June 2007 16:25 (ten years ago) Permalink

I'm not reading it in the hope of finding good music writing! I read it while I eat my sandwich, to see what's going on amongst the literate student body, and stumble upon the music pages by accident.

x-post - Hmmm. Well.

Scik Mouthy, Monday, 18 June 2007 16:26 (ten years ago) Permalink

Was it a good sandwich at least?

Whiney G. Weingarten, Monday, 18 June 2007 16:27 (ten years ago) Permalink

OK, is this the worst piece of wafer thin ham ever?

blueski, Monday, 18 June 2007 16:28 (ten years ago) Permalink

Granted it came from one of the top 30 supermarkets in the country but it said 'quality' on the label.

blueski, Monday, 18 June 2007 16:28 (ten years ago) Permalink

You can use that rather reductive approach to stop anyone criticising anythign ever, SteveM.

Scik Mouthy, Monday, 18 June 2007 16:30 (ten years ago) Permalink

surely a lot of good writers come up thru student press

This might be more of a 'despite' than 'because of' situation in a lot of cases

DJ Mencap, Monday, 18 June 2007 16:30 (ten years ago) Permalink

(I speak as someone who put, really, a stupid amount of time into the student paper while I was there, and mainly enjoyed it and learned stuff, but I'd question how much it made me a better writer)

DJ Mencap, Monday, 18 June 2007 16:31 (ten years ago) Permalink

babies - fucking idiots or what? they can hardly walk, look at their stupid faces!!!!!

ha.

this guy, though - as nick said, he's 20-21, he's obviously got some semblance of a brain in his head if he's a. at exeter uni and b. music ed of the college paper (obvious snarks aside). more important, i suspect, is *why he thinks like this* not "why is his writing style a bit naff?", surely?

xpost i spent years at my college paper (inc a year as music editor) but i doubt it made me a better writer. a better editor, yes, and (in the long run) a better sub, but a better writer? doubtful.

CharlieNo4, Monday, 18 June 2007 16:35 (ten years ago) Permalink

Anyone want to make fun of bad high school writing?!?!?!? I have a number of shitty articles sitting in my car!

"H1nder lead vocalist Austin Winker's unique v0ice makes 'Lips of an Angel' completely captivating. The d3pth and emotion of the vocals dr4w you into the lyr1cs of the song. The lyrics and 1nstrumentation make this s0ng a great standout track."

HAHAHAHAAHA SHE CAN'T WRITE AND SHE HAS A BAD OPINION HAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA AND SHE'S 17, FER CHRISTSAKES HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA SHOULDN'T SHE BE VERSED IN KRAUTROCK AND SHIT? HAHAHAHAHAA

Tape Store, Monday, 18 June 2007 16:36 (ten years ago) Permalink

i once made the mistake of reading my own (v poor) college dissertation. SO AWFUL. i wanted to punch the author so hard. i'm pretty sure there are no copies remaining outside of the one copy left with the faculty, who SHOULD have burned it just out of courtesy.

Alan, Monday, 18 June 2007 16:37 (ten years ago) Permalink

But anyway, this guy isn't some kind of remedial five-year-old; this isn't a GCSE-essay; he doesn't need enormous slack-cutting here. He is music editor at a student paper for one of the country's top 30 (possibly) universities, and as as such probably has three A Levels at grades AAB or very close to. He is a smart, educated, priviliged music fan who will possibly one day be a captain of industry, or Chris Martin, or something. He's not a cow or an owl.

He's a decently smart kid with a passing interest in music who likes to write music articles for the school paper; it's not his career, it's not his thesis, it's just Something He Wrote.

Curt1s Stephens, Monday, 18 June 2007 16:38 (ten years ago) Permalink

like I said he's not looking to win awards with his writings, student music reviews are generally just sort of rambles anyway, even ones by Exeter students, as much as we at ILM want our Smart Kids to write Smart Music Reviews.

Curt1s Stephens, Monday, 18 June 2007 16:41 (ten years ago) Permalink

and you know, what the guy is saying is not all that objectionable. there's stuff in there if you pick it out of the noise. "the hardest music to write is commercial music".

Alan, Monday, 18 June 2007 16:42 (ten years ago) Permalink

is age really an excuse here? Have we all forgotten that university age isn't really especially young? I'm sure that most people here weren't a lot different then from how they are now, no? Is being just some random student really an excuse? Surely being music editor at a 15,000 student university should mean something more than being able to express opinions that the average 15-year-old who has MTV2 would be able to express. Although my wild optimism with regards to student publications is notorious. Poor Louis is presumably around the same age as this guy, yet he gets consistently lambasted for having much more sophisticated (if more uniquely nuts) opinions.

Kinda off-topic question, because I don't want to start picking at every questionable comment in the article: is Domino entirely independent?

Merdeyeux, Monday, 18 June 2007 17:02 (ten years ago) Permalink

the 'excuse' is that everyone here probably wrote stuff as bad as that at his age.

this guy wot wrote this rag rant retty much speaks for at least 2/3 of the record buying public in the UK right now (Rihanna at #1 not withstanding) so you can be aghast all you like but don't be surprised at all. it just seems ridiculous to single one person out in this way - if you are to do this pick a paid pro who has more cause to know better...perhaps in a situation where they can defend their position or learn from what you say (so not on ILM then i guess).

we could make a lot of the same points if the thread wasn't focussed on one person's deluded rant but the nature/future of student press generally and that might be better (but probably useless without actual input from student writers).

blueski, Monday, 18 June 2007 17:04 (ten years ago) Permalink

Have we all forgotten that university age isn't really especially young?

yes clearly I have forgotten this

but seriously his age isn't the point here.

Curt1s Stephens, Monday, 18 June 2007 17:05 (ten years ago) Permalink

stevem basically otm

Curt1s Stephens, Monday, 18 June 2007 17:06 (ten years ago) Permalink

re: Domino indie?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domino_Records

Pretty much, I guess. (Depends on what definition of independent you use. They might still have distribution deals with non-independent labels, for instance.)

StanM, Monday, 18 June 2007 17:14 (ten years ago) Permalink

Making fun of Westlife is more cliche than "sounds like (insert band name) on acid". If you're going to provide an example, at least have an ounce of originality and pick a band where a comparison to Green Day or Nirvana is in the general vicinity of apt.

musically, Monday, 18 June 2007 17:15 (ten years ago) Permalink

why even mention any of those 90S BANDS with so much other stuff going on?

blueski, Monday, 18 June 2007 17:19 (ten years ago) Permalink

"look at the rubbish typography on this PIZZA FLYER!!!!!!11 rofllz"

http://www.inkycircus.com/jargon/images/lightbulb.jpg

Frogman Henry, Monday, 18 June 2007 17:35 (ten years ago) Permalink

the 'excuse' is that everyone here probably wrote stuff as bad as that at his age

actually as bad? Besides, I'm much more interested in looking at student press in general than pillorying this one poor sap too; I would have no interest in picking apart the blog of a 20-year-old who wrote like a 15-year-old, but I'm just kinda bewildered that this kind of thing could under any circumstance be good enough to be from someone in the role of music editor.

Merdeyeux, Monday, 18 June 2007 17:40 (ten years ago) Permalink

although as PIZZA FLYER has reminded me, I recently saw a poster for a student newspaper which had about ten spelling mistakes on it, so yes, I should stop expecting any kind of standards from them.

Merdeyeux, Monday, 18 June 2007 17:42 (ten years ago) Permalink

Person who has role as student music editor = someone who wanted to write about music, who might not necessarily have tastes outside the mainstream, who might not even be that well-educated about music. Just someone who has a passion for the music they listen to. It would be one thing if music editor were a highly competitive position in the student paper but most likely the kids who are really "into" music are off doing other more specifically music-related things with their spare time.

Curt1s Stephens, Monday, 18 June 2007 17:48 (ten years ago) Permalink

like joining a radio station and doing actual, meaningful reviews for distribution companies :-D

Just got offed, Monday, 18 June 2007 17:50 (ten years ago) Permalink

curtis, stop calling him kid. if he was 8 when cobain offed himself, that means he's older than you.

John Splith, Monday, 18 June 2007 17:54 (ten years ago) Permalink

I know that John, I wasn't calling him "kid" as a term of derision, I call myself "kid" :/

Curt1s Stephens, Monday, 18 June 2007 17:54 (ten years ago) Permalink

maybe Britishers do things differently

Curt1s Stephens, Monday, 18 June 2007 17:55 (ten years ago) Permalink

I mean I'm not trying to patronize/insult the guy's intelligence here and say "oh he's just too young!" That's not the point. This thread is set up to pit his article against the broader tradition of "music writing" which I don't think is appropriate for an article someone wrote for a student paper. Though I may be biased in my perceptions because I go to an engineering school where the student paper isn't a reflection of the skills and career goals of the students.

Curt1s Stephens, Monday, 18 June 2007 17:57 (ten years ago) Permalink

yeah sorry curtis, i'm just seeing the usual uber-geek shit-slinging on display here and getting all defensive. it is an awful fucking article, though.

John Splith, Monday, 18 June 2007 18:00 (ten years ago) Permalink

xpost noodle, aren't you a swans fan?

John Splith, Monday, 18 June 2007 18:01 (ten years ago) Permalink

doing actual, meaningful reviews for distribution companies :-D

Congratulations! (NOW I understand why there's a "sounds like Mansun: 3.5/5" score next to every album)

StanM, Monday, 18 June 2007 18:03 (ten years ago) Permalink

I'm going to start scanning album spiels at our radio station for Jaggerisms

Curt1s Stephens, Monday, 18 June 2007 18:05 (ten years ago) Permalink

i don't think the point is how old the dude is - as a student, if i'd read something of that standard/expressing those opinions, i'd have gathered everyone i knew to point and laugh. i like to think i wouldn't have allowed it in the mag when i was editor, but i probably let worse through - so few good writers in uni also willing to hand copy in on time. at his age i was better than this, but not especially good.

the point is that it's really weird and mean-spirited and not a little pathetic for 20-something professionals southall/passantino/scott to spend their days ripping an article in a STUDENT RAG (and a REALLY MINOR ONE at that) to shreds - i mean, what will it be next, a-level essays? i'm especially disappointed in nick, who i'd thought was above this sort of pointlessness.

lex pretend, Monday, 18 June 2007 18:13 (ten years ago) Permalink

also, i think writing for the student paper DID actually make me a better writer.

lex pretend, Monday, 18 June 2007 18:13 (ten years ago) Permalink

i'm curious how seriously the students themselves take this sort of writing in these papers. surely it can't be seen as that representative, even if they are official papers.

John Splith, Monday, 18 June 2007 18:16 (ten years ago) Permalink

Lex, we must have a good point in ripping the article though, or else you wouldn't have made so many posts to this thread.

Dom Passantino, Monday, 18 June 2007 18:29 (ten years ago) Permalink

about 4? you don't have any point beyond LOL STUDENTZ, though.

lex pretend, Monday, 18 June 2007 18:34 (ten years ago) Permalink

Eight.

Dom Passantino, Monday, 18 June 2007 18:35 (ten years ago) Permalink

Wikipedia says...

Tape Store, Monday, 18 June 2007 18:37 (ten years ago) Permalink

Another lovely looking campus (an especially nice line in daffodils in the spring), with the occasional dreadful looking building thrown in to stop you getting too cocky - one of them looks like it could be used to breed giraffes in.

Curt1s Stephens, Monday, 18 June 2007 18:40 (ten years ago) Permalink

In 1997, a new Exeposé logo was designed based on the Carlsberg logo (as shown in the gallery below) and from 1997-2000 the paper proclaimed itself to be 'Probably the Best Student Newspaper in the World'.

Tape Store, Monday, 18 June 2007 18:46 (ten years ago) Permalink

Quality of school in not equal to quality of individual shocker!

Most of the best music writers I know went to shitty state schools. Many of them didn't even go to college. When I was in college, I remember reading music articles on UWire that destroyed the community-college-level music writing that I saw coming out of the Ivy Leagues.

Whiney G. Weingarten, Monday, 18 June 2007 18:51 (ten years ago) Permalink

lex i have made like 5 posts on this thread and they were on the whole vaguely whimsical points about student papers in general and a couple of crap injokes. i agreed with you that the "attack and dismiss" approach is stupid. i'm not sure why you are attacking me.

acrobat, Monday, 18 June 2007 18:53 (ten years ago) Permalink

This is the BEST piece of music writing ever. Every word is sooooo correct and soooo spot-on.

Geir Hongro, Monday, 18 June 2007 19:07 (ten years ago) Permalink

fake geir

Curt1s Stephens, Monday, 18 June 2007 19:09 (ten years ago) Permalink

wait never mind I reread the article, possibly not fake geir

Curt1s Stephens, Monday, 18 June 2007 19:11 (ten years ago) Permalink

its not that his points are necessarily wrong, its just that everything he uses to "prove" his point is stupid

Catsupppppppppppppp dude 茄蕃, Monday, 18 June 2007 19:20 (ten years ago) Permalink

multixpost

Hi John yes I'm a Swans fan, why d'ya ask?

My student newspaper In Utero review and my interview with These Animal Men were way better than this article, oh yes, honest.

Noodle Vague, Monday, 18 June 2007 19:25 (ten years ago) Permalink

Person who has role as student music editor = someone who wanted to write about music, who might not necessarily have tastes outside the mainstream, who might not even be that well-educated about music. Just someone who has a passion for the music they listen to. It would be one thing if music editor were a highly competitive position in the student paper but most likely the kids who are really "into" music are off doing other more specifically music-related things with their spare time.

This is totally OTM. The guy might be putting a load of ideas forward that are completely ass-backwards but he obviously gives a shit about this stuff. I think you do have to sort of be wary of the ILM bubble where the idea of people being really passionate about Feeder or something is the height of absurdity, despite the fact that there are way way more of huge-scare-quotes "them" than of "us".

DJ Mencap, Monday, 18 June 2007 19:59 (ten years ago) Permalink

Another lovely looking campus (an especially nice line in daffodils in the spring), with the occasional dreadful looking building thrown in to stop you getting too cocky - one of them looks like it could be used to breed giraffes in.

Hahaha I had totally forgotten about that! It was k-rub.

I'm pretty sure I read worse music writing by the then Music Editor when I was on Exepose ten years ago. And I'm fairly sure I let worse through when I was editing a different student mag, don't get me started on the Toploader interview I was forced to print.

Matt DC, Monday, 18 June 2007 20:19 (ten years ago) Permalink

"So, Toploader, why are you named after an outmoded, inefficient washing machine?"
"We just make music for ourselves, and if anyone else likes it that's a bonus. WESTLIFE SUCK DUDE!"

Noodle Vague, Monday, 18 June 2007 20:23 (ten years ago) Permalink

what is difference between toploader and cornershop

Just got offed, Monday, 18 June 2007 20:29 (ten years ago) Permalink

Everything

Noodle Vague, Monday, 18 June 2007 20:31 (ten years ago) Permalink

before i jump in, how is this 175 posts? has the author showed up?

That one guy that quit, Monday, 18 June 2007 20:32 (ten years ago) Permalink

Nah, it just devolved into Sharks vs Jets and some kid got stabbed.

Noodle Vague, Monday, 18 June 2007 20:34 (ten years ago) Permalink

I disagree that student writing is exempt from criticism. One's worldview may not be fully formed by the age of 20, but a journalistic voice should be.

um NO

That one guy that quit, Monday, 18 June 2007 20:39 (ten years ago) Permalink

yeah, some of us would be pretty screwed if that were the case

(zingproofing: YEAH I KNOW i'm screwed anyway)

Just got offed, Monday, 18 June 2007 20:41 (ten years ago) Permalink

not just 'some of us' but pretty much all writers one could name. 20 is pretty young! i wrote shitloads when i was a student, some of it was almost as bad as this guy's. it's a shame they have to grow up in public (via the internet) in a way.

That one guy that quit, Monday, 18 June 2007 20:46 (ten years ago) Permalink

Person who has role as student music editor = someone who wanted to write about music, who might not necessarily have tastes outside the mainstream, who might not even be that well-educated about music. Just someone who has a passion for the music they listen to. It would be one thing if music editor were a highly competitive position in the student paper but most likely the kids who are really "into" music are off doing other more specifically music-related things with their spare time.

lol i was that "Person". the mainstream is an illusory category. if your audience is students the mainstream is different than what it is if you're writing for 12-year-olds, or for monied fuck-witted amoral east london twentysomethings.

looking back, ALL positions in the student press were competitive! and the music editor got free cds to hand out, got into gigs for free. i was briefly socially successful at that time. fyi writing about music qualifies as a "specifically music-related thing".

That one guy that quit, Monday, 18 June 2007 21:15 (ten years ago) Permalink

One of the previous music editors at Exepose also worked as a freelance music/gig photographer and promoter in the area; he ran club nights and had exhibitions of his pictures in a local venue, etcetera. My friend Steve (who was doing an MA at the time and writing for the paper - how I got to know the music editor) and I had to convince him that Prince was 'a respectable musician' once, but, you know, he wasn't ignorant, music wasn't a 'passing phase' or something. He was seriously into what he was doing. I'd imagine this guy is too.

Just look at the input on this thread, and ILM / music journalism in general - people who get involved with the music coverage at student papers often end up moving into it as a 'career' (haha @ Alex calling me a 'professional music journalist' - I've earnt a few hundred quid from it at most and never approached a publication with my writing in my life; it's really not my career and I'm not sure how it can be anybody's) in one way or another, whether that's writing or in PR or anything else - for all I know this guy could be doing a business or law degree and end up in the music business that way.

I never got involved in my own student paper music pages because I had an awful first term at university and lost a lot of confidence - I assumed that anybody involved in the paper in any way was going to be a MUCH better writer than I was and that I didn't stand a cat in hell's chance. A few years down the line and yeah, I realise that had I gone for it I'd have been as good as if not better than a lot of othr people, and maybe I'd have been a writer fulltime rather than a library dude with a hobby, but who knows.

I'm not really interested in this guy; I'm certainly not interested in slagging him off (although the idea that he's saying 'major labels are gr8!' and seemingly being courted by them via his band at the same time screams 'conflict of interest'); what I am interested in is the hows and whys of this article; not 'how was it published?' because we've pretty much established that student papers will publish anything (what was the thread a few weeks ago about the NYC student paper and the awful, offensive sexual helath feature), but 'how are these attitudes fostered, why are people thinking this, is this typical, if so, who is it typical of?'

I also think it's quite interesting re; the education system. University's basically a factory that teaches you to absorb and reinterpret data, to analyse and digest and critique and report and synthesise; this guy's a second-going-into-third-year at least, and probably given the average ages of Exeter students and numbers taking years out and so on, 21; why's he not got a more sophisticated approach than 'Westlife bad, Feeder good'? Granted there is an interesting thread in there re; the difficulty of 'writing popular music' and the whole marketing-of-music issue, but if he's doing either arts or business he ought to be more sophisticated in one or both directions.

Scik Mouthy, Monday, 18 June 2007 21:57 (ten years ago) Permalink

University's basically a factory that teaches you to absorb and reinterpret data, to analyse and digest and critique and report and synthesise

even if that were true (am unsure), people involved in student journalism are not exactly worker ants! student journalism is what people do instead of going to lectures.

That one guy that quit, Monday, 18 June 2007 22:08 (ten years ago) Permalink

True; given a conversation I had this evening with a mortgage advisor, I think my reasons for going to university were different to most of my contemporaries', and are even more different to people there today.

Scik Mouthy, Monday, 18 June 2007 22:11 (ten years ago) Permalink

enrique otm, although sleeping is what we do instead of going to lectures, student journalism happens when we ought to be consolidating our lecture notes later on in the day.

Just got offed, Monday, 18 June 2007 22:12 (ten years ago) Permalink

I'm just being idealistic, I guess; I'd like to think that everyone at university is there for the good of their intellect, and everyone writing about music for the student paper is there because they think music is the single most magical and important branch of art we have. Gilberto Gil and Caetano Veloso being arrested and ending up as (in Gil's case) culture minister thirty years later, rather than Johnny Rotten on Bill Grundy and then on Celebrity Jungle Island Brother Diet Got Talent.

Scik Mouthy, Monday, 18 June 2007 22:24 (ten years ago) Permalink

I'd wager they're more interested in getting their own column in The Sun.

Also some might argue that most students these days are trainee thrusting Thatcherkids who don't have time to know about Tropicalia or punk.

Marcello Carlin, Tuesday, 19 June 2007 07:09 (ten years ago) Permalink

You obviously think too highly of our ambitions, Marcello; most students these days are equally divided between getting a good degree and base social networking. There are about 15 Thatcherkids here in total that I've met.

A column in The Sun is definitely sought-after, though, you've nailed that one. Sadly.

Just got offed, Tuesday, 19 June 2007 09:06 (ten years ago) Permalink

Nobody knows how to sub-edit when they're 21, that's why.

a-HEM.

can't see what all the fuss is about here. i mean, yes, it's a shit article. but it's a shit article that matters not one iota of a fuck.

mind, i'm the daft bastard who's revived the thread after two days dormant, so on my head be it ...

grimly fiendish, Thursday, 21 June 2007 00:45 (ten years ago) Permalink

eleven months pass...

The first person I clap eyes on as I bound into The Paradise is the Radio 1 DJ Sara Cox, sporting a natty pair of green leggings and white hi-top trainers. “Ooooh, I'm so glad you're wearing a tracksuit too,” she foghorns at me, as though across a market stall in Bolton, not a fashionable pub/club in trendy west London. “Why are all these people here not wearing tracksuits? Can I dance near you all night?” she asks.

She needn't have worried — just a few minutes later the pub is teeming with party people clad in all manner of nylon and velour leisurewear, not all of them carrying it off quite as well as Cox.

We're here for Tayo's Tracksuit Party, a kitsch celebration of sports casual that has gone down a storm at Snowbombing and the Notting Hill Carnival over the past couple of years. Until now, it's been a very occasional moveable party.

DJ Tayo's idea for the night came out of his own impressive collection of 90 track-suit tops. He now plans to “do it all more properly”, with a party in east London in July, on carnival weekend in August at The Paradise (which will be the party's more regular home) and a further six parties this year.

Tonight's DJs include Felix B from Basement Jaxx and Frank “Dope” Tope, plus Tayo himself, presiding over the night in a dazzling white fleece tracksuit top and white shorts. In truth, I've been a bit anxious about these tracksuit shenanigans. I've heard the parties are brilliant fun but I wake up in a cold sweat having lurid, neon nightmares about my outfit options.

Stretchy sportswear does me no favours at all and I spend the morning trudging around a rainy Brixton, desperately searching for something that doesn't make my backside look the size of Hampshire. It's not to be.

I settle for some new retro adidas trackie bottoms in a forgiving dark colour and team them with my favourite, super-bouncy orange trainers. I dig out a sort of matching adidas zip-up top (bought during a short-lived period of regular gym attendance) and a red-and-white sports visor I found on a beach in Ibiza. I avoid all mirrors as I leave the house. On my Bakerloo line train the other passengers glare at me and check their wallets.

All five rooms of The Paradise are being taken over for tonight's party in polyester (£6 entry) and by 9pm the place is packed. I have a sudden vision of what Lakeside shopping centre must look like on a Saturday afternoon. Although, of course, most of the punters here are professionals in their late twenties and thirties — their trackies usually only get an outing for Pilates or Ashtanga yoga.

In the main room upstairs, the crowd is getting down to old school hip hop and drinking double vodka and tonics (£5.50). It's a sea of sports caps, hotpants, shell suits, fake bling, huge sunglasses and Vanilla Ice dance moves.

At 10.30, Beeny Royston and Jadell (“two blokes with a bit too much time on their hands,” according to Tayo) take to the stage in Hawaiian shirts and Flowerpot Men hats, to do their “Spinal Tap goes hip hop” thing.

The pair, who scored a YouTube hit with their first record, Straight To Video, are ironic rappers, a sort of London-centric Goldie Lookin Chain. They change into towels, shower caps and shaving foam for another song, then into baseball T-shirts and caps. The rest of the crowd and I love them, but my friend John is less than impressed. He loves hip hop and doesn't appreciate it being performed with irony. I, on the other hand, have never understood how it can be performed with a completely straight face.

After more dancing, we head downstairs to what is usually the restaurant, but tonight is the venue for Have A Go Hip Hop Karaoke. The room is heaving and Tayo bravely kicks things off himself, with a valiant performance of Ol' Dirty Bastard's Baby I Got Your Money.

The crowd is whooping, chanting and dancing on tables as the usually sedate restaurant transforms into a scene from Eminem's movie 8 Mile. Tayo introduces the next guy up — Doc Brown, who blows us all away with his Straight Outta Compton. I comment to the girl dancing next to me what a good impression he does of a rapper. It turns out that's because in fact he is a rapper and has been on tour with Mark Ronson recently.

This isn't karaoke. They've all got record deals! I'm a desperate show-off and totally fancy myself as a singer, but I quickly revise my earlier plan to perform Salt-n-Pepa's Push It — no way, José.

We dance on, flitting back and forth between the upstairs and downstairs rooms and bumping into friends as the party gets ever more wild and chaotic. As we slip away sometime around 2am, I realise I never did give my new friend Sara Cox that dance she was after. But last time I caught sight of her, bouncing around to Run DMC, she didn't look like she minded. Next time eh, Coxy?

Dom Passantino, Thursday, 5 June 2008 10:51 (nine years ago) Permalink

Who wrote this? Princess Beatrix?

Tom D., Thursday, 5 June 2008 10:56 (nine years ago) Permalink

By Jane Mulkerrins, London Lite 30.05.08

Dom Passantino, Thursday, 5 June 2008 10:59 (nine years ago) Permalink

She's a Cambridge graduate, which certainly shocked me, because dumb fucking "Hearts of Darkness" pieces about hip-hop clubs by safari-suited white broads are rarely written by Oxbridge types.

Dom Passantino, Thursday, 5 June 2008 11:00 (nine years ago) Permalink

oh, rarely?

Mark G, Thursday, 5 June 2008 11:02 (nine years ago) Permalink

It's all got a bit Dombot in here.

Matt DC, Thursday, 5 June 2008 11:05 (nine years ago) Permalink

i like how the first two-thirds of the article is exclusively about wearing tracksuits

braveclub, Thursday, 5 June 2008 11:05 (nine years ago) Permalink

What song did you do Dom?

DJ Mencap, Thursday, 5 June 2008 11:28 (nine years ago) Permalink

Chorus:
White girls
(Suzie, Janet Karen)
Going through my mind
(Sarah, Jess, and Judy too)
White girls
(Julie, Beth, and Sharon)
Help me unwind
(The more I see, the more I do)
Don't Tell Minister Farrakhan
(That's right)
He don't want to know what's going on
(Okay)
'Cause white girls won't go away

I've had a lot of education
There's one thing I know about, and that's miscegenation

Ticket to ride, white girl highway
Tell all the white girls, they could swing my way
What up, baby girl?, How you doin, is you single?
Have you ever messed, with a light-skinned Mandingo?
And I could give a damn, what all my friends say to me
You and me baby, could start making up for slavery
Girl, I'm just playin', I got a white mom
You got any Black in you?, (No) Would you like some?
Oh word, you like my songs, that be playing on the radio?
Well you know the sincerest, form of flattery's fellatio

I ain't a picky guy, so I really don't care
If you a hippy white chick, who got underarm hair
Or a ghetto white chick, who be trying to act Black
With your name on a chain, and your hair slicked back

You could be from anywhere, Maine down to Malibu
Cross a trailer park, on the way to Park Avenue
See me with a Black girl, you got the wrong man
Or might have just been, a white girl with a tan
And sisters don't get mad, 'cause I'm out banging white chicks
'Cause we all look the same, when you turn off the light switch

See back in the day, I was getting no play
Then I went the white girl way, like O. J.
So you can call on Kato, but I'm sorry O'Shea
'Cause I got my white girl, and everything's okay

(Chorus)

I've, had
Rich ones, poor ones, I even had some famous ones
Like Traci Lords, Houstin, and Jenna Jameson
Right about now, I'm on probation for three years
'Cause I caught a stat case, for having sex with Britney Spears
Getting head in the dressing room, I bust on her chin
Oops (pfff), I did it again

Gweneth Paltrow always said, I be making her laugh
She gave me head 'cause if I hit it, I'd break her in half
She ain't even the only, white actress on my matress
I even had sex with that, fat chick from The Practice
Bang Katie Holmes, who's always trying to take me home
Call me on the phone saying, "Casey make me moan"
Smoking weed in her dressing room, on a higher plane
I hate country music, want to bang Shania Twain

Whether short or tall, whether blonde or brunette
I ain't met a white girl, who I wouldn't do yet
And I got Alyssa Milano, hitting high notes like soprano
When we all up in my bedroom, making some mulattoes
I really don't think, there's a girl that I missed
I used to like Mariah, 'til I learned she was mixed

For those who's getting furious, please don't take me serious
I'm just wil'in out, like Eddie Murphy in "Delirious"
But if you took offense, and you're Black or you're white
I'm glad you did sucker, 'cause you way too uptight

(Chorus)

Dom Passantino, Thursday, 5 June 2008 11:31 (nine years ago) Permalink

It's a sea of sports caps, hotpants, shell suits, fake bling, huge sunglasses and Vanilla Ice dance moves.

Sounds great. Fake bling: lol black people!

Neil S, Thursday, 5 June 2008 11:44 (nine years ago) Permalink

Jane Mulkerrins was formerly drummer for the rock group Cocorosie

Dom Passantino, Thursday, 5 June 2008 11:45 (nine years ago) Permalink

That Nick Sylvester Pitchfork Weezer review/outburst/eruption from a few years ago remains one of the worst pieces of music writing I've ever read.

Savannah Smiles, Thursday, 5 June 2008 12:58 (nine years ago) Permalink

Coxy? What is this, Tarby's Golfy Diary?

Dingbod Kesterson, Thursday, 5 June 2008 13:02 (nine years ago) Permalink

(oho, on the green with Ademy, Drewy, Kieran Hebdeny and Tuungy etc.)

Dingbod Kesterson, Thursday, 5 June 2008 13:04 (nine years ago) Permalink

Along with the White Girls vid is another one by 'Black Jesus' called 'What it smell like'.

VeronaInTheClub, Thursday, 5 June 2008 22:11 (nine years ago) Permalink

Seems Tim Burgess of The Charlatans has got a gig as a columnist for the Independent's music section. And fuck me, this is *horrible*:

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/music-magazine/music-magazine-features/introducing-tim-burgess-840139.html

Their live set consist of songs containing lyrics such as, 'I can't hear what you're saying.' and I think the line 'I must kill you' sums up a lot, and the enthralling song 'We Don't Need Your Honesty' with the chorus shouting the word repetition over and over, then coupled with television.

They are fast learners, and even better leaders. They get it right. Guess Electricity In Our Homes truly are vintage classic in the finest sense. They are the new Post Punk renaissance

Bill A, Monday, 9 June 2008 12:00 (nine years ago) Permalink

That is puzzling in every way. Has it deliberately not been proofread?

DJ Mencap, Monday, 9 June 2008 12:05 (nine years ago) Permalink

I've never seen a published piece of writing with so many grammatical errors.

chap, Monday, 9 June 2008 12:07 (nine years ago) Permalink

Reads like a wind-up, to be honest.

Dingbod Kesterson, Monday, 9 June 2008 12:32 (nine years ago) Permalink

When I first read it I thought it must be some kind of piss-take, given the number of mistakes. I love the way that he drops in that Electricity In Our Homes will be supporting The Charlatans, and that their "Charlie Moderate" is also his "dj partner". No vested interest there, then.

Bill A, Monday, 9 June 2008 12:34 (nine years ago) Permalink

Technically, as in using languages, checking facts etc. it is useless.

The message is correct though. :)

Geir Hongro, Monday, 9 June 2008 21:48 (nine years ago) Permalink

hiring tim burgess is such an independent-y thing to do: a bit like having dom joly as columnist. there can't be many people out there who'll buy a paper because tim burgess has a slot.

banriquit, Tuesday, 10 June 2008 09:49 (nine years ago) Permalink

Haha OTM.

Tim Burgess writing in the manner of a 16 year old asked to write school report on pop music there.

Matt DC, Tuesday, 10 June 2008 10:04 (nine years ago) Permalink

I'm kind of assuming this is a wind-up, when the papers get David James or Rio Ferdinand to do a column they at least get a journalist in to actually write it. I know the Indy is on a tight budget but that would be ridiculous.

Matt DC, Tuesday, 10 June 2008 10:07 (nine years ago) Permalink

I can't imagine any 45-year-old Indy reader feeling remotely nostalgic, or feeling anything at all, about the Charlatans, Madchester's very own Swinging Blue Jeans, The.

Dingbod Kesterson, Tuesday, 10 June 2008 10:32 (nine years ago) Permalink

ten months pass...

^^^unbelievably terrible. let's challenge received wisdom with... a different kind of received wisdom! urgh fuck you

High in Openness (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 8 May 2009 18:03 (eight years ago) Permalink

Surprised you read an article in the Weekly.

Alex in SF, Friday, 8 May 2009 18:05 (eight years ago) Permalink

I don't have anything to read at the moment (a rarity, but I am poor and haven't been to any bookstores lately)

High in Openness (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 8 May 2009 18:07 (eight years ago) Permalink

Libraries are friends to the poor!

Alex in SF, Friday, 8 May 2009 18:07 (eight years ago) Permalink

You know, the big problem with it is this:

probably every other person sharing your Wi-Fi connection at the coffeeshop right now knows the lyrics to "You Shook Me All Night Long," but how many can sing along with a single song by My Morning Jacket, TV on the Radio, Joanna Newsom, Of Montreal, or any of the other best rock artists of our era?

This is like being in the 60s and going "Yeah, the Rolling Stones are good, but why arent you listening to the Fugs and the Godz and Terry Riley?

Our shitty generation is doing JUST FINE adding to the shitty classic rock canon thanks to Foo Fighters, Bush, Stone Temple Toilets, Sublime, The Chili Peppers, Incubus and 1,000 other bands that OUR shitty kids are gonna know still all the words to 25 years from now.

gui lovato (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 8 May 2009 18:27 (eight years ago) Permalink

Dude is getting his strawmen mixed up. The same people that have

dinner parties where the hosts put Heart on the stereo
have 90 shitty contempory bands they like too. Who do you think is buying all the Coldplay records?

gui lovato (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 8 May 2009 18:29 (eight years ago) Permalink

Stone Temple Toilets

you did not

triple-hater protection (J0rdan S.), Friday, 8 May 2009 18:30 (eight years ago) Permalink

i can think of a few ilxors past and present who would agree with the notion of you should kill yourself if you listen to classic rock.

pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Friday, 8 May 2009 18:32 (eight years ago) Permalink

I don't listen to the radio at all (much less classic rock radio) so its not like I took this personally or anything but the piece is just such a mess of unfounded assumptions and misdirected anger the only person it made me want to kill was the writer. Like, does he really have that much of a problem with his parents and their record collections? grow the fuck up

High in Openness (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 8 May 2009 18:35 (eight years ago) Permalink

to take one minor example, the central problem with classic rock acts still filling arenas isn't that they're classic rock, its that arena shows BY THEIR VERY NATURE suck shit. Its not like I want to see any of my favorite bands in an arena...

High in Openness (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 8 May 2009 18:36 (eight years ago) Permalink

I know this guy has been ref'd on ilx before because I went to his blog and have seen his article on fruitcake before.

kingkongvsgodzilla, Friday, 8 May 2009 18:39 (eight years ago) Permalink

article blog post

kingkongvsgodzilla, Friday, 8 May 2009 18:40 (eight years ago) Permalink

My Morning Jacket, TV on the Radio, Joanna Newsom, Of Montreal are all classic rock

tylerw, Friday, 8 May 2009 18:42 (eight years ago) Permalink

You know, the big problem with it is this:

probably every other person sharing your Wi-Fi connection at the coffeeshop right now knows the lyrics to "You Shook Me All Night Long," but how many can sing along with a single song by My Morning Jacket, TV on the Radio, Joanna Newsom, Of Montreal, or any of the other best rock artists of our era

xhuxk, Friday, 8 May 2009 18:42 (eight years ago) Permalink

Pretty sure there aren't four existing 'rock artists' he could have mentioned instead to prevent his article from being spectacularly retarded

display mane (DJ Mencap), Friday, 8 May 2009 19:03 (eight years ago) Permalink

Is the strawman here even prevalent enough to write an article about? The vast majority of people I speak to or hand with or whatever are in their 20s or 30s and I don't think any of them listen to classic rock exclusively

display mane (DJ Mencap), Friday, 8 May 2009 19:09 (eight years ago) Permalink

hand = hang

display mane (DJ Mencap), Friday, 8 May 2009 19:09 (eight years ago) Permalink

Pretty sure there aren't four existing 'rock artists' he could have mentioned instead to prevent his article from being spectacularly retarded

True enough, especially since he doesn't provide any sort of rationale as to why they are "the best" -- apart from "because I say so." And considering most of the article rests on the argument "because I say so," he comes off sounding like a petulant teenager.

giving a shit when it isn't your turn to give a shit (sarahel), Friday, 8 May 2009 19:17 (eight years ago) Permalink

this guy is a teenager, right?

tylerw, Friday, 8 May 2009 19:19 (eight years ago) Permalink

xp Shakey: Thanks for posting this ... I read the article yesterday and immediately felt that it deserved a place on this thread.

giving a shit when it isn't your turn to give a shit (sarahel), Friday, 8 May 2009 19:21 (eight years ago) Permalink

Music: White Lion, Elzhi, Black Milk, RA The Rugged Man, White Rabbits, Bill Callahan, El-P, Avril, Replacements, DJ Khaled, MC 401(k), Brother Ali, Kanye West, 50 Cent, John Maxfield, The Long Winters, Band of Horses, The Streets, Ghostface, DJ Crucial, Serengeti, MC Paul Barman, The Frozen Food Section

once he puts that purple he will become an enemy (omar little), Friday, 8 May 2009 19:21 (eight years ago) Permalink

xp omar: I think you found him. What I want to know, and one of the things that makes me dislike the SF Weekly, is why they are paying a bunch of non-local music writers, when the SF Bay Area has plenty of music writers? Is this a corporate thing? By that I mean, is this New Jersey dude and the other non-local music writers who write for the SF Weekly part of a New Times/Village Voice stable?

giving a shit when it isn't your turn to give a shit (sarahel), Friday, 8 May 2009 19:27 (eight years ago) Permalink

Each music editor in the VVM/NT chain is pretty much free to put together his/her own stable of music writers -- at least that was my experience.

QuantumNoise, Friday, 8 May 2009 19:32 (eight years ago) Permalink

"Is this a corporate thing?"

Yes.

Alex in SF, Friday, 8 May 2009 19:41 (eight years ago) Permalink

I mean in so far as I don't think that VVM/NT has a particularly loyalty to the idea of using local writers for media (or for that mannner anything else.)

Alex in SF, Friday, 8 May 2009 19:44 (eight years ago) Permalink

And in this case it looks like this dude writes for all the Weeklies. There are links to LA and OC Weekly articles on that Myspace page.

Alex in SF, Friday, 8 May 2009 19:47 (eight years ago) Permalink

xp Alex: That's what I've noticed ... he's not the only NJ/NY dude that writes for other chain papers that the Weekly has writing for them now.

giving a shit when it isn't your turn to give a shit (sarahel), Friday, 8 May 2009 19:48 (eight years ago) Permalink

yeah it's pretty horrific to think that not only have papers like the village voice, la weekly, and others in the vvm stable completely turned to shit, but they all employ the same bullshit writers.

once he puts that purple he will become an enemy (omar little), Friday, 8 May 2009 19:48 (eight years ago) Permalink

Yeah I'm not saying that they should be loyal to that idea. The problem here isn't that this guy lives in NJ. It's that the article(s) he wrote is crappy. I'm fine with getting the best writer who live wherever to write your music pieces.

Alex in SF, Friday, 8 May 2009 19:51 (eight years ago) Permalink

xp Alex: but that crappitude is stock in trade for the SF Weekly. A friend of mine used to write for them ... and he said that for articles there was a common format, as he explained it, one either writes about "This thing you thought was good? It's really bad." or "This thing you thought was evil? It actually is good."

giving a shit when it isn't your turn to give a shit (sarahel), Friday, 8 May 2009 19:53 (eight years ago) Permalink

Yeah I don't read the Weekly and basically I never have (I used to a little when Phil Sherburne used to write for them). I don't read the music section in the Guardian either though.

Alex in SF, Friday, 8 May 2009 19:56 (eight years ago) Permalink

they all employ the same bullshit writers

:-/

Ned Raggett, Friday, 8 May 2009 19:57 (eight years ago) Permalink

I give both at least cursory skims. I usually read at least one or two things in the Guardian, Kimberly Chun's column, and there's usually a show preview for someone interesting.

giving a shit when it isn't your turn to give a shit (sarahel), Friday, 8 May 2009 19:59 (eight years ago) Permalink

I think the answer to the thread's question is yes, this is the worst piece of music writing ever.

Bill Magill, Friday, 8 May 2009 20:02 (eight years ago) Permalink

well, there are diamonds in the rough, ned ; D

once he puts that purple he will become an enemy (omar little), Friday, 8 May 2009 20:04 (eight years ago) Permalink

oh come on now guys, it's bad but not that bad

mark cl, Friday, 8 May 2009 20:06 (eight years ago) Permalink

The Village Vanguard. New York City. 1961.

We was sittin’ there watchin’ the stage. Waitin’ for the man they called Coltrane to come out and do his thing. It was me and my four droogs. Them bein’ Peter, Georgio and Dim; Dim being really Dim.

‘Round an hour’d passed and the place was packed straight through to the back. I’d just dropped some dollars for ‘Trane’s Giant Steps six months back. Now was the time, this was the place. The Village Vanguard. New York City. 1961.

I was only there for the first night, see, but them cats at Impulse! just made my life complete. They put out four CDs of all that sound ‘Trane put out those nights. But you know my type, man. Can’t afford to eat, let alone spend some heavy cash on music. So I only got the essential. Live at the Village Vanguard: The Master Takes is one disc, makin’ it one-fourth the cost of the box set. And you only get the best stuff.

Man, the opening beauty of “Spiritual…” It’s like a dream I had: I floated on the River Nile, smokin’ some fresh weed, relaxin’. But I ain’t ever gonna see the Nile anyhow. This track’s as close as I come, and it’s close enough. Best of the best, though, has gotta be “India.” It’s only when you listen to a perfect old jazz tune like this that you realize how much drum-n-bass is derived from this music. ‘Trane takes it to heaven and back with some style, man. Some richness, daddy. It’s a sad thing his life was cut short by them jaws o’ death.

Shit, cat. It don’t make a difference. The man produced enough good music to last me a lifetime. This Village Vanguard thing’s just another example of the genius of Coltrane.

mark cl, Friday, 8 May 2009 20:06 (eight years ago) Permalink

easy target i know

mark cl, Friday, 8 May 2009 20:06 (eight years ago) Permalink

I give both at least cursory skims. I usually read at least one or two things in the Guardian, Kimberly Chun's column, and there's usually a show preview for someone interesting.

Guardian's definitely better, I like Chun a lot. (didn't she just get laid off tho?)

High in Openness (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 8 May 2009 20:08 (eight years ago) Permalink

xp Shakey: I saw her a couple nights ago and she was talking about an article she was working on ... but I heard that rumor somewhere, too.

giving a shit when it isn't your turn to give a shit (sarahel), Friday, 8 May 2009 20:10 (eight years ago) Permalink

This is actually an excellent article, making some very valuable and very correct points.

Geir Hongro, Friday, 8 May 2009 22:01 (eight years ago) Permalink

but Geir the Beatles are "classic rock"

High in Openness (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 8 May 2009 22:06 (eight years ago) Permalink

xp Oops I just accidently Permalinked you Geir. Sorry about that.

Alex in SF, Friday, 8 May 2009 22:07 (eight years ago) Permalink

LMFAO

gui lovato (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 8 May 2009 22:08 (eight years ago) Permalink

The same people that have dinner parties where the hosts put Heart on the stereo have 90 shitty contempory bands they like too. Who do you think is buying all the Coldplay records?

A few points: I assume there are several millions Coldplay fans who have never had any use for Heart at all; I don't know what Coldplay and Heart have in common in the first place (one was a great hard rock band, one wasn't); I've never been to a dinner party where Heart was played in my life; and though I never thought of it before, I think it might be kind of neat if somebody did play Heart at a one (especially if they put on Bebe Le Strange or Jupiters Darling, neither of which get played on classic rock radio much either, I don't think.)

Actually, if the food and company was good, they could even play Coldplay, for all I care. Hell, it's their party. They should play whatever they want.

xhuxk, Friday, 8 May 2009 22:12 (eight years ago) Permalink

Now I was speaking of the original article.

Classic rock is the canon is good. Of course.

Geir Hongro, Friday, 8 May 2009 22:15 (eight years ago) Permalink

(But nothing wrong about checking out new stuff - as long as it sounds like the old stuff)

Geir Hongro, Friday, 8 May 2009 22:16 (eight years ago) Permalink

Right, I've killed myself. Now what?

Ismael Klata, Friday, 8 May 2009 22:16 (eight years ago) Permalink

Now you get to listen to My Morning Jacket!

Alex in SF, Friday, 8 May 2009 22:17 (eight years ago) Permalink

Nothing wrong about My Morning Jacket, although Flaming Lips do roughly the same thing better :)

Geir Hongro, Friday, 8 May 2009 22:23 (eight years ago) Permalink

you'll have to pry my jethro tull records from my cold, dead hands

Domm P))) (M@tt He1ges0n), Friday, 8 May 2009 22:30 (eight years ago) Permalink

Joanna Newsom is like Jethro Tull only NOW, man.

Alex in SF, Friday, 8 May 2009 22:30 (eight years ago) Permalink

Jethro Newsom - Aquaharp

tylerw, Friday, 8 May 2009 22:31 (eight years ago) Permalink

i really hope the author can explain how all those bomb throwing radical generation rock terrorists of the 60s spent most of their time obsessing over blues and folk records recorded in the 20s and 30s

Domm P))) (M@tt He1ges0n), Friday, 8 May 2009 22:33 (eight years ago) Permalink

^^

mark cl, Friday, 8 May 2009 22:34 (eight years ago) Permalink

See, the problem I have with the original article is that he makes some stupid mistakes in spelling, grammar, and music knowledge.

'...who can quite frankly can screw themselves..." <---- no Editor, even a Uni newpaper twerp, should make such a horrific mistake.

'Greenday' <-----you fucking kidding me?

In terms of music knowledge, the guy who wrote this is obviously retarded.

the table is the table, Friday, 8 May 2009 22:35 (eight years ago) Permalink

I really hope the author can make peace with his parents ... he seems to have issues.

giving a shit when it isn't your turn to give a shit (sarahel), Friday, 8 May 2009 22:38 (eight years ago) Permalink

^^^for realz. this is the first thing I thought of too. Like, does he not realize that the entire concept of generational-warfare-via-pop-culture was developed by, um, the baby boomers?

High in Openness (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 8 May 2009 22:39 (eight years ago) Permalink

I was just envisioning some chick he was interested in flirting with his dad instead.

giving a shit when it isn't your turn to give a shit (sarahel), Friday, 8 May 2009 22:43 (eight years ago) Permalink

a new challenger?

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?sectioncode=26&storycode=406425

joe, Tuesday, 12 May 2009 17:07 (eight years ago) Permalink

was unable to read that.

FREE DOM AND ETHAN (special guest stars mark bronson), Tuesday, 12 May 2009 17:16 (eight years ago) Permalink

shredded moose morelike

sorry for british (country matters), Tuesday, 12 May 2009 17:17 (eight years ago) Permalink

At first, chords were enough: to simply hammer, as John Lennon did, a chord, a root, a seventh, a sixth - anything.

listen to some fucking charlie christian, arsehole.

languid samuel l. jackson (jim), Tuesday, 12 May 2009 17:19 (eight years ago) Permalink

hendrix as phallic, clapton as anal

call all destroyer, Tuesday, 12 May 2009 17:20 (eight years ago) Permalink

It might be noticed that I mention only English guitarists,

Ran. Screaming.

kingkongvsgodzilla, Tuesday, 12 May 2009 17:22 (eight years ago) Permalink

was going to post that hendrix-clapton line but thought it would be unfair to inflict it on anyone who hadn't already read it. An image that will haunt the rest of my days.

Stryder's on the Orme (j.o.n.a), Tuesday, 12 May 2009 17:25 (eight years ago) Permalink

"There is hardly one classic electric guitarist to have come from America. Blues, jazz, country, etc, indeed - and they have mastered the art of the Paganinistic solo in grand masters such as Steve Vai and Joe Satriani. But these are not guitarists with the right spirit, able to serve and transcend music at the same time."

No way, you did not just say that.

Bill Magill, Tuesday, 12 May 2009 17:26 (eight years ago) Permalink

lol

languid samuel l. jackson (jim), Tuesday, 12 May 2009 17:27 (eight years ago) Permalink

i like how he claims hendrix as an english guitarist just for the hell of it

call all destroyer, Tuesday, 12 May 2009 17:27 (eight years ago) Permalink

surprised to find the guy is only 36, assumed he was some nostalgic baby-boomer.

joe, Tuesday, 12 May 2009 17:32 (eight years ago) Permalink

Why is there so much music writing on the internet that's like 20 paragraph think pieces? Who is reading all of this?

Whiney G. Weingarten, Tuesday, 12 May 2009 17:32 (eight years ago) Permalink

some people think the point of not having an editor is not editing themselves?

Briney Deep Coralgarden (some dude), Tuesday, 12 May 2009 17:34 (eight years ago) Permalink

this piece was in the tls though rite? which is pretty respectable (or used to be).

FREE DOM AND ETHAN (special guest stars mark bronson), Tuesday, 12 May 2009 17:35 (eight years ago) Permalink

was responding to Whiney's question about "writing on the internet," not talking about that piece

Briney Deep Coralgarden (some dude), Tuesday, 12 May 2009 17:36 (eight years ago) Permalink

Off piste: A fortnightly series in which academics step outside their area of expertise

just sayin, Tuesday, 12 May 2009 17:36 (eight years ago) Permalink

not the tls, the times higher - used to be part of the same stable but less culture and lit-crit, more news and features about university funding, admin, jobs etc. they run a weekly column where an academic writes about a subject outside his specialty.

xpost

joe, Tuesday, 12 May 2009 17:37 (eight years ago) Permalink

It is in England that an odd mixture of pluck, determination and ignorance came to fruition between 1960 and 1970. There is no guitarist worth listening to who started playing after that time: the inauthenticity is too evident.

display mane (DJ Mencap), Tuesday, 12 May 2009 17:38 (eight years ago) Permalink

James Alexander teaches Hongroic theory at Bilkent University, Ankara, Turkey.

display mane (DJ Mencap), Tuesday, 12 May 2009 17:39 (eight years ago) Permalink

I vaguely recall posting something like this before but is this kind of application of confidence broadly thought of as a positive thing? Like the idea of writing the two sentences I quoted above when I couldn't possibly have the knowledge to back them up just seems, to me, like such a weird and alien thing to do

display mane (DJ Mencap), Tuesday, 12 May 2009 17:43 (eight years ago) Permalink

I vaguely recall posting something like this before but is this kind of application of confidence broadly thought of as a positive thing?

i think it is by editors. as i've gotten older and read more, i find myself reading papers/magazines and just knowing they're fronting half the time. but i think that appeals to editors and maybe readers. same way tanya gold gets published i guess.

FREE DOM AND ETHAN (special guest stars mark bronson), Tuesday, 12 May 2009 17:46 (eight years ago) Permalink

This dude and the guy who wrote the anti-classic rock piece should have to live together. It could be one of those abject generational comedies.

giving a shit when it isn't your turn to give a shit (sarahel), Tuesday, 12 May 2009 18:16 (eight years ago) Permalink

But the tutored geniuses of later decades, who imitated these faster models, achieved the ultimate Aufhebung of the electric guitar, a sort of apotheosis by way of auto-da-fe whereby the blistering solo became so effortless that it was turned into a form of mechanical blandness, mere empty virtuosity.

this sentence is where i started to assume the whole thing was a prank.

would you ask tom petty that? (tipsy mothra), Tuesday, 12 May 2009 18:21 (eight years ago) Permalink

Because of the turn of phrase? What he's saying is... not something I'd get behind much but not all that insane or challopy either

display mane (DJ Mencap), Tuesday, 12 May 2009 18:37 (eight years ago) Permalink

compared to almost every other paragraph he's written

display mane (DJ Mencap), Tuesday, 12 May 2009 18:37 (eight years ago) Permalink

not the sentiment, just because of "the ultimate Aufhebung of the electric guitar" etc.

would you ask tom petty that? (tipsy mothra), Tuesday, 12 May 2009 19:26 (eight years ago) Permalink

"Why is there so much music writing on the internet that's like 20 paragraph think pieces? Who is reading all of this?"

sorry, wait, what, where?

thomp, Tuesday, 12 May 2009 20:41 (eight years ago) Permalink

two months pass...

NME capsule review finds new depth to plummet to: http://www.nme.com/reviews/sam-isaac/10733

Sickamous (Scik Mouthy), Monday, 10 August 2009 11:17 (eight years ago) Permalink

I thought it was pretty lol

Tim Krul ringmaster (DJ Mencap), Monday, 10 August 2009 11:35 (eight years ago) Permalink

For anyone who is interested, Sam Isaac's album, 'Bears' is a refreshing, honest, album of melodic indie-pop, with songs written with conviction and passion

What a disaster for fans of refreshing, honest, melodic indie-pop, with songs written with conviction and passion

Tim Krul ringmaster (DJ Mencap), Monday, 10 August 2009 11:36 (eight years ago) Permalink

^^^LOL

"I had become Passantino"

cockles (country matters), Monday, 10 August 2009 11:39 (eight years ago) Permalink

that was fantastic.

the shane bourne identity (haitch), Monday, 10 August 2009 11:58 (eight years ago) Permalink

four weeks pass...

His line of “what you think I rap for/to push a fuckin’ Rav4” was both hilarious and truthful

lmao

http://www.popmatters.com/pm/review/111082-jay-z-the-blueprint-3/

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, 8 September 2009 22:08 (eight years ago) Permalink

wouldn't call this the worst ever but lots of unintentional lols

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, 8 September 2009 22:09 (eight years ago) Permalink

pedantic maybe, but:

"His debut, Reasonable Doubt, was easily one of the 1990s’ best albums, hip-hop or otherwise, and it featured some of the best producers and rappers of our time."

rappers plural, as in besides Biggie? either dude is being generous to Foxy or we've found the world's only Sauce Money stan.

the delighted flute-clinking dinner party audience in soto's head (some dude), Wednesday, 9 September 2009 01:46 (eight years ago) Permalink

hahaha

call all destroyer, Wednesday, 9 September 2009 01:47 (eight years ago) Permalink

dying

k3vin k., Wednesday, 9 September 2009 03:33 (eight years ago) Permalink

http://thedailycrazy.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/orville1.jpg

history mayne, Wednesday, 9 September 2009 15:28 (eight years ago) Permalink

these people should be quarantined from society

Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 9 September 2009 15:33 (eight years ago) Permalink

In 1992, Springsteen seemed irrelevant because he was outflanked by both rhythm and noise, by PE on the left and Nirvana on the white.

kingkongvsgodzilla, Wednesday, 9 September 2009 15:34 (eight years ago) Permalink

taken as a whole that Bruce piece is over the top but there are a couple paragraph that on their own are pretty killer.

some dude, Wednesday, 9 September 2009 15:41 (eight years ago) Permalink

not Keith's best piece, but also FAR from the worst ever. (whatever happened to Keith anyhow?)

all you need is love vs. money (that's what i want) (Ioannis), Wednesday, 9 September 2009 15:47 (eight years ago) Permalink

OK, what the hell's wrong with this review? I agree with almost all of it.

My life is butthurt so badly (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 9 September 2009 15:51 (eight years ago) Permalink

bit overcooked i guess, but i like it! the 'every sentence must have some pow pow pow trickery' style of writing has kind of waned hasn't it.

goole, Wednesday, 9 September 2009 15:52 (eight years ago) Permalink

I just thought it was petty and smug. Plus, sprinkling song titles and lyrics into a review is a pet peeve of mine. This review always comes to mind when I think of a particular kind of criticism that leaves me more annoyed than informed. Maybe this is personal and not Harris's fault, but it reminds me of the whole era of sarcasm and naivite that led folks to say that Bush and Gore were the same, and a Simpsons and Seinfeld world where if you're not making a joke you are a joke.

Squash weather (Eazy), Wednesday, 9 September 2009 16:04 (eight years ago) Permalink

And if gospel music and 9/11 and Springsteen aren't sacred cows, than I assume Keith Harris doesn't see himself as one either. I've liked other reviews of his, as well as his show recommendations in City PAges.

Squash weather (Eazy), Wednesday, 9 September 2009 16:06 (eight years ago) Permalink

The first graf is right-on and far from smug.

My life is butthurt so badly (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 9 September 2009 16:07 (eight years ago) Permalink

September 11 affected us all in different ways, and the way it affected Bruce Springsteen was this—as the second tower toppled from the sky, he was plunged into a world of eternal vagueness.

That's not smug?

Squash weather (Eazy), Wednesday, 9 September 2009 16:09 (eight years ago) Permalink

no

goole, Wednesday, 9 September 2009 16:10 (eight years ago) Permalink

No.

My life is butthurt so badly (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 9 September 2009 16:11 (eight years ago) Permalink

it's funny! probably the funniest thing you could say about 9/11 and bruce springsteen

goole, Wednesday, 9 September 2009 16:11 (eight years ago) Permalink

If anything, he implies that Springsteen's the smug one for responding to 9-11 with an album's worth of platitudes.

My life is butthurt so badly (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 9 September 2009 16:12 (eight years ago) Permalink

i don't disagree w/ Eazy's general drift, but there are much much worse examples and practitioners of that style imo

radio k3ller (some dude), Wednesday, 9 September 2009 16:13 (eight years ago) Permalink

I mean, gospel music is almost always more symbolic and allegorical than concrete and specific. "We Shall Overcome" works on specific occasions, but it doesn't document the surface of those occasions.

Definitely there are worse examples out there. This one pissed me off more than any other, though no more than he seemed to feel about The Rising.

Squash weather (Eazy), Wednesday, 9 September 2009 16:21 (eight years ago) Permalink

And I'm no big fan of unmelodic Tom Joad and Rising Springsteen songs, though I think "The Rising" itself is about as good a Springsteen song as there is. Telling a song from the point of view from a fireman in the first tower, but telling it in a way that someone could sing it and make it their own, and telling it in a way that doesn't permanently ground it in 2002, is quite a fear.

Squash weather (Eazy), Wednesday, 9 September 2009 16:24 (eight years ago) Permalink

I'm afraid of it too.

My life is butthurt so badly (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 9 September 2009 16:24 (eight years ago) Permalink

A feat, a feat!

Squash weather (Eazy), Wednesday, 9 September 2009 16:25 (eight years ago) Permalink

in that review keith seems to just KNOW things that he can't possibly know, i.e. the post-9/11 Springsteen is vague because, like the Democratic party, he doesn't want to alienate anyone. really?

The Rising argues, implicitly but unmistakably, that in a time of crisis we should shrug off our individual concerns in the interest of "healing." Sound familiar?

That's not to equate the heartfelt pieties of one of rock's most decent millionaires with the demands for unanimity launched by those gutting the Fourth Amendment.

except actually it is. cake = had and eaten! and nice job getting the "millionaire" reference in there dude

Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 9 September 2009 16:27 (eight years ago) Permalink

FEAR THE BOSS! FEAR HIM, I SAY!

xp

all you need is love vs. money (that's what i want) (Ioannis), Wednesday, 9 September 2009 16:29 (eight years ago) Permalink

also his first instinct that "if 9/11 hadn't existed bruce would have had to invent it" is a snide aphorism was the right one; it's a risible thing to say

Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 9 September 2009 16:29 (eight years ago) Permalink

it's also funny as hell.

all you need is love vs. money (that's what i want) (Ioannis), Wednesday, 9 September 2009 16:31 (eight years ago) Permalink

Sometimes critics use albums as an excuse to write zingers – wow!

My life is butthurt so badly (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 9 September 2009 16:32 (eight years ago) Permalink

And sometimes non-critics use critics to encapsulate the shortcoming of a particular era -- no harm done to anyone.

Squash weather (Eazy), Wednesday, 9 September 2009 16:33 (eight years ago) Permalink

(Not critics in general -- specific reviews.)

Squash weather (Eazy), Wednesday, 9 September 2009 16:34 (eight years ago) Permalink

suggesting that Bruce Springsteen actually welcomes national tragedy because it will boost his own "relevance" is funny as hell??

Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 9 September 2009 16:38 (eight years ago) Permalink

http://culturekitchen.com/files/images/web_Lee_Greenwood.jpg

goole, Wednesday, 9 September 2009 16:39 (eight years ago) Permalink

i just deleted like four bruce live albums off my ipod last night, i think i'm getting defensive because of my guilt - sorry bruce

Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 9 September 2009 16:44 (eight years ago) Permalink

suggesting that Bruce Springsteen actually welcomes national tragedy because it will boost his own "relevance" is funny as hell??

no, it isn't. but suggesting that "If there hadn't been a September 11, Bruce Springsteen would have had to invent one." is, imho.

all you need is love vs. money (that's what i want) (Ioannis), Wednesday, 9 September 2009 17:23 (eight years ago) Permalink

c'mon RI-I-I-I-I-I-I-SE UP. RI-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-SE UP.

vulva eyes (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 9 September 2009 17:28 (eight years ago) Permalink

just you wait til i fetch my Cain, you.

all you need is love vs. money (that's what i want) (Ioannis), Wednesday, 9 September 2009 17:32 (eight years ago) Permalink

what would we do without music critics--how would anyone ever understand music

Monsieur Queueue (Mr. Que), Wednesday, 9 September 2009 17:35 (eight years ago) Permalink

by abusing copious amounts of illegal substances, natch.

all you need is love vs. money (that's what i want) (Ioannis), Wednesday, 9 September 2009 17:43 (eight years ago) Permalink

haha @ the rapreviews.com writer eventually outing himself as an animal collective stan and comparing merriweather post pavilion to veckatimest

k3vin k., Thursday, 10 September 2009 02:18 (eight years ago) Permalink

uhhhh i first read that as "rape reviews" and then as "ra previews" pls let's pretend this says nothing about me except that i'm about four deep.

call all destroyer, Thursday, 10 September 2009 02:24 (eight years ago) Permalink

I like that they transcribe the guy's t-shirt as "Party F******g Sober!" and then run a photo of the whole fucking thing right below that.

pshrbrn, Wednesday, 23 September 2009 14:09 (eight years ago) Permalink

SleeveNotes: Tim Jonze:

It's not every day you get to compare Sugababes to the band who wrote Nazi Punks Fuck Off. But this week the pop trio followed in the footsteps of extreme metal terrorists Napalm Death by soldiering on, despite the fact that, since Keisha Buchanan's departure on Monday, their lineup now has zero original members.

OK, what's wrong with the above?

Mark G, Wednesday, 23 September 2009 16:01 (eight years ago) Permalink

four weeks pass...

Article on Creed in Slate today. Reads utterly incoherent to me and I'm not sure that it's not a joke, but it seems sincere enough I guess.

wmlynch, Thursday, 22 October 2009 00:02 (eight years ago) Permalink

I'd hardly say its incoherent save for

"Higher" might turn out to be the nu-grunge "Don't Stop Believing": dismissed by cognoscenti on arrival as bludgeoning and gauche but destined for rehabilitation down the road as a triumphant slab of ersatz inspirationalism.

ersatz?

inigo_montoya.jpg

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 22 October 2009 00:14 (eight years ago) Permalink

Oh just go for the clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 22 October 2009 00:15 (eight years ago) Permalink

That article was fine. It was of a piece with Slate's baffling obsession with contrarianism and revisionism. It was a decent read.

Bill Magill, Thursday, 22 October 2009 14:18 (eight years ago) Permalink

It was a great read, except it would have read EXACTLY the same if it was on The Onion.

& other try hard shitfests (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 22 October 2009 14:32 (eight years ago) Permalink

derivative blowhards with a self-righteous Christian agenda

i like how he describes in 8 words why no one likes creed and then spends 5 paragraphs defending creed.

call all destroyer, Thursday, 22 October 2009 14:35 (eight years ago) Permalink

I'm a sucker for a thoughtfully contrarian essay, so this worked.

lihaperäpukamat (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 22 October 2009 14:42 (eight years ago) Permalink

Then you remembered the sex tape with Kid Rock and came to your senses.

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 22 October 2009 14:44 (eight years ago) Permalink

I can share Brett Michaels' own tape with you.

lihaperäpukamat (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 22 October 2009 14:50 (eight years ago) Permalink

Why is Creed "good" and "underrated"?

1. They write "first-rate schlock-rock."
2. "In his lyrics, Stapp is a well-meaning, Bible-fluent doofus, easy to chuckle at"
3. Stapp's stage presence is "obnoxiously anachronistic"
4. "Higher" is "a triumphant slab of ersatz inspirationalism"
5. "Tremonti was a brutally effective guitarist"

It's like he couldn't even take his own argument seriously. His defense is pretty backhanded.

wmlynch, Thursday, 22 October 2009 17:51 (eight years ago) Permalink

the bar is pretty low for good music writing tbh

access flap (omar little), Thursday, 22 October 2009 17:53 (eight years ago) Permalink

Why is Creed good? Cuz they write shit songs with bad lyrics and their frontman is irritating. THAT'S WHY!

wmlynch, Thursday, 22 October 2009 17:55 (eight years ago) Permalink

Wait, it's that they're ersatz good.

wmlynch, Thursday, 22 October 2009 17:55 (eight years ago) Permalink

the slate thing is just a space-filler, but its hardly terrible. or terribly written anyway. dunno if it was worth the effort...

scott seward, Thursday, 22 October 2009 17:56 (eight years ago) Permalink

what IS worth the effort these days? where's the good writing thread? i haven't read anything good in a dog's age. somebody must have written something good this year about music.

scott seward, Thursday, 22 October 2009 17:57 (eight years ago) Permalink

you don't need space-filler on the internet. it's not like a newspaper or magazine where you have to fill space; you choose how much of the theoretically infinite space of the internet you want to use.

congratulations (n/a), Thursday, 22 October 2009 17:58 (eight years ago) Permalink

but even internet newsmags have, um, theoretical space limits and such, no? they have sections. they need to fill a section. they need product, basically. same as a regular magazine.

scott seward, Thursday, 22 October 2009 18:02 (eight years ago) Permalink

that's probably because old people run it

nice email (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Thursday, 22 October 2009 18:05 (eight years ago) Permalink

it's the internet just throw up whatever

nice email (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Thursday, 22 October 2009 18:05 (eight years ago) Permalink

in case anyone was wondering why they ran that article, its because it gets forwarded around the internet and posted on message boards like this, and then people go to the site and some of them click on the ads, and then slate gets money, and pays its writers

Bobby Wo (max), Thursday, 22 October 2009 18:07 (eight years ago) Permalink

Thanks for explaining the internet Max, you are a hero.

& other try hard shitfests (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 22 October 2009 18:08 (eight years ago) Permalink

it's the internet just throw up, whatever (xxp)

Fetchboy, Thursday, 22 October 2009 18:08 (eight years ago) Permalink

np jon seemed like there was some confusion on this thread vis-a-vis the article, and why slate would publish something that wasnt particularly insightful but was contrarian enough that people seem to want to tell everyone about it

Bobby Wo (max), Thursday, 22 October 2009 18:16 (eight years ago) Permalink

it's about as contrarian as a cannned ham.

scott seward, Thursday, 22 October 2009 18:17 (eight years ago) Permalink

cannnnnned ham

scott seward, Thursday, 22 October 2009 18:17 (eight years ago) Permalink

"utterly incoherent to me and I'm not sure that it's not a joke, but it seems sincere enough I guess."

Ha! sums up my feelings re: Creed and maybe Rammstein and Rush. Maybe ICP and Burial, too.
What groups are like that for you guys?

Philip Nunez, Thursday, 22 October 2009 18:25 (eight years ago) Permalink

To compare Creed and ICP to Rush is sacrilege.

Bill Magill, Thursday, 22 October 2009 19:27 (eight years ago) Permalink

Bill Magill OTM. Faygo & Seminars>>>>>>>>Ayn Rand.

Fetchboy, Thursday, 22 October 2009 19:40 (eight years ago) Permalink

which awful alt-weekly cover story essay on jay-z is worse??

http://www.citypaper.com/music/story.asp?id=19159
http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/old-bull/Content?oid=2473786

i got nothin (deej), Friday, 23 October 2009 03:23 (eight years ago) Permalink

jk the stranger one is ugh but the cp one is http://www.soulstrut.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/lvl.gif

i got nothin (deej), Friday, 23 October 2009 03:25 (eight years ago) Permalink

He is Gen-Why's Crack Cobain, in their search for a new musical Nirvana.

man i fuckin hate wordplay

call all destroyer, Friday, 23 October 2009 03:26 (eight years ago) Permalink

it's about as contrarian as a cannned ham.

What about scrapple?

_Rudipherous_, Friday, 23 October 2009 03:27 (eight years ago) Permalink

city paper joint is the worst piece of rap writing i've read this year

everybody loves am0n (J0rdan S.), Friday, 23 October 2009 03:34 (eight years ago) Permalink

RIP al shipley circa 2008 getting space to rightfully shit on 'american gangster'

everybody loves am0n (J0rdan S.), Friday, 23 October 2009 03:35 (eight years ago) Permalink

He may be getting old, but this album is a warning flare to the world that he could do this shit forever.

like, i don't even know where to start

everybody loves am0n (J0rdan S.), Friday, 23 October 2009 03:40 (eight years ago) Permalink

haha i still get space i just wouldn't use it to shit on nu-jay more than once

some dude, Friday, 23 October 2009 03:47 (eight years ago) Permalink

"Jay may be the Magna Carter (though they aren't related, both men share similar surnames) but Weezy smells succession"

similar?

suggest friend (hmmmm), Friday, 23 October 2009 08:15 (eight years ago) Permalink

He is "literally" carrying hip hop on his back.

Dorian (Dorianlynskey), Friday, 23 October 2009 08:33 (eight years ago) Permalink

"And we are in the age of Obamica now; if a black man can become president of the United States, then a wicked jump shot or slinging crack rocks—as the greatest rapper of all time, the late Christopher Wallace once suggested—is not the only way out of the hood. The looming shadow of the big baller/shot caller has not disappeared completely, but it's getting smaller."

This paragraph is literally burning my eyeballs. My head is literally going to explode. Figuratively speaking, this is a terribly written piece.

dabug, Friday, 23 October 2009 16:56 (eight years ago) Permalink

btw that goof jonah weiner who wrote that article on Creed has a 'conceptual' rap group:
http://www.myspace.com/spiderfangz

i got nothin (deej), Saturday, 24 October 2009 03:35 (eight years ago) Permalink

haha the way nick sylvester constantly posted about 'spiderfang' on his blog i thought it was just some bullshit he made up himself

wein blockas (some dude), Saturday, 24 October 2009 03:53 (eight years ago) Permalink

Ghostface Killer (Tony Starks)

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Saturday, 24 October 2009 04:00 (eight years ago) Permalink

ohhh, he means Tony Starks

i got nothin (deej), Saturday, 24 October 2009 04:14 (eight years ago) Permalink

honestly the predictable contrarianism of that creed article is so obnoxious to me for some reason ... like yes, we get it, all music isnt that bad when its not on the radio all the time

i just hate the idea that dude was like, "oooh creed catalogue torrent ... maybe ill make a hundred bucks in slate cash off a half assed review of this that SHOCKS MUSIC FAN SENSIBILITIES"

i got nothin (deej), Saturday, 24 October 2009 04:21 (eight years ago) Permalink

So hold on, is Weiner now Slate's official pop critic?

http://www.slate.com/?id=3944&qp=43219

Jeez, that's f'n depressing...

uninspired girls rejoice!!! (Hoot Smalley), Thursday, 5 November 2009 19:20 (eight years ago) Permalink

they were going to hire me and give me free reign to write about Wilco every week, but the deal fell through at the last minute.

kshighway1, Thursday, 5 November 2009 19:26 (eight years ago) Permalink

they went for second best.

kshighway1, Thursday, 5 November 2009 19:27 (eight years ago) Permalink

If I ever got a chance to interview Jay, I

so sad that this sentence occurs in a cover story on the guy

banned, on the run (s1ocki), Thursday, 5 November 2009 20:22 (eight years ago) Permalink

isn't a covery story

the goondock saints (some dude), Thursday, 5 November 2009 20:27 (eight years ago) Permalink

er cover story

the goondock saints (some dude), Thursday, 5 November 2009 20:27 (eight years ago) Permalink

no it's not very cover-y at all

haha xp

banned, on the run (s1ocki), Thursday, 5 November 2009 20:27 (eight years ago) Permalink

ya i assumed it was from deej's "which awful alt-weekly cover story essay on jay-z is worse??" but i guess you'd know better

banned, on the run (s1ocki), Thursday, 5 November 2009 20:28 (eight years ago) Permalink

Is It OK To Like Chris Brown's New Single?
What to do when a bad person makes a good song.

Creed Is Good
Scott Stapp's nu-grunge foursome was seriously underrated.

Can Miley Cyrus Save Health Care Reform?
The pop starlet's new single is great, goofy—and bipartisan!—fun.

The Last Sellouts
Pearl Jam's brilliant new single, brought to you by Target.

Over the Hump
The Black Eyed Peas' inescapable, incoherent, irresistible new song.

Was Limp Bizkit Really That Bad?
Why the most hated band ever deserves another listen.

Ladies! I Can't Hear You! No, Really, I Can't Hear You!
Where did all the female rappers go?

Lil Wayne and the Afronaut Invasion
Why have so many black musicians been obsessed with outer space?

The Cure for the Common Coldplay
The band's surprising new album.

jØrdån (omar little), Thursday, 5 November 2009 20:28 (eight years ago) Permalink

Impressive corpus.

kshighway1, Thursday, 5 November 2009 20:30 (eight years ago) Permalink

You missed this one:

Unbearable Whiteness
That queasy feeling you get when watching a Wes Anderson movie.

o. nate, Thursday, 5 November 2009 20:30 (eight years ago) Permalink

Slate's new challops column.

kshighway1, Thursday, 5 November 2009 20:30 (eight years ago) Permalink

: /

jØrdån (omar little), Thursday, 5 November 2009 20:31 (eight years ago) Permalink

My new Slate column: "Received Contrarianism"

uninspired girls rejoice!!! (Hoot Smalley), Thursday, 5 November 2009 20:34 (eight years ago) Permalink

Is the rest of Slate any good? I rarely read it.

kshighway1, Thursday, 5 November 2009 20:38 (eight years ago) Permalink

Varies wildly from writer to writer, but I'd say overall it's gotten worse over the years.

uninspired girls rejoice!!! (Hoot Smalley), Thursday, 5 November 2009 20:41 (eight years ago) Permalink

holy shit, that city paper story takes the fucking cake - easily the worst thing I've read this year

Brio, Thursday, 5 November 2009 20:58 (eight years ago) Permalink

Craziest thing about the CP story is that it's not by some dumb young kid:

http://www.nathanielturner.com/baltimoreoratorbarrymichaelcooper.htm

uninspired girls rejoice!!! (Hoot Smalley), Thursday, 5 November 2009 21:04 (eight years ago) Permalink

:O

banned, on the run (s1ocki), Thursday, 5 November 2009 21:22 (eight years ago) Permalink

Totally thought that was written by a college kid.

Brio, Thursday, 5 November 2009 21:32 (eight years ago) Permalink

Every single one of this guy's article titles outdoes most of the #slatepitches responses.

http://twitter.com/#search?q=%23slatepitches

dabug, Friday, 6 November 2009 00:02 (eight years ago) Permalink

Yeah, you can't out-Slate Slate...

uninspired girls rejoice!!! (Hoot Smalley), Friday, 6 November 2009 00:11 (eight years ago) Permalink

from city pages in mpls, steely dan concert review:

http://blogs.citypages.com/gimmenoise/2009/11/steely_dan_at_t.php

The looming shadow of the big baller/shot caller (M@tt He1ges0n), Monday, 9 November 2009 20:30 (eight years ago) Permalink

I imagined myself in a wood-paneled basement rec room party with Chicago and the Pat Metheny Group.
would go to that party.

tylerw, Monday, 9 November 2009 20:33 (eight years ago) Permalink

City Pages, RIP.

uninspired girls rejoice!!! (Hoot Smalley), Monday, 9 November 2009 20:35 (eight years ago) Permalink

I don't think that's a badly written piece at all

I forgot my mantra (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 9 November 2009 20:47 (eight years ago) Permalink

lol i thought of a slatepitch this morning... what was it

banned, on the run (s1ocki), Monday, 9 November 2009 20:51 (eight years ago) Permalink

ugh, that Dan piece. being a middle aged loner with no taste and a clear disdain for people more successful than you is NAGL. it would help if she at least learned to write a serviceable punchline

k3vin k., Monday, 9 November 2009 21:08 (eight years ago) Permalink

i just hate that smug failure to try to even engage with something, just recycling lazy "zings" about something you clearly don't even really understand

The looming shadow of the big baller/shot caller (M@tt He1ges0n), Monday, 9 November 2009 21:11 (eight years ago) Permalink

yup

k3vin k., Monday, 9 November 2009 21:12 (eight years ago) Permalink

oh I don't agree with her at all and think her succession of lazy zings are very revealing about her own very funny and fairly arbitrary insecurities but I don't think its badly written per se. its kinda funny.

I forgot my mantra (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 9 November 2009 21:13 (eight years ago) Permalink

she would make a perfect subject for a Becker/Fagan song lolz

I forgot my mantra (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 9 November 2009 21:13 (eight years ago) Permalink

not really--how fucking old are these jokes at this point? cocaine! wine coolers! parents are old! lol!

call all destroyer, Monday, 9 November 2009 21:16 (eight years ago) Permalink

there are (perhaps unintentional?) lolz at the fact that she stresses how HER parents wouldn't be here, just YOUR parents. whoah, judgmental much...

I forgot my mantra (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 9 November 2009 21:18 (eight years ago) Permalink

also hey who has issues about being 30yo and unmarried and clinging to juvenile aesthetic positions derived from received wisdom

I forgot my mantra (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 9 November 2009 21:19 (eight years ago) Permalink

but mostly she just hates nerds!

Brio, Monday, 9 November 2009 21:24 (eight years ago) Permalink

having a downtown condo and drinking chardonnay sounds tite imo

call all destroyer, Monday, 9 November 2009 21:27 (eight years ago) Permalink

Starbucks wasn't hiring, huh?

if I don't see more dissent, I'm going to have to check myself in (Matos W.K.), Monday, 9 November 2009 21:29 (eight years ago) Permalink

the best thing about the steely dan thing was when i clicked to the second page and there were pictures of john d. and donald fagen both singing with their heads held high. wanna hear that duet!

scott seward, Monday, 9 November 2009 21:29 (eight years ago) Permalink

oh wait its on the first page too.

scott seward, Monday, 9 November 2009 21:30 (eight years ago) Permalink

pwned

a Barbie-like nub where he provates should be (HI DERE), Monday, 9 November 2009 21:35 (eight years ago) Permalink

matos, come home.

The looming shadow of the big baller/shot caller (M@tt He1ges0n), Monday, 9 November 2009 21:53 (eight years ago) Permalink

oh I don't agree with her at all and think her succession of lazy zings are very revealing about her own very funny and fairly arbitrary insecurities but I don't think its badly written per se. its kinda funny.

― I forgot my mantra (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, November 9, 2009 4:13 PM (50 minutes ago)

ok but the entire glue of her piece is supposed to be this wit she brings - if we agree she can't write a punchline and goes for only the laziest of zings, what's of value? was there any insight you gained?

k3vin k., Monday, 9 November 2009 22:06 (eight years ago) Permalink

so tempted to RAMPAGE THOSE COMMENTS, but, why

goole, Monday, 9 November 2009 22:10 (eight years ago) Permalink

City Pages, RIP.

― uninspired girls rejoice!!! (Hoot Smalley), Monday, November 9, 2009 2:35 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

^^ this ain't no shit btw

goole, Monday, 9 November 2009 22:10 (eight years ago) Permalink

goole do you even do stuff for them anymore?

The looming shadow of the big baller/shot caller (M@tt He1ges0n), Monday, 9 November 2009 22:12 (eight years ago) Permalink

the insight i gained is she needs an editor: "I have to say it's a pretty brilliant concept to feature entire album on tour." if you're gonna do a disreview your writing should at least be clean, especially at your zing-a-sentence ending there

kamerad, Monday, 9 November 2009 22:12 (eight years ago) Permalink

Sorry, but my mom tells better jokes and has more insight than this critic.

I yanked that sucker hard, and work it did. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 9 November 2009 22:13 (eight years ago) Permalink

was there any insight you gained?

main insight is that the writer is neurotic. I def. didn't learn anything about the music haha

I forgot my mantra (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 9 November 2009 22:15 (eight years ago) Permalink

What is the ridiculous strawman that Steely Dan fans think that Dan music is somehow the apotheosis of jazz fused with rock?

I will say that while I thought her writing was horrible, the gig she described sounded great!

a Barbie-like nub where he provates should be (HI DERE), Monday, 9 November 2009 22:15 (eight years ago) Permalink

I see wine coolers at the Publix every visit and always wonder who the hell buys them in 2009.

I yanked that sucker hard, and work it did. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 9 November 2009 22:17 (eight years ago) Permalink

lol @ shakey's halfhearted backhanded defense of this awful piece

heart goin ham (deej), Monday, 9 November 2009 22:17 (eight years ago) Permalink

jk i havent even read the piece

heart goin ham (deej), Monday, 9 November 2009 22:17 (eight years ago) Permalink

oh, right: Becker-Fagen groupies buy wine coolers.

I yanked that sucker hard, and work it did. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 9 November 2009 22:17 (eight years ago) Permalink

is this piece online only? i know the alt weekly in my city is under huge pressure to just churn out content constantly for the web these days, so "editing" is kinda a thing of the past. Gotta get those click throughs y'all!
also, i don't think I've ever had a wine cooler. are they tasty? are they like the steely dan of beverages?

tylerw, Monday, 9 November 2009 22:18 (eight years ago) Permalink

It's not that the piece is really AWFUL as much as it's just really, really stupid; you get a sense that the author is WAY more of a douchebag poser twit than the people she's criticizing for SHOCK HORROR having fun at a Steely Dan concert

Wine coolers are awesome until you turn 19

a Barbie-like nub where he provates should be (HI DERE), Monday, 9 November 2009 22:19 (eight years ago) Permalink

Like life.

I yanked that sucker hard, and work it did. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 9 November 2009 22:19 (eight years ago) Permalink

:'(

tylerw, Monday, 9 November 2009 22:20 (eight years ago) Permalink

goole do you even do stuff for them anymore?

― The looming shadow of the big baller/shot caller (M@tt He1ges0n), Monday, November 9, 2009 4:12 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark

naw my relationship was entirely w/ s4r4h 4sk4ri. they canned her for reasons that are probably unrelated to running the kind of shit i wrote, heh. the new crowd there is, from what i know, wholly imported from reveille, but i don't really pay any attention anymore.

goole, Monday, 9 November 2009 22:20 (eight years ago) Permalink

y'all are sadly OTM re wine coolers and life

TGAAPQ (Mr. Que), Monday, 9 November 2009 22:21 (eight years ago) Permalink

so tempted to drop the "john d. hearts the dan" bomb in comments there...

goole, Monday, 9 November 2009 22:21 (eight years ago) Permalink

It's not that the piece is really AWFUL as much as it's just really, really stupid; you get a sense that the author is WAY more of a douchebag poser twit than the people she's criticizing for SHOCK HORROR having fun at a Steely Dan concert

this pretty much says it all. I don't really think its poorly written - not as poorly written as, say, that Nick Sylvester hipster runoff piece . There's stuff published that is borderline incomprehensible AND offensive from start to finish, but this piece is not like that.

I forgot my mantra (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 9 November 2009 22:25 (eight years ago) Permalink

other things I learned about the writer from this article - she approves of weed smoking and enjoys it, but feels guilty and self-conscious about it

I forgot my mantra (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 9 November 2009 22:26 (eight years ago) Permalink

That's how she feels about her parents.

I yanked that sucker hard, and work it did. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 9 November 2009 22:28 (eight years ago) Permalink

hey dan i don't think the [ital] tags work the same way over there ;)

goole, Monday, 9 November 2009 22:28 (eight years ago) Permalink

oh dammit, this website has ruined me

a Barbie-like nub where he provates should be (HI DERE), Monday, 9 November 2009 22:28 (eight years ago) Permalink

Are you drinking wine coolers?

I yanked that sucker hard, and work it did. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 9 November 2009 22:29 (eight years ago) Permalink

Do I look 19?????? (plz say yes)

a Barbie-like nub where he provates should be (HI DERE), Monday, 9 November 2009 22:30 (eight years ago) Permalink

other things I learned about the writer from this article - she approves of weed smoking and enjoys it, but feels guilty and self-conscious about it

― I forgot my mantra (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, November 9, 2009 5:26 PM (23 seconds ago)

probably because she's seventeen and her mom might be reading

k3vin k., Monday, 9 November 2009 22:32 (eight years ago) Permalink

ok fuck it I'm going in

goole, Monday, 9 November 2009 22:33 (eight years ago) Permalink

i think i wrote a review or maybe two for that paper once? but i can't remember who asked me to. it wasn't matos.

scott seward, Monday, 9 November 2009 22:33 (eight years ago) Permalink

melissa maerz?

goole, Monday, 9 November 2009 22:36 (eight years ago) Permalink

dylan hicks? i think that's who it was.

i wrote something for someone named melissa in seattle once.

scott seward, Monday, 9 November 2009 22:39 (eight years ago) Permalink

lol who is 'tasty lixx'

heart goin ham (deej), Monday, 9 November 2009 22:41 (eight years ago) Permalink

:D

goole, Monday, 9 November 2009 22:42 (eight years ago) Permalink

i think i got the purdie shuffle detail wrong but w/e

goole, Monday, 9 November 2009 22:42 (eight years ago) Permalink

dasty hixx

I yanked that sucker hard, and work it did. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 9 November 2009 22:46 (eight years ago) Permalink

Donald Fagen says:

As a founding member of The Dan, I say though square we may be, squared is what we are. Our brand of jazz-rock-fusion-core is crucial to the 31-59 age demographic. Every year thousands of new danfans give in to the jazzgasms we provide. If you dont like jazzgasms then we dont want you at our squarefair. Simple as that.

!

jØrdån (omar little), Monday, 9 November 2009 22:55 (eight years ago) Permalink

i'm just now entertaining the possibility that that is the ACTUAL donald fagen

goole, Monday, 9 November 2009 22:56 (eight years ago) Permalink

lol

a Barbie-like nub where he provates should be (HI DERE), Monday, 9 November 2009 22:56 (eight years ago) Permalink

<3

jazzgasms (Mr. Que), Monday, 9 November 2009 22:57 (eight years ago) Permalink

hope so

heart goin ham (deej), Monday, 9 November 2009 23:03 (eight years ago) Permalink

haha i'm 90 percent sure i know who "donald fagan" is

The looming shadow of the big baller/shot caller (M@tt He1ges0n), Monday, 9 November 2009 23:30 (eight years ago) Permalink

lololol

squarefair (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 9 November 2009 23:33 (eight years ago) Permalink

Donald Fagen says:

This is the kind of internet posturing that we, Steely Dan, appreciate the most of our fans. This dedicated sense of giving a shit proves that we, Steely Dan, matter in this come and go world we call Earth. In 1972 Walter Becker and I wrote a song called Do It Again and let me tell you Steely Dan is indeed Doing It Again.

Donald Fagen
Steely Dan
Posted On: Monday, Nov. 9 2009 @ 10:59PM

like moses, the townfolk like the red sea (stevie), Tuesday, 10 November 2009 09:32 (eight years ago) Permalink

Damn, the comments on that Dan review are merciless and well-deserved.

Brio, Tuesday, 10 November 2009 18:18 (eight years ago) Permalink

http://www.chartrigger.blogspot.com/

This whole site.

ô_o (Nicole), Tuesday, 10 November 2009 18:20 (eight years ago) Permalink

Was waiting for that to appear.

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 10 November 2009 18:22 (eight years ago) Permalink

"Meanwhile, Taylor Swift has set a Billboard Hot 100 record by debuting five songs from her Platinum Edition re-release of Fearless in the Top 30, led by "Jump Then Fall" at #10. Interrupt that, Kanye West."

uninspired girls rejoice!!! (Hoot Smalley), Tuesday, 10 November 2009 18:23 (eight years ago) Permalink

Wow, Kanye got told.

ô_o (Nicole), Tuesday, 10 November 2009 18:25 (eight years ago) Permalink

That reads like copy from "The 10" on E!

a Barbie-like nub where he provates should be (HI DERE), Tuesday, 10 November 2009 18:29 (eight years ago) Permalink

http://www.chartrigger.blogspot.com/

This whole site.

that deserves to be called "writing" as much as the words on the back of a packet of toilet cleaner

lex pretend, Tuesday, 10 November 2009 18:31 (eight years ago) Permalink

Little can top Duff McKagan at the Seattle Weekly.

http://www.dickdestiny.com/blog/2009/09/real-jim-anchower-to-understand-this.html

Now before one sez consider the source, think about mental gymnastic practiced every week by editors and copy editors allowing him into print. That's actually worse than the finished product.

Gorge, Tuesday, 10 November 2009 20:15 (eight years ago) Permalink

two weeks pass...

in the grand scheme of things, this is not the worst article ever. sportswriters writing about music is almost always gold though

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/296438-top-4-thanksgiving-halftime-shows-that-made-the-gravy-go-bad/page/2

we be emi robin' (k3vin k.), Thursday, 26 November 2009 22:24 (eight years ago) Permalink

paul shirley on espn.com is great for this too

we be emi robin' (k3vin k.), Thursday, 26 November 2009 22:29 (eight years ago) Permalink

Come back, Masonic Boom, all is forgiven

unclelukethic (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 3 December 2009 02:41 (eight years ago) Permalink

I'm gonna go donate $250 to the Willie Mae Rock Camp for Girls just for accidentally giving that article traffic.

unclelukethic (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 3 December 2009 02:43 (eight years ago) Permalink

was hoping the byline on that would be Ted Mosby

the 6 SBillion dollar man (some dude), Thursday, 3 December 2009 02:43 (eight years ago) Permalink

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/columnists/2009/12/10/not-frightfully-a-muse-d-after-being-caught-out-by-s-club-7-91466-25358932/

“This is it!” I thought. “Music that roars with ancient beauty in the electricity age!” Was this a new work by a Montreal band with a knack for avant garde orchestral exploration?

imo better blues (DJ Mencap), Saturday, 12 December 2009 16:56 (eight years ago) Permalink

two months pass...

in the grand scheme of things, this is not the worst article ever. sportswriters writing about music is almost always gold though

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/296438-top-4-thanksgiving-halftime-shows-that-made-the-gravy-go-bad/page/2

― we be emi robin' (k3vin k.), Thursday, November 26, 2009 5:24 PM Bookmark

Sportswriting about music is like ice dancing about architecture?

pithfork (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 23 February 2010 12:55 (seven years ago) Permalink

Pfunkboy I think that article's pretty great!

Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 23 February 2010 13:07 (seven years ago) Permalink

I would have nixed the "Ain't it?" but possibly not much more

Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 23 February 2010 13:07 (seven years ago) Permalink

He is the worst writer in the world today. He's routinely mocked on the rolling metal threads (and most other metal boards)

Pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Tuesday, 23 February 2010 13:10 (seven years ago) Permalink

i dont know shit about metal but the guy seems like a p good writer

max, Tuesday, 23 February 2010 13:12 (seven years ago) Permalink

He's used to write for Stylus: http://thestylusdecade.com/apocalypsesky.html

ksh, Tuesday, 23 February 2010 13:15 (seven years ago) Permalink

*He

ksh, Tuesday, 23 February 2010 13:15 (seven years ago) Permalink

Oh, the guy who has that belief that all Mastodon fans are like, secret Widespread Panic fans or something.

kingkongvsgodzilla, Tuesday, 23 February 2010 13:20 (seven years ago) Permalink

He also used to write for Dusted.

PANZER DIVISION DEVO (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Tuesday, 23 February 2010 13:21 (seven years ago) Permalink

I love Stew's style (he reminds me of dave q), I just don't know wtf he's writing about 75% of the time. It's probably better that way.

No, YOU'RE a disgusting savage (Scik Mouthy), Tuesday, 23 February 2010 13:22 (seven years ago) Permalink

I read something by him occasionally and it just reminds me why I try not to read music criticism at all.

PANZER DIVISION DEVO (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Tuesday, 23 February 2010 13:23 (seven years ago) Permalink

I dont think he knows what he's on about either
xp

Pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Tuesday, 23 February 2010 13:25 (seven years ago) Permalink

Could never work out how to pronounce this guy's surname

MPx4A, Tuesday, 23 February 2010 13:26 (seven years ago) Permalink

I say it as vote-lin in my head.

No, YOU'RE a disgusting savage (Scik Mouthy), Tuesday, 23 February 2010 13:28 (seven years ago) Permalink

It's pronounced as asshole.

Pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Tuesday, 23 February 2010 13:28 (seven years ago) Permalink

Yeah Bertie Vogts the football manager is pronounced Bertie Votes so I go from there

Originoo Golf Clappaz (DJ Mencap), Tuesday, 23 February 2010 13:29 (seven years ago) Permalink

pfunk: is your primary problem with him that he's a bad writer, or just that he slags off things you like?

m the g, Tuesday, 23 February 2010 13:30 (seven years ago) Permalink

I assumed there was more of a "vert" thing because of the oe

MPx4A, Tuesday, 23 February 2010 13:31 (seven years ago) Permalink

I liked his Stylus Decade thing and dude is evidently a very adept writer but his would-be challoping is really tiresome to read

Originoo Golf Clappaz (DJ Mencap), Tuesday, 23 February 2010 13:32 (seven years ago) Permalink

Yeah I'm gonna say it Vertlin

MPx4A, Tuesday, 23 February 2010 13:32 (seven years ago) Permalink

If I ever have cause to say it out loud for the first time

MPx4A, Tuesday, 23 February 2010 13:32 (seven years ago) Permalink

i dont know shit about metal but the guy seems like a p good writer

― max, Tuesday, February 23, 2010 1:12 PM (18 minutes ago) Bookmark

^^

sharter the unstoppable ilx machine (history mayne), Tuesday, 23 February 2010 13:33 (seven years ago) Permalink

idk if he's challoping coz he's talking about metal

sharter the unstoppable ilx machine (history mayne), Tuesday, 23 February 2010 13:34 (seven years ago) Permalink

He's good for the hit counts I daresay

Originoo Golf Clappaz (DJ Mencap), Tuesday, 23 February 2010 13:35 (seven years ago) Permalink

"I read something by him occasionally and it just reminds me why I try not to read music criticism at all."

you are better off, overall. you should still read my column in decibel every month though. it's short. won't take you long.

scott seward, Tuesday, 23 February 2010 13:36 (seven years ago) Permalink

m the g i dislike his writing even when he writes about stuff i don't know.

Pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Tuesday, 23 February 2010 13:38 (seven years ago) Permalink

http://www.stylusmagazine.com/articles/pop_playground/disconnecting-the-dots-getting-critical-with-music-critics-and-their-readers.htm

think I remember people getting really fucking angry about this but the comments don't load any more

MPx4A, Tuesday, 23 February 2010 13:39 (seven years ago) Permalink

I can't help but picture this guy typing the last word of the review, then sitting back in his chair, crossing his arms, and letting a little that'll-show-'em smirk creep across his face.

This kind of writing is so transparent and depressing to me.

Shannon Whirry and the Bad Brains, Tuesday, 23 February 2010 13:50 (seven years ago) Permalink

what's brent d. up to these days? i liked that guy.

scott seward, Tuesday, 23 February 2010 13:56 (seven years ago) Permalink

Name looks Dutch to me, which would make the "oe" like an English "oo" sound (I think?) and the "g" an unpleasant throaty hairball noise, but assuming the guy is American and not Dutch all bets are probably off

(I quite liked that review but didn't enjoy his Stylus thing at all thanks to his tic of accusing some new swathe of music listeners of clearly being Republicans every other paragraph; never read anything else by the guy, but I find Mark Prindle funny so y'know I have some time for splenetic self-amused challop-bursts in music criticism)

falling while carrying an owl (a passing spacecadet), Tuesday, 23 February 2010 13:56 (seven years ago) Permalink

the guy has got a 'character' and i can see disliking/disagreeing with the 'character' but he writes the 'character' p effectively

max, Tuesday, 23 February 2010 13:58 (seven years ago) Permalink

To summarise, then, this is probably not the worst piece of music writing ever

MPx4A, Tuesday, 23 February 2010 14:00 (seven years ago) Permalink

yeah guys it's not that he's a bad writer (so no this should not be here) but for those that know nothing about metal his critical acumen is p. much straight bullshit.

call all destroyer, Tuesday, 23 February 2010 14:08 (seven years ago) Permalink

Herman are you sure your beef with this guy isn't that you disagree with his opinion, not that his writing is bad?

Lee Dorrian Gray (J0hn D.), Tuesday, 23 February 2010 14:11 (seven years ago) Permalink

i'll be honest, high on fire kinda bore me too. but i haven't heard the new one. not really going out of my way to hear the new one though. they are way up there on my list of bands that - on paper - i should love but don't.

scott seward, Tuesday, 23 February 2010 14:14 (seven years ago) Permalink

would-be challoping

how does this work? even in the absence of biters, a challop is a challop right?

nakhchivan, Tuesday, 23 February 2010 14:15 (seven years ago) Permalink

i'll be honest, high on fire kinda bore me too.

I haven't heard Snakes for the Divine but you just took yrself off my xmas list buddy

Lee Dorrian Gray (J0hn D.), Tuesday, 23 February 2010 14:17 (seven years ago) Permalink

just being honest. wasn't a big sleep fan either except for dopesmoker/jerusalem. i like OM okay though.

scott seward, Tuesday, 23 February 2010 14:20 (seven years ago) Permalink

I think Songs take far too long to get their bearing and then flail about listlessly, content with grand declarations of emotional quagmire received in wholly disconnected and unfounded ways – sorta like a dog flipping through a Time magazine photo special on the Haiti earthquake devastation. is bad writing.

Shannon Whirry and the Bad Brains, Tuesday, 23 February 2010 14:21 (seven years ago) Permalink

really digging this right now though:

http://shop.no-colours-records.de/cover/10566bazookatoxicwarriorscd1320091028.jpg

scott seward, Tuesday, 23 February 2010 14:23 (seven years ago) Permalink

looks like neo-thrash

I am completely over neo-thrash

Lee Dorrian Gray (J0hn D.), Tuesday, 23 February 2010 14:24 (seven years ago) Permalink

it's 9:23 a.m. and i'm listening to bazooka. how about you?

recorded at ASSLOVER studio in Taiwan. everyone should record there. i think its actually just a big hole in the ground wired for sound.

scott seward, Tuesday, 23 February 2010 14:25 (seven years ago) Permalink

I think Songs take far too long to get their bearing and then flail about listlessly, content with grand declarations of emotional quagmire received in wholly disconnected and unfounded ways – sorta like a dog flipping through a Time magazine photo special on the Haiti earthquake devastation. is bad writing.

Bad writing how? That is very evocative of flailing listlessly to make an emotional impact but being too disconnected from the source material to be effective; it's likely that the anger generated by reading that glib comment is akin to the frustration this dude feels when he listens to this music.

Jack the Dude-Kicker (HI DERE), Tuesday, 23 February 2010 14:25 (seven years ago) Permalink

it is nu-thrash but it is really good taiwanese ASSLOVING nu-thrash. the riffs are great.

scott seward, Tuesday, 23 February 2010 14:25 (seven years ago) Permalink

recorded at ASSLOVER studio in Taiwan. everyone should record there.

omg brb, goin 2 Taiwan

Lee Dorrian Gray (J0hn D.), Tuesday, 23 February 2010 14:27 (seven years ago) Permalink

i know, right?

scott seward, Tuesday, 23 February 2010 14:30 (seven years ago) Permalink

still think this line from the dude's other review posted on the metal thread would make a great ilx username for someone:

"a pulsing vibe on the clit of aesthetic eureka"

scott seward, Tuesday, 23 February 2010 14:31 (seven years ago) Permalink

Q: You really went for a new sound on this record - what do you attribute that to?
A: I have to say, it's Asslover. Asslover really left its mark on this record, no doubt about it.

Lee Dorrian Gray (J0hn D.), Tuesday, 23 February 2010 14:33 (seven years ago) Permalink

words of wisdom on the back of the bazooka album:

fuck to:
posers

scott seward, Tuesday, 23 February 2010 14:33 (seven years ago) Permalink

well one way in which it's bad writing is that a dog flipping through a magazine is a wholly incongruous image

call all destroyer, Tuesday, 23 February 2010 14:33 (seven years ago) Permalink

this thread took a bizarre turn

Pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Tuesday, 23 February 2010 14:34 (seven years ago) Permalink

seriously though, i've had it up to here with the nu-thrash revolution as much as anyone, but this album rocks hard. very satisfying.

scott seward, Tuesday, 23 February 2010 14:35 (seven years ago) Permalink

xps yeah I am trying hard here to parse the dog simile and it's just not happening

Originoo Golf Clappaz (DJ Mencap), Tuesday, 23 February 2010 14:37 (seven years ago) Permalink

well one way in which it's bad writing is that a dog flipping through a magazine is a wholly incongruous image

but that incongruity plays right back to the disconnect he's talking about

Jack the Dude-Kicker (HI DERE), Tuesday, 23 February 2010 14:37 (seven years ago) Permalink

I spent like two hours the other day looking for somewhere that sold dogs playing poker on a button-up shirt in a size below XL - it's as if they only expect fatteys to wear them

Originoo Golf Clappaz (DJ Mencap), Tuesday, 23 February 2010 14:38 (seven years ago) Permalink

i dunno abt that; a dog watching images of earthquake devastation on tv at least makes some kind of sense--with his construction i get pretty stuck on how the dog is flipping through the magazine without thumbs.

call all destroyer, Tuesday, 23 February 2010 14:39 (seven years ago) Permalink

otoh if he meant the dogs that also play poker all is forgiven; i understand completely

call all destroyer, Tuesday, 23 February 2010 14:39 (seven years ago) Permalink

The idea that the reader needs a backup example of 'disconnect' is also slightly off, to my mind

Originoo Golf Clappaz (DJ Mencap), Tuesday, 23 February 2010 14:41 (seven years ago) Permalink

well one way in which it's bad writing is that a dog flipping through a magazine is a wholly incongruous image

― call all destroyer, Tuesday, February 23, 2010 2:33 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark

god forbid, an incongruous image

sharter the unstoppable ilx machine (history mayne), Tuesday, 23 February 2010 14:41 (seven years ago) Permalink

sorry incongruous might not be the right word--i mean it doesn't make any goddamn sense

call all destroyer, Tuesday, 23 February 2010 14:42 (seven years ago) Permalink

The idea that the reader needs a backup example of 'disconnect' is also slightly off, to my mind

isn't that construction like the commonest of common writing tropes (ie, allegory)?

Jack the Dude-Kicker (HI DERE), Tuesday, 23 February 2010 14:43 (seven years ago) Permalink

i like the dog line! wish i had thought of it.

scott seward, Tuesday, 23 February 2010 14:45 (seven years ago) Permalink

can dogs flip pages with paw-static?

nakhchivan, Tuesday, 23 February 2010 14:45 (seven years ago) Permalink

dog was using a kindle, obviously. paw pad.

scott seward, Tuesday, 23 February 2010 14:48 (seven years ago) Permalink

dogs actually do have opposable thumbs fyi; they just don't want to tip their hands to their human masters

Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ (dyao), Tuesday, 23 February 2010 14:56 (seven years ago) Permalink

or should I say, tip their PAWS???

Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ (dyao), Tuesday, 23 February 2010 14:57 (seven years ago) Permalink

see if dogs were just holding out on us w/r/t the fact that their paws work really well for grasping, i'd expect them to also be affected by images of earthquake devastation

call all destroyer, Tuesday, 23 February 2010 14:58 (seven years ago) Permalink

So the question is whether dogs love Chinese neo-thrash. As we already know they are asslovers.

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 23 February 2010 14:58 (seven years ago) Permalink

*reads last post*
*decides not to investigate thread further*

_Rudipherous_, Tuesday, 23 February 2010 15:01 (seven years ago) Permalink

it's time for the nard-dog to take mags into his own paws

you live in a space battle homo cave (sic), Tuesday, 23 February 2010 15:09 (seven years ago) Permalink

see if dogs were just holding out on us w/r/t the fact that their paws work really well for grasping, i'd expect them to also be affected by images of earthquake devastation

"Why oh why didn't I warn them like the dog in that one movie I saw"

Originoo Golf Clappaz (DJ Mencap), Tuesday, 23 February 2010 15:15 (seven years ago) Permalink

fuck to:
posers

ladies and gentlemen, my newest tattoo

Lee Dorrian Gray (J0hn D.), Tuesday, 23 February 2010 15:20 (seven years ago) Permalink

they do great work in taiwan:

http://theartoftattoo.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/taiwan-tattoo.jpg

scott seward, Tuesday, 23 February 2010 15:25 (seven years ago) Permalink

hey J0hn, what other tattoos do you have?

ha! (Drugs A. Money), Tuesday, 23 February 2010 18:25 (seven years ago) Permalink

Pretty sure this is one of them:
http://s1.hubimg.com/u/1434032_f260.jpg

Sean Carruthers, Tuesday, 23 February 2010 18:36 (seven years ago) Permalink

he's got lady gaga making out with admiral akbar on his lower back.

known fact.

strongohulkingtonsghost, Tuesday, 23 February 2010 19:24 (seven years ago) Permalink

he's got lady gaga making out with admiral akbar on his lower back.

we're talking about tattoos, though

Jack the Dude-Kicker (HI DERE), Tuesday, 23 February 2010 19:27 (seven years ago) Permalink

Hey, how come only Courtney is special enough to get a portrait

Originoo Golf Clappaz (DJ Mencap), Tuesday, 23 February 2010 19:45 (seven years ago) Permalink

dude, that's madonna.

scott seward, Tuesday, 23 February 2010 20:06 (seven years ago) Permalink

my face is actually a tattoo, my actual face is a smooth reflective surface

Lee Dorrian Gray (J0hn D.), Tuesday, 23 February 2010 20:32 (seven years ago) Permalink

I like how if he's got his shirt on all you can see is a big shitty metallic 'the' on the back of his neck

Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 23 February 2010 23:24 (seven years ago) Permalink

someone turn that pic into THE HOUSE OF PAIN POLL

!aNiMeGaLaXy (Future_Perfect), Tuesday, 23 February 2010 23:31 (seven years ago) Permalink

does that say Randy Boads?

Pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Tuesday, 23 February 2010 23:56 (seven years ago) Permalink

lol i think it's randy roads which is still so so wrong but i like randy boads better

call all destroyer, Tuesday, 23 February 2010 23:57 (seven years ago) Permalink

It's definitely not one big R to cover both names because noway is that an 'h'

Pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 00:37 (seven years ago) Permalink

no i think it's another R but the tail hooks in so it looks like a B from that angle

call all destroyer, Wednesday, 24 February 2010 00:40 (seven years ago) Permalink

I think he took the door from a stall my junior school boy's bathroom into the tattoo parlour and just said, "Gimme all of it, except put Randy Boads where that cock and balls drawing is."

Brio, Wednesday, 24 February 2010 00:55 (seven years ago) Permalink

Also, can anyone make out the 3 band names under TESLA and above IRON MAIDEN?

Brio, Wednesday, 24 February 2010 00:59 (seven years ago) Permalink

Savatage, TUFF and not sure of the other

Pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 01:01 (seven years ago) Permalink

Heavens Rage maybe?

Pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 01:02 (seven years ago) Permalink

looks like HEAVES KIDS

Brio, Wednesday, 24 February 2010 01:02 (seven years ago) Permalink

Heaven's Rage

freebird manjunya (zvookster), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 01:03 (seven years ago) Permalink

GiS Tuff btw. Had lots of fun laughing at them in kerrang 20 years ago

Pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 01:05 (seven years ago) Permalink

Really tough looking hardmen

Pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 01:06 (seven years ago) Permalink

http://www.sleazeroxx.com/bands/tuff/tuff1.jpg

Pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 01:06 (seven years ago) Permalink

Tuft

freebird manjunya (zvookster), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 01:07 (seven years ago) Permalink

The album title referred to the clap, I assume.

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 24 February 2010 01:09 (seven years ago) Permalink

someone turn that pic into THE HOUSE OF PAIN POLL

Not that whoever did those tattoos had the steadiest hand, from the looks of it, but I could swear that says "The House of Hair", which is almost hilarious.

Sean Carruthers, Wednesday, 24 February 2010 01:12 (seven years ago) Permalink

The House Of Hair Metal.

Pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 01:13 (seven years ago) Permalink

Also, I like dude's foresight to put Guns 'n' Roses right near his asscrack.

Sean Carruthers, Wednesday, 24 February 2010 01:16 (seven years ago) Permalink

Is The House of Pain his name for his back? He's pointing out how awesomely tuff he was to have endured all the PAIN of tattooing to become a human jean jacket, right? Or did he really get into Jump Around after his hair metal days?

Brio, Wednesday, 24 February 2010 01:18 (seven years ago) Permalink

Or was their a metal The House of Pain before the hip hop House Of Pain?

Brio, Wednesday, 24 February 2010 01:19 (seven years ago) Permalink

it's house of hair, ffs

HIDEREggerian Philosophy (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 01:27 (seven years ago) Permalink

we need a poll to decide if its pain or hair

Pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 01:28 (seven years ago) Permalink

http://houseofhaironline.com/

Pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 01:32 (seven years ago) Permalink

if it's House of Hair, he's 23 and lives in Williamsburg and interns at Vice

Brio, Wednesday, 24 February 2010 01:37 (seven years ago) Permalink

was their a metal The House of Pain before the hip hop House Of Pain?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1ntsBXdK88

xhuxk, Wednesday, 24 February 2010 01:44 (seven years ago) Permalink

It is HOUSE OF HAIR i think!

Brio, Wednesday, 24 February 2010 02:48 (seven years ago) Permalink

Definitely says hair
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a373/Ami4203/randyrhodesspelledwrongtattoo.jpg

Pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 02:54 (seven years ago) Permalink

So here's what I could make out:

The House Of Hair

LEFT SIDE
Judas Priest
Warrant
Accept
Ratt
(logo unclear)
AC/DC
Skid Row
Dokken
White Lion
Tora Tora
Poison
Jackyl
Twisted Sister
Kiss
W.A.S.P.
Dangerous Toys
Def Leppard
Dio
Scorpions
Britney Fox

RIGHT SIDE
Whitesnake
Motley Crüe
Firehouse
Tesla
Heaven's Rage
Tuff
Savatage
Iron Maiden
(logo unclear)
Black Sabbath
The Cult
Randy Roads (sic)
Megadeth
L.A. Guns
Testament
Quiet Riot
Ozzy Osbourne
Bullet Boys
Metallica
Great White
Guns 'N' Roses
(logo unclear)

I can't tell the two nearest his pits, not the one on the bottom right that appears to start "co". Sadly, I think I've heard at least one album by each of these bands.

EZ Snappin, Wednesday, 24 February 2010 03:06 (seven years ago) Permalink

I think the last one is Cinderella.

PANZER DIVISION DEVO (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 03:12 (seven years ago) Permalink

if House of Hair ever runs into Eddie Van Halen at the beach, he's gonna have some explaining to do

Brio, Wednesday, 24 February 2010 03:20 (seven years ago) Permalink

the bulletboys were the biggest doughnut pumpers on the planet...

Ballistic, Wednesday, 24 February 2010 03:23 (seven years ago) Permalink

xp I was assuming 'house of pain' was referring to the song of the same name by van halen, who are seriously conspicuous by their absence.

maybe his whole chest is covered in a ham-fisted facsimile of the 'fair warning' cover.

m the g, Wednesday, 24 February 2010 09:24 (seven years ago) Permalink

christ almighty I thought you guys would know your Ozzy Tribute album cover better:

http://www.classicrockmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/randy-rhoads-tribute.jpg

Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 24 February 2010 09:57 (seven years ago) Permalink

the one on his back does not look like an 'H'

Pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 22:39 (seven years ago) Permalink

xpost from other thread, not really so much bad writing but uninformed:

LOL-review of Immolation's Unholy Cult from the normally reliable AllMusic:

Immolation sounds like an opening band.

Had no idea "opening band" was a sound. Are there "openingbandcore" bands too?

If you go to a death metal show and endure three to five bands, Immolation might be the second or third band on the bill.

Wtf. This is ridic. The band had been around 20 years, and headlined several tours, both European and USA when this album came out -- in 1999, they headlined a show I attended. They're HEADLINING DEATHFEST 2010 NOW! The writer makes them sound like some mediocre struggling up and coming act that are lucky to have a record deal, rather than someone who has been on Roadrunner and Metal Blade! Not to mention what obscene amounts of money people were paying for "Dawn of Posession" on ebay after it went OOP.

Also, note the word sardonic use of the word "endure" as if watching death metal is a chore - furthering my belief that he isn't even a fan of the genre.

They've toured with some heavy hitters like Cannibal Corpse and Six Feet Under, but on their fifth album, Unholy Cult, they do nothing to raise themselves higher on the death metal totem pole.

This is a matter of opinion, but this is one of Immolation's more solid efforts, and it is not 'generic' by any means as the writer implies. Other than a few nods to Incantation (mostly the 'squeals'), Immolation have their own exotic sound that can easily be placed, and this album definitely 'differentiated' themselves from the pack, which is why it wound up on so many people's best of lists that year.

Ross Dolan's vocals are fine, but are not any more monstrous than your average death metal growler.

Lol. Whatever.

Musically, Immolation's songs have a sort of flat, relentless feel to them

Isn't being 'relentless' the point of a genre called "death metal"?

and, like Slayer, the leads seem tacked on in the middle of a song for no particular reason.

This is a far reaching comparison, not to mention that it isn't true. And if you were going to make that comparison, why focus on solely Slayer, since 'needless solos" are a staple of the genre.

The cover art for Unholy Cult is scary, but the music inside could be a little more evil.

Lol did an 11 year old write that last sentence for a book report?

Ballistic, Wednesday, 24 February 2010 23:34 (seven years ago) Permalink

two months pass...

Bill Chenevert of Philadelphia Weekly, you are fucking awful. Reproduced below is his capsule review for Mike Patton's Mondo Cane:

Sounds Like: The Faith No More alum sure can use his voice box. Here he sings mostly in Spanish and with a touch of kitsch, but totally authentic.

Free Association: His Eureka, Calif. roots really show here, rocking a chulo vibe.

For Fans Of: Mexico, camp, horns, Zappa, Mr. Bungle.

Not bothering to listen to the album is one thing- you have constraints on your time, I understand- but for fuck's sake, if you're going to fake it at least read a goddamn press release first or something.

a black white asian pine ghost who is fake (Telephone thing), Monday, 10 May 2010 01:30 (seven years ago) Permalink

Thanks for the new screen name!

Mexico, camp, horns, Zappa, Mr. Bungle (Matos W.K.), Monday, 10 May 2010 01:58 (seven years ago) Permalink

I haven't heard the album yet, so I'm not sure what is inaccurate about that. Does he not actually sing in Spanish? No horns?

he's always been a bit of an anti-climb Max (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 10 May 2010 02:08 (seven years ago) Permalink

The Faith No More alum sure can use his voice box.

^ great point

ksh, Monday, 10 May 2010 02:09 (seven years ago) Permalink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GOnu_mU1wU

ksh, Monday, 10 May 2010 02:10 (seven years ago) Permalink

Pretty sure it's all Italian pop songs

congratulations (n/a), Monday, 10 May 2010 02:19 (seven years ago) Permalink

no wai

hills like white people (Hurting 2), Monday, 10 May 2010 03:03 (seven years ago) Permalink

xpost to Matos- you have no idea how tempted I was to change mine to "rocking a chulo vibe." Thankfully, cooler heads prevailed

a black white asian pine ghost who is fake (Telephone thing), Monday, 10 May 2010 03:16 (seven years ago) Permalink

Pretty sure it's all Italian pop songs

So it is, and, yeah, then this is incredibly lazy journalism.

he's always been a bit of an anti-climb Max (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 10 May 2010 03:20 (seven years ago) Permalink

lol, it's called fucking MONDO CANE, and here is the cover:

http://www.culturebully.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/mike-patton-mondo-cane-cd-cover.jpg

hills like white people (Hurting 2), Monday, 10 May 2010 03:48 (seven years ago) Permalink

that's a dope cover

J0rdan S., Monday, 10 May 2010 03:50 (seven years ago) Permalink

agreed

hills like white people (Hurting 2), Monday, 10 May 2010 03:54 (seven years ago) Permalink

I had only heard the name of the album before now! Knew nothing about it, other than it was coming out.

he's always been a bit of an anti-climb Max (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 10 May 2010 03:55 (seven years ago) Permalink

I mean forgetting about whether the guy read a press release, what kind of cretin lives in a major east coast city, thinks "Il Cielo In Una Stanza" and "L'Uomo Che Non Sapeva Amare" are Spanish, and fancies himself a writer of any kind?

hills like white people (Hurting 2), Monday, 10 May 2010 04:00 (seven years ago) Permalink

to be fair, the cover pointing directly at italy and highlighting the country in all white could be confusing if you thought italy was spain.

women are a bunch of dudes (tipsy mothra), Monday, 10 May 2010 04:01 (seven years ago) Permalink

Or baja california.

hills like white people (Hurting 2), Monday, 10 May 2010 04:02 (seven years ago) Permalink

that mondo cane soundtrack album has a spectacular cover.

by another name (amateurist), Monday, 10 May 2010 10:19 (seven years ago) Permalink

Yes. Yes it is. Capt. Obvious graces with a stunning revelation.

ImprovSpirit, Monday, 10 May 2010 12:50 (seven years ago) Permalink

hahahah that review is hilarious, someone should write in about that

sir gaga (s1ocki), Monday, 10 May 2010 12:53 (seven years ago) Permalink

one year passes...

this 9-year-old essay (by pioneering internet poet/narcissist/literary critic Dan Schneider) about how Jewel and Alanis Morrissette are better lyricists than Joni Mitchell and Patti Smith has long held a special place in my heart as one of the most irritating pieces of writing I've ever read:

OK- pop quiz: you are reading this essay in 2027. What do these names mean to you? Brandy, Pink, Shakira, Blu Cantrell, Nelly Furtado, Faith Evans, Aaliyah. If you guessed millennial names of types of liquor- WRONG! These are names of some of the hottest soul/black music pop babes of 2002. All of them are sexy & severe lookers, although little talent could be ascribed to them. Most are critically panned. Round 2: How about these names? Christina Aguilera, Mandy Moore, Britney Spears, Willa Ford, Jessica Simpson. If your 1st thought was ‘porno stars’ you are not that far off. These are the cute white versions of the aforementioned- all blond, all as talentless (or more so than their dusky counterparts), & all under 21 at the start of their careers. In order this is what they are noted for: CA’s the most talented but anorexic; MM’s cute & sweet; BS’s the biggest star & a virgin (chuckle); WF’s a dumb slut, & (for emphasis) a slut; & JS’s also a virgin who wishes she were BS. To be fair, JS is actually a very good- & healthy-looking babe & the only one who projects a non-binge & purge appearance- whether she or the others have talent- well…. In truth neither group is likely to be recalled in a quarter century.

Already, some of the hottest female stars from the 1990s have sunk slowly out of sight. Where have Sheryl Crow, Jennifer Trynin, Natalie Merchant, Tracy Bonham, Joan Osbourne, Lisa Loeb, Gwen Stefani, Chantal Kreviazuk, Courtney Love, Sinéad O’Connor, Fiona Apple, Jennifer Paige, Björk, Tori Amos, Ani DiFranco, Michelle Branch, Natalie Imbruglia, Shawn Colvin, or that Lilith Queen Sarah McLachlan been lately? (Not to mention crossover country/pop divas Shania Twain & Faith Hill?) Chances are none of these names will mean much to you either- in 2027, especially. Only FA might survive- but as a jazz singer. But there are 2 oddly named female pop stars from the 1990s that are my bet to last- artistically & namewise- to 2027 & beyond. They are the Canadian brunet bombshell Alanis Morissette & the Alaskan blond burbler Jewel Kilcher.

Before I get to demolishing the myth of the superior & ‘more relevant’ lyrics of the older duo, let me state- there are things I like about PS & JM- & their music. It simply is not superior (to a discerning ear) to anything AM or JK have achieved at this stage in their careers- not to mention the music of a # of the other 90s pop babes mentioned earlier. In fact, the younger duo’s songs are the equal or superior to the older duo’s- both at similar stages of their careers & overall. Another caveat- I will analyze just the song lyrics (I am an expert with words)- I’ve not the desire nor will too argue the more nebulous & almost totally subjective debate over excellence of the music- or not.

Music critics are notoriously bad- rivaling even poetry critics in their uselessness- although, music- really- could do without critics far more than poetry. Poetry’s critics suck ass to an Academic & Outsider elite who represent a very marginalized core. Music critics have almost ZERO effect on honorifics, & even less on sales. Perhaps the only arts where criticism has a relevance is the visual arts- both painting, & especially film- which (surprise, surprise) is the easiest (for its accessibility) of the arts to criticize. But music- people like what they like & don’t give a damn that the critics stroke themselves over the awful alternadronings of an Ani DiFranco or Björk. Even the lay ear knows bad when it hears it- in fact, most music critics are so out of touch with the masses that they cannot face the fact that the reason most ‘alternative’ music acts do not get airplay (even admitting that various forms of payola still exist) nor become million-sellers, is that their music plain old sucks! Despite how the critics rave about it!

. Over & again, I maintain that all of the so-called excellence & ‘Golden Age’ of female musicianship of the 60s is merely the predictable product of a generational need to justify its place in history. Just as Tom Brokaw’s Greatest Generation of WW2 MUST BE greater than the slaggards from the 60s Free Love Generation, so does that generation stake its claim by overinflating its (especially female) musicians’ relevance & excellence vis-à-vis the 90s-00s generation of songstresses. This is due to the relative paucity of feminine influence on rock-n-roll (& pop) music in general, no doubt.

there are so many things to hate about this guy's writing, from his seedy objectification of popstars ("Jessica Simpson is actually a very good- & healthy-looking babe & the only one who projects a non-binge & purge appearance"...blech) in a work that purports to be scholarly and objective, to the hypocrisy of railing against the worship of baby boomers while failing to take new artists seriously if they don't pander to baby boomer tastes or pass an imaginary test of time (Fiona Apple as a jazz singer in 2027? prescient!), to his beef with strawman "PC elitists", to his treatment of "female musicians" as a separate breed fit only to be compared to other female musicians, to his snide blanket statements about other music critics, to his use of initials in place of the musicians' actual names, to his insistence on the primacy of lyrical analysis over musical analysis and his failure to realize that as a poetry critic he isn't likely to be an expert at either. even when he says something level-headed (he has a point — though it's hardly an original one — about the pervasiveness of elder worship) he generally crawls up his own ass within a few sentences. but really, the whole thing just has to be read in its 8,700-word, initial-packed glory to be appreciated for the classic badness that it is.

gtforia estfufan (unregistered), Tuesday, 7 June 2011 21:46 (six years ago) Permalink

oops, link here:

http://www.cosmoetica.com/B41-DES20.htm

gtforia estfufan (unregistered), Tuesday, 7 June 2011 21:46 (six years ago) Permalink

"their dusky counterparts"

goole, Tuesday, 7 June 2011 21:49 (six years ago) Permalink

Regardless of quality AM, doubtless, has the most powerful voice in the quartet. So much so that it may be worth comparing her to black pop divas/screechers Whitney Houston & Mariah Carey, rather than the 3 others.

"black pop diva/screecher Mariah Carey"

gtforia estfufan (unregistered), Tuesday, 7 June 2011 21:51 (six years ago) Permalink

lolling that the current household names out of that list are Pink, Xtina, Britney and Shakira

ppl still know Jewel and Alanis but they are not really musical vanguards anymore

JSimp still being around but not as a musician is also lol

had Jewel released "Fat Boy" by the time he wrote this?

low-rent black gangster nicknamed Bootsy (DJP), Tuesday, 7 June 2011 21:53 (six years ago) Permalink

also did he not know Pink was white?

low-rent black gangster nicknamed Bootsy (DJP), Tuesday, 7 June 2011 21:54 (six years ago) Permalink

Unless I missed a huge part of Willa Ford's marketing, this guy is a huge douchebag and doesn't deserve one iota of attention. I mean, jesus christ, coming straight out and calling a female singer a "dumb slut"?

the fey bloggers are onto the zagat tweets (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 7 June 2011 21:58 (six years ago) Permalink

had Jewel released "Fat Boy" by the time he wrote this?

yup. but this guy must've had a small stroke when she released "Intuition" about a year after he wrote that essay.

one of his favorite hobbies (besides clunky music criticism) is 'improving' critically acclaimed poems by rewriting chunks of them in his far more tasteful, far superior writing style. I don't have a problem with questioning the received wisdom w/r/t canonical texts, but this dude truly has an ego that won't quit.

I haven't paid much attention to him since I was like 16, but he's still good for the occasional lol nowadays.

gtforia estfufan (unregistered), Tuesday, 7 June 2011 22:04 (six years ago) Permalink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyC59VuGbMs

this should be linked everywhere so that people stop thinking Jewel can write songs

low-rent black gangster nicknamed Bootsy (DJP), Tuesday, 7 June 2011 22:09 (six years ago) Permalink

DJP it's 2011 and I'm pretty sure even Jewel no longer thinks she can write good songs.

gtforia estfufan (unregistered), Tuesday, 7 June 2011 22:16 (six years ago) Permalink

"Fat Boy" sounds like a Belly song from a fantasy universe (circa 1992) in which Tanya Donnelly is an absolute fucking moron.

gtforia estfufan (unregistered), Tuesday, 7 June 2011 22:19 (six years ago) Permalink

wow, "fat boy" is pretty hilarious.

Hush, sleep
Don't think, just eat

original bgm, Tuesday, 7 June 2011 22:29 (six years ago) Permalink

Top Comments

I'm Fat.
Gorthakk 2 years ago

original bgm, Tuesday, 7 June 2011 22:29 (six years ago) Permalink

lol @ that jewel song, its basically a in irl version of this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jv6mEv_rDdE

puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Tuesday, 7 June 2011 22:43 (six years ago) Permalink

DJP it's 2011 and I'm pretty sure even Jewel no longer thinks she can write good songs.

She is the host and judge of a competitive songwriting show!

http://www.nbcumv.com/mediavillage/networks/bravo/platinumhit

low-rent black gangster nicknamed Bootsy (DJP), Tuesday, 7 June 2011 23:14 (six years ago) Permalink

four months pass...

Not gonna add this to one of the zillion Loutallica threads because it really belongs in a thread about bad music writing. This review of Lulu really irritates me:

http://www.volcanictongue.com/columns/show/17

And this is what Lou Reed and Metallica are becoming: Rock'n'roll animals in the perverted zoo of the internet. Yes, Lulu is about sex. It is a 69 between Lou Reed and Metallica. Lou's tongue is a chainsaw with rusted links (for infection and maximum durability). Metallica gets cut in two and will never recover.

ban this sick stunt (anagram), Friday, 4 November 2011 20:22 (six years ago) Permalink

Yes, Lulu is about sex. It is a 69 between Lou Reed and Metallica. Lou's tongue is a chainsaw with rusted links (for infection and maximum durability)

This is like conservatives with totalitarian envy.

lumber up, limbaugh down (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 4 November 2011 20:26 (six years ago) Permalink

idk I kinda liked that, it prolly helps if you have a working idea of Mattin's sense of humour

We All Had Guess Papers (DJ Mencap), Friday, 4 November 2011 21:07 (six years ago) Permalink

one year passes...

stand back, gary giddins...

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/music/2012/11/ten_jazz_albums_to_hear_before_you_die.php

scott seward, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 19:45 (five years ago) Permalink

cool i'll add those to my bucket list thx village voice

drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 19:55 (five years ago) Permalink

they paved pazz & jop and put in about.com

drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 19:57 (five years ago) Permalink

hard to even pick an excerpt, but man

Probably one of the hippest figures in jazz, Thelonious Monk was a genius who was able to see notes on the piano that didn't even exist in Western music. When he would sit down on the piano, he would strike two half notes (notes next to each other that sound awful when played together) to simulate the imaginary notes between the two piano keys.

drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:03 (five years ago) Permalink

okay, so that piece isn't great. but it's not exactly terrible either.

Chuck_Norris_on_the_topic_of_obesity (stevie), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:07 (five years ago) Permalink

Oh, dude, it is so terrible.

In fact, I knew this thread revival was going to be about this list.

If Assholes Could Fly This Place Would Be An Airport, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:09 (five years ago) Permalink

okay, so that piece isn't great. but it's not exactly terrible either.

― Chuck_Norris_on_the_topic_of_obesity (stevie), Tuesday, November 13, 2012 3:07 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

how is it not exactly terrible? It is exactly terrible.

drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:12 (five years ago) Permalink

If you think about the course of hip-hop, then can you really imagine groups like Tribe Called Quest or even someone like Tupac without a cultural and musical prophet like Coltrane?

Brad C., Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:13 (five years ago) Permalink

6. Miles Davis
Bitches Brew
I'm not saying that you have to like this album. But it's one you just have to listen to before you die; it's kind of like looking at Abstract Expressionism or listening to Morton Feldman -- it just might not jive with you. Bitches Brew was released in 1970. The first time I heard this album, I thought it was a joke. In fact, I was kind of pissed. Where was the melody? Where was the catchy rhythm? Well, it's so shocking the first time you hear it that it forces you to question what jazz and music can be. It makes you think about structure and limitations of our current music. The prison of the human ear. Ah, enough of that. Just listen to the album. Chaos and cacophony defined.

drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:13 (five years ago) Permalink

Charles Mingus is the godfather of the upright bass

drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:15 (five years ago) Permalink

This is a hilarious article. Serious laughs.

Evan, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:16 (five years ago) Permalink

"it just might not jive with you" <-- wtf

I loves you, PORGI (DJP), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:18 (five years ago) Permalink

that's not even getting to the fact that he's making Bitches Brew sound like a Naked City release

I loves you, PORGI (DJP), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:18 (five years ago) Permalink

The first time I heard this album, I thought it was a joke. In fact, I was kind of pissed. Where was the melody? Where was the catchy rhythm?

sug ones (omar little), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:21 (five years ago) Permalink

thanks, i cdn't think of a suitable vehicle for laughing at that BB piece

only Brod can judge me (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:21 (five years ago) Permalink

for some reason my favourite detail is his assertion that there are multiple decades of jazz.

Yorkshire lass born and bred, that's me, said Katriona's hologram. (thomp), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:21 (five years ago) Permalink

brb gonna go play some half notes on my piano -- they're not even known to western music and basically imaginary

drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:21 (five years ago) Permalink

village voice sneaking geir hongro into its freelance rolodex under another name

sug ones (omar little), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:22 (five years ago) Permalink

the vicious atonal skronk of Bitches Brew was so mind-blowing in its redefinition of what music cd be that only 10 years earlier were dudes like Coleman and Ayler able to catch up

only Brod can judge me (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:22 (five years ago) Permalink

for some reason my favourite detail is his assertion that there are multiple decades of jazz.

― Yorkshire lass born and bred, that's me, said Katriona's hologram. (thomp), Tuesday, November 13, 2012 3:21 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I loved this too

drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:22 (five years ago) Permalink

it's kind of like looking at Abstract Expressionism or listening to Morton Feldman -- it just might not jive with you.

yes of course what idiot would do these things for pleasure

C:\GAMES\KEEN\KEEN4E.EXE (clouds), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:23 (five years ago) Permalink

http://blogs.ocweekly.com/heardmentality/2012/11/10_albums_while_studying.php?page=4

3. Simon Trpceski -- Debussy: Images

Claude Debussy is one of the best French composers and probably artists, and that says a hell of lot. His compositions were analogous to the paintings of the impressionists, and he hoped when you listened to his music, you saw, literally, similar visualizations of Monet. That's why he called his work Images. You can find an album by Simon Trpceski on Spotify. Take for instance Debussy's, "Clair De Lune." It's probably one of the most famous works in music -- played in everything from lullabies to film scores. And really, it's not just a song. It's a painting that will set all 100,000,000,000 neurons in the average human brain on fire.

drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:23 (five years ago) Permalink

village voice sneaking geir hongro into its freelance rolodex under another name

Geir would NEVER have made that half note gaffe

I loves you, PORGI (DJP), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:24 (five years ago) Permalink

brb gonna go play some half notes on my piano -- they're not even known to western music and basically imaginary

― drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Tuesday, November 13, 2012 3:21 PM (4 minutes ago)

Can't you read they're in between those

Evan, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:27 (five years ago) Permalink

In a way, studying or being creative is kind of like sex. Yes, you can probably have it any time you want (some of us, anyway), but sometimes, it's really about being in the right mood.

Joseph Lapin, ladies and gentlemen.

only Brod can judge me (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:28 (five years ago) Permalink

i like the idea that this guy was pissed at miles davis for the way a 43 yr old undisputed masterpiece sounded.

sug ones (omar little), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:28 (five years ago) Permalink

named after the Williamsburg Bridge, which connects Manhattan to Brooklyn.

lmao @ this bit of trivia being in the village voice

sug ones (omar little), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:29 (five years ago) Permalink

At one point, Head Hunters was the best selling jazz album of all time. Be warned though, there is experimentation happening here.

super perv powder (Phil D.), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:30 (five years ago) Permalink

If you're about to go sky diving, and you're not sure if you're going to survive, play this album on the car ride over.

drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:31 (five years ago) Permalink

Why is it so great? Let's not try to put it into words. It might be something unsayable.

Kind of Blue is about abortion?

drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:31 (five years ago) Permalink

If you're about to go sky diving, and you're not sure if you're going to survive, play this album on the car ride over. turn the car around imo

sug ones (omar little), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:32 (five years ago) Permalink

Herbie Hancock helped bring the synthesizer and the Fender Rhodes Electric Piano to mass appeal.

once the domain only of enthusiasts like The Beatles and The Doors

drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:34 (five years ago) Permalink

In a way, studying or being creative is kind of like sex. Yes, you can probably have it any time you want (some of us, anyway)

I can study and sex all day whenever wherever

Evan, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:36 (five years ago) Permalink

also (kind of exhausting this piece, I know, but)

Ornette Coleman went from playing the sax to the trumpet

um, not on Shape of Jazz to Come, and not really that often in general.

drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:40 (five years ago) Permalink

I don't want to give this terrible thing clickthroughs but I kind of want to see if it's being savaged in the comments

I loves you, PORGI (DJP), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:42 (five years ago) Permalink

"I can still remember the first time I heard this album. I was 17, and I was driving my Subaru Legacy Wagon in the rain."

idiot man-child (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:46 (five years ago) Permalink

i think the five minute drive to his grandparent's house in the subaru might be my favorite part. belongs on the *worst anecdote ever* thread.

scott seward, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:48 (five years ago) Permalink

i once wept like a schoolgirl driving home from work the day my grandmother died and "hollywood swinging" came on the radio but you don't see me trying to work it into any listicles.

idiot man-child (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:49 (five years ago) Permalink

And really, it's not just a song.

...it's not a fucking song!

C:\GAMES\KEEN\KEEN4E.EXE (clouds), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:50 (five years ago) Permalink

Misspelt Mingus song title. Axe this fucker to death.

comedy is unnatural and abhorrent (Scik Mouthy), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:51 (five years ago) Permalink

I really liked the image of him already at his grandparents house with So What less than half over, sitting in their driveway "blaring" the record while his grandparents are staring out the window like "what the hell is Joseph doing out there?"

drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:52 (five years ago) Permalink

honestly would prefer maudlin personal anecdotes to eight-hand regurgitation of Intro To Jazz class material

da croupier, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:52 (five years ago) Permalink

i mean it's POSSIBLE for a random twentysomething to have a touching anecdote involving a mingus album, far less likely they have any information/insight wikipedia doesn't

da croupier, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:53 (five years ago) Permalink

you know he was sitting in his car in the driveway in the rain because he was dreading the fact that he actually had to hang out with his grandparents and help them, like, change lightbulbs or something. not because his life was being changed by a jazz record.

scott seward, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:54 (five years ago) Permalink

once I was pulling into a grocery store parking lot and "It's Still Rock and Roll To Me" came on the radio and I was too lazy to change the station so I kept listening to it until I parked

paula boradwell (crüt), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:54 (five years ago) Permalink

this dude probably passive-aggressively sits in driveways for thirty-five minutes because he "has to hear the rest of this record" all the time

drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:55 (five years ago) Permalink

maybe if he'd actually talked to his grandparents he might have found they had first-hand stories to share about the genius of dave brubeck.

idiot man-child (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:55 (five years ago) Permalink

alas, now they are worm food.

idiot man-child (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:55 (five years ago) Permalink

this morning as i parked the car in the garage at my office building, i heard the first few notes of surrender by cheap trick. slight disappointment arose within me when i realized it was not the version from budokan. yet i still listened because it's a good song. cried a bit or something, memories.

sug ones (omar little), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:56 (five years ago) Permalink

I've performed with Dave Brubeck twice btw, I just wanted to throw that out there </insufferable>

I loves you, PORGI (DJP), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:57 (five years ago) Permalink

last week i was smoking a cigarette in the parking lot outside of where I was working that day and the prodigy's breathe came on right when I was done with the cigarette so I turned the radio off and walked towards the gate I had to go through but some public works guys had parked their car near the gate and they were blasting the rest of breathe by the prodigy and when one of them asked me for a cigarette I said I was out

puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:57 (five years ago) Permalink

there was a Police song playing in my car earlier today, I forget which one

paula boradwell (crüt), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:58 (five years ago) Permalink

one of his "classical" reviews (of an ennio morricone album) features the phrase "Yo-Yo Ma and his aching cello"

drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:58 (five years ago) Permalink

godfather of the upright cello

puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:59 (five years ago) Permalink

i don't have a car or else i'd go out and sit in it and listen to a whole album right now. maybe the well-tuned piano.

idiot man-child (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:59 (five years ago) Permalink

xp or maybe it an AC/DC song playing in the police car that took me away from the house whose driveway I sat in for 30 minutes blaring music -- lol, my grandparents are dead, totally forgot

drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:59 (five years ago) Permalink

hurtingchief
Wow, thank you for the great introduction to this music called "Jazz." Miles Davis, huh, I will have to check that guy out. Glad the Voice is still around to shine a light on the hidden corners of the music world.

super perv powder (Phil D.), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:59 (five years ago) Permalink

one time after i hooked up with a girl, i was driving in my car and 'you got lucky' by tom petty came on the radio. funny, that.

sug ones (omar little), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:00 (five years ago) Permalink

my dad used to sit in the car with the radio on after pulling into the driveway, but he was an alcoholic

C:\GAMES\KEEN\KEEN4E.EXE (clouds), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:00 (five years ago) Permalink

i was going to turn this whole thread

whitesnake - "here i go again"

into a voice pitch. maybe i can now.

idiot man-child (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:00 (five years ago) Permalink

I heard a Yo-Yo Ma cello performance that was so aching I accidentally drove off the road and crashed into my grandparents' house

paula boradwell (crüt), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:00 (five years ago) Permalink

i killed my grandfather while listening to albert ayler.

idiot man-child (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:02 (five years ago) Permalink

now that's journalism.

paula boradwell (crüt), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:02 (five years ago) Permalink

you weren't sure he was going to survive, so you put on Spiritual Unity

drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:02 (five years ago) Permalink

gave in and went to the first page, went "oh fuck no" and backed away

I loves you, PORGI (DJP), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:02 (five years ago) Permalink

sorry guys i'm writing this from jail i meant to tell you.

idiot man-child (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:03 (five years ago) Permalink

twist ending

sug ones (omar little), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:03 (five years ago) Permalink

When I first put on Herbie Mann - Memphis Underground, I was PISSED. What is that shrill, experimental sound?

drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:03 (five years ago) Permalink

did people really fuck to take five

puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:05 (five years ago) Permalink

When I first put on Stravinsky's "Le Sacre du Printemps," I was pissed. Where was the melody? Then I threw a chair and booed.

super perv powder (Phil D.), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:06 (five years ago) Permalink

So the Village Voice is paying their writers in Skittles now? Because that seems to be how they attracted the talents of this fine scribe.

5-Hour Enmity (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:06 (five years ago) Permalink

i'm pretty sure i was conceived to chuck mangione's "feels so good"

idiot man-child (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:06 (five years ago) Permalink

lol

paula boradwell (crüt), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:06 (five years ago) Permalink

Skittles beat what some place pay.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:07 (five years ago) Permalink

most of us are actually paid in marshmallow "circus peanuts" these days

haha omg

idiot man-child (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:09 (five years ago) Permalink

josh that is fucking creepy

idiot man-child (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:09 (five years ago) Permalink

this bottomlessly horrid listicle is producing psychic mind-melds between ilxors now

idiot man-child (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:10 (five years ago) Permalink

"Be warned though, there is experimentation happening here."

I think I saw this written on one of those doorknob things at a hotel.

Evan, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:16 (five years ago) Permalink

There's something happening but you don't know what it is, do you, Mr. Lapin

EZ Snappin, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:18 (five years ago) Permalink

i heard amy goodman rambling on and on about bbc sex scandal in the car this morning and then i heard katy perry and then i yelled at my kids. it was raining.

scott seward, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:18 (five years ago) Permalink

I like how he confuses "raucous" with "ruckus" in the Mingus bit. Well done.

5-Hour Enmity (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:19 (five years ago) Permalink

it's still not as bad/horrifying as "jive"/"jibe"

I loves you, PORGI (DJP), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:20 (five years ago) Permalink

where be thy jives now?

C:\GAMES\KEEN\KEEN4E.EXE (clouds), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:21 (five years ago) Permalink

Oh man, I fucking hate when people do that. But it's so common that "jive" is about to overtake "jibe."

5-Hour Enmity (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:21 (five years ago) Permalink

he is apparently old enough to drive a car so i guess its safe to assume he isn't 12. which would be the only excuse for this thing i can come up with. though that might actually be offensive to actual 12 year old kids.

scott seward, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:21 (five years ago) Permalink

honestly I did not know it was "jibe" till just now.

paula boradwell (crüt), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:22 (five years ago) Permalink

I definitely did not know about any of these albums when I was 12.

paula boradwell (crüt), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:22 (five years ago) Permalink

my whole life has been cloaked in ignorance

paula boradwell (crüt), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:22 (five years ago) Permalink

The jibe/jive & raucous/rawkus posts make it sound like you're arguing about Cherry Poppin' Daddies lyrics.

EZ Snappin, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:23 (five years ago) Permalink

xp: at least you did not say your life was clucked in ignorance

I loves you, PORGI (DJP), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:23 (five years ago) Permalink

i think my dad might have owned "headhunters" but it also might have been too funky for him

idiot man-child (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:23 (five years ago) Permalink

and there was experimentation going on in there

only Brod can judge me (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:24 (five years ago) Permalink

to be fair discharge would have been too funky for my dad

idiot man-child (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:25 (five years ago) Permalink

funky discharge is unfair to everybody.

EZ Snappin, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:25 (five years ago) Permalink

my parents didn't do enough experimentation to listen to funky jazz

paula boradwell (crüt), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:26 (five years ago) Permalink

when i first started listening to jazz my mom just called me maynard g. krebs a lot

idiot man-child (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:28 (five years ago) Permalink

when i was little, my dad sung me a blood, sweat & tears song every night before i went to sleep.

scott seward, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:29 (five years ago) Permalink

my dad played a lot of Miles Davis, Dave Brubeck, James Brown, Steely Dan, The Beatles, Average White Band, Stevie Wonder and Vanilla Fudge

I loves you, PORGI (DJP), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:31 (five years ago) Permalink

claire de lune is used in lullabies

drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:31 (five years ago) Permalink

my dad's favorite band was yes :'-(

idiot man-child (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:31 (five years ago) Permalink

I have a friend who teaches a class in criticism and music writing, a post-grad class, and she says the quality of student and in particular their writing is overwhelmingly abysmal. I have a feeling their idea of funk - or jazz, for that matter - may be the Red Hot Chili Peppers.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:32 (five years ago) Permalink

Before the first time I saw Charles Mingus, I thought bass could only be played flat on the ground. But then one day I drove my Hyundai Elantra over to my grandparents house. It was only a three minute ride, but when i pulled into the driveway, there was Charles Mingus, playing the bass upright. Some say he is the godfather of the upright bass. Including me!

drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:33 (five years ago) Permalink

taste in music and quality of writing don't necessarily correlate; my dad could write amazingly and convincingly about Vanilla Fudge and it would not change the fact that he was lionizing Vanilla Fudge

I loves you, PORGI (DJP), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:34 (five years ago) Permalink

I dunno, the ability to lionize Vanilla Fudge is an achievement unto itself!

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:35 (five years ago) Permalink

That would be my assignment if I were teaching music writing: in 800 words or less, convincingly praise Vanilla Fudge.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:35 (five years ago) Permalink

(although I'm listening to a remastered version of "You Keep Me Hanging On" on Spotify right now and I'm starting to get it)

also Hurting, you know that "upright bass" is actual terminology, right

I loves you, PORGI (DJP), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:36 (five years ago) Permalink

dan i think i have a project your dad might be interested in

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1828132368/uncool

idiot man-child (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:36 (five years ago) Permalink

I don't think I've ever heard Vanilla Fudge. They fell through the same crack that caught Uriah Heap.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:36 (five years ago) Permalink

also Hurting, you know that "upright bass" is actual terminology, right

― I loves you, PORGI (DJP), Tuesday, November 13, 2012 4:36 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol of course

drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:37 (five years ago) Permalink

http://open.spotify.com/track/4R2Zih6jIGEpANAYdFCRaf

the Vanilla Fudge version of "You Keep Me Hanging On", which my dad played to death

I loves you, PORGI (DJP), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:37 (five years ago) Permalink

There should be something called downright bass.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:38 (five years ago) Permalink

i'm gonna see my dad in a week or two cuz he's coming down from upstate new york to see the louis hayes trio in brattleboro. he bought tickets online. 2+ hour drive does not keep his 75 year old self from the jazz.

scott seward, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:38 (five years ago) Permalink

imo vanilla fudge should not just be heard but seen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFabNBveHOk

da croupier, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:40 (five years ago) Permalink

i can't load all, can anyone relink to the post that set off this conversation?

Everybody did shit, art happened! (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:40 (five years ago) Permalink

some douchebag twentysomething wrote a jazz listicle for a once venerable publication

idiot man-child (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:41 (five years ago) Permalink

you ain't missin much

idiot man-child (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:41 (five years ago) Permalink

so I click on this thread and you guys are discussing Vanilla Fudge

the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:41 (five years ago) Permalink

you know it kinda freaks me out that djp's dad and my dad would have a common point of connection at all and that it would be vanilla fudge

idiot man-child (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:43 (five years ago) Permalink

yeah that Vanilla Fudge video is like a master class in psychedellic stage hamming

drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:43 (five years ago) Permalink

you know, after watching that video I kind of have to say I'm regressing back to childhood and deciding that Vanilla Fudge pwns

I loves you, PORGI (DJP), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:44 (five years ago) Permalink

wait holy shit @ that video

idiot man-child (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:45 (five years ago) Permalink

more classic tim bogert o face for u

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Yl8u2vGuwc

da croupier, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:46 (five years ago) Permalink

^ junior wells' "shotgun"

da croupier, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:46 (five years ago) Permalink

lol junior walker's i mean

da croupier, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:47 (five years ago) Permalink

this article doesn't really chive with me

flopson, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:47 (five years ago) Permalink

There's a hilarious line in Townshend's autobio about Vanilla Fudge: "Yes, they were louder than us. But they were still Vanilla Fudge."

5-Hour Enmity (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:48 (five years ago) Permalink

I'm going to replace the "laser on" sign that lights up outside of our lab with "At one point, Head Hunters was the best selling jazz album of all time. Be warned though, there is experimentation happening here."

Eccsame the Photon Guys (Sufjan Grafton), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:49 (five years ago) Permalink

I've performed with Dave Brubeck twice btw, I just wanted to throw that out there </insufferable>

i once delegated the task of buying dave brubeck a six pack of heineken

mookieproof, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:49 (five years ago) Permalink

yeah that Vanilla Fudge video is like a master class in psychedellic stage hamming

drumstick twirls are A+

Force Boxman (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:49 (five years ago) Permalink

reading vv now is kinda lol but mostly sad

flopson, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:50 (five years ago) Permalink

getting phil freeman vibes from this guy tbh

flopson, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:50 (five years ago) Permalink

Rock & Roll is probably my fave Fudge album. great title too.

scott seward, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:51 (five years ago) Permalink

from the Rock & Roll era. just mayhem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXvIOKBp1vQ

scott seward, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:54 (five years ago) Permalink

more keyboardists need to flail their left hand when they're not using it

da croupier, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 21:58 (five years ago) Permalink

at first I thought he was directing the band, and then I realized he was communing with the infinite wonder of an ever-expanding, unknowable universe

also I'm super-impressed that he can flail like that and still support his breath

I loves you, PORGI (DJP), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 22:00 (five years ago) Permalink

When he would sit down on the piano, he would strike two half notes (notes next to each other that sound awful when played together) to simulate the imaginary notes between the two piano keys.

It's like a game of telephone that started with Hermann von Helmholtz in 1880 just finally made its way to Joseph Lapin, and he wrote down the message.

Eccsame the Photon Guys (Sufjan Grafton), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 22:00 (five years ago) Permalink

i really hope that nothing i write ever ends up in this thread.

borntohula, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 22:02 (five years ago) Permalink

write exclusively about vanilla fudge and you will be ok

ums (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 22:05 (five years ago) Permalink

write about vanilla fudge with your right hand while flailing the left

da croupier, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 22:06 (five years ago) Permalink

huge fan of the low-budget tv in-out mindzoom

drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 22:09 (five years ago) Permalink

Wait does this fuck also review classical music for VV or are those (astonishing) bits pulled from elsewhere?

Antonin Scylla (Jon Lewis), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 22:11 (five years ago) Permalink

the dude that wrote the "ten jazz albums to hear before you die" piece also got a "top 5 multiplayer nintendo games" post up today at the oc weekly so i'm not surprised if he's covering classical too

da croupier, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 22:12 (five years ago) Permalink

top 10 tyrannical dictators

I loves you, PORGI (DJP), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 22:13 (five years ago) Permalink

DJP tell your pop to stay tuned for my Vanilla Fudge thinkpiece

borntohula, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 22:13 (five years ago) Permalink

done and done

I loves you, PORGI (DJP), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 22:14 (five years ago) Permalink

the classical bit was pulled from elsewhere and is Joseph Lapin, i didn't think the Jazz article was the same dude?

only Brod can judge me (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 22:14 (five years ago) Permalink

jazz article is also lapin

da croupier, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 22:17 (five years ago) Permalink

same dude

drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 22:17 (five years ago) Permalink

There should be something called downright bass.

― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, November 13, 2012 4:38 PM (37 minutes ago)


Some call it the doghouse bass

What Kind Of EOY POLL Do You Look Like Now? (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 22:18 (five years ago) Permalink

Vanilla Fudge, rocking the ascot!

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 22:19 (five years ago) Permalink

Downton Abbey Bass.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 22:19 (five years ago) Permalink

Downward Facing Bass

Moodles, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 22:23 (five years ago) Permalink

Downtrodden Bass.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 22:24 (five years ago) Permalink

yeah so i read that piece and strongo was right except that I now have the phrase "a jazz bucket, filled with masterpieces" stuck in my head

Everybody did shit, art happened! (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 22:25 (five years ago) Permalink

KFC currently offering an awesome jazz bucket special.

I once saw Eleventh Dream Day, and I was trying to figure out the type of fish on the back of Doug McCombs's bass. "Trout?" I asked my friend out loud. "No, idiot," said some other guy. "It's a bass.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 22:26 (five years ago) Permalink

one of my college friends wrote the following poem while in high school:

I like to sing bass
Because it rhymes with 'ass'

I loves you, PORGI (DJP), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 22:31 (five years ago) Permalink

trout
how low can you go

multiple decades of jazz (Jon Lewis), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 22:32 (five years ago) Permalink

catfish, surely.

Everybody did shit, art happened! (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 22:33 (five years ago) Permalink

an imprint of strange and beautiful blaps

Albert Crampus (NickB), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 22:49 (five years ago) Permalink

i bought a packet of circus peanuts today b/c of this thread.

mod is my co-pilot (Pillbox), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 22:53 (five years ago) Permalink

ew

multiple decades of jazz (Jon Lewis), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 22:56 (five years ago) Permalink

How many people buy circus peanuts a year, or were they just made all and once years ago and have been sitting on shelves ever since?

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 22:58 (five years ago) Permalink

Just before birth, the fates allot each man a certain number of circus peanuts; when the last is eaten he is visited by death.

multiple decades of jazz (Jon Lewis), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 23:00 (five years ago) Permalink

the first one was OK, but I tired of them midway through the second & threw the rest away. I was just kind of curious about them b/c I haven't eaten them since I was prob age 5 or so. Impressively, the texture & taste is even more artificial-seeming than you'd think, given their appearance.

mod is my co-pilot (Pillbox), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 23:01 (five years ago) Permalink

I'd rather eat packaging peanuts.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 13 November 2012 23:02 (five years ago) Permalink

This is like from a high school newspaper!

http://blogs.ocweekly.com/heardmentality/2012/09/john_coltrane_a_love_supreme.php

ya bish called wanda (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 14 November 2012 06:18 (five years ago) Permalink

http://josephalapin.com

mookieproof, Wednesday, 14 November 2012 06:22 (five years ago) Permalink

Yeesh.

Funny how the "high school newspaper" genre now includes random facts from Wikipedia.

Sandy Denny Real Estate (jaymc), Wednesday, 14 November 2012 06:22 (five years ago) Permalink

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that Flying Lotus, born Steven Ellison, is a special artists, guiding our ear palettes and rhythmic intuitions into complex and undiscovered territory.

lil dirk (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 14 November 2012 06:29 (five years ago) Permalink

i kind of like this guy for saying things like "And of course, Coltrane was just straight-up killing the sax."

flopson, Wednesday, 14 November 2012 06:38 (five years ago) Permalink

flopson stop being okay w/ everything

C:\GAMES\KEEN\KEEN4E.EXE (clouds), Wednesday, 14 November 2012 06:47 (five years ago) Permalink

Happy belated birthday, Trane!

how's life, Wednesday, 14 November 2012 10:39 (five years ago) Permalink

Could have just got him a card, Joe.

how's life, Wednesday, 14 November 2012 10:40 (five years ago) Permalink

And then there's Trane's A Love Supreme which all the lovers of the NOW SOUND swear by and all it is is the precursor of the Vanilla Fudge, Coltrane's worst and its good that he's dead I would say it worse than that

-- Not a bad excerpt from not a bad piece of writing by R. Meltzer to be found in Gulcher (and perhaps originally in the Voice)

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 14 November 2012 11:08 (five years ago) Permalink

not bad piece of writing, just so there is no confusion..

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 14 November 2012 11:09 (five years ago) Permalink

but quote inaccurately, blame the lack of coffee.

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 14 November 2012 11:10 (five years ago) Permalink

It turned out that John Coltrane, like many of the great beboppers (Miles Davis, Thelonious Monk, Charlie "Bird" Parker), would fall victim to the black-tar bug -- in other words, heroin.

All this needs is for "beboppers" to be in quotes and it'll be perfect.

super perv powder (Phil D.), Wednesday, 14 November 2012 11:21 (five years ago) Permalink

texas t

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 14 November 2012 11:25 (five years ago) Permalink

crude

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 14 November 2012 11:26 (five years ago) Permalink

can i just say i love you all

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 14 November 2012 11:26 (five years ago) Permalink

I haven't really read this thread properly yet, but I'm going to drop what I'm doing and check it out NOW.

What Kind Of EOY POLL Do You Look Like Now? (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 14 November 2012 13:14 (five years ago) Permalink

As a jazz fan you might find it helpful. Sure made an impression on me.

Albert Crampus (NickB), Wednesday, 14 November 2012 13:19 (five years ago) Permalink

Well when I say impression, I mean more sort of like an imprint of strange and beautiful blaps

Albert Crampus (NickB), Wednesday, 14 November 2012 13:20 (five years ago) Permalink

I always thought this "jazz" stuff was pretty scary but now I'm going to give it a try.

Deafening silence (DL), Wednesday, 14 November 2012 13:21 (five years ago) Permalink

reading this article in the voice is like the end of flowers for algernon.

s.clover, Wednesday, 14 November 2012 13:44 (five years ago) Permalink

lmao

flopson, Wednesday, 14 November 2012 13:50 (five years ago) Permalink

Funny how the "high school newspaper" genre now includes random facts from Wikipedia.
It's almost like the educational text on a kid's restaurant placemat. The only thing missing is the Word Scramble- SILEM VASID- and the Jazz Maze.

lol at algernon

What Kind Of EOY POLL Do You Look Like Now? (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 14 November 2012 14:14 (five years ago) Permalink

I accidentally listened to Head Hunters and think I might have heard some experimentation, is there someone I can call? ;_;

super perv powder (Phil D.), Wednesday, 14 November 2012 14:38 (five years ago) Permalink

some sort of funky doctor i guess

idiot man-child (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Wednesday, 14 November 2012 14:39 (five years ago) Permalink

xp

You were warned.

5-Hour Enmity (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Wednesday, 14 November 2012 14:39 (five years ago) Permalink

lol all that clicking inspired a sequel. i hate the internet.

maura, Wednesday, 14 November 2012 15:07 (five years ago) Permalink

haha! sorry. its kinda funny though. they sent in the big guns! love this:

Yesterday's much celebrated "Ten Jazz Albums to Hear Before You Die" post was a starter course, an easily digestible, rudimentary entry into the storied genre that not one person on the planet disagreed with. But today, we go further. Because for every Blue Train or Kind of Blue there's a jazz album that's as good, or better, but infinitely more obscure. Here are 10 of them, culled from about 100 years.

scott seward, Wednesday, 14 November 2012 15:22 (five years ago) Permalink

At least they got decent writers the second time around. I was on an EMP panel with Rodriguez, and I've employed Kassel as a freelancer myself. And the ten discs they chose are an interesting mix. But none of that washes away the stain of the first piece.

誤訳侮辱, Wednesday, 14 November 2012 15:35 (five years ago) Permalink

Don't worry, I'm not going to get too music geek on you right now

thanks for going easy on me, half note

drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 14 November 2012 15:38 (five years ago) Permalink

so we don't all have to clickthrough that:

Ten (More) Jazz Albums to Hear Before You Die
By Sound of the City Wed., Nov. 14 2012 at 7:20 AM
Categories: Jazz

By Matthew Kassel and Alex W. Rodriguez

Yesterday's much celebrated "Ten Jazz Albums to Hear Before You Die" post was a starter course, an easily digestible, rudimentary entry into the storied genre that not one person on the planet disagreed with. But today, we go further. Because for every Blue Train or Kind of Blue there's a jazz album that's as good, or better, but infinitely more obscure. Here are 10 of them, culled from about 100 years.

See Also:
- Ten Jazz Albums to Hear Before You Die
- Top Ten Jazz Shows in NYC This Month

10. Louis Armstrong
Satchmo at Symphony Hall
Louis Armstrong's triumphant return to the small-ensemble format came with the trumpeter at the peak of his powers, and surrounded by virtuoso sidemen. In addition to Armstrong's updated renditions of his classic repertoire, clarinetist Barney Bigard and trombonist Jack Teagarden give inspired performances during their respective features, making this a singular document of these original jazz giants at their absolute best.

9. Sidney Bechet
Moasic Select: Sidney Bechet
Sidney Bechet's completely inimitable style is in full force on these remastered takes of his work with Columbia from the 1920s to the 1940s. Really, any record that features Bechet's wild virtuosity and shuddering vibrato is worth a listen; this boxed set just happens to feature some of the most carefully-restored examples of it, which can be difficult to find. Or, you can hear his "Si Tu Vois Ma Mere" as the opening cut on the Midnight in Paris soundtrack -- we can always leave it to Woody Allen to give the early jazz greats their due.

8. The Quintet
Jazz at Massey Hall
On May 15, 1953, the world heavy weight champion Rocky Marciano knocked out Jersey Joe Walcott to defend his title in a boxing match in Chicago. That same night Charlie Parker, Dizzy Gillespie, Bud Powell, Charles Mingus and Max Roach got on a stage in Toronto and played bebop standards with the same vigor with which a pugilist might throw his prize-winning punch. More people watched the boxing match 50 years ago, but you'd do well to check out this album now. Listen to Gillespie impetuously shrieking "salt PEE-nuts!" as Parker enters his solo.

7. Nancy Wilson with the Cannonball Adderley Quintet
Nancy Wilson/Cannonball Adderley
Nancy Wilson was only 24 years old when she joined Cannonball Adderley and his quintet to make this beautiful record. She sounds in complete command. Four of the tracks on this CD are instrumental, and they're good post-bop numbers -- featuring Louis Hayes on drums, Sam Jones on bass, Joe Zawinul on piano and Cannonball's brother, Nat, on trumpet. But the group is at its best working behind Wilson, accentuating her impeccable voice.

6. Duke Ellington, Max Roach and Charles Mingus
Money Jungle
If you think of Duke Ellington as an even-tempered artist, then listen to Money Jungle, which he recorded in 1962 with Max Roach and Charles Mingus, and reconsider. This is an odd record, but its no exaggeration to say that it is one of the greatest piano trio recordings ever made. And if you're looking for an album which showcases Ellington's abilities as a pianist, this is the one to check out.

5. John Coltrane Quartet
Crescent
In 1964, John Coltrane recorded A Love Supreme -- his most exalted album -- to express his admiration for God. It deserves every bit of the attention it gets. But Crescent, made earlier that very year, with the same unflappable quartet of McCoy Tyner on piano, Elvin Jones on drums and Jimmy Garrison on bass, may be the saxophonist's deepest and most affecting CD.

4. Count Basie
Count Basie Live at the Sands
No jazz list is complete without a big band, and Count Basie's New Testament band of the 1950s and '60s is one of the form's most dynamic and hard-swinging exponents. This album, a live take of one of Basie's popular Las Vegas shows, opening for Frank Sinatra, serves up a satisfying blend of classic Frank Foster charts, clever re-workings of pop tunes like Ray Charles's "I Can't Stop Loving You" and in-the-pocket solos from star sidemen such as trombonist Al Grey and trumpeter Harry "Sweets" Edison.

3. Julius Hemphill
Dogon A.D.
On Dogon A.D. -- one of the finest examples of loft jazz out there, from 1972 -- you'll hear complex funk, repeated melodic patterns and spare instrumentation. Like Ornette Coleman, Julius Hemphill, who founded the World Saxophone Quartet, was born in Fort Worth, Texas, in the 1930s, and he never abandoned his attachment to the blues, even at his most experimental. In 2011 this record was reissued in limited supply by the International Phonograph Inc. label after years of being out of print.

2. Maceo Parker
Life on Planet Groove
This unfathomably funky set of music comes from the horn section that helped make James Brown famous: Maceo Parker, Pee Wee Ellis, and Fred Wesley. This live recording captures a brilliant highlight of their post-Brown careers, featuring adventurous improvisation alongside passionate showmanship. Parker described the music as "two percent jazz, 98 percent funky stuff," and he and his bandmates cooked up a potent mix of creative blowing and unstoppable groove.

1. Claudia Quintet
Royal Toast
There have been dozens of great jazz releases cut during the past few years that could make up a worthy list of must-hear musical titles, but this one from The Claudia Quintet stands out in particular. Drummer and composer John Hollenbeck's mesmerizing loops and the group's constant polyrhythmic interplay offer a compelling example of what 21st century jazz can sound like: both maddeningly complex and irresistibly hard-grooving, performed by dexterous improvisers who inject something new into every take.

I loves you, PORGI (DJP), Wednesday, 14 November 2012 15:41 (five years ago) Permalink

zzzzzzzzz

multiple decades of jazz (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 14 November 2012 15:43 (five years ago) Permalink

regret selling my original copy of dogon a.d. that's all i have to add.

scott seward, Wednesday, 14 November 2012 15:45 (five years ago) Permalink

the ppl voted for another Lapin listicle and they give us this mere competence?

multiple decades of jazz (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 14 November 2012 15:47 (five years ago) Permalink

ha.

What Kind Of EOY POLL Do You Look Like Now? (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 14 November 2012 15:48 (five years ago) Permalink

Is the 'Jazz at Massey Hall' rec "infinitely more obscure"? there's a whole book abt it!

Ward Fowler, Wednesday, 14 November 2012 15:59 (five years ago) Permalink

Only one copy was ever pressed, and it lies at the bottom of the ocean. Only plankton have heard it.

5-Hour Enmity (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Wednesday, 14 November 2012 16:00 (five years ago) Permalink

Live At R'lyeh Town Hall

multiple decades of jazz (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 14 November 2012 16:00 (five years ago) Permalink

But every one of those plankton formed a band.

What Kind Of EOY POLL Do You Look Like Now? (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 14 November 2012 16:02 (five years ago) Permalink

irl lol

5-Hour Enmity (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Wednesday, 14 November 2012 16:04 (five years ago) Permalink

did the public actually shame a newspaper into competence? sorry about the high school kid, here's something that is almost worth reading!

scott seward, Wednesday, 14 November 2012 16:29 (five years ago) Permalink

I know. I would now like to take back my Sesame Street counting to twenty post.

What Kind Of EOY POLL Do You Look Like Now? (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 14 November 2012 16:43 (five years ago) Permalink

That list is slightly, slightly more interesting and the writing isn't as headsmackingly awful, but why does the Voice need to do this at all? Why does the Voice have to be shitty Time Out? This isn't some new Ugandan underground dance genre, it's fucking Jazz. How about "Ten NYC landmarks you need to see before you die: 10. Central Park; 9. Empire State Building..."

drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 14 November 2012 16:54 (five years ago) Permalink

Top 10 hot dog vendors you may have missed...

scott seward, Wednesday, 14 November 2012 16:56 (five years ago) Permalink

Top 10 hot dog vendors you may have missed...

You know what I fucking miss? The awesome taco truck that used to be around the corner from my office. I ate at fucking Chipotle yesterday and I think they poisoned me...I had the chills and the sweats all night. Oh, well.

誤訳侮辱, Wednesday, 14 November 2012 17:07 (five years ago) Permalink

I'll never forget the first time I had Chipotle. I was on my way to my grandparents for dinner. It was only a five minute ride, but I stayed in the driveway for twenty minutes to finish the entire burrito.

drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 14 November 2012 17:12 (five years ago) Permalink

They say Thelonious would put the medium and hot salsas together on one Chipotle to simulate the imaginary medium-hot salsa between these two salsas that exist in western cuisine

Eccsame the Photon Guys (Sufjan Grafton), Wednesday, 14 November 2012 17:23 (five years ago) Permalink

He sat down on the Chipotle.

how's life, Wednesday, 14 November 2012 17:29 (five years ago) Permalink

monk was the godfather of sriracha.

scott seward, Wednesday, 14 November 2012 17:46 (five years ago) Permalink

The first time I ate Korean Tacos, I thought it was a joke. In fact, I was kind of pissed. Where was the cheddar cheese? Where was the pico de gallo? Well, it's so shocking the first time you eat it that it forces you to question what food can be.

drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 14 November 2012 17:48 (five years ago) Permalink

they say the spice intervals at Guy Fieri's Paris restaurant, The Rite of Spring Rolls, caused the first patrons to riot

Eccsame the Photon Guys (Sufjan Grafton), Wednesday, 14 November 2012 18:02 (five years ago) Permalink

THIS is my kinda listicle. even though i have to click through 14 friggin' pages. i only really read musicians talking about music these days.

http://thequietus.com/articles/10654-michael-gira-swans-bakers-dozen-favourite-albums?page=1

scott seward, Wednesday, 14 November 2012 18:11 (five years ago) Permalink

*diet

xp

Joanna Motorhead (DJ Mencap), Wednesday, 14 November 2012 18:51 (five years ago) Permalink

Missing u, thread on top five jazz topic of last week.

Listicle Vogue (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 18 November 2012 17:51 (five years ago) Permalink

I've been reading about Korean tacos. Joke or not, Hurting has convinced me that these will change my life.

Mozzarella i Fieri (Sufjan Grafton), Sunday, 18 November 2012 18:09 (five years ago) Permalink

oh man bulkogi tacos are an amazing thing

thraeds of life (The Reverend), Sunday, 18 November 2012 22:57 (five years ago) Permalink

Laura Barton in fine form at the Guardian http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/musicblog/2012/nov/15/power-of-love-magical-hit

"It was, Lewis explained, "a curious thing" capable of making "one man weep" and "another man sing"."

bham, Monday, 19 November 2012 11:29 (five years ago) Permalink

hurtingchief
Wow, thank you for the great introduction to this music called "Jazz." Miles Davis, huh, I will have to check that guy out. Glad the Voice is still around to shine a light on the hidden corners of the music world.

― super perv powder (Phil D.), Tuesday, November 13, 2012 3:59 PM (6 days ago) Bookmark

lol

turds (Hungry4Ass), Monday, 19 November 2012 12:13 (five years ago) Permalink

i clicked that vanilla fudge video up there and one of the side links is a 9 minute version of season of the witch

turds (Hungry4Ass), Monday, 19 November 2012 12:14 (five years ago) Permalink

Lewis, Rush and Frankie Goes to Hollywood are not the only artists to have attempted to distill the power of love in song

j., Monday, 19 November 2012 12:17 (five years ago) Permalink

Laura Barton really is the worst. I want to smash something whenever I read her. She has that prissy smugness you get in a lot of student journalism. A nitwit naively laying out one cliche after another.

And then sentences like this: "It's pretty enough, of course, but there is something a little bleached, a little bloodless about Alpin's version".

What function does "of course" have? "There is something"? "A little"? Why bother saying it's both "bleached" AND "bloodless", mixing up the metaphors? The words are so vague here as to be synonymous.

"It's pretty but bloodless." There, that's better.

Eyeball Kicks, Monday, 19 November 2012 12:25 (five years ago) Permalink

It's pretty but bloodless, almost as though she had reneged on her promise to keep the vampires from the door

Albert Crampus (NickB), Monday, 19 November 2012 12:39 (five years ago) Permalink

so many commas

resplendent quetzal spokil (clouds), Monday, 19 November 2012 14:19 (five years ago) Permalink

I'll fuckin throw your listicle up on the dresser, just ya listicle, and bang that shit with a spiked bat. BLAOW!

drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Monday, 19 November 2012 15:20 (five years ago) Permalink

I'd sew that sentence up with a period, and just keep feeding it, clause after clause, comma after comma.

Mozzarella i Fieri (Sufjan Grafton), Monday, 19 November 2012 15:24 (five years ago) Permalink

two weeks pass...

http://noisey.vice.com/blog/rip-dave-brubeck

As our music media continues to focus on Taylor Swift's hotel room sleepovers and Shakira's $100 million dollar lawsuit, a major, mind-numbingly influential figure has passed in our midst.

Dave Brubeck, one America's greatest cultural treasures—the man who got late-50s America dancing in 5/4 time with Paul Desmond's seminal track "Take Five"—died today of heart failure, a single day ahead of his 92nd birthday.

Maybe you haven't heard of Dave Brubeck, and unless you sat through hours of jazz appreciation class in high school, we can't really blame you. Pop music fans have a nasty habit of writing jazz off completely, mostly because it's such a dauntingly rich and nuanced genre. But until you've sunk your teeth into the untouchable discography of the Dave Brubeck Quartet, you probably should take a pass on illegally downloading the next Purity Ring single--no offense Corin and Megan!

More than almost anyone else, Brubeck redefined the role of the jazz musician, and walked through the walls hemming in standard conceptions of genre as if they weren't even there. He was a classically trained pianist who brought his talent to jazz, and almost single handedly proved that jazz was an idiom that deserves a place among the highest forms of art.

What blows my mind about Brubeck has always been "Take Five." It's a melody that's existed in my brain since before I can remember, like the Mario theme or the Crossfire commercial. What's so spectacular about the piece is that it's in 5/4, a time signature which almost no pop music even begins to touch (besides Sunny Day Real Estate). The reason no one touches it is because it's just not catchy. With "Take Five," Brubeck and Desmond managed to create a melody everyone knows, in a time signature no one understands. It's more than just an achievement, it's a challenge to take your audience more seriously. Even if Brubeck's catalog had begun and ended with "Take Five," his impact on the music world would still resonate well beyond that of many of his contemporaries (and successors) combined. Magic.

RIP, Dave.

drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 5 December 2012 22:50 (five years ago) Permalink

almost single handedly proved that jazz was an idiom that deserves a place among the highest forms of art

oof

Force Boxman (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 5 December 2012 22:54 (five years ago) Permalink

Irrelevant and stupid comparison to *today's vapid pop music* -- check
Assumption that your audience has never heard of one of the top-selling jazz artists of all time -- check
Repetition of the canard that Brubeck is a genius because he wrote a song in 5/4, which is like the quantum physics of music or something -- check
Misplaced credit to white guy for elevating jazz to "place among highest forms of art" after it had already been there for decades -- check
"Classically Trained" -- check (seriously do people really think that black jazz pianists are all self-taught blues savants and never went through the Hanon book and Well Tempered Klavier and Chopin etudes like everyone else?

drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 5 December 2012 22:54 (five years ago) Permalink

eesh that is stupid.
the 5/4 thing is such a weird thing. it's a catchy song, no one cares about the time signature. also, i mean, it was his signature song, but he didn't even write it!

tylerw, Wednesday, 5 December 2012 23:07 (five years ago) Permalink

but it's a time signature no one understands!

Force Boxman (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 5 December 2012 23:08 (five years ago) Permalink

understanding 5/4 is definitely a mission impossible

crüt, Wednesday, 5 December 2012 23:10 (five years ago) Permalink

uh people totally care about the time signature in "Take Five." it's called "TAKE FIVE," THAT'S WHAT IT'S FAMOUS FOR

RIP Gramp C (some dude), Wednesday, 5 December 2012 23:11 (five years ago) Permalink

I mean who can count to five

Force Boxman (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 5 December 2012 23:11 (five years ago) Permalink

NOBODY

Force Boxman (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 5 December 2012 23:11 (five years ago) Permalink

Hurting 2 OTMFM.

and I scream Fieri Eiffel Tower High (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Wednesday, 5 December 2012 23:12 (five years ago) Permalink

not that i'm defending this terrible article xp

RIP Gramp C (some dude), Wednesday, 5 December 2012 23:13 (five years ago) Permalink

maybe if he'd actually talked to his grandparents he might have found they had first-hand stories to share about the genius of dave brubeck.

― idiot man-child (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:55 (3 weeks ago) Permalink

alas, now they are worm food.

― idiot man-child (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Tuesday, 13 November 2012 20:55 (3 weeks ago) Permalink

wk, Wednesday, 5 December 2012 23:24 (five years ago) Permalink

sorry i killed dave brubeck everybody u_u

bob chipeska (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Wednesday, 5 December 2012 23:26 (five years ago) Permalink

living in the world of contemporary choral music really makes articles like this a special level of stupid

I loves you, PORGI (DJP), Wednesday, 5 December 2012 23:50 (five years ago) Permalink

walked through the walls hemming in standard conceptions of genre

IS HE IN A BUILDING OR ON A PIECE OF CLOTH? DECIDE!!!

my other pug is a stillsuit (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 5 December 2012 23:56 (five years ago) Permalink

maybe he is drapery

Dave Whobeck? (jjjusten), Thursday, 6 December 2012 00:00 (five years ago) Permalink

But wait, there's more! http://noisey.vice.com/reviews

dow, Thursday, 6 December 2012 01:25 (five years ago) Permalink

no offense Corrin and Megan!

(alternatively, “Respec’”) (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 6 December 2012 01:41 (five years ago) Permalink

it's like vice ate its own shit until it became fecal vice essence

(alternatively, “Respec’”) (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 6 December 2012 01:42 (five years ago) Permalink

(for men)

(alternatively, “Respec’”) (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 6 December 2012 01:43 (five years ago) Permalink

actually it's more of a bite of the old Buddyhead.com reviews section but with more n-word and not punk

the purpose driven trife (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 6 December 2012 01:49 (five years ago) Permalink

"apart from Sunny Day Real Estate"

make like a steak and beef (dog latin), Thursday, 6 December 2012 12:28 (five years ago) Permalink

Ed. Note: The Kid Mero is a Bronx-based writer and comedian specializing in #KNOWLEDGEDARTS and #COKEDREAMS.

some dude, Thursday, 6 December 2012 12:31 (five years ago) Permalink

Those Kid Mero reviews... are they supposed to be - funny?

make like a steak and beef (dog latin), Thursday, 6 December 2012 12:44 (five years ago) Permalink

What's so spectacular about the piece is that it's in 5/4, a time signature which almost no pop music even begins to touch (besides Sunny Day Real Estate).
What's so spectacular about the piece is that it's in 5/4, a time signature which almost no pop music even begins to touch (besides Sunny Day Real Estate).
What's so spectacular about the piece is that it's in 5/4, a time signature which almost no pop music even begins to touch (besides Sunny Day Real Estate).
What's so spectacular about the piece is that it's in 5/4, a time signature which almost no pop music even begins to touch (besides Sunny Day Real Estate).
What's so spectacular about the piece is that it's in 5/4, a time signature which almost no pop music even begins to touch (besides Sunny Day Real Estate).
What's so spectacular about the piece is that it's in 5/4, a time signature which almost no pop music even begins to touch (besides Sunny Day Real Estate).
What's so spectacular about the piece is that it's in 5/4, a time signature which almost no pop music even begins to touch (besides Sunny Day Real Estate).

Tim F, Thursday, 6 December 2012 13:26 (five years ago) Permalink

dave brubeck the magic man. spreading magic in incomprehensible musical language. that nobody will ever understand. not even aliens!

scott seward, Thursday, 6 December 2012 13:52 (five years ago) Permalink

Dave Brubeck, vanguard ringmaster of total serialism

my other pug is a stillsuit (Jon Lewis), Thursday, 6 December 2012 16:00 (five years ago) Permalink

this isn't about the camille paglia piece specifically but about this amazingly stupid junior high school paper-level response to it in LAist:

http://laist.com/2012/12/06/camille_paglia_rips_hollywood_a_new.php

Camille Paglia isn't known for being polite or couching her feminist arguments in niceties. In an opinion piece for The Hollywood Reporter, she keenly rips Taylor Swift and Katy Perry brand spanking new assholes, calling the singers "insipid" and "bleached-out" and saying that they and their ilk are ruining things for young women.

The piece itself is a little scattered, beginning by talking about how Perry and Swift are so bland as to vault feminism back about 60 years, then moving on to talk about how young middle-class white girls have sex these days without being considered rebellious, and wrapping up by saying that there aren't enough roles in Hollywood for older women in their 40s and 50s.

But in between all that, Paglia makes the correct point that watered down performers like Swift and Perry don't provide particularly interesting role models for girls, insofar as they seem to be more reflections of what society wants them to be than expressions of their own true selves.

The only catch? There are always artists like Perry and Swift out there, and they will probably never go away.

See, not everyone is a Camille Paglia. Some people take their music cookie-cutter because they are cookie-cutter themselves. And here's the thing -- that's OK. Just like not everyone will grow up to be a lawyer or a doctor, not everyone has the eclectic taste of a punk rocker, or a hip-hop head, or a connoisseur of electronic music.

In other words, some people like bland because they are bland. Writing a takedown piece of stars like Perry and Swift, who are harmless for all intents and purposes, just seems kind of unnecessary.

LIKE If you are against racism (omar little), Friday, 7 December 2012 21:47 (five years ago) Permalink

the kid mero is a top 5 twitter follow

J0rdan S., Friday, 7 December 2012 21:48 (five years ago) Permalink

Oof, that "The only catch?" followed hard by an "And here's the thing" in the unnecessary takedown of the unnecessary Camilia Paglia takedown. I hate that "it's just us talking over coffee" type writing.

brio, Friday, 7 December 2012 22:30 (five years ago) Permalink

that's just one of the most incredibly stupid and condescending bullshit pieces i've seen, shouldn't be surprised she writes for VVM too.

LIKE If you are against racism (omar little), Friday, 7 December 2012 22:34 (five years ago) Permalink

Chris Redfield 1 day ago in reply to Drrickey

Idiot. At 25 years of age, it is ENTIRELY LOGICAL to reason that our society is MORE DEGENERATE THAN EVER! I see it every day, ant its PAINFUL to witness other idiots like you insist "Wrong"

When I was young THE NATIONS YOUTH DANCED TO THE MACARANA (innocent), Today children know the lyrics, the dance/song to GANGSTER RAP (soldier boy, little wayne)- If you think this is an exaggeration, if you think this has no affect on our society- YOU NEED TO OPEN YOUR DAMN EYES.

Snoop Lion (crüt), Friday, 7 December 2012 22:36 (five years ago) Permalink

When I was young THE NATIONS YOUTH DANCED TO THE MACARANA (innocent)

this is the most amazing comment ever

I loves you, PORGI (DJP), Friday, 7 December 2012 22:39 (five years ago) Permalink

also I had never looked up a translation to The Macarena's lyrics before:

[Chorus:]
Give happiness to your body Macarena
'cause your body is for giving happiness and nice things to
Give happiness to your body Macarena
Heeey,... Macarena! Aaay!
(repeat once)

Macarena has a boyfriened who's called
who's called the last name Vitorino,
and while he was taking his oath as a conscript
she was giving it to two friends ...Aaay!
(repeat once)

(Chorus)

Macarena , Macarena , Macarena
you're popular the summers in Marbella
Macarena , Macarena , Macarena
you like the guerilla excesses ...Aaay!
(repeat once)

(Chorus)

Macarena dreams of the English Tailor*
and buys the latest models
She would like living in New York
and seduce a new boyfriend... Aaay!
(repeat once)

(Chorus)
http://lyricstranslate.com
http://lyricstranslate.com

I loves you, PORGI (DJP), Friday, 7 December 2012 22:41 (five years ago) Permalink

xpost Seconding that, holy jeez.

Ned Raggett, Friday, 7 December 2012 22:42 (five years ago) Permalink

YOU NEED TO ROLL YOUR DAMN EYES

Chewshabadoo, Friday, 7 December 2012 22:44 (five years ago) Permalink

everyone should end everything with YOU NEED TO OPEN YOUR DAMN EYES.

brio, Friday, 7 December 2012 22:46 (five years ago) Permalink

Macarena has a boyfriened who's called
who's called the last name Vitorino,
and while he was taking his oath as a conscript
she was giving it to two friends ...Aaay!

this does not sound innocent at all!!!

Snoop Lion (crüt), Friday, 7 December 2012 22:47 (five years ago) Permalink

*blanches, fans self desperately*

Tomb Of Spatula (Jon Lewis), Friday, 7 December 2012 22:49 (five years ago) Permalink

You're an idiot. Any intelligent, college-educated woman knows Camille Paglia or should. Oh, I guess you are vapid too because someone told you to jsut stand there and be a girl. Wouldn't want you to create any controversy, let women have jobs, etc. Those two singing twits wouldn't be on stages now if not for strong women and feminists paving the way and instead they give away all their power as corporate shills. Women like YOU don't even know the difference, you foolish, TV babies! By the way, Katy Perry and Taylor Swift do not make MUSIC. They are performers and controlled dolls. End of story.

LIKE If you are against racism (omar little), Friday, 7 December 2012 22:50 (five years ago) Permalink

mixed signals there

LIKE If you are against racism (omar little), Friday, 7 December 2012 22:51 (five years ago) Permalink

haha that is terrible in exactly the opposite direction

I loves you, PORGI (DJP), Friday, 7 December 2012 22:51 (five years ago) Permalink

that one is totes snl drunk girl at a party

We Got Hasheem (Sufjan Grafton), Friday, 7 December 2012 23:30 (five years ago) Permalink

Seems like Swift's ever-massing target audience identify with Swift as somebody bursting out of the cocoon, fighting the good and necessary fight as each and every girl-to-woman does, regardless of Feminism-per-se's landmark victories. Paglia and her critic should see this as the obvious pitch, whether they like the songs or not. Dunno wtf deal is w Perry.

dow, Friday, 7 December 2012 23:46 (five years ago) Permalink

she has a dazzling smile

the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 7 December 2012 23:50 (five years ago) Permalink

Oof, that "The only catch?" followed hard by an "And here's the thing" in the unnecessary takedown of the unnecessary Camilia Paglia takedown. I hate that "it's just us talking over coffee" type writing.

― brio, Friday, December 7, 2012 2:30 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

otm otm otm otmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

difficult listening hour, Saturday, 8 December 2012 00:28 (five years ago) Permalink

stealing this dn before anyone else i hope

THE NATIONS YOUTH DANCED TO THE MACARANA (innocent) (zachlyon), Saturday, 8 December 2012 01:10 (five years ago) Permalink

the kid mero hate in here is totally rong

it just might not jive with you (fadanuf4erybody), Saturday, 8 December 2012 01:24 (five years ago) Permalink

^^^^

J0rdan S., Saturday, 8 December 2012 01:25 (five years ago) Permalink

you know what, i'm gonna do that one two, we all should
in protest of the way people used to be

THE NATIONS YOUTH DANCED TO THE MACARANA (innocent) (forksclovetofu), Saturday, 8 December 2012 18:06 (five years ago) Permalink

also, show me a piece by mero that has some merit?

THE NATIONS YOUTH DANCED TO THE MACARANA (innocent) (forksclovetofu), Saturday, 8 December 2012 18:07 (five years ago) Permalink

Was Mero behind the fake Ghostface blog from a few years ago?

My Heart, My soul, My World, Mahbod, My everything (lpz), Monday, 10 December 2012 00:52 (five years ago) Permalink

no, Big Ghostfase ripped off Mero's schtick

rap乒 4-tay (The Reverend), Monday, 10 December 2012 01:31 (five years ago) Permalink

also, show me a piece by mero that has some merit?

― THE NATIONS YOUTH DANCED TO THE MACARANA (innocent) (forksclovetofu), Saturday, December 8, 2012 1:07 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

@THEKIDMERO

J0rdan S., Monday, 10 December 2012 01:38 (five years ago) Permalink

i don't remember saying that

THE NATIONS YOUTH DANCED TO THE MACARANA (innocent) (zachlyon), Monday, 10 December 2012 01:52 (five years ago) Permalink

tbh im p tired of his schtick too. i did like his response to this tho

http://victory-light.blogspot.com/2012/07/top-ten-reasons-this-guy-needs-to-gtfoh.html

D-40, Monday, 10 December 2012 01:52 (five years ago) Permalink

the internet is so fucking full of so many of these identical contrived UNFILTERED ALL CAPS WILD MAN "personalities" and he's not even one of the more redeemable ones. even old school ilx troll Elli$ was funnier.

some dude, Monday, 10 December 2012 02:06 (five years ago) Permalink

none of you guys like sports, which is another hurdle before you can love the kid mero

J0rdan S., Monday, 10 December 2012 02:09 (five years ago) Permalink

i dunno something like chris ryan's old "chauncey billups" blog could be wildly entertaining to me even when i had to google a lot of the sports stuff to understand it

some dude, Monday, 10 December 2012 02:13 (five years ago) Permalink

oh i just mean his twitter account is the best when he's tweeting about sports

J0rdan S., Monday, 10 December 2012 02:13 (five years ago) Permalink

billups blog was kinda the OG tho, that shit was great

J0rdan S., Monday, 10 December 2012 02:14 (five years ago) Permalink

the all caps shit is dead, imo

D-40, Monday, 10 December 2012 02:54 (five years ago) Permalink

basically never funny

D-40, Monday, 10 December 2012 02:55 (five years ago) Permalink

seriously

some dude, Monday, 10 December 2012 03:05 (five years ago) Permalink

uh i like sports

THE NATIONS YOUTH DANCED TO THE MACARANA (innocent) (forksclovetofu), Monday, 10 December 2012 05:34 (five years ago) Permalink

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/criq.12001/full

I die each time I hear this sound: Getting dumped and the pop song

I don't know whether to copy-paste this whole thing or just highlights but fyi it starts with Nick Hornby

-

Other songs are angrier, raging against the dumper, but still indicative of a dumpee with a profoundly unhealed heart. ‘Damn your love, damn your lies’, sings Stevie Nicks on Fleetwood Mac's ‘The Chain’ (1977). ‘Song for the Dumped’ (1997) by Ben Folds Five, similarly bitter, is dominated by its chorus:

Well fuck you too
Give me my money back
Give me my money back
You bitch
I want my money back
(And don't forget to give me back my black T-shirt)
Wrathful, obsessing over infuriating details, the song is directed at the dumper but dedicated (it's ‘Song for the Dumped’, after all) to the mass of the similarly dumped. I understand, the dumped call back; what a bitch! Other angry songs rail against the ex's new lover. ‘There are two people here’, Todd Trainer of post-hardcore band Shellac screams in their 2000 song ‘Prayer to God’, ‘and I want you to kill them’. The song aims its rage mostly at the new guy: ‘Fucking kill him, fucking kill him/ Kill him already, kill him’ is the refrain, cathartic and angry and totally heartbroken. These are songs for wallowing in and for shouting along to.

The angry song turned inside out becomes the I'm moving on song: singing as hopeful self-help. These songs often accompany a montage of post-dumping recuperation in a certain kind of rom-com. After being dumped yet again, Bridget Jones, for example, declares that ‘This time […] I choose vodka, and Chaka Khan’.[41] These are songs to rally to, summon your friends to, to help you forget you were ever in love in the first place. The apotheosis of the I'm moving on song is, of course, Gloria Gaynor's ‘I Will Survive’ (1978). Gaynor's lover ‘tried to hurt me with goodbye’. ‘It took all the strength I had not to fall apart’, she sings. ‘Kept tryin’ hard to mend the pieces of my broken heart’. But after ‘oh so many nights just feeling sorry for myself’ she started to think about ‘how you did me wrong’: she ‘grew strong’, and blossomed into the heroine of a disco classic.

attempt to look intentionally nerdy, awkward or (thomp), Thursday, 20 December 2012 15:40 (four years ago) Permalink

Our appetite for these songs shows no signs of waning; in fact, we seem to need these songs more and more. A recent study analysing trends in pop music over the last fifty years has concluded that songs are getting sadder: slower, longer, more often in a minor key.[49] The lyrics have become ‘more self-focused and negative’, and the music ‘sadder-sounding and more emotionally ambiguous’, wrote the article's authors, a psychologist and a sociologist.[50] We have more misery in music than ever before. The sad song, the ‘dump’ that Nicholas Udall used in the sixteenth century to describe a heavy heart, has come back to life in the brokenhearted pop song.

It was pop music that both reflected and created the experience of the 1950s adolescent, and continues to score our romantic lives. The teenager arrived at the same time as the idea of being dumped, and the adolescent dating practices of the mid century have endured: the term ‘going steady’ may not be used these days but the model of having more than one serious relationship is the Western norm. We assume the experience, the relationship, will be repeated: and if there are to be multiple such relationships they necessarily have to end, perhaps in graceless break-up by dumping.

In its intensity, but also its disposability, the pop song reflects this string of heartbreaks that we all expect to have. And yet, for all its swooning brokenheartedness, pop retains the ideal of the one true love. In its happier moments pop music promises that the cycle of falling in love and falling out of it again will eventually end, that there'll be a happy ever after. At the end of High Fidelity, Rob is back with his girlfriend Laura. He's decided to commit to the woman he loves, and it seems as though his days of being dumped are over. He begins to compile a mixtape for her: a profoundly adolescent gesture, but at least the tape is ‘full of stuff she's heard of, and full of stuff she'd play’.[51] In the film version, we get to listen in to one of the tracks on the tape: Stevie Wonder's ‘I Believe’ (1972), a song that bemoans lost love (‘Life began, then was done’) at the same time as it hopes that this new relationship will be one to last. ‘I believe’, sings Stevie, ‘when I fall in love this time it will be for ever.’ That ‘this time’ may contain within it the hint of a ‘next time’, but pop music remains endlessly, repetitively hopeful that ‘this time’ it's going to work out. If not, though, we'll press play once more and do it, all of it, all over again.

attempt to look intentionally nerdy, awkward or (thomp), Thursday, 20 December 2012 15:40 (four years ago) Permalink

xpost
i couldn't even read the annotated version.

besides Sunny Real Estate (dog latin), Thursday, 20 December 2012 15:43 (four years ago) Permalink

I keep on meaning to start a blog for the free mag 'Brighton Unsigned'. If you think you've seen bad writing, I'm afraid you ain't seen nothin' yet.

emil.y, Thursday, 20 December 2012 15:44 (four years ago) Permalink

Do provide a sample.

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 20 December 2012 15:45 (four years ago) Permalink

Seriously, it is amazing.

Hope Rudd was up next to play another solo artist to carry on the chilled theme from Newsham but she wasn't something that was quite expected. With the help of new fangled equipment at her feet, all of a sudden, what she was playing on the guitar was still playing and she was playing a different riff. With the sound of more than one person playing and the sight of one person is something that took a bit of getting used to. However, it was done brilliantly. It turns out that when a riff was played, it was temporarily recorded to harmonize with what was being played currently. Hope wasn't short of confidence either: coming across as a happy soul, she shares a few jokes and stories behind some of her songs, showing her willingness to involve the audience to be with her.

emil.y, Thursday, 20 December 2012 15:53 (four years ago) Permalink

I transcribed that myself but it is entirely as printed. Sic sic sic.

emil.y, Thursday, 20 December 2012 15:54 (four years ago) Permalink

Is that a google translation?

pandemic, Thursday, 20 December 2012 15:55 (four years ago) Permalink

The bassist from Attack Attack! used a loop pedal, huh?

besides Sunny Real Estate (dog latin), Thursday, 20 December 2012 15:55 (four years ago) Permalink

Thomp, where did you come across that article? Is that what a typical critical studies grad student (surely not a professor) is like?

grandavis, Thursday, 20 December 2012 16:01 (four years ago) Permalink

I honestly get so much joy out of that review - she has a magic box! Oh my god!

emil.y, Thursday, 20 December 2012 16:02 (four years ago) Permalink

That review is amazing. I am glad the reviewer got over her shock in time to "be with" the artist.

grandavis, Thursday, 20 December 2012 16:04 (four years ago) Permalink

Or his shock

grandavis, Thursday, 20 December 2012 16:04 (four years ago) Permalink

Our local paper would often cover my club/gig nights in their listings but always always ALWAYS wrote the name of the night as "Rouge" instead of "Rogue", even when they were quoting an email that I'd sent them. Bloody journalists.

besides Sunny Real Estate (dog latin), Thursday, 20 December 2012 16:06 (four years ago) Permalink

Mooge Rouge

emil.y, Thursday, 20 December 2012 16:10 (four years ago) Permalink

"I distinctly heard the sound of strings and yet no string players were on stage, merely a man pressing the keys on his new fangled magic piano. Naturally I fainted with shock but, upon being revived by smelling salts, I was able to appreciate his cunning application of electrickery."

Deafening silence (DL), Thursday, 20 December 2012 16:10 (four years ago) Permalink

emil.y I am still back on that first sentence of the excerpt you transcribed and will probably be staying there until after Christmas

GIMME SOME REGGAE (DJP), Thursday, 20 December 2012 16:11 (four years ago) Permalink

thanking u emil.y that is just some mind-expanding stuff. The palpable struggle!

the clown's reflection is incorrect (Jon Lewis), Thursday, 20 December 2012 16:21 (four years ago) Permalink

Thomp, where did you come across that article? Is that what a typical critical studies grad student (surely not a professor) is like?

I came across it because I just turned down my Ph.D. place and now I am temping for the publisher /:

Katherine Hunt is completing her PhD at the London Consortium on the invention and reception of change-ringing in seventeenth-century England. She is a reviews editor for Critical Quarterly and a founding editor of Teller, a magazine of stories.

attempt to look intentionally nerdy, awkward or (thomp), Thursday, 20 December 2012 16:26 (four years ago) Permalink

Sorry about the Ph.D. (though maybe for the best?). I guess if you are a reviews editor your payment is getting an article published?

grandavis, Thursday, 20 December 2012 16:34 (four years ago) Permalink

More excerpts from Brighton Unsigned please! Please please please

it's all fuck what sit says, we'll do our own thing (Matt #2), Thursday, 20 December 2012 16:39 (four years ago) Permalink

the invention and reception of change-ringing in seventeenth-century England.

Interested

woof, Thursday, 20 December 2012 16:45 (four years ago) Permalink

posts v much in etc

attempt to look intentionally nerdy, awkward or (thomp), Friday, 21 December 2012 10:15 (four years ago) Permalink

From that ancient Limp Bizkit site: http://niggab.tripod.com/review.html

besides Sunny Real Estate (dog latin), Friday, 21 December 2012 12:21 (four years ago) Permalink

so then towards the end of the set, fred goes, "i gotta take a shit right now," and he gets up on the toilet and lethal makes this fart noise and a cardboard cut out of posh spice pops up out of the toilet. fred goes "how many of you like the spice girls?" and like everyone boos. then he goes "how many of you girls would like to beat the fuck out of the spice girls?" and you hear like this huge feminine roar. then he says "how many of you fellas would like a blowjob from the spice girls?" ive never heard so many men cry out in my life. except for that one time in al's mom's bedroom. but anyway, then he goes, "well i just want to flush this bitch cos the spice girls suck!" and there is this huge roar of approval.

Oh the nostalgia.

Ned Raggett, Friday, 21 December 2012 13:35 (four years ago) Permalink

feel like its been a loooooong time since someone posted something on the good music writing thread. or was that thread locked and buried. r.i.p.

scott seward, Friday, 21 December 2012 13:40 (four years ago) Permalink

further proof that the late 90s had the highest shit to good music ratio. FUIUD.

besides Sunny Real Estate (dog latin), Friday, 21 December 2012 14:18 (four years ago) Permalink

imo that ratio just rises every year, as more and more music is made all the time

nobody's bitch speaks again (some dude), Friday, 21 December 2012 14:44 (four years ago) Permalink

it's all about shit listening vs good listening imo

Captain Humberbantz (Noodle Vague), Friday, 21 December 2012 14:47 (four years ago) Permalink

ive never heard so many men cry out in my life. except for that one time in al's mom's bedroom.

some dude you gon' take that?

THE NATIONS YOUTH DANCED TO THE MACARANA (innocent) (forksclovetofu), Friday, 21 December 2012 22:34 (four years ago) Permalink

lol @ zadie smith

I am addressing this to my fellow Britons in particular. Fellow Britons! Those of you, that is, who were fortunate enough to take the first generation of the amphetamine ecstasy and yet experience none of the adverse, occasionally lethal reactions we now know others suffered—yes, for you people I have a question. Was that joy?

I am especially interested to hear from anyone who happened to be in the Fabric club, near the old Smithfield meat market, on a night sometime in the year 1999 (I’m sorry I can’t be more specific) when the DJ mixed “Can I Kick It?” and then “Smells Like Teen Spirit” into the deep house track he had been seeming to play exclusively for the previous four hours. I myself was wandering out of the cavernous unisex (!) toilets wishing I could find my friend Sarah, or if not her, my friend Warren, or if not him, anyone who would take pity on a girl who had taken and was about to come up on ecstasy who had lost everyone and everything, including her handbag. I stumbled back into the fray.

Most of the men were topless, and most of the women, like me, wore strange aprons, fashionable at the time, that covered just the front of one’s torso, and only remained decent by means of a few weak-looking strings tied in dainty bows behind. I pushed through this crowd of sweaty bare backs, despairing, wondering where in a super club one might bed down for the night (the stairs? the fire exit?). But everything I tried to look at quickly shattered and arranged itself in a series of patterned fragments, as if I were living in a kaleidoscope. Where was I trying to get to anyway? There was no longer any “bar” or “chill-out zone”—there was only dance floor. All was dance floor. Everybody danced. I stood still, oppressed on all sides by dancing, quite sure I was about to go out of my mind.

Then suddenly I could hear Q-Tip—blessed Q-Tip!—not a synthesizer, not a vocoder, but Q-Tip, with his human voice, rapping over a human beat. And the top of my skull opened to let human Q-Tip in, and a rail-thin man with enormous eyes reached across a sea of bodies for my hand. He kept asking me the same thing over and over: You feeling it? I was. My ridiculous heels were killing me, I was terrified I might die, yet I felt simultaneously overwhelmed with delight that “Can I Kick It?” should happen to be playing at this precise moment in the history of the world, and was now morphing into “Smells Like Teen Spirit.” I took the man’s hand. The top of my head flew away. We danced and danced. We gave ourselves up to joy.

puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Wednesday, 26 December 2012 19:42 (four years ago) Permalink

idk much about her but everything of hers that I have read is completely embarrassing

puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Wednesday, 26 December 2012 19:46 (four years ago) Permalink

LOL where did that piece run?

Q-Tip—blessed Q-Tip! (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 26 December 2012 19:53 (four years ago) Permalink

wow

Matt Armstrong, Wednesday, 26 December 2012 19:56 (four years ago) Permalink

longest "Missed Connections" ad ever

Captain Humberbantz (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 26 December 2012 19:59 (four years ago) Permalink

i like that bellows portrait at least

ILX is not a non-profit — we are just not profitable (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 26 December 2012 20:03 (four years ago) Permalink

The New Yorker piece she wrote about Joni Mitchell was even worse.

誤訳侮辱, Wednesday, 26 December 2012 21:17 (four years ago) Permalink

blessed Q-Tip!

J0rdan S., Wednesday, 26 December 2012 22:28 (four years ago) Permalink

And the top of my skull opened to let human Q-Tip in, and a rail-thin man with enormous eyes reached across a sea of bodies for my hand. He kept asking me the same thing over and over: You feeling it? I was.

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/28505/thumbs/s-HITCHENS-WATERBOARDED-large.jpg

the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 26 December 2012 22:32 (four years ago) Permalink

lool

mookieproof, Wednesday, 26 December 2012 22:33 (four years ago) Permalink

Glad we mentioned her incomprehensible Joni article. I held it in front of a mirror and it still made no sense.

the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 26 December 2012 22:36 (four years ago) Permalink

I want her to explain Dave Brubeck's use of meter to me

Q-Tip—blessed Q-Tip! (Jon Lewis), Thursday, 27 December 2012 00:25 (four years ago) Permalink

Ah yes, Q-Tip--blessed Q-tip! And his dog, who plays upon the fife! And Ali, the mussulman!

drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Thursday, 27 December 2012 04:19 (four years ago) Permalink

human Q-Tip

puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Thursday, 27 December 2012 06:06 (four years ago) Permalink

Or a heavyset grown man, smoking a cigarette in the rain, with a soggy mustache, above which, a surprise—the keen eyes, snub nose, and cherub mouth of his own eight-year-old self.

Surprise! His mouth is above his mustache!

Mordy, Thursday, 27 December 2012 06:09 (four years ago) Permalink

...and a round little belly that shook when he laughed like a bowl full of jelly...

set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 27 December 2012 07:02 (four years ago) Permalink

yeah that sentence, wtf. is this guy meant to be some elaborate mr. potato head? xpost

charlie h, Thursday, 27 December 2012 08:55 (four years ago) Permalink

i like those aprons.

t_s (how's life), Thursday, 27 December 2012 11:16 (four years ago) Permalink

that zadie smith article is just beyond words. the most guardian paragraph i've ever read.

Heterocyclic ring ring (LocalGarda), Thursday, 27 December 2012 11:47 (four years ago) Permalink

I have to say I can’t remember these aprons.

Chewshabadoo, Thursday, 27 December 2012 11:55 (four years ago) Permalink

i find it hard to believe the records before nirvana/q-tip were "deep house"

Heterocyclic ring ring (LocalGarda), Thursday, 27 December 2012 12:22 (four years ago) Permalink

unless it was laurent garnier.

Heterocyclic ring ring (LocalGarda), Thursday, 27 December 2012 12:22 (four years ago) Permalink

but it was probably fatboy slim, right?

Heterocyclic ring ring (LocalGarda), Thursday, 27 December 2012 12:22 (four years ago) Permalink

She was almost certainly at the so-called 'Muscle Mary' gay night (going on her description) whose music policy bore little resemblance to Fabric's usual Friday and Saturday night fare. I never saw any evidence of it whatsoever but the club certainly had the reputation of being a bit grope-y at the weekend. The Muscle Mary night was OK but my gay friends saw it as being a bit body fascistic - which it probably was given how prevalent this was in London gay clubbing pre-Pop Starz etc, especially for them to single it out. I think I had strangers referring to me as a fucking mess at this night, which was cool, as it's only what I'd get in straight clubs in the same area.

Anyone with any sense went out clubbing in Brixton.

<old man talk/>

Doran, Thursday, 27 December 2012 12:30 (four years ago) Permalink

I have to say I can’t remember these aprons.

what she's describing is a backless top with a string tie, they were very popular going-out-clothes in the late 90s, the 'classic' one would be made of shiny gold-coloured material.

c sharp major, Thursday, 27 December 2012 12:39 (four years ago) Permalink

If that's the case, it would have been DTPM in its final re-incarnation, which IMO wasn't a patch on its stint at The End - it felt snootier, more limiting. (It wasn't pre-Popstarz, though; that's been around since 1995.) I have a vivid memory of gurning to Deep Dish, and a stranger asking if I was having a nasty turn, ahem.

Anyhow, I quite like the Zadie Smith piece! I had a similar moment at Pacha in 1995: lost, alienated and fucked up, not feeling the music, then being rescued by the unexpected entry of a recognisably human element. (In my case: four hours of Jon Pleased Wimmin followed by, of all things, "Live Forever".)

mike t-diva, Thursday, 27 December 2012 13:04 (four years ago) Permalink

Yeah, I thought that as soon as I wrote it, I meant more the effect that Pop Starz had on gay clubbing in London, which I'm sure you remember was a predictably cliched experience for the most part until the turn of the century. Pop Starz was such a big deal that it had almost as much of an influence on straight, student-y clubs as it did on gay clubs imho.

Doran, Thursday, 27 December 2012 13:09 (four years ago) Permalink

I don't mind Zadie Smith too much either. A lot of shit vented at her seems to be based on her age, gender and race, and in turn what this says about the social class of her readers, rather than her ability to write. (She's a fantastic prose stylist if not too hot on plot but she's clearly leagues ahead of most of her contemporaries.)

I'm sure she'd be the first to admit that she doesn't really give a fuck if she's mistaken hi-energy for deep house.

I was watching 'Stigma' - a short made for TV, ghost story originally aired by the BBC in 1975, released as part of the amazing BFI Ghost Stories For Christmas box set recently - and only just managed to internalise my rage that the 12-year-old female character was sitting in her room listening to Their Satanic Majesties' Request by the Stones. "But it's just so unbelievable that she would be doing this!" I fumed to myself, oblivious that it was simply a plot device and no one - who isn't mad - gives a shit about this stuff.

I wouldn't be so forgiving about the Joni Mitchell piece however.

Doran, Thursday, 27 December 2012 13:41 (four years ago) Permalink

I'm sure she'd be the first to admit that she doesn't really give a fuck if she's mistaken hi-energy for deep house.

it's all just music in the end really.

Heterocyclic ring ring (LocalGarda), Thursday, 27 December 2012 13:49 (four years ago) Permalink

Her first two novels and her first essay collection have moments (I liked the essay about Obama and the English language), which made the Mitchell one all the more cloddish.

the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 27 December 2012 13:51 (four years ago) Permalink

XP: Ha ha ha!

Doran, Thursday, 27 December 2012 13:54 (four years ago) Permalink

to be fair, a LOT of novelists can make you cringe when they write about music. even when characters in a novel talk about music it can make me cringe. music is funny like that. what makes me cringe in novels is when the music talk is obviously in the writer's voice and not the character's voice. sometimes its REALLY obviously just a way to talk about stuff they like.

scott seward, Thursday, 27 December 2012 14:50 (four years ago) Permalink

totally otm

Albee Thousand (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 27 December 2012 14:51 (four years ago) Permalink

Yep. All the music talk in George Pelecanos books is like that. Totally intrusive and artificial.

誤訳侮辱, Thursday, 27 December 2012 14:52 (four years ago) Permalink

What are the best chapters on music from novels? The stuff from American Psycho springs to mind.

Frederik B, Thursday, 27 December 2012 14:55 (four years ago) Permalink

But that works because it's played as absurd. There's quite a bit of straight writing about music in fiction that reads very similar.

maura, Thursday, 27 December 2012 14:57 (four years ago) Permalink

Anyway I think all us music writers should start petitioning fiction editors to let us have a crack at short story writing. Tit for tat, right?

maura, Thursday, 27 December 2012 14:58 (four years ago) Permalink

my dad reads this mystery guy john sandford and he was telling me about one of his books where the hero spends the entire novel thinking of the best 100 songs to put on an ipod. they don't make mysteries like they used to...(my dad thought it wss cool though.) (mystery/suspense guys are always throwing in the names of blues/jazz people they like. especially newer singers who they feel should get more recognition or something.)

http://richardlaymonkills88710.yuku.com/topic/1561/t/List-of-top-100-songs-from-John-Sanford-s-quot-Broken-Prey.html

scott seward, Thursday, 27 December 2012 14:58 (four years ago) Permalink

OTM: Douglas Adams' effusive love for Dire Straits annoyed me even when I was a child.

Ima Pay Close Attention To Your Post (Doran), Thursday, 27 December 2012 14:59 (four years ago) Permalink

This is a thing in fiction full stop though right? I'm not a fan of Iain Banks per se but his novel about a retired rock star Espedaire Street is particularly bad iirc.

Ima Pay Close Attention To Your Post (Doran), Thursday, 27 December 2012 15:03 (four years ago) Permalink

Several xps.

Ima Pay Close Attention To Your Post (Doran), Thursday, 27 December 2012 15:04 (four years ago) Permalink

In its review of Ian Rankin's latest novel Private Eye said Rankin always seemed to be applying to be editor of Mojo between the lines. Novelists who love music, especially male ones, have a hard job disguising their fandom so they try to proselytise for their cult heroes, which is kind of sweet but mostly jarring and distracting. Zadie S doesn't do that in her novels - until recently I assumed she wasn't very interested in music - so I don't know what explains this recent burst of gushy non-fiction.

Deafening silence (DL), Thursday, 27 December 2012 15:14 (four years ago) Permalink

my dad reads this mystery guy john sandford and he was telling me about one of his books where the hero spends the entire novel thinking of the best 100 songs to put on an ipod. they don't make mysteries like they used to...(my dad thought it wss cool though.) (mystery/suspense guys are always throwing in the names of blues/jazz people they like. especially newer singers who they feel should get more recognition or something.)

http://richardlaymonkills88710.yuku.com/topic/1561/t/List-of-top-100-songs-from-John-Sanford-s-quot-Broken-Prey.html

― scott seward, Thursday, December 27, 2012 9:58 AM (29 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I dig Sandford cuz his stuff takes place in the twin cities where I grew up and is full of local detail. He didn't belabor music in the even or eight books I read. Ian Rankin, though, he namechecks way too much music.

Q-Tip—blessed Q-Tip! (Jon Lewis), Thursday, 27 December 2012 15:33 (four years ago) Permalink

i still have a long-brewing tumblr post about how some of the the music writing in 'visit from the good squad' is bullshit

finally rich, fun-packed, fulfilling (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 27 December 2012 15:35 (four years ago) Permalink

and never forget the watchmen

https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/530435136/250px-Ozymandias.PNG

"Oh, and I've heard some interesting new music from Jamaica ... a sort of hybrid between electronic music and reggae. It's a fascinating study in the new musical forms generated when a largely pre-technological culture is given access to modern recording techniques about the technological preconceptions that we've allowed to accumulate, limiting out vision. It's called dub music. You'd like it, I'm sure."

finally rich, fun-packed, fulfilling (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 27 December 2012 15:38 (four years ago) Permalink

lol

Q-Tip—blessed Q-Tip! (Jon Lewis), Thursday, 27 December 2012 15:41 (four years ago) Permalink

I really, really enjoy Zadie Smith's books column in Harpers. I think she's just kind of out of her element writing about music. In any case, "I didn't get X thing that most people think is great, but then one day I did" is such an uninteresting and self-involved narrative.

drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Thursday, 27 December 2012 15:41 (four years ago) Permalink

Really? I don't mind that narrative too much. For instance I enjoyed the. part in the Will Friedwald book on (mostly pre-rock style) American popular singers where he talks about dismissing Bob Dylan for years and gradually turning around so that he now owns and apparently listens to every album

Albee Thousand (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 27 December 2012 16:23 (four years ago) Permalink

stephen king and his springsteen/bob dylan worship to thread

set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 27 December 2012 16:23 (four years ago) Permalink

On the other hand King weaving Angel of Morning into Langoliers still creeps me out. Oh and he used Eli's Coming in...the Stand maybe? I can't remember. That was pretty cool too.

set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 27 December 2012 16:25 (four years ago) Permalink

Feel like I missed my chance to discuss the otherwise perfectly good Charles Willeford novel that was almost ruined when the narrator picked up a guitar and live-blogged his emotional state whilst playing. Cockfighter maybe.

Albee Thousand (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 27 December 2012 16:28 (four years ago) Permalink

Also, Hurting, isn't that the way the mind works: some stuff you like right away and some stuff requires some time and effort? Me, I'm still waiting for my Grateful Dead moment

Albee Thousand (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 27 December 2012 16:30 (four years ago) Permalink

The problem is that the J Mitchell piece is so washy it's not really about that experience, or about Mitchell, or about ANYTHING.

Q-Tip—blessed Q-Tip! (Jon Lewis), Thursday, 27 December 2012 17:15 (four years ago) Permalink

ysi

puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Thursday, 27 December 2012 17:19 (four years ago) Permalink

OK, still can't read that article but the description and the word "epiphany" in the title are worrisome.

Albee Thousand (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 27 December 2012 17:34 (four years ago) Permalink

i still have a long-brewing tumblr post about how some of the the music writing in 'visit from the good squad' is bullshit

yesssss

emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Thursday, 27 December 2012 17:58 (four years ago) Permalink

absolutely.

s.clover, Thursday, 27 December 2012 18:25 (four years ago) Permalink

and then on the "novelists doing it right" side, there's of course this:


“So?” is Säure’s customary answer to that one. “Which would you rather do? The point is,” cutting off Gustav’s usually indignant scream, “a person feels good listening to Rossini. All you feel like listening to Beethoven is going out and invading Poland. Ode to Joy indeed. The man didn’t even have a sense of humor. I tell you,” shaking his skinny old fist, “there is more of the Sublime in the snare-drum part to La Gazza Ladra than in the whole Ninth Symphony. With Rossini, the whole point is that lovers always get together, isolation is overcome, and like it or not that is the one great centripetal movement of the World. Through the machineries of greed, pettiness, and the abuse of power, love occurs. All the shit is transmuted to gold. The walls are breached, the balconies are scaled—listen!” It was a night in early May, and the final bombardment of Berlin was in progress. Säure had to shout his head off. “The Italian girl is in Algiers, the Barber’s in the crockery, the magpie’s stealing everything in sight! The World is rushing together. …”

s.clover, Thursday, 27 December 2012 18:30 (four years ago) Permalink

I think the thing that bugged me most about Zadie Smith's Joni Mitchell piece was all of her anxiety and insecurity about not being able to understand and appreciate music in the same way she does literature. That idea might've made for a worthwhile article on its own, but since the article was basically billed as "Zadie on Joni," I was disappointed that Smith seemed too afraid to capture anything interesting about her ostensible subject.

Sax Blatterday (jaymc), Thursday, 27 December 2012 18:42 (four years ago) Permalink

The problem is that the J Mitchell piece is so washy it's not really about that experience, or about Mitchell, or about ANYTHING.

^Yeah, basically.

Sax Blatterday (jaymc), Thursday, 27 December 2012 18:43 (four years ago) Permalink

I think the depiction of the punk band and its surrounding scene in Goon Squad's early chapters is unusually believable but the later stuff about the outcast singer-songwriter redeeming a plasticised world through the magic of authenticity kind of undoes that good work. Novelists have a bad epiphany addiction when it comes to describing the music itself rather than the characters involved in making it.

Deafening silence (DL), Thursday, 27 December 2012 18:47 (four years ago) Permalink

Bad epiphany addiction good way to put it.

Where were you Whiney when the pinefox did his slow liveblog reading of that book? Looking forward to tumblr post

Albee Thousand (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 27 December 2012 19:00 (four years ago) Permalink

feel like all my examples of "novelists doing it right" = "novelists on classical"

emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Thursday, 27 December 2012 20:28 (four years ago) Permalink

Zadie, you listen to Joni, but you can't HEAR Joni

drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Thursday, 27 December 2012 20:38 (four years ago) Permalink

The Music Man?

Albee Thousand (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 27 December 2012 20:41 (four years ago) Permalink

is this the thread where they talk about the vice on pitchfork piece? which thread is that?

Dominique, Thursday, 27 December 2012 20:41 (four years ago) Permalink

Ah yes, Q-Tip--blessed Q-tip! And his dog, who plays upon the fife! And Ali, the mussulman!

― drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Wednesday, December 26, 2012 10:19 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ahaha

have a sandwich or ice cream sandwich (Jordan), Thursday, 27 December 2012 20:47 (four years ago) Permalink

someone brought a rock 'n' roll mystery novel into the store today! weird. it originally even came with a cd of original songs to go along with the book! its looks horrible.

scott seward, Thursday, 27 December 2012 21:50 (four years ago) Permalink

burn it

set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 27 December 2012 21:51 (four years ago) Permalink

le guin novel that originally came with a tape of original new age folk in a made-up language is really good though if you ever see it.

scott seward, Thursday, 27 December 2012 21:51 (four years ago) Permalink

it even says A ROCK & ROLL MYSTERY on the cover. worst genre ever.

scott seward, Thursday, 27 December 2012 21:52 (four years ago) Permalink

for people who hate music and reading

set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 27 December 2012 21:52 (four years ago) Permalink

I always wanted to read one of those lord iffy boatrace books by bruce dickenson of iron maiden

Andrew WKRP (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 27 December 2012 21:57 (four years ago) Permalink

and my immediate response to maura's thing is: what happened this year? what about all those other years?

scott seward, Thursday, 27 December 2012 21:57 (four years ago) Permalink

i'd gladly write an overview of "all those other years" if asked

maura, Thursday, 27 December 2012 21:58 (four years ago) Permalink

see, i was gonna point that out in the spirit of equal time: musicians often write horrible novels.

x-post

scott seward, Thursday, 27 December 2012 21:58 (four years ago) Permalink

Can that genre be worse than sudoku/crossword mysteries? Probably.

Albee Thousand (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 27 December 2012 21:59 (four years ago) Permalink

rock 'n' roll mystery = Inherent Vice, more or less

Brad C., Thursday, 27 December 2012 21:59 (four years ago) Permalink

i'm just cranky when it comes to music writing. and it makes me sad that this thread and threads like them are bumped waaaaaaaay more than any good music writing threads on here.

scott seward, Thursday, 27 December 2012 21:59 (four years ago) Permalink

wait, cat mysteries might be the worst.

scott seward, Thursday, 27 December 2012 22:00 (four years ago) Permalink

Do you have a lord iffy boatrace book skot? If so I would buy it

Andrew WKRP (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 27 December 2012 22:00 (four years ago) Permalink

i'm just cranky when it comes to music writing. and it makes me sad that this thread and threads like them are bumped waaaaaaaay more than any good music writing threads on here.

i bumped the thread for great music writing just a few hours ago and yet everyone INCLUDING YOU, SCOTT!, prefers to be in here

lex pretend, Thursday, 27 December 2012 22:01 (four years ago) Permalink

but i blame myself too cuz when i read a horrible rockcrit thing what do i do first? link to it here, probably. which is fun for a minute and might have been instructive at some point but you could kinda do it every day of the week if you wanted to.

scott seward, Thursday, 27 December 2012 22:02 (four years ago) Permalink

(i really liked that article maura)

lex pretend, Thursday, 27 December 2012 22:02 (four years ago) Permalink

sorry lex! i'll check it out. just got home from work. been shoveling snow.

scott seward, Thursday, 27 December 2012 22:02 (four years ago) Permalink

(thank you)

maura, Thursday, 27 December 2012 22:02 (four years ago) Permalink

has anyone read any mick farren books? sci-fi stuff, right? maybe those are good. kinky friedman, i read one of his once. not bad.

scott seward, Thursday, 27 December 2012 22:03 (four years ago) Permalink

i bumped the thread for great music writing just a few hours ago and yet everyone INCLUDING YOU, SCOTT!, prefers to be in here

I just read the beginning of that piece because I was surprised it wasn't Maura's NPR piece and I really, really hated it

Maura's NPR piece is super rad

GIMME SOME REGGAE (DJP), Thursday, 27 December 2012 22:15 (four years ago) Permalink

has anyone read any mick farren books? sci-fi stuff, right? maybe those are good. kinky friedman, i read one of his once. not bad.

I read one of Mick Farren's vampire books, it was okay

GIMME SOME REGGAE (DJP), Thursday, 27 December 2012 22:15 (four years ago) Permalink

the only good music writing is on ilm

Mordy, Thursday, 27 December 2012 22:16 (four years ago) Permalink

god help us all

crüt, Thursday, 27 December 2012 22:20 (four years ago) Permalink

Really excellent piece by Maura.

The only thing i wished for was a mention of the rise of the kind of outrageously inept listicle we keep coming back to on this thread. EG the Village Voice jazz thing with Brubeck his insane rhythms fly at u face. It functions the same way as the contrarian/provocative listicle (ppl will click to get pissed off cuz ppl sorta like getting pissed off) except the provocation here is the abysmal quality of the writing itself. There's no way the VV didn't know what was gonna happen with that jazz thing and they sure got their clicks out of it.

Q-Tip—blessed Q-Tip! (Jon Lewis), Thursday, 27 December 2012 22:25 (four years ago) Permalink

it seemed like a signal moment to me

Q-Tip—blessed Q-Tip! (Jon Lewis), Thursday, 27 December 2012 22:26 (four years ago) Permalink

there were a whole bunch of things in this month's wire that were pretty awful

attempt to look intentionally nerdy, awkward or (thomp), Thursday, 27 December 2012 22:26 (four years ago) Permalink

visit from the goon squad, though, enh

attempt to look intentionally nerdy, awkward or (thomp), Thursday, 27 December 2012 22:26 (four years ago) Permalink

Moorcock was great at putting pop music in his sci-fi

If I was a carpenter, and you were a douchebag (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 27 December 2012 22:34 (four years ago) Permalink

http://perpetua.tumblr.com/post/38971850406/critical-discoursin-in-the-social-media-era

Don't know if this is too short to be considered, but it is pretty laughable and lacking self-awareness.

this will surprise many (Nicole), Thursday, 27 December 2012 22:37 (four years ago) Permalink

well consider the source

lex pretend, Thursday, 27 December 2012 22:45 (four years ago) Permalink

I always wanted to read a moorcock book because of his blue oyster cult association

Inherent Vice rules so hard

Andrew WKRP (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 27 December 2012 23:01 (four years ago) Permalink

his book starring Hawkwind is better in theory than in practice, unfortunately (I blame his cowriter tbh)

If I was a carpenter, and you were a douchebag (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 27 December 2012 23:04 (four years ago) Permalink

nice

mookieproof, Thursday, 27 December 2012 23:08 (four years ago) Permalink

the bits where Hawkwind is rockin-to-save-the-universe are pretty entertaining tbh, it's the rest of the book (plot, characterization, prose, etc.) that fails miserably

If I was a carpenter, and you were a douchebag (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 27 December 2012 23:13 (four years ago) Permalink

Rankin always seemed to be applying to be editor of Mojo between the lines.

Peter Robinson had one mystery where the victim was a writer for Mojo.

tokyo rosemary, Thursday, 27 December 2012 23:35 (four years ago) Permalink

I guess there are also The CosbyCosloy Mysteries.

Albee Thousand (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 27 December 2012 23:37 (four years ago) Permalink

Maura that was a great and depressing article

Andrew WKRP (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 27 December 2012 23:59 (four years ago) Permalink

I always wanted to read one of those lord iffy boatrace books by bruce dickenson of iron maiden

clumsy Tom Sharpe pastiche with extra scatology iirc

I can get behind Christopher Brookmyre having a 40-something Glaswegian grandmother accidentally wandering into a Twilight Singers gig at King Tut's Wah Wah Hut and through the power of Dulli realising her domestic life is terrible and she should become a two-fisted international merc

( ͡° ͜ʖ͡°) (sic), Friday, 28 December 2012 01:16 (four years ago) Permalink

lol dulli is powerful, but i'm not sure it's in quite that way

mookieproof, Friday, 28 December 2012 01:27 (four years ago) Permalink

clumsy Tom Sharpe pastiche with extra scatology iirc

so recommended?

Andrew WKRP (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 28 December 2012 01:34 (four years ago) Permalink

I didn't read A Visit From The Goon Squad as a "rock novel", certainly not in the usual (horrible) sense. The outsider guy tips into a moment of mass acclaim, oneness for the goodness' sake, but once in, it will all gradually be different, he will be digested in history and memories like everything else, whether or not he actually cares to try to cultivate his peak-niche as a bum Dylan or super-Jandek or whatever. He and his audience shall be released for a New York minute and some afterglow, but other characters' manipulations are crucial. It's hardly a purist thing, from the view we're offered.

dow, Friday, 28 December 2012 01:54 (four years ago) Permalink

time for maura to write a novel imo

mookieproof, Friday, 28 December 2012 01:59 (four years ago) Permalink

I agree!

this will surprise many (Nicole), Friday, 28 December 2012 02:03 (four years ago) Permalink

Mick Farren's The Texts of Festival was a satire: like when the Shogun banished Westerners, and then centuries later, they came back and discovered the crypto-Christians, who had secretly practiced the rituals of their converted ancestors, but no longer knew what the words meant. In Farren's novel, the ancient Rock Gods are worshiped, especially via the legacy of the Woodstock Album (memorized, handed down): the Fish Cheer is a sacred mystery, etc. Seemed good at the time, but overall he was better as a musician.

dow, Friday, 28 December 2012 02:06 (four years ago) Permalink

Maybe the reason people spend more time on the bad music writing thread than the good one is that it is easier to agree on what is bad, kind of an "I against my brother, my brothers and I against my cousins, then my cousins and I against strangers" kind of thing.

Albee Thousand (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 28 December 2012 05:17 (four years ago) Permalink

also thought the article maura linked to about gawker and linkbait was good.

Tome Cruise (Matt P), Friday, 28 December 2012 05:24 (four years ago) Permalink

OK, just clicked through to the observer article she linked, thanks.

Albee Thousand (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 28 December 2012 05:42 (four years ago) Permalink

i would buy a maura novel

ILX is not a non-profit — we are just not profitable (forksclovetofu), Friday, 28 December 2012 05:57 (four years ago) Permalink

I am no longer writing about music. I am sure that has a lot to do with things changing.

Maura, let me know when you want to interview me for the profound impact my absence has caused.

Loud guitars shit all over "Bette Davis Eyes" (NYCNative), Friday, 28 December 2012 16:18 (four years ago) Permalink

too soon. We will all need the perspective that only comes with time.

Q-Tip—blessed Q-Tip! (Jon Lewis), Friday, 28 December 2012 16:29 (four years ago) Permalink

I do wonder if music criticism matters anymore though, and no, I am not trolling.

Technology has kept making it easier for music consumers to check out things before then purchase them without the filter of an expert endorsement. Radio meant you could hear the single though a lot of fringe music and even album cuts from mainstream fare would escape those not fortunate enough to be in close proximity to a college station.

The advance of cable television and the music video still pretty much limited things to the single and with a few exceptions, it was even more difficult for listeners to get a feel for the non-mainstream material and/or genres.

Record labels tried everything they could to get consumers to hear shit - flexidiscs are a perfect example of this mentality. It was easy to get free cassettes at record stores, free CD samplers, and many music publications would make money not by writing about music, but offering free actual music that their readers could listen to.

But now, a listener can stream an entire album - often legally, though it's not difficult to do so illegally - sometimes right after it comes out, sometimes even before. Entire genres of music and subgenres that would never get radio or video play are at the fingertips of anyone who wants to check it out.

In 1971, I would not be able to find out about Sir Lord Baltimore unless the band happened to open up for someone bigger whom I knew (say, Black Sabbath) or I read what Lester Bangs had to say. People read bylines because once you found a writer who you trusted, you would be more likely to use that writer to help you make your purchases.

In modern times, I don't need to look for Phil Freeman's byline. I just need to find the album myself and listen to it. A "responsible" music buyer would purchase things that they liked; someone else might keep the MP3s on their computer or maybe burn a CD.

When it comes to criticism, people still do rely on it when it comes to things that they cannot experience themselves. It's why people still flock to see reviews of a new iPhone if they are not an early adopter who will have it already. Even movie reviews are still relevant since it's a lot more difficult to check out, say, The Hobbit (and you certainly won't in real IMAX quality) then it is the new Witchcraft CD.

Now, I am a Luddite. I still buy CDs and even though I can check things out for free online to decide what I want to buy, I prefer to read the opinions of people in magazines and on this message board - but also in my Facebook feed - and will make purchases based on that even without hearing the music, or very much of it. But I don't count. I'm an old guy who is stuck in his ways. Hell, when a publicist sends me an album download, I will listen to it but either delete it or buy a physical CD (or in rare cases, an LP) because that's what makes sense to me. I have an iPod (that I inherited when my wife upgraded hers) but when I take a road trip, I am more likely to grab some CDs for the car than load up my iPod, even though the sound quality is identical and it's a lot more convenient.

But I am a dinosaur. My way is silly (by my own logic!) and few people even my own age still act like I do, let alone younger people who might have thousands of songs at their on-demand disposal but who don't own a single piece of plastic or winyl or magnetic take with even a second of it imprinted upon it.

It's a sobering thought, but I felt this way towards the end of my writing "career" - why does anyone need to trust me when they can trust their own ears? Why does anyone need to trust any of you?

Loud guitars shit all over "Bette Davis Eyes" (NYCNative), Friday, 28 December 2012 16:43 (four years ago) Permalink

i started writing something LONG. who knows when i'll finish. probably just throw it on the blog eventually. i have no desire to write for music mags or wherever. i really do have a pretty bad attitude about most music writing right now. and music magazines. and websites. and blogs. and everything. it'll pass.

scott seward, Friday, 28 December 2012 16:44 (four years ago) Permalink

"I do wonder if music criticism matters anymore though, and no, I am not trolling."

i don't think it does. good writing matters. good writers. i just don't think the majority of people writing about music online or in mags have a great burning desire to write about music! and it shows. its something to do until they can do something else. and that was kinda the case forever, but it just seems increasingly space-filling stuff. could be anything. pictures of kitties. whatever.

scott seward, Friday, 28 December 2012 16:46 (four years ago) Permalink

but see it's not like ppl really ARE foraging around and listening to everything and letting their ears decide. They're still relying on filters and convenient shorthand approaches and traveling memes.

Q-Tip—blessed Q-Tip! (Jon Lewis), Friday, 28 December 2012 16:48 (four years ago) Permalink

Also, when I find some quality television program, I like reading reviews online even though I had already consumed the show myself. I equate this to how I will read the recaps of sporting events that I attended or watched. And now that I think about it, I will sometimes listen to some music and then go about looking for reviews.

I do this because I want to see if I missed anything, or to see a new perspective on the art that maybe I missed because of my own biases or vantage point.

Still, I wonder how many people are like me. And this doesn't involve buying something to read the criticism, like a magazine or whatever. If I had to directly pay for it, I probably don't do this. And the indirect ways I pay for it, with advertising I see or click or that pops up or makes me watch before I can get to the content I want to see or through page views that might make someone a tenth of a cent, aren't a huge concern to me.

Loud guitars shit all over "Bette Davis Eyes" (NYCNative), Friday, 28 December 2012 16:49 (four years ago) Permalink

xpost true that, scott, much more of what's out there is blatantly just filling up space. It makes sense. No one in spending money to print it on paper, and barely spending any money on the writers, so why get uptight and editorial about the pieces you run? I miss editors. Mean, uptight editors.

Q-Tip—blessed Q-Tip! (Jon Lewis), Friday, 28 December 2012 16:51 (four years ago) Permalink

NYCN, this is true of lots and lots of us. Our synapses were molded by the way information flowed in print. We'll always digest the net this way.

Q-Tip—blessed Q-Tip! (Jon Lewis), Friday, 28 December 2012 16:52 (four years ago) Permalink

tbh I think the biggest "development" in "music writing" this year, if we are restricting it to this year as in 2012 (and maybe parts of 2011), is the rise of these text articles with a youtube embed or full-size photo or gif or whatever between every paragraph. I mean I don't even dislike these on principle! they can actually work, maybe if there's some sort of wry humor being pulled off, caption writers with pulses, you know. or it wouldn't be the BIGGEST objection if the piece is supposed to be a listicle in the first place, but more often you tend to see articles that would be ~*longform*~ but whose 15 embedded speed bumps don't lend themselves well to close reading, or to bothering to sustain an argument. (if the writer originally wrote it text-only and then had a bunch of stuff embedded, most freelance commissions etc, it's not to bad, but people are starting to write for this format.)

like, in print design you sometimes hear about the dollar-bill rule, or that if you can put a dollar bill down on the page and hit only text, you need more art. (obviously this is more toward the USA Today end of the spectrum.) this is like that jim cramer.

(plus these things always crash my browser. and it is 2012!)

katherine, Friday, 28 December 2012 17:51 (four years ago) Permalink

(and I should clarify this is not a shot at any outlet in particular, nor is it about embeds in general but then I feel like everyone pretty much knows what I'm talking about.)

katherine, Friday, 28 December 2012 17:54 (four years ago) Permalink

can I go back to Perpetua's tumblr post for a second and ask if he is honestly arguing that the job of a music critic is to curate other people's opinions?

GIMME SOME REGGAE (DJP), Friday, 28 December 2012 18:09 (four years ago) Permalink

curated, small batch

Q-Tip—blessed Q-Tip! (Jon Lewis), Friday, 28 December 2012 18:16 (four years ago) Permalink

katherine otm, the tendency toward constant visuals/streaming media in the middle of articles instead of just at the top or even every few articles is i guess inevitable but unfortunate

fanute me or shoot me (some dude), Friday, 28 December 2012 18:20 (four years ago) Permalink

dan, the argument seems to be that being a music writer is doing whatever someone will pay you do to -- regardless of how little it has to do with anything 99 percent of humanity would define as "writing," "effort," "insight," "journalism," "originality," or "criticism" -- before that publication either goes under or decides to change its approach based on whatever new plan is apparently going to squeeze a few more advertising bucks out of whatever suckers are left advertising in music publications.

packt like phoebe cates's dad in a chimney (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Friday, 28 December 2012 18:22 (four years ago) Permalink

and then ideally you roll with that. and the next one. and the next one.

packt like phoebe cates's dad in a chimney (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Friday, 28 December 2012 18:23 (four years ago) Permalink

le guin novel that originally came with a tape of original new age folk in a made-up language is really good though if you ever see it.

― scott seward, Thursday, December 27, 2012 3:51 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

whoa what

it burns when 1p3 (goole), Friday, 28 December 2012 18:32 (four years ago) Permalink

i love how so many musicians on my facebook preface a link with: I USUALLY HATE ALL MUSIC REVIEWS BUT...

and then they link to something where they, themselves, are mentioned.

and then the first comment will be: THAT WAS SURPRISINGLY NOT HORRIBLE.

granted this is just a small sampling but it seems like there is a lot of animosity out there. and maybe my facebook is skewed toward old cranks and noise musicians but there is little love for the online rockcrit standard - sooooo much pitchfork hate - and even lots of hate for stuff like the wire. maybe people always hated the wire, i have no idea. and most of the links - like i mentioned earlier - are of the GET A LOAD OF THIS MORON - variety. not a lot of love in the room. so maybe perpetua does find insightful tumblr stuff every day, but the average person doesn't seem filled with wonder at the state of discourse. (again, my small crowd and the people they know, etc, not a proper cross-section. maybe its different elsewhere.)

scott seward, Friday, 28 December 2012 18:36 (four years ago) Permalink

there is a lot of nerd rage out there against critics in general, across all forms of media. Genre movie nerds DESPISE film critics with a knee-jerk venom that gets really depressing to me.

Q-Tip—blessed Q-Tip! (Jon Lewis), Friday, 28 December 2012 18:39 (four years ago) Permalink

i do get some of that too, scott. and yeah, mostly from folks who own shops or are in bands or etc. otherwise my feed seems evenly split between people who couldn't care less about any of this shit, and rock critics discussing some twitter feud or dumb article or some other thing where they might as well be speaking esperanto.

packt like phoebe cates's dad in a chimney (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Friday, 28 December 2012 18:41 (four years ago) Permalink

"whoa what"

original edition of Always Coming Home came with a tape of folk music and poetry. (sadly, though i love le guin, that book a little too new age-y earth mother-y for me. i don't think i ever even read the whole thing. cool concept though. lots of illustrations too of tribal stuff/customs/etc.)

scott seward, Friday, 28 December 2012 18:46 (four years ago) Permalink

see, i love sam fox reviews! would read all day. and she's right too.

scott seward, Friday, 28 December 2012 18:48 (four years ago) Permalink

i'll be honest, i much prefer to read musicians talking about music than any rockcrit these days. i always kinda want to subscribe to the wire JUST for their jukebox feature. its my favorite part of decibel too when they get a band to listen to songs blind. i love mojo's stuff like that. i love Q&A's with musicians. long interviews about music. that is the stuff for me. i almost always learn more. they're more illuminating even when filled with the usual prejudices and blindspots. there will always be music writers i like, but watching artists interact with art (same goes with filmmakers on film, writers on writing) is my preferred brand of criticism.

scott seward, Friday, 28 December 2012 18:52 (four years ago) Permalink

totally agree. Quietus should do an antho of their pick 13 pieces, love that shit so much.

Artists on other artists are totally untrustworthy in a certain sense but that's part of why it's so rewarding to read.

Q-Tip—blessed Q-Tip! (Jon Lewis), Friday, 28 December 2012 18:53 (four years ago) Permalink

I mean it's not true of all artists, for instance Brahms was able to look at just about all music around and preceding him with great insight, but Debussy, if you read all his writings on music you'd think no one worthwhile had ever composed except for a scant few oddball choices.

Q-Tip—blessed Q-Tip! (Jon Lewis), Friday, 28 December 2012 18:55 (four years ago) Permalink

and i love that.

Q-Tip—blessed Q-Tip! (Jon Lewis), Friday, 28 December 2012 18:56 (four years ago) Permalink

dusted site does that listed thing. those are really good. haven't looked at that site in forever. should check out new ones.

scott seward, Friday, 28 December 2012 18:58 (four years ago) Permalink

for some reason i ended up with all these back issues of Performing Songwriter magazine and i was just gonna throw them into the store but i ended up keeping them in the back to read. they're great! long q&a's with people you never see interviewed. i mean, a lot of them are people i don't even listen to, but i love reading them anyway. even their record reviews are pretty good. i mean they'll interview j.d. souther and mavis staples and darryl hall and chrissie hynde and tony visconti in the same issue. love it.

scott seward, Friday, 28 December 2012 19:02 (four years ago) Permalink

The "MUSIC WRITING SUX FUK PITCHFORK" etc. attitude seems to come mostly from non-pro musicians. It's a perennial complaint, the people who're most excited about a blerb are the squeakiest wheels about how this or that Institution is ruining everything.

BUT this isn't meant to be a dis toward so-called "amateurs"-- I have the opposite opinion and think amateur musicians have made good decisions in life--

If you are to consider that maybe this animosity toward Music Writing is coming from people who just aren't covered by anybody (or covered very effectively), might it not suggest a paucity in local coverage?

capital in ruins, thousands dead (flamboyant goon tie included), Friday, 28 December 2012 19:13 (four years ago) Permalink

I mean it makes me sad whenever WGW is like "you don't know how many fucking promo copies are on my desk right now" bc my favourite columns this year were those "Yes in my backyard" things

capital in ruins, thousands dead (flamboyant goon tie included), Friday, 28 December 2012 19:15 (four years ago) Permalink

scott, think I agree w/you regarding most music writers doing that until something better comes along. I think even *I* did this, but the better thing to come along was me growing up and realizing I just wanted to make music and not write.

However, imo that's not the main reason why music criticism might not "matter". To me, it's because people who read about music aren't looking for a discourse on anything, they're either using reviews as filters to find new music, or they just want to know what's cool in general, to fill some inner quota of current events (ha, in much the same way I read CNN). Also, I notice a lot of writers who seem to write because they want *their* voice out there as a content generator, rather than because they feel any great desire to service a community w/info or analysis. And really, that's not news. People are people, they do things out of self-interest.

Music criticism (or any criticism of the arts) is by my guess pretty low on the totem poll of journalistic career ambition, lower still for literary career ambition. It's often a gateway for writers, much as their reviews are gateways for readers. I don't mean to suggest that all the writing is bad or unimportant, but sheesh, it seems a lot of it is unnecessary beyond the "here is an item you should be interested in" way, even to the people writing/reading it.

Dominique, Friday, 28 December 2012 19:20 (four years ago) Permalink

i feel like the best mindset for musicians is "do what you're passionate about, try to find and audience but don't get angry or lose motivation when the one you find isn't especially large or lucrative" and critics could probably do well with that as a motto too

fanute me or shoot me (some dude), Friday, 28 December 2012 19:24 (four years ago) Permalink

Pipe dreams imo

capital in ruins, thousands dead (flamboyant goon tie included), Friday, 28 December 2012 20:23 (four years ago) Permalink

some dude OTM here I think. The problem isn's that criticism doesn't matter, it's its that a larger and larger group of people don't find it matters to them. Meh. If writing about music is something you want to do, is the art you want to make, then make it, let it matter to those it matters to (even if that might be a small group of fellow music writers.)

Regional Tug (irrational), Friday, 28 December 2012 21:47 (four years ago) Permalink

editors, plz give Samantha Fox a regular column.

the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 28 December 2012 21:54 (four years ago) Permalink

she used to have a whole page

set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 28 December 2012 21:55 (four years ago) Permalink

give her a magazine then

the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 28 December 2012 21:58 (four years ago) Permalink

maybe i'm just getting further inside the bubble but it kinda feels to me like there's a lot of good energy in the music writing world at the moment? obviously as a profession and as a medium there are some unfortunate economic and cultural trends afoot, but in terms of people getting riled up about what they're listening to and what other people are writing, and the amount of interaction on twitter/tumblr/etc. that is actually substantial conversation or argument and not just shallow networking.

fanute me or shoot me (some dude), Friday, 28 December 2012 21:59 (four years ago) Permalink

Yeah, obviously The Collapse of the Monoculture as well as the entities that used to allow writers to eke a decent living has had consequences, but the climate feels simultaneously more AND less insular. Thanks to the interwebs, we can comment on each other's FB, Twitter, Tumblr; conversations take place which couldn't fifteen years ago. On the other hand I'm more aware than ever at how small the rockcrit/music writing community is. It was small in 1995 and 1983 too but now that we're forced to engage in what is essentially niche marketing the chances of any supra-cultural impact are slim.

the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 28 December 2012 22:03 (four years ago) Permalink

A Day Without Rain [Reprise, 2001]
Pondering the fate of post-September 11 pop, everyone predicted what they already wished for--Slipknot undone, Britney in hiding. What happened instead was the unthinkable--sales of Enya's first album since 1995 spiked 10 months after release. (And she thought that movie where Charlize Theron fucked Keanu Reeves and died of cancer was a promotional coup!) Two years in the making with the artiste playing every synthesizer, the 11 songs here last a resounding 34 minutes and represent a significant downsizing of her New Age exoticism since 1988's breakthrough, Watermark--it's goopier, more simplistic. Yanni is Tchaikovsky by comparison, Sarah McLachlan Ella Fitzgerald, treacle Smithfield ham. Right, whatever gets folks through the night. But Enya's the kind of artist who makes you think, if this piffle got them through it, how dark could their night have been? Like Master P or Michael Bolton only worse, she tests one's faith in democracy itself. D-

Mr. Snrub, Saturday, 29 December 2012 20:23 (four years ago) Permalink

Assholy in the last two sentences, but no, it's not the worst music writing ever, esp. compared to many other specimens submitted.

dow, Saturday, 29 December 2012 21:12 (four years ago) Permalink

Assholy vs her fans, that is

dow, Saturday, 29 December 2012 21:14 (four years ago) Permalink

oh, c'mon, that's funny!

s.clover, Saturday, 29 December 2012 23:27 (four years ago) Permalink

Zingers on target up the last couple couple sentences (a little too much stage blood there), and "treacle Smithfield ham" is a great punchline for the comparisons, maybe he shoulda quit there? Brevity is the soul of wit, but I guess he wanted to emphasize the fact that he was really really upset!!

dow, Sunday, 30 December 2012 01:28 (four years ago) Permalink

So pretty funny after all--tell us how you really feel, 'gau.

dow, Sunday, 30 December 2012 01:29 (four years ago) Permalink

how terrible that he wrote a bad review of an Enya record.

the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 30 December 2012 01:37 (four years ago) Permalink

writers should justify easy target hatchet jobs by bringing their A game, not by sneering bravely at a fanbase that is almost definitely not reading it

some dude, Sunday, 30 December 2012 01:45 (four years ago) Permalink

A- game in this case.

the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 30 December 2012 01:55 (four years ago) Permalink

christgau doesn't even seem to like records he says are A- so that's appropriate

PliesStripAThon5Jan20th@gmail.com (some dude), Sunday, 30 December 2012 01:55 (four years ago) Permalink

i mean it really is perhaps the most useless rating system in all of music writing

PliesStripAThon5Jan20th@gmail.com (some dude), Sunday, 30 December 2012 01:57 (four years ago) Permalink

It's more accurate to say he doesn't much like his B+'s and especially his B's. Getting awarded the latter means you should crawl back into your mother's womb.

the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 30 December 2012 02:04 (four years ago) Permalink

like i said, most useless rating system in all of music writing

PliesStripAThon5Jan20th@gmail.com (some dude), Sunday, 30 December 2012 02:05 (four years ago) Permalink

Better just to ignore the grades and read the comments---but the later thing, when he awards icons of bombs etc, with no comments--now *that* is the most useless rating system, far as I'm concerned.

dow, Sunday, 30 December 2012 02:54 (four years ago) Permalink

i thought he was dropping bombs in the style of Funkmaster Flex

PliesStripAThon5Jan20th@gmail.com (some dude), Sunday, 30 December 2012 02:57 (four years ago) Permalink

it's da bomb

Rolling "2 chainz" draadje (The Reverend), Sunday, 30 December 2012 02:59 (four years ago) Permalink

I'd like to think so! Like it even better if he just spewed keyboard graffiti all over his hated ones; (!#)))>\d1-->fuk I know some of yall are more creative w it

dow, Sunday, 30 December 2012 03:04 (four years ago) Permalink

In my line of work only deans get to decree whether anything is neither here nor there

the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 30 December 2012 04:00 (four years ago) Permalink

(thanks guys. a novel! by me! you are all so nice <3)

wouldn't a single bomb imply it being THE bomb, though

maura, Sunday, 30 December 2012 15:20 (four years ago) Permalink

"productionally"? ...yes, terrible piece of writing.

Doctor Flange, Sunday, 30 December 2012 16:04 (four years ago) Permalink

Samantha Fox reviews The Fall, 1986.

http://dangerousminds.net/content/uploads/images/37735076264sam1.jpg

Stop Gerrying Me! (onimo), Thursday, 3 January 2013 12:36 (four years ago) Permalink

what's wrong with that?

besides Sunny Real Estate (dog latin), Thursday, 3 January 2013 12:42 (four years ago) Permalink

Mark Smith doesn't yodel on that song
It doesn't rip off a Peter Gunn guitar bit
She listens to half a song then moans about a different band
The Smiths are not this "sort of group" when this sort is The Fall
The Smiths lyric is wrong
"I heard one the other while"

Stop Gerrying Me! (onimo), Thursday, 3 January 2013 12:51 (four years ago) Permalink

The Smiths lyric is wrong

attempt to look intentionally nerdy, awkward or (thomp), Thursday, 3 January 2013 12:56 (four years ago) Permalink

I am just going to type all of the Wire's '2012 Rewind' issue in here. Particularly though Tony Herrington's bit about the diaspora of African-American archetype invoked in DJ Spinn's 'Teklife 2'.

attempt to look intentionally nerdy, awkward or (thomp), Thursday, 3 January 2013 12:58 (four years ago) Permalink

Sam Foxes are the art of pretend forgetfulness

Sounds like something Maria Carey would of rejected (DJ Mencap), Thursday, 3 January 2013 13:05 (four years ago) Permalink

There is totally a yodelly bit in "Living Too Late". Two, I think.
It does sound a bit "Peter Gunn"-y too, I can see what she means, though I agree rip-off would be a bit strong.
From Sam's POV, The Smiths and The Fall are probably the same sort of group, I might have said the same thing in 1986 (1986 would probably have been the year when I got close enough to indie to start thinking about the subgenres as not the same sort of music).
This isn't music writing, it's music chat.
"I heard one the other while" is very likely mis-transcription for "I heard one the other day, while..."

I'm on Sam's side in this one.

Tim, Thursday, 3 January 2013 13:25 (four years ago) Permalink

It's a basically accurate piece, and I like the style too.

s.clover, Thursday, 3 January 2013 14:22 (four years ago) Permalink

He fails badly at a couple of high notes, I don't think that counts at trying to yodel.
Peter Gunn is very distinctive, the Fall track is distinctively not like it, though I too can see what she means - it's a perfect example of a lazy reference from a bad reviewer.
"From x's POV" is every review ever - people shouldn't get a free pass for being wrong

I know it isn't supposed to be proper music writing - I saw it on Dangerous Minds and it amused me and it reminded me of this thread.

I do get (slightly) annoyed when people who can't write and have no interest in a genre are asked to write reviews just because they have huge tits are famous.

Stop Gerrying Me! (onimo), Thursday, 3 January 2013 14:26 (four years ago) Permalink

naughty girls review records, too

GIMME SOME REGGAE (DJP), Thursday, 3 January 2013 14:36 (four years ago) Permalink

xp So that's what Stylus's letter-graded system referred to...

besides Sunny Real Estate (dog latin), Thursday, 3 January 2013 14:38 (four years ago) Permalink

I think "he sounds like he's been having yodelling lessons" is a pleasingly accurate reflection of what happens at 1:13 and 2:26 in "Living Too Late".

"Peter Gunn" is a perfectly sensible reference, too - the two twangy lines are not identical but clearly similar enough to merit a comparison.

Sam's not wrong in saying that the Smiths and The Fall are different sorts of music, she's right - they are both alternative rock. Now you (and I) may be close enough to see the many subdivisions in alternative rock, and with that perspective (and the benefit of a quarter of a century of hindsight) they may sound like different sorts of music. You (or I) don't need to be a specialist or an expert to have a valid opinion. I think Sam's opinions here are valid, although not particularly interesting.

The worst thing to have come out of this exchange is my having listened to "Living Too Late". I remember liking it, this morning I'd have told you I liked it, and I now think it is really, really terrible.

Tim, Thursday, 3 January 2013 14:45 (four years ago) Permalink

Sam did herself a favour by taking the damnable thing off at half time, and it's not like anything happens in the second half of the record to change a person's mind about it, is it?

Tim, Thursday, 3 January 2013 14:47 (four years ago) Permalink

I am sorry for spoiling Duane Eddy's yodelling Smithsesque classic for you.

Stop Gerrying Me! (onimo), Thursday, 3 January 2013 14:48 (four years ago) Permalink

So you should be, what with you being placed here to rep for that sort of music.

Tim, Thursday, 3 January 2013 14:49 (four years ago) Permalink

Wish I stopped @ Luigi Nono's music was never going to change the world. A travesty.

Some of the other entries are terrible too.

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 3 January 2013 15:17 (four years ago) Permalink

I'm scared to read that

~farben~ (Jon Lewis), Thursday, 3 January 2013 16:30 (four years ago) Permalink

the thing I like about the smiths comparison is the fall sometimes sounds nothing like the smiths, but that track does sound something like the smiths. and the lyrics are more smithslike than other fall tracks too. and i love the smiths lyrics in that review!

s.clover, Thursday, 3 January 2013 19:00 (four years ago) Permalink

mark e was always my favourite one of the smiths

Albert Crampus (NickB), Thursday, 3 January 2013 19:10 (four years ago) Permalink

Imagine a duet of mark e and Morrisey---a mash-up maybe---?

dow, Thursday, 3 January 2013 19:12 (four years ago) Permalink

M-o-r-r-i-s-s-ey, that is (what, ah, you. ah, mmmeaan-ah----to me.)(that's my mark e imitation)

dow, Thursday, 3 January 2013 19:14 (four years ago) Permalink

we did the sam fox thing up thread already?

jazbay crostata (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 3 January 2013 19:15 (four years ago) Permalink

I read somewhere that Morrissey couldn't stand being in the same room as MES bcz the latter always insisted in calling the former by his birth name Stephen (MES-is-a-prick-shockah)

x-gau, uncut gau, The Bomb! (Drugs A. Money), Thursday, 3 January 2013 19:22 (four years ago) Permalink

Samantha Fox is such a wild dame.

this will surprise many (Nicole), Thursday, 3 January 2013 20:35 (four years ago) Permalink

I think of Shiftwork as the Fall's 'Smiths' record

~farben~ (Jon Lewis), Thursday, 3 January 2013 20:38 (four years ago) Permalink

maybe he was mad they named their band after him.

s.clover, Thursday, 3 January 2013 21:04 (four years ago) Permalink

This is written in defense of Holopaw. The band has simply put too much time, love and care into their new record for this type of thing to occur.
In disheartening form, Paste Magazine published a snarky review of Holopaw's new Misra release, however, they clearly listened to the concept album in the wrong order. It's fair enough if the widely read publication doesn't take to the "unevenly epic Academy Songs, Volume I," however, it's not fair to criticize an album as "uneven" when you haven't even bothered to listen to it in the correct order.

In reading the Holopaw review, it seems Paste writer Beca Grimm spent little time with Academy, downloaded it incorrectly, and clearly didn't care to read the track order that accompanied the promo. Grimm writes:

"Academy" sparks with John Orth's cherub vocals as flint. Tiny embers glow quietly, transitioning into the demure, hotly narrative "Bedfellows Farewell."

But then a hiccup. Surely the band included "Chapperelles Interlude" in an effort to set the very deliberate, scholastic stage. Following hot on the heels, "Diamonds" comes off almost like a parody of the nostalgia Academy tries so hard to maintain. It doesn't work.

This review doesn't work. The song "Academy" does not transition into "Bedfellows Farewell," "Bedfellows Farewell" does not transition into "Chapperelles Interlude," and "Diamonds" does not "follow hot on the heels" of the latter. From there, Grimm goes on to further illustrate that she listened to the new concept album incorrectly and, in turn, issued an inaccurate, unfair assessment. Perhaps Grimm wouldn't find Academy Songs, Volume I lacks in "the final burst of tenacity needed to alleviate the audio blue balls it conjures" if it was listened to correctly? Then again, perhaps not, but Paste and Grimm don't even bother to give Holopaw a fighting chance here.

When you pour your heart into a new record and spend months and months preparing for its release, it's obviously disheartening to read a snarky review. Nonetheless, in requesting criticism, this misfortune is expected from time-to-time. What's not expected is that a widely read and highly influential publication will avoid taking proper time and care with your release.

When painstaking hours of hard work are tossed to the wayside in such a lackluster manner it's enough to put you on the defense. Really, what does this say about the trusted voices of music criticism?

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 16 January 2013 13:48 (four years ago) Permalink

layers within layers of steaming gibberish

Eyeball Kicks, Wednesday, 16 January 2013 13:50 (four years ago) Permalink

"Academy" "Bedfellows Farewell" "Chapperelles Interlude" "Diamonds"

Looks like the reviewer listened to the tracks in alphabetical order - the download prob didn't have tracks numbers and played in file-name order.

Stop Gerrying Me! (onimo), Wednesday, 16 January 2013 13:53 (four years ago) Permalink

"trusted voices of music criticism"

s.clover, Wednesday, 16 January 2013 14:01 (four years ago) Permalink

it's never nice to hear you conjured audio blue balls

da croupier, Wednesday, 16 January 2013 14:05 (four years ago) Permalink

ok this whole review would be a wow even if the author had listened to the tracks in order

http://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2013/01/holopaw-academy-songs-volume-1.html

can remember twice when I experienced snow in Florida. The first time feels hazy—I recall stuffing my sparkly bangled arms into thick, magenta coat sleeves for the occasion but not much else. The second remains crystal: I stood outside a Tallahassee liquor store the day after Christmas two years ago. A Miami native and FLA-all-day gal, my mom looked around puzzled, a bottle of Bombay Sapphire fisted. “Ash?” she asked me. “Weird to be doing a controlled burn in the winter.”

da croupier, Wednesday, 16 January 2013 14:09 (four years ago) Permalink

poor holopaw

Mordy, Wednesday, 16 January 2013 14:12 (four years ago) Permalink

it's nice to know that the brent d-era pitchfork style lives on after deletion

da croupier, Wednesday, 16 January 2013 14:13 (four years ago) Permalink

i can confirm that this holopaw album is less than impressive

Mordy, Wednesday, 16 January 2013 14:52 (four years ago) Permalink

d'uh THAT was the concept.

pandemic, Wednesday, 16 January 2013 14:55 (four years ago) Permalink

oooweee
Academy" sparks with John Orth's cherub vocals as flint. Tiny embers glow quietly, transitioning into the demure, hotly narrative "Bedfellows Farewell."

dow, Wednesday, 16 January 2013 15:04 (four years ago) Permalink

two weeks pass...

I'm sure this guy has his fans and making an effort is better in principle than hacky boilerplate but sweet Jesus no.

http://thequietus.com/articles/11264-my-bloody-valentine-live-review

Deafening silence (DL), Thursday, 31 January 2013 10:38 (four years ago) Permalink

haha he is overreaching somewhat

Eyeball Kicks, Thursday, 31 January 2013 10:42 (four years ago) Permalink

"jungle love"

Just noise and screaming and no musical value at all. (Colonel Poo), Thursday, 31 January 2013 10:44 (four years ago) Permalink

holy shit. i obviously fast-forwarded to the end, which was even worse than i had imagined.

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Thursday, 31 January 2013 10:45 (four years ago) Permalink

I mean he can obviously write and there are some good sentences but that ending is unforgivable. Also, the meaningful epigraph thing has been done to death.

Deafening silence (DL), Thursday, 31 January 2013 10:47 (four years ago) Permalink

"teenhood"

Ballboy to Afghanistan (LocalGarda), Thursday, 31 January 2013 10:50 (four years ago) Permalink

His style's given to hyperbole and flights of fancy, but JC's a good sort in my book.

dog latin, Thursday, 31 January 2013 11:17 (four years ago) Permalink

The sort of writing that helped hasten the end of Melody Maker in the nineties.

Here he is with the classic "Poème Électronique." Good track (Marcello Carlin), Thursday, 31 January 2013 12:24 (four years ago) Permalink

made it to "de-materialised"

Hermann Hesher (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 31 January 2013 12:28 (four years ago) Permalink

"Maybe God"

Neil S, Thursday, 31 January 2013 12:28 (four years ago) Permalink

perhaps he was thinking of Tricky's short-lived 90s project Nearly God.

Neil S, Thursday, 31 January 2013 12:29 (four years ago) Permalink

To be fair, I remember finding this kind of overwriting very exciting as an MM-reading teenager circa 1989, so I'm sure that some Quietus readers think of Calvert the same way I used to think of Chris Roberts at his purplest, which I now find unreadable. I blame shoegazing. Sonic cathedrals redux.

Deafening silence (DL), Thursday, 31 January 2013 13:14 (four years ago) Permalink

nah, i love florid prose and this isn't a case of "too much" this is just v. bad florid prose

Hermann Hesher (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 31 January 2013 13:18 (four years ago) Permalink

The sort of writing that helped hasten the end of Melody Maker in the nineties.

Naw the music they covered did that perfectly well.

pfunkboy (Algerian Goalkeeper), Thursday, 31 January 2013 13:19 (four years ago) Permalink

Well, yes.

Here he is with the classic "Poème Électronique." Good track (Marcello Carlin), Thursday, 31 January 2013 13:59 (four years ago) Permalink

I suspect here that MC is referring to the last year or two of the tabloid-sized Maker, and AG to the magazine-sized one that hatched as, presumably, a misguided attempt to bump up its sales

why they let the bodies hit the floor? (DJ Mencap), Thursday, 31 January 2013 14:18 (four years ago) Permalink

well, the writing on the wall was when they gave Catatonia album of the year and that was old style broadsheet MM

pfunkboy (Algerian Goalkeeper), Thursday, 31 January 2013 14:19 (four years ago) Permalink

By the time MM reached its terminal phase nobody was writing like this. This has much more of a late 80s/early 90s pre-Britpop-triumphalism vibe. I don't remember when the relaunch happened.

Deafening silence (DL), Thursday, 31 January 2013 14:20 (four years ago) Permalink

And I was just about to say Catatonia never got AOTY but I googled it and holy shit you're right. Catatonia > Beastie Boys > Mercury Rev > Pulp > Air.

Deafening silence (DL), Thursday, 31 January 2013 14:22 (four years ago) Permalink

I never forgave them for it

pfunkboy (Algerian Goalkeeper), Thursday, 31 January 2013 14:23 (four years ago) Permalink

Head Music getting AOTY in 99 was just as bad (and I loved the 1st 3 Suede albums)

pfunkboy (Algerian Goalkeeper), Thursday, 31 January 2013 14:25 (four years ago) Permalink

If you're going to be purple, you have to communicate accurately and choose the right words. Calvert doesn't. So it reads like undergraduate wanking, interspersed with odd sports commentator asides.

Easy sample: "MBV are, in a very real way, able to summon divinity. That, or the secular equivalent." Well, no, because the very nature of divinity is that it has no secular equivalent.

Manfred Mann meets Man Parrish (ithappens), Thursday, 31 January 2013 14:35 (four years ago) Permalink

"MBV are, in a very real way, able to summon divinity. That, or the secular equivalent."

LOLz

Designated Striver (Tom D.), Thursday, 31 January 2013 14:37 (four years ago) Permalink

xp Head Music?! Christ.

I know 1998 was a weak year but it can't have been as bad as that MM list makes out. There are maybe 10-12 albums on there that I would bother with now.

Deafening silence (DL), Thursday, 31 January 2013 14:37 (four years ago) Permalink

Here's the NME list for 98: http://www.rocklistmusic.co.uk/1998.html

Manfred Mann meets Man Parrish (ithappens), Thursday, 31 January 2013 14:41 (four years ago) Permalink

MM had obviously "invested" in Catatonia that year. Or Allan Jones loved it above all else.

Manfred Mann meets Man Parrish (ithappens), Thursday, 31 January 2013 14:42 (four years ago) Permalink

MM just sunk so low in its final years.

pfunkboy (Algerian Goalkeeper), Thursday, 31 January 2013 14:47 (four years ago) Permalink

That Born To Do It "send-up" was maybe the final straw.

Here he is with the classic "Poème Électronique." Good track (Marcello Carlin), Thursday, 31 January 2013 14:52 (four years ago) Permalink

I'm pretty sure I did the worst piece of music writing at some point in my life.

I'm sorry about that.

Loud guitars shit all over "Bette Davis Eyes" (NYCNative), Thursday, 31 January 2013 15:28 (four years ago) Permalink

When he finally gets to describing the actual performance, it's a lot better: his imagery is tied to some sense of impressions of particular sounds and how they were generated. If he'd concentrated on the sense of his KV quote, rather than just slapping it up there, could've been really powerful: here is this outer awkardness, this crap sound system, ths bit with changing guitars, maybe stage fright of people who in any case are no longer used to the vagaries of live performance if they ever were--but here comes this MBV reach for transcendence, this stubborn audacity. Anyway, some of that did come across. I'd say start with some backstory, telling the noobs why and how the band mattered in the first place, without boring or pandering to the old fans, the kind of balancing act you gotta/should do do with this stuff. (Some of this may also be the anxiety of writing long by today's usual standards.) And yeah lose that ending.

dow, Thursday, 31 January 2013 15:37 (four years ago) Permalink

I just went and downloaded the Holopaw promo and discovered, yes, the ID3 tages were correct, so this writer probably sorted them fucked up in their own iTunes

Whiney G. Weingarten, Thursday, 31 January 2013 15:37 (four years ago) Permalink

A friend who works on an online title said she was horrified that one of her fellow editors thought that writers filing long (because no word count) were going the extra mile and giving them value for money, when in fact it can take longer to edit a piece than it can to write the first draft - cutting extraneous words is how you go the extra mile. The freedom of online may be better than stubby little 80-word magazine reviews but it needs to be tempered by some kind of awareness of the appropriate length. Pitchfork, for example, is much better now at not letting writers ramble on ad nauseam. Even the tiniest limit on this review's word count would have meant removing the worst bits and tightening the best sections and if editors won't impose those limits it falls to the writer to exercise a bit of self-censorship, otherwise a potentially excellent review can become a florid mess.

Deafening silence (DL), Thursday, 31 January 2013 15:47 (four years ago) Permalink

The Quietus - which is generally a useful site - does seem to be a little light in its editing. Even the good pieces feel like drafts.

Eyeball Kicks, Thursday, 31 January 2013 15:58 (four years ago) Permalink

I enjoy reading The Quietus a lot

pfunkboy (Algerian Goalkeeper), Thursday, 31 January 2013 15:59 (four years ago) Permalink

me too, but it does have the occasional wtf piece on there, and is no worse for that.

Neil S, Thursday, 31 January 2013 16:00 (four years ago) Permalink

cutting extraneous words is how you go the extra mile Exactly. A lot of the overdone opening, in my experience, is revving up the engines, and sometimes the self-confidence/motivation/will to write. Once I get the whole thing "done", can see it, often happily, as a first draft (not that I always cut enough, or well enough).

dow, Thursday, 31 January 2013 16:06 (four years ago) Permalink

The thing that causes me most shame - and that is the correct word I'm using - about the Quietus is the standard of editing. There is no subbing because there are no subs or production people because we don't charge a cover fee like, for example, the old Melody Maker or the Guardian. I work 6am to 1 or 2am at the moment to do the second job that allows me to do the Quietus. World's smallest violin right?

We'd need to be twice the size we are to afford a production editor and even then I wouldn't hire one, the money would go on making sure all the writers got paid, rather than just some. This is simply what it's like now and will remain like for the foreseeable future. We'd need an audience of tens of millions per month to be able to afford one sub editor part time. And this is not going to happen given the lack of click throughs, listicles, lowest common denominator features, features on MUSE and Mumfords etc.

So if anyone wants to lend their skills to a "useful" site and do us a few hours of subbing gratis we'd love to hear from you. It's a problem that I'd really like to get on top of. John at the quietus dot com.

I'm not going to say anything about Calvert other than I love his writing. For all it's madness and gauche purpleness etc. he nails MBV for me. I first went to see them when I was 16 when Isn't Anything were out. This is exactly how I felt about them.

I totally get why people hate him though... it's not like there aren't plenty of other dry pieces to read on the site.

Doran, Thursday, 31 January 2013 16:34 (four years ago) Permalink

thanks for the thoughtful response D. As I said, I never mind the occasional o_0 post on The Quietus, it's part of the fun, and you have so many great writers there's always something worth checking out IMO. Keep on keepin' on!

Neil S, Thursday, 31 January 2013 16:37 (four years ago) Permalink

To be fair to Calvert, he's got a regular slot reviewing live shows for tQ. I wouldn't like to imagine trying to write an original, interesting medium/long-form live review once every couple of weeks - think I'd go a bit mad.

dog latin, Thursday, 31 January 2013 16:42 (four years ago) Permalink

XP: We want him to write shorter pieces on the whole. And this is my favourite one of his. If we saw it as a "failure" we'd discontinue the series. And a lot of people read him.

Seriously, we totally expect to get the grief over Calvert! We'd be idiots if we didn't! I'm not bothered about it but the editing thing ruins the little sleep I have. Also, the way I see it is everything is pretty much in balance. So at the other end of the scale from Calvert we've got Matthew Lindsay who is such a forensically brilliant journalist.

I don't know if you saw his pieces on Nico: The Marble Index Trilogy Kate Bush: The Dreaming and David Bowie: Ziggy Stardust. I'd stand these pieces against anything published in MOJO, UNCUT etc. In fact I'd say they're a lot better.

Doran, Thursday, 31 January 2013 16:47 (four years ago) Permalink

Secular Divinity would be a great name for a terrible band/album.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 31 January 2013 17:02 (four years ago) Permalink

(re reviewing live gigs so often)True, and it would be hard to deal w finding yourself finding patterns, however useful to yourself and readers; plua a lot of live bands present songs in very predictable arcs. Good to see that the New Yorker's Anthony Lane has found fresh ways to entertain/console himself and his audience, even/especially while slogging through blockbuster movies.

dow, Thursday, 31 January 2013 17:10 (four years ago) Permalink

And, before heading out the door, I meant to just glance over Linday's Marble Index Trilogy piece, but got hooked. Wow! Would like him to indicate sources for some biographical stuff (the Nico Icon documentary, perhaps?); also, the pre-VU Jimmy Page-produced single, "I'm Not Saying/The Last Mile" and Chelsea Girls are already Nico as hell--she always needed a producer, but even pre-"trilogy", she came across pretty strongly (would also have liked to see him talk about her performances on VU albums, since it's long anyway). But she really, really comes across vividly in this, and he's got details that even old Nico junkie me never saw before. Thanks!

dow, Thursday, 31 January 2013 17:20 (four years ago) Permalink

Thanks Dow. I'll ask Matt about his sources. He's working on a Kraftwerk related piece for us at the moment.

Ima Pay Close Attention To Your Post (Doran), Thursday, 31 January 2013 17:54 (four years ago) Permalink

No prob; I guess some of his references might be from Cale's What's Weish For Zen, which I'm finally about to read, rather than skim; also of course he mentions Young's memoir. Looking fwd to the Kraftwerk-related!

dow, Thursday, 31 January 2013 18:26 (four years ago) Permalink

one month passes...

I'm late to this but Zadie Smith's Joni piece is one of the most incoherent pieces I've ever read in the New Yorker and it tells you nothing at all about why she came around to Joni's music (or specifically Blue - she seems to have written the whole piece without venturing any further). When she began a long aside about Kierkegaard that took up most of the penultimate page I gave up on expecting anything useful from this piece. Is it about Joni Mitchell? Or her childhood? Or race? Or how to deal with overwhelming cultural choice? Or insecurity about artforms you don't fully grasp? Or why you change your mind about certain art? It's all of these things and yet none of them. I can't imagine a less famous writer getting something so garbled past an editor.

Deafening silence (DL), Wednesday, 13 March 2013 14:07 (four years ago) Permalink

haven't read it but i'm pretty sure the piece is about Zadie Smith.

wmlynch, Wednesday, 13 March 2013 18:13 (four years ago) Permalink

Yeah I think we talked about it extensively in either a Joni thread or the NYer thread or a Zadie thread, don't remember. It was very childishly narcissistc, like "I used to not like pizza, but then, one time, I went to my friend's birthday party, and there were like 8 different kinds of pizza..."

space phwoar (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 13 March 2013 18:33 (four years ago) Permalink

or like "it bums me out that my friends know more about pizza than i do. I guess it's because I spend all my time knowing everything about french cuisine"

gentle german fatherly voice (President Keyes), Wednesday, 13 March 2013 19:54 (four years ago) Permalink

So why do you think you like pizza so much now? Is it the cheese? The crust? The toppings. "Uh… oh… I… Kierkegaard?"

Deafening silence (DL), Wednesday, 13 March 2013 19:57 (four years ago) Permalink

BAN NOVELISTS FROM MUSIC WRITING

maura, Wednesday, 13 March 2013 20:41 (four years ago) Permalink

I've been so bitter about this lately I think there's maybe only about ten people who shouldn't be banned from music writing.

rallying against young people who wear hats (Nicole), Wednesday, 13 March 2013 20:42 (four years ago) Permalink

I think a great side-effect of the internet is that it has devalued merely having an opinion about an artist or piece of music as being worthy of extended writing.

space phwoar (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 13 March 2013 20:45 (four years ago) Permalink

Like it already used to be boring enough when the NYTimes or NPR would ask a bunch of random people of note what their ten dessert island discs were and why, and they'd fumble through their thin musical vocabularies for an explanation, as though just being who they were and liking something mattered. That might have been tolerable when I didn't have a million better pieces of music writing at my fingertips, not to mention spotify.

space phwoar (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 13 March 2013 20:47 (four years ago) Permalink

*desert island

space phwoar (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 13 March 2013 22:37 (four years ago) Permalink

JUST TELL ME WHERE TO FIND THIS DESSERT ISLAND DAMMIT

poking pocong (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 13 March 2013 22:44 (four years ago) Permalink

easier ways to get music recommendations

the craziest half-court shots and wildest WAGs (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 13 March 2013 23:06 (four years ago) Permalink

i know right if I were on dessert island I wouldn't need music cuz I'd be too busy eating DESSERTS