OK, is this the worst piece of music writing ever?

Argh, nu-ilx has shrunk it slightly past readable; here's a direct link - http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/njsouthall/Screengrabs/onsellingoutexepose.jpg

I just boggled at this over my lunch.

― Scik Mouthy, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:18 (5 years ago) Permalink

"Jonny" is a name for gaywads

― Dom Passantino, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:20 (5 years ago) Permalink

This only proves again that editors and writers are two different professions. Hence the two names.

― StanM, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:22 (5 years ago) Permalink

You are actually posting a scan of an article from a student newspaper as the basis for a thread, aren't you? Good lord.

― Matt DC, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:25 (5 years ago) Permalink

It's a screengrab from the pdf off the website! They didn't have a normal text version...

― Scik Mouthy, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:28 (5 years ago) Permalink

can you link to the website? photobucket seems to be banned here.

― acrobat, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:29 (5 years ago) Permalink

http://www.exepose.ex.ac.uk

― Scik Mouthy, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:30 (5 years ago) Permalink

goes from strength to strength -- feeder mention is possibly the high point.

― That one guy that quit, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:31 (5 years ago) Permalink

System of a Down's top 20 single was six and a half years ago, fact fans.

― Dom Passantino, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:32 (5 years ago) Permalink

"Recent developments in music have given Architechs a top 5 single"

― Dom Passantino, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:33 (5 years ago) Permalink

surely this can't be THE jonny garrett?

http://www.myspace.com/chasingfaces

― StanM, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:33 (5 years ago) Permalink

(yeah, they have a myspace already, the sellouts)

― StanM, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:34 (5 years ago) Permalink

I suspect it must be, StanM.

― Scik Mouthy, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:34 (5 years ago) Permalink

I assume, from their name that they like Snow Patrol and The Small Faces.

― Scik Mouthy, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:35 (5 years ago) Permalink

um, holding up articles by students as examples of 'bad music writing'? talk about shooting fish in a barrel. Matt DC OTM.

― blueski, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:35 (5 years ago) Permalink

Following in the footsteps of West Country acts like Muse and Thirteen Senses by already winning over interest from various major and independent record labels, things are definitely looking good for the boys. Having recently been asked to support New Zealand favourites The Checks who have just finished touring with the likes of JET and Oasis.

"I know someone who knows someone who knows the guy from Young Heart Attack quite well"

― Dom Passantino, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:36 (5 years ago) Permalink

blueski and Matt DC offtm, this is the new web2.0 media era, we're all critics now, user provided content is the new professionally written content.

― Dom Passantino, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:36 (5 years ago) Permalink

Even in the realm of student media this is BAAAAAAAAD though, Steve - I flick through Exepose every week and this is BY FAR the worst thing I've ever seen in it; hence not starting a thread every week.

― Scik Mouthy, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:37 (5 years ago) Permalink

Haha I used to write for that paper. I wonder how long before he Googles his own name and finds it.

― Matt DC, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:39 (5 years ago) Permalink

It would be so wonderful if he googled this thread and responded. What an utterly thrilling discussion and exchange of views that could lead to.

― blueski, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:40 (5 years ago) Permalink

Hey, with any luck he might hop over to ILE and start posting about his sex life or something.

― Dom Passantino, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:41 (5 years ago) Permalink

(my question: is the article motivated by his own band possibly signing to a major soon?)

― StanM, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:42 (5 years ago) Permalink

Maybe I should unleash the views of Chris Erasmus at you all?

― Scik Mouthy, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:42 (5 years ago) Permalink

Haha, yeah, I'd imagine so, StanM.

― Scik Mouthy, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:43 (5 years ago) Permalink

Hello Jonny's mom! No, he hasn't posted about his sex life yet. Try again later. Bye, ILX.

― StanM, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:43 (5 years ago) Permalink

blueski and Matt DC offtm, this is the new web2.0 media era, we're all critics now, user provided content is the new professionally written content.

-- Dom Passantino, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:36 (11 minutes ago) Link

Dom is entirely correct here. I mean, the chuckle factor is diminished by him being a student, but the democratization of criticism basically leaves us with this sort of landscape (coughcoughP.E.W.cough).

― sanskrit, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:54 (5 years ago) Permalink

also why do nearly all student newspaper writers write in what feels like the same voice? there's certain syntax and word choices that only student newspapers ever seem to have.

― acrobat, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:59 (5 years ago) Permalink

Nobody knows how to sub-edit when they're 21, that's why.

― Dom Passantino, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:03 (5 years ago) Permalink

^^not unrelated to why writers in the say, New York Times tend to sound the same. for that matter, ever read Blender? Despite the bylines it seems to be written by one many-armed poprockbot.

― m coleman, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:04 (5 years ago) Permalink

that really is quite incredible.

― jed_, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:07 (5 years ago) Permalink

New York Times doesn't have sub-editors? That's crazy!

― acrobat, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:08 (5 years ago) Permalink

Hey Jonny, your band fucking suck.

― Noodle Vague, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:10 (5 years ago) Permalink

Jonny Garrett of Exeter University, that is.

― Noodle Vague, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:11 (5 years ago) Permalink

I think you mean <a href="OK, is this the worst piece of music writing ever?;>Jonny Garrett</a> of Exeter University.

― Dom Passantino, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:14 (5 years ago) Permalink

BOO HTML

― Dom Passantino, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:14 (5 years ago) Permalink

Kudos on sticking it to Westlife, tho, Jonny Garrett of Exeter University. Those bastards have had it their own way for too long.

― Noodle Vague, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:15 (5 years ago) Permalink

Does Westlife even exist anymore?

― Tuomas, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:16 (5 years ago) Permalink

highlights:

"...bands like westlife who can, quite frankly, go screw themselves with a rusty spoon and get tetanus"

"had nirvana not signed to sub pop... we would probably never have heard one of the most influential artists of our time and dave grohl may have never founded the foo fighters."

the pathos!

― jed_, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:17 (5 years ago) Permalink

but the democratization of criticism basically leaves us with this sort of landscape (coughcoughP.E.W.cough).

democratization of criticism = people slagging this shit off just because they can rather than for any constructive cause. it's just easy target practice, who gives a shit? no-one/nothing is ever going to stop under-grads inheriting these absurd ideas about 'how things should be' in the music industry. surely we've all read this same article many times in the past.

i'm just more relieved than ever my music writing from college days was too soon for blog-era internet heh.

― blueski, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:19 (5 years ago) Permalink

"had nirvana not signed to sub pop... we would probably never have heard of..." Sub Pop.

― NickB, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:21 (5 years ago) Permalink

Was there ever a thread for people to post their own abysmal juvenile music writings from uni days?

― Michael Philip Philip Philip philip Annoyman, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:21 (5 years ago) Permalink

Not that I'd post on it, my capsule reviews of Kinesis singles were all fuckin bang-on.

― Michael Philip Philip Philip philip Annoyman, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:21 (5 years ago) Permalink

perhaps one day i will post my 8/10 track by track review of 'Be Here Now' from the time.

― blueski, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:24 (5 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, you real writers are all jealous that you've lost the ability to write like that, aren't you?

― StanM, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:26 (5 years ago) Permalink

I wrote a two-part article in my uni paper called "Rhythm & Sound", which basically stated that all rock music that's based on melody or lyrics is boring crap, and that beats and sound are the essential components of good music - hence electronic dance music (and fusion jazz) is the best music there is. I got some angry comments from the indie kids.

― Tuomas, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:27 (5 years ago) Permalink

Kudos on sticking it to Westlife, tho, Jonny Garrett of Exeter University.

and kudos to you lot for bravely and relentlessly going after such a signifivcant target as jonny garrett. sure showed him!

ts being one of many thick students w/ bad music taste who can't write, vs being someone who actually gives a shit about what said student writes in some minor student rag

or, matt'n'steve otm, u r all losers

― lex pretend, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:27 (5 years ago) Permalink

but the democratization of criticism basically leaves us with this sort of landscape (coughcoughP.E.W.cough).

student newspapers have nothing to do with the "democratization of criticism"

― Curt1s Stephens, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:28 (5 years ago) Permalink

I can't copy and paste from the Exeter Expose, but if you Google you can find a review where our Jonny talks about "Indy music".

― Dom Passantino, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:28 (5 years ago) Permalink

also why do nearly all student newspaper writers write in what feels like the same voice? there's certain syntax and word choices that only student newspapers ever seem to have.

paul please, please tell me you don't actually care about the answer to this

― lex pretend, Monday, 18 June 2007 13:29 (5 years ago) Permalink

yeah it was a half-joking allusion to that.

― dat neggy nilmar (wins), Monday, 18 March 2013 18:02 (2 months ago) Permalink

Hand up. I imagine that when I hit the jackpot I'll print it off and blu tak it on the wall next to my Pseud's Corner appearance.

― Doran, Monday, 18 March 2013 19:11 (2 months ago) Permalink

British Rock - Forgotten Heroes & Where We Went Wrong (Palma Violets, The Strokes, Muse Feature)

― congratulations on yet another award and i loved your baseball cap (DJ Mencap), Friday, 22 March 2013 19:07 (2 months ago) Permalink

― congratulations on yet another award and i loved your baseball cap (DJ Mencap), Friday, 22 March 2013 19:10 (2 months ago) Permalink

Hands up if you have mostly given up music writing but you still check this thread to make sure you're not busted on something stupid you wrote recently or long ago

O/

― @GracieLoPan #fyi (Display Name (this cannot be changed):), Monday, March 18, 2013 7:17 AM (4 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

My music writings are probably the worst I've ever read, but I still write them, for myself. I do share them online, but obviously they're so bad no one comments on them.

What I find funny is the surprising amount of music writing that people consider to be 'good', yet when compared to those they find 'bad', they offer very little difference in their approach or concept. It usually sounds more like, "I like this dude's writing better and think this other piece is utter shite" (hyperbole included), but they display this preference simply because they don't like the other 'shit piece' because they just don't agree with it--with very ambiguous justifications.

For me, the only music writing I enjoy reading these days is writing that tries to put music in historical context or within a certain movement or artistic group. More of a study of, rather than an opinion on the value of art/music as a representation of a given society/time/movement/expression, because this last bit seems to be so arbitrary. The worst (read, cheesiest) things in art/music have been influential in pop/mainstream culture, yet some were or have been discarded by 'critics' because of a so-called 'inherently' poor artistic/musical expression; that is, they made a value judgement or imposed a truth value on statements which do not have truth values (in terms of logic).

Sorry to go on a tangent. I might just be really disconnected with contemporary musical thought/criticism.

― kafkaesque (c21m50nh3x460n), Friday, 22 March 2013 19:27 (2 months ago) Permalink

Hooray, Elizabeth Wurtzel's back!

I wonder if there will ever be another rock star. Probably not. Axl Rose was the last one in the sense of having a drug problem, dating a centerfold, showing up onstage at Madison Square Garden two hours and 15 minutes late to an audience that continued to sit and wait. No one would sit and wait anymore. Too exhausted. And the whole point is to post that it happened on Facebook, not to have the experience. Kurt Cobain was an anti-rock star. That was good too. Eminem: maybe. Jay-Z is a businessman—it’s not that he isn’t talented, but he is a professional, the kingpin of an entertainment conglomerate. The opposite of a rock star is a professional. He is the platform and the content. And really, ideally you are the platform, even if that makes you inanimate: People now form lines around the corner not to buy a new album but because a new iPhone is out. Then they use it to send text messages mostly, or to do something they could have done two devices ago, but in any case the wait begins at 4:45 a.m. Which is to say that the party is over. Or maybe standing there as the dark of night becomes the light of day and the Apple Store opens for business is the fun part. Steve Jobs was weirdly both a rock star and a professional, so it figures he would check out before this got any worse.

There is nothing like lying in bed listening to music. Sometimes it’s better on a sun-drenched happy day; sometimes I prefer the cool gray winter sky. There is nothing better still than a Sunday morning in Greenwich Village under the covers with Blonde on Blonde playing. You could fake the experience in another city or even in another part of this city, and maybe it would even be the same—but when it comes to sensual matters, the details count. And it really works. I have been spending Sundays with Dylan for a long time now. I have done it in cassette and vinyl and CD and mp3, because it doesn’t matter. (This point is so obvious that it is necessarily parenthetical: Nothing sounds better than an LP, but nothing feels better than not having to flip it over three times.) What matters is that there are people who may get their clients a consistent 12 percent return on investment and there are others who run corporate empires, but I am sure their lives are not anywhere near as rich as mine is, because they don’t know what I know. Just being a great listener to music has made my life impossibly sweet. And all the while, it has kept me clear of any of the many industries that are really just hastening civilization’s decline. Or maybe it has kept me in my nightgown. I have many lovely lacy nightgowns.

― 誤訳侮辱, Sunday, 7 April 2013 22:49 (1 month ago) Permalink

ew, thank you

― I have many lovely lacy nightgowns (contenderizer), Monday, 8 April 2013 00:02 (1 month ago) Permalink

Yeah, but you mustums read the whole thing.

― dow, Monday, 8 April 2013 00:11 (1 month ago) Permalink

From the comments:

I really love this article. It makes me want to go home and lay in bed and listen to coldplay.

― Badmotorfinger Debate Club (MFB), Monday, 8 April 2013 05:56 (1 month ago) Permalink

People now form lines around the corner not to buy a new album

― kinder, Monday, 8 April 2013 07:53 (1 month ago) Permalink

1,974-word article about doing nothing. Proust this is not. Not even in the suburbs of Simon Barnes.

― Here he is with the classic "Poème Électronique." Good track (Marcello Carlin), Monday, 8 April 2013 08:37 (1 month ago) Permalink

Whatever you think of the album in question, this is such a horribly witless, inept hatchet job. The byline photo really caps it off.

http://www.offthetracks.co.nz/willy-moon-heres-willy-moon/

― Deafening silence (DL), Tuesday, 9 April 2013 14:01 (1 month ago) Permalink

That's so hacky and awful I'm surprised it wasn't published on Collapse Board.

― 誤訳侮辱, Tuesday, 9 April 2013 14:13 (1 month ago) Permalink

I really liked that single...

― they all are afflicted with a sickness of existence (Scik Mouthy), Tuesday, 9 April 2013 14:27 (1 month ago) Permalink

I like Willy Moon but I didn't want to get into the pros and cons of the record. Even if it was indeed the worst album of 2013 it would be better than that review. Nothing sadder than seeing someone huffing and puffing to deliver a killer hatchet job only to drop the axe on his foot.

― Deafening silence (DL), Tuesday, 9 April 2013 14:55 (1 month ago) Permalink

I don't hate Elizabeth Wurtzel's recent blogging. It's not especially good, but it feels honest.

― --808 542137 (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 9 April 2013 15:14 (1 month ago) Permalink

Faint praise to warm any writer's heart.

― Deafening silence (DL), Tuesday, 9 April 2013 15:18 (1 month ago) Permalink

:)

― --808 542137 (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 9 April 2013 15:48 (1 month ago) Permalink

I mean, people have feelings about music, and there's this tendency on ILM to reflexively dismiss most such feelings (other than exaggerated poptimist enthusiasm) because they're not adequately problematized, or something. I don't really like her writing, but I like the sentiment well enough.

― --808 542137 (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 9 April 2013 15:50 (1 month ago) Permalink

I agree. I can't get angry about her.

― Deafening silence (DL), Tuesday, 9 April 2013 16:26 (1 month ago) Permalink

she kind of reminds me of my sad aunt who lived a pretty amazing life but is now alone and depressed and says wistful things all the time about having "the memories to comfort her" -- full of pathos, not really objectionable

― --808 542137 (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 9 April 2013 16:37 (1 month ago) Permalink

Just filing the Tiny Mix Tapes Knife review here for posterity

http://www.tinymixtapes.com/music-review/the-knife-shaking-the-habitual

― Deafening silence (DL), Wednesday, 10 April 2013 12:25 (1 month ago) Permalink

That writer's whole catalogue appears to be Worst Music Writing gold.

― Trans-Europe Stopping Train (ithappens), Wednesday, 10 April 2013 12:58 (1 month ago) Permalink

they are responsible for a heterogeneous garland
um

― gr8 tr∞lls i have known (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 10 April 2013 13:58 (1 month ago) Permalink

I salute anyone who can write a line like this without thinking oh, wait, hang on a minute…

"Absorbing the girth of this behemoth in one fell swoop is rigorous and harrowing"

― Deafening silence (DL), Wednesday, 10 April 2013 14:10 (1 month ago) Permalink

unless you're a power bottom

― pea hen (clouds), Wednesday, 10 April 2013 14:12 (1 month ago) Permalink

Holy shit, that whole article is

― bizarro gazzara, Thursday, 11 April 2013 14:21 (1 month ago) Permalink

^ I'll have what he's having

― Devendra Bumhat (sic), Thursday, 11 April 2013 14:23 (1 month ago) Permalink

That Willy Moon review... jesus.

This album dresses up vacuous in its mother’s clothes then takes it out on a date.

This album masturbates on to its own cover then rubs in whatever lands because it might help to maintain the sheen.

This album is certainly unique. (That’s not a compliment).

Like the random, half-formed scribblings I type into my iphone notes between snoozes on the train.

― pssstttt, Hey you (dog latin), Thursday, 11 April 2013 14:47 (1 month ago) Permalink

Killer parenthesis. "Unique? That sounds like a compliment! Oh wait, ya got me."

― Deafening silence (DL), Thursday, 11 April 2013 14:49 (1 month ago) Permalink

The main problem is approaching via wads of press material, which is painfully presented by this reviewer, and can make it seem like you've got to refer to this stuff while listening, to justify the musicians' presentation. Better to start with Clocking in at 97 minutes, this 3xLP has not been recorded with the ease of amiable track-hopping in mind, its purpose built for a single sitting., which makes the initial presentation's main point much more succinctly--but the rest of the graf argues that listeners being "obliged" to listen a certain way is a good thing----which will soon run into the beginning of the next graf The songs come in a variety of forms, destined to instigate cherry picking the “best bits” for the next subway trek Press tidbits-wise,I do like the mention of The Knife recording sounds so you can't tell the source, then telling exactly what the source is--but, still playing editor, I'd ask the writer if this kind of humor comes across in any of the music, as one way of getting past press sheet-directed conceptualism and sweeping swooping overviews, though "girth of the behemoth" is kinda fun.

― dow, Thursday, 11 April 2013 15:11 (1 month ago) Permalink

I think this should be included on this list:

"Bauer remains focused on developing Q's editorial proposition to increase the brand's relevancy for mainstream music fans with a view to building exciting new properties out of a strong magazine product."

― maura, Thursday, 11 April 2013 15:27 (1 month ago) Permalink

"relevancy for"

― pssstttt, Hey you (dog latin), Thursday, 11 April 2013 15:36 (1 month ago) Permalink

"magazine product" -- this is the worst kind of business-speak -- redundantly adding a word like "product" to try to elevate something beyond what it is.

― --808 542137 (Hurting 2), Thursday, 11 April 2013 15:37 (1 month ago) Permalink

took me a while to realize we weren't talking about the harlem shake guy.

― Chuck E was a hero to most (s.clover), Thursday, 11 April 2013 16:09 (1 month ago) Permalink

if we were, it would be a great sentence!

― Chuck E was a hero to most (s.clover), Thursday, 11 April 2013 16:09 (1 month ago) Permalink

i feel like the majority of tiny mix tapes reviews i have read are mind-bogglingly terrible (check out their farrah abraham one sometime)

― teddy dominatrix (dyl), Thursday, 11 April 2013 16:29 (1 month ago) Permalink

"elevate"

― the white queen and her caustic judgments (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 11 April 2013 16:58 (1 month ago) Permalink

http://woundedbyechords.tumblr.com/post/48147751615/paramore-selt-titled-an-album-review

― the Shearer of simulated snowsex etc. (Dwight Yorke), Sunday, 21 April 2013 22:20 (1 month ago) Permalink

For some reason I was interested in what Matthew Friedberger might have to say about Vampire Weekend but this is unreadable. Surely nobody will ever get to the end of it.

http://thetalkhouse.com/reviews/view/matthew-friedberger-vampire-weekend

― Eyeball Kicks, Wednesday, 15 May 2013 12:20 (1 week ago) Permalink

I won't mention the American Express UNSTAGED: Vampire Weekend with Steve Buscemi video comedy show. I typed "video comedy show" because it was meant to be funny… yes?
But since I've mentioned it already: when "Director Steve Buscemi meets Vampire Weekend for the first time, and offers some interesting advice on how to raise their profile," as American Express UNSTAGED told us on April 16, 2013.............................................

― Public Brooding Closet (cryptosicko), Wednesday, 15 May 2013 12:34 (1 week ago) Permalink

shocker, he writes prose the same way he writes songs

― society is a lol, it makes me j/k to my friends (some dude), Wednesday, 15 May 2013 12:36 (1 week ago) Permalink

God, that is appalling.

― emil.y, Wednesday, 15 May 2013 12:46 (1 week ago) Permalink

I don't know if this is 'about vampire weekend' in any conventional sense.

― stefon taylor swiftboat (s.clover), Wednesday, 15 May 2013 13:10 (1 week ago) Permalink

This opening paragraph (from Pitchfork's review of Venetian Snares - Huge Chrome Cylinder Box Unfolding) is unbeatable for its unbridled pomposity and ludicrous false dichotomy:

"A great schism has gradually formed in the orthodox church of the glitch and IDM scene. Of one doctrine is the Matmos/Oval/Mouse on Mars school, based around clicks, squelches and skips, in which musicians struggle to merge our fleshy, imperfect world with that of bent circuitry and drum machines. On the other side are those such as Autechre and Richard Devine, who program crystal-clear computer assaults directly into the listener's brain, with no patience for human warmth or error. While the first are an elusive breed of rarefied souls with mild artistic aspirations, the second are the kids who once survived on Mortal Kombat, Jolt Cola, and Dune, all grown up and ready to overload your conscious mind. And if, at the moment, electro-acoustician Fennesz and musique-concrete practitioners The Books are at one end of the scale, Canada's Aaron Funk (aka Venetian Snares) is providing the counterbalance."

Barf.

― aonghus, Wednesday, 15 May 2013 13:29 (1 week ago) Permalink

"Matthew Friedberger, a Chicagoan born in 1972, is unemployed. He has no degrees or credentials of any kind."

Surely he isn't sustaining himself via checks from solo work and Fiery Furnaces? Is that possible?

― Evan, Wednesday, 15 May 2013 13:32 (1 week ago) Permalink

"You simply must come over to dinner. Yes? No? My wife is making the most delightful...well, some will say that, I won't go into it here suffice it to say that we have not yet been disappointed by them...burgers. Would you care, oh that's such a terrible way to put it, but surely you know what I mean, to come over?"

― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 15 May 2013 15:24 (1 week ago) Permalink

He writes like David Mamet after a stroke.

― Huston we got chicken lol (Phil D.), Wednesday, 15 May 2013 15:28 (1 week ago) Permalink

lol that's perfect

― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 15 May 2013 15:29 (1 week ago) Permalink

I'm impressed that he's into Shake It Up.

― wk, Wednesday, 15 May 2013 15:31 (1 week ago) Permalink