JUAN SOTO seems like a big deal

Best OBP before age-21 (min. 550 PAs):
1. Ted Williams - .436
2. Mel Ott - .414
3. John McGraw - .412
4. Jimmie Foxx - .410
5. Juan Soto - .402https://t.co/mgTtlNrgK5

— Baseball Reference (@baseball_ref) April 18, 2019

20yo Juan Soto's MLB career SLG > 20yo Vlad Jr's career MLB OPS

geez give VGJ more than a week

my brain kept trying to read that acronym as jeff van gundy

future dh

He's now played 162 games:

292/.402/.519 with 31 homers, 107 runs & 107 RBI.

what were Trout's first 162? can someone PlayIndex that?

https://moretalk.wordpress.com/2012/09/15/mike-trout-the-first-162-games/

.309/.374/.531 (accomplished while 2 years older than Soto)

that's a very impressive line from trout, too, considering that his first 40 games (during his rookie 2011) he slashed vajazzled .220/.281/.390

Two homers today. Soto won't come anywhere near Trout's 10.5 WAR in his age-20 season (defense and juiced ball, among other things), but his raw offensive totals in many categories are going to match or surpass Trout's.

Juan Soto (@Nationals) is the 3rd player in MLB history to hit 50 home runs before turning 21 years old, joining Mel Ott (61) and Tony Conigliaro (56). pic.twitter.com/qjMLcRG8si

— ESPN Stats & Info (@ESPNStatsInfo) August 18, 2019

Soto's got such a nice fluid swing, I would not be surprised if he starts hitting over .300 at some point.

Nats have hit the draft lottery twice in a short time, pretty nice to be able to replace Harper pretty much straight up with perhaps a higher ceiling.

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/juan-soto-becomes-first-nl-player-to-hit-30-home-runs-in-a-season-before-age-21-since-frank-robinson/

Soto's got such a nice fluid swing, I would not be surprised if he starts hitting over .300 at some point.

― earlnash, Sunday, August 18, 2019 5:21 PM (two weeks ago)

prescient post

Lifted this from Sports Illustrated:

And because Soto has a Baseball Reference-calculated Wins Above Replacement mark of 5.0 and Acuña is at 4.8, they are, in all likelihood, going to end up on this short list of pairs of players under 22 to share a 5-WAR season:

Donie Bush (6.5) and Tris Speaker (6.3), 1909
Jimmie Foxx (7.9) and Mel Ott (7.4), 1929
Eddie Mathews (8.3) and Mickey Mantle (5.8), 1953
Al Kaline (8.2) and Hank Aaron (6.3), 1955
Frank Robinson (6.6) and Kaline (6.5), 1956
Trout (10.5) and Harper (5.2), 2012
Trout (9.0) and Machado (6.7), 2013

that trout guy was good

That was the premise of the SI piece I took that from: that Acuña/Soto are the new Trout/Harper (acknowledging that the latter is a non-issue now).

Devers (22) has a fWAR of 5.5 (ie, higher than Acuna & Soto)

or wait is it <=22 or <22?

wow that's a very impressive list of HOFers, future HOFers, some guy named Donie Bush, and Bryce Harper.

Per Baseball-Reference, Soto joins Alex Rodriguez, Ruben Sierra and Jose Canseco as the only major-league hitters in the last 50 years to record a 30-homer, 100-RBI, 10-steal season before their age 22 season.

I don't really understand his contract status:

Signed thru 2019, Earliest Arb Eligible: 2022, Earliest Free Agent: 2025

If he's only signed through this season but not eligible for arbitration until 2022, what does that mean for 2020 and 2021?

i'm not sure about the technical/legal background but it's similar for other pre-arb players. soto is definitely under team control through 2022

by "similar" i mean you'll see the same kind of contract status for other pre-arb players

Thanks. Baseball Reference should make that clearer...if they control him until 2022, why not just say "signed through 2021." There's almost an implication of the old reserve-clause system there, where the Nationals can just renew him for whatever they want in 2020/21.

hey clemenza, just noticed that fangraphs has updated their contract summary pages for each team. i don't know what you usually refer to for that kind of information, but to me this is pretty much the easiest and simplest way to get it. here's the page for the nats:

https://www.fangraphs.com/roster-resource/payroll/nationals

and here's more info: https://blogs.fangraphs.com/instagraphs/introducing-rosterresource-payroll-pages/

One of the things that makes Juan Soto special is his mature approach at the plate. The Nationals outfielder may not be able to legally buy alcohol in the United States, but he doesn’t just have the discipline of a seasoned vet, he has the discipline of Joey Votto in his prime. A 15 percent walk rate would be good for anyone, but it’s incredible for someone who is younger than OK Computer.

His low chase rate is the primary driver of his ability to draw a walk, but Soto has another strategy he employs. When the count reaches two strikes, Soto crouches down lower to shrink his strike zone.

https://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2019/9/4/20848679/juan-soto-washington-nationals-two-strike-crouch-robot-umps

Kinda faded a bit over the last 2 weeks of the season, but can now add "clutch postseason heroics" to his CV.

Juan Soto is the second youngest player in postseason history to have a WPA over .500 in a game.

The youngest, Miguel Cabrera, did it in Game 4 of the 2003 NLDS, a series-clinching game but not an elimination one https://t.co/XL00s8G42k pic.twitter.com/kPjbewAa9k

— Baseball Reference (@baseball_ref) October 2, 2019

<3

https://sports.theonion.com/juan-soto-sheepishly-asks-group-of-nationals-fans-enter-1838887733

so did Miggy or Cobb homer as a WS cleanup hitter under 21?

Youngest to hit a World Series home run: Andruw Jones, 19 years, 180 days; Miguel Cabrera, 20 years, 187 days; Mickey Mantle, 20 years, 352 days; Juan Soto, 20 years, 362 days.

Soto & Jones are the only <20 year olds to hit a HR in their WS debut.

Nats Dominican academy pic.twitter.com/vLIoQLrWF5

— johnny (@dipuglia) October 23, 2019

Happy birthday, Juan Soto!

We will adjust our World Series content accordingly. pic.twitter.com/jAICJ0t14q

— Baseball America (@BaseballAmerica) October 25, 2019

Watching Juan Soto lash a beautiful oppo homer this afternoon is as good a reason as any to gaze in wonder yet again at his career XBH spray chart. pic.twitter.com/g3RJlP7H6D

— Andrew Simon (@AndrewSimonMLB) February 25, 2020

cardinals broadcast made sure to keep track of how long his home run trot was (25.5 seconds)

iirc last week when someone asked him what his goals for spring training were, he said 'to make the team'

otm

i think he will probably make the team

*crosses fingers*

positive for COVID

After being away from the team for ten days due to a positive COVID-19 test, Juan Soto returned to the Nationals on Saturday and joined the team for a workout at Nats Park. “For me, in my mind, I think it was a [false] positive,” he said. “I’ve been working on it. I tested a bunch of times negative. Following the rules, being in the right spot. I think that’s why I think it’s a [false] positive because I’ve been following the rules. I’ve been really serious with this. It’s out there. But, for me, they can look at me however they want. I’m going to be the same guy.”

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/nationals/juan-soto-rejoins-nationals-nationals-park

Activated from the IL but not in the starting lineup...?

Maybe need a Fernando Tatis Jr. thread to parallel this one (born about two months later).

Go for it, lots of lesser players have dedicated threads.

I'm the guy who jumped the gun on Carlos Correa.

Jumping the Gun: the Carlos Correa Thread

Or you could do a poll like TROUT V. HARPER but throw in Acuña as another option?

I mean...

FREE HUNTER PENCE!!!

Yankees cop adjacency biting them in the ass, finally

I mean it was the money, but that stuck out as a strange detail for Heyman to include so who knows

Juan Soto is Rizz Approved‼️🤫🤔😎🫡

— The Rizzler (@Da_Rizzler419) December 9, 2024

I was just wondering about that 🤔

Xp yankee security:

No one can tell me this isn't the plot of a Seinfeld episode. George fubs the signing of the century by not letting the superstar w/ family into in the employee only section of the stadium; smarmy grin, fade to black. Love them Yanks

just comparing that yearly salary vs Judge is crazy. i don't see how Soto (being an elite hitter, meh base runner, garbage fielder) is worth over 25% more than Judge. it's madness. probably Judge took a hometown discount vs what he might have gotten elsewhere, but still

MLB regular season games played before age 26:

Juan Soto: 936
Aaron Judge: 182
Shohei Ohtani: 266

MLB postseason stats:

Juan Soto: .285/.421/.532 (.953 OPS)
Aaron Judge: .205/.318/.450 (.768 OPS)
Shohei Ohtani: .230/.373/.393 (.766 OPS)

https://i.postimg.cc/Y0NBBcC5/juan.jpg

The "one more thing" is flair.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/insider/story/_/id/42913097/juan-soto-new-york-met-story-record-contract

alright who’s got the insider sub??

Click reader if you’re on your phone & it should work

I didn’t watch the Soto presser but supposedly he said none of the Yankees were in touch after the WS? That seems so strange.

agreed. wonder if there's a lack of leadership/comradery in the club house. or maybe just no one liked the guy?!

They wanted him back pretty badly, so if that was the case they should have put that aside. Soto & Judge was the best offensive duo in the league, their numbers might have been historical iirc? It might be the organisational approach; the article says that Hal Steinbrenner’s relationship with him was more passive, Steinbrenner wanted to give him space during the season. But that is not necessarily how it came across per the piece.

That might be the most boring "insider story of ____" articles I've ever read. Boras did Boras stuff and got big money for his client, one team is happy, others aren't. Big deal.

Thanks for your input.

https://nypost.com/2024/12/15/sports/how-juan-soto-steve-cohen-celebrated-their-765-million-mets-pact/

After getting started with a mozzarella and tomato salad, Soto went for the ribeye cooked “medium-plus,” per the report.

smh

🚮

I saw a video once where players were asked how they ordered their steak and it was like a sea of well done and medium well done.

most baseball players are hillbillies

He just turned 26 years old... Give him some time to develop his palate.

juan soto in june: .325/.485/.753

is not wildly unlike aaron judge in 2025: .361/.461/.719

In a subpar year, headed for 7.0 WAR (and not because of his fielding prowess) and a 150 OPS+.

Wasn't there a thread that compared VGJr, FTJr and Soto?

At any rate, as posted by u/Juan_Soto_Stats (not me):

https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/1m0qqkk/juan_soto_is_only_26_how_are_his_career_numbers/

ah it was our northern neighbo(u)r Clemenza:

I compared Tatis/Soto/Acuna for a Facebook post (pro-rated for 162 games):

Tatis: 44 HR, 31 SB, .301/.374/.582, 154 OPS+, 7.9 WAR
Soto: 36 HR, 12 SB, .295/.415/.557, 151 OPS+, 5.0 WAR
Acuna: 42 HR, 32 SB, .281/.371/.538 133 OPS+, 6.3 WAR

I was trying to think of three players this good at the same age (22/23--the range between Tatis and Acuna is a year and 15 days). I thought of Griffey/Thomas/Bonds, but Bonds was four or five years older than them; if you put aside what we know now, Griffey/Thomas/Gonzalez might be comparable. It's possible you'd have to go back to Mays/Aaron/Mantle, although Aaron was three years younger than the other two.

― clemenza, Friday, February 19, 2021 3:37 AM (four years ago)

He's only played 75 games, but Bo Bichette--between Soto and Acuna in age--actually falls more or less within the same range:

Bichette: 35 HR, 17 SB, .307/.347/.549, 137 OPS+, 6.9 WAR

― clemenza, Friday, February 19, 2021 4:39 AM (four years ago)

4 years later check-in:

Soto: .283/.418/.530 - 39.3 fWAR/40.3 bWAR - 158 WRC+/160 OPS+
AcunaJr: .291/.382/.528 - 30.6 fWAR/28.0 bWAR - 143 WRC+/141 OPS+
TatisJr: .278/.353/.521 - 24.5 fWAR/25.6 bWAR - 137 WRC+/138 OPS+
VladJr: .287/.365/.494 - 18.7 fWAR/24.1 bWAR - 136 WRC+/136 OPS+
BBichJr: .289/.331/.463 - 18.0 fWAR/19.1 bWAR - 118 WRC+/118 OPS+

was genuinely surprised at Bichette tbh, either that or fangraphs really doesn't love VladJr (does fangraphs incorporate more accurate park factors into their modeling?)

could be defence. there seems to be some difference of opinions whether Vlad is a great defender or very mediocre.

I'm actually amazed that Vlad is still there with Tatis Jr.--the latter to me is a much more dangerous hitter. (But I guess numbers don't lie.)

Now that I look at it, Tatis's last three seasons are markedly inferior to his first three.

He seemed to play better with the ringworms.

Performance enhancing infection

There is a nice symmetry to his BRef career box: three HOF seasons at the top, three good-everyday-player (and sometimes AS) seasons at the bottom, with this strange "Did not play - injury and PED suspension" row smack in the middle...