jazz

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sometimes it's really good.

ethan, Friday, 1 March 2002 01:00 (nineteen years ago) link

But, lately, it is sometimes not.

Dan I., Friday, 1 March 2002 01:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Sometimes all the notes give me a headache. I prefer a dense wall of noise. But there is a happy medium.

Keiko, Friday, 1 March 2002 01:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Lots is very good. I particularly recommend Louis Prima (for those unfamiliar, the voice of King Louis in The Jungle Book, singing I Wanna Be Like You) in the late-50s when he decided he had to up the energy level to compete with rock 'n' roll.

Martin Skidmore, Saturday, 2 March 2002 01:00 (nineteen years ago) link

I like it smoooooooth. Like butter, or Philadelphia-brand Whipped Cream Cheese.

adam, Saturday, 2 March 2002 01:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Most of it is shit because it's dead.

Julio Desouza, Saturday, 2 March 2002 01:00 (nineteen years ago) link

i like it crazed and manic .

anthony, Saturday, 2 March 2002 01:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Isn't jazz just a bunch of people trying to play stuff that isn't classical music ie trying to play non-western folk harmonies and rhythms and stuff, but not actually realising that and playing western harmonies and rhythms and sometimes, critics even make the mistake of thinking that they look like non-westerners so it mustn't be western music? Why don't people just listen to weird folk music and crazy people and try singing themselves if they want to hear fucked up stuff?

maryann, Saturday, 2 March 2002 01:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Lester? Are you back from the dead?

Ned Raggett, Saturday, 2 March 2002 01:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Jazz is certainly not dead. But it can be boring sometimes. And it can be really, really good.

Jordan, Saturday, 2 March 2002 01:00 (nineteen years ago) link

m -- they do because of CLASS.

Sterling Clover, Sunday, 3 March 2002 01:00 (nineteen years ago) link

music - sometimes it's really good.

I think I'm going to start sending him fifths in order to ensure that ILM remains interesting.

matthew m., Saturday, 9 March 2002 01:00 (nineteen years ago) link

This thread is an embarrassment to ILM, and to the memory of Armstrong, Ayler, Coltrane, Monk, Mingus, Sun Ra and to thousands of other artists. Let's end it here class. Tonight's homework: brush up on the basics: see jazz 101 ....very sad.

Bob, Sunday, 10 March 2002 01:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Bob, the concept of 'sarcasm' appears to elude you.

Ned Raggett, Sunday, 10 March 2002 01:00 (nineteen years ago) link

amd what about the concept of 'heavy drinking', Ned?

Mitch Lastnamewithheld, Sunday, 10 March 2002 01:00 (nineteen years ago) link

*hic* How DARE yoush imply that... *collapses*

Ned Raggett, Sunday, 10 March 2002 01:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Ned...still a sucky thread , sarcasm aside. Like I said, let's end it here. Get off the floor, I buy ya one.

Bob

Bob, Sunday, 10 March 2002 01:00 (nineteen years ago) link

sarcasm? mitch is right, i don't even remember posting this.

ethan, Monday, 11 March 2002 01:00 (nineteen years ago) link

six years pass...

I thought that there was a long running jazz thread smehwhere but I can't seem to find it. Anyway I've been listening to jazz now for several years after ignoring it my entire life. I bought Wes Montgomery's Smokin' at the Half Note which is really fantastic and I can't say enough good things about it. The band he plays with, the Wyton Kelly Trio, is also (equally) great but Wynton Kelly only seems to have one album and from the cuts I've heard it's worth getting as well. Maybe some recommendations on some things Wynton has been involved with? Also any jazz stuff you might like post about.

brownie, Friday, 12 December 2008 22:50 (twelve years ago) link

This one with the annoying title (sorry)?--

"If That Arm Heals, It Ought To Be Broken Again" 2008 Jazz D Minor Bags Thread

_Rockist__Scientist_, Friday, 12 December 2008 22:52 (twelve years ago) link

i think he's on hank mobley's soul station, which is one of my all-time faves. there are also some live miles davis records from when he was in the band.

Tracy Michael Jordan Catalano (Jordan), Friday, 12 December 2008 22:57 (twelve years ago) link

The band he plays with, the Wyton Kelly Trio, is also (equally) great but Wynton Kelly only seems to have one album and from the cuts I've heard it's worth getting as well. Maybe some recommendations on some things Wynton has been involved with?
― brownie, Friday, December 12, 2008 5:50 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark

Miles Davis at the Blackhawk. Seriously.

Also he's on one track of Kind of Blue and either some or all of Someday My Prince Will Come

Indiespace Administratester (Hurting 2), Friday, 12 December 2008 23:01 (twelve years ago) link

Oh yeah, Soul Station is really good.

Indiespace Administratester (Hurting 2), Friday, 12 December 2008 23:01 (twelve years ago) link

Don't forget this thread for some background: What's with that constant cymbal tapping in jazz drumming?

Ruudside Picnic (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 12 December 2008 23:01 (twelve years ago) link

there's a record Wynton Kelly made with Steve Lacy on Status that is pretty good.

ian, Saturday, 13 December 2008 04:57 (twelve years ago) link

one year passes...

90s sax production sux

yes that means u, branford

it ain't trickin if yo gotti (The Reverend), Saturday, 24 April 2010 11:11 (eleven years ago) link

which doesn't mean "Some Cow Fonque" isn't 80x classic, but still

it ain't trickin if yo gotti (The Reverend), Saturday, 24 April 2010 11:13 (eleven years ago) link

four years pass...

does anyone know of a good blog or site where they might discuss certain bits of jazz music in depth, but maybe in not too academic a way? I'd love to read a breakdown of Lonely Woman or Pharoah's Dance or something, but not assuming I know a great deal about technique and theory?

Shepard Toney Album (dog latin), Monday, 20 October 2014 08:59 (six years ago) link

one year passes...

hey can someone help me find the following jazz album: cover is a picture of the artist reading an economics textbook (Samuelson Economics) as the album art? called 'college cool' or something to that effect

flopson, Wednesday, 28 October 2015 01:54 (five years ago) link

I don't know what it is, but I'm lolling

on entre O.K. on sort K.O. (man alive), Wednesday, 28 October 2015 03:14 (five years ago) link

four years pass...

hey flopson i realize this post is from four years ago but i think this might be the album you meant?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rah_(Mark_Murphy_album)

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 7 November 2019 07:07 (one year ago) link

Love that album. Hadn’t looked closely at the cover, and never understood the meaning of the title until now, d’oh!

Irae Louvin (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 7 November 2019 10:16 (one year ago) link

great genre

ogmor, Thursday, 7 November 2019 10:17 (one year ago) link

love jazz cats

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 7 November 2019 18:33 (one year ago) link

🤗

Irae Louvin (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 7 November 2019 19:43 (one year ago) link

count me in as a 'jazz nut'

the public eating of beans (Sparkle Motion), Thursday, 7 November 2019 19:55 (one year ago) link

Money isn't the only issue musicians have with Jazz At Five: Moran says that event organizers chastised pianist Ben Sidran for criticizing Scott Walker during a performance at the series a few years ago.

I was very confused by this sentence until I realized which Scott Walker they presumably meant.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 7 November 2019 20:29 (one year ago) link

The original version of "My Favourite Things" on the session featured hip lyrics, including lines like "Ol' Ernie Wilkins he sure gives you wings", but these new lyrics were deemed inappropriate by composer Richard Rodgers and as a result Riverside Records/Mark Murphy were asked to substitute a 'straight' shorter version of it, but with the same arrangement. Another track left off the original album is "I'll Be Seeing You" for much the same reason.

really want to hear these alt takes

budo jeru, Thursday, 7 November 2019 20:45 (one year ago) link

The original version of "My Favourite Things" on the session featured hip lyrics, including lines like "Ol' Ernie Wilkins he sure gives you wings", but these new lyrics were deemed inappropriate by composer Richard Rodgers and as a result Riverside Records/Mark Murphy were asked to substitute a 'straight' shorter version of it, but with the same arrangement. Another track left off the original album is "I'll Be Seeing You" for much the same reason.

really want to hear these alt takes

budo jeru, Thursday, 7 November 2019 20:45 (one year ago) link

love that jazz

marcos, Thursday, 7 November 2019 21:04 (one year ago) link

great stuff! its like dark jazz but jazzier and not as dark

chips moomin (unregistered), Thursday, 7 November 2019 22:37 (one year ago) link

mile's davis

chips moomin (unregistered), Thursday, 7 November 2019 22:38 (one year ago) link

sorry but I prefer jass

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Thursday, 7 November 2019 22:50 (one year ago) link

when it comes to jass, I love all 5 hots

the public eating of beans (Sparkle Motion), Friday, 8 November 2019 03:12 (one year ago) link

👐

Irae Louvin (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 8 November 2019 13:24 (one year ago) link

A lot of people say they like jazz, but I appreciate jazz on a much deeper level than most. For example, when listening to jazz I also pay attention to the notes that are NOT being played.

“Hakuna Matata,” a nihilist philosophy (One Eye Open), Friday, 8 November 2019 17:38 (one year ago) link

one thing I like about this thread is the presence of so many jazzbos

the public eating of beans (Sparkle Motion), Friday, 8 November 2019 18:19 (one year ago) link

there were so many good bass players in jazz that there isn't really such thing as "the greatest" but Ray Brown is up there!

calzino, Monday, 12 April 2021 16:31 (two months ago) link

It's hard to tell what you've heard or not heard Tracer, but the first thing that sprang to mind reading your post was the two volumes of Monk's Genius of Modern Music on Blue Note. Chances are you're already well aware of them, but I've had success playing those for jazz newbies since they're accessible but totally distinctive

rob, Monday, 12 April 2021 16:49 (two months ago) link

man alive as to 'post bop' stuff that i haven't found a way into - people like paul bley? steve lacy? and more recently, which is what got me thinking about this stuff, craig taborn and chris potter. i realise these are all really different people, with different styles, working within and against different traditions so it's ridiculous to lump them all together. i guess something they share in my mind is a preference for improvisation, for contemplation, for 'journeys' rather than heads/solos. but i'm eliding basically everything that people who like them find interesting about them, i realise, and i'm doing it from a place of ignorance as well, which should probably be embarrassing!

xpost i have heard them yes - but not in awhile!

Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Monday, 12 April 2021 16:54 (two months ago) link

re:'basic jazz bitch' - makes me think about how when i was younger i had a lot of friends on the punk/alt/underground rock spectrum who would mercilessly clown me for liking any jazz that didnt immediately code as difficult or subversive. basically anything that was melodic or non-spiritual-hat was the equivalent of the andrews sisters to them, basic bitch stuff for grandpas and r crumb. now all those dudes are in their 40s and 50s and paying heavy coin for 50s blue note pressings.

i get my 'told ya so' licks in sometimes, but its also a blast to finally be able to talk about non-sun ra jazz with these guys and turn them onto stuff like the ellington suites or charlie parker & machito. one aging hardcore pal flipped recently when i was playing the coltrane/johnny hartman album, had no idea that coltrane played 'stuff like that'. its fun.

― nobody like my rap (One Eye Open), Monday, April 12, 2021 11:22 AM (twenty-six minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

In my freshman year of college I almost swung at a guy for pontificating to me about how Charlie Parker was basic and Albert Ayler was more advanced or something. I wish I could remember the exact words he used but it was such a dumb, ignorant take confidently delivered, v much jazzsplaining to a guy who knew about 100x as much about jazz. And I like Albert Ayler. But people with that attitude are kind of doing the equivalent of saying bourbon is better than cabernet because it has more alcohol.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Monday, 12 April 2021 16:55 (two months ago) link

i actually really like a lot of albert ayler!

on an unrelated note, why are there so few UK sources for jazz vinyl on discogs?! everything costs $20 + shipping from the united states or denmark or some shit! probably for the best that i don't get tempted tbh...

Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Monday, 12 April 2021 16:59 (two months ago) link

What about Amazon UK, or is that too evil w the labor practices? The reason I don't order nearly as much from Amazon US anymore.
Oh, and don't wait for summer to watch the beautifully shot, recorded and edited Jazz On A Summer's Day( incl. Chuck Berry times Count Basie Orchestra, just for one highlight).

dow, Monday, 12 April 2021 17:06 (two months ago) link

Maybe try soundsoftheuniverse.com, or their bricks-and-mortar, if you're close enough!

dow, Monday, 12 April 2021 17:07 (two months ago) link

and seeing as Sonny Rollins has been mentioned: Saxophone Colossus, Tenor Madness, Way Out West, The Bridge, on Impulse! You can't go wrong with any of these.

calzino, Monday, 12 April 2021 22:39 (two months ago) link

yes yes and yes!

Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Monday, 12 April 2021 22:46 (two months ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJkyOvXM6ds

xzanfar, Monday, 12 April 2021 22:48 (two months ago) link

I know this may be really basic but have you thought about thumbing through old penguin guides to get a sense of what you might like? I don’t think Brian Morton or the late great RD Cook ever steered me wrong.

In on the killfile (Boring, Maryland), Monday, 12 April 2021 23:22 (two months ago) link

Heh, I used to have this Len Lyon book which I liked.

It Is Dangerous to Meme Inside (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 12 April 2021 23:32 (two months ago) link

That mention of Monk on Blue Note reminds me of early 50s Miles on Blue Note---true, it's tagged as hard bop, but it's early hard bop, protean, even, bubblin' genesis porridge hard bop a little past jump bands and swirling around the zeitgeist ov proto-R&B and R&R, making me jump out of my seat like James Brown--here's a brief Voice piece I wrote about the very live Birdland 1951 (not issued 'til 04; what the hey, Blue Note?):
https://myvil.blogspot.com/2005/12/bop-loves-pop-to-death.html
And this wikipedia entry goes beyond its title, telling about various configs of Miles Davis on Blue Note Vols 1 *and*2 (even mentions 3, which I wasn't aware of), but whatever you can find should be good (I've still got late 80s or early 90s pressings of 1 & 2)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miles_Davis_Volume_2

dow, Monday, 12 April 2021 23:58 (two months ago) link

thanks dow. i'm really liking the miles volume 1. nice and hard and no fuckin around.

in my recent archive trawl i found this great post, about what makes coltrane's solo on giant steps so good:

Search & Destroy: John Coltrane

Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 13 April 2021 10:56 (two months ago) link

i also unearthed this QUITE long thread with lots of QUITE LONG posts from several people who still post here. this was pre-september 11!!

'Jazz': Search and Destroy

Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 13 April 2021 11:07 (two months ago) link

it's mainly about the burns documentary and so it branches into a lot of territories i.e. what makes a good doc etc - but there is a lot of conversation about the music itself, what's "made it" into people's consciousness, what hasn't, etc

Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 13 April 2021 11:08 (two months ago) link

I am very very far from being someone who knows much about jazz, but as a complete diletente listener who mainly listens to recent British jazz, seeing Tracer mention Shabaka Hutchins compels me to recommend the following stuff:

Kaleidscope - Various artists (https://soundsoftheuniverse.com/sjr/product/kaleidoscope_2) awesome Soul Jazz compilation of London(ish) artists, that spans from quite trad stuff to things that seem to ahve little relationship to jazz and a lot to electronic / dance / dubstep / etc etc etc.

Moses Boyd - his debut album from early last year is great, also seek out Rye Lane Shuffle and the compilation that's on

Polar Bear - the band that got me into new British jazz about 15 years ago when they were Mercury Prize nominated. Several albums, all well worth checking out, but their last one (Same As You) is one of my very favourite records of the last decade, easily. There are lots of bands that share personel with Polar Bear and most of them are worth checking out: Acoustic Ladyland, Melt Yourself Down, Pulled By Magnets, Sons of Kemet, The Invisible (who are a rock band but good)

Black Focus by Yusuf Kamal - really fabulous record by keyboardist Kamaal Williams and drummer Yusuf Dayes. They've done stuff since that I've heard its of and thought was alright, but this is proeprly excellent. (I so don't have the vocabulary to write about jazz.)

The debut Empirical album was awesome, but I wasn't into anything they did after.

Portico Quartet, e.s.t., The Blessing / Get The Blessing, all good too.

Hey Bob (Scik Mouthy), Tuesday, 13 April 2021 13:15 (two months ago) link

Was thinking about Polar Bear just the other day, esp. Seb Rochford, and how big* he/they were 10-15 yrs ago, but rarely referenced in discussions of the current UK scene now.

*in contemp. jazz terms, obv.

mahb, Tuesday, 13 April 2021 13:29 (two months ago) link

Well he's bald now, so about a foot smaller than at their peak.

Hey Bob (Scik Mouthy), Tuesday, 13 April 2021 13:48 (two months ago) link

back in the 50's multi instrumentalist (tenor sax, flute, vibes - he was a virtuoso on all of them) Tubby Hayes was about the only UK jazz musician who had the full respect of all the top US jazzers from his stints in New York. Last year I discovered his late 60's big band album 100% Proof, it's one of the best, man.

calzino, Tuesday, 13 April 2021 14:01 (two months ago) link

Nick thanks. Those are great recs.

Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 13 April 2021 16:50 (two months ago) link

calz i don’t think i’ve ever heard of tubby hayes til now!

Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 13 April 2021 16:51 (two months ago) link

I discovered him last year, like with other brit-jazz luminaries like Stan Tracey and Acker Bilk he doesn't get as much love as he deserves!

calzino, Tuesday, 13 April 2021 16:59 (two months ago) link

When Sonny Rollins was playing in London he said something like "don't you lot realise how good Stan tracey is.."

calzino, Tuesday, 13 April 2021 17:34 (two months ago) link

couple random albums that i think would fit the bill:

Benny Carter - Jazz Giant
Oscar Peterson Trio - Affinity
Buddy Emmons - Pedal Steel Jazz (obv pedal steel is not real trad but as an instrument it kinda works in jazz actually)

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 13 April 2021 19:56 (two months ago) link

whoa I gotta hear that buddy emmons, I shamefully only know him from the Danny Gatton redneck jazz explosion live disc but he is completely godlike on it

brimstead, Tuesday, 13 April 2021 20:05 (two months ago) link

oh man i LOVE buddy emmons!!

Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 13 April 2021 20:13 (two months ago) link

thank you for these generous recs!

Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 13 April 2021 20:14 (two months ago) link

wow killer revive

John Cooper of Christian rock band Skillet (map), Tuesday, 13 April 2021 21:30 (two months ago) link

More on the country jazz tip: think you indicated you weren't into Milt Jackson's vibes, but you might try very young, very pre-ECM Gary Burton, like when he was intrigued by Dylan recording Blonde on Blonde with a slew of Nashville cats, and decided to try it---he'd already done Jazz Winds From A New Direction w country jazz guitarist Hank Garland, but wanted a meaty combo effect: so on, the fucken finally available on legit sanely priced CD Tennessee Firebird, from the 1966 LP, he (on piano and organ as well as vibes) has got Buddy Emmons, Buddy Spicher, Charlie McCoy, Kenneth Buttrey (these last two I recall as Dylan colleagues; some others may have been as well), the Osborne Brothers, Chet Atkins, Henry Strelezki, with, from the usual 60s GB axis, Steve Marcus on tenor and soprano, Steve Swallow on upright bass and jazz titan (still at it) Roy Haynes on drum: playing Dylan, Hank Williams, lots more (37 minutes, but quality def over quantity, if results sometimes a bit mixed)
Also back on CD and more variegatedly relevant in this vein: groovy GB twofers Duster/Country Roads and Other Places and Lofty Fake Anagram/A Geuine Tong Funeral, that set last composed by Carla Bley.

dow, Tuesday, 13 April 2021 21:35 (two months ago) link

yeah i i don’t know why it’s so hard for me to get with vibes. on paper this is exactly the sort of thing i like. guy’s all leaning against a fence post and everything. but you know what reading that reminded about STEVE SWALLOW. and i just went hunting and it turns out steve swallow did a new record last year with carla bley and andy sheppard called life goes on.

the first track is an absolute delight for a basic savage like me. an utterly spare blues jam between piano, sax and bass. not what i would have expected! it’s that simple. looking at the album art you imagine them all socially distanced in some huge empty concert hall, and you’ve got the privilege of sitting right in the middle of all of them, tapping your foot. back to basics. the other tracks are more adventurous but still so calm and spare and pretty.

https://open.spotify.com/album/50dZXAkVQ9PHCbtcNNaBsz?si=JGzbNJuyRSOJxsGxVFLGFw

Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 14 April 2021 06:58 (two months ago) link

just for posterity and so it doesn't get lost this interview that James Redd posted in the Carla Bley thread is outstanding.

https://ethaniverson.com/interview-with-carla-bley/

so many funny quotes about mingus and sonny rollins and monk, and the way she listens. this stood out to me too:

In free playing everybody played as loud as they could and as fast as they could and as high as they could. I liked them, but there was also what Max Gordon said about a bunch of guys screaming their heads off: “Call the pound.”

I think the music needed a setting. Here I go again, fixing it. Take that solo, and put it in a setting where it made a lot of sense and it was really appropriate and be welcomed by the ear. I could put that guy over there, and I could give that guy kind of a background. Just as it was, I thought free jazz needed work.

When we were very young, Paul and I used to not want to hear a melody. We thought that was corny. We wanted to play only abstract things, only weird notes, only play minor ninths and major sevenths. We only wanted to play nothing that resembled anything that already existed. And that lasted for a couple of years in New York.

That went the totally opposite way when I got older. I had to have a memorable melody and I actually succeeded sometimes.

Free improvising could be very useful, very interesting and fun to listen to and fun to play. But it needed something to ground it a little bit, like tie the kite to the ground.

Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 14 April 2021 07:35 (two months ago) link

Iverson was recently enthusing on twitter about Paul's Footloose album, it's mostly made of Carla's compositions and is a seriously sick recording.

calzino, Wednesday, 14 April 2021 08:06 (two months ago) link

I like loads of that much maligned ECM sound stuff, especially some of the 80's/90's Paul Bley albums. But Footloose is recorded in that rough as fuck manner that does enhance the music.

calzino, Wednesday, 14 April 2021 08:12 (two months ago) link

I think a review mentioned the drum is undermiked, the piano is out of tune etc

calzino, Wednesday, 14 April 2021 08:13 (two months ago) link

lol no, the drums are definitely not undermiked, it's Steve Swallow's bass they were talking about.

calzino, Wednesday, 14 April 2021 08:26 (two months ago) link

Not sure I agree with that bit pulled out. I am sure there is a lot of hard blowing with a minimum of setting in free jazz (Arthur Doyle maybe), but I am happy with a freely improvised approach that can go to different places without getting back to the place it starts from. Sometimes the thing may not come off in the sense that you could put it in a record and repeat play, but that's a point around how to consume a piece of music.

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 14 April 2021 08:56 (two months ago) link

“Call the pound.”

I don't agree with a lot of Carla opinions, especially when she dismisses Duke Ellington as someone who freerode Strayhorn's talent and took the credit, but did lol at this though!

calzino, Wednesday, 14 April 2021 09:09 (two months ago) link

saying that she never gives a dull interview tbf.

calzino, Wednesday, 14 April 2021 09:19 (two months ago) link

Yeah, though a number of people were already thinking about "providing a setting" to let it rip in, and doing it, pretty early on, more about that another time maybe (though reminds me: if you're into guitars, Sonny Sharrock's intensely mellow, never elided Ask The Ages, with Pharoah Sanders etc., is a great gateway to the land of the free).
My fave Bley in that vein is the first, s/t Liberation Music Orchestra album.

in 2018, the Downtown Music Gallery's enewsletter had a buncn of LPs by or incl. her, which I listened to on Spotify; here's some of my comments on Rolliing Jazz that year, maybe relevant to yr interests:

"MICHAEL MANTLER With LARRY CORYELL / CARLA BLEY / STEVE SWALLOW / TONY WILLIAMS - Movies (Watt 7; USA) Last sealed copy = $20

MICHAEL MANTLER with PHILIP CATHERINE / GARY WINDO / CARLA BLEY / STEVE SWALLOW/D SHARPE - More Movies (Watt 10; USA) Last couple of sealed copies / covers slilghtly worn = $20
Spotify has these as a twofer: both splendid, though if anything the sequel seems even more consistently engaging on first listen, even getting into kind of an art-metal groove thing at times (not xp "fusion funk")---when was the last time I thought of Philip Catherine!? And I didn't know Bley played tenor sax.

Meanwhile, Carla Bley's 1976 Dinner Music seats her and Mantler and Rudd and Carlos Ward with funky-smooth session aces Eric Gale, Richard Tee, Cornell Dupree, Steve Gadd, Gordon Edwards---tuba player Bob Stewart is kind of the hinge--for results that can be sneaky-acerbic in the mellow pocket, keeping or bringing it all back to the foreground, forebrain: "Ad Infinitum" def. keeps it, from the beginning, and Rudd soon takes a hold of the closer. "A New Hymn," after the near-generic chit-chat/inconsequential refinements of "Ida Lupino" and "Funnybird Song"--but "Dreams So Real" seems as sincere and even urgent as highbrow, and "Song Sung Long" is urban romantic intrigue, and "Dining Alone" is urban anxiety unifying furtive imagery (via Bley's sung-spoken thoughts)---the pressure of that Manhattan candlelight!
The opener, "Sing Me Softly of the Blues," starts well but turns into something like more nerf-funk chatter, music for the pilot of a pre-PBS afterschool series, but the good tracks here are really up my alley.

Michael Mantler:
The Hapless Child
Watt/4
words by Edward Gorey
(from 'Amphigorey')

Robert Wyatt (voice)
Terje Rypdal (guitar)
Carla Bley (piano, clavinet, synthesizer)
Steve Swallow (bass)
Jack DeJohnette (drums)

recorded July 1975 through January 1976
Willow, NY, and England
A whirlwind right out of the gate, and I knew from later all-instrumental versions how strong some of these frameworks would be---did not expect the excellent and unusual studio effects on some of Wyatt's vocal turns---but eventually, when the words are more upfront, can seem overly emphatic---Gorey's dank little narratives work better with his spare, black white & grey drawings or etchings or whatever they be. Also, c'mon, it's Gorey---think I'll go on to the settings of Beckett and Pinter.

That is, the *overall* effect, the ensemble onslaught, not primarily Wyatt's vocals, can seem overly emphatic here.

Mantler again: Silence(1976)---the overemphasis here is confined to some of MM's heavier handling of Pinter's words, and Chris Spedding's often repeated use of sustain etc., drawing a note out and curving it around 'til it's a needle in my earphones ---but it can hurt so good, and the voices are strong and distinctive, Carla Bley holding her on with Kevin Coyne and Robert Wyatt---and sometimes everybody follows Wyatt's dustdevil percussion, without ever missing their cues (it's a play with a small cast/combo, compressed, maybe condensed, into a single LP's worth of songs).
The text itself may grow on me, but so far doesn't seem up to several Pinter plays I'm more familiar with, though Mantler can highlight the weak spots in his literary sources, maybe by blurring some of the plot points.
(More about Mantler's work w Wyatt, and other jazzcentric adventures over on Robert Wyatt: Classic or Dud?)

And I still want to check this Bley (which a friend described as "beating Zappa at his own game and then some")--here's xgau's take:
European Tour 1977 [Watt, 1978]
Although the basic concept--Kurt Weill Meets Ornette Coleman for Indiscreet Ellingtonian Frolic--is a little abstruse, this actually does reward the sort of close listening that earns so many theoretical payoffs. Perhaps amusement is the reward a little too often, however. I like a joke as well as the next fellow, but a few emotional expositions do help assuage one's conscience. A-
Bullshit to that last; I wanna hear it!

But yeah, she settled into the conversational small group setting quite a while back; lots more where that came from.

dow, Wednesday, 14 April 2021 17:31 (two months ago) link

one month passes...

https://img.discogs.com/Fw6AdCnpIXF8qld8p0meYEpiuvQ=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(webp):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-4193425-1573634278-8632.jpeg.jpg

such a great album is this. It's quite unusual that he's one of these amazing talents that faded out of the jazz scene, but rather going on some tragic spiral into drug addiction he worked as a librarian for decades and only died a couple of years ago.

calzino, Monday, 17 May 2021 09:58 (four weeks ago) link

yeah this is a good one. discovered it on youtube, where it seems to be one of those albums that randomly cracked the recommendation algorithm, approaching a million views currently. shame hes not around for it

nobody like my rap (One Eye Open), Monday, 17 May 2021 13:17 (four weeks ago) link

On first listen, this is nice but tbf there's not a whole lot to distinguish his style from that of better-known pianists of the era.

Musicians who just kind of quietly faded out in a non-tragic way is interesting. Not quite the same thing, but my guitar teacher recorded with Lou Donaldson and Tony Williams Lifetime among others, but got a pharmacy license and was a practicing pharmacist for years. He made a handful of other records and taught until he died but never sought out the level of performing/recording career he probably could have had.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Monday, 17 May 2021 13:46 (four weeks ago) link

I think he's brilliant, yeah not of the greats maybe but that alb really clicks with me and he's someone I can enjoy as much as other ledges of jazz piano like Red Garland or Hampton Hawes.

calzino, Monday, 17 May 2021 14:16 (four weeks ago) link

three weeks pass...

i am pleased to announce that my jazz brain has evolved and i now enjoy the 12-minute modal workouts

but i will probably always like wynton kelly more than anybody. Kelly Blue is so ridiculously good

Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 8 June 2021 18:49 (one week ago) link

I love Wynton, especially on the Blackhawk shows with Miles Davis. (I have the four CD set of both the Friday and Saturday shows.)

birdistheword, Tuesday, 8 June 2021 18:51 (one week ago) link

Kelly's my favorite of the pianists Miles had at that time. I don't mind Bill Evans (though I would dispute that "everybody" digs him), but Red Garland was always way too tinkly for me.

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, 8 June 2021 18:57 (one week ago) link

I LOVE Bill Evans, and he was crucial to Kind of Blue (though yes, Wynton was the right pianist for "All Blues" too) but he was with Miles for a very short time. What little they did in the studio was incredible - less than two LP's worth of music - but I don't think he was ever given a chance to settle in on the road thanks to the audience's indifferent (even hostile) reaction towards him. He's still one of my two or three favorite jazz pianists. The Village Vanguard recordings with LaFaro and Motian are favorites. (I prefer the box set over the two expanded albums - nearly the same amount of music, but I prefer the box's presentation.) Their two studio LP's are nearly as great. Undercurrent, Everybody Digs Bill Evans, and the two volumes of the Solo Sessions he did for Riverside are all great. Plenty of later stuff that's excellent, including Tony Bennett's best album, and he's played on other great albums by other artists besides Miles, but in terms of the sessions he led, those Riverside albums I mentioned are the ones I return to most.

birdistheword, Tuesday, 8 June 2021 19:10 (one week ago) link

no need for tinkle-shaming Red Garland, he did some fine work!

calzino, Tuesday, 8 June 2021 19:36 (one week ago) link

Love Red Garland, like Wynton Kelly, do not dig Bill Evans.

but also fuck you (unperson), Tuesday, 8 June 2021 19:37 (one week ago) link


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