HIS DARK MATERIALS

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hmm, I know not what these wheelie things are. Perhaps I shall try to finish off the amber spyglass then. . .

― That Girl (thatgirl), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 15:15 (twenty-two years ago)

owen wilson should play iorek byrinson.

― j fail (cenotaph), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 19:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Am I the only person who liked Amber Spyglass best of the three?

― J (Jay), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 19:25 (twenty-two years ago)

I really liked the amber spyglass it is so good a potraying the final loss of innocence and the onset of adulthood. It is deeply ambiguous what the republic of heaven means and whether it is a good thing or not.

― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 19:27 (twenty-two years ago)

four weeks pass...

finished these over my vacation last week. first: I don't think there is a chance in hell these will be filmed. "12 yr olds go into other world, kill god, fall in love. also, torture and mutilation of kids. also, gay angels." That said, Lee Scoresby = Sam Elliott, vox of Hester = Reba McEntire.

I thought the third was disappointing, but I don't know how it couldn't have been. Pullman was throwing his never ever-wider with every book (staring out in our world at the beginning of Knife was a great shock, and the dust = dark matter stuff was good too). But the third kept having to add more and more concepts, and then characters to explain concepts, to close all the doors it had opened (ha ha). Oh here's xx swooping in to explain what needs to happen next. Felt a little rickedy. Lots of compelling locales/events (land of the dead esp) but the overall shape was a little diffuse.

― g--ff c-nn-n (gcannon), Thursday, 7 August 2003 16:18 (twenty-two years ago)

I really like how they killed God with absolutely no fanfare.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 7 August 2003 16:24 (twenty-two years ago)

gah "throwing his net ever wider" up there. one metaphor at a time plz, i know i know

death of decrepit unhealthy pope-like god: not even a little narrator announcement 'and thus, they killed god' it's not even mentioned later, by anyone, 'uhh, d'you know what you did back there?'

Mary Malone's story of her childhood love and then leaving her faith was terrific, but otherwise I felt some of the NO GOD GEDDIT stuff near the end was a little too telegraphed, a little to SUCK ON THAT, CS LEWIS.

― g--ff c-nn-n (gcannon), Thursday, 7 August 2003 16:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Finished Amber spyglass yesterday. fantastic. Want to go back and reread them all now.

― Texas Sam (thatgirl), Thursday, 7 August 2003 16:52 (twenty-two years ago)

I read the first two books when I was twelve. I'll definitely have to reread them before I pick up no. 3

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Thursday, 7 August 2003 17:23 (twenty-two years ago)

ack, how old are you now??

― Texas Sam (thatgirl), Thursday, 7 August 2003 17:26 (twenty-two years ago)

four weeks pass...

I kept remembering what I think was this thread as I read the trilogy except I remembered all sorts of incisive comments that simply aren't here and especially Alan T. doing a whole deal about the promise of one sort of religious ending and the delivery of another. And tom doing uh, lots of stuff.

Does anyone know this other thread or is it all in my head?

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Saturday, 6 September 2003 04:59 (twenty-two years ago)

are any of these the one you mean?

Narnia nd Fairy Tales
Alan Garner: C or D?
Susan Cooper: C or D?
Northern Lights
His Dark Materials

possibly not

― mark s (mark s), Saturday, 6 September 2003 09:52 (twenty-two years ago)

I think I may have dreamed this thread. It involves Tom going on a geeky excursion about the metatron and a withdrawn god.

(withdrawn god = kabbalah!)

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Saturday, 6 September 2003 20:21 (twenty-two years ago)

ack, how old are you now??

15 (the twelve was just a rough estimate)

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Saturday, 6 September 2003 20:25 (twenty-two years ago)

How many underage ilXors are there I wonder? I always assumed everyone here was old enough to vote. Or at least drive!

― Texas, Biyatch! (thatgirl), Saturday, 6 September 2003 21:03 (twenty-two years ago)

actually i think a withdrawn god is both kabbalism AND gnosticism, but they cope differently. I forget. Someone help me decode this all.

My thoughts on finishing amber spyglass by the way is that it is a perfectly english ending, and therefore crap. Down with catholicism up with anglicanism (same structure without as many rigid sexual hangups) and meanwhile growing up means getting over adventure and becoming a boring scholar.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Saturday, 6 September 2003 21:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Epicurus (342 - 271 BC) taught that the Olympian gods had withdrawn to the outer Empyrean and no longer concerned themselves with humans, so the core idea (without the monotheism) certainly predates the kaballah.

― Aimless, Saturday, 6 September 2003 21:33 (twenty-two years ago)

I think I may have dreamed this thread. It involves Tom going on a geeky excursion about the metatron and a withdrawn god.

That reminds me of the thread I keep thinking I imagined, where mark s came up with an intriguing new concept of history and time.

― N. (nickdastoor), Sunday, 7 September 2003 00:41 (twenty-two years ago)

one month passes...

I loved the first two... not sure about the last one. I've read 3/4 of it and it seems bloated and less convincing than the other two.

http://www.spikemagazine.com/0602amberspyglass.htm

― Freedom Dupont, Wednesday, 5 November 2003 12:01 (twenty-two years ago)

"A pint-sized pocket volume, Lyra's Oxford packages together a short story set in the same universe as his famous trilogy, a fold-out map of the alternate-reality city of Oxford which Lyra and her daemon Pantalaimon inhabit, a short brochure for a cruise to The Levant aboard the SS Zenobia and a postcard from the inventor of the amber spyglass, Mary Malone."

Great. Philip Pullman appears to have turned into Terry Pratchett without the sense of humour.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 12:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Terry Pratchett without the sense of humour = Terry Pratchett

― mark s (mark s), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 12:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Anyone going to see the big christmas play at the national?

― Ed (dali), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 12:16 (twenty-two years ago)

That explorer chap who did The Big Read the other week... HDM is good, but not as mindblowingly great as he was making out. Still, nice to see the church getting such a good, sustained kicking.

― Freedom Dupont, Wednesday, 5 November 2003 12:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Catholics protesting about the oppression by religion = fair enough if frequently depressingly ignorant about the religion that's been forced down their throats.

Church of Englanders protesting about the oppression by religion = just fucking pathetic, to be honest.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 12:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Ed - YES. But probably not till Jan. Trying to persuade C that we should do the full-on 6-hour blowout - ie both plays in succession.

― Sam (chirombo), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 13:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Church of Englanders protesting about the oppression by religion = just fucking pathetic, to be honest.

Why? Religions have oppressed and manipulated people all over the planet. Isn't that enough to be indignant about?

― Freedom Dupont, Wednesday, 5 November 2003 17:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Just finished the trilogy this morning. The third book meandered a bit, but I thought Pullman's writing was better in the last 100 pages than it was anywhere in the trilogy.

The armoured polar bears reminded me of myself when I've been drinking.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Friday, 7 November 2003 11:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Still, nice to see the church getting such a good, sustained kicking.

Most boring statement ever. "The imagination behind the setting and the plot-turns and the characterization didn't really mean much, but WHOO IT WASN'T NICE TO RELIGION!"

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 7 November 2003 12:48 (twenty-two years ago)

This series should be renamed. I want to see a series called ":HIS DARK MEATBALLS" (what I misread it as.)

― sucka (sucka), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:37 (twenty-two years ago)

If anyone wants to make an outing of the 6 hour blowout I'd be up for it.

― Ed (dali), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Lyra and Will are played by twenty something actors in the theatre production. In the book she's twelve. This might start emotions which I'm not too comfortable with!

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:06 (twenty-two years ago)

it's in the best traditions of christmas theater though.

― Ed (dali), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:07 (twenty-two years ago)

that bit where they play with each other's weasels at the end is filthy quease making teenage finger sex filthy.
also the last book is crap.
the second was only OK.
i think he should have left it after the first one

― bob snoom, Saturday, 8 November 2003 13:11 (twenty-two years ago)

seven months pass...

http://theonering.net had this little summary of news today:

Yesterday, industry insiders leaked news that Tom Stoppard's script for "The Golden Compass" had been "junked," and director Chris Weitz ["About a Boy"] was tipped to take over on the writing. Industry sources described him as a "huge dork-level fan of the books [who] wants to do them justice." He's won praise for his understanding and direction of the boy character in "About a Boy." The ability to write convincingly about teenagers would be an advantage in "The Golden Compass."

Yes, the director of a Nick Hornby novel adaptation is all revved up for His Dark Materials. Oh dear.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 18:25 (twenty-one years ago)

At least it isn't Nick Hornby adapting it. Not that Chris Weitz is likely to be much better, but you know what I mean...

― Leon Czolgosz (Nicole), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 18:34 (twenty-one years ago)

You have a point indeed, but EW the image in my mind about that possibility. Polar bears trying to insist that if we'd only all listen to Broooce nonstop then God would come back...

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 18:38 (twenty-one years ago)

I think you're reading waaay too much into how much influence a director has over content in an studio-driven adaptation -- his important job here is to hit the basics and work with the cast, so presumably they got him because he can work with kids. (We didn't have adolescent sex in Harry Potter, either.)

― Tep (ktepi), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 18:41 (twenty-one years ago)

This is true, Tep, and yet. (As it is, what annoys/surprises me most is the junking of Stoppard's take on it, because I think that would have been brilliant!)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 18:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, that's a really weird thing, and makes me wonder what on Earth they didn't like about it. (I mean, I haven't read it, but still! Ditching it altogether instead of asking for a rewrite? It's Tom Stoppard!)

― Tep (ktepi), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 18:46 (twenty-one years ago)

didnt haev weitz something to do with american pie as well? maybe the maekrs of shoddy comedy are the doers of good of the future. like the splatterists of yesteryeear making the blockbusters of today. or something.

― :|, Tuesday, 29 June 2004 18:47 (twenty-one years ago)

chris weitz is an uncredited director on American Pie (the first film), and a producer of the second two (meaning, he made money off them), but the only film of note he's directed is About a Boy, which is still one of my favorite films of the past few years, mainly because it does deal with characters (particularly the kid) so well. They could have done worse and gotten Chris Columbus or something.

Stoppard seems to have bad luck with screenplays, didn't he write Baron Munchausen and have all of his stuff rewritten? Maybe he's not a good screenwriter.

― kyle (akmonday), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 18:53 (twenty-one years ago)

oh never mind that, it was Brazil he worked on. I'm not sure what of his stuff was used and what wasn't. And I forgot he wrote Shakespeare in Love.

― kyle (akmonday), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 18:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Ah, I don't know why they're bothering. They're all far too long to be movies, aren't they? I envisaged a hugely-expensive but kind of naff and endearing television serialisation as being the ideal.

― edward o (edwardo), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 18:57 (twenty-one years ago)

shakespeare in love had another credit! he hasn't worked on ANY not-rewritten-afterwards movie!

― tom west (thomp), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 23:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Except Rosencrantz, for obvious reasons.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 23:04 (twenty-one years ago)

(nb. possibly wrong.)

(they would all work very well as very good 150-minutes-ish movies but as average or possibly just QUITE good 150 minutes movies they might be really bad.

― tom west (thomp), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 23:05 (twenty-one years ago)

)

(um xpost.)

― tom west (thomp), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 23:05 (twenty-one years ago)

WE CANNOT LET THESE BOOKS BE DILUTED BY THE FANDOMS THAT WILL ARISE AFTER THE FILMS ARE RELEASED!

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, BE ON GUARD FOR ANY SLASH/FIC WRITERS!

― Michael Stuchbery (Mikey Bidness), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 01:42 (twenty-one years ago)

It's probably already happened.

― Leon Czolgosz (Nicole), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 01:43 (twenty-one years ago)

I fear someone's already on it -- read the second paragraph.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 01:45 (twenty-one years ago)

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