HIS DARK MATERIALS

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

Not all messages are displayed: show all messages (460 of them)

I didn't know you had written any, Matt! Sorry!

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Monday, 7 July 2003 19:21 (twenty-two years ago)

My mother sent me this trilogy, which I dutifully read and then set aside. I seem to have missed exactly what it is that is so grand about these stories. Actually, I do remember liking the first two. And I remember exactly nothing about the third. So maybe that was my problem with the series (I feel the same way about several of the books in the Chronicles of Narnia, too).

However, I wouldn't compare them to the H.P. tales - I think that _HDM_ is meant for a more mature audience, and the stories are infinitely more complex. While the H.P. story line is becoming increasingly complex and addresses more issues, the stories still make me think of fifth- and sixth-grade student readers, whereas I think of seventh- and eight-grades as being the starting points for _HDM_ (which is the same range for The Lord of the Rings in my mind, though The Hobbit works with younger little ones.

― I'm Passing Open Windows (Ms Laura), Monday, 7 July 2003 20:46 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm giving these books to my kids when they turn eight.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 7 July 2003 20:48 (twenty-two years ago)

*laughing* An excellent plan.

Why eight?

― I'm Passing Open Windows (Ms Laura), Monday, 7 July 2003 21:06 (twenty-two years ago)

That's the age I was when I read _Watership Down_.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 7 July 2003 21:16 (twenty-two years ago)

make them read shardik

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 7 July 2003 21:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Read it to them in the womb you lazy man.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 7 July 2003 21:19 (twenty-two years ago)

But how will I fit in there with them, let alone turn pages?

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 7 July 2003 21:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Much better than Potter, like 3D is better than 2D. Though I now have the new Potter and am childishly excited about reading it.

HDM is very pompous, portentous, but full of excellent tales which do try and push the envelope (ick) for children's fiction. He's really made an effort, and while it all gets a bit up its own arse, it's pretty damn good reading.

― Mark C (Mark C), Monday, 7 July 2003 21:43 (twenty-two years ago)

But how will I fit in there with them, let alone turn pages?

I assume you're able to get in there already, surely.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 7 July 2003 21:57 (twenty-two years ago)

I loved the first two but was never able to finish the Amber Spyglass. About halfway through it started getting extremely dull. Anyone else experience this?

― That Girl (thatgirl), Monday, 7 July 2003 22:27 (twenty-two years ago)

This thread got me motivated enough to go buy these books--I am currently halfway through the first one and all I can say is:

ARMORED BEARS, MOTHERFUCKER!!!

I mean, has there ever been a better idea in all of literature anywhere? Aside from that it's quite good--nicely dark and I heartily approve of street urchins smoking and drinking.

― adam (adam), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 05:25 (twenty-two years ago)

The first two were excellent, stay up all night for books.

― That Girl (thatgirl), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 06:19 (twenty-two years ago)

I can't remember the last time ANY author came off well in an interview - totally irrelevant to the books in this case certainly. They pretty much rock. The Amber Spyglass goes veering off track though, for me. I think he's trying to cram too many ideas in without properly integrating everything, whereas up until then he'd been doing a great job. I mean, it's still hugely powerful, but I just plain don't like the wheelie things.

― Archel (Archel), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 07:23 (twenty-two years ago)

how timely. 1/3 through the second (subtle..) am having fun. will reread thread when i have no spoiler fear.

― gaz (gaz), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 08:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Awesome books, but yes, the wheelie things were very... odd...

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 09:20 (twenty-two years ago)

They're not the best children's books ever (Moomins obv) but yes they're very very good.

Is anyone going to buy/read Lyra's Oxford?

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 09:41 (twenty-two years ago)

What is Lyra's Oxford?

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 09:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Pullman's new cash-in/book, set 2 years after HDM, lushly illustrated travelogue of Lyra wandering around fantasy Oxford, may or may not have any plot.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 09:51 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm reading Stephen Jay Gould on evolution right now and in hindsight I'm quite impressed with the wheelie things, from a design/evolutionary point at least.

― Mark C (Mark C), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 11:37 (twenty-two years ago)

I quite liked the wheelie things, actually. So there.

― caitlin (caitlin), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 14:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Wheelie things = grebt. Also because they are part of the MARY MALONE plot and Mary Malone = r0wr! (in a fictional sort of way)

("for the Dads")

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 14:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Actually why aren't there more for-the-Dads characters in children's lit?

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 14:04 (twenty-two years ago)

http://members.aol.com/DadsWV/Graphics/dads.gif

― Dada, Tuesday, 8 July 2003 14:05 (twenty-two years ago)

harry potter <= ???

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 14:06 (twenty-two years ago)

hmm, I know not what these wheelie things are. Perhaps I shall try to finish off the amber spyglass then. . .

― That Girl (thatgirl), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 15:15 (twenty-two years ago)

owen wilson should play iorek byrinson.

― j fail (cenotaph), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 19:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Am I the only person who liked Amber Spyglass best of the three?

― J (Jay), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 19:25 (twenty-two years ago)

I really liked the amber spyglass it is so good a potraying the final loss of innocence and the onset of adulthood. It is deeply ambiguous what the republic of heaven means and whether it is a good thing or not.

― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 19:27 (twenty-two years ago)

four weeks pass...

finished these over my vacation last week. first: I don't think there is a chance in hell these will be filmed. "12 yr olds go into other world, kill god, fall in love. also, torture and mutilation of kids. also, gay angels." That said, Lee Scoresby = Sam Elliott, vox of Hester = Reba McEntire.

I thought the third was disappointing, but I don't know how it couldn't have been. Pullman was throwing his never ever-wider with every book (staring out in our world at the beginning of Knife was a great shock, and the dust = dark matter stuff was good too). But the third kept having to add more and more concepts, and then characters to explain concepts, to close all the doors it had opened (ha ha). Oh here's xx swooping in to explain what needs to happen next. Felt a little rickedy. Lots of compelling locales/events (land of the dead esp) but the overall shape was a little diffuse.

― g--ff c-nn-n (gcannon), Thursday, 7 August 2003 16:18 (twenty-two years ago)

I really like how they killed God with absolutely no fanfare.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 7 August 2003 16:24 (twenty-two years ago)

gah "throwing his net ever wider" up there. one metaphor at a time plz, i know i know

death of decrepit unhealthy pope-like god: not even a little narrator announcement 'and thus, they killed god' it's not even mentioned later, by anyone, 'uhh, d'you know what you did back there?'

Mary Malone's story of her childhood love and then leaving her faith was terrific, but otherwise I felt some of the NO GOD GEDDIT stuff near the end was a little too telegraphed, a little to SUCK ON THAT, CS LEWIS.

― g--ff c-nn-n (gcannon), Thursday, 7 August 2003 16:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Finished Amber spyglass yesterday. fantastic. Want to go back and reread them all now.

― Texas Sam (thatgirl), Thursday, 7 August 2003 16:52 (twenty-two years ago)

I read the first two books when I was twelve. I'll definitely have to reread them before I pick up no. 3

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Thursday, 7 August 2003 17:23 (twenty-two years ago)

ack, how old are you now??

― Texas Sam (thatgirl), Thursday, 7 August 2003 17:26 (twenty-two years ago)

four weeks pass...

I kept remembering what I think was this thread as I read the trilogy except I remembered all sorts of incisive comments that simply aren't here and especially Alan T. doing a whole deal about the promise of one sort of religious ending and the delivery of another. And tom doing uh, lots of stuff.

Does anyone know this other thread or is it all in my head?

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Saturday, 6 September 2003 04:59 (twenty-two years ago)

are any of these the one you mean?

Narnia nd Fairy Tales
Alan Garner: C or D?
Susan Cooper: C or D?
Northern Lights
His Dark Materials

possibly not

― mark s (mark s), Saturday, 6 September 2003 09:52 (twenty-two years ago)

I think I may have dreamed this thread. It involves Tom going on a geeky excursion about the metatron and a withdrawn god.

(withdrawn god = kabbalah!)

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Saturday, 6 September 2003 20:21 (twenty-two years ago)

ack, how old are you now??

15 (the twelve was just a rough estimate)

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Saturday, 6 September 2003 20:25 (twenty-two years ago)

How many underage ilXors are there I wonder? I always assumed everyone here was old enough to vote. Or at least drive!

― Texas, Biyatch! (thatgirl), Saturday, 6 September 2003 21:03 (twenty-two years ago)

actually i think a withdrawn god is both kabbalism AND gnosticism, but they cope differently. I forget. Someone help me decode this all.

My thoughts on finishing amber spyglass by the way is that it is a perfectly english ending, and therefore crap. Down with catholicism up with anglicanism (same structure without as many rigid sexual hangups) and meanwhile growing up means getting over adventure and becoming a boring scholar.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Saturday, 6 September 2003 21:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Epicurus (342 - 271 BC) taught that the Olympian gods had withdrawn to the outer Empyrean and no longer concerned themselves with humans, so the core idea (without the monotheism) certainly predates the kaballah.

― Aimless, Saturday, 6 September 2003 21:33 (twenty-two years ago)

I think I may have dreamed this thread. It involves Tom going on a geeky excursion about the metatron and a withdrawn god.

That reminds me of the thread I keep thinking I imagined, where mark s came up with an intriguing new concept of history and time.

― N. (nickdastoor), Sunday, 7 September 2003 00:41 (twenty-two years ago)

one month passes...

I loved the first two... not sure about the last one. I've read 3/4 of it and it seems bloated and less convincing than the other two.

http://www.spikemagazine.com/0602amberspyglass.htm

― Freedom Dupont, Wednesday, 5 November 2003 12:01 (twenty-two years ago)

"A pint-sized pocket volume, Lyra's Oxford packages together a short story set in the same universe as his famous trilogy, a fold-out map of the alternate-reality city of Oxford which Lyra and her daemon Pantalaimon inhabit, a short brochure for a cruise to The Levant aboard the SS Zenobia and a postcard from the inventor of the amber spyglass, Mary Malone."

Great. Philip Pullman appears to have turned into Terry Pratchett without the sense of humour.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 12:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Terry Pratchett without the sense of humour = Terry Pratchett

― mark s (mark s), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 12:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Anyone going to see the big christmas play at the national?

― Ed (dali), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 12:16 (twenty-two years ago)

That explorer chap who did The Big Read the other week... HDM is good, but not as mindblowingly great as he was making out. Still, nice to see the church getting such a good, sustained kicking.

― Freedom Dupont, Wednesday, 5 November 2003 12:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Catholics protesting about the oppression by religion = fair enough if frequently depressingly ignorant about the religion that's been forced down their throats.

Church of Englanders protesting about the oppression by religion = just fucking pathetic, to be honest.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 12:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Ed - YES. But probably not till Jan. Trying to persuade C that we should do the full-on 6-hour blowout - ie both plays in succession.

― Sam (chirombo), Wednesday, 5 November 2003 13:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Skipping 360 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

I thought this roughly followed the pattern of the first series

Book 1 - Rattling adventure yarn, almost a standalone, solid cliffhanger

Book 2 - Broadens the story out, while keeping focus on the main characters, who never quite behave as we expect them to expecting, thrillingly

Book 3 - A big old mess

― Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 23 December 2025 02:16 (five months ago)

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.