Marvel Comics blabbery

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Not really about anything, but CBR has a chat transcript with Marvel Editor Tom Brevoort and I snorted with laughter at this exchange, even though I don't know who Rocket Racer is.

Brad Curran: How about Rocket Racer? I'm in a shameless mood, so I'll ask if he's going to be in anything, too.

Tom Brevoort: I'm talking to somebody about Rocket Racer right now.

Cayman: Are you saying "don't ever mention Rocket Racer again if you want to keep working in this town?"

Huk-L (Huk-L), Monday, 12 September 2005 17:09 (fourteen years ago) link

A ZOOM A ZOOM ZOOM

David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 12 September 2005 17:26 (fourteen years ago) link

cooooooool

Huk-L (Huk-L), Monday, 12 September 2005 17:37 (fourteen years ago) link

Marvel in the 70s = DC in the 50s.

David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 12 September 2005 17:50 (fourteen years ago) link

NB: I'm totally wrong.

David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 12 September 2005 17:56 (fourteen years ago) link

seven years pass...

where is the goddamn DCU ipad app?

it was very clear that it's a sarcastic song (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 29 January 2013 15:11 (six years ago) link

I'll be surprised if they do an app soon. They just got around to making it non-flash.

I've been using it on the ipad through Safari and it's nice.

EZ Snappin, Tuesday, 29 January 2013 15:13 (six years ago) link

one year passes...

Do we really need a Deadly Hands of Kung Fu revival? It's only been 40 years since the last one...let's give it another 40 to really let the nostalgia build up.

WilliamC, Sunday, 4 May 2014 13:09 (five years ago) link

Will it feature Shang-Chi? Still waiting on a reprint of Master of Kung Fu, which I think has always been scuppered by rights issue to do with the Sax Rohmer characters.

Love some of the Neal Adams covers on DHOKF

Ward Fowler, Sunday, 4 May 2014 13:34 (five years ago) link

I liked Shang Chi as Moench wrote him, but Hickman making him a spaceship-piloting Avenger was a development so wrong-footed it's sort of put me off the entire company, except for Bendis' Miles Morales, Waid's Daredevil and Wilson's Ms. Marvel.

WilliamC, Sunday, 4 May 2014 14:13 (five years ago) link

I just don't get the love for Hickman (in some quarters), everything I've read by him has been a dreary mess with no real feel for Marvel history/characters/style. But I'm totally Team Bendis when it comes to the Avengers - the best run on the title since Englehart.

Ward Fowler, Sunday, 4 May 2014 14:27 (five years ago) link

Manhattan Projects is very good, can't really speak for his Marvel work besides a few FF comics which were pretty seemed fun.

tsrobodo, Sunday, 4 May 2014 16:08 (five years ago) link

xxp -- I forgot to mention Soule & Pulido's She-Hulk, which is 1001% fun, and beautiful to look at. Hawkeye has good moments but it's inconsistent.

WilliamC, Friday, 9 May 2014 17:56 (five years ago) link

mmm pretty seemed fun

tsrobodo, Saturday, 10 May 2014 11:31 (five years ago) link

I really like East of West. It's one of the few comics I'm reading month to month anymore.

earlnash, Saturday, 10 May 2014 14:36 (five years ago) link

one month passes...

lol 1985

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Br9h7WFCcAEo1fl.jpg

poor Groo :(

Οὖτις, Monday, 7 July 2014 18:50 (five years ago) link

Groo back issues are hard to come by!

I dunno if I have any anymore but that was a great book.

Οὖτις, Monday, 7 July 2014 18:59 (five years ago) link

sales must have turned around at some point cuz it had a pretty long run (120 issues?!). I have fond memories of the storylines with his dog, who was even stupider than he was.

Οὖτις, Monday, 7 July 2014 19:00 (five years ago) link

yo man, Hama GI Joe was dope can't argue with that
i remember picking up Groo into the late 80s, it went forever

Nhex, Monday, 7 July 2014 19:12 (five years ago) link

these numbers are from may 85... groo's first marvel issue was march that year.

fit and working again, Monday, 7 July 2014 19:22 (five years ago) link

ah that explains it

Οὖτις, Monday, 7 July 2014 19:23 (five years ago) link

and yeah, groo was excellent.

fit and working again, Monday, 7 July 2014 19:23 (five years ago) link

Looks as if Groo was the second-highest selling Epic title after the flagship anthology. That's not too shabby, really.

It's hard to imagine Marvel making so much of their bread off of adaptated properties nowadays. Everybody but them seems to have cornered that particular market of late.

The She's The Sheriff Mystery Hour (Old Lunch), Monday, 7 July 2014 20:08 (five years ago) link

Was the New Universe the first time Marvel attempted the alternate, self-contained universe of titles gambit...? Was there any precedent of a similar approach from DC? (DC was pretty explicit about the separate universes, but they didn't have entire titles devoted to alternate universes, did they? At least not until Vertigo?)

Οὖτις, Monday, 7 July 2014 20:34 (five years ago) link

I think Marvel (copying 2000 AD and other sort of indie lines) was ahead of DC with Epic and OGNS and whatnot

Nhex, Monday, 7 July 2014 20:35 (five years ago) link

Kirby's Fourth World?

mh, Monday, 7 July 2014 20:36 (five years ago) link

that included Superman/Jimmy Olsen

Οὖτις, Monday, 7 July 2014 20:40 (five years ago) link

Epic and OGNS titles weren't related to each other tho. What I mean is something like Ultimates or New Universe, where there was a series of titles that were related to one another, but totally separate from the "regular" continuity.

Οὖτις, Monday, 7 July 2014 20:41 (five years ago) link

like, DC didn't have a bunch of Earth-2 titles (right?)

Οὖτις, Monday, 7 July 2014 20:42 (five years ago) link

There was All-Star Squadron and that's about it for Earth-2 ongoings.

EZ Snappin, Monday, 7 July 2014 20:47 (five years ago) link

It was the first line produced by Marvel Comics utilizing a pre-conceived shared universe concept.

fit and working again, Monday, 7 July 2014 20:49 (five years ago) link

I have a whole short box of nothing but groo. Can't even get at it rn (lol nyc) but I'm gonna wallow in them again someday.

how will the milf survive? (Jon Lewis), Monday, 7 July 2014 23:04 (five years ago) link

yeah, groo was awesome

i loved groo as a kid. a bit sad that the collections available on amazon are a tad pricey.

The Littlest Boho (stevie), Tuesday, 8 July 2014 06:29 (five years ago) link

Those figures are for postal subscriptions only, rather than newstand or comic book store sales

sʌxihɔːl (Ward Fowler), Tuesday, 8 July 2014 07:36 (five years ago) link

Collections were only ever four issues too iirc, they could have gotten the whole series out if Evanier had switched to fat 12-issue tomes

sales must have turned around at some point

subscription figures aren't necessarily exactly proportionate with newstand and direct sales anyway

i remember picking up Groo into the late 80s, it went forever

it's still going, the last series was in 2010 (and there's a Groo Vs Conan that was due in 2011, but Sergio's illness knocked it off track [and Sakai's family troubles probably aren't helping him speed through it rn])

Looks as if Groo was the second-highest selling Epic title after the flagship anthology. That's not too shabby, really.

can't possibly believe the Heavy Metal knockoff magazine sold more than Elektra

Was the New Universe the first time Marvel attempted the alternate, self-contained universe of titles gambit...? Was there any precedent of a similar approach from DC? (DC was pretty explicit about the separate universes, but they didn't have entire titles devoted to alternate universes, did they? At least not until Vertigo?)

Vertigo wasn't an alternate universe, it was a bunch of DCU and otherwise self-contained books

boney tassel (sic), Tuesday, 8 July 2014 07:39 (five years ago) link

Essential-style, phonebook Groo volumes wld be a winner, no?

Think Conan v Groo is finally coming out this year.

There was All-Star Squadron and that's about it for Earth-2 ongoings.

Before that there was an All Star Comics, also featuring the Earth-2 heroes, but since 'Flash of Two Worlds' DC have never exactly resisted crossovers between the two universes.

sʌxihɔːl (Ward Fowler), Tuesday, 8 July 2014 07:54 (five years ago) link

Groo was the first American-style comic I read after a childhood of Tintin and Asterix and The Beano. Anecdotally - it felt like Mad and Groo were much more widely read than the superhero books - maybe a UK thing? There were copies in every newsagent - plus (anecdotally again) it was never just boys who read them.

Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 8 July 2014 11:28 (five years ago) link

Groo was always tough to find in my area (NY), never seemed that popular around here. Probably because of the times (late 80s/early 90s). I was often surprised when I was able to find a copy

Nhex, Tuesday, 8 July 2014 13:48 (five years ago) link

I think I got into Mad magazine as a kid before most comics but never saw Groo on a newsstand and hardly ever in a comics shop.

mh, Tuesday, 8 July 2014 13:58 (five years ago) link

Groo was dead easy to find in the UK, but I always suspected we mainly got the leftover comics that hadn't sold in the US

The Littlest Boho (stevie), Tuesday, 8 July 2014 14:02 (five years ago) link

Nah. For quite a while, Marvel US would swap a 15 cent (or whatever) front cover price plate for a 10p cover price place at the end of a run of 'colour' comics, so the Marvel titles in newsagents etc were produced specifically for the UK market, although certain titles (eg The Avengers) that had British Marvel equivalents were 'non-distributed' (ie you could only get them as imports.)

http://www.comics.org/issue/1057795/cover/4/

By the time that the cover price included both a US and UK price, comics were distributed to UK specialist shops just a couple of days after they went on sale in America, so not 'leftovers' either.

sʌxihɔːl (Ward Fowler), Tuesday, 8 July 2014 14:12 (five years ago) link

paper is heavy, I would imagine shipping comics overseas was at the bottom of their list of strategies

mh, Tuesday, 8 July 2014 14:13 (five years ago) link

really? woah, I always imagined when I was reading Marvel obsessively (86-88) that they were imports... thanks for clearing that up, Ward.

The Littlest Boho (stevie), Tuesday, 8 July 2014 14:27 (five years ago) link

As a kid, I was always fascinated with Marvel comics from the UK whenever some neighborhood kids got their hands on one (usually Action Force, IIRC). Those larger comics with the different paper stock felt like alien artifacts. Even later, non-tabloid stuff like Knights of Pendragon looked so much different from what I was used to (which was largely due to what I think might've been a completely different color process than what was standard in most US Marvel books at the time).

The She's The Sheriff Mystery Hour (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 8 July 2014 14:38 (five years ago) link

I have mixed feelings on Kieron Gillen's recent Iron Man run, but using a couple Marvel UK characters (Death's Head and Dark Angel) was kind of entertaining

mh, Tuesday, 8 July 2014 14:53 (five years ago) link

Stevie, I hope you won't mind if I make things a little clearer, still

The small, colour Marvel comics were always technically 'imports', in that they were printed and published in America. When Marvel comics were first imported to the UK, they would have a cents price on them and over that t UK price stamp, normally bearing a T&P insignia, which stood for the British distributors Thorpe and Porter Lrd. The comics were brought over to this country by sea mail.

At some point in the early 1970s, Marvel in America began to print a certain amount of their color comics with a UK pence price, rather than a cents price. This was done at the end of the printing process, a simple matter of swapping a printing plate, but it meant that UK pence copies traditionally have had shittier printing, more colour mis-alignment etc, which may have contributed to your impression that these comics were somehow 'leftovers'. They are generally deemed less collectible than the 'real' cents comics. But they were American Marvels, printed and published in the US and imported here.

Not every American Marvel title was officially distributed in the UK (these comics are known in British collector circles as 'ND' - not distributed - comics.) When the British Marvel titles kicked off in the 1970s, reprinting the American comics in larger size, black and white (or two colour) weekly editions, lots of the series featured in these UK Marvel titles - Spider-Man, Hulk, Avengers etc - were removed from UK distribution, so as not to distract from the UK sales, or confuse readers with stories from vastly different time periods. The only way for a UK reader to acquire these ND comics would be to subscribe, visit America, order them via a mail order dealer either at home or in America, or buy them from one a dedicated comic book store, like Dark They Were and Golden Eyed in London. Distribution of the Marvel Comics with British prices was always extremely patchy, but there's no evidence that any particular titles were 'dumped' on the UK market.

Again, at some point in the 1980s, Marvel began to print only one version of their American colour comics, with both an American and British (and Canadian) price on the front. These titles would be imported in large quantities by air to UK comic shops, typically going on sale just a couple of days after they went on sale in America. Or you could wait a month or so and buy pretty much every Marvel or DC as a slightly cheaper (cover) price, sea-freighted and officially distributed to newsagents and even comic shops.

Looking at a gallery of Groo covers, it seems that the first one with a joint US/UK price was issue 16, cover dated June 1986:

http://www.coverbrowser.com/image/groo-the-wanderer/16-1.jpg

sʌxihɔːl (Ward Fowler), Tuesday, 8 July 2014 20:18 (five years ago) link

Thanks for that, Ward. I could read ultra-granular comics minutia like that all day long.

The She's The Sheriff Mystery Hour (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 8 July 2014 20:38 (five years ago) link

Seconded. And I'm pretty sure I had that Groo!

The Littlest Boho (stevie), Tuesday, 8 July 2014 21:17 (five years ago) link

Really interesting! I just finished the Sean Howe so am definitely in minutia mode. Follow-up question: when did DC/Marvel stuff start disappearing from UK newsagents? I stopped buying (for the first time) round Death of Superman time - I think they were still on the shelves then.

Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 8 July 2014 22:05 (five years ago) link

Just noticed by a friend on Twitter and reposted to Facebook:

"Disney owns marvel.
Marvel owns Thor.
Thor is the son of a king.
Thor is now female.
Thor is now a Disney princess."

Star Gentle Uterus (DJP), Friday, 18 July 2014 17:27 (five years ago) link

it goes all the way to the top mannnnnnnn

Good idea I guess then

Chuck_Tatum, Sunday, 20 July 2014 22:34 (five years ago) link

Marvel Unlimited is doing a month for $0.99 during Comic-Con, I'll get in on this
http://marvel.com/mu

Nhex, Thursday, 24 July 2014 14:55 (five years ago) link

No ALL-NEW DOOP available, what a waste.

Nhex, Friday, 25 July 2014 19:06 (five years ago) link

If only for the sake of people that might read the title and have no context for it whatsoever, I love that there's a comic called All-New Doop.

I'll probably eventually get on the Marvel Unlimited train, but not until it gets a helluva lot closer to actually being Unlimited. For the time being, I'm content to stupidly spend all of my money in the futile attempt of getting physical copies of everything I want.

Dr. Diapers (Old Lunch), Friday, 25 July 2014 19:17 (five years ago) link

reminds me, I need to catch up on All-New Doop, I'm a bit behind

mh, Friday, 25 July 2014 19:28 (five years ago) link

Read some older Dark Wolverine issues. Man, it's infuriating - so many crossovers, every issue continues directly into another series, and there's no way to just go to the correct book without hunting it down. Netflix this ain't.

Nhex, Friday, 25 July 2014 19:46 (five years ago) link

I haven't used the service at all, but if Marvel's oft-nonsensical methodology with respect to physical collections is any kind of a barometer, I can only imagine that reading the more recent hyperinterconnected stuff is a total nightmare.

Self-Satisfaction Guaranteed (Old Lunch), Friday, 25 July 2014 20:05 (five years ago) link

How is the new Nightcrawler run from Chris Claremont?

jamiesummerz, Friday, 8 August 2014 14:58 (five years ago) link

I would love to give him the benefit of the doubt given that he is 90% of the reason why I read comic books today but, after the 90s, I'll be damned if I'm ever reading another new Claremont book.

Star Gentle Uterus (DJP), Friday, 8 August 2014 15:15 (five years ago) link

The new Nightcrawler is readable. It's not good by any means, but compared to DC, readable counts as a win.

EZ Snappin, Friday, 8 August 2014 15:53 (five years ago) link

what, you don't like reading captions with paragraphs of exposition and character description draped over soap operas? xp

mh, Friday, 8 August 2014 15:53 (five years ago) link

djp otm

I thought Claremont came across quite menschy in the Howe book so I'll give him a shot

Chuck_Tatum, Friday, 8 August 2014 21:47 (five years ago) link

four weeks pass...

I haven't read comics for years, Marvel or otherwise, but I came across the Howe book at the library and have been blowing through it over the past few days. I just finished the Shooter years- which were the years I in which I discovered Marvel comics. Boy he did not come across well. I was cringing imagining working for him as depicted in his later tenure.

Dokken played here for a Ribfest and people were total assholes (Sparkle Motion), Saturday, 6 September 2014 23:01 (five years ago) link

Dreaded Deadline Doom notwithstanding, I loved the auteur years between Stan and Shooter as E-I-C. Shooter's ascension = the day the music died.

Malibu Stasi (WilliamC), Saturday, 6 September 2014 23:18 (five years ago) link

It's certainly seeming that way to me. The Gerber/Englehart/Starlin stuff sounds great - I've not seen much of it other than the odd issue or reference here or there. I'm thinking of getting a Marvel Unlimited subscription in the hopes that some of that material is represented.

Dokken played here for a Ribfest and people were total assholes (Sparkle Motion), Saturday, 6 September 2014 23:59 (five years ago) link

I really dug the Howe book too! So many pros are pissed about it.

I haven't read these yet, but I thought I'd pass them on, two-part Shooter defense:
http://www.hoodedutilitarian.com/2013/01/jim-shooter-a-second-opinion-part-one-the-best-job-he-can/
http://www.hoodedutilitarian.com/2013/10/jim-shooter-a-second-opinion-part-two-romper-room-on-crystal-meth-installment-1/

Brakhage, Sunday, 7 September 2014 23:24 (five years ago) link

omg lolz @ that Ghost Rider + Jesus storyline, never heard of that before

Οὖτις, Monday, 8 September 2014 17:00 (five years ago) link

no kidding! if your main gripe about Jim Shooter is that he didn't want to publish your story where Jesus helps Ghost Rider, then you really have no ammo whatsoever, really

⌘-B (mh), Monday, 8 September 2014 17:48 (five years ago) link

Those Shooter defense articles have been linked to here before - they're still mostly bullshit. Creators had other, bigger gripes abt Shooter than that he wouldn't publish their Jesus/Ghost Rider story (but i mean, why not - this is a company that published Son of Satan, after all.)

I love the Sean Howe bk, gobbled it up, but I think there are other histories of Marvel and American comics still to be told - it's not, by any means, definitive.

sʌxihɔːl (Ward Fowler), Monday, 8 September 2014 18:41 (five years ago) link

yeah idk if Shooter was in the right there (it's conceivable) I just find the whole prospect v v 70s and v v funny

Οὖτις, Monday, 8 September 2014 18:56 (five years ago) link

If I were to do a radio-button poll of Marvel 70s "auteur" series, what should I include?

Starlin's Warlock
Moench/Gulacy Master of Kung Fu
McGregor/Graham Black Panther
McGregor/Russell Killraven
Wolfman/Colan Dracula
Wolfman/Perlin Werewolf by Night
Rich Buckler Deathlok
Steve Gerber, Howard the Duck
Gerber, Man-Thing

What else would fit in there? Any of the superhero titles?

Malibu Stasi (WilliamC), Monday, 8 September 2014 19:23 (five years ago) link

surely claremont's xmen, no?

the other song about butts in the top 5 (forksclovetofu), Monday, 8 September 2014 19:38 (five years ago) link

Gerber's Defenders is the only obvious omission. Maybe Starlin's Captain Marvel. Claremont might be outside the purview of that particular endeavor.

Coarse Apple Slaw (Old Lunch), Monday, 8 September 2014 19:38 (five years ago) link

xpost

Is Wolfman's Werewolf by Night run really thought of as 'auteur' comics? Moreso than the Gerry Conway issues, or the Doug Moench issues?

Would also include

Englehart/Brunner/Colan's Doctor Strange
Englehart/Starlin's Captain Marvel
Gerber's Defenders
Gerber/Skrenes' Omega the Unknown
McGregor's Power Man

sʌxihɔːl (Ward Fowler), Monday, 8 September 2014 19:41 (five years ago) link

the Claremont/Cockrum issues of X-Men are sort've the Marvel Comics equivalent of Jaws - recognisably the work of 70s auteurs, but also a harbinger of a new, less personally expressive/more commercially-minded way of creating comics

sʌxihɔːl (Ward Fowler), Monday, 8 September 2014 19:44 (five years ago) link

well put

the other song about butts in the top 5 (forksclovetofu), Monday, 8 September 2014 19:49 (five years ago) link

Is Wolfman's Werewolf by Night run really thought of as 'auteur' comics? Moreso than the Gerry Conway issues, or the Doug Moench issues?

My error on that one -- I meant to type Moench instead of Wolfman. The only issues I ever read were Moench/Perlin.

xp, yes, that's a great description of the X-Men revival

Malibu Stasi (WilliamC), Monday, 8 September 2014 20:09 (five years ago) link

Isn't Englehart's run on Cap A supposed to be pretty distinctive? I still need to order that essentials volume...

Rand McNulty (Jon Lewis), Monday, 8 September 2014 20:35 (five years ago) link

it's gd solid superhero comics w/ the odd bit of political 'relevance', but also slightly more 'straight'/mainstream than most of the titles william nominated (see also englehart's avengers) - i think in part that's because it was drawn by sal buscema (and often inked by vince colletta), so the storytelling and general look isn't so 'out' as say w/starlin (tho' sal b inked by klaus janson on gerber's defenders is a v. pleasing combo imho). the few issues of cap that gerber wrote later on are more bizarre than the englehart stuff (but then you could say the same abt kirby's seventies cap run)

sʌxihɔːl (Ward Fowler), Monday, 8 September 2014 20:45 (five years ago) link

All of his 70s Marvel work was pretty distinctive, but yeah, I would argue the Cap and Avengers runs could belong in this theoretical poll. Also, Don McGregor's wiki page says "He and artist P. Craig Russell engineered color comic books' first known interracial kiss, between the "Killraven" characters M'Shulla and Carmilla Frost, in Amazing Adventures #31 (July 1975)." But I just checked, and Gabe Jones' and Peggy Carter's kiss in Cap was a month earlier. (#186, June '75)

xp

Malibu Stasi (WilliamC), Monday, 8 September 2014 20:49 (five years ago) link

What would be a good corresponding radio-button list of 80s "auteurs selling out in style" blockbuster stories - Kraven's Last Hunt, Ground Zero (in Hulk), that sort of thing?

Chuck_Tatum, Saturday, 13 September 2014 12:13 (five years ago) link

I've often thought how great it would be to have a Mad Men-style period drama set within the offices of a Marvel-esque publisher. Names changed obviously, but using real events as inspiration. The history of the industry being what it is, there are so many potential story avenues it could go down.

Pheeel, Thursday, 18 September 2014 18:36 (five years ago) link

Great idea. There was a great episode of Deep Space 9 where all the principals were staffers at a 1950s SF Pulp mag...

arthur treacher, or the fall of the british empire (Jon Lewis), Thursday, 18 September 2014 18:58 (five years ago) link

Didn't Will Eisner or somebody do a barely-fictionalized book about working in the Harry 'A' Chesler shop? An account of 65-77 Marvel from the POVs of Sol Brodsky, Flo Steinberg, John Verpoorten and (especially) Marie Severin would be cool.

Malibu Stasi (WilliamC), Thursday, 18 September 2014 19:08 (five years ago) link

Kavalier and Klay's strongest parts are basically this.

the other song about butts in the top 5 (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 18 September 2014 19:43 (five years ago) link

Eisner's book is The Dreamer (all I can remember about it was that George Tuska was called 'Gar Tooth' in it!)

There's also this:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-aOwTPlkDAmM/T5a3YlkQFQI/AAAAAAAAQlQ/WTaYH4Z8X7o/s1600/What-If-v1-11_00fc.jpg

sʌxihɔːl (Ward Fowler), Thursday, 18 September 2014 19:49 (five years ago) link

Wholly tangentially, I was reminded recently after pulling my copy out of storage that The Maximortal is basically the bloated, pustulant ancestor of Kavalier & Klay. Now that is an adaptation I'd pay good money to see.

Kick And They Slap A Friend (Old Lunch), Thursday, 18 September 2014 19:52 (five years ago) link

xpost thanking u for new dn

Gar Tooth (Jon Lewis), Thursday, 18 September 2014 20:00 (five years ago) link

lol @ "original bullpen" with lantern-jawed, hair-headed Stan

Starland Vocal Gland (sic), Monday, 22 September 2014 04:38 (five years ago) link

I'm glad we have this thread -- I didn't want to throw a digression into the interesting discussion on the other thread. Just wanted to say that two issues in, Brian Wood's Moon Knight is just as awesome as Warren Ellis' was.

it's taco science, but it works like taco magic (WilliamC), Thursday, 2 October 2014 15:51 (five years ago) link

really? I run hot and cold on BW in that I was really into a lot of his work for years until I decided a lot of it falls kind of emotionally flat.

⌘-B (mh), Thursday, 2 October 2014 15:59 (five years ago) link

bit sad that Hawkeye and Superior Foes Of Spiderman are both ending in an issue or two - two of the best Marvel runs of the moment...

jamiesummerz, Thursday, 2 October 2014 15:59 (five years ago) link

I just looked at his wiki page and realized that he's the guy who'd been accused of sexual harassment by Tess Fowler last year, a story I didn't follow beyond the headlines. I don't think I'd read anything by him before, but I like these two MK issues. Seamless transition from Ellis, not a jarring "MY WAY NOW!" reboot.

it's taco science, but it works like taco magic (WilliamC), Thursday, 2 October 2014 16:19 (five years ago) link

I jumped off of Moon Knight after Ellis but it's still on my pull list. It's a little sad putting that issue back on the shelf instead of removing it from the list but part of me perversely enjoys actively rejecting Wood based off of the Fowler allegations.

On a different note, everything Al Ewing has touched to date has ruled.

💪😈⚠️ (DJP), Thursday, 2 October 2014 16:30 (five years ago) link

do you guys all buy new issues off the racks? Or off digital racks?
I am solely limiting my marvel intake to the unlimited app so i dunno how far behind all of you i am.

the other song about butts in the top 5 (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 2 October 2014 16:37 (five years ago) link

I'm a rack man.

(Repost to the out of context thread in 5, 4, 3...)

💪😈⚠️ (DJP), Thursday, 2 October 2014 16:39 (five years ago) link

otm about Al Ewing, Loki and Mighty Avengers are pretty much awesome every time

⌘-B (mh), Thursday, 2 October 2014 16:40 (five years ago) link

I was a voracious floppy hog (yet another out of context gift) until about three years ago when I stopped cold turkey. I'm slowly filling in gaps now but I mostly don't know anything that's happened from Fear Itself to present day.

Portly Backgammon (Old Lunch), Thursday, 2 October 2014 16:42 (five years ago) link

dan/lunch: i quit buying floppies about five years ago when i bought my ninth bookshelf solely for comics... do you bag/board/box? Why do you guys still buy physical capes and tights books? they take about two minutes to read and a year to form a complete storyline that, nine times out of ten, is worth nowhere near that amount of effort and collected editions are cheaper and more manageable. What's the appeal for you?

the other song about butts in the top 5 (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 2 October 2014 16:44 (five years ago) link

I box my stuff out of necessity but I'm generally not precious enough about it to bag it (lotsa beat up comics). Back when I did buy floppies regularly, it was honestly in large part because of the addictive ritual of going to the shop every Wednesday. But also because it was easier to keep on top of the stuff I read than buying it after the fact would've been (especially given Marvel's horrendous reprint policy). Nowadays, I generally buy older stuff in trades, with the exception of anything crossover-y (I can't stand jumping all over the place within a trade/between multiple trades when I'm trying to read what's ostensibly a single story).

Portly Backgammon (Old Lunch), Thursday, 2 October 2014 16:55 (five years ago) link

Also, while I find good value in digital (it's lovely to have hundreds of comics at the ready when I'm on the train), I vastly prefer to read physical copies of comics/books/etc. E-readers were much more favorable to my ADD when they were single-purpose devices.

Portly Backgammon (Old Lunch), Thursday, 2 October 2014 17:07 (five years ago) link

The new Bucky Barnes: Winter Soldier is pure ilx-fodder. Trippy water-color imagery that takes place on the planets Syro, Exai and Mer-z-bow and involves aliens Ventolin and Rossz Csillag. The story, though, is a bit meh, and most of it is imcomprehensible. But I can't help but think it's cool that Marvel publishes this kind of thing. Hope it succeeds.

Frederik B, Thursday, 2 October 2014 17:12 (five years ago) link

i do miss the ritual of comic book stores. sometimes i'll walk into one and kill an hour walking up and down the aisles but i generally leave with either a graphic novel i've long wanted or nothing.
ipad comic reading does just fine for me honestly; any issues i have with lack of haptics pales in comparison to portability, accessibility and space issues.

the other song about butts in the top 5 (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 2 October 2014 17:27 (five years ago) link

I have longboxes in basement storage and I like having physical, tangible objects

💪😈⚠️ (DJP), Thursday, 2 October 2014 17:40 (five years ago) link

i'd like having basement storage!

the other song about butts in the top 5 (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 2 October 2014 17:48 (five years ago) link

Yeah, I wish I had more storage space. We have a lockup in the storage room of our building which doesn't have space for much but even so I'm sure it's been a relationship saver.

Portly Backgammon (Old Lunch), Thursday, 2 October 2014 17:53 (five years ago) link

by the same token though, there's something to be said for being able to find anything you own in under ten minutes because it's on a shelf in front of you.
for me, boxes ultimately made it easy for me to lose or forget ownership or have any reason to curb my buying habits. Once I dumped about eight long boxes and bookshelved everything that i wanted to keep, I found i got a lot more choosy about where i wanted to buy... and it was often less about disposable income and more about what I could justify wanting to keep
that said, I now have a very specific sort of library that multiple moves over the past five years has left spread out all over the place and no close and nearby comic buddies to share it with. this is why people have children, isn't it?

the other song about butts in the top 5 (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 2 October 2014 17:56 (five years ago) link

I, uh, have a parrot and an eyepatch for current superhero stuff. And four longboxes, mostly 60s/70s Marvels and 80s indie floppies.

it's taco science, but it works like taco magic (WilliamC), Thursday, 2 October 2014 18:00 (five years ago) link

that said, I now have a very specific sort of library that multiple moves over the past five years has left spread out all over the place and no close and nearby comic buddies to share it with. this is why people have children, isn't it?

Feeling you. I also still have some stuff in a storage unit and in a shed at my mom's house. The thought of it all being in one place vividly illustrates the need for some hardcore paring down (or, perhaps, the selling of furniture). And, yeah, except for a few choice things my girlfriend's interested in, no one reads this shit but me, although I'd happily share the wealth.

Portly Backgammon (Old Lunch), Thursday, 2 October 2014 18:28 (five years ago) link

children are the worst man

Nhex, Thursday, 2 October 2014 19:31 (five years ago) link

I generally haven't bought floppies in years - not worth the time/space/effort - and with rare exceptions all I buy now are trades or graphic novels. I still have like 1 1/2 longboxes full of stuff I bought when I was younger and don't want to part with.

now, my daughter otoh - I buy her floppies of stuff she wants pretty regularly, maybe a couple a month. soon she will need a longbox of her own lol

Οὖτις, Thursday, 2 October 2014 20:34 (five years ago) link

a father's proudest moment

the other song about butts in the top 5 (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 2 October 2014 20:35 (five years ago) link

reading comics w kids is awesome I highly recommend it btw

Οὖτις, Thursday, 2 October 2014 20:36 (five years ago) link

right now all her comics are jammed into the coffee table

Οὖτις, Thursday, 2 October 2014 20:37 (five years ago) link

I buy floppies occasionally but half of them have coffee stains on them and once I am done with them I throw them in the recycling bin

⌘-B (mh), Thursday, 2 October 2014 21:09 (five years ago) link

I only buy my kid trades. We don't really have the room for individual issues. Actually, at the moment, about two years into our mutual comic store trips period, we're even pushing our limit on trades. I'll have to rearrange the bookshelves soon.

how's life, Thursday, 2 October 2014 21:13 (five years ago) link

I only buy trades/GNs now in physical form. Ran out of space for floppies years ago, and have found that the art genuinely seems to look better on an ipad's backlit screen.

Really looking forward to my daughter being old enough for comics. Got some Moomin and other stuff already for when she can read.

ornamental cabbage (James Morrison), Thursday, 2 October 2014 23:53 (five years ago) link

Straight scans of actual 60s and 70s marvel floppies look SO GOOD on a lit hd tablet screen.

a drug by the name of WORLD WITHOUT END (Jon Lewis), Friday, 3 October 2014 00:13 (five years ago) link

Ah - I need directing to some better ones then! I had to delete my Gerber Defenders scans, they were kind of unreadable.

Chuck_Tatum, Friday, 3 October 2014 09:57 (five years ago) link

there are definitely bad scans out there. most of the ones I've gotten from torrents have been pretty careful-looking. Haven't read my old defenders files yet-- I was most of the way through the gerber run in Marvel Essentials but I'm gonna start it over in color cbz.

for whatever reason, black and white comics don't seem right on a screen for me, even a really nice screen...

a drug by the name of WORLD WITHOUT END (Jon Lewis), Friday, 3 October 2014 15:38 (five years ago) link

Our Marvel All-Ages series are now changing names, but the stories remain the same! Marvel Universe Ultimate Spider-Man is now known as Marvel Universe Ultimate Spider-Man Web Warriors. That's not all! Marvel Universe Avengers Assemble will now be called Marvel Universe Avengers Assemble Season 2.

what the everloving fuck with these guys

the other song about butts in the top 5 (forksclovetofu), Monday, 6 October 2014 18:36 (five years ago) link

Marvel Universe Ultimate Spider-Man Beach Boys BBQ Blowout Bash Blast

Certified Genious (Old Lunch), Monday, 6 October 2014 18:39 (five years ago) link

in other news, squirrel girl

⌘-B (mh), Monday, 6 October 2014 18:43 (five years ago) link

heh Ryan North gettin' work!

Nhex, Monday, 6 October 2014 19:29 (five years ago) link

Our Marvel All-Ages series are now changing names, but the stories remain the same! Marvel Universe Ultimate Spider-Man is now known as Marvel Universe Ultimate Spider-Man Web Warriors. That's not all! Marvel Universe Avengers Assemble will now be called Marvel Universe Avengers Assemble Season 2.

what the everloving fuck with these guys
― the other song about butts in the top 5 (forksclovetofu), Monday, October 6, 2014 1:36 PM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I'm so glad I got out of comics, this is insanity atop insanity

RAP GAME SHANI DAVIS (Raymond Cummings), Monday, 6 October 2014 23:53 (five years ago) link

TBF, these are just marginal, 'based on the animated series!' comics, and the stupid titles are probably just edicts from some low-level Disney marketing exec. Not really reflective of the main line.

Certified Genious (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 7 October 2014 00:07 (five years ago) link

yeah, sorry tbf those are actually comix made for kids.
but the constant rebooting!

the other song about butts in the top 5 (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 7 October 2014 00:10 (five years ago) link

the titling of comics for kids should be WAY LESS confusing than for 40-yo babymen

Starland Vocal Gland (sic), Tuesday, 7 October 2014 00:21 (five years ago) link

like in the mid-00s the all-ages Marvel books were all "something Adventures" and collected in $5 digests, not full-size TPBs - easy branding

Starland Vocal Gland (sic), Tuesday, 7 October 2014 00:22 (five years ago) link

I'm presuming they're trying to match the cartoon titles exactly

the other song about butts in the top 5 (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 7 October 2014 00:23 (five years ago) link

it's actually kind of a savvy (though also obnoxious) move to title a second year of books "season 2" to match the TV series
web warriors is a good idea considering there's going to be a separate canon Miles Morales series that will follow Axis (if i understand correctly)

Nhex, Tuesday, 7 October 2014 06:08 (five years ago) link

So is Axis going to be really bad or what?

⌘-B (mh), Tuesday, 7 October 2014 12:30 (five years ago) link

Kinda old at this point but I don't remember seeing this piece on Ike Perlmutter posted anywhere around these parts. Pretty eye-opening. Among the alleged revelations: in order to punish the studios who are thwarting Marvel's desire to have all of their properties under one cinematic roof, there will be no new characters in the X-books and FF is being cancelled outright.

Certified Genious (Old Lunch), Thursday, 9 October 2014 14:41 (five years ago) link

Interesting, not aware of that guy. I didn't see anything about hobbling the X-Books and FF though, which sounds a little farfetched

Nhex, Thursday, 9 October 2014 14:53 (five years ago) link

That is more recent allegations. Can't remember who said there is a mandate not to create new x-characters, but it was someone with inside information. And it really seems as if FF will be canceled next year.

Frederik B, Thursday, 9 October 2014 14:59 (five years ago) link

Well, I imagine that sales of the FF comic are pretty marginal, and probably have been for years (it's sort've the same situation as with Superman - a foundational comic that doesn't actually sell that well.) But if only to protect the copyright, I'm sure the characters will continue to appear in Marvel Universe Comics, even if not in their own title.

sʌxihɔːl (Ward Fowler), Thursday, 9 October 2014 15:04 (five years ago) link

Oh, that stuff might've been in the io9 article I read last night that linked to the Perlmutter article. Sorry 'bout that.

Certified Genious (Old Lunch), Thursday, 9 October 2014 15:05 (five years ago) link

There's been an excess of X-characters since.. what, 1982? So that's not a totally bad idea to ease up on introducing new mutants. I say this just having read that years-long Messiah Complex-Messiah War run from ~2008-2010.

FF - yeah, I wonder when the last time FF was really a top Marvel book, maybe the 80s? How successful was that Waid run from the early 2000s in sales?

Nhex, Thursday, 9 October 2014 15:08 (five years ago) link

In a way, the Hickman run was pretty crucial, just in the way it showed what Hickman could do. He moved from there to Avengers. It also sold really, really well when one of them died. The Fraction FF with Shehulk, Medusa, Ant-man and, um, She-thing?, was pretty fun as well, and had good art by Allred.

Frederik B, Thursday, 9 October 2014 15:14 (five years ago) link

ha, EXACTLY what I was thinking of! that Arthur Adams art was awesome

Nhex, Thursday, 9 October 2014 15:22 (five years ago) link

Can't remember who said there is a mandate not to create new x-characters, but it was someone with inside information

Claremont.

Starland Vocal Gland (sic), Thursday, 9 October 2014 16:01 (five years ago) link

fucks sake

the other song about butts in the top 5 (forksclovetofu), Friday, 10 October 2014 01:59 (five years ago) link

i guess Miles Morales is gonna keep showing up in the 616 then...

Nhex, Friday, 10 October 2014 02:20 (five years ago) link

Those FFs are fun - checked them on MU. Thanks for that. And also this line in the CBR piece:

"Art Adams' women are gorgeous without being skanky."

Chuck_Tatum, Friday, 10 October 2014 02:28 (five years ago) link

The original Secret Wars was exactly what company-wide events should be: the crossover part of the plot was limited to one maxi-series, and only the after-effects were shown in individual titles, so you didn't have to read any of the tie-in issues to get what's going on. It's sad that Marvel seems to have forgotten this, the crossovers of the 00s and 10s have become increasingly incoherent messes, with different writers adding their own bits that often don't jibe with each other. Seems like the new SW will be like this too.

Tuomas, Friday, 10 October 2014 06:18 (five years ago) link

But I guess back in the 80s they had to consider the fact that most of their readers were kids who couldn't afford to buy every tie-in issue, not middle-aged geezers who can.

Tuomas, Friday, 10 October 2014 06:29 (five years ago) link

CBR is an appallingly written website. I have a bizarre compulsion to read their 'Comics Legends Explained' series every saturday morning, but I come for the trivia, not the prose, which is eye-wateringly clumsy and amateur.

You've been yelped (stevie), Friday, 10 October 2014 08:33 (five years ago) link

Not all of their writers are bad, though... Personally I like Greg Burgas, who currently has a nice article series running where he analyzes the stylish developments of various comic book artists. It's true that Brian Cronin, the guy who writes (among others) the Comic Book Legends series, has a weirdly amateurish writing style, even though he's done it for years and has even published a book on the those comic book legends.

Tuomas, Friday, 10 October 2014 11:02 (five years ago) link

was that book self-published? it's a good feature/book idea, but so badly written.

You've been yelped (stevie), Friday, 10 October 2014 11:18 (five years ago) link

Nope, it appears to have been published by a subsidiary of Penguin. And judging by that first Amazon review, it suffers from the same problems as his columns.

Tuomas, Friday, 10 October 2014 12:06 (five years ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00LIsgWrKPs

Pheeel, Friday, 10 October 2014 12:55 (five years ago) link

that's a pretty good stan lee voice

the other song about butts in the top 5 (forksclovetofu), Friday, 10 October 2014 14:29 (five years ago) link

The original Secret Wars was exactly what company-wide events should be

a legal dodge to safeguard against potential lawsuits from creators that the company screwed over? sounds about right

Οὖτις, Friday, 10 October 2014 15:19 (five years ago) link

??

I thought it was to sell toys.

EZ Snappin, Friday, 10 October 2014 15:22 (five years ago) link

dying at K&P sketch

Οὖτις, Friday, 10 October 2014 15:24 (five years ago) link

I thought it was to sell toys.

persistent rumor that makes a lot of sense (c+p'd from another forum): The reason for the Secret Wars was back in 1982/83, Jack Kirby was in a lawsuit against Marvel over the rights of the characters he created and to get his original art back. The rumor is that Jim Shooter wrote Secret Wars in order to subtly change some of the characters in case Marvel lost (Spidey in the Black suit, She-Hulk joining FF, various characters in costume/personality changes etc). Marvel were afraid that if Jack won, then other artists (ie-Steve Ditko), would file their own suit. Hence, the mass-scale change. After Kirby and Marvel settled the characters that were changed reverted back to their original conception.

I have no evidence to support this apart from the timeline lining up and my enduring confidence in the bottomless pit of Marvel's cynicism

Οὖτις, Friday, 10 October 2014 15:33 (five years ago) link

Kirby was not involved in a lawsuit with Marvel.

Starland Vocal Gland (sic), Friday, 10 October 2014 16:17 (five years ago) link

I couldn't remember if he was just threatening or it was a dispute or a lawsuit had been filed or not but I had faith that you would correct me

Οὖτις, Friday, 10 October 2014 16:21 (five years ago) link

Marvel Universe Ultimate Spider-Man is now known as Marvel Universe Ultimate Spider-Man Web Warriors

wtf

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Monday, 13 October 2014 15:56 (five years ago) link

It's a comic for kids, as in actual kids five years old or something. It looks like this:

http://subscriptions.marvel.com/images/PRODUCT/FUL/3891_ful.jpg

It's got nothing to do with the Marvel Universe or the Ultimate Universe. It's just for little kids, so it's got a fun name.

Eyeball Kicks, Monday, 13 October 2014 22:27 (five years ago) link

Oh wait, it's the name of a cartoon for kids. So this is the comic of the cartoon.

Eyeball Kicks, Monday, 13 October 2014 22:29 (five years ago) link

Marvel's Ultimate Spider Man Web Warriors: The Comic of The Cartoon

the other song about butts in the top 5 (forksclovetofu), Monday, 13 October 2014 22:37 (five years ago) link

Exactly.

Nhex, Monday, 13 October 2014 22:37 (five years ago) link

tbf almost every Marvel/DC animated show has had a counterpart book in the style of the show

Nhex, Monday, 13 October 2014 22:38 (five years ago) link

i see ultimate spiderman, classic spiderman, brock venom, SpiderMan2099, Scarlet Spider and Spider Girl... who are the other two?

the other song about butts in the top 5 (forksclovetofu), Monday, 13 October 2014 22:38 (five years ago) link

The one on the right edge I think is Spider-Man Noir. Red/Yellow Iron Spidey was from Civil War-era. The two on the left I'm not sure about.

Nhex, Monday, 13 October 2014 22:54 (five years ago) link

lol "Spider Man Noir"; that sounds right.
I'm pretty sure red/yellow spidey is the scarlet spider
Bottom left is nu-hero Venom. It's the one above that I can't place.

the other song about butts in the top 5 (forksclovetofu), Monday, 13 October 2014 23:14 (five years ago) link

Ha, the Iron Spider is an alternate universe Amadeus Cho! Nice!

Nhex, Monday, 13 October 2014 23:27 (five years ago) link

Spider-Ham makes an appearance. I might actually watch this show

Nhex, Monday, 13 October 2014 23:29 (five years ago) link

I think most of these and more will be in EDGE OF SPIDERVERSE

⌘-B (mh), Monday, 13 October 2014 23:31 (five years ago) link

I thought you were joking but that's a real event!

Nhex, Monday, 13 October 2014 23:55 (five years ago) link

I know, right? Those pesky spider-killers are jumping across universes and only a team of spider-people can stop them!

⌘-B (mh), Tuesday, 14 October 2014 00:13 (five years ago) link

Marvel's Ultimate Spider Man Web Warriors The Comic of The Cartoon presents EDGE OF THE SPIDERVERSE: And One Must Fall!

the other song about butts in the top 5 (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 14 October 2014 01:04 (five years ago) link

They haven't quite been there yet, forks

⌘-B (mh), Tuesday, 14 October 2014 01:47 (five years ago) link

excelsior

the other song about butts in the top 5 (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 14 October 2014 02:14 (five years ago) link

The red/yellow Spider-Man is indeed from Civil War era: there were three clones (or something) that wore that costume, though AFAIK they weren't related to Scarlet Spider or the original Clone Saga. IIRC Spider-Man himself might've worn the red/yellow thing at some point too.

Tuomas, Tuesday, 14 October 2014 11:31 (five years ago) link

Ah, apparently the CW era red/yellow spidermen were also called "Scarlet Spiders", even though they had nothing to do with the Clone Saga Scarlet Spider. How confusing.

Tuomas, Tuesday, 14 October 2014 11:35 (five years ago) link

I believe they just violently killed Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends in a recent issue (no, really)

Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 14 October 2014 11:49 (five years ago) link

on an unrelated note i'm super into X-Statix right now, or at least I have been for a dozen issues or so--it's funny, ~90s edgy~ (they spend a third of their time in-fighting about marketing deals & manufacturing drama for ratings on their televised superheroics, the writers must have watched Natural Born Killers a bunch or something), surprising. none of the characters are likeable, but i'm most of the way through all 38 issues, so i'm sort of looking forward to the end.

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, 14 October 2014 17:00 (five years ago) link

The Milligan/Allred run on X-Force/X-Statix isn't really typical of the 90s though, their take on superheroes as cynical celebrities was pretty unique. (The only precedent I can think of is Verheiden's "The American".) I hated the way it ended though, even if it made some thematical sense, given the way theit X-Force started.

Tuomas, Tuesday, 14 October 2014 17:31 (five years ago) link

The Milligan/Allred run on X-Force/X-Statix isn't really typical of the 90s though, their take on superheroes as cynical celebrities was pretty unique

right, i've gathered as much--picked it up after gillen/mckelvie's young avengers run, read an interview where they cited it as a big influence.

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, 14 October 2014 17:39 (five years ago) link

the writers must have watched Natural Born Killers a bunch or something

hoos I always find it curious that someone as political in life as you can be so enthusiastically into as virulently anti-labor a company as Marvel! but there's one writer of X-Statix and it's Peter Milligan

PS it's from the '00s, not the '90s, and feels distinctly an artifact of that time to me. Also if you didn't read Milligan & Allred's 12-issue run on X-Force that set up -Statix, pause the latter and go back immediately!

Starland Vocal Gland (sic), Tuesday, 14 October 2014 17:53 (five years ago) link

^^^ yes, do that

💪😈⚠️ (DJP), Tuesday, 14 October 2014 18:00 (five years ago) link

it's from the '00s, not the '90s,

yeah i saw that just now looking at the wiki and was surprised, to me it feels very "gen x cynical" (whatever that means idk) but i suppose all the reality tv reference points probably mark it more clearly as an early 00s thing

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, 14 October 2014 18:33 (five years ago) link

hoos I always find it curious that someone as political in life as you can be so enthusiastically into as virulently anti-labor a company as Marvel!

i only really know what i hear alluded to around here and what i read in that mammoth jack kirby thread! i suppose i should grab the sean howe book or something

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, 14 October 2014 18:34 (five years ago) link

They don't pay royalties or foreign publication fees.

Starland Vocal Gland (sic), Wednesday, 15 October 2014 18:27 (four years ago) link

Charles Soule's She-Hulk to be cancelled after #12. If rebooting and renumbering a title after every creative team change is the way forward, I just want to go on the record as really really hating it.

Pict in a blanket (WilliamC), Tuesday, 21 October 2014 20:24 (four years ago) link

No worries, they'll also be renumbered for roughly six months whenever the number of cumulative issues from all seventeen volumes of a given title hits a notable benchmark ending in '00'.

Remoistening The Trough (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 21 October 2014 20:52 (four years ago) link

I wish the writing in the Soule issues was anywhere as good as the art.

Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 22 October 2014 10:40 (four years ago) link

I wish the plot idea was anywhere as good as... I don't know, 1/2 of all Marvel comics plots of the last decade

⌘-B (mh), Wednesday, 22 October 2014 13:44 (four years ago) link

I can't tell if it's Soule's style that leaves me cold (for any of his books) or if he's just, you know, not very good.

Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 22 October 2014 16:24 (four years ago) link

I think he's a bit shit tbh.

tsrobodo, Wednesday, 22 October 2014 19:00 (four years ago) link

Charles Soule's She-Hulk to be cancelled after #12. If rebooting and renumbering a title after every creative team change is the way forward, I just want to go on the record as really really hating it.

I'm in the middle of my monthly order, but yes, fuck Marvel for this shit. So many #1s every month.

Though I think this one is less reboot and renumber than "miserable failure" sales-wise. Last issue sold 1/5 the copies of the current Hulk title for me, which is already one of the weaker big-name titles.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Thursday, 23 October 2014 00:54 (four years ago) link

i always liked what i'd read of soule's she-hulk, felt very fraction's hawkeye to me, which was a good thing in my (uh) book.

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 23 October 2014 20:56 (four years ago) link

Ditto, I was sad at the hatin' on it ITT.

Pict in a blanket (WilliamC), Thursday, 23 October 2014 21:04 (four years ago) link

Yeah, I like Soule's She-hulk, will be sad to see it go, as I was with Superior Foes

ornamental cabbage (James Morrison), Thursday, 23 October 2014 23:50 (four years ago) link

There are 13 different covers for Marvel's first new Star Wars title. Fuck this shit.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Wednesday, 29 October 2014 21:41 (four years ago) link

i think you only need to buy one to read the comics story

jamiesummerz, Thursday, 30 October 2014 00:37 (four years ago) link

variant covers are bullshit and an act of disrespect to readers and of financial violence to retailers

Starland Vocal Gland (sic), Thursday, 30 October 2014 03:04 (four years ago) link

true, but remember polybags? now THAT is an act of disrespect to writers

Steve 'n' Seagulls and Flock of Van Dammes (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 30 October 2014 03:39 (four years ago) link

Do not understand the pull of variant covers. Surely nobody buys these for speculator value any more? Is there even any such thing these days? And if you like the picture, fuck, download the JPG from Marvels's site and buy a cheap-cover copy.

ornamental cabbage (James Morrison), Thursday, 30 October 2014 04:56 (four years ago) link

Varient covers are the crystal meth for collector nurds and the greasy sharks that surround them. The worst of the type are the guys who worry about a comic store putting as stamp or sticker on a Comic Book Day freebie. I'm not sure if that rung of hell is above or below the record collector nurds.

earlnash, Thursday, 30 October 2014 22:38 (four years ago) link

People worry about that?! I haven't had anyone complain to me, at least, or I would have started laughing.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Friday, 31 October 2014 01:26 (four years ago) link

So does the nerd variant cover market subsidise the rest of us?

Chuck_Tatum, Friday, 31 October 2014 22:58 (four years ago) link

The ones I really don't understand are those sub-Calvin and Hobbes variant covers by - is it Chris Eliopoulos? They're just so... creepy and sad.

Chuck_Tatum, Friday, 31 October 2014 23:02 (four years ago) link

It subsidizes retailers and/or pumps up numbers for titles - with the Amazing Spider-Man #1, between two stores I ordered 300 copies IIRC. My price on that would be $670 - I got one 1:300 sketch variant that I sold for $200, two more non-sketch variants of that cover that I sold for $100 apiece and ~10 other variants that sold for $10-75 apiece. I made back all my ASM#1 money before I sold a single issue. That was with a blockbuster, though.

A lot of the variants Marvel solicits these days sell for no premium, you can just order them if you hit a target of some kind - which is a massive PITA. If I normally order 40 of something and they have four variants that are tied to it but - I now have to order 60 if I want the 40 I need for the target plus five of each for the people who want Skottie Young or whatever Deadpool variant is out this week. So I just don't bother with most variants that aren't incentive variants I can sell to defray costs.

Variants can pump up numbers in situations like Star Wars - there's a 1:500 incentive variant and people are talking about ordering 500 just to get that one, when they might sell 100 of the issue itself. I'm not willing to bet that kind of money and have 400 extra copies on the chance I get a mint variant and can find a buyer. I grew up around comics and baseball cards, so I know how speculation works out with this stuff.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Friday, 31 October 2014 23:18 (four years ago) link

I got one 1:300 sketch variant that I sold for $200

I'm glad it helps your store stay afloat, but I just don't get who's made enough to do this. It's not as though it's an actual original sketch, just a printed copy on a crappy floppy

ornamental cabbage (James Morrison), Wednesday, 5 November 2014 02:04 (four years ago) link

MAD enough

ornamental cabbage (James Morrison), Wednesday, 5 November 2014 02:04 (four years ago) link

there was a 75th anniversary hagiography on network tv tonight that i taped, curious to see how marvel presents its own history these days

Steve 'n' Seagulls and Flock of Van Dammes (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 5 November 2014 02:32 (four years ago) link

Someone asked me to recommend them issues of Deadpool, which I've never read, so would welcome yr suggestions.

sʌxihɔːl (Ward Fowler), Wednesday, 5 November 2014 07:29 (four years ago) link

nah

the incredible string gland (sic), Wednesday, 5 November 2014 09:08 (four years ago) link

I've never read much Deadpool but I've been enjoying the recent Brian Posehn / Gerry Duggan Deadpool run via Marvel Unlimited. A nice mix of goofy fun stuff and some surprising character depth. I remember liking Gail Simone's Deadpool / Agent X issues back in the early years of the 21st century too.

bizarro gazzara, Wednesday, 5 November 2014 10:40 (four years ago) link

Kind of looking forward to the day when all this Spiderverse silliness hits Marvel Unlimited

mh, Wednesday, 5 November 2014 16:19 (four years ago) link

^word

Nhex, Wednesday, 5 November 2014 16:30 (four years ago) link

reading the slott silver surfer right now, leaving me a little cold, but the writing is funny

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 5 November 2014 18:32 (four years ago) link

OG Joe Kelly Deadpool run rules

kissaroo and Tyler, too (DJP), Thursday, 6 November 2014 00:28 (four years ago) link

Thank you BG and DJP for the DPool recs, have passed them on

sʌxihɔːl (Ward Fowler), Thursday, 6 November 2014 10:07 (four years ago) link

I never followed Marvel in the Liefeld era and Deadpool feels a bit like a private joke I don't get

Or at least I kind of associate him with Robert Kirkman-style comics with no heart and lots of lovingly detailed gruey body stuff

Is that wrong? Or is that right, but the comics are still ok?

Chuck_Tatum, Thursday, 6 November 2014 15:32 (four years ago) link

Pretty much every Deadpool thing I've read has been hot garbage, but I haven't read much/any of the Deadpool runs that are considered "classic" so my opinion should be taken with a grain of salt.

A Marvelous Pizza-Viewing Experience (Old Lunch), Thursday, 6 November 2014 15:48 (four years ago) link

Half of Joe Kelly's run was spent making fun of Liefeld's nonsense and the other half was spent making fun of the rest of the Marvel Universe

kissaroo and Tyler, too (DJP), Thursday, 6 November 2014 23:56 (four years ago) link

It'll be interesting to see how all the currently Hickman/Avengers/8 months later countdown stuff reads when collected. There are enough intertwined story bits right now that reading it monthly is kind of rewarding. All the stuff he introduced at the beginning of his run has been kept in play and is now starting to flush out!

jenny holzer, ilxor (mh), Wednesday, 19 November 2014 15:45 (four years ago) link

I can't really think of many other writers/comics events that have juggled different teams and events while keeping all the balls in the air

jenny holzer, ilxor (mh), Wednesday, 19 November 2014 15:46 (four years ago) link

i find hickman exhausting and unpleasant to read. I'd like to request a moratorium on full page every issue recaps and black page / white text "NOW" dividers.

So beautiful cow (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 19 November 2014 15:53 (four years ago) link

I used to be on the fence! It's a time investment and it definitely doesn't work for everyone, but pondering how certain characters would react to events, to each other, with the different players and personalities in play and doing it over months instead of pages is something I think he's gotten better at.

jenny holzer, ilxor (mh), Wednesday, 19 November 2014 15:55 (four years ago) link

his SHIELD series stuff really fell flat for me originally but Secret Warriors was where I got on board with his Marvel work and went back to read the FF/Ultimate FF stuff

jenny holzer, ilxor (mh), Wednesday, 19 November 2014 15:56 (four years ago) link

i like how bendis has basically just carried over his avengers plotlines/characters to the x-books he's writing now.

can't get on w/ hickman at all.

sʌxihɔːl (Ward Fowler), Wednesday, 19 November 2014 16:00 (four years ago) link

nice thing about Marvel right now is they have two completely different events with the same set of characters and don't seem to care at all. not sure how I feel about Axis, but it's somewhat interesting

which is fine with me. having strong continuity across the entire line just means you don't get to do what you want with characters

Jason Aaron's Thor is still pretty great!

jenny holzer, ilxor (mh), Wednesday, 19 November 2014 16:04 (four years ago) link

so far Axis can bite me

the farakhan of gg (DJP), Wednesday, 19 November 2014 19:53 (four years ago) link

Remender has been absolute shit since X-Force. But I wasn't into his pre-X-Force stuff so I'm thinking it's the anomaly and not what I hoped was an upturn in quality.

EZ Snappin, Wednesday, 19 November 2014 19:54 (four years ago) link

Don't get me started on "hey guys, we made Falcon into Captain America and then for his first trip out decided he should be EEEEEEEEVIL"

the farakhan of gg (DJP), Wednesday, 19 November 2014 19:56 (four years ago) link

I will cosign x-force tho'

So beautiful cow (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 19 November 2014 20:06 (four years ago) link

oh his X-Force was great

the farakhan of gg (DJP), Wednesday, 19 November 2014 20:29 (four years ago) link

is Mighty Avengers part of the Axis bullshit or no

jenny holzer, ilxor (mh), Wednesday, 19 November 2014 22:41 (four years ago) link

Unfortunately yes

the farakhan of gg (DJP), Thursday, 20 November 2014 02:22 (four years ago) link

two weeks pass...

Don't really know what thread to ask this on, might as well try this one.

My housemate, and occasional comic reader, was really into Moon Knight as a kid and I thought it might be fun to get him a MK trade for xmas. Are there any good runs from the last decade or so which have been collected?

the joke should be over once the kid is eaten. (chap), Monday, 8 December 2014 19:56 (four years ago) link

People have been speaking very highly about the recent Warren Ellis run, but I haven't read it. It's collected in a single cheap trade. There's also the recent but higher-priced Epic Collection featuring the earliest stories (basically the same stuff that's in the first Essential Moon Knight but in color).

Hamhole and Fly Eyes (Old Lunch), Monday, 8 December 2014 20:03 (four years ago) link

The new Ellis run is excellent, I'll cosign that as worth buying for sure.

a stupid red mute juggalo (forksclovetofu), Monday, 8 December 2014 20:10 (four years ago) link

yeah it pretty much ruled

the farakhan of gg (DJP), Monday, 8 December 2014 20:21 (four years ago) link

Cheers, seems like that'll be the one.

the joke should be over once the kid is eaten. (chap), Monday, 8 December 2014 20:47 (four years ago) link

xp -- Agreed.

The Bendis/Maleev series (12 issues, 2011-2012) wasn't so great. Scene-setting for Age of Ultron, killed off the character Echo. It did look good, though (I'm a big Maleev fan).

Pict in a blanket (WilliamC), Monday, 8 December 2014 21:14 (four years ago) link

I think I read that and blocked out them killing Echo :/

valleys of your mind (mh), Monday, 8 December 2014 21:39 (four years ago) link

I liked when she showed up to help in Japan as Ronin and it took until the very end for anyone to realize Ronin didn't catch what you were saying unless you had eye contact, even though there were clues

valleys of your mind (mh), Monday, 8 December 2014 21:40 (four years ago) link

Didn't realize Echo was dead. Thanks for spoiling a story from three years ago, jeez.

Hamhole and Fly Eyes (Old Lunch), Monday, 8 December 2014 21:45 (four years ago) link

Eh, she disappeared for years at a time anyway

Nhex, Monday, 8 December 2014 21:47 (four years ago) link

They reprinted the first Moon Knight series also in Marvel Essentials, which you might still be able to find. It's one of those series that really looks just as good in black and white especially Sienkiewicz's artwork.

earlnash, Monday, 8 December 2014 23:43 (four years ago) link

So, thanks to the success of the Guardians of the Galaxy movie, Marvel has been reprinting Abnett & Lanning's GotG and various related titles (Annihilation Conquest, War of Kings, Realm of Kings, etc), which is nice, because I missed buying them in physical format when they first came out, I was poor back then and read them on the computer. Anyway, the second big GotG collection just came out, and rereading stuff has been tremendously fun and thrilling, I still feel these are among the best comics Marvel has put out in the last decade. (Too bad A&L exited the cosmic Marvel comics, and GotG is now being written by Bendis, in his trademark mediocre style.) They haven't reprinted Abnett & Lanning's Nova though, which is sad, because I remember it being almost as good and thrill-powered as GotG (even if the whole Nova Corps concept is a pretty shameless Green Lantern ripoff). Hopefully the sequel movie will expand the Nova stuff seen in the first movie and introduce Richard Rider, so they'd have an excuse to reprint that run too.

Tuomas, Tuesday, 9 December 2014 20:39 (four years ago) link

Yeah, the lack of Nova re-reprints is just Marvel being Marvel. The two books were pretty intimately linked and tied into no fewer than four crossovers. If they're smart, they'll put out a couple of Cosmic Marvel omnibi after the upcoming Annihilation: Conquest omnibus and collect this material in a way that makes sense.

FYI, Abnett is currently writing a new Guardians title featuring the OG team.

Hamhole and Fly Eyes (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 9 December 2014 20:49 (four years ago) link

Ah, okay, I didn't know that! Does "OG team" mean the original seventies Guardians?

Tuomas, Tuesday, 9 December 2014 21:43 (four years ago) link

Yeah, as far as I know. I haven't read it yet but that's how it's been solicited.

Hamhole and Fly Eyes (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 9 December 2014 21:45 (four years ago) link

one month passes...

the hype! this event will live up to it! really!

Οὖτις, Friday, 30 January 2015 19:34 (four years ago) link

I'm gonna wind up spending so much money that I don't really need to be spending...

In other news, 6+ months later, I've just about finished reading all of the '60s Marvel stuff (up to mid-'69 at the moment). Trying to decide whether to just plunge insanely ahead into the '70s or if a break is advisable.

Indiana Jones and the Sphincter of the Sphinx (Old Lunch), Friday, 30 January 2015 19:46 (four years ago) link

Maybe a break before you head into the auteur years at Marvel, which is the most fascinating stretch of its history to me. Englehart, Starlin, McGregor, Moench, Wolfman/Colan on Drac, etc. A mix of their highest highs and most embarrassing failures. Everything up to Jim Shooter's ascension as Eastern Pontiff Ed-in-Chief, aka The Day the Music Died.

WilliamC, Friday, 30 January 2015 20:27 (four years ago) link

I feel like I should start a thread for '60s Marvel questions and fun facts while this stuff is still relatively fresh in my brain. One of the bigger revelations for me was John Romita Sr.'s early work (I'd never found him particularly noteworthy before) and the extent to which that early work was clearly super influential on Jaime Hernandez. The early appearances of Mary Jane are basically proto-Penny Century.

Indiana Jones and the Sphincter of the Sphinx (Old Lunch), Friday, 30 January 2015 20:38 (four years ago) link

my Bronze-era Marvel knowledge is p spotty, even though the tail end of that era was when I first started reading comics. The initial post-Kirby years are a total blank for me for the most part. I did pick up some Avengers vs. Thanos reprint collection the other day and it seemed to collect a lot of the key Starlin stuff, but it didn't blow me away or anything. It does seem like a v strange era.

Οὖτις, Friday, 30 January 2015 20:42 (four years ago) link

By the time he came to draw Spider-Man Romita Sr had been a comics professional for something like fifteen years, so calling his Marvel stuff 'early work' is not entirely accurate. Romita had been toiling away mainly at DC/National, drawing romance and war strips; like many National artists of the post-war period, Romita he was a devout Caniff worshipper, so the way he drew his female characters was clearly indebted to (but not swiped from) things like Caniff's Male Call. Working initially from Kirby layouts on Daredevil, he quickly picked up on the kind of artist-driven dynamic storytelling that was the Marvel house style throughout the 60s, and was always excellent at things like 'modern' clothing, haircuts etc. Stan Lee clearly adored the way he 'sexed up' Spider-Man following Ditko's departureand it doesn't seem a coincidence that Spider-Man became Marvel's best-selling title once Romita took over. His main problem - he wasn't fast enough.

sʌxihɔːl (Ward Fowler), Friday, 30 January 2015 20:58 (four years ago) link

Yeah, I should've specified that I meant his early Marvel U work. Dude was clearly already super-polished by the time he started on Amazing so I figured he'd been doing it for a while at that point.

Indiana Jones and the Sphincter of the Sphinx (Old Lunch), Friday, 30 January 2015 21:01 (four years ago) link

Also revelatory (although disappointing) is the dearth of standout Marvel artists in the '60s. I mean, it's pretty much Kirby, Steranko (more for design sense than draftsmanship), Romita, Colan, and Ditko (who, after extended exposure to his prime Marvel era, I'm realizing I'm not actually that crazy about). Buscema and Barry Windsor Smith have just gotten started. Everyone else is workmanlike at best and laughable at worst. I guess there's a reason why those particular names are still known 40+ years after the fact.

Indiana Jones and the Sphincter of the Sphinx (Old Lunch), Friday, 30 January 2015 21:08 (four years ago) link

Those guys plus Heck and Ayers could, and just about did, draw the whole roster of titles before the distribution bottleneck was removed in 1968. There were some truly horrific inkers — coughgeorgeroussoscough — back in those days.

WilliamC, Friday, 30 January 2015 21:23 (four years ago) link

I also like the Severins, but John was, I think, doing mostly war and western in the '60s and Marie was mostly being inked horribly.

Indiana Jones and the Sphincter of the Sphinx (Old Lunch), Friday, 30 January 2015 21:29 (four years ago) link

Buscema began drawing for Marvel in 66, slightly before Steranko. And I can't think of a comics company w/ a better frontline than Kirby, Ditko, Buscema, Colan and Romita (not to mention intermittent appearances from Wally Wood, Gil Kane, Bill Everett, Bob Powell, John Severin etc etc).

I sort've prefer the crude vitality of George Roussos' inking to the dead line of Ayers (or ugh Paul Reinman), but they had some great inkers in the 60s, too - a young Tom Palmer, already possibly the greatest comics inker of all time, Joe Sinnott, Chic Stone, George Klein, Everett again doing luscious work on Kirby; even Vince Colletta raised his game on Thor for a while (until he started erasing Kirby's backgrounds to save time).

sʌxihɔːl (Ward Fowler), Friday, 30 January 2015 21:41 (four years ago) link

You know, you're absolutely right that those guys really are top-tier. I think I'm just more disappointed because I'd hoped to stumble upon more quality artists from this period that I wasn't already familiar with.

I don't think I realized before that Colan was such a cornerstone of silver age Marvel. I associate him mainly with Daredevil and Tomb of Dracula and, because his style is so distinct in comarison to anything resembling the house style, I had always figured him for more of a niche guy.

Indiana Jones and the Sphincter of the Sphinx (Old Lunch), Friday, 30 January 2015 21:52 (four years ago) link

Colan was the great third way of marvel storytelling, which wasn't really followed up. Lots of artists took after Kirby, some took after Ditko, but who the hell took after Colan?

Old Lunch you should totally get your thoughts down on this while they're fresh.

a drug by the name of WORLD WITHOUT END (Jon Lewis), Friday, 30 January 2015 23:47 (four years ago) link

huh was unaware Colan took on Dr. Strange, and also

Colan admitted relying upon amphetamines in order to make deadlines for illustrating the series Doctor Strange,[28] for which he would personally visit the character's real-life Manhattan neighborhood, Greenwich Village, and shoot Polaroid photographs to use as location reference.

Οὖτις, Friday, 30 January 2015 23:59 (four years ago) link

I bet Colan had colorists in the mechanical separation days pulling out their hair, with his blurs and speed lines.

xp -- yeah, iirc Colan was the artist during that funky run when Strange and Clea went back to 1776 and Ben Franklin seduced her while Strange was off saving the world.

WilliamC, Saturday, 31 January 2015 00:07 (four years ago) link

Old Lunch, is there a timeline checklist that you're working off of?

Sounds like a forks display name (forksclovetofu), Saturday, 31 January 2015 03:46 (four years ago) link

also i find hickman's avengers work pretty much unreadable

Sounds like a forks display name (forksclovetofu), Saturday, 31 January 2015 03:47 (four years ago) link

Yeah, forks, I'm roughly following this site, which has been mostly on point.

And Jon, I may have been taking notes throughout this endeavor. Which is pretty much the only way to ensure that I won't have forgotten everything I've read six months from now.

Indiana Jones and the Sphincter of the Sphinx (Old Lunch), Saturday, 31 January 2015 06:56 (four years ago) link

OL, are you doing this through t0rrence or Marvel Unlimited? If the latter, i might play along someday.

Sounds like a forks display name (forksclovetofu), Saturday, 31 January 2015 06:58 (four years ago) link

The stupidest story element of the '60s, hands down, was Mike Murdoch. Secret identities are such a flawed and shaky concept to begin with (and require otherwise intelligent characters to suffer temporary brain damage when they get anywhere near putting the pieces together) that, naturally, the solution is to introduce a third identity in the form of your identical, jive-talkin' twin brother who no one has ever met before and with whom you're never seen. And then when the heat is on, kill off your fake twin (habeus corpus be damned) and just say that, uh, some other dude is Daredevil now...I guess?

Indiana Jones and the Sphincter of the Sphinx (Old Lunch), Saturday, 31 January 2015 07:06 (four years ago) link

i gotta say, everytime i try to read that era, the stan lee-isms just bring me to my knees.

Sounds like a forks display name (forksclovetofu), Saturday, 31 January 2015 07:08 (four years ago) link

xxpost Well, I have all of the '60s Essentials, so I have legit paper copies of 90+% of this stuff. But I've done a lot of my reading via Kindle on the train and don't want to deal with unnecessary gaps, so my electronic copies aren't precisely above board. I'll do Marvel Unlimited someday when my finances are a little rosier but I'm too much of a control freak about this stuff to not maintain my own complete collection on the side.

Indiana Jones and the Sphincter of the Sphinx (Old Lunch), Saturday, 31 January 2015 07:12 (four years ago) link

Aside from historical interest, I don't know how strongly I'd recommend '60s Marvel to the uninitiated. Not very strongly.

Indiana Jones and the Sphincter of the Sphinx (Old Lunch), Saturday, 31 January 2015 07:14 (four years ago) link

huh was unaware Colan took on Dr. Strange

Colan had two substantial runs on Dr Strange, in the 60s and 70s, both inked by Tom Palmer, both excellent - the 60s issues written by Roy Thomas (who gives Doc S a mask!), the 70s by Englehart at his most cosmically ambitious. Didn't know Gene the Dean was a speed freak tho (the history of comics and amphetamines still needs to be written).

sʌxihɔːl (Ward Fowler), Saturday, 31 January 2015 09:58 (four years ago) link

I always thought Gene Colan had a pretty unique cinematographic perspective to his pages. Most of the big Marvel/DC artists of his period more often would have the angle so you are looking down at the item in the picture, Colan would often use the perspective from looking up at the character in the frame. I think Colan had this in his earlier comics, but as he got working for Marvel and on into the 70s then back to DC, it became more his thing. It kind of reminds me of some of the camera angle tricks you would see in some 60s movies and TV shows, especially something where they wanted to give the effect of 'things are not right'.

Can't think of too many pros that directly looked like Colan, but I think some of that panel layout and perspective many other artists picked up from him. I think you see it in Miller's Daredevil quite a bit. Tom Mandrake is one 80s/90s comic artist whose style seems to have a heavy Gene Colan influence except less smooth and maybe a bit more jagged like from say Joe Kubert.

earlnash, Saturday, 31 January 2015 16:40 (four years ago) link

Frank Brunner is another artist that has similarities in his style with Gene Colan, I'd think that is perhaps one reason Colan was used as one of the artists on Howard the Duck.

earlnash, Saturday, 31 January 2015 16:44 (four years ago) link

So glad that you dudes with the deep comics knowledge are around here, seriously. I've always been more focused on writers and story so it's nice to read some history/commentary on the artists.

(An aside: I'm pretty sure my first exposure to Colan was via an issue of the Archie Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles series.)

Indiana Jones and the Sphincter of the Sphinx (Old Lunch), Saturday, 31 January 2015 19:07 (four years ago) link

a quick marvel unlimited check suggests they have most if not all of the 60's for reading so i'm giving this half a shot and just cracked 1963. The writing is atrocious! The art is consistently astonishing.

the plight of y0landa (forksclovetofu), Sunday, 1 February 2015 17:53 (four years ago) link

Feel free to share non-atrocious highlights...

Chuck_Tatum, Sunday, 1 February 2015 20:33 (four years ago) link

well right off the bat, did Lee get confused as to how many skrulls were left on earth? Three turn into cows, the other is apparently free to join the escaping armada?
And the grey/green hulk shift appears to be an accident of coloring, yes?

the plight of y0landa (forksclovetofu), Sunday, 1 February 2015 20:41 (four years ago) link

the early peter parker-looking mutant story in Tales to Astonish is the secret start of the X-Men isn't it?

the plight of y0landa (forksclovetofu), Sunday, 1 February 2015 20:41 (four years ago) link

Both Lee and Kirby had notoriously poor memories (which of course caused all sorts of grief later), and as production at Marvel cranked up, editorial resources were even more thinly stretched, so that there was nobody paying strict attention to the lore of the Marvel Universe until Roy Thomas turned up. A friend of mine owns an original Kirby Thor page where Jane Foster is described as 'Thor's Gal' in Jack's margin notes. Lee and Kirby were old pros enjoying a surprising second act; they weren't sweating the details, they were just riding the wave. The Fantastic Four between abt issues 25-80 is still, imho, pretty near-perfect superhero comics. Now most of that is Jack's doing, obviously, but I think Stan contributed something, too - not to mention Joe Sinnott, who really gave the comic a very sleek finish, with no details cheated on.

sʌxihɔːl (Ward Fowler), Monday, 2 February 2015 14:49 (four years ago) link

I've been surprised by how long some of the '60s stories lasted (I think there was a stretch of Thor that sustained an ongoing narrative for about a year and a half). Most of them are total shaggy dog stories that end up miles away from where they started, but still. I expected "one and done" to be more of the norm but that largely tapers off in the early '60s. Although I understand that it does become more the norm in the late '60s/early '70s?

Indiana Jones and the Sphincter of the Sphinx (Old Lunch), Monday, 2 February 2015 15:00 (four years ago) link

There was definitely a period in the late 60s/early 70s where Marvel swore off continued stories, but they soon gave up on that.

sʌxihɔːl (Ward Fowler), Monday, 2 February 2015 15:10 (four years ago) link

a lot of the 60s Thor run is overlapping story arcs - in the middle of one three-issue story they'll introduce the elements that lead into the next three-issue arc *rinse and repeat*. this gets messed up towards the end of the Kirby run, the last 6 months or so there is clearly some editorial meddling/fighting over the direction of the book

Οὖτις, Monday, 2 February 2015 20:02 (four years ago) link

also Ward mentioned him already but I wanted to give some more love to Chic Stone as a Kirby inker, some really nice looking issues got turned out under that combo

Οὖτις, Monday, 2 February 2015 21:09 (four years ago) link

i totally get that it's not a good look to be all "WHY AIN'T THIS FUNNYBOOK CONTINUITY RIGHT IN 1962, I DEMAND CLARITY" but they're just barely trying to keep the train on the tracks for much of this year.
in any case, these are an easier read than i remember. reading on a pad is fun!

the plight of y0landa (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 3 February 2015 06:18 (four years ago) link

continuity is for chumps

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 3 February 2015 17:02 (four years ago) link

hmm, i'm tempted to do the same. there a good reading guide for that era through MU?

Nhex, Tuesday, 3 February 2015 17:09 (four years ago) link

Quick question: is Masterworks dead? I've been steadily buying and enjoying the trade paperbacks. What am I supposed to do? I'm running out! Help!

Allen (etaeoe), Tuesday, 3 February 2015 17:10 (four years ago) link

I don't need continuity, but when continuity is an explicit goal, I appreciate when it's well-maintained. I get the logistical challenges involved (particularly over the course of several decades) and I'm not particularly pedantic about it, but if you're telling a story, I'm kind of a stickler for the basics of storytelling mechanics. Which implies at least a degree of consistency.

Not that this applies to early silver age Marvel. AFAICT, these guys were just beginning to move away from a world of one-off stories (or, at best, random snapshots of the lives of ongoing characters) so I'm forgiving of their narrative foibles.

Venom Spritz (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 3 February 2015 17:13 (four years ago) link

Nhex, I posted this link a few posts up.

And on the off-chance that anyone here wasn't already aware of it, the Unofficial Handbook of Marvel Comics Creators is a godsend of an online resource. Prepare to lose some productive hours.

Venom Spritz (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 3 February 2015 17:16 (four years ago) link

thanks OL

Nhex, Tuesday, 3 February 2015 17:36 (four years ago) link

Masterworks are still coming out sporadically

jamiesummerz, Wednesday, 4 February 2015 09:32 (four years ago) link

Ward- Do you consider the 60s Marvel artists even better than early 50s EC? I think Kirby and Ditko are more visionary than the EC guys, but I think EC stable is better because the sheer number of brilliant artists they had, no substandard guys. Even the not-so-great brief guest artists were pretty solid.
Too many Marvel comics from the 60s look a bit shoddy. I'm a big fan of Bill Everett (or at least certain eras of him) but I don't think his work for Dr Strange, Hulk, Daredevil or various other things were very good. I think it looks like he's been pressured to modernise and it looks very uncomfortable.

Old mainstream comics are a source of endless bittersweet frustration to me. A lot of them are very important to me and I like those artists better than any other era of comics yet I feel the comics are like piles of crap with dazzling gems embedded in them.
I really wish the creators could do it all over again with the hindsight we have today and condense all the good things into a smaller and better collection of books. But it's difficult to imagine how they'd do it.
Anthology comics like Tales From The Crypt, Amazing Adult Fantasy, Creepy, Ghostly Tales and Twisted Tales are a real passion of mine but it's hard to imagine them being done to any really satisfying level. Coming up with that many good short stories seems impossible. It's no wonder they stole and recycled so many ideas.

I love the Essential/Showcase format so much that it's a real pain I can't fully enjoy anything on offer in them. Flipping through Dr Strange is great though.

Part of me wishes all these artists had became fine artists instead. A disreputable bunch of fantasy artists.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 4 February 2015 18:48 (four years ago) link

moments of genius amidst the shoddy/cliched/nonsensical stuff is part of the appeal for me, I think

soref, Wednesday, 4 February 2015 19:20 (four years ago) link

I'm warming more to the stories as i read them in bulk

the plight of y0landa (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 4 February 2015 19:28 (four years ago) link

yet I feel the comics are like piles of crap with dazzling gems embedded in them

this is every era!

Nhex, Wednesday, 4 February 2015 19:39 (four years ago) link

This reminds me of reading old Donald Duck comics. Carl Barks on ten pages, then pure crap the rest of the way.

Frederik B, Wednesday, 4 February 2015 19:44 (four years ago) link

moments of genius amidst the shoddy/cliched/nonsensical stuff is part of the appeal for me, I think

― soref, Wednesday, 4 February 2015



But how? I can see how it might seem funny to read dialogue like that for a few minutes but reading hundreds of comics like that is like trying to eat bricks.

And it's not just a few elements, it's everything.

Have you ever seen something that was completely amazing and then said "I wish this had worse writing with insanely excessive pointless repetition, more sloppy/rushed looking visuals, worse designs, mistakes and recycling of good things that cheapens the first time they were done"?

Nhex- I think most of the better modern comics have less heaps of flaws than my favourite comics of 50s to mid80s.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 4 February 2015 20:09 (four years ago) link

Have you ever seen something that was completely amazing and then said "I wish this had worse writing with insanely excessive pointless repetition, more sloppy/rushed looking visuals, worse designs, mistakes and recycling of good things that cheapens the first time they were done"?

I'm a Doctor Who fan, so...

"Go pet your dog" is the name of my dog (DJP), Wednesday, 4 February 2015 20:11 (four years ago) link

Haha. I haven't seen much Doctor Who but what I liked some of the Pertwee era.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 4 February 2015 20:18 (four years ago) link

Nhex- I think most of the better modern comics have less heaps of flaws than my favourite comics of 50s to mid80s.
I could never get down with that sentiment. I mean, just the technology advances in production and printing alone have made comics a more consistently high quality product, actual taste notwithstanding

Nhex, Thursday, 5 February 2015 03:15 (four years ago) link

also lol DJP

Nhex, Thursday, 5 February 2015 03:15 (four years ago) link

In modern comics I rarely find that sort of density that old comics are plagued with or The need they had to tell you everything a few times. That's one great thing about Japan, even their old comics breeze along by comparison.

I mean, what sort of problems do the better comics have today? Some of the colouring is really bad but I can't think of much else.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 5 February 2015 03:43 (four years ago) link

wait. i'm sorry, i totally misread you, i thought you were saying the opposite thing

Nhex, Thursday, 5 February 2015 04:09 (four years ago) link

Ward- Do you consider the 60s Marvel artists even better than early 50s EC?

I don't know about 'better'. As a comic strip artist (rather than illustrator) Kirby could do things Al Williamson couldn't (ie tell a dynamic and personally invested story), but it would be difficult to argue against the sheer craft of so many of the EC artists in their prime, and Marvel never really offered the same kind of freedom to experiment with form that people like Krigstein, Kurtzman or Craig enjoyed at EC (it also seems really obvious that the way that Marvel addressed its readership through letter columns and so on owed a great deal to the way that Gaines/Feldstein spoke to, and engaged with, 'EC Fan-Addicts'). In both Marvel and EC's case, it makes much more sense to read their comics on an installment basis, rather than in huge chunks, when the limitations of formula and genre start to become very apparent.

no substandard guys

Never been much of a Jack Kamen fan; the Harrison/Wood collaborations are horrible; Severin inked by Elder is not playing to either of their strengths; Feldstein's stiffly ugly artwork is the v definition of an acquired taste. There's plenty of dross in every major EC title if you dig deep enough, tho' by about '53 all of their major artists are absolutely ON FIRE.

moments of genius amidst the shoddy/cliched/nonsensical stuff is part of the appeal for me, I think

Agree w/ this. It seems like a real fool's errand - or a recipe for perpetual disappointment - to expect a constant stream of 'masterpieces' from such a labour intensive and economically marginalised cultural form as the monthly American colour comic book. The dross illuminates the good stuff, if only by negative example.

the technology advances in production and printing alone have made comics a more consistently high quality product

Some of the 'modern' computer colouring, illustration and lettering tools used by current comic book artists look ineffably ugly and vulgar to my old school eyes, so I don't necessarily think technological improvement equates to a 'quality' product (actual 60s Marvel comics, printed from the original artwork, usually seem far more beautiful and elegant than the whizzbang stuff of today, imho). Obviously modern, streamlined storytelling techniques are a response to the fact that these days, comic book readers have so many other distractions and pleasures to choose from, so there simply isn't time for the huge amount of (over)writing that ppl like Stan and Roy Thomas could indulge in. Again, I don't think this means that the caption-less, thought balloon-less, read-it-in-five-minutes comic book is automatically superior, or inferior.

sʌxihɔːl (Ward Fowler), Thursday, 5 February 2015 10:45 (four years ago) link

great post, ward!

#Research (stevie), Thursday, 5 February 2015 10:54 (four years ago) link

Severin inked by Elder is not playing to either of their strengths

but it's so cuuuurious! such a weird blend of their two styles - not complementary, not an improvement, but a really interesting combination. like P Craig Russell on Mignola.

Some of the 'modern' computer colouring, illustration and lettering tools used by current comic book artists look ineffably ugly and vulgar to my old school eyes

I find 92% of '60s Marvel str8 unreadable but it's SO much easier on the eye to flip through, or look at images from, than 98% of modern assembly-line comics

oochie wally (clean version) (sic), Thursday, 5 February 2015 12:17 (four years ago) link

Ward otm

Οὖτις, Thursday, 5 February 2015 14:28 (four years ago) link

I like Kamen a lot, some of his rendering ability is stunning. His work for the picto fiction line is really impressive.
Remember all those jokes about Kamen being "too nice?", get a load of this
http://www.comics.org/issue/353075/cover/4/

I love Feldstein. His work always looks very alive and awake to me.

It really doesn't help that there's so much hype and worship around EC and silver age Marvel. The way reprints are often priced and presented reinforces that. There are still lots of seemingly otherwise sane adults who will freak out in denial if you say to them that these comics are badly written (I think Feldstein writes fine but there's just too way way way much of it). As a teenager reading all those TwoMorrows magazines, I felt like a blasphemer when I was admitting the flaws of the classics.

I really like the idea of reading Kirby era Fantastic Four but I just can't and that's pretty damming that lots of people feel this way. But I should say there are lots of golden and silver age comics that read just great and have very economical writing. Even some Stan Lee comics from the 50s are relatively restrained. I think Eisner's Spirit reads well. Kids comics should read like that.
It's just incredibly unfortunate that two of the best sets of old American comics are written the way they are.

In the Masterworks reprints I remember Mike Allred going along with all the hype, so when Steve Bissette written his alarmingly frank introduction for Amazing Fantasy Omnibus, I was amazed Marvel printed it.

As much as I think it's true that people underestimated these comics, I think it's very important to see that the snobby public was half right that these comics are trash.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 5 February 2015 15:07 (four years ago) link

Heinlein's Law applies but i don't see why you can't also apply Oscar's Law.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxgWHzMvXOY

the plight of y0landa (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 5 February 2015 15:14 (four years ago) link

Marvel never really offered the same kind of freedom to experiment with form that people like Krigstein, Kurtzman or Craig enjoyed at EC

This is interesting because a lot of people consider EC too rigid with their overall form but they certainly allowed everyone their own drawing style. Krigstein had to fight to get his way with the panel arrangements at EC but he went nuts with his work for other publishers.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 5 February 2015 15:15 (four years ago) link

Forks, can you tell me the title of that video because my kindle doesn't show embedded videos.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 5 February 2015 15:16 (four years ago) link

Oscar the Grouch's "I Love Trash"

the plight of y0landa (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 5 February 2015 15:21 (four years ago) link

To be honest, I love a lot of the overwritten Stan Lee stuff. That's what I come for. To want to erase that or edit it out seems like a fool's errand along the lines of colourising old movies or, you know, the Star Wars special editions. These comics are what they are, they're a point in the evolution of the form, and trying to change them so they read better to current generations seems crazy wrong to me. If you don't like them then read modern comics that are more to your tastes (and which, in forty years, will doubtless seem as dated and unreadable as you feel Silver Age marvels are). You're not wrong or right to have issues with this era of comics, but they are what they are.

#Research (stevie), Thursday, 5 February 2015 15:28 (four years ago) link

I would never want them edited or changed by anyone.
Feldstein at least seemed to understand he'd overdone it and made them less readable.
Finding Stan Lee's cheer and goofiness charming is understandable but having blocks of text repeatedly explaining the same thing is something I don't know how anyone can defend. A lot of comics from that time never did this.

Wishing they were more economically written (like Eisner's Spirit or Joe Gill's Gorgo & Konga, Tezuka and lots of other old comics) is not remotely the same as colouring black and white movies or adding things to Star Wars.
But Marvel actually does something along those lines. Not only are they horribly recolored in a way that ruins the art (ruining the best reason to buy these comics), some are even redrawn.
http://ohdannyboy.blogspot.co.uk/2008/06/original-art-stories-marvel-masterworks.html
They are fucking with their own comics in a way I think is vile.

Some earlier reprints removed the dotted eyes from Spiderman when he sees Uncle Ben's killer because apparently it looked too goofy for such an important moment.
Some Tomb Of Dracula reprints (such as the Essential collections) covered up female nipples that were in the originals.
http://groovyageofhorror.blogspot.co.uk/2006/09/censored-essentials.html?zx=b452862fc142c0fb

Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 5 February 2015 16:50 (four years ago) link

Re: experimentation in Marvel, Gene Colan faced resistance for his work.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 5 February 2015 16:52 (four years ago) link

And to be totally clear, in this context overwritten doesn't mean purple prose (I love HP Lovecraft and Clark Ashton Smith. I actually prefer this style to most styles), it means writing the same information again and again and again as if you're trying to beat the information into a child.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 5 February 2015 16:57 (four years ago) link

as if you're trying to beat the information into a child

uh this is what they were trying to do

Οὖτις, Thursday, 5 February 2015 17:06 (four years ago) link

I'm sure most children understood the first time. And if they didn't they'd go back and read it again. Like they'd do with any other well written comic for kids.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 5 February 2015 17:11 (four years ago) link

Chris Claremont is almost painful for me to read sometimes due to his style being that, forever. Every issue forever telling you that Storm is mistress of the elements, claustrophobic, and strong

mh, Thursday, 5 February 2015 17:14 (four years ago) link

Len Wein's Swamp Thing. "Shambling muck encrusted monstosity", I'm sure lines like that were repeated loads of times.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 5 February 2015 17:18 (four years ago) link

i caught the spider irises for the first time on this recent readthru and they are AMAZING

the plight of y0landa (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 5 February 2015 17:18 (four years ago) link

i think another thing to remember is that these comics weren't written to be masterpieces, or given the budget or timetables to become masterpieces - that they were written fast, and suffer for that low budget, hurried production process. i'm not saying that voids your issues with these comics, but they weren't being written for us to appreciate decades later - they were written to make money, and quickly.

#Research (stevie), Thursday, 5 February 2015 17:21 (four years ago) link

Given that situation, it was even less sense the way they were written. Stan Lee always praised his artists by saying they barely needed dialogue to be understood. So my theory is that he was trying to justify his presence with such an abundance of writing. Maybe he felt competitive.
Most people facing Stan Lee's schedule would have been incredibly restrained.

I wonder what they would say if they knew I was Spider-Man I wonder what they would say if they knew I was Spider-Man I wonder what they would say if they knew I was Spider-Man I wonder what they would say if they knew I was Spider-Man I wonder what they would say if they knew I was Spider-Man I wonder what they would say if they knew I was Spider-Man I wonder what they would say if they knew I was Spider-Man I wonder what they would say if they knew I was Spider-Man I wonder what they would say if they knew I was Spider-Man I wonder what they would say if they knew I was Spider-Man I wonder what they would say if they knew I was Spider-Man I wonder what they would say if they knew I was Spider-Man I wonder what they would say if they knew I was Spider-Man I wonder what they would say if they knew I was Spider-Man I wonder what they would say if they knew I was Spider-Man I wonder what they would say if they knew I was Spider-Man I wonder what they would say if they knew I was Spider-Man I wonder what they would say if they knew I was Spider-Man I wonder what they would say if they knew I was Spider-Man I wonder what they would say if they knew I was Spider-Man I wonder what they would say if they knew I was Spider-Man I wonder what they would say if they knew I was Spider-Man I wonder what they would say if they knew I was Spider-Man I wonder what they would say if they knew I was SpidaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 5 February 2015 17:28 (four years ago) link

Every issue forever telling you that Storm is mistress of the elements, claustrophobic, and strong

haha yeah I can't take this w Claremont either

Οὖτις, Thursday, 5 February 2015 17:29 (four years ago) link

"Given that situation, it was even less sense the way they were written"
Should have written "it makes even less sense"

Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 5 February 2015 17:31 (four years ago) link

the admittedly painful repetition of themes and key dialogue is easier to take if you break up the reading process and don't try to read the sheaf of pamphlets as if they were a novel.

the plight of y0landa (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 5 February 2015 17:36 (four years ago) link

One of my favorite lines to come out of this '60s Marvel readthrough: someone is confused by something ridiculous that happens in an issue of Tales To Astonish and Hank Pym's response is, "Explanations are too boring!"

Mouth-Watering Broiled Chops! (Old Lunch), Thursday, 5 February 2015 17:55 (four years ago) link

Ron Goulart is the first person I ever seen comment on this. He said it drove him nuts because it was like someone narrating a film while you watched it, describing everything on screen.
I think he was told to write more words per panel and he took too much pride in his work to go along with that nonsense.

I think EC comics were possibly worse for this "tell it 3 times" phenomenon. Told in the caption, told in the image and then told in the dialogue balloon.

Example: a panel of two men, one looks angry and threatening, the other looks afraid and is starting to back away. Caption says "The stranger looked angry and Bobby was feeling threatened and he started to back away, fearing what the stranger might do". Dialogue has Bobby saying "hey fella, simmer down, you're scaring me. What are you gonna do?".

A lot of these comics had pages filled with that. Whether you're a kid buying them as they came out or an adult fan reading them decades later who wants to read large amounts of them eventually, it's difficult to space them out so it isn't too grating.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 5 February 2015 18:01 (four years ago) link

This isn't totally relevant but some of my favourite comics dialogue is this by Basil Wolverton. I memorized it without much trouble and I read it ten years ago. It's a couple afraid of two hairy ape men, the man says to his girlfriend "Let's tear, Claire! I don't care for that nightmare pair with the rare hair!"

Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 5 February 2015 18:08 (four years ago) link

I was reading through the first collection of Remender's Uncanny Avengers (I give it a 4/10) and boy there a lot of fucking panels in it. I can't tell whether it's pastiche or deliberate. Either way the comic is not very good.

I think even the trashiest, hackiest of '60s Marvel comics have beautiful single panels or pages in them, even when the whole story together is garbage.

Marvel overwriting is weird - actually I find Claremont okay! His sentences are pretty clear and clipped even if they're bombastic/repetitive. It's the 70s era (Thomas/Wein/Gerber/Englehart/etc) I find quite hard work, except for maybe Jim Starlin.

Chuck_Tatum, Thursday, 5 February 2015 18:10 (four years ago) link

Also I grew up with Edgar P Jacobs' comics and those are fucking dull and wordy as shit, so maybe I'm not the average. (Beautiful art though.)

Chuck_Tatum, Thursday, 5 February 2015 18:13 (four years ago) link

And obvs Kieron Gillen does some magnficent panel-overwordiness in Journey into Mystery.

Chuck_Tatum, Thursday, 5 February 2015 18:15 (four years ago) link

I never have to deal with this stuff because there are virtually no Marvel/DC superhero comics I want to read but this nicely sums up bad habits of the writing in the new stuffhttp://groovyageofhorror.blogspot.com/2009/11/blackest-night-midpoint.html
The middle bit with The Flash talking.

If I was to point out some problems of modern comics I liked. I think some of Alan Moore's work has text captions too visually descriptive to be put in with comic art. Particularly that Swamp Thing issue of psychedelic sex. I liked some of the writing in that but it's awkward reading a comics page and trying to visualise all these amazing things he talks about.

The new Sandman Overture looks like it has way too much blocks of text in with so much complex imagery. If they made it an illustrated prose book, I think I might have read it.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 5 February 2015 18:47 (four years ago) link

http://groovyageofhorror.blogspot.com/2009/11/blackest-night-midpoint.html

Corrected link

Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 5 February 2015 18:49 (four years ago) link

Well, TBF, the existence of Blackest Night nicely sums up bad modern-era mainstream comics.

Mouth-Watering Broiled Chops! (Old Lunch), Thursday, 5 February 2015 18:49 (four years ago) link

Immediately after spending hundreds of dollars on that mess was roughly the point I jumped off the DC bus.

Mouth-Watering Broiled Chops! (Old Lunch), Thursday, 5 February 2015 18:50 (four years ago) link

geoff johns is SO BAD, history is not gonna be kind to him

the plight of y0landa (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 5 February 2015 19:00 (four years ago) link

Definitely a good touchstone there. He also links to the reintroduction of Black Hand in Green Lantern, which had some great artwork and storytelling, but at the same time was just so gratuitously grim. The pinnacle being that full-pager of him blowing his brains out with the laser - it's an incredibly arresting image, but just too much.

Nhex, Thursday, 5 February 2015 19:05 (four years ago) link

To be more positive, my favourite Marvel thing is mostly Dr Strange. I like lots of their anthology comics and it's easy to forget they published stuff like Powerhouse Pepper but the most I ever enjoyed a Marvel comic is when Baron Mordo chases Dr Strange across the world. I love that part where he divides into multiple identical versions of himself to mislead and confuse his enemies.

Gene Golan's Dr Strange work is amazing to flip through because it always looks like amazing and important things are happening.

http://comicartfans.com/galleryroom.asp?gsub=14639

I still like a lot of things about Ditko's Spiderman, for me the fashions and settings are important so it's hard for a modernized version to be as compelling. Some of Everett's Sub-Mariner looks really great.
I think Marvel's big supernatural and cosmic space/multi-dimensional stuff has always been more compellingly visualized than DC. Thanks to a relative few artists for inventing that more operatic and psychedelic approach.

For a very modern superhero approach I think Claudio Castellini's Silver Surfer is pretty impressive.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 5 February 2015 19:21 (four years ago) link

Gay, I'm 're-using too many words.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 5 February 2015 19:23 (four years ago) link

Sorry, WHAT THE FUCK is kindle doing, all these mistakes then making me sound like a homophobe.

Some have defended G Johns because apparently he takes his job very seriously as a way to impart his lessons about life. They say he really thinks of ways to make his readers lead better lives.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 5 February 2015 19:31 (four years ago) link

Maybe somebody hacked my kindle and put in all these ridiculous corrections that make no sense.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 5 February 2015 19:33 (four years ago) link

Geoff Johns thinks of ways to make me lead a better life by not giving me any reasons to read his funnybooks

the plight of y0landa (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 5 February 2015 19:35 (four years ago) link

but it's so cuuuurious! such a weird blend of their two styles - not complementary, not an improvement, but a really interesting combination. like P Craig Russell on Mignola.

Nicely put! But I'm not sure the world needs as much of the Sev/Eld stuff as we ended up with. The issues of Rom pencilled by Ditko and inked by PCR are also a tasty treat.

Re: experimentation in Marvel, Gene Colan faced resistance for his work.

Wasn't this only really toward the end of Colan's tenure at Marvel, when he fell foul of some Jim Shooter bullshit about 'proper' comics storytelling?

The wordiness on 60s/70s Marvel Comics is obv a by-product of the 'Marvel Method', where the pages are drawn first and then dialogued/captioned after (sorry if explaining that is like explaining Storm's powers every issue - there are always new readers!) And yeah RAG, the writer/editor types like Lee, Thomas, Wein, Wolfman etc def looked upon it as their chance to wrest some of the storytelling control back from the artists - if the lazy/bloody-minded/more talented penciller hadn't drawn what had been plotted/expected, then that could be 'corrected' by a mass of words.

Excessive writing - in tone and quantity - was also a gesture towards the literary. Lee and Kirby had experienced first hand the 1950s anti-comics moral panic, so Lee's garrulousness could be presented as an attempt to broaden the vocabularies of his young readers, and position the superhero comics closer to the respectable literary novel. Again, the typeset (Kurtzman's war comics were hand-lettered) ECs strips written/edited by Gaines/Feldman were very 'aspirational' in terms of cultural reach, and that very much included their own mad idea of what constituted fine writing, expressed in pulp purple plastered all over the page.

And writing lots of words was seen as a benevolent gesture to the reader - it made the comic book a denser object, a 'bigger' read. These days, I don't think we're obliged to read every last 'face front true believers'.

sʌxihɔːl (Ward Fowler), Thursday, 5 February 2015 19:40 (four years ago) link

It could have been just Shooter against Gene Colan but I've heard people like John Romita Sr say that Stan Lee gave a lot of artists a hard time. Stan didn't like Gil Kane's art and many artists were pressured to look more like Kirby and Romita. Ditko was left alone obviously, I think Stan understood his work.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 5 February 2015 19:52 (four years ago) link

doubt Stan understood much of anything, Ditko likely less malleable than the others

Οὖτις, Thursday, 5 February 2015 20:30 (four years ago) link

http://charm-of-charlton.de/
Elsewhere I talked about Gaines stealing horror concepts from someone else but I don't think I ever remembered the link but here it is. Sheldon Moldoff makes a pretty convincing case that he was done wrong but I don't think anyone can claim to have invented horror comic anthologies that late.
The first horror comic anthology was a few years earlier and there were others before EC started.
http://www.comics.org/issue/215631/cover/4/

Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 5 February 2015 21:05 (four years ago) link

Also I grew up with Edgar P Jacobs' comics and those are fucking dull and wordy as shit, so maybe I'm not the average. (Beautiful art though.)

I was gonna mention Jacobs' Blake & Mortimer as one of the worst example of the "words telling you the exact same thing as pictures" phemomenon Robert mentioned. Like, you could literally remove all the third-person narration boxes (which appear in abundance) from those comics, and the plot would still be as easy to follow. I find this particularly weird given that, before Blake & Mortimer, Jacobs worked for a long time as Herge's assistant in Tintin, which a complete opposite to B&M: Herge (correctly) trusted that the visual storytelling was enough, so Tintin comics have pretty much no narration boxes at all.

Tuomas, Thursday, 5 February 2015 22:13 (four years ago) link

To want to erase that or edit it out seems like a fool's errand along the lines of colourising old movies or, you know, the Star Wars special editions. These comics are what they are, they're a point in the evolution of the form, and trying to change them so they read better to current generations seems crazy wrong to me.

Robert touched on this but it can't be reiterated enough that the hideous recolouring (and NOT recolouring for white paper!) makes basically every Marvel reprint from the '50s to the '80s read worse to current generations, or other people with eyes

oochie wally (clean version) (sic), Thursday, 5 February 2015 23:49 (four years ago) link

except for Essentials I guess, which you must also be opposed to?

oochie wally (clean version) (sic), Thursday, 5 February 2015 23:50 (four years ago) link

aw I really like my Thor Masterworks - I have a few original issues too but idk if I would say they look any better, faded as they are

I don't like Essentials, fuck b&w reprints of color material

Οὖτις, Friday, 6 February 2015 00:10 (four years ago) link

reprints of 80s era stuff do look weird to me tho

Οὖτις, Friday, 6 February 2015 00:11 (four years ago) link

Ditko and Gene Colan look superior in black and white. Way more atmospheric. I think Colan prefers his work not being coloured.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, 6 February 2015 00:38 (four years ago) link

I think Eisner seen the Masterworks and DC Archives and made sure Spirit Archives didn't look like those. Respect.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, 6 February 2015 00:41 (four years ago) link

Is there a better version of the Nick Fury/SHIELD material that's been reprinted other than the TPB? Never got confirmation the Masterworks one is any different, but the trade has the worst coloring ever

mh, Friday, 6 February 2015 01:08 (four years ago) link

Well, at least bad enough that Steranko cringed for a while if someone showed it to him

mh, Friday, 6 February 2015 01:08 (four years ago) link

Poor Steranko. When talking about the new colouring of Red Sonja, Frank Thorne said "They raped my Sonja".

Surely everyone agrees that Alex Toth and Mort Meskin look better in black and white?

I think 50s horror comics lose something when they're just black and white but I won't complain; I think Fantagraphics is doing a great job with their EC reprints. The recent EC Archives really blundered by changing the color to a more literal colouring. The originals had something similar to the impressionistic colourful lighting of Bava and Argento films.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, 6 February 2015 01:11 (four years ago) link

Some people even get torrents of scans from the original comics to avoid bad recoloring jobs. You hear that, big comic companies? Your recolouring is so bad it's creating piracy.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, 6 February 2015 01:18 (four years ago) link

I gave away that nick fury tpb. Just unreadable.

Οὖτις, Friday, 6 February 2015 01:25 (four years ago) link

There's a new trade of all the Steranko SHIELD material that came out sometime last year. I haven't seen it so I can't speak for the coloring.

Brodozer Coke Buffet (Old Lunch), Friday, 6 February 2015 02:30 (four years ago) link

I'd be surprised if they changed their reproduction methods. Don't know why a lot of the bigger publishers are often reluctant to use the type of cleaned up scans everyone else sensibly uses.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, 6 February 2015 03:02 (four years ago) link

I had no idea about artists reworking those TPB reprints - that is complete horseshit.
Actually I do feel the same way about the B&W reprint volumes. Yes, sometimes they look better, but it always bothers me that it looks completely different as it did on publication.

Nhex, Friday, 6 February 2015 03:12 (four years ago) link

again, so do the colour ones

oochie wally (clean version) (sic), Friday, 6 February 2015 04:09 (four years ago) link

i don't disagree

Nhex, Friday, 6 February 2015 06:36 (four years ago) link

also

Some Tomb Of Dracula reprints (such as the Essential collections) covered up female nipples that were in the originals.
http://groovyageofhorror.blogspot.co.uk/2006/09/censored-essentials.html?zx=b452862fc142c0fb
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Nhex, Friday, 6 February 2015 06:41 (four years ago) link

i am indeed shocked that mainstream comics had *gasp* nipples! in them

Nhex, Friday, 6 February 2015 06:47 (four years ago) link

The censored material first appeared in the black and white Tomb of Dracula magazine, which bypassed Comics Code Authority prohibitions against vampire nipples.

I agree that modern recolouring and 'restoring' of vintage material is on the whole very unsatisfactory - would much rather see reprints shot directly from clean copies of the original comics, as in The Smithsonian Book of Comic Books, or Spiegelman's children's comics anthology. Those huge original art repro books are very nice too, if you can afford them.

Part of the problem is that at the time, Marvel failed to keep decent film of the original artwork (which is of course now scattered far and wide, if it even still exists). DC, by contrast, have much better negatives of their old comics - the reproduction on their black and white reprint Showcase books is far superior to the repro in the Marvel Esssentials, by and large.

sʌxihɔːl (Ward Fowler), Friday, 6 February 2015 08:00 (four years ago) link

Robert touched on this but it can't be reiterated enough that the hideous recolouring (and NOT recolouring for white paper!) makes basically every Marvel reprint from the '50s to the '80s read worse to current generations, or other people with eyes

― oochie wally (clean version) (sic), Thursday, February 5, 2015 11:49 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

except for Essentials I guess, which you must also be opposed to?

― oochie wally (clean version) (sic), Thursday, February 5, 2015 11:50 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

to be honest i thought we were discussing narrative and dialogue. i'm not so bothered about colouring, and while i'd much rather the Essentials volumes to be in colour, if I have to lose that to gain a phone-book's worth of comics at a small price I'm fine with that.

#Research (stevie), Friday, 6 February 2015 09:32 (four years ago) link

Anyone know if Marvel's Atlas era anthologies will ever go into public domain if they aren't already? Other publishers have reprinted bits of that work but is there some sort of limit on it?

Because Marvel are probably never going to do good reprints of them.
http://ditkocultist.com/2014/01/30/original-art-tales-to-astonish-13-marvel-1960/

Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, 6 February 2015 13:04 (four years ago) link

Don't think there's much here that hasn't be said before - and the text seems to be very verbatim - but still some nuggets of interest in John Romita's deposition to the Marvel/Kirby Family lawsuit:

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/03/09/the-john-romita-deposition-for-the-kirby-family-v-marvel-lawsuit/

Thought this bit was particularly interesting:

Q: So what would Stan do with notes or the dialogue in the margins?

JOHN ROMITA: I used to write notes that I thought were clever. I’d say “maybe he should say ‘what’s up’,” you know, something like that.

They sounded clever to me while I was doing the drawing. 3 in the morning everything sounds clever. He invariably would not use them, and I asked him once “why wouldn’t you use — why wouldn’t you let him” — he said something similar. He said, “because I can’t speak in somebody else’s vernacular.” He says, “when I am writing my characters, I am writing in Peter Parker’s personality and Aunt May’s personality and I write the captions in my personality. If I start putting your personality in there, I am going to confuse the reader.” So he used to -he told me — he invariably did not use anything that was in the margins that was cleverly suggested by the artists, because he said he did not want to stray from his normal approach. He had a dialogue going with the reader. Saying “dear reader, this is your editor speaking right now.” He used to do that. It used to drive me crazy. I used to tell him “you are puncturing the illusion.” It’s like opening a door in the theater and letting the sunlight in and everybody realizes they are watching a movie now. I said “you are ruining” — he said, “it doesn’t matter. I am talking to my readers.”

sʌxihɔːl (Ward Fowler), Friday, 6 February 2015 18:08 (four years ago) link

I'd buy the Miller Daredevils as b&w Essentials if they existed, as the recolouring in the collected versions is atrocious.

Chuck_Tatum, Saturday, 7 February 2015 00:43 (four years ago) link

agreed; i'm perfectly happy with the floppies

the plight of y0landa (forksclovetofu), Saturday, 7 February 2015 01:55 (four years ago) link

Something that often looks really brilliant: black and white with newly added grey tones.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Saturday, 7 February 2015 15:14 (four years ago) link

i wonder how the coloring in those TPBs is compared to the stuff on Marvel Unlimited. Do they put the redone stuff up on there?

Nhex, Sunday, 8 February 2015 04:15 (four years ago) link

Just got to Neal Adams on X-Men. One of the best draftsmen thus far but also one of the absolute worst storytellers. A series of pin-ups do not a coherent story make bud, bud.

Brodozer Coke Buffet (Old Lunch), Sunday, 8 February 2015 08:01 (four years ago) link

Oh, phone. Please suck a fuck.

Brodozer Coke Buffet (Old Lunch), Sunday, 8 February 2015 08:02 (four years ago) link

i wonder how the coloring in those TPBs is compared to the stuff on Marvel Unlimited. Do they put the redone stuff up on there?

Yeah, the covers are the same, but the contents are recoloured (for Daredevil at least). It's annoying.

Chuck_Tatum, Sunday, 8 February 2015 19:20 (four years ago) link

I can't remember, are there any members of the Council of Reeds left from Hickman's FF run, or did they all get killed or merged into a giant green head

mh, Tuesday, 10 February 2015 19:09 (four years ago) link

am I the only one who is inordinately excited about the idea behind A-Force

"Go pet your dog" is the name of my dog (DJP), Tuesday, 10 February 2015 19:17 (four years ago) link

looks cool!

I'm wondering how Al Ewing's Mighty Avengers will flush out

mh, Tuesday, 10 February 2015 19:28 (four years ago) link

am I the only one who is inordinately excited about the idea behind A-Force

plz tell me this is a reboot of Atari Force

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 10 February 2015 19:32 (four years ago) link

oh wait that was a DC property wasn't it :(

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 10 February 2015 19:32 (four years ago) link

"She's actually a cosmological event -- a pocket universe that gained self-consciousness during the radical upheaval of 'Secret Wars.'" Inspired by Q from "Star Trek: The Next Generation," Singularity is "learning about the human race as an outsider," according to Wilson.

lol rmde

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 10 February 2015 20:34 (four years ago) link

"that pocket universe has breasts!"

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 10 February 2015 20:34 (four years ago) link

this is like the fourth "universe personified" Marvel has had!

mh, Tuesday, 10 February 2015 20:35 (four years ago) link

how is that (adjectiveless) all-female X-Men book doing?

Nhex, Tuesday, 10 February 2015 20:46 (four years ago) link

this is like the fourth "universe personified" Marvel has had!

Yeah I mean Captain Universe is currently an Avenger, this is nothing new.

how is that (adjectiveless) all-female X-Men book doing?

It's a top 100 book but afaict sales have been in a steady decline over the past year.

"Go pet your dog" is the name of my dog (DJP), Tuesday, 10 February 2015 21:53 (four years ago) link

not to mention the Beyonder, who... something something secret wars

mh, Tuesday, 10 February 2015 21:54 (four years ago) link

ftr I'm not as eye-rolly at things like Eternity or Captain Universe as I am at the idea that a universe has a gender

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 10 February 2015 21:56 (four years ago) link

lady pocket universe's drive like THIS

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 10 February 2015 21:57 (four years ago) link

gods having genders is stupid, sure

mh, Tuesday, 10 February 2015 22:00 (four years ago) link

um, today's Spider-Man comic has Peter Porker saying "Face it pal, you just got hamboozled!"

lol

mh, Wednesday, 11 February 2015 15:25 (four years ago) link

am I the only one who is inordinately excited about the idea behind A-Force

plz tell me this is a reboot of Atari Force

― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 10 February 2015 19:32 (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

oh wait that was a DC property wasn't it :(

― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 10 February 2015 19:32 (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Think Atari Force was actually owned by Atari, and that's why those comics have never been reprinted (which is a shame - beautiful Garcia Lopez a/work on those early issues).

sʌxihɔːl (Ward Fowler), Wednesday, 11 February 2015 15:28 (four years ago) link

well, funny thing: https://archive.org/details/atariforcecomics#collection-title

the plight of y0landa (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 11 February 2015 15:30 (four years ago) link

shame about the marvel micronauts series for the same reason, and that's a series that was very dear to my heart. It had its longeurs but there were several stretches where mantlo caught fire (not just the initial run with M Golden).

a drug by the name of WORLD WITHOUT END (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 11 February 2015 15:54 (four years ago) link

Yeah, it's unfortunate that, between that and ROM, Mantlo cornered the market on popular late-'70s/early-'80s Marvel titles that will likely never be reprinted.

Brodozer Coke Buffet (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 11 February 2015 16:08 (four years ago) link

Well, him and Moench, I guess.

Brodozer Coke Buffet (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 11 February 2015 16:10 (four years ago) link

re: Moench are you referring to Kung Fu...? I follow Diversions of the Groovy Kind religiously and he's always putting up issues of that, and given that he p much sticks to stuff that's never reprinted I was wondering what the deal was there.

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 11 February 2015 16:38 (four years ago) link

It's because Fu Manchu is still somehow under copyright.

a drug by the name of WORLD WITHOUT END (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 11 February 2015 16:55 (four years ago) link

jeez, is that why they never reprinted Master of Kung Fu? Damn.

Nhex, Wednesday, 11 February 2015 17:07 (four years ago) link

you'd think the copyright holder would be falling all over themselves to shed that most racist invention of the pulp era. But yeah. (I'm an HPL and REH fan despite their noxious facets, but I don't ever expect to reread Sax Rohmer).

a drug by the name of WORLD WITHOUT END (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 11 February 2015 17:18 (four years ago) link

Rohmer's Fu Manchu supporting characters Nayland Smith and Petrie also turn up in MOKF, tho I imagine their value as 'properties' are negligible.

sʌxihɔːl (Ward Fowler), Wednesday, 11 February 2015 18:50 (four years ago) link

There's another 60s Marvel repeated annoyance!

"Hey, look at Harry Osborn's Fu Manchu moustache" "You like my Fu Manchu moustache Peter?"

Don't forget Mary Jane's outtasight "ginchy" new haircut.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 11 February 2015 19:05 (four years ago) link

bring back "ginchy"

mh, Wednesday, 11 February 2015 19:06 (four years ago) link

I know the early Ultimate Spiderman comics had lots of nu-metal t-shirts and modern teenage speak but did any of those comics have stuff like "lol, random"?

Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 11 February 2015 19:17 (four years ago) link

this is just a thought but maybe you would enjoy reading comics from different eras more if you didn't come across as explicitly looking for things in them to complain about

"Go pet your dog" is the name of my dog (DJP), Wednesday, 11 February 2015 19:20 (four years ago) link

To be fair, Harry's mustache and Mary Jane's new do are probably the biggest '60s Marvel tonsorial mistakes I've seen outside of Doc Ock's perennial bowl cut.

Brodozer Coke Buffet (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 11 February 2015 19:25 (four years ago) link

Harry's mustache and Mary Jane's new do

don't recall these - pics?

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 11 February 2015 19:29 (four years ago) link

I read these comics mostly because those eras are my favourite in terms of American comic artists. Now I just tend to look at them instead of reading.

And I find some of the dialogue funny. There's a Spiderman annual with bonus page of Aunt talking hip and groovy and then Stan Lee actually apologizes for it in a caption below.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 11 February 2015 19:30 (four years ago) link

Harry's mustache has it's own marvel wiki page:

http://marvel.wikia.com/Harry_Osborn's_Fu_Manchu

soref, Wednesday, 11 February 2015 19:33 (four years ago) link

nice.

Nhex, Wednesday, 11 February 2015 19:36 (four years ago) link

lol

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 11 February 2015 19:38 (four years ago) link

Extra points to anyone who can get a scan of Aunt May talking hip. I almost certain it's a backup in a Romita drawn annual.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 11 February 2015 19:45 (four years ago) link

When I watched the first season of SNL, I was ultimately more fascinated with the shots of the audience than anything else. Talk about a time capsule of godawful hair and style choices. So given the way things were headed by the late '60s, I really look forward to seeing Marvel's depictions of 1975.

Vittles, Morsels, and Assorted Num-Nums (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 11 February 2015 19:48 (four years ago) link

Peter Parker's ugly jacket with tassels is the only thing that stuck out to me. I think his sideburns got longer too but it wasn't a bad look.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 11 February 2015 19:50 (four years ago) link

God DAMN but the influence on xaime is writ large there

a drug by the name of WORLD WITHOUT END (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 11 February 2015 22:00 (four years ago) link

it really is

bizarro gazzara, Wednesday, 11 February 2015 22:01 (four years ago) link

Woody Allen Lives

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 11 February 2015 22:04 (four years ago) link

Well done Bizarro Gazzara. Funny that even Fu Manchu is there.

I always thought Gilbert was the most Romita inspired one.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 12 February 2015 00:15 (four years ago) link

was wondering - is this Fu Manchu copyright thing also the reason the character is never referenced by name in the initial League of Extraordinary Gentlemen storyline?

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 18 February 2015 17:25 (four years ago) link

yeah, it is

bizarro gazzara, Wednesday, 18 February 2015 17:45 (four years ago) link

someone should do an intentional meta thing about the strange numinous menace of the licensed-character-who-cannot-be-named. (someone probably has, probably moore even)

a drug by the name of WORLD WITHOUT END (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 18 February 2015 18:35 (four years ago) link

Should just call him Nu Manchu and get on with it.

EZ Snappin, Wednesday, 18 February 2015 18:44 (four years ago) link

Marvel/Agents of Atlas sort of did that with Yellow Claw

Nhex, Wednesday, 18 February 2015 18:46 (four years ago) link

Yellow Claw has been around since the golden age.

Steak Sauce On My Cummerbund (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 18 February 2015 19:02 (four years ago) link

call him "Craig"

"Go pet your dog" is the name of my dog (DJP), Wednesday, 18 February 2015 19:04 (four years ago) link

The other Asian claw still gets used but he looks so monstrous that it probably doesn't register as racial caricature to most people.

I've got kind of a soft spot for characters like Fu Manchu, I always thought they were really cool but preferably the ones that don't caricature or portray Asians in general as sinister (like the crap old Karloff version of Fu Manchu).
There's quite a few of these characters in videogames and Hong Kong martial arts films but I can't presume they aren't racist because sometimes they have racial typecasting that isn't obvious to western viewers, so I wouldn't really know when those cruel emperors are supposed to be associated with foreign people. Like I read that sometimes having Japanese or Malaysian villain was like having a German or Transylvanian villain.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 18 February 2015 19:07 (four years ago) link

xp I know - in the Agents of Atlas mini they actually try to clean it up by having the guy reclaim it as "dammit it's GOLDEN CLAW you dumb racist Americans"

Nhex, Wednesday, 18 February 2015 19:24 (four years ago) link

Which are the best crossover events worth reading?

Just finished the Infinity Gauntlet one and have all 51 issues of Infinity War lined up next (and then onto Crusade, Abyss, The End and Annihilation).

Any more recent ones worth checking out? Civil War? X-Men?

groovypanda, Wednesday, 18 February 2015 21:28 (four years ago) link

The worthiness of a given crossover can often be measured in part by how familiar you are with the characters/situations presented therein. There are several decent X-Men crossovers that may not do much for you if you haven't read a year or so ahead of when the crossover started.

The best crossover from recent years (and one that doesn't require much of a new reader) is Annihilation. The Infinity stuff doesn't really even provide much of a preamble to it. It's pretty easy to just jump right in.

Steak Sauce On My Cummerbund (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 18 February 2015 21:36 (four years ago) link

kind of - since it was all on MU anyway, i did find the preceding Marvel: The End and Thanos series that preceded Annihilation to be worthwhile

Nhex, Wednesday, 18 February 2015 23:11 (four years ago) link

really loved the mutant massacre

IHeartMedia, the giant broadcaster formerly known as Clear Channel, (stevie), Wednesday, 18 February 2015 23:49 (four years ago) link

one month passes...

idk where to put this (there's no Bronze Age Marvel or Superhero Spanking threads) so um yeah:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-iN6RbCdaO_s/VPiE1ySuYLI/AAAAAAABIPE/XJCG_YRlnXc/s1600/MarvelTwo-in-One062-11.jpg

Οὖτις, Thursday, 26 March 2015 18:50 (four years ago) link

More directly:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tV54wy_IBVg

RICHARD GROWTH (fake penthouse letters mcgee), Saturday, 28 March 2015 16:40 (four years ago) link

So I'm apparently going all-in on Secret Wars and its 25,847 crossover issues. In case you were wondering who'd be dumb enough to do that.

Gimme Gimme Pop Secret (Old Lunch), Sunday, 29 March 2015 16:37 (four years ago) link

post here.

Maybe in 100 years someone will say damn Dawn was dope. (forksclovetofu), Sunday, 29 March 2015 16:48 (four years ago) link

Make a thread like Aldo's 52 excursion.

EZ Snappin, Sunday, 29 March 2015 16:54 (four years ago) link

that video is pretty great btw

Maybe in 100 years someone will say damn Dawn was dope. (forksclovetofu), Sunday, 29 March 2015 16:54 (four years ago) link

The best thing about DC this week has been the last issues of a lot of books, and stories actually ENDING.

the bowels are not what they seem (aldo), Sunday, 29 March 2015 17:53 (four years ago) link

two weeks pass...

I'm a few years behind on Marvel stuff so I've put my silver age marathon on pause (up to '71 currently) to catch up on material that seems like it might be germane to Secret Wars. Having only read a little of Hickman's Secret Warriors and Fantastic Four before, my current deep plunge into that material has been overwhelming. I don't know if it's going to ultimately add up to anything or how long it's going to take to get there if it does, but every one of these issues is a massive info dump of new concepts and new characters and new timelines and locations. Pretty much the polar opposite of the decompressed style that was so in vogue just a few years prior. I can see where it might've been kind of a confusing slog to keep up with on a monthly basis, but it's been thrilling to read through a couple years' worth of this over a handful of days. Feel like that dude's home must be plastered floor to ceiling with notes and maps and strings connecting this map to that note. Depending on how adroitly he's been able to play the long game, I have a degree of faith that he'll be able to make Secret Wars Mk 2 an interesting failure at the very least.

what are tbey going to do to keep the laughs coming (Old Lunch), Friday, 17 April 2015 16:11 (four years ago) link

I'm actually quite excited to read it.

Chuck_Tatum, Friday, 17 April 2015 16:28 (four years ago) link

Yeah, me too, despite being out of the modern day Marvel loop for a while. It feels more like a proper EVENT than the crossovers they've gotten in the habit of tossing out every few months. It's sparking a bit of the excitement I got from tracking down new Infinity Gauntlet installments back in the day, which is the thing that began my Zombification in earnest.

what are tbey going to do to keep the laughs coming (Old Lunch), Friday, 17 April 2015 16:38 (four years ago) link

I'm going to read it just in hopes of it starting out with a recap of what the hell's been happening in the Avengers titles for the last 2 years, because I'm pretty much lost.

WilliamC, Friday, 17 April 2015 16:42 (four years ago) link

I initially thought I'd just cover a little bit of the preamble by reading the Time Runs Out stuff but then I made the mistake of reading hints and allegations that Hickman has been planting these seeds for years and I appear to have fallen down a rabbit hole where I've deluded myself into thinking I can read the last half decade of Marvel's output in the next couple of weeks. Because that's my brain for ya.

what are tbey going to do to keep the laughs coming (Old Lunch), Friday, 17 April 2015 16:50 (four years ago) link

Nothing is directly tied to the Council of Reeds that he did back in FF, but there's definitely a line of continuity from those days to now

mh, Friday, 17 April 2015 17:10 (four years ago) link

the only prepping i've done is Hickman's New Avengers + Avengers runs and i feel totally prepared. overprepared even.

Mordy, Friday, 17 April 2015 17:12 (four years ago) link

The Avengers' insane plottiness makes it seem like Hickman is constituionally incapable of doing character work or jokes, but there's a lot of sweet-natured character stuff in his Fantastic Four. I wonder why he seems to have intentionally subsumed that aspect this time 'round (not that I don't enjoy the insane plottiness). I need an Anhillus on the crapper moment.

Chuck_Tatum, Saturday, 18 April 2015 06:59 (four years ago) link

Started the Hickman Avengers - it's really nice art but the fight scenes are all completely incoherent. Totes impressed they could sell this to people issue by issue when half are just introducing a new character so far (through 8-9).

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Sunday, 19 April 2015 07:47 (four years ago) link

One of my Secret Wars solicitations this month is "Mrs. Deadpool and the Howling Commandos." Basically rolling dice on ordering that.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Monday, 20 April 2015 03:16 (four years ago) link

do it, what the hell

Nhex, Monday, 20 April 2015 03:26 (four years ago) link

I don't know if this is a useful metric but, while I probably would not usually have purchased a comic called Mrs. Deadpool and the Howling Commandos, I will be purchasing (and I guess I technically have already purchased) a comic called Mrs. Deadpool and the Howling Commandos because it will also have the words "Secret" and "Wars" on the cover.

I Stepped On Your Samwich (Old Lunch), Monday, 20 April 2015 13:56 (four years ago) link

So, Iceman's gay then.

On the Deadpool thing, he's been married to Shiklah Queen of the Undead for about a year.

the bowels are not what they seem (aldo), Tuesday, 21 April 2015 20:35 (four years ago) link

um, this seems counter to iceman's long term storyline?

Premise ridiculous. Who have two potato? (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 21 April 2015 20:40 (four years ago) link

Remember when he kept trying to date Opal, and his dad was furious because she was Japanese? And then, she kind of dumped him because he was never interested in her unless she was in trouble.

mh, Tuesday, 21 April 2015 20:41 (four years ago) link

iceman has successfully dated zero women, iirc

mh, Tuesday, 21 April 2015 20:41 (four years ago) link

An interesting post about that.

Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 21 April 2015 20:44 (four years ago) link

having read two pages and not the entire issue where this is a plot beat, yes, it does seem really token and dismissive

really this is about establishing his sexuality as canon before this summer where we get an adult gay Iceman who has never been interested in women being the only multiversal survivor post-Battleworld

mh, Tuesday, 21 April 2015 20:51 (four years ago) link

that's weird and interesting reading AF, i'm at a loss at the suggestion that skirt-chasing bobby was just dealing with being in the closet for the past sixtyfive years but hey, whatever.

Premise ridiculous. Who have two potato? (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 21 April 2015 21:09 (four years ago) link

I'm a superhero comics infant, now about halfway through Infinity in the Hickman Avengers/New Avengers run and it's kind of off-putting how they'll spend five issues laying out plot and then BAM kind of incoherent resolution in the sixth issue just in time for the TPB collection.

Are the majors usually better about pacing, or is that par for the course?

I do like that Spider-Man is a bit of a dick.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Tuesday, 21 April 2015 21:34 (four years ago) link

Yeah, the Mrs. Deadpool thing happened a while back (tbh, I measure big events/comic time in the ridiculous high-dollar variants I was able to sell on Ebay).

At least with most of the Secret Wars titles there's something I can connect to, but is Mrs. Deadpool going to sell the same as Deadpool? Nah. I wound up just matching that title to my lowest Secret Wars titles.

Reading the Hickman comics does give me hope that Secret Wars is going to be much less of a disaster than Convergence, but that doesn't take much.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Tuesday, 21 April 2015 21:36 (four years ago) link

"Are the majors usually better about pacing, or is that par for the course?"

I don't know that there are any super hero comics going now that really excellent examples of the genre. Pacing has been pretty screwed up on current comics stretching for the trade.

While there are some really good super hero comics made in the last decade or so, I do somewhat agree with the idea that the high water mark was in the 80s.

earlnash, Tuesday, 21 April 2015 22:21 (four years ago) link

As Ed B told me once, "the writing was so much worse but the STORIES WERE SO MUCH BETTER"

demonic mnevice (Jon Lewis), Tuesday, 21 April 2015 22:42 (four years ago) link

Yeah, that's true. Code comics were just different, they were more like the best Saturday morning cartoons you never saw.

You don't need to fret on the logic of why the Masters of Evil were busting into the Avengers mansion to beat the crap out of them, it was just what they did and it was cool. You get too serious and it all just breaks down.

earlnash, Tuesday, 21 April 2015 23:38 (four years ago) link

I dispute that! I mean, I read comics in a different way now to how I did when I was 12, obviously. But I still qualitatively enjoy them a lot, when they're good, and it feels like the last decade of comics was certainly better than the decade that preceded it - both of which I (just about) experienced as an adult (in purchasing power if not maturity).

Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 21 April 2015 23:53 (four years ago) link

Jesus fucking christ. I count 57 Secret Wars crossover issues in July's solicitations. 57.

Honey Mustard On My Tunic (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 22 April 2015 01:13 (four years ago) link

Yup. It's a nightmare on the retail side.

At least DC, with Convergence, made the main series returnable, offered decent discount incentives on the miniseries and all the new series launching have returnability. That made ordering easy - I met my return quota and I'll be able to adjust orders for future issues after I see how those #1s do.

Marvel doesn't give a damn. Even the number to get popular variants (like the Skottie Young covers) is high, much less to hit the few discount numbers they're offering.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Wednesday, 22 April 2015 02:15 (four years ago) link

tbh you can charge an arm and leg for those, that is why they figure you'll buy all the issues and pump up their numbers

otoh, I had to look up who Skottie Young is because I just read the damn things and only really get into artists over a period of issues

mh, Wednesday, 22 April 2015 03:11 (four years ago) link

I really think some retailers just take the number of issues to get an incentive cover, multiply it by the per-issue wholesale cost, and then throw the incentive cover on eBay at that price.

mh, Wednesday, 22 April 2015 03:12 (four years ago) link

What's the appeal of those Skottie Young covers? They are like hella ugly Margaret Keane chintz

Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 22 April 2015 09:28 (four years ago) link

The Young covers just go for retail - it's a different kind of incentive, you have to meet or exceed the number on a prior comic.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Wednesday, 22 April 2015 17:32 (four years ago) link

tbh i love the skottie young covers bcz they are adorable

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 22 April 2015 19:24 (four years ago) link

I don't like all the teeth. But you know, potato potato

Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 22 April 2015 20:24 (four years ago) link

And the 1% retailer incentive audience say potàäæÂâåto.

the bowels are not what they seem (aldo), Wednesday, 22 April 2015 22:06 (four years ago) link

Finished Avengers/New Avengers past Infinity but I'm pretty burned out on it.

What's some Marvel Unlimited classic stuff I should try?

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Friday, 24 April 2015 06:04 (four years ago) link

Added Simonson/Thor and the first Runaways series

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Friday, 24 April 2015 06:45 (four years ago) link

one month passes...

Someone on the John Buscema Facebook page shared this great anecdote about Buscema's art tuition class:

So there we were, in Buscema's Workshop for Comic Book Art, at the Commodore Hotel - one day close to Christmas. Big John decided to hand out pages of original art as a gift to each of us. As he reached my seat, he was surprised to find this splash page in the stack! "I could get $50. for this one!" he exclaimed as he tried to shuffle it back to the bottom of the stack and hand me the next page down - but the next one had been heavily corrected & pieced together... Buscema paused for a moment, looked at this longingly, then shoved it at me... "What the Hell! Merry Christmas, kid!"

And this is the page:

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xta1/t31.0-8/s960x960/11406607_10207496983886091_7641302544163860037_o.jpg

sʌxihɔːl (Ward Fowler), Thursday, 18 June 2015 20:09 (four years ago) link

wow. hell of a piece of art too!

like a giraffe of nah (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 18 June 2015 21:02 (four years ago) link

I never had much of an appreciation for Buscema (John, anyway...I was wild about Sal back in the day) until I started reading some of his old Conan stuff and wondering how the hell I'd overlooked him before.

Feeding My Whole Family With A Pack Of Taco Shells (Old Lunch), Thursday, 18 June 2015 22:51 (four years ago) link

FYI, still doing the pre-Secret Wars catch-up and started reading Remender's Captain America more out of a sense of completionism than real interest, but it's actually really good! The first arc, anyway, which is some Planet Hulk-level Big Action gamechangery.

Feeding My Whole Family With A Pack Of Taco Shells (Old Lunch), Thursday, 18 June 2015 22:55 (four years ago) link

i caught up on remender's cap recently too and really enjoyed it. cap's relationship with ian was surprisingly touching!

bizarro gazzara, Friday, 19 June 2015 09:39 (four years ago) link

Yeah, he really pulled off the hat trick that's eluded Marvel so much of late in creating a big and bombastic action story that also has legitimate emotional beats and characters the reader cares about and is invested in.

Feeding My Whole Family With A Pack Of Taco Shells (Old Lunch), Friday, 19 June 2015 12:14 (four years ago) link

Steve Rogers as a dad is really something that makes a lot of sense.

Upright Mammal (mh), Friday, 19 June 2015 13:50 (four years ago) link

It's good! I think the run kind of falls apart after that story, sadly, although the big blowout finish is worth slogging through to get to. But then the Falcon stuff back to being super generic.

Just noticed that Jeff Lemire is the X-men writer, which is a hot snooze.

Chuck_Tatum, Friday, 19 June 2015 16:30 (four years ago) link

Stoked for:
Captain Marvel
Daredeveil
Dr. Strange
Iron Man
Thor
Sam Wilson, Capt. America
Vision
Spider-Man (Miles Morales)

Will give a chance for a few issues:
A-Force
All New All Different Avengers
Ant-Man
Hawkeye
New Avengers
Scarlet Witch
Squadron Supreme
Ultimates
Old Man Logan
Spider-Woman
Karnak
Uncanny Inhumans
Illuminati

Little or no interest:
Agents of SHIELD
Angela
Nova
Hulk
Uncanny Avengers
Wolverine
All New X-Men
Deadpool
Extraordinary X-Men
Uncanny X-Men
Amazing Spider-Man
Carnage
Silk
Spider-Gwen
Spider-Man 2099
Venom: Spaceknight
Web Warriors
Ms. Marvel
Guardians of the Galaxy (might check it for 1 or 2 issues)
Drax
Star-Lord
Gamora
Contest of Champions
Howard the Duck
Howling Commandos of SHIELD

it's not arugula science (WilliamC), Tuesday, 30 June 2015 21:45 (four years ago) link

They're on issue three (I think) of Lemire's All-New Hawkeye and it's pretty good, Hawkeye #22 hasn't come out and they're already announcing a #1 for a new Hawkeye series. Yeeesh.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Wednesday, 1 July 2015 02:29 (four years ago) link

a new hawkeye *other* than all-new hawkeye??

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 1 July 2015 05:52 (four years ago) link

All-New-Hawkeyeeye

groovypanda, Wednesday, 1 July 2015 06:48 (four years ago) link

Nothing by Hickman or Gillen, and Daredevil and Loki are finishing, so this is a net loss for me - especially Daredevil, which should've just carried on permanently like a Dick Tracy strip or something.

But still, some interesting-looking stuff. Al E has three titles, which is super, including a Mighty Avengers reboot. Jason Aaron on Doc Strange seems like a good match. Thor will probably carry on being great.

Still curious why Charles Soule and Jeff Lemire getting so much work, both kinda unexceptional.

Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 1 July 2015 09:27 (four years ago) link

What are the other two Al E titles?

Tim, Wednesday, 1 July 2015 10:32 (four years ago) link

Ulitmates (!) and New Avengers (!!)

Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 1 July 2015 10:50 (four years ago) link

Actually I guess Ultimates is kind of the reboot (as it has Monica Rambeau and Blue Marvel, along with Black Panther, America Chavez, Captain Marvel and, er, Galactus). Contest of Champions, a video game adaptation, is his third.

Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 1 July 2015 10:59 (four years ago) link

Gillen has been coy and non-bridge-burning about it, but since The Wicked & the Divine has blown up, he's been describing his Battleworld work as his farewell (for now, depending on circumstances, etc) to Marvel - of course he's still writing Darth Vader.

Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 1 July 2015 11:01 (four years ago) link

I personally prefer his hackwork to his indie work, but really hard to begrudge that decision. Kind of hated his work until I finally read Journey into Mystery; he's really grown on me since.

Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 1 July 2015 11:40 (four years ago) link

Still haven't quite synced up with Gillen. On the other hand, I wasn't that into Jason Aaron based on what I'd read of his in the past but having just read his first year on Thor I may be changing my tune. Really good stuff, and I'm glad to see he's sticking with it.

Turn That Pout Inside Out! (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 1 July 2015 12:50 (four years ago) link

a new hawkeye *other* than all-new hawkeye??

Yeah, it's advertised as "Hawkeye vs Hawkeye" and the (potential) cover is Old Man Hawkeye in the background staring down over Kate.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Wednesday, 1 July 2015 16:22 (four years ago) link

Cool to see Greg Pak back on the Hulk, as well.

Turn That Pout Inside Out! (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 1 July 2015 17:42 (four years ago) link

I think Aaron's first year-and-a-half on Thor was my favourite trad superhero thing since, I dunno, Seven Soldiers. It's levelled out a bit since then, but it's still very good.

Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 1 July 2015 20:22 (four years ago) link

Finally a release date for Hawkeye #22 -- July 15th.

dart scar rashes (WilliamC), Sunday, 5 July 2015 14:24 (four years ago) link

What happened to Surfer?

Allen (etaeoe), Sunday, 5 July 2015 15:17 (four years ago) link

That's a very vague question.

dart scar rashes (WilliamC), Sunday, 5 July 2015 15:29 (four years ago) link

lately he's been traveling around space w/ his human love interest

Mordy, Sunday, 5 July 2015 15:43 (four years ago) link

Finally a release date for Hawkeye #22 -- July 15th.

― dart scar rashes (WilliamC), Sunday, July 5, 2015 2:24 PM (4 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i'd completely forgotten this was coming lol

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 9 July 2015 20:31 (four years ago) link

It remains to be seen if my theory pays off once I get caught up to Secret Wars, but I'm about a year into a bunch of the Marvel Now! reboot titles and it seems like almost all of them have contained a plot/subplot involving potentially-inadvisable time/space fuckery. I'm assuming at the moment that this is all part of the years-long planning that went into SW, so it'll be interesting to see how many of these plot strands get callbacks.

Turn That Pout Inside Out! (Old Lunch), Thursday, 9 July 2015 23:18 (four years ago) link

I was reading somewhere a review basically making the point that Silver Surfer is currently Doctor Who with the serial numbers filed off

as verbose and purple as a Peter Ustinov made of plums (James Morrison), Friday, 10 July 2015 02:04 (four years ago) link

ha, that's right! but allred, so great!

like a giraffe of nah (forksclovetofu), Friday, 10 July 2015 04:29 (four years ago) link

I assumed all the time-wimey stuff was just writers being told to go for broke with the status quo, safe in the knowledge that everything would reset after Secret Wars.

Daredevil seems to be (spoiler alert) going for a proper reboot, with MM back in New York, no one knowing his secret ID, and (presumably) none of Waid's supporting cast. Which is disappointing but I guess ultimately who cares. Is there a word for fridging via continuity reboot?

Chuck_Tatum, Friday, 10 July 2015 10:00 (four years ago) link

Judging from his Facebook page, Dan Slott, who is writing SS at the moment, is a massive Who fan

sʌxihɔːl (Ward Fowler), Friday, 10 July 2015 10:12 (four years ago) link

I was reading somewhere a review basically making the point that Silver Surfer is currently Doctor Who with the serial numbers filed off

*adds Silver Surfer to pull list*

I Am Curious (Dolezal) (DJP), Friday, 10 July 2015 13:04 (four years ago) link

too late, it's all over, man

Upright Mammal (mh), Friday, 10 July 2015 13:44 (four years ago) link

*hops into time machine*

I Am Curious (Dolezal) (DJP), Friday, 10 July 2015 13:45 (four years ago) link

If I had one request for Marvel at the moment, it would be that they let their post-Secret Wars titles just, y'know, keep running. Stop all the rebooting. We're about to get the third Uncanny X-Men #1 in less than five years. At the very very least, I would ask that they figure out a way for the collections to make sense of the reboot confusion (e.g. the multiple different Captain Marvel trades I saw in the bookstore labeled as Volume 1). I'm able to keep track only because I'm a super Marvel nerd, but the casual fan isn't going to give enough of a shit to try to figure out Marvel's lack of rationale wrt this stuff.

Ooo! Ooo! Whattayado? (Old Lunch), Friday, 10 July 2015 13:55 (four years ago) link

I've been reading random Marvel collections that are on scribd -- switched to it over Marvel Unlimited for a while since it also has IDW/Valiant stuff. Their organization is really bad, especially from the iPad app. Sometimes you can pick a collection and it'll know what sequence the following collections are in, but browsing is bad.

The lesson it has taught me is that randomly consuming storylines in nonsequential order isn't all that bad, but it's kind of irritating.

Upright Mammal (mh), Friday, 10 July 2015 14:00 (four years ago) link

I should start a thread about the new Valiant universe if we don't have one. There's some good stuff in there.

Upright Mammal (mh), Friday, 10 July 2015 14:00 (four years ago) link

I wondered how long it was going to take for the wheels to start coming off of Marvel's Epic Collections plan (for those unfamiliar, they're unofficially replacing the Essentials but are being ambitiously released out of order with volume numbers assigned, e.g. Avengers v.17: Judgement Day) and the answer is 'a little over a year'. I bought the two books collecting the Spider-Man alien costume stuff, which are nicely comprehensive and cover all of the involved titles from that period...and which heavily overlap with a separate Spider-Man Epic Collection that was released last summer. And these books are super not cheap. So, y'know, yet another round of congratulations to the Marvel reprint department.

Ooo! Ooo! Whattayado? (Old Lunch), Friday, 10 July 2015 14:03 (four years ago) link

That's a very vague question.

LOL. Why wasn’t it picked up? It isn’t in the new Marvel Previews. It’s my favorite Marvel title. :(

Allen (etaeoe), Friday, 10 July 2015 14:49 (four years ago) link

Every Marvel title is ending. Many of them are being rebooted (most with new creative teams) after Secret Wars is over.

Ooo! Ooo! Whattayado? (Old Lunch), Friday, 10 July 2015 14:50 (four years ago) link

I wondered how long it was going to take for the wheels to start coming off of Marvel's Epic Collections plan (for those unfamiliar, they're unofficially replacing the Essentials but are being ambitiously released out of order with volume numbers assigned, e.g. Avengers v.17: Judgement Day) and the answer is 'a little over a year'. I bought the two books collecting the Spider-Man alien costume stuff, which are nicely comprehensive and cover all of the involved titles from that period...and which heavily overlap with a separate Spider-Man Epic Collection that was released last summer. And these books are super not cheap. So, y'know, yet another round of congratulations to the Marvel reprint department.

I like them. They released an Iron Fist volume this week which is nice since Iron Fist never got a Masterworks paperback.

Allen (etaeoe), Friday, 10 July 2015 15:10 (four years ago) link

I like them in theory except that a) they're effing expensive and b) they're replacing an abandoned reprint series that was much more affordable. Like that Iron Fist Epic Collection is basically just a color version of Essential Iron Fist at double the price.

Ooo! Ooo! Whattayado? (Old Lunch), Friday, 10 July 2015 15:20 (four years ago) link

The expense might be worth it to people who prefer color reprints but I think it's a shame that the Essentials had to be sacrificed in the process.

Ooo! Ooo! Whattayado? (Old Lunch), Friday, 10 July 2015 15:21 (four years ago) link

Yeah, I miss the Essential, too. The repro on the Epic Collections looks OK on the whole, but a lot of them have new colouring, not always to good effect.

sʌxihɔːl (Ward Fowler), Friday, 10 July 2015 15:25 (four years ago) link

Thankfully, I'm currently only about 10-12 books away from owning all of the Essentials, so I don't have too much work to do before they're all totally out of print and fetching exorbitant prices. Such is my sickness.

Ooo! Ooo! Whattayado? (Old Lunch), Friday, 10 July 2015 15:29 (four years ago) link

I held off buying the Black Panther Essentials because I had all the Kirby material in it, and now that's one of the ones going for stupid prices. And the Marvel Masterworks reprinting the McGregor stuff is also out of print. I guess there'll be an Epic Collection at some point, but can't see it being a big priority.

sʌxihɔːl (Ward Fowler), Friday, 10 July 2015 15:36 (four years ago) link

It could be, with the impending movie. The MCU seems to be driving a lot of the reprints these days.

Ooo! Ooo! Whattayado? (Old Lunch), Friday, 10 July 2015 15:43 (four years ago) link

I mean, they're finally starting proper reprints of Priest's run starting this month or next. So keep your eyes peeled.

Ooo! Ooo! Whattayado? (Old Lunch), Friday, 10 July 2015 15:45 (four years ago) link

Ahh, didn't know there was a BP movie in the works. I was looking at an Ant Man Epic Collection just the other day - on the one hand, it reprints some very rare and expensive early Marvel comics at a reasonable-ish price - on the other hand, most of the stories are utter rubbish.

sʌxihɔːl (Ward Fowler), Friday, 10 July 2015 15:51 (four years ago) link

Maybe it’s regional, but most Epics I’ve seen sell for $25.00 (i.e. $10 more than Essentials) and I’ve never seen them sold for cover price.

Allen (etaeoe), Friday, 10 July 2015 16:13 (four years ago) link

Nonetheless, they should’ve kept Essentials!

Allen (etaeoe), Friday, 10 July 2015 16:13 (four years ago) link

I like both Masterworks (paperback) and Essentials. They really need to rethink Omnibuses. They are way too expensive and impossible to read (for their price you’d expect a textbook binding).

Allen (etaeoe), Friday, 10 July 2015 16:15 (four years ago) link

<I>I mean, they're finally starting proper reprints of Priest's run starting this month or next. So keep your eyes peeled.</I>

!!! This is very good news, just recently discovered my old floppies.

Andrew Farrell, Friday, 10 July 2015 16:23 (four years ago) link

And the second volume is due in December or something, so it looks like chances are good that they'll plow through to the end.

Something Called Fudge (Old Lunch), Friday, 10 July 2015 16:29 (four years ago) link

I was looking at an Ant Man Epic Collection just the other day - on the one hand, it reprints some very rare and expensive early Marvel comics at a reasonable-ish price - on the other hand, most of the stories are utter rubbish.

Yeah, those early Ant-Man stories are really awful. Pretty much the low point of the Silver Age, from what I've read. That collection is a little silly, since the material they're reprinting was already issued in an Essentials trade and, to the extent that the movie was an impetus for its publication, it would have made much more sense to put out a collection of the as-yet-unreprinted Scott Lang stuff from the '70s. Deep sighs, Marvel.

Something Called Fudge (Old Lunch), Friday, 10 July 2015 16:32 (four years ago) link

Tell me about the recoloring on the epic collections. I am defaulting to the assumption that it is hideous and detrimental but would love to hear to the contrary

demonic mnevice (Jon Lewis), Friday, 10 July 2015 19:11 (four years ago) link

It probably depends on what era is being reprinted, yeah? The coloring in those Spidey alien costume trades looks appropriately '80s-ish and understated, IIRC. I don't think I've ever seen recoloring as awful and garish as what Dark Horse, et al did to the reprints of the '70s R.E. Howard stuff, so I rarely have complaints in that regard.

Something Called Fudge (Old Lunch), Friday, 10 July 2015 19:26 (four years ago) link

I take it you haven't seen the Nick Fury paperback reprint of SHIELD stuff

Upright Mammal (mh), Friday, 10 July 2015 19:28 (four years ago) link

This is true. I will, however, probably buy the new, complete Nick Fury, Agent of SHIELD omnibus sight unseen despite what I've heard about the earlier trade.

Something Called Fudge (Old Lunch), Friday, 10 July 2015 19:50 (four years ago) link

Jon, I wouldn't say that the (re)colouring on the epic collections is 'hideous' - I'm guessing that it's matched to the original comic printing in most cases, and as Old Lunch says, on the whole it's understated - they haven't added flashy computer colouring effects to old Kirby/Ditko pages. In comparison to the early hardcover Masterworks - truly some of the nastiest recolouring I've ever seen - they're a model of taste and restraint. But it is still obviously colour produced on a computer, so 'feels' wrong, and I would be more interested in Marvel reprints shot directly from the comics themselves. Of Of course,Marvel kept very very poor copies - if at all - of their early superhero titles, so that almost from the start, reprints of the Silver Age material have involved greater or lesser amounts of 'correction', redrawing etc, that often significantly departs from the original artwork and its first printing.

sʌxihɔːl (Ward Fowler), Friday, 10 July 2015 20:05 (four years ago) link

The costumes looks nothing alike, beyond what you'd get if you got two guys to design different spider-man costumes. I am curious how common the <something>-Man name would have been back then, though.

Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 17:12 (four years ago) link

I think there was a Superguy or something back then

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 17:22 (four years ago) link

there was also whatsisname, Batfellow

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 17:23 (four years ago) link

Aquachap

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 17:24 (four years ago) link

Amazing-Man, Atomic Man, Bronze Man, Bulletman, Cat-Man, Doll Man, Dynamic Man, Hawkman, Hourman, Hydro Man, Master Man, Mighty Man, Plastic Man, Robotman, Rockman, Sandman, Skyman, Starman, V-Man, Wonder Man

are all from the 40s

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 17:28 (four years ago) link

but seriously, while it's usually safe to assume that Stan Lee never thought up anything worthwhile by himself, the costume thing seems like a stretch

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 17:29 (four years ago) link

If you look at the mask and squint a little from a distance you get a little bit of the same feel as Marvel's Spider-Man but... yeah, this could be completely unrelated.

I mean, two independent people come up with spider-related costumes and they both use webs? What are the odds!

Upright Mammal (mh), Wednesday, 15 July 2015 17:48 (four years ago) link

xpost Ahem, Stripperella?

Something Called Fudge (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 15 July 2015 17:56 (four years ago) link

you're right, I stand corrected

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 18:03 (four years ago) link

some day we will figure out the composite of characters he absorbed traits from to come up with his Stan Lee character

Upright Mammal (mh), Wednesday, 15 July 2015 18:05 (four years ago) link

PT Barnum and Robert E Lee iirc

you are extreme, Patti LuPone. (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 15 July 2015 18:22 (four years ago) link

he saw a funky flashman costume at some point

Upright Mammal (mh), Wednesday, 15 July 2015 19:03 (four years ago) link

David Brothers is patient on that:

http://tumblr.iamdavidbrothers.com/post/124166143967/can-you-explain-why-marvel-thinks-that-doing-hip

Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 16 July 2015 19:08 (four years ago) link

booming response there, hope marvel pays attention

bizarro gazzara, Friday, 17 July 2015 08:38 (four years ago) link

still bigger than hip hop

Upright Mammal (mh), Friday, 17 July 2015 14:10 (four years ago) link

It looks like the response from David Brothers had already been written and reposted by Brevoort, along with another response that was responded to by Brevoort wherein he fleshed out his response, prior to any of this popping up in the thread.

Something Called Fudge (Old Lunch), Friday, 17 July 2015 15:08 (four years ago) link

one month passes...

Ok this made me chuckle
http://www.comicbookmovie.com/deadpool/news/?a=124258
Marvel’s Latest Joke Is A Playful Jab At DC Comics
Check out the new Deadpool "Candy Varient" in which Marvel takes a playful jab at DC Comics advertising department. For those who need to be caught up, read on after the jump

For those of you that need to be caught up, DC Comics stunned the comic book community a few months ago by stating that the June issues will feature half-page ads on story pages.
http://oi58.tinypic.com/34y65c6.jpg

tsrobodo, Friday, 21 August 2015 12:24 (four years ago) link

They stunned the comic book community that aren't old enough to remember when half-page ads were kind of a regular thing.

Not that they were a good thing or that I'm in any way advocating their return. Just saying, y'know, there's precedent.

Do you have or use horses? (Old Lunch), Friday, 21 August 2015 12:51 (four years ago) link

When are we talking about? I've been reading for a few decades and it doesn't ring a bell (but my memory is terrible).

Andrew Farrell, Friday, 21 August 2015 12:55 (four years ago) link

Frequent practice on both Marvel and DC comics throughout the 1960s and into the 1970s at least

More egregious - Marvel's early 70s trick of blowing up a single page into a double page spread

sʌxihɔːl (Ward Fowler), Friday, 21 August 2015 12:58 (four years ago) link

kinda amusing that marvel are decrying dc's commercial policies on the cover of yet another first-issue grab for those collector dollars

bizarro gazzara, Friday, 21 August 2015 13:23 (four years ago) link

Also, it's maybe not wise to draw attention to advertising practices being employed by the Distinguished Competition. Marvel's ad department might start getting ideas.

This seems particularly egregious with the price of floppies skyrocketing, but it just underscores my belief that the Big Two are pushing to make floppies as undesirable as possible before ultimately phasing them out altogether.

Do you have or use horses? (Old Lunch), Friday, 21 August 2015 13:35 (four years ago) link

most egregious: spelling ingest "injest" in the small print on that cover

Credit: howtokeepapositiveattitudedotcom (stevie), Friday, 21 August 2015 13:37 (four years ago) link

or is that something americans do?

Credit: howtokeepapositiveattitudedotcom (stevie), Friday, 21 August 2015 13:37 (four years ago) link

only Americans who don't know how to spell

I Am Curious (Dolezal) (DJP), Friday, 21 August 2015 13:38 (four years ago) link

Well, given that the front cover is, you know, in jest...

Andrew Farrell, Friday, 21 August 2015 13:57 (four years ago) link

americans: bad spellers, bad punners

μpright mammal (mh), Friday, 21 August 2015 14:05 (four years ago) link

There's a helpful little entry on this blog about Marvel's half page ads period:

http://hayfamzone.blogspot.co.uk/

sʌxihɔːl (Ward Fowler), Friday, 21 August 2015 14:09 (four years ago) link

I read James Robinson's FF run that led up to the present the other day. It's decent, but if anything it seems really rote compared to the crazy stuff Hickman was doing and the villain is underdeveloped. The kids seem... too childish compared to the other recent portrayals? I mean, they are kids, but after the Future Foundation run Val and Franklin are a couple of my favorites.

μpright mammal (mh), Friday, 21 August 2015 14:15 (four years ago) link

kinda amusing that marvel are decrying dc's commercial policies on the cover of yet another first-issue grab for those collector dollars

specifically on a variant cover

let no-one live rent free in your butt (sic), Friday, 21 August 2015 14:41 (four years ago) link

I'm reading Infinity at the moment and resigning myself to the impossibility of getting caught up soon enough to read any part of Secret Wars in real time. For those interested, I'd break down the first year of Marvel Now! stuff (that I've read) thusly:

I think it's great and recommend it highly:
Captain America
Thor: God of Thunder
Avengers
New Avengers
Secret Avengers

I think it's quite good or at least appreciate the effort:
All-New X-Men/Uncanny X-Men/Wolverine and the X-Men
Uncanny Avengers
Young Avengers

I think it's, y'know, okay:
Fantastic Four/FF
Guardians of the Galaxy
Iron Man
Superior Spider-Man

I'm just not that into it:
Avengers Assemble
Captain Marvel
Fearless Defenders
Indestructible Hulk
Nova
Thunderbolts

Do you have or use horses? (Old Lunch), Friday, 21 August 2015 16:07 (four years ago) link

The newest iteration (I think! it keeps iterating) of Secret Avengers has a Modok that is in love with Maria Hill

μpright mammal (mh), Friday, 21 August 2015 16:44 (four years ago) link

You just made me wonder how a physical relationship with a Modok would work so "thanks" for that.

Do you have or use horses? (Old Lunch), Friday, 21 August 2015 17:11 (four years ago) link

I assume there's a lot of head

I Am Curious (Dolezal) (DJP), Friday, 21 August 2015 17:47 (four years ago) link

that's the DJP I know and love

μpright mammal (mh), Friday, 21 August 2015 18:01 (four years ago) link

lol, a+

bizarro gazzara, Friday, 21 August 2015 18:28 (four years ago) link

Two things I'd like to see in the wake of Secret Wars: 1) fewer title reboots (preferably zero of them, but this is the new world we live in) and 2) fewer mind-bendingly colossal threats to the earth/universe/multiverse. I'm digging Infinity thus far but, between the Builders and Thanos and the alternate earth incursions, the MU threat level has risen to the point where I don't know how anyone could top it.

Do you have or use horses? (Old Lunch), Friday, 21 August 2015 19:31 (four years ago) link

fewer mind-bendingly colossal threats to the earth/universe/multiverse.

feel like this is just the status quo for superhero comics from the 00s onwards. nobody just robs banks or fights crime or whatever anymore

Οὖτις, Friday, 21 August 2015 19:33 (four years ago) link

Hawkeyes does, to critical plaudits.

Andrew Farrell, Friday, 21 August 2015 19:35 (four years ago) link

fwiw the above is what I liked so much about Ms Marvel; the threats were definitely rooted in neighborhood sensibility, routed through Inhuman concerns

I Am Curious (Dolezal) (DJP), Friday, 21 August 2015 19:36 (four years ago) link

One of the downsides of the publishing side at Marvel is that they can go bigger and bigger and bigger with no increase in costs; they kind of forget to tell the human story. The MCU is kind of doing that neighborhood sensibility thing better, via the Netflix show(s), by virtue of sfx budget constraints.

rack of lamb of god (WilliamC), Friday, 21 August 2015 20:05 (four years ago) link

Aaron's Thor is pretty good at doing both.

Chuck_Tatum, Saturday, 22 August 2015 22:11 (four years ago) link

two months pass...

Warren Ellis's take on Karnak is a hoot. Well, maybe not a hoot, but very appealing.

Soule's Inhumans is less hooty, but there's an interesting thing about it: Steve McNiven, the inker, is billed ahead of Jay Leisten, penciler. Don't think I've ever seen that before. I know McNiven has the bigger name, but still odd and noteworthy.

Exit, pursued by Yogi Berra (WilliamC), Thursday, 22 October 2015 19:05 (three years ago) link

It kinda drives me nuts that Marvel has stopped indicating in their solicitations whether something is an actual series or just a miniseries. I don't think a single one of their post-Secret Wars books were listed as miniseries but I can't imagine, say, Karnak continuing beyond the six issues Ellis writes before he moves on to something else.

I Was Picking Up A Teaspoon When Something Happened To My Spine (Old Lunch), Thursday, 22 October 2015 19:15 (three years ago) link

I can sort of see the side of wanting to leave that status ambiguous in case it's a surprise hit. Has Ellis said specifically that he's only writing 6 issues?

Exit, pursued by Yogi Berra (WilliamC), Thursday, 22 October 2015 19:23 (three years ago) link

Isn't that Ellis's thing now? Limited runs, self-contained story arc, on to the next thing?

I Am Curious (Dolezal) (DJP), Thursday, 22 October 2015 19:25 (three years ago) link

Yeah, I just assumed. What's his longest run on a recent-ish Marvel title? Like 12 issues or so on Astonishing X-Men and Thunderbolts?

I Was Picking Up A Teaspoon When Something Happened To My Spine (Old Lunch), Thursday, 22 October 2015 19:28 (three years ago) link

I definitely get Marvel's decision to be cryptic about series length from a business perspective and I assumed that was the main reason behind it. It's still annoying. Unless it really is their intention to make everything theoretically ongoing until and unless it becomes clear that a given series doesn't have legs.

I Was Picking Up A Teaspoon When Something Happened To My Spine (Old Lunch), Thursday, 22 October 2015 19:31 (three years ago) link

McNiven, the inker, is billed ahead of Jay Leisten, penciler. Don't think I've ever seen that before.

When Alan Moore's Top Ten was running, you'd see reviews referring to "Zander Cannon's gritty inks" just because he was listed after Gene Ha.

let no-one live rent free in your butt (sic), Thursday, 22 October 2015 21:03 (three years ago) link

Some of Alex Ross' books are like that where he is painting on top of someone else's pencils and quite a few times where he is top billed with doing just the cover and co-plotting the comic.

earlnash, Saturday, 24 October 2015 21:44 (three years ago) link

one month passes...

Holy shit, guys. Master of Kung Fu omnibus in this month's comics solicitations. With mentions of Fu Manchu in the blurb. So I guess those rights issues are no longer an issue.

The Squirrel Who Punched His Dad In The Neck (Old Lunch), Saturday, 28 November 2015 15:07 (three years ago) link

I wonder if he finally hit public domain.

phở intellectual (WilliamC), Saturday, 28 November 2015 16:20 (three years ago) link

Isn't the standard copyright term in the US 95 years? So if the first Fu Manchu story was serialized from 1912 to 1913, it would've gone to public domain in 2007 or 2008, unless they managed to extend the copyright in some way.

Tuomas, Monday, 30 November 2015 10:53 (three years ago) link

It's usually X years from the author's DEATH. It's complicated by the way that in the US anything published pre-1923 is also public domain, so the early Fu Manchu is PD, but not all of it, and so the Rohmer estate uses the later stories to try to leverage the earlier stuff back into copyright.

as verbose and purple as a Peter Ustinov made of plums (James Morrison), Tuesday, 1 December 2015 00:55 (three years ago) link

I think they came up with a license. They are going to reprint the whole series in three omnibuses.

earlnash, Tuesday, 1 December 2015 01:20 (three years ago) link

Wonder how many kids became Fleetwood Mac fans thanks to MoKF? Biggest regret of selling collection pre-college is no longer having the complete MoKF run. These omnibuses sound great, and realistically, the $112 price tag is much less than rebuying the individual issues, but still, ouch. $450 or so to rebuy what I sold for pennies on the dollar makes me sad.

the body of a spider... (scampering alpaca), Friday, 4 December 2015 16:14 (three years ago) link

$450 or so = Ran across one site yesterday that said four omnibuses.

the body of a spider... (scampering alpaca), Friday, 4 December 2015 16:15 (three years ago) link

Wait for it to pop up on Amazon and you should be able to get them all for a pretty steep discount. Just don't wait so long that Marvel's infamous single, limited print run completely sells out.

The Featureless Mash That Was Once My Face (Old Lunch), Friday, 4 December 2015 16:20 (three years ago) link

Thanks, will do. And yeah, stalled on the complete hardcover Calvin & Hobbes and watched it go from mid-$60s to $125. Fool me twice...

the body of a spider... (scampering alpaca), Friday, 4 December 2015 16:53 (three years ago) link

Yeah, the Marvel printing policy is ridiculous. I'm thankful I managed to get the Simonson Thor and Annihilation omnibuses in time, because now they're both going for 250 bucks at Amazon. The Annihilation omnibus only came out last year!

Tuomas, Friday, 4 December 2015 19:31 (three years ago) link

If I don't preorder it before the December cut-off date (which the holidays make difficult, money-wise), I'm gonna have to snag this and the Nick Fury omnibus as early as possible in the new year. Because, yeah, Marvel's incredibly stupid about this stuff and they don't seem to make much of an adjustment based on potential demand. You generally just have to wait 5-10 years until they get around to reprinting the material in a different format. I had no idea about the Annihilation omnibus price hike, though! Thankfully preordered both of those omnibi (after stupidly selling the original trades and watching their second-hand prices skyrocket beyond anything affordable).

The Featureless Mash That Was Once My Face (Old Lunch), Friday, 4 December 2015 19:40 (three years ago) link

Thanks, will do. And yeah, stalled on the complete hardcover Calvin & Hobbes and watched it go from mid-$60s to $125. Fool me twice...

The binding on the hardcover was really bad FYI, and fell apart a lot.

glandular lansbury (sic), Friday, 4 December 2015 22:56 (three years ago) link

new Nick Fury omnibus? Does it have the same shitty re-coloring as previous collections?

Οὖτις, Friday, 4 December 2015 23:03 (three years ago) link

I don't know as I haven't seen it in person. But it collects all of the Lee & Kirby and Steranko stuff, so I'll be able to hold my nose if the reproduction is a little off.

The Featureless Mash That Was Once My Face (Old Lunch), Saturday, 5 December 2015 00:40 (three years ago) link

one month passes...

tomorrow is the end of the new Secret War

I am the only one looking forward to this after the last couple issues have had little more than "let's round up the forces," right?

μpright mammal (mh), Tuesday, 12 January 2016 19:23 (three years ago) link

No, I'm looking forward to it as well; it's bound to be better than most of the post-Secret Wars books I've been reading

(btw in case you were wondering, almost every X-Men book I can think of is now irredeemably terrible)

Very selfish, and very ironic (DJP), Tuesday, 12 January 2016 19:26 (three years ago) link

Vision book has an interesting premise but I find that in practice, I don't give a single, solitary shit about a solo Vision story

Very selfish, and very ironic (DJP), Tuesday, 12 January 2016 19:27 (three years ago) link

I'm finding it kind of interesting but so far it's domestic drama... with robots
...and now, witchcraft?

μpright mammal (mh), Tuesday, 12 January 2016 19:28 (three years ago) link

X-Men titles seem equally split between "let's rally the troops" and "mysterious forces are making us inferior merchandising property to the Inhumans"

The Cullen Bunn one that seems like a rehashed X-Force (X-Men assault squad) seems like it could be interesting but again, it's all action to start things off

μpright mammal (mh), Tuesday, 12 January 2016 19:30 (three years ago) link

the best post-SW title I picked up was the Karnak title, but it sounds like the artist has had some family problems and it's delayed

μpright mammal (mh), Tuesday, 12 January 2016 19:31 (three years ago) link

I'm still working my way through the Secret Wars pre-preamble. Thoroughly expect to read the first issue sometime in the next year or two.

Fun fact (which I don't remember how I discovered): there were more Secret Wars crossover issues than the total issues put out under the New Universe banner. And I think more than 2099, as well, but I'd have to double check that. At any rate, the volume surpassed a couple of multi-year, multi-title lines.

Reckless Recluse (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 12 January 2016 19:32 (three years ago) link

The only thing about Uncanny X-Men that I find "interesting" is the inclusion of M on the murder squad. I'm kind of done with the Psylocke/Archangel treadmill, good Sabretooth is basically indistinguishable from Wolverine, and Magneto being Magneto only less logical isn't a draw.

On the plus side, there are some hilarious Greg Land splash pages in there.

Very selfish, and very ironic (DJP), Tuesday, 12 January 2016 19:36 (three years ago) link

Someone needs to leave an enticing trail of skin mags and lightboxes that lead into a deep hole where Greg Land can live out the rest of his days.

Reckless Recluse (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 12 January 2016 19:38 (three years ago) link

oh, so has marvel reality been reconstituted?

Mordy, Tuesday, 12 January 2016 19:40 (three years ago) link

Yeah, as of a couple months ago.

Reckless Recluse (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 12 January 2016 19:41 (three years ago) link

anybody wanna give me a capsule explanation? I've been reading on marvel unlimited and it's hard to follow .... or more accurately, hard to care about.

titles in the reconstituted reality have been shipping for a while

how the reality got reconstituted, that's yet to be seen

μpright mammal (mh), Tuesday, 12 January 2016 19:43 (three years ago) link

yeah I assume we find that out tomorrow

Very selfish, and very ironic (DJP), Tuesday, 12 January 2016 19:53 (three years ago) link

here's the dumb spoilers version of Secret War
~do not read if you really care, but the Hickman unraveling of it has been somewhat interesting~

- Doom and the Molecule Man, accompanied by Dr. Strange, bombed the Beyonders with a box full of Molecule Men they saved. They'd been killing them across all the realities after MM revealed he was a singular being with one body in each reality, and was basically a reboot bomb that would destroy them all at once. Doom had created a cult that was doing his bidding over decades, as the Beyonders have a grasp on everything except for time, which Doom could manipulate. Some of Doom's cult became heretics like the Black Swan character that showed up a couple years (?) back. They ended up unwittingly helping the Beyonders in their new plot to smash universes together.

- Following the destruction of everything (survived by two life rafts: one containing 616 Reed Richards and friends, another containing Ultimate Reed Richards and the remains of the Cabal) Doom pulled together remaining pieces of everything into his own world. He's God, Strange is his right hand man, an army of Thors is his police force. Sue, Franklin, and Val from two (maybe three) realities are his family. Castle Doom sits on top of Yggdrasil, the world tree. There's a wall surrounding much of the world to keep out the annihilation horde and zombies. There are different Houses, led by assorted characters, governing the different states of Battleworld.

- The life rafts open, Doom's deception is starting to show, rally the troops, etc etc. Eight years passed in Battleworld while the people in the rafts only experienced a couple days. Strange confronts Doom, gets killed.

- Not so secret: a handful of characters find out about a room below Doomstadt and figure out the Molecule Man is still there.

~end spoilers

μpright mammal (mh), Tuesday, 12 January 2016 19:54 (three years ago) link

Favorite moment: Molecule Man keeps complaining about being hungry, eats a hamburger

μpright mammal (mh), Tuesday, 12 January 2016 19:55 (three years ago) link

i haven't read an issue in months and none of those were spoilers to me which means... nothing has happened since like august??

Mordy, Tuesday, 12 January 2016 19:57 (three years ago) link

what a load of nonsense

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 12 January 2016 19:57 (three years ago) link

The main things that haven't been fully realized but will probably be integral are:
- Strange left a care package for anyone who knew the secret Illuminati password in case anything were to happen to him, and Black Panther/Namor found it
- Battleworld had no sun, until Doom got into it with Johnny Storm and exiled him to the sky. The sun's still shining on Battleworld for the minute.

μpright mammal (mh), Tuesday, 12 January 2016 19:58 (three years ago) link

it's a ridiculous Marvel comics event with all possible characters, of course it's complete nonsense!

at least now we get a Dr. Strange comic drawn by Chris Bachalo

μpright mammal (mh), Tuesday, 12 January 2016 20:01 (three years ago) link

ooh that is good news

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 12 January 2016 20:03 (three years ago) link

other good SW moment: Doom and Thanos doing all kinds of posturing about who is a better god

μpright mammal (mh), Tuesday, 12 January 2016 20:05 (three years ago) link

i had the same experience as mordy
i appreciate the help condensing it there though mh

I wasn't sure how many spoilers you guys wanted or how much plot summary was needed.

Since August it's only been issues 6/7/8, but 7/8 really are kind of a single split issue, and were mainly about troop rallying and the initial assault on Doom. There's a side story with an imprisoned Thanos finding out what happened to Ben Grimm, Val starts to figure things out, and Ultimate universe Reed acts shady, as usual

μpright mammal (mh), Tuesday, 12 January 2016 20:14 (three years ago) link

now I feel like I write for avclub, let me go wash my hands

μpright mammal (mh), Tuesday, 12 January 2016 20:15 (three years ago) link

it's genuinely useful!

Judging by the summary, it sounds like Marvel is doing what DC did 30 years ago with CoIE, conflating their multiverse into just one universe? If that's the case, I don't get it, and I never understood why DC did it either, because their multiverses are such a great source for story ideas and a testing ground for new concepts.

Thankfully these days the only Marvel comics I'm reading are fringe titles like Ms. Marvel and Squirrel Girl, which are not that much tied into all this craziness. (There was a tie-in Ms. Marvel, but all you needed to know to get it was that the world was about to end.) I'm still bitter about how Marvel pretty much ruined Avengers Academy by continuously mixing it into various line-wide events, even though it would've been great as a stand-alone title. Let's just hope the same won't happen to these too...

Tuomas, Wednesday, 13 January 2016 12:07 (three years ago) link

And I'm not saying Secret Wars might not be a good story, but I don't have the time or the money to read all these loads of comics you need to get it. (According to Internet sources you need to read to read 3 years of worth two Avengers titles by Hickman before this story to fully understand it?) I tried to do that with the Bendis crossovers of the previous, but after diminishing returns it just wasn't worth the effort.

For a while it was cool to follow the cosmic Marvel corner, because their crossovers were limited to two titles and some one-shots all written by Abnett & Lanning, so it was manageable and coherent. But that line ended with Thanos Imperative (which was actually as awesome and definite an conclusion as you're ever gonna get for a superhero title), and after that Guardians of Galaxy was given the typically mediocre Bendis treatment, so I decided I'm not gonna read Marvel titles that are heavily tied into 10 other titles, I just can't be arsed.

Tuomas, Wednesday, 13 January 2016 12:21 (three years ago) link

"you need to read 3 years worth of two Avengers titles"

Tuomas, Wednesday, 13 January 2016 12:22 (three years ago) link

You do need to read three years' worth of two Avengers titles, but they *are* really good comics, so it's worth it, even if it takes a while. It's easily the best crossover I've read since Invasion!, way way back, which is what got me into superhero comics in the first place.

The only disappointing loose end [spoiler] was the central Cap vs. Iron Man conflict being resolved so weakly at the end of the Avengers run. And Infinity was a bunch of wank, really.

I'm glad Marvel have stood their ground against the fanboy moaners and kept the same artist in spite of the delays. It *has* dissipated the momentum, but you know, who gives tbh.

Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 13 January 2016 14:16 (three years ago) link

Out of the new titles, Iron Man, Totally Awesome Hulk and Captain America are surprising highlights; Thor continues to be great; Ms Marvel continues to run out of steam; Dr Strange and Waid's Avengers started weak but have promise; everything by Soule and Lemire is dull as shit.

Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 13 January 2016 14:23 (three years ago) link

Granted, I'm still about a year's worth of material away from Secret Invasion, but it seems pretty clear that Hickman's Avengers titles were intended from the start as a preamble for something much much bigger. So I guess it's worth thinking of his Avengers run less as a perfunctory chore in the lead-up to Secret Wars than the opening chapters of a long story which ends with Secret Wars.

Professor Bworlph (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 13 January 2016 14:23 (three years ago) link

The new Devil Dinosaur series is pretty good and I like Weirdworld a lot.

suffeeciant attreebution (aldo), Wednesday, 13 January 2016 14:59 (three years ago) link

Right now, my favorite Marvel book is Doctor Strange

Very selfish, and very ironic (DJP), Wednesday, 13 January 2016 15:03 (three years ago) link

of course it is

only spoiler for today I will share is that the multiverse is still a thing ;)

μpright mammal (mh), Wednesday, 13 January 2016 15:30 (three years ago) link

have to say I share Tuomas's distaste for these UNIVERSE_SHATTERING-CONTINUITY-RESETTING-EVENTS but it seems like it's the only thing Marvel and DC can think of to do at this point, constant crises = sales + branding consistency, but it makes for shitty comics imo

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 13 January 2016 16:22 (three years ago) link

the thing is that they generally maintain for a decade or so in-between. short of starting over and heightening the stakes, after ten years of in-depth life with one character who can shoot lasers out of their eyes, what else do you do?

Copy rights, pleasing all star wars fans, hiring professionals. (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 13 January 2016 16:37 (three years ago) link

create new characters

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 13 January 2016 16:38 (three years ago) link

easy peasy

Very selfish, and very ironic (DJP), Wednesday, 13 January 2016 16:39 (three years ago) link

I mean Alan Moore's got a lot of crazy opinions but he is absolutely correct about the Big Two's creatively bankrupt/entirely financially motivated interest in just exploiting their existing properties rather than encouraging the development of new ones. Kirby didn't draw Fantastic Four for 50 years, he moved on and made up new shit, as was pretty much the case with every comics creator for decades. But now we just get reiterations and recreations of the same old shit, just shuffled around and reconstituted in the most confusing money-grubbing manner possible.

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 13 January 2016 16:40 (three years ago) link

cool

Very selfish, and very ironic (DJP), Wednesday, 13 January 2016 16:41 (three years ago) link

the alternative is that you get a good writer/artist team and pay them well and let them have creative control of their book and then build numbers so you have a legit following, a'la hawkeye, captain marvel, squirrel girl but that's not a long term solution and not good for the company. what team in their right mind would stay on a single book for a decade at the height of their creative peak when they don't own the characters? the few that are capable eventually become industries unto themselves and merge, borg-like with the company (bendis, byrne)

essentially, i think it's intractable and that the superhero universes will need to go through these weird entropic cycles for the rest of our lives.

Copy rights, pleasing all star wars fans, hiring professionals. (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 13 January 2016 16:44 (three years ago) link

short of starting over and heightening the stakes

tbh I preferred the direction DC were moving towards in the 80s with a kind of legacy/passing of the torch thing for major characters - the mantle of Flash being passed from Barry Allen to Wally West etc. You could still have the same basic premise and characteristics, but things could change or shift over time. But they long ago abandoned that tack, it's kinda too late to go back to something like that.

xp

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 13 January 2016 16:46 (three years ago) link

the only universal alternative these days appears to be emulation of the post grim'n'gritty Miller years... the 'more things in heaven and earth' philosophy founded by moore and filed to a razor by morrison wherein we never really understood these myths in a meaningful way to begin with, I WILL SHOW YOU THE LIFE OF THE MIND

perhaps not so strangely, my fave hero books are regressing back to sheldon meyer principles of slapstick, encyclopedia brown mysteries and character development. a "comics ARE for kids" comeback is one I'd welcome.

Copy rights, pleasing all star wars fans, hiring professionals. (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 13 January 2016 16:51 (three years ago) link

your suggestion of "torch passing" is being emulated in the xmen movie franchise and will likely make a serious comeback when the current avengers roster outdates their characters in 2022 or sooner. RDJ is in amazing shape for a fifty year old, but they're not gonna have a sixty year old iron man.

Copy rights, pleasing all star wars fans, hiring professionals. (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 13 January 2016 16:53 (three years ago) link

haha yeah that's true about the films, I wonder if that's gonna turn into a tale-wagging-the-dog kinda situation where the necessities of filmmaking impact the comics.

my fave hero books are regressing back to sheldon meyer principles of slapstick, encyclopedia brown mysteries and character development. a "comics ARE for kids" comeback is one I'd welcome

I'm totally in favor of this

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 13 January 2016 16:54 (three years ago) link

Shakes, a lot of your complaints seem to suggest that you haven't actually read any Marvel comics in a while. There is, for example, a whole lot of torch-passing going on of late.

Professor Bworlph (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 13 January 2016 16:57 (three years ago) link

young avengers and whatnot

Copy rights, pleasing all star wars fans, hiring professionals. (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 13 January 2016 16:58 (three years ago) link

xpostSheldon Mayer, not Meyer

I definitely recall Alan Moore saying, in the late 1980s, how he wished superhero writers wld look to C.C. Beck's Captain Marvel for inspiration, rather than Watchmen or Dark Knight

Chicamaw (Ward Fowler), Wednesday, 13 January 2016 16:59 (three years ago) link

that is true I gave up quite awhile ago. I flip through things on the shelf sometimes but the only floppies I buy are for my daughter (who mostly prefers DC's kids' comics as far as superheroes go) and um GI Joe vs. Transformers, which is incredible.

xp

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 13 January 2016 16:59 (three years ago) link

marvels' and dc's explicit attempt at bolstering a female readership is one of the more interesting currently running inside stories imo

Copy rights, pleasing all star wars fans, hiring professionals. (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 13 January 2016 17:00 (three years ago) link

I can't remember the last time I enjoyed a Marvel comic tbh, it's been decades

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 13 January 2016 17:00 (three years ago) link

no wait I liked GMoz's X-Men run

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 13 January 2016 17:02 (three years ago) link

there are several good marvel books being put out right now! not that i'm buying floppies ever again for the foreseeable future but you should get Marvel Unlimited (connectivity issues aside) and set aside an hour and you will be amazed!

Copy rights, pleasing all star wars fans, hiring professionals. (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 13 January 2016 17:02 (three years ago) link

I don't own any digital device I would want to read comics on tbh

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 13 January 2016 17:03 (three years ago) link

I will check out Squirrel Girl and Ms. Marvel though, thx to this thread (I thumbed through Hawkeye but was kinda eh about it)

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 13 January 2016 17:04 (three years ago) link

The fifteen years since Morrison's New X-Men have featured some of the best-written comics in Marvel's history. Arguably, and admittedly not across the board, but still.

Professor Bworlph (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 13 January 2016 17:10 (three years ago) link

i would also recommend howard the duck, mark waid's run on daredevil, basically all of the new star wars books, Nick Spencer's Ant Man, Groot, Dan Slott and Michael Allred's Silver Surfer, Warren Ellis' run on Moon Knight, phil noto's Black widow...

Copy rights, pleasing all star wars fans, hiring professionals. (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 13 January 2016 17:11 (three years ago) link

But, also, a lot of the comics they're putting out now don't resemble the stuff they were doing even 5-10 years ago. They're clearly trying to evolve.

Professor Bworlph (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 13 January 2016 17:12 (three years ago) link

If Morrisonesque superhero comics appeal to you, you could do a lot worse than Hickman's Marvel work.

Professor Bworlph (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 13 January 2016 17:27 (three years ago) link

Al Ewing's Mighty Avengers run has turned into the new The Ultimates, which seems pretty good so far. The core of the team includes the Blue Marvel, which had a kind of so-so "let's retcon a black superhero into the Marvel universe" origin but has really come into his own.

μpright mammal (mh), Wednesday, 13 January 2016 18:50 (three years ago) link

I think Marvel has mostly moved past the phase of comics where underserved characters are written with that as their main characteristic, which has been a problem.

μpright mammal (mh), Wednesday, 13 January 2016 18:53 (three years ago) link

I'm not enjoying The Ultimates as much as I enjoyed Mighty Avengers but I think that's partially because the team synergy with Hulkling, Wiccan and Squirrel Girl in the mix feels off

Very selfish, and very ironic (DJP), Wednesday, 13 January 2016 18:54 (three years ago) link

it's leaving plenty of room to grow, imo

μpright mammal (mh), Wednesday, 13 January 2016 18:59 (three years ago) link

I forgot to mention Al's New Avengers, it's excellent. The Ultimates, I haven't gotten into yet. On the whole I wish they'd kept Mighty Avengers happening. That was a great book.

Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 13 January 2016 23:58 (three years ago) link

MH, can you do one of your awesome summaries and explain me what happened in the last half of Secret Wars 9?

Chuck_Tatum, Thursday, 14 January 2016 00:00 (three years ago) link

Sure!

Doom thinks he's smart enough to spot a distraction, but apparently not, as Reed and the Maker aka Ultimate Reed make their way to Molecule Man's White Room (not to be confused with the set of THX-1138, the phoenix entity's white room, or a room with black curtains). Owen's still hungry, as no one remembers to feed the poor bastard. Doom realizes he's being played, and fights both Reeds until he makes the crucial mistake of being badgered into admitting that Richards would have been able to imagine a better world. MM snaps to attention and hands the reins to his power over, which obliterates Battleworld, to be remade in Richards' image. There's a neat splash page with Reed/Victor talking, which goes back to all their past interactions. Reed is a nurturer, Victor's a protector.

Outside the room, as the world ends, Black Panther sees the light in his non-gauntlet-clad hand light up, indicating a world-destroying event is imminent. He seems to embrace it. After the flash of light, he finds himself in Wakanda, which apparently has a space program. He calls to the students studying nearby, calling them Makers, which is apparently the buzzword of the day.

Flash forward to eight months later (jeez these people love time lapses and countdowns) to Peter Parker and Miles Morales swinging around town. Miles's dead mom is back due to the universe smashing, possibly just a wink to him being the only one who packs a lunch.

The main aftereffect of the whole shebang is back on the moon, where Franklin is using his powers of imagination to dream up whole universes. There was a neat bit in the Hickman FF issues where the future Franklin coached his younger self into adventures every night where he'd explore worlds he'd conjure up, so he's in practice. Hopefully he's better at imagining Marvel universes than that time he created that Heroes Reborn clusterfuck, but who knows, Liefeld-verse might be out there. Reed still has the power Molecule Man has given him, and he's launching these fully formed universes into the void between multiverses and embedding a MM in each, who hopefully aren't bombs anymore. His power should diminish with each launch since he's giving up MM copies?

Sue is not the copy from Battleworld, but the original 616 version recreated so she assumes Reed saved her when the raft broke up. It's up in the air how many people remember Battleworld, but it's probably just those who were on the life rafts that didn't die. Reed's more optimistic than he's been in a long time, and likens his outlook to a belief in life and expansion instead of death and entropy, summing up the diseased universe breaking and collapsing and only being held together by Victor as opposed to his new role as cosmic creator.

Dr. Doom gazes across his balcony in Latveria, pulls off his mask to reveal an unscarred face (he was still hideously disfigured in Battleworld, unable to imagine a world where life and creation could blossom) and laughs.

μpright mammal (mh), Thursday, 14 January 2016 01:37 (three years ago) link

At first I thought the gem that the Black Panther used as everything was winking out was yellow, the Time Gem, and he used it to go back to pre-Battleworld existence. But maybe it was orange, the Reality Gem, and he used it to reconstitute 616. From the coloring it's not entirely clear which gem it was.

WilliamC, Thursday, 14 January 2016 02:08 (three years ago) link

It's possible that the Doom piece of Battleworld is the center of the new 616 (or whatever) but as noted earlier in the series, the infinity gems only work in the universe of their origin, to the extent that Strange made sure Doom's castle was constructed on a world fragment where the gauntlet existed. So its power was limited in the scope of fixing things.

μpright mammal (mh), Thursday, 14 January 2016 02:30 (three years ago) link

something poetic about a white-hooded man being confronted by a black panther with his fist in the air

μpright mammal (mh), Thursday, 14 January 2016 03:01 (three years ago) link

Thanks MH!

It is depressing/existentially weird to think that almost everyone did, in fact, die, and that from now on all the versions of your Marvel favourites are just Reed and Franklin's recreations.

I've been haunted since I was a child by the idea that you "die" every night when you got to sleep - or, at least, that day's version of you dies, because you think and feel differently in the morning.

So - creepy. But I guess more satisfying/interesting than Superboy punching everyone different.

Chuck_Tatum, Thursday, 14 January 2016 10:41 (three years ago) link

two weeks pass...

Spider-Woman is the funnest thing going on currently.

if thou gaz long into the coombs, the coombs will also gaz into thee (WilliamC), Thursday, 28 January 2016 14:07 (three years ago) link

Funnier than Squirrel Girl?

Tuomas, Thursday, 28 January 2016 14:08 (three years ago) link

Haven't read SG. I'll give it a shot. Also, funnest not funniest.

if thou gaz long into the coombs, the coombs will also gaz into thee (WilliamC), Thursday, 28 January 2016 15:37 (three years ago) link

Oh sorry, I misread that.

Tuomas, Thursday, 28 January 2016 16:59 (three years ago) link

enh 'fun' applies to squirrel girl too. that galactus issue! so enjoyable.

salsa shark, Thursday, 28 January 2016 21:49 (three years ago) link

I don't like Squirrel Girl and I feel bad about it. (I think it just topped Tom's poll.) Sort of feels "amusing" but not actually "funny". Sorry, grouch.

Chuck_Tatum, Friday, 29 January 2016 13:18 (three years ago) link

I was blase on issue #1 (the first issue #1) of Squirrel Girl until I noticed the running captions at the bottom of every page; that really made the book for me.

its subtle brume (DJP), Friday, 29 January 2016 14:23 (three years ago) link

Ok, I will try again, again

Chuck_Tatum, Friday, 29 January 2016 15:08 (three years ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCivz_0fJNQ

ulysses, Monday, 8 February 2016 19:14 (three years ago) link

why were MTV's microphones so gigantic

Οὖτις, Monday, 8 February 2016 19:15 (three years ago) link

You know, I still think of the 90s if I type "Peter David's X-Factor issues" but the run in the 2000s when he returned, which ran quite a few issues, is pretty great.

μpright mammal (mh), Friday, 12 February 2016 02:40 (three years ago) link

I'm with you on that. His second run on X-Factor lasted way longer but that initial run is the one that's stuck with me.

maybe my clam is just more toxic (Old Lunch), Friday, 12 February 2016 03:02 (three years ago) link

So many mullets in that video! I don't know how I never saw those clips before. That would've aired at a time when I was both incessantly glued to MTV and in the initial throes of my Marvel obsession.

maybe my clam is just more toxic (Old Lunch), Friday, 12 February 2016 03:05 (three years ago) link

You should read some of that not so recent but 2000s run! I feel like he really did ponder what the characters are up to

μpright mammal (mh), Friday, 12 February 2016 03:38 (three years ago) link

I have read both runs (and like 95% of everything X-related, more generally). The second run started very strong but got more than a little aimless as it went on. I've also started but haven't finished All-New X-Factor which doesn't really resemble either earlier run in any meaningful sense and which hasn't exactly bowled me over thus far.

maybe my clam is just more toxic (Old Lunch), Friday, 12 February 2016 03:56 (three years ago) link

The 00s run is the one that starts with Jamie Madrox absorbing a dying clone and featured little notes on his family in the 'previously' page?

Andrew Farrell, Friday, 12 February 2016 10:12 (three years ago) link

his = PADs

Andrew Farrell, Friday, 12 February 2016 10:12 (three years ago) link

Yeah, that's the one.

maybe my clam is just more toxic (Old Lunch), Friday, 12 February 2016 11:31 (three years ago) link

I enjoyed the Secret War series he did where he mashed together his future X-Factor characters with his future Hulk characters

μpright mammal (mh), Friday, 12 February 2016 15:19 (three years ago) link

one month passes...

so they launched an 'all-new hawkeye' comic that actually ... had the exact setup of the preceding hawkeye comic, then after number five they launched another all-new hawkeye #1 which continues directly from #5

carly rae jetson (thomp), Monday, 21 March 2016 14:36 (three years ago) link

for something that I can get hundreds of thousands of issues to read without getting out of bed, marvel comics sure are inconvenient

carly rae jetson (thomp), Monday, 21 March 2016 14:37 (three years ago) link

Starting in June, every new issue of a Marvel comic will be branded as #1 in perpetuity.

Horse Throat (Old Lunch), Monday, 21 March 2016 14:39 (three years ago) link

The least they could do is some kinda '90s Superman numbering shit to keep things straight. I'm way on top of this stuff and it's confusing even for me. I cannot even imagine how casual fans make heads or tails of anything (like trying to keep track of the three volumes of Captain Marvel that have been released in the last couple of years, featuring Carol Danvers, who was previously named Ms. Marvel but who is not the Ms. Marvel who has had two separate volumes of her own comic within the same span of time).

Horse Throat (Old Lunch), Monday, 21 March 2016 14:43 (three years ago) link

the sad thing is that i could easily keep all this shit straight in my head when i was 15, when i'd have to travel for a couple of hours in each direction to buy my comics. now that i'm 35 and have access to 50 years of marvel to read anytime and anywhere, most of the time it's too much effort to work out which captain america or whatever i should be reading next and i just end up doing something else instead.

Upset by racist left wingers calling me an egg (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 21 March 2016 14:51 (three years ago) link

Well, twenty years ago, Marvel would actually continue issuing a single volume of a title for decades at a time rather than rebooting every six months. It was a much more streamlined thing. And they also put out about a third or a quarter of today's volume of titles.

Horse Throat (Old Lunch), Monday, 21 March 2016 14:55 (three years ago) link

does continually bringing out new #1s really have a positive effect on sales? i'd have guessed diminishing returns would have set in long ago but they keep doing it!

it doesn't help that marvel unlimited will frequently throw an additional spanner in the works by filing All-New Forbush Man as under 'A' rather than with all the other Forbush Man comics under 'F'. it took me like a year to realise that the new squirrel girl series was on there because it wasn't where i expected it to be under 'S'.

Upset by racist left wingers calling me an egg (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 21 March 2016 15:09 (three years ago) link

I honestly can't keep track of the verbiage for the line-wide rebranding. I don't know what's Marvel Now! and what's All-New Marvel Now! and what's Even Newer Marvel Tomorrow! and Super-Seriously Way-New Marvel Future!

Horse Throat (Old Lunch), Monday, 21 March 2016 15:17 (three years ago) link

also this hawkeye comic sucks

carly rae jetson (thomp), Monday, 21 March 2016 15:21 (three years ago) link

the thought of an all-new hawkguy without fraction/aja is deeply unappealing tbh

Upset by racist left wingers calling me an egg (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 21 March 2016 15:30 (three years ago) link

I wouldn't say the new Hawkeye sucks but it's definitely not as good as the Fraction/Aja/Wu iteration

i like to trump and i am crazy (DJP), Monday, 21 March 2016 15:35 (three years ago) link

in the first five the present day bits just felt like the same thing done less well (why are kate and clint being idiots?) and the kid stuff was just ...

carly rae jetson (thomp), Monday, 21 March 2016 15:57 (three years ago) link

We (me and my friends in middle school/high school times) used to think it was awesome that Thor was on issue 348 and capt America on issue 275 etc etc. it made us want to read those series more. I mean new titles were exciting too but those triple digit issue numbers were IMPOSING like the way hulk lifting 50 tons was imposing.

scarcity festival (Jon not Jon), Monday, 21 March 2016 18:04 (three years ago) link

Yeah, that's pretty OTM. But everything is Tweets and Vines now, who has time for long shit, man.

Horse Throat (Old Lunch), Monday, 21 March 2016 18:08 (three years ago) link

The first issue of Uncanny X-Men I picked up was #273. This was immediately on the heels of a crossover (X-Tinction Agenda, I believe), and all of the X-teams were hanging out at Xavier's. I had no idea who 90% of these people were, and there was a ton of them. Totally baffling, but also totally intriguing because I'd jumped into the middle of this story that had clearly been going on for a looooong time, and the fascination with digging into that backstory has kept me going for a couple of decades since in a way that I don't know I would've been as inclined to do had I first picked up, say Uncanny X-Men v.3 #4.

Horse Throat (Old Lunch), Monday, 21 March 2016 18:16 (three years ago) link

One of my first X-Men issues was during the X-Cutioner's Song crossover. I still don't understand what happened in that crossover.

μpright mammal (mh), Monday, 21 March 2016 18:21 (three years ago) link

there's just too much now. I would be more inclined to dip my toe in if series naming/numbering wasn't so bafflingly complicated.

Οὖτις, Monday, 21 March 2016 18:23 (three years ago) link

One hopes that shit will settle down in the wake of Secret Wars but we shall see.

Horse Throat (Old Lunch), Monday, 21 March 2016 18:26 (three years ago) link

damn, and I thought I was kind of a latecomer to Uncanny X-Men at #210

i like to trump and i am crazy (DJP), Monday, 21 March 2016 18:52 (three years ago) link

I wasn't going any deeper into comics than G.I. Joe at that point.

Horse Throat (Old Lunch), Monday, 21 March 2016 18:57 (three years ago) link

huh, #272 was my first issue of uncanny!

Upset by racist left wingers calling me an egg (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 21 March 2016 19:19 (three years ago) link

Weird! And that was still most of a year away from Claremont leaving and all of the other big changes and new series, and a number of months before Infinity Gauntlet (the thing that cemented my own Zombification), so I don't even know what that's about. Synergy!

Horse Throat (Old Lunch), Monday, 21 March 2016 19:25 (three years ago) link

first one i remember was #176; i remember i thought it was wild that cyclops was destroying the name of the book

ulysses, Monday, 21 March 2016 19:26 (three years ago) link

90% of my Marvel Universe collection at that point was culled from whatever random stuff I found in grab bags and on drugstore racks. Like one issue each of Alpha Flight, Micronauts: The New Voyages, New Warriors, etc.

Horse Throat (Old Lunch), Monday, 21 March 2016 19:38 (three years ago) link

Renumbering Ms Marvel - an actually popular IRL life comic book that sells to audiences beyond the usual nerds - is bananas. But renumbering other books, when a new creative team starts, doesn't strike me as an intrinsically terrible idea. Cutting off bullshit comics like Howard and Uncanny Avengers - I mean, those comics are bad anyway so it's hard to get worked up about.

The new Daredevil comic is also pretty awful compared to the last run, and it seems like they've continuity-fridged Waid's great female lawyer character (unless she's turned up now - I quit after the second issue.)

Chuck_Tatum, Monday, 21 March 2016 23:50 (three years ago) link

Also, I hate to mention Waid with DJP just five or six posts up, but the new Black Widow #1 was super fun, and read even better on the iPad guided view thingy.

Chuck_Tatum, Monday, 21 March 2016 23:53 (three years ago) link

I was just reading Waid's Fantastic Four. I gave up quicker than I was expecting to.

carly rae jetson (thomp), Tuesday, 22 March 2016 00:23 (three years ago) link

Seem to remember it peters out after the face scar story.

Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 22 March 2016 00:36 (three years ago) link

i gave up just after reed got it, you mean it was going to go downhill from there? terrifying

i remember reading a couple old issues -- human galactus, jack kirby god -- and quite liking them both. but the rest of the ideas seem less interesting and on a sentence by sentence level waid just can't write at all and they set up this whole 'they're explorers, adventurers!' thing in the first issue and then never do any exploring or adventuring and literally every single issue someone literally says 'we're not just a group of superheroes -- we're a family/'

carly rae jetson (thomp), Tuesday, 22 March 2016 01:09 (three years ago) link

oh, and mike wieringo's sue storm is just embarrassingly cheesecake all the time

carly rae jetson (thomp), Tuesday, 22 March 2016 01:11 (three years ago) link

For those keeping track of these things, a War of Kings/Rise & Fall of the Shi'ar Empire omnibus has just been solicited. So it looks like there will be omnibi of, well, at least most of the Abnett & Lanning cosmic saga.

I Can Say I Know We're Risin' Underneath The Blazin' Sky (Old Lunch), Thursday, 24 March 2016 01:48 (three years ago) link

i kind of appreciated the thread of the "time runs out" arc where sue storm was undercover with shield. in a different uniform and situation, i just kept thinking "damn, what a badass" which is, unfortunately, the opposite of what most FF writers do

μpright mammal (mh), Thursday, 24 March 2016 14:03 (three years ago) link

yeah that was great

i like to trump and i am crazy (DJP), Thursday, 24 March 2016 14:22 (three years ago) link

never really thought of it this way but if you think of Val's motivations being a result of her being Sue's daughter, not as some "dad vs. uncle doom / compromise" angle, she's an even stronger character

μpright mammal (mh), Thursday, 24 March 2016 14:28 (three years ago) link

was there a comic where sue was doing that or do you just mean the like six total pages of new/avengers where she features

carly rae jetson (thomp), Thursday, 24 March 2016 16:59 (three years ago) link

hey, I think it was seven

μpright mammal (mh), Thursday, 24 March 2016 18:17 (three years ago) link

Hickman's great with her in his FF run. The fact that she's basically secondary to Reed in Secret Wars was disappointing (although not surprising).

Chuck_Tatum, Friday, 25 March 2016 21:56 (three years ago) link

So is anything good from All New, All Different?

Frederik B, Sunday, 27 March 2016 19:31 (three years ago) link

Ultimates. Dr. Strange. Karnak.

The other decent stuff is continuing from before: Ant-Man, Thor, Ms. Marvel, etc.

Sadly, as with each reboot, almost all of it is hot garbage. The glut of Avengers/X-Men/Inhumans books area combo platter of suck now, which is a bummer.

EZ Snappin, Sunday, 27 March 2016 19:40 (three years ago) link

Overall it's weaker than their last relaunch - ball totally dropped on XMen and some of the Avengers books - but still miles ahead of DC. I like Al E's New Avengers a lot, moreso than Ultimates - although it's just been dropped into crossover hell. The Black Widow relaunch with Waid & Samnee was a great debut; at the same time Waid's Avengers book is some of his worst work in a while.

Chuck_Tatum, Sunday, 27 March 2016 22:35 (three years ago) link

And I'm enjoying Bendis's two Iron Man titles before the plot one inevitably collapses into stasis as is Bendis's way.

Chuck_Tatum, Sunday, 27 March 2016 22:36 (three years ago) link

Enjoying the heck out of:
The Ultimates
Spider-Woman
Vision
Thor
Spider-Man (Miles)
Karnak
Captain Marvel
Dr. Strange

2nd tier/s'OK:
Red Wolf
A.N.A.D. Avengers
All-New X-Men
Ms. Marvel
Moon Girl & Devil Dinosaur
A-Force
All-New Wolverine

Too soon to tell:
Black Widow
International Iron Man

Not really feelin' it:
Uncanny Inhumans
Old Man Logan
New Avengers

NO:
Uncanny X-Men

Yoshimi P-We's Playhouse (WilliamC), Monday, 28 March 2016 00:40 (three years ago) link

Add Daredevil to "not really feelin' it"

Yoshimi P-We's Playhouse (WilliamC), Monday, 28 March 2016 00:57 (three years ago) link

Oh yeah, Spider-Woman and Vision are both great and destined to end soon.

EZ Snappin, Monday, 28 March 2016 01:18 (three years ago) link

what did they do to the x men this time

carly rae jetson (thomp), Monday, 28 March 2016 03:58 (three years ago) link

Jesus william, do you own a comic shop or torrent or...?

i believe that (s)he is sincere (forksclovetofu), Monday, 28 March 2016 04:25 (three years ago) link

In a world that’s never hated or feared mutants more, there is only one constant: BIGGER THREATS REQUIRE MORE THREATENING X-MEN

oh goody

carly rae jetson (thomp), Monday, 28 March 2016 09:11 (three years ago) link

I think what's so confusing about this relaunch is that there seems to be no 'main books' now. In the last decade or so it has been the main Avengers writer who said the tone, no matter how bad Bendis became - and boy was he a self parody towards the end of his launch - if anything weird happened in a good book you were reading, you could go to the Avengers books to figure it out. But it seems the playing field is a lot more level now, and I'm confused as to what is going on.

That said, I checked out both New Avengers and Ultimates, and really, the trick is to read anything by Al Ewing, right? Those books begin pretty good, and picks up a lot of pieces from Hickmans run.

Frederik B, Tuesday, 29 March 2016 09:33 (three years ago) link

The idea that there should be a main book leading the entire Marvel line hasn't existed since the Bendis rehaul of the 00s, has it? In previous decades (like in the 80s, when I first started reading this stuff), there were some people who read all comics across the line, but a lot of people just focused on their favourite corner of the Marvel universe, like the X-books or Spidey books or Avengers or whatever. Starting from Secret Wars here were some line-wide crossovers, but mostly these different sub-franchises still kept to themselves. Which was great for someone like me, who loved the X-Men but didn't much care for Spider-Man.

So if Marvel comics would actually return to this previous model, where one writer/comic/storyline doesn't dominate the entire franchise, that'd be great for casual readers like me. I don't have the time, the money, nor the interest to follow most Marvel books, but in last the 10+ years I have been been reading a handful of niche titles... And one of the worst things about the whole franchise being directed by Bendis was that books which could've/should've been mostly self-standing were constantly interrupted by various mega-crossovers. This undermined their own storylines and made them hard to follow for people like me, who weren't interested in what was going on in the Bendis Avengers books. Thankfully the Abnett/Lanning cosmic comics mostly took place outside Earth, which helped them stay out of these crossovers (though there still was a pointless Civil War tie-in in Nova), but books like Avengers Academy weren't as lucky.

While this sort of "everything is connected" approach maybe makes sense from a marketing point of view (to understand what's going on in your favourite comic book, you have to read 5 other books every month), it's also effective in driving away casual readers like me, who might be interested in one or two montly book, but can't be arsed to read 15 different titles. IMO this "for superfans only" attitude is one of the main reasons why Marvel comics haven't been able to get more new readers despite the popularity of the Marvel movies.

Tuomas, Tuesday, 29 March 2016 10:08 (three years ago) link

It's a balance, really. I like reading New Avengers and seeing plot-threads from Young Avengers being picked up and developed. I loved it then, I like it now. I like seeing Pod and Sunspot further developed from what Hickman did with them. But then of course they'll mention something that happened in a book that I don't care about, such as Inhumanity or Sam Wilson: Captain America and I'll go 'ugh, enough with the continuity noodling!'

The good thing about late Bendis was how his changes were so stupid and superficial that you could get almost everything of it through reading an interview. 'Oh, so Norman Osborn is in charge of the Marvel Universe. And it's because he shot the queen skrull? Ok, I do not need to know anything else about this, please don't tell me more.' And then you could read on.

Frederik B, Tuesday, 29 March 2016 11:29 (three years ago) link

It's not just that you in order to read Book A you needed to know what was going on in Book B, C, and D, it's that the crossover plots of Books B, C, and D kept interrupting the plot of Book A. I mention Avengers Academy again, because it's such a good example of this. The writer, Christos Cage, was clearly interested in building long arcs and mythos of its own for the book, but because it had the word "Avengers" in the title, at least once a year it had to include a multi-issue tie-in to various linewide crossovers, which diminished Cage's ability to give the book it's own, unique feel and arc.

I too like the idea that character backstories and old plot arcs are referenced, that's what gives the whole Marvel universe a lived-in feel: everything and everyone has a history. But these references should be integrated of the dialogue, or at most there could be a one or two page flashback to previous events. But there shouldn't be multi-issue detours into crossovers plots you don't care about, which you have to wade through to continue reading the plot that got you interested in the book to begin with.

Tuomas, Tuesday, 29 March 2016 11:48 (three years ago) link

I think there are currently more niche titles, and a more diverse range of niches, than I can remember in a long time. Maybe not niche title groups, per se, but the niches are there.

I was just thinking the other day that Milligan's []X-Force[] was such a weird outlier at the time it was coming out but now it seems to fit right in with a lot of the stuff Marvel has been publishing lately.

You will notice a small sink where your sofa once was. (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 29 March 2016 13:28 (three years ago) link

More and more I'm realizing that I am more interested in who the writer is than I am in following specific characters; as a result, I am interested in Al Ewing's and G. Willow Wilson's books more than anything else.

i like to trump and i am crazy (DJP), Tuesday, 29 March 2016 15:02 (three years ago) link

otm

μpright mammal (mh), Tuesday, 29 March 2016 15:06 (three years ago) link

Yeah, definitely otm.

Frederik B, Tuesday, 29 March 2016 15:31 (three years ago) link

Yeah, which is why DC is so frustrating - they have *great* characters and fuck all good writers

Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 29 March 2016 16:05 (three years ago) link

Geoff Johns is supposedly doing a Green Lantern book again. We need aldo to check out all the Rebirth books again. That thread was one of the best on this board.

Frederik B, Tuesday, 29 March 2016 16:36 (three years ago) link

It's interesting how things have reversed between DC and Marvel... DC used to be the company with great writers who attracted readers outside the regular fanbase too (Morrison, Moore, Ostrander, Milligan, Robinson, Gaiman, Ennis, etc) whereas Marvel was more about devoted fans reading anything with their favourite characters (the X-Men and Spider-Man franchises being prime examples). But now it's pretty much the other way around.

Tuomas, Tuesday, 29 March 2016 17:39 (three years ago) link

Obviously Marvel had great writers before the 00s too, but they were more in the category of "fan favourites": continuity-heavy plotters like Claremont or Busiek or Stern who were loved by those already into superhero comics, but didn't have the cross-audience appeal of Moore or Gaiman or Morrison.

Tuomas, Tuesday, 29 March 2016 17:44 (three years ago) link

It's mostly hit and miss? Marvel's cultivated writers more since 2000, which is the same point where Axel Alonso jumped ship from editing Vertigo titles to work there. I think editorial gets short shrift when it comes to attributing success, but in terms of which writers/artists are cultivated it's more painfully obvious when they're less competent.

DC went through years of Karen Berger transitioning out of her role as part of Vertigo and it seems like their line has become weaker every year.

μpright mammal (mh), Tuesday, 29 March 2016 18:55 (three years ago) link

This shift hugely attributable to editorial IMO

scarcity festival (Jon not Jon), Tuesday, 29 March 2016 18:58 (three years ago) link

I honestly have no idea who is holding the reins at DC editorial but every title I've enjoyed seems to have succeeded despite the greater editorial direction, not because of it

μpright mammal (mh), Tuesday, 29 March 2016 18:59 (three years ago) link

Marvel's MO after the independent spinout of the early 90s (Image etc) seemed to be to pull in even tighter and have editorial dictate really mediocre story ideas while leaning on people who were willing to be their workhorses

μpright mammal (mh), Tuesday, 29 March 2016 19:01 (three years ago) link

x-men titles kind of had this soap opera-lite feel that was indebted to claremont (although with less expository dialogue) that had only occasional entertaining moments but a lot of issues

μpright mammal (mh), Tuesday, 29 March 2016 19:10 (three years ago) link

xxpost Last I knew, Bob Harras was running things (into the ground) at DC. Which, if you remember his stewardship of Marvel in the mid-'90s, lends some pretty heavy credence to your comments re: editorial.

You will notice a small sink where your sofa once was. (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 29 March 2016 19:30 (three years ago) link

good ol' Bob

μpright mammal (mh), Tuesday, 29 March 2016 19:31 (three years ago) link

oh is THAT how Lobdell got a DC gig?

i like to trump and i am crazy (DJP), Tuesday, 29 March 2016 19:36 (three years ago) link

what, you didn't notice the magic of Harras/Lobdell/Nicieza being at DC?

μpright mammal (mh), Tuesday, 29 March 2016 19:38 (three years ago) link

lol at wikipedia's list of "key people" at DC

Dan DiDio (Co-Publisher)
Jim Lee (Co-Publisher)
Bob Harras (Editor In Chief)
Geoff Johns (Chief Creative Officer)

μpright mammal (mh), Tuesday, 29 March 2016 19:43 (three years ago) link

same list also appears on wikipedia as an example of the peter principle

Upset by racist left wingers calling me an egg (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 29 March 2016 20:14 (three years ago) link

didio is garbage

scarcity festival (Jon not Jon), Tuesday, 29 March 2016 21:23 (three years ago) link

marvel banished jeph loeb to marvel studios, but i am unsure which bad decisions there are his

μpright mammal (mh), Tuesday, 29 March 2016 21:24 (three years ago) link

i've always assumed loeb is behind any bad decisions marvel studios make

Upset by racist left wingers calling me an egg (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 29 March 2016 21:35 (three years ago) link

Thankfully, I don't think his is a creative role currently. Long may he remain exactly where he's at.

You will notice a small sink where your sofa once was. (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 30 March 2016 01:12 (three years ago) link

Not going to hugely disagree with the hits and misses people have mentioned above. I had really high hopes for Moon Girl but it's kind of meandering. I quite like the Parker Spidey book in Cuba/Latin America but I might be alone. ChoHulk is better than it deserves to be and the Patsy Walker book is at least as good as Squirrel Girl. Bizarrely, both the Venom and Carnage books are 100x as good as you'd expect. Illuminati is a frustrating read but is actually quite entertaining and Angela is imo superior in an awful lot of ways to LadyThor. Also Hercules not as much fun as when it was Hulk iykwim but worth a look. Oh, and Al's Contest of Champions thing is a throwaway delight.

Pleasant Hill is not actively bad. The Jim Starling cosmic thing is a giant pile of crap. And it's hard to work out which is the worst X-Men book but perhaps Greg Land saves Uncanny from that fate. Now THAT'S damning with faint praise.

Anyway, so Steve Rogers. Who didn't see that coming?

suffeeciant attreebution (aldo), Sunday, 3 April 2016 13:40 (three years ago) link

PS I could be tempted to do a Rebirth thread.

suffeeciant attreebution (aldo), Sunday, 3 April 2016 13:40 (three years ago) link

i'm always gonna be six months back with Marvel Unlimited... so the best things going six months back are the star wars books.

ulysses, Sunday, 3 April 2016 16:44 (three years ago) link

Aldo, please do a Rebirth thread.

EZ Snappin, Sunday, 3 April 2016 17:00 (three years ago) link

ulysses is not far off the mark, the Star Wars books (Vader especially) are some of the better things Marvel has published recently.

suffeeciant attreebution (aldo), Sunday, 3 April 2016 17:09 (three years ago) link

Yeah the two main Star Wars books are really aceing it since the big crossover.

Also - a great Spidey comic from Tumblr (!)
http://hannahblumenreich.tumblr.com/post/141936003298/that-take-out-is-going-to-be-freezing-by-the-time

Chuck_Tatum, Sunday, 3 April 2016 19:03 (three years ago) link

Aldo, please do rebirth!!!!!!!!!!

My god, do you want to actually kill the man?

I am very inteligent and dicipline boy (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 6 April 2016 12:58 (three years ago) link

Worth it

Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 6 April 2016 13:08 (three years ago) link

kudos to Al for this American Kaiju plot, I'm laughing

μpright mammal (mh), Wednesday, 6 April 2016 13:45 (three years ago) link

Coates's Black Panther selling huge number in some parts of the country (like 300 copies in a shop that normally sells 75 Amazing Spider-Mans per issue)l, I did okay but I'm not exactly shocked that TNC didn't generate a rush in the buckle of the Bible Belt.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Thursday, 7 April 2016 06:52 (three years ago) link

it's... readable? Little flowery on the prose. It's a single issue, hardly fair to judge anyone based on that.

ulysses, Thursday, 7 April 2016 07:04 (three years ago) link

$5 for 23pp, Black Panther is for the people

glandular lansbury (sic), Thursday, 7 April 2016 07:42 (three years ago) link

It¨s good. It's not earthshaking or twist filled, or unusual like something like The Vision. But it's thoughtful, well plotted, and some of the artwork is pretty awesome. The scene with the two lovers in silhouette was beautiful.

Frederik B, Thursday, 7 April 2016 07:43 (three years ago) link

Little flowery on the prose

Don McGregor tribute?

Chicamaw (Ward Fowler), Thursday, 7 April 2016 07:56 (three years ago) link

you tell me
http://i.imgur.com/jVUruU1.png

ulysses, Thursday, 7 April 2016 08:03 (three years ago) link

btw, on thread recommendation I read the first six issues of Tom King's The Vision... it's great!

ulysses, Thursday, 7 April 2016 08:31 (three years ago) link

lol "beautiful"

why can't the internet tell me if the Tom King in comics from 2016 is the Tom King in comics from the 90s

glandular lansbury (sic), Thursday, 7 April 2016 09:56 (three years ago) link

Why is that lol?

Frederik B, Thursday, 7 April 2016 10:02 (three years ago) link

I mean, I doubt it, but I'd like to think DC finally caught on to the talent behind Snookums, That Loveable Transvestite

lol because the panel as posted by forks was unremarkable bigtwo drawing with block computer colouring (and clunky typing over the top, not that that's on Stelfreeze &/or whoever else, but it's still part of the panel)

glandular lansbury (sic), Thursday, 7 April 2016 10:40 (three years ago) link

It's not the most original drawing, no, and nothing in the scene is. But I still think it's beautiful. And it's not normally how the bigtwo draws black skin, I don't think, not to speak of how scenes with two half nude lesbians tend to be drawn.

Frederik B, Thursday, 7 April 2016 12:07 (three years ago) link

Marvel probably should lead with the 'two half nude lesbians' in those parts of the country where TNC isn't a hook.

My Whole Existence Is Flan (Old Lunch), Thursday, 7 April 2016 12:13 (three years ago) link

They've been discussed quite a bit in the pre-release interviews... Though mostly it was TNC talking with himself about his discomfort with the 'virgin warrior' concept of the dora milaje, how to deal with male gaze and that most of the creative team is male. Probably not the best strategy.

Frederik B, Thursday, 7 April 2016 12:19 (three years ago) link

I'd be hella psyched if The Vision tom king was pal-yat-chee tom king

scarcity festival (Jon not Jon), Thursday, 7 April 2016 19:25 (three years ago) link

different guy: https://www.facebook.com/tomkingauthor

ulysses, Thursday, 7 April 2016 22:15 (three years ago) link

that doesn't say he is, he could have gone bald in the 23+* years since Snookums

*wasn't it originally a Daily Texan strip, like Chris Ware and Robert Rodriguez, before Pal-Yat-Chee?

glandular lansbury (sic), Thursday, 7 April 2016 22:41 (three years ago) link

he's an ex CIA operative. I think he's been busy with other things.

ulysses, Thursday, 7 April 2016 22:43 (three years ago) link

Explains why he took a couple of decades off comics.

glandular lansbury (sic), Friday, 8 April 2016 00:17 (three years ago) link

The world needs to laugh!

Andrew Farrell, Friday, 8 April 2016 00:27 (three years ago) link

I think daily Texan tom King is a storyboarder now

scarcity festival (Jon not Jon), Friday, 8 April 2016 00:30 (three years ago) link

I finally switched from subscribing to single issues to subscribing to Marvel’s 5-issue paperbacks. Still reading: Doctor Strange, Howard the Duck, Ms. Marvel, and Squirrel Girl.

Allen (etaeoe), Sunday, 10 April 2016 21:49 (three years ago) link

It occurred to me today: does every Marvel superhero team now have someone who can teleport or at least some sort of teleportation device?

μpright mammal (mh), Thursday, 14 April 2016 02:29 (three years ago) link

lockjaw and ms marvel are so good together - reminds me of kitty pryde and lockjaw

a lad of balls (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 14 April 2016 10:46 (three years ago) link

uh, lockheed i mean. never realised how similar their names are before!

a lad of balls (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 14 April 2016 10:47 (three years ago) link

Speaking of Marvel names with "lock" in htem, I only recently found out why Psylocke was thus named... Apparently it's an incredibly convoluted pun:

What does a psyche open?
A psylock.

Tuomas, Thursday, 14 April 2016 11:56 (three years ago) link

Yeeesh. Wasn't she created by Delano? That seems excessively punny for him.

I Pith On Your Quip (Old Lunch), Thursday, 14 April 2016 12:04 (three years ago) link

I'm pretty sure Claremont created her as a character, though maybe not the name? Betsy Braddock has been around since the old Cap Britain comics of the 70s that Claremont wrote, but I'm not sure when they started calling her Psylocke... Maybe that was Delano?

Tuomas, Thursday, 14 April 2016 12:07 (three years ago) link

Seems it was Claremont who chose the name too:

In New Mutants Annual #2 (1986), Claremont integrated Braddock into the X-Men franchise. The story sees her abducted to the Mojoverse, where she is subjected to brainwashing, fitted with bionic eyes, and referred to as "the Psylocke" for the first time.

That's totally a Claremontian pun, though IIRC that New Mutants Annual (or any other comic by Claremont) doesn't actually explain it as a pun, you're supposed to figure it out yourself.

Tuomas, Thursday, 14 April 2016 12:11 (three years ago) link

Yeah, I never read or heard that before. And you are correct, she was in the old Captain Britain comics, but she was just Brian's normal human sister and I think Delano was the one who made her a mutant.

I Pith On Your Quip (Old Lunch), Thursday, 14 April 2016 13:03 (three years ago) link

yeah, that sounds correct to me. delano and alan davis also scarred me for life when i was like eight and read the captain britain story where she's blinded by slaymaster:

http://www.littlestuffedbull.com/images/2013/psylocke/capbritain2-13c.jpg

that final panel is indelible in my mind

a lad of balls (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 14 April 2016 13:07 (three years ago) link

This conversation has made me go back through Betsy's history and MAN did a lot of bizarre, terrible things happen to her

i like to trump and i am crazy (DJP), Thursday, 14 April 2016 13:32 (three years ago) link

yeah, even by x-men standards she's been through some shit

a lad of balls (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 14 April 2016 13:34 (three years ago) link

Was it Slaymaster who possessed or posed as Brian and (at least) attempted to rape Betsy?

I Pith On Your Quip (Old Lunch), Thursday, 14 April 2016 13:35 (three years ago) link

no, i think that was a brian from an alternate reality - that panel of the assault is another that fucked me up as a kid

a lad of balls (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 14 April 2016 13:38 (three years ago) link

That was Kaptain Briton: http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Byron_Bra-Dhok_(Earth-794)

i like to trump and i am crazy (DJP), Thursday, 14 April 2016 13:39 (three years ago) link

Gah, can't even imagine reading that as a kid. That was some fucked up shit to see as an adult.

I Pith On Your Quip (Old Lunch), Thursday, 14 April 2016 13:41 (three years ago) link

YUP. That's one of the things where I was reading the history and went "wait WHAT THE FUCK"

i like to trump and i am crazy (DJP), Thursday, 14 April 2016 13:44 (three years ago) link

"hey guys, Betsy had to kill somebody again"

μpright mammal (mh), Thursday, 14 April 2016 13:53 (three years ago) link

Every now and then the thought pops into my head that Psylocke isn't as murderous as the other X-Force characters and I wonder about her inclusion until I remember her actual backstory as opposed to only remembering how she was drawn pre-Siege Perilous

i like to trump and i am crazy (DJP), Thursday, 14 April 2016 14:02 (three years ago) link

I was thinking the other day about Rick Remender's additions to the mutant/Avengers stories and all told, I think it worked pretty well? He grabbed The World from Morrison's run, added the character of Father, and then managed to spin it into at least two different stories -- the accelerated time X-Force/Apocalypse thing, and the android ascension, tied to the original Human Torch, story in the Secret Avengers plot. And then he kind of merged the two -- with Deathloks!

μpright mammal (mh), Thursday, 14 April 2016 14:50 (three years ago) link

for all the (deserved IMO) press Hickman gets, Remender did some stuff that was equally impressive in that same time frame IMO

i like to trump and i am crazy (DJP), Thursday, 14 April 2016 15:05 (three years ago) link

i'm way behind on avengers / x-men but that sounds agreeably batshit

I really liked remender's 'captain America gains a son in another dimension' arc

a lad of balls (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 14 April 2016 15:08 (three years ago) link

Yes. The first stretch of his Marvel Now! Cap and Uncanny Avengers runs are all the Remender I've read, somehow. Oh, and his brief Secret Avengers run! That was good, too. I guess he's done with Marvel for the time being?

I Pith On Your Quip (Old Lunch), Thursday, 14 April 2016 15:13 (three years ago) link

I think Hickman is a bit better at that thing, at creating his own little fiefdom over several titles with Manifolds, Doctor Dooms, Sols Hammers, and all that. But yeah, Remender definitely was good at it as well. I did not read anything he did after AvX, though, is it good?

Gillen's work with Loki is up there as well.

Frederik B, Thursday, 14 April 2016 15:16 (three years ago) link

I'm still very impressed with the worldbuilding in Pak's Planet Hulk et al. When I first saw the attendant handbook, it seemed clear that the dude had spent like the five previous years prepping his Hulk pitch.

I Pith On Your Quip (Old Lunch), Thursday, 14 April 2016 15:22 (three years ago) link

And Abnett and Lanning's cosmic stuff! It's been a good era for big stories.

I Pith On Your Quip (Old Lunch), Thursday, 14 April 2016 15:23 (three years ago) link

Axis was ehhh, but I can let that go

μpright mammal (mh), Thursday, 14 April 2016 15:26 (three years ago) link

The big problem with Axis was that it went on for waaaay too long (and I think everyone forgot that Havok was still inverted before the universe blew up)

i like to trump and i am crazy (DJP), Thursday, 14 April 2016 15:29 (three years ago) link

the inversion thing was pretty half-assed, I have the feeling it was pitched and a few projects (Iron Man, Carnage) were spun off, a few characters were conveniently changed for use in different titles (Sabretooth) and the rest of it was just kind of hand-wavey

μpright mammal (mh), Thursday, 14 April 2016 15:33 (three years ago) link

I also thought it was incredibly poor timing to have the mantle of Captain America pass over to Sam Wilson just in time to turn him into an honorless, murdering bastard as part of a widely-hyped company-wide crossover.

i like to trump and i am crazy (DJP), Thursday, 14 April 2016 15:35 (three years ago) link

very bad

μpright mammal (mh), Thursday, 14 April 2016 15:36 (three years ago) link

I mean, between that and launching a limited series by Jeph Loeb titled "CAPTAIN AMERICA: WHITE" it was an amazing time for ill-advised editorial direction

μpright mammal (mh), Thursday, 14 April 2016 15:37 (three years ago) link

I stared at that solicitation for so long, trying to convince myself it was a joke

i like to trump and i am crazy (DJP), Thursday, 14 April 2016 15:38 (three years ago) link

Remender's X-FORCE was great but I can't believe you guys liked anything else he touched. Total blind squirrel finding a nut situation.

EZ Snappin, Thursday, 14 April 2016 15:38 (three years ago) link

His Uncanny Avengers didn't end well but I enjoyed most of it. It was also MILES BETTER than the current incarnation, which appears to assume that everyone involved has had serious head trauma that has left them unable to not make the shittiest possible choice for any given situation.

i like to trump and i am crazy (DJP), Thursday, 14 April 2016 15:43 (three years ago) link

Yeah, compared to the shit dribble of the current Avengers continuum its passable but that's a damn low bar.

EZ Snappin, Thursday, 14 April 2016 15:45 (three years ago) link

Yeah, tried a few Remender issues of the Avengers (storyline involving the Red Skull?), and they weren't for me at all - thought they were badly written just in terms of the dialogue/captions, never mind the clunky plotting, and he didn't seem to have any real feel for the characters at all (but I'm a Bendis Avengers stan, which seems to put me v much in the minority here)

Chicamaw (Ward Fowler), Thursday, 14 April 2016 15:47 (three years ago) link

Btw who other than Al Ewing is doing this world building stuff at the moment?

Frederik B, Thursday, 14 April 2016 15:48 (three years ago) link

The following, from the letters page of this month's All New Hawkeye, maybe sums up what a clusterfuck Marvel is just now.

So there you have it, the end of All New Hawkeye by Jeff Lemire and Ramon Perez. I know what you're thinking: "What?! They can't go!! Those guys just got here!!" I know, I know... I had the same reaction at first. Chill. Though this is technically issue #6 of our series, it's really more like part 11 of an (almost) yearlong story that Jeff and aragon wanted to tell.

If you've been reading Hawkeye since Matt Fraction and David Aja's run...or if you've been reading since Jeff and Ramon's first issue... or if you've been reading since their second first issue... we thank you for joining us for this ride.

suffeeciant attreebution (aldo), Monday, 25 April 2016 20:04 (three years ago) link

Not sure you know, but that Loeb series fits in with other origin tales he has done with Tim Sale. The Hulk one is Green, the Spider-man is Blue and the Daredevil was Yellow (as in his original costume.). There was a first issue of that Cap series published like 5 years ago, so Sale must have finally finished the rest.

earlnash, Monday, 25 April 2016 21:07 (three years ago) link

I guess there was a "preview issue" in 2008, but yeah, I think we're all aware it's a thematic thing

The fact they released the real series years later implies it's not really contingent on continuity and could be released at any time which actually kind of makes it _worse_ that they decided the right time to release it was when the titular Captain America was a black man

it just sat around for eight years, couldn't it wait another year or so?

μpright mammal (mh), Monday, 25 April 2016 21:10 (three years ago) link

Or been burned in a heap along with everything else Loeb ever wrote? Is that really too much to ask?

Your Ass Is Grass And I Will Mow It With My Face (Old Lunch), Monday, 25 April 2016 21:54 (three years ago) link

can we have an international ilx meetup to burn our copies of jeph loeb comics? i feel like it'd be theraputic for all of us

wario testino (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 26 April 2016 13:45 (three years ago) link

I might not have any, at least in print

μpright mammal (mh), Tuesday, 26 April 2016 13:47 (three years ago) link

I have at least the first three of his Challengers Of The Unknown miniseries, nothing since that

glandular lansbury (sic), Tuesday, 26 April 2016 13:50 (three years ago) link

i can lend you some for the occasion, no problem

wario testino (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 26 April 2016 13:50 (three years ago) link

Cannot unsee Ultimatum

Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 26 April 2016 14:28 (three years ago) link

Burn my eyes

Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 26 April 2016 14:28 (three years ago) link

TASTES LIKE CHICKEN

Your Ass Is Grass And I Will Mow It With My Face (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 26 April 2016 14:35 (three years ago) link

I feel like the comics he's best known for are mostly just origin retellings or by-the-numbers plots that drop in the most well-known allies/villains with the "this is character X who acts in this way and progresses the plot by doing what they always do, in a way that ties back to the main antagonist"

which is, to be fair, a lot of non-Loeb comics but it really highlights how quickly he goes off the rails when he doesn't retell stories

μpright mammal (mh), Tuesday, 26 April 2016 14:37 (three years ago) link

Old Lunch otm

μpright mammal (mh), Tuesday, 26 April 2016 14:37 (three years ago) link

I will reiterate the props I've formerly given to Loeb for Ultimate X, which was good (with beautiful Art Adams art) and which redeemed like .00001% of the soul he tarnished so thoroughly by writing Ultimatum.

Your Ass Is Grass And I Will Mow It With My Face (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 26 April 2016 14:43 (three years ago) link

(It was more than a little jarring to see Loeb briefly on the rails and realize that he can actually write competently if he wants to. But I guess trying is hard or something.)

Your Ass Is Grass And I Will Mow It With My Face (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 26 April 2016 14:45 (three years ago) link

turns out I've been Loeb-free for 25 years (had seen Teen Wolf previously)

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2010/05/11/comics-you-should-own-flashback-challengers-of-the-unknown-1-8/

those Baker and Hempel covers tho

glandular lansbury (sic), Tuesday, 26 April 2016 15:58 (three years ago) link

Never forget that Loeb wrote Commando. Yes, the Schwarzenegger movie.

Your Ass Is Grass And I Will Mow It With My Face (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 26 April 2016 16:39 (three years ago) link

the musculature and body poses of both cap and falcon is absolutely kraken me up here
http://i.cdn.turner.com/tntla/images/portal/10108/37298/75244/2412122.jpg

ulysses, Friday, 29 April 2016 19:03 (three years ago) link

like how deep is the spandex into the creases of those guys quads

ulysses, Friday, 29 April 2016 19:03 (three years ago) link

Good ol' Bart Sears. I remember when he was the 'realistic' alternative in a sea of Liefeld-a-likes.

I wonder what caused Sam's muscles to start melting.

Your Ass Is Grass And I Will Mow It With My Face (Old Lunch), Friday, 29 April 2016 21:56 (three years ago) link

Justice League Europe was one of the first superhero comics I ever bought, so I'll always have time for Bart Sears, and his steroidal duck faces.

Chuck_Tatum, Friday, 29 April 2016 23:18 (three years ago) link

This guy is like the Todd Van Der Werff of awful comics writing:

http://www.vulture.com/2016/04/captain-america-takedown-apology.html#

Chuck_Tatum, Friday, 6 May 2016 16:25 (three years ago) link

here's a pair of pages from Marvel's Planned Parenthood promotional comic from 1976, "The Amazing Spider Man vs The Prodigy".
Different times.
http://i.imgur.com/4XVl0mg.png

ulysses, Friday, 13 May 2016 14:57 (three years ago) link

I just got a vivid image of Spidey swinging into a music venue and pulling the plug on a mind control device just before the Prodigy launched into their new hit single, 'Knock My Bitch Up'.

Peanut Duck (Old Lunch), Friday, 13 May 2016 15:07 (three years ago) link

I scanned across that image for "twisted firestarter", didn't find it, closed tab

i like to trump and i am crazy (DJP), Friday, 13 May 2016 15:09 (three years ago) link

spidey discovers the contemporary pro life conservative agenda
http://i.imgur.com/IL7Moz0.png

ulysses, Friday, 13 May 2016 15:15 (three years ago) link

Just read Millar's Civil War for the first time - the digital version was on sale. What an incredible piece of garbage! I guess I shouldn't have been surprised. But still -- baffled why anyone would choose to film it -- the story just turns all your faves into gigantic murdering arseholes. (I assume the movie is much better.)

Chuck_Tatum, Friday, 13 May 2016 15:45 (three years ago) link

This guy is like the Todd Van Der Werff of awful comics writing:

clicked through just long enough to check it was Abraham Riesman

glandular lansbury (sic), Friday, 13 May 2016 15:56 (three years ago) link

tbf, he's an even worse television writer

glandular lansbury (sic), Friday, 13 May 2016 15:56 (three years ago) link

Just read Millar's Civil War for the first time - the digital version was on sale. What an incredible piece of garbage! I guess I shouldn't have been surprised. But still -- baffled why anyone would choose to film it -- the story just turns all your faves into gigantic murdering arseholes. (I assume the movie is much better.)

― Chuck_Tatum, Friday, May 13, 2016 4:45 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

That's Millar's shtick all over, isn't it. Everyone's either a psychotic arsehole or a victim of needless cruelty.

The film is nothing like that, thankfully.

Pheeel, Saturday, 14 May 2016 17:22 (three years ago) link

to be fair to millar, sometimes they're a psychotic arsehole AND a victim of needless cruelty

(main prostitute from Game Of Thrones) (bizarro gazzara), Sunday, 15 May 2016 17:13 (three years ago) link

I think my perspective on Civil War is salvaged somewhat by having read the entire crossover, of which Millar's contribution was just a small piece.

Peanut Duck (Old Lunch), Sunday, 15 May 2016 17:28 (three years ago) link

It's a solid concept, and the art is pretty decent at humanising Millar's childish dialogue, but so much of it - Robot Thor killing Goliath, for example, is proper "what were they fucking thinking?!?" without the saving grace of being at least interestingly batshit.

Chuck_Tatum, Sunday, 15 May 2016 19:29 (three years ago) link

ugh, I just remembered speedball's s&m makeover :(

(main prostitute from Game Of Thrones) (bizarro gazzara), Sunday, 15 May 2016 21:14 (three years ago) link

that was actually the character Voldo from the SoulCalibur video game series

μpright mammal (mh), Sunday, 15 May 2016 21:16 (three years ago) link

lol

(main prostitute from Game Of Thrones) (bizarro gazzara), Sunday, 15 May 2016 21:28 (three years ago) link

It's kinda weird that they chose Millar to write the central book in a huge crossover, given that his contributions to the Marvel Universe proper at that point consisted of his Marvel Knights Spider-Man book and a brief run on Wolverine.

Peanut Duck (Old Lunch), Sunday, 15 May 2016 22:16 (three years ago) link

Ostrander had written nothing for DC before Legends, and Byrne had drawn one issue of a Batman miniseries in 1980. Mantlo had written nothing for DC, Sears had drawn nothing for DC, and McFarlane had done a few months on Infinity Inc before Invasion!. It works fine if the people are any good at what they do.

As further illustration of this principle, Brad Meltzer had written one six-month run on Green Arrow before Identity Crisis.

glandular lansbury (sic), Sunday, 15 May 2016 22:51 (three years ago) link

Yeah, but there's no accounting for the stuff those weirdos at DC do.

Peanut Duck (Old Lunch), Monday, 16 May 2016 01:57 (three years ago) link

Old Lunch sums up what I was thinking, succinctly

μpright mammal (mh), Monday, 16 May 2016 02:10 (three years ago) link

This is such a fugly cover. Luke Cage looks like Rick Ross and WTF is up with Iron Fist's eye.

http://nerdist.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Power-Man-and-Iron-Fist-Cover.jpg

earlnash, Monday, 16 May 2016 05:02 (three years ago) link

0_o

(main prostitute from Game Of Thrones) (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 16 May 2016 08:18 (three years ago) link

I like it! Luke has a weird forehead tumour tho

Chuck_Tatum, Monday, 16 May 2016 08:42 (three years ago) link

I like it too. There's some cartoonish exaggeration, but the artist clearly knows what he'd doing, it's not like the exaggeration comes from Liefeldian ineptitude. IMO it's cool that in recent years Marvel has allowed more cartoonish/non-realistic art styles to be used with their characters instead of just sticking to a realistic house style.

Tuomas, Monday, 16 May 2016 10:35 (three years ago) link

OTM, I was just thinking the same yesterday. Except when the artist in question mixes a cartoonish/non-realistic art style with Liefeldian ineptitude and has been effing ubiquitous for the past decade (*coughhumbertoramoscough*).

Peanut Duck (Old Lunch), Monday, 16 May 2016 15:33 (three years ago) link

sometimes I love Ramos, sometimes I think he is the worst thing in the world

i like to trump and i am crazy (DJP), Monday, 16 May 2016 15:40 (three years ago) link

I think the thing of his I enjoyed most was DV8

i like to trump and i am crazy (DJP), Monday, 16 May 2016 15:41 (three years ago) link

Ramos and Chris Bachalo are both kind of indistinguishably annoying to read - both dreadful at panel layouts, and everyone has a pointy head

Chuck_Tatum, Monday, 16 May 2016 16:17 (three years ago) link

I will not allow bad things to be said about Chris Bachalo!

μpright mammal (mh), Monday, 16 May 2016 19:43 (three years ago) link

Bachalo's layouts are sometimes incoherent, though

i like to trump and i am crazy (DJP), Monday, 16 May 2016 19:50 (three years ago) link

bachalo is a terrible storyteller but i've always liked his style

(main prostitute from Game Of Thrones) (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 16 May 2016 19:55 (three years ago) link

hmm ok you guys get a pass for this reasonable criticism

μpright mammal (mh), Monday, 16 May 2016 19:56 (three years ago) link

Yes, agree 100%. I've always loved Bachalo's art but he couldn't storytell his way out of a potato sack.

Peanut Duck (Old Lunch), Monday, 16 May 2016 20:11 (three years ago) link

it's nice in the potato sack

μpright mammal (mh), Monday, 16 May 2016 20:13 (three years ago) link

now we've put that to rest i'd like to say that I really like humberto ramos and i've never had a problem with his layouts

that power man and iron fist cover isn't ramos tho is it? looks more like paul pope to me but i don't think it's him either

(main prostitute from Game Of Thrones) (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 16 May 2016 20:36 (three years ago) link

Sanford Greene, apparently.

http://marvel.com/comics/issue/57948/power_man_and_iron_fist_2016_1

Andrew Farrell, Monday, 16 May 2016 20:42 (three years ago) link

ah glad someone else thought it looked like Paul Pope (albeit kinda shittier and uglier than he generally is)

Οὖτις, Monday, 16 May 2016 20:48 (three years ago) link

looking up sanford greene just led me to the news that darwyn cooke has died at 53. fuck :(

(main prostitute from Game Of Thrones) (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 16 May 2016 20:51 (three years ago) link

Yeah, I like Bachalo too, although much prefer his old Shade style. Felt more human. Right now I can't imagine him drawing a character like Kathy, say, who feels like they could exist as a real person. Maybe he should stick to Giffen-style nine and six panels or something.

Chuck_Tatum, Monday, 16 May 2016 20:52 (three years ago) link

(I meant Lenny not Kathy)

Chuck_Tatum, Monday, 16 May 2016 20:53 (three years ago) link

bg - some more news here: Rolling SERIOUS GRAPHIC LITERATURE Thread for Comics in 2016

Andrew Farrell, Monday, 16 May 2016 21:09 (three years ago) link

Bachalo still had decent storytelling skills in his older works, like Shade or Death the High Cost of Living. But it seems that as his artwork got more stylized, his layouts and pacing became less and less coherent. It's too bad, I actually like his more cartoonish style a lot, but it's true that a lot of his later comics are practically unreadable because the plot is so hard to follow. I guess he should stick to doing cover art.

Tuomas, Tuesday, 17 May 2016 08:38 (three years ago) link

omg
http://pbfcomics.com/archive_b/PBF275-The_Offenders.png
xpost to every thread everywhere obviously

ulysses, Tuesday, 17 May 2016 14:04 (three years ago) link

Put storytelling first or GTFO and do covers/portfolios, is my basic stance

scarcity festival (Jon not Jon), Tuesday, 17 May 2016 14:05 (three years ago) link

I think there can be great comics without great storytelling, tho - comics where narrative, clearly delineated action, seamless transitions between panels etc take second place to sensation, pyrotechnics, mystery, psychedelic excess (I'm thinking of someone like Druillet)

Chicamaw (Ward Fowler), Tuesday, 17 May 2016 14:32 (three years ago) link

prob not nearly in the ballpark you are talking about Ward but now I want to reread We3

i like to trump and i am crazy (DJP), Tuesday, 17 May 2016 14:51 (three years ago) link

love We3

μpright mammal (mh), Tuesday, 17 May 2016 15:05 (three years ago) link

Yeah, I'm sad that the proposed film of that lost momentum.

pleas to Nietzsche (WilliamC), Tuesday, 17 May 2016 15:45 (three years ago) link

How on earth would that work? Most of the best things about We3 are specifically about the medium.

Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 17 May 2016 16:10 (three years ago) link

Ang Lee's We3

i like to trump and i am crazy (DJP), Tuesday, 17 May 2016 16:11 (three years ago) link

I'm afraid I'm a sucker for cleanly delineated action. I couldn't even handle Prophet! I'm a much more impatient comic-book reader than book-book reader - I get bored if there's too few words, or too many.

Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 17 May 2016 16:12 (three years ago) link

(xpost)

Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 17 May 2016 16:12 (three years ago) link

fuck... i can't even think about We3 without getting choked up inside. not sure i can bring myself to reread it.

also i'm not exactly carving out new or savvy ground but quitely is pretty much the best imo

Larry Elleison (rogermexico.), Wednesday, 18 May 2016 01:12 (three years ago) link

I just finished reading Remender's Uncanny X-Force for the first time (as a prelude to his Uncanny Avengers) and it really is as good as I'd heard. I think I'd put it up there with Morrison's New X-Men (its obvious predecessor and inspiration).

I'm still sloowwwwly making my way through Marvel Now! (I've read almost everything prior to Original Sin and Axis thus far, hope to get to Secret Wars before the end of President Trump's second term). There are a few garbage series or series that eventually turned to garbage but the hit rate is surprisingly high, and some of it really is top tier Marvel.

Although: I've been a fan of almost all of the earlier Bendis Marvel stuff but his Marvel Now! work is doing pretty much nothing for me.

Corn Elephant, Jr. (Old Lunch), Saturday, 21 May 2016 22:29 (three years ago) link

Prophet is a fun read. It's reads to me like a nature documentary or at least I hear the captions in that way.

Read the last Punisher run by Nathan Edmondson picking up the set cheap at my local shop. It gets off to a good start with battle with Elektro. The run kinda falls flat in the second part, partially as you can tell they got the "wrap this up" everything is rebooting that led the conclusion to condense. Parts are just as awkward and kinda loony as The Punisher written by anyone ends up being. Don't think this version of the Howlin' Commandos will really catch on. Oh yeah, Frank gets a pet coyote.

earlnash, Sunday, 22 May 2016 03:59 (three years ago) link

Reread Brubaker on X-Men, not his better-known Marvel work. Hoping no one at Fox reads it and attempts to make their own GotG ripoff starring the Starjammers.

μpright mammal (mh), Sunday, 22 May 2016 20:54 (three years ago) link

So this Captain America thing is asinine.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Wednesday, 25 May 2016 16:27 (three years ago) link

I think it's pretty funny, personally

DJP, Wednesday, 25 May 2016 16:28 (three years ago) link

you mean the #getcaptainamericaboyfriend thing?

ulysses, Wednesday, 25 May 2016 16:36 (three years ago) link

it's news that is best revealed by googling IMO

DJP, Wednesday, 25 May 2016 16:39 (three years ago) link

Didn't Hickman basically just do this in Secret Warriors a few years back? And is the ultimate switcheroo likely to be any different than Hickman's at the end of that series?

Wet Food (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 25 May 2016 16:48 (three years ago) link

psyched for the thinkpieces arguing that america's slow descent into fascism is being reflected in the heel turn of its greatest champion etc

does rob bricken have a hot take on this yet

benzarro ghazarri (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 25 May 2016 16:57 (three years ago) link

I wish I hadn't read the spoiler. I've been so good about avoiding discussion of pretty much everything that's happened over the past year and a half. So with that in mind:
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SPOILERZ
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.
How shitty is Hydra at activating double agents if they've allowed one to regularly participate in their defeat for the past 75 years?

Wet Food (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 25 May 2016 17:00 (three years ago) link

what they should really do is make it that it comes out that in the past captain america made a pragmatic agreement w/ hydra in order to pursue other more immediate goals + threats and now some self-righteous superhero teen is calling him out for being corrupt and in bed w/ hydra.

Mordy, Wednesday, 25 May 2016 17:07 (three years ago) link

It's funny, I was just thinking the other day when DC's Rebirth revelations leaked that Marvel, despite sweeping changes across their books, haven't made a change yet that I can remember pissing off a sizeable portion of their audience in the way that DC has become infamous for, but this might be the one depending on the execution.

Wet Food (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 25 May 2016 17:31 (three years ago) link

I'm pretty sure Disassembled and House of M and Civil War pissed off a lot of people for ruining characters and franchises they liked and for shittng on earlier stories done by better writers.

Tuomas, Wednesday, 25 May 2016 17:39 (three years ago) link

The Bendis era is pretty much the most divisive Marvel era of them all, with some saying he was a hack only cared about his pet characters and who ignored most of the previous continuity, while others thought he revitalised parts of the MU that weren't doing so well, such as the Avengers.

Tuomas, Wednesday, 25 May 2016 17:43 (three years ago) link

I kinda think both things are true...

Frederik B, Wednesday, 25 May 2016 17:47 (three years ago) link

the idea of bringing bucky back seemed super ill-advised but it ended up being one of the defining cap stories so i'll give this the benefit of the doubt for now

in other cap news, i've been reading through mark gruenwald's run on cap via marvel unlimited and it's such good fun

benzarro ghazarri (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 25 May 2016 17:47 (three years ago) link

I mean, putting Wolverine and Spiderman on the Avengers was sorta a no-brainer move, but boy did that run run out of steam.

Frederik B, Wednesday, 25 May 2016 17:50 (three years ago) link

In the last year all they did was eating Chinese food and bickering while waiting for Norman Osborn to win over public opinion yet again.

Frederik B, Wednesday, 25 May 2016 17:51 (three years ago) link

if this lasts longer than eight issues i would be shocked

ulysses, Wednesday, 25 May 2016 17:55 (three years ago) link

Gruenwald Cap is just about the epitome of cozy '80s Marvel for me.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/95/207779351_7110d8eda2_o.jpg

Wet Food (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 25 May 2016 17:55 (three years ago) link

lol would Captain America: Agent of Hydra be the same one who was changed from an old man back to his youth self, and also has his greatest enemy running around with Xavier's telepathic powers?

μpright mammal (mh), Wednesday, 25 May 2016 17:55 (three years ago) link

I mean, I have no idea when, among about fifty recent incidents, they could have swapped or brainwashed this guy

μpright mammal (mh), Wednesday, 25 May 2016 17:56 (three years ago) link

there are an unusual number of dudes-sharing-showers scenes in the first couple of years of gruenwalds run

as a britisher i just assumed it must be a vital part of the fabric of american life

benzarro ghazarri (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 25 May 2016 17:59 (three years ago) link

Yes, hence the well-known phrase 'it's as American as showering with dudes'.

Wet Food (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 25 May 2016 18:07 (three years ago) link

some saying he was a hack only cared about his pet characters

This is true of virtually every major mainstream comics scripter, and it's one of the ways that different writers and artists on the Avengers have distinguished themselves eg Steve Englehart w/ Moondragon, Roy Thomas w/ the Vision etc etc.

Chicamaw (Ward Fowler), Wednesday, 25 May 2016 18:54 (three years ago) link

Not what you're talking about, but I'm now thinking of Lockjaw and the Pet Avengers

μpright mammal (mh), Wednesday, 25 May 2016 19:02 (three years ago) link

Any Marvel writer worth his or her salt should care equally about all 58,673,912 characters across the multiverse. Yes, even SuperPro.

Wet Food (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 25 May 2016 19:07 (three years ago) link

Mark Gruenwald's anniversary issue of Captain America (350?) is the greatest. It's like the best piece of comic book hackwork ever.

Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 25 May 2016 20:55 (three years ago) link

Speaking of hackwork, Nick Spencer has turned into a terrible writer! Lousy overextended dialogue on every page.

Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 25 May 2016 20:55 (three years ago) link

xp yeah, it's a blast. steve rogers vs john walker! the red skull returns in a cloned captain america body! gruenwald's stories sure ran at a hell of a clip

benzarro ghazarri (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 25 May 2016 21:16 (three years ago) link

xpost Aw, I was about to say that just about the only thing this nutzoid idea had going for it was Nick Spencer. I've really enjoyed everything I've read of his (through I guess like late 2014?).

Wet Food (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 25 May 2016 21:41 (three years ago) link

Yeah, he's been better. Blame the editor, perhaps?

Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 25 May 2016 23:42 (three years ago) link

It's funny, I was just thinking the other day when DC's Rebirth revelations leaked that Marvel, despite sweeping changes across their books, haven't made a change yet that I can remember pissing off a sizeable portion of their audience in the way that DC has become infamous for, but this might be the one depending on the execution.

Retconning the Spider-Man marriage would probably count here

Sharia Laws and Lambchop (The Yellow Kid), Thursday, 26 May 2016 00:12 (three years ago) link

Ohhhhh yeah. Good call on that one.

Wet Food (Old Lunch), Thursday, 26 May 2016 01:28 (three years ago) link

That time they let Jeph Loeb wreck the ultimate universe

μpright mammal (mh), Thursday, 26 May 2016 03:12 (three years ago) link

This issue also introduces us to a new generation of Hydra fighters, who resemble ISIS and white supremacist organizations. What were your influences there?

That’s exactly right. Those are the two things that are being conflated here to some extent. The Red Skull obviously has a lot of experience with fascism and Nazism and white supremacy movements. What we’re seeing here is an adoption of modern-day terror tactics. For me, those were an interesting couple of components to put together. What we see throughout the world right now is that these kinds of movements are heavily resurgent and seeing record-breaking recruitment numbers. So some of this is trying to be a little forward-thinking in picturing what the world might look like if these kinds of organizations decide to adopt these kinds of tactics.

the ghost of tom, choad (thomp), Friday, 27 May 2016 06:53 (three years ago) link

As a Spiderman reading guy for over a decade there was all the shit with Aunt May being dead or not; Peter Parker finding out he was a clone, hitting his wife with a mighty punch, teaming up with Jackal and poisoning people; Green Goblin getting Gwen Stacy pregnant. Stopped reading not long after the last example (but I was mostly going off the superhero genre).

But if I was a young fan when Dr Octopus taken over Parker's body, I fear how I might have acted online, because that sounded incredibly vulgar and stupid. I know I would have been mad as hell.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, 27 May 2016 14:08 (three years ago) link

it worked out pretty well, though!

μpright mammal (mh), Friday, 27 May 2016 14:14 (three years ago) link

still kind of amazed how that changed the spider-man status quo considerably and wasn't followed up by a swift reset

μpright mammal (mh), Friday, 27 May 2016 14:14 (three years ago) link

The idea sounded stupid for sure, and I'm not the world's biggest Slott fan, but Superior Spider-Man was decent. Mostly because the concept wasn't "now Spider-Man is evil" but rather "now Dr. Octopus is feeding his ego by trying to be an even more effective version of Spider-Man".

I Have A Hot Dog Stuck To My Neck (Old Lunch), Friday, 27 May 2016 14:16 (three years ago) link

I felt kind of bad for Otto at the end!

μpright mammal (mh), Friday, 27 May 2016 14:26 (three years ago) link

I've been filled in about it, something like Parker acting as a ghostly Jiminy Cricket, Octopus becoming a good person and I'm still pretty sure I would have hated it.

Never liked Otto much.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, 27 May 2016 14:28 (three years ago) link

Basically he copied his mind into Peter's and vice versa, but he needed Peter's memories in order to take over his life, so Peter's not really gone. A little Jiminy Cricket-ish, but not irritatingly so.

Otto as Spider-Man isn't really a "good person," he's still a narcissist and has what amounts to a Spider-Militia on call. But what he does do is really throw all of his potential into creating Parker Industries, which is something Peter could have done but never really had the confidence to do.

μpright mammal (mh), Friday, 27 May 2016 14:33 (three years ago) link

But if I was a young fan when Dr Octopus taken over Parker's body, I fear how I might have acted online

I was thinking about the late 80s Dr Fate comic - Doctor Fate went from being a man, to being a man/woman hybrid, to being a woman, to being a man, then a woman, etc.

Maybe I read the wrong publications (and admittedly it was a C-list title) but I don't remember the gender swap being an issue. Right-wing nerd whining about gender/race issues seems like a very 2000-2010s thing - at least, the internet has broadened its reach from nut fringe to not-at-all-fringe.

Chuck_Tatum, Friday, 27 May 2016 14:38 (three years ago) link

Where does Spider-Man's radioactive sperm fit in all of this?

EZ Snappin, Friday, 27 May 2016 15:44 (three years ago) link

deep in the fallopian tubes iirc

ulysses, Friday, 27 May 2016 15:46 (three years ago) link

Right-wing nerd whining about gender/race issues seems like a very 2000-2010s thing - at least, the internet has broadened its reach from nut fringe to not-at-all-fringe.

― Chuck_Tatum, Friday, May 27, 2016 9:38 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I think the only appropriate response to this recent hue and cry is for the creative community to do whatever they can to induce mass MRA aneurysms all the time.

I Have A Hot Dog Stuck To My Neck (Old Lunch), Friday, 27 May 2016 15:53 (three years ago) link

I support this strategy

μpright mammal (mh), Friday, 27 May 2016 15:54 (three years ago) link

Yeah I am now completely behind the Captain Nazi plot twist after seeing all the entitled online whining

Chuck_Tatum, Friday, 27 May 2016 16:53 (three years ago) link

So many people are saying it's an insult to Jewish Kirby & Simon but I never thought Hydra were supposed to be Nazis, aren't they more like communists inspired by Russia and China?

Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, 27 May 2016 17:51 (three years ago) link

http://i.imgur.com/CeCfOzS.png

I love the first appearance of Hydra where their leader has a giant rotary dial on his wall with pictures of animals on it. did anyone ever bring this concept back in later years?

soref, Friday, 27 May 2016 18:03 (three years ago) link

Hydra first appeared in Strange Tales #135. In its original continuity, it was headed by nondescript businessman Arnold Brown, who was killed as S.H.I.E.L.D. apparently crushed the organization. Hydra soon returned, however, headed by Baron Wolfgang von Strucker, with the support of the Nazi Red Skull; Hydra's changing origin was one of Marvel's earliest retcons. After its initial defeat, several of its branches, such as its scientific branch A.I.M. (Advanced Idea Mechanics) and the Secret Empire, became independent.

so yeah, the very second appearance has HYDRA linked the the Red Skull and Strucker, both nazis

μpright mammal (mh), Friday, 27 May 2016 18:13 (three years ago) link

dial h for hydra naval action sea dragons look like some grant morrison shit for sure

ulysses, Friday, 27 May 2016 18:30 (three years ago) link

nice beaver

benzarro ghazarri (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 27 May 2016 18:57 (three years ago) link

the big hydra wheel is kind of like the round table of Hickman's Secret Warriors run that connects it to the ancient SHIELD series he did. it's star signs instead of animals, though.

μpright mammal (mh), Friday, 27 May 2016 19:02 (three years ago) link

I really hope it was an homage to the animal wheel

μpright mammal (mh), Friday, 27 May 2016 19:03 (three years ago) link

Dear Brian Michael Bendis, it's clear that you do layouts for the comics you write, which is cool and all but please listen when I tell you: these two page layouts you do are always confusing. Always. When a panel on the left-hand page ends at the gutter, the reader's natural inclination is to move to the panel below it on the same page, not the adjacent panel on the right-hand page. Please stop doing that because there's no reason to do that. Thanks!

I Do Dumb Things And Then I Cry (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 1 June 2016 02:01 (three years ago) link

You could stop reading Bendis comics?

glandular lansbury (sic), Wednesday, 1 June 2016 02:17 (three years ago) link

I don't think I can. He completes me.

I Do Dumb Things And Then I Cry (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 1 June 2016 02:20 (three years ago) link

The guided view on the Marvel app is made for Bendis. Suddenly all the micropanels make sense and the bad page geography disappears.

Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 1 June 2016 05:59 (three years ago) link

Oh god, Bendis two pagers. One of his books has six of them. IN A ROW.

I've gotten used to hunting a bit for the reading order. I'm more annoyed that he abuses spreads for stuff that doesn't particularly benefit from it.

salsa shark, Wednesday, 1 June 2016 18:08 (three years ago) link

I've come to the conclusion that I hate reading Bendis

DJP, Wednesday, 1 June 2016 18:28 (three years ago) link

This is tangential but I wanna ask: Who among you still buys individual floppies on a monthly basis? And why?

ulysses, Wednesday, 1 June 2016 20:38 (three years ago) link

i do! i hate hate hate reading comics on a screen and i like the weekly comic book store ritual.

adam, Wednesday, 1 June 2016 20:58 (three years ago) link

i don't really buy marvel or dc books on a consistent basis though because i have learned my lesson (over and over again)

adam, Wednesday, 1 June 2016 20:59 (three years ago) link

I got used to screen reading and ran out of shelf space. After i filled seven bookshelves, I am now on new book lockdown.
I more or less NEVER enjoyed the weekly ritual of going to the store; always feel silently judged by the behind the counter guy. Probably just me.

ulysses, Wednesday, 1 June 2016 21:02 (three years ago) link

I don't buy anything regularly but what I do buy is floppies or trade paperbacks

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 1 June 2016 21:04 (three years ago) link

i got an "excellent choice" today in re: new shigeru mizuki kitaro collection /basks in forbidden planet employee approval

adam, Wednesday, 1 June 2016 21:11 (three years ago) link

i can understand buying trades, i have a harder time understanding buying floppies (especially if they're from DC/Image/Marvel). Resale value is basically nil and you run the chance of missing an issue and having an incomplete story... plus the little buggers are hard to store!

ulysses, Wednesday, 1 June 2016 21:16 (three years ago) link

I make an effort to pick up the occasional stack of issues when it's a low-selling series I want to make sure they'll be interested in collecting

μpright mammal (mh), Wednesday, 1 June 2016 21:30 (three years ago) link

Man, Civil War II is awful.

Frederik B, Wednesday, 1 June 2016 21:34 (three years ago) link

Nothing makes sense, the 'moral argument' is ludicrous, not a single memorable line or drawing. Just pure unrelenting Bendesque dullness.

Frederik B, Wednesday, 1 June 2016 21:35 (three years ago) link

How is the repro on the new Shang Chi omnibus?

scarcity festival (Jon not Jon), Wednesday, 1 June 2016 21:53 (three years ago) link

I buy floppies because I like the medium. They are digestible in 5-10 min and easy enough to throw into longboxes.

DJP, Wednesday, 1 June 2016 22:23 (three years ago) link

when i hit thirty longboxes, i migrated everything to bookshelves. the pokemon collector in me gets obsessive about full runs and that way lies madness and poverty. Trades saved my soul.

ulysses, Wednesday, 1 June 2016 22:27 (three years ago) link

would any of y'all want a fancy wooden longbox, or would you feel weird paying more for your box than the comics inside it?

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 1 June 2016 22:41 (three years ago) link

i've known at least one guy who used full longboxes as a boxspring for his mattress.

ulysses, Wednesday, 1 June 2016 22:43 (three years ago) link

I buy floppies because I enjoy being part of a cultural moment, that this is comic book day and I'm finding out the same time as hundreds of thousands of other people, a shared communion.

Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 1 June 2016 23:42 (three years ago) link

And while I'm there, I might as well pay for all the books that aren't The Wicked and The Divine, as well.

Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 1 June 2016 23:42 (three years ago) link

I regularly buy an embarrassing number of floppies, mostly Marvel. And trades of older stuff. At a steep discount, but still. You would probably be alternately impressed and ashamed. And, yeah, space has not yet but probably will start to become an issue soon.

What's Your Definition of a Dirty Baby? (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 1 June 2016 23:47 (three years ago) link

i would be afraid i'd fuck up my books putting them in that thing but i gather you'd be meant to have them mylar bagged and boarded if you were at that level of collectordom. Nice handiwork nonetheless.

ulysses, Thursday, 2 June 2016 00:04 (three years ago) link

I gave up floppy buying on the reg five years ago, went back to doing so weekly when a comic shop was on my commute route (on the road I drove most of the way in a neighborhood where the speed limit was 25 so I couldn't not stop) and am mostly digital now

Six or seven years ago I moved temporarily to a smaller space and gave away 90% of my comics. Just took them to a well-connected friend's place and said "find these a good home"

μpright mammal (mh), Thursday, 2 June 2016 00:42 (three years ago) link

ownership and reading of floppies has always seemed ephemeral, even if people collect them. I've mentioned it elsewhere on ilx, but when I was probably 13 years old, a neighbor who owned a rental house had his tenant bail and the guy forgot a few longboxes that had pretty much every x-men issue from the Phoenix saga to around when Jim Lee started, along with a lot of other random comics of the era. I carefully read all those and returned them.

μpright mammal (mh), Thursday, 2 June 2016 00:45 (three years ago) link

You better be pretty strong if you are moving around full wooden long boxes.

One odd thing I do notice about new comics is that they seem to be quite a bit heavier than the old newsprint comics, even more so for a box of trades.

earlnash, Thursday, 2 June 2016 00:51 (three years ago) link

you can set coffee on them multiple times before the rings soak through the cover

μpright mammal (mh), Thursday, 2 June 2016 00:53 (three years ago) link

This is tangential but I wanna ask: Who among you still buys individual floppies on a monthly basis? And why?

I'm only buying monthly at the moment while Prophet is wrapping up, and it'll drop down to every few months after that. If I'm living in America next year near a shop that gets Retrofit and Youth In Decline and Koyama and Oily and the like, I'll be back to it - but Diamond has destroyed distribution for individual creative voices: I've bought more comics in the US and Canada in the last three years than I have in my local comic shop.

Prophet is only because I've been following it for four years or whatever and want to ride the story out - I love the comic book format, but loathe coverless books, which would rule out the rest of Marvel, Image & DC if the content didn't already. I bailed out on Island after it went coverless, or that would be one to keep a monthly visit ticking over. (Sometimes takes me seven weeks to make it in, though.)

glandular lansbury (sic), Thursday, 2 June 2016 01:08 (three years ago) link

Possibly because I own a store I mostly read via digital (mostly Marvel Unlimited, some purchased on Comixology) unless I take damaged copies home with me (I pretty much always get destroy orders for them so I read and recycle).

It's too hard for me to keep up since I see so many titles every week and by the time I've unpacked and sorted on Tuesday I can no longer think about what I might want to read. Never had the collector gene so stacking boxes of them isn't for me and too often with floppies I'll give away or recycle an issue and have forgotten what happened (esp with long layoffs ala Saga or Sex Criminals) in the issue I no longer have from months ago.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Thursday, 2 June 2016 01:30 (three years ago) link

Although I buy a ton of floppies and appreciate having a physical thing made of paper over pixels, I don't have any special attachment to them as floppies. It'd be awesome if I could eventually trade a lot of them off for their equivalent collected editions.

What's Your Definition of a Dirty Baby? (Old Lunch), Thursday, 2 June 2016 02:18 (three years ago) link

sorry, what's a "coverless" book?

milo, I would love to hear your thoughts on piracy as i am a marvel unlimited subscriber and a fairly unrepentant torrenter of things I solely want to read once and discard or keep as a reference library or are simply unavailable in the states. I still buy creator made material either on the web or at cons and trades at used book stores or amazon or ebay but I gave up on buying floppies more or less at the end of brubaker's run on daredevil. Am i evil? It's okay, you can tell me.

ulysses, Thursday, 2 June 2016 02:58 (three years ago) link

i might add to that guilt ridden screed that I make a point of blowing fifty bucks at any comic book store i go into more or less as penance but that often leads to me buying stuff I don't care for which keeps me away from comic books, vicious cycle

ulysses, Thursday, 2 June 2016 03:07 (three years ago) link

I spend the equivalent of a small nation's GDP on comics and, because I like having a digital library at my fingertips, I also t0rrent the shit out of comics (many/most of which I've already procured via "legal" means). I don't subscribe to Marvel Unlimited because they don't have everything and because limited control, but my floppy addiction probably singlehandedly bought Alonso a new Jag so I can't imagine they're too brokenhearted about it.

What's Your Definition of a Dirty Baby? (Old Lunch), Thursday, 2 June 2016 03:28 (three years ago) link

sorry, what's a "coverless" book?

ha, I was using that term because I thought the technical "self-cover" would be too obscure. Five years ago Marvel stopped having covers around the 32-page signatures that their books are printed on, and just ran the cover image and back cover ads on the outer sheet of the internal signature. DC and Image have followed suit gradually. With the paper stocks these things are printed on, it means that they puff up around your fingertips in humid weather, crumple easily, get loose and flappy, etc.

It's historically been an indicator of intended disposability, not a "real" comic that anyone might be expected to hold onto and read again. The current stocks survive through mass shipping much better than newsprint would, but the implication is telling. And just feels gross and insubstantial to my hand. But I'm someone who cares about paper and print quality already.

glandular lansbury (sic), Thursday, 2 June 2016 04:19 (three years ago) link

Y'know...I totally hadn't even noticed that, but you're absolutely right, now that I'm comparing recent stuff with comics that are just a bit older. I guess I failed to notice the transition because that would've been right after I stopped buying comics altogether for a couple of years.

What's Your Definition of a Dirty Baby? (Old Lunch), Thursday, 2 June 2016 05:05 (three years ago) link

that dates how long it's been since i've picked up a current marvel/dc/image book as that's news to me.

ulysses, Thursday, 2 June 2016 05:30 (three years ago) link

ReBirth was the first floppy I've bought in years, apart from those two oversize issues of Criminal that parody Marvel magazines of the 70s - aside from anything else, floppies just seem to be such poor value for money (and the fact that ReBirth was 80 pages of story material for $3 tells me that's one of the reasons the comic has been so successful)

Foster Twelvetrees (Ward Fowler), Thursday, 2 June 2016 07:07 (three years ago) link

Back when I was a kid I bought superhero comics, published by the local Marvel and DC affiliates in Finnish, in the floppy form, because that was the only option. Occasionally I came across some of the early American TPBs, like Elektra Assassin, but my English wasn't yet good enough to read them. I still have a few those floppies left, like the one with the ending of the original Phoenix saga (Finnish superhero comics typically included two American issues per one Finnish issue, so it included both issues 136 and 137). That was actually pretty hard to acquire even in the late 80s, I remember having to pay almost twice the official cover price for it in some used book store.

(Here's the Finnish cover for it, btw:

http://files1.comics.org//img/gcd/covers_by_id/1017/w400/1017369.jpg

As you can see, the Finnish X-Men comics were a few years behind the American ones back then... When they began publishing X-Men in their own book, they started from the beginning of the Byrne/Claremont era instead of the most recent issue. But after the Byrne era was through, the Finnish publisher began to co-print the X-Men comics with the Hungarian Marvel affiliate, which was way ahead of us in the X-Men chronology, so we jumped straight from the Byrne era to the JRJr. era. The Paul Smith era X-Men stories were eventually published in special editions, but the second Cockrum run was never available in Finnish.)

Today, superhero comics translated into Finnish are pretty much extinct; maybe some Spider-Man comics are still getting translated, I dunno, but I prefer to read everything in English. I don't buy American floppies though, they're pretty hard to obtain in here (there's practically just one or two comic stores left that sell them), and since the stores import themselves, the prices are fairly steep - you'd certainly have to pay much more for getting the same story as floppies than as a TPB. Only occasionally I've mail-ordered some American floppies, if the story wasn't available in collected form, like Flex Mentallo or Brute Force.

Tuomas, Thursday, 2 June 2016 07:21 (three years ago) link

Whoops, sorry, that image link doesn't work, here's the X-Men cover:

http://www.ensipainos.fi/tuotekuvat2/11003_5848_4.jpg

Tuomas, Thursday, 2 June 2016 07:37 (three years ago) link

sweet

the ghost of tom, choad (thomp), Thursday, 2 June 2016 07:45 (three years ago) link

The blurb on the cover says "The Rage of the Dark Phoenix", which as a kid I thought was kinda stupid, since the Phoenix is clearly dead in that pic.

Also, "Ryhmä-X" translates to "Team-X" or "Group-X"... They couldn't translate the name "X-Men" directly, because in Finnish "men" always refers to males only, it can't be used as a synonym for "humans", so it would've been weird to have a team with women in it with a name like that.

Tuomas, Thursday, 2 June 2016 08:31 (three years ago) link

Before I went directly to comic stores, in the 90s I bought 3 comics-in-1 Marvel UK comics. It was a really good deal and you could follow those ridiculous storylines because they reprinted all the main Spiderman and X-Men titles and some of the more important one-shots and miniseries. They were two years behind the latest storylines. They went for a long time but I doubt they're still going. For the first several years they had original cover art from Marvel UK. They had no adverts either.
If I had grown up in America I doubt I would have followed these comics and bought all the necessary titles.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 2 June 2016 10:47 (three years ago) link

milo, I would love to hear your thoughts on piracy as i am a marvel unlimited subscriber and a fairly unrepentant torrenter of things I solely want to read once and discard or keep as a reference library or are simply unavailable in the states. I still buy creator made material either on the web or at cons and trades at used book stores or amazon or ebay but I gave up on buying floppies more or less at the end of brubaker's run on daredevil. Am i evil? It's okay, you can tell me.

I can't argue that piracy doesn't cost companies/creators/retailers money to some extent but I've always thought the vast majority of piracy (to a varying scale, music was hit hardest) was never going to get converted into sales no matter what. I pirated George Plimpton's Shadow Box recently for my Kindle - he's dead, it's not available as an e-book, my conscience is clean.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Thursday, 2 June 2016 16:09 (three years ago) link

Marvel just relaunched the 3-in-1 books as "Timely Comics" here in the US. Issues 1-3 of current series for $3.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Thursday, 2 June 2016 16:10 (three years ago) link

are they on newsstands and bookstores? I mean, as much as those places carry comics anymore

sic's point about comics without a different cover stock are something I notice on occasion. it's weird because the covers seem more absorbent than the cheap old covers of the 80s, but the interior pages are definitely better than newsprint

it's weird that they swung all the way to this direction after the years where the covers were practically cardstock

μpright mammal (mh), Thursday, 2 June 2016 16:50 (three years ago) link

I don't know about bookstores/news stands. I know that B&N gets their comics from a company that places books in the stores on a commission basis, buying from the same channels as me so they technically could have them.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Thursday, 2 June 2016 17:25 (three years ago) link

Does America get that cheap Marvel graphic novel series that the UK gets?

Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 2 June 2016 17:40 (three years ago) link

Re: our recent discussion of floppy vs. digital, the surprising revelation that digital comics don't seem to be hurting physical sales, and that physical sales have actually steadily risen over the past five years.

What's Your Definition of a Dirty Baby? (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 7 June 2016 16:19 (three years ago) link

Digital has some disadvantages over floppies (where a Kindle doesn't really over paper books) - but it's hard to beat the ability to easily acquire and read a run in order across multiple series (just downloaded Grant Morrison's Batman run myself).

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Tuesday, 7 June 2016 23:01 (three years ago) link

Can you create a "playlist" that puts all the different issues of different series of Morrison's run in order? With the two relevant issues of 52 at the start, interleaving the Batman issues with the Final Crisis and Superman Beyond and Return Of Bruce Wayne issues, etc?

glandular lansbury (sic), Tuesday, 7 June 2016 23:20 (three years ago) link

can we incorporate douglas wolk's annotations into some sort of interactive hypertext encarta tome?

adam, Tuesday, 7 June 2016 23:28 (three years ago) link

I've seen Torrents do the playlist by putting the order number first before title and issue, so that in your cbr reader the next issue will come up regardless of which title.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Tuesday, 7 June 2016 23:34 (three years ago) link

This one breaks it down into storyline sections, I think, but seems to be missing some parts (no 52 issues).

https://kat.cr/complete-grant-morrison-batman-comic-run-pre-new-52-t7100920.html

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Tuesday, 7 June 2016 23:35 (three years ago) link

Not only is it missing parts of Morrison, it appears to have more non-Morrison bullshit than Morrison, and not put all the Morrison in the right order

glandular lansbury (sic), Wednesday, 8 June 2016 01:35 (three years ago) link

otm

As soon as I saw the word "Hush" I was thinking, wtf is this shit

μpright mammal (mh), Wednesday, 8 June 2016 01:39 (three years ago) link

I don't think we have a thread about collectible comics, so I'll use this one. Has anyone here ever had any comics graded & slabbed? I have a set of FF #48-50 that I've been holding on to for about 30 years and just looked at the prices they're going for. Pretty sure the cost of grading would be recouped in any sale.

pleas to Nietzsche (WilliamC), Thursday, 9 June 2016 21:40 (three years ago) link

i'm opposed to slabbing on principle

De La Soul is no Major Lazer (ulysses), Thursday, 9 June 2016 21:41 (three years ago) link

old comics are still worth money? I have some Kirby FFs, I forget which issues, Inhumans are involved

Οὖτις, Thursday, 9 June 2016 21:42 (three years ago) link

I don't have an opinion about slabbing, but I'm completely in favor of collectors giving me their money for old paper.

pleas to Nietzsche (WilliamC), Thursday, 9 June 2016 21:46 (three years ago) link

If you're going to sell them yourself on Ebay, slabbing is the only way to go IMO. The slow service options aren't horribly expensive.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Thursday, 9 June 2016 22:19 (three years ago) link

I always thought that Silver Age Marvels in Fine+ condition were pretty much the gold standard when it comes to collectible old comics, so wld def slab those FFs if they're no longer required as reading material (ditto FFs w/ the Inhumans).

What puzzles me is the value attached to pre-Silver Age titles - yes, they're no doubt scarce in decent condition, but will the next generation of collectors actually give one fuck about old issues of Mr District Attorney or whatever? I guess certain libraries/archives might want them, the odd historian/researcher, but actual readers...hmmmm...

Also feels like original artwork has replaced old comics as the ultra-desirable collectible object.

Foster Twelvetrees (Ward Fowler), Friday, 10 June 2016 08:15 (three years ago) link

Yeah, I think back to those days when Dave Sim was selling Cerebus pages for something like $30 each and just grit my teeth...

pleas to Nietzsche (WilliamC), Friday, 10 June 2016 12:41 (three years ago) link

I had to look up slabbing to see wtf you guys were even talking about. But I know what you mean now that I see it. Yeah, that shit's perverse as a general practice (I see so much garbage getting that treatment and going for $$$ on ebay and elsewhere) but I geddit if you have old stuff of some value. I'm coming from the opposite end of the collector spectrum, where I just reluctantly bagged and boarded a bunch of my stuff because I'm moving it and didn't want it to get more banged up than it already was. And I know I have at least a handful of things that have skyrocketed in value (unrelated to this particular conversation but it's starting to look like I could trade my Kirby Fourth World omnibi for an economy car) but that I don't have any intention of selling so whatevs.

Manspread Mann (Old Lunch), Friday, 10 June 2016 13:04 (three years ago) link

Jesus Christ, I just looked at the prices of the Annihilation omnibus, and the lowest-priced used copy is now 500 bucks on Amazon and 400 bucks on Ebay! (Even the Simonson Thor omnibus costs peanuts compared to that, you can get a used copy for mere 200 bucks.) Not that I intend to sell the one I have, it's one of my favourite Marvel comics of the 2000s, but Marvel's policy of reprinting any of their collections has made most of their omnibi a solid investment indeed.

Tuomas, Friday, 10 June 2016 13:23 (three years ago) link

And yeah, I had to goole "slabbing" too, comics as collectables is a foreign world to me.

Tuomas, Friday, 10 June 2016 13:25 (three years ago) link

So glad I picked up those Annihilation books in time (after stupidly selling the original trades in a time of financial distress and realizing with utter dismay when I tried to rebuy that their value had quintupled). For better or worse, it seems that the collections are becoming the collector's items. I've taken to preordering any omnibi I want when they're initially solicited.

Manspread Mann (Old Lunch), Friday, 10 June 2016 13:27 (three years ago) link

My current back issue bonanza strategy is to fill as many holes as I can prior to the release of a new character's cinematic debut. The GotG shit went haywire when the movie was released, and everything Apocalypse-related has been fetching big bucks for a while. Trying to snatch up the little bit of Dr. Strange stuff I'm missing and was planning on following suit with Black Panther but now I'm noticing that even the recent Hudlin runs (trades of which you used to be able to pick up for a couple of bucks used) are hard to track down. Black Panther Masterworks vol 2 coming soon, though (collecting a lot of Kirby and the entirety of BP vs. the Klan, I believe)!

Manspread Mann (Old Lunch), Friday, 10 June 2016 13:36 (three years ago) link

ha ha i gave my entire abnett/lanning cosmic collection to goodwill when i moved

adam, Friday, 10 June 2016 13:41 (three years ago) link

xpost
BP vs the Klan was started by Don McGregor but completed by Ed Hannigan, some years later, so it's not a very satisfactory read unfortunately

Foster Twelvetrees (Ward Fowler), Friday, 10 June 2016 13:45 (three years ago) link

The prices for the Abnett/Lanning Nova TPBs have also become ridiculous now, because they were never reprinted, unlike the GotG ones and the Annihilations. I was missing the last few issues of their Nova run, and I had to order them from the US as floppies, because the TPB containing them had gone up to 50 euros or something.

Tuomas, Friday, 10 June 2016 13:49 (three years ago) link

xpost That's too bad. Just picked up a big, cheap lot of Marvel Comics Presents with McGregor's complete 25 part 'Panther's Quest'. Hopefully that'll balance the scales.

Manspread Mann (Old Lunch), Friday, 10 June 2016 13:52 (three years ago) link

I've never read a good comic by Dan Abnett. Do they exist?

I saw this in part because Death's Head II was one of the things that put the boot in me reading comics for several years.

Chuck_Tatum, Friday, 10 June 2016 21:50 (three years ago) link

xps always hoping i'll find a reasonable price on those early Fourth World omnibuses, especially vol. 2 which is way worse than the rest for some reason

Nhex, Friday, 10 June 2016 23:40 (three years ago) link

I've never read a good comic by Dan Abnett. Do they exist?

I haven't read much of his early 90s Marvel UK comics, only the Knights of Pendragon, but the '00s comics he cowrote with Andy Lanning are way better than those. Their Guardians of the Galaxy and Nova run, which begins in Annihilation Conquest, continues in the CotG and Nova ongoing titles, and culminates in The Thanos Imperative, is my favourite long-form Marvel story of this millennium. There's so much sense of wonder and Silver/Bronze Age inspired thrills in those comics, especially considering that at the same time most of the Marvel universe was stuck in Bendisian "hard boiled"/"gritty" bullshit and increasingly pointless mega-crossovers. (Since CotG and Nova weren't set on Earth, they managed to avoid those crossovers; they had a few of their own, but those were small-scale and mostly plotted by Abnett/Lanning, so much better than Bendis and Millar ones.)

I don't think it's a coincidence that Guardians of Galaxy movie was mostly based on the Abnett/Lanning run (and the groundwork laid for it by Keith Giffen in Annihilation and Annihilation Conquest), not the original version of the team (which had an almost completely different cast of characters). Those were some quality comics, and the movie-makers must've recognized that too.

Tuomas, Saturday, 11 June 2016 08:33 (three years ago) link

Otm. Some of the best fun comics I've ever read.

albvivertine, Saturday, 11 June 2016 12:24 (three years ago) link

Had no idea about slabbing or what it was

My FFs are p banged up i doubt they rate as Fine (probably VG at best). But i dont wanna sell them anyway

Οὖτις, Saturday, 11 June 2016 14:25 (three years ago) link

Guys, the variant cover theme for September's books is, um, Prostate Awareness Month.

I await the final covers with bated breath.

Manspread Mann (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 21 June 2016 23:48 (three years ago) link

they know their audience

Nhex, Wednesday, 22 June 2016 01:43 (three years ago) link

'bated breath.

Vernon Locke, Wednesday, 22 June 2016 03:00 (three years ago) link

two weeks pass...

Any thoughts on RiRi Williams beyond "which black name generator did Bendis go to in order to make that name"?

volumetric god rays (DJP), Wednesday, 6 July 2016 17:12 (three years ago) link

ouch, lol

mh, Wednesday, 6 July 2016 17:52 (three years ago) link

I keep imagining him watching tennis highlights with "Work" playing in the background while he was working up the backstory

volumetric god rays (DJP), Wednesday, 6 July 2016 17:54 (three years ago) link

I was thinking more "standing at the grocery store, reading names off the magazines at the check-out aisle"

mh, Wednesday, 6 July 2016 18:05 (three years ago) link

lol that's probably more accurate

volumetric god rays (DJP), Wednesday, 6 July 2016 18:36 (three years ago) link

i have zero issues with marvel's desire to broaden the racial/ethnic/gender base of its headliners but boy do moves like "RiRi Williams" feel patronizing.
also, i had never seen this origin story panel before
http://wetalkpodcasts.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Power-Man-V1-17-Page-19.jpg

thrusted pelvis-first back (ulysses), Thursday, 7 July 2016 15:21 (three years ago) link

aaaahhhhhhhh

Nhex, Thursday, 7 July 2016 15:22 (three years ago) link

I'm sorry, that is the best "coming up with my superhero name" panel ever

mh, Thursday, 7 July 2016 15:31 (three years ago) link

Is that mcgregor Gerber englehart or thomas

scarcity festival (Jon not Jon), Thursday, 7 July 2016 16:39 (three years ago) link

Len Wein

pleas to Nietzsche (WilliamC), Thursday, 7 July 2016 16:58 (three years ago) link

http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chronocomic/entries/scans/PM17_AceOfSpades.JPG

It gets even better than that, right before coming up with Power Man he was considering "The Ace of Spades", but thought it was "too ethnic"!

:-o

Tuomas, Friday, 8 July 2016 06:38 (three years ago) link

This one breaks it down into storyline sections, I think, but seems to be missing some parts (no 52 issues).

https://kat.cr/complete-grant-morrison-batman-comic-run-pre-new-52-t7100920.html

― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Wednesday, June 8, 2016 9:35 AM (1 month ago)

Not only is it missing parts of Morrison, it appears to have more non-Morrison bullshit than Morrison, and not put all the Morrison in the right order

― glandular lansbury (sic), Wednesday, June 8, 2016 11:35 AM (1 month ago)

otm

As soon as I saw the word "Hush" I was thinking, wtf is this shit

― μpright mammal (mh), Wednesday, June 8, 2016 11:39 AM (1 month ago)

just looked at this on a computer for the first time, so I could actually count: out of the first 90 comics in this "complete Morrison Batman" torrent, FIFTY-THREE are by other people

the 11 reprints from 1951-64 are at least more relevant to his run than all the contemporaneous stuff. (and the last 42 issues are uninterrupted Morrison.)

glandular lansbury (sic), Friday, 8 July 2016 09:25 (three years ago) link

What a travesty for Kick Ass Torrents!

Tuomas, Friday, 8 July 2016 09:34 (three years ago) link

ha ha

I was thinking more for milo trying to read the whole thing

glandular lansbury (sic), Friday, 8 July 2016 09:37 (three years ago) link

After putting it off for years I finally did finish reading the Morrison run. well almost - the weird thing is towards the end, after New 52 started the Batman universe is really weird being half-rebooted and half-not, but the Morrison run does slightly intersect with the other Bat-titles (Synder Batman/Detective Comics/Batman & Robin/Nightwing etc.) so while I've read Batman Inc - Leviathan I still have to read Death of the Family...

Nhex, Friday, 8 July 2016 11:23 (three years ago) link

I've read the 13 issues that came after Leviathan and I have no idea what Death Of The Family is

glandular lansbury (sic), Friday, 8 July 2016 14:29 (three years ago) link

It's a Snyder thing, you wouldn't understand.

To steer this back towards the topic at hand, I've been catching up on the secondary and tertiary All-New X-titles, and I've been pleasantly surprised to see the extent to which Morrison's New X-Men run has been referenced in recent years, especially after the embarrassed, 'shove it under the rug and forget it' treatment it received for so long. I guess we just had to wait for a new, Morrison-inspired generation of writers to come 'round.

Spurrier's X-Men Legacy (not exactly the book I was referencing but clearly a beneficiary of that legacy) is good stuff, btw.

some anal dread (Old Lunch), Friday, 8 July 2016 15:18 (three years ago) link

as much as I hated their "resurrect Grant Morrison's toys he created then killed" approach, I guess I'll let them have Xorn now

mh, Friday, 8 July 2016 15:19 (three years ago) link

Good grief Civil War II must be one of the most relentlessly un-fun comics I've read since Countdown or Identity Crisis.

Chuck_Tatum, Thursday, 14 July 2016 20:24 (three years ago) link

wtf is going on re: Civil War II

http://porno (DJP), Monday, 18 July 2016 17:48 (three years ago) link

I kinda dig it for reflecting the zeitgeist but Chuck is OTM, it ain't fun.

pleas to Nietzsche (WilliamC), Monday, 18 July 2016 17:54 (three years ago) link

i know basically nothing about CWII, what's the deal?

Nhex, Monday, 18 July 2016 17:58 (three years ago) link

minority report divided by world war hulk with bendis dialogue

thrusted pelvis-first back (ulysses), Monday, 18 July 2016 18:00 (three years ago) link

guy sees future
people ask if it's a series of self-fulfilling prophecies
hawkeye kills banner because ?!?

mh, Monday, 18 July 2016 18:17 (three years ago) link

Welp, there's that spoiler I'd been assiduously avoiding.

Night Jorts (Old Lunch), Monday, 18 July 2016 18:19 (three years ago) link

Apparently the deal is "Bendis murders old characters to make space for new ones"

http://porno (DJP), Monday, 18 July 2016 18:20 (three years ago) link

it hardly feels like a major plot beat, more "then this thing happened"

mh, Monday, 18 July 2016 18:25 (three years ago) link

ah, it'll retrofit in a year anyway
killing major characters is as serious and stable as a jenga set

thrusted pelvis-first back (ulysses), Monday, 18 July 2016 18:30 (three years ago) link

Seriously. To the extent that I kinda wish they'd just stop doing it for like a decade or so.

Night Jorts (Old Lunch), Monday, 18 July 2016 18:32 (three years ago) link

lol as if Banner is really gonna give anyone a way to kill Hulk

mh, Monday, 18 July 2016 18:33 (three years ago) link

It's like a bigger ontological problem at this point. Why does death even mean anything to characters in the Marvel U? Why is that a universe where death would've ever even been considered more than a minor annoyance in the first place? Because all of the people who've died seventeen times on average look at Uncle Ben's as-yet-undisturbed grave and say, that could be us?

Night Jorts (Old Lunch), Monday, 18 July 2016 18:35 (three years ago) link

I will lol if they murdered Banner in order to prevent Hulk from killing all the heroes and Amadeus Cho freaks out and kills everyone in order to keep himself sage

http://porno (DJP), Monday, 18 July 2016 18:36 (three years ago) link

even if death isn't permanent i'm sure dying is still uncomfortable (especially dying violently), and being out of the scene for anywhere from 6 months to years is also a sad thing. maybe not any more sad than someone going on a long vacation but still. and the chance that you don't ever get resurrected makes it a bit russian roulettish. maybe knowing death is rarely permanent might make you more willing to take risky heroic chances that put yr life into jeopardy but they are already doing that on a regular basis so either it's bc they know and so that kind of heroism is a logical result of knowing you can't die permanently or bc they're just big heroes and thank god there's a safety net to catch them if they ever fall off the tightrope of the living.

Mordy, Monday, 18 July 2016 18:56 (three years ago) link

(waves at friend's mangled corpse) Have a nice trip!

Night Jorts (Old Lunch), Monday, 18 July 2016 18:58 (three years ago) link

One of the best recent-ish stories I've read along these lines revolved around Siryn refusing to grieve Banshee's death because he was an X-Man and therefore due to be resurrected any day now.

http://porno (DJP), Monday, 18 July 2016 18:59 (three years ago) link

I was thinking of that exact story, too. This big secret re: death is being referenced in-universe more and more frequently.

Night Jorts (Old Lunch), Monday, 18 July 2016 19:01 (three years ago) link

pretty sure he came back during the x-force thing where the dead remained half-dead, but allied with selene xp

mh, Monday, 18 July 2016 19:01 (three years ago) link

tbf the reaction from almost every character running into a "reanimated" character in that plot was "aw, hell no"

mh, Monday, 18 July 2016 19:02 (three years ago) link

xpost Yeah, he did. Don't recall what ultimately became of those resurrected Horsemen.

I wish it were at least treated in some manner similar to Buffy's death and resurrection. Like, there are at least consequences or things lost from being brought back from the dead.

Night Jorts (Old Lunch), Monday, 18 July 2016 19:03 (three years ago) link

I guess they kinda went there with Nightcrawler's resurrection, but it doesn't really have as much gravity as a one-off thing.

Night Jorts (Old Lunch), Monday, 18 July 2016 19:21 (three years ago) link

iirc peter david did something interesting back in the pantheon-era hulk days, where rick jones' gf marlo was brought back from the dead but was basically in a vegetative state for a while xp

report your crimes to my burning ghost cock (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 18 July 2016 19:29 (three years ago) link

Yeah, for like maybe a year at most, iirc. Nothing like that ever lasts.

Night Jorts (Old Lunch), Monday, 18 July 2016 19:31 (three years ago) link

Did they fix Nightcrawler's problem of not having a soul yet? :(

mh, Monday, 18 July 2016 19:42 (three years ago) link

Why does Bendis still have the keys to the Marvel Universe, I thought everyone was bored of him already? At least Hickman did something cool and imaginative with those keys. Bendis' previous big story (Age of Ultron) was one of the most tired, needless crossovers I've ever read, can't imagine this one being any better?

Tuomas, Tuesday, 19 July 2016 07:39 (three years ago) link

Oh this one is much much worse. Ultron was at least dumb fun, and had two really great Vic F crossovers.

On the other hand this one has taken Al's Ultimates team (i.e. the optimistic, hopeful ones) and turned them into The Bad Guys.

Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 19 July 2016 09:16 (three years ago) link

I wonder if time will out whose idea Civil War II was. My guess is that it wasn't a writer. Could be that Bendis took the job cuz no one else wanted it.

I was a Bendis fan back in his earlier Marvel days but kinda feel these days like he needs to focus on maybe like the Miles Morales book and otherwise just relax and enjoy the big money he surely has at this point. Pass that baton, bruh.

Night Jorts (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 19 July 2016 12:31 (three years ago) link

https://twitter.com/JHickman/status/752939781684797440

mh, Tuesday, 19 July 2016 13:52 (three years ago) link

I'm not even caught up to the point where he left but I miss Hickman already.

Night Jorts (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 19 July 2016 13:54 (three years ago) link

It feels like Bendis has been churning out plot long enough that everything is kind of bland. I'd rather see some whimsical or really weird ideas fall flat than another by-the-book plot trickle through.

When I was thinking about "Road to road to Civil War 2.5" or whatever is going on had its "shocking" character death, and how as readers we're primed to disbelieve it's permanent, it reminded me of what Hickman did with the Human Torch. He's lost, presumably dead, in the Negative Zone for a reasonable amount of time but never shown to die on panel. I don't think, as a reader, I was ever supposed to believe he was dead, but his absence meant something to the plot.

...and his return meant even more! The reveal that he was killed _many times_ and rebuilt for these drudging fights (which is, at its root, what comic superheroes are put through, although not as literally) was commentary on superhero death, and when he finally reappears, it's one of the main events that turns the tide in a much larger battle! The Negative Zone portal popping open, and Johnny Storm standing there with Annihilus on a leash, was.. fun? Comics can be fun!

mh, Tuesday, 19 July 2016 14:09 (three years ago) link

Yeah, good call. Too bad that, again, his grueling time in the Negative Zone didn't seem to affect his personality for long.

Night Jorts (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 19 July 2016 14:12 (three years ago) link

I guess that's my main complaint about Bendis, nothing seems fun or novel, just a slog through ideas that could be interesting but come off like checkmarks on a list of plot progression waypoints.

I picked up a few of Al's new Ultimates issues in a comic shop and the cashier hadn't been reading them and the cover with the golden Galactus on it kind of gave him pause, because he actually wanted to read it to figure out what was going on. I'm not sure "oh, I guess Doom is Iron Man now" gives the same sort of sense of curiosity.

mh, Tuesday, 19 July 2016 14:14 (three years ago) link

But...it's a different suit of armor! The possibilities!

Night Jorts (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 19 July 2016 14:16 (three years ago) link

for sure, this one has green eyes

mh, Tuesday, 19 July 2016 14:20 (three years ago) link

feels like Bendis has been churning out plot long enough that everything is kind of bland

Bendis comics have been bland since 1994

Shakey δσς (sic), Tuesday, 19 July 2016 15:25 (three years ago) link

where'd I post that anecdote about overhearing dudes talking about Bendis? still funny

mh, Tuesday, 19 July 2016 15:27 (three years ago) link

I definitely went through a period of wading back into comics and picked up the collected crime fiction works and gave them away not long after

mh, Tuesday, 19 July 2016 15:28 (three years ago) link

Contrarian take: I like Bendis! Sure, not 100% of his stuff is good (agreed on the pointlessness of Age of Ultron) but the quality of his good stuff outweighs the bad easily imo

Nhex, Tuesday, 19 July 2016 16:23 (three years ago) link

I'm with you. The pre-Marvel stuff, though...not recommended. A large part of the reason it took me a while to get around to his Marvel stuff.

Night Jorts (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 19 July 2016 16:32 (three years ago) link

The two Iron Man titles were fun until recently when the Civil War stuff kicked in.

Aside from usual gripes (annoying panel layout, too much talking, his only idea for action scenes is "a big thing explodes") I do think he's a very good writer for a certain type of enjoyable, base-level Marvel comic. But he has no discipline, and everything he does becomes a slog after six issues.

Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 19 July 2016 16:54 (three years ago) link

A slog?
A slog.
You're saying his work becomes a slog.
Yes, a slog. After six issues.
Six issues?
Six issues.
Why six?
Because it's more than five.
More than five?
More than five.
...A slog?

Night Jorts (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 19 July 2016 16:56 (three years ago) link

[Hellicarrier explodes.]

Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 19 July 2016 17:16 (three years ago) link

What was the first egregious resurrection/retcon that started this trend? Did it happen before Jean Grey/X-Factor?

woke newt (stevie), Thursday, 21 July 2016 09:32 (three years ago) link

http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chronocomic/entries/uncanny_x-men_65.shtml

Although Xavier's behavior is consistent with his explanation for why he was pretending to be dead all this time. It turns out an alien race called the Z'Nox are heading to Earth on their planet/spaceship.

Their MO is to fly close enough to a planet that they intend to invade and let their planets' gravitational pull do all the work.

Xavier became aware of the Z'Nox while "engaged in telepathic star-scanning" and was "desperately seeking a means of countering it" when the Changeling showed up. Changeling had been diagnosed with a sickness that gave him 6 months to live, and he wanted to make up for the bad things he'd done in his life.

Xavier had him mimic him and "divide[d] some of my powers between him and Jean".

Well, i guess that settles why Xavier had to fake his death, putting his poor students through all that heartache (and forcing Jean, who knew about it, to lie to her friends), right? No? You say that if he needed some time to prepare, Xavier could have just asked his students to give him some alone time? Hrmm. I guess he hadn't thought of that. Also not even a token explanation as to why he wouldn't have reached out to the Fantastic Four or Avengers for help (even though the Avengers were providing minor support to the X-Men during the time period that Xavier was thought dead, and even though the FF are shown in this issue).

Tuomas, Thursday, 21 July 2016 09:42 (three years ago) link

Captain America returning in Avengers 4 seems like the start of this kind of thing, at least for Marvel (tho of course Cap hadn't actually died in the comics previously, just been cancelled - a fate worse than death for any comics character). Things like 'The Death of Superman' from 1961 also addressed the idea of superheroes being mortal; even tho it was an imaginary story, it clearly had a big effect on comic book readers of the time, and helped to establish the death/resurrection parallels between superheroes and Jesus.

Foster Twelvetrees (Ward Fowler), Thursday, 21 July 2016 09:42 (three years ago) link

And here it's confirmed that the intention was really to kill Xavier:

Per Roy Thomas in the intro to Marvel Masterworks: The X-Men vol. 4 (written in 2004):

"At the time, I believe it was our intention that he was really dead - as dead as Bucky Barnes, and that's dead, my friend - but I recall mentally leaving myself an "out" to bring him back, if we ever wanted to."

The "out" is using the Changeling, and that's what ultimately is used to bring Xavier back.

(xpost)

Tuomas, Thursday, 21 July 2016 09:46 (three years ago) link

Captain America returning in Avengers 4 seems like the start of this kind of thing, at least for Marvel (tho of course Cap hadn't actually died in the comics previously, just been cancelled - a fate worse than death for any comics character).

I'm not sure if this really counts since, as you said, it hadn't been established earlier that he was dead, and the "death" was introduced as a retcon in the same story he was resurrected. Later on they even had to do another retcon to explain why Cap had been active in the '50s, if he died in WWII.

Tuomas, Thursday, 21 July 2016 09:49 (three years ago) link

Possibly the Green Goblin?

Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 21 July 2016 09:58 (three years ago) link

Wasn't he revealed to be alive only in the mid-90s, i.e. a decade after the Jean Grey retcon?

Tuomas, Thursday, 21 July 2016 10:00 (three years ago) link

I get confused about Harry Osborn. Didn't JM DeMatteis kill him off in the early 90s?

Chuck_Tatum, Thursday, 21 July 2016 10:42 (three years ago) link

Yeah, he didn't come back until that Spidey super-retcon Brand New Day.

Nhex, Thursday, 21 July 2016 11:07 (three years ago) link

I'll have to have a flip through the old OHOTMU book of the dead to confirm, but my recollection is that not many major characters died before, like, the '80s, and when they did die (and it wasn't a one-issue feint or something) they generally stayed dead.

Night Jorts (Old Lunch), Thursday, 21 July 2016 12:39 (three years ago) link

Uncle Ben, Bucky, Osborns Norman and Harry, Gwen Stacy, Captain Marvel, Kraven...most of those deaths were Big Deals (some with storylines/graphic novels specifically dedicated to the event), and most have stuck or at least weren't undone until much later.

Night Jorts (Old Lunch), Thursday, 21 July 2016 12:41 (three years ago) link

Is that not just a factor of the fact that no-one was planning in the mid-term? And of course that no-one was planning, with those deaths, for their return at all.

(xp Tuomas completely OTM about Jean Gray prededeceasing Norman Osborne)

Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 21 July 2016 12:46 (three years ago) link

Preressurrecting, I assume you meant.

Night Jorts (Old Lunch), Thursday, 21 July 2016 12:50 (three years ago) link

On the rare occasions I dip into Marvel continuity since I stopped reading comics in like 1988 or so*, it strengthens my resolve to discount anything that happened in comics since I stopped reading in like 1988 or so. In my head, Gwen is still dead, etc, and it's a better place to be.

* Loved the Morrison and Whedon runs on X-men tho. I am corny.

woke newt (stevie), Thursday, 21 July 2016 12:54 (three years ago) link

Isn't the "real" Gwen Stacy still dead tho? AFAIK Spider-Gwen is a parallel universe version of her or something?

Tuomas, Thursday, 21 July 2016 12:56 (three years ago) link

I think Captain Marvel proved that the best way to kill a character and ensure he stays dead is to have him succumb to a real-life mortal illness. Because having someone come back from that would be considered bad taste, even if it makes no sense that Reed Richards or any of the other Marvel super-scientists haven't come up with a cure for cancer yet.

Tuomas, Thursday, 21 July 2016 12:58 (three years ago) link

don't tempt millar

thrusted pelvis-first back (ulysses), Thursday, 21 July 2016 13:07 (three years ago) link

Deadpool has cancer, and his rogue super-healing factor keeps him from dying - in theory without the cancer his cells would keep growing and kill him.

And that, I've just found out, is why Normal Osborne found a cure for cancer, put it in a bullet, and fired it at Deadpool.

Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 21 July 2016 13:23 (three years ago) link

See, these are plots I would have rejected for being too ridiculous back when I was a six-year-old playing with action figures.

woke newt (stevie), Thursday, 21 July 2016 13:49 (three years ago) link

I... kind of like that idea for taking out Deadpool, particularly coming from Osborne.

help

http://porno (DJP), Thursday, 21 July 2016 13:59 (three years ago) link

http://i.imgur.com/AcsCubh.jpg

mh, Thursday, 21 July 2016 14:01 (three years ago) link

Sauron makes a valid point

http://porno (DJP), Thursday, 21 July 2016 14:11 (three years ago) link

all we are is rice paper puppies

thrusted pelvis-first back (ulysses), Thursday, 21 July 2016 14:13 (three years ago) link

okay I can't deal with that

http://porno (DJP), Thursday, 21 July 2016 15:11 (three years ago) link

it's on marvel unlimited! gonna read it real quick.

thrusted pelvis-first back (ulysses), Thursday, 21 July 2016 15:18 (three years ago) link

surprise! it's remender in hateful and weird mode! and the purple man shows up at the end of the first issue. I will be stopping now.

thrusted pelvis-first back (ulysses), Thursday, 21 July 2016 15:23 (three years ago) link

two weeks pass...

Right now, my favorite Marvel book is Doctor Strange

― Very selfish, and very ironic (DJP), Wednesday, January 13, 2016 9:03 AM (6 months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I just started on this (copped the "Timely Comics" three-issues-in-one deal for $1) and, WOW.

Crazy Eddie & Jesus the Kid (Raymond Cummings), Tuesday, 9 August 2016 22:34 (three years ago) link

I think Aaron's easily the best staff writer at Marvel right now, but I find Strange kind of unreadable - maybe it's the art? Thor is a bit offgame too, compared to the 2012-5 stretch, but it's still fun.

Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 10 August 2016 01:21 (three years ago) link

I was a little chagrined about Aaron's move to Marvel because I wasn't crazy about some of his earlier stuff, but I have to admit he's really been knocking it out of the park.

Neither F.I.S.T. Nor Fletch (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 10 August 2016 01:28 (three years ago) link

Aaron's first year on Thor - it's one long story - is my fave comic of the past few years. Just this super fun, super-casual epic with no particular continuity. I kind of wish he'd go back to that style with the new Thor.

Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 10 August 2016 01:38 (three years ago) link

Was that the one with the Godkiller arc?

Nhex, Thursday, 11 August 2016 01:27 (three years ago) link

I'm a sucker for Chris Bachalo tho, especially having come up on his Shade the Changing Man.

Crazy Eddie & Jesus the Kid (Raymond Cummings), Thursday, 11 August 2016 21:30 (three years ago) link

Vision is _really_ good btw.

thrusted pelvis-first back (ulysses), Monday, 15 August 2016 20:01 (three years ago) link

Keep hearing good things about it. Will it make sense if you have no idea of current marvel universe, or is it all avengers linked?

The issues I read were almost completely isolated from the rest of the Marvel U

Don't boo, vote (DJP), Tuesday, 16 August 2016 02:03 (three years ago) link

they are and thank god. basically you can walk in knowing nothing and it's fine.

thrusted pelvis-first back (ulysses), Tuesday, 16 August 2016 05:01 (three years ago) link

Just read the first twos use, they're really fun! Robots arguing about grammar. So far I kind of prefer fhe quotidian stuff to the action stuff, but book's gotta have a plot I guess.

I get why people were interested In him doing Batman now - this seems a lot better, though?

Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 16 August 2016 07:21 (three years ago) link

*two issues

Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 16 August 2016 07:21 (three years ago) link

batman curdled on the third issue for me tbh
10 issues into vision and 9 into sheriff of babylon and they're both just about the best comix coming out right now on a monthly basis for my money
tom king has a very specific style and i like it a lot.
his run on vision ends at issue 12
http://www.vulture.com/2016/07/sheriff-of-babylon-comic-book-iraq-war.html

thrusted pelvis-first back (ulysses), Tuesday, 16 August 2016 16:29 (three years ago) link

imo Omega Men is the DC title written by Tom King to go by, not this Batman run that just started. Like Vision, it's divorced enough from continuity and editorial direction to be its own thing.

mh, Tuesday, 16 August 2016 17:32 (three years ago) link

Omega Men felt a little compressed at the end - like editorial told him he had to wrap it up before Rebirth - but until the last few issues its the best thing DC has done since Dial H.

EZ Snappin, Tuesday, 16 August 2016 18:39 (three years ago) link

we're all omega men now

mh, Tuesday, 16 August 2016 18:42 (three years ago) link

It was cancelled at 7 then given another 5 issues due to fan outcry.

Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 16 August 2016 19:38 (three years ago) link

man DC really has no clue what's good

mh, Tuesday, 16 August 2016 19:40 (three years ago) link

I couldn't get into Omega Men but I keep hearing good things. Should I try again and persist? I also couldn't get into Dial H, despite wanting to...

I think Tom King was also involved in Grayson, which I enjoyed.

salsa shark, Tuesday, 16 August 2016 19:58 (three years ago) link

The Omega Men series had an issue #0 I missed on first reading. It sets the stage for the first act, which is otherwise a little muddled although it's doing the work of setting up the basis for the rest of the series. The main plot turn is when their abductee, Kyle Raynor, finally sees why the group is fighting together, despite their different origins.

The actual rebellion/battle would have probably gone on much longer had the series continued, and expanded on the denouement, which nevertheless ends up with the gray moral resolution that the series deserves

mh, Tuesday, 16 August 2016 20:22 (three years ago) link

i agree about omega men being "compressed"; it's still notably better than about 95% of what DC has put out in the past five years.
i get the sense he really barely has any interest in writing batman but it pays super well and sells books.

thrusted pelvis-first back (ulysses), Tuesday, 16 August 2016 21:34 (three years ago) link

Such a boring character for writers. I'd do it in a second of course, but ugh.

I wish you could see my home. It's... it's so... exciting (Jon not Jon), Tuesday, 16 August 2016 23:49 (three years ago) link

from King's Ringer interview:

“Batman is its own beast,” King said. “It’s weird. I write these very thinky comics where there’s no hero. Sheriff doesn’t have a hero; no one at the end of it is gonna be like: ‘Yay! I triumphed and solved terrorism!’ Vision, at the end, it’s set up as a tragedy and I know how it ends, it’s tragic. What Batman is, is a story about a hero triumphant. The best thing Batman can do with me is to be a good comic that takes people a little bit outside of their day, where they can read and be like, ‘Holy shit!’ That gives you a jolt of pleasure. I’m not trying with Batman to be like, ‘OK, here I want to comment on the world.’ I want to make Die Hard.”

^ this "wtf am i doing here" ambivalence and a penchant for falling back on morrison-isms comes through loud and clear in his first three issues

thrusted pelvis-first back (ulysses), Wednesday, 17 August 2016 00:01 (three years ago) link

pretty sure it's being guided by editorial to use a bunch of characters and plot devices familiar with their movie and tv properties. as the gotham tv show season featuring hugo strange ends and the suicide squad movie comes out, we get batman dealing with... hugo strange and amanda waller

mh, Wednesday, 17 August 2016 00:03 (three years ago) link

what do you mean by morrison-isms?

Nhex, Tuesday, 23 August 2016 15:52 (three years ago) link

darkgrimgritty played through a stream of consciousness filter plus rapid fire mamet dialogue

thrusted pelvis-first back (ulysses), Tuesday, 23 August 2016 17:48 (three years ago) link

All respect, but that's the sort of misleading if not inaccurate description of Morrison I'd read in like USA Today

Two Kisses and Three Wet Mouths (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 23 August 2016 17:52 (three years ago) link

yeah, that is not really Morrison, imo

I thought you'd at least throw in the two or three speech vocalisms he spells out (*tch* or whatever) and uses every series

mh, Tuesday, 23 August 2016 17:58 (three years ago) link

It's 'tt'. Also 'UUUUIIIIIII' (scream emitting from otherworldly creatures).

Two Kisses and Three Wet Mouths (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 23 August 2016 18:18 (three years ago) link

thanks, I was going to google for examples at work but I knew you'd have my back :)

mh, Tuesday, 23 August 2016 18:25 (three years ago) link

Of course. It's one of the like four extremely niche and generally pointless things I'm good for.

Two Kisses and Three Wet Mouths (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 23 August 2016 18:29 (three years ago) link

i'm a fan of nnnnnaaaaaaAAAAAAAiiiii myself.
intelligent men differ but the psycho pirate stuff and ms. gotham doing the "I'm scared" bit put me in the mind of morrison. I've read my share of it!

thrusted pelvis-first back (ulysses), Tuesday, 23 August 2016 18:57 (three years ago) link

I believe that you have! That description doesn't do him justice, though (e.g. his employment of darkgrimgritty is almost always in the service of some loftier comment, rapid fire Mamet dialogue is way more Bendis than Morrison).

Two Kisses and Three Wet Mouths (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 23 August 2016 19:00 (three years ago) link

Trying too hard to be cool dialogue, I'll give you.

Two Kisses and Three Wet Mouths (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 23 August 2016 19:01 (three years ago) link

well, less mamet of the Bendis variety

"What did he tell you"
"the boss"
"no the other guy"
"what"
"of course the boss"
"well than just say the boss then"
"I gotta talk the way you want me to?"
"just say the boss"

and more of the staccato self referential variety
"i tried to save gotham"
"I know"
"But it just... You can't. You just can't"
"I know"
"Good bye batman"
"Good bye gotham"
KBAMMMM
"hmmm"

thrusted pelvis-first back (ulysses), Tuesday, 23 August 2016 19:06 (three years ago) link

as for the "loftier comment", i am not of the school that gives morrison carte blanche. i suppose king's point in this first run is that death changes a man, changes.... A CITY and that minus the meta is not much shallower than much of what I've read of GM as of late

thrusted pelvis-first back (ulysses), Tuesday, 23 August 2016 19:09 (three years ago) link

does anyone give morrison carte blanche? c'mon man everyone has good and bad work

mh, Tuesday, 23 August 2016 19:56 (three years ago) link

i find GMs stuff has a tendency to be overrated but i'm aware i'm in the minority in that for this board.

thrusted pelvis-first back (ulysses), Tuesday, 23 August 2016 21:46 (three years ago) link

I'd just like to rep for aaaaaaaauuuuuuuuu (melting robot)

Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 23 August 2016 21:53 (three years ago) link

^^^ thanking u for screen name

aaaaaaaauuuuuuuuu (melting robot) (WilliamC), Tuesday, 23 August 2016 22:05 (three years ago) link

Haha, you're welcome

Anyway I haven't seen folks mention the Waid/Samnee Black Widow, which just finished a super fun first six issues, and features lots of panels like this:

http://i.imgur.com/PQHmsOW.jpg

Also it's one of the few comics that reads really well on the app with Guided View - maybe better than in print, even

Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 23 August 2016 22:50 (three years ago) link

I think of "tt" as being something Morrison had Batman say - where else has he flogged it?

Shakey δσς (sic), Wednesday, 24 August 2016 00:25 (three years ago) link</