Every huge artist has their "New Jersey" - a huge event album that ultimately feels a bit hollow & signals a career decline

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from the Lady Gaga ARTPOP thread:

i have a theory that every super popular artist has a "New Jersey" - like Bon Jovi's album New Jersey -- where it's still super popular and even more popular than the albums that preceded it but there's some sense that the gig is up.

― Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, August 7, 2012 11:21 AM (41 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^^^
that'd be a nice thread (if it doesn't already exist)!

― mr.raffles, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 11:24 AM (38 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

btw dudes i was like a kid when New Jersey came out...but even me as just a fan, i kinda *wanted* to like New Jersey as much, and there was some sense that it was a "big deal" and i should like it and i bought the cassette but i think we all could sense it just wasn't *as good*...i'm not sure what critics thought but i bet they did, i didn't read reviews or have access to them.

so i wasn't talking critically.

but anyway like as time goes by you'll find that people going to gaga show would be way more jazzed about like "bad romance" than "edge of glory"...

like I'm trying to think of another example....Graduation is Kanye's New Jersey.....that's another example....

― Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, August 7, 2012 11:40 AM (22 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

You're black, white, beige, POLLa descent: Lady Gaga - Born This Way (poll)

― lex pretend, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 11:46 AM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

and people get on me about MY poll titles!

(j/k, i am curious to see how this one turns out...)

― Doctor Casino, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 11:49 AM (12 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Graduation is Kanye's New Jersey.....that's another example....

I think it's a stronger case to say 808s was his New Jersey

― keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, August 7, 2012 11:50 AM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i think of a band's New Jersey as their bigger but hollower victory lap album so def Graduation not 808s

― da croupier, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 11:54 AM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

"bigger" meaning bombast not necessarily sales

― da croupier, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 11:55 AM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

NJ had five top tens including two #1's and except for "Bad Medicine" they've all vanished from the face of the earth

― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, August 7, 2012 11:55 AM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

fuck that noise "I'll Be There For You" will always be there for me

― da croupier, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 11:56 AM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

"Born To Be My Baby" and "Lay Your Hands On Me" are definitely arena filler though

― da croupier, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 11:56 AM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

all i remember about "living in sin" is that the video seemed risque when i last saw it in elementary school

― da croupier, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 11:57 AM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

omg I had completely blocked "Living In Sin" from my memory

― keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, August 7, 2012 11:57 AM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

parents got upset when "Living in Sin" showed two mulleted youths defying society and good fashion taste and I think MTV banned it from playing during daylight hours or something

― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, August 7, 2012 11:57 AM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

seriously mad at all of you right now, gah

you are ruining my JAMC because all I can hear over "Catchfire" is the chorus to "Living In Sin"

― keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, August 7, 2012 11:58 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

To be a New Jersey:
- follow-up to a huge, (possibly) defining record
- has less and/or smaller hits than prev album - or - hits based more on momentum than appeal
- brings with it the feeling that the NEXT record (if there is one) will see the bottom fall out (relatively speaking)

Sound about right?

I'll go ahead and nominate 'Here's to Future Days.'

― mr.raffles, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 12:00 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

then I nominate Huey Lewis and the News' Fore!.

― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, August 7, 2012 12:01 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^^ SO otm

― mr.raffles, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 12:01 PM (38 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Did Around the World in a Day feel that way in '85?

― Eric H., Tuesday, August 7, 2012 12:02 PM (28 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:04 (five years ago) Permalink

Fore! is the fourth album by American rock band Huey Lewis and the News, released in 1986 (see 1986 in music). The album hit number one on the Billboard 200 album chart and contained five top-ten Billboard Hot 100 singles, including the number-one hits: "Stuck with You" and "Jacob's Ladder."

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:04 (five years ago) Permalink

this is American Life in a nutshell

keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:05 (five years ago) Permalink

or wait, is it Music? I think actually Music is the album that qualifies

I'm so bad at this

keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:06 (five years ago) Permalink

ZZ TOP - Afterburner

mr.raffles, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:07 (five years ago) Permalink

are we conflating "victory lap" albums with Huge Event Albums That Ultimately Feel Shallow?

cuz Music feels like both!

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:07 (five years ago) Permalink

Cher - Heart of Stone

mr.raffles, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:09 (five years ago) Permalink

how i phrased it in the other thread:

it's just an album that survived mostly on zeitgeist and professionalism that in hindsight served as a stopgap before a major drop or left turn

not everyone has one!

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:10 (five years ago) Permalink

This would technically have to be an album that really DID mark the end of an artist's era, right? Like, we're talking artists that only ascended to the apex once and then fell almost just as fast? If so, Madonna probably doesn't exactly qualify.

Eric H., Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:10 (five years ago) Permalink

ZZ TOP - Afterburner

― mr.raffles, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 12:07 PM (49 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^^bingo

Dan, for most people Madonna is an 80s artists or an early 90s artists at the very latest....she wasn't huge in pop culture by then, you could make a case for Erotica but i don't think she has a New Jersey.

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:10 (five years ago) Permalink

but either way madonna was no where near her zeitgiest or sales peak on ray of light, which is what i think dan is suggesting?

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:10 (five years ago) Permalink

R.E.M. - Monster

From Wikipedia:
Monster debuted #1 in the US and UK charts. "What's the Frequency, Kenneth?" and "Bang and Blame" were the band's last American Top 40 hits. Their following album New Adventures in Hi-Fi debuted at number two in the US and number one in the UK. The five million copies of the album sold were a reversal of the group's commercial fortunes of the previous five years.

Moka, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:11 (five years ago) Permalink

Mj's "bad"

Listen to this, dad (President Keyes), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:11 (five years ago) Permalink

Music doesn't count cuz "Don't Tell Me" is like one of her biggest late era hits and people love that album

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:11 (five years ago) Permalink

Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness.

skip, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:11 (five years ago) Permalink

An element of buyer's remorse also factors in. The "I realized one album too late that he/she/they were never all that."

Eric H., Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:11 (five years ago) Permalink

it's funny....Watch the Throne ISN'T one of these because of where it fits in their careers, but man does it FEEL like one.

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:12 (five years ago) Permalink

Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness.

― skip, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 12:11 PM (34 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^^great example

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:12 (five years ago) Permalink

xpost I mean, that's the pulse reading everyone's giving Born This Way now.

Eric H., Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:12 (five years ago) Permalink

Melon Collie has too many fans to count. Plus "1979"!

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:13 (five years ago) Permalink

Smashing Pumpkins fans aren't saying "oh man I can't even remember those Melon Collie singles"

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:13 (five years ago) Permalink

interesting though how some bands react to this: so I'd say Rattle & Hum is U2's New Jersey but their best albums came afterward; or am I f'ing this up?

Euler, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:14 (five years ago) Permalink

Monster is probably a much better mid 90s example of this though... Mellon Collie certainly has its "hollow" moments but "The End Is The Beginning Is The End" is probably the real beginning of the end for SP.

skip, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:15 (five years ago) Permalink

This would technically have to be an album that really DID mark the end of an artist's era, right? Like, we're talking artists that only ascended to the apex once and then fell almost just as fast? If so, Madonna probably doesn't exactly qualify.

well, the thing about being the end of Bon Jovi's era is that it was the end of the era where they got automatic radio play; they still sell out practically every venue they play and every album they've released since Slippery When Wet has hit the top ten, most often #1

so, I feel a lot of this is based on perception rather than actual performance; Ray of Light has sold more copies than Like A Prayer, for example

keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:16 (five years ago) Permalink

I don't want to admit Monster counts cuz I love it but the sheer number of copies sold back probably defines "buyer's remorse"

Rattle & Hum probably counts in that it was definitely followed by a left turn and people today would be like "um, Angel In Harlem was a top 20 hit? Really?"

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:16 (five years ago) Permalink

I get the sense artists don't recover from their New Jersey.

Eric H., Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:16 (five years ago) Permalink

Dancing on the Ceiling - Lionel Richie

mr.raffles, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:18 (five years ago) Permalink

xpost - Monster is, in many ways, the iconic Used CD.

on an indie rock level:

The Shins - Chutes too Narrow

interesting though how some bands react to this: so I'd say Rattle & Hum is U2's New Jersey but their best albums came afterward; or am I f'ing this up?

― Euler, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 12:14 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah but Rattle & Hum is a New Jersey...U2 just did the trick of pulling a Kid A after a New Jersey

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:18 (five years ago) Permalink

haha raffles is good at this

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:18 (five years ago) Permalink

Bon Jovi has certainly had a ton of hits and made a ton of cash since but it was definitely a game changer. Madonna doesn't quite work because basically she was Queen Shit and aging gracefully (with a mild mis-step around Erotica) and then made American Life.

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:18 (five years ago) Permalink

Human touch/Lucky town

Listen to this, dad (President Keyes), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:19 (five years ago) Permalink

well, the thing about being the end of Bon Jovi's era is that it was the end of the era where they got automatic radio play; they still sell out practically every venue they play and every album they've released since Slippery When Wet has hit the top ten, most often #1

Maybe then it's less a signpost of "career decline" and more a mass discovery of career limits that didn't previously seem obvious/relevant.

Eric H., Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:19 (five years ago) Permalink

Mj's "bad"

I would say it's probably Dangerous, that was MJ's first CD-length album and clearly was meant to be the start of a new era, free from QJ, on to a different sound, etc. etc. And there were a ton of singles from it but compared to Off the Wall, Thriller, and Bad, only maybe one of them is still ubiquitous today (and that one is one of his most routinely mocked).

frogbs, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:19 (five years ago) Permalink

Even less-huge artists have this. e.g., Replacements and Don't Tell a Soul.

something of an astrological coup (tipsy mothra), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:20 (five years ago) Permalink

Genesis - I Can't Dance (in re: the career of Phil Collins)

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:20 (five years ago) Permalink

Don Henley - The End of the Innocence

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:20 (five years ago) Permalink

that album still has a lot of respect for a Don Henley album - in Don's career I'd argue Eagles' Hell Freezes Over

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:21 (five years ago) Permalink

Wait a sec, what about NIN - The Fragile

frogbs, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:21 (five years ago) Permalink

nice one frogbs

skip, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:22 (five years ago) Permalink

yeah but i don't think a New Jersey is necessarily terrible or even critical reviled, it can be good and popular etc but there's this inexpressible sense that the era of this artist is slipping away even as they are super popular at the moment.

Wait a sec, what about NIN - The Fragile

― frogbs, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 12:21 PM (58 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^this would be a great pick but Trent lets too much time go in between albums, it was a different era when he reemerged, but if it were like a year or two after the downward spiral i'd be totally on board

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:23 (five years ago) Permalink

thing is, an album like End Of The Innocence or Melon Collie isn't loaded with the sense of somebody slipping away, it's just the last album they made before it happened.

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:24 (five years ago) Permalink

and with the pumpkins it's more like Madonna where they had to go and push the envelope too far on the next album

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:25 (five years ago) Permalink

Mellencamp "Lonesome Jubilee"

chr1sb3singer, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:25 (five years ago) Permalink

ultimately i am not the world's foremost don henley expert....so i will defer.

melon collie DID have some hits, and at least one (1979) that's beloved, but man even at the time that was a fucking SLOG

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:25 (five years ago) Permalink

I hate myself for writing this but... Wild Mood Swings

keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:26 (five years ago) Permalink

INXS - Welcome to Wherever You Are

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:26 (five years ago) Permalink

Mellencamp "Lonesome Jubilee"

― chr1sb3singer, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 12:25 PM (28 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^good one

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:26 (five years ago) Permalink

I hate myself for writing this but... Wild Mood Swings

― keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, August 7, 2012 1:26 PM (10 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

wouldnt wish be a better examp

Author ~ Coach ~ Goddess (s1ocki), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:26 (five years ago) Permalink

I wish Weezer's Make Believe had been one of these but they are just as popular as ever.

skip, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:26 (five years ago) Permalink

this would be a great pick but Trent lets too much time go in between albums, it was a different era when he reemerged, but if it were like a year or two after the downward spiral i'd be totally on board

I see what you mean, this is why I didn't really want to mention Human After All because the follow-up to Discovery would have been huge had it came out in 2003. But The Fragile still sold boatloads.

frogbs, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:27 (five years ago) Permalink

wouldnt wish be a better examp

NO SHUT UP I HATE YOU

keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:27 (five years ago) Permalink

yeah weezer's thing is too weird because their Led Zeppelin IV was perceived as a New Jersey when it came out and then things changed a few years later.

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:27 (five years ago) Permalink

wouldnt wish be a better examp

NO SHUT UP I HATE YOU

― keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, August 7, 2012 12:27 PM (4 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

haha your anger just confirms that Wish is a New Jersey.

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:28 (five years ago) Permalink

THE ALBUM EVERYONE LOVES followed by THE ALBUM EVERYONE BOUGHT followed by THE PROOF THINGS DONE CHANGED

with New Jersey in the middle - so albums that are adored by the fanbase (like Melon Collie) can't really qualify

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:28 (five years ago) Permalink

Fatboy Slim - Halfway Between the Gutter and the Stars is another one, maybe FBS was never really "huge" per se but that was the "wait, why did we make such a big deal out of this guy" moment

frogbs, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:28 (five years ago) Permalink

wouldnt wish be a better examp

NO SHUT UP I HATE YOU

― keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, August 7, 2012 12:27 PM (4 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

haha your anger just confirms that Wish is a New Jersey.

― Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, August 7, 2012 1:28 PM (33 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lolll

Author ~ Coach ~ Goddess (s1ocki), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:29 (five years ago) Permalink

You're right, I think REM and NIN fit that pattern though.

skip, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:29 (five years ago) Permalink

it's actually a real accomplishment to get a New Jersey - a lot of bands miss their window and go straight to PROOF THINGS DONE CHANGED

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:29 (five years ago) Permalink

WMS still went gold in the US

Bloodflowers then went gold in... Switzerland

keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:29 (five years ago) Permalink

Phil Collins "...But Seriously"

chr1sb3singer, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:30 (five years ago) Permalink

I am totally losing this argument aren't I

keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:30 (five years ago) Permalink

Frankie Goes To Hollywood - Liverpool. Or maybe even Welcome To The Pleasuredome, I remember the expectation around the album was huge but it seemed like a Grand Statement that fell pretty flat.

This is a UK thing btw.

don't slip in mud (Matt #2), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:30 (five years ago) Permalink

it's actually a real accomplishment to get a New Jersey - a lot of bands miss their window and go straight to PROOF THINGS DONE CHANGED

^^^ this

Eric H., Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:30 (five years ago) Permalink

hmm maybe downward spiral is the new jersey? but it's probably too good.

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:31 (five years ago) Permalink

NIN wasn't really huge until that album, though

frogbs, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:31 (five years ago) Permalink

I feel like some people aren't getting that a New Jersey isn't a flop, and isn't an album that still makes Best of the Decade lists

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:32 (five years ago) Permalink

I guess I could say Songs of Faith and Devotion? DM sales are kind of weirdly constant tho, esp in German-speaking countries

keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:32 (five years ago) Permalink

I think this theory explains many of the things I love about Born This Way. Being massively, zeitgeisty huge and still violently underrated and undervalued is tons of fun.

Eric H., Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:32 (five years ago) Permalink

I feel like some people aren't getting that a New Jersey isn't a flop, and isn't an album that still makes Best of the Decade lists

Right, no one will admit to either liking it, even though they own or owned it.

Eric H., Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:33 (five years ago) Permalink

either

Eric H., Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:33 (five years ago) Permalink

Fairweather Motherfucking Johnson

One Way Ticket on the 1277 Express (Bill Magill), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:34 (five years ago) Permalink

Pearl Jam - Vs.

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:35 (five years ago) Permalink

Afterburner is perfect - it was still a HIT ALBUM, but nobody loves it like Eliminator and by the next one the moment clearly passed. A key symptom of a New Jersey is to look at at the singles and see if you're surprised how high they charted.

Like say Cyndi Lauper's True Colors featuring the #3 hit "Change Of Heart"

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:36 (five years ago) Permalink

Stankonia

Spottie_Ottie_Dope, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:36 (five years ago) Permalink

Sgt Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:36 (five years ago) Permalink

A "New Jersey" is a big album (sometimes huge) that is basically only big becuz it is cresting on the interia of the previous record.

chr1sb3singer, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:37 (five years ago) Permalink

If he didn't die..."In Utero" would have been Nirvana's "New Jersey"

chr1sb3singer, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:38 (five years ago) Permalink

excuse me, waiter, i specifically asked for no challops

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:39 (five years ago) Permalink

Manic Street Preachers - This Is My Truth Tell Me Yours

Gavin, Leeds, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:39 (five years ago) Permalink

Ha, but still, all my friends were kind of over Nirvana before he died! It's a great record though

xpost

chr1sb3singer, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:40 (five years ago) Permalink

Floyd's The Final Cut went platinum in the USA & was #1 in the UK, I'll put it forward

Euler, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:40 (five years ago) Permalink

Dancing on the Ceiling - Lionel Richie

― mr.raffles, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 1

yes

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:40 (five years ago) Permalink

I'd think there was a Sting album that fit this criteria, but Ten Summoner's Tales is really one of his best and Mercury Falling was a commercial disaster.

frogbs, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:41 (five years ago) Permalink

Totally "The Final Cut", do people even know that record exists anymore?

chr1sb3singer, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:41 (five years ago) Permalink

A friend with whom I'm IM'ing said "Tunnel of Love" but that's not quite right

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:41 (five years ago) Permalink

PE's Greatest Misses felt this way to me at the time, but I don't know what its sales were like.

Euler, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:42 (five years ago) Permalink

Songs of Faith & Devotion is a good one. Not Rattle & Hum though - nobody would ever be under the impression that Joshua Tree had been supplanted. (that's the point, right? It looks for a while like the blockbuster's been beaten, then it ... just hasn't)

Ismael Klata, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:42 (five years ago) Permalink

I thought of "Tunnel of Love" but yeah it's not quite right, a "New Jersey" isn't a flop exactly, more like no one realizes it is a flop until they've owned it for six months

chr1sb3singer, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:43 (five years ago) Permalink

Cheap Trick- Dream Police

You got killer single and George Martin- should have been their victory lap and it was popular but they had kinda lost something and the slide to the state fair starts.

earlnash, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:43 (five years ago) Permalink

oh I think R&H is a perfect example!

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:43 (five years ago) Permalink

I gotta say, this is basically the perfect ILM thread

frogbs, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:43 (five years ago) Permalink

Tribe Called Quest - Beats, Rhymes, and Life

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:44 (five years ago) Permalink

Like say Cyndi Lauper's True Colors featuring the #3 hit "Change Of Heart"

wtf are you talking about, that is not a surprise at all

surprising is seeing that "I Drove All Night" hit #6

keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:44 (five years ago) Permalink

Tribe Called Quest - Beats, Rhymes, and Life

omg this is super OTM

keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:44 (five years ago) Permalink

Blur - The Great Escape

Ismael Klata, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:44 (five years ago) Permalink

True Colors also, erm, had a #1 single that unfortunately hasn't disappeared

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:44 (five years ago) Permalink

We have different working definitions of "huge event album."

Eric H., Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:45 (five years ago) Permalink

sorry I was not under the impression people still liked True Colors

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:46 (five years ago) Permalink

cyndi's third album didn't even go gold so if True Colors is just too damn good an album to be a New Jersey she doesn't have one

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:47 (five years ago) Permalink

Tusk was one of these, and then it got released

Ismael Klata, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:47 (five years ago) Permalink

R.E.M. - Monster

Insanity itself -- it's obviously AUTOMATIC FOR THE PEOPLE, which seemed huge at the time, but let's face it, in retrospect, R.E.M. as a hitmaker is "the band who recorded Losing My Religion" not "the band who recorded Drive." It sold a lot of copies at the time, though.

Guayaquil (eephus!), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:47 (five years ago) Permalink

people still rave about Automatic. I love Monster but the "#1 sold-back cd ever" thing is hard to ignore. Wish would qualify if Cure fans had abandoned it but I don't think that's the case.

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:48 (five years ago) Permalink

eephus otm, and I'd never realised before

Ismael Klata, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:49 (five years ago) Permalink

hit-wise you could talk about "the band who recorded Everybody Hurts"

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:49 (five years ago) Permalink

Wish would qualify if Cure fans had abandoned it but I don't think that's the case.

This is the main reason why I said Wild Mood Swings

keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:50 (five years ago) Permalink

actually yeah croup is right about True Colors, insofar as it's a piece of shit that coasted on momentum, and you never hear "What's Going On" and "Change of Heart" anymore.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:50 (five years ago) Permalink

you do in my house, buddy

keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:51 (five years ago) Permalink

I want video of you and the misses slow dancing to "What's Going On"

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:51 (five years ago) Permalink

The Verve - Urban Hymns

britpop rules this thread

Ismael Klata, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:51 (five years ago) Permalink

It's obviously not Automatic but Monster seems wrong because people immediately hated that album.

Listen to this, dad (President Keyes), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:52 (five years ago) Permalink

Be Hear Now?

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:52 (five years ago) Permalink

Be Here Now lol

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:53 (five years ago) Permalink

in American Urban Hymns was their only hit album and it looks like Richard Astbury's solo career did quite alright over in the UK so idgi - also don't critics still worship that album?

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:53 (five years ago) Permalink

Let It Come Down by Spiritualized might fit.

Sick Mouthy (Scik Mouthy), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:53 (five years ago) Permalink

lol Richard Ashcroft, sorry, freudian slip

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:55 (five years ago) Permalink

Then again, on the metric of "last.fm" plays, people are still listening to "Everybody Hurts," "Man in the Moon," and "Nightswimming" in large numbers -- who knew?

Actually, I think REM just fails to meet this pattern: looks like AFTP sold about as many copies as Out of Time but none of the singles charted higher than 28; "Everybody Hurts" topped at 29, and "Nightswimming," 5th most listened to REM song per last.fm, didn't even crack top 100.

None of these charted as high as "Losing My Religion" or "Shiny Happy People" or, for that matter, "What's the Frequency, Kenneth?" or "Bang and Blame."

Guayaquil (eephus!), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:55 (five years ago) Permalink

"What's Going On" isn't a slow dance song!

keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:55 (five years ago) Permalink

with REM isn't it New Adventures? it was obvious the gig was up but it still sold bucketloads; oh but I guess people on ILM defend this hunk of junk, blah

Euler, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:56 (five years ago) Permalink

"What's Going On" isn't a slow dance song!

shows you how long it's been since I heard it. I remember those goopy synths at the beginning

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:56 (five years ago) Permalink

with REM isn't it New Adventures? it was obvious the gig was up but it still sold bucketloads

No, because Monster sold as many copies and scored two more singles that charted higher

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:56 (five years ago) Permalink

whoops – thought this said Automatic. Time for lunch!

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:57 (five years ago) Permalink

yeah & they coasted into New Adventures' sales

xp right!

Euler, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:57 (five years ago) Permalink

Out Of Time, Automatic and Monster all sold 4 million copies stateside. New Adventures sold 1 million. Monster is famously the most sold back CD, now gets two-star reviews in publications when it came out to four stars - I hate to admit it but I don't know how it's not "THE ONE EVERYONE BOUGHT"

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:57 (five years ago) Permalink

Mj's "bad"

^^^ first thing I thought of

wk, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:59 (five years ago) Permalink

eephus's crazy REM theory is eating itself

Get wolves (DL), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:59 (five years ago) Permalink

you still hear "Bang & Blame" on the radio though; but "Bittersweet Me" was the biggest single on New Adventures and uh

Euler, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:59 (five years ago) Permalink

it's not like all the songs from New Jersey are banned from radio

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:00 (five years ago) Permalink

thread title just does not scan well with chorus of "Hungry Heart"

Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:01 (five years ago) Permalink

Billy Ocean - Love Zone

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:02 (five years ago) Permalink

why Love Zone and not Tear Down These Walls

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:03 (five years ago) Permalink

the fact that stipe so strenuously insisted that monster was 'totally punk rock' weighs in favor of its nj-osity

mookieproof, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:04 (five years ago) Permalink

Metallica - The Black Album

aspiring barkitect (silverfish), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:04 (five years ago) Permalink

only cuz TDTW only managed one massive #1 and the album charted lower.

xxpost

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:04 (five years ago) Permalink

Hmm how about In Through The Out Door? Pretty much un-listened to these days, apart from people on ilm obviously.

The album remained on the US top spot for seven weeks and sold three million copies by the end of September 1979.[9] It is also the Led Zeppelin album that has been most weeks on the top of the charts (tied along with Led Zeppelin II). To date, the album has sold six million copies in the US.

don't slip in mud (Matt #2), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:05 (five years ago) Permalink

TDDW had a top #3 hit with a cartoon duck in the video, so I don't think that album is a "CLEARLY THINGS HAVE CHANGED" album

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:06 (five years ago) Permalink

i'd say presence

mookieproof, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:06 (five years ago) Permalink

xpost where as the follow-up to TDDW is literally named Time To Move On

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:06 (five years ago) Permalink

Guns & Roses - Use Your Illusion 1 & 2

aspiring barkitect (silverfish), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:07 (five years ago) Permalink

"Bad" didn't follow the exact NJ formula, as it had hits that are still remembered, but there was a definite sense that things had gone sour after OTW and Thriller.

Listen to this, dad (President Keyes), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:07 (five years ago) Permalink

silverfish otm

mookieproof, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:08 (five years ago) Permalink

Cheap Trick- Dream Police

You got killer single and George Martin- should have been their victory lap and it was popular but they had kinda lost something and the slide to the state fair starts.

― earlnash, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 1:43 PM (22 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

George Martin didn't produce Dream Police, but did produce the follow-up, All Shook Up (which didn't sell too well, and didn't have any major hits).

Ironically, Dream Police was recorded before At Budokan was released.

Sun? Sun? It's your cousin, Marvin Ra (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:09 (five years ago) Permalink

but only one follow-up single scraping into the top twenty and the album stalled at platinum. Love Zone was his last event album.

xpost to croup.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:09 (five years ago) Permalink

ok i was only there as a little kid watching billy ocean videos with aliens, cartoon ducks and danny devitos so if you're really sure that the "Event" status of a billy ocean album had been lost and I missed it that's possible.

the thing about the NJ is that it's a bit of a dis. Hard to pin on someone like MJ because it requires implying "The Way You Make Me Feel" or "Remember The Time" was negligible in hindsight and good luck with that.

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:11 (five years ago) Permalink

Yep, MJ managed to sidestep having a New Jersey, unless the second disc of HIStory being smuggled in as part of a greatest hits counts. Even still, the singles from it are still pretty well regarded.

Eric H., Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:12 (five years ago) Permalink

if an artist is consistently good and doesn't have a quality drop-off before a commercial drop-off, they didn't really have a New Jersey.

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:12 (five years ago) Permalink

i have no idea what "Remember The Time" is, and I'm pretty sure I can sing every single off Thriller, so there's that

Guayaquil (eephus!), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:13 (five years ago) Permalink

yeah but you thought Automatic For The People was lost to the sands of time

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:14 (five years ago) Permalink

Destiny's Child - Survivor

MarkoP, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:16 (five years ago) Permalink

oh yeah it was clear Beyonce was in decline after that one

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:16 (five years ago) Permalink

These are really good points, I think:

Maybe then it's less a signpost of "career decline" and more a mass discovery of career limits that didn't previously seem obvious/relevant.

― Eric H., Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:19 (3 minutes ago) Permalink

It looks for a while like the blockbuster's been beaten, then it ... just hasn't)

― Ismael Klata, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:42 (11 seconds ago) Permalink

mr.raffles, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:16 (five years ago) Permalink

ok i was only there as a little kid watching billy ocean videos with aliens, cartoon ducks and danny devitos so if you're really sure that the "Event" status of a billy ocean album had been lost and I missed it that's possible.

the whole point of this thread is naked geekdom!

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:17 (five years ago) Permalink

i have no idea what "Remember The Time" is, and I'm pretty sure I can sing every single off Thriller, so there's that

bingo, Remember is a good single but not something you'll hear often 20 years from now (if you even hear it much today)

frogbs, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:17 (five years ago) Permalink

Afterburner, Rattle and Hum and Fore! look like the best contenders so far.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:18 (five years ago) Permalink

I picked Monster based on buyer's remorse. The last album that, in retrospective, most people ended up caring about from REM is Automatic for the People which makes Monster the one that signaled the gig was up, it also sold more than its predecessors and successors at the time. It fits perfectly with the criteria of the thread.

Moka, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:18 (five years ago) Permalink

The fact that it became the most sold-back album of all time tells you all you need to know. Lots of people bought it and lots of people stopped caring.

Moka, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:19 (five years ago) Permalink

xp: except that it's awesome

Guayaquil (eephus!), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:20 (five years ago) Permalink

Afterburner, Rattle and Hum and Fore! look like the best contenders so far.

― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, August 7, 2012 2:18 PM (2 minutes ago)

Should totally have the heavyweights compete in a most "New Jersey" poll after this runs its course!

mr.raffles, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:22 (five years ago) Permalink

and Dancing on the Ceiling

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:22 (five years ago) Permalink

To be a New Jersey:
- follow-up to a huge, (possibly) defining record
- has less and/or smaller hits than prev album - or - hits based more on momentum than appeal
- brings with it the feeling that the NEXT record (if there is one) will see the bottom fall out (relatively speaking)

Def Leppard's "Adrenalize" ... right? Or no?

alpine static, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:23 (five years ago) Permalink

definitely

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:23 (five years ago) Permalink

YES

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:24 (five years ago) Permalink

So is it that New Jerseys are way more common in rock than in pop or R&B or that people just expect artists to drop away in the latter 2 genres?

Eric H., Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:24 (five years ago) Permalink

i mean it's a little off in that New Jersey was huge and Adrenalize was merely a hit, but shit if MTV didn't play the video for "Make Love Like A Man" a ton anyway

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:24 (five years ago) Permalink

Yes' Big Generator maybe?

Sun? Sun? It's your cousin, Marvin Ra (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:25 (five years ago) Permalink

xposts If so, I love that BTW even sounds like it's trying to be a New Jersey.

Eric H., Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:25 (five years ago) Permalink

xp: based more on momentum than appeal, I assume

alpine static, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:25 (five years ago) Permalink

In penance for my challopsy stance on REM I would like to nominate Bossa Nova, which charted higher than Doollittle in both the US and UK. I think it's fair to say that "Velouria" and "Dig for Fire" are hardly listened to now compared to the earlier singles, but they were a big deal at the time.

Guayaquil (eephus!), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:25 (five years ago) Permalink

"Adrenalize" would have been even more of a "New Jersey" if had come out in say 1990 rather then 1992.

"Use Your Illusion 1 & 2" mention'd up thread is so otm it is kind of blowing my mind a bit

chr1sb3singer, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:27 (five years ago) Permalink

I can't decide if it's Kid A or the one that came after it.

Clarke B., Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:27 (five years ago) Permalink

Seriously, can we refrain from listing albums that sold less than a million copies, much less 5 million?

Eric H., Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:28 (five years ago) Permalink

idk if i had a special nose for these or anything but new jersey, adrenalize, and mellon collie all just seemed plain BAD to me at the time

goole, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:28 (five years ago) Permalink

Yes' Big Generator maybe?

I remember trying really hard to love "Rhythm of Love" as much as I did "It Can Happen" or "Leave It," but I dunno, this was well outsold by 90125 and had no huge hit like "Owner of a Lonely Heart"

Guayaquil (eephus!), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:28 (five years ago) Permalink

Bossanova totally sounds like a low-level Jersey to me

mr.raffles, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:29 (five years ago) Permalink

The Pixies discography is too short imho but Bossa Nova could definitely fit in this thread.

Moka, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:29 (five years ago) Permalink

I don't know how general consensus had it, this kind of thought applied to Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots for me for a while, until Embryonic brought something new. But since there's (surprisingly to me) only one album in between it muddies it a bit - with the novelty band ubiquitousness they managed to maintain over a fairly long period of not releasing much it feels like there had to have been a couple of other passable but uninteresting Yoshimi-style albums in there somewhere.

(500) Days of Sodom (Merdeyeux), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:30 (five years ago) Permalink

yeah I get Eric's "actual hit please" request but in hindsight Doolittle is clearly a bigger deal than Bossanova and the only people who even talk about Trompe Le Monde are people who thought the Pixies were consistently awesome (like me).

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:30 (five years ago) Permalink

Journey - Frontiers
REO Speedwagon - Good Trouble
Foreigner - Agent Provocateur
Styx - Kilroy Was Here

don't slip in mud (Matt #2), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:31 (five years ago) Permalink

Paula Abdul - Spellbound

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:31 (five years ago) Permalink

hah perfect

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:31 (five years ago) Permalink

yeah i don't think the pixies qualify here but frank black's solo career sure does. maybe his first solo album? idk

goole, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:32 (five years ago) Permalink

I dunno how big a deal it was but:

Rolling Stones - Goat's Head Soup

Ismael Klata, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:32 (five years ago) Permalink

Journey's Raised on Radio closer, Matt #2, no?

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:32 (five years ago) Permalink

I considered Bossanova my fave Pixies album for a long time. I still love it.

I understand it's not as good as Doolittle, etc., but it's a good record. And if nothing else, I don't think the bottom dropped out on Trompe Le Monde AT ALL. Yeah, there are a couple weak tunes in the second half, but overall it's great, too.

Could be that I just love the Pixies too much to see any of the albums as a NJ.

alpine static, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:33 (five years ago) Permalink

though actually the problem with the Pixies is that people weren't saying "oh the pixies they're over" when Trompe Le Monde came out or anything. That album still got them Buzz Bin status and high placement in critic charts - in general maybe it is a good idea to stick to actual chart heavies.

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:33 (five years ago) Permalink

man those Spellbound singles have vanished, in part, I hope, because everyone realized they were awful

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:33 (five years ago) Permalink

I love Spellbound. So it probably deserves to be mentioned in this thread.

Eric H., Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:34 (five years ago) Permalink

fwiw, i think keeping this to giant hits a la REM, U2, Def Leppard, etc., makes more sense than something like Frank Black's solo albums...i mean it's hard to even fathom shoehorning "NJ" status on like The Cult of Ray

alpine static, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:34 (five years ago) Permalink

Tho in that case, the problem was that it deviated too far from its predecessor. So "coasting off the last one" isn't really in play.

Eric H., Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:34 (five years ago) Permalink

and by Cult of Ray I meant Teenager of the Year

alpine static, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:35 (five years ago) Permalink

Also, "Rush Rush" gets played about as often as "Opposites Attract" and "The Way That You Love Me" these days, so *shrug*

Eric H., Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:36 (five years ago) Permalink

I can't decide if it's Kid A or the one that came after it.

― Clarke B.

You're probably joking but anyhoo:
Hail to the Thief did pretty good on sales and even though we don't know actual sales numbers 'In Rainbows' but it seemed like a big thing at the time. 'Nude' hitted the Top 40 charts (something which they hadn't managed since High and Dry) and it did pretty good with fans and critics. If anything The King of Limbs might be it but you'll have to wait for the next album to be sure.

Moka, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:36 (five years ago) Permalink

I think Ministry bricked too hard to qualify here otherwise I'd totally be repping Filth Pig

keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:36 (five years ago) Permalink

Some people in this thread are confusing the difference between an album they consider bad versus one that gave the overall perception that it was over. I never said Bossanova or Monster were bad albums, I actually like them a lot.

Moka, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:38 (five years ago) Permalink

But do you think Bossanova gave the overall perception that it was over? If anything I think Trompe Le Monde did that.

alpine static, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:39 (five years ago) Permalink

which it was, of course. sort of. for a while.

alpine static, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:39 (five years ago) Permalink

cult acts have a different but similar arc involving albums that seemed like potential breakthroughs that weren't in hindsight, shit like that deserves its own thread

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:40 (five years ago) Permalink

the ministry pick should be psalm 69 if you were an OG wax trax head but the sales numbers throw that one out, no?

xp hm lotta rules to this thing

goole, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:41 (five years ago) Permalink

well as an OG Wax Trax head I'd actually say A Mind Is A Terrible Thing To Taste is the answer but I know no one agrees with me; I did have Psalm 69 in there originally but for whatever reason a lot of people still like that thing

keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:42 (five years ago) Permalink

But do you think Bossanova gave the overall perception that it was over?

I do, and I think you see a lot of Bossanova in used-CD racks a la Monster.

Guayaquil (eephus!), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:42 (five years ago) Permalink

someone should have told spin

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:43 (five years ago) Permalink

also u2

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:43 (five years ago) Permalink

a lot of people in 1991 missed that the pixies were in decline

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:43 (five years ago) Permalink

I think Bossa gave the perception that they'd only likely be a marginal concern going forward, rather than breaking through into the mainstream.
In the slipstream of Doolittle, it kinda seemed anything was possible.

That WOULD be a nice separate thread.

mr.raffles, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:43 (five years ago) Permalink

Skimming 180+ posts, has anyone said Autoamerican? And does it qualify? Boatloads of people bought it for "Rapture," but many of my early-adopter Blondie-loving friends couldn't really hang with the lounge jazz or the pretensions of a lot of it.

David Allan Cow (Dan Peterson), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:45 (five years ago) Permalink

Tool - Lateralus

Legendary General Cypher Raige (Gukbe), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:46 (five years ago) Permalink

any album from this list of albums that sold less than half of their predecessors, including Filth Pig, should probably be out of contention: commercially disappointing major label rock/alternative albums of 1996

some dude, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:47 (five years ago) Permalink

Janet Jackson's last blockbuster from her 5 album run of being huge, All For You, probably deserves a mention

some dude, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:49 (five years ago) Permalink

I was trying to do Billy Joel, but I'm stymied by the fact that his last two records, which I think of as well past the point where he was at all relevant, were both massive hits and went to #1.

Guayaquil (eephus!), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:50 (five years ago) Permalink

xpost Totally! Can't believe I didn't think of that one.

Eric H., Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:51 (five years ago) Permalink

I'm stymied by the fact that his last two records, which I think of as well past the point where he was at all relevant, were both massive hits and went to #1.

That's part of the definition for being a New Jersey. That they were actually massive in every way but relevance.

Eric H., Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:52 (five years ago) Permalink

Storm Front's singles have too much staying power to count, and River Of Dreams might be disqualified for not having a follow-up

some dude, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:53 (five years ago) Permalink

Janet Jackson is a slightly unfair case because IMO what actually torpedoed her career was having Justin Timberlake expose her breast piercing to everyone watching the Superbowl halftime show rather than everyone deciding that everything was over when All For You came out, plus the placement for the singles off of it isn't really surprising/shocking

it also didn't help that large chunks of Damita Jo were terrible

keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:53 (five years ago) Permalink

Yeah, sad as it is I think "We Didn't Start The Fire" and "This is the Time" are both part of BJ's permanent record.

Guayaquil (eephus!), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:56 (five years ago) Permalink

Surely Load is the Metallica entry. Loads of hype, huge event, biggest first week seller of the year (and Metallica's career), and then people listened to the thing and went "...eh." It's not a bad album but the magic is gone, and everything since has been awful.

Leonard Pine, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:57 (five years ago) Permalink

I was trying to do Billy Joel, but I'm stymied by the fact that his last two records, which I think of as well past the point where he was at all relevant, were both massive hits and went to #1.

― Guayaquil (eephus!), Tuesday, August 7, 2012 1:50 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

billy joel is kind of weird because he was very popular in multiple decades and sort of distinctive eras....like the "Uptown Girl: A Tribute to 80's Billy Joel" joke in Step Brothers....

it's like, if Graceland existed in a vacuum in Paul Simon's career, Rhythm of the Saints might be a New Jersey, but obviously you'd have to ignore the rest of his career....

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:59 (five years ago) Permalink

but yeah Use Your Illusion 1 & 2 is sort of so accurate to this thread I'm shocked it took that long to get posted, and why didn't I think of that?

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:00 (five years ago) Permalink

how about "the next Fun. album"

alpine static, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:00 (five years ago) Permalink

it is an endless source of amusement to me that Billy Joel has an album called Storm Front

I keep wanting to googleproof the name

keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:01 (five years ago) Permalink

Janet Jackson is a slightly unfair case because IMO what actually torpedoed her career was having Justin Timberlake expose her breast piercing to everyone watching the Superbowl halftime show rather than everyone deciding that everything was over when All For You came out, plus the placement for the singles off of it isn't really surprising/shocking

it also didn't help that large chunks of Damita Jo were terrible

― keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, August 7, 2012 2:53 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark

i think the latter is key here -- the Justin thing didn't help but i don't really envision some scenario where Damito Jo was a success, none of those songs were ever gonna be chart-topping smash hits.

some dude, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:01 (five years ago) Permalink

Oh btw I'll defer to a goon expert on this for a ruling but I feel like T.I. probably has a New Jersey but I'm not quite sure which one it is.

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:02 (five years ago) Permalink

wouldn't the Velvet Rope be Janet Jackson's New Jersey?

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:02 (five years ago) Permalink

re: Metallica - Load

I remember people being pretty much immediately disappointed with Load, which doesn't really fit the definition of a New Jersey.

xxxxxpost

aspiring barkitect (silverfish), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:03 (five years ago) Permalink

T.I. Vs. T.I.P. would be a New Jersey in that it sold well without anyone really liking it or remembering the singles but then Paper Trail came next and was huge

some dude, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:03 (five years ago) Permalink

incidentally i have a friend who, anytime Bon Jovi is mentions, says something about how huge New Jersey was and every time i'm like "uh pretty sure you mean Slippery When Wet"

some dude, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:03 (five years ago) Permalink

Ha yes, the Use Your Illusions out-New Jersey New Jersey

Ismael Klata, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:03 (five years ago) Permalink

could the new Rick Ross be his New Jersey or was that the last one?

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:04 (five years ago) Permalink

I'm probably SO wrong, but for Janet, I'd probably go with "janet."

Looking at the list of singles on wiki, there's a lot of "eh?" there (for me)... and, in the US at least, her follow-up albums/singles didn't feel as effortlessly culturally relevant.

I feel like I believe this, but also feel like I'm grasping a bit. hahaha

mr.raffles, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:04 (five years ago) Permalink

People were really into Use Your Illusion 1 & 2. Everybody was listening to it and it was all over the radio. But these days when people think about 1991-1992 they just remember Nirvana/Pearl Jam/etc.

aspiring barkitect (silverfish), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:05 (five years ago) Permalink

They released 10 singles from the Use Your Illusions.

aspiring barkitect (silverfish), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:06 (five years ago) Permalink

listening to Damita Jo right now, I'm kind of getting the sense that aside from "All Nite (Don't Stop)" they actively chose some of the worst songs on the album to release as singles

I say "some of" because at least they had the sense to not try to release "Strawberry Bounce" as a single

also it's pretty well documented from Janet's/Jermaine's side that the label basically treated them like pariahs and didn't support the album at all after the Superbowl incident, which was only two months before the album was released (and it didn't help that, in the wake of a national nudity scandal, Janet released an album full of "oh hey guess what, everything is dirty dirty sex!" songs)

keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:06 (five years ago) Permalink

re: Metallica - Load

I remember people being pretty much immediately disappointed with Load, which doesn't really fit the definition of a New Jersey.

xxxxxpost

― aspiring barkitect (silverfish), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:03 (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Ah, but they still bought it! Singles performed well too.

Leonard Pine, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:07 (five years ago) Permalink

also maybe this is an R&B radio vs pop radio thing but Janet was basically omnipresent and inescapable right up until the Superbowl, after which she basically disappeared without a trace until "All Nite (Don't Stop)" got some grudging video play because it's so awesome; she didn't reappear as an artist anyone cared about until "Feedback" and that only lasted for about three weeks

keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:09 (five years ago) Permalink

Did you know SUPPOSED FORMER INFATUATION JUNKIE went triple platinum?

Guayaquil (eephus!), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:09 (five years ago) Permalink

Although thinking about it I guess Load never did have that THIS IS GREAT! IT REALLY IS! thing going for it before everyone collectively forgot about it.

Leonard Pine, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:10 (five years ago) Permalink

i would definitely include River Of Dreams. All For You is Janet's if she has one - I like the hits but they do seem slight compared to previous albums.

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:11 (five years ago) Permalink

Argument against River of Dreams: would anyone at the time have thought it likely that it was Joel's last record?

Guayaquil (eephus!), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:12 (five years ago) Permalink

I would agree All For One would be Janet's, I just don't know if the situation actually works given the whole Superbowl fiasco

Had that not happened, we could be saying that Damita Jo is her New Jersey

keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:12 (five years ago) Permalink

xpost doesn't matter - River was a big hit album with practically no songs anyone gives a shit about and the follow-up was a huuge bomb. admittedly it was a classical album but hey i didn't put a gun to his head

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:13 (five years ago) Permalink

ooh wait, would Sting's Brand New Day count?

keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:16 (five years ago) Permalink

or actually Sacred Love, which I forgot existed and has a song on it that won a Grammy?

keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:18 (five years ago) Permalink

I'm torn on The Eminem Show....it *should* be but I don't know, might just be a crappy followup record to a hit.

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:21 (five years ago) Permalink

btw guys i'm listening to New Jersey on Spotify right now

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:22 (five years ago) Permalink

yeah eminem show was followed by "lose yourself" so no career decline there

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:23 (five years ago) Permalink

Hard-pressed to say that janet. was coasting on anything.

Eric H., Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:23 (five years ago) Permalink

ooh wait, would Sting's Brand New Day count?

maybe that's the one I'm thinking of. the problem is that Mercury Calling went in between that and Ten Summoner's Tales and his commercial career definitely took a hit there. for a lot of his audience it maybe was The Dream of the Blue Turtles. I think Brand New Day had those moments that were good and the singles off it did well, but there was a feeling of "this is almost certainly going to be his last big single" there

frogbs, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:24 (five years ago) Permalink

I could buy Velvet Rope being her NJ, tho, in that it did seem to announce that her era was ending (despite the album being as interesting as anything before it).

Eric H., Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:24 (five years ago) Permalink

I don't think Joel's classical album counts as a "followup" and I think the title song from River of Dreams remains pretty inescapable twenty years later.

Guayaquil (eephus!), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:25 (five years ago) Permalink

yeah eminem show was followed by "lose yourself" so no career decline there

― da croupier, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 2:23 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

oops yeah forgot about 8 Mile....which is weird because in a way that movie and single is *actually* his high watermark in terms of dominating the culture, even moreso than albums that sold more...

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:27 (five years ago) Permalink

i dunno if sting ever had a "everybody bought that and no one knows why" moment on his way to the "nobody cares but your mom" zone.

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:30 (five years ago) Permalink

I can't decide if it's Kid A or the one that came after it.

In strictly commercial terms, Kid A would be the closest (unless it wasn't big enough to qualify) :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiohead_discography

OK Computer was 3x platinum in the UK and Canada, 2x platinum in the US. Kid A went platinum in all three countries. Amnesiac and every subsequent album only went gold in the US (although Thief went platinum in the UK and they continued to maintain platinum sales in Canada).

EveningStar (Sund4r), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:30 (five years ago) Permalink

I could buy Velvet Rope being her NJ, tho, in that it did seem to announce that her era was ending (despite the album being as interesting as anything before it).

yeah i don't think it passes the "ultimately feels a bit hollow" test

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:31 (five years ago) Permalink

Radiohead's New Jersey is probably Hail to the Thief

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:35 (five years ago) Permalink

it's not all sales or charts or singles guys....a "New Jersey" is a *feeling* too

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:35 (five years ago) Permalink

Y E S

mr.raffles, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:36 (five years ago) Permalink

it's not all sales or charts or singles guys....a "New Jersey" is a *feeling* too

Well, yeah, in that sense, I don't think Radiohead has had a New Jersey. In Rainbows is their best work imo.

EveningStar (Sund4r), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:37 (five years ago) Permalink

yeah, it's REAL HARD for a critical favorite to have one of these, otherwise they wouldn't be a critical favorite

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:39 (five years ago) Permalink

Love this thread btw. New Jersey was the first album I ever got (that wasn't e.g. something taped off my Mum's friend's kid or something). IIRC, the local album rock station played the whole thing when it came out. Even then, I think I kind of felt that it was an event yet not quite the same as "You Give Love a Bad Name" and "Livin' on a Prayer".

EveningStar (Sund4r), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:39 (five years ago) Permalink

trying to figure out which Garth Brooks record was his New Jersey...probably Sevens? 10x platinum, but when's the last time you heard "Longneck Bottle" (a #1) on the radio? Plus it's followed by a live album & the Chris Gaines thing.

Euler, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:40 (five years ago) Permalink

yeah that sounds right

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:40 (five years ago) Permalink

It's too soon to give a nod to Green Day's 21st Century Breakdown but if that new single is any sign of where they're headed, jesus

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:41 (five years ago) Permalink

Is it that a NJ feels a little bit hollow or makes you feel that everything before it was also hollow and you just didn't notice it until NJ came along?

Eric H., Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:42 (five years ago) Permalink

the former, I think. Latter seems overly personal an experience.

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:43 (five years ago) Permalink

Something that was a little surprising for me was the realization that for some Pumpkins fans who were born in the mid-80s (I dated one), the band really starts with Mellon Collie and Adore is a completely beloved album.

To compare, I've totally known young Bon Jovi fans who got on the bus with "Bed of Roses" or "It's My Life" or some shit but I've never known someone whose interest was sparked by New Jersey and has no interest in Slippery When Wet.

EveningStar (Sund4r), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:43 (five years ago) Permalink

man listening to New Jersey is weird....when I pulled it up on Spotify, the song titles "Born to Be My Baby" and "Living in Sin" didn't even register with me, but hearing them I realized I'd heard them a zillion times.

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:45 (five years ago) Permalink

"Born to Be My Baby" was totally my favourite (when I was 9).

EveningStar (Sund4r), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:45 (five years ago) Permalink

Since it was the first album I got, I know the damn thing inside out. Have really vivid memories of the liner notes, even.

EveningStar (Sund4r), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:46 (five years ago) Permalink

"Living in Sin" is totally what would happen if Bruce Springsteen wrote "Father Figure" by George Michael

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:46 (five years ago) Permalink

That was kind of brilliant!

EveningStar (Sund4r), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:46 (five years ago) Permalink

was "In the Zone" Britney's New Jersey?

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:47 (five years ago) Permalink

what is Tori Amos's New Jersey? The one where the pig is sucking on her boob?

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:47 (five years ago) Permalink

Sevens and All For You are otm

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:48 (five years ago) Permalink

what is Tori Amos's New Jersey? The one where the pig is sucking on her boob?

I dunno: that reocrd and its followup are beloved by her fans!

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:48 (five years ago) Permalink

I get the logic for In The Zone but it could be argued that Blackout and Circus were still certainly "events" and she's still hitting #1 and making fans happy - plus ITZ has it's fair share of hits (i.e. "Toxic").

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:50 (five years ago) Permalink

Tori Amos has never been in spitting distance of a huge event album

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:51 (five years ago) Permalink

was "In the Zone" Britney's New Jersey?

― Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:47 (14 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

But after that album her music suddenly became amazing! A false start New Jersey

Leonard Pine, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:52 (five years ago) Permalink

actually wow, never realized she hit double platinum - but she's still more of a megacult than a hitmaker

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:52 (five years ago) Permalink

tori, i mean

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:52 (five years ago) Permalink

yeah but hitting number one by then didn't really mean that much.

like using myself as an example, i think for many many people that don't really care either way, "Toxic" is the last Britney Spears song we know about.

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:53 (five years ago) Permalink

(wrt britney)

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:53 (five years ago) Permalink

How about Black Crowes "Southern Harmony & Musical Companion"?

The album debuted at number 1 on the Billboard 200. The effort spawned the singles "Remedy", "Sting Me", "Thorn in My Pride" and "Hotel Illness", all of which topped the Billboard Album Rock Tracks chart. "Remedy" and "Thorn in My Pride" also charted on the Hot 100 in 1992.

o. nate, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:53 (five years ago) Permalink

xpost so In The Zone is her New Jersey for older men, is what you're saying

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:54 (five years ago) Permalink

"Toxic" is the last Britney Spears song we know about.

"Toxic" isn't even her biggest hit!

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:55 (five years ago) Permalink

xp New Green Day album is split into three, two months apart, so it's hard to tell how that will pan out but 21CB has New Jersey written all over it - similar to the one before, only bigger and less good.

I'm no Chili Peppers fan but By the Way or Stadium Arcadium would seem to qualify.

21CB makes me wonder about bands who survive their New Jerseys and how many times they can do it. Like Green Day were in serious trouble but rebounded with American Idiot, now they seem a bit lost again. U2 are the only big band I can think of who rebounded twice (with Achtung Baby and All That You Can't Leave Behind) - three times seems impossible for anyone.

Get wolves (DL), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:55 (five years ago) Permalink

every generation of rock crits gets the new jersey they deserve

the late great, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:56 (five years ago) Permalink

Gimme More
Womanizer
Hold It Against Me
Till The World Ends
I Wanna Go

^^^ all bigger than "Toxic" from albums that suddenly got her more respect

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:57 (five years ago) Permalink

on the other hand it wouldn't surprise me if "Toxic" became her signature song.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:58 (five years ago) Permalink

I came here to say Mellon Collie, but it's already been said. I adore (pun unintended) that album.

Quickly, take hold of my hand, asshole! (dog latin), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:58 (five years ago) Permalink

I would agree All For One would be Janet's, I just don't know if the situation actually works given the whole Superbowl fiasco

Had that not happened, we could be saying that Damita Jo is her New Jersey

― keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, August 7, 2012 3:12 PM (45 minutes ago) Bookmark

c'mon there's no song on Damita Jo that could be plausible as a #1 pop hit even w/o the super bowl

some dude, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 19:59 (five years ago) Permalink

Thinking out loud here...is "How to Dismantle an Atomic Bomb" U2's?

chr1sb3singer, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:00 (five years ago) Permalink

pastsex/lovesounds

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:02 (five years ago) Permalink

xp Absolutely. Maybe Pop too but I think that was perceived as a dud right away.

Get wolves (DL), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:02 (five years ago) Permalink

That might qualify!

xpost

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:02 (five years ago) Permalink

Pop followed by their second best selling album of the Soundscan era.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:02 (five years ago) Permalink

c'mon there's no song on Damita Jo that could be plausible as a #1 pop hit even w/o the super bowl

she didn't need a #1, just a top 5; given some of her other hits, "Just A Little While" or "All Nite (Don't Stop)" could conceivably had gotten there if they'd gotten the same type of saturation push that "All For You" and "Someone To Call My Lover" received even considering that at least one is blatantly inferior to those two singles

keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:03 (five years ago) Permalink

yeah Atomic Bomb is good - they really tried hard to worm out another hit off that album after "vertigo" and failed

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:04 (five years ago) Permalink

Listening to Rhythm Nation in the car a couple weeks ago with friends we wondered how Janet's sales and saturation could have so utterly collapsed after 2002 without the record company actively sabotaged her, as someone posted above.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:06 (five years ago) Permalink

*sabotaging

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:07 (five years ago) Permalink

xp I'm unsure about the definition here. I was basing it on da croupier's "served as a stopgap before a major drop or left turn", with ATYCLB as the left turn (or right turn). If the only option is a major drop then by definition you can't come back from a New Jersey. But I like records that feel at the time like the beginning of the end but turn out not to be, I guess because they're an encouraging change from the usual narrative of irreversible decline.

Get wolves (DL), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:07 (five years ago) Permalink

yeah the problem with pop is that it wasn't a stopgap, it was a bomb

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:08 (five years ago) Permalink

what about....

Bowie's Tonight

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:08 (five years ago) Permalink

xpost so In The Zone is her New Jersey for older men, is what you're saying

― da croupier, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 2:54 PM (17 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

waiting on a text from someone from a more desirable demographic who doesn't own any silkworm albums

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:12 (five years ago) Permalink

True. Forget Pop. Tonight's a good one.

Get wolves (DL), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:13 (five years ago) Permalink

setting aside the fact that Damita Jo just isn't that great compared to the run of Janet albums preceding it starting with Control, you really can't downplay the effect that zero label support, limited radio play and a blanket ban by MTV on its videos was going to have on the performance of that album

add in the quality of the album and it's even grimmer

keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:14 (five years ago) Permalink

Celebrity Skin

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:14 (five years ago) Permalink

Actually Bowie might be the only artist with two New Jerseys:

Tonight & Alladin Sane

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:14 (five years ago) Permalink

um a lot of people like Aladdin Sane

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:15 (five years ago) Permalink

yeah it's one of his best

the late great, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:15 (five years ago) Permalink

I'm not sure the concept works before the 80s tbh

Get wolves (DL), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:15 (five years ago) Permalink

"jean genie", "panic in detroit", etc

what concept?

the late great, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:16 (five years ago) Permalink

Presence definitely seems like a right answer: IIRC it went #1 on the strength of advance orders but despite the ILM love, when's the last time you heard "Candy Store Rock" or "Tea for One" (as opposed to "Kashmir" or even "Trampled Underfoot")? And then came that goofy pop record.

xposts!

EveningStar (Sund4r), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:17 (five years ago) Permalink

right but it didn't signal a career decline, unless you mean "John Bonham choked on his own vomit soon after"

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:17 (five years ago) Permalink

xp The concept being discussed in this here thread

Get wolves (DL), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:18 (five years ago) Permalink

I mean even if Aladdin Sane weren't good (which it is), the idea of an "event album" is one I associate with the 80s onwards. Bowie moved so fast from record to record, and didn't sell a huge amount, in the 70s that you don't get a hard-to-follow commercial high until Let's Dance.

Get wolves (DL), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:19 (five years ago) Permalink

right but it didn't signal a career decline, unless you mean "John Bonham choked on his own vomit soon after"

I do see In Through the Out Door as a decline but, yeah, their career as a band ended after one more album so fair point.

EveningStar (Sund4r), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:20 (five years ago) Permalink

Boston - Don't Look Back?

EveningStar (Sund4r), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:22 (five years ago) Permalink

i feel like i get this but i still dont know

what is pearl jam's new jersey? no code?

what about jay-z's? blueprint 2, black album and kingdom come all feel like they count for a variety of reasons

max, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:22 (five years ago) Permalink

No Code was too big a dropoff in sales (and Vitalogy doesn't count because its hits had staying power), so i don't think Pearl Jam has one.

if Jay-Z has one it's Kingdom Come or American Gangster, but post-retirement thing makes that fit weird

some dude, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:25 (five years ago) Permalink

if PJ has one it's probably No Code, but i feel like they pulled a Sting and managed to shift into emeritus status without a real "why do I own this?" moment - admittedly in part because few bought it.

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:26 (five years ago) Permalink

bet No Code might have been a new jersey if the first single was "hail, hail" instead of "who you are"

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:29 (five years ago) Permalink

Can we say Nickelback has had a New Jersey yet? Maybe Dark Horse?

keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:34 (five years ago) Permalink

yeah Dark Horse definitely

some dude, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:34 (five years ago) Permalink

btw I've been listening to All For You this weekend and WAU @ "Son of a Gun", I used to go to BAT for this song and I have no fucking idea why

keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:34 (five years ago) Permalink

lol

some dude, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:36 (five years ago) Permalink

Somebody said Genesis' We Can't Dance upthread and that's otm

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:37 (five years ago) Permalink

MANIC PIXIE DREAM ALBUM THE THREAD

MUBU gai pan (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:37 (five years ago) Permalink

what?

thomp, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:37 (five years ago) Permalink

more like "manic pixie dream troll"

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:38 (five years ago) Permalink

yeah i retract alladin sane, good points

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:40 (five years ago) Permalink

MANIC PIXIE DREAM ALBUM THE THREAD

― MUBU gai pan (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, August 7, 2012 3:37 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

huh?

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:41 (five years ago) Permalink

The 257th in the Pearl Jam bootleg series totally qualifies here

Ismael Klata, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:41 (five years ago) Permalink

haha

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:43 (five years ago) Permalink

waht is springsteens new jersey

thomp, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:44 (five years ago) Permalink

The River

EZ Snappin, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:49 (five years ago) Permalink

Human Touch/Lucky Town was mentioned upthread and definitely fits

some dude, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:49 (five years ago) Permalink

not sure Springsteen fits in this category. Human Touch-Lucky Town flopped and didn't produce any big singles either. He spent the rest of the nineties after "Streets of Philadelphia" going purposefully low key.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:50 (five years ago) Permalink

Nobody ever rated or bought those two records.

xpost

As Alfred said he doesn't really fit, though you rarely hear the singles from Tunnel Of Love anymore. But people still rate it highly.

EZ Snappin, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:52 (five years ago) Permalink

I suppose we can debate how much his going low key dependend on a shrewd study of sales trends and market forces.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:52 (five years ago) Permalink

hey um can someone explain what whiney meant w/that post? even google doesn't come up with "manic pixie dream album"...there is some band called 1976 that had an album call manic pixie dream girl, then some articles about zooey deschnel?

xpost

i think tunnel of love is too much of a purposeful stylistic shift to be a new jersey

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:54 (five years ago) Permalink

Tom Petty-Wildflowers

Several hits, but only one with true staying power. And She's The One was the follow-up.

Jeremy Spencer Slid in Class Today (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:57 (five years ago) Permalink

hey um can someone explain what whiney meant w/that post?

I don't think anyone actually cares enough to decipher, tbh

keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:57 (five years ago) Permalink

Wildflowers sounds like a perfect fit but it IS widely loved (even by Petty himself).

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:58 (five years ago) Permalink

Beastie Boys' To The 5 Boroughs?

Ismael Klata, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:58 (five years ago) Permalink

xpost: i just assumed he's making fun of people who like the pixies. so yay for him.

alpine static, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 20:59 (five years ago) Permalink

"manic pixie dream girl" is a movie character archetype, coined by whiney's wu tang/simpsons stan bizarro world av club equivalent nathan rabin, which people forever argue over the definition and appropriate examples of.

some dude, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 21:00 (five years ago) Permalink

I don't think there was any expectation that "Boroughs" would be huge by the time that came out.

mr.raffles, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 21:00 (five years ago) Permalink

lol xp

reductio ad burzum (flopson), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 21:02 (five years ago) Permalink

the only beasties that would even be close is Ill Communication, but i don't really think so

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 21:03 (five years ago) Permalink

"manic pixie dream girl" is a movie character archetype, coined by whiney's wu tang/simpsons stan bizarro world av club equivalent nathan rabin, which people forever argue over the definition and appropriate examples of.

― some dude, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 4:00 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ok so he doesn't like this thread or something?

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 21:04 (five years ago) Permalink

apparently

some dude, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 21:05 (five years ago) Permalink

hey whiney sorry you don't like this thread also have you considered the possibility that you've disappeared up your own butt?

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 21:06 (five years ago) Permalink

manic pixie dream ilx

thomp, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 21:07 (five years ago) Permalink

manic pixie dream journalism career

thomp, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 21:07 (five years ago) Permalink

Is manic pixie dream really circling the drain?

alpine static, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 21:09 (five years ago) Permalink

Getting butthurt about a thread like this on a place like ILM is kind of a "New Jersey" if you think about it

chr1sb3singer, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 21:09 (five years ago) Permalink

or maybe a "Neither Fish Nor Flesh"

mr.raffles, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 21:12 (five years ago) Permalink

okay I was going to complain about everyone turning this into a thread about Whiney but ^^^ lol

keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 21:14 (five years ago) Permalink

Has anyone mentioned 'Be Here Now' yet?

Michael B Higgins (Michael B), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 21:15 (five years ago) Permalink

aaanyway

Helmet's New Jersey is Betty, happy now?

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 21:15 (five years ago) Permalink

Has anyone mentioned 'Be Here Now' yet?

yep

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 21:16 (five years ago) Permalink

Shania Twain - Up!
George Michael - Listen Without Prejudice Vol. 1
Norah Jones - Feels Like Home

prolego, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 21:16 (five years ago) Permalink

Be Here Now was instant letdown though, I'm minded to disqualify it (though in truth I've never listened to it, boy will my face be red if it turns out it was brilliant)

Ismael Klata, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 21:18 (five years ago) Permalink

George Michael - Listen Without Prejudice Vol.

yes!

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 21:18 (five years ago) Permalink

Listen Without Prejudice isn't a New Jersey surely

Ismael Klata, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 21:19 (five years ago) Permalink

weren't the reviews of BHN kinda like "whoaaaa! wow!"?

mr.raffles, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 21:19 (five years ago) Permalink

praying for time is exactly what Sony did when Michael insisted on releasing this single first.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 21:19 (five years ago) Permalink

Eric Clapton's Pilgrim?

Jeremy Spencer Slid in Class Today (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 21:21 (five years ago) Permalink

"Fastlove" and "Jesus to a Child" were US top 10 hits??????????

keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 21:21 (five years ago) Permalink

It sold even less than LWP though (a massive Euro hit though). And why not? Look at his scary goatee on the cover.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 21:23 (five years ago) Permalink

And George hasn't charted since

Ismael Klata, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 21:23 (five years ago) Permalink

actually, looking at the sales stats and considering that ppl still adore "Freedom 90" but no one remembers or ever hears any of its, I'm tempted to say Older makes more sense

keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 21:23 (five years ago) Permalink

wondering why all the best examples of this are late 80s/early 90s. hmm

mr.raffles, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 21:24 (five years ago) Permalink

its HITS, I meant

keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 21:25 (five years ago) Permalink

Robbie Williams - Escapology

Ismael Klata, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 21:25 (five years ago) Permalink

Eric Clapton's Pilgrim?

― Jeremy Spencer Slid in Class Today (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, August 7, 2012 4:21 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I was going to say "no" but then I read this little jem on Wiki, Wild's review pushes it into the "New Jersey" realm

Reviews for Pilgrim were mixed upon release. Allmusic described the album as "bland", while Rolling Stone's David Wild gave it four out of five stars, stating, "Pilgrim is the work of someone who has learned in the hardest way imaginable that although he cannot change the world, he might be able to change himself."

chr1sb3singer, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 21:27 (five years ago) Permalink

do each of the solo Beatles have a New Jersey? wanna say yeah, Mind Dreams & Living in the Material World for John & George; not sure about the other two

Euler, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 21:30 (five years ago) Permalink

Steve Winwood - Roll With It (1988)

2x platinum, title single at #1 for four weeks. Barely cracked the top 30 with his next album, and that was pretty much it. Seems like the singles from the three preceding albums are played more now.

Ari (whenuweremine), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 21:32 (five years ago) Permalink

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_AdiGyfhHqDw/TO1StQf3EmI/AAAAAAAABVY/op6CEIxc1KE/s1600/Dire_Straits_On_Every_Street.jpg

xposts Pauls's might be Press To Play, and George's might be the second Wilburys lp.

Jeremy Spencer Slid in Class Today (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 21:32 (five years ago) Permalink

Robbie Williams - Escapology
^^yes. & probably Take That - Progress.

I think Rihanna's Talk That Talk could be her New Jersey - although "We Found Love" was obv a colossus it feels all her popularity was leading to that point and a sense of fatigue has now started to set in (the album's other singles chart performance suggesting that). If not this record, then her next album will likely be her New Jersey.

prolego, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 21:33 (five years ago) Permalink

Roll With It is a good pick.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 21:33 (five years ago) Permalink

a real "why do I own this?" moment

Wait, do Bon Jovi fans feel this way about New Jersey? I never had that impression. (My sister loves it, for instance.) I know it's considered inferior to its predecessor but I didn't think it was seen as an embarrassment? I saw them a couple of years ago and they still play songs from this album. I interpreted this concept as "similar but somewhat lesser album that was overhyped because of the success of the previous album". Bad seems like a very good answer to me.

EveningStar (Sund4r), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 21:34 (five years ago) Permalink

I think Rihanna's Talk That Talk could be her New Jersey - although "We Found Love" was obv a colossus it feels all her popularity was leading to that point and a sense of fatigue has now started to set in (the album's other singles chart performance suggesting that).

well, "Where Have You Been" was also massive

kind of super pleased "Birthday Cake" charted NOWHERE

keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 21:35 (five years ago) Permalink

For my money, a New Jersey has little to do with subsequent quality drop-off - that is, I don't think it needs the "beginning of the end" clause in the definition...because then we're really just talking about "big albums that weren't as good as the previous one and were better than the ones that followed." What's interesting to me about the NJ phenomenon is the idea of an album that sells huge, spawns SEVERAL hits, and yet kind of disappears from the band's narrative, legacy, canonic list of concert staples, whatever. I actually think Storm Front is a perfect example of this - - "We Didn't Start The Fire" survives as a novelty, but when was the last time you heard #6 hit "I Go To Extremes"? I also buy Use Your Illusion - those records both have gone, what, six times platinum, with seven Mainstream Rock top-ten hits, including two number ones.... and I would venture to say that MR #7 "November Rain" is the only one still in regular rotation anywhere. Maybe "Knockin' On Heaven's Door" a bit? It's a monster hit album that just had no long-term constituency, no traction in people's hearts, and no hope of making the "best of decade" countdown circuit.

I've been banging on about radio formats a lot on ILX yesterday but I wonder how many New Jerseys are down to radio shifting out from under a band or a genre, or a new crop of kids coming up who aren't as interested in that artist or their sound, so all of a sudden you stop hearing the singles much earlier than you'd have expected to. The whole grunge/alt-rock takeover in the 90s has obviously been overstated as a musical revolution or whatever (as a million people have already pointed out) but it may have some weight just in terms of, all of a sudden, you would have been hearing way less of things like "Don't Cry," uh, "You Could Be Mine" (??), "Yesterdays" (no idea how this goes), "Living In Sin," "Lay Your Hands On Me"...

Pretty shaky theory, I'll admit. But basically I think this is about megahit records that people just didn't fall in love with, not necessarily records that people listened to and went "ehh, no, this sucks." I would second Use Your Illusion, Dangerous, and maybe We Can't Dance. A lot of these other ones are just meh albums or big commercial disappointments - - I mean, Fairweather Johnson was hardly a hit factory at the time!

Maybe DMB's Crash? Seven times platinum, four singles made the alternative Top 20, but, ehhh, not much enthusiasm for it these days, I think even from the Dave camp.

Doctor Casino, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 21:38 (five years ago) Permalink

"Birthday Cake" was pretty much her biggest urban radio hit ever, got played around the clock on every R&B station. just not a pop hit like her other singles. (xpost)

some dude, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 21:44 (five years ago) Permalink

Ah, Dr Casino's explanation makes sense to me.

EveningStar (Sund4r), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 21:45 (five years ago) Permalink

ould the new Rick Ross be his New Jersey or was that the last one?

― Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, August 7, 2012 3:04 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark

not sure i quite framed it this succinctly, but that was my general thesis in this little piece i wrote for the voice http://blogs.villagevoice.com/music/2012/08/rick_ross_god_forgives_i_dont.php

tauheed & cambria (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 21:47 (five years ago) Permalink

Roll With It is SO New Jersey.

mr.raffles, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 21:48 (five years ago) Permalink

"Birthday Cake" was pretty much her biggest urban radio hit ever, got played around the clock on every R&B station. just not a pop hit like her other singles.

curse you, Wikipedia

keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 21:49 (five years ago) Permalink

Btw, I'm most of the way through NJ: did this mark the exact point where Bon Jovi became a country band? Maybe what hurt its is just that it came out before the emergence of 'new country' radio?

EveningStar (Sund4r), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 21:51 (five years ago) Permalink

also, i wonder this gets a bit at raffles's question of why this seems like a late 80s/early 90s thing - - - I think to have a New Jersey you have to be in that post-Thriller, pre-download age when marketing was album-oriented and there was a general tendency to milk singles out of a record for a long while, so that you could rack up these like 5-6 single runs from albums that ultimately people didn't care that much about, and meanwhile even as the album's life cycle was playing out, the band's position in pop's hierarchy was slipping, or radio formats were shifting out from under them, not completely but enough that the album never built up a longer-term base.

Setting aside my little narrative, I'll say that Oops!...I Did It Again might be a borderline case; title track is huge enough that it's probably disqualified, but "Lucky" and "Stronger" haven't exactly been radio staples since, and frankly most DJs going for the throwback "remember junior high and Britney Spears?" play are going to go for "Baby One More Time," not "Oops!," even though I think technically it was a bigger hit at the time?

Doctor Casino, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 21:52 (five years ago) Permalink

"Baby One More Time" was bigger.

I think to have a New Jersey you have to be in that post-Thriller, pre-download age when marketing was album-oriented and there was a general tendency to milk singles out of a record for a long while, so that you could rack up these like 5-6 single runs from albums that ultimately people didn't care that much about, and meanwhile even as the album's life cycle was playing out, the band's position in pop's hierarchy was slipping, or radio formats were shifting out from under them, not completely but enough that the album never built up a longer-term base.

ot

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 21:55 (five years ago) Permalink

m

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 21:55 (five years ago) Permalink

There's the 'event album' element as well xps - the album gets hyped in advance as being The Big One and it briefly seems like it is, but unlike its predecessor it leaves no trace.

Ismael Klata, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 21:55 (five years ago) Permalink

There's the 'event album' element as well xps - the album gets hyped in advance as being The Big One and it briefly seems like it is, but unlike its predecessor it leaves no trace.

in that case I think Kanye's destined to have My Beautiful Dark Twisted Terrible Horrible No Good Very Bad Fantasy as his New Jersy

keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 21:57 (five years ago) Permalink

"Baby One More Time" was bigger.

Daha - you're totally right, just looked it up. Okay, I feel solid putting Oops! forward as a New Jersey within my narrowly-defined world where New Jersey status is divorced from the success or failure of albums that follow.

Doctor Casino, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 21:58 (five years ago) Permalink

ould the new Rick Ross be his New Jersey or was that the last one?

― Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, August 7, 2012 3:04 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark

not sure i quite framed it this succinctly, but that was my general thesis in this little piece i wrote for the voice http://blogs.villagevoice.com/music/2012/08/rick_ross_god_forgives_i_dont.php

― tauheed & cambria (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, August 7, 2012 5:47 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark

lol should this be the thread where i nitpick that review

some dude, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 21:58 (five years ago) Permalink

no

max, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 22:00 (five years ago) Permalink

incidentally, the main impact of this whole discussion for me is having "Bad Medicine" stuck in my head, also i am convinced that Bon Jovi's best hits are the ones where I can mis-hear some element of the chorus as being about Batman, as in "Your love is like Batman is in" and of course "Shot through the heart, and you're to blame / You can't run...from Bat-Man."

Doctor Casino, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 22:01 (five years ago) Permalink

it's not like it would turn into GOON BEEF TIME, you know j0rd is too cool for that (xpost)

some dude, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 22:01 (five years ago) Permalink

i really thought Roman Reloaded was showing major signs of the rot setting in (slower sales, much less urban radio support than Nicki's first album), but "Starships" is actually kinda bigger than "Super Bass" at this point and it'll be years before it's clear whether she's on the decline or w/e.

some dude, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 22:02 (five years ago) Permalink

Tha Carter IV is pretty New Jersey, though, bet Wayne's going to face some serious indifference pretty soon.

50 Cent's The Massacre is def the most New Jersey rap album of all time, though.

some dude, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 22:04 (five years ago) Permalink

The W

Ismael Klata, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 22:05 (five years ago) Permalink

INXS - X

Tim F, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 22:07 (five years ago) Permalink

Van Halen's For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge. Debuted at #1, marketed as a return to Halen's hard rock sound, promises of a big party ("dude, the title says FUCK!"), blah blah blah, but overall feels like a lumbering elephant. I think the only lasting memory of it is "Right Now" being used on occasion as a campaign song.

Elvis Telecom, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 22:08 (five years ago) Permalink

but i so love my baby's poundcake!

some dude, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 22:10 (five years ago) Permalink

Duran Duran - Seven and the Ragged Tiger

brotherlovesdub, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 22:12 (five years ago) Permalink

I've been wrestling with 7&TRT all day. Fits a load of the criteria, but... just doesn't smell like a NJ to me.
Can't put my finger on why.

mr.raffles, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 22:15 (five years ago) Permalink

i was gonna say carter IV but wasn't sure

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 22:18 (five years ago) Permalink

FUCK by Van Halen is def a New Jersey

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 22:18 (five years ago) Permalink

Blur - The Great Escape

― Ismael Klata, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:44 (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

aye.

thomasintrouble, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 22:19 (five years ago) Permalink

Hall and Oates - ooh yeah!

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 22:19 (five years ago) Permalink

Big Bam Boom, maybe?

Doctor Casino, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 22:20 (five years ago) Permalink

Those hits are still inescapable though

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 22:21 (five years ago) Permalink

Bobby Brown - Bobby

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 22:22 (five years ago) Permalink

i keep wanting to object to stuff because there's at least one song i hear plenty now, but i guess NJ has "Bad Medicine" so "Right Now" doesn't disqualify it

some dude, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 22:22 (five years ago) Permalink

Maybe part of being a New Jersey is undergoing some kind of shift from "oh yeah, this thing is a sales juggernaut, racking up the hits!" to a perception of "one big hit and then some other stuff." And again I think this relates a lot to subsequent decisions about what stuff gets long-term airplay, and on what stations. If there's no one out there really convinced that the four or five top-twenty but not #1 singles, they'll kind of disappear from the popular imagination to the point where you scan the back of the sleeve in the used bin and go "hrm, I only recognize one of these songs on here" even though the others all had a substantial short-term radio presence. I mean, do even dentist's offices play "I Go To Extremes" at this point? Why would you, when you've got "She's Always A Woman," "The Longest Time," and so on?

Doctor Casino, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 22:26 (five years ago) Permalink

btw I hope Bon Jovi is grateful, this thread is probably the most attention New Jersey has had since 1989 or so...

Doctor Casino, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 22:27 (five years ago) Permalink

er, "really convinced that the four or five top-twenty-but-not-#1-singles belong in the rotation"

Doctor Casino, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 22:28 (five years ago) Permalink

i can hum "I Go To Extremes" way more readily than "She's Always A Woman"

some dude, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 22:32 (five years ago) Permalink

also, i feel like there should be some sort of thread-ring or meta-thread that connects all these thoughts, but this all grows, for me, out of things getting discussed on Modern Rock #1 Hits of 1999 , re: bands such as Matchbox 20 whose long strings of big, big hits have been cherry-picked down to one or two that fit the sonic profile of contemporary radio formats, while things like "Push," "3 AM," and "The Real World" have vanished despite being once their biggest, most inescapable songs.

Doctor Casino, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 22:32 (five years ago) Permalink

i wrote a thing a while back that touched on how a lot of alt-rock records that crossed over to pop have mostly vanished from rock playlists -- like Alanis and Matchbox 20's big breakthroughs had tons of alt-rock hits but now you only hear "You Oughta Know" from the former and nothing from the latter on those stations

some dude, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 22:36 (five years ago) Permalink

That'd be a great thread in itself, Doctor!

Loads of conflict between 'hits at the time' and 'songs perceived as hits now.'
Girls on Film (USA - didn't chart) vs Union of the Snake (#3, but has lost its status), etc...

mr.raffles, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 22:38 (five years ago) Permalink

The Eminem Show

ma ck ro ma ck ro (mackro mackro), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 22:39 (five years ago) Permalink

some dude - Yeah, your posts on that same thread add a lot to this picture for me. Maybe a different topic than New Jersey albums but it's an interesting phenomenon.

Sort of the inverse of songs that weren't a bands biggest hit, but have gone on to be their legacy song and biggest iTunes seller

Doctor Casino, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 22:39 (five years ago) Permalink

ha yes a retroactive one-hit wonder

goole, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 22:53 (five years ago) Permalink

lol should this be the thread where i nitpick that review

― some dude, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 5:58 PM (55 minutes ago) Bookmark

sure!

or not, whatever. you can dig up a ross thread if you want or go to the goon thread.

tauheed & cambria (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 22:55 (five years ago) Permalink

This literally has me in tears right now at my desk:

incidentally, the main impact of this whole discussion for me is having "Bad Medicine" stuck in my head, also i am convinced that Bon Jovi's best hits are the ones where I can mis-hear some element of the chorus as being about Batman, as in "Your love is like Batman is in" and of course "Shot through the heart, and you're to blame / You can't run...from Bat-Man."

― Doctor Casino, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 3:01 PM (48 minutes ago)

alpine static, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 22:58 (five years ago) Permalink

Snoop Doggy Dogg- The Doggfather

late adopter, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 23:02 (five years ago) Permalink

i think my gripe was just 'fan projects an arc onto artist that does the same thing the same way over and over with mildly varying results' so kinda the opposite of this thread ha (xpost)

some dude, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 23:02 (five years ago) Permalink

Storm Front belongs in this conversation but I gotta say I've heard "I Go To Extremes" more often in the last twenty years than "We Didn't Start The Fire." It's like no one cares about the latter after teachers exhausted our patience about its educational worth.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 23:04 (five years ago) Permalink

many xposts

The other thing Van Hagar's "Right Now" is remembered for:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4c_ZRzC2SZM

Jeremy Spencer Slid in Class Today (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 23:05 (five years ago) Permalink

and Crystal Gravy!

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 23:06 (five years ago) Permalink

re: "I Go To Extremes," you guys... may be right... wonder if this is regional or something, I really have probably heard "I Go To Extremes" a half-dozen times in my whole life, and a couple of those were me seeking it out to go "how does that song go again?"

Doctor Casino, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 23:12 (five years ago) Permalink

Incredibly brilliant thread.

Kinks - Lola v Powerman and the Money-go-round

Also (tangential to this thread), recently the AV Club ran a piece about 'dead zones', i.e. artists having a period that was at the time regarded as shithouse but actually wasn't. So very otm.

undermikey: bidness (Autumn Almanac), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 23:15 (five years ago) Permalink

(forgive bad english, sick)

undermikey: bidness (Autumn Almanac), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 23:15 (five years ago) Permalink

speaking of, too bad Bad English doesn't apply

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 23:22 (five years ago) Permalink

I loaded "I Go to Extremes" on Youtube. I've never heard this before in my life.

EveningStar (Sund4r), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 23:28 (five years ago) Permalink

#3 in Canada!

EveningStar (Sund4r), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 23:29 (five years ago) Permalink

Admittedly, it does seem like the sort of thing I might have heard in a store or dentist's office without paying attention.

EveningStar (Sund4r), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 23:31 (five years ago) Permalink

back to alterna-land:

Sonic Youth- Dirty. Came on the heels of critical fave Daydream Nation and major label debut Goo--got biggest push of their career, was their biggest seller, but I doubt people rate it as highly as their previous albums now, and the stuff that came immediately after definitely felt past-prime.

Listen to this, dad (President Keyes), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 00:58 (five years ago) Permalink

I bet Modern Rock has a lot of these. Chocolate Starfish? Creed probably has one.

Listen to this, dad (President Keyes), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 00:59 (five years ago) Permalink

The concept doesn't really work for bands that are more cultish in the first place. Besides, in my anecdotal experience, Dirty is a favourite among people my age who aren't SY devotees or indie nerds.

EveningStar (Sund4r), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 01:02 (five years ago) Permalink

that's crazy

Listen to this, dad (President Keyes), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 01:06 (five years ago) Permalink

'huge artist' releasing 'huge event album' is a pretty rare thing tbh, especially lately

sonic youth were not huge by any means

mookieproof, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 01:17 (five years ago) Permalink

New Jerseys are my bread + butter.

Some more traits of NJs:

- It's a double album or follows a double album (Clash wouldn't count because of Combat Rock. Also, I was 10 when Mellon Collie came out and I know for sure that's not a NJ. I still hear all of the singles more than one should for a NJ)

- One or more of the follow-up singles has some sort of gimmick/promotional angle to it (like the music video is tied-in to a contest/MTV movie or something)

Britney's Oops! sold less and the hits weren't as big, but I don't think it counts. It came out early 2000 (right when Teen Pop as a whole cultural thing hit critical mass with No Strings Attached) -- The genre's wave was so huge that it feels like part of the Baby era.

The first teen pop certified NJ that comes to mind is Backstreet Boys - Black & Blue. That was destined for NJ status as soon as one of BSB said it would break NSYNC's sales record.

Green Day at this point might have two NJs - Insomniac (debatable because some ppl saw it as a rush job when it came out) and 21CBD

I Occasionally Post on ILX (2x5), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 01:20 (five years ago) Permalink

yeah Backstreet and Green Day picks otm

some dude, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 01:27 (five years ago) Permalink

Blink 182's Take Off Your Pants & Jacket

some dude, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 01:27 (five years ago) Permalink

Modest Mouse's "Good News For People Who Love Bad News" really feels like this for me in the non-stadium filling band category.

joygoat, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 01:27 (five years ago) Permalink

that was their big platinum breakthrough, though! the one after that would make way more sense. i heard "Dashboard" on the radio TWICE last week, which was really odd considering how quickly it disappeared after it was initially a hit.

some dude, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 01:32 (five years ago) Permalink

Diamonds and Pearls
True Colors
The Fat of the Land
Supposed Former Infatuation Junkie

cock chirea, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 01:38 (five years ago) Permalink

I somehow believe that Echo & The Bunnymen's self-titled belongs here, but despite the wall-to-wall airplay of "Lips Like Sugar" on KROQ out here I'm not sure the sales really qualify it for NJ status.

Elvis Telecom, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 01:39 (five years ago) Permalink

The Fat of the Land is a good inclusion, though in that case the momentum it coasted on was from its own (by that point quite old) early singles.

To me The Chemical Bros' Surrender feels a bit like a New Jersey album but it's still very highly rated by lots of people, so maybe not.

Tim F, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 01:45 (five years ago) Permalink

I want to say The Cranberries' To The Faithful Departed, but (for example) even though it went 2x platinum in the US that was down from a 7x platinum performance for their second album, so it looks like most people realised straightaway that the shine had come off.

Tim F, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 01:48 (five years ago) Permalink

50 Cent - The Massacre

Anybody heard any singles from this record lately? Interscope pushed (and shoved) it through one of the earliest examples of the preplanned rerelease to 5x Platinum, and it spawned four top 10 singles, but far as I can remember no one ever loved it even when it was new.

mobs of burly teen christgaus (thewufs), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 01:51 (five years ago) Permalink

The Massacre is otm

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 02:37 (five years ago) Permalink

The Caution Horses
Bang!
Go Bang!
Internationalists

Earth, Wind & Fire & Alabama (Eazy), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 03:11 (five years ago) Permalink

vespertine

mookieproof, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 03:22 (five years ago) Permalink

The Fat of the Land is a good inclusion, though in that case the momentum it coasted on was from its own (by that point quite old) early singles.

this is getting more and more common with rap/R&B albums that come out 1-3 years after the biggest advance single

some dude, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 03:22 (five years ago) Permalink

As far as Sonic Youth is concerned, this phenomenon seems to fit what I was thinking about Washing Machine the other day (I'd also begrudgingly accept that Experimental Jet Set fits). In spirit if not in actuality.

Old Lunch, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 03:30 (five years ago) Permalink

Some other nominees:

Richard Marx - Rush Street (his precipitous plummet from the charts has always baffled me somewhat)
The Monkees - Pisces, Aquarius, Capricorn & Jones Ltd. (I think? There might be an argument for Headquarters, though.)
Vanessa Williams - The Comfort Zone (...maaaaaybe?)

Old Lunch, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 03:44 (five years ago) Permalink

'huge artist' releasing 'huge event album'

y'all are turning this into whichever album of some artist's that sold less than the one before it

mookieproof, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 03:55 (five years ago) Permalink

indoor living was totally superchunk's new jersey amirite

mookieproof, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 03:56 (five years ago) Permalink

Black and Blue strikes me as a pretty good pick:

Black & Blue debuted at number-one on the Billboard 200 after selling 1.6 million copies in its first week at retail in the US. The feat made the them the first act in history to achieve sales more than 1 million copies in the first week with back-to-back releases. The set has moved more than 5.4 million copies in the U.S. to date, according to Nielsen SoundScan.[17][18] Internationally, the album recorded the best sales in a week for an album in history by selling over 5 million copies in its first week of sales.[4][5] As of 2007, the album has sold 24 million copies worldwide.[6]

And it's like, wow! And then you look at the singles and just - "The Call"? "More Than That"? "Shape of My Heart"? Couldn't hum 'em with a gun to my head. (None of those charted spectacularly even at the time, but damn, those album sales.)

Doctor Casino, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 04:03 (five years ago) Permalink

Electric Light Orchestra - Discovery

There's a couple of great songs plus a lot of soppy wet ballads and their most embarrassing track, "The Diary of Horace Wimp." It really felt like Jeff Lynne needed a vacation at that point (which turned out to be Xanadu). Maybe none of the followup albums (Time, Secret Messages, Balance of Power had anything to top "Don't Bring Me Down," but I think they all hold together better than Discovery.

Skimming 180+ posts, has anyone said Autoamerican?

― David Allan Cow (Dan Peterson), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:45 (Yesterday)

Came here to post that. It's the perfect example of an album that I loved at the time, but in hindsight it's really weak.

Hideous Lump, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 04:07 (five years ago) Permalink

spost "Shape of my Heart" and "The Call" are actually two of my favourite BSB singles though ("Shape of my Heart" is my absolute fave in fact).

Tim F, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 04:07 (five years ago) Permalink

The Call is probably the BSBs like, 3rd best song. But yeah that album counts

frogbs, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 04:20 (five years ago) Permalink

Tears for Fears, Seeds of Love

Leon Septamost, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 05:11 (five years ago) Permalink

The Massacre is composed entirely of good album tracks and terrible singles.

REV LION (The Reverend), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 06:32 (five years ago) Permalink

Bone Thugs N Harmony's The Art Of War went 4x platinum but I haven't heard "Look Into My Eyes" or "If I Could Teach The World" since 97.

REV LION (The Reverend), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 06:37 (five years ago) Permalink

haha at this video, I sometimes forget how ambitious every rap video in the late 90s was

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-DgZrIkw_Q

REV LION (The Reverend), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 06:51 (five years ago) Permalink

This song makes "The Crossroads" sound as hard as "Thuggish Ruggish Bone".

REV LION (The Reverend), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 06:53 (five years ago) Permalink

Not sure if it's been mentioned and it's an awful example but "Life" by Simply Red might fit the criteria. Followup to "Stars", a huge album with loads of singles on it, but "Life" had "Fairground" and er... Can't remember any others. But everyone (in the uk anyway) bought it. It's a charity shop regular now.

Rob M Revisited, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 07:18 (five years ago) Permalink

Suede-Head Music. Remember Virgin changed the name of their store to Head music the day it came out, there are now a million copies for sale on Amazon. I think their career was over when She's In Fashion didn't become the huge hit they were expecting.

The Corrs-In Blue. They were the biggest band in the UK in 98/99 and the first single from this album went straight to number one in 2000 but after that people just suddenly lost interest and they never recovered.

Kitchen Person, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 08:12 (five years ago) Permalink

talking heads - little creatures

contenderizer, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 08:31 (five years ago) Permalink

Nirvana - In Utero

Jaap Schip, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 08:31 (five years ago) Permalink

Virtually every album that follows a smash ends up being a disappointment. Some then get reappraised
In 1980, Tusk would have been all over this thread.
In 1967, it would have been Smiley Smile.

Be Here Now definitely the best example in UK rock in the past 20 years. Though I like the upthread proposition of Welcome to the Pleasure Dome, since it was a victory lap for the singles, and it was staggeringly overblown and hollow and pompous. I remember some kid at our school writing a poem in anticipation for the photocopied school mag. "Then with joy I began to bubble/ It was going to be a double!" (I was not the poet; I just have a good memory.)

Manfred Mann meets Man Parrish (ithappens), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 09:29 (five years ago) Permalink

David Gray - A New Day at Midnight, apparently went quarduple platinum but I can't for the life of me remember how either of the singles go.

Gavin, Leeds, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 10:02 (five years ago) Permalink

Have Queen ever had a NJ?

Gavin, Leeds, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 10:06 (five years ago) Permalink

Queen's might have been "The Game", but then they came back with "The Works" a few years later and found a new audience, so maybe not.

don't slip in mud (Matt #2), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 10:12 (five years ago) Permalink

Virtually every album that follows a smash ends up being a disappointment. Some then get reappraised

most, maybe, but not virtually every. sometimes the follow-up to a 1999 is a Purple Rain -- see artists who had a long streak of every album selling more than the last

some dude, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 10:35 (five years ago) Permalink

Yeah, but then "Diamonds and Pearls" seems one of this.

Mark G, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 10:40 (five years ago) Permalink

oh i'm not saying Prince DOESN'T have one, just that he had quite a few smash hits before any real disappointment

some dude, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 10:42 (five years ago) Permalink

Pet Shop Boys - Very

With Prince it might even be Lovesexy, but if not it's definitely Diamonds & Pearls.

If it's the big selling album that signals the end of the Imperial Phase then with REM it's Monster rather than Automatic or New Adventures.

Matt DC, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 10:44 (five years ago) Permalink

Sometimes there's a plateauing album that might qualify - thinking of something like Bossanova here.

Matt DC, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 10:48 (five years ago) Permalink

With Depeche Mode it's definitely 'Songs of Faith & Devotion'. Throw 'Republic' by New Order in there as well.

Matt DC, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 10:54 (five years ago) Permalink

Just checked "everyhit", "Come" was Prince's last number one album (Uk).

Mark G, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 10:56 (five years ago) Permalink

Queen's is Hot Space, surely? Following The Game's big-hit diversification with diversification that alienated everyone

Manfred Mann meets Man Parrish (ithappens), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 11:02 (five years ago) Permalink

Throw 'Republic' by New Order in there as well.

yep

we know about this ---˃ (electricsound), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 11:05 (five years ago) Permalink

Pet Shop Boys - Very

this certainly doesn't sound hollow. It's many fans and critics' favorite record!

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 11:06 (five years ago) Permalink

I'm sort of pinpointing that as the time they started to feel anachronistic.

Matt DC, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 11:10 (five years ago) Permalink

hmmm...again, not the critical consensus. It's certainly true about Bilingual.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 11:16 (five years ago) Permalink

If Wile E. Coyote ever releases an album it'll be a New Jersey

Ismael Klata, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 11:46 (five years ago) Permalink

xp That's not how Very seemed then or now. It outperformed Behaviour, and Go West is the PSBs hit for people who don't pay any attention to the PSBs.

Songs of Faith and Devotion for sure. All the Gahan drama behind the scenes added to the sense that the wheels were about to come off.

Get wolves (DL), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 12:05 (five years ago) Permalink

One of my favourite Wikipedia features BTW is the discography page that shows the sales. They're often counterintuitive - Depeche Mode, for example, have never had a platinum album in the UK - and you really get to see the size of the plunge after a really big album.

Get wolves (DL), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 12:08 (five years ago) Permalink

Yeah I only noticed that last night, very interesting. It really shows the difference between what we sometimes think of as big (Depeche Mode, The Eagles as a stadium act in the UK) and actually, staggeringly massive (Robbie Williams putting out any old crap and selling 2 million plus, The Eagles going 29x platinum in the US).

Ismael Klata, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 12:14 (five years ago) Permalink

Bob Seger- Against the Wind might qualify

Listen to this, dad (President Keyes), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 13:11 (five years ago) Permalink

i pick once upon a time. sparkle in the rain was critically acclaimed and number one in the u.k. and then don't you forget about me became huge and everyone loved it and then the BIG album came out and everyone bought it because they loved the previous albums or they loved don't you forget about me and after that huge album it took them four years to put out another album and it was all downhill from there. plus, in between albums they put out a big lavish expensive double live album to pat themselves on the back for being so cool on their don't you forget about me tour. and nobody owns once upon a time anymore. and nobody wants to own it. people would much rather own a copy of the breakfast club soundtrack.

scott seward, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 13:17 (five years ago) Permalink

just calling back to earlier conversation to agree with everyone big-upping "The Call", especially the Neptunes remix

keeping things contextual (DJP), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 13:34 (five years ago) Permalink

scott otm

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 13:38 (five years ago) Permalink

As a Garden State native I find this thread offensive, and suggest this phenomenon be renamed for any of Sufjan Stevens' stupid "state" records.

Hadrian VIII, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 14:06 (five years ago) Permalink

Pet Shop Boys - Very

**massive engine braking noise, followed by an explosion**

frogbs, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 14:17 (five years ago) Permalink

As a Garden State native I find this thread offensive, and suggest this phenomenon be renamed for any of Sufjan Stevens' stupid "state" records.

Yes, any one of those two stupid records that were on like every single "year best" list

frogbs, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 14:17 (five years ago) Permalink

As a Garden State native I find this thread offensive, and suggest this phenomenon be renamed for any of Sufjan Stevens' stupid "state" records.

― Hadrian VIII, Wednesday, August 8, 2012 10:06 AM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark

i think we should start calling the big preceding hits everybody loves "New York" albums just to make you more angry

some dude, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 14:23 (five years ago) Permalink

LOL

Hadrian VIII, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 14:28 (five years ago) Permalink

Yes, any one of those two stupid records that were on like every single "year best" list

― frogbs, Wednesday, August 8, 2012 10:17 AM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Ha there were only two? I thought he was making his whimsy way through all fifty. Anyway, pffft

Hadrian VIII, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 14:30 (five years ago) Permalink

New poll, best albums named after states

Hadrian VIII, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 14:31 (five years ago) Permalink

dave matthews band - before these crowded streets

Mr. Snrub, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 14:44 (five years ago) Permalink

ohhhh yeah good call. DON'T DRINK THE WATER!

some dude, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 14:48 (five years ago) Permalink

alanis guesting on that right after supposed former infatuation junkie was like new jersey synchronicity.

some dude, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 14:48 (five years ago) Permalink

I'm not so convinced SFIJ belongs here - it's just a slumping sophomore album, right? Strong first-week sales on momentum, then completely dropped off the radar.

Before These Crowded Streets MAYbe, although I maintain Crash is their NJ.

Doctor Casino, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 14:53 (five years ago) Permalink

the correct title is "Don't Drink The WatEEYAEEYAYEEER"

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 14:58 (five years ago) Permalink

Crash is definitely their Slippery When Wet, easily their biggest album

some dude, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 15:02 (five years ago) Permalink

Yeah, I was the first to say SFIJ but now I'm doubtful it's really a good example. If memory serves, nobody thought Alanis was poised to become a permanent megastar.

Guayaquil (eephus!), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 15:05 (five years ago) Permalink

xpost No wayyyyy dude, Under The Table and Dreaming is that. Sold a little less but it's easily the catalog choice for them, and "What Would You Say?" and "Ants Marching" are the long-term radio staples in my experience. Which I'll grant is striking given that the Crash singles generally did way better on release. But that's a New Jersey for you!

Doctor Casino, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 15:05 (five years ago) Permalink

But I think I've got a good one: Boston, THIRD STAGE. The return of Boston after the long hiatus was a big deal, to the point that I went to the record store and bought this the day it came out. Sold 4 million and topped the album charts; the lead single, "Amanda," was their only #1! But nowadays Boston is pretty much just thought of as the '70s records, right? I mean, I can still hum "Amanda," and "Cool The Engines" too, but I don't think anybody else can.

Guayaquil (eephus!), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 15:11 (five years ago) Permalink

good call

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 15:12 (five years ago) Permalink

xpost No wayyyyy dude, Under The Table and Dreaming is that. Sold a little less but it's easily the catalog choice for them, and "What Would You Say?" and "Ants Marching" are the long-term radio staples in my experience. Which I'll grant is striking given that the Crash singles generally did way better on release. But that's a New Jersey for you!

― Doctor Casino, Wednesday, August 8, 2012 11:05 AM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark

dude, on Spotify's most popular DMB tracks there are four Crash tracks before the most listened to Under The Table track

some dude, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 15:14 (five years ago) Permalink

Third Stage sounds legit to me too.

Elvis Telecom brought up For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge but Van Hagar probably have like three of these records. Consider their Mainstream Rock top-tenners:

Why Can't This Be Love (#1)
Dreams (#6)
Love Walks In (#4)
Black and Blue (#1)
When It's Love (#1) (also Hot 100 #5!)
Finish What Ya Started (#2)
Feels So Good (#6)
Poundcake (#1)
Runaround (#1)
Top of the World (#1)
The Dream Is Over (#7) (lol)
Right Now (#2)
Won't Get Fooled Again (#1)
Don't Tell Me (What Love Can Do) (#1)
Can't Stop Lovin' You (#2)
Amsterdam (#9)

"Why Can't This Be Love" is the only one of those I ever hear. As Wiki succinctly puts it:

Although the four studio albums produced during this period reached No. 1 on the Billboard pop music charts and 17 singles breached the top 12 of the mainstream rock tracks chart, overall sales showed a marked decline with each release selling less than its predecessor.

Like, you open any karaoke binder and like 3/4 of the Van Halen songs are shit you can't remember and that they never play anymore. These guys spent the majority of their career deep in New Jersey.

Doctor Casino, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 15:21 (five years ago) Permalink

huh, wow, okay, I may be wrong about the Crash material's staying power then.

Doctor Casino, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 15:21 (five years ago) Permalink

so here's my question, what's the BIGGEST SELLING "New Jersey"? Is it "New Jersey"? It's 7 times platinum US, 18m sold worldwide.

While Michael Jackson's Dangerous is his NJ if he has one, I necessarily want to argue he does. but does anything else on these lists count as one? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_albums_worldwide
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_albums_in_the_United_States

da croupier, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 15:30 (five years ago) Permalink

haha i mean i DON'T necessarily want to argue he has one

da croupier, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 15:31 (five years ago) Permalink

ha wait forgot about backstreet's black & blue that beats it

da croupier, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 15:34 (five years ago) Permalink

8m Us, 24m worldwide

da croupier, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 15:34 (five years ago) Permalink

Black and Blue Jersey.

Doctor Casino, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 15:37 (five years ago) Permalink

I'm guessing ABBA had a New Jersey but I don't know enough about them to say...anyone?

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 15:37 (five years ago) Permalink

in the US they barely had a 7800 Fahrenheit.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 15:38 (five years ago) Permalink

hey, what about the Bee Gee's Spirits Having Flown? Only registered as platinum in the US but 35 million sold world-wide with three #1 hits you don't hear anywhere as much as the Saturday Night Fever stuff.

da croupier, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 15:38 (five years ago) Permalink

the Garth Brooks album Sevens I mentioned yesterday was 10x platinum

Euler, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 15:48 (five years ago) Permalink

but no fences was 17X and ropin' the wind was 14X

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 15:50 (five years ago) Permalink

btw has their ever been an artist that sold THAT MANY records and just dominated his genre that's been as forgotten as quickly as garth brooks?

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 15:50 (five years ago) Permalink

maybe Hammer/Vanilla Ice but yeah

some dude, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 15:51 (five years ago) Permalink

Garth Brooks is the New Jersey of artists

Euler, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 15:51 (five years ago) Permalink

except that he does get played on country radio still, at least "Thunder Rolls" & "Friends in Low Places" & "Two of a Kind"

Euler, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 15:52 (five years ago) Permalink

"That Summer" is a jam

Euler, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 15:52 (five years ago) Permalink

he's still played in country stations here. He'd seem less ephemeral if he kept recording music.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 15:52 (five years ago) Permalink

garth brooks hasn't really been forgotten has he? He just semi-retired. Dude had a song debut at #1 on the country chart in 2007 from a hits comp. He also got to sing at the Obama inauguration.

da croupier, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 15:53 (five years ago) Permalink

maybe Hammer/Vanilla Ice but yeah

― some dude, Wednesday, August 8, 2012 10:51 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah i guess hammer even more so....he's more comparable to garth because he had multiple successful albums....vanilla ice was destined to be more of a one hit wonder and those guys can't really new jersey by definition.

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 15:54 (five years ago) Permalink

Sly & The Family Stone - Fresh

Old Lunch, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 15:55 (five years ago) Permalink

^ that's the kind of album where i get the logic but you're really going to have a hard time getting everyone to agree it "ultimately feels a bit hollow"

da croupier, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 15:55 (five years ago) Permalink

the country station i listen to NEVER plays garth but they don't seem to play much in the way of '90s recurrents in general

some dude, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 15:57 (five years ago) Permalink

though there's something different about Garth's ephemerality: while I hear e.g. John Anderson & Trisha Yearwood on country radio still, it's because those songs resonate; whereas Garth's songs rarely did (the quality that pushed his sales so high, paradoxically)

Euler, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 15:57 (five years ago) Permalink

i guess i base it mostly off my sister and bro-in-law who have always been big fans of pop country etc....they were big garth fans but never seem to listen to him now...kenny chesney kinda captured that crowd, they just went to see him in concert a month ago w/tim mcgraw opening

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 15:58 (five years ago) Permalink

if Garth put out a new album today it would sell millions

Listen to this, dad (President Keyes), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 15:59 (five years ago) Permalink

yeah, it's not like garth is running around trying to woo them though, unlike hammer and vanilla ice

da croupier, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 15:59 (five years ago) Permalink

ugh my sister adores Chesney.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 16:00 (five years ago) Permalink

"it's because those songs resonate; whereas Garth's songs rarely did (the quality that pushed his sales so high, paradoxically)" what does this even mean

da croupier, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 16:00 (five years ago) Permalink

if Garth put out a new album today it would sell millions

― Listen to this, dad (President Keyes), Wednesday, August 8, 2012 11:59 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

no way

some dude, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 16:01 (five years ago) Permalink

it would sell millions if garth did the media blitzkrieg he was a god at and could still swing on a rope over a stadium, but if he just plopped something out from his castle and ran away yeah it wouldn't work

da croupier, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 16:02 (five years ago) Permalink

Wait, Garth Brooks is country royalty! Pretty sure a lot of those albums have never left people's disc-changers, let alone gotten sold back to the store or forgotten about. But I haven't followed his career with any attention at all so there could be one that's thought of as more of a dud, I guess.

Spirits Having Flown is a total New Jersey.

Doctor Casino, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 16:03 (five years ago) Permalink

just saying songs like "Rodeo" or "Papa Loved Mama" don't tell great stories & so what's appealing about them is that everyone else likes the songs, not that you like the song

I dunno, maybe it's bullshit

Euler, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 16:04 (five years ago) Permalink

yeah that's crack talk, sorry

da croupier, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 16:04 (five years ago) Permalink

Garth's crack

Euler, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 16:05 (five years ago) Permalink

you can turn on a country radio station right now and you have a pretty good chance of hearing a Garth song within an hour

Listen to this, dad (President Keyes), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 16:05 (five years ago) Permalink

xpost to da croupier

I wouldn't say 'hollow', necessarily, but I doubt that many would argue that it was a step down from Riot and a sign that the Sly magic was starting to wear off (although you could easily argue that Riot, genius as it is, was a surefire indicator of an impending slide).

Old Lunch, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 16:06 (five years ago) Permalink

That it wasn't a step down, I mean.

Old Lunch, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 16:06 (five years ago) Permalink

i said i got the logic! it's just harder to play this game with critical deities because people aren't as likely to concede the affair was weak

da croupier, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 16:07 (five years ago) Permalink

he dropped a double CD of hits everyone already had in 2007 and it went 5X platinum

Listen to this, dad (President Keyes), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 16:08 (five years ago) Permalink

alright I'm gonna listen to K102, Minnesota's Rockin' Country right now and on I Heart Radio and see if I hear Garth Brooks song

ok first up, some toolbox named Luke Bryan who says kiss tomorrow goodbye

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 16:11 (five years ago) Permalink

"Drunk On You" is good!

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 16:12 (five years ago) Permalink

Everclear - Songs from an American Movie, Vol. 1

Old Lunch, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 16:13 (five years ago) Permalink

is that the song i just heard? i have no idea.

ok they are playing independence day by martina mcbride which i guess is an "oldie" by now so maybe we'll hear garth.

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 16:13 (five years ago) Permalink

Elrond, just so we know the parameters of this experiment, how many country stations does your area have? I don't keep track of these things but it feels like I pass maybe four on the FM dial, and I would imagine they cater to different niches. Any ILM country heads know more about this?

Doctor Casino, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 16:14 (five years ago) Permalink

btw i STILL have goddamn "bad medicine" stuck in my head, thanks thread

Doctor Casino, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 16:16 (five years ago) Permalink

he dropped a double CD of hits everyone already had in 2007 and it went 5X platinum

― Listen to this, dad (President Keyes), Wednesday, August 8, 2012 12:08 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark

that really does not mean he could sell a million copies of an album of new songs in 2012, though

some dude, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 16:16 (five years ago) Permalink

Philadelphia Country station played Garth 45 minutes ago.

Listen to this, dad (President Keyes), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 16:17 (five years ago) Permalink

GARTHWATCH 2012

Doctor Casino, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 16:17 (five years ago) Permalink

not sure you guys understand what an "event" a new Garth album would be in the Country world.

Listen to this, dad (President Keyes), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 16:17 (five years ago) Permalink

but, yeah, if it was all Bluegrass or if it sucked then it would sell poorly

Listen to this, dad (President Keyes), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 16:18 (five years ago) Permalink

not sure you understand how few albums sell a million copies anymore. so far this year it's just that Lionel Richie album.

some dude, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 16:19 (five years ago) Permalink

Elrond, just so we know the parameters of this experiment, how many country stations does your area have? I don't keep track of these things but it feels like I pass maybe four on the FM dial, and I would imagine they cater to different niches. Any ILM country heads know more about this?

― Doctor Casino, Wednesday, August 8, 2012 11:14 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

actually....it looks like there are 2 of decent power FM...I think there used to be a quirkier old school AM station that played older cool stuff but that's pretty low powered...

both of them have playlists so fuck this i'm not going to listen to this shit

http://www.k102.com/iplaylist/playlist.html?last10=1

K102

and 102 Buz'n (??) Country

http://buzn1029.cbslocal.com/playlist/

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 16:20 (five years ago) Permalink

i think if Garth put out an album of new material and did even minimal "return of Garth" hype work, it would sell over a million. i wouldn't bet on "millions" plural, though.

alpine static, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 16:22 (five years ago) Permalink

yeah, maybe. to me that feels a little like saying Bobby Brown could return to R&B radio and outsell Usher but maybe i'm underestimating him.

some dude, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 16:23 (five years ago) Permalink

let's call him up and get this started

Listen to this, dad (President Keyes), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 16:24 (five years ago) Permalink

Bobby Brown isn't to R&B what Brooks was to country, I don't think.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 16:25 (five years ago) Permalink

bobby hasn't sold 128 million

Listen to this, dad (President Keyes), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 16:26 (five years ago) Permalink

Garth is a deity in his genre in a way that Bobby Brown is ... not. A CD of new Garth songs would do quite well among people who still buy CDs, i.e. my aunt in Missouri.

alpine static, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 16:28 (five years ago) Permalink

Garth vs. Bobby, how did we get here agaain?

alpine static, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 16:29 (five years ago) Permalink

forget it alpine static, it's new jersey

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 16:30 (five years ago) Permalink

not sure you understand how few albums sell a million copies anymore. so far this year it's just that Lionel Richie album.

― some dude, Wednesday, August 8, 2012 12:19 PM Bookmark

Yeah, but country album sales are generally stronger than other genres, right? All three of Taylor Swift's records are 5x platinum or more. Lady Antebellum went 3x with their big record, single platinum with their other two. The goddamned Band Perry went platinum... Those aren't 1990s numbers - No Fences came close to double-diamond! - but a well-marketed comeback could still clean up.

Bobby Brown comparison is baffling. Garth Brooks is the best-selling albums artist of his era, in any genre, by a long shot. If John Lennon and George Harrison came back from the dead and reunited the Beatles, and their album came out the same day as Garth's, I still wouldn't know who to put my money on to win it.

Doctor Casino, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 16:33 (five years ago) Permalink

sorry guys i thought it was clear i was being facetious/purposefully diminishing w/ my bobby brown comparison

some dude, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 16:33 (five years ago) Permalink

hmmmmmm, okay then

Doctor Casino, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 16:35 (five years ago) Permalink

Garth's Vegas show is apparently just him in sweats with a guitar and atool. I'd like to see that.

Earth, Wind & Fire & Alabama (Eazy), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 16:37 (five years ago) Permalink

(stool)

Earth, Wind & Fire & Alabama (Eazy), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 16:37 (five years ago) Permalink

I'd see him with just a guitar and stool. Proper pants would be a nice touch, though.

alpine static, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 16:38 (five years ago) Permalink

a guitar and a tool

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 16:38 (five years ago) Permalink

Magic Garth

Earth, Wind & Fire & Alabama (Eazy), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 16:39 (five years ago) Permalink

He'd like to see that.

some dude, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 16:39 (five years ago) Permalink

i just want to watch garth brooks sit on a stool naked

max, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 16:42 (five years ago) Permalink

thanks for killing the thread

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 16:49 (five years ago) Permalink

traveled down the road and back again
your heart is true
you're a friend and a confidant

keeping things contextual (DJP), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 16:50 (five years ago) Permalink

thanks for killing the thread

― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, August 8, 2012 12:49 PM Bookmark

The downward slide in the fans' estimation begins. Soon, it will be ILM's own New Jersey.

Doctor Casino, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 16:53 (five years ago) Permalink

Taylor Swift's Speak Now might end up being her New Jersey. I can't imagine any of the singles really being played 5 years down the line. "Mine" is a Fearless retread, might as well play "You Belong With Me" or "Love Story". "Back To December" is great, but its not quite country, or peppy enough for Pop radio. "Mean" might keep getting play on country radio, but I think as a song it is too tied to the Taylor Swift career narrative, and so when her star fades a little bit it won't have the same resonance. "The Story of Us" is too rock, and unless there is a major style change for her, it won't be seen as Taylor-enough to get played. "Sparks Fly" is another Fearless retread, and "Ours"... its not even on the proper album so maybe it shouldn't count at all.

brontosaur, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 17:57 (five years ago) Permalink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWPfK_3mbbk

scott seward, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 18:02 (five years ago) Permalink

that's double platnum

Listen to this, dad (President Keyes), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 18:06 (five years ago) Permalink

No way is that a New Jersey, people lost interest in the entire project almost immediately. DOA.

Doctor Casino, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 18:12 (five years ago) Permalink

i just like that song. he did get millions of people to buy an album that they were confused by and quickly forgot and a lot of promotion went into it. snl, vh1, etc. i think things started to fade a bit - by garth terms - after fresh horses.

scott seward, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 18:16 (five years ago) Permalink

i just like that song. he did get millions of people to buy an album that they were confused by and quickly forgot and a lot of promotion went into it.

Marketing feels like it is as important to determining NJ-status as sales is.

Elvis Telecom, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 18:43 (five years ago) Permalink

when Bowie received some industry award from presenter Garth Brooks in '99 he thanked the committee "and, of course, Chris Gaines." The audience was like OOOOOOOH

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 18:47 (five years ago) Permalink

Elvis Costello has several New Jerseys, but I suspect that Mighty Like A Rose is the winner/loser.

Elvis Telecom, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 18:49 (five years ago) Permalink

MLAR was a huge event album?

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 18:49 (five years ago) Permalink

Spike?

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 18:50 (five years ago) Permalink

Elvis C is too mcuh a cultist to qualify but I'll be challopsy and say Armed Forces.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 18:54 (five years ago) Permalink

he made good even great albums but it was the first time his anger felt like schtick.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 18:54 (five years ago) Permalink

yeah with culty critic's picks you get into "here's where they started sucking and we didn't notice immediately" and "here's where we should have realized they'd never expand their audience" etc etc that rely far too much on taste

da croupier, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 18:55 (five years ago) Permalink

Armed Forces does kinda fit, because at that point he was starting to look like a major star, but his momentum was slowing even before the Ray Charcles debacle

some dude, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 18:56 (five years ago) Permalink

i really don't get the sense that people were like "well it's over for EC" when Get Happy! out

da croupier, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 18:59 (five years ago) Permalink

i mean we're dealing with serious serious hindsight here

da croupier, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 19:00 (five years ago) Permalink

AF was his commercial peak.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 19:00 (five years ago) Permalink

Does Spiceworld count?

keeping things contextual (DJP), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 19:01 (five years ago) Permalink

Yeah, do people really think Armed Forces feels a bit hollow or signals a decline? I'm not a big EC stan at all, but I think it's a great record, and stands up. xpost

Ermahgerd Thomas (Dan Peterson), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 19:02 (five years ago) Permalink

Spiceworld counts, I think.

Doctor Casino, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 19:03 (five years ago) Permalink

It's hard for me to hear AF these days without trying to forget the literally dozens of acerbic roots-rock records he's released since I started typing this sentence.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 19:05 (five years ago) Permalink

that's super, but there's no reason that's a New Jersey any more than Get Happy! which charted equally but sold less, and had about equally high charting singles in the UK that are slightly less well known afaik

da croupier, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 19:06 (five years ago) Permalink

I don't think Costello really works for this

frogbs, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 19:07 (five years ago) Permalink

yeah you gotta have a slippery when wet to hope to have a new jersey

da croupier, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 19:10 (five years ago) Permalink

seems clear that part of the thread's purpose is to deny the premise -- it seems clearly NOT to be the case that every huge artist has a New Jersey

Guayaquil (eephus!), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 19:10 (five years ago) Permalink

more like people like to ignore the word "huge" or allow for liberal interpretations of it

some dude, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 19:13 (five years ago) Permalink

along those lines, I think you can make an argument for Actual Sounds + Voices as Meat Beat Manifesto's New Jersey

keeping things contextual (DJP), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 19:15 (five years ago) Permalink

also 13 Above The Night for My Life With The Thrill Kill Kult

keeping things contextual (DJP), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 19:15 (five years ago) Permalink

Spiceworld otoh is an excellent choice

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 19:17 (five years ago) Permalink

what about For Those About To Rock We Salute You? AC/DC's first #1 album.

da croupier, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 19:21 (five years ago) Permalink

yeah that's not bad

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 19:24 (five years ago) Permalink

though....Razor's Edge brought them back to a new popularity later on

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 19:24 (five years ago) Permalink

yeah but you follow back in black with an album that goes to #1 for 3 weeks...only to never hit the US top ten again for a decade. You can have a comeback, but Salute was definitely a hollow album the label said LET'S GET IT UP for

da croupier, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 19:26 (five years ago) Permalink

i'm sold.

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 19:27 (five years ago) Permalink

i kinda feel like challopsing the fuck out of the thread and saying The White Album

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 19:27 (five years ago) Permalink

has there ever been a more hollow album in hindsight, more of a blatant sign of a career decline than the white album? I think not.

da croupier, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 19:30 (five years ago) Permalink

the beatles broke up because clearly the world stopped caring

da croupier, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 19:30 (five years ago) Permalink

i admitted i was trolling!

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 19:33 (five years ago) Permalink

Goat's Head Soup maybe--except that it outsold Exile by quite a bit.

Listen to this, dad (President Keyes), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 19:35 (five years ago) Permalink

Doing really well sales-wise is one of the requirements of being a New Jersey.

Doctor Casino, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 19:37 (five years ago) Permalink

looking at their solo careers, John avoided the New Jersey by releasing a flat-out dud (Some Time In New York City) and not quite recovering until death and someone with a better sense of what it was like to live in a world with Wings can figure out when Paul's horseshit stopped being an "event". Based on stats I can see an argument for George's Living In The Material World (esp. since I've never even heard of the #1 hit "Give Me Love".

da croupier, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 19:37 (five years ago) Permalink

this would probably be Dead Man's Party for Oingo Boingo

keeping things contextual (DJP), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 19:40 (five years ago) Permalink

the problem with finding a New Jersey for the Stones is that I don't think they've ever admitted an album wasn't a huge event yet. I can see cases for Goats heads, Undercover and Voodoo Lounge though.

da croupier, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 19:42 (five years ago) Permalink

I think everyone is missing the obvious here, Bizaar/Bizzar by ICP

frogbs, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 19:42 (five years ago) Permalink

Jewel- Spirit

Listen to this, dad (President Keyes), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 19:43 (five years ago) Permalink

Re: For Those About To Rock, I worked in a record store when that was released. We pre-ordered a TON of them based on Back In Black's popularity, and still had huge piles of them sale priced for a year afterwards.

Ermahgerd Thomas (Dan Peterson), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 19:43 (five years ago) Permalink

lol yes xpost

da croupier, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 19:44 (five years ago) Permalink

actually "lol yes" to that anecdote too

it's crazy looking at sales in the '80s-'90s, times really have changed

da croupier, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 19:44 (five years ago) Permalink

naw, The Amazing Jeckel Brothers is the pick for ICP

keeping things contextual (DJP), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 19:44 (five years ago) Permalink

Rock and Roll Jesus for Kid Rock?

keeping things contextual (DJP), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 19:46 (five years ago) Permalink

actually it seems like he's had TWO (Cocky)

keeping things contextual (DJP), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 19:47 (five years ago) Permalink

For Elton, does either Caribou or Rock of the Westies qualify?

Doctor Casino, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 19:47 (five years ago) Permalink

the problem there is that Rock'n'Roll Jesus was actually a comeback album following what was assumed to be a career decline xpost

da croupier, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 19:47 (five years ago) Permalink

naw, The Amazing Jeckel Brothers is the pick for ICP

weren't this and The Great Milenko the big ones? From what I remember Jeckel Bros. was one of the best

frogbs, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 19:48 (five years ago) Permalink

oh shit i forgot about his self titled album, Cocky DEFINITELY counts

FOREVER

da croupier, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 19:48 (five years ago) Permalink

though actually Cocky got most of its sales late in the game thanks to the belated success of "Picture"...really Kid Rock may be too wily a scamp for this

da croupier, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 19:49 (five years ago) Permalink

weren't this and The Great Milenko the big ones? From what I remember Jeckel Bros. was one of the best

Yes it was, which is the point; we're looking for a massive album that clearly telegraphs that the band was on a full tilt slide out of vogue and is retroactively embarrassing/terrible. Bizaar/Bizzar sold less than half of what Jeckel Brothers sold.

keeping things contextual (DJP), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 19:51 (five years ago) Permalink

It's actually kind of amazing - Cocky is definitely the New Jersey for fans of the "my name is KIIIIIIIIIIIIIID" kid rock but ground zero for the people who love his later bullshit.

da croupier, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 19:53 (five years ago) Permalink

actually the Jewel comparison tracks pretty closely:

both Slippery and Pieces of You went 12x platinum in the US

New Jersey went 7x and Spirit went 4x

I can't remember a single song from Spirit

Listen to this, dad (President Keyes), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 19:54 (five years ago) Permalink

you don't remember "Fat Boy"?

TS: "Pieces Of You" vs "Fat Boy"

keeping things contextual (DJP), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 19:55 (five years ago) Permalink

doh

Doctor Casino, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 19:59 (five years ago) Permalink

http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/heQi0AZBH-0/mqdefault.jpg

Doctor Casino, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 19:59 (five years ago) Permalink

The neat thing about Monster being a New Jersey is that it was dramatic style shift that America bought and then quickly regretted. Usually a New Jersey is a MORE OF WHAT YOU LOVE kind of album, but I guess while Monster certainly wasn't a "more nightswimming!" album, it was in touch enough with the post-grunge vibe that people didn't get grossed out until after the fact.

da croupier, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 20:00 (five years ago) Permalink

"Hands" was the big hit from Spirit.

Jeremy Spencer Slid in Class Today (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 20:01 (five years ago) Permalink

Yes it was, which is the point; we're looking for a massive album that clearly telegraphs that the band was on a full tilt slide out of vogue and is retroactively embarrassing/terrible.

Well Jeckel Bros. is probably their least retroactively embarrassing/terrible release, and ICP was never really in vogue

frogbs, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 20:03 (five years ago) Permalink

Well Jeckel Bros. is probably their least retroactively embarrassing/terrible release

this does not compute at all

keeping things contextual (DJP), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 20:05 (five years ago) Permalink

although looking back at the track list it looks like "Piggy Pie" was actually on Milenko so maybe I should be backing that one

keeping things contextual (DJP), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 20:06 (five years ago) Permalink

its also got "The Neden Game" which is the one track even people who hate ICP tend to like

frogbs, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 20:09 (five years ago) Permalink

Rock Of The Westies, mentioned a while back, is a good one I think. Debuted at #1 on the Billboard chart, yet "Island Girl" was the only charting single, and I struggled to remember any song titles without looking it up. Pretty neglected/forgotten about today?

Ermahgerd Thomas (Dan Peterson), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 20:16 (five years ago) Permalink

yeah survivors like Elton always muddy the waters a bit - he put out "Don't Go Breaking My Heart" the same year - but Rock definitely seems like a bloom is off the rose moment

da croupier, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 20:21 (five years ago) Permalink

Roll With It and Crash, good thoughts.

Tangentially, there were a lot of slumpy followups in those years: Edie Brickell, Ghost of a Dog; Lisa Loeb, Firecracker; Tori Amos, Under the Pink. I don't think the foregoing are "huge artists," though, rite?

Winwood had been huge-ish because of SDG and Blind Faith, but I don't think the audience for "Roll with It" was the same audience as for Blind Faith (or, for that matter, Arc of a Diver).

BTW, "I Go to Extremes" and "Matter of Trust" are still in my head as much as any Joel is (which is not that much, but still) "Remember the Time" was my high school class's prom song.

Ye Mad Puffin, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 20:29 (five years ago) Permalink

Aerosmith - Nine Lives

Old Lunch, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 20:41 (five years ago) Permalink

that was a big dropoff from Get A Grip, though -- GAG sold as much as Pump, but maybe it's too well remembered for its videos to be a New Jersey?

some dude, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 20:45 (five years ago) Permalink

btw does anyone else hear Fred Armisen as David Paterson saying "New JERSEY!" in their head a lot while reading this thread?

some dude, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 20:46 (five years ago) Permalink

i do now

da croupier, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 20:46 (five years ago) Permalink

George's Living in the Material World is a good one

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 20:51 (five years ago) Permalink

yeah aerosmith's tough - Nine Lives was definitely a #1 debut BIG EVENT album but tanked fast. Get A Grip's singles were so similar SNL made a joke out of it, so I could see the argument they were already being propped up by Alicia Silverstone, but really their entire Geffen run was so on borrowed time that I don't see anyone begrudging the hits.

da croupier, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 20:54 (five years ago) Permalink

i still hear "Livin' On The Edge" on rock stations, i wonder if any '90s hits' stations play any of the Silverstone trilogy anymore

some dude, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 20:58 (five years ago) Permalink

ha -- heard "Crazy" yesterday morning on the eighties/nineties station

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 21:04 (five years ago) Permalink

that kinda lovin' sends a man right to his grave

some dude, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 21:10 (five years ago) Permalink

I remember being amazed at how long "Cryin'" was played on the radio until I realized I was actually hearing "Crazy"

keeping things contextual (DJP), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 21:16 (five years ago) Permalink

lol

some dude, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 21:17 (five years ago) Permalink

Debbie Gibson - Electric Youth

LeRooLeRoo, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 22:30 (five years ago) Permalink

i honestly considered that the other day but vetoed myself since I still remembered the hooks to the two biggest hits, plus I don't know if it sounds any less hollow than the debut. Others more invested may feel differently.

da croupier, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 22:36 (five years ago) Permalink

like "straight up" and "opposites attract" definitely get more love than "promise of a new day" and "rush rush" but do people really rate "foolish beat" above "lost in your eyes" or whatever?

If so, then Step By Step probably counts

da croupier, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 22:38 (five years ago) Permalink

the presence of "Vibeology" drags the whole thing into New Jersey territory imo

some dude, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 22:40 (five years ago) Permalink

there's this blurry zone between a New Jersey and a flop that we hit a lot, the "commercial disappointment" that still does honorable business. Part of what makes New Jersey so interesting is that for anyone else it'd be HUGE. Like Spellbound - anyone would love having five top 20 hits off an album, but it feels like the beginning of the end now.

da croupier, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 22:43 (five years ago) Permalink

New Jersey rolled out a lot like Country albums do--two years after its predecessor, just after the singles from the last album had stopped coming out, and is pretty similar to that other album. A lot of other follow-ups to massive hits come after an extended break, and the artist has either "matured" or the music scene has changed.

Listen to this, dad (President Keyes), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 22:51 (five years ago) Permalink

Part of what makes New Jersey so interesting is that for anyone else it'd be HUGE

I don't think most artists would complain if they had Bon Jovi's post-NJ career either: going by Wiki, five platinum/multi-platinum albums and two gold albums in the US (only considering studio album), 8 Top 40 singles in the US, still touring stadiums 25 years after their biggest album.

EveningStar (Sund4r), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 23:21 (five years ago) Permalink

so instead of studying for a test i'm trying to come up with TIERS

the New Jersey: a huge event album that's massive by all reasonable standards but is shadowed by the album(s) that ironically are the only reason it was massive, since it was pretty damn shallow on its own merits (i.e. New Jersey, Spellbound, For Those About To Rock, Spirits Having Flown, Afterburner, Fore!, Be Here Now in the UK)

the Fairweather Johnson: a huge event album that still sells better than it should've thanks to the band's previous success, but one could almost immediately sense fortunes going considerably southward even if one was a fan (i.e. Fairweather Johnson, Supposed Former Infatuation Junkie, Nine Lives, Be Here Now in the US)

da croupier, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 23:25 (five years ago) Permalink

haha dude you've taken this and run with it

but i think those are totally valid distinctions to make, the fundamental difference is that the Fairweather Johnson is viewed as underperforming or being slightly disappointing AT THE TIME, the New Jersey is only revealed in the fullness of time.

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 23:27 (five years ago) Permalink

lol yeah sorry if i'm hijacking or anything, i just love this shit.

I don't think most artists would complain if they had Bon Jovi's post-NJ career either: going by Wiki, five platinum/multi-platinum albums and two gold albums in the US (only considering studio album), 8 Top 40 singles in the US, still touring stadiums 25 years after their biggest album.

yeah, though there was a serious drop off stateside after New Jersey, these guys were fucking troopers

da croupier, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 23:27 (five years ago) Permalink

more simply, everyone thinks a New Jersey is a Slippery When Wet at the time

you're not hijacking at all! i hadn't really thought it out ever but it was just kicking around in my head.

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 23:28 (five years ago) Permalink

in movies this is Return of the Jedi

Listen to this, dad (President Keyes), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 23:31 (five years ago) Permalink

I don't think Spirits Having Flown is a New Jersey, I hear "Too Much Heaven" & "Love You Inside Out" too much for that. though the last time I heard "Love You Inside Out" was at a restaurant in Paris, & it was followed up by "Call Me Maybe", so really who knows

Euler, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 23:32 (five years ago) Permalink

in movies this is Return of the Jedi

― Listen to this, dad (President Keyes), Wednesday, August 8, 2012 6:31 PM (33 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

woah, totally.

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 23:32 (five years ago) Permalink

yeah i was wondering re: bee gees if it was different in europe, in America I have a real sense that despite being #1s, "Tragedy" "Love You Inside Out" and "Too Much Heaven" get nowhere the play of the Saturday Night Fever/Main Course stuff.

da croupier, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 23:33 (five years ago) Permalink

LOL re: Jedi, otm

Not sure I buy Fairweather Johnson as an 'event album,' but take that phrase out and it's a really useful category - things that sold massively in the first weeks, entirely on the momentum of the previous record, then died completely as everyone either realized it wasn't as good, or that the moment had simply passed. SFIJ is in this category, and probably a ton more much-hyped flops that are technically non-flops since they sold a million plus and had a ''hit'' in the first single (before the jig was up). The New Jersey is a much, much smaller club; I feel like this thread has maybe produced a dozen or fifteen, total, in between all the cult hits (not relevant), flop records (New Jerseys are successful, i like Elrond's point that they appear to be Slipperys) and ordinary sophomore slumps (which don't enjoy even the momentum sales of a Fairweather Johnson).

Xpost Re: Bee Gees, this may be a US/Europe divide. None of those songs are US radio regulars, although I did hear a dude request ''Tragedy'' a few weeks ago.

Doctor Casino, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 23:40 (five years ago) Permalink

"Tragedy" rules so I'd be offended if it was forgotten entirely.

But yeah, re: Fairweathers forget "event album" - it's just a good way for us to make New Jersey a more exclusive honor

da croupier, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 23:44 (five years ago) Permalink

There's a phenomenon that's similar which I would dub the Journey Through The Secret Life of Plants (AKA the One From the Heart, in the film world), which is the instance wherein a respected artist, after having poured themselves into a critically-acclaimed and commercially successful work, basically opens up the pressure valve and sees a concurrent downturn in their critical and commercial success.

Old Lunch, Thursday, 9 August 2012 00:32 (five years ago) Permalink

Step By Step def one.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 9 August 2012 03:52 (five years ago) Permalink

Step By Step SO otm

Old Lunch, by "pressure valve," you mean doing what they want, marketplace be damned?

mr.raffles, Thursday, 9 August 2012 04:02 (five years ago) Permalink

I don't know the band's discography well enough to pick one, but I have to believe the White Stripes have a New Jersey, right?

alpine static, Thursday, 9 August 2012 04:13 (five years ago) Permalink

chocolate starfish and the hotdog flavored water

billstevejim, Thursday, 9 August 2012 04:19 (five years ago) Permalink

50 cent - the massacre

billstevejim, Thursday, 9 August 2012 04:24 (five years ago) Permalink

yeah i was wondering re: bee gees if it was different in europe, in America I have a real sense that despite being #1s, "Tragedy" "Love You Inside Out" and "Too Much Heaven" get nowhere the play of the Saturday Night Fever/Main Course stuff.

― da croupier, Wednesday, August 8, 2012 4:33 PM (4 hours ago)

Same thing happened with Andy Gibb's three U.S. number ones though the local old school R&B station where I live revived "I Just Want to Be Your Everything" and it seems to have stuck around.

timellison, Thursday, 9 August 2012 04:25 (five years ago) Permalink

Old Lunch, by "pressure valve," you mean doing what they want, marketplace be damned?

Nah, I just mean there's a clear sense that, after serving up this magnum opus that ate up years of their lives (and possibly shaved a few off the back end), they're going to be putting significantly less than 100% of themselves into all subsequent efforts. The implicit statement being, "Well, I can't top that, so instead of even making that foolish attempt, I'm just gonna relax and have a mid-level career from here on out."

Old Lunch, Thursday, 9 August 2012 04:46 (five years ago) Permalink

I don't know the band's discography well enough to pick one, but I have to believe the White Stripes have a New Jersey, right?

satan imo

we know about this ---˃ (electricsound), Thursday, 9 August 2012 04:49 (five years ago) Permalink

so I just tried to compile a list of some of the biggest examples of this phenomenon with the reasoning. I tried to stick to albums that
a) sold at least 3 million copies.
b) achieved enough success as not to guarantee the next one would do even worse. I left out Adrenalize because even if 3 million sold and 4 top 40 hits is kind of stunning in hindsight, it's still a Fairweather Johnson following a diamond album with 6 top 20 hits.
c) few would argue these albums have been found wanting in hindsight - and wanting compared to their previous work (excluded seger and bizkit cuz i don't know people are raving about the Significant Other and Stranger In Town hits considerably more than Chocolate Starfish and Against The Wind hits, even if those latter albums were the end of their strongest sales period).

Garth Brooks, Sevens
(10x platinum #1 album with 4 top 5 country hits including 2 #1s. The previous album, Fresh Horses, went 7x platinum and also had 4 top 5 country hits including 2 #1s. However, Sevens was notorious for its heavy promotion, and his Chris Gaines follow-up only went 2x platinum. When he finally released another studio non-Christmas country album, it was his lowest seller - still 5x platinum - and his last to date.)

Backstreet Boys, Black & Blue
(8x platinum #1 album with two top 40 hits, including one top ten. The previous album went 13x platinum with four top 40 hits, including two top tens. The next album only went platinum. Notably, the hits comp released a year after Black & Blue only went platinum, too.)

Bon Jovi, New Jersey
(7x platinum #1 album with 5 top ten hits including 2 #1s. In comparison, previous album Slippery When Wet had only 3 top ten hits despite eventually going 12x platinum. However, follow-up Keep The Faith was a 2x platinum #5 album with 1 top ten hit. The three Slippery hits rank #1, 3 &4 in popularity on Spotify. While the two #1s from NJ make the top ten, you have to scroll past umpteen "Living On A Prayers" and "Always"s and "Bed of Roses"s to get to the other hits.)

Guns'n'Roses, Use Your Illusion I & II
(both albums went 7x platinum, with Vol. 1 offering two top ten hits and each giving another top 40. The previous release, G'n'R Lies, admittedly an EP, sold 5x million. While all the hits - and "Civil War" still get love on Spotify, it's definitely got nothing on Appetite and almost unanimously people see The Beginning Of The End in a way they didn't at the time.)

Cranberries, No Need To Argue
(7x platinum #6 album with two top 40 "pop" hits - it was that funky airplay time - that charted less than pair from the previous album, which only went 5x platinum. However, the follow-up To The Faithfully Departed only went 2x platinum, and if someone thinks this album is anywhere as good as the first, speak up cuz ILX hasn't heard you).

Journey, Frontiers
(6x platinum #2 album with 4 top 30 hits including 1 top ten. Previous album Escape went 9x platinum with 3 top 10 hits. The follow-up, Raised On Radio would have four top 20 hits but only go 2x platinum. Plus everybody got into side projects after Frontiers. Plus the highest charting song was "Separate Ways").

ZZ Top, Afterburner
(5x platinum #4 album - their highest charting ever - with four top 40 hits, including #8 "Sleeping Bag." In comparison, previous album Eliminator only had 2 top 40 hits, including #8 "Legs," despite going 10x platinum. However, follow-up Recycler only went platinum and had no top 40 hits. Only "Rough Boy" makes spotify's top ten in popularity and none of the tracks were deemed worth of inclusion of their "Hi-Five" digital pack).

Billy Joel, River Of Dreams
(5x platinum #1 album with 2 top 20 hits, including the #3 title track. Billy's previous album, Storm Front, had 2 top 10 hits including a #1, but only went 4x platinum. However, "We Didn't Start The Fire" is a notch above "River" on Spotify, "The Downeaster Alexa" several notches above "Lullaby - Goodnight Angel" and about half of Storm Front passes before we see "All About Soul". His only follow-up has been a classical album.)

R.E.M., Monster
(4x platinum #1 album with two top 40 singles, both of which charted higher than the three top 40 hits from their previous album Automatic For The People, which also went 4x platinum - but peaked at #2. However, follow-up New Adventures In Hi-Fi only went platinum and had no top 40 hits. Ranking tracks on Spotify by popularity, you have to scroll through album tracks of Automatic to get to "Bang And Blame". Plus there's the whole 'most sold back CD ever' thing).

Bone Thugs-n-Harmony, The Art Of War
(4x platinum #1 album with two top 40 singles including one top 5. The previous album, E. 1999 Eternal, also was a 4x platinum #1 with two top 20 hits including a #1. The follow-up, BTNH Resurrection, only went platinum and had no pop hits. "Look Into My Eyes" has not had the longevity of "1st Of Da Month" or "Da Cross Roads."

Boston, Third Stage
(4x platinum #1 album with two top ten hits including one #1, despite coming eight years after the last album. However, in 1987, Boston had gone 9x platinum, Don't Look Back 4x platinum and Third Stage 4x time platinum. Today, Boston is at 17x platinum, and Don't Look Back is at 7x platinum. Third Stage remains at four, and the follow-up, Walk On only went Platinum).

Genesis, We Can't Dance
(4x platinum #4 album with 5 top 30 singles - including one top ten. Admittedly a notch down chart-wise from Invisible Touch - 6x platinum #3 album, 5 top 5 hits including a #1 - and Phil's But Seriously - 4x platinum #1 album, 3 top 5 hits including a #1. But still no reason to assume Phil's next solo album just two years later would fail to make the top ten and only go platinum. Until you remember the last top ten hit was "I Can't Dance.")

AC/DC, For Those About To Rock We Salute You
(4x platinum #1 album - their first and only chart-topper until 2008. While Back In Black has been printing money since its release, having gone 20x, both Salute and Highway to Hell hit 2x platinum in late '84. Highway is now at 7x platinum, Salute at 4x. None of the three albums that followed Salute have passed single platinum).

Lionel Richie, Dancing On The Ceiling
(4x platinum #1 album with four top ten hits, including one #1. In comparison, previous album Can't Slow Down had five top ten hits, including 2 #1s, and eventually went 10x platinum. Lionel wouldn't even release another single until 1992, so it's hard to say how another '80s album would have done, but Dancing is definitely considered inferior to CSD).

Spice Girls, Spiceworld
(4x platinum #3 album with three top 20 hits including 1 top 10, the aptly named "Too Much". Previous album, Spice, went 7x platinum with three top 5 hits including a #1. Following album, Forever, only hit #39 and had one top 20 hit, the aptly named "Goodbye.")

Huey Lewis, Fore!
(3x platinum #1 album with 5 top ten hits including 2 #1s. In comparison, previous album Sports had four top ten hits and nothing even in the top 5 despite going 7x platinum. However, follow-up Small World only went platinum and had just one top ten hit. Spotify suggests the hits off Fore! are just as popular as the Sports hits, though. Even "Jacob's Ladder". Still, ILX has consistently dissed this album.)

Paula Abdul, Spellbound
(3x platinum #1 album with 5 top 20 hits including 2 #1s. While the previous album, Forever Your Girl went 7x platinum with 4 #1s, the follow-up to Spellbound, Head Over Heels would only go gold with one top 30 hit.)

Foreigner, Agent Provocateur
(3x platinum #4 album with the band's first #1 single. However, the follow-up Inside Information would only go single platinum and Agent has garnered fewer fewer platinum discs than any previous album - Head Games and Records actually leapfrogged it.)

Some are more debatable than others, but feel like all deserve a home if we do a poll. Any others that meet this standard?

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 06:02 (five years ago) Permalink

oh also i stuck entirely to US sales and career trajectories. if someone's offended they can do whatever, i just wanted to make a long list and look at stats.

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 06:08 (five years ago) Permalink

foreigner's records is a best-of fwiw

mookieproof, Thursday, 9 August 2012 06:25 (five years ago) Permalink

i know, but i was still surprised there was a time agent had sold more, considering records had been out for a while when agent was released

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 06:29 (five years ago) Permalink

Love the long list and the stats. Will have to digest. I think point B is super crucial - you would not immediately think, seeing this album's success, that this is anything but a band in a strong position career-wise. And yet in hindsight it's also easy to see that somehow the rot had set in here, that this album kind of basically was long on singles and short on deep cuts, that it was all kind of samey, that the biggest hits were actually riding momentum, whatever it is that makes New Jersey not feel like a major record despite the killer sales profile. This ineffable "feel" is pretty key to the whole thing but hard to quantify, naturally.

Doctor Casino, Thursday, 9 August 2012 06:37 (five years ago) Permalink

How many of those were real event albums? I feel like that's the magic element, an emptiness born of mass delusion, that turns a mere Agent Provocateur into a full-blown Use Your Illusion.

Ismael Klata, Thursday, 9 August 2012 06:52 (five years ago) Permalink

that's part of why i put them in order of sales - one of could easily make the argument that 7x platinum is the cut-off. I just chose 3x platinum since Spellbound was a pretty big deal and still pretty undeniably a success.

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 06:58 (five years ago) Permalink

i'm not going to go to bat for my one contribution to this thread or anything, but i am having a hard time understanding this and would love it if you'd take another shot at explaining what it means. (note: it's not you, it's me. i'm dumb.)

b) achieved enough success as not to guarantee the next one would do even worse. I left out Adrenalize because even if 3 million sold and 4 top 40 hits is kind of stunning in hindsight, it's still a Fairweather Johnson following a diamond album with 6 top 20 hits.

or maybe, to put it more clearly, why is Adrenalize a FJ and not a NJ?

regardless, nice work on that list! very impressive

alpine static, Thursday, 9 August 2012 07:40 (five years ago) Permalink

I don't know much about Def Leppard, but from the Wiki info it seems like it sold well enough to be a New Jersey - four singles in the US Rock top ten, with two of them hitting #1, and the album itself is 3x platinum. Maybe not a monster but surely a hit record, right? So all that's left is to determine whether it has the general feeling of dudness, irrelevancy, and failure to contribute meaningfully to the band's reputation, that hint at New Jersey "the hit that felt like a bomb" status.

Let's bear in mind here that Fairweather Johnson debuted at #1 on the albums chart, sold copies quickly to three out of the eleven million Cracked Rear View buyers... and then started slipping immediately. First single "Old Man & Me" (a pleasant tune IMO) made #13 on the Hot 100 - respectable, but the equivalent of the previous album's fourth single "Time" (anyone remember this one?) which got to #14. The followup, "Tucker's Town," (???) barely cracked the top 40 at #38, and "Sad Caper" (nooooo idea) did not chart, which would be true of all of the band's future singles. It's a flop that also happens to be a straight career-killer. It doesn't look to me like Adrenalize is either of those things.

Now let's get the rock outta here!

Doctor Casino, Thursday, 9 August 2012 07:56 (five years ago) Permalink

(note, Cracked Rear View has shipped 16 million and sold 11 million. And either way, holy fuck, that's a lot of copies of Cracked Rear View.)

Doctor Casino, Thursday, 9 August 2012 08:01 (five years ago) Permalink

I felt like, even before it came out, no one thought Fairweather Johnson had any chance of hitting anywhere close to CRV's success. Hootie felt like a novelty, not a group with a "career" ahead of it. The reviews all seemed along the lines of "maybe they could have have kept this shit up if they had written catchier songs, but oh well"

Listen to this, dad (President Keyes), Thursday, 9 August 2012 08:41 (five years ago) Permalink

I had never heard of Fairweather Johnson before this thread.

Get wolves (DL), Thursday, 9 August 2012 10:02 (five years ago) Permalink

regardless, nice work on that list! very impressive

OTM

Plus there's the whole 'most sold back CD ever' thing

Is this based on some statistic or is it just an impression people have? I've been wondering. I can believe that a lot of people might have sold it back, although I still think Monster is a good album, one I'd easily rate over Green and probably over Out of Time.

EveningStar (Sund4r), Thursday, 9 August 2012 10:33 (five years ago) Permalink

I think it's less about Monster's actual quality and more about its longterm appeal to the audience who bought in with "Losing My Religion" and "Everybody Hurts".

Tim F, Thursday, 9 August 2012 10:36 (five years ago) Permalink

still think Rattle & Hum is a New Jersey, would add it to the list; it had a movie! Doesn't get more event than that.& now they've passed it over in their deluxe edition reissue project as though it doesn't exist

Euler, Thursday, 9 August 2012 12:09 (five years ago) Permalink

5x platinum btw

Euler, Thursday, 9 August 2012 12:10 (five years ago) Permalink

Great thread. In terms of UK stuff I feel like Arctic Monkeys - Favourite Worst Nightmare was a sorta-kinda-maybe example of this.

record-collection rave (Mr Andy M), Thursday, 9 August 2012 12:15 (five years ago) Permalink

Alright, I'm convinced, re: Adrenalize. It was definitely a consistently purchased, promoted album through 4 top 40 singles, on MTV all the time.

U2 was another one I wrestled with - on one level Rattle & Hum has a lot of New Jersey qualities, but is it really an album-album or one of those continuance albums like Zooropa and the '80s live EPs? They definitely sacrificed their Rattle & Hum personas to survive - passes the "hollow" test - but what about How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb? That managed to go 3x platinum of mega-promotion - just south of All You Can't Leave Behind's 4x plat - despite far weaker singles? And Achtung Baby was no career decline compared to No Line On The Horizon.

Though basically, while I pruned the list to the strongest arguments, if there's a strong argument to be made for a multi-platinum album I think we should throw it on in a poll. So maybe put Adrenalize, Rattle and Atomic on?

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 12:42 (five years ago) Permalink

as a coda:

New Kids on the Block - Step By Step

3x platinum with two top tens, including one #1 (the title track). The third single "Let's Try It Again," however, stopped at #53. Their next album generated one top fifteen and had one less New Kid (the Old Kid left).

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 9 August 2012 12:42 (five years ago) Permalink

"3x platinum off mega-promotion" i mean xpost

yeah nkotb probably deserves inclusion for managing to get "Tonight" in the top 10.

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 12:44 (five years ago) Permalink

it's probably a point in Adrenalize's favor that 10-year-old me bought maybe a dozen CDs in 1992 and that was one of them.

everyone who pretended to like me is goon (some dude), Thursday, 9 August 2012 12:47 (five years ago) Permalink

I keep forgetting how young some of you are.

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 9 August 2012 12:49 (five years ago) Permalink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTo3N73hpPg

a horseshit Beatles homage second single in the top ten really is more New Jersey than Fairweather Johnson

(and before anyone says anything, Tears For Fears' Seeds Of Love only went single platinum)

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 12:49 (five years ago) Permalink

not only a Beatles homage BUT a self-reflexive commentary!

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 9 August 2012 12:50 (five years ago) Permalink

Is this based on some statistic or is it just an impression people have? I've been wondering. I can believe that a lot of people might have sold it back, although I still think Monster is a good album, one I'd easily rate over Green and probably over Out of Time.

yeah it's not a hard stat but an impression that was included in any article about Used CD stores for a while. I love Monster, but have to admit there's been a drop in its estimation over the years, esp compared to Automatic.

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 13:01 (five years ago) Permalink

A couple more contenders with big lead single(s) and no legacy:

Texas - The Hush
The Killers - Day & Age

I was wondering about Coldplay, specifically Viva La Vida, but I think they've probably managed to avoid this fate.

Ismael Klata, Thursday, 9 August 2012 13:04 (five years ago) Permalink

I'd say Sam's Town more than D&A.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 9 August 2012 13:09 (five years ago) Permalink

Coldplay may count. i was gonna say X&Y is theirs but somehow that's their biggest selling album in the UK!?

everyone who pretended to like me is goon (some dude), Thursday, 9 August 2012 13:17 (five years ago) Permalink

Viva La Vida is one of their biggest singles - X&Y sounded like a New Jersey but they survived it handily.

Get wolves (DL), Thursday, 9 August 2012 13:20 (five years ago) Permalink

I decided I'd rock New Jersey itself this afternoon, but tbh three songs in and I'm not sure how much more I can take.

Bombast! everywhere. This appears to be an album constructed entirely of moments to be hollered along to in stadiums. Which are mostly fine in isolation, actually, but they haven't been knitted together at all. 'Bad Medicine' is completely deranged - there are about six different choruses here, but no verses and no progression; chanting crowds burst in continually; guitar solos like jet engines; the key changes randomly. It reminds me of those Jive Bunny style megamixes that were popular around the same time.

The effect is like reeling around drunkenly inside an iron maiden.

Ismael Klata, Thursday, 9 August 2012 13:32 (five years ago) Permalink

bad medicine is terrible

Listen to this, dad (President Keyes), Thursday, 9 August 2012 13:33 (five years ago) Permalink

Worst Summer job ever was working at the Tilly Balloon Co. (the Monster artwork is one of their balloons).
Spending all day "testing" balloons. Put balloon over spigot... send air into balloon... balloon pops in your face 3x outta 10 (no, you DON'T get used to this).

Was still more fun than listening to "Monster" though.

mr.raffles, Thursday, 9 August 2012 13:38 (five years ago) Permalink

and we could've had more medicine!

The album was initially meant to be a double album; however, this idea was rejected by the record company because they got nervous about the higher price point and decided they would only release a single album

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 9 August 2012 13:38 (five years ago) Permalink

My theory re: New Jersey is that somewhere along the line they and Fairbairn (he produced, right?) realized Hysteria was turning out huge, went "Oh shit" and mixed the album accordingly.

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 9 August 2012 13:39 (five years ago) Permalink

I am trying to work the Foo Fighters into this theory. By all accounts it should be 'There Is Nothing Left To Lose' but my guess is they got even bigger after that?

Matt DC, Thursday, 9 August 2012 13:41 (five years ago) Permalink

Yeah. Hysteria added a wrinkle in the seven-singles-plus formula: the fourth and fifth singles could be the biggest ones.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 9 August 2012 13:42 (five years ago) Permalink

what about the Chili Peppers' By The Way?

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 9 August 2012 13:43 (five years ago) Permalink

Absolutely

Get wolves (DL), Thursday, 9 August 2012 13:53 (five years ago) Permalink

only went 2x platinum

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 13:55 (five years ago) Permalink

also one could argue RHCP has stayed the same, it's just the Modern Rock Chart that's gotten smaller

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 13:55 (five years ago) Permalink

pretty hard to find New Jerseys that actually did half of New Jersey's numbers in the 2000s on

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 13:57 (five years ago) Permalink

I am trying to work the Foo Fighters into this theory. By all accounts it should be 'There Is Nothing Left To Lose' but my guess is they got even bigger after that?

― Matt DC, Thursday, August 9, 2012 9:41 AM (14 minutes ago) Bookmark

almost every FF album has sold more or less the same amount, had more or less the same success with singles, with The Colour & The Shape standing slightly above the others. that kind of workmanlike arc probably is a different matter entirely than too big to fail New Jerseys.

everyone who pretended to like me is goon (some dude), Thursday, 9 August 2012 13:59 (five years ago) Permalink

I think Rattle & Hum has to count - as Euler points out, "it had a movie!" It got thrown under the bus later and now seems obviously a minor work, "nothing to see here, practically an EP really" - but it was a huge deal, heavily promoted "event," right? Plus one #3 Hot 100 single, and all four singles peaked pretty high on Mainstream and/or Modern Rock. And in the UK, "Desire" was their first #1! (Pushed there, I think, by momentum from The Joshua Tree - but still.)

Foo Fighters don't have one - "workmanlike arc" is right. Consistent sales, no sense of having a particular BLOCKBUSTER album. I also think they just occupy a weird niche of unfashionable but perennially popular meat-and-potatoes rock that leads people to find them and leave them without necessarily becoming career fans that own all the albums, or at least this was my experience. Hence my assertion on the FF thread that the last good Foo Fighters album is the last one that came out before you were 18 or 19.

Doctor Casino, Thursday, 9 August 2012 14:02 (five years ago) Permalink

yeah as i said, i think Rattle & Hum and Atomic both qualify - feels fitting U2 has two hollow hits to their credit, one pre-sunglasses, one post.

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 14:04 (five years ago) Permalink

Atomic also won Album Of The Year at the Grammys, to verify its validity here

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 14:05 (five years ago) Permalink

Like Santana's Supernatural, this album was awarded nine Grammy Awards overall in 2005 and 2006, winning in all of the categories in which it was nominated. It was awarded the Album of the Year award in 2006. "Sometimes You Can't Make It on Your Own" from the album was awarded "Song of the Year" and "Best Rock Performance by a Duo or Group with Vocal". "City of Blinding Lights" was awarded the award for "Best Rock Song", and the album was also awarded "Best Rock Album". Album producer Steve Lillywhite was also awarded Producer of the Year, Non Classical in 2006. In 2005, the single "Vertigo" from the album won in all three categories in which it was nominated: "Best Rock Song", "Best Rock Performance by a Duo or Group with Vocal", and "Best Short Form Music Video".

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 14:06 (five years ago) Permalink

I have the misfortune to work for a division which often uses "City of Blinding Lights" as Inspirational Music. U2 as new Vangelis.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 9 August 2012 14:07 (five years ago) Permalink

Atomic Bomb is so recent though (in my warped perception of time), and I don't really keep up with U2 fans and their discourse - - what's the C.W. on it at this point?

xxpost haha wowwww, okay, yeah, i dunno what the c.w. is but i doubt it measures up to THAT

Doctor Casino, Thursday, 9 August 2012 14:08 (five years ago) Permalink

Best Rock Song two years in a row

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 14:13 (five years ago) Permalink

Gosh, that was gruelling. It's actually quite intricately put together - there are whole nations' worth of backing vocals - but obviously no subtlety or finesse. It's a bit like attempting the Mona Lisa in marker pen.

Ismael Klata, Thursday, 9 August 2012 14:14 (five years ago) Permalink

Agreed on Rattle and Hum being necessary. Not LEAST for inspiring the Most Legendarily Horrible Piece of Writing On Rock Ever:

http://articles.latimes.com/1988-11-20/entertainment/ca-441_1_rock-band

I read this in fall quarter of freshman year at UCLA, having just moved to Los Angeles for the first time, and immediately learned to mistrust anything Hilburn claimed. This served me well.

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 9 August 2012 14:15 (five years ago) Permalink

...we probably do have to actually poll New Jersey the album at some point, but i don't think i'm ready for that point to arrive. BTW GUESS WHO HAS GODDAMN BAD MEDICINE IN HIS HEAD AGAIN

Doctor Casino, Thursday, 9 August 2012 14:17 (five years ago) Permalink

I'm not sure I'll have space for anything in my head again

Ismael Klata, Thursday, 9 August 2012 14:18 (five years ago) Permalink

Did we even talk about the video? With Sam Kinison and forced cinema verite?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOUtsybozjg

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 9 August 2012 14:19 (five years ago) Permalink

And hair, let us not forget the hair.

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 9 August 2012 14:19 (five years ago) Permalink

U2 has shown a tendency to listen to criticism. For example, there has been occasional grumbling--even from critics and fans who greatly admire U2's work--that the band's high-idealed tales of social conscience and responsibility sometimes gave the impression of a holier-than-thou attitude. Lead singer Hewson, who writes the band's lyrics, stressed repeatedly in interviews in recent years that he was not the man of virtue and honor outlined in such songs as "Pride (In the Name of Love).

Doctor Casino, Thursday, 9 August 2012 14:19 (five years ago) Permalink

Honor (In the Name of Virtue)

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 9 August 2012 14:20 (five years ago) Permalink

In the album's most naked moment, Hewson sings about the struggle of musicians (or all artists) who have to keep reaching deeper and deeper inside themselves for truths.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 9 August 2012 14:21 (five years ago) Permalink

oh god.

"They may . . . pull off the feat of getting B.B. back on the Top 40 for the first time in a couple of decades and they've surely re-established blues as the musical center of modern rock, which is a prerequisite for restoring a sense of center to pop music and its offshoots."

Don't you tell me what is and isn't a prerequisite, David Marsh!

mr.raffles, Thursday, 9 August 2012 14:22 (five years ago) Permalink

always dug Neil Tennant's response:

"What [rock critics} basically want is for it to be like 1969 again. It's this thing where British – or in U2's case, Irish – groups discover the roots of American music. U2 have discovered this and they're just doing pastiches [his voice rises] and it's reviewed as a serious thing because DYLAN PLAYS ORGAN on some song and B.B. King plays on some throwaway pop song "When Love Comes to Town" that could have been written by Andrew Lloyd Webber. It could be in 'Starlight Express' if you ask me."

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 9 August 2012 14:23 (five years ago) Permalink

pull off the feat of getting B.B. back on the Top 40 for the first time in a couple of decades

um, BB had top 40 hits in the 70s and "Love Comes To Town" only made it to #68

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 14:24 (five years ago) Permalink

Bono's Most Naked Moment, on a stool in Vegas

everyone who pretended to like me is goon (some dude), Thursday, 9 August 2012 14:26 (five years ago) Permalink

brilliant Tennant quote.

mr.raffles, Thursday, 9 August 2012 14:29 (five years ago) Permalink

xpost -- That puts all kinds of wrong images in my head.

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 9 August 2012 14:29 (five years ago) Permalink

what's with the naked stools lately

keeping things contextual (DJP), Thursday, 9 August 2012 14:33 (five years ago) Permalink

"Live Real Bonos!"

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 9 August 2012 14:34 (five years ago) Permalink

blame max

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 9 August 2012 14:34 (five years ago) Permalink

A thousand naked Bono impersonators behind him as he comes to sing his smooth-jazz version of "The Real Bono Vox"...

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 9 August 2012 14:35 (five years ago) Permalink

i'd say Merriweather Post Pavillion, which was a relatively huge event in the indiesphere

diamonddave85, Thursday, 9 August 2012 14:40 (five years ago) Permalink

This is a thread about the real world.

Matt DC, Thursday, 9 August 2012 14:41 (five years ago) Permalink

That is a terrible terrible article, Ned. Thanks! I haven't laughed so much in ages. "Rattle and hum" was a HUGE event in the UK. I can remember a week or so before it came out, some DJ was doing a Radio One roadshow OB from somewhere and was interviewing a lorry driver. "So, what's in the lorry?" asked the DJ. "Thousands of copies of the new U2 album" the driver replied. The DJ and OB audience gave a small collective gasp, as if this driver was carrying the ark of the covenant. It was an EVENT.

Rob M Revisited, Thursday, 9 August 2012 14:42 (five years ago) Permalink

some throwaway pop song "When Love Comes to Town" that could have been written by Andrew Lloyd Webber.

Tennant seems not to understand that this is a very high standard of pop songcraft!

I want to say that Andrew Lloyd Webber's New Jersey is Starlight Express, but that might require pretending that Phantom of the Opera doesn't exist.

Guayaquil (eephus!), Thursday, 9 August 2012 14:43 (five years ago) Permalink

so if it's cool with Upper Miss - since he's the one who came up with this concept - I'd like to put up a poll tomorrow containing the albums I listed plus Rattle & Hum, Adrenalize, How To Build An Atomic Bomb and Step By Step. If anyone can think up an album that went at least 3x platinum in the US (and don't assume it did, because you're probably wrong, especially if it came out after 2000) that also fits the description, please offer it up.

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 14:45 (five years ago) Permalink

Chocolate Starfish and the Hot Dog Flavored Water?

keeping things contextual (DJP), Thursday, 9 August 2012 14:47 (five years ago) Permalink

Don De Lillo's New Jersey = Underworld.

Matt DC, Thursday, 9 August 2012 14:47 (five years ago) Permalink

and actually, as much as I love the hits on 50 Cent's The Massacre I can definitely see the argument so I'll throw that on too.

xpost i really don't have a sense that fans are like 'nookie roolz, rollin' droolz' but what the hey it's not like we have the space.

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 14:48 (five years ago) Permalink

not like we don't, i mean

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 14:48 (five years ago) Permalink

Fore! and Afterburner def gives me flashbacks to when I saw Columbia House ads in rock magazines.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 9 August 2012 14:49 (five years ago) Permalink

i'll also throw on Seger's Against The Wind, at worst we'll have people debating the merits of late '70s early '80s seger singles and it will get 2 votes.

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 14:49 (five years ago) Permalink

The list so far:

Garth Brooks, Sevens (10x platinum)
Backstreet Boys, Black & Blue (8x platinum)
Bon Jovi, New Jersey (7x platinum)
Guns'n'Roses, Use Your Illusion I & II (7x platinum each)
Cranberries, No Need To Argue (7x platinum)
Limp Bizkit, Chocolate Starfish & The Hot Dog Flavored Water (6x platinum)
Journey, Frontiers (6x platinum)
ZZ Top, Afterburner (5x platinum)
50 Cent, The Massacre (5x platinum)
U2, Rattle & Hum (5x platinum)
Billy Joel, River Of Dreams (5x platinum)
Bob Seger, Against The Wind (5x platinum)
R.E.M., Monster (4x platinum)
Bone Thugs-n-Harmony, The Art Of War (4x platinum)
Boston, Third Stage (4x platinum)
Genesis, We Can't Dance (4x platinum)
AC/DC, For Those About To Rock We Salute You (4x platinum)
Lionel Richie, Dancing On The Ceiling (4x platinum)
Spice Girls, Spiceworld (4x platinum)
U2, How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb (3x platinum)
Paula Abdul, Spellbound (3x platinum)
Def Leppard, Adrenalize (3x platinum)
Huey Lewis, Fore! (3x platinum)
Foreigner, Agent Provocateur (3x platinum)
New Kids On The Block, Step By Step (3x platinum)

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 14:59 (five years ago) Permalink

The Eminem Show (8x platinum, I think)

Matt DC, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:01 (five years ago) Permalink

nice work! gonna have to go back through the thread today and see if anything jumps out...

Doctor Casino, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:01 (five years ago) Permalink

we discusses this earlier, but the album before "Lose Yourself" and 8 Mile did not signal a career decline

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:02 (five years ago) Permalink

maybe artistically, but not commercially

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:02 (five years ago) Permalink

Yeah, but the album before Encore did. I think it counts anyway on virtue of "hugely successful album that nobody rates very highly at this point." "Lose Yourself" is basically an errant data point in Eminem's career arc, right? My sense of the CW at this point is "Peaked with Marshall Mathers LP" but I'd have to read some Eminem threads in detail to corroborate that.

Doctor Casino, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:04 (five years ago) Permalink

Encore still sold 5x platinum, and in the mid '00s. Eminem Show didn't "have a movie!" the movie came after and it was a big fucking hit. Eminem Show is like Bad where it wasn't Thriller but it was enormous and the guy kept being enormous so haters stop hating.

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:05 (five years ago) Permalink

I still think Atomic is more of a New Jersey than Rattle & Hum, but the latter at least has the whiff of embarrassment. Eminem never said sorry about anything until Relapse.

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:07 (five years ago) Permalink

he said sorry to his mama in "Cleanin' Out My Closet."

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:07 (five years ago) Permalink

i don't think he really meant it though

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:08 (five years ago) Permalink

did not signal a career decline
This is the main reason that Rattle & Hum feels a slightly awkward fit to me - the fact that they followed it up very successfully with Achtung Baby (albeit with quite a bit of a change in sound and image). It def fits in terms of an album that sold well and was a Big Deal at the time but is largely forgotten/ignored now though.

record-collection rave (Mr Andy M), Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:08 (five years ago) Permalink

Yeah, I think I've generally been more interested in the "ultimately feels a bit hollow" than the "signals a career decline" aspect of the New Jersey - just how much an album's narrative position can reverse as a result of larger things (shift in taste, shift in fanbase, band's metanarrative, radio format stuff, and yeah, subsequent career decline). But that's me trying to rewrite the definition so maybe Eminem Show doesn't count really.

Doctor Casino, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:09 (five years ago) Permalink

If the Eminem Show doesn't count then Encore definitely does.

Matt DC, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:10 (five years ago) Permalink

xpost to myself in that way it's perhaps comparable to The Great Escape by Blur - albums that despite performing well led to a realisation that the 'more of what you love' approach had run its course and that there was a need to go back to the drawing board for the next record.
Be Here Now by Oasis is a bona-fide, gold-standard New Jersey though.

record-collection rave (Mr Andy M), Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:12 (five years ago) Permalink

I think Encore might actually be closer to Eminem's Fairweather Johnson.

Doctor Casino, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:12 (five years ago) Permalink

Don De Lillo's New Jersey = Underworld.

OTM!

Guayaquil (eephus!), Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:12 (five years ago) Permalink

more on Encore - Like, I was going to just say "the hell, everyone hated that album and it flopped totally" but checking Wiki, nope, damn thing did 5x platinum in the US... but the singles were frighteningly unsuccessful for a top-tier artist. Chart peaks: Just Lose It (#6), Encore (#25), Like Toy Soldiers (#34), Mockingbird (#11), Ass Like That (#60).

Doctor Casino, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:14 (five years ago) Permalink

Like, "Mockingbird" aside (side note, I don't remember this song at all), that's the story of an album that had strong momentum going in, enough to push a weak first single into the top ten for a second, and then the wheels came off.

Doctor Casino, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:16 (five years ago) Permalink

yeah Encore should be in there imo

everyone who pretended to like me is goon (some dude), Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:16 (five years ago) Permalink

i mean has an album ever sold so much with the artist telegraphing "i don't like doing this anymore and i'm hoping you stop making me" so clearly?

everyone who pretended to like me is goon (some dude), Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:17 (five years ago) Permalink

They're horrible singles but no more so than Adrenalize, and bigger (three went Gold!). However, when the follow-up came around the bloom was definitely off the rose. He's pushed 3x platinum out of Recovery and will always be Rap's Elvis right to Vegas, but he definitely lost some luster after Encore. I'm going to include that as a sop to the Shady-haters.

Be Here Now would be a New Jersey in the UK, but in the US it only went platinum. Definitely a fairweather johnson here.

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:17 (five years ago) Permalink

dangit, i was trying to push Encore as Fairweather Johnson, oops

Eminem's arc has a kink in it because of the 4-5 year "retirement"; granted acts often go that long between albums anyway, but Relapse didn't really feel like "the followup to Encore," it was the comeback album....with Recovery being the actual comeback album where suddenly he's a huge-selling name again.

Doctor Casino, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:20 (five years ago) Permalink

the release of the "Mosh" video just before the 2004 election felt like an event (stupid as that may seem in retrospect)

Euler, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:20 (five years ago) Permalink

comeback album or not, Relapse did really badly and the fact that Encore was an ass platter probably didn't help

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:22 (five years ago) Permalink

I don't think No Need To Argue is a New Jersey. The album was a hit in its own right, not because it was riding on it's predecessor's success. And "Zombie" is ten times better remembered than "Linger".

LeRooLeRoo, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:22 (five years ago) Permalink

not on ilx!

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:23 (five years ago) Permalink

I thought Zombie was remembered on ILX as the high-water mark of horrible music.

Matt DC, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:24 (five years ago) Permalink

I was debating No Need To Argue - it may be the only album listed that did better than the previous one - but people really do hate it here and the follow-up was a yeargh drop. If everyone loves it they can vote for it as the Best New Jersey and shame "Zombie"-phobes.

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:26 (five years ago) Permalink

Things I didn't forsee myself doing today - searching 'Eminem discography' on wikipedia.

record-collection rave (Mr Andy M), Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:27 (five years ago) Permalink

But where Rattle & Hum and Be Here Now fail the test is that they were exposed as steaming piles almost immediately. A true New Jersey keeps going, like Wile E. Coyote off his cliff, until the collective realisation much later.

Ismael Klata, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:29 (five years ago) Permalink

the release of the "Mosh" video just before the 2004 election felt like an event (stupid as that may seem in retrospect)

― Euler, Thursday, August 9, 2012 11:20 AM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark

lol 52 professional critics were so desperate for a political moment in pop music that they put "Mosh" on their Pazz & Jop ballots

everyone who pretended to like me is goon (some dude), Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:30 (five years ago) Permalink

But where Rattle & Hum and Be Here Now fail the test is that they were exposed as steaming piles almost immediately. A true New Jersey keeps going, like Wile E. Coyote off his cliff, until the collective realisation much later.
Yeah this is actually a fair point. My memory may be faulty but with Be Here Now I don't even remember the singles getting much radio play with the exception of Stand By Me (they still charted fairly well though).

record-collection rave (Mr Andy M), Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:32 (five years ago) Permalink

it's been mentioned upthread but there was a pretty sharp divide with Be Here Now being initially pretty successful in the UK but not so much in the US. although i did see the goddamn "All Around The World" video on MTV quite a lot.

everyone who pretended to like me is goon (some dude), Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:35 (five years ago) Permalink

Lol All Around The World was such a steaming pile, totally fits that hollow, bloated vibe we've been discussing here.

record-collection rave (Mr Andy M), Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:36 (five years ago) Permalink

wasn't it used in a commercial a few years ago?

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:37 (five years ago) Permalink

ok so actually does anyone mind if I take out No Need To Argue? I think my judgement may have been clouded by the anti-"Zombie" bile on here, it's not like Cranberries fans per se have obvious beef with it, could definitely be argued To The Faithfully Departed (which still sold 2x platinum) was their Fairweather Johnson.

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:38 (five years ago) Permalink

In the US, I feel like there was maybe a two-month period where you would hear "D'ya Know What I Mean" and "Don't Go Away" in not-very-heavy rotation, and then they just disappeared. I heard "Don't Go Away" at the grocery store earlier this year and was kind of floored like, how did that make the playlist?

A Be Here Now is probably its own shorthand already, right? For a massively anticipated album that just disappoints everyone from the word go, incredibly negative critical consensus, sense that success has gone to the band's heads. Fairweather Johnsons just miss the moment and fade into the night, Be Here Nows suck and everybody knows it.

xpost i kinda like "all around the world" tho

Doctor Casino, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:39 (five years ago) Permalink

keeping Rattle & Hum cuz some people obviously want it, plus fuck U2

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:40 (five years ago) Permalink

BHN got spectacular reviews in England iirc

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:43 (five years ago) Permalink

The level of hubris around Oasis was so great in 1997 that everyone who reviewed it convinced themselves it was a classic and then got very embarrassed when they'd calmed down a bit.

Matt DC, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:45 (five years ago) Permalink

Kind of interested to see how this poll rolls - - glad it's "Best" rather than "Worst," since the latter would just be piling up conventional wisdom on albums that we all know suck.

I'm also amazed, by the way, that we've gone this long without any die-hard Bon Jovi fans - - Googler or otherwise - - barging in to lecture us on how New Jersey is amazing and that true Jovvalos widely agree that it, not Slippery When Wet, is their real lasting achievement.

Doctor Casino, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:45 (five years ago) Permalink

i will take "I'll Be There For You" over "Wanted Dead Or Alive"

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:46 (five years ago) Permalink

waht is springsteens new jersey

The 5 CD live set, Live 1975-1985

kornrulez6969, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:46 (five years ago) Permalink

considered it but nah, followed by Tunnel Love which is still adored as hell.

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:47 (five years ago) Permalink

also remarkable display of hubris or no, weird to say the mega-live set signaled a career decline for a guy who's never not filled those stadiums since

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:48 (five years ago) Permalink

btw, just wanted to share this: the first Google search result for "what are bon jovi fans called" begins ominously: The Bon Jovi fan fiction community is small, with the few communities out there not being...

did not find out what bon jovi fans are called, leaning towards "Jovvalos" or perhaps "Bon Bronies"

Doctor Casino, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:49 (five years ago) Permalink

Afterburner is probably the most archetypical of these because woah 5 million copies and you never hear any of those songs anymore, plus it's called AFTERBURNER for chrissakes

everyone who pretended to like me is goon (some dude), Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:50 (five years ago) Permalink

If Human Touch & Lucky Town had been combined for a one album release I bet that would have pushed past 3x platinum and then be his jersey.

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:50 (five years ago) Permalink

Would go for the Love Symbol album over D&P tbh. D&P was surely more of a mini-comeback after Graffiti Bridge and allowing for the novelty of Batman.

former too bloated, less memorable singles, certainly somewhat less successful units wise

You definitely hear My Name is Prince/SexyMF/Morning Papers etc less than D&P/Cream/Money Dont matter

Master of Treacle, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:53 (five years ago) Permalink

Yeah, now I understand the question better, I vote that too.

Mark G, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:54 (five years ago) Permalink

i will take "I'll Be There For You" over "Wanted Dead Or Alive"

you are certifiably insane

Would go for the Love Symbol album over D&P tbh

I was thinking this, but I really like Love Symbol and I DESPISE Diamonds and Pearls aside from "Gett Off"

keeping things contextual (DJP), Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:54 (five years ago) Permalink

wait you didn't include my simple minds example. or didn't it sell enough? it must have sold millions.

scott seward, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:55 (five years ago) Permalink

I def prefer the NJ singles to Slippery When Wet's.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:55 (five years ago) Permalink

Critical consensus round Be Here Now: iirc NME embarrassed themselves by giving What's The Story a (6), only to greet BHN with a euphoric (9).

There was definitely something in the air you could see coming, though - I had everything Oasis released up to the lead single (which I even liked), but was not for a second tempted to buy BHN.

Ismael Klata, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:56 (five years ago) Permalink

Does anyone have an argument against Jewel's Spirit as an NJ?

Listen to this, dad (President Keyes), Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:56 (five years ago) Permalink

Can we clear up whether it's 'an NJ' or 'a NJ' first please?

Ismael Klata, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:57 (five years ago) Permalink

Scott, Simple Minds only went gold in the US. UK different story.

At the risk of getting stabbed through the internet, I could see an argument for Around The World In A Day in the sense that it went 3x platinum, which is better than any album since including Batman and Sign O' The Times (which as a 2CD only has to sell half as many copies to get the award). While he had plenty of hits after (and movies!), it seems like America was a little scared to buy a full-length on the level of Purple Rain after "America."

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:57 (five years ago) Permalink

I liked "D'ya Know What I Mean" a lot more than any other Oasis song I'd heard up to that point, although still not enough to actually consider purchasing the album

keeping things contextual (DJP), Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:58 (five years ago) Permalink

Maybe there's another thread in the "This is great, but now it's done" vein, where the band/artist achieve the close.

Mark G, Thursday, 9 August 2012 15:59 (five years ago) Permalink

Spirit only had one hit, which is a little Fairweather Johnson.

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 16:00 (five years ago) Permalink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEM78ElGthI

The intro sounds like ZZ Top attempting "Rockit."

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 9 August 2012 16:00 (five years ago) Permalink

Vox gave BHN a 9 as well

I would go for either the live album or Street Fighting Years over OUAT; if only for the fact that for millions the latter was their first SM album

Stones - It's Only Rock and Roll? I can see Black and Blue but this could fit.

Master of Treacle, Thursday, 9 August 2012 16:00 (five years ago) Permalink

i love that video so much - in the drive to top the Eliminator videos, ZZ Top now have the ability to make tents out of thin air.

3x platinum cut-off, people. 3x platinum.

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 16:01 (five years ago) Permalink

as mentioned upthread, all Stones albums are Events. Plus, their two biggest sellers came out after IOR&R.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 9 August 2012 16:01 (five years ago) Permalink

The level of hubris around Oasis was so great in 1997 that everyone who reviewed it convinced themselves it was a classic and then got very embarrassed when they'd calmed down a bit.
Yeah this is basically my memory of it. I feel like the realisation of crapness set in a bit more quickly for BHN than for some of the other albums we've been discussing, but again this is just a vauge memory (might check if the BHN wiki has a 'reception' section to give some clarity).

record-collection rave (Mr Andy M), Thursday, 9 August 2012 16:03 (five years ago) Permalink

Although initial reviews were positive, retrospectively the album is viewed by much of the music press, the public, and by most members of the band as over-indulgent and bloated.[1] In 2007, Q magazine, having given the album a five-star rave review on its release, described the fact that Be Here Now is often thought of as "a disastrous, overblown folly—the moment when Oasis, their judgement clouded by drugs and blanket adulation, ran aground on their own sky-high self-belief."[2] The album's producer Owen Morris said of the recording sessions: "The only reason anyone was there was the money. Noel had decided Liam was a shit singer. Liam had decided he hated Noel's songs [...] Massive amounts of drugs. Big fights. Bad vibes. Shit recordings."[2]

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 9 August 2012 16:05 (five years ago) Permalink

John Mellencamp - Scarecrow

Master of Treacle, Thursday, 9 August 2012 16:05 (five years ago) Permalink

Spirit only had one hit, which is a little Fairweather Johnson.

Still it went 4X Platinum in America. (And 2X Platinum in Australia)

Listen to this, dad (President Keyes), Thursday, 9 August 2012 16:07 (five years ago) Permalink

nah Scarecrow is beloved 'round here, and The Lonesome Jubilee is widely thought his best.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 9 August 2012 16:07 (five years ago) Permalink


Spirit only had one hit, which is a little Fairweather Johnson.

Still it went 4X Platinum in America. (And 2X Platinum in Australia)

And fairweather went 3x platinum. It's a slippery slope, and I'll include it you plan to say its her best and vote for it.

If people didn't like Lonesome Jubilee it would be his New Jersey, but yeah instead I think Coog is a "Secret Life Of Plants" guy thanks to Big Daddy.

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 16:09 (five years ago) Permalink

there were at least 2 videos off the Jewel album that i saw a lot of. i think video channels towing the line even when radio shrugs is kind of a hallmark of these albums.

some dude, Thursday, 9 August 2012 16:09 (five years ago) Permalink

How about Tattoo You?

Doctor Casino, Thursday, 9 August 2012 16:11 (five years ago) Permalink

their two biggest sellers came out after IOR&R

For real?! Some Girls and Tattoo You?

Ismael Klata, Thursday, 9 August 2012 16:11 (five years ago) Permalink

Its hodgepodge nature aside, does anybody really think it's hollow?

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 9 August 2012 16:12 (five years ago) Permalink

there were at least 2 videos off the Jewel album that i saw a lot of.

and fairweather had two top 40 hits. if you guys really want to vote for jewel as Best New Jersey i'll add it, but it really does blur the line. it's a 4x platinum album after a diamond release, with only one big hit.

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 16:12 (five years ago) Permalink

johnson! we've got johnson here!

Doctor Casino, Thursday, 9 August 2012 16:13 (five years ago) Permalink

For real?! Some Girls and Tattoo You?

Check the sales. SG is 7 million.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 9 August 2012 16:14 (five years ago) Permalink

ways you can escape the new jersey:

EVERY ALBUM IS AN EVENT, BITCHES. PAY NO ATTENTION TO THE SOUNDSCAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN. (i.e. Stones, Michael Jackson)

"I'm going to tone it down a little here so don't feel like you have to buy this....what's that? I only go single platinum if that now? Ah, well. Let's go tour." (i.e. Bruce, Coug, Sting)

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 16:14 (five years ago) Permalink

if my judgment of the past is unreliable, pardon my cracked rearview

some dude, Thursday, 9 August 2012 16:15 (five years ago) Permalink

does anyone have an issue with Around The World In A Day making the list? If your name rhymes with Shman Shmerry, just consider it an easy pick to vote for.

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 16:17 (five years ago) Permalink

*sits in corner, sadly contemplating the girl on the seesaw*

keeping things contextual (DJP), Thursday, 9 August 2012 16:21 (five years ago) Permalink

it is the kind of album you find in a second-hand store

some dude, Thursday, 9 August 2012 16:23 (five years ago) Permalink

yeah it's really the fact that it's sold more than any of the albums since, whether critical beasts with #1 hits or Batman soundtracks, despite being considered one of his weakest efforts (if still arguably godly depending on your pov) that really makes it stand out.

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 16:25 (five years ago) Permalink

NJ sales wise is at least in the same ballpark as Slippery; ATWIAD isn't at all compared to Purple Rain

Diamonds has sold more

Master of Treacle, Thursday, 9 August 2012 16:30 (five years ago) Permalink

sales figures being used are US-centric

keeping things contextual (DJP), Thursday, 9 August 2012 16:31 (five years ago) Permalink

yeah i'm seeing around the world in a day at 3x platinum, diamonds at 2x platinum in US sales

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 16:31 (five years ago) Permalink

Is there a 'Secret Life of Plants'-style release thread? Insane left-turns are fun!

mr.raffles, Thursday, 9 August 2012 16:32 (five years ago) Permalink

rejoice, prince lovers!

So I checked the RIAA site myself and couldn't find a 3x platinum trophy for the album. I googled and billboard also claims that the album only went double-platinum. So it looks like someone typo'd on wikipedia and Around The World In A Day is not eligible.

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 16:37 (five years ago) Permalink

though someone should definitely do a poll of the prince albums that have hit double platinum (1999 and purple rain are the only to go further)

"Around the World in a Day" (1985), 2-times Platinum
"Diamonds and Pearls" (1991), 2-times Platinum
"Emancipation" (1996), 2-times Platinum
"Batman (soundtrack)" (1989), 2-times Platinum
"Musicology" (2004), 2-times Platinum

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 16:38 (five years ago) Permalink

notable one of those is a 3CD and another was given away with concert tickets

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 16:39 (five years ago) Permalink

and Batman was helped by the movie and Around the World by Purple Rain.

Diamonds as the only one to get there under its own steam?

mr.raffles, Thursday, 9 August 2012 16:41 (five years ago) Permalink

more like under its own...cream

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 16:42 (five years ago) Permalink

it's kind of amazing considering the man managed at least one top ten hit every year from 1983-1994

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 16:43 (five years ago) Permalink

oh wait no 1993, but still

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 16:43 (five years ago) Permalink

N.B. - people fuck with certification info on artists' Wikipedia pages all the time, usually inflating certs by 1 to 2 million. I'm kind of a geek about this stuff, so I'd advise anyone citing these numbers to check the RIAA database instead: http://riaa.com/goldandplatinumdata.php?content_selector=gold-platinum-searchable-database

Just for instance, ATWIAD is 2x Platinum (tying it with D&P and Batman), Some Girls is 6x Platinum, Encore is 4x Platinum (though if you check Soundscan, which measures actual sales rather than shipments minus returns, it has indeed sold over 5 million copies in the U.S.).

mobs of burly teen christgaus (thewufs), Thursday, 9 August 2012 16:45 (five years ago) Permalink

See I was beaten to the punch on Prince, but my point stands.

mobs of burly teen christgaus (thewufs), Thursday, 9 August 2012 16:45 (five years ago) Permalink

didn't "The Most Beautiful Girl in the World" peak in early '94?

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 9 August 2012 16:45 (five years ago) Permalink

cool, i'll go through the lot xpost re RIAA

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 16:45 (five years ago) Permalink

Prince's Cream Steam.

mr.raffles, Thursday, 9 August 2012 16:46 (five years ago) Permalink

Said elsewhere but the whole 1985-1988 album decline* thing is bizarre, like Purple Rain never happened

Obviously not in terms of quality..

Master of Treacle, Thursday, 9 August 2012 16:52 (five years ago) Permalink

xp - "Most Beautiful Girl" hit in early '94, yeah, but due probably to his dispute with Warner Bros. the Gold Experience didn't come out until a year and a half later, far too late to capitalize on the single's momentum. Emancipation was a 3 disc set, so its cert is artificially inflated by its bulk - it actually Soundscanned less than 700k copies, a considerable disappointment given that it was designed as his post-WB comeback record.

mobs of burly teen christgaus (thewufs), Thursday, 9 August 2012 16:56 (five years ago) Permalink

So here's the updated list. Only thing that had to be changed was Encore going from 5x plat to 4x.

Garth Brooks, Sevens (10x platinum)
Backstreet Boys, Black & Blue (8x platinum)
Bon Jovi, New Jersey (7x platinum)
Guns'n'Roses, Use Your Illusion I & II (7x platinum each)
Limp Bizkit, Chocolate Starfish & The Hot Dog Flavored Water (6x platinum)
Journey, Frontiers (6x platinum)
ZZ Top, Afterburner (5x platinum)
50 Cent, The Massacre (5x platinum)
U2, Rattle & Hum (5x platinum)
Billy Joel, River Of Dreams (5x platinum)
Bob Seger, Against The Wind (5x platinum)
R.E.M., Monster (4x platinum)
Eminem, Encore (4x platinum)
Bone Thugs-n-Harmony, The Art Of War (4x platinum)
Boston, Third Stage (4x platinum)
Genesis, We Can't Dance (4x platinum)
AC/DC, For Those About To Rock We Salute You (4x platinum)
Lionel Richie, Dancing On The Ceiling (4x platinum)
Spice Girls, Spiceworld (4x platinum)
U2, How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb (3x platinum)
Paula Abdul, Spellbound (3x platinum)
Def Leppard, Adrenalize (3x platinum)
Huey Lewis, Fore! (3x platinum)
Foreigner, Agent Provocateur (3x platinum)
New Kids On The Block, Step By Step (3x platinum)

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 16:56 (five years ago) Permalink

xp - I still don't understand how "Sign O' The Times" could spin off 3 top 10 singles but stall at platinum.

mobs of burly teen christgaus (thewufs), Thursday, 9 August 2012 16:57 (five years ago) Permalink

maybe people saw a "room full of psychedelic crap" cover and a 2LP price and said FOOL ME ONCE, PRINCE. FOOL ME ONCE.

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 16:58 (five years ago) Permalink

kind of a shame that the album that inspired this whole convo gets excluded by the sales barometer, Born This Way definitely fits the archetype aside from arriving well after triple platinum became almost as rare as diamond used to be.

some dude, Thursday, 9 August 2012 17:03 (five years ago) Permalink

Probably for the best - it also inspired a lot of disagreement about whether it actually had that role in her narrative or not! I'd concede, now, that it's way too soon to say with any confidence what the real impact will be.

Doctor Casino, Thursday, 9 August 2012 17:04 (five years ago) Permalink

it still amazes me that Carter 4 managed to sell well over half of what Carter 3 sold, nobody's going to remember any of those songs within a couple years.

some dude, Thursday, 9 August 2012 17:09 (five years ago) Permalink

Apologies if this has been said before, but how about the Bjork album with an iPhone app for every song?

kornrulez6969, Thursday, 9 August 2012 17:56 (five years ago) Permalink

I feel like Kiss must have had one of these, but the sales numbers for their big albums seem ridiculously low.

Listen to this, dad (President Keyes), Thursday, 9 August 2012 18:11 (five years ago) Permalink

kiss's impressive numbers were always in tour receipts and merch revenue

some dude, Thursday, 9 August 2012 18:21 (five years ago) Permalink

what's JBJ saying there?

goole, Thursday, 9 August 2012 19:01 (five years ago) Permalink

BWWWAAAAAIIII *grins*

goole, Thursday, 9 August 2012 19:01 (five years ago) Permalink

side note, how rich is Jon Bon Jovi? How happy is he that he has all that New Jersey money lining the coffers? I would kill to put out a New Jersey myself, credibility and artistic purity be damned. I could pay off all my debt and go out for ice cream every day of the week!

Doctor Casino, Thursday, 9 August 2012 19:42 (five years ago) Permalink

I'm more interested in learning how much, say, Ric Ocasek has in his mattress: one of those guys who'll leave a $100-million estate.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 9 August 2012 19:44 (five years ago) Permalink

eh i think the guys who peaked before the late '80s have wildly divergent fortunes based on how well they invested (or indulged) in their later years. i kinda doubt Ocasek has a ton of cash sitting around. JBJ is definitely loaded, though.

some dude, Thursday, 9 August 2012 19:50 (five years ago) Permalink

Annual earnings according to FORBES: 2012: 60 Million , 2011: $125 Million Founder and lead singer of Bon Jovi,has an estimated net worth of $125 million. He gained fame in the mid-1980s as the lead singer of the hard-rock band Bon Jovi, whose albums Slippery When Wet and New Jersey became multi-platinum sellers

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 9 August 2012 19:53 (five years ago) Permalink

i bet tico torres is sitting on a bigger nest egg than ocasek

some dude, Thursday, 9 August 2012 19:55 (five years ago) Permalink

Wait, he's worth $125 million and that's also how much he made last year? Must have been a real relief when that check came in...

Doctor Casino, Thursday, 9 August 2012 19:56 (five years ago) Permalink

some more possibilties. Not swearing any deserve to match the 25 but throwing them out for consideration.

Mariah Carey, Heartbreaker (3x platinum, 2 #1 hits - "Heartbreaker" and "Thank God I Found You". Follow-ups would fail to go multi-platinum until Emancipation of Mimi)

Celine Dion, Let's Talk About Love (10x platinum, but notably no hot 100 chart action aside from THE SONG, where the previous English-language album, Falling Into You, had three top 5 hits. The next english-language full length, A New Day has Come would only go 3x platinum and the biggest song would hit #22. Though she did have two top ten hits in between albums, the R. Kelly duet and a greatest hits track)

Whitney Houston, My Love Is Your Love (4x platinum, 3 top 5 hits and top 20 duet with Mariah. Follow-up only went platinum. I wasn't listening to pop radio much when this came out, so this might be a Bad and I just don't realize the songs are jams radios still rock today.)

Eagles, The Long Run (7x platinum #1 album, 3 top 10 hits including a #1. While the Eagles reunions would be huge, Don and Glenn's solo debuts would only go gold and it's sort of thin compared to Hotel California.)

Rod Stewart, Blondes Have More Fun (3x platinum #1 album, and his last chart-topper until the Songbook and his last multi-platinum until Out Of Order almost a decade later. Admittedly not that much more hollow than the previous album, Foot Loose & Fancy Free)

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 20:23 (five years ago) Permalink

also notable re: Blondes is that Foot Loose & Fancy Free only went 2x platinum but has two songs that still get play, "Hot Legs" and "You're In My Heart" while Blondes only has 'D'ya Think I'm Sexy?')

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 20:26 (five years ago) Permalink

Eagles might be worthy - I don't recognize either of the singles that aren't the title track, but apparently they were big hits?

Doctor Casino, Thursday, 9 August 2012 20:30 (five years ago) Permalink

Wait, he's worth $125 million and that's also how much he made last year? Must have been a real relief when that check came in...

haha

Ismael Klata, Thursday, 9 August 2012 20:33 (five years ago) Permalink

Yeah I agree with taking out No Need To Argue - I think that's when a large part of the group's fanbase discovered them. I feel like one important quality of a New Jersey is the sense of market saturation, where the album (initially) soaks up everyone already on-board but isn't by itself interesting or different enough to open up a new audience.

Tim F, Thursday, 9 August 2012 20:35 (five years ago) Permalink

I keep thinking The Long Run will be the album to destroy my Eagles odium.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 9 August 2012 20:49 (five years ago) Permalink

Blondes Have More Fun is a good one.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 9 August 2012 20:49 (five years ago) Permalink

xpost Maybe it will.... in the extended sweep of time.

Doctor Casino, Thursday, 9 August 2012 20:49 (five years ago) Permalink

I could be wrong, but 'My Love is Your Love,' after the slightly under-performing pop hits of "Waiting to Exhale" and "Preacher's Wife," felt more like a comeback than anything to me.

Celine seems pretty otm. Something about huge crossover hits not feeling as guaranteed seems Jersey-esque. Or maybe post-Jersey-esque.

mr.raffles, Thursday, 9 August 2012 21:00 (five years ago) Permalink

The Preacher's Wife soundtrack is where Whitney sounded hollow.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 9 August 2012 21:06 (five years ago) Permalink

Atomic Bomb is so recent though (in my warped perception of time), and I don't really keep up with U2 fans and their discourse - - what's the C.W. on it at this point?

― Doctor Casino

U2 still plays a few of these cuts in concert, i mean 'vertigo' and 'city of blinding lights' are huge w/the fans and live they're certainly "impressive" but not especially thrilling. for whatever reason the last album is regarded as the more disappointing one. real headz know that horizon >>>> atomic bomb though.

omar little, Thursday, 9 August 2012 21:07 (five years ago) Permalink

Whereas ILX's No Line on the Horizon is its Slippery When Wet.

Doctor Casino, Thursday, 9 August 2012 21:08 (five years ago) Permalink

'City Of Blinding Lights' is the shit imo

some dude, Thursday, 9 August 2012 21:09 (five years ago) Permalink

i'm sure bon jovi still plays at least two tracks from new jersey in live shows too, and that's almost twenty years older. but new jersey is no slippery when wet and atomic bomb is no all you can leave behind.

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 21:10 (five years ago) Permalink

COBL is pretty good but my favorite U2 cut from their last three is still 'breathe', which actually opened their rose bowl show.

omar little, Thursday, 9 August 2012 21:11 (five years ago) Permalink

I preferred How to Dismantle's mix of trash and goop to ATYCLB but not so's I'd play either one now and confirm my feelings.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 9 August 2012 21:14 (five years ago) Permalink

so not to double way back but I'm listening to "I Go To Extremes" right now and I'm still convinced Storm Front is more New Jersey-ish than River of Dreams, which had only one hit to speak of, although oddly it appears it sold more. Storm Front was attached to a big-deal tour, major videos, and, I think crucially, from Joel's perspective it probably looked like his smash star career was chugging along just fine - - no reason to assume that these songs wouldn't be radio staples for decades in the way that all his past hits had been. And yet, it's vanished out from under him, a frustration anticipated by the single jacket:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/df/IGoToExtremes.jpg

Don't worry Billy! The fans will stand by "The Downeaster 'Alexa'"!

Doctor Casino, Thursday, 9 August 2012 21:17 (five years ago) Permalink

otm

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 9 August 2012 21:18 (five years ago) Permalink

COBL is pretty good but my favorite U2 cut from their last three is still 'breathe', which actually opened their rose bowl show.

― omar little, Thursday, August 9, 2012 5:11 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark

yah that was my fav from the last one too.

some dude, Thursday, 9 August 2012 21:19 (five years ago) Permalink

the '90 Billy Joel show as the first concert I ever paid to watch, and I wasn't much of a fan! It was A Big Deal at the time: seven sold out nights at the Miami Arena.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 9 August 2012 21:19 (five years ago) Permalink

Really, though, Joel's Greatest Hits Volume III is just depressing - without realizing it, they cut off the I & II series right as his creative instincts were about to go off a cliff. It's cleverly propped up by some Innocent Man material, but it's a real slew of "what?"s and "never heard of"s for me.

Doctor Casino, Thursday, 9 August 2012 21:19 (five years ago) Permalink

is "The Downeaster 'Alexa'" a real song or just a nickname for a fart?

oh wait

Euler, Thursday, 9 August 2012 21:24 (five years ago) Permalink

b-b-but the fans did stand by downeaster alexa! not to mention "and so it goes"!

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 21:26 (five years ago) Permalink

seriously, storm front has way more deep cuts that get play than either the albums before and after

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 21:27 (five years ago) Permalink

The Downwinder 'Alexa'

Doctor Casino, Thursday, 9 August 2012 21:27 (five years ago) Permalink

i don't get the "vanished out from under him" narrative at all, especially compared to The Bridge

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 21:27 (five years ago) Permalink

I loathe The Bridge for "This is the Time," the worst prom/retreat song ever.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 9 August 2012 21:29 (five years ago) Permalink

maybe when we poll these albums the thread title should be THESE ARE THE DAYS TO HOLD ON TO

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 9 August 2012 21:30 (five years ago) Permalink

storm front is definitely a big ol' arena move, but it actually succeeded on that front, doing better than the last album and giving him more long-surviving cuts. River Of Dreams sold even more (which really subverts the idea that Storm Front signaled any career decline) but wound up being thinner and the end of the road.

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 21:30 (five years ago) Permalink

I guess we must just have different FM playlists in our neighborhoods, seriously - - I've grown up hearing the Stranger through Innocent Man stuff everywhere and almost nothing else (except "Piano Man" o'course).

I'll give you The Bridge, no idea about anything on there. I was really thinking about it versus River of Dreams.

Doctor Casino, Thursday, 9 August 2012 21:31 (five years ago) Permalink

Maybe Joel just doesn't have one of these, having short-circuited the narrative by sort of bailing on the whole "making pop albums" thing. Getting out while the getting's good, I'd say.

Doctor Casino, Thursday, 9 August 2012 21:32 (five years ago) Permalink

not even "A Matter of Trust"? That still gets a shit ton of play, at least here.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 9 August 2012 21:32 (five years ago) Permalink

when I saw U2 they played "Elevation".......twice.....

i just remembered that. why did they do that?

i was kind of drunk and i don't go to many arena shows so i was kind of in that great 3 stadium glass bud light zone of everything seeming kind of magical...man their stage lights were cool as hell. so i guess i didn't really question it was just like "oh yeah elevation again" why not?

Jandek at the Disco (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 9 August 2012 21:32 (five years ago) Permalink

ha -- Paul Simon performed "You Can Call Me Al" twice when I saw him in '91.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 9 August 2012 21:34 (five years ago) Permalink

re: "Matter of Trust," just put it on to check it out - - - can't say as I've ever heard this before, ever. Kind of striking though. Not what I imagined The Bridge sounding like at all.

Doctor Casino, Thursday, 9 August 2012 21:35 (five years ago) Permalink

river of dreams is staying unless someone can actually contradict that it was a big album that ultimately was a bit hollow and signaled a career decline.

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 21:35 (five years ago) Permalink

the reasoning again: (5x platinum #1 album with 2 top 20 hits, including the #3 title track. Billy's previous album, Storm Front, had 2 top 10 hits including a #1, but only went 4x platinum. However, "We Didn't Start The Fire" is a notch above "River" on Spotify, "The Downeaster Alexa" several notches above "Lullaby - Goodnight Angel" and about half of Storm Front passes before we see "All About Soul". His only follow-up has been a classical album.)

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 21:37 (five years ago) Permalink

also storm front has "shameless" - a big hit for Garth Brooks, and "and so it goes" was covered on an American Idol top 3 episode.

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 21:39 (five years ago) Permalink

Guess my thinking is just that River of Dreams sold really well without being an "event" album - the #3 title track is the only impact it made on the wider culture, despite the high sales for the album itself, which feels like some kind of incipient Adult Contemporary buying pattern or something - - - selling a buttload of copies of something to people who aren't really watching MTV or following the unfolding of "events" even if they were being staged. I feel like NJ's really need that sense of one single after another being spun off to at least passable acclaim, keeping the album in the headlines and on TV for at least a year and more like two. Am I way off?

Doctor Casino, Thursday, 9 August 2012 21:39 (five years ago) Permalink

do we have a thread about acts doing the same song multiple times in the same concert? Jay-Z and Kanye doing "Gwyneth Paltrow In Paris" 8 times in a row or whatever was just appalling.

some dude, Thursday, 9 August 2012 21:41 (five years ago) Permalink

I feel like NJ's really need that sense of one single after another being spun off to at least passable acclaim, keeping the album in the headlines and on TV for at least a year and more like two. Am I way off?

we have to prune a good bit of shit on the list for this standard, starting with Black & Blue. The broader idea is that the album was undeniably successful - some prove it by huuuge numbers, others by multiple hits.

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 21:45 (five years ago) Permalink

Celine Dion, Let's Talk About Love is totally a New Jersey. (x-post)

LeRooLeRoo, Thursday, 9 August 2012 21:51 (five years ago) Permalink

The broader idea is that the album was undeniably successful - some prove it by huuuge numbers, others by multiple hits.

^^^ okay - - - I buy this.

Doctor Casino, Thursday, 9 August 2012 21:56 (five years ago) Permalink

Celine Dion, Let's Talk About Love is totally a New Jersey. (x-post)

― LeRooLeRoo, Thursday, August 9, 2012 5:51 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark

the funny thing about the 33 1/3 book is that after he basically admits that it's "about" that album merely because of the Titanic song he starts to realize, that isn't even her really big album aside from that song

some dude, Thursday, 9 August 2012 21:59 (five years ago) Permalink

lol it's definitely going in, then.

will admit that I think albums with multiple hit singles are more apt to win Best New Jersey - it's a more impressive feat, suggests more active fans of your filler

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 22:01 (five years ago) Permalink

so i think i'm gonna add four of the five i brought up - whitney gets a save because it seems like are pretty happy with that album, a genuine triumph rather than riding on fumes.

Garth Brooks, Sevens (10x platinum)
Celine Dion, Let's Talk About Love (10x platinum)
Backstreet Boys, Black & Blue (8x platinum)
Bon Jovi, New Jersey (7x platinum)
Eagles, The Long Run (7x platinum)
Guns'n'Roses, Use Your Illusion I & II (7x platinum each)
Limp Bizkit, Chocolate Starfish & The Hot Dog Flavored Water (6x platinum)
Journey, Frontiers (6x platinum)
ZZ Top, Afterburner (5x platinum)
50 Cent, The Massacre (5x platinum)
U2, Rattle & Hum (5x platinum)
Billy Joel, River Of Dreams (5x platinum)
Bob Seger, Against The Wind (5x platinum)
R.E.M., Monster (4x platinum)
Eminem, Encore (4x platinum)
Bone Thugs-n-Harmony, The Art Of War (4x platinum)
Boston, Third Stage (4x platinum)
Genesis, We Can't Dance (4x platinum)
AC/DC, For Those About To Rock We Salute You (4x platinum)
Lionel Richie, Dancing On The Ceiling (4x platinum)
Spice Girls, Spiceworld (4x platinum)
U2, How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb (3x platinum)
Paula Abdul, Spellbound (3x platinum)
Def Leppard, Adrenalize (3x platinum)
Mariah Carey, Heartbreaker (3x platinum)
Huey Lewis, Fore! (3x platinum)
Foreigner, Agent Provocateur (3x platinum)
Rod Stewart, Blondes Have More Fun (3x platinum)
New Kids On The Block, Step By Step (3x platinum)

that's 29 - would like to make it a solid 30 before posting a poll tomorrow.

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 22:12 (five years ago) Permalink

ha if we can't think of anything i'll add Jewel

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 22:13 (five years ago) Permalink

will seriously go back through the thread and my collection in a little bit, take another stab

Doctor Casino, Thursday, 9 August 2012 22:18 (five years ago) Permalink

the trick is to listen to them

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 9 August 2012 22:19 (five years ago) Permalink

Still think one of the INXS albums mentioned should be in there - but I think X rather than Welcome To Wherever You Are.

Tim F, Thursday, 9 August 2012 22:27 (five years ago) Permalink

you guys

Creed, Weathered
6x platinum

two top 10 hits

preceded by 11x platinum Human Clay
followed by gold-at-best side projects

they just recently did concerts playing the two albums before this in entirety back-to-back
no weathered tour announced

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 22:27 (five years ago) Permalink

INXS went straight to single platinum after Kick

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 22:28 (five years ago) Permalink

i only held my tongue on Creed cause of the breakup and lowered expectations reunion that followed

some dude, Thursday, 9 August 2012 22:33 (five years ago) Permalink

btw Nickelback's Dark Horse cleared 3 mil, should be on the master list imo

some dude, Thursday, 9 August 2012 22:34 (five years ago) Permalink

yeah i can see that - looks like they hammered what they could into the top 40 over a long-ass time with far less success than the previous album, and the follow-up couldn't get anything in there. will add, guess we're at 31.

da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 22:45 (five years ago) Permalink

Despite the remarkable (esp. in the '00s) success of "All the Right Reasons," the follow-up never felt like an "event album" to me. Then again, Nickelback albums never seem to debut to a lot of fanfare; the aforementioned album was almost a sleeper smash, a record that sold in the mega-millions over two or three years because it spun off a fuckload of radio readymades over a long period of time and not because it struck a nerve at any one point. Which I guess speaks well of mass taste. But Mutt Lange made them almost listenable and who gave a shit then?

mobs of burly teen christgaus (thewufs), Friday, 10 August 2012 02:06 (five years ago) Permalink

i'm a little wary of people putting too much import into something "event album" - we're all deep enough into our niches that it's rather personal a perspective. We're all seasoned music fans here so it's real easy for us to not think an album is a big deal. But any album that sold north of 3x platinum and/or had a bunch of pop hits was pretty clearly an event to some degree, to some mainstream niche.

da croupier, Friday, 10 August 2012 04:23 (five years ago) Permalink

yeah i think to an extent it's enough that the industry treated an album like an event whether or not the public really perceived it that way

some dude, Friday, 10 August 2012 04:26 (five years ago) Permalink

everything here is an album a lot of people bought from an artist who'd already enjoyed massive success - that's event plenty.

da croupier, Friday, 10 August 2012 04:27 (five years ago) Permalink

mc hammer and vanilla ice seemed to be dismissed upthread as one-album wonders who by definition can't have a new jersey moment but if spiceworld makes the final cut, then why not too legit to quit?

fact checking cuz, Friday, 10 August 2012 04:39 (five years ago) Permalink

i think m@tt made a good point that VIce doesn't really count but Hammer prob does

some dude, Friday, 10 August 2012 04:40 (five years ago) Permalink

lol i remember the word hammer coming up but it wasn't until you wrote Too Legit To Quit out - first time it's been mentioned by name - that I actually remembered that album and not just please hammmer don't hurt 'em. soooo included, really glad it came up specifically now. Thank you!

da croupier, Friday, 10 August 2012 04:43 (five years ago) Permalink

ha ha, welcome!

fact checking cuz, Friday, 10 August 2012 04:44 (five years ago) Permalink

If Third Stage was Boston's New Jersey, are you saying that Don't Look Back was their Slippery When Wet? Clearly, the first s/t album was their SWW, right?

EveningStar (Sund4r), Friday, 10 August 2012 04:52 (five years ago) Permalink

(why I nominated Don't Look Back originally)

EveningStar (Sund4r), Friday, 10 August 2012 04:52 (five years ago) Permalink

though someone should definitely do a poll of the prince albums that have hit double platinum (1999 and purple rain are the only to go further)

"Around the World in a Day" (1985), 2-times Platinum
"Diamonds and Pearls" (1991), 2-times Platinum
"Emancipation" (1996), 2-times Platinum
"Batman (soundtrack)" (1989), 2-times Platinum
"Musicology" (2004), 2-times Platinum

― da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 16:38 (Yesterday) Permalink

notable one of those is a 3CD and another was given away with concert tickets

― da croupier, Thursday, 9 August 2012 16:39 (Yesterday) Permalink

and Batman was helped by the movie and Around the World by Purple Rain.

Diamonds as the only one to get there under its own steam?

― mr.raffles, Thursday, 9 August 2012 16:41 (Yesterday)

Didn't the "Cream" single get a major bump when Billboard switched to Soundscan sales figures while it was climbing the Hot 100 chart? I seem to remember hearing that the song wouldn't have reached #1 under Billboard's old sales reporting system.

Hideous Lump, Friday, 10 August 2012 04:53 (five years ago) Permalink

(But I mean I wasn't there: maybe the hype was really intense for Third Stage as an event album.)

EveningStar (Sund4r), Friday, 10 August 2012 05:03 (five years ago) Permalink

The too legit to quit video was a huge event

Jandek at the Disco (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 10 August 2012 05:05 (five years ago) Permalink

If Third Stage was Boston's New Jersey, are you saying that Don't Look Back was their Slippery When Wet? Clearly, the first s/t album was their SWW, right?

it's more about the end of a run than that they literally only had two big hit albums.

Since some of the stuff appears to gets a little close to fairweather johnson territory, I'll note that only three albums are actual sophomore albums, and all had 3 or more top 20 hits on then. The rest all had at least two platinum records to their credit before their "new jersey."

da croupier, Friday, 10 August 2012 05:06 (five years ago) Permalink

3 or more top 20 hits on them, i mean.

da croupier, Friday, 10 August 2012 05:07 (five years ago) Permalink

so basically none of the 33 or so albums listed were an immediate flop follow-up to a flash in the pan

da croupier, Friday, 10 August 2012 05:09 (five years ago) Permalink

I move that third stage be replaced with don't look back

Jandek at the Disco (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 10 August 2012 05:10 (five years ago) Permalink

(Seconded)

EveningStar (Sund4r), Friday, 10 August 2012 05:12 (five years ago) Permalink

weird to think BJ (lol) had 2 pre-Slippery albums, but of course "Runaway" is a classic.

Euler, Friday, 10 August 2012 05:12 (five years ago) Permalink

will just repost the logic for third stage

(4x platinum #1 album with two top ten hits including one #1, despite coming eight years after the last album. However, in 1987, Boston had gone 9x platinum, Don't Look Back 4x platinum and Third Stage 4x time platinum. Today, Boston is at 17x platinum, and Don't Look Back is at 7x platinum. Third Stage remains at four, and the follow-up, Walk On only went Platinum).

da croupier, Friday, 10 August 2012 05:12 (five years ago) Permalink

saying Don't look back is a new jersey kind of ignores that they not only failed to have a career decline but were actually able to just show up and say HAY eight years later and have a #1.

da croupier, Friday, 10 August 2012 05:14 (five years ago) Permalink

Has anyone ever heard 7800 Fahrenheit?

EveningStar (Sund4r), Friday, 10 August 2012 05:18 (five years ago) Permalink

no. the guy who mixed it did it with the monitors off

we know about this ---˃ (electricsound), Friday, 10 August 2012 05:20 (five years ago) Permalink

Speaking of Boston, does anyone have access to back issues of Musician Magazine? (I'm pretty sure it was Musician. Maybe Trouser Press, but I doubt it.) Their vicious review of Don't Look Back was one of my favorite.

Hideous Lump, Friday, 10 August 2012 05:21 (five years ago) Permalink

i did see this awesome, awesome video from it on a Bon Jovi video retrospective my library supervisor taped off MTV (along with Bowie's Glass Spider special!) that I discovered when housesitting for her in the early '00s.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5U6Y4xSa0HY

da croupier, Friday, 10 August 2012 05:22 (five years ago) Permalink

Yeah, I know that one single from it but that's all I've ever heard.

I see your logic with Third Stage. Don't Look Back does feel pretty hollow to me except for the title track, though, more so than NJ, in fact. (Quick: name another song from it.)

EveningStar (Sund4r), Friday, 10 August 2012 05:24 (five years ago) Permalink

well i only know "more than a feeling" by name anyway, but it's probably more surprising i don't know any of the 3 pop hits off Third Stage than that I don't know any of the 70s radio stuff off DLB.

da croupier, Friday, 10 August 2012 05:28 (five years ago) Permalink

well i only know "more than a feeling" by name anyway

Either this is a typo or you're not the man I thought you were!

EveningStar (Sund4r), Friday, 10 August 2012 05:29 (five years ago) Permalink

actually able to just show up and say HAY eight years later and have a #1.

Yeah, I'm not sure that Third Stage was that big of an event either and that the success of "Amanda" and the album wasn't due to its own breakthrough.

timellison, Friday, 10 August 2012 05:30 (five years ago) Permalink

well yeah i could probably hear a song, notice the repeated phrase and say "I'm guessing this is Boston because they have a song called Don't Look Back and this sounds like Boston saying 'Don't Look Back' a lot" but yeah I've never really dug into their work.

da croupier, Friday, 10 August 2012 05:31 (five years ago) Permalink

and further discussion of which multiplatinum w/ hits album from an established act was or wasn't an "event" will be met with "your mom's an event"

da croupier, Friday, 10 August 2012 05:34 (five years ago) Permalink

I could understand not knowing "Don't Look Back" but "More Than a Feeling" has to be one of the most-played songs on American rock radio. I don't believe that you only know it by name.

EveningStar (Sund4r), Friday, 10 August 2012 05:35 (five years ago) Permalink

haha woops that IS a typo sorry. it's late!

da croupier, Friday, 10 August 2012 05:36 (five years ago) Permalink

Phew.

EveningStar (Sund4r), Friday, 10 August 2012 05:36 (five years ago) Permalink

It's like the first thing identified as what's being discussed in the thread title. And it seemingly refers to albums that were "events" upon release as opposed to defining event as some long term thing when something becomes popular over time.

timellison, Friday, 10 August 2012 05:38 (five years ago) Permalink

my point is that rather than have people say "gee that album didn't feel like a big deal to me," we're going to accept that a multiplatinum album with hits from an established artist was clearly an event to a good number of people.

da croupier, Friday, 10 August 2012 05:40 (five years ago) Permalink

besides, the lesser of the 33 albums will likely have goose eggs beneath the TRUE NEW JERSEYS when the poll is done

da croupier, Friday, 10 August 2012 05:44 (five years ago) Permalink

I think it's possible to argue that eight years away WAS a significant type of career decline even if they had a surprising comeback eight years later.

timellison, Friday, 10 August 2012 05:47 (five years ago) Permalink

please tell me you just really want to vote for Don't Look Back being the Best New Jersey

da croupier, Friday, 10 August 2012 05:51 (five years ago) Permalink

No, it took a long time for them to do Don't Look Back and then I know they had legal troubles and that was part of why they didn't put out another record for a long time, but I don't know if it was the whole reason. Point being that Don't Look Back does feel like the album that signaled something significant with their career arc and not Third Stage.

timellison, Friday, 10 August 2012 05:54 (five years ago) Permalink

alright i'm changing it to don't look back because i'm already being enough of a bossypants and i don't want people biting their pillows tonight but i'm going to be bummed if you hosers ignore it come voting time.

da croupier, Friday, 10 August 2012 05:56 (five years ago) Permalink

the current list o' 32, fair and true - will give it a night to see if someone has a brainflash or feels strongly that Butterfly is Mariah's New Jersey not Rainbow and then post the poll in the morning.

Garth Brooks, Sevens (10x platinum)
Celine Dion, Let's Talk About Love (10x platinum)
Backstreet Boys, Black & Blue (8x platinum)
Bon Jovi, New Jersey (7x platinum)
Eagles, The Long Run (7x platinum)
Boston, Don't Look Back (7x platinum)
Guns'n'Roses, Use Your Illusion I & II (7x platinum each)
Creed, Weathered (6x platinum)
Limp Bizkit, Chocolate Starfish & The Hot Dog Flavored Water (6x platinum)
Journey, Frontiers (6x platinum)
ZZ Top, Afterburner (5x platinum)
50 Cent, The Massacre (5x platinum)
U2, Rattle & Hum (5x platinum)
Billy Joel, River Of Dreams (5x platinum)
Bob Seger, Against The Wind (5x platinum)
R.E.M., Monster (4x platinum)
Eminem, Encore (4x platinum)
Bone Thugs-n-Harmony, The Art Of War (4x platinum)
Genesis, We Can't Dance (4x platinum)
AC/DC, For Those About To Rock We Salute You (4x platinum)
Lionel Richie, Dancing On The Ceiling (4x platinum)
Spice Girls, Spiceworld (4x platinum)
U2, How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb (3x platinum)
Paula Abdul, Spellbound (3x platinum)
Def Leppard, Adrenalize (3x platinum)
Mariah Carey, Heartbreaker (3x platinum)
Huey Lewis, Fore! (3x platinum)
Foreigner, Agent Provocateur (3x platinum)
Rod Stewart, Blondes Have More Fun (3x platinum)
Hammer, Too Legit To Quit (3x platinum)
New Kids On The Block, Step By Step (3x platinum)
Nickelback, Dark Horse (3x platinum)

da croupier, Friday, 10 August 2012 06:10 (five years ago) Permalink

Wait, so did Dangerous not make it? I feel like it hits all the checkpoints here - ditto For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge.

Would also like to suggest Phil Collins's ...But Seriously, an 8x platinum followup to the 12x platinum No Jacket Required, featuring several moderate singles which haven't ever displaced the NJR hits in his canon and which have largely disappeared. (Unfortunate - "Something Happened On The Way To Heaven" is my favorite Collins solo joint!) Next album: down to single platinum, no big hits. The one after that (a late-coming attempt at a world-music crossover) merely made gold.

Pretty sure if the poll is for the "most New Jersey," Use Your Illusion is more NJ than NJ itself. But "best," now that's tricky. I guess I'm gonna have to start queuing all these records up in Spotify...

Doctor Casino, Friday, 10 August 2012 06:55 (five years ago) Permalink

Third Stage probably didn't feel like an "event" because there were no videos for it--or at least none that MTV put on rotation. You probably had to be a FM Rock fan for it to feel eventful.

Listen to this, dad (President Keyes), Friday, 10 August 2012 10:39 (five years ago) Permalink

Third Stage was the first album I thought of here. Big "event" because of the 8-year wait, because "Amanda" had just topped the charts, because i remember how disappointed my Boston-t-shirt-wearing friend was when the full album was first played on the radio. And....

- brings with it the feeling that the NEXT record (if there is one) will see the bottom fall out (relatively speaking)
- brings with it the feeling that the NEXT record (if there is one) will see the bottom fall out (relatively speaking)
- brings with it the feeling that the NEXT record (if there is one) will see the bottom fall out (relatively speaking)
- brings with it the feeling that the NEXT record (if there is one) will see the bottom fall out (relatively speaking)
- brings with it the feeling that the NEXT record (if there is one) will see the bottom fall out (relatively speaking)

Lee626, Friday, 10 August 2012 11:04 (five years ago) Permalink

Wait, so did Dangerous not make it? I feel like it hits all the checkpoints here - ditto For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge.

Michael Jackson, like the Stones, has been saved by the "every album is an event" clause. You could say his decline was bad, dangerous, the second disc of History - it's all subjective as to when it was "a bit hollow" because all weren't thriller and all were events.

I don't think For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge works because the ones before and after basically sold as well, and they kept having mainstream rock #1s throughout. And if you want to play the "hollow" game, you could do it for any album once Hagar joins. And I'm sure everyone has their delightful opinion about when Van Hagar stopped being an "event."

Would also like to suggest Phil Collins's ...But Seriously, an 8x platinum followup to the 12x platinum No Jacket Required, featuring several moderate singles which haven't ever displaced the NJR hits in his canon and which have largely disappeared. (Unfortunate - "Something Happened On The Way To Heaven" is my favorite Collins solo joint!) Next album: down to single platinum, no big hits. The one after that (a late-coming attempt at a world-music crossover) merely made gold.

I dunno if you missed it, but Genesis' I Can't Dance has been on the list as the Phil pick for two days. Bottom dropped out after that, not But Seriously.

- brings with it the feeling that the NEXT record (if there is one) will see the bottom fall out (relatively speaking)

That's the thing - I'm worried

da croupier, Friday, 10 August 2012 12:17 (five years ago) Permalink

sorry, cut off.

I'm worried this is just becoming "the album after the biggest hit".

da croupier, Friday, 10 August 2012 12:20 (five years ago) Permalink

the one argument i will say in Dangerous's favor is that its sales were nearly equal to Bad in the US but then there was a pretty big drop to HIStory. but i can understand not including it.

Pollopolicía (some dude), Friday, 10 August 2012 12:22 (five years ago) Permalink

i remember seeing, like, an MTV News segment about stores full of racks of unsold copies of HIStory due to demand being much lower than anticipated

Pollopolicía (some dude), Friday, 10 August 2012 12:24 (five years ago) Permalink

Doctor, would you really consider BS' singles success as modest? Only "Hang in Long Enough" didn't make the top five.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 10 August 2012 12:38 (five years ago) Permalink

ok made some adjustments

Garth Brooks, Sevens (10x platinum)
Celine Dion, Let's Talk About Love (10x platinum)
Backstreet Boys, Black & Blue (8x platinum)
Bon Jovi, New Jersey (7x platinum)
Eagles, The Long Run (7x platinum)
Boston, Don't Look Back (7x platinum)
Michael Jackson, Dangerous (7x platinum)
Guns'n'Roses, Use Your Illusion I & II (7x platinum each)
Creed, Weathered (6x platinum)
Limp Bizkit, Chocolate Starfish & The Hot Dog Flavored Water (6x platinum)
Journey, Frontiers (6x platinum)
ZZ Top, Afterburner (5x platinum)
50 Cent, The Massacre (5x platinum)
U2, Rattle & Hum (5x platinum)
Billy Joel, River Of Dreams (5x platinum)
Bob Seger, Against The Wind (5x platinum)
Mariah Carey, Butterfly (5x platinum)
R.E.M., Monster (4x platinum)
Eminem, Encore (4x platinum)
Phil Collins, ...But Seriously (4x platinum)
Bone Thugs-n-Harmony, The Art Of War (4x platinum)
AC/DC, For Those About To Rock We Salute You (4x platinum)
Lionel Richie, Dancing On The Ceiling (4x platinum)
Spice Girls, Spiceworld (4x platinum)
U2, How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb (3x platinum)
Paula Abdul, Spellbound (3x platinum)
Def Leppard, Adrenalize (3x platinum)
Huey Lewis, Fore! (3x platinum)
Foreigner, Agent Provocateur (3x platinum)
Rod Stewart, Blondes Have More Fun (3x platinum)
Hammer, Too Legit To Quit (3x platinum)
New Kids On The Block, Step By Step (3x platinum)
Nickelback, Dark Horse (3x platinum)

Added Dangerous, and accepting But Seriously because the singles were huge but do have nothing on Invisible Touch and No Jacket Required, yes they still had We Can't Dance but they were now a huge adult contemporary band instead of THE pop act. still sticking with Encore for Eminem and I need some hard fucking evidence to put a Van Hagar album on here - 5150 is the one after the biggest hit, but commercially it signaled no decline. OU812 is the last one with a pop top ten, but FUCK had "Right Now", and they danced across the top spot of the Mainstream Rock Charts straight through to Cherone. Speak up if you have some concrete information, no more just mumbling about "events."

da croupier, Friday, 10 August 2012 12:43 (five years ago) Permalink

yeah, it doesn't feel like most of them have had the staying power of his earlier hits, aside from "Another Day In Paradise"

Pollopolicía (some dude), Friday, 10 August 2012 12:44 (five years ago) Permalink

Tempted to put Van Hagar, like the Macca, into a clause where "buyers remorse" covers their whole fucking existence and they just kind of tapered off into slightly thinner oatmeal

da croupier, Friday, 10 August 2012 12:46 (five years ago) Permalink

lol yes

Pollopolicía (some dude), Friday, 10 August 2012 12:47 (five years ago) Permalink

also switched Rainbow for Butterfly - the previous album Daydream had "Fantasy," "One Sweet Day" and "Always Be My Baby", Butterfly had "Honey," "Butterfly" and "My All." Big hits but they definitely feel like New Jersey's to the previous titans (remember the "Honey" video with Mariah escaping Tommy Vitola and giving Ma$e a lap dance?). Admittedly the following album, Rainbow, had two #1s but the bloom was pretty clearly off the rose, and in hindsight, I think Butterfly is the "signal" album

da croupier, Friday, 10 August 2012 12:55 (five years ago) Permalink

lol Tommy Mottola

da croupier, Friday, 10 August 2012 12:56 (five years ago) Permalink

"Butterfly" is the one of the worst fucking songs in the world; I think that's the point where I stopped anticipating new Mariah singles, hoping they would be great, and starting dreading new Mariah singles, expecting them to be terrible

although that could have also happened at "One Sweet Day", now that I think about it

keeping things contextual (DJP), Friday, 10 August 2012 13:35 (five years ago) Permalink

Bon Jovi, New Jersey (7x platinum)

^^^ starting to think maybe this should be on here, after all it spawned two hot 100 #1s and the followup album hit #1 on the finnish charts!

Doctor Casino, Friday, 10 August 2012 14:07 (five years ago) Permalink

er, should not be on here

Doctor Casino, Friday, 10 August 2012 14:08 (five years ago) Permalink

dammit spoiled my own cutting satire

Doctor Casino, Friday, 10 August 2012 14:08 (five years ago) Permalink

it's not all sales or charts or singles guys....a "New Jersey" is a *feeling* too

― Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, August 7, 2012 3:35 PM Bookmark

really want to push this angle... because I really agree with da croupier that this shouldn't just be "the biggest album after the biggest hit"...but that's why I think two parts of the definition which are subjective are really crucial - - - the "event" label (which I agree should be broad) which for me largely stands in for "this thing actually was seen as successful, not just having big sales in the first week on momentum and then tapering off" - - - and the whole "ultimately feels hollow" which can be unpacked in a variety of ways but might include (a) the later shelf life of its onetime hits (b) buyer's remorse/wider shift in the zeitgeist's evaluation of the album (c) related, shift in the artist's narrative that now sees them as on the decline and therefore looks for "where it all started to go wrong"...

So basically this is just me lobbying for Dangerous and But Seriously which already made the list anyway. Convinced the list is somehow incomplete without Van Hagar, even if one says their entire career is a NJ perhaps there is still an album which signals the shift towards people realizing it's a
NJ...and perhaps that album itself is a NJ...makes u think....

Doctor Casino, Friday, 10 August 2012 14:14 (five years ago) Permalink

Fatboy Slim - Halfway Between the Gutter and the Stars is another one, maybe FBS was never really "huge" per se but that was the "wait, why did we make such a big deal out of this guy" momen

agree! for some reason late 90s electronica feels especially prone to new jerseyism to me. i will add

basement jaxx - kish kash
daft punk - human after all (even though this came out wayyy after discovery, their popularity was insane at that pt as i remember it!)
chemical brothers - come with us(???)
moby - 18 (but maybe there was too much of a break after play and the momentum had died already?)

for debate

i dont think air has a new jersey because they just stopped being all that popular when 10.000hz came out. at least that's how it feels, i don't know any of the figures

no fear, Friday, 10 August 2012 14:16 (five years ago) Permalink

ok between the glow sticks coming out dr. casino falling down the van hagar wormhole (sticking to my Wings clause, sorry - "when did you realize van hagar sucks" probably deserves its own thread), I'm moving this shit to poll time.

BEST/MOST "BON JOVI'S NEW JERSEY" ALBUM EVER

da croupier, Friday, 10 August 2012 14:22 (five years ago) Permalink

xpost Most of those didn't sell anywhere near the numbers of the albums currently populating the list, though.

Doctor Casino, Friday, 10 August 2012 14:23 (five years ago) Permalink

awwwwwright then!

Doctor Casino, Friday, 10 August 2012 14:23 (five years ago) Permalink

But Seriously being on here seems kinda wrong to me but I think that might be UK vs US perspective.

Colonel Poo, Friday, 10 August 2012 14:26 (five years ago) Permalink

oh yeah THIS IS ENTIRELY BASED ON US SALES. Plus every damn album has paragraphs about its selection on the other thread.

da croupier, Friday, 10 August 2012 14:28 (five years ago) Permalink

lol wait sorry i'm getting my threads confused - thought this was the poll one. sorry!

da croupier, Friday, 10 August 2012 14:28 (five years ago) Permalink

xp yeah i guess they fail in the popularity stakes for general pop, but they were massive 'within' genre

no fear, Friday, 10 August 2012 14:29 (five years ago) Permalink

Yeah, sorry, I get that it's a US-centric thread, I wasn't saying it shouldn't be on the list, just I'd be more in the Genesis I Can't Dance camp on that one.

Colonel Poo, Friday, 10 August 2012 14:32 (five years ago) Permalink

this all happened while i was asleep in america but dude, it is Third Stage, not Don't Look Back.

1. "Don't Look Back" and "Feelin' Satisfied" remain songs that you think about when you think about Boston, "Amanda" and "Cool The Engines" do not.
2. I was there and yes, it was a big deal that Boston, who people thought were through, came back with another album. It was a "make sure to buy it the day it comes out" kind of record for 70s rock types.
3. I wasn't there for Don't Look Back but I do NOT think it presaged anything about Boston's commercial and artistic decline. I think it basically sounds like the s/t. Whereas Third Stage comes out in this very different sonic environment, and you buy it, and you bring it home, and at first you're like "I don't believe it, after all these years, new Boston songs, and they sound just like what I want them to sound like" but then 5 mins later you're like "you know what, somehow I'm not as into this sound as I used to be" and you feel a sort of emptiness and a visceral sense of the world fading away behind you even though you are only 15 and THAT IS WHY IT IS THIRD STAGE

Guayaquil (eephus!), Friday, 10 August 2012 14:33 (five years ago) Permalink

yeah i regret replacing third stage. ah well, may the ghost of brad delp forgive me.

da croupier, Friday, 10 August 2012 14:36 (five years ago) Permalink

FUCK had "Right Now", and they danced across the top spot of the Mainstream Rock Charts straight through to Cherone.

Perhaps switch out F.U.C.K. with Balance? That is if anyone remembers that shit-fest...

Elvis Telecom, Friday, 10 August 2012 21:31 (five years ago) Permalink

I think it basically sounds like the s/t

It basically sounds like the s/t but ... it's less memorable except for the big hit, which has nowhere near the presence of the bigger hits from the debut. (Da croup doesn't even know it and he's a pretty serious rock listener!) 6 songs from the debut still get significant airplay. Not the case with Don't Look Back.

I mean, "I'll Be There for You" is still a song people think about when they think of Bon Jovi, even people who hate them.

EveningStar (Sund4r), Friday, 10 August 2012 21:43 (five years ago) Permalink

I own the album and I can't remember "Feeling Satisfied" btw.

EveningStar (Sund4r), Friday, 10 August 2012 21:44 (five years ago) Permalink

COME ON LET ME GIVE YOUR MIND A RIDE

Guayaquil (eephus!), Friday, 10 August 2012 22:01 (five years ago) Permalink

Fwiw: http://itunes.apple.com/us/artist/boston/id60960

Three songs from the debut AND "AMANDA" place higher than "Don't Look Back", then three more songs from the debut appear before "Feelin' Satisfied". Admittedly, the album version and GH version of "Don't Look Back" are counted separately, which might make a difference.

EveningStar (Sund4r), Friday, 10 August 2012 22:15 (five years ago) Permalink

I forgot that the real follow up to New Jersey was the JBJ solo Young Guns II soundtrack with monster hit "Blaze of Glory." That was his "Lose Yourself" I guess.

Listen to this, dad (President Keyes), Friday, 10 August 2012 22:18 (five years ago) Permalink

admittedly i forgot about it, but whether the follow-up was the 2x platinum Keep The Faith or the 2x platinum concept album about an emilio estevez movie, the narrative works well enough

da croupier, Friday, 10 August 2012 22:29 (five years ago) Permalink

It's too late now, guys, but what about Gloria Estefan's Cuts Both Ways? A massive hit (3x platinum) that consolidated her gains (a #1 single, another top ten, and the #11 "Get On Your Feet") but a couple of others that grazed the top fifty. The followup managed a #1 because of public sympathy for her accident but only one other top thirty ("Live For Loving You").

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 11 August 2012 01:43 (five years ago) Permalink

*as a result of her accident

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 11 August 2012 01:43 (five years ago) Permalink

Haven't contributed anything to this thread, but, sparked by another thread, an obvious one just occurred to me: the Ramones' End of the Century. It got the lead review in Rolling Stone (something that possibly happened with Rocket to Russia, but I doubt it), it was their highest-charting album, it was a big story because of Spector's involvement, and--though not a bad record--it was nowhere near as good as the previous four, and they would never again return to where they were before the album came out. They would go on to have well reviewed albums again, most noticeably Too Tough to Die, but by then they were playing catch-up.

clemenza, Saturday, 11 August 2012 02:36 (five years ago) Permalink

It wasn't a multiplatinum event album though...

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 11 August 2012 02:43 (five years ago) Permalink

Yeah, ''End of the Century''s could almost be a category in themselves - albums where, after years of patient hard work, a band finally gets their big break...right as their creative powers flag, or they take on a new direction/sound, anyway it's just straight not as good as everything that came before. The big break doesn't pay off and they're hobbled forever.

Obviously hard to detach this from, you know, their new big label making them change their sound and so on, but...

Doctor Casino, Saturday, 11 August 2012 02:48 (five years ago) Permalink

Okay..."multiplatinum" isn't in the thread title, and believe me, it did qualify as something of an event at the time (hence the lead RS} review), but I'm jumping in after 1,000 posts, so I'm sure I would have picked up on that had I been closely following.

clemenza, Saturday, 11 August 2012 02:49 (five years ago) Permalink

Yeah, now that the poll is out there I feel we can be less rigid here about nj equivalents that didn't chart/sell as well, and ones by cult acts

Listen to this, dad (President Keyes), Saturday, 11 August 2012 02:52 (five years ago) Permalink

Why were we being rigid about it in the first place?

timellison, Saturday, 11 August 2012 02:54 (five years ago) Permalink

We had to honor the jovi

Listen to this, dad (President Keyes), Saturday, 11 August 2012 02:56 (five years ago) Permalink

Belle and Sebastian, THE LIFE PURSUIT

Guayaquil (eephus!), Saturday, 11 August 2012 03:05 (five years ago) Permalink

Now that it's safe to do cult artists again- how about Morrissey? He must have had at least one "New Jersey".

o. nate, Saturday, 11 August 2012 03:15 (five years ago) Permalink

for cult New Jerseys, you can just look at the last in a stretch of pazz'n'jop placements, rather than the last in a stretch of multi-platinum

da croupier, Saturday, 11 August 2012 03:20 (five years ago) Permalink

shame cmj doesn't have a working archive

da croupier, Saturday, 11 August 2012 03:22 (five years ago) Permalink

haha, life pursuit is like the only belle and sebastian album i listen to, maybe i should give new jersey another chance

Doctor Casino, Saturday, 11 August 2012 03:42 (five years ago) Permalink

Bush's Razorblade Suitcase

slagterm, Saturday, 11 August 2012 03:59 (five years ago) Permalink

Lol, yeah, I still don't think making an analogy to the relative legacies of Bon Jovi albums works so great for cult artists.

EveningStar (Sund4r), Saturday, 11 August 2012 04:21 (five years ago) Permalink

"Man, at the 80s prom in my heart, 'Lycanthrope' was totally Thinking Plague's 'Livin' on a Prayer' and 'Love' was their 'Never Say Goodbye'. So disappointing to see them slip into New Jersey territory with In Extremis. I don't see anyone transcribing 'This Weird Wind' 14 years later, eh?"

EveningStar (Sund4r), Saturday, 11 August 2012 04:24 (five years ago) Permalink

Don't know if it's at 3x platinum, but if so, Counting Crows' "Recovering the Satellites" seems to fit the NJ bill. I just looked at the singles, and besides A Long December (a song I actually like), the others I couldn't hum even if you threatened to make me hang out with Adam Duritz for a week.

alpine static, Saturday, 11 August 2012 07:41 (five years ago) Permalink

Wow, that was a lot of activity in a couple days. Was The Cult's Sonic Temple a huge event album?

Fastnbulbous, Saturday, 11 August 2012 11:36 (five years ago) Permalink

That's going to be weird because I could see long time fans thinking of it as a new jersey but for alot of us kids it was the first time they'd heard them as is probably their biggest seller

Jandek at the Disco (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, 11 August 2012 12:49 (five years ago) Permalink

Whether kid or long-time fan I think we can all agree that it's the ultimate in 'you are beyond irony' album covers:

http://www.simplysyndicated.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/sonictemple.jpg

http://www.minilps.net/images/stories/shop_image/product/SONICTEMPBAC.jpg

Ned Raggett, Saturday, 11 August 2012 12:53 (five years ago) Permalink

Haven't listened to this in about 20 years. "Edie (Ciao Baby)" still holds up.

EveningStar (Sund4r), Saturday, 11 August 2012 13:39 (five years ago) Permalink

I'm really trying to puzzle out what the Cult's Slippery When Wet would be if this was their New Jersey btw.

EveningStar (Sund4r), Saturday, 11 August 2012 13:41 (five years ago) Permalink

Whoa, the Tea Party's "Kashmir" rips actually sound more like "Soul Asylum" (the "Kashmir" rip on Sonic Temple, not the band) than "Kashmir" itself.

EveningStar (Sund4r), Saturday, 11 August 2012 13:48 (five years ago) Permalink

Coming straight to this thread from a politics thread, I went "Tea Party".... Kashmir riffs...? and was already constructing a world where this was about some link i didn't see to like, a Conservapedia project to create Tea Party friendly covers of classic rock tunes.

Doctor Casino, Saturday, 11 August 2012 13:57 (five years ago) Permalink

lol

EveningStar (Sund4r), Saturday, 11 August 2012 14:06 (five years ago) Permalink

I'm sure it exists.

Ned Raggett, Saturday, 11 August 2012 14:50 (five years ago) Permalink

Unliberal (Kidz) Bop

Doctor Casino, Saturday, 11 August 2012 15:00 (five years ago) Permalink

The Cult's is Electric, surely? Love was the big crossover that drew them to public attention, and that's the big-selling follow-up - although it would be easy to assert (as I have before) that pretty much every record gets worse since the outset and Love is the start of the plummet into mediocrity.

passive-aggressive display name (aldo), Saturday, 11 August 2012 20:04 (five years ago) Permalink

Yeah, I'm just very unconvinced by the idea that Electric is the album that everyone still loves whereas Sonic Temple is the album that everyone bought but can't remember why.

EveningStar (Sund4r), Saturday, 11 August 2012 20:21 (five years ago) Permalink

Pretty sure "Love Removal Machine" is the only song I ever hear from Electric. (Mostly just hear "Firewoman" from Sonic Temple, "Edie" once in a blue moon.)

EveningStar (Sund4r), Saturday, 11 August 2012 20:25 (five years ago) Permalink

adrenalize was probably the most disappointing album of my youth, it's like the ghostbusters 2 of pop metal.

― omar little, Friday, August 3, 2012 1:19 PM (1 week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

omar little, Saturday, 11 August 2012 20:48 (five years ago) Permalink

Every huge artist has their "Ghostbusters 2" - a huge event followup that immediately feels a lot hollow & signals a river of pink slime

Doctor Casino, Saturday, 11 August 2012 20:51 (five years ago) Permalink

Speakerboxx/love below

protected by viper. stand back. (D-40), Saturday, 11 August 2012 22:27 (five years ago) Permalink

while personally i shake my fist at the idea either album is hollow and almost wonder if it's becoming underrated (still prefer it to stankonia on the whole), i'll admit for a dense double album it wound up low on hits and def signaled that "outkast" had peaked.

da croupier, Saturday, 11 August 2012 23:07 (five years ago) Permalink

I was looking through the CDs at the public library today, and nearly every one we mentioned here was there. Almost checked out "Storm Front"

Listen to this, dad (President Keyes), Saturday, 11 August 2012 23:10 (five years ago) Permalink

Sb/lb should have totally been on the list! D40 otm....oops

Jandek at the Disco (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, 11 August 2012 23:17 (five years ago) Permalink

SB/LB is mainly just weird because it was a double album that "felt" like a single album IMO - - - two HUGE hits and one moderate one, that is not bad performance at all in the grand scheme of things. Plus the single would be less intimidating to casual fans; I think it'd be really really highly regarded if it'd been carved down.

The group was maybe also pretty overexposed at that point, having followed Stankonia's success up with the hits compilation and "The Whole World" - they sort of hadn't been off the radio at any point since "Rosa Parks," y'know?

Doctor Casino, Saturday, 11 August 2012 23:33 (five years ago) Permalink

tbf that's pretty fucking New Jersey

da croupier, Saturday, 11 August 2012 23:43 (five years ago) Permalink

Stakonia for me was the hollow record

Listen to this, dad (President Keyes), Saturday, 11 August 2012 23:44 (five years ago) Permalink

...yeah, now that you mention it. Yeah, it probably counts. Definitely fits in the "not immediately perceived hollowness is harbinger of career decline" - - never would have guessed when "Hey Ya!" dropped that their next album would be basically forgotten by history.

Doctor Casino, Saturday, 11 August 2012 23:50 (five years ago) Permalink

no one mentioned it during the 3 days before the poll went up so my conscience is clear, oddly enough i might have voted for it.

da croupier, Saturday, 11 August 2012 23:52 (five years ago) Permalink

also i love that album so it would never have made my "what was THAT bout?" radar indepedently

da croupier, Saturday, 11 August 2012 23:53 (five years ago) Permalink

Stakonia for me was the hollow record

― Listen to this, dad (President Keyes), Saturday, August 11, 2012 6:44 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

that record was their biggest crossover yet. a lot of fans didnt like it as much as the two previous (i prefer aquemini) but stankonia was definitely a breaching-the-mainstream moment for them so hollow or not (i dont think it is but w/e) it's still not an NJ imo

protected by viper. stand back. (D-40), Sunday, 12 August 2012 09:29 (five years ago) Permalink

oh yeah, SL/LB is a better NJ. Crazy how much of a big deal people thought it was at the time, and how quickly it was turned on.

Listen to this, dad (President Keyes), Sunday, 12 August 2012 10:30 (five years ago) Permalink

SB/LB obv

Listen to this, dad (President Keyes), Sunday, 12 August 2012 10:30 (five years ago) Permalink

A couple years ago I saw The Cult play Love in its entirety, and I was thinking I'd rather have heard Electric. And sure enough when they played a couple songs in the end, people really responded. It was the album that really broke in the U.S. Yeah it's an AC/DC tribute album curated by Rubin, but it's great! Just as cheesy as Love's Zeppelin worship, but without the gothy pretension! They played a few from the subsequent albums, and I got bored and left.

Fastnbulbous, Sunday, 12 August 2012 14:42 (five years ago) Permalink

Singles from the three albums seems to do about equally well on iTunes, with "Fire Woman" from Sonic Temple at #1: http://itunes.apple.com/us/artist/the-cult/id150548

EveningStar (Sund4r), Sunday, 12 August 2012 17:48 (five years ago) Permalink

Microserfs was totally my favourite Coupland book when I was in high school but it's also the lightest and most conventional in narrative. I'm not sure if I'd prefer it to Generation X if I read them now.

EveningStar (Sund4r), Sunday, 12 August 2012 20:12 (five years ago) Permalink

what about jay-z's? blueprint 2, black album and kingdom come all feel like they count for a variety of reasons

― max, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 3:22 PM (5 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

No Code was too big a dropoff in sales (and Vitalogy doesn't count because its hits had staying power), so i don't think Pearl Jam has one.

if Jay-Z has one it's Kingdom Come or American Gangster, but post-retirement thing makes that fit weird

― some dude, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 3:25 PM (5 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

everything that came after the blueprint is one epic new jersey

protected by viper. stand back. (D-40), Monday, 13 August 2012 02:16 (five years ago) Permalink

Van Jaygar, IMO

Doctor Casino, Monday, 13 August 2012 02:46 (five years ago) Permalink

what about jay-z's? blueprint 2, black album and kingdom come all feel like they count for a variety of reasons

― max, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 3:22 PM (5 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

No Code was too big a dropoff in sales (and Vitalogy doesn't count because its hits had staying power), so i don't think Pearl Jam has one.

if Jay-Z has one it's Kingdom Come or American Gangster, but post-retirement thing makes that fit weird

― some dude, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 3:25 PM (5 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

everything that came after the blueprint is one epic new jersey

― protected by viper. stand back. (D-40), Sunday, August 12, 2012 9:16 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

does anyone else notice this thing where they have friends who are jay-z friends that aren't huge hip hop fans for whom the blueprint is basically the FIRST jay-z album that "counts" -- and was usually purchased after they got into jay via the black album?

Jandek at the Disco (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 13 August 2012 16:51 (five years ago) Permalink

as someone who considers The Black Album the end, it's always pretty depressing to encounter people who consider it the beginning. tbh i'm ok with Jay being a non-head's token fav rapper more than almost any other rapper, i just wish they knew more of his first 5 albums.

Pollopolicía (some dude), Monday, 13 August 2012 17:08 (five years ago) Permalink

Black Album doesn't really count because at the time it was ostensibly a swansong (lol). Blueprint 2 works though.

Matt DC, Monday, 13 August 2012 17:09 (five years ago) Permalink

Not sure the commercial decline ever really happened there though.

Matt DC, Monday, 13 August 2012 17:10 (five years ago) Permalink

yeah Jay is too much in the "every album is an event" category to really be a factor in a serious New Jersey discussion

Pollopolicía (some dude), Monday, 13 August 2012 17:13 (five years ago) Permalink

you can build "new jersey" narratives for vol. 3, blueprint and the black album, but honestly the guy's done fine for his era and yeah the "every album is an event" thing stands too.

da croupier, Monday, 13 August 2012 17:16 (five years ago) Permalink

"Every album is an event" may also, in this case mean "still really successful and just wait til the REAL New Jersey comes out"

Doctor Casino, Monday, 13 August 2012 17:23 (five years ago) Permalink

no, Jay is in the Stones/Springsteen zone, every album will be an event until he stops making them, and if it was possible for him to make an album so bad/unappealing that people stopped paying attention there are a couple that would've done the trick by now.

Pollopolicía (some dude), Monday, 13 August 2012 17:25 (five years ago) Permalink

i think kingdom come pointed down a "who cares" road but he righted himself with a gangster narrative (for the critics) and arena rap (for the Black Album fans)

da croupier, Monday, 13 August 2012 17:35 (five years ago) Permalink

And a baby (for the ladies)

Eric H., Monday, 13 August 2012 17:59 (five years ago) Permalink

and an event album (for Kanye fans who care more about eventfulness than anything else)

Pollopolicía (some dude), Monday, 13 August 2012 18:03 (five years ago) Permalink

Bad example, but Texas' The Hush seems to spring to mind immediately. Also, Supposed Former Infatuation Junkie.

The Jupiter 8 (Turrican), Monday, 13 August 2012 19:26 (five years ago) Permalink

There MUST be a Rolling Stones New Jersey.

Matt DC, Monday, 13 August 2012 19:31 (five years ago) Permalink

I remain convinced Tattoo You qualifies in the outlines, even if it did not mean people stopped buying subsequent Rolling Stones records.

Doctor Casino, Monday, 13 August 2012 19:42 (five years ago) Permalink

it doesn't fit the criteria, but man does Steel Wheels feel like one.

EZ Snappin, Monday, 13 August 2012 19:49 (five years ago) Permalink

Also, from a UK perspective:

Blur - The Great Escape.

It's very easy to forget this (and maybe some Blur fans who were around at the time have attempted to wipe this completely from their memories) but in 1994-1995 on the back of the Parklife album, Blur were legitimate 100% bona fide pop stars. It's a fucking really weird situation when I look back upon it now. On one hand, they weren't really short of critical acclaim at this juncture, but on the other, they had the tabloids routinely hassling them and pre-pubescent girls littering the front rows of their gigs, like they were fucking Boyzone or something. The Great Escape was a very eagerly awaited event album which got great reviews upon release and yielded several hits, but by 1996 perception had changed quite a fair amount and it looked like the game was up.

Of course, the game wasn't up: they released the Blur album which yielded the international hit 'Song 2'. But while 'Beetlebum' was a UK #1 and Blur seemed to be as popular as ever, and while the band were still not short of critical acclaim, they were no longer pop stars on the same level as they were in 1994-1995. As much as I like The Great Escape, moving away from that sound was definitely the best move they could have possibly made. They (especially Graham Coxon) didn't seem comfortable with the whole thing at all.

The Jupiter 8 (Turrican), Monday, 13 August 2012 19:53 (five years ago) Permalink

Goat's Head Soup is the Stones' artistic New Jersey

Jandek at the Disco (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 13 August 2012 20:01 (five years ago) Permalink

Ditto, although--I already messed up the thread's premise once--I don't think "ultimately feels a bit hollow" and "signals a career decline" adequately conveys the gap between Exile and Goat's Head Soup. (Says a guy who lost his copy of Goat's Head Soup 35+ years ago...)

clemenza, Monday, 13 August 2012 20:05 (five years ago) Permalink

it doesn't fit the criteria, but man does Steel Wheels feel like one.

― EZ Snappin, Monday, August 13, 2012 7:49 PM (50 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^^^

The Jupiter 8 (Turrican), Monday, 13 August 2012 20:41 (five years ago) Permalink

for many of us "Mixed Emotions" was what "She's So Cold" and "Start Me Up" and the other Mall Rat Years hits were to the rest of you.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 13 August 2012 20:44 (five years ago) Permalink

yeah i know, i'm the same age as you i think

Jandek at the Disco (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 13 August 2012 20:51 (five years ago) Permalink

My vote for the Stones' New Jersey is Goats Heads Soup, big selling album that is almost universally considered a major drop in quality from the past, but I get Tattoo You (patchwork awesome album that signaled the inability to get everyone in the same room) and Steel Wheels ("comeback" album that signaled the ability to get together indifferently every couple years for profit) as well.

da croupier, Monday, 13 August 2012 21:05 (five years ago) Permalink

yeah that's my prob w/steel wheels is that no human being on earth thought that they were coming off their "peak" when they released that album

Jandek at the Disco (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 13 August 2012 21:14 (five years ago) Permalink

though i guess at the time exile probably wasn't considered a peak either....exile on mainstreet is a pinkerton i guess

Jandek at the Disco (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 13 August 2012 21:14 (five years ago) Permalink

pinkertons could be a whole nother thread

Jandek at the Disco (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 13 August 2012 21:14 (five years ago) Permalink

no human being on earth thought that they were coming off their "peak" when they released that album

Dirty Work does have its fans

da croupier, Monday, 13 August 2012 21:16 (five years ago) Permalink

Tattoo You was also a giant seller with several top 20 hits, of which only "Start Me Up" (Hot 100 #2) gets moderate play now, and that only with the shot in the arm that it got from the big Windows 95 campaign, IMO. Despite its big success, I've never seen the album itself get ranked very highly or talked up as a must-own album.

Also, as Wiki puts it: "A very popular album upon release, it is the last Rolling Stones album to reach the top position of the US charts, concluding a string of #1's dating back to 1971's Sticky Fingers." The following albums (Undercover and Dirty Work) sold way, way less and have no staple songs. Not sure I buy the "every Stones album is an event" line with those two.

Doctor Casino, Monday, 13 August 2012 21:17 (five years ago) Permalink

Dirty Work does have its fans

AYO

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 13 August 2012 21:18 (five years ago) Permalink

Tattoo You gets plenty of love but mostly as a solid Stones album than a crucial one

da croupier, Monday, 13 August 2012 21:18 (five years ago) Permalink

I also can't help but think of Coldplay's X&Y, which was a big event album in the UK on the back of A Rush Of Blood To The Head. I know it didn't kill their career, but it did yield six singles: 'Speed Of Sound' (UK #2), 'Fix You' (UK #4), 'Talk' (UK #10), with 'The Hardest Part', 'What If' and 'White Shadows' being radio-only in various territories. Only 'Fix You' has left any kind of lasting impression.

Viva La Vida gave Coldplay back some degree of critical acclaim and gave some memorable hit singles ('Viva La Vida', 'Violet Hill'), but it seems they might have made their second X&Y with Mylo Xyloto...

The Jupiter 8 (Turrican), Monday, 13 August 2012 21:18 (five years ago) Permalink

DUDE..."Waiting on a Friend" gets massive airplay -- maybe their most popular second single.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 13 August 2012 21:19 (five years ago) Permalink

xp to the Doctor

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 13 August 2012 21:19 (five years ago) Permalink

I don't know, Alfred. Been a long time since I've heard that one.

timellison, Monday, 13 August 2012 21:22 (five years ago) Permalink

Re: tattoo you being ranked highly, In 1989, it was ranked #34 on Rolling Stone magazine's list of the 100 greatest albums of the 1980s. In 2003, the album was ranked number 211 on Rolling Stone magazine's list of the 500 greatest albums of all time.

da croupier, Monday, 13 August 2012 21:22 (five years ago) Permalink

granted that's from the magazine where Goddess In The Doorway got five stars, but it suggests legs.

da croupier, Monday, 13 August 2012 21:23 (five years ago) Permalink

TY frequently gets 4 or 4.5 stars in most assessments of their work. I'm not defending the album, only noting that the album was huge and remains quite popular enough with their fans to remain the Scary Monsters benchmark.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 13 August 2012 21:25 (five years ago) Permalink

xpost It's from a magazine named after the band being ranked! What else were they going to pad out their 1980s list with?

Doctor Casino, Monday, 13 August 2012 21:25 (five years ago) Permalink

She's The Boss

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 13 August 2012 21:26 (five years ago) Permalink

haha, okay, i wd concede that Tattoo You may be their Scary Monsters rather than their New Jersey, their Fairweather Johnson, their Blood on the Tracks, or their White Album. I also like the idea that every huge artist ultimately gets to contribute one album as a fundamental rock record type.

Doctor Casino, Monday, 13 August 2012 21:27 (five years ago) Permalink

As I suggested in the poll thread, the Rolling Stones have three obvious (and all defensible) stepping-off points: Exile, Some Girls, and Tattoo You. Which one you choose is going to be generational with some people, with others a matter of interpretation.

clemenza, Monday, 13 August 2012 21:28 (five years ago) Permalink

If you want to argue for later than Tattoo You, good luck, you're on your own.

clemenza, Monday, 13 August 2012 21:29 (five years ago) Permalink

I wrote here or elsewhere a few years ago that without knowing a thing about the degree to which Mick and the band hated each other (or what this period augured) I'd be forgiven for thinking that being a teen and hearing "She's So Cold," "Miss You," "Shattered," "Hang Fire," and "Start Me Up" on the radio and anchored to good to great albums was anything but a fabulous time to be a Stones fan.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 13 August 2012 21:32 (five years ago) Permalink

Sorta inevitable with bands that have multi-decade careers and have acquired whole new fanbases at different times - it stands to reason they'd also shed those fanbases at different times. This brings us back around to the Wings issue maybe, since the mysterious body of people who sold out Wings arena shows through the 70s and festooned their dorm rooms with Speed of Sound posters does not necessarily line up 1:1 with the girls screaming when the Beatles landed, or the teenagers practicing their Romeo lines from "The Girl Is Mine." (Past a certain point, these groups all converge as they become Dad and buy the coffeeshop albums.)

Doctor Casino, Monday, 13 August 2012 21:32 (five years ago) Permalink

Does Dylan have one of these? Nashville Skyline presaging Self Portrait? Street Legal?

Listen to this, dad (President Keyes), Monday, 13 August 2012 23:20 (five years ago) Permalink

DESIRE

da croupier, Monday, 13 August 2012 23:24 (five years ago) Permalink

yep!

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 13 August 2012 23:26 (five years ago) Permalink

quite a few defenders here (not me)

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 13 August 2012 23:26 (five years ago) Permalink

If that's the one after Blood on the Tracks, yes. Neil's, I think, is either Rust, Reactor, or Ragged Glory, depending upon how you look at it. (I'm too close to that one to make the right call--for me, probably Reactor.)

clemenza, Monday, 13 August 2012 23:28 (five years ago) Permalink

i can see the logic for Nashville, even though I like it. John Wesley being the meaty "ok i'm a rootsy chanteur now" album, Nashville being more campy and broad, Self-Portrait being his first "yeesh" moment.

And yeah, Desire is still ranked highly on that RS top 500 mamajama, another option is Modern Times, which apparently went platinum while Love & Theft only went gold!

da croupier, Monday, 13 August 2012 23:29 (five years ago) Permalink

A Neil possibility: Mirror Ball

da croupier, Monday, 13 August 2012 23:30 (five years ago) Permalink

dylan himself said that he made nashville skyline to make ppl not like him anymore, same w/self-portrait

plus nashville skyline has the whole weird voice thing, and I hold that new jerseys can't be stylistic shifts

desire is definitely a new jersey of blood on the tracks, but then again that era spit hot lava all over the motherfuckin' track on the rolling thunder review

i don't think dylan really has one tbh

same w/neil

Jandek at the Disco (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 13 August 2012 23:32 (five years ago) Permalink

Self-Portrait is merely his first misstep, which every artist gets and lots of fans forgave him for. The two followups were modest gestures and warm-ups for The Next Statement.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 13 August 2012 23:32 (five years ago) Permalink

yeah i mean anything under 3x platinum is not really a new jersey, it's just fun to yammer about where the greats got close

da croupier, Monday, 13 August 2012 23:33 (five years ago) Permalink

re Neil: an artist can have a couple New Jerseys!

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 13 August 2012 23:33 (five years ago) Permalink

i guess a new jersey for a career/cult artist would be the album that signified the end of their glory period (or a glory period), only it was sold and basically accepted as an ongoing part of the glory period initially.

da croupier, Monday, 13 August 2012 23:36 (five years ago) Permalink

obviously none of these are as fun as a REAL new jersey, which involves hoodwinking more than like a half million nerds

da croupier, Monday, 13 August 2012 23:37 (five years ago) Permalink

we probably need a different label for a critical or cult version of a New Jersey so we don't keep having these 3x platinum reminders.

Listen to this, dad (President Keyes), Monday, 13 August 2012 23:38 (five years ago) Permalink

xxpost

Under the Bushes, Under the Stars?

Jandek at the Disco (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 13 August 2012 23:38 (five years ago) Permalink

yeah i'm trying to think of a blatantly obvious album that was accepted at glorious that the air has dropped out of - I'm thinking Little Creatures but I bet some people will get sandy vadge about that

da croupier, Monday, 13 August 2012 23:40 (five years ago) Permalink

some people still love that but it was the #1 album in pazz'n'jop and pretty uniformly it's looked at as their weakest album to that point now.

da croupier, Monday, 13 August 2012 23:40 (five years ago) Permalink

The more culty the act, the harder this gets because you have less and less of a consensus about where they fell off (or if they did so at all).

Doctor Casino, Monday, 13 August 2012 23:43 (five years ago) Permalink

totally

da croupier, Monday, 13 August 2012 23:43 (five years ago) Permalink

...although i guess this thread is proof that the 3x platinum smashes are not necessarily reservoirs of consensus...

Doctor Casino, Monday, 13 August 2012 23:45 (five years ago) Permalink

yeah it's just harder to contradict "that's not how it felt under my rock" belly-achers with STATS

da croupier, Monday, 13 August 2012 23:47 (five years ago) Permalink

True Storires is a better candidate if we drop the 3x platinum.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 13 August 2012 23:48 (five years ago) Permalink

it does have the "it had a movie!" card and their least critically respected top 40 hit, even the critics had already lept back a bit.

da croupier, Monday, 13 August 2012 23:50 (five years ago) Permalink

How can any artist with multiple generations of fans making their albums hits count as having a New Jersey? Isn't one of the reasons New Jersey is the benchmark for this kind of thing because it represented a perceived fleeting high water mark of cultural relevance that would never be approached again? Or at least the album that signified that the artist was a one era touchstone? Rolling Stones, Bob Dylan, Neil Young,... all these guys had culturally relevant big sellers long after their initial splash. Isn't half the point that Bon Jovi never again had cultural relevance after New Jersey. Now I'm young-ish, but my impression of all these classic rock dudes is that they fell off for a bit and had a big splash album later, so... that kind of disqualifies them from having a New Jersey at all.

Also, is the fact that Bon Jovi lost all cultural relevance post New Jersey (or is post Nevermind?) central to a New Jersey? Because Talking Heads never really lost that cultural relevance in the same way. Unless there are a bunch of kids out there listening to top 40 hair metal from the 80s and I'm not aware of it...

I like this idea of Pinkertons though... but other than maybe VU & Nico I can't think of anything that would match that trajectory.

brontosaur, Tuesday, 14 August 2012 00:03 (five years ago) Permalink

Because Talking Heads never really lost that cultural relevance in the same way.

Not in the same way but they sure did. The nineties were hard for a Heads fan. Chris Frantz was moaning in '99 that the band sold few records in catalog and the band left no heirs.

Things changed in 2002, of course.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 14 August 2012 00:04 (five years ago) Permalink

Yeah but... 2002 DID happen. Bon Jovi never got a similar chance and I don't see it happening. Also, growing up in the 90s I KNEW Bon Jovi wasn't cool, but somehow Talking Heads seemed cool. And I never owned a Talking Heads album back then, but my first CD was Slippery When Wet (my friend had New Jersey on cassette).

brontosaur, Tuesday, 14 August 2012 00:22 (five years ago) Permalink

yeah i'm trying to think of a blatantly obvious album that was accepted at glorious that the air has dropped out of - I'm thinking Little Creatures but I bet some people will get sandy vadge about that

― da croupier, Monday, August 13, 2012 7:40 PM (54 minutes ago) Bookmark

sand in the vadge: popular favorites

Pollopolicía (some dude), Tuesday, 14 August 2012 00:36 (five years ago) Permalink

Kate Bush The Dreaming? i mean it was her biggest charting album up to that point.

piscesx, Tuesday, 14 August 2012 00:53 (five years ago) Permalink

it didn't sell well, it's an excellent record, and the followup was huge

on a scale of 1 to Rhonda how hot are you today? (electricsound), Tuesday, 14 August 2012 00:57 (five years ago) Permalink

a huge event album that felt hollow?

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 14 August 2012 00:57 (five years ago) Permalink

Talking Heads had a very brief 5 year window of not being cool in the '90s that affirmed their timeless hipness that coincided with Bill Murray experiencing same

Pollopolicía (some dude), Tuesday, 14 August 2012 00:57 (five years ago) Permalink

sensual world would be my kate pick

on a scale of 1 to Rhonda how hot are you today? (electricsound), Tuesday, 14 August 2012 00:59 (five years ago) Permalink

lol you guys are reaching

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 14 August 2012 00:59 (five years ago) Permalink

The Dreaming, Hounds of Love, and The Sensual World each has substantial cachet.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 14 August 2012 01:00 (five years ago) Permalink

In a sense Bush was pretty smart to wait a long ass time to make an album after Red Shoes (Her highest charting album in the US)

da croupier, Tuesday, 14 August 2012 01:01 (five years ago) Permalink

a well timed hiatus is basically the best career move in music, as far as engendering goodwill

Pollopolicía (some dude), Tuesday, 14 August 2012 01:13 (five years ago) Permalink

i was thinking maybe DMX had a New Jersey, but the last of his three triple platinum albums, And Then There Was X, was also the biggest and had some of his most enduring hits. pretty big drop from that two The Great Depression's single platinum, though.

Pollopolicía (some dude), Tuesday, 14 August 2012 01:29 (five years ago) Permalink

two=to

Pollopolicía (some dude), Tuesday, 14 August 2012 01:29 (five years ago) Permalink

skimming through the history of #1 albums in the US and here are some potentials we arguably missed.

Styx - Paradise Theater. 3x platinum. Only #1 album, had two top ten hits and neither are "come sail away" or "babe". next, Kilroy Was here (mentioned earlier in the thread), had hits but only went platinum. someone in their 40s can enlighten because i was told these guys were worse than wings and never had reason to believe otherwise.

Cypress Hill - Black Sunday. 3x platinum, with debut only going 2x platinum. Yes "insane in the brain" but imo barely a patch on the debut and def sign

Wu-Tang Clan - Wu Tang Forever - granted, a 2cd going 4x platinum means they actually shipped around half that, but still.

Korn - Issues. Last multiplatinum, and had two top ten alternative radio hits where Follow had only one. I sure don't recall "Falling Away From Me" and "Make Me Bad" as fondly as I do "Freak On A Leash" and "Got The Life" but maybe someone 4 years younger than me can school this.

Two factoids about not-quite-new-jersiers I discovered during this sift.
1) Did you know BOTH big All-4-One songs were covers of songs originally done by John Michael Montgomery?
2) Kenny G's first christmas album from 1994 (8x platinum) is named Miracles: The Holiday Album. His second, from 1999 (3x platinum) is named Faith: A Holiday Album.

da croupier, Tuesday, 14 August 2012 03:15 (five years ago) Permalink

Wow, Issues, I think I always thought "Falling Away From Me" was from the same album as "Freak On A Leash" - it was just all part of the lotta-Korn-on-the-radio wave. That seems New Jersey-ish.

Wu-Tang Forever probably counts although its fans love it, a lot. But event-wise, it was more the centerpiece of the suddenly gigantic Wu empire than the album itself, y'know? It's the Avengers movie, not Iron Man 3 or Thor 2 or whatever.

hahahaha re: Kenny G

Doctor Casino, Tuesday, 14 August 2012 03:28 (five years ago) Permalink

one thing i will give Korn is that they haven't let commercial decline slow them down one bit. that dubstep album last year was their sixth studio album since Issues, no major label rock band churns 'em out like them.

Pollopolicía (some dude), Tuesday, 14 August 2012 03:57 (five years ago) Permalink

someone in their 40s can enlighten because i was told these guys were worse than wings and never had reason to believe otherwise.

Understatement.

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 14 August 2012 04:03 (five years ago) Permalink

Wu-Tang Forever probably counts although its fans love it, a lot. But event-wise, it was more the centerpiece of the suddenly gigantic Wu empire than the album itself, y'know? It's the Avengers movie, not Iron Man 3 or Thor 2 or whatever.

wu is hard though because i consider all of the work that took place from the release of 36 chambe & all the solos albums to be "wu tang" stuff in general, i think that initial era is all wu tang no matter who's name is on the cover

that said, wu tang forever definitely signalled the end of that era so that bolsters its new jersey credentials

fwiw, I waited in line at midnight outside of a record store to get Wu Tang Forever, if that helps in the "event album" sense

Jandek at the Disco (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 14 August 2012 15:24 (five years ago) Permalink

Also, is the fact that Bon Jovi lost all cultural relevance post New Jersey (or is post Nevermind?) central to a New Jersey? Because Talking Heads never really lost that cultural relevance in the same way. Unless there are a bunch of kids out there listening to top 40 hair metal from the 80s and I'm not aware of it...

See my post upthread about Bon Jovi's sales, radio play, and tours post-NJ. They are far from having lost all cultural relevance. (They got plenty of new country airplay around the time of their last album.) JBJ even appeared on 30 Rock. "Livin' on a Prayer" was probably one of the most popular songs on the course listening when I taught rock music in Buffalo btw. Karaoke staple at student pub nights etc.

EveningStar (Sund4r), Tuesday, 14 August 2012 15:35 (five years ago) Permalink

the problem with the avengers movie analogy is that it's actually a sales-peak "reunion" album, which I don't think anyone rates over their first, rather than a "supergroup" debut.

da croupier, Tuesday, 14 August 2012 15:37 (five years ago) Permalink

relevance is a weird word for a group like Bon Jovi--yeah, they don't make the cover of Spin anymore, but they'd probably fill a stadium faster than a bill of the last 20 rock bands to get a BNM from p4k.

Listen to this, dad (President Keyes), Tuesday, 14 August 2012 15:49 (five years ago) Permalink

"It's My Life" is also notable for its line referencing Frank Sinatra: "My heart is like an open highway / Like Frankie said / I did it 'My Way'." Jon Bon Jovi and Richie Sambora apparently had a disagreement over those lines, with Bon Jovi recalling:[3]

I had just come home from making U-571 and I said "Sinatra made 16 movies and toured 'til he was 80. This is my role model". He [Sambora] said, "You can't write that damn lyric. Nobody cares about Frank Sinatra but you." And I wrote it anyway.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 14 August 2012 16:07 (five years ago) Permalink

Sambora really clinging to his cultural relevance there

da croupier, Tuesday, 14 August 2012 16:09 (five years ago) Permalink

Bon Jovi had consistently impressive sales in the 2000s.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 14 August 2012 16:11 (five years ago) Permalink

yeah once they hit that 2x platinum lower plateau they kept it going

da croupier, Tuesday, 14 August 2012 16:14 (five years ago) Permalink

I mean, I'm looking at the sales of Crush, Have a Nice Day, and Lost Highway and – wow, what a plateau.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 14 August 2012 16:15 (five years ago) Permalink

and I always forget what a touchstone they are in England

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 14 August 2012 16:16 (five years ago) Permalink

in the 90s they still had videos on MTV "gimme something for the BLUES!" then came "It's My Life" and then their subtle shift towards country...only real misstep was his Destination Anywhere album in the late '90s but that was really an indulgence slapped onto an audition reel mini-movie co-starring Demi Moore and Whoopi Goldberg that I remember catching on VH1.

da croupier, Tuesday, 14 August 2012 16:18 (five years ago) Permalink

numbers have diminished a bit in the last decade, but not at a rate any more precipitous than the music industry itself.

da croupier, Tuesday, 14 August 2012 16:19 (five years ago) Permalink

while definitely a cheesy cross between roots-rock and hard rock, they've served up that cheese consistently without demanding the audience respect them or anything.

da croupier, Tuesday, 14 August 2012 16:21 (five years ago) Permalink

Their song "Who Says You Can't Go Home" has been omnipresent on Country radio stations for 6 years, though I doubt many of us have heard it.

Listen to this, dad (President Keyes), Tuesday, 14 August 2012 16:22 (five years ago) Permalink

Why would you doubt that?

EveningStar (Sund4r), Tuesday, 14 August 2012 16:25 (five years ago) Permalink

I've heard it: it sounds like Johnny Cougar.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 14 August 2012 16:27 (five years ago) Permalink

by "us" i mean ilm, which is collectively not all that into country radio

Listen to this, dad (President Keyes), Tuesday, 14 August 2012 16:29 (five years ago) Permalink

Yeah, I don't go out of my way to listen to country radio but that song was everywhere.

EveningStar (Sund4r), Tuesday, 14 August 2012 16:32 (five years ago) Permalink

seriously dying at richie sambora worrying that "like frankie said i did it my way" was too esoteric

Pollopolicía (some dude), Tuesday, 14 August 2012 16:33 (five years ago) Permalink

Continuum, maybe a contender?

Earth, Wind & Fire & Alabama (Eazy), Tuesday, 14 August 2012 16:33 (five years ago) Permalink

I forgot the version of the song in this video was actually slightly different from the studio version of the song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ahf2B_eZUc4

EveningStar (Sund4r), Thursday, 16 August 2012 04:57 (five years ago) Permalink

Here's one: Nelly - Sweat/Suit

The Reverend, Thursday, 16 August 2012 06:46 (five years ago) Permalink

It's less that Bon Jovi had a big career decline and more that Slippery When Wet was so monumentally huge that it couldn't be repeated.

Matt DC, Thursday, 16 August 2012 09:35 (five years ago) Permalink

four weeks pass...

thought of one that nobody had mentioned: As I Am by Alicia Keys was her last triple platinum album, the next one sold half as much, and the only song anyone remembers from it is "No One," which isn't as highly regarded as several hits from her first 2 albums.

the show must goon (some dude), Saturday, 15 September 2012 12:52 (four years ago) Permalink

ha, "no one" was her first hit that i liked.

da croupier, Saturday, 15 September 2012 12:59 (four years ago) Permalink

i dunno about "regard" but it looks like "No One" outsold all the previous singles by a wide margin, and "half as much" drop-offs seem less meaningful after 2006, when like, the industry's in freefall.

da croupier, Saturday, 15 September 2012 13:02 (four years ago) Permalink

any successful single will have higher sales figures in 2007 than any successful single from 2001-2004. "Fallin'" would've been multi-platinum too if it came out in the iTunes boom years.

the show must goon (some dude), Saturday, 15 September 2012 13:06 (four years ago) Permalink

also As I Am sold three million in 2007-2008, after album sales started to drop off big time. when The Element of Freedom (lol) sold half as much 2 years later it was because of lack of pop hits/audience enthusiasm, not the sales climate.

the show must goon (some dude), Saturday, 15 September 2012 13:08 (four years ago) Permalink

Wasn't "Try sleeping with a broken heart" a big hit and isn't it her best song? (it is imo)

Why can't I be food? (Ówen P.), Saturday, 15 September 2012 13:09 (four years ago) Permalink

There were three top 10 hits off that album in the UK fwiw.

Why can't I be food? (Ówen P.), Saturday, 15 September 2012 13:10 (four years ago) Permalink

it's hilarious that "Doesn't Mean Anything" and the Jay-Z-less version of "Empire State of Mind" were huge in the UK (while the album's biggest US hit, "Un-Thinkable," didn't even chart there!)

the show must goon (some dude), Saturday, 15 September 2012 13:13 (four years ago) Permalink

"No One" is probably her biggest hit, technically speaking. And at this point I hear it way more than even "Fallin'," in coffee shops and grocery stores and such. Not unwelcome either, I really like that track. Not sure that invalidates the parent album as a New Jersey, but yeah, the goofy industry at this point probably moves the goalposts. We may have to revisit this thread in a systematic way ten years from now with "Every huge artist post-2003 has a 'Born This Way'..."

Doctor Casino, Saturday, 15 September 2012 14:48 (four years ago) Permalink

The next Drake album is almost certainly going to be a New Jersey

listen to that wu-tang whistle blowin' (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, 15 September 2012 14:58 (four years ago) Permalink

only in the sense that he resembles a Jersey Shore cast member

the show must goon (some dude), Saturday, 15 September 2012 15:15 (four years ago) Permalink

Every huge Drake has their 'every Drake album' - a huge event album that immediately feels a bit hollow and signals a career monotone

Doctor Casino, Saturday, 15 September 2012 15:59 (four years ago) Permalink

::croons over muffled drums about how hollow it all feels::

the show must goon (some dude), Saturday, 15 September 2012 16:14 (four years ago) Permalink

Manic Street Preachers - This Is My Truth Tell Me Yours

― Gavin, Leeds, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:39 (1 month ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Actually, for MSP I'd suggest Know Your Enemy is that album. It's notable as being the Manics last really hyped "event" album, but also arrived with the nagging feeling they were becoming exhausted as a cultural force - which they went on to prove by following it up with the disappointingly insipid Lifeblood. Due to the gimmick of releasing two lead singles simultaneously, KNE had two number ones in the same week, "So Why So Sad" & "Found That Soul". But who remembers those now? Or "Let Robeson Sing", for that matter?

Pheeel, Saturday, 15 September 2012 16:28 (four years ago) Permalink

Lifeblood is so much better than This Is My Truth, Kill Your Enemy and the other two non-Richey lyrics late period albums

Supper's Burnt (PaulTMA), Sunday, 16 September 2012 00:54 (four years ago) Permalink

Solitude Sometimes Is is the songs they should have released as a single. It's truly great.

Supper's Burnt (PaulTMA), Sunday, 16 September 2012 00:56 (four years ago) Permalink

two months pass...

Sound Loaded is the sixth album by the Puerto Rican singer Ricky Martin, released by Columbia Records on November 14, 2000. The album has been credited with worldwide sales of over eight million copies and went Multi-Platinum in the United States and several other territories. This album is Martin's fourth marketed in the US, and is his second album in English. It includes the hit singles "She Bangs" and "Nobody Wants to Be Lonely".

Doctor Casino, Monday, 3 December 2012 06:51 (four years ago) Permalink

(of course, it may still be seen as a Big Deal outside the anglophone world; perhaps it's a Slippery in Puerto Rico and a Fairweather Johnson in the States?)

Doctor Casino, Monday, 3 December 2012 06:52 (four years ago) Permalink

I felt this way about "And Justice For All" at the time it came out.
I still feel that way and I don't care about how The Black Album was huge.

Loud guitars shit all over "Bette Davis Eyes" (NYCNative), Monday, 3 December 2012 07:01 (four years ago) Permalink

And Justice For All was twice as good as Master of Puppets.

how's life, Monday, 3 December 2012 13:44 (four years ago) Permalink

The only thing it doesn't have is something that can compare to "Orion", which itself is three or four times more luminous than anything else in their catalog.

how's life, Monday, 3 December 2012 13:47 (four years ago) Permalink

no way is AJFA a New Jersey.

the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 3 December 2012 14:13 (four years ago) Permalink

Cliff's death makesit kinda hard to judge

U.S. State Department, Office of Rare Psych (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 3 December 2012 14:56 (four years ago) Permalink

I would have thought Load was Metallica's New Jersey, myself...

The Jupiter 8 (Turrican), Monday, 3 December 2012 15:02 (four years ago) Permalink

The only thing it doesn't have is something that can compare to "Orion" bass.

and I scream Fieri Eiffel Tower High (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 3 December 2012 16:32 (four years ago) Permalink

Cliff's death makesit kinda hard to judge

― U.S. State Department, Office of Rare Psych (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, December 3, 2012 9:56 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ha there's nothing to judge -- the whole New Jersey thing is based on sales and mass popularity, and AJFA made them bigger than ever, and they got even bigger with the next album, therefore it's not possible.

these markers love soda (some dude), Monday, 3 December 2012 16:37 (four years ago) Permalink

yeah if metallica has one it's unquestionably load

da croupier, Monday, 3 December 2012 17:03 (four years ago) Permalink

I'd have said the Black album was their New Jersey, definitely

make like a steak and beef (dog latin), Monday, 3 December 2012 18:34 (four years ago) Permalink

Well, you are bonkers. The Black album is a Slippery if I've ever seen one.

Doctor Casino, Monday, 3 December 2012 18:37 (four years ago) Permalink

for real. The Black Album is their WE MADE IT.

the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 3 December 2012 18:49 (four years ago) Permalink

some circumstantial evidence:

"Enter Sandman" #16 hot 100, #10 rock
"Until It Sleeps" #10 hot 100, #1 rock
"The Memory Remains" #28 hot 100, #3 rock

the question of whether ReLoad or Garage Inc or S&M or St Anger is the TRUE "bloom officially off rose" follow-up to Load blurs things, but i can't imagine an argument for any earlier album being a New Jersey that doesn't hinge on the maker's tastes

da croupier, Monday, 3 December 2012 19:22 (four years ago) Permalink

also here's the from-each-album breakdown of their last tour setlist in august

Metallica (4)
Ride the Lightning (4)
Master of Puppets (3)
Kill 'em All (2)
Reload (2)
…and Justice for All (2)
Death Magnetic (1)

da croupier, Monday, 3 December 2012 19:28 (four years ago) Permalink

it's actually hilarious that the only load single they've played with any regularity live in the last 10 years is "king nothing," but apparently "the memory remains" is a staple

da croupier, Monday, 3 December 2012 19:32 (four years ago) Permalink

the last Xtina album Bionic might count as one of these.

piscesx, Monday, 3 December 2012 19:46 (four years ago) Permalink

bionic is just a straight-up flop. problem with xtina is that every album has sold a fraction of the one before it. i guess the best argument would be for stripped

da croupier, Monday, 3 December 2012 19:50 (four years ago) Permalink

huh except apparently stripped was way bigger in europe than the debut

da croupier, Monday, 3 December 2012 19:52 (four years ago) Permalink

I've probably misunderstood the concept of New Jersey

make like a steak and beef (dog latin), Tuesday, 4 December 2012 21:25 (four years ago) Permalink

mm me too i think. i'm crap at this game.

piscesx, Tuesday, 4 December 2012 22:49 (four years ago) Permalink

It would help if it had nothing to do with Bon jovi

make like a steak and beef (dog latin), Tuesday, 4 December 2012 22:49 (four years ago) Permalink

Pssh, it's like y'all aren't willing to put in the effort to attentively study 1,500+ posts across three threads about this incredibly narrow category we've hashed out!

Doctor Casino, Wednesday, 5 December 2012 04:21 (four years ago) Permalink

the nerve

RIP Gramp C (some dude), Wednesday, 5 December 2012 04:21 (four years ago) Permalink

three months pass...

ilxor chr1s just called it via email to me today:

the 20/20 Experience is Timberlake's New Jersey

we'll be following this story as it develops

ums (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 22 March 2013 20:24 (four years ago) Permalink

Ha, Chris Molanphy is also saying reasonably similar over on FB and Twitter:

https://www.facebook.com/cmolanphy/posts/148890768612236

Ned Raggett, Friday, 22 March 2013 20:31 (four years ago) Permalink

News from Billboard that the Timberlake album sales estimates just keep drifting higher—they've gone from 500Kish to a monster 800K-plus (bit.ly/WHxBhB)—remind me of a rule I coined in my column a few years back, the "AC/DC Rule" (second page of this 2011 column about Gaga, below).

The rule states that initial sales of an album, particularly a blockbuster, are a referendum on the public's feelings about the act's LAST album, not the new one. I named it after AC/DC, who scored their first No. 1 album not with all-time best disc 'Back in Black,' but with the 1981 *followup* to 'BiB' (the largely forgotten 'For Those About to Rock, We Salute You').

Ned Raggett, Friday, 22 March 2013 20:32 (four years ago) Permalink

Ha! I emailed sh@kedown cuz I couldn't find this thread...I was thinking about this last night cuz my wife was chomping at the bit to get this record & was all crazy hyped for it. But I asked her how she liked it and she just said it was "good" but in that way where I could just tell she wasn't feeling it.

Another element to the "New Jersey" that we didn't really touch on that I think is important...part of what makes a record a "New Jersey" is that the previous album has to be kind of surprise hit & the "New Jersey" record sells a ton out of the gate becuz people are almost making up for the last record sneaking up on them.

I think the audience makes a record a "New Jersey" as much as the artist does, maybe more.

chr1sb3singer, Friday, 22 March 2013 20:48 (four years ago) Permalink

did we mention Paula Abdul's Spellbound?

the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 23 March 2013 12:01 (four years ago) Permalink

lol:

Paula Abdul - Spellbound

― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, August 7, 2012 2:31 PM (7 months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

hah perfect

― da croupier, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 2:31 PM (7 months ago)

the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 23 March 2013 12:19 (four years ago) Permalink

three weeks pass...

boo on "ac/dc rule"

gentle german fatherly voice (President Keyes), Sunday, 14 April 2013 01:14 (four years ago) Permalink

”joke's on you/you heard a bitin'-ass crew”

ums (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 14 April 2013 14:58 (four years ago) Permalink

Tbf it's not precisely the same idea, and chris has been calling it that for a couple years now

Rapper Boy (some dude), Sunday, 14 April 2013 15:00 (four years ago) Permalink

"New Jersey" rule is more subjective.. not solely backed up by data/numbers.

billstevejim, Sunday, 14 April 2013 15:06 (four years ago) Permalink

i think this ac/dc theory makes sense. i don't like the implication, though, that the 20/20 experience is worse than futuresex/lovesounds and will, in the long run, prove ephemeral. the 20/20 experience is great.

Pat Finn, Sunday, 14 April 2013 15:06 (four years ago) Permalink

Yeah, it's a weak peg on which to hang it as a 'current' story. I do like the approach to the numbers, with the specific breakdown of the previous "classic" record's sales peak/timeline. But yeah, it's a different thing, more concerned with canonical/catalog records rather than phenomena at the time. The New Jersey lens opens up the phenomenon of something like Third Stage, whereas the AC/DC thing would seem to suggest that all the Boston fans had been well and properly soured by their experience of Don't Look Back.

Doctor Casino, Sunday, 14 April 2013 16:00 (four years ago) Permalink

"New Jersey" rule is more subjective.. not solely backed up by data/numbers.

― billstevejim, Sunday, April 14, 2013 11:06 AM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ya i suppose this is more interesting, nevermind

flopson, Sunday, 14 April 2013 19:08 (four years ago) Permalink

20/20 is good ya but it will prove ephemeral in contrast to fs/ls

flopson, Sunday, 14 April 2013 19:11 (four years ago) Permalink

Related to the current Police poll, Synchronicity is a great example of New Jersey potential skillfully dodged.

cougars and sneezers (Eazy), Sunday, 14 April 2013 19:40 (four years ago) Permalink

yet another example of how hate is a marvelous thing

the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 14 April 2013 19:42 (four years ago) Permalink

An example of an album that passes the AC/DC rule but not the New Jersey would be Weezer's Pinkerton - which certainly had bigger first-week sales than the Blue Album even with its relative underperformance. However, the Green album charted higher and one couldn't really argue Pinkerton was the beginning of the end at all. There's definitely some correlation, but not all albums that benefit from following a blockbuster necessarily signal the beginning of the end in hindsight.

da croupier, Sunday, 14 April 2013 20:06 (four years ago) Permalink

there are undoubtedly better examples (particularly since Pinkerton's chart peak was below the Blue Album's), however the point is that while it's not hard for an album to fulfill both, it's not guaranteed.

da croupier, Sunday, 14 April 2013 20:13 (four years ago) Permalink

Related to the current Police poll, Synchronicity is a great example of New Jersey potential skillfully dodged.

― cougars and sneezers (Eazy), Sunday, April 14, 2013 3:40 PM (32 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

But Ghost In The Machine didn't exactly set the world on fire, iirc...might that be the Police's New Jersey?

Pope Frank is the messenger of your doom (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Sunday, 14 April 2013 20:14 (four years ago) Permalink

Every Police album outsold and outcharted its predecessor in the States.

the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 14 April 2013 20:18 (four years ago) Permalink

in a sense, the ac/dc rule is just "big opening sales doesn't mean the artist hasn't already peaked." New Jersey is the award given to the album that achieved big-ass success before everyone realized you'd already peaked.

da croupier, Sunday, 14 April 2013 20:24 (four years ago) Permalink

an example of an artist whose New Jersey and AC/DC rule albums are different - Celine Dion, who only sold one million less worldwide of Let's Talk About Love than Falling Into You, but was undeniably thinner on hits and coasting off Titanic in hindsight. However, her "AC/DC" rule album would be A New Day Has Come, which had huge #1 opening week sales but only sold a third worldwide of what Let's Talk About Love did.