Artists/bands that were once quite popular, yet nowadays are mostly ignored in canonical history books

Wasn't some skiffle band almost as popular as The Beatles in the early 60s?

Tuomas: Great question! I've always wondered about Lloyd; David S. Ware played a composition of his, and ECM still touts him as a heavy hitter, but (and I HATE to admit this) the fact that he's been ignored in histories has maybe kept me back from actually, you know, listening to him.

I think, jazzwise, Yusef Lateef fits here. He got a big push at Atlantic and sold some records, but isn't much discussed historically.

Rock-wise, I've been obsessed with John Otway lately. I was really surprised to hear he'd had a hit in the UK in the late 70s with "Cor Baby, That's Really Free." Hearing that song for the first time last month, I was shocked it hadn't crossed my path earlier. No one knows who he is!

Indeed, he had an even bigger second hit 25 years later with "Bunsen Burner" in which at least one ILxor was directly involved.

In rock I'd say definitely Richie Havens: once upon a time the ubiquitous Voice of Woodstock Nation but no one speaks much of him now.

richie havens used to live near me in the early 90s, he cut quite an impressive figure, still wearing dashikis

add rashaan roland kirk next to chas lloyd on that list

um, "directly" is overstating it: I'm one of the 'crowd' on the b-side, named as such on the sleeve.

Roland Kirk is not exactly ignored, is he? At least I had heard about him before I even started really listening to jazz.

i guess not but I was thinking he's not revered along the lines of Sun Ra, though they were probably equally well known among rok fans in the 70s

What manner of jackass ignores Roland Kirk? I imagine there are a few "crossover" artists - jazz, R&B/soul - who were big in the 60s and 70s but who are ignored now, can't think of one offhand... Lou Rawls maybe? Tryna remember the inner sleeves of 60s records with pictures of Trini Lopez alongside Iron Butterfly alongside Dean Martin alongside Rhinoceros etc etc

Lou Rawls has had a bit of a posthumous comeback thanks to the David Axelrod connection.

Rahsaan definitely NOT forgotten - witness "Hit Me With Your Rhythm Stick" complete with Davey Payne's multi-mouthpiece Kirk tribute at number one! And most honest folk still think Mingus Oh Yeah is Chazz's best (yes, yes, I know, Black Saint, but be truthful; which one are you likely to pull off the shelf more often?).

And The Inflated Tear and Rip Rig & Panic and The Three-Sided Dream Of whatever that berserk but brilliant album was called are absolute classics.

John Handy is another Charles Lloyd in this respect.

Didn't Blood Sweat And Tears sell about 10 million albums around the turn of the 70's, then end up back on the bar circuit 3 or 4 years later? Or are they considered as canonical these days?

David Clayton Thomas plus a few hired hands probably did. The BST horn section were Premier League session guys like Lew Soloff, Dave Bargeron etc. who have never been out of work since.

Thing is, there are a load of artists who were extremely popular but never considered important, even by their contemporaries - anyone who obessively digs in charity shops will know how popular Paul Young, Yazoo, Phil Collins and going back further, Val Doonican and Jim Reeves were, but its doubtful if any critics considered them interesting or important.

What is more interesting is artists who were revered but have sunk into relative obscurity; August Darnell would certainly be one, Dexy's in their various incarnations another; I know both are remembered around here, but they're neither of them featured much in 'rock's rich tapestry' as curated by Mojo/ Uncut etc.

You're slipping, Dingbod:

http://img.tesco.com/pi/entertainment/CD/LF/503122_CD_L_F.jpg

grand funk railroad

(xxpost) You're right about August Darnell and wrong about Dexys

Yazoo were certainly taken very seriously by the music press at the time.

As was Phil Collins up to and including Face Value for that matter.

But how could I forget Garry Bushell's epiphanic five-star rave review of 30 Golden Greats by the George Mitchell Minstrels in the Xmas '77 issue of Sounds?

Graham Parker? Pub Rock in general?

Tom Robinson?

That's why I picked Yusef Lateef instead of Rahsaan Roland Kirk; they both received the same sort of promotion at Atlantic. They were both great. And Lateef appears to be more ignored these days than Kirk.

Tom now resurgent thanks to 6Music and involvement in LMHR.

Graham Parker and Pub Rock in general yes, but Nick Lowe no.

I doubt canonical history is ever much of a guide to what people were actually listening to at the time. I remember looking at a chart from 1967 thinking it would be all psychedelic rock etc and being surprised at how much Dean Martin-esque easy listening was on it. Didn't Engelbert Humperdink outsell the Beatles or something?

If you go a bit beyond the canon, Phil Collins is still played a lot on MOR radio stations.

Thing is, there are a load of artists who were extremely popular but never considered important, even by their contemporaries - anyone who obessively digs in charity shops will know how popular Paul Young, Yazoo, Phil Collins

Yeah, but Paul Young and Phil Collins are still discussed in most histories of 80s pop, even if they weren't considered that important, whereas the book I'm reading is basically the only jazz history where I've read about Charles Lloyd.

I don't know if Lloyd was so much ignored as eclipsed by Keith Jarrett, who went on to greater notoriety with ECM while Lloyd essentially got out of performance for quite awhile.

Went to Russia, didn't he?

http://www.strummernews.com/longpigs3.jpg

Yeah, but Paul Young and Phil Collins are still discussed in most histories of 80s pop, even if they weren't considered that important, whereas the book I'm reading is basically the only jazz history where I've read about Charles Lloyd.

Jazz is not pop. Thus, being popular doesn't necessarily mean anything in jazz while it is kind of impossible of ignore in pop.

Impossible TO ignore, I mean

Went to Russia, didn't he?
Well, that'd do it. The Lloyd/Jarrett dynamic is kind of like the Spencer Davis/Steve Winwood situation, where the supposed sideman turned out to be the star.

Engelbert Humperdinck is a good example of a once-popular artist who is now ignored in the canonical history books, whatever those are. Even among comparable schlagers of the day, it's Tom Jones who continues to resonate. And rightly so -- please god call me home before the Humperdinckian reappraisal takes place.

Um, "Lesbian Seagull"?

(aargh, now posting from beyond the grave)

gay dad
terris

oh wait "popular" ;)

America

James Taylor

Acker Bilk

That's Mister Acker Bilk to you.

The Seekers

Jim Reeves

Anyone hailed as "the new Hendrix" after Hendrix died, viz. Alvin Lee, Robin Trower, Frank Marino.

Ditto, sundry new Dylans

Roy Harper doesn't get spoken of a lot these days - less than Nick Drake or John Martyn, f'rinstance

Three Dog Night

Herman's Hermits for the win.

Humble Pie, Wishbone Ash, Uriah Heep, Greenslade, Curved Air, Focus, Bad Company.

I was listening to Focus just this weekend!

The Judds

Three Dog Night

-- kornrulez6969, Tuesday, May 13, 2008 8:29 AM (35 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

^^^

first thing i thought of when i saw this thread

Lloyd Cole

The Commotions

Deacon Blue

The Judds Good one -- they're like notch-babies, slipping thru between the before and after. They weren't minor artists by any means -- I was reading some mid-80s Country Music mags recently that put their hugeness into perspective. Bet they scored high with Pazz & Jop types, too. Maybe Wynonna's inability to score equally huge solo chipped away at their retroactive cred.

Pie, Ash, Heep, et al -- those groups still get props from hard-heads. More of a cult for that than for comparable pub-rock acts, I'd say.

Paul Anka

Nazareth

Huh, I was listening to Charles Lloyd just last night!

The Kingston Trio were insanely popular from about 1958-62.

I hope the guy above was kidding about Bad Co. Just listen to NYC classic rock radio, and you'll hear them at least 5 times a day.

Mott The Hoople?

No way

Carter the Unstoppable Sex Machine...

Gaye Bykers On Acid
Zodiac Mindwarp

BUT everyone loves Zodie!

Deacon Blue

Deacon Blue were popular, but they weren't popular with the people who write canonical history. kind of like Simply Red.

Suzanne Vega maybe?

Does anyone care about The KLF anymore?

George Michael will soon be an answer to this.

Outhere Brothers, a textbook example here.

Alabama

Moody Blues

everything Felix Pappalardi was involved in

someone mentioned Steve Winwood: Traffic

Dunno that they are ignored. His solo stuff is.

Alfred OTM on Alabama: I have their For The Record: 41 Number One Hits 2-cd set, and if that's right, that's a staggeringly successful run (the Judds had something like 13 straight number ones for comparison). Yet they don't come up much these days.

Lionel Richie also comes to mind here.

Gary Lewis and the Playboys. 17 top 40 hits!

If you listened to the radio, you would think BOC had at most three songs in their catalog, when in reality those songs are not representative of how great they were. So I nominate them.

barbara mandrell

also i think garth brooks has a suprisingly low profile even today considering that he was the most dominant commercial artist of the 1990s...didn't he break some beatles records? but even now it seems like dudes like alan jackson have more cred in country circles.

I think Alan Jackson's continuing productivity gives him more visibility right now than Garth, who mostly keeps putting out greatest hits collections. But still, yeah, Garth is a good pick. Although as we dig into the country crates, we're starting to run up against the fact that the canonical history books we're (sorta) talking about are pretty rock-focused. Because straight-up country canons give Garth a big place still.

The Wonder Stuff

didn't he break some beatles records?

Yes, but only because sales of a box set are counted as the individual CDs in the box. So if his box had 5 discs in it, each disc counted as an individual sale, which artificially raised his sales totals (as was his and his managers' intention, or so I've heard).

Kenny Rogers

Roy Harper doesn't get spoken of a lot these days - less than Nick Drake or John Martyn, f'rinstance

He had a big piece on him in Mojo a couple of months ago.

The Wonder Stuff is the right answer. Same with the Waterboys, Hothouse Flowers, James - it's like an entire genre written out of history.

Garth is the C&W Wonder Stuff. Give 'em time.

The Wonder Stuff is the right answer

Not in the USA. They were totally obscure even in their heyday.

the Stuffies weren't that obscure in the States...Spin magazine loved 'em...

Paul Revere and the Raiders

i remember hearing about ozric tentacles a lot. how big were they in the UK?

Level 42

Modern Talking aka the best selling disco act in the world

the Dave Clark Five are probably the best example. Anyone under 50 will probably think you're talking about the techno guy but apparently they sold almost 200 million records!

the Dave Clark Five are probably the best example.

Having your records being out of print for much of the past 20 or 30 years certainly can cut down your chances of being reappraised.

I've said this before, but, in the UK, Showaddywaddy. Have you heard of them? They had more hits than The Clash!

Position Artist Title Format Date Details
2 Showaddywaddy Hey Rock And Roll Single May 1974
15 Showaddywaddy Rock 'N' Roll Lady Single Aug 1974
13 Showaddywaddy Hey Mister Christmas Single Nov 1974
9 Showaddywaddy Showaddywaddy Album Dec 1974
14 Showaddywaddy Sweet Music Single Feb 1975
2 Showaddywaddy Three Steps To Heaven Single May 1975
7 Showaddywaddy Step Two Album Jul 1975
7 Showaddywaddy Heartbeat Single Sep 1975
34 Showaddywaddy Heavenly Single Nov 1975
32 Showaddywaddy Trocadero Single May 1976
1 Showaddywaddy Under The Moon Of Love Single Nov 1976
4 Showaddywaddy Greatest Hits Album Dec 1976
3 Showaddywaddy When Single Mar 1977
2 Showaddywaddy You Got What It Takes Single Jul 1977
4 Showaddywaddy Dancin' Party Single Nov 1977
20 Showaddywaddy Red Star Album Dec 1977
2 Showaddywaddy I Wonder Why Single Mar 1978
5 Showaddywaddy A Little Bit Of Soap Single Jun 1978
5 Showaddywaddy Pretty Little Angel Eyes Single Nov 1978
1 Showaddywaddy Greatest Hits (1976-1978) Album Dec 1978
17 Showaddywaddy Remember Then Single Mar 1979
15 Showaddywaddy Sweet Little Rock 'N' Roller Single Jul 1979
39 Showaddywaddy A Night At Daddy Gee's Single Nov 1979
8 Showaddywaddy Crepes And Drapes Album Nov 1979
22 Showaddywaddy Why Do Lovers Break Each Other's Hearts Single Sep 1980
32 Showaddywaddy Blue Moon Single Nov 1980 Notes
33 Showaddywaddy Bright Lights Album Dec 1980
39 Showaddywaddy Multiplication Single Jun 1981
33 Showaddywaddy The Very Best Of Showaddywaddy Album Nov 1981
31 Showaddywaddy Footsteps Single Nov 1981
37 Showaddywaddy Who Put The Bomp (In The Bomp-A-Bomp-A-Bomp) Single Aug 1982

(Stealing argument from Elijah Wood in Escaping the Delta):

Leroy Carr

Having your records being out of print for much of the past 20 or 30 years certainly can cut down your chances of being reappraised.

Surely it's the other way round - them not being (re)appraised is the reason why they're out of print.

There was a nineties TV series which had lots of (at the time) rare 60s footage and was supposed to be the definitive take on the decade. It appeared to have the agenda of elevating the Dave Clark Five to the canon. The running order of every show would go something like this: Beatles on Ed Sullivan - Dave Clark Five - Rolling Stones - The Who - Dave Clark Five - The Hollies - Dave Clark Five - Hendrix - Dave Clark Five. End credits: Dave Clark Five. I watched it with my mum and she was scathing, as it had been obvious even to a thirteen-year-old that they were rubbish.

The show was produced by Dave Clark.

Wings. They were huge in the seventies. Who talks about them now?

Both Nik Kershaw and Howard Jones were huge in the 80s and no one even retro-likes them nowdays, which is a bit of a shame.

The Sensational Alex Harvey Band was relatively successful at one point, right?

That TV series mentioned above was "Ready Steady Go", the rights to which had been bought by DaveClarke. There was indeed too much 'DC5' inserted, but hey you can tell the bobbins from the gold.

Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich.

The Sensational Alex Harvey Band was relatively successful at one point, right?

Not ignored by any means.

Melissa Etheridge

George Michael will soon be an answer to this.

Yeah, wouldn't it be more interesting to predict which big contemporary bands will have been written out of history in 20 years, i.e. Muse?

U2, hopefully

Stone Temple Pilots weren't liked, but they were popular, but Scott Weiland's antics effectively made the band obscure.

Barclay James Harvest were actually rather critically acclaimed around 1970-71 at the start of their career.

Both Nik Kershaw and Howard Jones were huge in the 80s and no one even retro-likes them nowdays, which is a bit of a shame.

I loved Howard Jones at the time, and still consider several Kershaw songs brilliant. And as for Jones, his first three singles will always remain classic. "Hide & Seek" in particular.

U2 won't be written out of history - Simple Minds were instead.

Are there other examples of this? Two bands with similar popularity, fanbase and reputation in a fight to the death, the loser slinking off into oblivion. Human League/ABC maybe. Sisters of Mercy/the Mission (both in oblivion, but at least people remember Sisters occasionally).

Hootie and the Blowfish.

The biggest band in America for a year or two. It's a testament to how forgotten they are that it's taken this long for them to get mentioned.

Dave Matthews Band : Name Your Reasons Why They Are So Bad & Hated.
Not all messages are displayed: show all messages (2523 of them)

Having your records being out of print for much of the past 20 or 30 years certainly can cut down your chances of being reappraised.

Surely it's the other way round - them not being (re)appraised is the reason why they're out of print.

No, I thought it was legal problems, like they're simultaneously owned by Allen Klein, Phil Spector and Shel Talmy or something.

Bush.

Two bands with similar popularity, fanbase and reputation in a fight to the death, the loser slinking off into oblivion.

Madonna/Cyndi Lauper

jessie matthews

Obviously people who were around in the early '90s still remember East 17, but I wonder what's their current status in the boy band canon? At the time they were the biggest rivals of Take That, and while not as successful still sold tons of records, but it feels like people nowadays mention only Take That when talking about the era.

Apparently East 17 reunited over 10 year ago, and they still technically exist as a group, but both Brian Harvey and Tim Mortimer have since left it. None of this made the news here in Finland, unlike Take That's much more succesful reunion.

Nobody knew who the other guys in E17 were, so a reunion without them is pointless. 'Stay' is still a staple Christmas radio hit in the UK. I guess Take That had more of a Radio 2 factor and regularly get featured on mum and dad stations, whereas E17 were more faddy and bad-boy so maybe haven't aged as gracefully

Nobody knew who the other guys in E17 were, so a reunion without them is pointless.

Yeah, but apparently Harvey, undoubtedly the main face of the group, was in the reformed group from 2006 to 2010, yet that didn't seem to translate to any kind of success comparable to Take That's reunion.

George Michael will soon be an answer to this.

― Joseph McCombs, Tuesday, May 13, 2008

This has turned out completely opposite.

The US equivalent of East 17 is 98 Degrees, I guess - huge at the time, signed to motown, nick lachey was one half of a stupidly popular reality show marriage, but people only seem to remember NSYNC and BSB now. Does "I do" still get played at weddings?

There are so many of these from the first half of the 20th century, acts who were the biggest in the world at the time.

Like this guy, the Elvis of his day, and the singer of the first song to mention jazz.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0e/ArthurCollins.jpg

Who is he?

Tuomas otm.

Arthur Collins

Ok, dunno if I could name any other ragtime singers either, tho. Is he ignored in histories of early 1900s popular music in the US?

There aren't really many of those, they understandably tend to focus on jazz. Only singers you may have heard of from the era are Enrico Caruso, Bert Williams and Al Jolson, who was around from 1910 or so.

Obviously people who were around in the early '90s still remember East 17

Are the names Billy Murray, Eddie Morton, Ada Jones, Billy Williams or Harry Lauder familiar?

Sorry, should've qualified that as "Europeans". I don't think East 17 made any impression on the other side of the pond?

Xpost

Are the names Billy Murray, Eddie Morton, Ada Jones, Billy Williams or Harry Lauder familiar?

I feel like genres/scenes that have fallen into obscurity as a whole is a somewhat different phenomenon than individual bands becoming forgotten, even if others in the same genre are still remembered.

yeah, maybe that's right. But I feel this is already the not-too-far-off fate of most jazz too. I went to see the new Miles Davis documentary at the cinema last week, think I may have been the only person under 60 there.

Big & Rich

Wings and Stone Temple Pilots seem like interesting answers upthread. I still hear both regularly on rock radio but idk if they get written about much in canonical history books. Neither is obscure, certainly.

Arrested Development? Midnight Oil (in North America)?

Tbh, canonical histories were never meant to reflect contemporary popularity. Selectivity is the whole point of canonization (unless you are asking about history books that are themselves canonical). My answers are more like "artists who were popular and critically feted and are now comparatively ignored in both popular and critical outlets".

Bruce Hornsby once seemed like a pretty big deal.

i just googled Ben Folds because i couldn't remember what he was called

unless you are asking about history books that are themselves canonical

Basically what I meant are history books that are supposed to be fairly comprehensive histories of a certain era/scene, yet they ignore certain artists despite them being popular in that scene/era. I'm not talking about "rock canon" or "jazz canon" type of books, which of course are already quite selective in who they choose to celebrate.

https://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/bruce-hornsby-absolute-zero/

And yeah, Arrested Development is a good pick. Midnight Oil I've never even heard of.

(xpost)

When that Woodstock anniversary hit earlier this year a lot of people poited out what a big (and now mostly forgotten) act Canned Heat was at the time

went to see Violent Femmes open up for Ben Folds (was trying to be open minded and stay for him but then third song was a new comedy song called "Moscow Mitch" and I was like peace out) but anyway he still draws a surprisingly big crowd

tbf me forgetting stuff is no evidence of absence from the public consciousness :D

A housemate had a canned heat best-of cd around the year 2000, it sounded not bad, have realised since that many of their songs are almost note-for-note remakes of old blues records though.

Folds hasn't disappeared at all: https://www.kennedy-center.org/Artist/A56261

I guess the entire once-popular sub-genre of late 60s blues rock has been ground down to a few remembered artists/songs over the decades

I'm pretty sure I still hear "Beds are burning" by Midnight Oil from time to time. I guess they have become a one hit wonder retrospectively (as far as I can remember they were a pretty big deal at the time, though their popularity was before I started paying attention to music).

A very faithful cover of Going up the Country by Canned Heat was used for this UK tv ad a couple of years ago:

http://adturds.co.uk/2018/05/21/robinsons-refreshd-advert-straw-donkeys/robinsons-robinsons-added-a-cover-video-fbdown-net/

Yeah, that was #1 in Canada and is among the first popular songs I can remember being aware of just because it was ubiquitous. "Blue Sky Mine" was top 10 too and I might prefer it. I can't recall hearing either without putting them on myself in a long time but I could be wrong. xp

Canned Heat's "On the Road Again" got regular classic rock play on our local station when I was growing up but not sure about now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=sYy716zmXcM

Billy Squier had some great arena rock songs in the early 80s that still get tons of airplay on classic rock stations. But now he is more well known for the Rock Me Tonight video, widely regarded as the worst music video ever made.

Surely "The Stroke" is better known?

Samantha Fox?

surely "Fix Up Look Sharp" is better known?

Someone mentioned the Waterboys 11 years ago--I just saw a CW show with teens dancing to "This is the Sea"

surely "Fix Up Look Sharp" is better known?

This is not well-known in North America. "99 Problems" otoh

The The - quite popular + VERY critically acclaimed - nowadays i'm not sure many people listen and the press certainly aren't interested.

same for Lloyd Cole? but maybe thats uk specific

When The The played at Heartland festival last year there was a full crowd, and people travelled from far away. I think they're a cult act, but the cult seems aware.

"Beaten Generation" is the only The The song I saw on MTV

Same (well, MuchMusic but). Scanning Wikipedia, it seems like they were a lot bigger in other countries.

Still regularly hear This Is The Day

Paul Revere & the Raiders

Do the Fat Boys get much coverage in history books?

they feature heavily in Piskor's Hop Hop Family Tree

I always think of Cream when these conversations come up. Sure, every boomer still loves Clapton, but it's weird to look back on how huge they were and what a footnote they seem like now.

They're still a classic rock staple, surely? "Sunshine of Your Love" still a guitar lesson favourite ime. I don't know how you could tell the history of heavy rock without touching on them in any case.

What about Grand Funk Railroad. They must have been the hugest rock band in America 1970-1975, but it seems when they're spoken of at all these days it's in relation to their successful approach to marketing, or they're identified as the band with which the proles reclaimed rock from the intellectuals, but you never really hear about how their music fits in.

Do the Fat Boys get much coverage in history books?

weren't they always considered to be a bit of a gimmick?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXKmsvRXE4A

It seems there are quite a few bands who still get played on radio, but critics have little to say about them these days

Maybe. Going by their chart history at Billboard, the Fat Boys had five top 100 albums in the US, including Crushin', which peaked at #8 and stayed on the Hot 200 for 49 weeks; two top 40 singles; and 14 songs that made the hip-hop/R&B chart.

2xp

Pretty much everybody involved in the entire genre of early-to-mid-80s R&B that wasn’t Prince or MJ. We’re talking pre-rap era here. This would be your D-Train, The Jets, The Whispers, Dazz Band, DeBarge, Billy Ocean, Atlantic Starr, Alexander O’Neal, LeVert. Hell I bet even Rick James would’ve faded into obscurity if he hadn’t gotten lucky and had “Super Freak” sampled by MC Hammer.

I feel like Kid Creole and the Coconuts are way way underrated by history. Perhaps they're seen more as a novelty act?

oh wow had no idea. i'd always been under the impression that both the Fat Boys & Kurtis Blow had both peaked early and then gotten increasingly desperate

that said you pretty much never hear Fat Boys anywhere, idk what their most recognizable tune would be nowadays

Fat Boys is a GREAT example.

you never hear about them, but they definitely get appropriately covered in critical/historical retrospectives

I started a little-visited Guy Lombardo thread once, largely for this reason. He hasn't been forgotten but his historical coverage is nowhere near proportionate to his phenomenal contemporary popularity: Guy Lombardo & His Royal Canadians: Classic or Dud?

(I have softened on his music since then.)

Elijah Wald's How the Beatles Destroyed Rock n Roll is good for a lot of these.

Yeah, but apparently Harvey, undoubtedly the main face of the group, was in the reformed group from 2006 to 2010, yet that didn't seem to translate to any kind of success comparable to Take That's reunion.

A few ilx0rs went to see E17 in Australia during the time when Brian Harvey had left and Tony Mortimer was acting as lead singer. The show was a full concert-length PA with no band, and in a kind gesture Mortimer had allowed the two dancers to write & perform their first song. This is presumably what emboldened them to carry on without either a singer or songwriter when he realised the whole thing was going nowhere.

Midnight Oil (in North America)?

They reformed in 2017 after 15 years and

Sat 6 May Center Stage | Atlanta, GA
Sun 7 May Beale Street Music Festival | Memphis, TN
Tue 9 May The Filmore | Silver Spring, MD
Thu 11 May House of Blues | Boston, MA
Sat 13 May Webster Hall | New York City, NY
Sun 14 May Webster Hall | New York City, NY
Tue 16 May Keswick Theatre | Glenside, PA
Thu 18 May The Vic | Chicago, IL
Sat 20 May Danforth Music Hall | Toronto, Canada
Tue 23 May Paramount Theatre | Denver, CO
Thu 25 May The Wiltern | Los Angeles, CA
Sat 27 May Fox Theater | Oakland, CA
Mon 29 May Revolution Hall | Portland, OR
Wed 31 May Moore Theatre | Seattle, WA
Fri 2 June Malkin Bowl | Vancouver, Canada (19+)


Midnight Oil I've never even heard of.

this one checks out tbh

Wed 21 June E-Werk | Cologne, Germany
Fri 23 June Paradiso | Amsterdam, Holland
Sun 25 June Huxleys Neue Welt | Berlin, Germany
Tue 27 June Amager Bio | Copenhagen, Denmark
Thu 29 June Rockafeller Music Hall | Oslo, Norway
Sat 1 July Furuviksparken | Gävle, Sweden
Tue 4 July Hammersmith Eventim Apollo | London, UK
Thu 6 July Olympia | Paris, France
Fri 7 July Festival de Beauregard | HÉROUVILLE-Saint-Claire, France
Sun 9 July Les Deferlantes Festival | Argeles-sur-Mer, France
Wed 12 July Volkshaus | Zurich, Switzerland
Fri 14 July Musilac | Aix Les Bains, France
Sun 16 July Les Vieilles Charrues | Carhaix, France
Tue 18 July Batschkapp | Frankfurt, Germany
Wed 19 July Le Paléo Festival Nyon Music Festival | Nyon, Switzerland
Fri 21 July Colours of Ostrava | Ostrava, Czech Republic
Sun 23 July Hammersmith Eventim Apollo | London, UK
Tue 25 July Olympia | Paris, France

I think the entire wave of 1984-1985 hip-hop gets unjustly ignored just because the Sugar Hill story and the Def Jam story on either side take up so much air

Whodini, UTFO, Fat Boys, Kurtis Blow, Jeckyll & Hyde, Grandmixer DST and the Celluloid Records axis, Doug E. Fresh, Boogie Boys, Whistle, Word of Mouth...

Kurtis Blow on tour with The Hip-Hop Nutcracker right now

(Whodini is out with Slick Rick, Big Daddy Kane and Nice & Smooth, which gets like three mini-generations of nostalgia listeners at once)

also Midnight Oil did a second US/.ca leg of their sexagenarian reunion tour

Sat 19 Aug The Greek | Los Angeles, CA
Mon 21 Aug Terminal 5 | New York, NY
Wed 23 Aug Place Des Arts | Montreal, QC
Fri 25 Aug Budweiser Stage | Toronto, ON
Sun 27 Aug House of Blues | Cleveland, OH
Tue 29 Aug First Avenue | Minneapolis, MN

the Sugar Hill story and the Def Jam story on either side take up so much air

this sounds right to me too. There's no clear narrative or big heroes/villains in that intervening period, it feels like a bunch of disconnected stuff, lots of "novelty" records etc.

Playing big venues on a reunion tour doesn't necessarily mean that a band gets significant coverage in historical/critical writing or that they are exposed often to people who weren't around for the band's initial wavw of popularity but I am not sure about Midnight Oil.

Like, they were far more popular in their time than Jane's Addiction, Husker Du, or Sonic Youth but the latter kind of 'modern rock' bands became more influential on the direction in which alternative rock went and so are usually treated as more historically important. Nor did Midnight Oil persist as stadium rock stars in the 90s on this continent like REM and U2 did.

Were they ever stadium rock stars?

Midnight Oil were a big alternative band in the late 80s in the USA. I saw them on that tour, they played the Felt Forum at Madison Square Garden, which seated a couple thousand.

Fine Young Cannibals seem to fit the criteria for this thread.

far more popular in their time than Jane's Addiction, Husker Du, or Sonic Youth but the latter kind of 'modern rock' bands became more influential on the direction in which alternative rock went

btw

1) alternative rock is always more likely to be obviously influential on alternative rock than mainstream rock is
2) each of Janes (original lineup), Husker and (1980s) SY records sound fairly identifiably like their others, allowing for a focus on influence. Blue Sky Mining sounds like a boring mersh version of Diesel And Dust, but Diesel doesn’t sound like Red Sails or the blue meanie or Earth & Sun & Moon or Redneck Wonderland, which also don’t sound similarly like each other
3) there’s a p obvious reason why canonical North American rock history wouldn’t credit Midnight Oil as influencing North American alt-rock even if they had had such an influence, which they didn’t. Mark Arm is STILL explaining in interviews in 2019 that Mudhoney didn’t invent grunge, that they were trying to sound like [lists Australian bands, takes the Scientists on tour as opener]

Jane’s Addiction were more popular than Midnight Oil. Didn’t have a crossover hit, but, def sold more records in the US.

1) alternative rock is always more likely to be obviously influential on alternative rock than mainstream rock is

Yes, but my point is that Midnight Oil was considered "alternative rock" in North America the late 80s/early 90s. They were on Billboard's alternative songs chart from the first year they ever published the chart: https://www.billboard.com/music/midnight-oil/chart-history/MRT . The heavier bands we're talking about were also considered alternative rock, although they were less popular, but their version is the one that became more influential on 90s alternative rock and thus they are accorded more historical significance. I like Midnight Oil's singles a fair bit btw!

I don't think that was true about Jane's at the time that Diesel and Dust and Nothing's Shocking were roughly contemporary?

Ahh. I was talking about at their height.

What about stuff like Technotronic and Snap? This stuff felt new and important at the time, though I was 12-13 at the time and had a pretty limited view of what music was. Seems to have been mostly forgotten by the mid 90s.

Downgraded by rockist canon for being artificial / non-auteurist, both also had consistency issues during their peaks with fake frontwomen and repeated legal disputes with their regular vocalists.

Also, neither act was designing their music with longevity or legacy in mind.

the Sugar Hill story and the Def Jam story on either side take up so much air

could throw Grandmaster Flash & the Furious Five in here too, it involves a lot of the same people and has a big "what could have been" aspect to it

“The Sugarhill Gang” were on Kimmel (‘s youtube channel the morning after) the other night. They consisted of Melle Mel, Scorpio, Wonder Mike and Master Gee, plus a guy called Diggity Dog who changed Big Bank Hank’s line’s to award himself Grandmaster Caz’s writing credit and update the “more clothes than Muhammad Ali” line right up to 1997 by making it Puff Daddy, plus a backing-track-cue-er plus two other guys waving and clapping on the DJ stand, who I’m guessing are grandsons of Sylvia Robinson or finance bros that bought the name, or something.

What about stuff like Technotronic and Snap? This stuff felt new and important at the time, though I was 12-13 at the time and had a pretty limited view of what music was. Seems to have been mostly forgotten by the mid 90s.

(Technotronic also great obv, but I need less reminding of that)

I was very surprised to learn how many hits Boney M had, for how little they are discussed today

Update: yes, those Snap! hits hold up (“Do You See The Light? (Looking For)”!), and wow, their 2005 comeback non-hit “Beauty Queen” that I only remember ever hearing in our local cruising bar is ridiculously awesome too - what a chorus!

xp

“The Sugarhill Gang” were on Kimmel (‘s youtube channel the morning after) the other night. They consisted of Melle Mel, Scorpio, Wonder Mike and Master Gee, plus a guy called Diggity Dog who changed Big Bank Hank’s line’s to award himself Grandmaster Caz’s writing credit and update the “more clothes than Muhammad Ali” line right up to 1997 by making it Puff Daddy, plus a backing-track-cue-er plus two other guys waving and clapping on the DJ stand, who I’m guessing are grandsons of Sylvia Robinson or finance bros that bought the name, or something.

the Grandmaster/Furious Five lineage is seriously confusing, as far as I can tell Grandmaster Flash & Melle Mel had a major falling out but kept titling their records to imply that the other one was on it, despite constantly ripping each other in public. sucks cuz outside of a few singles like "White Lines" neither of them produced anything that even touched the first LP and I think Sugarhill Records wound up ripping everyone off. a couple years ago some of the original gang tried to re-release "The Message" as a shot at Flash but it came off really desperate

long story short is that Flash wanted to get out from Sylvia Robinson's thumb, the rest didn't. The one thing Flash managed to retain the rights to in the resulting court case was his own name.

Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five were never really an "album" group, all their best stuff was singles.

yeah I guess when I say "first LP" I just mean that 79-82 period. always think of The Message LP as more of a compilation really

and of course Flash isn't on "White Lines" or "The Message". His most canonical recorded work is "The Adventures of Grandmaster Flash on the Wheels of Steel".

xps

IMO Technotronic and Snap! are among the best remembered Eurodance acts of the '90s, alongside U96, Ace of Base, Haddaway, Aqua, and 2 Unlimited. There were many other acts with multiple hits who are not really talked about much today, such as MC Sar & The Real McCoy, Culture Beat, Dr. Alban, Twenty 4 Seven, Basic Element, Cappella, Urban Cookie Collective, Captain Hollywood Project, E-Rotic, DJ Bobo, Leila K, Double You, Masterboy, E-Type, Loft, etc.

some thoughts:

1. jane's addiction never made a wholly front to back GREAT full length album. midnight oil made a few. anybody talking trash on blue sky mining has clearly not listened to it in full. seriously, go back to it: it's a really solid record. it's also a regional thing with them; they were rather popular in australia and remain so. i've heard them legitimately described as the "australian u2" on many occasions.

2. the one thing that sticks out for me in this category is no limit records. that stuff was everywhere in the late 90s. now though, most of those guys are considered a punchline, if they're even considered at all.

3. where does someone like tracy chapman fall in this? she was quite popular in her day, no? i know 'gimme one reason' and 'fast car' still get radio play, but no big critical reassessment / appreciation seems to be on the horizon.

also, holy shit tuomas!!

Captain Hollywood Project

i had 'more and more' on 45! always had it cued up with the 45 for mc hammer 'addams' groove' right after.

ahem

https://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/tracy-chapman-tracy-chapman/

IMO Technotronic and Snap! are among the best remembered Eurodance acts of the '90s, alongside U96, Ace of Base, Haddaway, Aqua, and 2 Unlimited. There were many other acts with multiple hits who are not really talked about much today, such as MC Sar & The Real McCoy, Culture Beat, Dr. Alban, Twenty 4 Seven, Basic Element, Cappella, Urban Cookie Collective, Captain Hollywood Project, E-Rotic, DJ Bobo, Leila K, Double You, Masterboy, E-Type, Loft, etc.

― Tuomas, Monday, October 28, 2019 2:36 PM (six minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

this is a good list to spotify with.

long story short is that Flash wanted to get out from Sylvia Robinson's thumb, the rest didn't. The one thing Flash managed to retain the rights to in the resulting court case was his own name.

xp don't forget Ice MC!

I thought about him, but he was more of one-hit wonder, no? With one big hit and one minor follow-up? It's not that weird for one-hit wonders to be forgotten.

My sound of 1989 = Leila K, Technotronic, Neneh Cherry, Silver Bullet, Black Box

The Message was released as the extremely dodgy “Grand Master Flash & The Furious Five”, rather than Grandmaster

anybody talking trash on blue sky mining has clearly not listened to it in full. seriously, go back to it: i

I listened in full lots when it came out, because I probably had 15 tapes total, and got off the bus - 10 to 1, Red Sails and Species Deceases were what I dug most about them. At the secret 2005 reunion show in a leagues club they played a bunch of it & the songs killed tbf

ahem
https://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/tracy-chapman-tracy-chapman/
― Οὖτις, Monday, October 28, 2019 2:42 PM

ahh. welp. i don't read that garbage pile regularly, so that figures.

Wait is Black Box forgotten? Because that was definitely the sound of 1990 where I was.

Black Box better remembered than their other aliases #justice4starlight

Black Box are better-remembered than many - otoh Silver Bullet need recognition

I still have my black box cassette somewhere. l don't really remember what was on it apart from everybody everybody though

Manfred Mann

Barbra Streisand

I have not forgotten these cheesy early 90s eurodance acts because they were my lifeblood til I hit about 14 or 15 and started hating things

I guess the entire once-popular sub-genre of late 60s blues rock has been ground down to a few remembered artists/songs over the decades

― Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes)

that's because it all fucking sounds the same!

The Kingston Trio

Joan Armatrading is a good example, I think: very popular in the 70s and 80s, but now almost completely written out of history.

No star image at all, but very much recognised by other musicians for establishing control over all aspects of her music. The recent BBC documentary about her did a good job of telling her story. "I'm doing everything. When I do it, I'm a control freak. When Prince does it, he's a genius."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrGYaRxcsoA

I wonder if the Kingston Trio is a good example or not. They were derided by contemporary critics for bringing a pop sensibility to the folk repertoire, while historians recognize their influential role in popularizing the genre & paving the way for Dylan and the folk-rock explosion. Seems about right to me. I guess they might be eligible for a poptimist reappraisal, altho their appropriation and whitewashing of tunes from various traditions would remain, ah, problematic within that frame.

Armatrading, Chapman, Etheridge seem like excellent examples.

Kingston Trio were covered in any pop history textbook I ever used tbh, in the way you describe.

I kind of want to say The Charlatans a little bit. I mean, they headlined Reading in the late 90s which is no mean feat, but they've always been seen as second-tier also-rans, somewhere between Britpop and baggy but never as revered as the Stone Roses or Oasis

Some are mentioned in the thread already, but there's a whole class of classic rock era US bands that ended up without much of a legacy despite the steady hits - Lovin' Spoonful, Grass Roots, Three Dog Night, Blood Sweat and Tears. Similar bands who've kept listeners could rock harder, like Creedence, or drone more, like The Byrds. There's a folky squareness, emphasizing harmony over riffing, that relegates them to oldies radio.

What about Triumph? Based on Wikipedia, 1 platinum and 3 gold records in the US; 3 platinum or multiplatinum + 5 gold records in Canada; still a classic rock radio staple in Canada at least. I'm not sure they get much ink in history books at all (probably bc they were relatively generic - don't tell their fans).

(That said, "Midsummer's Daydream" 4eva)

Man, "Magic Power" earwormed into my waking mind the other morning, after decades of forgetting it's existence, and that song is a rabbit foot keychain hanging out Camero ignition.

Early 90s UK post-baggy pre-britpop indie seems to exist only as nostalgia for those who were actually there, have a look at who was on the cover of the NME in 1991-1993

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NME_covers

Though of course The Wonderstuff / Cud / PWEI / Kingmaker / Carter USM / Mega City Four / Neds Atomic Dustbin never really sold that many records even at the time either.

Lene Lovich.

90s-era indie owns this thread:

Tsunami
Blonde Redhead
Son Volt
Unrest
Adam Green / Kimya Dawson
Grifters
Pedro The Lion
Jon Spencer
East River Pipe
etc
Jawbox

I think Son Volt's Trace is still pretty big in the Americana world

but yeah, most of those groups felt 3rd tier at the time and never all that popular

except for JSBE, who were inexplicably a huge deal in Tucson when I growing up

REO Speedwagon isn't entirely forgotten but Hi Infidelity is a Diamond (10 million) album, I was surprised to learn that the other day on wiki

Paul - I know what you mean about 90s indie being pretty low right now but I mean like .000000000000001 of ppl knew who the Grifters were at their peak

Delaney and Bonnie? I have no idea how popular they were (wiki suggests not very), but you always hear the name in docs about the late '60s scene, so they must have held at least a little sway.

Georgie Fame

He had three UK #1 singles in the middle of the sixties. Three!

With those 90s Indie and Americana bands there did seem to be a tacit assumption that “we may not be big now, but like the Velvets or Gram Parsons someday we’ll get our due”

Delaney and Bonnie seem to be remembered mostly for touring with Clapton as a sideman. Bonnie Raitt would probably be on the same level if not for her comeback.

Some people mentioned 1989 upthread. I'm old enough to remember 1989 and Soul II Soul were absolutely HUGE that year. Nobody ever mentions them now, even though those first few singles still sound great today.

Delaney and Bonnie still get footnote status thanks to all their "Friends" and said "Friends" connections to important/historical artists and albums (Layla, All Things Must Pass, Mad Dogs & Englishmen, Leon Russell in general...)

I've read that Delaney was difficult to work with for whatever reason.

Ha, I thought of mentioning Soul II Soul along with Arrested Development. "Back to Life" is the only thing I remember tbh but it was classic.

oh shit, perfect one: ALABAMA
they were so huge growing up, but I think they kind of invented the modern template for country then got replaced by the ones that came after like Garth, etc

Snap! and 2 Unlimited had a long run of worldwide hits, but have been mostly written out the canon to cater for the ubiquitous 90s narrative of grunge, 'golden age' rap, and more fashionable techno producers like Aphex Twin, The Prodigy, Autechre, Orbital, Underworld, Basic Channel etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_music_artists

I know the name Neil Diamond but I don't know what his music sounds like.

The Fine Young Cannibals. Any other old people remember them? They were enormous for a year in the US.

Where do you live? "Sweet Caroline" has definitely not been forgotten in the US. xp

Not sure re his place in history books. He comes up a couple of times in Covach's What's That Sound?, although not in great depth.

FYC were mentioned upthread and are probably a good answer, though idk if bands that were big for a year should be expected to get much coverage in history books.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweet_Caroline#Use_at_sporting_events

These artists could be quantified up until the iPod era by tallying what is left behind in thrift shops. A lot of Alabama, a lot of Neil Diamond for sure.

Neil Diamond is still huge as fuck

I know the name Neil Diamond but I don't know what his music sounds like.

Aside from the baseball-ubiquitous Sweet Caroline, Diamond wrote I'm a Believer (The Monkees), Red Red Wine (UB40), Girl You'll Be a Woman Soon (Urge Overkill)... even Elvis covered And the Grass Won't Pay No Mind

Neil Diamond Musical Headed to Broadway

Biographical show will be written by Bohemian Rhapsody scribe Anthony McCarten, directed by Tony-winner Michael Mayer

his career is something of an outlier but yeah he is hardly forgotten or ignored - as noted he's connected to too ubiquitous hits to just be ignored by history books.

too many ubiquitous

I'm in Canada. I just listened to Sweet Caroline. No, I don't remember hearing this.

His biggest hits in Canada were Cracklin' Rosie (a much better song than Sweet Caroline), Song Sung Blue, and... (ugh) Heartlight, the ET song.

I thought Canadians would know him--Robbie Robertson produced one of his albums after all

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuTQwN8QhqY

Diamond is a truly strange dude

I mean, he starred in a 70s remake of the Jazz Singer for chrissakes

classic for the scene where some LA punk band does a thrashy cover of Love on the Rocks and Diamond is visibly appalled

haha yeah! one among many wtf moments

Moody Blues seem a classic example of this. Between 1968-1972 they had 6 top 5 UK albums (3 of which went to #1), plus big success in the US and elsewhere. Nowadays they're remembered only for Nights In White Satin and maybe Go Now - all the orchestral concept albums are largely forgotten other than by the proprietors of charity shops, with good reason tbh.

Speaking of country, unless I missed it, Crystal Gayle was not mentioned in the Ken Burns doc except once when Loretta Lynn said something in passing about "my sister Crystal." But I remember her being huge in the late '70s/early '80s with several big crossover hits and frequent network TV appearances. And looking at her singles discography I count 30 Country Top Ten hits including sixteen #1s. I understand the constraints Ken Burns was dealing with, but have to wonder if the omission reflected something about country music canonical history (admittedly a subject I know little about).

Some people mentioned 1989 upthread. I'm old enough to remember 1989 and Soul II Soul were absolutely HUGE that year. Nobody ever mentions them now, even though those first few singles still sound great today.
― does it look like i'm here (jon123), Tuesday, October 29, 2019

have been jammin` vol. ii the past couple weeks pretty hard. those first two albums are absolute classics.

anyway, back on topic — what about the 'walking in memphis' guy? didn't he win a bunch of awards and stuff? and then he was just there and nobody cared anymore. kind of the bruce hornsby avenue i guess.

(also: jesus christ that's such boring music)

Alabama? Let's talk about Oak Ridge Boys.

oom papa mow mow

for Moody Blues I always think of the reunion stuff like "The Voice" or "Wildest Dreams"

soul ii soul actually seem really important in the history of black music in the uk tbh

I'm sure Alabama and Oak Ridge Boys can still pack a county fair

I'm in Canada. I just listened to Sweet Caroline. No, I don't remember hearing this.

Ha, there's a reason I said "in the US". I don't hear this song much in Canada but ime it inspired mass singalongs any time it came on in Buffalo.

Moody Blues get mentioned in any history of prog rock, surely?

Yeah but outside of the prog niche they're pretty much thought of as a one hit wonder, I'd guess? Even prog fans don't exactly talk about Seventh Sojourn the way they talk about Foxtrot or Aqualung.

That doesn’t seem right
I can think of a number of Moody Blues classic rock standards aside from Satin.

I'm in Canada. I just listened to Sweet Caroline. No, I don't remember hearing this.
Ha, there's a reason I said "in the US". I don't hear this song much in Canada but ime it inspired mass singalongs any time it came on in Buffalo.

― No language just sound (Sund4r), Tuesday, October 29, 2019 9:52 AM (twenty-four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I've sang forever in blue jeans at karaoke in esquimalt bc from a karaoke book that had about 10 neil diamond songs in it so I'm not sure he's obscure in the great white north

Yeah, no, he's not obscure at all; it's just that "Sweet Caroline" is everywhere in the US.

yeah, re Moody Blues: Tuesday Afternoon and Ride My See-Saw turn up on satellite radio

With "classic rock" radio focusing more on Def Leppard, Bon Jovi, and Stone Temple Pilots, the Moody Blues were one of the first casualties of playlist turnover. Not enough guitars, too many spoken-word bits, and their songs are too long and proggy for "oldies" stations.

I have no idea what are canonical history books about pop music, but it seems like no one talks about the Rascals anymore. When I was a kid their songs were canon on oldies radio, but that was a long time ago.

I'm from Finland and I couldn't name or hum any Neil Diamond songs either, though I do know he's apparently big in the States, and obviously I'm familiar with the songs written for other artists F. Hazel mentioned... Though I didn't know they were all written by the same guy until now.

Just listened to ‘Sweet Caroline’, didn’t ring a bell.

"Solitary Man" has been covered a bunch of times too.

Neil Diamond was my first concert, I was eight

xpost--in fact Johnny Cash used it for an album title American Recordings III: Solitary Man

Sweet Caroline is a massive cliche as far as covers/karaoke/bar songs, almost approaches Don't Stop Believin' levels.

That said I don't remember hearing him a ton growing up -- I knew America and I think maybe Cherry Cherry. Maybe because he wasn't really a classic rock radio format guy but also wasn't old enough yet for "oldies" at the time. I heard the UO cover of Girl You'll Be a Woman Soon (Pulp Fiction soundtrack) before I heard the original.

oh I also weirdly watched his jazz singer remake in a hebrew school class, I guess bc it addresses themes of assimilation and identity?

I actually had no idea Crystal Gayle and Loretta Lynn were sisters

Tap Root Manuscript is the sixth studio album by Neil Diamond, released in 1970. It was one of the most experimental albums he ever recorded, featuring prominent African sounds and instruments. The album ended up being a commercial success, with a string of top 40 hits. This album predates many Western artists' interest in world music by more than a decade, from Peter Gabriel's 1980's solo albums, to My Life in the Bush of Ghosts (David Byrne with Brian Eno) in 1981, to the Graceland album recorded by Paul Simon in 1986. It was one of the most novel experimental recording projects of its time, and the Uni label initially was not sure whether it would be commercially viable.

oh how much i envy being totally ignorant of neil diamond.

Diamond's sad boner aura is corny, but not quite corny enough to transcend generations like a Tom Jones or Tony Bennett or Leonard Cohen. He's big, but he's a you-had-to-be-there artist. "You had to be there" is another way of thinking about the thread premise, I suppose. You certainly had to be there for Urge Overkill's ersatz-Diamond thing.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41A43BVWYAL.jpg

And Diamond the Brill Building songwriter is a different thing from Diamond the chest-hair avatar.

Neil Diamond still huge in the lowlands tbf. Buffet seems a much better "he's only big in USA" pick to me.

I think Neil Diamond was best known in the UK for the Jazz Singer soundtrack album, a charity shop staple to the present day.

Buffet is someone I had no idea even existed until I got to college. He has a weird and devoted subculture around him.

well, he's a weird guy

In addition to Crystal Gayle (who I agree was ubiquitous at a certain point, the Solid Gold era?)I am here to nominate JUICE NEWTON, also of that era.

In spite of her fun and occasionally bombastic hits Angel of the Morning, Love's Been a Little Bit Hard on Me, Queen of Hearts, Heart of the Night -- where is Juice Newton?

Also, like Crystal Gayle, she had suuuuuper long abundant hair

I cannot say why Juice is overlooked but "Love's Been a Little Bit Hard on Me" is a great song, and def edges "Angel of the Morning."

soft rockers and country poppers having a hard time of it: Dan Fogelberg, Barbara Mandrell, Harry Chapin

all of her singles that i've heard are great!! if you don't know Heart of the NIght (I didn't, heard it on the radio recently) it's really great! I love her voice too. I loved her as a wee little tot and still do!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1VAMl9dA64

sad boner aura

lmao this is so otm

the chorus is particularly good imo

obviously I'm familiar with the songs written for other artists F. Hazel mentioned...

I’m A Believer was written for the Monkees, the others are covers of songs Diamond recorded himself

Ah, okay. Well, "I'm a Believer" obviously is awesome, but I dunno if being responsible for a creepy grooming anthem like "Girl, You'll Be a Woman Soon" is a big merit...

Deep Purple also covered "Kentucky Woman".

I do feel like most people in the US bellowing along to "Sweet Caroline" probably couldn't name/don't care about the other hits?

Although, here in the Twin Cities, Martin Zellar of The Geardaddies used to do (maybe still does) a Neil Diamond tribute show that used to pack 'em in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoYfgFfh1c0

Neil Diamond was all over "adult contemporary"/"soft rock" radio in the 70s/80s (along with aforementioned Dan Fogelburp, Juice Newton, Streisand, Mandrell, Barry Manilow etc.) My mom had that shit on all the time.

and then he had his big soundtrack moments - "Coming to America", that ET song

Sweet Caroline is by far his most popular song on Spotify (214 million) but Forever in Blue Jeans (26,193,639) and Cracklin' Rosie (26,554,366) are pretty big too.

In addition to Crystal Gayle (who I agree was ubiquitous at a certain point, the Solid Gold era?)I am here to nominate JUICE NEWTON, also of that era.

In spite of her fun and occasionally bombastic hits Angel of the Morning, Love's Been a Little Bit Hard on Me, Queen of Hearts, Heart of the Night -- where is Juice Newton?

― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Tuesday, October 29, 2019 1:44 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

Also, like Crystal Gayle, she had suuuuuper long abundant hair

― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Tuesday, October 29, 2019 1:44 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

OMG, when I was like 4 or 5 years old I was obsessed with both Solid Gold and Crystal Gale. I think I had a slight crush on her because she looks a little like my mom.

Diamonds "America" was Michael Dukakis' theme song lol

xps

the saddest of boners
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6e/Hot_august_night.jpg

one time i saw ween and a neil diamond show was going on in the adjacent arena. that's all i have to say other than that the post-show exodus was interesting

xpost--in fact Johnny Cash used it for an album title American Recordings III: Solitary Man

― Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Tuesday, October 29, 2019 5:46 PM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Oh this has reminded me that Diamond did a couple of Rick Rubin-produced albums of his own in the 2000s and from what I can remember they were pretty heavily promoted as a big, serious comeback. Radio 2 played the single ('Pretty Amazing Grace') from the second one a lot, it wasn't a hit but the album made #1.

Jeez, such hate.

Y'all need to turn on your heart light.

this Rolling Stone review of Tap Root Manuscript is uh worth reading:

Side Two is the Artistry, open to question. This is The African Trilogy (a folk ballet). It's a varied and ambitious work. Here is the written introduction:

"When rhythm and blues lost its sensuality for me I fell in love with a woman named gospel. We met secretly in the churches of Harlem and made love at revival meetings in Mississippi.

"And loving her as I did. I found a great yearning to know her roots. And I found them. And they were in Africa. And they left me breathless.

"The African triology is an attempt to convey my passion for the folk music of that black continent."

I know you're laughing. The strange thing is, it's not that bad a piece of music. It's certainly far less pretentious than its introduction. The worst of it has been identified as: "wimoweh" off-key, the "Missa Luba" by Doc Severinsen, or the sound track to Elephant Walk. In its better parts, though, it's quite charming children's chorus, interpretations of African music and the like. The only trouble is, I haven't any idea who would want to listen to it. Certainly not the audience he has. No one interested in African ballet. Freaks leave the room when it's on. But then again the Moody Blues got rich off stuff that's sillier than this. If somebody gives you a copy, listen to it, but I wouldn't recommend your blowing your dope money on it.

(with extra Moody Blues reference!)

Hate for?

Neil Diamond is well loved still, I don't see much hate here either.

xp

I wish to made it known for the record that I hate Neil Diamond

I don't hate him, he has a great voice and a handful of great songs. I don't really love him either though, I mean he isn't really worth taking seriously. He is seriously weird/fascinating though.

'Seriously weird/fascinating' is worth taking him seriously imo. He's got a lot of deep cuts, too. This might be a geographical diff as well, where Sweet Caroline still blasts in baseball stadium USA-wide, but you'd be surprised how many people o'er here own a copy of Jonathan Livingston Seagull, to name but one.

I found more than enough oddities in his seventies catalog to assemble a playlist, and the 2005 Rubin-produced album, it pains me to say, is rather good.

guys, remember this album?

i was working at tower records at the time and had to hear it in the store at least twice daily.

xpost to alfred!

i though it was horrible, but i'm biased because neil diamond is thoroughly terrible.

I don't like Neil Diamond, but I recognize that he's good at what he does.

My nominee for this thread is Tom Jones. Big hits once upon a time, had a kitsch moment in the 90s, now forgotten, and/but the three albums he did in the 2010s are fucking great. Rubin-esque (one is all gospel songs) without Rubin.

what about paul anka? he's one of those guys, isn't he?

Tom Jones is minor royalty in the UK, probably not so much in the US though

Ha, there is a street named after Paul Anka in Ottawa. He definitely gets covered in any history of pop music in Canada.

lol my first exposure to Tom Jones was his cover of Prince's "Kiss" with Art of Noise

In the 60s/70s Neil Diamond had classic pop songs just falling out of his pockets as he walked down the street.

Yeah, come on, Jewish Elvis does not belong in this thread.

The The - quite popular + VERY critically acclaimed - nowadays i'm not sure many people listen and the press certainly aren't interested.
― Hmmmmm (jamiesummerz),

see recent(ish) massive sell out UK gigs etc.
UK press were very interested, however, Matt hates playing the media game.
can i suggest that Dire Straits be added to this thread ?
massively popular across the planet, and yet, very little love for them these days.

lol waht have you heard a War on Drugs record

Neil Diamond Is Undeniably The Greatest Showman Of All Time. “Soolaimón” is one of Neil’s most unforgettable tracks. It has stood the test of time and still continues to be among his greatest hits. It was a staple in most of his concerts or any live performance. In fact, he would often sing it for the opening.

https://societyofrock.com/neil-diamond-soolaimon-live-2/

Well, thanks thread for getting me to listen to "Soolaimon" for the first time since probably junior high school.

re Dire Straits/War on Drugs : no, but from what i have read here, touche.
that said, the source band have not been given any real love.

xpost.

Tom Jones has always been both huge and kitsch

one time i saw ween and a neil diamond show was going on in the adjacent arena. that's all i have to say other than that the post-show exodus was interesting

Neil Diamond would be a good opener for Ween tbh

and Freeman for Diamond!

King Diamond > Neil Diamond

you'd be surprised how many people o'er here own a copy of Jonathan Livingston Seagull, to name but one.
― Le Bateau Ivre, dinsdag 29 oktober 2019 21:15

+1 for growing up in Dutch households with the Jonathan Livingston Seagull soundtrack. Also, Beautiful Noise.

I have professed my love of “Longfellow Serenade” on this board more than once, but it’s taken me until now to realize he should have named the song “Sad Boner Symphony”. Kudos, bendy!

did you guys know that Asia's self-titled debut sold 4 million copies in the United States alone and around 10 million worldwide?

i actually have a copy here, given to me by a friend. happy birthday i guess.

Lindisfarne were, very briefly, the biggest-selling band in Britain, but I only know of them from Paul Gascoigne's cover of "Fog on the Tyne", which got to number two back in October 1990.

The entire folk-rock movement that followed, with bands like Steeleye Span and Renaissance etc, died a death, and I don't think I've ever read a long-form article on the subject. It didn't seem to be restricted to rock music - Jon Pertwee's Doctor Who adventure "The Daemons" was broadcast in 1971 and has people dancing around a maypole, and of course The Wicker Man came out in 1973. Why did British people in the early 1970s suddenly develop an interest in folk music? Future shock, economic malaise, nostalgia, or what?

Also, and this is more vague, there's a certain kind of boogie-woogie blues sound that was prevalent in British rock music in the 1970s but largely killed off by punk and synthpop. You know how Thin Lizzy sounds bluesy, but Depeche Mode doesn't? I don't know enough about music theory to write about the difference, but there's a lot of 1970s rock music that just sounds millions of years old to my ears.

blues as a genre has had a tough go of it over the past couple decades. there was a period where there'd be some new post-SRV guitar heroes, or young acoustic blues guys, or a crop of old-school west side blues-style players who'd make a comeback, but it seems pretty dead these days at least beyond the local scenes. I know some blues guys in Chicago who make a very good living playing around town but anything bluesy seems to be DOA.

i still hear elements of blues in some music...i mean obviously it's not gone. it's just so diminished. wouldn't be surprised if 25 yrs later From the Cradle is still one of the top selling current blues albums out there.

lol my first exposure to Tom Jones was his cover of Prince's "Kiss" with Art of Noise

― Οὖτις, Tuesday, October 29, 2019 4:51 PM

same

"rap music that reminds me of the blues" is very popular still, and talking about it in the abstract critically approved although I also suspect a lot of the bluesier rap (yfn lucci, durk, roddy ricch, lil baby) is more tolerated by critics than listened to

Wait war on drugs sound like dire straits??? Do they have sweet solos? The stuff I heard sounded like Born In The USA or maybe Brothers In Arms if, like, it was made by non-virtuosos

i guess you could say post malone is pretty eric clapton-ish in this way xp

The entire folk-rock movement that followed, with bands like Steeleye Span and Renaissance etc, died a death, and I don't think I've ever read a long-form article on the subject. It didn't seem to be restricted to rock music - Jon Pertwee's Doctor Who adventure "The Daemons" was broadcast in 1971 and has people dancing around a maypole, and of course The Wicker Man came out in 1973. Why did British people in the early 1970s suddenly develop an interest in folk music? Future shock, economic malaise, nostalgia, or what?

Former Wire editor Rob Young wrote an excellent book on this subject, Electric Eden: Unearthing Britain's Visionary Music, in 2011.

War On Drugs sound like Dire Straits because the hivemind has decided they do, it's an easy reference. They don't actually sound like Dire Straits.

War on Drugs sound marvelous at the Argentine churrascaria I frequent.

no one thinks Dire Straits when they hear WOD outside of internet forums and critics' reviews. plus WOD is missing the key adult contemporary factor and their sound is way too gauzy and more balearic in spots to work as a modern equivalent.

what was the last blues album to make any kind of waves, critically speaking? i'm talking even on a minor level, like when Keb' Mo' and Corey Harris were a thing back in the early '90s, or Luther Allison released his comeback on Alligator records. I'm not sure the Rolling Stones blues album counts here, but even if it does it doesn't strike me as an album that really did anything commercially over the long (or even short) haul, despite it being the type of Stones record a lot of ppl had been pining for.

You can hear Dire Straits daily on rock radio in the US or Canada. I heard "Sultans of Swing" today in fact. Not sure about history books but I doubt they are written out. Also a big influence on a bunch of West African desert blues bands!

I was so disappointed when I heard a War on Drugs album.

Black Keys appear to be a blues act, iirc

what was the last blues album to make any kind of waves, critically speaking?

Does stuff like Tinariwen count?

Gary Clark Jr. has a following, although he isn't <just> a Blues Guy.

As for big critically applauded Blues albums, Buddy Guy's Sweet Tea was a big deal at the time, and his follow-ups have gotten love too.

Kingfish Ingram is a new, young Blues player making waves--I saw him open for VAMPIRE WEEKEND!

Me, literally moments after his set ended, posting in the Blues Rock thread:

Kingfish (new blues trio) is opening for Vampire Weekend, so...is Hendrix-SRV-Buddy Guy Blues/Blues Rock to next Hipster Musical Crush?

― frustration and wonky passion (C. Grisso/McCain), Saturday, August 17, 2019 8:08 PM (two months ago) bookmarkflaglink

I was going to recommend Electric Eden too -- excellent book about the folk revival!

And Gary Clark Jr is really good!! I don't really like electric blues that much but his performances are riveting imo.

Crystal Gayle feels like a good one.

Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich.

^how big were these guys at the time? i've only recently become aware of them which seems weird.

The Guess Who. They they might have sold more records than anybody except the Beatles and CCR in 1970. They weren't much of a critic's band then--Christgau and Bangs liked them--zilch now, I think (i.e., they don't show up in Pitchfork or whatever decade-lists). They still get radio play here because of Cancon regulations, but I'm guessing airplay in the States has narrowed to one or two songs, if that.

Re: blooze, White Stripes, Black Keys, even Red Fang heavy influence. But “the blues” v much fading outside cult circles, and its general influence on pop/rock music - even R&B! - very muted these days.

Re:diamond, let’s take that fucker to another thread.

Neil Diamond: The Works

I’d be interested to hear (over there) from those of you who are just hearing Neil Diamond for the first time.

They still get radio play here because of Cancon regulations, but I'm guessing airplay in the States has narrowed to one or two songs, if that.

The Guess Who is extensively discussed in the Starr/Waterman/Hodgson Rock: A Canadian Perspective and I think any Canadian pop/rock history book. "American Woman" def still known in the US but idk what their place is in US rock history books, although they played the White House in 1970.

Any Canadian pop/rock history book, definitely. But they were commercially huge beyond Canada in '69 and '70, and I don't think there's much cognizance of that today anywhere else.

they played the White House in 1970

So did Vikki Carr, speaking of the unheralded

Best-selling band in the world in 1970 iirc? xp

"These Eyes" is very popular. Lots of people know "Undun" and "No Time" and "No Sugar Tonight" but most probably couldn't identify the artist.

Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich.

^how big were these guys at the time? i've only recently become aware of them which seems weird.

Did I mention them? 14 Top 40 singles between 1965 and 1970 - quite a long span by 60s standards - 8 Top 10 singles, one No. 1.

Does Faithless count as a more recent example?

There's a few late 70s / early 80s hard rock bands like this, often formed by members of more famous bands. I'm thinking particularly of Gillan and the Michael Schenker Group - Gillan had two top 3 albums in the UK and a string of hit singles, and when was the last time you heard anyone reference them? I don't even think Classic Rock magazine talks about them much. MSG had a top 5 UK album iirc too, not to mention that widely-used abbreviated version of their name. More importantly, both bands' patches would regularly turn up on battle jackets, although not often the centrepiece tbh which might tell its own tale.

Also, and this is more vague, there's a certain kind of boogie-woogie blues sound that was prevalent in British rock music in the 1970s but largely killed off by punk and synthpop. You know how Thin Lizzy sounds bluesy, but Depeche Mode doesn't?

Scott Gorham and Brian Robertson weren't!

Ah, ok. Since the main guy seems to be an icon in Ireland I assumed the whole band was from there.

The Guess Who.

I've come across this name before, but I've always assumed it was some early iteration of The Who, I had no idea they were a separate band!

One of them left to form Bachman-Turner Overdrive of "You Ain't Seen Nothin' Yet" fame.

The entire folk-rock movement that followed, with bands like Steeleye Span and Renaissance etc, died a death, and I don't think I've ever read a long-form article on the subject.

There was a masssive* revival of interest in this sort of thing about 10-15 years ago - articles in Mojo, compliations by Bob Stanley, club nights by Peter Paphides, reissues of Vashti Bunyan, Fairport, Shirley Collins, Nick Drake; Rob Young's book as mentioned, even threads on ILM!

*ymmv, obv.

Does Faithless count as a more recent example?

― octobeard

They're still huge on the festival circuit but yeah they're not really in the pop canon.

Can't take credit for "sad boner", delightfully coined over here http://www.alexandraerin.com/2016/06/why-ianmacks-boner-is-the-saddest-boner/ and discussed at the time on Metafilter. The boi who was the inspo used this line in his Huffington Post confessional: "I grow closer to a particular woman, Mya. We speak in poetry and myth" , which is quite Dimondesque.

Not forgotten exactly, but compared to airplay at the time, Lenny Kravitz’ has basically fallen off a cliff.

Also Living Colour. Literally no idea of the last time I heard them incidentally.

funny enough I just pulled that LP off the shelf this week. probably wound up staring at the front & back covers for like 5 minutes

Whatever happened to Trouble Funk? (They got small, y'all, got small...)

Vernon Reid still seems like a revered figure though

The "Cult of Personality" riff is included in this popular instructional book: https://www.amazon.ca/-/fr/Jeff-Schroedl/dp/1458436780/ref=sr_1_10?adgrpid=70613046670&gclid=Cj0KCQjw6eTtBRDdARIsANZWjYa16-pOqF1qPdaLt7dpkQzIa62zob-_4KmfjBTMKP76hBWLVgr9ILUaAqIaEALw_wcB&hvadid=338538813096&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9000676&hvnetw=g&hvpos=1t1&hvqmt=b&hvrand=11054436455274185026&hvtargid=kwd-492179087952&hydadcr=29054_11768646&keywords=hal+leonard+guitar+method+book+1&qid=1572445237&sr=8-10 .

Maybe Chicago? You seldom hear about them any more.

Ha, "25 or 6 to 4" is in the same book. It was in I, Tonya as well and I think The Good Place? Surely Chicago still gets frequent airplay? I think they are generally discussed in American rock history books, at least for their jazz-rock period?

Going down the list of best selling bands/artists of all time posted somewhere upthread, Chicago was the first band that I didn't really know what they sound like.

Mike Skinner probably couldn't get arrested these days. I still like those first two Streets album quite a bit.

I don't believe that you've never heard one of these: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Best_of_Chicago:_40th_Anniversary_Edition
xp

Chicago, or as we call them in the UK, that band that had a hit with "If You Leave Me Now".

ok, I've heard "If You Leave Me Now", didn't know it was them.

Now listening to "The Very Best of Chicago" (the things I do for this board) and none of this other stuff rings a bell.

yeah I can see britishes not getting with lyrics like "Saturday in the park, I think it was the 4th of July"

The 80s ballads are still adult contemporary dentist's office/grocery store staples, I think?

Well, they couldn't get arrested in the UK tbf.

There was recently a documentary about Chicago. They also have a dedicated Russian cover band.

http://leonidandf.com/

There seems to have been a chasm between UK and USA in the 70s.

Eagles, Chicago, Boston, Linda Ronstadt, Bob Seger all of only minor importance in UK

Glam rock, (UK-style) punk and weird cultural detritus like Showaddywaddy, Bay City Rollers and Brotherhood of Man all did very poor business or none at all in the USA.

US and UK charts were very different up until when? The 90s?

I would say the Eagles sold plenty of records in the UK, the others not so much.

Oddly, I remember hearing Chicago blasting in a pub in Liverpool in 09, I think bc I was with a bunch of pop music scholars who were commenting on it. "Hard to Say I'm Sorry", I think? But yeah, I thought silverfish was in Canada. I only heard of Brotherhood of Man bc of relatives in India, tbh. I still don't think I've heard them.

xxp later than that even, but there was at least agreement that madonna, prince, michael jackson, etc. were the biggest stars from the 80s onwards

I know eagles sold a reasonable amount of records, but can't remember hearing anything apart from hotel california being played anywhere

Bay City Rollers had a bunch of Top 40 hits in US and Canada, incl #1 in both countries with "Saturday Night", but you don't hear them much now.

Bay City Rollers had a #1 single in the US, which strangely wasn't even released as single in the UK, and seemed to have been pretty well known.

(xp)

Ha, "25 or 6 to 4" is in the same book. It was in I, Tonya as well and I think The Good Place? Surely Chicago still gets frequent airplay? I think they are generally discussed in American rock history books, at least for their jazz-rock period?

― No language just sound (Sund4r), Wednesday, October 30, 2019 10:28 AM (twenty minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Those two placements -- I, Tonya and The Good Place -- are the only two times I've heard that song broadcast in the last decade. They've largely disappeared from "classic rock" radio, though something like "Saturday In The Park" might get play on an oldies station. They only really get discussed/namechecked alongside Blood, Sweat & Tears when the brief fad of rock-bands-with-big-horn-sections comes up.

Meanwhile, they've* been touring with Earth, Wind & Fire, whose songs never disappeared from the airwaves, and whose horn section was never as stupid and clumsy as Chicago's.

*Out of the original lineup, they're now down to two horn players and the keyboardist.

xp that is very strange, can't say I've ever heard Saturday Night, but interesting that they managed that at the tail end of their uk chart career

xxxxp

I am in Canada. I guess I just don't pay much attention to the music in supermarkets and dentists offices. I'm familiar with plenty of classic rock from the radio, but soft rock/adult contemporary stuff is kind of a blind spot I guess.

What's weird about this chicago album is that so far there have been two songs where at the start I'm pretty sure I've heard it before and then it turns into something else. For 25 or 6 to 4, there is a green day song that basically uses the opening riff, for saturday in the park there is another song that I can't place that sounds similar.

Wet Wet Wet
The Beautiful South

I’d wager exposure varies from province to province and from state to state.

Best thing Chicago ever did:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJ4eh2x2B1E

There seems to have been a chasm between UK and USA in the 70s.

this isn't just the 70s, it's every decade. The crossovers are the exceptions.

there is a green day song that basically uses the opening riff

"Brain Stew"

(xp) The chasm has narrowed considerably as the decades have passed.

Admittedly, I could just be recalling childhood overexposure to Chicago in commercial establishments.

xxxp There is, yes, but also there seems to be much more in the way of international stars in the 60s, 80s, etc.

I'm not sure if my theory that American rock bands have never been very popular in the UK quite holds up but...

rock and country of course! looking at this list

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-certified_music_artists_in_the_United_States

and I have no idea who George Strait at #11 is, don't know if I've even heard the name before

I'm not familiar with that name either.

And who are Alabama at #29?

one of our poorest states iirc

one of our poorest states iirc

Both financially and in terms of overall quality. (I can say that 'cause my brother lives there. He drags the whole state down.)

Most of the unfamiliar ones seem to be country of one sort or another, but wtf are these guys at #65?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mannheim_Steamroller

UK radio was a very different beast to US radio back then, it was basically Radio 1 for pop plus the odd local station. So rock music was seen as this niche aberration, Led Zep and Pink Floyd et al were huge but their big songs weren't really known outside the fan bases.

xpost

Yes, we didn't have this classic rock music rubbish clogging up the airwaves.

Never heard of George Strait either. Or Alabama or Alan Jackson, for that matter.

No we had the Wurzels and Brotherhood of Man iirc

xpost

Tbh, based on anything I've seen/heard of commercial radio from the UK, I'd happily stick with classic rock.

Strait, Alabama, and Alan Jackson all got cursory mentions in Ken Burns' recent country music series, so they're canonical to that extent

There's very little country I can stomach, so my ignorance is partly willed.

peel used to mention, but not play, george strait from time to time so i know a few song titles but not songs. All My Ex's Live In Texas being the one i particularly remember.

Who needs classic rock when you've got this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0fC_HL2NL8

(This is the closest thing I can think of to a guilty pleasure, in that I quite enjoy it while simultaneously feeling mortified that it even existed)

Oh, so they were basically ABBA with native English speakers?

And without a modicum of talent? Yes.

Basically this, yes.

But with somehow genuinely classic tunes occasionally poking their noses out and being buried beneath shitheaps of end-of-the-pier tastelessness.

Most of the unfamiliar ones seem to be country of one sort or another, but wtf are these guys at #65?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mannheim_Steamroller

― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length)

lol, those guys are HUGE here every december, it's chip davis (who did "convoy") doing these kind of gaudy new-age christmas songs, do you know trans-siberian orchestra? kind of like them but mannheim steamroller were around first. my mom had all the mannheim steamroller tapes when i was a kid

it's not any worse than any other christmas music to be honest

I had a high school friend whose praise for Mannheim Steamroller somehow always worked in the descriptor "classically trained." Like, did you know all the guys in Mannheim Steamroller were classically trained?

Yawn, so's everybody in the New York Philharmonic. Ditto the local community orchestra; doesn't mean they don't suck.

Mannheim Steamroller sales are 98.5% people who donated to NPR fundraisers in the 80 and 90s. Post-Reagan equivalent of exotica records, Music to Stir Risotto to

do you know trans-siberian orchestra?

No.

George Strait has like 800 #1 Country songs, but he never tried for any pop crossover, so he's largely by non-Country fans for "Exes Live In Texas"

Yeah Mannheim Steamroller and Trans-Siberian Orchestra reliably sold hundreds of CDs every Christmas when I worked at a chain bookstore, no doubt they continue to do so. They're radically different in sound but equally unlistenable trash. Mannheim are saccharine while TSO are bombastic. When we got the in-store promo copies the music staff had an informal agreement to scratch the shit out of them on day one so they could never be played. It didn't always work - the store manager would just buy copies and make us play those.

TSO are basically a power metal band (formed by ex-members of Savatage; Alex Skolnick from Testament toured with them for years) playing Christmas music.

Trans-Mannheimian Steamrollerstra reliably sell out the US circuit of medium-to-smallish-city theaters (mostly season-subscription places that have whatever the town's local orchestra is, Livingston Taylor, and An Evening With Terry Gross).

Never heard of either of those bands, such parallel worlds we live in!

I've been checking out the trans-siberian orcestra.

1. fucking hell they are awful

2. but also why are they so cheap-looking? for example surely they can afford to pay a designer something to make a more acceptable cover for this platinum-selling LP?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/dd/Night_castle.jpg

Wet Wet Wet
The Beautiful South

My brother in law asked me to get tickets for Paul Heaton when they went on sale last week and were sold out in 3 minutes.

Eat your heart out, Necrolord.

xp

wet wet wet are due a re-appraisal.

if poptimism had anything about it marti would be a legend

(a marti-less "wet wet wet" are still touring, which is a travesty)

Beautiful South hardly forgotten either.

This is where I get to play an American “I’ve never heard those artists” card

Ah, ok. Since the main guy seems to be an icon in Ireland I assumed the whole band was from there.

Lynott wrote 80% of the material, did all the lyrical and Celtic sleeve art conceptualising, and was the face and heart and soul of the band. Not that the other members weren't important but he was more important to the band than the rest of them put together.

Also, as well as Lynott, the drummer was Irish and so was Eric Bell, the original guitarist before Robertson and Gorham came along. So they totally qualify as an Irish band.

2. but also why are they so cheap-looking? for example surely they can afford to pay a designer something to make a more acceptable cover for this platinum-selling LP?

i have this same question about several hundred thousand different book covers from the previous 10 years

there is no excuse, in this day and age, to design a cover that is so catastrophically bad

book/album cover designers, and the people that are paying them to make covers (or the people who are making it themselves the night before it is due) should ask themselves before pressing "submit":

is this better than a blank white background with only the title in a small, boring font

i say this as someone whose career output is 99.9% unmitigated garbage, career earnings: several thousand negative dollars

This is where I get to play an American “I’ve never heard those artists” card

I think the only reason I know The Beautiful South was from reading I think it was a Youngblood comic in the '90s, and it had one of the characters going on a fake-Letterman late night show where the mentioned but never seen musical guest was...The Beautiful South. I guess Liefeld was a fan?

Huh I always assumed Mannheim Steamroller was a reference to Mannheim Road in Chicago. Has nothing to do with roads!

TSO version of "Carol of the Bells" is all-time.

I actually know Beautiful South - MuchMusic played "Song for Whoever", which is hilarious, sort of like a cynical Chicago.

Engelbert Humperdinck, James Last, Barbra Streisand, Nana Mouskouri, Demis Roussos...who will pick them up from the scrapheap of history, now that their original fanbase have lost most of their hearing?

didn't know engelbert humperdink was a real name for a real person until i ended up with a bunch of my deceased aunt's LPs

Wasn't his real name iirc, but he did name himself after an old composer.

(He was #1 the day I was born, biggest selling artist that year)

(oh, your aunt could've had LP's by the composer...)

I always thoughtit was a weird coincidence that the easy listening singer had the same name as the composer.

The 1950s-70s easy listening audience is dying out now, even charity shops seem to be running dry of Andy Williams and Perry Como LPs. Not to mention the Black & White Minstrel Show. Can't see it being rehabilitated a la Martin Denny either, although you never know whether James Last might become collectable in future decades.

there's a non-ILXor in my Spotify feed listening to Wet Wet Wet right now!

Demis Roussos and Nana Mouskouri are both worth investigating imo.

there are good nana records? tell me more!

I don't know, I just like when she sings in Greek!

The Beautiful South. I guess Liefeld was a fan?

this is incomprehensible

ah ok! she's the one person you can still rely on finding in the charity shops, maybe one day i'll take the plunge. got some good demis over the years though! xp

She has thousands of albums and sings in about 50 different languages and also has an ILM thread

... with some awesome images in it.

I always wondered if Nana had a track or two in an Aphrodite's Child or Xenakis vein, research isn't turning up anything other than tourist ballads though

Nah, that would be Irene Pappas.

Imagine Nana doing that Aphrodite's Child "Infinity" track

Good one here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHDru5mxlzg

Another one of those: Julio Iglesias.

thanks josefa, kind of a skiffle thing going on in that song

Three ways Chicago left their footprint on the 1990s:

• “Saturday In The Park” was sampled in the De La Soul’s “Roller Skating Jam Named “Saturdays”” (I could swear the intro was sampled in some other well known track, but WhoSampled says no)

• Their 1979 track “Street Player” was transformed into the 1995 house classic “The Bomb! (These Sounds Fall into My Mind)” by the Bucketheads.

• The Babyface-produced Az Yet cover of “Hard To Say I’m Sorry” was a big international hit in 1997.

In conclusion: middlebrow is no way into the history books.

• Their 1979 track “Street Player” was transformed into the 1995 house classic “The Bomb! (These Sounds Fall into My Mind)” by the Bucketheads.

this is a tune

roger whittaker.