What are Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Flaws?

ok, enough is enough. she gets a thread.

haha nice callback title

cool now we have four US politics threads

She's fairly disrespectful to our president, for a start.

she's so awesome she makes everyone else look bad

excellent title

if people don't want to use it, they won't

xp

sharp knees

american

If she's able to maintain her political stance (and especially if she winds up being an effective legislator) I would be very comfortable casting a prez vote for her once she's eligible to run.

i think she's wonderful. one thing i especially like about her is that she seems adept at forming a posse of like-minded legislators. she's good at sharing her political fame and recognition and using it to boost others.

in before someone suggests she's nominated for president
xp fuck just missed it.

name has 5-4-2 syllable pattern: last name should have three syllables

left-handed, so she's pretty much limited to 1B or the outfield

Alexandria / Ocasio-Cortez is / a living haiku.

the main reason for this thread is that she is an excellent twitterer, so maybe her daily handful of zings can go here instead of the other threads.

however, if i worry about anything with AOC, it's that one day she's going to slip up in some major way, probably on twitter. the right wing is foaming at the mouth to take her down because they recognize what a beacon she's already become.

buuuuut, the great thing about AOC is that i would have more confidence in her than just about anyone else to bounce back quickly from a hypothetic major twitter fuckup. as our wise president says "we'll see what happens"

Left-handed? Excellent.

yeah i was going to say how bad can she really fuck up on twitter that will make what these assholes say about here matter to anyone but them?

about her*

She cares too much

her ability to get the right to constantly self-own without even doing anything is incredible. at first I thought the "they're terrified of her" thing was overblown but they clearly are. not just because she's so far left but also because I don't think she's willing to "play ball" the way people like Schumer and Obama were. plus the fact that she's young and massively popular will only encourage more like her to come out of the woodwork which could shape US politics for decades to come. she's only been in office for a month but she already feels like an icon.

God, does this woman have a gazillions tons of hope resting on her shoulders or what?

I look forward to many years of right-wing sputtering about the outrageous policy positions of this lefty commie socialist who okay is very attractive but that's not the point because she's going to destroy this country perhaps even with her smoldering good looks.

I think the biggest thing she can achieve, especially in the near term, is to inspire more like minded young politicians to run.

however, if i worry about anything with AOC, it's that one day she's going to slip up in some major way, probably on twitter. the right wing is foaming at the mouth to take her down because they recognize what a beacon she's already become.

they already have. You should read "smart" conservatives like Charles Cooke and Noah Rothman patiently explaining like Paul Muni as Zola how her plans are untenable. They don't get how she's using conservative methods since the Reagan-Poppy era: float a trial balloon, then watch as people accommodate.

she came out too fully formed as an awesome politician and therefore must actually be either an alien or a veteran operative in disguise

fwiw I maintain muted expectations about what she can actually achieve in the system but so far she has exceeded them

https://libcom.org/news/abolishing-ice-funding-it-07012019

she's already exceeded expectations. no one was talking about a Green New Deal or a 70% top rate before she came along.

imo her strength so far has been to say exactly enough, or to respond with tongue-in-cheek fact checks about her stances without jumping into clusterfucks

having someone with actual policy stances without a political or even social past deep enough to sabotage dialogue in favor of ad hominem attacks is a net positive. media and public commentary almost demands a personality or face to link policy to, because policy is abstract and complicated and presenting an individual makes the job easier. if she's that person, have at it

it's a refreshing change from the right-wing version in the tea party goons, who had notional policy ideas and were 90% horrible personality and demagoguery

https://libcom.org/news/abolishing-ice-funding-it-07012019

― xyzzzz__, Thursday, February 7, 2019 1:51 PM (forty-eight seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is kind of bullshitty. She voted for the bill to reopen govt.

btw it does pain me to bring up the "Trump of the left" thing but it does occur to me that she's *actually* good at all the political stuff that people thought Trump was good at

xp

This was not a catch-all bill to reopen the federal government, which has been shut down for weeks while Trump refuses to sign a budget until he gets funding for a border wall. That was a different vote. No, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi scheduled an entirely separate vote solely on funding the Department of Homeland Security.

Alfred's post reminds me of an article about perpetual ratfucker Gingrich, who was wildly successful at his goals until the day he wasn't

iirc she has changed her tack on how she votes for bills like that one. she recently was the sole dem holdout on another funding bill I believe?

yeah I was gonna say that libcom link falls more under "legit critique of a particular action" than a "flaw" and if she's already moved on from that stance then so much the better.

the way Congress operates you kind of have to either vote for some bad things or not vote for some good things because it all comes in the same bill. I don't think she'd actually vote against abolishing ICE if such a thing were to come up.

Cool thanks I wasn't really buying it too much (basically if you fuck with electoralism lib com goes after you)

But that's the only thing I've seen (and I almost always only entertain critiques of left-politicians from the left)

I was reading this piece on her call with Corbyn and she was swayed a bit on the allegations he is an anti-semite. That's more a product of doing too much twitter where everyone tweets to you with their agendas.

https://www.currentaffairs.org/2019/02/how-to-think-clearly-about-anti-semitism-controversies-in-the-labour-party

But if the worst thing is that she might tweet something that isn't so good at times then she's doing amazing.

they already have. You should read "smart" conservatives like Charles Cooke and Noah Rothman patiently explaining like Paul Muni as Zola how her plans are untenable. They don't get how she's using conservative methods since the Reagan-Poppy era: float a trial balloon, then watch as people accommodate.

― Your sweetie-pie-coo-coo I love ya (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, February 7, 2019 1:50 PM (seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Trump methods too. You float something outrageous (end birthright citizenship), everyone goes "THAT'S PREPOSTEROUS" and then the "smart" and "reasonable" people say "well actually lots of countries don't have birthright citizenship at all." Now you've shifted the debate into your territory, and maybe you can't change the constitution in that particular case, but you've weakened resistance to tighter immigration laws.

I realize a lot of people *say* that Trump does this, but I don't think that's true - were there not a bunch of so-called smart conservatives who insisted that the "wall" was just a metaphor for "strong border security", which he's rejected over and over again because he actually wants a big dumb physical wall?

I'm still laughing at this tweet chain where her chief of staff was clued in not to take a meeting with known grifters (original post deleted but you get the jist)

This guy is a dingbat grifter, take the time to do 3 seconds of googling bro

— Dan (@dankmtl) February 4, 2019

man alive otm way upthread. It’s almost spooky how skilled and self assured she is this early in her career. Like a Mozart or Tiger Woods of politics.

frogbs otm, that would be the real overton window shifting strategy, but Trump literally doesn't understand it and is obsessed with numbers

If he were to get six billion he's still not building a wall, he's saying "we built it" and just tossing the money at the border patrol/DHS and never calling them to check to see where it went

he's stuck on six billion = wall

I realize a lot of people *say* that Trump does this, but I don't think that's true - were there not a bunch of so-called smart conservatives who insisted that the "wall" was just a metaphor for "strong border security", which he's rejected over and over again because he actually wants a big dumb physical wall?

― frogbs, Thursday, February 7, 2019 2:03 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Trump personally is a mental and emotional child. I mean Stephen Miller and the like.

man alive otm way upthread. It’s almost spooky how skilled and self assured she is this early in her career. Like a Mozart or Tiger Woods of politics.

― Trϵϵship, Thursday, February 7, 2019 2:05 PM (fifteen seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I literally told a friend I thought she could be president back when we weren't even sure if she could win her primary. I don't attribute that to any special insight, it's plain to see.

She’s actually impressive in an age of mass disillusionment.

I mean decisively taking down a well-liked establishment dude like Crowley with like 5% of the funding and no corporate endorsements whatsoever is legit one of the most impressive political accomplishments I've ever witnessed

for sure

although "well-liked" might be a stretch -- I think he was a bit complacent and absent from his district, leaving more of an opening than realized. But def well-connected in queens overall. I mean, chair of the queens democratic party, mr. machine.

I like her a lot and think she has a bright future, including a possible path to the presidency if she chooses to pursue it (which is a bit difficult to do from the House, historically). There is, of course, still plenty of time for her to flame out or not deliver on big legislative priorities, but so far she's been very sure-footed and she has excellent priorities and communications skills.

her main flaw appears to be her mortality and lack of imperviousness to bullets fired by white nationalists

xp - he was like 3rd in line for Speaker, right?

xp

Uhhhh.....

main reason for this thread is that she is an excellent twitterer, so maybe her daily handful of zings can go here instead of the other threads.


this is an argument against a fourth thread

xps iirc the last recent notable political assassination was in the UK, let's not throw stones shall we?

Steve Scalise and Gabby Giffords, tho

It really isn't funny to joke about at all

otm

steve scalise jokes are funny cause he survived and he's fucking asshole. Speculating about political assassinations that haven't happened is not particularly funny imho

"I hope she doesn't get assassinated" has an uncomfortable undertone of concern trolling

I'm still amazed no one managed to take a pop at Obama over 8 years

I'm just voicing everyone's fear. I really, really hope she is able to fulfil her apparent destiny

I hate even speculating about it, but other than just the level of security presidents now have, I chalk it up to there probably being about an equally small number of people with sufficient motive and means to assassinate any president, like it's just always a small pool of people, racist or not.

i'm amazed any of us are alive tbh

Take heart in the fact that political assassinations/assassination attempts are frequently the work of apolitical nutballs trying (for wholly-fabricated example) to drum up attention for their hand modeling career by taking a crack at a Missouri state senator who they mistook for Count Chocula. Very rarely is there any reasoned intention behind the act.

she really is an icon already

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DywzDuTUYAAopLa.jpg:large

I wonder how long before the right tries to paint her as Eva Peron? You just know they are waiting to exploit even the tiniest cracks they can drive a wedge into. Some cracks they can exploit are bound to show up, especially as the left begins to pile more and more hopes on her and place greater demands for taking leadership on her shoulders. I hope she can assemble a very strong and astute group of staff and informal advisors to take some of that load. She's young, smart and strong, but she's human, too.

she has a staff and she doesn't need to spend time on fundraising calls. she has more time than any of them to strategize

first there would have to be americans who knew who eva peron was besides a madonna role

the right going all-out on her might backfire when there's suddenly a dozen more AOC-like candidates in 2022

stfu lj

one of the coolest things about AOC is when she says something that even my right-wing friends are forced to agree with. this has happened multiple times already!

she has triggered so many people so easily, it's astonishing.

she may be a bit more of a unicorn than the vanguard of a future wave of AOC clones

"I hope she doesn't get assassinated" has an uncomfortable undertone of concern trolling

― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 7 February 2019 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

otm. If you are going to change things, that's what you'll face.

The bigger point is to build a network of left-politicians so the thing doesn't fall apart over one bullet. Not interested in this great person will save us all narrative because its ultimately up to us all.

She seems to have triggered trump and his speechwriters already, too. The reference to socialism in his SOTU seemed like just as much a shot at AOC and her crew as it was at Bernie Sanders

The focus on her salary, clothes, what she did 10 years ago etc. really reminiscent of when Corbyn first came along here.

lol, about 80 posts in an hour and five of them are "did we HAVE to make this thread", uh, yeah

it is amazing how every shot they've taken at her has backfired - amplifying her policy views, spreading videos of her being fun and cool, revealing that they have no clue how marginal tax rates work...isn't this the sort of thing the GOP is supposed to be good at?

The real problem is that the Democrats have been afraid to push back because they thought the main things Americans want are civility and politeness.

As it turns out, the main thing Americans actually want is a future.

isn't this the sort of thing the GOP is supposed to be good at?

lol not really

(So, when someone pops up who unabashedly and unashamedly says "here is an actual left vision for the future that most people can grasp/imagine", the Right can't do much about it because all of their attacks have been predicated on the notion that the people they're attacking are too polite to baldly call bullshit)

the right has been called on their bullshit over and over again, but now that message has found a better messenger.

The bigger point is to build a network of left-politicians so the thing doesn't fall apart over one bullet. Not interested in this great person will save us all narrative because its ultimately up to us all.

― xyzzzz__, Thursday, 7 February 2019 19:53 (twenty-four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

y'all ready for this?

xyzzzz otm. let this be the start of something

Not interested in this great person will save us all narrative because its ultimately up to us all.

yep

yea I mean look at all the young, history-making Dem reps elected in 2018 (nearly all female) - hopefully that is what winds up being Trump's political legacy

great man theory, even if it's great woman, is def played out but i dig AOC and am hopeful she's a force for good for the long term

she didnt ummm split tips correctly at the end of the night or something (?)

She came dancing across the water. (Not a flaw.)

she was a johnny-come-lately phoenix fan

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4778221/rep-ocasio-cortez-explains-broken-system

^ this is not fun to watch but fun to hear her go

I did find this FB post from yesterday amusing:

http://dellioandwoods.files.wordpress.com/2019/02/cortez.jpg?resize=219%2C219

"When you see a Strong Woman in real life for the first time."

I like her a lot, but I don't know, that might be a little wishful thinking there. I really don't think that's what's going on in that photo.

reframing it that way makes sense, because it is out there already and the other framing drags down everyone in it

another 'trying to make her look bad but making her even cooler' moment

.@aoc has a 430 credit score, two evictions, and an empty résumé

Just two months ago, she couldn’t afford an apartment in DC

Now, the Democratic leadership has put her on the Financial Services Committee & the media is saying that her Green New Deal will “reshape” the economy

— John LeFevre (@JohnLeFevre) February 7, 2019

I know conservatives haaaate strong women, so I was preparing myself to see a lot of unfortunate shit posted about her, but I've been honestly shocked at the absolutely disgusting stuff my conservative family and high school acquaintances have been posting on FB for her. It really is horrifying.

i've seen a lot of memes calling her crazy and stupid but honestly in a post-trump world is all feels pretty desperate

maybe we need another civil war

a task of movements must be to act to produce politicians beholden to them: movement politicians willing to fight to advance movement demands while the movements continue outside agitation. this is to say that we must do more than wait on the next AOC to emerge. we have to act to produce the next AOC.

xp: I don't know about "need" but it seems like we're headed that way

Maybe we can combine it with the impending class war and get them both over, like ripping off a particularly troublesome bandaid that will end up murdering half the world

maybe throw in a little WWIII just to clear the plate completely

do it right this time

would def draw down our GHG emissions

maybe we need another civil war

https://youtu.be/pSANTRnEBgg?t=53

HOOS otm

like I said, actionable policy positions are #1, but you have to hang them on to a person in order to gain any traction because everything is so personality-based. get some more people in office who can, at the least, recite the policy points and hold firm to them is everything

Don't this was posted yet

‘We have a system that is fundamentally broken.’ — Rep. @AOC is explaining just how f*cked campaign finance laws really are pic.twitter.com/7rRXf9pD6Z

— NowThis (@nowthisnews) February 7, 2019

that was great

i have to admit i was mildly skeptical of her, because of a few minor missteps during and after her primary victory, and because i'm just constitutionally skeptical of "leaders" (especially ones that have people on social media gushing)-- but she's impressed me with her focus, seriousness, ability to communicate, and fearlessness.

she's pretty much untouchable now within the party. I'm sure the centrist wing is eventually going to pounce when they see the right opportunity though.

how long will they still have jobs

and it's not like she's not part of a wing herself, among her fellow freshmen and otherwise

I'm glad she's here to catch GOP flak/calumnies that would otherwise be directed at our presidential candidates.

man alive otm way upthread. It’s almost spooky how skilled and self assured she is this early in her career. Like a Mozart or Tiger Woods of politics.

― Trϵϵship

ts: mozart vs. tiger woods

today ended up being well timed for this thread, that video of her explaining the legality of corruption has been everywhere

lol "tiger woods of politics" is ominous for sure

I found her annoying early on but have warmed to her since. I lived in her district and her campaign had some cringe moments when she wasn't as on top of a lot of details. she wasn't always great at twitter. when she beat crowley and she accused him of trying to mount a 3rd party campaign - that looked pretty bad, especially given how well he actually took his loss. at that point in time it wasn't clear she wouldn't end up being an embarrassment. but anyway, she's turned out to be a rare political talent who's smart, charismatic, great on camera etc. etc. and will presumably be an important part of the democratic party for decades.

flaws: the green new deal narrative that she's helping build is one where we can fight global warming without middle class americans making sacrifices.

when she beat crowley and she accused him of trying to mount a 3rd party campaign - that looked pretty bad, especially given how well he actually took his loss.

i had this in mind when i mentioned her missteps. what was dispiriting about it was that initially she doubled down after many people tried to explain that his presence on the ballot was due to a quirk of NY's electoral system. above all it just seemed to relfect that she was *too online* -- she didn't take that required interval of reflection and research before just kind of hammering crowley about it, instead it was just the usual barrage of tweets. but that turned out to be kind of anomalous -- there haven't really been a lot of similar missteps since, in my view.

xpost

tbh "fighting global warming" in any sense would really mean a profound transformation in human civilization -- no more transcontinental flights, most people not permitted to drive cars, an acceptance that constant economic "growth" is no longer desirable -- that almost noone is prepared to accept. nor are there really any mechanics to effect it. so we're doomed imo.

yeah I agree with both of those things

lol "tiger woods of politics" is ominous for sure

― affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy)

mozart is worse, you know where mark hamill got his joker laugh right?!?

i mentioned in another thread that she got numbers and things wrong and it was kind of embarrassing (what the branches of government were, some medicare numbers; I think there may have been something else). I think she does better when speaking in societal goals; hence, the new green deal, which seems to kind of leave the specifics out but makes sense as an aspiration. what am I saying? sorry i'm high.

also it seems fairly clear to me now that she's the heir to bobby kennedy and obama; I can't think of anyone else in the Democratic Party since who inspired as much devotion in their fanbase while so young.

dare i say the crazy right hates her as much as hilary, obama, and bernie sanders combined.

-- no more transcontinental flights, most people not permitted to drive cars, an acceptance that constant economic "growth" is no longer desirable -- that almost noone is prepared to accept.

Can we plz not parrot GOP talking pts in this thread k thx

The “welp nothing we can do cuz it would require destroying life as we know it” nihilism is their main argument against taking any kind of action. Stop encouraging this viewpoint.

Most people shouldn’t be permitted to drive cars

"most" - who? "permitted" - by whom?

Anyone who’s able to ride the bus; the State.

ok good times!

Stop encouraging this viewpoint.

i'm sorry, i didn't realize GOP operatives were trawling this thread for rhetorical ammunition. i'll be more circumspect in the future.

this is for a different thread (for example, the climate change thread), but i think it's perfectly reasonable to hold the viewpoint that meaningful action on climate change would involve some changes that seem unthinkable to many people today (like confronting the idea that maybe we can't grow exponentially grow the economy ad infinitum). not everyone agrees. there are plenty of people that think that economic growth and environmental protection aren't inherently at odds with each other. i used to be of that opinion of myself, and it is certainly the prevailing viewpoint of most politicians who advocate for the environment. it makes a lot of political sense to hold that view, and regardless of the reality of climate change, it may be the most effective point of view to hold, in terms of trying to promote beneficial policies (which i think is where shakey is coming from). theoretically, it is possible to grow the economy in an environmentally friendly way, but i think we blew straight past that point. there's only so much time that one can say "if we make X and Y changes within the next 20 years, we'll be ok". i've been hearing that since i was a kid. i think we're past that time now, and now we're entering the territory of having to make fundamental changes that seem unthinkable to many people today.

it's true that holding the point of view that fundamental changes are required isn't exactly politically savvy, or at least that's been true in the past. but imo it's perfectly reasonable as a personal point of view, and especially on an internet thread.

Nothin but net

another 'trying to make her look bad but making her even cooler' moment

the things about her history in this tweet, while indeed not disqualifying her in any way, are lies

the video of her explaining political corruption posted slightly upthread is brilliant, all over the internet, and speaks to a very novel talent for social media communication that is well beyond her old-guard competition.

the right don't seem to know what to do without a woman to froth at the mouth over; the refreshing thing about aoc is that she makes them look like the mouth-frothing lunatics they are

we'll see how she holds up to thirty fucking years of this shit

there is a very particular, and desirable talent that very few people have for saying very complicated things very simply without simplifying them. That video is almost like "ways of seeing" for ethics and oversight in contemporary governance. This talent for plainspokennes seems particularly crucial in the age of trump, where simple formulations are seen to be incredibly winning in capturing public imagination. MAGA, take back control. what distinguishes AOC is that her formulations aren't just meaningless iterations of primal nativist chest-beating.

Mozart is in the bad place. ijs

tbh "fighting global warming" in any sense would really mean a profound transformation in human civilization -- no more transcontinental flights, most people not permitted to drive cars, an acceptance that constant economic "growth" is no longer desirable -- that almost noone is prepared to accept. nor are there really any mechanics to effect it. so we're doomed imo.

― affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Friday, 8 February 2019 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This politician is good but we're fucked anyway is a good attitude I guess.

some of my antipathy towards Green parties stems from a feeling that we are fucked anyway, and some of their gestural politics might see them throw disableds under a bus to save knotty-faced sea squirrels or whatever.

shall we see the (UK) Green party policy towards the disabled

https://policy.greenparty.org.uk/dy.html

have a read

I am just generalising about Green ideology and how I feel where it might end up, not saying it is a perfect pov. But lots of people are having as rough an existence as the planet is rn.

one thing I do usually notice is that (and this doesn't always hold true) people who care about the planet also care about the well-being of the unprivileged, and vice versa

I wish someone would explain to some of these lovely people that many disabled ppl need single-use plastic straws, for starters.

Green politics seems like the ultimate utopian "socialism in one country" thing where unless the whole planet is unequivocally committed to it, it's localised pressure groups - pissing into the wind. I mean even if the whole planet was committed to the cause, how many centuries could we delay The Great Dying 2.0 by?

I am not so green that I don't use still disposable plastic straws on occasion although I've picked up a nifty pack of stainless steel ones for home use. I have gone through a TON in my life. More than most people I think, as there was a period when I used them as a jaunty affectation. What is your particular use for them, calzino?

I don't use them, I'm not disabled - just know ppl who are and say they can't use metal ones.

I mean even if the whole planet was committed to the cause, how many centuries could we delay The Great Dying 2.0 by?

I really, really get this feeling, but it's essentially the path to giving up all together no? Ie lol we're all gonna die. I'd dread a world where the centrists or the godforaken libdems are the most 'left'/utopian politicians around, but it seems you've abandoned hope on the place of idealism in politics?

in theory i like the paper ones but in practice they turn to mush in about 30 seconds

"I don't use them, I'm not disabled - just know ppl who are and say they can't use metal ones."

why?

I had friends virtue signaling all over the damn facebook when banning these in SF was being discussed; they'd never once seemed to care about the disabled prior (I mean personally I'm sure they did but they really wanted to make a show of "what about the disableds!") but none of the arguments were very cogent. There are paper straws. You can use them. Sure they taste a bit gunky but many places have used them for years and you do get used to them.

shut the fuck up dickhead, I'm not even wasting my time on you.

That escalated quickly

sorry a bit rude, but when ppl display extreme ignorance + use "virtue signalling" an internal switch goes in me.

just curious if you guys have read the GP FAQ bc it's extraordinarily ambitious - it's honestly v hard for me to imagine it being implemented let alone asking for something even more dramatic: https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/5729035/Green-New-Deal-FAQ.pdf

what are AOC's environmental stances, I assume they are good ones

My hope is that AOC inspires more working-class people to get into politics. If you can lay out your convictions plainly, (assuming they're inclined towards building an actual viable future for living people) and make clear your positions haven't already been bought and sold, no one will care about gaffes.

Anyone who’s able to ride the bus; the State.

― Norm’s Superego (silby), Friday, February 8, 2019 3:36 AM (eleven hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol ilu

apparently that FAQ might be fake - sorry if so!

quoting Alan Moore

in theory i like the paper ones but in practice they turn to mush in about 30 seconds
― illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Friday, February 8, 2019 1:14 PM (three hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

personally I just avoid beverages. simplifies things.

sorry to bring this back to an AOC thread, but plastic straws are the most versatile and least problematic of straws for some disabled people to use for liquids including life giving sustenance and medication, not just beverages. I bet AOC would agree with me tbf.

lol ilu

― There's more Italy than necessary. (in orbit), Friday, February 8, 2019 7:28 AM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

thanks!

lmao conservatives really think the "Green New Deal" involves drinking piss

https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/51735329_568773206866772_6398036816041082880_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=ff4b28fc1bd7c05d0ebd0e0c11f4feb6&oe=5CEEFD5B

what are AOC's environmental stances, I assume they are good BAD ones

I thought conservatives liked drinking piss

?_nc_cat=102&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=ff4b28fc1bd7c05d0ebd0e0c11f4feb6&oe=5CEEFD5B

Since 1992, Costner has financially supported a variety of Democratic politicians, including Al Gore and Tom Daschle, but also made contributions to Republican Phil Gramm as late as 1995. He said publicly in 2008 that he has no ambition to run for political office, adding "I've lived quite a colorful life".

lol:

look at these morons trying to gorilla channel @aoc's green new deal pic.twitter.com/vCjzQcM6mt

— cristina lópez g. (@crislopezg) February 8, 2019

conservatives are so broke brained that they are literally believing it though

I thought conservatives liked drinking piss

I posted something like this as a response and all I got was "is that supposed to be a joke?"

J---- J--
I seriously hope this is fake. Because, yuck.

J---- J--
Nobody is peeing in my coffee.

N-- R---
well we know the President loves piss so we could possibly have a bipartisan deal here!

J---- J--
Is that supposed to be funny?

that is literally what we will all have to do if we keep destroying the planet, nice detective work republicans

not a joke. not even slightly. that is a deliberately and carefully fabricated lie, designed to look as convincing as possible by making it appear "in print" with an easily deciphered "code" that will attach it to AOC. the fact that it has no basis at all in reality is irrelevant. this lie will circulate and create its own reality. and harm. much as we'd love to laugh off this shit, it is very real shit and it will stick to the GND as it hits the word-of-mouth stage among it target audience. just like black helicopters and similarly far-fetched nonsense that have stuck.

enh I'm not at all convinced it'll stick

Pee-to-potable tech has been around for a long ass time and it’s a good idea that shd be in GND

otoh, peeing into a jug and letting it sit in the sun for six hours before using it brew tea is not a good idea and has no connection to GND

I'm not at all convinced it'll stick

contrails stuck. Vince Foster stuck. it doesn't have to go mainstream to gather belief among susceptible people and those believers will share it as widely as possible because it is designed to provoke that kind of "would you believe it? those GNDealers want us to piss in a jug and drink it!" rumor-mongering activity. it's too good not to spread once you've swallowed the bait.

there's an old saying that a rumor flies around in the world in the time it takes for truth to get out bed.

I don't care about conspiracy nuts and no one else should either, to the extent that they're influential it's very much on the outskirts of culture. birtherism was just as prominent, if not moreso, than any of those and it didn't prevent anything,

eh the thing about contrails or the Vince Foster thing (or Seth Rich, or Uranium One, etc etc) is that there's no way to prove it one way or the other, especially when it involves Things They Don't Want You To Know, this on the other hand is pretty easy to verify as false

I don't care about conspiracy nuts and no one else should either

It's basic FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt), and it's all part of the dirty tricks arsenal, by sowing confusion and misinformation. The very fact that you heard it from someone you know, even if you had doubts about it, means something in the low-information environment that tens of millions of rural and urban poor voters live in. The last election hinged on less than 100,000 strategically located votes.

piss on these people

you realize that they don't like to be pissed on? it only feeds their resentment of 'urban elites' and makes them gleefully embrace con-man shitheads like Trump in order to prompt your libtears?

Now Twitter is mad at her for saying that democratic socialism and capitalism can be compatible, I guess?

xp dang, that's a convincing argument, i suppose i will not actually piss on another human being after all

i suppose i will not actually piss on another human being after all

they can still sense your strong desire to piss on them, especially when you say "piss on those people". it's a what they call "a tell".

Now Twitter is mad at her for saying that democratic socialism and capitalism can be compatible, I guess?

"twitter" isn't, socialists on twitter are. they want to destroy capitalism. so of course they're not wild about this. but I think they're mad about the opinion, not taking this as some kind of betrayal on AOC's part. I don't think anyone considers her a dyed-in-the-wool socialist. she already sorta distanced herself from DSA

most of them are fine to let AOC do her thing and expand the horizon of the possible for budding leftists and dazzled liberals but they get a little nervous when she threatens to mainstream socialism into being basically just a capitalist welfare state

do they have a more plausible alternative route to socialism?

there's an old saying that a rumor flies around in the world in the time it takes for truth to get out bed.

A lie travelling, not a rumour, and commonly "before the truth has finished pulling on its boots," or similar. Derived from Swift, speaking closely to your point: "Falsehood flies, and the Truth comes limping after it; so that when Men come to be undeceiv’d, it is too late; the Jest is over, and the Tale has had its Effect…"

I would need to hear the full quote to see the context (literally working on recollections of spotting it this morning), but it sounds like she's redefining socialism, not arguing for a path to instituting it (under any definition I'd recognize, anyway) xp

ppl get defensive about these things because they're used to having their views misrepresented from the right as opposed to a theoretically sympathetic liberal left. but tbh I don't care much about this either way because I don't think anyone should be relying on AOC for their abstract political theory.

True or False: Kermit-drinking-tea meme is actually Kermit-drinking-piss

how deep does this go????

The fact that the creator of the fake green new deal piss thing made it specific to "males" is a big tell imo

I guess mandatory soy would have been too obvious

just like black helicopters and similarly far-fetched nonsense that have stuck.

remember the "death panels" mandated by the ACA?

definitely, they executed my grandma last year after a televised trial, it was awful

i don't worry too much about people believing really dumb fake shit about GND because if those people weren't spending their time believing that dumb fake shit they'd be spending it believing some other dumb fake shit

[obligatory these people have more time than you think quip post]

karl otm

they can still sense your strong desire to piss on them, especially when you say "piss on those people". it's a what they call "a tell".

if those people weren't spending their time believing that dumb fake shit they'd be spending it believing some other dumb fake shit

the pity is, all the dumb fake shit they're fed is weighted toward keeping the power and money flowing toward the worst sort of people, but if the 'good people' were to propagate a counter-offensive of dumb fake shit that favored the 'right policies', it would quickly extinguish the very principles that made the 'good people' good people to begin with. you'd end up with The Protocols of the Elders of Wall Street, or some such garbage.

Has anyone pointed out how shitty this thread title is for the AOC conversation hub?

No, but it IS annoying having to keep opening three political threads!

we should have one for everyone

What are Matt Whitaker's Flaws?

have you seen his hair?

no

re: climate change. I think we're doomed to a future world with deeply curtailed human carrying capacity, which means a lot of suffering over the next couple centuries till a new equilibrium of remaining resources and population is achieved. Science communicators have systematically underplayed how grave the consequences, and how difficult total decarbonization will be. More importantly, even later this century as social collapse expands from the most insecure developing nations to their neighbors and right to the borders of the "rich" world, there won't be political will to live smaller, within the planet's limits. As a species, we're just not wired to think of indirect consequences that span millenia into the future. Hell, many go right back to eating cheeseburgers after coronary bypasses.

However, its just awful living with constant reminders of how hopeless the situation may in fact be. I personally aim to live small (vegan, public transport, small apt, sweaters over heating, etc), certainly well below my means, but I'm so tired of the despair, which infects everything. Better that we have politicians that at least make the right noises that they're aware of the situation and offer some sense of hope, than the willfully ignorant making arguments from personal incredulity. So, while I've got reservations that any politically palatable Green New Deal will deter people from using fossil fuels enough to make a marked difference in the world's fate, I'm 100% behind AOC and her GND just so we can have the illusion of hope.

xps i'm holding out for "do you think alexandria ocasio-cortez is a sociopath?"

lol!

Jonathan Chait thinks she's a socio-something].

While rightly insisting on the primacy of climate change, it betrays its own confidence by submerging climate policy into a broader array of priorities. It simultaneously argues that we must move with urgent speed on climate, but that we must first achieve comprehensive socialism in order to move.

life's a bitch

thread title is a ref to the old "what are barack obama's flaws" thread i assume

right

ILX can be hard to follow if you’re just tuning in; you gotta read some recaps of the backstory at least

Shoulda called it "Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: New, Green, and Deal!"

Wait, there’s a thread called What Are Barack Obama’s Flaws? I just thought it would be appropriate to highlight her shortcomings. Weird!

Alfred, actually it’s even worse, there are 4 politics threads to click back and forth between. It’s living hell!!!!!

lol xp

Climate scientists I've talked to, even the most hopeless about prospects for preventing catastrophic warming, tell me there's one thing that changes our orientation to the crisis. There's one thing that changes our sense of our shared capacity to fight for something better than falling victim to forces far beyond our control. It's not changing how we talk about it, or reading more or reading less about what's happening. It's taking action. It's easy to see No Future. It's harder to see something better -- and the only way we ever will is if we start building it today.

hoos for president

hoos sounding like he's on the stump!

definitely, they executed my grandma last year after a televised trial, it was awful

wow, your grandma got a trial?

I would be happy to have 4 AOC threads.

okay I waited six hours, this is some of the worst coffee I've ever had several cups of

http://www.quoteswave.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Even-Bad-Coffee-Is-Better-Than-No-Coffee-At-All.jpg

- Bob Marley

Man that's good

- Bob Marley

― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, February 9, 2019 12:01 AM (four hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

marilyn monroe iirc

It’s pretty wild that the GOP can’t decide whether they’re going to run with the conspiracy theory that I’m secretly rich, or the exaggeration & mockery of my family’s struggle after my dad died during the financial crisis.

Instead, they decide to defy logic and run with both.

— Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (@AOC) February 9, 2019

And her subjects gathered 'round her/Like the leaves around a tree.

GND rollout hasn’t exactly been the greatest the thing

ya. i hope she ditches Kelton soon

trump has weighed in on the GND, and he has no idea what a carbon footprint is

I think it is very important for the Democrats to press forward with their Green New Deal. It would be great for the so-called “Carbon Footprint” to permanently eliminate all Planes, Cars, Cows, Oil, Gas & the Military - even if no other country would do the same. Brilliant!

Doesn't sound so bad to me. Always found cows kinda smug tbh

this so-called "widely used unit of measurement"

Climate change produced extreme weather in Australia has been eliminating cows by the hundreds of thousands this summer.

ya. i hope she ditches Kelton soon

why flopson

This interview was interesting. Chuck Todd couldn't totally turn off his essential Chuck Todd-ness, but it's worth watching.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wypN0PChAtg

xp- j.

you don't pay for socialism by printing money. Scandinavia don't print money, they pay for popular social programs with high (by US standards) progressive but broad-based taxes. there is no other way to do it. it's true that deficit hysteria is overblown, but you don't need MMT to know that. and you can't pay for a permanent expansion in spending/transfers by printing money without costs. using taxes, we can make those costs transparent and choose them democratically. using MMT, the costs are opaque, depend on inflation, and ultimately punted into the future

MMT is a scam with significant parallels to cryptocurrency: shrouded in confusing jargon and terminology (accounting minutiae of fed balance sheets), funded by shady finance billionaires (Warren Mosler Jerome Levy, others), a large online community of die-hard believers who recite its arguments like the fn catechism in the mentions of anyone who tweets about it. seriously, it sucks so bad and i really hope the new gen of progressive politicians don't buy it. it's snake oil twitternomics. there's promising signs that AOC is reconsidering after the backlash to the GND FAQ they posted (and almost immediately took down, and are now claiming doesn't even exist) that cited MMT heavily. to the extent that AOC represents the dems' 'tea party' and exists to shift the overton window the center left, maybe citing crazypants MMT is a good thing. but i don't think MMT deserves to get play at the national level, from the left, and i think AOC's long-term ambitions are more than to be just a strategic counterweight

quotes below are from an MMT profile in the Atlantic a couple years ago. both Mosler and Levy are billionaire financiers

MMT didn’t get much traction outside of academia at first. In fact, it was (and remains) on the fringes of the economics profession itself. “We all had offices in the same alley at the Levy Institute,” Kelton recalls.

Then along came Warren Mosler, a wealthy financier who, as a result of his banking work, had come to some unorthodox and complementary ideas about money. Eager to share his views, Mosler finagled a meeting with Donald Rumsfeld in the steam room of the Chicago Racquet Club. Rumsfeld led him to Arthur Laffer, the right-wing economist who came up with the “Laffer curve” theory promoting low taxes, and Laffer, in turn, connected Mosler with his future collaborator, the economist Mark McNary. In an independently published paper titled “Soft-Currency Economics,” Mosler, drawing on McNary’s research, argued that taxes are what create a demand for federal spending and that deficits don’t cause countries to default on their debt.

Kelton is an intellectually disingenuous hack who went to bat for Trump tax cuts on MMT grounds that the deficit increases didn't matter. it's a total coincidence that she is associated with the left, which she herself has admitted in the past. from the same profile:

Kelton sees the fundamentals of her work as “a descriptive analysis that could be exploited by either side: Democrats and Republicans can use the insight to push tax cuts or increase spending.” Indeed, the idea of a big-spending economic stimulus to fix the country’s infrastructure served as a common ground for Trump and Sanders voters who liked the idea of jobs perhaps more than they disliked the idea of national indebtedness. If that’s what voters want, then MMT is a rare bird: an economic theory that not only validates their hunches, but contends that they’re the key to a healthy, stable, prosperous economy for all.

there are very good reasons we don't use functional finance rules (which were first proposed by Abba Lerner in the 50s, if not earlier) where treasury and central bank are consolidated and fiscal policy is used to control inflation. it's very hard for a government to credibly commit to controlling inflation, which is why every country has an independent CB that controls money supply/interest rates.

if you try to follow MMT logic all the way through you'll notice there's a huge bait and switch involved. we can print money to fund spending, and deficits don't matter because we can pay it off by printing money. the only thing that matter is if inflation erodes the value of the money we are using to pay off the deficit. but then we'll just use fiscal policy (cut spending, raise taxes) to bring down inflation. so all they did is punt the taxes and spending down the road, to something we'll deal with when inflation hits. they don't like saying this, that all gets you is to shift the budget constraint out to the inflation frontier, because (i) it's not original, everyone has known this for at least 50 years, and (ii) they prefer to present MMT as a magical new world with no constraints. to the left this means you can have a green new deal, basic income, job guarantee without raising taxes, to the right it means Republicans can pass an insanely regressive tax cut and that's perfectly fine because the deficit doesn't matter

if it’s wrong to believe the deficit doesn’t matter I don’t want to be right.

oh well that is disappointing. she's certainly talking herself up well then

i think i must have seen that marshall steinbaum fellow, who seemed legit, say something approving of her and hence

if it’s wrong to believe the deficit doesn’t matter I don’t want to be right.

― Norm’s Superego (silby), Saturday, February 9, 2019 8:44 PM (ten minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

saying 'the deficit doesn't matter' in the sense of, we don't need to freak out and pay it off is one thing. saying you can pay for anything forever and revenue doesn't matter is a different thing

i think i must have seen that marshall steinbaum fellow, who seemed legit, say something approving of her and hence

― j., Saturday, February 9, 2019 8:51 PM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

marshall is semi-legit and strategically neutral on MMT. he and kelton have work together about student debt that crisis that doesn't really rely on MMT

Her speaking voice sucks and she's going to have vocal problems pretty soon if she doesn't change it. I genuinely think a lot of "SHE'S DUMB!!!!" stuff coming from the right is an unconscious reaction to her voice. I think she's pretty all right generally, but the voice messes me up because 1. I'm old and 2. moms was an opera singer.

i like her voice

You're welcome to.

I mean, vernacular changes because folks like the new way of speaking. Dinosaurs don't like change, folks into voice production don't like undersupport and speaking head voice.

Her speaking voice sucks and she's going to have vocal problems pretty soon if she doesn't change it.

this is one of the weirdest things i've read here.

vocal coach DESTROYS AOC with head voice critique

loll

lmao this is a new one

Most women's speaking voices "traditionally" sucks trope.

I still love that Elizabeth Holmes affecting a deeper voice story.

Thanks for the MMT post, flopson. Very interesting.

"what i choose is my voice" - aoc

what about the voice of aoc

how did it get so high

i know those things end up mattering more than they should but I hadn't noticed anything bad about her voice(!) - thought pacing and delivery was very good in that corruption hearing thing

Have seen some weird "bernie and aoc are the same / bernie and aoc are NOT the same" stuff on twitter, which again seems to come down to this "democratic socialism is compatible with capitalism" / 'democratic socialism is not compatible with capitalism" stuff which is a bit niche interest to me. cba too much with too much labelling and naming just get the ball in the net and score a goal and thats what she is doing

I don't mind AOC's voice, but I agree with three word username that such cosmetic things matter. You may not want them to, and some people get upset if you even broach the subject, but they do, a lot. Women undoubtedly get singled out disproportionately for such complaints (and they're harsher, and more symbolically loaded for a woman), but I could definitely name many men where I couldn't get past the voice. I think of Jon Huntsman immediately--I cringed every time he spoke. Ted Cruz, independent of whatever nonsense he's spouting. Martin O'Malley. Closer to home, Doug Ford.

Bella Abzug and Shirley Chisholm had...unconventional... New York voices, didn't seem to hurt them much.

lads

I mean how has Booker not been mentioned

poll

Ted Cruz and Doug Ford, noted losers of elections

Perhaps millions of Trump voters have still never heard him speak.

Bella Abzug and Shirley Chisholm had...unconventional... New York voices, didn't seem to hurt them much.

Ted Cruz and Doug Ford, noted losers of elections

It doesn't work that way--it's totally subjective, totally irrational. Obviously, lots of people don't mind their voices at all. I'm sure Jon Huntsman sounds like Winston Churchill to some people, just like I'm sure Winston Churchill sounds like Sarah Palin to others. I'm not predicting results here--the point is, if enough people didn't like AOC's voice, that would be a problem for her.

I think the fact that it took like 10k posts about AOC before anyone brought up her voice points to it not being a problem

what the hell is happening itt

It took a weird detour, an ILX first.

Trump voters evidently love Trump's voice. Don't ask me why.

Based on this thread, agree--only one objection raised. How representative the people posting on this thread are of the larger populace, I don't know. Anyway, again, I'm agreeing with the underlying point in TWU's post, that's all.

it not only hasn't been mentioned until now on ILX, I've never once seen it mentioned on Twitter, Reddit (left, lib or right-wing), or in the press. this is Not A Thing.

You don't want it to be, anyway. I assume you want to believe that the Person With the Best Ideas automatically wins elections. If that makes you happy, carry on.

(If you're limiting your objection to AOC only, then sure, maybe you're right.)

jesus fuck

Now jesus fuck, he had a nice voice.

the idea that right-wingers are "unconsciously objecting" to a young woman of color who supports left-wing policy because she has a "head voice" is fucking stupid sorry

Is Three Word Username a right-winger? Because I was specifically making my point within the context of his dislike of AOC's voice.

her only flaws are: american + her voice

can you fucking read

I genuinely think a lot of "SHE'S DUMB!!!!" stuff coming from the right is an unconscious reaction to her voice.

idk these same people thought Obama was dumb despite the fact that he had pretty much the best voice of any President but it occurs to me there may be another reason for that

is the flaw that she's american the flaw that she's not british? it is a cliche but we could do with a few like her

No, I can't read Simon. Please move the conversation there.

My initial post came right after TWU's post. Everything I've said was in reference to that. I'm hardly saying that AOC's voice is going to be an obstacle she may have to overcome with Trump voters (and if she can just get past that, they'll embrace her).

ive seen people call her voice 'nerdy' before but haven't seen anyone suggest it's an impediment to anything

A voice is a voice

She just sounds like a young woman to me

A Fox News intern exposes AOC's flaws:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DgvfMreXcAAIvkn.jpg

I see now that TWU's post had that line about the right--I was focused on his objection to her voice. So, point taken, I should have read that post closer.

To clarify: I think something like AOC's (or anybody's) voice could matter in getting his or her party's nomination. It's just there, one of the many cosmetic factors that matter, even if you don't think they should. If enough people instinctively resist, you have a problem. But no, in AOC's case, the right's hatred of her is a whole other matter.

She just sounds like a young woman to me

― frogbs, Sunday, February 10, 2019 11:40 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Billy Joel's finest hour

clemenza take your concern trolling over to some Canadian politics thread where you might have a clue what you're talking about

I thought I had killfiled you, going to fix that right now

Shouldn't you be out patrolling the neighborhood for pretend punks? Please, whatever that means, please do so.

Her voice is good. She sounds like a young person from the new york metropolitan area.

hmmm sorry you did not include a spectrographic analysis, try again

folks into voice production don't like undersupport and speaking head voice.

this is 2019's blended haircut moment imo

symmetry demanded it

lol

The idea of people who are not literally communications strategists for the demcoratic party expending any thought ok something like a politician’s voice makes me want to die. Other people, i’m sure, feel similarly, making this a dangerous line of discussion.

we could do with a few like her
― imago, Sunday, 10 February 2019 16:34 (forty-three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

are u at it

? i literally do think that

Jess Phillips not good enough for you?

imagine if Jess Phillips, AOC and Wes Streeting could be blended together but with Hitler's oratory skillz.

Bill Clinton's voice also sucks. I am not a right winger, nor do I think her voice is the sole reason racist scumbags might think she's dumb. It is not her accent I object to -- she talks at the tipity-top of her natural voice in a way that makes me nuts. I could list 47 Hollywood actor dudes who I think talk way too high for my taste. Her voice just drives me nuts, so I prefer read what she says, and it's better for everyone.

Feel like the convo went from

"Btw she could work on her voice, all that speaking, she might damage it without working on it"

to

"Her smoky, non-diaphragmatic alto will make her lose Independent votes and swing the White House to Kodos"

in minutes.

I'd say "telephone game" but it's written down yo.

I appreciate your comprehending defense, N.

Her smoky, non-diaphragmatic alto

gonna borrow this for the next time I write about Meghan Trainor.

Jess Phillips not good enough for you?

― Wee boats wobble but they don't fall down (Tom D.), Sunday, February 10, 2019 5:23 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

seriously what is this meme that I like Jess Phillips, she is obviously awful

what is the most politically appropriate voice?

I think the thing I appreciate most about AOC right NOW, besides the obvious giving the party a needes kick to the left, is that her troll game is strong enough to make her opponents show their asses in fhe exact way she wants them to. I don't mean internet trolls, who were doing that since BBSes existed...but sitting politicians.

She just needles them in a way that makes them finally unable to toe the line of acceptability and make whatever sexist, racist, ageist insult possible.

Granted, anybody with a brain saw all that shit from the jump, but we need indie votes in 2020, and any time she can force an old white Pub Senator or Rep into a public, electronic unforced error that plays into the party's worst stereotype, I'm all for it.

Bill Clinton's voice also sucks.

lmao

Trump's voice is good, too

A suggestion on the 'AOC's voice' angle: read classicist Mary Beard's *Women & Power*. In one section she talks about going on TV & receiving oceans of violent Twitter threats in reply, which led her to tweet that "the misogyny is truly gobsmacking."

This was reported by one commentator in a mainstream British magazine in these terms: "'the misogyny is truly gobsmacking,' she whined."

Do these words matter? Of course they do, because they underpin an idiom that acts to remove the authority, the force, even the humor from what women have to say. It is an idiom that effectively repositions women back into the domestic sphere (people whine about things like the dishes); it trivializes their words, or it 're-privatizes' them. Contrast the 'deep-voiced' man with all the connotations of profundity the simple word 'deep' brings. It is still the case that when listeners hear a female voice, they do not hear a voice that connotes authority; or rather they have learned not to hear authority in it.

We find repeated stress throughout the ancient literature on the authority of the deep male voice in contrast to the female. Classical writers insisted that the tone and timbre of women's speech always threatened to subvert not just the voice of the male orator but also the social and political stability, the health, of the whole state.

There is another cultural connection revealed by the treatment of women who speak with authority: unpopular, controversial, or just plain different views are taken as indications of her stupidity. It is not that you disagree, it is that she is stupid: 'sorry, love, you just don't understand.' I've lost count of the number of times I've been called 'an ignorant moron.'

If y'all wanna pretend a Trump fan who hates women's voices posted, go nuts. And leave me out.

Three Word Username: What's yr opinion of the Greta Van Fleet dude's voice?

Is this whole tangent because of the thread title?

Bud I'm not calling you a Trump loving woman hater. Read the words again. The point being made is that discounting women for their voices is real and has deep roots in how we think and talk about rhetoric whether a Google News search suggests it's "a thing" or not. I'm trying to buttress your point that dislike that presents as rooted in the voice is a real phenomenon.

xp it's not a tangent, because of the thread title

But maybe that wasn't your point at all and I misunderstood you, fuck this stupid website xp

no way this website is cool

Bud I'm not calling you a Trump loving woman hater. Read the words again. The point being made is that discounting women for their voices is real and has deep roots in how we think and talk about rhetoric whether a Google News search suggests it's "a thing" or not. I'm trying to buttress your point that dislike that presents as rooted in the voice is a real phenomenon.

Neanderthal, a theatre performer, tracked where the reaction to TWU's post hurtled through the guardrail just fine, we could probably drop the whole thing now

although after

Her voice is good. She sounds like a young person from the new york metropolitan area.

― Trϵϵship, Monday, February 11, 2019 4:07 AM

The idea of people who are not literally communications strategists for the demcoratic party expending any thought (on) something like a politician’s voice makes me want to die.

― Trϵϵship, Monday, February 11, 2019 4:14 AM

I actually have had the thought before that someone will complain about her voice because it's not deep enough and I know how that plagues women to be taken seriously. It sucks.

x-post: Ah, no, you do understand my point, Hoos, sorry. Others gave been less generous and I get grumpy in response, shame on me. What I am saying is that I am having a strong visceral negative reaction to her voice (and really, it's her vocal production technique, not her unchangeable voice), but I'm conscious of it and don't dismiss her because of it. Other folks hear the same thing with a different set of prejudices and hear what they want to hear, which is "stupid and young and whiney". It's up to her what she wants to do with her voice entirely; I do think there could be some danger of vocal problems later, and that to me is a real reason to change your style of speaking when you enter a rhetoric job; appeasing misogynists is not a good reason to change.

xp sic, i don't understand why those were quoted. i was saying that 1.) i think her voice is fine, and 2.) regardless, the whole concern-trolling obsession with "optics"--i.e., "it's no problem to me, personally, but i just wonder how xyz will come across to voters in Michconsin"—makes me want to die.

it's so naturalized to "think like a strategist" now

it’s lightly amusing that you expressed an opinion about her voice, and then seven minutes later said that the very concept of (other) people even having an unexpressed opinion about her voice made you want to die

seven minutes is a long time. everyone says seven minute songs are long.

this is a bad thread

fwiw,the thread title is a reference to

what are barack obama's flaws?

i meant it as a compliment (barack obama had a relatively successful political career), not as a serious conversation starter. not everyone's going to understand the callback, but i figured the vast majority of ilxors would since we don't exactly get much new blood around these parts.

km, i know the reference i just think its funny how this is becoming every ilx politics thread.

i think i need sitewide mod privs so i can yellow card people into submission

what are m bison's flaws?

he doesnt have sitewide mod privs

i support that!

i was actually xposting to a few people upthread who hated the title

support the idea of you yellowcarding everyone i mean! xpost city

look at that, mailman delivering on sundays

anyway back to the topic...

one of AOC's flaws is that she cant grant me sitewide mod privs to own people on the politics thread in private via yellow carding

can we make aoc an honorary mod

xp Maybe she can. Send her a letter.

only if she supports the mean new deal (where i am mean to people on the Web funded by deficits)

the campaign season starts earlier and earlier

Meet your new mod (not a dictator)!

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e4/Bison_%28Super_Street_Fighter_II%29.png

honorary mods don't get banning privileges or anything like that. their picture is just on the wall of the ILX pizzeria.

wow please stop posting my thirst trap pictures from like 2 months ago, im a totally different person now

xp

thread should have been called who da fuq is AOC imo

Alabama Open Carry

We find repeated stress throughout the ancient literature on the authority of the deep male voice in contrast to the female.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28_0gXLKLbk

I think of AOC like Guru from Gangstarr, like did he have the must naturally great rap voice? probably not...but AOC's great personality, social media savvy and knack for being able to make political points really simple and impactful for people is like Guru's I'll lyrical skills...this is supported by her her progressive left agenda which is like the banging Premo beats of American politics....and the green new deal could be her Hard to Earn

ums with the most correct take, lock thread

Wait, but didn't Guru say that it's mostly the voice?

he did but i think he was projecting some of his insecurities tbh

god now I'm stuck with Thatcher's Miss Jean Brodie routine in my head

safe to say that at least some prominent people fell for the disinformation campaign that immediately popped up around the green new deal

Safe to say Green New Deal will be a staple of Trump's 2020 stump speech: “I really don’t like their policy of taking away your car, of taking away your airplane rights, of let’s hop a train to California, of you’re not allowed to own cows anymore," he said to cheers in El Paso.

— Philip Rucker (@PhilipRucker) February 12, 2019

hell, his own staff probably came up with the disinformation campaign

i thought her campaign are admitting that they posted the faq now, but with qualification that it was done prematurely? or is that ref to a different disinfo campaign

there was a fake version of it circulating that said men had to drink their own urine under this plan

in the actual plan, men have to drink everyone else's urine

right. under socialism, there wouldn't really be a concept of own's "own" urine anyway.

Territorial pissings.

lmfao treeship

right. under socialism, there wouldn't really be a concept of own's "own" urine anyway.

new board description please

If socialism means trough urinals, I'm out.

Romania had trough urinals under Ceausescu. Therefore socialism means having trough urinals. It's pure logic.

it's true, all the commies I know are always posting dank Ceausescu memes

Bravo Treeship

Albania's ultra-hardline communist dictator Hoxha dotted the countryside with concrete bomb shelters. Now that he's long gone and Albania is finally open, people often use them as toilets.

What goes around ...

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/23/Shkodër-apartmentwithbunker-2001.jpg/1920px-Shkodër-apartmentwithbunker-2001.jpg

Josh, are you across the street from me?

VERY IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT FROM @AOC. PLEASE PAY CAREFUL ATTENTION 🙏🏽 pic.twitter.com/Ogv5VUnjwL

— THE KID MERO 🇩🇴 (@THEKIDMERO) February 13, 2019

not important but very charming

She's having too much fun.

fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffolks pic.twitter.com/FvTHcmqdEs

— Simon Maloy (@SimonMaloy) February 13, 2019

here's a pretty legit flaw: she makes gross conservatives really horny

"no ice" is pretty good

That reason and logic liqueur sure is small.

I could go for a Marxarita right about now.

This is the first time in my life that I'm sad that I don't own a bar.

Late Term Abortion honestly (tasteless or no) sounds like a great name for a cocktail.

have y'all have Stalin Stale Ale? Too light even for an IPA imo

Late Term Abortion

2 oz gin
1oz lemon juice
1/2 oz grenadine
4 drops saline "tears"
egg white
dry shake ingredients for 10 seconds, then shake with ice for 10 seconds

Green New Deal

2oz mezcal
1oz green chartreuse
3/4 oz lime
2 drops absinthe
mint for garnish

Ah, for the simple pleasure of an Irish Car Bomb.

really hope AOC's old bar orders a print and frames that

Late Term Abortion - on demand.

Late Term Abortion honestly (tasteless or no) sounds like a great name for a cocktail.

― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, February 13, 2019 10:09 PM (twenty minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

only available for 20 minutes before closing.

xpost lol

only available for 20 minutes before closing.

+ all the time in december and april

again, what is up with the skin coloration on AOC here? I mean...that's not even a remote approximation.

I guess all non-European Americans are black?

That's almost Ronaldinho bottle opener-esque caricature

It's funny how Donald Trump thinks 'Let's hop a train to California' sounds bad.

To me, in London SE13, 'Let's hop a train to California' sounds impossibly romantic.

never hopped to Erith on a whim before? !

getting some flack for not sticking up for Ilhan Omar more - not sure if fair or not, not seen enough of whats been said

I often reflect on @AyannaPressley‘s words: “people closest to the pain should be closest to the power.”@IlhanMN is a Somali refugee. She has felt the ravages of war. Watching her question Trump’s envoy to VZ, who pled guilty to several Iran-Contra crimes, feels like justice. https://t.co/3mFv0lmAis

— Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (@AOC) February 14, 2019

here's a pretty legit flaw: she makes gross conservatives really horny

― frogbs

lol this is also a positive though, people tend to show their hand when they're horny

yeah......hand....

I've been struck by her accent lately, or relative lack thereof, especially for a Bronx born Puerto Rican. She sounds kind of midwestern when she speaks.

Jesse Jackson weighs in

Love this:

Dr. Martin Luther King used to teach that “cowardice asks the question, is it expedient? And then expedience comes along and asks the question, is it politic? Vanity asks the question, is it popular? Conscience asks the question, is it right? There comes a time when one must take the position that is neither safe nor politic nor popular, but he must do it because conscience tells him it is right.”

imagine if AOC actually had this kind of power

https://i.imgur.com/DoSvTD9.png

I am surprised they didn't go full tilt and say "thanks for the abortion!"

#Socialism Takes Capitalism Creates

insert "amazon pullout" joke.

"Job Creators Network is a nonpartisan organization whose mission is to educate employees of Main Street America, so we can protect the 85 million people who depend on the success of small businesses.

JCN provides business leaders and entrepreneurs with the tools to become the voice of free enterprise in the media, in Congress, in state capitals, in their communities, and their workplaces—allowing them to hold politicians accountable to job creators and their employees.

We are the voice of Main Street."

I know it's a lost cause, but the way pro-HQ2 people frame the "loss" that NYC has experienced is literally deranged. There was some classic Slate piece the other day where this moran was raging about all the lost tax revenue the new workers would have paid to the state like someone had set actual bags of money on fire.

socialism sucks!!! also we should give Amazon $3,000,000,000 in handouts!!!!

xp I guess fake billboard memes are a small business now

i don't know why i'm always surprised at the ineptitude of rightwing campaigns like this. any conservative that knows what "AOC" refers to already hates her because that's their entire media bubble is telling them to do 24/7. any other new yorker that knows what "AOC" means is going to look at the words "job creators network" and barf. all the people that don't know what "AOC" refers to - the majority of people, i'd say - will think it refers to some company or something

and any doofus that takes that hashtag seriously will accidentally tweet #socialism, followed by the words "takes capitalism creates"

you sure did slay some libs!

Small Businesses In Defending Destroyer Of Small Businesses SHOCKAH!

Americans are obsessed with the potential of everything. It's easy to fall in love with things that don't yet exist.

xp: For the past 6 years, every time I turn on my desktop monitor the screen is filled with the letters AOC. I've had a bit of cognitive dissonance over the new use.

I use AOC almost every day too; I get a thrill of this other use.

I like her response to the billboard, she turns it around quite nicely

Few things effectively communicate the power we’ve built in fighting dark money & anti-worker policies like billionaire-funded groups blowing tons of cash on wack billboards (this one is funded by the Mercers).

(PS fact that it’s in Times Sq tells you this isn’t for/by NYers.) https://t.co/B4QTPi1r2k

— Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (@AOC) February 21, 2019

xp: what is the old use?

she spelled whoa wrong in a tweet. huge flaw.

xpost: appellation d'origine contrôlée
in france it's how they basically regulate what products get the geographical designation camembert de normandie, bresse chicken, chablis, bourgogne etcetc.

but i think it's an acronym for a lot of things.

AOC and Ilhan were on his list.

A @gwupoe scoop: A LT in the US Coast Guard was arrested this week for drug and gun charges. It looked like a run of the mill case until the detention memo filed yesterday. He had a hit list, contacts with white supremacists, guns, and, again, was an Coastie assigned to HQ.

— Seamus Hughes (@SeamusHughes) February 20, 2019

I openly mused to my wife two weeks ago whether or not she was going to be an assassination target, simply because she reminds me of RFK in her charisma.

Americans are obsessed with the potential of everything. It's easy to fall in love with things that don't yet exist.

― Yerac, Wednesday, February 20, 2019 11:27 AM

yes that's why we can't tax the rich proportionally because when i win the lotto they ain't gonna take my money !

the temporarily embarrassed millionaire phenomenon is vastly overstated, I think. Has there ever been a time when taxing the rich wasn't polling well? That's why they always had to lie and pretend the estate taxes were going to soak you for selling your grandma's $85k house.

I know it's bad to make jokes about ass-assinations but someone on my fb was like "why was beto on that list? That's like wanting to ass-assinate the photocopy guy." LOL

the bigger question for me was Joe Scarborough but that made a lot more sense after remembering that Trump hates Morning Joe

stochastic terrorism in action

Scarborough has moved leftward in recent years, which for the rest of us who remember him in Congress means he's part of the loony center.

old now, but I liked this quick article
https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-political-scene/how-alexandria-ocasio-cortezs-allies-supplanted-the-obama-generation

quick someone get the spray bottle pic.twitter.com/itdOYLM4CD

— KT Nelson (@KrangTNelson) February 20, 2019

omg at "<<Rosario Dawsson séxy>>"; what a creepazoid

lové the uséléss accénts

(i think he just means "she's puerto rican," right?)

likély

maybe he could just sasháy himself off the internet

Self-proclaimed sapiosexuals are the worst

https://pics.esmemes.com/danger-iam-sapiosexual-if-you-had-to-look-it-up-12157140.png

love to remove people's brains and climax as I stroke the bare, still-pulsing amygdala

Jesus

xp

Someone please tell these yahoos that our entire species is sapient. It is right there in our Linnaean name.

the most important video of the week is @AOC being attacked by a constituent's dog pic.twitter.com/QkqXdQEeCL

— Bobby Lewis (@revrrlewis) February 21, 2019

that poor woman. that looked to be a bulldog. they are notorious slobberers.

what are Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's flaws? Well, she's definitely too nice to dogs.

https://splinternews.com/aoc-makes-her-first-grave-error-1832763255

haha

i lived in dc when navy yard was still building up. sounds like it sucks pretty hard now.

what is the "good" dc neighborhood she could have lived in, though? i used to love mine (bloomington/eckington) but from what i've heard it's also been completely gentrified now

bloomingdaaaale i meant

Congress heights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgYJgM9pFaA

petition to redo LeBron's barbershop show with AOC, Tlaib, and Omar.

Dog kiss attack is why dogs are better than cats.

My cats do this in their own way

Mindful that this edit is truncated, but that dog owner gives all dog owners a bad name. If you can't keep your dog from attacking or slobbering over strangers, then you don't need a dog too big to control.

This Rolling Stone interview is excellent.

You told Anderson Cooper you want people to underestimate you because that’s how you won your primary. When is it safe to let that go and unabashedly take charge?
People like to make these disparaging statements, like, “Oh, she’s good at Twitter. Is she gonna be an actual legislator?” I think it’s fine at the outset to be underestimated in that capacity. Where I do tell people to come correct is when they try to paint me as unintelligent, as unsubstantive. That’s when you see me fire back. When you call Elizabeth Warren or Kamala Harris “unlikable,” that’s an unsubstantial, unsubstantive, fluff, bullshit, misogynistic word to use. Unlikable? What is that? It’s not a policy critique. Paul Ryan was a con man for 10 years, and he was called a wunderkind for policies that were designed to just gut working families dry. But I’m the charlatan. So . . .

how dare you, AOC. paul ryan was the greatest policy genius of the last 80 years. he was a wonk! he was called a wonk! and so he was a wonk. he was a wonk because he got called a wonk, and if we turn back on that now, then what else was everyone lying about?

what is this feeling of not being disappointed in a politician

I am very interested in what people do (obviously) before they become politicians. It's so dramatic when someone actually wants to help. And not in the saving all the unborn/nonexistant babies type of way. Like it really weirds me out when pastors go into politics (I mean I get what they are after), but such a large amount of the people that go into politics it's either i)enrichment or ii) some kind of ennui with their current career choice iii) unfulfilled white man destiny.

tbrr, if you weren't broke or near broke at some point in your life, i don't want to hear shit from you about politics or ethics or morals or policing or economics

i have been near-broke for 2 years and will be for another 3-4, in grad school in economics lol

glad forks will listen to my opinions :)

like if you never had to check your balance before payday to make sure you can cover fast food dinner you can't fucking relate to normal people

xpost but instead of obtaining empathy from being poor, a lot of politicians choose to make it " bootstraps self mythologizing fuck those lazy poor people".

btw if anyone wants to read an 8000 word version of my MMT post up thread by a left-pugilist writer whose tweets morbs c/p’s into random politics threads i strongly recommend this post by Doug Henwood in new jacobin https://www.jacobinmag.com/2019/02/modern-monetary-theory-isnt-helping

my dad was a teacher before he ran for public office and it always burned me tf up when people would claim he was some kind of fat cat. he was an english teacher.

ya it’s kind of a dumb rule. i mean as long as you make exceptions for ppl who really pull off the ‘traitor to their class’. FDR was a rich bitch iirc

I usually only look up GOP or really interesting dems. It's always a lot of lawyers, pastors, "businessmen", or career politicians.

even the career politicians did something before they were elected to public office

"Roosevelt held little passion for the practice of law and confided to friends that he planned to eventually enter politics" (wiki) HA!

the career politicians I am thinking about were the ones that were interning for other politicians out of college and got various jobs working for politicians.

if anyone's watching the Cohen hearing, she got him to implicate Trump in like 3 more felonies in a matter of about two minutes

not only did she get Cohen to name names but also provided groundwork to subpoena his tax returns

FUCK YOU MEADOWS

tbrr, if you weren't broke or near broke at some point in your life, i don't want to hear shit from you about politics or ethics or morals or policing or economics

on the other end of this, i am soooooo beyond tired of multimillion dollar politicians. i don't know any of these people in real life, and the one that i do is a complete asshole who is so detached from reality that it's fascinating, in its own way. how absurd that the vast majority of the population is made up of people made up of people who will never get close to 6 digits in their bank accounts, represented by politicians who will never close to 5 digits

The Democrat appearing in CPAC videos and speeches the most, by far: @AOC. More than any 2020 Dem. An Oliver North-narrated NRA video just ended with the footage of her dancing outside her office, with the color drained to make it look more ominous.

— Dave Weigel (@daveweigel) February 28, 2019

"more ominous"

Elie Mystal had a very nice take that the freshman dem congresswomen were magnitudes better than anyone else during the hearing(s) because they already know how to capture an audience whenever they want and they don't need tv to do it. Everyone else is making soliloquies and trying to manufacture their moment because they never get national attention.

so therefore they could take that time to actually work and govern.

I wonder if after yesterday’s hearing conservatives still think my staff is “overpaid.” 😉 https://t.co/us4I3BpobK

— Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (@AOC) February 28, 2019

Also they are old establishment dorks that are actually good buddies with the other old jerks on the right

I really liked this quote from her interview - I'd never thought about it this way before

One of the things that I bring to the table is a visceral understanding that people under 40 have been shaped by an entirely different set of events. We’ve literally grown up in different Americas. They were shaped by a Cold War America, a post-World War II America; and we are an Iraq War America, a 9/11 America, a hyper-capitalism-has-never-worked-for-us, Great Recession America. People are used to talking about millennials as if we’re teenagers. We’re in our thirties now. We’re raising kids and getting married and having families, and we have mortgages and student-loan debt. It’s important that [Congress is] in touch. People tend to interpret this as me railing against older people and being ageist. But that’s not what this is about. It’s a problem of representation. We don’t have enough intergenerational representation. We largely have one generation. That’s not to say that one generation should be out of power, it’s that others should be here as well.

seems pertinent, especially given the fact that there are people being deployed to Afghanistan now who weren't even born when 9/11 happened

She’s wonderful.

A godsend. When I first heard of her victory—twentysomething dem socialist from the bronx—I was excited but I didn’t expect her to immediately be the most on point member of congress.

yeah, hopefully they raise the bar immediately, because the 3 of them in a row really showed up the entire committee. boom boom boom.

I didn't think Tlaib (sp?) and Omar made especially useful contributions. i think their affect was more appealing to me -- I empathized with the nature of their outrage. but I'm not sure what they got done. i recognize that getting something "done" can be interepreted a number of ways, and maybe Tlaib making Rep. Meadows sputter and gasp was itself some sort of small achievement. but the focus and organization that AOC brought to the hearing was something else.

I thought Ayanna P was really good and I enjoyed Meadows melting down and that Tlaib brought up what everyone was thinking.

it wasn't Omar, it was Ayanna Pressley (who apparently is 45 years old? I would've guessed at least a decade younger). I thought she was good but AOC clearly had a measured strategy and it was immediately apparent that hers was the most fruitful line of questioning: she got several additional names out of him and effectively got him to say "there are probably additional crimes and/or corroborating evidence in the tax returns"

I assume Tlaib had good questioning as well (too lazy to go back and rewatch), the Meadows debacle overshadowed it obv.

also this is insane to rank them in terms of jobs well done. All three were noticeable better than most/all. AOC is the winner if we are going there. sheesh.

I wonder how much the committee members coordinate their questioning. "AOC you focus on the exaggerated financials, ABC you follow this line of questioning, XYZ that line of questioning..." and among Republicans "Jordan you be the main attack dog, Meadows you introduce the black lady, you three have articles entered into the record" etc. There has to be some coordination.

btw I love that Tlaib's comment got that Meadows birtherism video out again. I wish she'd brought it up but I'm guessing she didn't know about it. this is one of my favorite things about the new congresswomen - they're not out to make friends. the moment where Cummings said something like, "you might not believe it, but Meadows and I are actually best friends" felt really slimy to me.

and among Republicans "Jordan you be the main attack dog, Meadows you introduce the black lady, you three have articles entered into the record" etc. There has to be some coordination.

lol every Republican did the exact same thing

"Mr. Cohen, is it true that you are a no-good dirty liar??"
"Mr. Cohen, is it also true that you are a fraud and that this hearing is a sham?"
"Mr. Cohen, will you agree to donate all of your money to charity right now?"

AOC is on another level than Omar. She's clear, confident, to the point, doesn't grandstand, makes substantive contributions, etc. She's a political wizard. Omar struggles to articulate her thoughts, she mostly produces political outrage soundbites. It's just not apples to apples.

I am glad that AOC has pointed out that women (women of color) have to work twice as hard to get where they are but in doing that extra work know how to perform when they need to.

yes fuck that shit "you might not believe it, but Meadows and I are actually best friends" i can;t even be facebook friends with assholes that voted for Trump much less be friends with people actively covering for him in congress and enabling his bullshit .

My mom: "You know I've really changed my mind about AOC, she's great!"
Me: :)
My mom: "I think she could be the next Nancy Pelosi"
Me: :/

xxxp yea Omar is sort of what I expected AOC to be - great policy views and not afraid to call out the GOP's constant hypocrisy but she's not the best speaker and her political instincts are a little off sometimes. not that I had reason to doubt AOC but you kinda expect that out of a 29-year old w/ no political experience. it's apparent now that AOC is basically a generational talent, like Mike Trout if Mike Trout had spent his teenage years making Subway sandwiches

I think Omar is fine as a speaker. She has an accent and I assume slows down her speech to make sure that she is clearly heard.

As soon as I told me spouse that AOC won a prize at the Intel ISEF he was like, ohhh she must be really smart and was sold on her.

You know, guys - by which I mean MALE POSTERS - you don’t have to dunk on one extremely talented woman in politics to show how much more talented you think her colleague and ally is. Maybe you’re not used to being told how sexist this looks, so please do take it on the chin.

lol ok suzy

haha^^^ yeah xpost. That shit above is insane. they can't help themselves.

feel like accusations of sexism when someone is pointing out differences between two women politicians who are often compared to one another is pretty incoherent but if you really want to shut down any criticisms maybe try islamophobia?

AOC is on another level to almost anyone else in congress.

Is Omar compared to AOC a lot? I am totally unaware of this. Is that why she is even being brought up on what was a positive take that the dem freshwomen in general did a great job yesterday.

Elie Mystal had a very nice take that the freshman dem congresswomen were magnitudes better than anyone else during the hearing(s) because....

― Yerac, Thursday, February 28, 2019 10:39 AM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This was the post that precipitated Mordy's comments abt Omar. He wasn't pulling two women out of thin air. Calling sexism on that is bullshit.

oh because I put that (s) after hearing? OKKKKKK.

tbh i think gummy's comment confused me above so mea culpa

I think it was from Gummy accidentally saying Omar instead of Ayanna.

xpost.

ftr AOC is an incredible talent and i'm more impressed with her all the time, i don't think it makes sense to claim that there's an entire class that is at her level.

yeah i didnt read sexism at all but i'm just a dumb dude so idk

xps wait was there not a conversation grouping these three together and suggesting that each was superior to all the other commitee mebers? I hardly see how identifying Omar's percieved shortcomings in this context is sexist.

I think just as a general guideline, regardless of exactly what happened/who xposted/etc itt, it's nice to remember that when discussing our current rockstar new electeds, there doesn't always need to be a "winner" or direct comparisons made in order to say nice things about others.

AOC was solid as a rock yesterday. So excited for her future success.

Yerac I wasn't taking issue w what you wrote btw

It's because Omar wasn't there yesterday (unless I missed it).

I have no idea why dudes brought her up, apart from to knock her in comparison to AOC. She did a similar style great job on her Elliott Abrams questions the other day. I think they’re both really good.

Dudes, if someone’s telling you to consider your analysis might be a bit sexist/misogynoir, and that was not your overt intention, consider it might be an undercurrent. In any event, you did characterise the darker woman as over-emotional and less reliable than her colleague.

wtf