What are Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Flaws?

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ok, enough is enough. she gets a thread.

Karl Malone, Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:20 (eight months ago) link

haha nice callback title

sleeve, Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:21 (eight months ago) link

cool now we have four US politics threads

legislative fanboy halfwit (Οὖτις), Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:21 (eight months ago) link

She's fairly disrespectful to our president, for a start.

But people get sick on earth in their human form (Old Lunch), Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:22 (eight months ago) link

she's so awesome she makes everyone else look bad

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:22 (eight months ago) link

excellent title

bhad bundy (Simon H.), Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:22 (eight months ago) link

if people don't want to use it, they won't

Karl Malone, Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:22 (eight months ago) link

xp

Karl Malone, Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:23 (eight months ago) link

sharp knees

mh, Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:23 (eight months ago) link

american

||||||||, Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:24 (eight months ago) link

If she's able to maintain her political stance (and especially if she winds up being an effective legislator) I would be very comfortable casting a prez vote for her once she's eligible to run.

But people get sick on earth in their human form (Old Lunch), Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:25 (eight months ago) link

i think she's wonderful. one thing i especially like about her is that she seems adept at forming a posse of like-minded legislators. she's good at sharing her political fame and recognition and using it to boost others.

Karl Malone, Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:26 (eight months ago) link

in before someone suggests she's nominated for president
xp fuck just missed it.

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:26 (eight months ago) link

name has 5-4-2 syllable pattern: last name should have three syllables

mh, Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:26 (eight months ago) link

left-handed, so she's pretty much limited to 1B or the outfield

mookieproof, Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:27 (eight months ago) link

Alexandria / Ocasio-Cortez is / a living haiku.

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:27 (eight months ago) link

the main reason for this thread is that she is an excellent twitterer, so maybe her daily handful of zings can go here instead of the other threads.

however, if i worry about anything with AOC, it's that one day she's going to slip up in some major way, probably on twitter. the right wing is foaming at the mouth to take her down because they recognize what a beacon she's already become.

buuuuut, the great thing about AOC is that i would have more confidence in her than just about anyone else to bounce back quickly from a hypothetic major twitter fuckup. as our wise president says "we'll see what happens"

Karl Malone, Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:29 (eight months ago) link

Left-handed? Excellent.

suzy, Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:38 (eight months ago) link

yeah i was going to say how bad can she really fuck up on twitter that will make what these assholes say about here matter to anyone but them?

(•̪●) (carne asada), Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:39 (eight months ago) link

about her*

(•̪●) (carne asada), Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:39 (eight months ago) link

She cares too much

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:40 (eight months ago) link

her ability to get the right to constantly self-own without even doing anything is incredible. at first I thought the "they're terrified of her" thing was overblown but they clearly are. not just because she's so far left but also because I don't think she's willing to "play ball" the way people like Schumer and Obama were. plus the fact that she's young and massively popular will only encourage more like her to come out of the woodwork which could shape US politics for decades to come. she's only been in office for a month but she already feels like an icon.

frogbs, Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:44 (eight months ago) link

God, does this woman have a gazillions tons of hope resting on her shoulders or what?

Wee boats wobble but they don't fall down (Tom D.), Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:48 (eight months ago) link

I look forward to many years of right-wing sputtering about the outrageous policy positions of this lefty commie socialist who okay is very attractive but that's not the point because she's going to destroy this country perhaps even with her smoldering good looks.

But people get sick on earth in their human form (Old Lunch), Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:48 (eight months ago) link

I think the biggest thing she can achieve, especially in the near term, is to inspire more like minded young politicians to run.

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:50 (eight months ago) link

however, if i worry about anything with AOC, it's that one day she's going to slip up in some major way, probably on twitter. the right wing is foaming at the mouth to take her down because they recognize what a beacon she's already become.

they already have. You should read "smart" conservatives like Charles Cooke and Noah Rothman patiently explaining like Paul Muni as Zola how her plans are untenable. They don't get how she's using conservative methods since the Reagan-Poppy era: float a trial balloon, then watch as people accommodate.

Your sweetie-pie-coo-coo I love ya (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:50 (eight months ago) link

she came out too fully formed as an awesome politician and therefore must actually be either an alien or a veteran operative in disguise

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:50 (eight months ago) link

fwiw I maintain muted expectations about what she can actually achieve in the system but so far she has exceeded them

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:51 (eight months ago) link

https://libcom.org/news/abolishing-ice-funding-it-07012019

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:51 (eight months ago) link

she's already exceeded expectations. no one was talking about a Green New Deal or a 70% top rate before she came along.

frogbs, Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:52 (eight months ago) link

imo her strength so far has been to say exactly enough, or to respond with tongue-in-cheek fact checks about her stances without jumping into clusterfucks

having someone with actual policy stances without a political or even social past deep enough to sabotage dialogue in favor of ad hominem attacks is a net positive. media and public commentary almost demands a personality or face to link policy to, because policy is abstract and complicated and presenting an individual makes the job easier. if she's that person, have at it

it's a refreshing change from the right-wing version in the tea party goons, who had notional policy ideas and were 90% horrible personality and demagoguery

mh, Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:53 (eight months ago) link

https://libcom.org/news/abolishing-ice-funding-it-07012019

― xyzzzz__, Thursday, February 7, 2019 1:51 PM (forty-eight seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is kind of bullshitty. She voted for the bill to reopen govt.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:53 (eight months ago) link

btw it does pain me to bring up the "Trump of the left" thing but it does occur to me that she's *actually* good at all the political stuff that people thought Trump was good at

frogbs, Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:54 (eight months ago) link

xp

This was not a catch-all bill to reopen the federal government, which has been shut down for weeks while Trump refuses to sign a budget until he gets funding for a border wall. That was a different vote. No, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi scheduled an entirely separate vote solely on funding the Department of Homeland Security.

sleeve, Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:54 (eight months ago) link

Alfred's post reminds me of an article about perpetual ratfucker Gingrich, who was wildly successful at his goals until the day he wasn't

mh, Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:55 (eight months ago) link

iirc she has changed her tack on how she votes for bills like that one. she recently was the sole dem holdout on another funding bill I believe?

bhad bundy (Simon H.), Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:56 (eight months ago) link

yeah I was gonna say that libcom link falls more under "legit critique of a particular action" than a "flaw" and if she's already moved on from that stance then so much the better.

sleeve, Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:58 (eight months ago) link

the way Congress operates you kind of have to either vote for some bad things or not vote for some good things because it all comes in the same bill. I don't think she'd actually vote against abolishing ICE if such a thing were to come up.

frogbs, Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:58 (eight months ago) link

Cool thanks I wasn't really buying it too much (basically if you fuck with electoralism lib com goes after you)

But that's the only thing I've seen (and I almost always only entertain critiques of left-politicians from the left)

I was reading this piece on her call with Corbyn and she was swayed a bit on the allegations he is an anti-semite. That's more a product of doing too much twitter where everyone tweets to you with their agendas.

https://www.currentaffairs.org/2019/02/how-to-think-clearly-about-anti-semitism-controversies-in-the-labour-party

But if the worst thing is that she might tweet something that isn't so good at times then she's doing amazing.

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 7 February 2019 18:58 (eight months ago) link

they already have. You should read "smart" conservatives like Charles Cooke and Noah Rothman patiently explaining like Paul Muni as Zola how her plans are untenable. They don't get how she's using conservative methods since the Reagan-Poppy era: float a trial balloon, then watch as people accommodate.

― Your sweetie-pie-coo-coo I love ya (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, February 7, 2019 1:50 PM (seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Trump methods too. You float something outrageous (end birthright citizenship), everyone goes "THAT'S PREPOSTEROUS" and then the "smart" and "reasonable" people say "well actually lots of countries don't have birthright citizenship at all." Now you've shifted the debate into your territory, and maybe you can't change the constitution in that particular case, but you've weakened resistance to tighter immigration laws.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 7 February 2019 19:00 (eight months ago) link

I realize a lot of people *say* that Trump does this, but I don't think that's true - were there not a bunch of so-called smart conservatives who insisted that the "wall" was just a metaphor for "strong border security", which he's rejected over and over again because he actually wants a big dumb physical wall?

frogbs, Thursday, 7 February 2019 19:03 (eight months ago) link

I'm still laughing at this tweet chain where her chief of staff was clued in not to take a meeting with known grifters (original post deleted but you get the jist)

This guy is a dingbat grifter, take the time to do 3 seconds of googling bro

— Dan (@dankmtl) February 4, 2019

mh, Thursday, 7 February 2019 19:03 (eight months ago) link

man alive otm way upthread. It’s almost spooky how skilled and self assured she is this early in her career. Like a Mozart or Tiger Woods of politics.

Trϵϵship, Thursday, 7 February 2019 19:05 (eight months ago) link

frogbs otm, that would be the real overton window shifting strategy, but Trump literally doesn't understand it and is obsessed with numbers

If he were to get six billion he's still not building a wall, he's saying "we built it" and just tossing the money at the border patrol/DHS and never calling them to check to see where it went

he's stuck on six billion = wall

mh, Thursday, 7 February 2019 19:05 (eight months ago) link

I realize a lot of people *say* that Trump does this, but I don't think that's true - were there not a bunch of so-called smart conservatives who insisted that the "wall" was just a metaphor for "strong border security", which he's rejected over and over again because he actually wants a big dumb physical wall?

― frogbs, Thursday, February 7, 2019 2:03 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Trump personally is a mental and emotional child. I mean Stephen Miller and the like.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 7 February 2019 19:05 (eight months ago) link

man alive otm way upthread. It’s almost spooky how skilled and self assured she is this early in her career. Like a Mozart or Tiger Woods of politics.

― Trϵϵship, Thursday, February 7, 2019 2:05 PM (fifteen seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I literally told a friend I thought she could be president back when we weren't even sure if she could win her primary. I don't attribute that to any special insight, it's plain to see.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 7 February 2019 19:06 (eight months ago) link

She’s actually impressive in an age of mass disillusionment.

Trϵϵship, Thursday, 7 February 2019 19:08 (eight months ago) link

I mean decisively taking down a well-liked establishment dude like Crowley with like 5% of the funding and no corporate endorsements whatsoever is legit one of the most impressive political accomplishments I've ever witnessed

frogbs, Thursday, 7 February 2019 19:08 (eight months ago) link

for sure

although "well-liked" might be a stretch -- I think he was a bit complacent and absent from his district, leaving more of an opening than realized. But def well-connected in queens overall. I mean, chair of the queens democratic party, mr. machine.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 7 February 2019 19:10 (eight months ago) link

I like her a lot and think she has a bright future, including a possible path to the presidency if she chooses to pursue it (which is a bit difficult to do from the House, historically). There is, of course, still plenty of time for her to flame out or not deliver on big legislative priorities, but so far she's been very sure-footed and she has excellent priorities and communications skills.

legislative fanboy halfwit (Οὖτις), Thursday, 7 February 2019 19:10 (eight months ago) link

her main flaw appears to be her mortality and lack of imperviousness to bullets fired by white nationalists

imago, Thursday, 7 February 2019 19:11 (eight months ago) link

xp - he was like 3rd in line for Speaker, right?

frogbs, Thursday, 7 February 2019 19:12 (eight months ago) link

xp

Uhhhh.....

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Thursday, 7 February 2019 19:13 (eight months ago) link

main reason for this thread is that she is an excellent twitterer, so maybe her daily handful of zings can go here instead of the other threads.


this is an argument against a fourth thread

The Very Fugly Caterpillar (sic), Thursday, 7 February 2019 19:14 (eight months ago) link

xps iirc the last recent notable political assassination was in the UK, let's not throw stones shall we?

sleeve, Thursday, 7 February 2019 19:14 (eight months ago) link

Steve Scalise and Gabby Giffords, tho

It really isn't funny to joke about at all

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Thursday, 7 February 2019 19:18 (eight months ago) link

otm

sleeve, Thursday, 7 February 2019 19:18 (eight months ago) link

steve scalise jokes are funny cause he survived and he's fucking asshole. Speculating about political assassinations that haven't happened is not particularly funny imho

bhad bundy (Simon H.), Thursday, 7 February 2019 19:21 (eight months ago) link

"I hope she doesn't get assassinated" has an uncomfortable undertone of concern trolling

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 7 February 2019 19:23 (eight months ago) link

I'm still amazed no one managed to take a pop at Obama over 8 years

legislative fanboy halfwit (Οὖτις), Thursday, 7 February 2019 19:27 (eight months ago) link

I'm just voicing everyone's fear. I really, really hope she is able to fulfil her apparent destiny

imago, Thursday, 7 February 2019 19:28 (eight months ago) link

I hate even speculating about it, but other than just the level of security presidents now have, I chalk it up to there probably being about an equally small number of people with sufficient motive and means to assassinate any president, like it's just always a small pool of people, racist or not.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 7 February 2019 19:29 (eight months ago) link

i'm amazed any of us are alive tbh

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Thursday, 7 February 2019 19:33 (eight months ago) link

Take heart in the fact that political assassinations/assassination attempts are frequently the work of apolitical nutballs trying (for wholly-fabricated example) to drum up attention for their hand modeling career by taking a crack at a Missouri state senator who they mistook for Count Chocula. Very rarely is there any reasoned intention behind the act.

But people get sick on earth in their human form (Old Lunch), Thursday, 7 February 2019 19:38 (eight months ago) link

she really is an icon already

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DywzDuTUYAAopLa.jpg:large

frogbs, Thursday, 7 February 2019 19:38 (eight months ago) link

I wonder how long before the right tries to paint her as Eva Peron? You just know they are waiting to exploit even the tiniest cracks they can drive a wedge into. Some cracks they can exploit are bound to show up, especially as the left begins to pile more and more hopes on her and place greater demands for taking leadership on her shoulders. I hope she can assemble a very strong and astute group of staff and informal advisors to take some of that load. She's young, smart and strong, but she's human, too.

A is for (Aimless), Thursday, 7 February 2019 19:46 (eight months ago) link

she has a staff and she doesn't need to spend time on fundraising calls. she has more time than any of them to strategize

bhad bundy (Simon H.), Thursday, 7 February 2019 19:47 (eight months ago) link

first there would have to be americans who knew who eva peron was besides a madonna role

Mordy, Thursday, 7 February 2019 19:48 (eight months ago) link

the right going all-out on her might backfire when there's suddenly a dozen more AOC-like candidates in 2022

frogbs, Thursday, 7 February 2019 19:48 (eight months ago) link

stfu lj

alomar lines, Thursday, 7 February 2019 19:49 (eight months ago) link

one of the coolest things about AOC is when she says something that even my right-wing friends are forced to agree with. this has happened multiple times already!

Mordy, Thursday, 7 February 2019 19:49 (eight months ago) link

she has triggered so many people so easily, it's astonishing.

omar little, Thursday, 7 February 2019 19:51 (eight months ago) link

she may be a bit more of a unicorn than the vanguard of a future wave of AOC clones

A is for (Aimless), Thursday, 7 February 2019 19:51 (eight months ago) link

"I hope she doesn't get assassinated" has an uncomfortable undertone of concern trolling

― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 7 February 2019 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

otm. If you are going to change things, that's what you'll face.

The bigger point is to build a network of left-politicians so the thing doesn't fall apart over one bullet. Not interested in this great person will save us all narrative because its ultimately up to us all.

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 7 February 2019 19:53 (eight months ago) link

She seems to have triggered trump and his speechwriters already, too. The reference to socialism in his SOTU seemed like just as much a shot at AOC and her crew as it was at Bernie Sanders

Karl Malone, Thursday, 7 February 2019 19:53 (eight months ago) link

The focus on her salary, clothes, what she did 10 years ago etc. really reminiscent of when Corbyn first came along here.

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 7 February 2019 19:54 (eight months ago) link

lol, about 80 posts in an hour and five of them are "did we HAVE to make this thread", uh, yeah

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Thursday, 7 February 2019 19:55 (eight months ago) link

it is amazing how every shot they've taken at her has backfired - amplifying her policy views, spreading videos of her being fun and cool, revealing that they have no clue how marginal tax rates work...isn't this the sort of thing the GOP is supposed to be good at?

frogbs, Thursday, 7 February 2019 20:02 (eight months ago) link

The real problem is that the Democrats have been afraid to push back because they thought the main things Americans want are civility and politeness.

As it turns out, the main thing Americans actually want is a future.

GDPR vs GAPDY (DJP), Thursday, 7 February 2019 20:11 (eight months ago) link

isn't this the sort of thing the GOP is supposed to be good at?

lol not really

legislative fanboy halfwit (Οὖτις), Thursday, 7 February 2019 20:12 (eight months ago) link

(So, when someone pops up who unabashedly and unashamedly says "here is an actual left vision for the future that most people can grasp/imagine", the Right can't do much about it because all of their attacks have been predicated on the notion that the people they're attacking are too polite to baldly call bullshit)

GDPR vs GAPDY (DJP), Thursday, 7 February 2019 20:13 (eight months ago) link

the right has been called on their bullshit over and over again, but now that message has found a better messenger.

A is for (Aimless), Thursday, 7 February 2019 20:15 (eight months ago) link

The bigger point is to build a network of left-politicians so the thing doesn't fall apart over one bullet. Not interested in this great person will save us all narrative because its ultimately up to us all.

― xyzzzz__, Thursday, 7 February 2019 19:53 (twenty-four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

y'all ready for this?

xyzzzz otm. let this be the start of something

imago, Thursday, 7 February 2019 20:18 (eight months ago) link

Not interested in this great person will save us all narrative because its ultimately up to us all.

yep

Your sweetie-pie-coo-coo I love ya (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 7 February 2019 20:20 (eight months ago) link

yea I mean look at all the young, history-making Dem reps elected in 2018 (nearly all female) - hopefully that is what winds up being Trump's political legacy

frogbs, Thursday, 7 February 2019 20:25 (eight months ago) link

great man theory, even if it's great woman, is def played out but i dig AOC and am hopeful she's a force for good for the long term

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Thursday, 7 February 2019 20:42 (eight months ago) link

she didnt ummm split tips correctly at the end of the night or something (?)

global tetrahedron, Thursday, 7 February 2019 20:48 (eight months ago) link

She came dancing across the water. (Not a flaw.)

clemenza, Thursday, 7 February 2019 20:52 (eight months ago) link

she was a johnny-come-lately phoenix fan

global tetrahedron, Thursday, 7 February 2019 20:58 (eight months ago) link

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4778221/rep-ocasio-cortez-explains-broken-system

^ this is not fun to watch but fun to hear her go

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Thursday, 7 February 2019 21:04 (eight months ago) link

I did find this FB post from yesterday amusing:

http://dellioandwoods.files.wordpress.com/2019/02/cortez.jpg?resize=219%2C219

"When you see a Strong Woman in real life for the first time."

I like her a lot, but I don't know, that might be a little wishful thinking there. I really don't think that's what's going on in that photo.

clemenza, Thursday, 7 February 2019 21:06 (eight months ago) link

reframing it that way makes sense, because it is out there already and the other framing drags down everyone in it

A is for (Aimless), Thursday, 7 February 2019 21:20 (eight months ago) link

another 'trying to make her look bad but making her even cooler' moment

.@aoc has a 430 credit score, two evictions, and an empty résumé

Just two months ago, she couldn’t afford an apartment in DC

Now, the Democratic leadership has put her on the Financial Services Committee & the media is saying that her Green New Deal will “reshape” the economy

— John LeFevre (@JohnLeFevre) February 7, 2019

global tetrahedron, Thursday, 7 February 2019 21:36 (eight months ago) link

I know conservatives haaaate strong women, so I was preparing myself to see a lot of unfortunate shit posted about her, but I've been honestly shocked at the absolutely disgusting stuff my conservative family and high school acquaintances have been posting on FB for her. It really is horrifying.

soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 7 February 2019 21:40 (eight months ago) link

i've seen a lot of memes calling her crazy and stupid but honestly in a post-trump world is all feels pretty desperate

Mordy, Thursday, 7 February 2019 21:46 (eight months ago) link

maybe we need another civil war

legislative fanboy halfwit (Οὖτις), Thursday, 7 February 2019 21:48 (eight months ago) link

a task of movements must be to act to produce politicians beholden to them: movement politicians willing to fight to advance movement demands while the movements continue outside agitation. this is to say that we must do more than wait on the next AOC to emerge. we have to act to produce the next AOC.

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 7 February 2019 21:50 (eight months ago) link

xp: I don't know about "need" but it seems like we're headed that way

Maybe we can combine it with the impending class war and get them both over, like ripping off a particularly troublesome bandaid that will end up murdering half the world

GDPR vs GAPDY (DJP), Thursday, 7 February 2019 21:50 (eight months ago) link

maybe throw in a little WWIII just to clear the plate completely

Karl Malone, Thursday, 7 February 2019 21:52 (eight months ago) link

do it right this time

legislative fanboy halfwit (Οὖτις), Thursday, 7 February 2019 21:54 (eight months ago) link

would def draw down our GHG emissions

legislative fanboy halfwit (Οὖτις), Thursday, 7 February 2019 21:54 (eight months ago) link

maybe we need another civil war

https://youtu.be/pSANTRnEBgg?t=53

Stateleee, Plump Buck Mulleeegan (Leee), Thursday, 7 February 2019 21:56 (eight months ago) link

HOOS otm

like I said, actionable policy positions are #1, but you have to hang them on to a person in order to gain any traction because everything is so personality-based. get some more people in office who can, at the least, recite the policy points and hold firm to them is everything

mh, Thursday, 7 February 2019 21:57 (eight months ago) link

Don't this was posted yet

‘We have a system that is fundamentally broken.’ — Rep. @AOC is explaining just how f*cked campaign finance laws really are pic.twitter.com/7rRXf9pD6Z

— NowThis (@nowthisnews) February 7, 2019

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Thursday, 7 February 2019 23:11 (eight months ago) link

that was great

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 7 February 2019 23:26 (eight months ago) link

i have to admit i was mildly skeptical of her, because of a few minor missteps during and after her primary victory, and because i'm just constitutionally skeptical of "leaders" (especially ones that have people on social media gushing)-- but she's impressed me with her focus, seriousness, ability to communicate, and fearlessness.

affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Thursday, 7 February 2019 23:31 (eight months ago) link

she's pretty much untouchable now within the party. I'm sure the centrist wing is eventually going to pounce when they see the right opportunity though.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 7 February 2019 23:42 (eight months ago) link

how long will they still have jobs

Norm’s Superego (silby), Thursday, 7 February 2019 23:57 (eight months ago) link

and it's not like she's not part of a wing herself, among her fellow freshmen and otherwise

Norm’s Superego (silby), Thursday, 7 February 2019 23:58 (eight months ago) link

I'm glad she's here to catch GOP flak/calumnies that would otherwise be directed at our presidential candidates.

innocence adjacent (Sanpaku), Friday, 8 February 2019 01:18 (eight months ago) link

man alive otm way upthread. It’s almost spooky how skilled and self assured she is this early in her career. Like a Mozart or Tiger Woods of politics.

― Trϵϵship

ts: mozart vs. tiger woods

The Elvis of Nationalism and Amoral Patriotism (rushomancy), Friday, 8 February 2019 01:40 (eight months ago) link

today ended up being well timed for this thread, that video of her explaining the legality of corruption has been everywhere

bhad bundy (Simon H.), Friday, 8 February 2019 01:48 (eight months ago) link

lol "tiger woods of politics" is ominous for sure

affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Friday, 8 February 2019 02:05 (eight months ago) link

I found her annoying early on but have warmed to her since. I lived in her district and her campaign had some cringe moments when she wasn't as on top of a lot of details. she wasn't always great at twitter. when she beat crowley and she accused him of trying to mount a 3rd party campaign - that looked pretty bad, especially given how well he actually took his loss. at that point in time it wasn't clear she wouldn't end up being an embarrassment. but anyway, she's turned out to be a rare political talent who's smart, charismatic, great on camera etc. etc. and will presumably be an important part of the democratic party for decades.

flaws: the green new deal narrative that she's helping build is one where we can fight global warming without middle class americans making sacrifices.

iatee, Friday, 8 February 2019 02:20 (eight months ago) link

when she beat crowley and she accused him of trying to mount a 3rd party campaign - that looked pretty bad, especially given how well he actually took his loss.

i had this in mind when i mentioned her missteps. what was dispiriting about it was that initially she doubled down after many people tried to explain that his presence on the ballot was due to a quirk of NY's electoral system. above all it just seemed to relfect that she was *too online* -- she didn't take that required interval of reflection and research before just kind of hammering crowley about it, instead it was just the usual barrage of tweets. but that turned out to be kind of anomalous -- there haven't really been a lot of similar missteps since, in my view.

xpost

tbh "fighting global warming" in any sense would really mean a profound transformation in human civilization -- no more transcontinental flights, most people not permitted to drive cars, an acceptance that constant economic "growth" is no longer desirable -- that almost noone is prepared to accept. nor are there really any mechanics to effect it. so we're doomed imo.

affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Friday, 8 February 2019 02:30 (eight months ago) link

yeah I agree with both of those things

iatee, Friday, 8 February 2019 02:36 (eight months ago) link

lol "tiger woods of politics" is ominous for sure

― affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy)

mozart is worse, you know where mark hamill got his joker laugh right?!?

The Elvis of Nationalism and Amoral Patriotism (rushomancy), Friday, 8 February 2019 02:51 (eight months ago) link

i mentioned in another thread that she got numbers and things wrong and it was kind of embarrassing (what the branches of government were, some medicare numbers; I think there may have been something else). I think she does better when speaking in societal goals; hence, the new green deal, which seems to kind of leave the specifics out but makes sense as an aspiration. what am I saying? sorry i'm high.

akm, Friday, 8 February 2019 02:54 (eight months ago) link

also it seems fairly clear to me now that she's the heir to bobby kennedy and obama; I can't think of anyone else in the Democratic Party since who inspired as much devotion in their fanbase while so young.

akm, Friday, 8 February 2019 02:57 (eight months ago) link

dare i say the crazy right hates her as much as hilary, obama, and bernie sanders combined.

akm, Friday, 8 February 2019 02:59 (eight months ago) link

-- no more transcontinental flights, most people not permitted to drive cars, an acceptance that constant economic "growth" is no longer desirable -- that almost noone is prepared to accept.

Can we plz not parrot GOP talking pts in this thread k thx

legislative fanboy halfwit (Οὖτις), Friday, 8 February 2019 03:04 (eight months ago) link

The “welp nothing we can do cuz it would require destroying life as we know it” nihilism is their main argument against taking any kind of action. Stop encouraging this viewpoint.

legislative fanboy halfwit (Οὖτις), Friday, 8 February 2019 03:07 (eight months ago) link

Most people shouldn’t be permitted to drive cars

Norm’s Superego (silby), Friday, 8 February 2019 03:07 (eight months ago) link

"most" - who? "permitted" - by whom?

(ADVANCE) (320k vbr) (--V2) (aps) (diVX) (2CD) OST - SB (2019) (esby), Friday, 8 February 2019 03:33 (eight months ago) link

Anyone who’s able to ride the bus; the State.

Norm’s Superego (silby), Friday, 8 February 2019 03:36 (eight months ago) link

ok good times!

(ADVANCE) (320k vbr) (--V2) (aps) (diVX) (2CD) OST - SB (2019) (esby), Friday, 8 February 2019 03:37 (eight months ago) link

Stop encouraging this viewpoint.

i'm sorry, i didn't realize GOP operatives were trawling this thread for rhetorical ammunition. i'll be more circumspect in the future.

affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Friday, 8 February 2019 03:48 (eight months ago) link

this is for a different thread (for example, the climate change thread), but i think it's perfectly reasonable to hold the viewpoint that meaningful action on climate change would involve some changes that seem unthinkable to many people today (like confronting the idea that maybe we can't grow exponentially grow the economy ad infinitum). not everyone agrees. there are plenty of people that think that economic growth and environmental protection aren't inherently at odds with each other. i used to be of that opinion of myself, and it is certainly the prevailing viewpoint of most politicians who advocate for the environment. it makes a lot of political sense to hold that view, and regardless of the reality of climate change, it may be the most effective point of view to hold, in terms of trying to promote beneficial policies (which i think is where shakey is coming from). theoretically, it is possible to grow the economy in an environmentally friendly way, but i think we blew straight past that point. there's only so much time that one can say "if we make X and Y changes within the next 20 years, we'll be ok". i've been hearing that since i was a kid. i think we're past that time now, and now we're entering the territory of having to make fundamental changes that seem unthinkable to many people today.

it's true that holding the point of view that fundamental changes are required isn't exactly politically savvy, or at least that's been true in the past. but imo it's perfectly reasonable as a personal point of view, and especially on an internet thread.

Karl Malone, Friday, 8 February 2019 04:03 (eight months ago) link

Nothin but net

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 8 February 2019 04:34 (eight months ago) link

another 'trying to make her look bad but making her even cooler' moment

the things about her history in this tweet, while indeed not disqualifying her in any way, are lies

The Very Fugly Caterpillar (sic), Friday, 8 February 2019 06:19 (eight months ago) link

the video of her explaining political corruption posted slightly upthread is brilliant, all over the internet, and speaks to a very novel talent for social media communication that is well beyond her old-guard competition.

plax (ico), Friday, 8 February 2019 09:07 (eight months ago) link

the right don't seem to know what to do without a woman to froth at the mouth over; the refreshing thing about aoc is that she makes them look like the mouth-frothing lunatics they are

we'll see how she holds up to thirty fucking years of this shit

the scientology of mountains (rushomancy), Friday, 8 February 2019 09:07 (eight months ago) link

there is a very particular, and desirable talent that very few people have for saying very complicated things very simply without simplifying them. That video is almost like "ways of seeing" for ethics and oversight in contemporary governance. This talent for plainspokennes seems particularly crucial in the age of trump, where simple formulations are seen to be incredibly winning in capturing public imagination. MAGA, take back control. what distinguishes AOC is that her formulations aren't just meaningless iterations of primal nativist chest-beating.

plax (ico), Friday, 8 February 2019 09:13 (eight months ago) link

Mozart is in the bad place. ijs

human and working on getting beer (longneck), Friday, 8 February 2019 09:41 (eight months ago) link

tbh "fighting global warming" in any sense would really mean a profound transformation in human civilization -- no more transcontinental flights, most people not permitted to drive cars, an acceptance that constant economic "growth" is no longer desirable -- that almost noone is prepared to accept. nor are there really any mechanics to effect it. so we're doomed imo.

― affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Friday, 8 February 2019 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This politician is good but we're fucked anyway is a good attitude I guess.

xyzzzz__, Friday, 8 February 2019 12:28 (eight months ago) link

some of my antipathy towards Green parties stems from a feeling that we are fucked anyway, and some of their gestural politics might see them throw disableds under a bus to save knotty-faced sea squirrels or whatever.

calzino, Friday, 8 February 2019 12:37 (eight months ago) link

shall we see the (UK) Green party policy towards the disabled

imago, Friday, 8 February 2019 12:42 (eight months ago) link

https://policy.greenparty.org.uk/dy.html

have a read

imago, Friday, 8 February 2019 12:43 (eight months ago) link

I am just generalising about Green ideology and how I feel where it might end up, not saying it is a perfect pov. But lots of people are having as rough an existence as the planet is rn.

calzino, Friday, 8 February 2019 12:45 (eight months ago) link

one thing I do usually notice is that (and this doesn't always hold true) people who care about the planet also care about the well-being of the unprivileged, and vice versa

imago, Friday, 8 February 2019 12:47 (eight months ago) link

I wish someone would explain to some of these lovely people that many disabled ppl need single-use plastic straws, for starters.

calzino, Friday, 8 February 2019 12:55 (eight months ago) link

Green politics seems like the ultimate utopian "socialism in one country" thing where unless the whole planet is unequivocally committed to it, it's localised pressure groups - pissing into the wind. I mean even if the whole planet was committed to the cause, how many centuries could we delay The Great Dying 2.0 by?

calzino, Friday, 8 February 2019 13:09 (eight months ago) link

I am not so green that I don't use still disposable plastic straws on occasion although I've picked up a nifty pack of stainless steel ones for home use. I have gone through a TON in my life. More than most people I think, as there was a period when I used them as a jaunty affectation. What is your particular use for them, calzino?

peace, man, Friday, 8 February 2019 13:10 (eight months ago) link

I don't use them, I'm not disabled - just know ppl who are and say they can't use metal ones.

calzino, Friday, 8 February 2019 13:13 (eight months ago) link

I mean even if the whole planet was committed to the cause, how many centuries could we delay The Great Dying 2.0 by?

I really, really get this feeling, but it's essentially the path to giving up all together no? Ie lol we're all gonna die. I'd dread a world where the centrists or the godforaken libdems are the most 'left'/utopian politicians around, but it seems you've abandoned hope on the place of idealism in politics?

Uptown VONC (Le Bateau Ivre), Friday, 8 February 2019 13:14 (eight months ago) link

in theory i like the paper ones but in practice they turn to mush in about 30 seconds

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Friday, 8 February 2019 13:14 (eight months ago) link

"I don't use them, I'm not disabled - just know ppl who are and say they can't use metal ones."

why?

I had friends virtue signaling all over the damn facebook when banning these in SF was being discussed; they'd never once seemed to care about the disabled prior (I mean personally I'm sure they did but they really wanted to make a show of "what about the disableds!") but none of the arguments were very cogent. There are paper straws. You can use them. Sure they taste a bit gunky but many places have used them for years and you do get used to them.

akm, Friday, 8 February 2019 14:33 (eight months ago) link

shut the fuck up dickhead, I'm not even wasting my time on you.

calzino, Friday, 8 February 2019 14:38 (eight months ago) link

That escalated quickly

GDPR vs GAPDY (DJP), Friday, 8 February 2019 14:58 (eight months ago) link

sorry a bit rude, but when ppl display extreme ignorance + use "virtue signalling" an internal switch goes in me.

calzino, Friday, 8 February 2019 15:00 (eight months ago) link

just curious if you guys have read the GP FAQ bc it's extraordinarily ambitious - it's honestly v hard for me to imagine it being implemented let alone asking for something even more dramatic: https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/5729035/Green-New-Deal-FAQ.pdf

Mordy, Friday, 8 February 2019 15:12 (eight months ago) link

what are AOC's environmental stances, I assume they are good ones

imago, Friday, 8 February 2019 15:16 (eight months ago) link

My hope is that AOC inspires more working-class people to get into politics. If you can lay out your convictions plainly, (assuming they're inclined towards building an actual viable future for living people) and make clear your positions haven't already been bought and sold, no one will care about gaffes.

bhad bundy (Simon H.), Friday, 8 February 2019 15:18 (eight months ago) link

Anyone who’s able to ride the bus; the State.

― Norm’s Superego (silby), Friday, February 8, 2019 3:36 AM (eleven hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol ilu

There's more Italy than necessary. (in orbit), Friday, 8 February 2019 15:28 (eight months ago) link

apparently that FAQ might be fake - sorry if so!

Mordy, Friday, 8 February 2019 15:46 (eight months ago) link

quoting Alan Moore

gray say nah to me (wins), Friday, 8 February 2019 16:54 (eight months ago) link


in theory i like the paper ones but in practice they turn to mush in about 30 seconds
― illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Friday, February 8, 2019 1:14 PM (three hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

personally I just avoid beverages. simplifies things.

affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Friday, 8 February 2019 17:06 (eight months ago) link

sorry to bring this back to an AOC thread, but plastic straws are the most versatile and least problematic of straws for some disabled people to use for liquids including life giving sustenance and medication, not just beverages. I bet AOC would agree with me tbf.

calzino, Friday, 8 February 2019 17:11 (eight months ago) link

lol ilu

― There's more Italy than necessary. (in orbit), Friday, February 8, 2019 7:28 AM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

thanks!

Norm’s Superego (silby), Friday, 8 February 2019 17:13 (eight months ago) link

lmao conservatives really think the "Green New Deal" involves drinking piss

https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/51735329_568773206866772_6398036816041082880_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=ff4b28fc1bd7c05d0ebd0e0c11f4feb6&oe=5CEEFD5B

frogbs, Friday, 8 February 2019 17:27 (eight months ago) link

what are AOC's environmental stances, I assume they are good BAD ones

Hunt3r, Friday, 8 February 2019 17:30 (eight months ago) link

I thought conservatives liked drinking piss

GDPR vs GAPDY (DJP), Friday, 8 February 2019 17:40 (eight months ago) link

?_nc_cat=102&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=ff4b28fc1bd7c05d0ebd0e0c11f4feb6&oe=5CEEFD5B

The Very Fugly Caterpillar (sic), Friday, 8 February 2019 17:45 (eight months ago) link

Since 1992, Costner has financially supported a variety of Democratic politicians, including Al Gore and Tom Daschle, but also made contributions to Republican Phil Gramm as late as 1995. He said publicly in 2008 that he has no ambition to run for political office, adding "I've lived quite a colorful life".

Karl Malone, Friday, 8 February 2019 17:45 (eight months ago) link

lol:

look at these morons trying to gorilla channel @aoc's green new deal pic.twitter.com/vCjzQcM6mt

— cristina lópez g. (@crislopezg) February 8, 2019

xyzzzz__, Friday, 8 February 2019 18:17 (eight months ago) link

conservatives are so broke brained that they are literally believing it though

I thought conservatives liked drinking piss

I posted something like this as a response and all I got was "is that supposed to be a joke?"

frogbs, Friday, 8 February 2019 18:19 (eight months ago) link

J---- J--
I seriously hope this is fake. Because, yuck.

J---- J--
Nobody is peeing in my coffee.

N-- R---
well we know the President loves piss so we could possibly have a bipartisan deal here!

J---- J--
Is that supposed to be funny?

frogbs, Friday, 8 February 2019 18:26 (eight months ago) link

that is literally what we will all have to do if we keep destroying the planet, nice detective work republicans

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Friday, 8 February 2019 18:27 (eight months ago) link

not a joke. not even slightly. that is a deliberately and carefully fabricated lie, designed to look as convincing as possible by making it appear "in print" with an easily deciphered "code" that will attach it to AOC. the fact that it has no basis at all in reality is irrelevant. this lie will circulate and create its own reality. and harm. much as we'd love to laugh off this shit, it is very real shit and it will stick to the GND as it hits the word-of-mouth stage among it target audience. just like black helicopters and similarly far-fetched nonsense that have stuck.

A is for (Aimless), Friday, 8 February 2019 18:31 (eight months ago) link

enh I'm not at all convinced it'll stick

bhad bundy (Simon H.), Friday, 8 February 2019 18:31 (eight months ago) link

Pee-to-potable tech has been around for a long ass time and it’s a good idea that shd be in GND

YouTube_-_funy_cats.flv (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Friday, 8 February 2019 18:32 (eight months ago) link

otoh, peeing into a jug and letting it sit in the sun for six hours before using it brew tea is not a good idea and has no connection to GND

A is for (Aimless), Friday, 8 February 2019 18:34 (eight months ago) link

I'm not at all convinced it'll stick

contrails stuck. Vince Foster stuck. it doesn't have to go mainstream to gather belief among susceptible people and those believers will share it as widely as possible because it is designed to provoke that kind of "would you believe it? those GNDealers want us to piss in a jug and drink it!" rumor-mongering activity. it's too good not to spread once you've swallowed the bait.

there's an old saying that a rumor flies around in the world in the time it takes for truth to get out bed.

A is for (Aimless), Friday, 8 February 2019 18:45 (eight months ago) link

I don't care about conspiracy nuts and no one else should either, to the extent that they're influential it's very much on the outskirts of culture. birtherism was just as prominent, if not moreso, than any of those and it didn't prevent anything,

bhad bundy (Simon H.), Friday, 8 February 2019 18:48 (eight months ago) link

eh the thing about contrails or the Vince Foster thing (or Seth Rich, or Uranium One, etc etc) is that there's no way to prove it one way or the other, especially when it involves Things They Don't Want You To Know, this on the other hand is pretty easy to verify as false

frogbs, Friday, 8 February 2019 18:57 (eight months ago) link

I don't care about conspiracy nuts and no one else should either

It's basic FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt), and it's all part of the dirty tricks arsenal, by sowing confusion and misinformation. The very fact that you heard it from someone you know, even if you had doubts about it, means something in the low-information environment that tens of millions of rural and urban poor voters live in. The last election hinged on less than 100,000 strategically located votes.

A is for (Aimless), Friday, 8 February 2019 18:57 (eight months ago) link

piss on these people

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Friday, 8 February 2019 18:58 (eight months ago) link

you realize that they don't like to be pissed on? it only feeds their resentment of 'urban elites' and makes them gleefully embrace con-man shitheads like Trump in order to prompt your libtears?

A is for (Aimless), Friday, 8 February 2019 19:01 (eight months ago) link

Now Twitter is mad at her for saying that democratic socialism and capitalism can be compatible, I guess?

change display name (Jordan), Friday, 8 February 2019 19:02 (eight months ago) link

xp dang, that's a convincing argument, i suppose i will not actually piss on another human being after all

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Friday, 8 February 2019 19:02 (eight months ago) link

i suppose i will not actually piss on another human being after all

they can still sense your strong desire to piss on them, especially when you say "piss on those people". it's a what they call "a tell".

A is for (Aimless), Friday, 8 February 2019 19:04 (eight months ago) link

Now Twitter is mad at her for saying that democratic socialism and capitalism can be compatible, I guess?

"twitter" isn't, socialists on twitter are. they want to destroy capitalism. so of course they're not wild about this. but I think they're mad about the opinion, not taking this as some kind of betrayal on AOC's part. I don't think anyone considers her a dyed-in-the-wool socialist. she already sorta distanced herself from DSA

bhad bundy (Simon H.), Friday, 8 February 2019 19:06 (eight months ago) link

most of them are fine to let AOC do her thing and expand the horizon of the possible for budding leftists and dazzled liberals but they get a little nervous when she threatens to mainstream socialism into being basically just a capitalist welfare state

bhad bundy (Simon H.), Friday, 8 February 2019 19:09 (eight months ago) link

do they have a more plausible alternative route to socialism?

A is for (Aimless), Friday, 8 February 2019 19:11 (eight months ago) link

there's an old saying that a rumor flies around in the world in the time it takes for truth to get out bed.

A lie travelling, not a rumour, and commonly "before the truth has finished pulling on its boots," or similar. Derived from Swift, speaking closely to your point: "Falsehood flies, and the Truth comes limping after it; so that when Men come to be undeceiv’d, it is too late; the Jest is over, and the Tale has had its Effect…"

The Very Fugly Caterpillar (sic), Friday, 8 February 2019 19:15 (eight months ago) link

I would need to hear the full quote to see the context (literally working on recollections of spotting it this morning), but it sounds like she's redefining socialism, not arguing for a path to instituting it (under any definition I'd recognize, anyway) xp

bhad bundy (Simon H.), Friday, 8 February 2019 19:19 (eight months ago) link

ppl get defensive about these things because they're used to having their views misrepresented from the right as opposed to a theoretically sympathetic liberal left. but tbh I don't care much about this either way because I don't think anyone should be relying on AOC for their abstract political theory.

bhad bundy (Simon H.), Friday, 8 February 2019 19:23 (eight months ago) link

True or False: Kermit-drinking-tea meme is actually Kermit-drinking-piss

akm, Friday, 8 February 2019 19:32 (eight months ago) link

how deep does this go????

bhad bundy (Simon H.), Friday, 8 February 2019 19:33 (eight months ago) link

The fact that the creator of the fake green new deal piss thing made it specific to "males" is a big tell imo

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Friday, 8 February 2019 19:35 (eight months ago) link

I guess mandatory soy would have been too obvious

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Friday, 8 February 2019 19:36 (eight months ago) link

just like black helicopters and similarly far-fetched nonsense that have stuck.

remember the "death panels" mandated by the ACA?

affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Friday, 8 February 2019 19:36 (eight months ago) link

definitely, they executed my grandma last year after a televised trial, it was awful

i don't worry too much about people believing really dumb fake shit about GND because if those people weren't spending their time believing that dumb fake shit they'd be spending it believing some other dumb fake shit

Karl Malone, Friday, 8 February 2019 19:38 (eight months ago) link

[obligatory these people have more time than you think quip post]

Evan, Friday, 8 February 2019 19:41 (eight months ago) link

karl otm

k3vin k., Friday, 8 February 2019 19:43 (eight months ago) link

they can still sense your strong desire to piss on them, especially when you say "piss on those people". it's a what they call "a tell".

you've convinced on me; i will piss on them after all.

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Friday, 8 February 2019 19:49 (eight months ago) link

if those people weren't spending their time believing that dumb fake shit they'd be spending it believing some other dumb fake shit

the pity is, all the dumb fake shit they're fed is weighted toward keeping the power and money flowing toward the worst sort of people, but if the 'good people' were to propagate a counter-offensive of dumb fake shit that favored the 'right policies', it would quickly extinguish the very principles that made the 'good people' good people to begin with. you'd end up with The Protocols of the Elders of Wall Street, or some such garbage.

A is for (Aimless), Friday, 8 February 2019 19:52 (eight months ago) link

Has anyone pointed out how shitty this thread title is for the AOC conversation hub?

brotherlovesdub, Friday, 8 February 2019 20:11 (eight months ago) link

No, but it IS annoying having to keep opening three political threads!

Your sweetie-pie-coo-coo I love ya (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 8 February 2019 20:12 (eight months ago) link

we should have one for everyone

What are Matt Whitaker's Flaws?

omar little, Friday, 8 February 2019 20:12 (eight months ago) link

have you seen his hair?

Your sweetie-pie-coo-coo I love ya (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 8 February 2019 20:15 (eight months ago) link

no

j., Friday, 8 February 2019 20:35 (eight months ago) link

re: climate change. I think we're doomed to a future world with deeply curtailed human carrying capacity, which means a lot of suffering over the next couple centuries till a new equilibrium of remaining resources and population is achieved. Science communicators have systematically underplayed how grave the consequences, and how difficult total decarbonization will be. More importantly, even later this century as social collapse expands from the most insecure developing nations to their neighbors and right to the borders of the "rich" world, there won't be political will to live smaller, within the planet's limits. As a species, we're just not wired to think of indirect consequences that span millenia into the future. Hell, many go right back to eating cheeseburgers after coronary bypasses.

However, its just awful living with constant reminders of how hopeless the situation may in fact be. I personally aim to live small (vegan, public transport, small apt, sweaters over heating, etc), certainly well below my means, but I'm so tired of the despair, which infects everything. Better that we have politicians that at least make the right noises that they're aware of the situation and offer some sense of hope, than the willfully ignorant making arguments from personal incredulity. So, while I've got reservations that any politically palatable Green New Deal will deter people from using fossil fuels enough to make a marked difference in the world's fate, I'm 100% behind AOC and her GND just so we can have the illusion of hope.

innocence adjacent (Sanpaku), Friday, 8 February 2019 20:35 (eight months ago) link

xps i'm holding out for "do you think alexandria ocasio-cortez is a sociopath?"

difficult listening hour, Friday, 8 February 2019 20:35 (eight months ago) link

lol!

calzino, Friday, 8 February 2019 20:36 (eight months ago) link

While rightly insisting on the primacy of climate change, it betrays its own confidence by submerging climate policy into a broader array of priorities. It simultaneously argues that we must move with urgent speed on climate, but that we must first achieve comprehensive socialism in order to move.

life's a bitch

difficult listening hour, Friday, 8 February 2019 20:45 (eight months ago) link

thread title is a ref to the old "what are barack obama's flaws" thread i assume

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, 8 February 2019 20:47 (eight months ago) link

right

k3vin k., Friday, 8 February 2019 20:56 (eight months ago) link

ILX can be hard to follow if you’re just tuning in; you gotta read some recaps of the backstory at least

Norm’s Superego (silby), Friday, 8 February 2019 21:15 (eight months ago) link

Shoulda called it "Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: New, Green, and Deal!"

a large tuna called “Justice” (C. Grisso/McCain), Friday, 8 February 2019 21:25 (eight months ago) link

Wait, there’s a thread called What Are Barack Obama’s Flaws? I just thought it would be appropriate to highlight her shortcomings. Weird!

Alfred, actually it’s even worse, there are 4 politics threads to click back and forth between. It’s living hell!!!!!

Karl Malone, Friday, 8 February 2019 21:33 (eight months ago) link

lol xp

YouTube_-_funy_cats.flv (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Friday, 8 February 2019 21:38 (eight months ago) link

Climate scientists I've talked to, even the most hopeless about prospects for preventing catastrophic warming, tell me there's one thing that changes our orientation to the crisis. There's one thing that changes our sense of our shared capacity to fight for something better than falling victim to forces far beyond our control. It's not changing how we talk about it, or reading more or reading less about what's happening. It's taking action. It's easy to see No Future. It's harder to see something better -- and the only way we ever will is if we start building it today.

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 8 February 2019 21:42 (eight months ago) link

hoos for president

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 8 February 2019 22:09 (eight months ago) link

hoos sounding like he's on the stump!

definitely, they executed my grandma last year after a televised trial, it was awful

wow, your grandma got a trial?

affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Friday, 8 February 2019 22:15 (eight months ago) link

I would be happy to have 4 AOC threads.

Yerac, Friday, 8 February 2019 22:19 (eight months ago) link

okay I waited six hours, this is some of the worst coffee I've ever had several cups of

Rhine Jive Click Bait (Hadrian VIII), Friday, 8 February 2019 22:28 (eight months ago) link

- Bob Marley

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, 9 February 2019 00:01 (eight months ago) link

Man that's good

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Saturday, 9 February 2019 04:09 (eight months ago) link

- Bob Marley

― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, February 9, 2019 12:01 AM (four hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

marilyn monroe iirc

affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Saturday, 9 February 2019 04:11 (eight months ago) link

It’s pretty wild that the GOP can’t decide whether they’re going to run with the conspiracy theory that I’m secretly rich, or the exaggeration & mockery of my family’s struggle after my dad died during the financial crisis.

Instead, they decide to defy logic and run with both.

— Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (@AOC) February 9, 2019

grawlix (unperson), Saturday, 9 February 2019 15:00 (eight months ago) link

And her subjects gathered 'round her/Like the leaves around a tree.

clemenza, Saturday, 9 February 2019 15:31 (eight months ago) link

GND rollout hasn’t exactly been the greatest the thing

Nerdstrom Poindexter, Saturday, 9 February 2019 22:11 (eight months ago) link

ya. i hope she ditches Kelton soon

flopson, Saturday, 9 February 2019 22:45 (eight months ago) link

trump has weighed in on the GND, and he has no idea what a carbon footprint is

I think it is very important for the Democrats to press forward with their Green New Deal. It would be great for the so-called “Carbon Footprint” to permanently eliminate all Planes, Cars, Cows, Oil, Gas & the Military - even if no other country would do the same. Brilliant!

Karl Malone, Saturday, 9 February 2019 23:24 (eight months ago) link

Doesn't sound so bad to me. Always found cows kinda smug tbh

bhad bundy (Simon H.), Saturday, 9 February 2019 23:28 (eight months ago) link

this so-called "widely used unit of measurement"

Karl Malone, Saturday, 9 February 2019 23:31 (eight months ago) link

Climate change produced extreme weather in Australia has been eliminating cows by the hundreds of thousands this summer.

American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Saturday, 9 February 2019 23:40 (eight months ago) link

ya. i hope she ditches Kelton soon

why flopson

j., Saturday, 9 February 2019 23:53 (eight months ago) link

This interview was interesting. Chuck Todd couldn't totally turn off his essential Chuck Todd-ness, but it's worth watching.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wypN0PChAtg

grawlix (unperson), Sunday, 10 February 2019 00:13 (eight months ago) link

xp- j.

you don't pay for socialism by printing money. Scandinavia don't print money, they pay for popular social programs with high (by US standards) progressive but broad-based taxes. there is no other way to do it. it's true that deficit hysteria is overblown, but you don't need MMT to know that. and you can't pay for a permanent expansion in spending/transfers by printing money without costs. using taxes, we can make those costs transparent and choose them democratically. using MMT, the costs are opaque, depend on inflation, and ultimately punted into the future

MMT is a scam with significant parallels to cryptocurrency: shrouded in confusing jargon and terminology (accounting minutiae of fed balance sheets), funded by shady finance billionaires (Warren Mosler Jerome Levy, others), a large online community of die-hard believers who recite its arguments like the fn catechism in the mentions of anyone who tweets about it. seriously, it sucks so bad and i really hope the new gen of progressive politicians don't buy it. it's snake oil twitternomics. there's promising signs that AOC is reconsidering after the backlash to the GND FAQ they posted (and almost immediately took down, and are now claiming doesn't even exist) that cited MMT heavily. to the extent that AOC represents the dems' 'tea party' and exists to shift the overton window the center left, maybe citing crazypants MMT is a good thing. but i don't think MMT deserves to get play at the national level, from the left, and i think AOC's long-term ambitions are more than to be just a strategic counterweight

quotes below are from an MMT profile in the Atlantic a couple years ago. both Mosler and Levy are billionaire financiers

MMT didn’t get much traction outside of academia at first. In fact, it was (and remains) on the fringes of the economics profession itself. “We all had offices in the same alley at the Levy Institute,” Kelton recalls.

Then along came Warren Mosler, a wealthy financier who, as a result of his banking work, had come to some unorthodox and complementary ideas about money. Eager to share his views, Mosler finagled a meeting with Donald Rumsfeld in the steam room of the Chicago Racquet Club. Rumsfeld led him to Arthur Laffer, the right-wing economist who came up with the “Laffer curve” theory promoting low taxes, and Laffer, in turn, connected Mosler with his future collaborator, the economist Mark McNary. In an independently published paper titled “Soft-Currency Economics,” Mosler, drawing on McNary’s research, argued that taxes are what create a demand for federal spending and that deficits don’t cause countries to default on their debt.

Kelton is an intellectually disingenuous hack who went to bat for Trump tax cuts on MMT grounds that the deficit increases didn't matter. it's a total coincidence that she is associated with the left, which she herself has admitted in the past. from the same profile:

Kelton sees the fundamentals of her work as “a descriptive analysis that could be exploited by either side: Democrats and Republicans can use the insight to push tax cuts or increase spending.” Indeed, the idea of a big-spending economic stimulus to fix the country’s infrastructure served as a common ground for Trump and Sanders voters who liked the idea of jobs perhaps more than they disliked the idea of national indebtedness. If that’s what voters want, then MMT is a rare bird: an economic theory that not only validates their hunches, but contends that they’re the key to a healthy, stable, prosperous economy for all.

there are very good reasons we don't use functional finance rules (which were first proposed by Abba Lerner in the 50s, if not earlier) where treasury and central bank are consolidated and fiscal policy is used to control inflation. it's very hard for a government to credibly commit to controlling inflation, which is why every country has an independent CB that controls money supply/interest rates.

if you try to follow MMT logic all the way through you'll notice there's a huge bait and switch involved. we can print money to fund spending, and deficits don't matter because we can pay it off by printing money. the only thing that matter is if inflation erodes the value of the money we are using to pay off the deficit. but then we'll just use fiscal policy (cut spending, raise taxes) to bring down inflation. so all they did is punt the taxes and spending down the road, to something we'll deal with when inflation hits. they don't like saying this, that all gets you is to shift the budget constraint out to the inflation frontier, because (i) it's not original, everyone has known this for at least 50 years, and (ii) they prefer to present MMT as a magical new world with no constraints. to the left this means you can have a green new deal, basic income, job guarantee without raising taxes, to the right it means Republicans can pass an insanely regressive tax cut and that's perfectly fine because the deficit doesn't matter

flopson, Sunday, 10 February 2019 01:19 (eight months ago) link

if it’s wrong to believe the deficit doesn’t matter I don’t want to be right.

Norm’s Superego (silby), Sunday, 10 February 2019 01:44 (eight months ago) link

oh well that is disappointing. she's certainly talking herself up well then

j., Sunday, 10 February 2019 01:49 (eight months ago) link

i think i must have seen that marshall steinbaum fellow, who seemed legit, say something approving of her and hence

j., Sunday, 10 February 2019 01:51 (eight months ago) link

if it’s wrong to believe the deficit doesn’t matter I don’t want to be right.

― Norm’s Superego (silby), Saturday, February 9, 2019 8:44 PM (ten minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

saying 'the deficit doesn't matter' in the sense of, we don't need to freak out and pay it off is one thing. saying you can pay for anything forever and revenue doesn't matter is a different thing

i think i must have seen that marshall steinbaum fellow, who seemed legit, say something approving of her and hence

― j., Saturday, February 9, 2019 8:51 PM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

marshall is semi-legit and strategically neutral on MMT. he and kelton have work together about student debt that crisis that doesn't really rely on MMT

flopson, Sunday, 10 February 2019 01:59 (eight months ago) link

Her speaking voice sucks and she's going to have vocal problems pretty soon if she doesn't change it. I genuinely think a lot of "SHE'S DUMB!!!!" stuff coming from the right is an unconscious reaction to her voice. I think she's pretty all right generally, but the voice messes me up because 1. I'm old and 2. moms was an opera singer.

Three Word Username, Sunday, 10 February 2019 09:12 (eight months ago) link

i like her voice

flopson, Sunday, 10 February 2019 09:15 (eight months ago) link

You're welcome to.

Three Word Username, Sunday, 10 February 2019 09:20 (eight months ago) link

I mean, vernacular changes because folks like the new way of speaking. Dinosaurs don't like change, folks into voice production don't like undersupport and speaking head voice.

Three Word Username, Sunday, 10 February 2019 09:22 (eight months ago) link

Her speaking voice sucks and she's going to have vocal problems pretty soon if she doesn't change it.

this is one of the weirdest things i've read here.

affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Sunday, 10 February 2019 13:57 (eight months ago) link

vocal coach DESTROYS AOC with head voice critique

21st savagery fox (m bison), Sunday, 10 February 2019 14:08 (eight months ago) link

loll

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Sunday, 10 February 2019 14:17 (eight months ago) link

lmao this is a new one

bhad bundy (Simon H.), Sunday, 10 February 2019 14:21 (eight months ago) link

Most women's speaking voices "traditionally" sucks trope.

Yerac, Sunday, 10 February 2019 14:22 (eight months ago) link

I still love that Elizabeth Holmes affecting a deeper voice story.

Yerac, Sunday, 10 February 2019 14:24 (eight months ago) link

Thanks for the MMT post, flopson. Very interesting.

jmm, Sunday, 10 February 2019 14:31 (eight months ago) link

"what i choose is my voice" - aoc

⅋ (crüt), Sunday, 10 February 2019 14:33 (eight months ago) link

what about the voice of aoc

how did it get so high

j., Sunday, 10 February 2019 15:06 (eight months ago) link

i know those things end up mattering more than they should but I hadn't noticed anything bad about her voice(!) - thought pacing and delivery was very good in that corruption hearing thing

Have seen some weird "bernie and aoc are the same / bernie and aoc are NOT the same" stuff on twitter, which again seems to come down to this "democratic socialism is compatible with capitalism" / 'democratic socialism is not compatible with capitalism" stuff which is a bit niche interest to me. cba too much with too much labelling and naming just get the ball in the net and score a goal and thats what she is doing

anvil, Sunday, 10 February 2019 15:09 (eight months ago) link

I don't mind AOC's voice, but I agree with three word username that such cosmetic things matter. You may not want them to, and some people get upset if you even broach the subject, but they do, a lot. Women undoubtedly get singled out disproportionately for such complaints (and they're harsher, and more symbolically loaded for a woman), but I could definitely name many men where I couldn't get past the voice. I think of Jon Huntsman immediately--I cringed every time he spoke. Ted Cruz, independent of whatever nonsense he's spouting. Martin O'Malley. Closer to home, Doug Ford.

clemenza, Sunday, 10 February 2019 15:19 (eight months ago) link

Bella Abzug and Shirley Chisholm had...unconventional... New York voices, didn't seem to hurt them much.

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 10 February 2019 15:36 (eight months ago) link

lads

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Sunday, 10 February 2019 15:43 (eight months ago) link

I mean how has Booker not been mentioned

Your sweetie-pie-coo-coo I love ya (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 10 February 2019 15:45 (eight months ago) link

poll

L'assie (Euler), Sunday, 10 February 2019 15:46 (eight months ago) link

Ted Cruz and Doug Ford, noted losers of elections

bhad bundy (Simon H.), Sunday, 10 February 2019 15:48 (eight months ago) link

Perhaps millions of Trump voters have still never heard him speak.

nashwan, Sunday, 10 February 2019 15:59 (eight months ago) link

Bella Abzug and Shirley Chisholm had...unconventional... New York voices, didn't seem to hurt them much.

Ted Cruz and Doug Ford, noted losers of elections

It doesn't work that way--it's totally subjective, totally irrational. Obviously, lots of people don't mind their voices at all. I'm sure Jon Huntsman sounds like Winston Churchill to some people, just like I'm sure Winston Churchill sounds like Sarah Palin to others. I'm not predicting results here--the point is, if enough people didn't like AOC's voice, that would be a problem for her.

clemenza, Sunday, 10 February 2019 16:06 (eight months ago) link

I think the fact that it took like 10k posts about AOC before anyone brought up her voice points to it not being a problem

bhad bundy (Simon H.), Sunday, 10 February 2019 16:07 (eight months ago) link

what the hell is happening itt

Calgary customer Elvis Cavalic (bizarro gazzara), Sunday, 10 February 2019 16:08 (eight months ago) link

It took a weird detour, an ILX first.

Trump voters evidently love Trump's voice. Don't ask me why.

Based on this thread, agree--only one objection raised. How representative the people posting on this thread are of the larger populace, I don't know. Anyway, again, I'm agreeing with the underlying point in TWU's post, that's all.

clemenza, Sunday, 10 February 2019 16:12 (eight months ago) link

it not only hasn't been mentioned until now on ILX, I've never once seen it mentioned on Twitter, Reddit (left, lib or right-wing), or in the press. this is Not A Thing.

bhad bundy (Simon H.), Sunday, 10 February 2019 16:15 (eight months ago) link

You don't want it to be, anyway. I assume you want to believe that the Person With the Best Ideas automatically wins elections. If that makes you happy, carry on.

clemenza, Sunday, 10 February 2019 16:17 (eight months ago) link

(If you're limiting your objection to AOC only, then sure, maybe you're right.)

clemenza, Sunday, 10 February 2019 16:18 (eight months ago) link

jesus fuck

bhad bundy (Simon H.), Sunday, 10 February 2019 16:19 (eight months ago) link

Now jesus fuck, he had a nice voice.

clemenza, Sunday, 10 February 2019 16:20 (eight months ago) link

the idea that right-wingers are "unconsciously objecting" to a young woman of color who supports left-wing policy because she has a "head voice" is fucking stupid sorry

bhad bundy (Simon H.), Sunday, 10 February 2019 16:30 (eight months ago) link

Is Three Word Username a right-winger? Because I was specifically making my point within the context of his dislike of AOC's voice.

clemenza, Sunday, 10 February 2019 16:31 (eight months ago) link

her only flaws are: american + her voice

||||||||, Sunday, 10 February 2019 16:31 (eight months ago) link

can you fucking read

I genuinely think a lot of "SHE'S DUMB!!!!" stuff coming from the right is an unconscious reaction to her voice.

bhad bundy (Simon H.), Sunday, 10 February 2019 16:32 (eight months ago) link

idk these same people thought Obama was dumb despite the fact that he had pretty much the best voice of any President but it occurs to me there may be another reason for that

frogbs, Sunday, 10 February 2019 16:34 (eight months ago) link

is the flaw that she's american the flaw that she's not british? it is a cliche but we could do with a few like her

imago, Sunday, 10 February 2019 16:34 (eight months ago) link

No, I can't read Simon. Please move the conversation there.

My initial post came right after TWU's post. Everything I've said was in reference to that. I'm hardly saying that AOC's voice is going to be an obstacle she may have to overcome with Trump voters (and if she can just get past that, they'll embrace her).

clemenza, Sunday, 10 February 2019 16:34 (eight months ago) link

ive seen people call her voice 'nerdy' before but haven't seen anyone suggest it's an impediment to anything

ciderpress, Sunday, 10 February 2019 16:38 (eight months ago) link

A voice is a voice

fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Sunday, 10 February 2019 16:39 (eight months ago) link

She just sounds like a young woman to me

frogbs, Sunday, 10 February 2019 16:40 (eight months ago) link

A Fox News intern exposes AOC's flaws:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DgvfMreXcAAIvkn.jpg

tabloid/petromonarchy alliance (Sanpaku), Sunday, 10 February 2019 16:40 (eight months ago) link

I see now that TWU's post had that line about the right--I was focused on his objection to her voice. So, point taken, I should have read that post closer.

To clarify: I think something like AOC's (or anybody's) voice could matter in getting his or her party's nomination. It's just there, one of the many cosmetic factors that matter, even if you don't think they should. If enough people instinctively resist, you have a problem. But no, in AOC's case, the right's hatred of her is a whole other matter.

clemenza, Sunday, 10 February 2019 16:42 (eight months ago) link

She just sounds like a young woman to me

― frogbs, Sunday, February 10, 2019 11:40 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Billy Joel's finest hour

fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Sunday, 10 February 2019 16:43 (eight months ago) link

clemenza take your concern trolling over to some Canadian politics thread where you might have a clue what you're talking about

sleeve, Sunday, 10 February 2019 16:56 (eight months ago) link

I thought I had killfiled you, going to fix that right now

sleeve, Sunday, 10 February 2019 16:57 (eight months ago) link

Shouldn't you be out patrolling the neighborhood for pretend punks? Please, whatever that means, please do so.

clemenza, Sunday, 10 February 2019 17:00 (eight months ago) link

Her voice is good. She sounds like a young person from the new york metropolitan area.

Trϵϵship, Sunday, 10 February 2019 17:07 (eight months ago) link

hmmm sorry you did not include a spectrographic analysis, try again

bhad bundy (Simon H.), Sunday, 10 February 2019 17:08 (eight months ago) link

folks into voice production don't like undersupport and speaking head voice.

this is 2019's blended haircut moment imo

imago, Sunday, 10 February 2019 17:12 (eight months ago) link

symmetry demanded it

brownie, Sunday, 10 February 2019 17:13 (eight months ago) link

lol

gray say nah to me (wins), Sunday, 10 February 2019 17:13 (eight months ago) link

The idea of people who are not literally communications strategists for the demcoratic party expending any thought ok something like a politician’s voice makes me want to die. Other people, i’m sure, feel similarly, making this a dangerous line of discussion.

Trϵϵship, Sunday, 10 February 2019 17:14 (eight months ago) link

we could do with a few like her
― imago, Sunday, 10 February 2019 16:34 (forty-three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

are u at it

||||||||, Sunday, 10 February 2019 17:18 (eight months ago) link

? i literally do think that

imago, Sunday, 10 February 2019 17:19 (eight months ago) link

Jess Phillips not good enough for you?

Wee boats wobble but they don't fall down (Tom D.), Sunday, 10 February 2019 17:23 (eight months ago) link

imagine if Jess Phillips, AOC and Wes Streeting could be blended together but with Hitler's oratory skillz.

calzino, Sunday, 10 February 2019 17:50 (eight months ago) link

Bill Clinton's voice also sucks. I am not a right winger, nor do I think her voice is the sole reason racist scumbags might think she's dumb. It is not her accent I object to -- she talks at the tipity-top of her natural voice in a way that makes me nuts. I could list 47 Hollywood actor dudes who I think talk way too high for my taste. Her voice just drives me nuts, so I prefer read what she says, and it's better for everyone.

Three Word Username, Sunday, 10 February 2019 18:21 (eight months ago) link

Feel like the convo went from

"Btw she could work on her voice, all that speaking, she might damage it without working on it"

to

"Her smoky, non-diaphragmatic alto will make her lose Independent votes and swing the White House to Kodos"

in minutes.

I'd say "telephone game" but it's written down yo.

fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Sunday, 10 February 2019 18:23 (eight months ago) link

I appreciate your comprehending defense, N.

Three Word Username, Sunday, 10 February 2019 18:25 (eight months ago) link

Her smoky, non-diaphragmatic alto

gonna borrow this for the next time I write about Meghan Trainor.

Your sweetie-pie-coo-coo I love ya (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 10 February 2019 18:26 (eight months ago) link

Jess Phillips not good enough for you?

― Wee boats wobble but they don't fall down (Tom D.), Sunday, February 10, 2019 5:23 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

seriously what is this meme that I like Jess Phillips, she is obviously awful

imago, Sunday, 10 February 2019 18:27 (eight months ago) link

what is the most politically appropriate voice?

ogmor, Sunday, 10 February 2019 18:29 (eight months ago) link

I think the thing I appreciate most about AOC right NOW, besides the obvious giving the party a needes kick to the left, is that her troll game is strong enough to make her opponents show their asses in fhe exact way she wants them to. I don't mean internet trolls, who were doing that since BBSes existed...but sitting politicians.

She just needles them in a way that makes them finally unable to toe the line of acceptability and make whatever sexist, racist, ageist insult possible.

Granted, anybody with a brain saw all that shit from the jump, but we need indie votes in 2020, and any time she can force an old white Pub Senator or Rep into a public, electronic unforced error that plays into the party's worst stereotype, I'm all for it.

fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Sunday, 10 February 2019 18:34 (eight months ago) link

Bill Clinton's voice also sucks.

lmao

flopson, Sunday, 10 February 2019 20:51 (eight months ago) link

Trump's voice is good, too

flopson, Sunday, 10 February 2019 20:52 (eight months ago) link

A suggestion on the 'AOC's voice' angle: read classicist Mary Beard's *Women & Power*. In one section she talks about going on TV & receiving oceans of violent Twitter threats in reply, which led her to tweet that "the misogyny is truly gobsmacking."

This was reported by one commentator in a mainstream British magazine in these terms: "'the misogyny is truly gobsmacking,' she whined."

Do these words matter? Of course they do, because they underpin an idiom that acts to remove the authority, the force, even the humor from what women have to say. It is an idiom that effectively repositions women back into the domestic sphere (people whine about things like the dishes); it trivializes their words, or it 're-privatizes' them. Contrast the 'deep-voiced' man with all the connotations of profundity the simple word 'deep' brings. It is still the case that when listeners hear a female voice, they do not hear a voice that connotes authority; or rather they have learned not to hear authority in it.

We find repeated stress throughout the ancient literature on the authority of the deep male voice in contrast to the female. Classical writers insisted that the tone and timbre of women's speech always threatened to subvert not just the voice of the male orator but also the social and political stability, the health, of the whole state.

There is another cultural connection revealed by the treatment of women who speak with authority: unpopular, controversial, or just plain different views are taken as indications of her stupidity. It is not that you disagree, it is that she is stupid: 'sorry, love, you just don't understand.' I've lost count of the number of times I've been called 'an ignorant moron.'

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Sunday, 10 February 2019 20:56 (eight months ago) link

If y'all wanna pretend a Trump fan who hates women's voices posted, go nuts. And leave me out.

Three Word Username, Sunday, 10 February 2019 21:09 (eight months ago) link

Three Word Username: What's yr opinion of the Greta Van Fleet dude's voice?

a large tuna called “Justice” (C. Grisso/McCain), Sunday, 10 February 2019 21:21 (eight months ago) link

Is this whole tangent because of the thread title?

jmm, Sunday, 10 February 2019 21:22 (eight months ago) link

Bud I'm not calling you a Trump loving woman hater. Read the words again. The point being made is that discounting women for their voices is real and has deep roots in how we think and talk about rhetoric whether a Google News search suggests it's "a thing" or not. I'm trying to buttress your point that dislike that presents as rooted in the voice is a real phenomenon.

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Sunday, 10 February 2019 21:27 (eight months ago) link

xp it's not a tangent, because of the thread title

ciderpress, Sunday, 10 February 2019 21:28 (eight months ago) link

But maybe that wasn't your point at all and I misunderstood you, fuck this stupid website xp

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Sunday, 10 February 2019 21:28 (eight months ago) link

no way this website is cool

j., Sunday, 10 February 2019 21:34 (eight months ago) link

Bud I'm not calling you a Trump loving woman hater. Read the words again. The point being made is that discounting women for their voices is real and has deep roots in how we think and talk about rhetoric whether a Google News search suggests it's "a thing" or not. I'm trying to buttress your point that dislike that presents as rooted in the voice is a real phenomenon.

Neanderthal, a theatre performer, tracked where the reaction to TWU's post hurtled through the guardrail just fine, we could probably drop the whole thing now

The Very Fugly Caterpillar (sic), Sunday, 10 February 2019 21:34 (eight months ago) link

although after

Her voice is good. She sounds like a young person from the new york metropolitan area.

― Trϵϵship, Monday, February 11, 2019 4:07 AM

The idea of people who are not literally communications strategists for the demcoratic party expending any thought (on) something like a politician’s voice makes me want to die.

― Trϵϵship, Monday, February 11, 2019 4:14 AM

The Very Fugly Caterpillar (sic), Sunday, 10 February 2019 21:36 (eight months ago) link

I actually have had the thought before that someone will complain about her voice because it's not deep enough and I know how that plagues women to be taken seriously. It sucks.

Yerac, Sunday, 10 February 2019 21:39 (eight months ago) link

x-post: Ah, no, you do understand my point, Hoos, sorry. Others gave been less generous and I get grumpy in response, shame on me. What I am saying is that I am having a strong visceral negative reaction to her voice (and really, it's her vocal production technique, not her unchangeable voice), but I'm conscious of it and don't dismiss her because of it. Other folks hear the same thing with a different set of prejudices and hear what they want to hear, which is "stupid and young and whiney". It's up to her what she wants to do with her voice entirely; I do think there could be some danger of vocal problems later, and that to me is a real reason to change your style of speaking when you enter a rhetoric job; appeasing misogynists is not a good reason to change.

Three Word Username, Sunday, 10 February 2019 21:40 (eight months ago) link

xp sic, i don't understand why those were quoted. i was saying that 1.) i think her voice is fine, and 2.) regardless, the whole concern-trolling obsession with "optics"--i.e., "it's no problem to me, personally, but i just wonder how xyz will come across to voters in Michconsin"—makes me want to die.

Trϵϵship, Sunday, 10 February 2019 21:52 (eight months ago) link

it's so naturalized to "think like a strategist" now

Trϵϵship, Sunday, 10 February 2019 21:53 (eight months ago) link

it’s lightly amusing that you expressed an opinion about her voice, and then seven minutes later said that the very concept of (other) people even having an unexpressed opinion about her voice made you want to die

The Very Fugly Caterpillar (sic), Sunday, 10 February 2019 22:40 (eight months ago) link

seven minutes is a long time. everyone says seven minute songs are long.

Trϵϵship, Sunday, 10 February 2019 22:44 (eight months ago) link

this is a bad thread

21st savagery fox (m bison), Sunday, 10 February 2019 22:45 (eight months ago) link

fwiw,the thread title is a reference to

what are barack obama's flaws?

i meant it as a compliment (barack obama had a relatively successful political career), not as a serious conversation starter. not everyone's going to understand the callback, but i figured the vast majority of ilxors would since we don't exactly get much new blood around these parts.

Karl Malone, Sunday, 10 February 2019 22:46 (eight months ago) link

km, i know the reference i just think its funny how this is becoming every ilx politics thread.

21st savagery fox (m bison), Sunday, 10 February 2019 22:46 (eight months ago) link

i think i need sitewide mod privs so i can yellow card people into submission

21st savagery fox (m bison), Sunday, 10 February 2019 22:47 (eight months ago) link

what are m bison's flaws?

he doesnt have sitewide mod privs

21st savagery fox (m bison), Sunday, 10 February 2019 22:47 (eight months ago) link

i support that!

i was actually xposting to a few people upthread who hated the title

Karl Malone, Sunday, 10 February 2019 22:48 (eight months ago) link

support the idea of you yellowcarding everyone i mean! xpost city

Karl Malone, Sunday, 10 February 2019 22:48 (eight months ago) link

look at that, mailman delivering on sundays

21st savagery fox (m bison), Sunday, 10 February 2019 22:50 (eight months ago) link

anyway back to the topic...

one of AOC's flaws is that she cant grant me sitewide mod privs to own people on the politics thread in private via yellow carding

21st savagery fox (m bison), Sunday, 10 February 2019 22:51 (eight months ago) link

can we make aoc an honorary mod

Trϵϵship, Sunday, 10 February 2019 22:52 (eight months ago) link

xp Maybe she can. Send her a letter.

jmm, Sunday, 10 February 2019 22:53 (eight months ago) link

only if she supports the mean new deal (where i am mean to people on the Web funded by deficits)

21st savagery fox (m bison), Sunday, 10 February 2019 22:54 (eight months ago) link

the campaign season starts earlier and earlier

you know who deserves sitewide mod privileges? (m bison), Sunday, 10 February 2019 22:55 (eight months ago) link

Meet your new mod (not a dictator)!

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e4/Bison_%28Super_Street_Fighter_II%29.png

jmm, Sunday, 10 February 2019 22:59 (eight months ago) link

honorary mods don't get banning privileges or anything like that. their picture is just on the wall of the ILX pizzeria.

Trϵϵship, Sunday, 10 February 2019 23:02 (eight months ago) link

wow please stop posting my thirst trap pictures from like 2 months ago, im a totally different person now

xp

you know who deserves sitewide mod privileges? (m bison), Sunday, 10 February 2019 23:20 (eight months ago) link

thread should have been called who da fuq is AOC imo

||||||||, Monday, 11 February 2019 12:36 (eight months ago) link

Alabama Open Carry

pomenitul, Monday, 11 February 2019 12:38 (eight months ago) link

We find repeated stress throughout the ancient literature on the authority of the deep male voice in contrast to the female.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28_0gXLKLbk

Wee boats wobble but they don't fall down (Tom D.), Monday, 11 February 2019 13:57 (eight months ago) link

I think of AOC like Guru from Gangstarr, like did he have the must naturally great rap voice? probably not...but AOC's great personality, social media savvy and knack for being able to make political points really simple and impactful for people is like Guru's I'll lyrical skills...this is supported by her her progressive left agenda which is like the banging Premo beats of American politics....and the green new deal could be her Hard to Earn

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 11 February 2019 14:02 (eight months ago) link

ums with the most correct take, lock thread

a surprise challenge that ended with a gunging (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 11 February 2019 14:06 (eight months ago) link

Wait, but didn't Guru say that it's mostly the voice?

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Monday, 11 February 2019 14:25 (eight months ago) link

he did but i think he was projecting some of his insecurities tbh

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 11 February 2019 16:38 (eight months ago) link

god now I'm stuck with Thatcher's Miss Jean Brodie routine in my head

Your sweetie-pie-coo-coo I love ya (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 11 February 2019 16:42 (eight months ago) link

safe to say that at least some prominent people fell for the disinformation campaign that immediately popped up around the green new deal

Safe to say Green New Deal will be a staple of Trump's 2020 stump speech: “I really don’t like their policy of taking away your car, of taking away your airplane rights, of let’s hop a train to California, of you’re not allowed to own cows anymore," he said to cheers in El Paso.

— Philip Rucker (@PhilipRucker) February 12, 2019

Karl Malone, Tuesday, 12 February 2019 03:09 (eight months ago) link

hell, his own staff probably came up with the disinformation campaign

Karl Malone, Tuesday, 12 February 2019 03:15 (eight months ago) link

i thought her campaign are admitting that they posted the faq now, but with qualification that it was done prematurely? or is that ref to a different disinfo campaign

flopson, Tuesday, 12 February 2019 03:29 (eight months ago) link

there was a fake version of it circulating that said men had to drink their own urine under this plan

Trϵϵship, Tuesday, 12 February 2019 03:30 (eight months ago) link

in the actual plan, men have to drink everyone else's urine

GDPR vs GAPDY (DJP), Tuesday, 12 February 2019 03:37 (eight months ago) link

right. under socialism, there wouldn't really be a concept of own's "own" urine anyway.

Trϵϵship, Tuesday, 12 February 2019 03:42 (eight months ago) link

Territorial pissings.

Your sweetie-pie-coo-coo I love ya (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 12 February 2019 03:45 (eight months ago) link

lmfao treeship

flappy bird, Tuesday, 12 February 2019 04:05 (eight months ago) link

right. under socialism, there wouldn't really be a concept of own's "own" urine anyway.

new board description please

flappy bird, Tuesday, 12 February 2019 04:06 (eight months ago) link

If socialism means trough urinals, I'm out.

jmm, Tuesday, 12 February 2019 04:13 (eight months ago) link

Romania had trough urinals under Ceausescu. Therefore socialism means having trough urinals. It's pure logic.

A is for (Aimless), Tuesday, 12 February 2019 04:15 (eight months ago) link

it's true, all the commies I know are always posting dank Ceausescu memes

bhad bundy (Simon H.), Tuesday, 12 February 2019 04:40 (eight months ago) link

Bravo Treeship

Frederik B, Tuesday, 12 February 2019 10:26 (eight months ago) link

Albania's ultra-hardline communist dictator Hoxha dotted the countryside with concrete bomb shelters. Now that he's long gone and Albania is finally open, people often use them as toilets.

What goes around ...

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 12 February 2019 13:05 (eight months ago) link

Josh, are you across the street from me?

Your sweetie-pie-coo-coo I love ya (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 12 February 2019 13:09 (eight months ago) link

VERY IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT FROM @AOC. PLEASE PAY CAREFUL ATTENTION 🙏🏽 pic.twitter.com/Ogv5VUnjwL

— THE KID MERO 🇩🇴 (@THEKIDMERO) February 13, 2019

not important but very charming

bhad bundy (Simon H.), Wednesday, 13 February 2019 19:46 (eight months ago) link

She's having too much fun.

A is for (Aimless), Wednesday, 13 February 2019 19:55 (eight months ago) link

fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffolks pic.twitter.com/FvTHcmqdEs

— Simon Maloy (@SimonMaloy) February 13, 2019

here's a pretty legit flaw: she makes gross conservatives really horny

frogbs, Wednesday, 13 February 2019 21:20 (eight months ago) link

"no ice" is pretty good

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 13 February 2019 21:22 (eight months ago) link

That reason and logic liqueur sure is small.

DJI, Wednesday, 13 February 2019 21:50 (eight months ago) link

I could go for a Marxarita right about now.

Fetchboy, Wednesday, 13 February 2019 21:55 (eight months ago) link

This is the first time in my life that I'm sad that I don't own a bar.

Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Wednesday, 13 February 2019 22:04 (eight months ago) link

Late Term Abortion honestly (tasteless or no) sounds like a great name for a cocktail.

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 13 February 2019 22:09 (eight months ago) link

have y'all have Stalin Stale Ale? Too light even for an IPA imo

Your sweetie-pie-coo-coo I love ya (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 13 February 2019 22:12 (eight months ago) link

Late Term Abortion

2 oz gin
1oz lemon juice
1/2 oz grenadine
4 drops saline "tears"
egg white
dry shake ingredients for 10 seconds, then shake with ice for 10 seconds

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 13 February 2019 22:12 (eight months ago) link

Green New Deal

2oz mezcal
1oz green chartreuse
3/4 oz lime
2 drops absinthe
mint for garnish

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 13 February 2019 22:14 (eight months ago) link

Ah, for the simple pleasure of an Irish Car Bomb.

suzy, Wednesday, 13 February 2019 22:16 (eight months ago) link

really hope AOC's old bar orders a print and frames that

frogbs, Wednesday, 13 February 2019 22:56 (eight months ago) link

Late Term Abortion - on demand.

Yerac, Wednesday, 13 February 2019 23:04 (eight months ago) link

Late Term Abortion honestly (tasteless or no) sounds like a great name for a cocktail.

― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, February 13, 2019 10:09 PM (twenty minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

only available for 20 minutes before closing.

affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Wednesday, 13 February 2019 23:13 (eight months ago) link

xpost lol

affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Wednesday, 13 February 2019 23:13 (eight months ago) link

only available for 20 minutes before closing.

+ all the time in december and april

difficult listening hour, Wednesday, 13 February 2019 23:17 (eight months ago) link

again, what is up with the skin coloration on AOC here? I mean...that's not even a remote approximation.

Rhine Jive Click Bait (Hadrian VIII), Wednesday, 13 February 2019 23:56 (eight months ago) link

I guess all non-European Americans are black?

Rhine Jive Click Bait (Hadrian VIII), Wednesday, 13 February 2019 23:57 (eight months ago) link

That's almost Ronaldinho bottle opener-esque caricature

fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Thursday, 14 February 2019 01:51 (eight months ago) link

It's funny how Donald Trump thinks 'Let's hop a train to California' sounds bad.

To me, in London SE13, 'Let's hop a train to California' sounds impossibly romantic.

the pinefox, Thursday, 14 February 2019 08:50 (eight months ago) link

never hopped to Erith on a whim before? !

calzino, Thursday, 14 February 2019 09:18 (eight months ago) link

getting some flack for not sticking up for Ilhan Omar more - not sure if fair or not, not seen enough of whats been said

anvil, Thursday, 14 February 2019 11:05 (eight months ago) link

I often reflect on @AyannaPressley‘s words: “people closest to the pain should be closest to the power.”@IlhanMN is a Somali refugee. She has felt the ravages of war. Watching her question Trump’s envoy to VZ, who pled guilty to several Iran-Contra crimes, feels like justice. https://t.co/3mFv0lmAis

— Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (@AOC) February 14, 2019

bhad bundy (Simon H.), Thursday, 14 February 2019 13:56 (eight months ago) link

here's a pretty legit flaw: she makes gross conservatives really horny

― frogbs

lol this is also a positive though, people tend to show their hand when they're horny

flappy bird, Thursday, 14 February 2019 19:00 (eight months ago) link

yeah......hand....

frogbs, Thursday, 14 February 2019 19:01 (eight months ago) link

I've been struck by her accent lately, or relative lack thereof, especially for a Bronx born Puerto Rican. She sounds kind of midwestern when she speaks.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 14 February 2019 19:19 (eight months ago) link

Jesse Jackson weighs in

DJI, Friday, 15 February 2019 18:28 (eight months ago) link

Love this:

Dr. Martin Luther King used to teach that “cowardice asks the question, is it expedient? And then expedience comes along and asks the question, is it politic? Vanity asks the question, is it popular? Conscience asks the question, is it right? There comes a time when one must take the position that is neither safe nor politic nor popular, but he must do it because conscience tells him it is right.”

DJI, Friday, 15 February 2019 18:36 (eight months ago) link

imagine if AOC actually had this kind of power

https://i.imgur.com/DoSvTD9.png

frogbs, Wednesday, 20 February 2019 16:08 (eight months ago) link

I am surprised they didn't go full tilt and say "thanks for the abortion!"

Yerac, Wednesday, 20 February 2019 16:10 (eight months ago) link

#Socialism Takes Capitalism Creates

Karl Malone, Wednesday, 20 February 2019 16:12 (eight months ago) link

insert "amazon pullout" joke.

Yerac, Wednesday, 20 February 2019 16:12 (eight months ago) link

"Job Creators Network is a nonpartisan organization whose mission is to educate employees of Main Street America, so we can protect the 85 million people who depend on the success of small businesses.

JCN provides business leaders and entrepreneurs with the tools to become the voice of free enterprise in the media, in Congress, in state capitals, in their communities, and their workplaces—allowing them to hold politicians accountable to job creators and their employees.

We are the voice of Main Street."

Yerac, Wednesday, 20 February 2019 16:13 (eight months ago) link

I know it's a lost cause, but the way pro-HQ2 people frame the "loss" that NYC has experienced is literally deranged. There was some classic Slate piece the other day where this moran was raging about all the lost tax revenue the new workers would have paid to the state like someone had set actual bags of money on fire.

rob, Wednesday, 20 February 2019 16:15 (eight months ago) link

socialism sucks!!! also we should give Amazon $3,000,000,000 in handouts!!!!

frogbs, Wednesday, 20 February 2019 16:15 (eight months ago) link

xp I guess fake billboard memes are a small business now

rob, Wednesday, 20 February 2019 16:16 (eight months ago) link

i don't know why i'm always surprised at the ineptitude of rightwing campaigns like this. any conservative that knows what "AOC" refers to already hates her because that's their entire media bubble is telling them to do 24/7. any other new yorker that knows what "AOC" means is going to look at the words "job creators network" and barf. all the people that don't know what "AOC" refers to - the majority of people, i'd say - will think it refers to some company or something

and any doofus that takes that hashtag seriously will accidentally tweet #socialism, followed by the words "takes capitalism creates"

you sure did slay some libs!

Karl Malone, Wednesday, 20 February 2019 16:17 (eight months ago) link

Small Businesses In Defending Destroyer Of Small Businesses SHOCKAH!

a large tuna called “Justice” (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 20 February 2019 16:17 (eight months ago) link

Americans are obsessed with the potential of everything. It's easy to fall in love with things that don't yet exist.

Yerac, Wednesday, 20 February 2019 16:27 (eight months ago) link

xp: For the past 6 years, every time I turn on my desktop monitor the screen is filled with the letters AOC. I've had a bit of cognitive dissonance over the new use.

The feminine side of (Sanpaku), Wednesday, 20 February 2019 16:37 (eight months ago) link

I use AOC almost every day too; I get a thrill of this other use.

Yerac, Wednesday, 20 February 2019 16:53 (eight months ago) link

I like her response to the billboard, she turns it around quite nicely

Few things effectively communicate the power we’ve built in fighting dark money & anti-worker policies like billionaire-funded groups blowing tons of cash on wack billboards (this one is funded by the Mercers).

(PS fact that it’s in Times Sq tells you this isn’t for/by NYers.) https://t.co/B4QTPi1r2k

— Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (@AOC) February 21, 2019

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Thursday, 21 February 2019 06:37 (seven months ago) link

xp: what is the old use?

☮ (peace, man), Thursday, 21 February 2019 09:03 (seven months ago) link

she spelled whoa wrong in a tweet. huge flaw.

forensic plumber (harbl), Thursday, 21 February 2019 13:17 (seven months ago) link

xpost: appellation d'origine contrôlée
in france it's how they basically regulate what products get the geographical designation camembert de normandie, bresse chicken, chablis, bourgogne etcetc.

Yerac, Thursday, 21 February 2019 14:27 (seven months ago) link

but i think it's an acronym for a lot of things.

Yerac, Thursday, 21 February 2019 14:35 (seven months ago) link

AOC and Ilhan were on his list.

A @gwupoe scoop: A LT in the US Coast Guard was arrested this week for drug and gun charges. It looked like a run of the mill case until the detention memo filed yesterday. He had a hit list, contacts with white supremacists, guns, and, again, was an Coastie assigned to HQ.

— Seamus Hughes (@SeamusHughes) February 20, 2019

bhad bundy (Simon H.), Thursday, 21 February 2019 15:08 (seven months ago) link

I openly mused to my wife two weeks ago whether or not she was going to be an assassination target, simply because she reminds me of RFK in her charisma.

akm, Thursday, 21 February 2019 15:24 (seven months ago) link

Americans are obsessed with the potential of everything. It's easy to fall in love with things that don't yet exist.

― Yerac, Wednesday, February 20, 2019 11:27 AM

yes that's why we can't tax the rich proportionally because when i win the lotto they ain't gonna take my money !

(•̪●) (carne asada), Thursday, 21 February 2019 15:35 (seven months ago) link

the temporarily embarrassed millionaire phenomenon is vastly overstated, I think. Has there ever been a time when taxing the rich wasn't polling well? That's why they always had to lie and pretend the estate taxes were going to soak you for selling your grandma's $85k house.

Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Thursday, 21 February 2019 16:46 (seven months ago) link

I know it's bad to make jokes about ass-assinations but someone on my fb was like "why was beto on that list? That's like wanting to ass-assinate the photocopy guy." LOL

Yerac, Thursday, 21 February 2019 16:49 (seven months ago) link

the bigger question for me was Joe Scarborough but that made a lot more sense after remembering that Trump hates Morning Joe

frogbs, Thursday, 21 February 2019 17:55 (seven months ago) link

stochastic terrorism in action

affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Thursday, 21 February 2019 17:56 (seven months ago) link

Scarborough has moved leftward in recent years, which for the rest of us who remember him in Congress means he's part of the loony center.

a Stalin Stale Ale for me, please (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 21 February 2019 18:03 (seven months ago) link

old now, but I liked this quick article
https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-political-scene/how-alexandria-ocasio-cortezs-allies-supplanted-the-obama-generation

k3vin k., Thursday, 21 February 2019 18:32 (seven months ago) link

quick someone get the spray bottle pic.twitter.com/itdOYLM4CD

— KT Nelson (@KrangTNelson) February 20, 2019

omar little, Thursday, 21 February 2019 19:22 (seven months ago) link

omg at "<<Rosario Dawsson séxy>>"; what a creepazoid

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Thursday, 21 February 2019 20:10 (seven months ago) link

lové the uséléss accénts

affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Thursday, 21 February 2019 20:25 (seven months ago) link

(i think he just means "she's puerto rican," right?)

affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Thursday, 21 February 2019 20:26 (seven months ago) link

likély

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Thursday, 21 February 2019 20:27 (seven months ago) link

maybe he could just sasháy himself off the internet

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Thursday, 21 February 2019 20:31 (seven months ago) link

Self-proclaimed sapiosexuals are the worst

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Thursday, 21 February 2019 20:44 (seven months ago) link

love to remove people's brains and climax as I stroke the bare, still-pulsing amygdala

affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Thursday, 21 February 2019 20:45 (seven months ago) link

Jesus

xp

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Thursday, 21 February 2019 20:46 (seven months ago) link

Someone please tell these yahoos that our entire species is sapient. It is right there in our Linnaean name.

A is for (Aimless), Thursday, 21 February 2019 20:48 (seven months ago) link

the most important video of the week is @AOC being attacked by a constituent's dog pic.twitter.com/QkqXdQEeCL

— Bobby Lewis (@revrrlewis) February 21, 2019

Karl Malone, Friday, 22 February 2019 01:33 (seven months ago) link

that poor woman. that looked to be a bulldog. they are notorious slobberers.

A is for (Aimless), Friday, 22 February 2019 01:42 (seven months ago) link

what are Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's flaws? Well, she's definitely too nice to dogs.

ian, Friday, 22 February 2019 01:53 (seven months ago) link

https://splinternews.com/aoc-makes-her-first-grave-error-1832763255

El Tomboto, Friday, 22 February 2019 03:43 (seven months ago) link

haha

i lived in dc when navy yard was still building up. sounds like it sucks pretty hard now.

what is the "good" dc neighborhood she could have lived in, though? i used to love mine (bloomington/eckington) but from what i've heard it's also been completely gentrified now

Karl Malone, Friday, 22 February 2019 03:53 (seven months ago) link

bloomingdaaaale i meant

Karl Malone, Friday, 22 February 2019 03:54 (seven months ago) link

Congress heights

Heez, Friday, 22 February 2019 13:06 (seven months ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgYJgM9pFaA

gbx, Friday, 22 February 2019 18:25 (seven months ago) link

petition to redo LeBron's barbershop show with AOC, Tlaib, and Omar.

Evans on Hammond (evol j), Friday, 22 February 2019 18:27 (seven months ago) link

Dog kiss attack is why dogs are better than cats.

Gaseous Clay (Leee), Friday, 22 February 2019 21:29 (seven months ago) link

My cats do this in their own way

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Friday, 22 February 2019 22:48 (seven months ago) link

Mindful that this edit is truncated, but that dog owner gives all dog owners a bad name. If you can't keep your dog from attacking or slobbering over strangers, then you don't need a dog too big to control.

The feminine side of (Sanpaku), Sunday, 24 February 2019 21:49 (seven months ago) link

This Rolling Stone interview is excellent.

You told Anderson Cooper you want people to underestimate you because that’s how you won your primary. When is it safe to let that go and unabashedly take charge?
People like to make these disparaging statements, like, “Oh, she’s good at Twitter. Is she gonna be an actual legislator?” I think it’s fine at the outset to be underestimated in that capacity. Where I do tell people to come correct is when they try to paint me as unintelligent, as unsubstantive. That’s when you see me fire back. When you call Elizabeth Warren or Kamala Harris “unlikable,” that’s an unsubstantial, unsubstantive, fluff, bullshit, misogynistic word to use. Unlikable? What is that? It’s not a policy critique. Paul Ryan was a con man for 10 years, and he was called a wunderkind for policies that were designed to just gut working families dry. But I’m the charlatan. So . . .

grawlix (unperson), Wednesday, 27 February 2019 15:57 (seven months ago) link

how dare you, AOC. paul ryan was the greatest policy genius of the last 80 years. he was a wonk! he was called a wonk! and so he was a wonk. he was a wonk because he got called a wonk, and if we turn back on that now, then what else was everyone lying about?

Karl Malone, Wednesday, 27 February 2019 20:56 (seven months ago) link

what is this feeling of not being disappointed in a politician

frogbs, Wednesday, 27 February 2019 21:03 (seven months ago) link

I am very interested in what people do (obviously) before they become politicians. It's so dramatic when someone actually wants to help. And not in the saving all the unborn/nonexistant babies type of way. Like it really weirds me out when pastors go into politics (I mean I get what they are after), but such a large amount of the people that go into politics it's either i)enrichment or ii) some kind of ennui with their current career choice iii) unfulfilled white man destiny.

Yerac, Wednesday, 27 February 2019 21:13 (seven months ago) link

tbrr, if you weren't broke or near broke at some point in your life, i don't want to hear shit from you about politics or ethics or morals or policing or economics

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Wednesday, 27 February 2019 21:25 (seven months ago) link

i have been near-broke for 2 years and will be for another 3-4, in grad school in economics lol

flopson, Wednesday, 27 February 2019 21:30 (seven months ago) link

glad forks will listen to my opinions :)

flopson, Wednesday, 27 February 2019 21:31 (seven months ago) link

like if you never had to check your balance before payday to make sure you can cover fast food dinner you can't fucking relate to normal people

(•̪●) (carne asada), Wednesday, 27 February 2019 21:31 (seven months ago) link

xpost but instead of obtaining empathy from being poor, a lot of politicians choose to make it " bootstraps self mythologizing fuck those lazy poor people".

Yerac, Wednesday, 27 February 2019 21:32 (seven months ago) link

btw if anyone wants to read an 8000 word version of my MMT post up thread by a left-pugilist writer whose tweets morbs c/p’s into random politics threads i strongly recommend this post by Doug Henwood in new jacobin https://www.jacobinmag.com/2019/02/modern-monetary-theory-isnt-helping

flopson, Wednesday, 27 February 2019 21:32 (seven months ago) link

my dad was a teacher before he ran for public office and it always burned me tf up when people would claim he was some kind of fat cat. he was an english teacher.

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Wednesday, 27 February 2019 21:35 (seven months ago) link

ya it’s kind of a dumb rule. i mean as long as you make exceptions for ppl who really pull off the ‘traitor to their class’. FDR was a rich bitch iirc

flopson, Wednesday, 27 February 2019 21:42 (seven months ago) link

I usually only look up GOP or really interesting dems. It's always a lot of lawyers, pastors, "businessmen", or career politicians.

Yerac, Wednesday, 27 February 2019 21:42 (seven months ago) link

even the career politicians did something before they were elected to public office

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Wednesday, 27 February 2019 21:43 (seven months ago) link

"Roosevelt held little passion for the practice of law and confided to friends that he planned to eventually enter politics" (wiki) HA!

Yerac, Wednesday, 27 February 2019 21:45 (seven months ago) link

the career politicians I am thinking about were the ones that were interning for other politicians out of college and got various jobs working for politicians.

Yerac, Wednesday, 27 February 2019 21:46 (seven months ago) link

if anyone's watching the Cohen hearing, she got him to implicate Trump in like 3 more felonies in a matter of about two minutes

frogbs, Wednesday, 27 February 2019 21:49 (seven months ago) link

not only did she get Cohen to name names but also provided groundwork to subpoena his tax returns

frogbs, Wednesday, 27 February 2019 21:50 (seven months ago) link

FUCK YOU MEADOWS

(•̪●) (carne asada), Wednesday, 27 February 2019 21:57 (seven months ago) link

tbrr, if you weren't broke or near broke at some point in your life, i don't want to hear shit from you about politics or ethics or morals or policing or economics

on the other end of this, i am soooooo beyond tired of multimillion dollar politicians. i don't know any of these people in real life, and the one that i do is a complete asshole who is so detached from reality that it's fascinating, in its own way. how absurd that the vast majority of the population is made up of people made up of people who will never get close to 6 digits in their bank accounts, represented by politicians who will never close to 5 digits

Karl Malone, Wednesday, 27 February 2019 22:27 (seven months ago) link

The Democrat appearing in CPAC videos and speeches the most, by far: @AOC. More than any 2020 Dem. An Oliver North-narrated NRA video just ended with the footage of her dancing outside her office, with the color drained to make it look more ominous.

— Dave Weigel (@daveweigel) February 28, 2019

frogbs, Thursday, 28 February 2019 14:49 (seven months ago) link

"more ominous"

We were never Breeting Borting (President Keyes), Thursday, 28 February 2019 15:28 (seven months ago) link

Elie Mystal had a very nice take that the freshman dem congresswomen were magnitudes better than anyone else during the hearing(s) because they already know how to capture an audience whenever they want and they don't need tv to do it. Everyone else is making soliloquies and trying to manufacture their moment because they never get national attention.

Yerac, Thursday, 28 February 2019 15:39 (seven months ago) link

so therefore they could take that time to actually work and govern.

Yerac, Thursday, 28 February 2019 15:39 (seven months ago) link

I wonder if after yesterday’s hearing conservatives still think my staff is “overpaid.” 😉 https://t.co/us4I3BpobK

— Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (@AOC) February 28, 2019

Plinka Trinka Banga Tink (Eliza D.), Thursday, 28 February 2019 15:42 (seven months ago) link

Also they are old establishment dorks that are actually good buddies with the other old jerks on the right

(•̪●) (carne asada), Thursday, 28 February 2019 15:46 (seven months ago) link

I really liked this quote from her interview - I'd never thought about it this way before

One of the things that I bring to the table is a visceral understanding that people under 40 have been shaped by an entirely different set of events. We’ve literally grown up in different Americas. They were shaped by a Cold War America, a post-World War II America; and we are an Iraq War America, a 9/11 America, a hyper-capitalism-has-never-worked-for-us, Great Recession America. People are used to talking about millennials as if we’re teenagers. We’re in our thirties now. We’re raising kids and getting married and having families, and we have mortgages and student-loan debt. It’s important that [Congress is] in touch. People tend to interpret this as me railing against older people and being ageist. But that’s not what this is about. It’s a problem of representation. We don’t have enough intergenerational representation. We largely have one generation. That’s not to say that one generation should be out of power, it’s that others should be here as well.

seems pertinent, especially given the fact that there are people being deployed to Afghanistan now who weren't even born when 9/11 happened

frogbs, Thursday, 28 February 2019 15:46 (seven months ago) link

She’s wonderful.

Trϵϵship, Thursday, 28 February 2019 15:50 (seven months ago) link

A godsend. When I first heard of her victory—twentysomething dem socialist from the bronx—I was excited but I didn’t expect her to immediately be the most on point member of congress.

Trϵϵship, Thursday, 28 February 2019 15:51 (seven months ago) link

yeah, hopefully they raise the bar immediately, because the 3 of them in a row really showed up the entire committee. boom boom boom.

Yerac, Thursday, 28 February 2019 15:58 (seven months ago) link

I didn't think Tlaib (sp?) and Omar made especially useful contributions. i think their affect was more appealing to me -- I empathized with the nature of their outrage. but I'm not sure what they got done. i recognize that getting something "done" can be interepreted a number of ways, and maybe Tlaib making Rep. Meadows sputter and gasp was itself some sort of small achievement. but the focus and organization that AOC brought to the hearing was something else.

affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Thursday, 28 February 2019 16:05 (seven months ago) link

I thought Ayanna P was really good and I enjoyed Meadows melting down and that Tlaib brought up what everyone was thinking.

Yerac, Thursday, 28 February 2019 16:10 (seven months ago) link

it wasn't Omar, it was Ayanna Pressley (who apparently is 45 years old? I would've guessed at least a decade younger). I thought she was good but AOC clearly had a measured strategy and it was immediately apparent that hers was the most fruitful line of questioning: she got several additional names out of him and effectively got him to say "there are probably additional crimes and/or corroborating evidence in the tax returns"

frogbs, Thursday, 28 February 2019 16:12 (seven months ago) link

I assume Tlaib had good questioning as well (too lazy to go back and rewatch), the Meadows debacle overshadowed it obv.

Yerac, Thursday, 28 February 2019 16:12 (seven months ago) link

also this is insane to rank them in terms of jobs well done. All three were noticeable better than most/all. AOC is the winner if we are going there. sheesh.

Yerac, Thursday, 28 February 2019 16:13 (seven months ago) link

I wonder how much the committee members coordinate their questioning. "AOC you focus on the exaggerated financials, ABC you follow this line of questioning, XYZ that line of questioning..." and among Republicans "Jordan you be the main attack dog, Meadows you introduce the black lady, you three have articles entered into the record" etc. There has to be some coordination.

ILX Moderator: It's Like a Pressure Wash for Your Insides (WmC), Thursday, 28 February 2019 16:13 (seven months ago) link

btw I love that Tlaib's comment got that Meadows birtherism video out again. I wish she'd brought it up but I'm guessing she didn't know about it. this is one of my favorite things about the new congresswomen - they're not out to make friends. the moment where Cummings said something like, "you might not believe it, but Meadows and I are actually best friends" felt really slimy to me.

frogbs, Thursday, 28 February 2019 16:13 (seven months ago) link

and among Republicans "Jordan you be the main attack dog, Meadows you introduce the black lady, you three have articles entered into the record" etc. There has to be some coordination.

lol every Republican did the exact same thing

"Mr. Cohen, is it true that you are a no-good dirty liar??"
"Mr. Cohen, is it also true that you are a fraud and that this hearing is a sham?"
"Mr. Cohen, will you agree to donate all of your money to charity right now?"

frogbs, Thursday, 28 February 2019 16:15 (seven months ago) link

AOC is on another level than Omar. She's clear, confident, to the point, doesn't grandstand, makes substantive contributions, etc. She's a political wizard. Omar struggles to articulate her thoughts, she mostly produces political outrage soundbites. It's just not apples to apples.

Mordy, Thursday, 28 February 2019 16:15 (seven months ago) link

I am glad that AOC has pointed out that women (women of color) have to work twice as hard to get where they are but in doing that extra work know how to perform when they need to.

Yerac, Thursday, 28 February 2019 16:18 (seven months ago) link

yes fuck that shit "you might not believe it, but Meadows and I are actually best friends" i can;t even be facebook friends with assholes that voted for Trump much less be friends with people actively covering for him in congress and enabling his bullshit .

(•̪●) (carne asada), Thursday, 28 February 2019 16:20 (seven months ago) link

My mom: "You know I've really changed my mind about AOC, she's great!"
Me: :)
My mom: "I think she could be the next Nancy Pelosi"
Me: :/

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 28 February 2019 16:23 (seven months ago) link

xxxp yea Omar is sort of what I expected AOC to be - great policy views and not afraid to call out the GOP's constant hypocrisy but she's not the best speaker and her political instincts are a little off sometimes. not that I had reason to doubt AOC but you kinda expect that out of a 29-year old w/ no political experience. it's apparent now that AOC is basically a generational talent, like Mike Trout if Mike Trout had spent his teenage years making Subway sandwiches

frogbs, Thursday, 28 February 2019 16:23 (seven months ago) link

I think Omar is fine as a speaker. She has an accent and I assume slows down her speech to make sure that she is clearly heard.

Yerac, Thursday, 28 February 2019 16:26 (seven months ago) link

As soon as I told me spouse that AOC won a prize at the Intel ISEF he was like, ohhh she must be really smart and was sold on her.

Yerac, Thursday, 28 February 2019 16:29 (seven months ago) link

You know, guys - by which I mean MALE POSTERS - you don’t have to dunk on one extremely talented woman in politics to show how much more talented you think her colleague and ally is. Maybe you’re not used to being told how sexist this looks, so please do take it on the chin.

suzy, Thursday, 28 February 2019 16:30 (seven months ago) link

lol ok suzy

Mordy, Thursday, 28 February 2019 16:32 (seven months ago) link

haha^^^ yeah xpost. That shit above is insane. they can't help themselves.

Yerac, Thursday, 28 February 2019 16:33 (seven months ago) link

feel like accusations of sexism when someone is pointing out differences between two women politicians who are often compared to one another is pretty incoherent but if you really want to shut down any criticisms maybe try islamophobia?

Mordy, Thursday, 28 February 2019 16:35 (seven months ago) link

AOC is on another level to almost anyone else in congress.

Trϵϵship, Thursday, 28 February 2019 16:36 (seven months ago) link

Is Omar compared to AOC a lot? I am totally unaware of this. Is that why she is even being brought up on what was a positive take that the dem freshwomen in general did a great job yesterday.

Yerac, Thursday, 28 February 2019 16:40 (seven months ago) link

Elie Mystal had a very nice take that the freshman dem congresswomen were magnitudes better than anyone else during the hearing(s) because....

― Yerac, Thursday, February 28, 2019 10:39 AM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This was the post that precipitated Mordy's comments abt Omar. He wasn't pulling two women out of thin air. Calling sexism on that is bullshit.

Rhine Jive Click Bait (Hadrian VIII), Thursday, 28 February 2019 16:43 (seven months ago) link

oh because I put that (s) after hearing? OKKKKKK.

Yerac, Thursday, 28 February 2019 16:45 (seven months ago) link

tbh i think gummy's comment confused me above so mea culpa

Mordy, Thursday, 28 February 2019 16:45 (seven months ago) link

I think it was from Gummy accidentally saying Omar instead of Ayanna.

Yerac, Thursday, 28 February 2019 16:45 (seven months ago) link

xpost.

Yerac, Thursday, 28 February 2019 16:46 (seven months ago) link

ftr AOC is an incredible talent and i'm more impressed with her all the time, i don't think it makes sense to claim that there's an entire class that is at her level.

Mordy, Thursday, 28 February 2019 16:46 (seven months ago) link

yeah i didnt read sexism at all but i'm just a dumb dude so idk

(•̪●) (carne asada), Thursday, 28 February 2019 16:46 (seven months ago) link

xps wait was there not a conversation grouping these three together and suggesting that each was superior to all the other commitee mebers? I hardly see how identifying Omar's percieved shortcomings in this context is sexist.

Rhine Jive Click Bait (Hadrian VIII), Thursday, 28 February 2019 16:48 (seven months ago) link

I think just as a general guideline, regardless of exactly what happened/who xposted/etc itt, it's nice to remember that when discussing our current rockstar new electeds, there doesn't always need to be a "winner" or direct comparisons made in order to say nice things about others.

AOC was solid as a rock yesterday. So excited for her future success.

There's more Italy than necessary. (in orbit), Thursday, 28 February 2019 16:49 (seven months ago) link

Yerac I wasn't taking issue w what you wrote btw

Rhine Jive Click Bait (Hadrian VIII), Thursday, 28 February 2019 16:52 (seven months ago) link

It's because Omar wasn't there yesterday (unless I missed it).

Yerac, Thursday, 28 February 2019 16:53 (seven months ago) link

I have no idea why dudes brought her up, apart from to knock her in comparison to AOC. She did a similar style great job on her Elliott Abrams questions the other day. I think they’re both really good.

Dudes, if someone’s telling you to consider your analysis might be a bit sexist/misogynoir, and that was not your overt intention, consider it might be an undercurrent. In any event, you did characterise the darker woman as over-emotional and less reliable than her colleague.

suzy, Thursday, 28 February 2019 16:54 (seven months ago) link

wtf

(•̪●) (carne asada), Thursday, 28 February 2019 16:55 (seven months ago) link

I thought she did a pretty bad job with Abrams the other day fwiw. Consider that not all politicians are equally talented?

Mordy, Thursday, 28 February 2019 16:56 (seven months ago) link

XP and in orbit OTM, there doesn’t need to be a winner of a contest here.

suzy, Thursday, 28 February 2019 16:57 (seven months ago) link

Overall I was amazed at how rare it was for anyone on camera yesterday to be able to speak in full sentences that actually landed where they were going. Like, worse than the general population of my workplace, which is saying something. AOC and all the Dems in general were better spoken than any GOPers afaict but really it was shocking. Aside from maybe Justin Amash, I could tell which party was speaking even when I wasn't watching the video just by listening for subject-verb agreement.

There's more Italy than necessary. (in orbit), Thursday, 28 February 2019 16:58 (seven months ago) link

xps oof back to read-only itt

Rhine Jive Click Bait (Hadrian VIII), Thursday, 28 February 2019 16:58 (seven months ago) link

Like, don't these people have to campaign and make speeches to get elected?? xp to self

There's more Italy than necessary. (in orbit), Thursday, 28 February 2019 16:59 (seven months ago) link

I think the best thing about AOC - which was probably indicative of the 2018 election as a whole - is no doubt her ability to draw more young people into this maelstrom of bullshit to make it a better place. I caught myself the other day thinking, jeez, this person (at least for now) really seems like a political virtuoso, where has she been?! And then my brain immediately reminded me, duh, she's almost 20 years younger than me, still in her late 20s, this is about as early as she can get in there.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 28 February 2019 16:59 (seven months ago) link

^^^ I was shocked by how terrible some of the congresspeople with JDs(actively had practiced) were with their questioning.

Yerac, Thursday, 28 February 2019 17:00 (seven months ago) link

I was shocked at how much better Michael Cohen, graduate of the alleged worst law school in the country, did than several of those chuckleheads.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 28 February 2019 17:03 (seven months ago) link

Like, don't these people have to campaign and make speeches to get elected??

a lot of them don't

we're far from the challops now (voodoo chili), Thursday, 28 February 2019 17:06 (seven months ago) link

AOC is on another level than Omar. She's clear, confident, to the point, doesn't grandstand, makes substantive contributions, etc. She's a political wizard. Omar struggles to articulate her thoughts, she mostly produces political outrage soundbites. It's just not apples to apples.


On a pure gut level Doesn’t Grandstand has become what I appreciate most in any national office holder or seeker.

Larry Elleison (rogermexico.), Thursday, 28 February 2019 17:06 (seven months ago) link

XP and in orbit OTM, there doesn’t need to be a winner of a contest here.


ILX is nothing if not a rank-order list generator.

Larry Elleison (rogermexico.), Thursday, 28 February 2019 17:08 (seven months ago) link

They’re our main marketable product really

moose; squirrel (silby), Thursday, 28 February 2019 17:14 (seven months ago) link

I think because of what a crazy-huge national profile AOC has garnered in such a short period of time (at least half-driven by thirsty-ass dudes on the right), it's very easy to overlook that each of these people's main job is to represent the interests and needs of their constituencies. and just by the fact of their identities I think AOC, Omar, and Tlaib are innately already doing a better job than probably anyone any of these districts has had in a long time. without looking it up I know MN has large Somali communities and I assume that's true of Omar's district, and the same with Tlaib and Muslim-Americans and AOC and Puerto Ricans.

Evans on Hammond (evol j), Thursday, 28 February 2019 17:15 (seven months ago) link

new poll : Best New Congresswoman
poll end 12/31/9999

(•̪●) (carne asada), Thursday, 28 February 2019 17:15 (seven months ago) link

I was shocked by how terrible some of the congresspeople with JDs (actively had practiced) were with their questioning.

This is mainly a function of lazy preparation and mediocre staff work, not just a tediously unimaginative Republican strategy that was dictated by the leadership. Most reps spend huge amounts of time on the phone schmoozing big donors and leave much of the serious work of research and legislative strategy to their staff, who brief them on what to do 'just-in-time'. That's why AOC praised her "overpaid staff" to them. She and they know where the real work gets done.

A is for (Aimless), Thursday, 28 February 2019 17:19 (seven months ago) link

The republicans’ whole project was to deflect. There wasn’t really a “good” way they could have done it.

Trϵϵship, Thursday, 28 February 2019 17:21 (seven months ago) link

Their whole tactic was to say Cohen was asking for it and he never said 'no'.

Yerac, Thursday, 28 February 2019 17:24 (seven months ago) link

Not a cool guy, obviously, but Cohen crushed it honestly, especially when he told them that he got in trouble because he did the same thing they were doing—defending Trump by any means they could

Trϵϵship, Thursday, 28 February 2019 17:26 (seven months ago) link

Wasn't this thread title going to be changed because it was terrible?

Yerac, Thursday, 28 February 2019 17:26 (seven months ago) link

No. Only pitchfork and stalin try to rewrite history.

Trϵϵship, Thursday, 28 February 2019 17:31 (seven months ago) link

The archives should stay as they are (barring something egregious obviously)

Trϵϵship, Thursday, 28 February 2019 17:32 (seven months ago) link

also this is insane to rank them in terms of jobs well done. All three were noticeable better than most/all. AOC is the winner if we are going there. sheesh.

― Yerac, Thursday, February 28, 2019 4:13 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is true. i was responding to some posts above, but it is a silly game. sorry for contributing to it.

affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Thursday, 28 February 2019 17:34 (seven months ago) link

although i should note that if people compare/contrast it's partly because
1) they are all freshman congresspeople w/ high profiles
2) they actually make lots of public appearances together, and IIRC aren't omar and tlaib AOC's apartmentmates?

so it's not like the only reason for "grouping" them is b/c they are women of color. they actually kind of run in a pack! in a good way!

affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Thursday, 28 February 2019 17:36 (seven months ago) link

I could tell which party was speaking even when I wasn't watching the video just by listening for subject-verb agreement.

Well, that and having to reach for the volume button on my computer to turn down the blowhard GOP firebreathers.

pee-tape pay per view special (Dan Peterson), Thursday, 28 February 2019 17:37 (seven months ago) link

yeah I'm not sure what a "winning" Republican strategy could've been, given that Cohen was going to prison trying to protect Trump. still, I am pretty sure "yell and shame Cohen until you're red in the face" was probably not the best way to do it

frogbs, Thursday, 28 February 2019 17:37 (seven months ago) link

Let us remember that for at least 20 years the GOP has run people whose purpose is to be as incompetent as possible to show how incompetent the federal govt is

Let's have sensible centrist armageddon (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 28 February 2019 17:44 (seven months ago) link

i'm not sure you can call that "purposeful" -- it's just kind of a dynamic of its own.

affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Thursday, 28 February 2019 17:44 (seven months ago) link

a vicious circle, if you will

affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Thursday, 28 February 2019 17:45 (seven months ago) link

NHS, that's the mission, expressed in a leaked Bush-era memo.

Let's have sensible centrist armageddon (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 28 February 2019 17:48 (seven months ago) link

*nah

Let's have sensible centrist armageddon (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 28 February 2019 17:49 (seven months ago) link

That *would* be your autocorrect

fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Thursday, 28 February 2019 18:06 (seven months ago) link

You're welcome!

Let's have sensible centrist armageddon (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 28 February 2019 18:08 (seven months ago) link

Michael Cohen, graduate of the alleged worst law school in the country

To be fair, Rashida Tlaib also got her JD from the same place (as did Joseph Overton of "window" fame). It's basically a diploma mill for law degrees and a bunch of MI political types have gone there (it's also right down the road from me).

joygoat, Thursday, 28 February 2019 18:43 (seven months ago) link

xpost

i was wondering what the National Health has to do w/ this!

affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Thursday, 28 February 2019 19:56 (seven months ago) link

WaPo hyping up Dem discord, or moderates stepping on rakes (or both!)?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/house-democrats-explode-in-recriminations-as-liberals-lash-out-at-moderates/2019/02/28/c3d163fe-3b87-11e9-a06c-3ec8ed509d15_story.html?utm_term=.3fe3d46d9867

this seems like the key bit:

Publicly and privately, Pelosi has urged members to treat the Republican motions as procedural feints that should be routinely ignored. “Vote no — just vote no,” she told reporters Thursday, “because the fact is, a vote yes is to give leverage to the other side.” But Hoyer and Clyburn believe that is untenable when Republicans stand ready to use those votes as political cudgels against vulnerable Democrats.

somehow Hoyer and Clyburn still not understanding that the GOP is NEVER going to give you credit for voting with them. they don't need a cudgel; regardless of which way you vote they're going to smear you as a MS-13 coddling Communist baby-killer when campaign season rolls around.

Evans on Hammond (evol j), Friday, 1 March 2019 15:11 (seven months ago) link

Republicans buy cudgels by the freight car load, because you can never have too many cudgels. And besides, the Republicans in the House know they have nothing else to do for two years than polish their cudgel collection.

A is for (Aimless), Friday, 1 March 2019 17:55 (seven months ago) link

something to keep in mind when pondering AOC's smart questioning etc - not to say she's not talented or smart, but keep in mind she actually has time to confer with staff and do research and stuff since she's not bound to the conventional donor relationships and the schedule that entails

Per the @aoc call time conversation, here is how the DCCC suggests to freshmen that they spend their time as members of Congress. (GOP is no different.) https://t.co/gIVPLErblM pic.twitter.com/DTZFp14Wim

— Ryan Grim (@ryangrim) March 1, 2019

bhad bundy (Simon H.), Friday, 1 March 2019 18:37 (seven months ago) link

one thing missed in the coverage btw is that she DID do a bit of what could be construed as grandstanding by connecting the dots to something local to her district and vividly meaningful to the people who elected her, talking abt the stupid huge trump golf course in the bronx. but she did it smartly and it didn't crowd out her actually questioning the person who had been called in to be questioned, which yeah she did better than anybody. just bam bam bam who else should we be calling in here to question about x, what do we need to subpoena.

|Restore| |Restart| |Quit| (Doctor Casino), Friday, 1 March 2019 19:32 (seven months ago) link

i guess not grandstanding exactly, but, yknow, using a portion of her 5 mins for making a point.

|Restore| |Restart| |Quit| (Doctor Casino), Friday, 1 March 2019 19:34 (seven months ago) link

Trump’s tax returns have long been a white whale for Democrats eager to determine if they can prove that the President committed tax fraud or engaged in untoward foreign dealings.

But Michael Cohen’s congressional testimony this week strengthened Democrats’ motivation for requesting them from the IRS, Democratic aides told NBC.

Cohen testified that Congress could find in Trump’s tax returns proof that the President alternately deflated the value of his assets to lower his taxes and inflated their value to insurance companies as it suited his business interests.

“Would it help for the committee to obtain federal and state tax returns from the president and his company to address that discrepancy?” Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY) asked Cohen at one point during his testimony before the House Oversight Committee.

“I believe so,” Cohen replied.

thanking you, aoc

Karl Malone, Saturday, 2 March 2019 02:05 (seven months ago) link

God I hope she shames a few of these fools into stepping their game up. Lady shouldn’t have to be doing everything around here.

Evans on Hammond (evol j), Saturday, 2 March 2019 02:27 (seven months ago) link

Omar is doing great: https://www.mediaite.com/online/rep-ilhan-omar-defies-democratic-leaders-by-refusing-to-recognize-venezuelas-guaido-absolutely-not/

“Well the constitution of Venezuela says that there needs to be an election called within 30 days and we’re waiting for that to happen. What we should be involved in is having diplomatic conversations and bringing people to the table and being a partner in facilitating that,” Omar said, adding “we are threatening, we are threatening intervention” and “sending humanitarian aid that is in the guise of, you know, eventually invading this country and the people of the country don’t want us there.”

When asked if she recognizes the opposition as the leader, Omar, who sits on the House Foreign Affairs Committee, said, “Absolutely not.”

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 2 March 2019 19:53 (seven months ago) link

Apparently Bezos is trying to cancel her or something. Sounds very tedious. Hope she can handle the establishment's first concerted effort to derail her

imago, Wednesday, 6 March 2019 10:59 (seven months ago) link

idk if this is a flaw but i do want to know why she put out this broad vague set of aspirational guidelines for the green bill and didn't partner up with a leftist climate group to propose and promote an actual bill. why just throw out these goals and hope for someone else to figure out the legislation?

Mordy, Thursday, 7 March 2019 16:07 (seven months ago) link

it seems really half-assed

Mordy, Thursday, 7 March 2019 16:07 (seven months ago) link

think the goal was to move the Overton window as quickly as possible rather than come out with a detailed, concrete plan, which could take months to put together

she's only been on the job for like 2 months

frogbs, Thursday, 7 March 2019 16:10 (seven months ago) link

there are so many NGOs out there not one of them has legislation prepared that she could back? maybe this is the secret to why the left is so ineffective bc i'm sure Cato or whoever have a stack of legislation for every topic you might want to pursue just waiting for a congressperson to champion

Mordy, Thursday, 7 March 2019 16:12 (seven months ago) link

I do not care what the “green new deal” actually is or might be but it sure as heck is a punchy phrase and so I’m in favor of rallying people behind it. The Medicare for all bill is real but who knows what’s actually in it? Not me. Who cares

moose; squirrel (silby), Thursday, 7 March 2019 16:14 (seven months ago) link

there are so many NGOs out there not one of them has legislation prepared that she could back? maybe this is the secret to why the left is so ineffective bc i'm sure Cato or whoever have a stack of legislation for every topic you might want to pursue just waiting for a congressperson to champion

― Mordy, Thursday, March 7, 2019

Ya think this version of the GOP cares about policy positions?

Let's have sensible centrist armageddon (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 7 March 2019 16:18 (seven months ago) link

I'm perfectly happy with talking points for now.

Let's have sensible centrist armageddon (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 7 March 2019 16:18 (seven months ago) link

why? how could it be anything other than a good thing to have actual legislation to propose + promote?

Mordy, Thursday, 7 March 2019 16:22 (seven months ago) link

You can do both. Who knows what goes on in the bowels of congressional staff offices?

Let's have sensible centrist armageddon (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 7 March 2019 16:27 (seven months ago) link

It wouldn’t not be good but it’s also not bad to not have it.

moose; squirrel (silby), Thursday, 7 March 2019 16:27 (seven months ago) link

Tbh if she tied it to a specific bill, she would be expected to have all the answers about the particulars, and her or her partner would have to be "expert" all the time and opponents would be trying to trip her up with statistics & details that they would twist and fake.

Leaving it un-specific allows all kinds of different thoughts and approaches to be proposed and for input from more parties over time--anyone can get in the ring. People who are willing to do the work can make it be what they want = they will be more committed to goals that they took part in shaping. This is basic good organizing.

There's more Italy than necessary. (in orbit), Thursday, 7 March 2019 16:59 (seven months ago) link

"she would be expected to have all the answers about the particulars, and her or her partner would have to be "expert" all the time"

this would not be a bad thing to be able to answer particulars and be an expert on the topic she wants to make a difference in

Mordy, Thursday, 7 March 2019 17:04 (seven months ago) link

disagree, all that would happen is that she would be nitpicked to death by disingenuous pedants (see also: institutionalized sexism)

much better to have everyone freaking out about their hamburgers being banned imo

Emperor Tonetta Ketchup (sleeve), Thursday, 7 March 2019 17:06 (seven months ago) link

I mean we already see this so much in the counter-narrative - picking apart the tiniest details of her life so the "hypocrite" card can be played

Emperor Tonetta Ketchup (sleeve), Thursday, 7 March 2019 17:07 (seven months ago) link

Who knows what the answers will be? If the govt really wants to fund and support something, we could very soon be dealing with technology that we don't even know about yet. She's moving the window and also making a point that if America/Americans REALLY WANT something, it can and will happen even if it's not clear how at first. I saw a historical comparison somewhere recently (maybe AOC said it?), about how many planes were being produced per year by American industry when Pearl Harbor was attacked vs how many aircraft were produced in the years afterward--far beyond what experts had thought possible, because the country mobilized resources to do it.

There's more Italy than necessary. (in orbit), Thursday, 7 March 2019 17:13 (seven months ago) link

this would not be a bad thing to be able to answer particulars and be an expert on the topic she wants to make a difference in

Can you think of a single politician that was successful because they proved they were an expert in a highly technical topic?

I know the right is trying to paint her as lightweight on policy. So what? Ignore them.

lukas, Thursday, 7 March 2019 17:21 (seven months ago) link

mordy, I found this article helpful re: your question:
https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2019/2/23/18228142/green-new-deal-critics

k3vin k., Thursday, 7 March 2019 17:24 (seven months ago) link

i'm sure Cato or whoever have a stack of legislation for every topic you might want to pursue just waiting for a congressperson to champion

republicans dgaf about cato policy papers

flopson, Thursday, 7 March 2019 20:15 (seven months ago) link

that's what I said upthread. Only NRO does.

Let's have sensible centrist armageddon (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 7 March 2019 20:17 (seven months ago) link

it seems really half-assed

it's a perfectly acceptable form of leadership. the legislative process already ensures that there will be a lot of inputs into the sausage that will make up the final bill. it wasn't necessary for her to replicate that entire process before making her proposal. whatever bill she put in the hopper would have come out much different in the end anyway. instead she provided a rallying point for those who were attracted by the general concept, where their numbers and enthusiasm could become visible, so that her colleagues could see the political will the voters had around this. it activated that will in very visible and persuasive ways.

A is for (Aimless), Thursday, 7 March 2019 20:40 (seven months ago) link

yeah at this point it's less about specifics (we already know what needs to be done) and more about getting voters to recognize that we have a small window for drastic action. I like when she said something to the effect of "if you don't like the GND, then propose your own solution" - framing this as a problem that must be solved, not something that "the science is still out" on, as the GOP has done for the last 30+ years.

frogbs, Thursday, 7 March 2019 21:04 (seven months ago) link

the other, obvious problem with an actual bill is the Senate and the President; there is essentially no chance one could get passed. moving the overton window, however, is both doable and a thing that's been done by the far right without much pushback

theorizing your yells (katherine), Thursday, 7 March 2019 21:08 (seven months ago) link

https://www.rawstory.com/2019/03/conservative-calls-cookie-boycott-aoc-used-girl-scout/

this (unfortunately) reminded me that apparently there's some new fever dream batshittery spreading through the right about AOC and I think campaign finance violation or something involving financial impropriety, that honestly makes me far too exhausted to even begin to learn more about. which is I guess partly how these people get their narratives to develop a foothold, through sheer spiteful relentlessness. I do know my father-in-law, who like many old conservative men is disturbingly obsessed by this young lady, was accusing her on Facebook yesterday of "making money moves" (I'm sure the Cardi echo was either completely accidental or literally stolen verbatim from some conservative site, either way it's hilarious).

Evans on Hammond (evol j), Friday, 8 March 2019 15:28 (seven months ago) link

I know what story you're talking about but I think it got debunked the day after

frogbs, Friday, 8 March 2019 15:31 (seven months ago) link

Omar is getting better every day how is this possible:

Ilhan Omar on Barack Obama. Wow:https://t.co/qzeccRujOs pic.twitter.com/dQuXleRwMS

— Blake News (@blakehounshell) March 8, 2019

xyzzzz__, Friday, 8 March 2019 16:26 (seven months ago) link

even as a overton window shifting flex the AOC GND was kinda confused though (both a job Guarantee and security for those ‘not willing to work’, only 1/3 of expenditures on climate, nothing about tech/subsidy to green R&D). i don’t think it was a major fuck up or anything but ‘early draft of a policy can be vague on details of it gets the picture right’ doesn’t preclude any criticism and a lot of the proposals that have come up since improve on it without compromising on ambition

flopson, Friday, 8 March 2019 21:49 (seven months ago) link

that’s great!

k3vin k., Friday, 8 March 2019 23:37 (seven months ago) link

The Left has swallowed this misconception that corporate malfeasance is at the root of climate inaction. In truth, we have done practically nothing in the past three decades while cumulative emissions have doubled because most of us like cheap personal transport, both gasoline powered cars and air travel; like eating high on the food chain, even to the detriment of our health; like the status token of the front lawn and not having to hear our neighbors' music.

A Green New Deal focused on social justice and positive incentives will be as effective as the lavish subsidies for rooftop solar in Germany: emissions have hardly dropped since 2000. A Green New Deal (as I've seen described) might conceivably drive enabling infrastructure like nationwide HVDC transmission and electric rail, but those aren't social justice or jobs programs. To change individual behavior and achieve required emissions reductions, unnecessary fossil-powered travel or eating Western diets will have to hurt.

I favor any flavor of Green New Deal, but recognize that any political palatable to enough Democrats will be a largely symbolic gesture. Symbols are important, if only to offer psychological protection against despair, but I'll continue supporting the crushingly high carbon taxes which are the only way enough action will take place, at all levels of the economy from individual to utility, and for all kinds of emissions reductions from conservation to efficiency to replacement with renewables.

contains pieces the size of a child's esophagus (Sanpaku), Friday, 8 March 2019 23:41 (seven months ago) link

uh I'm not giving up negronis

Let's have sensible centrist armageddon (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 8 March 2019 23:43 (seven months ago) link

orange peels, that's recycling

j., Friday, 8 March 2019 23:46 (seven months ago) link

Enjoying flying for another five years, its what I say.

Meantime:

pic.twitter.com/D1U7GQdnDg

— /var/tmp/steckel (@steckel) March 9, 2019

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 9 March 2019 13:30 (seven months ago) link

The notion that Obama's policies were basically the same as Trump but only more polished is laughable bullshit. There's plenty to criticize with Obama. However, if your goal is a more keynesian mixed economy or anything to the left of that, the list of complaints with Trump is of clearly of another magnitude.

Van Horn Street, Sunday, 10 March 2019 00:29 (seven months ago) link

She's claiming there's common policy ground between them and cautioning against varnishing the past, which is healthy imho

Simon H., Sunday, 10 March 2019 01:10 (seven months ago) link

xp You're really bad at reading.

Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Sunday, 10 March 2019 02:11 (seven months ago) link

I think one can disagree without insulting reading skills.

Van Horn Street, Sunday, 10 March 2019 02:36 (seven months ago) link

"Obama's policies were basically the same as Trump but only more polished" is dubious as a summary of what Omar actually said.

|Restore| |Restart| |Quit| (Doctor Casino), Sunday, 10 March 2019 02:43 (seven months ago) link

'perpetuating the status quo' 'fundamentally the same framework' 'his policies are bad but many of his predecessors policies also had really bad policies'

This is straight 'centrists and GOP are too similar' argument, which is a legitimate argument, especially for anyone who's political goal is building new voice left of center. It is just not an argument I agree with wrt Obama's presidency.

Van Horn Street, Sunday, 10 March 2019 02:56 (seven months ago) link

xxp - no, seriously, it's not a disagreement, you just seem really bad at reading comprehension.

Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Sunday, 10 March 2019 03:32 (seven months ago) link

Well explain then.

Van Horn Street, Sunday, 10 March 2019 04:38 (seven months ago) link

You're either too dumb to understand Omar's words or you're trolling with a bad faith reading of them. I prefer to think the best of people, so I assume you're just kind of dumb.

Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Sunday, 10 March 2019 04:47 (seven months ago) link

Anyway thanks Simon.

Van Horn Street, Sunday, 10 March 2019 05:20 (seven months ago) link

VHS you're putting words in her mouth. She said "many of the people who came before him also had really bad policies." You have rewritten this as either "Obama's policies were basically the same as Trump's" or as "centrists and GOP are too similar," both of which are substantive tweaks to what she said, filling in an argument she COULD have been leading to, but was not unambiguously making.

I could just as easily say that in context, and common-sensically, the argument she was actually leading to was: "Trump's immigration and drone-war policy are awful, but focusing on this one guy misses that Obama got away with horrible (if in some ways different) shit in both areas, and so if we just focus on the one bad guy we're not going to arrive at a more moral policy." It doesn't require a "basically the same" construction, which imho is being flung around the Internet now as essentially a straw-quote: "she said they're basically the same, which is obviously wrong, therefore she'd a tendentious dummy." Why not just say "I don't brook any comparison of Obama and Trump's immigration and drone policies, in my view the two are so fundamentally different as to make this absurd," and then try to defend that position?

|Restore| |Restart| |Quit| (Doctor Casino), Monday, 11 March 2019 18:51 (seven months ago) link

She horrified centrists on morning shows today with her remarks about FDR and racism, but, uh, the skewing of the New Deal toward Southern Democrats who needed the federal beneficence but not liberty for the black men whose votes and civil liberties they'd quashed is standard history at this point.

Let's have sensible centrist armageddon (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 11 March 2019 18:56 (seven months ago) link

she seemed kinda skittish about the DSA endorsement so I figured she'd be backpedaling on this sort of talk. but I guess not so much

"Capitalism is an ideology of capital — the most important thing is the concentration of capital and to seek and maximize profit," she said during an interview at the South by Southwest conference in Austin, Texas, according to Bloomberg News.

"To me, capitalism is irredeemable," she added, arguing that capitalism's goals come at a cost to people and the environment, Bloomberg reported.

The congresswoman, who has described herself as a democratic socialist, added during her interview that "we should be scared."

"Just as there’s all this fearmongering that government is going to take over every corporation and government is going to take over every business or every form of production, we should be scared right now because corporations have taken over our government," she said.

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/433394-ocasio-cortez-capitalism-is-irredeemable

Simon H., Monday, 11 March 2019 19:09 (seven months ago) link

oh YES

Ok great, now talk about Reagan and:
- Iran-Contra +
- The gutting of our mental health system +
- The explosion of homelessness under his watch +
- The crack epidemic

Maybe instead of insinuating I’ve never read a book, be open to the idea that we’ve read different ones. https://t.co/aP96oCCBwm

— Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (@AOC) March 11, 2019

Let's have sensible centrist armageddon (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 11 March 2019 19:22 (seven months ago) link

Shd have led w HIV stuff bc the second tweet is also v dope

YouTube_-_funy_cats.flv (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Monday, 11 March 2019 19:31 (seven months ago) link

All else aside, how on earth can 'never read a book on ____/never read a book full stop' possibly function as a criticism of a politician at this point in time, how.

Goody Rickels on the Dime (Old Lunch), Monday, 11 March 2019 19:31 (seven months ago) link

She needs to appear on a Killer Mike track stat

fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Monday, 11 March 2019 19:48 (seven months ago) link

i am catching that AOC fever

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Monday, 11 March 2019 20:00 (seven months ago) link

“"To me, capitalism is irredeemable," she added, arguing that capitalism's goals come at a cost to people and the environment, Bloomberg reported.”

Should I read neo-liberalism or libertarianism instead of capitalism? Because these nordic model nations still rely heavily on free market economics to achieve their desired progress.

Van Horn Street, Monday, 11 March 2019 21:48 (seven months ago) link

and ethnically homogenous populations

moose; squirrel (silby), Monday, 11 March 2019 21:49 (seven months ago) link

and they are also fucking up the environment

you know who deserves sitewide mod privileges? (m bison), Monday, 11 March 2019 21:49 (seven months ago) link

tbf, she started that by saying "Capitalism is an ideology of capital — the most important thing is the concentration of capital and to seek and maximize profit." So it could be that she's saying is irredeemable is *that*. Back the capitalism-ism vs. capitalism discussion we were just having on one of these threads... capitalism as gospel/ideology definition, not as economic definition. I think you could think that ideology is irredeemable, and (possibly) still think that markets might be valid mechanisms for various things. But she might be taking a more radical stance than that.

|Restore| |Restart| |Quit| (Doctor Casino), Monday, 11 March 2019 22:26 (seven months ago) link

Norway I get. Sweden and Denmark too?

xpost

lukas, Monday, 11 March 2019 22:34 (seven months ago) link

Gotcha, and I agree with her if she is talking about the gospel of the invisible hand and profit.

Van Horn Street, Monday, 11 March 2019 22:36 (seven months ago) link

That was what I took from it.

Simon H., Monday, 11 March 2019 22:37 (seven months ago) link

all economically advanced countries are economically advanced bc of fucking the environment up. swe and den just do it less than most.

xxp

you know who deserves sitewide mod privileges? (m bison), Monday, 11 March 2019 22:38 (seven months ago) link

and most developing/poor countries are poor despite of fucking up the environment, too :)

flopson, Tuesday, 12 March 2019 01:48 (seven months ago) link

True. It’s been GOP vs. the people of the United States for almost my entire life https://t.co/4veHq1i5hh

— Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (@AOC) March 12, 2019

So weird and refreshing to have a Democrat congressperson who actually doesn’t give a shit what the other party thinks of her

frogbs, Tuesday, 12 March 2019 02:19 (seven months ago) link

and most developing/poor countries are poor despite of fucking up the environment, too :)

― flopson, Monday, March 11, 2019 8:48 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

if we're talking GHG emissions per cap this is mostly not true

you know who deserves sitewide mod privileges? (m bison), Tuesday, 12 March 2019 03:02 (seven months ago) link

if we're talking GHG emissions per cap this is mostly not true

Also not true if we're talking about historical gross GHG emissions.

Gaseous Clay (Leee), Tuesday, 12 March 2019 17:44 (seven months ago) link

Ilhan Omar on the difference between Obama & Trump: "One is human, the other is not"

starting to think she may actually be better than AOC

frogbs, Tuesday, 12 March 2019 17:49 (seven months ago) link

why are we still ranking them?

why is this still a thread?

why do i have it bookmarked?

|Restore| |Restart| |Quit| (Doctor Casino), Tuesday, 12 March 2019 17:53 (seven months ago) link

Eh, attempts at expelling awfulness from the human race are kind of annoying. Trump is one of us and a lot of us – most of us – are shit.

pomenitul, Tuesday, 12 March 2019 17:54 (seven months ago) link

I accidentally bookmark threads all the time somehow

brimstead, Tuesday, 12 March 2019 17:54 (seven months ago) link

Saw this on Kottke:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU-SE5eNt04

We should not be haunted by the specter of being automated out of work. We should not feel nervous about the toll booth collector not having to collect tolls anymore. We should be excited by that. But the reason we’re not excited by it is because we live in a society where if you don’t have a job, you are left to die. And that is, at its core, our problem.

Then she went on to say:

We should be excited about automation, because what it could potentially mean is more time educating ourselves, more time creating art, more time investing in and investigating the sciences, more time focused on invention, more time going to space, more time enjoying the world that we live in. Because not all creativity needs to be bonded by wage.

<3

DJI, Tuesday, 12 March 2019 17:56 (seven months ago) link

^^^ xs a 1000. I don't work a traditional wage/salary job all the time (by choice). Most jobs are meaningless, playacting wastes of time and should be automated or streamlined.

Yerac, Tuesday, 12 March 2019 18:02 (seven months ago) link

Seems like common sense to me, but the sheer amount of sadomasochists who disagree will fuck it all up for the rest of us.

pomenitul, Tuesday, 12 March 2019 18:05 (seven months ago) link

It's all the people who don't know how to handle free time that isn't dictated out to them.

Yerac, Tuesday, 12 March 2019 18:09 (seven months ago) link

It's fucking Puritanism!

PPL+AI=NS (imago), Tuesday, 12 March 2019 18:10 (seven months ago) link

slash people whose entire concept of human worthiness it tied up in work for work's sake xp

Simon H., Tuesday, 12 March 2019 18:11 (seven months ago) link

If we had a universal income I would be more than happy to never take another nice job away from a mediocre white man ever again.

Yerac, Tuesday, 12 March 2019 18:13 (seven months ago) link

what if trump was one of us

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Tuesday, 12 March 2019 18:31 (seven months ago) link

why are we still ranking them?

look who didn't get invited to a Fantasy Congress league this year

frogbs, Tuesday, 12 March 2019 18:36 (seven months ago) link

people whose entire concept of human worthiness it tied up in work for work's sake yachts and gold plated toilets.

While My Guitar Gently Wheedly-Wheedly-Wheedly-Weeps (Dan Peterson), Tuesday, 12 March 2019 18:48 (seven months ago) link

I used to work with too many 70-80 year old men who would. not. retire. They would have to eventually be tricked/forced out and given sunset agreements so they could still do some client meetings and get paid but at least they freed up office space. They literally did not want to leave.

Yerac, Tuesday, 12 March 2019 18:52 (seven months ago) link

and those bitches had so much support staff because they didn't know how to use computers or how to call people themselves.

Yerac, Tuesday, 12 March 2019 18:54 (seven months ago) link

I can sympathize with feeling strong enough to want to work as opposed to the seventy-one-year-old bag man at Publix who can't live on his Social Security check, but the imaginations of these men are limited to driving their wives to the beauty parlor. That's why my dad won't retire: he won't sit at home yet he's too old for manual labor.

Let's have sensible centrist armageddon (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 12 March 2019 18:55 (seven months ago) link

^^^These were rich guys who only knew how to make money. That is all they were interested in, that is who they were.

Yerac, Tuesday, 12 March 2019 18:58 (seven months ago) link

There were some super-elderly partners who still occasionally came to the office at my last job, one of whom I suspected very strongly had to be literally spoon-fed by his assistant.

Goody Rickels on the Dime (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 12 March 2019 18:59 (seven months ago) link

But it's the idea again that you are only worth something if you go to a specific place, during specific hours and are paid a specific amount for it. It's so boring.

Yerac, Tuesday, 12 March 2019 19:00 (seven months ago) link

that SXSW talk is good listening

the bits DJI quoted starts from a guy's question at 55:15. best part of that answer imo:

"... Our technological advancement as a society has outpaced our system for handling finite resources. Because now we are approaching infinite resources. And how do - - - capitalism is based on scarcity, and what happens when there is enough for everyone to eat? What happens when there is enough for everyone to be clothed? Then you have to make scarcity artificial(ly). And that is what has happened. We have created artificial scarcity and that is why we are driven to work eighty hours a week when we are being our most productive at any point in American history. And so we... you know, we should be working the least amount we've ever worked... if we were actually paid based on how much wealth we're producing. But we're not, we're paid on how little we're desperate enough to accept, and then the rest is skimmed off and given to a billionaire."

|Restore| |Restart| |Quit| (Doctor Casino), Tuesday, 12 March 2019 19:08 (seven months ago) link

wonder if she read Inventing the Future

moose; squirrel (silby), Tuesday, 12 March 2019 19:09 (seven months ago) link

Around 2009ish I was working at a bank that had hours like 8am-6pm and I put together a whole alternative schedule where I could do my same job but just in an abbreviated timeframe ( I think it was ~32 hrs/wk) and I was happy to take a salary cut and to do it on a trial basis to make sure I could cover all the work. It totally got denied because it would "look bad" to my teammates and because I wasn't going to use my spare time doing something work-related/enrichment, like going to law school or getting an MBA. It was so ridiculous (I quit). I forgot about it until my friend, who I worked with there, brought it up when I was consulting at her firm this past fall. Because that firm and so many other firms are all about "agile working" now.

Yerac, Tuesday, 12 March 2019 19:10 (seven months ago) link

they have to be. it's like work from home, once a few companies start doing it, everyone's going to have to either start or have trouble attracting top-rate talent

frogbs, Tuesday, 12 March 2019 19:11 (seven months ago) link

Harry Enten still dumb as a wooden pundit: https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/16/politics/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-polls-like-trump-poll-of-the-week/index.html

(The fact that AOC is not running for national office and therefore has no reason to give a shit how she's polling nationally does not occur to him until paragraph 11:

It could be the case that Ocasio-Cortez doesn't and perhaps shouldn't care that her ratings have gone south. She clearly has a core group of supporters and is able to drive the national press conversation. For her own electoral sake, the group of voters who will decide her fate are in a slice of the Bronx and Queens' sections of New York City.

There's also nothing unique about nationally known politicians being unpopular with the general electorate. As I have noted on Twitter, almost every single candidate running for president in 2020 is more disliked than liked among all voters.

Still...

get ready for lots more tedious silliness of this kind in the months and years to come

|Restore| |Restart| |Quit| (Doctor Casino), Saturday, 16 March 2019 16:07 (seven months ago) link

I think we are entering an era where every single politician with a national rep is going to have either essentially 0% approval from Dems and some measurable amount of disapproval among their fellow Republicans, or vice versa, which is to say that everybody's going to have negative approval ratings overall.

Guayaquil (eephus!), Saturday, 16 March 2019 16:15 (seven months ago) link

I have never been polled about a candidate in my life.

Yerac, Saturday, 16 March 2019 16:52 (seven months ago) link

Or any politician.

Yerac, Saturday, 16 March 2019 16:52 (seven months ago) link

Me neither. I’ve never been polled about anything. I guess maybe it’s because I don’t answer calls from numbers I don’t recognize

but i'm there are fuckups (Karl Malone), Saturday, 16 March 2019 18:25 (seven months ago) link

Try moving to a swing state.

Guayaquil (eephus!), Saturday, 16 March 2019 18:44 (seven months ago) link

maybe eventually enough state legislatures will pass the national popular vote interstate compact and everyone's vote will actually count again

but i'm there are fuckups (Karl Malone), Saturday, 16 March 2019 18:47 (seven months ago) link

I was polled and I voted for AOC over Joseph Crowley.

dan selzer, Saturday, 16 March 2019 19:20 (seven months ago) link

Socialists in Congress expose how big capitalists rip off US taxpayers. Ex: tax-money helps pay for drug research but none of the "private" profits made on those drugs flow to the public that invested. So taxpayers subsidize drug company "private" profits.https://t.co/lClcYvPBYx

— Richard D. Wolff (@profwolff) March 19, 2019

Simon H., Tuesday, 19 March 2019 17:06 (seven months ago) link

not trying to defending big pharma here, that's for fucking sure, but the counterargument to that line of thinking is that the benefit to taxpayers comes in the form of greater availability of drugs, improved effectiveness of drugs, etc. obviously there are a ton of issues with that (for example, miracle drugs like oxycontin), but it's not like taxpayers funded a private yacht company and never see any changes in their lives - it's medical research that directly affects the drugs that become available.

similar areas where taxpayers are providing the funding for R&D and don't see "direct" returns: NASA, DARPA.

the question is whether the pharmaceutical research that's being funded by taxpayers would still take place if it was entirely funded by the pharmaceutical industry. i have no idea about that.

again, not saying that big pharma doesn't totally abuse the system and that maybe (like they allude to in the clip) it would be possible for them to funnel some of their ludicrously high profits back to the government. but i don't think it's scandalous or unusual that drug research is partly funded by taxpayers, or that taxpayers don't see a "direct" return

but i'm there are fuckups (Karl Malone), Tuesday, 19 March 2019 17:37 (seven months ago) link

could part of the issue be *what* they research? the old point abt how they're super focused on things like the latest viagra improvement, or developing specialized patents for a nasal spray so that they can keep a dirt-cheap migraine drug at $3,000 a dose or w/e. but i dunno how much if any of that stuff comes from public dollars, or is possible because public dollars are subsidizing the r&d operation as a whole....

|Restore| |Restart| |Quit| (Doctor Casino), Tuesday, 19 March 2019 17:48 (seven months ago) link

AOC now officially too dumb AND too smart:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ocasio-cortez-trump-nematode

Evans on Hammond (evol j), Friday, 22 March 2019 19:21 (six months ago) link

Schrödinger's GOP punching bag.

pomenitul, Friday, 22 March 2019 19:28 (six months ago) link

nematode is not a bad burn really

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Friday, 22 March 2019 19:36 (six months ago) link

very millennial, I like it

k3vin k., Saturday, 23 March 2019 03:33 (six months ago) link

It's ... interesting ... that only 23% of Republicans haven't heard enough about @AOC to form an opinion, compared to a sizable 44% of Democrats https://t.co/PIoWFDjUiK pic.twitter.com/ybf0YhykSa

— Brett LoGiurato (@BrettLoGiurato) March 28, 2019

Karl Malone, Friday, 29 March 2019 01:01 (six months ago) link

Hmmmm curious

Simon H., Friday, 29 March 2019 01:02 (six months ago) link

as usual, AOC had a good rejoinder to that, but come on, this thread can't be ALL @AOC tweets

Karl Malone, Friday, 29 March 2019 01:07 (six months ago) link

Because of her I kind of want to get my birth chart read. My spouse would totally disown me though.

AOC is so great. She is my benchmark.

Yerac, Friday, 29 March 2019 01:11 (six months ago) link

your birth chart read?

k3vin k., Friday, 29 March 2019 02:29 (six months ago) link

well this is def the right thread for it

Mordy, Friday, 29 March 2019 04:34 (six months ago) link

lol @ the update there

difficult listening hour, Friday, 29 March 2019 04:47 (six months ago) link

otm

⅋ (crüt), Friday, 29 March 2019 04:51 (six months ago) link

in my opinion, astrology is bad

⅋ (crüt), Friday, 29 March 2019 04:51 (six months ago) link

in my opinion, anyone who takes astrology even 1% seriously should have to live on an island with nothing but astrologers

steven, soda jerk (sic), Friday, 29 March 2019 04:56 (six months ago) link

Aleatoric oracles are fun and cool, no problem.

People being super into astrology makes me feel very sad

moose; squirrel (silby), Friday, 29 March 2019 04:58 (six months ago) link

it's weird, i feel like astrology was a joke for like years and years and now i see that shit all over the place

i guess maybe it's a 70s thing, millennials love their unicorns too

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, 29 March 2019 04:59 (six months ago) link

My spouse is an astronomer. He even gets prickly when people talk about biodynamic wine (using astrology and moon phases for growing/harvesting grapes).

I should totally tell him he needs to figure out how to do my chart.

Yerac, Friday, 29 March 2019 10:48 (six months ago) link

idk I've dealt with astrology quacks my whole life -- there was no hiatus

recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 29 March 2019 11:12 (six months ago) link

i think like 70 percent of my friends all actively engage with and keep up with their astrology? they also know it’s all bullshit. sometimes i think it’s fun

jolene club remix (BradNelson), Friday, 29 March 2019 12:20 (six months ago) link

yeah it's fun and relatively harmless, or more harmless than instead believing the descendants of Ishmael will have a home at the Temple Mount or whatever

d'ILM for Murder (Hadrian VIII), Friday, 29 March 2019 12:43 (six months ago) link

I grew up around Christians w/ this absurd snobbery about astrology and it's like, yeah mom, well the tide *really* is out and you *really* are on your period, so lets's dial it down a little

d'ILM for Murder (Hadrian VIII), Friday, 29 March 2019 12:47 (six months ago) link

I may have mentioned it before but my mother’s family joined the JWs in the 1950s to get access to childcare during a family crisis and once my grandfather decided it was bad to be affiliated with them, actually became an astrologer to freak them into leaving the family alone.

suzy, Friday, 29 March 2019 12:52 (six months ago) link

talking about astrology is more a social faux pas--especially because people who do it will not stop even if you give them a ton of signals that you don't fucking care. It's like people going on about their RPGs.

We were never Breeting Borting (President Keyes), Friday, 29 March 2019 12:53 (six months ago) link

It's ... interesting ... that only 23% of Republicans haven't heard enough about @AOC to form an opinion, compared to a sizable 44% of Democrats https://t.co/PIoWFDjUiK pic.twitter.com/ybf0YhykSa
— Brett LoGiurato (@BrettLoGiurato) March 28, 2019
― Karl Malone, Thursday, March 28, 2019 9:01 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I'm fairly certain if you drilled down that Republican subset to "Republicans who watch Fox" that 23% would almost completely disappear. I genuinely think most Fox viewers are already convinced she's the second most powerful politician in this country aside from Trump.

Evans on Hammond (evol j), Friday, 29 March 2019 12:55 (six months ago) link

Good.

zama roma ding dong (Eric H.), Friday, 29 March 2019 13:04 (six months ago) link

The most fervent believers in astrology in my purview tend to be gay men looking for supernatural forces outside traditional churches -- a view with which I sympathize and repulses me too.

recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 29 March 2019 13:12 (six months ago) link

I have no opinion on the accuracy of this story, just for the hell of it

Yeah, this is the Post, but @aoc really needs to tend to constituent services if she wants to be re-elected. I admire her tremendously and want her to stick around, but this is not the way to go about it. https://t.co/d7b4uKcewW

— Doug Henwood (@DougHenwood) March 31, 2019

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Monday, 1 April 2019 16:54 (six months ago) link

She definitely should not be ignoring constituents, but this -- “I thought AOC would be our savior, but that’s not the case,” complained Roxanne Delgado -- was their first problem.

Plinka Trinka Banga Tink (Eliza D.), Monday, 1 April 2019 17:04 (six months ago) link

I thought if I voted for AOC that I could lie immobile in the street and that all my wildest dreams would come true. Boy, was I ever wrong about her.

A man of surgery, to remove the metal pellets from my flesh (Old Lunch), Monday, 1 April 2019 17:09 (six months ago) link

This NY Post writer seems to be assigned to investigating everything Ocasio-Cortez.

I can imagine this is what happens when you win the lottery. Distant relatives and old classmates all have a ten minute pitch and get mad when you don't have the time to entertain every single one right away.

Yerac, Monday, 1 April 2019 17:10 (six months ago) link

"I could lie immobile in the street and that all my wildest dreams would come true [just four months later]"

d'ILM for Murder (Hadrian VIII), Monday, 1 April 2019 17:12 (six months ago) link

I definitely believe that her staff probably has trouble keeping up with all the calls and emails coming in.
The full voicemail thing seems pretty common for lawmakers.

We were never Breeting Borting (President Keyes), Monday, 1 April 2019 17:15 (six months ago) link

(for the record her official house site has a casework intake form just like every other representative's)

moose; squirrel (silby), Monday, 1 April 2019 17:16 (six months ago) link

I was just looking at Roxanne Delgado's twitter. She was already mad at AOC in mid Feb for not having her constituent office in the Bronx already opened and for being spotted shopping at Whole Foods.

Yerac, Monday, 1 April 2019 17:16 (six months ago) link

lol as if pushing for the GND ISN'T about helping people in the Bronx, where they have the highest child asthma rates in the country and ANY improvement to the environment, emissions controls, improved/safe/affordable housing, access to health services, etc would immediately and directly help them.

There's more Italy than necessary. (in orbit), Monday, 1 April 2019 17:18 (six months ago) link

Most of "asks" in the article are things the people can very well do themselves. They just want the Ocasio-Cortez touch thinking it will be made easier.

Yerac, Monday, 1 April 2019 17:21 (six months ago) link

I hate how district 14 is divided up. It's completely undoable for public transportation.

Yerac, Monday, 1 April 2019 17:26 (six months ago) link

To sigh about legislators and presidents failing to live up to the expectations of their voters is a worn, often effective GOP tactic because "Morning" Joe types repeat it.

recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 1 April 2019 17:31 (six months ago) link

yeah, like DH said it's the Post. but she shd be locally attentive if there's room to improve.

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Monday, 1 April 2019 17:37 (six months ago) link

there is always room to improve in the first three months of doing any job. people love to attack this woman :(

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Monday, 1 April 2019 17:41 (six months ago) link

btw: http://www.ifccenter.com/films/knock-down-the-house-pnf/

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Monday, 1 April 2019 18:24 (six months ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6akmMYGHI3w

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Monday, 1 April 2019 18:25 (six months ago) link

i would view with skepticism any article in the NYC tabloids that finds a handful of locals dissatisfied with any person, policy or program - - - - i mean it is really not hard to find someone dissatisfied with something, it's inherently anecdotal and better for building hit pieces and retweetable "gotcha" memes than for understanding the politics of a district.

|Restore| |Restart| |Quit| (Doctor Casino), Monday, 1 April 2019 18:37 (six months ago) link

This story feels like cranky bullshit because a) it's the New York Post, and b) there was a story recently that because Ocasio-Cortez doesn't have to spend time calling rich assholes for cash, she's able to spend that much more time responding to her constituents.

grawlix (unperson), Monday, 1 April 2019 19:27 (six months ago) link

literally no need to post this story

gotta hear both sides i guess

jolene club remix (BradNelson), Monday, 1 April 2019 19:38 (six months ago) link

the veracity of this story is at the very least in question so i daily to see the utility in debating AOC's merits on this point based on this

( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Monday, 1 April 2019 19:39 (six months ago) link

fail not daily god damn it

( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Monday, 1 April 2019 19:40 (six months ago) link

xxpost Yes, important to hear both the words from the mouth and the farts from the butt. Fair and balanced.

A man of surgery, to remove the metal pellets from my flesh (Old Lunch), Monday, 1 April 2019 19:40 (six months ago) link

no, with the POst the farts and words come from the same place

Buttigieg comes right from the source (Neanderthal), Monday, 1 April 2019 22:15 (six months ago) link

you got it, Brad (Superman III was a shameful waste of R Pryor's talents)

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Monday, 1 April 2019 22:33 (six months ago) link

eh?

recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 1 April 2019 22:34 (six months ago) link

both sides now

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Monday, 1 April 2019 22:36 (six months ago) link

Blue Collar is the only movie Pryor is in that isnt bad

( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Monday, 1 April 2019 22:36 (six months ago) link

you heard him, AOC is entirely to blame for SIII

Buttigieg comes right from the source (Neanderthal), Monday, 1 April 2019 22:36 (six months ago) link

Oh yeah also the Bingo Long Traveling All-Stars & Motor Kings is good too.

AOC sabotaged Pryor's movie career imo

( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Monday, 1 April 2019 22:39 (six months ago) link

you heard him, AOC is entirely to blame for SIII

This is meant to be a thread about her flaws.

A man of surgery, to remove the metal pellets from my flesh (Old Lunch), Monday, 1 April 2019 22:40 (six months ago) link

someone photoshop AOC

recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 1 April 2019 22:44 (six months ago) link

As Superman.

LEOPLOD BLOOMPS (Leee), Monday, 1 April 2019 23:02 (six months ago) link

the folds in Pryor's clothes are mesmerizing

pippin drives a lambo through the gates of isengard (Sparkle Motion), Monday, 1 April 2019 23:06 (six months ago) link

otm!

Lil' Brexit (Tracer Hand), Monday, 1 April 2019 23:11 (six months ago) link

This scene terrified me in third grade:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dye66uJlLRc

recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 1 April 2019 23:12 (six months ago) link

Me too

Buttigieg comes right from the source (Neanderthal), Monday, 1 April 2019 23:21 (six months ago) link

i think i actually had nightmares about that scene when i was a id

thanks morbs for derailing this thread into a discussion of the best superman movie

jolene club remix (BradNelson), Monday, 1 April 2019 23:30 (six months ago) link

kid* lol

jolene club remix (BradNelson), Monday, 1 April 2019 23:30 (six months ago) link

nah this is the best Superman movie

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pu_eNecYFlA

recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 1 April 2019 23:39 (six months ago) link

it takes a gaggle of shitposters to derail, sweetz

anyway there seem to be a core of fusty Dems who will try to unseat AOC, so she should give em not the flimsiest pretext

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 2 April 2019 00:12 (six months ago) link

it takes a gaggle of shitposters to derail, sweetz

Hilary's cowardice was never to have used this title for a campaign memoir

recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 2 April 2019 00:15 (six months ago) link

Grace!
How low can you go?

Buttigieg comes right from the source (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 2 April 2019 00:31 (six months ago) link

nice to see

Related: Chelsea Manning has been trapped in solitary confinement for refusing to answer questions before a Grand Jury.

Solitary confinement is torture.

Chelsea is being tortured for whistleblowing, she should be released on bail, and we should ban extended solitary in the US. https://t.co/95ef4xYt3k

— Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (@AOC) April 2, 2019

Simon H., Tuesday, 2 April 2019 18:31 (six months ago) link

counterpoint: Martin Shkreli is also in there

frogbs, Tuesday, 2 April 2019 18:50 (six months ago) link

So abolish solitary confinement and let those two share a cell.

grawlix (unperson), Tuesday, 2 April 2019 19:00 (six months ago) link

what the fuck

Simon H., Tuesday, 2 April 2019 19:00 (six months ago) link

we can throw unperson into a Midnight Express roleplay

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 2 April 2019 19:09 (six months ago) link

So abolish solitary confinement and let those two share a cell.

― grawlix (unperson), Tuesday, April 2, 2019 12:00 PM (ten minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

haven't fp'd in a while. good to be back in the saddle

( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Tuesday, 2 April 2019 19:10 (six months ago) link

a few days ago I listened to that town hall AOC did with Chris Hayes and when she said the Republicans passed a constitutional amendment to stop FDR from being reelected I was like, "I hope nobody heard that."

We were never Breeting Borting (President Keyes), Tuesday, 2 April 2019 19:13 (six months ago) link

Conservatives did.

a large tuna called “Justice” (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 2 April 2019 19:24 (six months ago) link

xp she was right.

the amendment that capped presidents at two terms was proposed while FDR was in his second term but not passed until after he died. so it didn't stop him. but that was the intention.

Trϵϵship, Tuesday, 2 April 2019 19:37 (six months ago) link

i thought you guys were supposed to be smart.

Trϵϵship, Tuesday, 2 April 2019 19:39 (six months ago) link

dude the Republicans were in the minority in 1944. They passed the amendment in 1947 after winning majorities in house and senate.

We were never Breeting Borting (President Keyes), Tuesday, 2 April 2019 19:47 (six months ago) link

yes, GOP regained Congress for the first time since the Hoover years. Truman was exempt from the amendment.

recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 2 April 2019 19:49 (six months ago) link

a few days ago I listened to that town hall AOC did with Chris Hayes and when she said the Republicans passed a constitutional amendment to stop FDR from being reelected I was like, "I hope nobody heard that."

the amendment that capped presidents at two terms was proposed while FDR was in his second term but not passed until after he died. so it didn't stop him. but that was the intention.

She misspoke. I have no doubt that she knows when FDR died and when the amendment was passed, just like I know 100% that Barack Obama doesn't think there really is 54 states.

But like Neil Armstrong forgetting the difference between "man" and "mankind," she misspoke. It's dumb of the right-wingers to run off with it, but let's not pretend that what she literally said was fact.

pplains, Tuesday, 2 April 2019 19:49 (six months ago) link

xxp it also specifically exempted the sitting president at the time of proposal or passage and applied only to future presidents. So she was right for the wrong reasons -- it was definitely a reaction to Roosevelt's third and fourth terms, but would not have stopped him from having them because he would have been grandfathered in.

Plinka Trinka Banga Tink (Eliza D.), Tuesday, 2 April 2019 19:51 (six months ago) link

xp. barack obama knew there were 54 muslim majority states Al-ḥamdu lil-lāh

( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Tuesday, 2 April 2019 19:53 (six months ago) link

(irony)

( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Tuesday, 2 April 2019 19:53 (six months ago) link

I once ordered the fisherman's special at Hardees and was shocked that I did not get a chicken sandwich. I have no clue what I was thinking.

Yerac, Tuesday, 2 April 2019 19:54 (six months ago) link

Sir, this is an AOC thread.

We were never Breeting Borting (President Keyes), Tuesday, 2 April 2019 19:54 (six months ago) link

Madam.

Yerac, Tuesday, 2 April 2019 19:56 (six months ago) link

People aren’t walking wikipedias. The general point is that republicans moved to impose term limits as a reaction to FDR’s popularity

Trϵϵship, Tuesday, 2 April 2019 19:56 (six months ago) link

Trump doesn’t know what country his father was born in

Trϵϵship, Tuesday, 2 April 2019 19:56 (six months ago) link

The thing is, like most normal people, she accepts corrections or amends her statements. She doesn't double down and try to rewrite history.

Yerac, Tuesday, 2 April 2019 19:57 (six months ago) link

except this time

We were never Breeting Borting (President Keyes), Tuesday, 2 April 2019 19:58 (six months ago) link

I wasn’t there honestly

Trϵϵship, Tuesday, 2 April 2019 19:59 (six months ago) link

Maybe fdr served just two terms

Trϵϵship, Tuesday, 2 April 2019 20:00 (six months ago) link

did she double down? Is this the new thing people want to torch her with?

Yerac, Tuesday, 2 April 2019 20:00 (six months ago) link

can AOC serve four term? If so, THEN she can talk.

recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 2 April 2019 20:01 (six months ago) link

I didn't even notice what the issue was with what she said.

Yerac, Tuesday, 2 April 2019 20:02 (six months ago) link

yes, she doubled down

Hey Rep. Cheney,

I see from your dead people comment that you get your news from Facebook memes, but the National Constitution Center + Newsweek are just two of many places where you can clarify your misunderstanding of the history of the 22nd Amendment: https://t.co/Je6mHFJ687 https://t.co/np1XtgLpm1

— Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (@AOC) April 1, 2019

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 2 April 2019 20:02 (six months ago) link

She said they passed an amendment in 1944 when really they proposed it in 1944 and passed it in 1947.

Trϵϵship, Tuesday, 2 April 2019 20:03 (six months ago) link

xp

Trϵϵship, Tuesday, 2 April 2019 20:03 (six months ago) link

It’s an incredibly dumb controversy

Trϵϵship, Tuesday, 2 April 2019 20:04 (six months ago) link

well passing an Amendment in 1947 to stop FDR from being re-elected shows that they really hated that dude

We were never Breeting Borting (President Keyes), Tuesday, 2 April 2019 20:05 (six months ago) link

she got it wrong, it's an understandable mistake, the 22nd was clearly targeted at FDR and his legacy, but insisting that she actually got it right based on a strained reading of history is not a great strategy

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 2 April 2019 20:06 (six months ago) link

People believed in ghosts then

Trϵϵship, Tuesday, 2 April 2019 20:06 (six months ago) link

no it was better back then. Great in fact.

We were never Breeting Borting (President Keyes), Tuesday, 2 April 2019 20:07 (six months ago) link

just wait until Professor Ocasio-Cortez sees my scathing course evaluation for her ConLaw class.

Evans on Hammond (evol j), Tuesday, 2 April 2019 20:12 (six months ago) link

Yeah, I don't think that is doubling down. She's not wrong, her selection of words relative to the timing of how it played out is not great as shown in that newsweek article.

Yerac, Tuesday, 2 April 2019 20:12 (six months ago) link

what an incredibly silly thing to devote any number of ilx posts to

|Restore| |Restart| |Quit| (Doctor Casino), Tuesday, 2 April 2019 23:04 (six months ago) link

vmic though

LEOPLOD BLOOMPS (Leee), Tuesday, 2 April 2019 23:08 (six months ago) link

Also ILE board description.

LEOPLOD BLOOMPS (Leee), Tuesday, 2 April 2019 23:08 (six months ago) link

Captain Kirk let Edith Keeler live, and FDR was overthrown by the Germans in 1943, I recall

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 2 April 2019 23:35 (six months ago) link

xpost, yeah i feel stupid for defending something that doesn't need defending.

Yerac, Tuesday, 2 April 2019 23:46 (six months ago) link

I just made the mistake of looking at my dad's fb to see if he has anything new public (because I haven't spoken to him in over 2 years and am not fb friends). Holy crap are there a lot of messy memes about AOC being stupid. Obsessed. (this fascination with Maxine Waters and Pelosi too).

Yerac, Wednesday, 3 April 2019 13:37 (six months ago) link

I have to admit that I was taught that the Presidency is term-limited because it killed FDR and Congress didn’t want that to happen again.

LEOPLOD BLOOMPS (Leee), Wednesday, 3 April 2019 16:15 (six months ago) link

if FDR had run for a fifth term, it might've cured his polio.

recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 3 April 2019 16:17 (six months ago) link

Winning a fifth term unlocks a new level in Democracy

We were never Breeting Borting (President Keyes), Wednesday, 3 April 2019 16:28 (six months ago) link

Paul Ryan: AOC Wasn’t Too Interested in His Advice; Didn’t Listen ‘To a Thing I Said’ https://t.co/qtdC1lN013 pic.twitter.com/PUOkPYuAms

— Mediaite (@Mediaite) April 3, 2019

lmao

frogbs, Wednesday, 3 April 2019 17:27 (six months ago) link

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez quits Facebook, calls social media a ‘public health risk’

The New York Democrat said she stopped using her account personally, but her campaign still sponsors several active ads on Facebook.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/04/15/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-quits-facebook-calls-social-media-public-health-risk/

the late great, Monday, 15 April 2019 17:05 (six months ago) link

i have not really been paying much attention to AOC but she's got that right

the late great, Monday, 15 April 2019 17:06 (six months ago) link

yeah A+ and a good reminder for me to erase my account

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Monday, 15 April 2019 17:14 (six months ago) link

deactivated a couple weeks ago and it's been v good

Simon H., Monday, 15 April 2019 17:16 (six months ago) link

likely AOC couldn't understand Ryan because he makes that face while talking and no sound can escape his pursed lips

the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Monday, 15 April 2019 17:20 (six months ago) link

AOC on Biden: "Does not particularly animate me...I don’t want to go back. I want to go forward.’"

“I haven't endorsed anybody but I'm very supportive of Bernie."

“What Warren ‘is bringing to the table’ is ‘truly remarkable and transformational.’”https://t.co/Ps0pMMMMeJ

— Waleed Shahid (@_waleedshahid) April 15, 2019

Simon H., Monday, 15 April 2019 17:26 (six months ago) link

lol just listen to the Skullduggery podcast
that's where all these quotes are coming from

We were never Breeting Borting (President Keyes), Monday, 15 April 2019 17:34 (six months ago) link

ulysses, ck NYC gathering info first

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Monday, 15 April 2019 17:37 (six months ago) link

hm, will peek

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Monday, 15 April 2019 18:54 (six months ago) link

ha literally do not know what ilx fb group name is!

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Monday, 15 April 2019 18:55 (six months ago) link

Wait what? ILX FB group?

DJI, Monday, 15 April 2019 19:21 (six months ago) link

ck yr fb invites U

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Monday, 15 April 2019 19:23 (six months ago) link

Fox News Debuts Premium Channel For 24-Hour Coverage Of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez https://t.co/Tdfe2IkJBD pic.twitter.com/oTwQ2JxhYa

— The Onion (@TheOnion) April 15, 2019

Dan Worsley, Monday, 15 April 2019 19:25 (six months ago) link

that's from January ftr

blokes you can't rust (sic), Monday, 15 April 2019 19:55 (six months ago) link

is there really a private ILX group beyond the "now playing" one

frogbs, Monday, 15 April 2019 20:04 (six months ago) link

This is a story from the future. It's the story of the world we won by fighting for a #GreenNewDeal. Written and narrated by Representative @AOC.

Watch: pic.twitter.com/URFcHgHB3n

— Sunrise Movement 🌅 (@sunrisemvmt) April 17, 2019

Simon H., Wednesday, 17 April 2019 19:26 (six months ago) link

two weeks pass...

• Has a boyfriend.

pplains, Friday, 3 May 2019 20:02 (five months ago) link

This is only going to drive that incel Tucker Carlson even further up the wall.

pplains, Friday, 3 May 2019 20:02 (five months ago) link

Has a boyfriend

plz don't. this is a bad direction for this thread.

A is for (Aimless), Friday, 3 May 2019 20:46 (five months ago) link

Yes please let’s keep this to her flaws

We were never Breeting Borting (President Keyes), Friday, 3 May 2019 20:48 (five months ago) link

Thought this was good: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/lamvo/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-aoc-conservatives-liberals-meme

AOC is the brightest political star born fully of the social media age, and how her political image has functioned online is emblematic of how society now experiences politics. A detailed examination of her digital persona offers a glimpse into the new digital partisanship — how Americans cleave to their ideological matches. Her rise and portrayal offer insight into the central qualities of contemporary politics: relatability, authenticity, and communities built around their identity. And the intense enmity toward her shows how those very same qualities can repel people.

jaymc, Friday, 3 May 2019 20:51 (five months ago) link

1) The team behind the Green New Deal is alarmingly under-informed about the subject matter
2) The Green New Deal doesn't address the role of housing, urban design, or zoning in carbon emissions

Benjamin-, Friday, 3 May 2019 21:01 (five months ago) link

Sorry, I mean the role those things play in increasing carbon emissions.

Benjamin-, Friday, 3 May 2019 21:03 (five months ago) link

The Green New Deal, however it shakes out, is bound to be a flawed vehicle for addressing human-caused climate change. That's because it is a hybrid, attempting to build a coalition, where some reps who would not vote for a "climate change" bill will vote for it as a jobs bill and sell it to their constituents that way. That's how politics work. The decades-long billion dollar campaign of climate denial has a long tail and we'll be lucky to get anything moving before 2021.

A is for (Aimless), Friday, 3 May 2019 21:11 (five months ago) link

there are a lot of important things that aren't addressed in the Green New Deal. for example, it doesn't include anything about the mechanisms by which a price will be placed at carbon, which is probably the single most important step to reducing carbon emissions.

that's because at the moment, the green new deal is a resolution, not a bill. it's 14 pages, mostly a list of goals. i don't know what will be in the actual proposed legislation, but it will be many times longer than that.

these are not all of the possible side effects (Karl Malone), Friday, 3 May 2019 21:18 (five months ago) link

xp

these are not all of the possible side effects (Karl Malone), Friday, 3 May 2019 21:18 (five months ago) link

Anyone planning to watch the AOC doc on Netflix?

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Friday, 3 May 2019 22:01 (five months ago) link

well, I am now

k3vin k., Friday, 3 May 2019 22:31 (five months ago) link

The trailer looked great!

DJI, Saturday, 4 May 2019 00:08 (five months ago) link

It's good. Ocasio Cortez comes off very well, magnificent.

Yerac, Saturday, 4 May 2019 00:38 (five months ago) link

Man, and all the Crowley supporters in Jackson Heights made me laugh.

Yerac, Saturday, 4 May 2019 00:38 (five months ago) link

I wouldn’t be able to enjoy it, I know I’d be questioning the objectivity of the filmmakers the whole time

calstars, Saturday, 4 May 2019 01:56 (five months ago) link

I’m sure it’s an effective piece of propaganda

calstars, Saturday, 4 May 2019 01:57 (five months ago) link

you missed your calling as a film reviewer.

Yerac, Saturday, 4 May 2019 02:59 (five months ago) link

I kind of felt for the other candidates that lost and were so overshadowed by Ocasio Cortez but it's just not the way the story turned out.

Yerac, Saturday, 4 May 2019 03:03 (five months ago) link

fun fact: filmmakers aren’t objective, nor should they try to be

michael keaton IS jim thirlwell IN ‘foetaljuice’ (bizarro gazzara), Saturday, 4 May 2019 08:46 (five months ago) link

Did the filmmakers just document those four candidates or did they follow a larger number and then trim in post? I love all four of them, and I'm psyched all four are running again.

Johnny Fever, Saturday, 4 May 2019 21:18 (five months ago) link

Wait, Amy Vilela hasn't announced her plans yet, but the other three appear to be running again in 2020.

Johnny Fever, Saturday, 4 May 2019 21:23 (five months ago) link

can we not

|Restore| |Restart| |Quit| (Doctor Casino), Saturday, 4 May 2019 22:55 (five months ago) link

I think that documentary opens here in a couple of weeks.

clemenza, Tuesday, 7 May 2019 11:38 (five months ago) link

Saw the trailer yesterday. Her boyf seems nice.

xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 7 May 2019 14:34 (five months ago) link

We chose to go on the climate offense with the #GreenNewDeal.

As a result, climate denial is now a losing position + we got GOP (incl #WheresMitch!) to finally admit that climate change is real + man-made.

Now it’s time to go after predatory lending.

Whose side is the GOP on? https://t.co/1nI4UQnEVB

— Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (@AOC) May 10, 2019

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 10 May 2019 19:22 (five months ago) link

a little early to declare victory on "+ we got GOP (incl #WheresMitch!) to finally admit that climate change is real + man-made."

these are not all of the possible side effects (Karl Malone), Friday, 10 May 2019 19:25 (five months ago) link

this is what you do when you're organizing though, you trumpet each victory and you keep up the offensive on the boss.

Good morning, how are you, I'm (Doctor Casino), Friday, 10 May 2019 19:49 (five months ago) link

YEP

recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 10 May 2019 19:53 (five months ago) link

nothing wrong with trumpeting victories, i'm just saying

"As a result, climate denial is now a losing position + we got GOP (incl #WheresMitch!) to finally admit that climate change is real + man-made."

is not correct

these are not all of the possible side effects (Karl Malone), Friday, 10 May 2019 20:02 (five months ago) link

as in, that didn't happen

these are not all of the possible side effects (Karl Malone), Friday, 10 May 2019 20:02 (five months ago) link

or, to the extent that it did happen, it's victory of the pyrrhic style - maybe there's a handful of conservatives willing to admit, under scrutiny, that climate change is real and driven by GHG emissions from humans, but forgive me for my disbelief that they're going to do jack shit about it in the future

these are not all of the possible side effects (Karl Malone), Friday, 10 May 2019 20:04 (five months ago) link

jeez, Karl, it's Friday -- we won climate change

recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 10 May 2019 20:05 (five months ago) link

Karl yes but the idea here is that by saying it, you MAKE it happen - now the ball's in their court. whether that does anything, who knows, but it's worth staking out the claim pre-emptively imo

Emperor Tonetta Ketchup (sleeve), Friday, 10 May 2019 20:08 (five months ago) link

that didn't happen

Sometimes mischaracterizing your opponent's position is winning politics. God knows the GOP use this as their comprehensive approach to every position that doesn't follow their party line.

A is for (Aimless), Friday, 10 May 2019 20:42 (five months ago) link

Sometimes mischaracterizing your opponent's position is winning politics.

"You and I know it's not true, but let's make the son of a bitch deny it!"

shared unit of analysis (unperson), Friday, 10 May 2019 20:58 (five months ago) link

here's a challop for you: given our immediate political peril, i am not only okay with the left prevaricating about shit that genuinely doesn't matter if it helps move the needle on things that do, i would GREATLY APPRECIATE MORE

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Friday, 10 May 2019 21:45 (five months ago) link

otm

don't mock my smock or i'll clean your clock (silby), Friday, 10 May 2019 21:49 (five months ago) link

it's not even prevaricating, it's rhetoric imho - - - - if you're on the listserv of any campaign fighting anything it's full of stuff like this. it's how you make people feel like they're on the side that's going to win BUT that the other side are still being actively villainous and fighting tooth and nail to try and stop it, so they can't be complacent.

Good morning, how are you, I'm (Doctor Casino), Friday, 10 May 2019 21:51 (five months ago) link

yeah, i mean...i see where everyone's coming from

i guess i read AOC's tweet as too much of a "mission accomplished, now the next thing" kind of statement. upon extensive further review that was projection on my part

these are not all of the possible side effects (Karl Malone), Friday, 10 May 2019 21:51 (five months ago) link

but it works cf "we are already building the wall"

d'ILM for Murder (Hadrian VIII), Friday, 10 May 2019 22:02 (five months ago) link

When truth is a rhetorical option, we all lose.

But lets just savor this, I guess.

nonsense upon stilts (Sanpaku), Friday, 10 May 2019 22:59 (five months ago) link

When truth is a rhetorical option, we all lose.

Best line in Spirts of the Material World

recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 10 May 2019 23:03 (five months ago) link

When truth is a rhetorical option, we all lose.

This was one of Socrates' main talking points. But the truth is (see what I did there?) that the option of lying outright, or shading the truth to whatever fine degree is in your linguistic power, is an option quickly discovered by every child capable of assembling a complete sentence. It was never possible to make truth mandatory.

A is for (Aimless), Friday, 10 May 2019 23:06 (five months ago) link

well that said, rhetoric and slogans are things the republicans are really good at, e.g. their recent arguments about abortion, we really need to start adopting their strategies and changing the conversation

Dan S, Friday, 10 May 2019 23:09 (five months ago) link

McConnell mumbled "it's man-made" to one of his play partners while he was semi-conscious in a dungeon

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 10 May 2019 23:37 (five months ago) link

there is no political sah-lution.

recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 10 May 2019 23:51 (five months ago) link

lol Alfred <3

Emperor Tonetta Ketchup (sleeve), Saturday, 11 May 2019 00:14 (five months ago) link

The truth is there are no rules any longer and the sooner the Dems get this the better.

Mazzy Tsar (PBKR), Saturday, 11 May 2019 01:34 (five months ago) link

"when they go low, we lose elections"

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 11 May 2019 03:34 (five months ago) link

in political terms, the Democrats are a basketball team still committed to shooting mid-range jumpers

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, 11 May 2019 14:30 (five months ago) link

so AOC is trae young bombing threes from the logo

be the 2 chainz you want 2 see in the world (m bison), Saturday, 11 May 2019 14:38 (five months ago) link

i guess? i don't think about my posts i just hoist

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, 11 May 2019 14:47 (five months ago) link

dems who hoist: AOC, warren, bernie
dems who dribble into a contested midrange baseline j: biden

be the 2 chainz you want 2 see in the world (m bison), Saturday, 11 May 2019 14:49 (five months ago) link

can we return to an English-only thread plz thnks

recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 11 May 2019 14:52 (five months ago) link

wow like all great prophets im being persecuted in my own times

be the 2 chainz you want 2 see in the world (m bison), Saturday, 11 May 2019 14:54 (five months ago) link

Alfred gets a flagrant 2

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 12 May 2019 15:18 (five months ago) link

Nesting Doll Yacht Rich is a very good turn of phrase.

Yerac, Sunday, 12 May 2019 16:26 (five months ago) link

oh my GOD look what i found at the comic shop today 😂 pic.twitter.com/58jp9iX1A2

— Tatum Flynn (@Tatum_Flynn) May 24, 2019

despondently sipping tomato soup (Sanpaku), Sunday, 26 May 2019 04:34 (four months ago) link

oooof

https://deadspin.com/fresno-grizzlies-are-sorry-for-memorial-day-video-that-1835063084

But when it reached the part of the speech where Reagan addressed “the enemies of freedom,” the following images were shown: A protester in a beanie with an anti-fascist slogan, Kim Jong-un, U.S. Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Fidel Castro, protesters holding a “NO TRUMP NO KKK” signs, and protesters holding an “ANTIFA” sign.

frogbs, Tuesday, 28 May 2019 16:40 (four months ago) link

two weeks pass...

BREAKING: Ted Cruz has had sex at least 16 times


On Wednesday, Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) proposed a new bipartisan bill to Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY): Make birth control available over the counter.

When Ocasio-Cortez tweeted “Birth control should be over-the-counter, pass it on,” the GOP senator responded with “I agree.”

“Perhaps, in addition to the legislation we are already working on together to ban Members of Congress from becoming lobbyists, we can team up here as well,” Cruz tweeted. “A simple, clean bill making birth control available over the counter. Interested?”

Although Cruz is staunchly anti-abortion, the Republican lawmaker has expressed support for contraceptives in the past.

“Now, listen, I have been a conservative my entire life,” Cruz said during a presidential campaign stop in 2015. “I have never met anybody, any conservative, who wants to ban contraceptives. As I noted, Heidi and I, we have two little girls. I’m very glad we don’t have 17.”

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/ted-cruz-aoc-bipartisan-bill-birth-control-over-the-counter

i will never make a typo ever again (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 12 June 2019 19:11 (four months ago) link

i have a feeling cruz is about to meet some conservatives who want to ban contraceptives

i will never make a typo ever again (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 12 June 2019 19:12 (four months ago) link

Ted Cruz had more sex than I did in 2015!

recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 12 June 2019 19:16 (four months ago) link

"...we can team up here as well."

I think somebody has a little crush!

pplains, Wednesday, 12 June 2019 19:49 (four months ago) link

There's been a lot of Ted Cruz/AOC wheeling and dealing lately. Not sure what to make of it or if it will amount to anything.

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Wednesday, 12 June 2019 23:46 (four months ago) link

Don't see the big deal so long as she/we get what she/we want.

recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 12 June 2019 23:49 (four months ago) link

Yeah, definitely. Cruz is just looking for an opportunity to work with a renowned evil communist so he can he’s bipartisan when he runs again in 2024

i will never make a typo ever again (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 12 June 2019 23:50 (four months ago) link

So he can ^say^

i will never make a typo ever again (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 12 June 2019 23:50 (four months ago) link

Both can tell their constituents that Bipartisanship is Possible -- even when it doesn't work.

recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 12 June 2019 23:53 (four months ago) link

Beto would have said he was glad he didn't have hundreds of kids...

a large tuna called “Justice” (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 12 June 2019 23:55 (four months ago) link

fyi:

Hey swooning liberals: Republicans want a “clean bill” to make birth control OTC because it would mean *insurance companies don’t have to cover it* and we know this because this was *literally the bill they already tried to pass once before* https://t.co/hvDJf7smEY

— August J. Pollak (@AugustJPollak) June 12, 2019

k3vin k., Thursday, 13 June 2019 01:48 (four months ago) link

Oh for sure. We should mention (and k3vin would be in a position to explain) that Obamacare requires contraception as a preventative service. No?

recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 13 June 2019 01:58 (four months ago) link

trump in 2017 weakened the contraceptive mandate, letting insurers with supposed religious objections absain. I am honestly not sure what the law would be if birth control were made OTC -- generally insurances do not cover OTC products. I assume this is why talk of a "clean" bill gives health policy people pause

k3vin k., Thursday, 13 June 2019 02:06 (four months ago) link

yeah I'm not buying at all that there are political points to be gained in the TX electorate by bipartisanship, much less teamimg up with this year's Satan, of all ppl

d'ILM for Murder (Hadrian VIII), Thursday, 13 June 2019 02:12 (four months ago) link

only for Chuck Todd types

recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 13 June 2019 02:30 (four months ago) link

AOC has proven sharp, or at least has a sharp staff. I'm sure she won't fall into a Cruz trap. The glory of Ted Cruz is that he's such a transparently meretricious and silly man; he fools no one.

recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 13 June 2019 02:31 (four months ago) link

well except for that one lady seventeen times

d'ILM for Murder (Hadrian VIII), Thursday, 13 June 2019 02:56 (four months ago) link

AOC used 'begging the question' in an improper fashion the other day; this is the only flaw i've noticed so far

mookieproof, Thursday, 13 June 2019 03:04 (four months ago) link

hee hee

quelle sprocket damage (sic), Thursday, 13 June 2019 04:15 (four months ago) link

Fox News' bullshit with her is so ham-handed yet their viewership is so fucking brain-dead that I guess it should count as being subversive. This rant brought on by reading a headline article about her on the site and immediately noticing that they painstakingly recreate every single ellipsis, "you know," repetition, and stumble in her speech when they quote her, which afaik they don't do for anyone else, obviously not for the Big Wet Prez. god, they're so pathetic.

Evans on Hammond (evol j), Monday, 17 June 2019 15:31 (four months ago) link

Mr. President, you’re from Queens.

You may fool the rest of the country, but I’ll call your bluff any day of the week.

Opening an impeachment inquiry is exactly what we must do when the President obstructs justice, advises witnesses to ignore legal subpoenas, & more.

Bye 👋🏽 https://t.co/4O9PNbYFki

— Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (@AOC) June 17, 2019

a large tuna called “Justice” (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 17 June 2019 15:36 (four months ago) link

pleeeease respond directly to that, trump, pleeeease

i will never make a typo ever again (Karl Malone), Monday, 17 June 2019 16:36 (four months ago) link

she showed remarkable restraint in not adding "felicia"

the public eating of beans (Sparkle Motion), Monday, 17 June 2019 16:58 (four months ago) link

kinda surprised Trump hasn't given her a dumb nickname yet. I'm sure my father-in-law could help.

Evans on Hammond (evol j), Monday, 17 June 2019 17:16 (four months ago) link

That was a Scavino tweet. There's no possible way he could spell her name correctly on the first try.

shared unit of analysis (unperson), Monday, 17 June 2019 17:29 (four months ago) link

I'm sure Trump will just call her Sandy

Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Monday, 17 June 2019 17:31 (four months ago) link

kinda surprised Trump hasn't given her a dumb nickname yet.

I think he realizes she is absolutely not scared of him, and as with any bully that sets him back on his heels a bit.

I am curious (george) (slight return) (WmC), Monday, 17 June 2019 17:32 (four months ago) link

i'm sure he's workshopping "Slutty Cortez" on the golf course

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Monday, 17 June 2019 17:32 (four months ago) link

Socialist Sandy

a large tuna called “Justice” (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 17 June 2019 17:33 (four months ago) link

XP I imagine whenever he does respond, part of the attack will involve him not thinking she's a "10".

a large tuna called “Justice” (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 17 June 2019 17:34 (four months ago) link

I was thinking Ditzy AOC, that seems to be the angle the right-wing media has been taking on her and I don't think Trump's creative enough to go in a different direction.

Evans on Hammond (evol j), Monday, 17 June 2019 17:52 (four months ago) link

AOC's best asset is how she bullies the bullies right back

omar little, Monday, 17 June 2019 17:57 (four months ago) link

kyle walker?

godfellaz (darraghmac), Monday, 17 June 2019 18:09 (four months ago) link

has no one in power tried "Dumbfuck Donald" aka #DFD

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Monday, 17 June 2019 18:46 (four months ago) link

just fyi i have tried a similar line on trump in my daydreams, and he comes back with "oh this one has a real foul mouth, just a real nasty mouth" and before i can get my response in the press goes crazy and starts shouting additional questions at him and the moment is over

i will never make a typo ever again (Karl Malone), Monday, 17 June 2019 18:58 (four months ago) link

We need an investigative reporter to seek out his early classmates and ask what pejoratives they used while he was crammed in a locker with the band of his undershorts stretched over his head.

Morrie Antoilette (Old Lunch), Monday, 17 June 2019 19:05 (four months ago) link

Ditzy AOC, that seems to be the angle the right-wing media has been taking on her

0_o how are they getting this from her being a sharp, focused, aware communicator and oh never mind

We need an investigative reporter to seek out his early classmates and ask what pejoratives they used while he was crammed in a locker with the band of his undershorts stretched over his head.

investigative reporters have so far failed to uncover the moment when cruel bullies shaped the formerly kind and placid Donnie into a defensive creature, trapped inside a harsh shell, that we can still reach and nourish and change

In elementary school, Donny impressed classmates with his refusal to acknowledge mistakes, even one so trivial as misidentifying a popular professional wrestler. No matter his pals’ ridicule, one recalled, he doubled down, insisting wrestler Antonino Rocca’s name was “Rocky Antonino.”

A fierce competitor, Trump could erupt in anger, pummeling another boy or smashing a baseball bat if he made an out, two childhood neighbors said. In school, he misbehaved so often that his initials became his friends’ shorthand for detention. .. “DTs” — short for “Donny Trump.”

Dennis Burnham was four years younger and lived around the corner from Donald. He inherited his own impression of his neighbor from his mother, who warned that he should “stay away from the Trumps.”

“Donald was known to be a bully, I was a little kid, and my parents didn’t want me beaten up,” said Burnham, 65, a business consultant in Texas.

Once when she left Dennis in a playpen in a back yard adjoining the Trumps’ property, Martha Burnham returned to find Donald throwing rocks at her son. “She saw Donald standing at the fence,” Dennis Burnham said, “using the playpen for target ­practice.”

“He had a reputation for saying anything that came into his head,” said Donald Kass, 70, a retired agronomist who was a schoolmate. When Trump misidentified Rocca, the pro wrestler, Kass recalled, “We would laugh at him and tell him he was wrong, and he’d say he was right. The next time, he would make the same mistake, and it would be the same thing all over again.”

In his neighborhood, Donald and his friends were known to ride their bikes and “shout and curse very loudly,” said Steve Nachtigall, who lived nearby. Nachtigall said he once saw them jump off their bikes and beat up another boy.

“It’s kind of like a little video snippet that remains in my brain because I think it was so unusual and terrifying at that age,” recalled Nachtigall, 66, a doctor in New Jersey. “He was a loudmouth bully.”

Ann Trees, 82, who taught at Kew-Forest School, where Trump was a student through seventh grade: “He was headstrong and determined. He would sit with his arms folded with this look on his face — I use the word surly — almost daring you to say one thing or another that wouldn’t settle with him.”

Trump wrote that his main focus as a youngster was “creating mischief.” As a second-grader, he wrote, he “actually” gave his music teacher a black eye because “I didn’t think he knew anything about music, and I almost got expelled.”

None of Trump’s childhood friends recall the incident or Donald talking about it then. Asked about the punch recently, Trump said, “When I say ‘punch,’ when you’re that age, nobody punches very hard.”

At a 2009 reunion, Kass said, the teacher, Charles Walker, told him that Trump had never struck him. But Walker, who died last year, claimed no affection for Trump. In the final stages of his life, according to his son, Charles Walker learned that Trump was considering a presidential bid.

“When that kid was 10,” Peter Walker recalled his father telling family members gathered at his bedside, “even then he was a little s---.”





After he was sent to military high school for disciplinary issues:

Dobias said he recognized in Trump an innate drive: “He wanted to be number one. He wanted to be noticed. He wanted to be recognized. And he liked ­compliments.”

Enraged by a bunkmate's unmade bed, he threw the boy's sheets on the floor and

tried to push a fellow cadet out a second-floor window, only to be thwarted when two other students intervened.

In his room, Trump played Elvis Presley and Johnny Mathis albums. He liked to screw an ultraviolet light into the overhead socket and lie down for a tan. “We’re going to the beach,” Trump would announce to his roommate, David Smith.

A month after senior year started, Trump faced a crisis. One of his platoon sergeants shoved a plebe, Lee Ains, against a wall because the freshman was too slow snapping to attention. At the time, the academy was already dealing with a serious hazing incident and was sensitive to new allegations of abuse. The administration reassigned Trump as a battalion training officer.

Ains said the academy concluded that Trump had not monitored his officers “as closely as he should have.”

Trump described his reassignment as a promotion. “I did a good job and that’s why I got elevated,” he said.



I mean, there's these, but I don't know how effective suddenly calling him Donny or referring to his hair is gonna be at curtailing him. Might have to impeach or something instead?

Even Trump has acknowledged the similarities between himself as an adult and when he was the boy whom friends alternately referred to as “Donny,” “The Trumpet” and “Flat Top” (for his hair).

quelle sprocket damage (sic), Monday, 17 June 2019 21:34 (four months ago) link

I don't know, man. Maybe we should try calling him Drumpf again first.

Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Tuesday, 18 June 2019 13:59 (four months ago) link

Whole lot of Trump posting on the AOC thread

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Tuesday, 18 June 2019 14:51 (four months ago) link

we need somewhere to talk about him

Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Tuesday, 18 June 2019 14:55 (four months ago) link

Imagine being lectured by a Cheney about mass murder. On second thought, don't imagine that. https://t.co/vUQiJVBbQD

— Dennis Perrin (@DennisThePerrin) June 18, 2019

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 18 June 2019 16:35 (four months ago) link

https://i.imgur.com/KklPPjw.jpg

pplains, Tuesday, 18 June 2019 17:15 (four months ago) link

Liz Cheney can get the Shoah out of her fucking mouth

don't mock my smock or i'll clean your clock (silby), Tuesday, 18 June 2019 17:25 (four months ago) link

George Takei, 1940s US "internee," backs up AOC

https://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/celebrity/george-takei-us-has-concentration-camps/

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 20 June 2019 21:20 (four months ago) link

AOC on CNN not merely defending but doubling down on "concentration camps" callout like a complete boss

I know it gets harder and the job is disillusioning but I really hope she is able to sustain this boldness

on a day like today it feels more and more critical

d'ILM for Murder (Hadrian VIII), Thursday, 27 June 2019 21:00 (three months ago) link

This Senate Bill will have us write a $4.6 Billion blank check (incl military $) for the border w NO accountability - just a verbal pinky promise.

Trump is not to be trusted with protecting our immigrants. Why must that even be stated? We need hard lines of protection, in ink. https://t.co/xFci23pFo6

— Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (@AOC) June 27, 2019

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 28 June 2019 03:21 (three months ago) link

uh oh, look out Intercept haterz

Climate change is here + we’ve got a deadline: 12 years left to cut emissions in half.

A #GreenNewDeal is our plan for a world and a future worth fighting for.

How did we get here?
What is at stake?
And where are we going?

Please watch & share widely ⬇️pic.twitter.com/IMCtS86VXG

— Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (@AOC) April 17, 2019

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 28 June 2019 03:27 (three months ago) link

Generally speaking I think the intercept is fine, it’s just greenwald who sucks

Evans on Hammond (evol j), Friday, 28 June 2019 03:39 (three months ago) link

can you do that for all the other tweets you post

“uh oh look out doug henwood haters”

american bradass (BradNelson), Friday, 28 June 2019 03:45 (three months ago) link

give us a kiss

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 28 June 2019 04:02 (three months ago) link

Uh oh look out kiss haters

Got your butt drank (Neanderthal), Friday, 28 June 2019 05:03 (three months ago) link

definitely more of a king diamond guy, if that's what you're getting at.

pplains, Friday, 28 June 2019 13:05 (three months ago) link

The Intercept played a role in the conviction of whistleblower/patriot Reality Winner.

despondently sipping tomato soup (Sanpaku), Friday, 28 June 2019 17:21 (three months ago) link

as did we all

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 28 June 2019 17:35 (three months ago) link

It's slightly annoying that AOC lacks an innate sonar for oncoming meme garbage barges.

Sassy Boutonnière (ledriver), Friday, 28 June 2019 17:46 (three months ago) link

pelosi does bad

“A glass of water could’ve [beat a 20-yr incumbt]”
“The Green Dream or whatever”
“Their public whatever”

Those aren’t quotes from me; they‘re from the Speaker. Having respect for ourselves doesn’t mean we lack respect for her.

It means we won’t let everyday people be dismissed. https://t.co/VMRkcd8xlL

— Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (@AOC) July 8, 2019

i will never make a typo ever again (Karl Malone), Tuesday, 9 July 2019 15:51 (three months ago) link

this is a good tweet

coroner criticises butt (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 9 July 2019 15:53 (three months ago) link

pelosi seems threatened by AOC

hollow your fart (m bison), Tuesday, 9 July 2019 21:08 (three months ago) link

the legacy pol's territory has wire fencing

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 9 July 2019 21:11 (three months ago) link

her "They’re four people, and that’s how many votes they got" comment is going to look pretty shortsighted if/when AOC and "the squad", which is apparently what they're called, get more support in the house

i will never make a typo ever again (Karl Malone), Tuesday, 9 July 2019 21:27 (three months ago) link

"What's Meadows and Mulvaney got, a half-dozen knuckle-draggers?"

pplains, Tuesday, 9 July 2019 21:53 (three months ago) link

wow pelosi is kind of a piece of shit

A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Tuesday, 9 July 2019 22:17 (three months ago) link

a very unpopular opinion on this board 4 months ago, will

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 9 July 2019 22:19 (three months ago) link

Pelosi did a lot of good for a lot of people by keeping the democratic party united through some crazy ass times. She’s been one of the most effective speakers (given the crazy ass times) in any of our lifetimes. She’s also showing how out of touch she is with what motivates the next wave of the Democratic Party. Those aren’t incompatible views, I don’t think.

i will never make a typo ever again (Karl Malone), Tuesday, 9 July 2019 22:29 (three months ago) link

I guess we can all look forward to yasss kweening in hell when trump gets re-elected

A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Tuesday, 9 July 2019 22:31 (three months ago) link

"The squad" has four votes, does not have a caucus (like, say, the Congressional Black Caucus), has no seniority, and no committee chairmanships. They currently have very little power in the House. Pelosi is being unnecessarily antagonistic, but she is stating a fact of political power - twitter followers /= votes on the floor. Pelosi commands a majority of those votes, they command four.

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 9 July 2019 22:37 (three months ago) link

Pelosi also knows its useful to have a foil on the left, it allows her to consolidate power in the rest of the caucus

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 9 July 2019 22:38 (three months ago) link

like how do you not know to not antagonize the activist wing who are going to be doing a lot of the heavy lifting getting out the vote in 2020? it’s almost like you prefer to be fundraising off a an unpopular idiot pres/ opposition party for the rest of your days rather than actually governing...

the only other explanation I got is she’s going soft in the head.

A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Tuesday, 9 July 2019 22:39 (three months ago) link

we still don't have to like her shakes!

president of deluded fruitcakes anonymous (silby), Tuesday, 9 July 2019 22:39 (three months ago) link

she doesn't care if you like her, she doesn't need the activist wing to like her either - the point at which she needs them to like her is the point at which they command enough votes to scuttle legislation a la the Freedom Caucus in the GOP. They don't have that now, and the next point at which they *may* have that power is not until 2020.

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 9 July 2019 22:42 (three months ago) link

like I said, it's actually to her benefit if the activist wing doesn't like her

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 9 July 2019 22:44 (three months ago) link

idk maybe having a “foil” on the left helps w the caucus (but really?), but if she thinks it’s going to make her party the “sensible moderate alternative” for white Panera moms or even the mainstream media, I think she’s going to be extremely disappointed.

or not, bc again—not convinced she actually gaf about winning anything other than donors

A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Tuesday, 9 July 2019 22:45 (three months ago) link

Panera moms!

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 9 July 2019 22:46 (three months ago) link

I hate to invoke it, but as long as the “O window” only moves right (aided and abetted by the Dem leadership), it’s going to this or worse forever.

A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Tuesday, 9 July 2019 22:51 (three months ago) link

to be*

A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Tuesday, 9 July 2019 22:51 (three months ago) link

I read that as Pantera moms.

Garbo Pond (Leee), Tuesday, 9 July 2019 22:53 (three months ago) link

lol yes what about the Pantera moms? sure, maybe their exes are mostly alt-right now. but they probably want universal healthcare, living wages and affordable childcare

A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Tuesday, 9 July 2019 22:56 (three months ago) link

^^Gun control too, because Dimebag...

frustration and wonky passion (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 9 July 2019 23:00 (three months ago) link

I keep having to look up "Overton window." Is this really a thing people say in conversation? It sounds like early 20th century interior design.

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 9 July 2019 23:02 (three months ago) link

It is probably spoken aloud and earnestly in hundreds of dorm rooms across the nation every week.

A is for (Aimless), Tuesday, 9 July 2019 23:03 (three months ago) link

xp it is this side of the Atlantic! I read/hear that several times a week.

gyac, Tuesday, 9 July 2019 23:06 (three months ago) link

idk maybe having a “foil” on the left helps w the caucus (but really?), but if she thinks it’s going to make her party the “sensible moderate alternative” for white Panera moms or even the mainstream media,

these are not the same thing! maintaining control of the caucus means her ability to corral votes, and from her POV as the Speaker anything that helps her achieve this end is valuable. How it plays outside the chamber is not relevant/doesn't enter the calculus.

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 9 July 2019 23:09 (three months ago) link

lads

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 9 July 2019 23:25 (three months ago) link

Pelosi's primary job is to maintain control of the House, now and in the near future. She has little influence on Senate or presidential elections. She will cater more to members who have successfully held seats for a long time than to new members who have only won one or two elections. She will cater more to members who align with the preponderance of the caucus than those whose support is weak or equivocal. That's the system.

AOC and her cohort have to sow the seeds of their own success by bringing the caucus along to their positions. That's going to take time. Their best argument is to become acknowledged leaders regarding issues popular with voters, not just in their districts, but in the nation at large. They are already launched in that direction. We need to support them vocally to lend them the power they will need to change things.

A is for (Aimless), Tuesday, 9 July 2019 23:28 (three months ago) link

for someone so talented there *must* be a better way to corral votes/ maintain your caucus than shitting on popular politicians from your party in the press?

unless your intended audience is actually pharma execs.

A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Tuesday, 9 July 2019 23:31 (three months ago) link

Her mistake was to go public; this was thoughtless. Otherwise Aimless and Shakey otm.

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 9 July 2019 23:36 (three months ago) link

Her irritation is probably an indication of their challenging her more directly and persistently than she is used to. Their sense of independence and purpose is a problem for her, in that it makes her work harder corralling the fence-sitters who lean left and are getting worked on by the new guard from the other direction than Pelosi is fronting.

A is for (Aimless), Tuesday, 9 July 2019 23:43 (three months ago) link

They know social media and she doesn't; it's gonna be a generational problem. I want AOC and the other freshman to keep pressing her.

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 9 July 2019 23:44 (three months ago) link

she probably said 900,000 words in that interview about her process before she accurately said "they've four votes" in the context of talking about her process, and may or may not regret the latter being the sole pullquote.

quelle sprocket damage (sic), Tuesday, 9 July 2019 23:45 (three months ago) link

xpost: I want AOC and the other freshman to keep pressing her.

yes, she is openly stating that her role is to represent the votes of her party's House representatives. if those votes change, she will not suddenly stop representing them.

quelle sprocket damage (sic), Tuesday, 9 July 2019 23:47 (three months ago) link

well, yeah

DHS & ICE are flagrantly violating Congressional orders, just as we said they would.

Yet it was @IlhanMN, @AyannaPressley, @RashidaTlaib & I that were wrong to oppose throwing more money to abusive agencies, right? ⬇️ https://t.co/JExRxD1XDS

— Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (@AOC) July 10, 2019

A comical 'blobbumentary' programme (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 10 July 2019 08:15 (three months ago) link

The Remnick interview.

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 10 July 2019 23:39 (three months ago) link

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-gop-challenger-scherie-murray-172333854.html

“She isn’t worried about us — she’s worried about being famous,” Murray wrote when announcing her campaign on Twitter on July 17. “She thinks public service is not about serving the public, but herself. If you think you deserve better, then you’re just like me.”

Um, you know who the President is, right?

frustration and wonky passion (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 18 July 2019 17:53 (three months ago) link

I keep having to look up "Overton window." Is this really a thing people say in conversation? It sounds like early 20th century interior design.

― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, July 9, 2019 6:02 PM (one week ago) bookmarkflaglink

one of those terms like cuckold that i saw maybe 5 times my whole life and will now see every day for the rest of it

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 18 July 2019 17:56 (three months ago) link

the overton window has shifted on the term "overton window"

Simon H., Thursday, 18 July 2019 18:05 (three months ago) link

We're through the Overton Window here people

frustration and wonky passion (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 18 July 2019 18:07 (three months ago) link

defenestrated, even

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Thursday, 18 July 2019 18:08 (three months ago) link

feel like I've been seeing that term in online political discussions forever

the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Thursday, 18 July 2019 18:08 (three months ago) link

yeah, the Glenn Beck novel came out in 2010 and him and O'Reilly (iirc) had been using it for a while

rob, Thursday, 18 July 2019 18:14 (three months ago) link

two weeks pass...

As the @dick_nixon Twitter account would say, this is a hell of a thing.

‘I don’t want to hear the question ‘is this president racist?’ anymore. He is.’ — @AOC held nothing back while condemning Trump for using the language of white supremacy pic.twitter.com/3rWCkdYq6n

— NowThis (@nowthisnews) August 6, 2019

shared unit of analysis (unperson), Wednesday, 7 August 2019 00:33 (two months ago) link

Amazing.

DJI, Wednesday, 7 August 2019 01:16 (two months ago) link

rob at 1:14 18 Jul 19

yeah, the Glenn Beck novel came out in 2010 and him and O'Reilly (iirc) had been using it for a while

yeah those are two ppl I avoid like the plague so

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 7 August 2019 02:18 (two months ago) link

Saw this at the comic book store today:

https://i.imgur.com/gW32Z9N.jpg

DJI, Saturday, 10 August 2019 22:11 (two months ago) link

any publisher who does variant covers should be jailed, but What are Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Flaws?

quelle sprocket damage (sic), Saturday, 10 August 2019 22:28 (two months ago) link

I’ve got that comic
And the Bernie one too

Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Saturday, 10 August 2019 22:42 (two months ago) link

what do they do in them

flappy bird, Saturday, 10 August 2019 22:48 (two months ago) link

Whatever it is, Archie's worried.

frustration and wonky passion (C. Grisso/McCain), Saturday, 10 August 2019 23:18 (two months ago) link

seize the means of production, one hopes xp

Criss Angel Raw: The Mindfreak Unplugged (bizarro gazzara), Sunday, 11 August 2019 00:04 (two months ago) link

http://i.imgur.com/rFTgSKt.png

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Sunday, 11 August 2019 19:59 (two months ago) link

oh god

Criss Angel Raw: The Mindfreak Unplugged (bizarro gazzara), Sunday, 11 August 2019 20:06 (two months ago) link

tremble at the power, bro

Carisis LaVerted (m bison), Sunday, 11 August 2019 20:31 (two months ago) link

Wow

flappy bird, Sunday, 11 August 2019 22:07 (two months ago) link

batshit leftwing comics 2k19

the public eating of beans (Sparkle Motion), Sunday, 11 August 2019 23:33 (two months ago) link

Devils Due are left wing now???!?

quelle sprocket damage (sic), Monday, 12 August 2019 01:00 (two months ago) link

still not as bad as that one shot in endgame

phil neville jacket (darraghmac), Monday, 12 August 2019 01:05 (two months ago) link

I just assumed it was from the AOC comic upthread

the public eating of beans (Sparkle Motion), Monday, 12 August 2019 02:54 (two months ago) link

Snaps her fingers for universal max diversity

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Monday, 12 August 2019 03:05 (two months ago) link

I just assumed it was from the AOC comic upthread

the logo is right on the cover

quelle sprocket damage (sic), Monday, 12 August 2019 09:49 (two months ago) link

all the gems on the inclusivity gauntlet are all the same colour, smdh

more like the white genocide gauntlet amirite

Criss Angel Raw: The Mindfreak Unplugged (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 12 August 2019 10:58 (two months ago) link

the gauntlet image is from a different book entirely; believe it or not, there was briefly enough AOC interest to spur not only left-wing hagiographic power fantasies but also right-wing talking-point parody as well.
https://www.devilsdue.net/
https://babylonbee.com/news/an-exclusive-look-at-the-new-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-comic-book
not seeing any evidence that "Golden Gulag" books actually published this thing though.

here's another winner from the former publisher:
http://i.imgur.com/skkjIFo.png

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Monday, 12 August 2019 14:46 (two months ago) link

Isn't Babylonbee a conservative version of Onion/Hard Times satire clickbait stuff?

frustration and wonky passion (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 12 August 2019 15:10 (two months ago) link

A quick google around suggests yes and that i have been fooled. Not that the actual comics are that much more unlikely!

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Monday, 12 August 2019 15:19 (two months ago) link

A new day, a new friend 🐧✨ pic.twitter.com/1PmPEHP5Yx

— Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (@AOC) August 24, 2019

As usual, the comments aren't worth the electrons.

hedonic treadmill class action (Sanpaku), Sunday, 25 August 2019 17:45 (one month ago) link

Unbelievable! A congressional representative capable of spontaneous light hearted playfulness. I bet she wasn't even wearing a US flag lapel pin!

A is for (Aimless), Sunday, 25 August 2019 20:39 (one month ago) link

Crenshaw is such an unbelievable dumbass

You are a member of Congress. Why are you “lending” guns to people unsupervised who can’t pass a basic background check?

The people you’re giving a gun to have likely abused their spouse or have a violent criminal record, & you may not know it.

Why on earth would you do that? https://t.co/TQFjcLQebO

— Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (@AOC) September 4, 2019

frogbs, Wednesday, 4 September 2019 14:48 (one month ago) link

All questions of legality and propriety aside, lending out a firearm which might be used for any purpose under the sun and can be traced back directly to you seems...oh, what's the word I'm looking for...incredibly fucking stupid.

Time to Make a Pizza Pact! (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 4 September 2019 14:54 (one month ago) link

omg that's the Monterey Bay Aquarium! Thought it looked familiar. Hope she got to check out the cephalopod exhibit.

Melon Musk (Leee), Wednesday, 4 September 2019 17:29 (one month ago) link

I grew up with guns and my dad's a nut on the subject, but I grew up hearing about the evils of lending guns even to your closest relative.

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 4 September 2019 17:31 (one month ago) link

I have fractionally more sympathy for gun fans who are strictly adherent to safety rules, don't keep their guns loaded, and harbor no siege fantasies, and I bet they're going to wish they spoke up more loudly before their hobby got taken over by murderous clods and the gun manufacturers who manipulated them

president of deluded fruitcakes anonymous (silby), Wednesday, 4 September 2019 17:48 (one month ago) link

I am guessing that Crenshaw and twitter assholes will ignore the substance of AOC’s comments and instead focus on this:

The people you’re giving a gun to have likely abused their spouse or have a violent criminal record, & you may not know it.

I understand her point here, that you can never know for sure that people you know, even friends, are trustworthy and aren’t hiding something. But she should have said “may have” instead of “likely have”

That was a boner imo

I am also Harl (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 4 September 2019 18:29 (one month ago) link

To the extent that the scenario under discussion seems to be 'the wisdom of lending a gun to someone who's failed a background check' I can't say she's wrong. It just wasn't made terribly clear that that was the scenario under discussion.

Time to Make a Pizza Pact! (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 4 September 2019 18:46 (one month ago) link

I assume most of Crenshaw's friends are cops or ex-military so she's probably right

frogbs, Wednesday, 4 September 2019 18:56 (one month ago) link

maybe, but surely she undercut/distracted from her point by including that in there.

I am also Harl (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 4 September 2019 19:18 (one month ago) link

Oh no, she allowed proven shitheads an opportunity to loudly proclaim their shitheadedness like they already do every second of their worthless fucking lives. Major gaffe there on AOC's part.

shared unit of analysis (unperson), Wednesday, 4 September 2019 20:20 (one month ago) link

In other news...

AOC made Steve King so mad he made a video of himself drinking toilet water. All that remains for the rest of us is to sit at her feet and learn https://t.co/qMfSanrEki

— Sam "Pun Terrorist" Thielman (@samthielman) September 4, 2019

shared unit of analysis (unperson), Wednesday, 4 September 2019 20:22 (one month ago) link

hahaha wait what

brigadier pudding (DJP), Wednesday, 4 September 2019 20:39 (one month ago) link

I have fractionally more sympathy for gun fans who are strictly adherent to safety rules, don't keep their guns loaded, and harbor no siege fantasies, and I bet they're going to wish they spoke up more loudly before their hobby got taken over by murderous clods and the gun manufacturers who manipulated them

same, but at this point i gotta wonder if their numbers hover right around those of Never Trump Republicans

A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Thursday, 5 September 2019 01:41 (one month ago) link

Steve King at least correctly identifies as "prisons" those facilities where the immigrants who are asking for asylum from violence and injustice in their home countries are being housed by the US government.

A is for (Aimless), Thursday, 5 September 2019 01:49 (one month ago) link

xp: the gun fans I know who fit that description left the NRA 15-20 years ago

brigadier pudding (DJP), Thursday, 5 September 2019 12:29 (one month ago) link

what the absolute fuck

ABC can go to hell. Running propaganda with a picture of @AOC being set on fire, with dead bodies & skulls in the background, was absolutely despicable. People need to be fired over this. It’s ridiculous & evil. ABC profited off of it, during the #DemDebate. Shame on ABC. Shame. pic.twitter.com/o7msRtQI3J

— Scott Dworkin (@funder) September 13, 2019

Simon H., Friday, 13 September 2019 03:04 (one month ago) link

A reminded that ABC is owned by the merry Walt Disney Company.

Van Horn Street, Friday, 13 September 2019 03:56 (one month ago) link

The Happiest Media Mega-Conglomerate on Earth.

A is for (Aimless), Friday, 13 September 2019 04:46 (one month ago) link

people in that thread point out that it was a local Sinclair affiliate in DC that ran the ad

Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Friday, 13 September 2019 12:57 (one month ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BG0T_hVMqLs

pomenitul, Friday, 13 September 2019 17:05 (one month ago) link

Ah right, that old socialist practice of forced marriage.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Friday, 13 September 2019 17:17 (one month ago) link

You're just blind to the meaning of TRUE socialism!

pomenitul, Friday, 13 September 2019 17:18 (one month ago) link

the ad is very *slow heavy metal music playing*

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Friday, 13 September 2019 17:32 (one month ago) link

Ah right, that old socialist practice of forced marriage.

read the republic! they'll rusticate your babies!! and your pawpaw!!!

j., Friday, 13 September 2019 18:46 (one month ago) link

pawpaw grows better in non-urban areas tbf

now let's play big lunch take little lunch (sic), Friday, 13 September 2019 20:32 (one month ago) link

The USA is completely insane.

The Inner Mounting Phlegm (Tom D.), Friday, 13 September 2019 20:38 (one month ago) link

Only the parts with people in them.

A is for (Aimless), Friday, 13 September 2019 20:47 (one month ago) link

Actually the parts with the least people in them seem to be the most insane

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Friday, 13 September 2019 21:19 (one month ago) link

sure but once you get down to zero people it's all staggering open spaces or crazy mountains or wetlands

president of deluded fruitcakes anonymous (silby), Friday, 13 September 2019 21:21 (one month ago) link

three weeks pass...

Viral Video About Eating Babies at AOC Town Hall Was Staged by Pro-Trump Group

LaRouche PAC, a far-right group that supports Donald Trump, has taken credit for trolling Democratic Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez during a town hall meeting yesterday. An operative with LaRouche made headlines overnight after standing up at AOC’s town hall in Queens yesterday and saying that humanity should eat babies, among other ridiculous things, to address the climate crisis.

Viral video from the incident shows a woman posing as a supporter of AOC and wearing a shirt that reads, “Save the Planet, Eat the Children.” Many people clearly thought she was mentally disturbed, but LaRouche PAC, a fringe organization that believes climate change is a hoax, was behind the stunt, according to the group’s Twitter account.

...AOC can be seen trying to calm the woman down, repeatedly saying “it’s okay,” and ignoring the comments about babies. While the woman’s reference to “bombing” Russia may seem odd, the group supports both President Donald Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin.

“It was us,” the LaRouche organization tweeted late Thursday, in response to a question about whether the woman was serious. “Malthusianism isn’t new, Jonathan Swift knew that. Sometimes, only satire works.”

President Donald Trump got into the fray last night, tweeting “AOC is a Wack Job!” in response to the viral video. Trump likely had no idea that the woman in the video was one of his supporters.

Better than being a criminal who betrays our country. https://t.co/UnShA6gcQQ

— Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (@AOC) October 4, 2019

It is my great honor to post on this messageboard! (Karl Malone), Friday, 4 October 2019 17:02 (two weeks ago) link

this will be much more fun when someone deepfakes AOC responding to the fake supporter of babyeating with approval and praise, and then trump responds to THAT, and the deepfake video is the only version 90% of his supporters see

(note to people who still don't think this is a problem: the tech is there to do it now, and people are demonstrably incredibly dumb and gullible with 0.00000000001% media literacy)

It is my great honor to post on this messageboard! (Karl Malone), Friday, 4 October 2019 17:05 (two weeks ago) link

It's kinda cool how we're reaching peak technical sophistication at the same time we're reaching peak incuriosity/ignorance. And by 'kinda cool' I mean (puts out eyes with knitting needles and just keeps on pushing those needles as far as they'll go)

Furter-Bursting Tater Squirter (Old Lunch), Friday, 4 October 2019 17:27 (two weeks ago) link

"at the same time we're reaching peak incuriosity/ignorance" [citation needed]

like i understand the sentiment but are you aware that people in the past were remarkably incurious and ignorant as well?

Mordy, Friday, 4 October 2019 17:35 (two weeks ago) link

AOC treating someone with dignity, no matter what their issue, completely blows Trump's (and Trump Jnr's) mind. They can't even comprehend what that must be like, you gotta be a wackjob to act like that, amirite!?

Ned Trifle X, Friday, 4 October 2019 17:35 (two weeks ago) link

Jeez, the group claiming to be behind that stunt thinks it's satire.

It was us. Malthusianism isn't new, Jonathan Swift knew that. Sometimes, only satire works. https://t.co/vR8oXdx39i

— Lyndon LaRouche PAC (@larouchepac) October 4, 2019

Ned Trifle X, Friday, 4 October 2019 17:58 (two weeks ago) link

the "modest proposal" reference is the nod to satire but the lack of intelligent application and general pride at one's belligerence without making a reasonable point marks them as the asses they are. just because you read it doesn't mean you understood it.

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Friday, 4 October 2019 18:01 (two weeks ago) link

"at the same time we're reaching peak incuriosity/ignorance" [citation needed]

like i understand the sentiment but are you aware that people in the past were remarkably incurious and ignorant as well?

― Mordy, Friday, October 4, 2019 12:35 PM (twenty-four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Yeesss, daaaaad, I'm awaaaaare, jeeeeez. Let's say the gap between easy access to pretty much all of the information in the world and people's willingness to engage with said information critically is at an all-time high.

Furter-Bursting Tater Squirter (Old Lunch), Friday, 4 October 2019 18:04 (two weeks ago) link

just goes to show that the causes of ignorance + incuriosity aren't a lack of access to information

Mordy, Friday, 4 October 2019 18:06 (two weeks ago) link

Third degree, bruh.

Furter-Bursting Tater Squirter (Old Lunch), Friday, 4 October 2019 18:18 (two weeks ago) link

People wondering when that endorsements coming

anvil, Friday, 4 October 2019 18:35 (two weeks ago) link

Another month or two at least, prob not before Iowa & NH

flappy bird, Friday, 4 October 2019 21:24 (two weeks ago) link

Yeah, its fair enough, best for it to come when its has most impact! Seemed like a lock for Bernie but you never know

anvil, Sunday, 6 October 2019 07:09 (two weeks ago) link

I'd say AOC and Bernie share more in common than AOC and Warren, but I respect AOC's independence and I know she will do whatever she thinks best, regardless.

A is for (Aimless), Sunday, 6 October 2019 19:24 (two weeks ago) link

like i understand the sentiment but are you aware that people in the past were remarkably incurious and ignorant as well?

― Mordy, Friday, October 4, 2019 1:35 PM (two days ago) bookmarkflaglink

I think it’s probably fair to say that the extreme degree of partisanship and niche “news” services contributes to this

k3vin k., Monday, 7 October 2019 00:53 (one week ago) link

we're reaching peak technical sophistication at the same time we're reaching peak incuriosity/ignorance.

I'm not sure this is true. Incuriosity/ignorance implies a kind of passivity, which I don't think is really what we're experiencing. I think gullibility might the more accurate term.

But I'm not sure even gullibility covers it, because if a mistakenly believed fact is disproved, even to the satisfaction of the person holding a particular opinion, it rarely changes the underlying fundamental belief. We're under the illusion that facts matter but they don't, at least not in and of themselves. Facts on any one particular story or issue are just raindrops, even if a thousand of them turn out not to be raindrops - what difference does it make? Even if it turns out not be raining at all, well its raining somewhere, and it will be raining here again sometime, so in a way its raining anyway, regardless of if there is any rain

anvil, Monday, 7 October 2019 07:21 (one week ago) link

People wondering when that endorsements coming

― anvil, Friday, 4 October 201

People didn't have to wonder for long!

anvil, Wednesday, 16 October 2019 05:12 (four days ago) link

Only 1818 years

president of deluded fruitcakes anonymous (silby), Wednesday, 16 October 2019 05:53 (four days ago) link

you, quite literally, love to see it

ilhan omar and rashida tlaib officially on team bernie too

expedited frictionless convergences (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 16 October 2019 05:56 (four days ago) link

this is the opposite of surprising but still, yes, you love to see it

Simon H., Wednesday, 16 October 2019 06:12 (four days ago) link

good. thought she might melt

be goose, do crimes (||||||||), Wednesday, 16 October 2019 07:18 (four days ago) link

maybe Warren's ludicrous tweet about the history of benevolent capitalist wages moved the needle here

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 16 October 2019 11:05 (four days ago) link

Nah, AOC is a fair bit smarter than to base such decisions on tweets.

Frederik B, Wednesday, 16 October 2019 11:19 (four days ago) link

not what I said, but u do u fredzo

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 16 October 2019 11:23 (four days ago) link

https://t.co/Ix1Opmh8Kf pic.twitter.com/emQjKO7LNI

— Garbage 🦍 (@GarbageApe) October 16, 2019

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 16 October 2019 11:43 (four days ago) link

Here is @IlhanMN's official endorsement letter of Bernie. I'm crying. pic.twitter.com/5frgKhWYWE

— Eric Blanc (@_ericblanc) October 16, 2019

😂😂😂

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 16 October 2019 11:45 (four days ago) link

it's good, and i like it

expedited frictionless convergences (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 16 October 2019 11:46 (four days ago) link

My good friend's pastor is trying to run against AOC and she was asking me what the deal is with so many people disliking her. I was like, have you got a minute?

Yerac, Wednesday, 16 October 2019 11:46 (four days ago) link

maybe Warren's ludicrous tweet about the history of benevolent capitalist wages moved the needle here

― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), 16. oktober 2019 13:05 (thirty-eight minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Nah, AOC is a fair bit smarter than to base such decisions on tweets.

― Frederik B, 16. oktober 2019 13:19 (twenty-four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

not what I said, but u do u fredzo

― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), 16. oktober 2019 13:23 (twenty minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Help a poor foreigner with a shaky grasp of the English language out here. How the fuck is that not what you said?

Frederik B, Wednesday, 16 October 2019 11:47 (four days ago) link

Whatever you say Morbius said, that's not what he meant. Whatever he said yesterday is no longer applicable if there's a cheap, lazy, cynical point to be scored today. How is this difficult to understand?

shared unit of analysis (unperson), Wednesday, 16 October 2019 11:53 (four days ago) link

Ur mom is cheap, lazy & cynical.

Una Palooka Dronka (hardcore dilettante), Wednesday, 16 October 2019 11:58 (four days ago) link

im saying it could've been "the last straw" or somesuch

unperson, cancel yr ass

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 16 October 2019 12:09 (four days ago) link

Okay, I still don't get the difference, but let me rephrase what I said.

"Nah, AOC is a fair bit smarter than to let a tweet be 'the last straw' or somesuch."

Look how easy it is if we help each other :)

Frederik B, Wednesday, 16 October 2019 12:16 (four days ago) link

So is anyone legitimately melting down over these endorsements or is this simply some weird horseshoe theory of "liberal tears" at work within an extremely narrow sliver of left social media?

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Wednesday, 16 October 2019 12:26 (four days ago) link

what the fuck

Reacting to the news that three members of the Squad—Democratic Reps. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Rashida Tlaib, and Ilhan Omar—were set the endorse Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) for president, CNN anchor John King wondered aloud after Tuesday night’s Democratic primary debate whether the move would help the progressive senator in the race or be seen as “too urban.”

“It’s an extension of what we see tonight,” King said of the young progressive congresswomen of color. “A debate of who will lead the party and where the party is going to go. Which part of the party will lead the party into the 2020 election? They are more of the younger, fresher face. More aggressive and liberal. Less compromising.”

Noting that the endorsements would “certainly help” Sanders as he looks for a lane to victory in the Democratic primary, King added that they may have some other Democrats asking: “Is this too far left? Is this too uncompromising? Is it too urban? Is it too internet? Does the Democratic Party need to find a broader audience?”

expedited frictionless convergences (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 16 October 2019 12:30 (four days ago) link

I've seen some pretty out-there screencaps but I assume like usual it's a pretty narrow sliver. I am expecting to see a fair number of pundits suddenly asking if endorsements "matter anymore" etc tho xp

Simon H., Wednesday, 16 October 2019 12:31 (four days ago) link

e.g.

Can’t wait to see how this registers, if at all. We’ve evolved past endorsements. No one cares. Will AOC be the exception? https://t.co/ae3JrCxYkp

— Markos Moulitsas (@markos) October 16, 2019

Simon H., Wednesday, 16 October 2019 12:32 (four days ago) link

I mean, John King is definitely right that it will frighten off some racists. But fuck that.

Frederik B, Wednesday, 16 October 2019 12:33 (four days ago) link

I saw this exact segment last night presented on Twitter as ironclad proof that liberal anti-racism is a ruse, and it just left me scratching my head. Who exactly subscribes to this jackass CNN commentator's dipshit views?

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Wednesday, 16 October 2019 12:34 (four days ago) link

Yeah it's quite narrow, those lines between Bernie Vs the rest (Hilary then Harris/Warren now) that were raised in 2016 and have a life of its own across twitter

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 16 October 2019 12:35 (four days ago) link

I guarantee you that the gay HRC worshippers at the Joemygod blog who deeply loathe Bernie for his sedition of 2016 will melt down

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 16 October 2019 12:35 (four days ago) link

bernie campaign 'too black, too strong', counsels cnn anchor

expedited frictionless convergences (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 16 October 2019 12:35 (four days ago) link

(but they are an echo chamber, of course) xp

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 16 October 2019 12:36 (four days ago) link

The media take is already: Good news for Warren, the commie terrorist lovers didn’t endorse her

Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Wednesday, 16 October 2019 12:37 (four days ago) link

my feeling re "does the endorsement matter" or whatever: if she/the Squad had endorsed Warren it would have been a huge deal for her and potentially a campaign derailer, if not outright killer, for Sanders. but now that they've broken they way anyone paying attention would reasonably expect, idk how much of a boost it'll give him on its own. but it sure as hell don't hurt.

Simon H., Wednesday, 16 October 2019 12:38 (four days ago) link

It's a good and reasonable endorsement, not very surprising, absolutely not controversial or a betrayal of anything. I'm not going to hate follow anyone just for the perverse joy of seeing them get upset over this.

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Wednesday, 16 October 2019 12:40 (four days ago) link

Very reasonable endorsement, very good moment to give it. I've said it a lot recently, but I like both Sanders and Warren being in the run right now. Only just skimming what happened at the debate last night, but it seems like it again was a good thing to have two leftists on stage?

Frederik B, Wednesday, 16 October 2019 12:49 (four days ago) link

One leftist, one hardcore capitalist, and 10 oligarchs.

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Wednesday, 16 October 2019 12:52 (four days ago) link

was bernie up there twice or something

expedited frictionless convergences (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 16 October 2019 12:52 (four days ago) link

I think the bigger and more important thing about the endorsement isn't the pointlessness of looking for upset Warren supporters, which is just silly.

Its more about any Warren supporters who might be surprised and wondering why. And thats a plus, regardless of what it leads to

anvil, Wednesday, 16 October 2019 13:31 (four days ago) link

Do you really think it will be surprising to that many? It's not like people don't know who Bernie Sanders is, and what he stands for. They just don't like it.

Frederik B, Wednesday, 16 October 2019 13:38 (four days ago) link

Logically, of course it shouldn't be a surprise. But people often don't work in that way, so yes I'm sure there will be a not insignificant number of people that genuinely are surprised. People like my colleague, who thinks UK centrist politician Jess Phillips and AOC are analogous because 'bolshy'. People make candidates, all candidates, into things that they aren't, and events puncture illusions

anvil, Wednesday, 16 October 2019 13:49 (four days ago) link

I tend to lean Warren over Sanders but I trust "the squad" to speak for me 100% so yeah, this endorsement gets me to switch

frogbs, Wednesday, 16 October 2019 14:10 (four days ago) link

I think we're talking past each other. I really don't see that many Warren voters as being surprised that AOC was closer to Sanders, and the reason that she gave for it. I think most of them just prefer Warren. Sanders was much more well-known at the beginning of the proces, and Warren managed to move past him anyway. I don't think it's because they didn't know who these people were.

Frederik B, Wednesday, 16 October 2019 14:10 (four days ago) link

It didn't change my mind, but I'm glad they did it because now they'll force Warren to clarify her vaguer points. If she gets elected, I want them to nag the hell out of her.

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 16 October 2019 14:12 (four days ago) link

Sanders and Warren are not the same. Sanders is closer to AOC’s positions and political worldview. Why would she have ever endorsed Warren?

It’s cool that Warren is mainsreaming some of these ideas that were still seen as outre, but she is not as left as Sanders on many issues, including foreign policy. And it is (of course) meaningful that she says stuff like “for most of american history, workers benefited from corporate profits in a fair manner”

treeship., Wednesday, 16 October 2019 14:16 (four days ago) link

Sanders and Warren are not the same. Sanders is closer to AOC’s positions and political worldview. Why would she have ever endorsed Warren?

― treeship., 16. oktober 2019 16:16 (thirty-two seconds ago) bookmarkflaglink

Because Warren is going to win, and Sanders is not :)

(this is not a fact, but it's definitely something AOC will have thought about before she endorsed)

Frederik B, Wednesday, 16 October 2019 14:20 (four days ago) link

Frederik B playin' FAMILY FEUD!

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 16 October 2019 14:28 (four days ago) link

The media take is already: Good news for Warren, the commie terrorist lovers didn’t endorse her

― Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Wednesday, October 16, 2019 7:37 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

This doesn't make sense at all to me. I feel like the Squad generally has broader support than Bernie? Like, there are a lot of AOC/Squad fans who are not at all DSA types but are excited about women of color who firmly Stand Up to Trump. This includes plenty of people who voted for Hillary in the 2016 primary and who support Warren now. I've already seen expressions of disappointment on Twitter that Bernie got their coveted endorsement instead.

I guess it's good news for Warren if it means that Trump can't tar her with that association, but I also feel like a Squad endorsement of Warren could've allowed her to consolidate support from Squad fans who are otherwise considering Sanders or Harris.

jaymc, Wednesday, 16 October 2019 14:31 (four days ago) link

I wish people would stop treating Twitter as being representative of anything real

El Tomboto, Wednesday, 16 October 2019 14:36 (four days ago) link

OTM

"Liberals I hate read on Twitter" is not an actual political constituency.

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Wednesday, 16 October 2019 14:38 (four days ago) link

OK, so do you think my impression is off-base?

jaymc, Wednesday, 16 October 2019 14:39 (four days ago) link

I mean, I guess I count myself among this constituency -- I'm v. enthusiastic about AOC (and the Squad in general) but support Warren. That said, I'm not surprised by the endorsement.

jaymc, Wednesday, 16 October 2019 14:41 (four days ago) link

A lot of the ppl who "like" AOC, as with most Americans who like things, are short on details.

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 16 October 2019 14:42 (four days ago) link

Well, you'd know.

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 16 October 2019 14:45 (four days ago) link

jaymc, I think it largely comes down to who you follow.

I haven't seen anyone complaining about these endorsements, but I've seen a ton of people saying there's someone complaining about them.

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Wednesday, 16 October 2019 14:46 (four days ago) link

Here's one (which is obviously just one data point):

Sad to hear that most of the squad will be endorsing fucking Bernie. I hope Ayanna Pressley doesn't go in on this.

— Laura Bogart (@LDBogart) October 16, 2019

jaymc, Wednesday, 16 October 2019 14:49 (four days ago) link

It's worth nothing once again that the majority of Bernie backers don't "hate" Warren.

Simon H., Wednesday, 16 October 2019 14:51 (four days ago) link

FWIW, I don't hate Bernie, either. I'd be happy if he got the nomination.

jaymc, Wednesday, 16 October 2019 14:53 (four days ago) link

yeah if Warren gets the nom I'm sure they'll be rallying hard behind her

frogbs, Wednesday, 16 October 2019 14:54 (four days ago) link

Anyway, am I wrong that the Squad has a broader base of support than Bernie does? Or are they simply too "divisive" for their endorsement to have a positive effect for anyone other than Bernie?

jaymc, Wednesday, 16 October 2019 14:57 (four days ago) link

jaymc i don't think you're wrong, at least not anecdotally. one of the biggest in-the-tank-for-hillary people i know is a huge aoc fan

american bradass (BradNelson), Wednesday, 16 October 2019 14:59 (four days ago) link

I think it will have a positive effect, but maybe not enough to give him the boost he needs to win this thing.

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Wednesday, 16 October 2019 15:00 (four days ago) link

I suspect the number of Bernard Brothers who will be pissed if Warren gets the nom is roughly the same as the number of Squad fans who are mad that they endorsed Bernie.

I have no basis for this, but it seems like a good thing to say.

A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Wednesday, 16 October 2019 15:02 (four days ago) link

They have a big reach and base of support yes, but agreed, obviously not enough to swing anything (ultimately, its where the Biden votes go once he's out thats more important)

anvil, Wednesday, 16 October 2019 15:04 (four days ago) link

Lol, Biden's imminent exit from the race is the silliest point that keeps popping up on these threads.

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Wednesday, 16 October 2019 15:30 (four days ago) link

Biden's Imminent Exit has never popped up once on any of these threads!

anvil, Wednesday, 16 October 2019 15:33 (four days ago) link

Not true, although this may be the first time in the AOC thread

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Wednesday, 16 October 2019 15:34 (four days ago) link

But it isn't on this thread either!

anvil, Wednesday, 16 October 2019 15:35 (four days ago) link

Oh, I see, you're just being pedantic.

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Wednesday, 16 October 2019 15:36 (four days ago) link

I don't mean to be! I think there is an important distinction between "Biden will eventually drop out" and "Biden will be dropping out imminently"

For the record, i don't think Biden is going anywhere soon. Its obviously an opinion and I may be wrong, but I don't consider the distinction between the two to be pedantry, as I believe one instance to be likely and the other instance to be implausible

anvil, Wednesday, 16 October 2019 15:44 (four days ago) link

Not sure what's so likely about it at all though. I suspect that Biden will only drop if it is down to him and one other candidate, and it becomes clear he can't win. Yes, it's possible he'll crash and burn sooner, but I wouldn't bank on it.

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Wednesday, 16 October 2019 15:47 (four days ago) link

Biden is going to win

Seany's too Dyche to mention (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, 16 October 2019 15:48 (four days ago) link

Not sure what's so likely about it at all though. I suspect that Biden will only drop if it is down to him and one other candidate, and it becomes clear he can't win. Yes, it's possible he'll crash and burn sooner, but I wouldn't bank on it.

Well that may be true of course. I think his numbers are largely predicated on people thinking other people like him and that rests on him being a frontrunner, once he is no longer a frontrunner that edifice crumbles and his numbers tank.

But in terms of the thread(s) its a more general sense of relative frustration at being misunderstood, and thinking "am I really that bad at saying what I mean?". Has happened a few time today, but yes on this one in retrospect I should have used the word 'eventually' to try reduce ambiguity!

anvil, Wednesday, 16 October 2019 15:56 (four days ago) link

a biden win is a trump win

be goose, do crimes (||||||||), Wednesday, 16 October 2019 17:35 (four days ago) link

Oh we're onto the equations part of the thread now

When I am afraid, I put my toast in you (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 16 October 2019 17:39 (four days ago) link

have Biden's numbers ever gone up at any point in the last few months? seems like the more he does the less people actually like him

frogbs, Wednesday, 16 October 2019 17:45 (four days ago) link

Biden's numbers belong in the Dem primary thread!

president of deluded fruitcakes anonymous (silby), Wednesday, 16 October 2019 17:47 (four days ago) link

or the Biden thread

Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Wednesday, 16 October 2019 18:02 (four days ago) link

We should not be discussing Biden¨s numbers on this thread, but if we ARE discussing Biden's numbers, then there is a 538 article about them, because of course there is: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/elizabeth-warren-rise-hasnt-come-at-joe-biden-expense/

Frederik B, Wednesday, 16 October 2019 18:21 (four days ago) link

"don't reply all guys!"

/Replyall

When I am afraid, I put my toast in you (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 16 October 2019 18:28 (four days ago) link


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