Rolling 'this is sexist' thread

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I assume the dude is going to lose his job, right?

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Monday, 27 February 2012 21:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

jfc

flagp∞st (dayo), Monday, 27 February 2012 21:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

omg omg why did I read the comments why did I read the comments why did I read the comments

Gonjasufjanstephen O'Malley (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 27 February 2012 21:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

unless the comments are variants on "what a fucking douchebag" i don't think i want to know ...

sarahell, Monday, 27 February 2012 21:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

some of them are, but a lot of them are "well if she doesn't like it she shouldn't have posed in sexy clothes"

Gonjasufjanstephen O'Malley (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 27 February 2012 21:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

dag

Whiney G. Weingarten, Monday, 27 February 2012 22:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

uggghhh

sarahell, Monday, 27 February 2012 22:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

What's something that no one knows about you?

I have TV anxiety! I get nervous being on air, I fear sharks and eat peanut M@M's on a nightly basis.

Whiney G. Weingarten, Monday, 27 February 2012 22:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

thread title otm

Little GTFO (contenderizer), Monday, 27 February 2012 23:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

cuz it is

Little GTFO (contenderizer), Monday, 27 February 2012 23:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

jeez if she wants people to take her seriously why doesn't she dress like a pioneer?

Male Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Nutsack (Abbbottt), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 03:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

welllll to be fair the only thing I know about her is
a. she is a woman who races cars
b. there are lots of godaddy advertisements that suggest I can watch her shower if I sign up for a domain name or something?

iatee, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 03:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

I'm not defending these people btw, all local news people should be fired, everywhere

iatee, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 03:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

"I'm not defending these people, just their ideas"

unlistenable in philly (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 03:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

Whatever you think of her complaint about being referred to as sexy (while doing the GoDaddy ads), calling her a bitch for saying anything is some grade-A bullshit.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 03:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

I can't even imagine the cognitive skills and coordination it takes to drive a racecar!

Male Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Nutsack (Abbbottt), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 03:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

if you are willing to be part of a super bowl ad about your sexiness then yes is might become part of your narrative

iatee, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 03:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

it might

iatee, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 03:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

If you're a woman. And then you'll get called a bitch if you complain about people concentrating solely on that.

A Full Torgo Apparition (Phil D.), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 03:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

again I dont know anything about the drive cars really fast game I just know I see godaddy ads in times square w/ this woman that suggest I can see her naked

iatee, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 03:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

I don't know who any of these ppl are

dollar eye twinkling (admrl), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 03:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

• some asshole news anchor guy
• a woman who drives cars
• a woman news anchor
• an older news anchor guy

Male Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Nutsack (Abbbottt), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 03:44 (2 years ago) Permalink

TV!

dollar eye twinkling (admrl), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 03:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

Why do you people call newspeople "anchors"? It's funny

dollar eye twinkling (admrl), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 03:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

newscasters

dollar eye twinkling (admrl), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 03:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

If you're a woman.

is the answer to this:

if you are willing to be part of a super bowl ad about your sexiness then yes is might become part of your narrative

unlistenable in philly (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 04:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

in case anybody missed it, ty phil d.

unlistenable in philly (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 04:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

All you need to know about that "sportcaster" guy is right there on his head. He has smug, arrogant hair.

Aimless, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 04:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

The number of women responding with comments attacking Patrick or saying 'no big deal' is so fucking depressing.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 04:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

It's depressing, but not surprising.

Nicole, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 04:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

she probably lives in the suburbs too!

buzza, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 04:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

iatee is stepping his game up lately

Gonjasufjanstephen O'Malley (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 04:44 (2 years ago) Permalink

don't you have some friends you can go hang out with or something

iatee, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 04:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

Mordy, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 04:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

Whiney G. Weingarten, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 04:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

Rolling 'this is popcorn' thread

Mordy, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 04:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

bag is a more stylish move at this point

anyway, i understand why her "sexyness" has become a part of the narrative. i understand that she fed into it. i understand, at the same time, how such things snowball and how women are effectively punished (and sure, rewarded) for their supposed sexiness in ways that men just aren't. as a result of all that, i understand how frustrating and demeaning the whole thing must be for her at times.

what i don't get is why assholes like him are paid good money to talk about shit on the air.

Little GTFO (contenderizer), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 07:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

sincere question, cause i don't watch sports news: is this something male athletes have gotten asked anytime recently?

sarahell, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 07:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

The closest I can think of is David Beckham taking shit for seeming to be more about modeling than soccer, but that's about dedication to his craft, not a sexiness narrative in the same way.
So I'd say no.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 07:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

like there were some beefcake-y ads/fashion shots in the local paper (not sure if they were national ads, or just local ones), and at least one sexy-romantic one featuring that SF Giants pitcher after they won the World Series -- the guy that looks a little like Nirvana-era Dave Grohl. Dunno his name.

sarahell, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 07:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

Tim Lincecum, probably. He is popular with the ladies. And stoners.

He mostly just gets asked why his fastball has dropped 4mph over the last two seasons.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 07:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

"David Beckham sexiness narrative"

mac and me (Ówen P.), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 08:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

Jonathan Ross' Becks interview a few weeks back was all about the sexiness narrative iirc.

Also unknown as Zora (Surfing At Work), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 08:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

On another board I visit, someone posted this to a "Funny pictures" thread:

Sure, you can be critical of the "Myspace pose", but how does anyone think this is a good or funny way of doing that?

Tuomas, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 09:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

why is elmer fudd doing the deed here?

Big Mr. Guess U.S.A. Champion (crüt), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 09:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

it's duck season

Little GTFO (contenderizer), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 09:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

i suppose it's not that sexy is sometimes part of the narrative for attractive women athletes, it's that it's almost never not part of the narrative. beckham, i assume they focus on it sometimes but other times not at all.

i dunno how to even parse this dr. pepper thing. it seems like it's satirizing the "man food" approach like in those burger king ads or whatnot while still conveying the same message? those bk ads seemed self-parodying anyway so how do you clown a clown? the "it's not for women" approach only makes me more aware that diet sodas are considered unmanly and that objectively there's no difference between dr. pepper 10 and a tab or whatever in regards to soft-drink genderedness.

i don't how many layers of irony or mock irony you need to pack your message in but i'll willingly drink a diet soda w/out fear of developing an auxiliary vagina so that's probably too many unnecessary layers right there.

slugbuggy, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 09:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

why is elmer fudd doing the deed here?

― Big Mr. Guess U.S.A. Champion (crüt), Tuesday, February 28, 2012 4:13 AM (14 minutes ago) Bookmark

its an old gag where he fires the shotgun in daffy duck's face, and it spins his bill around to face the other side of his head

its a comment on the 'duckface' that young women make in photos

RudolfHitlerFtw (Hungry4Ass), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 09:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

Re: Dr. Pepper Ten

naus, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 11:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

why is elmer fudd doing the deed here?

― Big Mr. Guess U.S.A. Champion (crüt), Tuesday, February 28, 2012 4:13 AM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

it's duck season

― Little GTFO (contenderizer), Tuesday, February 28, 2012 4:14 AM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Rabbit season.

A Full Torgo Apparition (Phil D.), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 11:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

xp

Tuesday, 31 March 1998 12:00AM Be the first to comment

- Worthington has returned to television advertising with a new campaign that ditches comedian Harry Enfield in favour of 'real lads' exploits.

The commercial aims to make Worthington the 'lads beer for the 90s'. To achieve this Worthington has chosen a laddish creative treatment that pokes fun at men who engage in unladdish activities.

Created by agency WCRS, the ad start by posing a question about laddish behaviour. The narrator asks: 'why do lads always take the mickey?' In answering the question, the commercial then enters a surreal world where we see what would happen if lads didn't take the mickey: they would compliment each other on their appearance and, as a consequence, become interested in hand cream. This would have the disastrous result of smoothing the lads' palms to such a degree that their pint glasses slip straight through and smash on the floor.

The ad closes with the tag line "Worthington. It's a Man Thing'. The campaign was written by WCRS creatives Andy Brittain and Yu Kung and was director by Traktor.

According to WCRS account director Jonathan Rigby: "Our objective is clear - to make Worthington the lads beer brand for the 90s. The campaign marks a welcome return to classic beer advertising - simple, well observed and infectiously funny."

Sylv_ebanks (DJ Mencap), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 11:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

feel like the Yorkie ads might have 'worked', as much as they're cretinous, but Worthington just seems desperate and reaching

Sylv_ebanks (DJ Mencap), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 11:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

"Yorkie" sounds like such a girl thing though.

beachville, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 11:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

Is that part of the joke?

beachville, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 11:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

No. Don't know why they were called Yorkie though, because Yorkshiremen are all like tough and rugged, 'appen?

Charles Kennedy Jumped Up, He Called 'Oh No'. (Tom D.), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 11:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

"David Beckham sexiness narrative"

I'll do the libretto for this opera fyi

unlistenable in philly (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 14:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

Speaking of Danica Patrick...

Nicole, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 14:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

^^Was just coming to post that.

A Full Torgo Apparition (Phil D.), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 14:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

ha

asshole

wolf kabob (ENBB), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 14:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

Also the idea of a manly candy bar is hilarious to me and I've bought Yorkies specifically because of their stupid marketing campaign.

wolf kabob (ENBB), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 14:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

Which is probably what they wanted all along but whatever.

wolf kabob (ENBB), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 14:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

yorkies are pretty good but they could have used smaller gauge nail chunks, also motor oil that wasn't loaded with transfats

flagp∞st (dayo), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 14:44 (2 years ago) Permalink

the idea of a manly candy bar is hilarious to me

If you think that's stupid, try this...

Charles Kennedy Jumped Up, He Called 'Oh No'. (Tom D.), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 14:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

Are they still using that slogan?

Charles Kennedy Jumped Up, He Called 'Oh No'. (Tom D.), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 14:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

...

robbery by sudden snatching (DJP), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 14:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

I really don't understand society sometimes

robbery by sudden snatching (DJP), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 14:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

"You'll never put a better bit of butter on your wife"

^ old joke that will make no sense to anyone outside the UK

Charles Kennedy Jumped Up, He Called 'Oh No'. (Tom D.), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 14:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

Arr, that be Cuntry Loife buttr.

Mark G, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 15:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

Cuntry Crock

beachville, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 15:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

good thing they put pictures of flowers all over my man margarine now i am transexual

lag∞n, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 15:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

lag∞n, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 15:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

i think we need a thread of this stuff

lag∞n, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 15:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

".. and the ladies that love them!"

(soz)

Mark G, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 15:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

To be fair, those really only have one use.

(xpost)

stan this sick bunt (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 15:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

brands for MENS

lag∞n, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 15:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

we had the dockers thread didn't we

flagp∞st (dayo), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 15:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

marketing of masculinity

I approve of this manly spinoff tho

flagp∞st (dayo), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 15:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

i conceived of the brands for mens thread as specifically for products that are trying to convince men that theyre not fags for using them while being no different than the stuff girls like eg coke zero/diet coke is how i break it down to an extent

lag∞n, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 15:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

although diet coke does have more caffeine than coke zero, factoid

lag∞n, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 15:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

^^ both disgusting imo

Nicholas Pokémon (silby), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 15:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

I swear I started a thread about those Men kleenex once.

wolf kabob (ENBB), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 16:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

Oh I didn't but I posted about them here:
marketing of masculinity

They're hysterical. Slogan might as well have been: Because you're too old to still be using your sock.

wolf kabob (ENBB), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 16:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

or using some godawful hankerchief and putting it in your pocket full of snot

valleys of your mind (mh), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 16:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

pretty sure it's just for wanking

sarahell, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 20:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

real men just let the jizz dry and peel it off later, or maybe not at all

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 20:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

the layers of dried jizz make your dick look... aah nevermind

flagp∞st (dayo), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 20:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

cigar box

what's a goon to garbus (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 20:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

*shudders*

i think this is serious (elmo argonaut), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 20:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

TOO FAR GUYS, TOO FAR

wolf kabob (ENBB), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 00:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

http://penny-arcade.com/report/editorial-article/sexual-harassment-as-ethical-imperative-the-ugly-side-of-fighting-games

'this is sexist' ? they say it's part of the game uhuhuhu

Sébastien, Wednesday, 29 February 2012 14:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, there is a really stupid part of the gaming community that insists trash talk is normal and sometimes even necessary, and that anything goes.

riiiiiiight

valleys of your mind (mh), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 14:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

wtf at that, really

little clouds of citrus spritz as i peel (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 14:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

"necessary" !

Mark G, Wednesday, 29 February 2012 14:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

'this is sexist' ?

yes

Mordy, Wednesday, 29 February 2012 14:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

Kind of laughing at StarCraft 2 as a comparative point of positivity, in that there are still a bunch of morons who think launching into sexuality-based insults or racial slurs at the beginning of a game is funny. Not all that many, but it happens.

valleys of your mind (mh), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 14:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

I'm stumbling at the concept of a streaming internet show where you watch people play video games.

beachville, Wednesday, 29 February 2012 14:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

It's true that video games would not be the same w/out 14 year olds shouting homophobic, sexist, racist slurs at you while fragging your character.

They would be much better.

Mordy, Wednesday, 29 February 2012 14:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

the argument begins an hour and forty five minutes into the video

no and thank you

Vaseline MEN AMAZING JOURNEY (DJP), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 14:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

That article makes me want to go on a shooting spree.

Miranda “Super Yan” Pakozdi stepped in to say that the sexual harassment hurts the community, but she’s shushed and told to let the man speaking for her finish.

I mean what is this I don't even.

I've been playing a ton of the new Star Wars MMORPG, The Old Republic, and luckily haven't seen much sexist garbage on the general chat channels during the game. But on the forums? Ay-yi-yi.

A Full Torgo Apparition (Phil D.), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 14:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

also wow, this really makes me glad I never got super into the fighting game community

gamers should all go die in a fire so we can start over

Vaseline MEN AMAZING JOURNEY (DJP), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 14:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

I'm stumbling at the concept of a streaming internet show where you watch people play video games.

― beachville, Wednesday, February 29, 2012 9:17 AM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark

man you've never watched korean starcraft tv shows on youtube?

flagp∞st (dayo), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 14:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

possible challop: i think the problem is that the really serious/devoted gamers become so serious + devoted partially bc they have social interaction/interrelationship deficiencies. those deficiencies get carried into the gaming community where you have tons of mostly young men who don't know how to act appropriately towards others, and particularly towards women.

Mordy, Wednesday, 29 February 2012 14:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

that is not a challop at all, I mean didn't you play WoW for a while?

Vaseline MEN AMAZING JOURNEY (DJP), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 14:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

lol yeah. the challop is the conclusion i left off, which is where i said that gamers like to think that they're so enlightened compared to the cool students with whom they attend school. like, i think that myth is deeply embedded in the gaming community, and it's actually the total opposite bc of this phenomenon. actually, this might not be a challop here. more a challop on PA forums i'd bet.

Mordy, Wednesday, 29 February 2012 14:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

I watch SC2 commentary videos :(

Mordy, I think there are a lot of serious gamers (or professional, even) who are perfectly fine at personal interaction. It's dumbasses who normalize the negative interactions who screw up the system, and they're really typically a vocal minority in the fanbase.

I dunno if this is a challenging opinion or if the gaming community actually believes that stuff? I mean, the PA people really didn't react appropriately to some allegations of misogyny/triggering material but it seemed more like ignorance

valleys of your mind (mh), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 14:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

"If you're a woman. And then you'll get called a bitch if you complain about people concentrating solely on that."

this. i agree that it is sexist, but otoh shrug it off and laugh at it.

Nathalie (stevienixed), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 14:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

I think that in every community a vocal minority (especially one that is so vocal as the misanthropic gaming minority) requires an apathetic or even sympathetic silent majority to thrive.

Mordy, Wednesday, 29 February 2012 14:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

“For some guys, being themselves means making mildly lecherous comments or racial jokes. Now, a bunch of idiots are conflating and exaggerating this with actually being racist or sexist. That’s supremely fucking stupid, because they’re not even close to the same.”

I have one thing to say: "Roxanne Shanté" (Stevie D(eux)), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 14:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

smdh

valleys of your mind (mh), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 14:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

playing WoW with ostensibly adult people who:

- bragged about failing all of their classes and getting kicked out of school
- bragged about missing work and not calling in so they could play
- would leave in the middle of a raid to go to Taco Bell
- liked to type rape jokes in general chat
- liked to belittle anyone who made a mistake, no matter how minor and no matter whether they had ever made that mistake before
- were by and large massively proud of their blinding, overwhelming ignorance of EVERYTHING aside from the game

... all of that, and then realizing this was one of the FRIENDLIER gaming communities, really sucked a lot of the fun of gaming out of my life, which is why I'm now playing single-player games on my phone, PS3 and Vita rather than gearing up for the next WoW expansion pack or checking out The Old Republic.

Vaseline MEN AMAZING JOURNEY (DJP), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 14:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

- would leave in the middle of a raid to go to Taco Bell

I'm sorry, this is hilarious

valleys of your mind (mh), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 14:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

- would leave in the middle of a raid to go to Taco Bell

disgusting savages

Mordy, Wednesday, 29 February 2012 14:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

oh I'm not gonna lie, that WAS hilarious

The whole 25 person raid was sitting on Vent listening to this dude babble (he babbled a LOT, and also used to bug the shit out of the women in our guild) and something happened where someone had to go AFK and he said "okay I'm doing a run to the border, I'll be back in 5 minutes".

We all were sitting there going "... WHAT?", especially since he was gone for half an hour.

Vaseline MEN AMAZING JOURNEY (DJP), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 14:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

The Old Republic has been pretty good, I must say. I've been playing since launch in December and I think I've only had to ignore-list four or five people.

A Full Torgo Apparition (Phil D.), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 14:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

maybe he meant 'going to the border gave me runs'

flagp∞st (dayo), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 14:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

and he was playing on his desktop and not his laptop

flagp∞st (dayo), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 14:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

when he got back, he was talking about how much he loved Taco Bell but he really had to stop going there because he weighed close to 400 pounds, but sometimes he couldn't resist and just had to drop everything, ask his mom for some money, and make a run for the border

IIRC he was 24 or 25

Vaseline MEN AMAZING JOURNEY (DJP), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 14:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

Urgh, that must be a horrible experience. Then again, the knitting community isn't that great either (in my country). :-( As a result I rarely socialize.

Nathalie (stevienixed), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 15:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

you forget that ilx is actually one of the more decent communities until you bump up against this idiocy

little clouds of citrus spritz as i peel (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 15:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

You might want to consider not reading any of the comments on that Craig Bannister article, not that you would have anyway.

drawn to them like a moth toward a spanakopita (Laurel), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 15:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

My new WoW guild are alright, but there's a few subjects that I cringe whenever they come up - it just seems that unless a group is actually set up demographically to avoid sexism / racism / homophobia, there's no reason to expect them to avoid it. But even then if you call them on it they'll mostly be embarrassed or cut it out or at least work your dislike into the narrative - I've not seen the hateful "f u this is our right we will make our stand here" stuff from that thread. The only other place I've really seen it anywhere (that I can think of) is the "Gay just means lame, that's all, jeez granddad", which doesn't really seem to have turned up that much on this side of the Atlantic.

Disclaimer: I am a straight white male, so obviously I am wearing a +12 suit of pillows in all of this.

Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 29 February 2012 15:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

one of the most interesting things I watched happen was seeing my gay coworker join my WoW guild and seeing him shortly afterward start using "gay" to mean stupid, something he never did before

it was especially jarring seeing this coming from a 40+ year old

Vaseline MEN AMAZING JOURNEY (DJP), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 15:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

it's kind of hilarious to contrast the dramatic environment that the game designers created vs. the regressed man-children who play the game and turn the austere fantasy world into a bunch of orcs calling each other "fag" every 2 seconds

Big Mr. Guess U.S.A. Champion (crüt), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 17:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

nb I've never actually played WoW I just imagine that's what it's like based on my other online gaming experiences

Big Mr. Guess U.S.A. Champion (crüt), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 17:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

depending on the server, it can get like that

Vaseline MEN AMAZING JOURNEY (DJP), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 17:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

they should invent a new character that you can play that's called a fag and make it the most powerful character just to throw everyone off

iatee, Wednesday, 29 February 2012 17:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

well, they are adding cute little panda monks in the next expansion

Vaseline MEN AMAZING JOURNEY (DJP), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 17:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

they should invent a new character that you can play that's called a fag and make it the most powerful character just to throw everyone off

too close to reality

mac and me (Ówen P.), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 18:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

Urgh, that must be a horrible experience. Then again, the knitting community isn't that great either (in my country). :-( As a result I rarely socialize.

:O

Nath, how so??

cashmere tears-soaker (Abbbottt), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 19:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

the only fabric they use is human skin

Mordy, Wednesday, 29 February 2012 19:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

if knitting in belgium is anything like playing WoW with glutton homophones, man idk

goole, Wednesday, 29 February 2012 19:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

Every knitting group I've been a part of has been almost entirely arty feminists (men & women alike), which means sometimes having to pretend their pattern for a felted vibrator cozy is some kind of high-concept art piece, but that's really as "bad" as it gets.

cashmere tears-soaker (Abbbottt), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 19:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

is a vibrator cozy really that functional, or is it just an aesthetic nicety to put on a vibrator?

valleys of your mind (mh), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 19:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

It seriously was some convoluted concept piece that was supposed to be a commentary on the TSA.

cashmere tears-soaker (Abbbottt), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 19:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

haha what

i think this is serious (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 19:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

My sorta-arty/pretty-geeky feminist best friend used to knit Diva Cup cozies!

I have one thing to say: "Roxanne Shanté" (Stevie D(eux)), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 19:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

I know I love ensconcing things in cabled wool.

cashmere tears-soaker (Abbbottt), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 19:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

had never heard of the diva cup [glow of newly acquired wisdom]

Little GTFO (contenderizer), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 19:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

What, where have you been??? We've done menstrual alternatives like 4 times!

drawn to them like a moth toward a spanakopita (Laurel), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 19:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

lolling at the name "diva cup"

Vaseline MEN AMAZING JOURNEY (DJP), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 19:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

RIP Whitney

oh wait

Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 19:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

i took a vacation

Little GTFO (contenderizer), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 19:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

menstruation vacation

cashmere tears-soaker (Abbbottt), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 19:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

a menstruation vacation I say

cashmere tears-soaker (Abbbottt), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 19:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

ploppawheelie V (k3vin k.), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 19:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

mooncup over my hammy

puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 19:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

I haven't read this thread yet but are you all talking about vid games because of the whole streetfighter controversy

puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 19:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

Kind of laughing at StarCraft 2 as a comparative point of positivity, in that there are still a bunch of morons who think launching into sexuality-based insults or racial slurs at the beginning of a game is funny. Not all that many, but it happens.

― valleys of your mind (mh), Wednesday, February 29, 2012 9:16 AM (5 hours ago)

sorry to derail, but i just have to come back to this real quick. SC2 is light-years ahead of every other gaming community that i've had any experience with (which admittedly is mostly only through brief encounters and friends who have been into other games.) yes, there are still plenty of morons on battle.net, of course, but as far as the dominant culture of the game goes, it is almost mind-boggling how much better the SC2 community is--politeness is ingrained into the standard interactions between players ("glhf", "gg"), and while its not always practiced, it is really surprising how often it is. there has been major blowback from the community every single time someone in the spotlight has made any kind of racist or misogynistic remark, and overall the SC2 community is very self-conscious about how they come across to outsiders and they're very self-aware of the general perception of gaming communities. there's this whole idea that has taken root within SC2 that they are the ones that can really grow "eSports" by being more mature, presentable, professional, etc. i think this is largely due to the intense strategic difficulty of the game keeping the bar for entry somewhat high combined with the influence of certain community figures.

karl...arlk...rlka...lkar..., Wednesday, 29 February 2012 19:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

starcraft is actually brought up in this srticle

http://kotaku.com/5889066/competitive-gamers-inflammatory-comments-spark-sexism-debate

This is a community that's, you know, 15 or 20 years old, and the sexual harassment is part of a culture, and if you remove that from the fighting game community, it's not the fighting game community—it's StarCraft. There's nothing wrong with StarCraft if you enjoy it, and there's nothing wrong with anything about eSports, but why would you want just one flavor of ice cream, you know? There's eSports for people who like eSports, and there's fighting games for people who like spicy food and like to have fun. There's no reason to turn them into the same thing, you know?

Later, when asked about whether shouting "Rape that bitch!" at a match is acceptable behavior, Bakhtanians replied, "Look, man. What is unacceptable about that? There's nothing unacceptable about that. These are people, we're in America, man, this isn't North Korea. We can say what we want. People get emotional."

puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 19:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

It's called "diva cup" now? What happened to "mooncup"?

Tuomas, Wednesday, 29 February 2012 19:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

huh interesting

what is glhf?

xp

goole, Wednesday, 29 February 2012 19:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

btw I thought up mooncup over my hammy yesterday thank you for letting me post it

puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 19:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

good luck have fun

Vaseline MEN AMAZING JOURNEY (DJP), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 19:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

America!

i think this is serious (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 19:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

I don't think I've ever heard "diva cup" used in Finland (seriously, what does it have to do with divas?), everyone I know says "mooncup" or plain ol' "menstruation cup".

Tuomas, Wednesday, 29 February 2012 19:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

think diva cup is a brand

Nicholas Pokémon (silby), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 19:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

the branding being something like "you are embracing your powerful womanhood by menstruating into a cup"

Nicholas Pokémon (silby), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 19:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

let's all agree: blood cup

Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 19:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

Later, when asked about whether shouting "Rape that bitch!" at a match is acceptable behavior, Bakhtanians replied, "Look, man. What is unacceptable about that? There's nothing unacceptable about that. These are people, we're in America, man, this isn't North Korea. We can say what we want. People get emotional."

this is the part that just blew my mind. dude needs such a huge punch in the balls. you can have a tough, aggressive, rough-and-tumble gaming culture without insisting on the necessity of constant sexual and racial harassment.

Little GTFO (contenderizer), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 19:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

star craft: blood cup war

flagp∞st (dayo), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 19:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

i mean, wtf? does capcom employ this guy?

Little GTFO (contenderizer), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 19:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

lol, no

karl...arlk...rlka...lkar..., Wednesday, 29 February 2012 19:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

he's their director of HR

Vaseline MEN AMAZING JOURNEY (DJP), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 19:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

plus okay, now that you guys mention it, i do remember earlier discussions of the "mooncup". now i have to learn a new something new today.

Little GTFO (contenderizer), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 19:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

gotta love the "free speech means i can be an abusive asshole" line of reasoning, it may be old but man its super effective at soothing the irritation of acknowledging that other people exist

i think this is serious (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 19:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

Oh, most certainly, karl. I was just making the point that even in a community that great, there are still some bizarre outliers. They're not the ones who are doing well, but there's still the perception from some idiots that saying noxious bullshit is OK in online gaming.

It's interesting that SC2 is also one of the few games where people communicate in a way that is later replayable. I think fps gamers, if they're communicating, tend to use voice communication, as do fighting game people. SC2 is mostly people typing at each other, and recorded game files are what most youtube commentators are using. If you're being a racist, homophobic dick, then everyone is going to see it and you're going to get called out.

valleys of your mind (mh), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 20:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

free speech is great because it actually inoculates us against all criticism for anything we ever say! those founding fathers thought of everything! god bless america.

i think this is serious (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 20:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

We each of us have the freedom to be a total prick and not get arrested for it! But you still wind up being a total prick, so, meh.

Aimless, Wednesday, 29 February 2012 20:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

I hate him so much that it can't be healthy.

Nicole, Wednesday, 29 February 2012 21:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

I don't think you can be interested in human rights OR be a pragmatist and think that funding contraception doesn't make sense. Because even if you don't think that sex is a basic human right that everyone should be able to enjoy, then you have to at least acknowledge that people will have sex, even if you think they shouldn't, and costs will be reduced in the system overall if we provide people with contraception.

I think Limbaugh would like to consider himself a pragmatist, but his huge sexism and hatred of poor people is getting in the way

valleys of your mind (mh), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 22:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

haha he's nowhere near a pragmatist

iatee, Wednesday, 29 February 2012 22:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

well, no shit

valleys of your mind (mh), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 22:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

that brand of conservatism is like 25% pragmatist, 75% really mean Archie Bunker

valleys of your mind (mh), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 22:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

I don't think there's any brand of conservatism that has higher than 1% pragmatism at this point

iatee, Wednesday, 29 February 2012 22:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

true, that

valleys of your mind (mh), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 22:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

don't understand how anyone can listen to limbaugh and not quickly come to understand that the extreme social conservatives he represents have no ideology, not even a coherent point of view. limbaugh's entire political agenda = the undisguised hated of anyone he perceives as "different". hatred of women, hatred of nonwhites, hatred of liberals, hatred of the poor and weak, hatred of the educated, hatred as an end in itself.

Little GTFO (contenderizer), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 22:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

love of Viagra, Oxycontin and money, tho

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 22:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

I don't think there's any brand of conservatism that has higher than 1% pragmatism at this point

― iatee, Wednesday, February 29, 2012 2:06 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

disagree. i think the hardcore, ideologically-committed free enterprise/small government conservatives tend to be extremely pragmatic, perhaps especially in their cynical exploitation of easily-led social conservatives.

Little GTFO (contenderizer), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 22:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

From the not sayin just sayin dept, there was a third panel to Tuomas' comic that put it in slightly more context:

pplains, Wednesday, 29 February 2012 22:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

my god what happened to this thread, all u gamers r savage as far as im concerned

lag∞n, Wednesday, 29 February 2012 22:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

do you think Lana del Rey has a diva cup?

sarahell, Wednesday, 29 February 2012 22:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

putting in my diva cup
checking to see what's up
video games

sarahell, Wednesday, 29 February 2012 22:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

Omg inappropriately loud IRL lol

I have one thing to say: "Roxanne Shanté" (Stevie D(eux)), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 23:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

A+ sarahell

Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 29 February 2012 23:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

seconded

drop these whiners on a island (Surviver style) (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 1 March 2012 05:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

feel like that post was trying hard for critical acclaim and still made it there

valleys of your mind (mh), Thursday, 1 March 2012 15:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

chinese state run media doesn't fail to disappoint

http://english.people.com.cn/90882/7750078.html
http://life.globaltimes.cn/entertainment/2010-08/562923.html

flagp∞st (dayo), Thursday, 8 March 2012 12:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

first link = I didn't know heave ho was working in china now

Big Mr. Guess U.S.A. Champion (crüt), Thursday, 8 March 2012 13:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

The headlines for other articles are killing me. Maybe Fox is fair and balanced after all.

pplains, Thursday, 8 March 2012 15:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

saw a dude today walking with a girl, dude's t-shirt said "COOL STORY, BABE. now go make me a sandwich."

dude was def not a nerd or frat bro either, just looked vaguely 'hip'

flagp∞st (dayo), Sunday, 11 March 2012 20:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

has the GIVE IT TO YOUR OLD LADY TO WASH pants tag not been brought up here?

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Sunday, 11 March 2012 20:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

public displays of disdain are a measure of one's coolness

Aimless, Sunday, 11 March 2012 20:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

^ undeniably

but holy fig @ those washing instructions

Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Sunday, 11 March 2012 20:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

I'm sure mothers up and down the land found that hilarious.

Chewshabadoo, Sunday, 11 March 2012 21:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

They're just trying to make lonely single men cry. ;_;

Aimless, Sunday, 11 March 2012 21:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

(hug) but srsly wash your own pants

Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Sunday, 11 March 2012 21:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

has the GIVE IT TO YOUR OLD LADY TO WASH pants tag not been brought up here?

yes, it has.

beachville, Sunday, 11 March 2012 22:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

brands for MENS

beachville, Sunday, 11 March 2012 22:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/03/11/christian-rock-band-preaches-hate-of-lgbt-community-during-school-assembly-tells-girls-to-be-submissive-to-husbands/

sexist...and homophobic...and stupid....and pls kill them in horrible accident.

Bo Jackson Overdrive, Monday, 12 March 2012 05:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

rabbit season

Spleen of Hearts (kingfish), Monday, 12 March 2012 05:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

kill them all; let god sort them out

Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Monday, 12 March 2012 05:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

"gays don't live past age 42": I thought this was established fact though it is rude to rub it in

an elk hunt (Ówen P.), Monday, 12 March 2012 05:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

ten years longer than jesus iirc

Wesley Crusher: Teenage F#ck Machine (forksclovetofu), Monday, 12 March 2012 12:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

jesus was hella into prostitutes tho

Bo Jackson Overdrive, Monday, 12 March 2012 12:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

and has said that gay men molest an average of 117 children “before they get caught,”

show yr work please, homophobic, hateful asshole

stan this sick bunt (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 12 March 2012 13:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

dude was def not a nerd or frat bro either, just looked vaguely 'hip'

oh in that case, dude was just trying to be ironic.

(see you guys in the "this is hipsterist" thread!)

pplains, Monday, 12 March 2012 21:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

xpost, even if that was true, that would be an insane amount of molesting

Kenneth Toilethole (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, 12 March 2012 21:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

what if it's the same 117 kids

thuggish ruggish Brahms (DJP), Monday, 12 March 2012 21:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

oh in that case, dude was just trying to be ironic.

(see you guys in the "this is hipsterist" thread!)

― pplains, Monday, March 12, 2012 5:03 PM (34 minutes ago) Bookmark

he wasn't a hipster either! that's why I just said hip and not hipster. he was the kind of guy who probably thinks that growing thin sideburns is cool but a soul patch/goatee is not.

flagp∞st (dayo), Monday, 12 March 2012 21:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

story is gone now...?

the sir edmund hillary of sitting through pauly shore films (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 12 March 2012 21:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

I can't load addictinginfo.org at all?

drawn to them like a moth toward a spanakopita (Laurel), Monday, 12 March 2012 21:44 (2 years ago) Permalink

show yr work please, homophobic, hateful asshole

Bradlee's one gay friend has molested: 0 kids
Local Annandale pedophile molested: 233 kids
Actually works out to 116.5 kids WTF Bradlee

an elk hunt (Ówen P.), Monday, 12 March 2012 21:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

story is gone now...?

― the sir edmund hillary of sitting through pauly shore films (Shakey Mo Collier), 12. maaliskuuta 2012 23:43 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I can't load addictinginfo.org at all?

― drawn to them like a moth toward a spanakopita (Laurel), 12. maaliskuuta 2012 23:44 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Works fine with me.

Tuomas, Tuesday, 13 March 2012 09:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

Here's the news story, if you can't access the site:

Christian Rock Band Preaches Hate Of LGBT Community During School Assembly, Tells Girls To Be Submissive To Husbands
March 11, 2012
By Stephen D. Foster Jr.

When Dunkerton High School in Iowa invited a Christian rock band called Junkyard Prophet to perform during a school assembly this past Thursday, they never expected to get a hate filled sermon as part of the deal. But that’s exactly what happened.

According to the Lacrosse Tribune, the message was supposed “to be about bullying and making good choices,” such as being non-violent and against drugs and alcohol. “Instead, junior and senior high students at Dunkerton High School and faculty members said they were assaulted by the group’s extreme opinions on homosexuality and images of aborted fetuses,” along with messages against strong independent women.

After the band performed their music, they separated the boys, girls, and faculty in the building, which should have been an immediate red flag. According to witnesses, the band talked to the boys about the band’s Ten Commandments and talked about musicians that have died of drug overdose. The discussion with the girls was much different. The band told them “to save themselves for their husbands and assume a submissive role in the household. The leader in that effort also forced the young ladies to chant a manta of sorts about remaining pure” and would not allow any of them to leave the room.

One parent, Jennifer Littlefield, told the Tribune about a phone call she received from her daughter after the assembly. “They told my daughter, the girls, that they were going to have mud on their wedding dresses if they weren’t virgins. I couldn’t even understand her, she was crying so hard. They told these kids that anyone who was gay was going to die at the age of 42. It just blows me away that no one stopped this.”

According to LGBTQ Nation,”the band is part of the “You Can Run But You Cannot Hide International” Christian youth ministry founded by Bradlee Dean. Dean has advocated for imprisonment of gays and lesbians, and has said that gay men molest an average of 117 children “before they get caught,” and that Muslim nations that execute gays are more moral than American Christians.”

At the end of the day, Superintendent Jim Stanton told the students that the band doesn’t represent the beliefs of the administration and that the school is tolerant of those who are different and that diversity is celebrated in the school. But that doesn’t excuse the inaction of the school staff. They never should have allowed the students to be separated into groups and away from faculty members in the first place. It shows a complete lack of responsibility. And the very fact that they allowed a Christian band with dubious ties to a hate group to perform in front of students is disturbing. The problem is that the damage has already been done. Undoubtedly there are students that completely agree with what the band had to say, and now feel inspired to begin bullying others who don’t believe as they do. What this band did, is indoctrinate students with a message of hate. Clearly, this band holds the same beliefs as many in the Republican Party.

This is precisely why religion should remain outside of school. Though school officials expected a general message of ’don’t do drugs and don’t be violent,’ the current wave of hatred spreading throughout the Christian organizations should have prompted school administrators to research the band’s associations. The school paid $1,500 for the band to perform. That’s tax payer dollars, folks. Tax dollars paid to a religiously affiliated group. That sounds very much like a violation of the religious freedom of students to me. The school didn’t have to invite this band. They could have hired a non-religious band to perform and stress the positive anti-drugs, anti-violence message the school had intended in the first place. Heck, they could have just delivered the message themselves. But they didn’t. They chose a religiously affiliated band with ties to a Christian hate group. This is why parents should bring lawsuits to prevent similar incidents from occurring in the future. This kind of hate speech should not be tolerated in our schools.

Tuomas, Tuesday, 13 March 2012 09:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

Whoa, my mom was telling me about that over the weekend! wtf, school administrators

valleys of your mind (mh), Tuesday, 13 March 2012 13:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

If people could just not have sex in ways I approve of this wouldn't happen!

mh, Tuesday, 13 March 2012 15:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

oh yeah and it's all the woman's fault for this unapproved sex

mh, Tuesday, 13 March 2012 15:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

I like that he actually referred to it as "the sex."

drawn to them like a moth toward a spanakopita (Laurel), Tuesday, 13 March 2012 15:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

DON'T BE HAVING THE SEX

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 13 March 2012 15:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

bradlee dean is a minor right wing political star in mn, with a little bit of liberal internet infamy because TPM 'discovered' him in the course of covering michelle bachmann

goole, Tuesday, 13 March 2012 15:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

I WOULD MAKE THE SEX WITH ALL THIS GIRLS... IF THEY WERE IRRESPONSIBLE, THAT IS

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 13 March 2012 15:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

I like how "responsible" correlates to "no sex" for women. Can we get a ruling on what man responsibility looks like?

mh, Tuesday, 13 March 2012 15:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

you can distill it even further - "responsible" means "not using birth control"

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 13 March 2012 15:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

pdate: WECT-TV reports one of the commissioners who voted to reject the funds, Democrat Jonathan Barfield, expressed his regret on Facebook hours after the commission meeting.

“I’m getting a good lesson from my wife right this minute on the error of my vote,” he reportedly wrote.

“I just interviewed with WECT as I cited the error of my vote. I don’t have the right to choose for any woman,” Barfield went on, according to the station. “If you watch the tape of the meeting you’ll get a better sense of the discussion. Bottom line we should have accepted the money.”

Just marveling at the break between what came out of this man's mouth and the real world that he lives in, even his WIFE lives in, and how unacceptable his stated ideas are. It really is like these men are living & talking in a vacuum.

drawn to them like a moth toward a spanakopita (Laurel), Tuesday, 13 March 2012 15:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

megalol @ the "update" and the commissioner regretting his vote

the sir edmund hillary of sitting through pauly shore films (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 13 March 2012 15:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

Barfield: "I'm sorry I'm a fucking idiot. That's just how I was raised."

Carlos Pollomar (WmC), Tuesday, 13 March 2012 16:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

How long before women everywhere go absolutely Lysistrata until this shit stops?

butvi wouls (Phil D.), Tuesday, 13 March 2012 16:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

People do that, they talk about what is right for people to do and speak in platitudes and there's absolutely no connection to the way anyone lives outside of some real "moral" crazies. The kind of crazy branch of my dad's side of the family who was churchy is kind of obviously this way. They're all hucksters or constantly broke and talking about how "the lord will provide" or having kids at the least opportune times.

There are women who pull this same shit, but I'd like to think it's harder to deny because it's more of a day-to-day reality

mh, Tuesday, 13 March 2012 16:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

It's like, does he ever tell his wife what OTHER things he has voted on, to get his legislative body to a place where this option to refusing family planning funds is even a supportable question? Did she just not notice that he was this kind of asshole all along?

drawn to them like a moth toward a spanakopita (Laurel), Tuesday, 13 March 2012 16:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

I wonder how many kids he has, being one of those "abstinence guys"

mh, Tuesday, 13 March 2012 16:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

This has to correlate directly with the wave of male commentators led by Limbaugh who, in recent weeks, pretty much showed that they have no idea how female hormonal birth control works. I can just imagine him going home:

M: "I can't believe we almost accepted funds for that birth control stuff! It seems horrible."
W: "Dude that is what I take every day"
M: "Every day?!? But we haven't had sex for weeks!"
W: "..."

mh, Tuesday, 13 March 2012 16:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

well tbh I can't ever recall birth control (like for adults) being a hot button ish for anyone except Catholics? like I think in general this no pills 4 u hussy is some thing pretty novel for most of the right; I could see that guys wife being a little surprised to hear that his politics had suddenly shifted on an issue that had for many been sorted some time ago

xp lols

catbus otm (gbx), Tuesday, 13 March 2012 16:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

It's not even a hot-button issue for Catholics. 98% of Catholic women have used bc.

kate78, Tuesday, 13 March 2012 16:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, I thought there was just a consensus that contraception exists, everyone uses it, we're just not gonna talk about any dogmatic problems that might concern. Maybe it's the controversy over 'abortion pills' that has muddied the waters.

windborne grey frogs (dowd), Tuesday, 13 March 2012 16:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

the controversy isn't birth control itself, it's the use of taxpayer dollars to pay for birth control.

the sir edmund hillary of sitting through pauly shore films (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 13 March 2012 16:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

Uh that's the publicly stated reason, but I think it's manifestly clear at this point that the real problem with birth control existing at all is women having sex. Like that guy I quoted actually said: it's responsible for women not to have sex. Any sex. That is what we should all be working toward.

drawn to them like a moth toward a spanakopita (Laurel), Tuesday, 13 March 2012 16:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

yep.

kate78, Tuesday, 13 March 2012 16:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

'Slut' is a different insult from 'tax leech', though it's probably confusing to disentangle people who genuinely only have a problem with the latter from those throwing around the former. The rhetoric framing the issue has definitely been dominated by the misogynistic rather that the fiscal.

windborne grey frogs (dowd), Tuesday, 13 March 2012 16:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

I mean, the arguments may start with "I don't want my tax money going to..." but they generally seem to end in the "slutty college girl" area.

windborne grey frogs (dowd), Tuesday, 13 March 2012 16:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

SO MANY UNRULY VAGINAS

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 13 March 2012 16:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

so this: http://b0nermakersinthepelot0n.tumblr.com/

google proof'd btw. basically a riff on another blog called "b4ngable dudes in pr0 cycling" that has actual writing on it and isn't just a WS thread of ladies that race. it's just.....boner makers??? so needlessly crass and weird and always already about some guys dick and not the pretty, fast bikin chicks he purports to admire

anyway birth control

catbus otm (gbx), Tuesday, 13 March 2012 16:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

Ooh, interesting, gb. The url is obnoxious to me. But the pics, with some exceptions, are mostly just of women with muscles riding bikes? There are some cleavage shots of actual athletes doing athletics in low-cut sports bras or w/e but mostly it's people hunched over bikes with big helmets on, wearing regulation gear. Iirc the dude blog this is "based" on is written by a friend of yours? It was...lurid. Quite. But amusing. I think this one is actually cleaner!

drawn to them like a moth toward a spanakopita (Laurel), Tuesday, 13 March 2012 16:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

it totally is! and is, as you point out, just admiration for the tuff chix of cycling, hardly salacious. AND YET: let's make our boners a crucial part of the enterprise anyway

and yeah a friend of mine is behind the other one. not my cup of tea a lot of the time but it's panned out well for her as a thing so I'm cool with it

catbus otm (gbx), Tuesday, 13 March 2012 16:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

I mean, the arguments may start with "I don't want my tax money going to..." but they generally seem to end in the "slutty college girl" area.

no question this is what's going on. just pointing out the actual, legislative actions that have ignited these recent flare-ups. Like, yes there is a consensus that contraception exists, that everyone uses it, and that dogma doesn't really matter to most people - but introducing this issue as one of the public facilitating "sluttiness" subsequently allows all these less, shall we say, charitable concerns to come out.

the sir edmund hillary of sitting through pauly shore films (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 13 March 2012 16:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

cuz everyone hates sluts, right? I ain't payin my taxes for no sluts!

the sir edmund hillary of sitting through pauly shore films (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 13 March 2012 16:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

it also feeds directly into the "hardworking, upstanding Americans vs. lazy, amoral leeches" narrative that the right sustains itself on

the sir edmund hillary of sitting through pauly shore films (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 13 March 2012 16:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

*grainy b&w slow-mo of obama*

President Obama.....

wants to use YOUR money....

to pay YOUR daughter.....

to have sexual intercourse.

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 13 March 2012 16:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

well right as well as serving as another cudgel for banging on about GOVT HEALTHCARE

Xp

catbus otm (gbx), Tuesday, 13 March 2012 16:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

To gbx: Agreed about the primacy of men's boners in every discussion about women of any kind, doing anything.* You are otm.

* Up to and including: Wearing leggings. Grocery shopping. Riding bikes. Drinking beers. Having breasts. Having ideas. Going out in public at all. Using birth control. Reading books. Writing books. Smiling at you. Not smiling at you. Eating salad. Drinking water. Etc.

drawn to them like a moth toward a spanakopita (Laurel), Tuesday, 13 March 2012 16:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

*grainy b&w slow-mo of obama*

President Obama.....

wants to use YOUR money....

to pay YOUR daughter.....

to have sexual intercourse.

left out the 70spimp.jpg

the sir edmund hillary of sitting through pauly shore films (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 13 March 2012 16:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

I haven't been keeping up here so may have been posted but ;,lniougtgcxyrxkmnlpp:

http://jezebel.com/5893011/law-will-allow-employers-to-fire-women-for-using-whore-pills

wolf kabob (ENBB), Thursday, 15 March 2012 00:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

OMFG

catbus otm (gbx), Thursday, 15 March 2012 05:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

Further, Lesko states, with a straight face, that this bill is necessary because "we live in America; we don't live in the Soviet Union."

Ah, yes, the Soviet Union. The sort of place where a woman might think about getting birth control through an insurance plan to which she contributes premiums without having to show her boss her prescription in order to prove that she wasn't using it to not get pregnant. The Soviet Union. A hellscape where women don't run the risk of losing their jobs over their sexual practices. What a horrible, awful place where herds of sluts run wild like feral ponies, humping everything in sight. The nightmare of unwilling motherhood evaded is a constant spectre in The Motherland.

the kids of boris midney high (get bent), Thursday, 15 March 2012 06:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

I don't know if this is the best thread to post this in, or if it has already been discussed elsewhere:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/mar/13/woman-retracted-rape-claim-husband

I am at a loss to understand what anyone involved in the prosecution thought would be gained from this case, and how the judges have managed to uphold the conviction.

AlanSmithee, Thursday, 15 March 2012 08:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

That's horrifying. I've never heard anything like it.

Une semaine de Bunty (ShariVari), Thursday, 15 March 2012 08:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

yikes

flagp∞st (dayo), Thursday, 15 March 2012 12:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

china state-run media missing the point oh so grandly: http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90785/7752064.html

http://english.people.com.cn/90001/90782/90875/6789393.html

flagp∞st (dayo), Thursday, 15 March 2012 12:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

Wisconsin is the new Arizona!

By now, most people have heard of the Wisconsin GOP’s efforts to label single parenthood as a form of child abuse. There’s no basis in the claim, of course, and is simply another way to shame women (who comprise the majority of single parents) for not existing within a narrow and rigid social structure. A new wrinkle has surfaced as the bills’ co-sponsor, Representative Don Pridemore (R-Heartless Scumbag) has gone on the record as opposing divorce even in the event of a abusive spouse.

So if you are a woman regularly being beaten by your husband, you are a bad mother if you seek a divorce.

“If they can refind those reasons and get back to why they got married in the first place it might help,” said Representative Don Pridemore.

butvi wouls (Phil D.), Thursday, 15 March 2012 13:44 (2 years ago) Permalink

Also, Republicans get pissy about renewing Violence Against Women Act why because it would now cover same-sex couples and illegal immigrants.

butvi wouls (Phil D.), Thursday, 15 March 2012 16:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

shit is getting weird

flag post sitta (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 15 March 2012 16:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

very weird. strange time to be an american. the stuff that's come out of the woodwork over the course of the last four years, from wisconsin's war on collective bargaining to arizona and the south's war on immigrants and women, has been really shocking to me. perhaps that's testament to nothing but my own naivete.

Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Thursday, 15 March 2012 17:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

repubs probably found out that the Violence Against Women Act did not actually promote violence against women, xpost

kate78, Thursday, 15 March 2012 17:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

Texas is The New Wisconsin?

Perry wrote a letter to President Obama earlier this month accusing his administration of "mandating which health providers the state of Texas must use" in order to "continue to support abortion providers like Planned Parenthood." He vowed to continue the Women's Health Program in Texas without Planned Parenthood and without federal money, although he has yet to outline how his state will come up with money.

A. Toll Roads. Lots and lots of toll roads.
B. Perry can write?

Mike Love Costume Jewelry on Etsy (C. Grisso/McCain), Friday, 16 March 2012 18:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

http://blogs.houstonpress.com/rocks/2012/03/music_women_we_love_2012.php

this is much lower on the sexism totem pole but still

thuggish ruggish Brahms (DJP), Friday, 16 March 2012 18:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

^^That. Katy Perry came to town last summer, so they did a top ten of the best boobs in rock.

Mike Love Costume Jewelry on Etsy (C. Grisso/McCain), Friday, 16 March 2012 18:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

hahaha wait really? omfg facepalm for days

thuggish ruggish Brahms (DJP), Friday, 16 March 2012 18:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

did each woman account for two or did they specify?

Wesley Crusher: Teenage F#ck Machine (forksclovetofu), Friday, 16 March 2012 18:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

http://gazingmales.tumblr.com/ should be notified forthwith

s.clover, Friday, 16 March 2012 18:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

[x-post] Yes, they counted for two. (Link nsfw, and also more tongue-in-cheek than I remember. Looks like it was written by a woman too.)

Mike Love Costume Jewelry on Etsy (C. Grisso/McCain), Friday, 16 March 2012 18:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

"And somehow we get the feeling that Katy Perry and her 32DD partners in crime are only getting started, and the worst - or best, depending on your perspective - is yet to come."

intention aside, this is shitty writing.

Wesley Crusher: Teenage F#ck Machine (forksclovetofu), Friday, 16 March 2012 18:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

Shitty research too-K.Perry is a c-cup.

Mike Love Costume Jewelry on Etsy (C. Grisso/McCain), Friday, 16 March 2012 18:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

eh, it's crappy in a perfectly ordinary and unremarkable way. see worse all the time.

Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Friday, 16 March 2012 18:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

"this is much lower on the sexism totem pole but still"

i'm not sure why that's sexist? women are marginalized in music enough that any attempt to spotlight female artists should be lauded, no? like, i get the concern over treating them like some kind of special species of musician ('ladies' as some distinct category from 'general musician'), but i doubt that's the intention here?

Mordy, Friday, 16 March 2012 18:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

it's more the way it's being said than what

"It only stands to reason that some of them are doing it in heels" ffs

Cantera: Vulgar Display Of Puyol (DJ Mencap), Friday, 16 March 2012 18:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

There's the super condescending opening, ending with "As a favor to Women's History Month researchers of the future, Rocks Off has compiled the following list of 10 ladies whose music we're way, way into at the moment. Savor that spotlight, girls, and remember -- you might be making history."

I mean... a "favor"? "Savor that spotlight, girls"?

Then, out of the ten profiles, the Sleigh Bells blurb spends just as much time talking about how hot Alexis Krauss is and several of the other profiles have side allusions to the singer's physical attractiveness in them (Crystal Castles: "potent blend of disturbing and alluring"; The Tontons: "you can always count on Asli to put the city's freshest musical face forward"; Lacuna Coil: "The Lacuna Coil singer brings a singular, feminine grace to a rock genre that sorely lacks it").

Then you have the inclusion of Feist, which baldly states "we actually hate her but she has an album coming out that we have to hype".

The only inclusions that seem to be purely about women as musicians are Adele, Janelle Monae, Madonna and Florence and the Machine.

thuggish ruggish Brahms (DJP), Friday, 16 March 2012 18:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

Like I said, it's much further down the totem pole when compared to things like the legislative hate crimes happening against women in this country, but that doesn't mean it isn't sexist.

thuggish ruggish Brahms (DJP), Friday, 16 March 2012 18:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

tbf if there's one thing that goth metal is sorely lacking it's female singers so kudos to this guy for highlighting that

Cantera: Vulgar Display Of Puyol (DJ Mencap), Friday, 16 March 2012 19:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah I didn't actually bother reading the article so you've def answered my question... xp

Mordy, Friday, 16 March 2012 19:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

"There are a couple of reasons why we're so into Janelle Monae. The first reason is that she pretty much exclusively releases concept records about robot women. That's good enough that we don't really need a second reason, but we also happen to be very impressed that she can tie a bowtie."

Marilyn Hagerty: the terroir of tiny town (Abbbottt), Friday, 16 March 2012 19:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

sold

Wesley Crusher: Teenage F#ck Machine (forksclovetofu), Friday, 16 March 2012 19:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah that was dumb too but I figured I was already complaining way too much about this list

thuggish ruggish Brahms (DJP), Friday, 16 March 2012 20:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

that monae thing really annoyed me

Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 16 March 2012 21:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

https://storify.com/charlesarthur/oh-hai-sexism

female programmer tweets at a company's founders saying that a video promoting their brand is sexist, they spend their time dissecting her use of words and making thinly-veiled threats about knowing her employer

mh, Thursday, 22 March 2012 18:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

She has a point - I saw this earlier, though, and really did feel her approach (the "fucking gross") was a shitty* one. Is she a teenager? She should know better! Wish we could do a controlled study where she instead said "I find this offensive" or something with more respectable language. /Grandma

*Hah - I'm just as bad. But I don't tweet complaints to companies, generally. I just don't buy things that anger me.

she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Thursday, 22 March 2012 19:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

protip: don't read the comments on that storify link

i think this is serious (elmo argonaut), Thursday, 22 March 2012 19:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

eh, i think it's completely reasonable to think that women should be able to get angry & confrontational & use profanity without them being derided as unprofessional, irrational, or attention-seeking

i think this is serious (elmo argonaut), Thursday, 22 March 2012 19:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

No kidding.

To me, the issue isn't even about the video, it's about their completely idiotic response to her complaint. Yes, she probably should have phrased things differently or taken a different approach, but their reaction was completely bullshit. The response to "I think this is sexist" isn't "You are a big meany and I know your boss"

mh, Thursday, 22 March 2012 19:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

Their apology pretty much blows, too. The video was made by a woman! We have women in our office! I own another business that employs many women! None of those is "We responded inappropriately to someone on twitter"

mh, Thursday, 22 March 2012 19:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

is there a place to watch the video? it's apparently private now?

Mordy, Thursday, 22 March 2012 19:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

FFM do you seriously think if she had said, "I find it offensive" she would have gotten a positive response?

Responding to a criticism by criticizing the delivery of the comment is a classic way to derail a potentially legit discussion - http://derailingfordummies.com/#hostile - and it happens all the time.

elmo, mh OTM

carl agatha, Thursday, 22 March 2012 19:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

some of my best friends are women

mh, Thursday, 22 March 2012 19:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

I am definitely a "you get more bees with honey" kind of woman, yes. I am smart enough to be aware that people will let my delivery get in the way of my message and try to conduct myself accordingly, when it's important to me.

she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Thursday, 22 March 2012 19:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

I mean, the whole "she shouldn't use such objectionable language" is the EXACT response she got:

@shanley @rekatz I'm not cool with the angry tone regardless of the context or situation, far more professional ways to handle.
Christian Sanz
14 hours ago
ReplyRetweet
Share

@shanley @rekatz you could have adressed this in a far more professional way, like "hey guys, I sent you an email", yelling+cursing not cool
Christian Sanz
14 hours ago
ReplyRetweet

Translation: stop being so uppity, woman.

carl agatha, Thursday, 22 March 2012 19:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

the gist is, "sorry if our objectification of women offended you, but we'd be more responsive to your complaint if it were delivered in a more ladylike tone."

or, "pipe down so we can disregard you, woman."

i think this is serious (elmo argonaut), Thursday, 22 March 2012 19:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yup.

carl agatha, Thursday, 22 March 2012 19:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

(N.B. I would be saying the exact same thing if a man was the typist.)

she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Thursday, 22 March 2012 19:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

the one thing I've learned is that "I have a family" is apparently a response to anything

"Don't swear at me, I have a family"

mh, Thursday, 22 March 2012 19:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

they do come across a little like "but you know us! you know we aren't sexist! *pout*" in the midst of their rampant sexism

THIS TRADE SERVES ZERO FOOTBALL PURPOSE (DJP), Thursday, 22 March 2012 19:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

FFM, let's assume she was an overly hostile person and was in the wrong. Does that make their response any more right?

mh, Thursday, 22 March 2012 19:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

I also like how she didn't really call them sexist, just was asking about this video she had an objection to, and then they started doing everything they could to turn it into a debate about her character

mh, Thursday, 22 March 2012 19:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

I HAVE A FAMILY.

i think this is serious (elmo argonaut), Thursday, 22 March 2012 19:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

(N.B. I would be saying the exact same thing if a man was the typist.)

But it wasn't. It was a woman expressing a strong opinion about something she found sexist and the response was "watch your mouth, lady!" which is as much the sexist part as the video itself. Focusing on her unladylike language instead of the complaint is the problem.

carl agatha, Thursday, 22 March 2012 19:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

I HAVE CHILDREN.

i think this is serious (elmo argonaut), Thursday, 22 March 2012 19:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

I once made the mistake of using my work email address as my contact info when cruising through a Cure-related website that had some really terrible mystery meat navigation and said so in the comments; the webmaster wrote me back an angry letter where he threatened to expose my blatant unprofessionalism to my boss because he thought I was a competing web developer trolling for business by insulting his work. I immediately told my boss and we both laughed at his dumb ass. (I also wrote back and clarified that I was a fan of the music and not a web developer.)

THIS TRADE SERVES ZERO FOOTBALL PURPOSE (DJP), Thursday, 22 March 2012 19:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

YOU CAN'T TALK TO ME THAT WAY. I HAVE TWO DOGS.

i think this is serious (elmo argonaut), Thursday, 22 March 2012 19:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

YOU CAN'T TALK TO ME THAT WAY I HAVE A UTERUS.

how did I get here? why am I in the whiskey aisle? this is all so (Laurel), Thursday, 22 March 2012 19:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

whoa, tmi there lady. why do you have to advertise you're a woman? what an attention whore.

mh, Thursday, 22 March 2012 19:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

I see everyone the same. Men, women, ladyboys, purple people

mh, Thursday, 22 March 2012 19:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

is it poor taste for me to say the last few posts have had me in hysterics

THIS TRADE SERVES ZERO FOOTBALL PURPOSE (DJP), Thursday, 22 March 2012 19:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

oh man, that was subtle, a+ punchline Mr. P

mh, Thursday, 22 March 2012 19:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

Poor taste? On MY internet?

how did I get here? why am I in the whiskey aisle? this is all so (Laurel), Thursday, 22 March 2012 19:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

I CAN'T BE SEXIST, I HAVE A DAUGHTER.

i think this is serious (elmo argonaut), Thursday, 22 March 2012 19:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

I wonder if it would blow those dudes' minds if someone told them women can be sexist

mh, Thursday, 22 March 2012 19:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

mh: people go on the defensive when their mistakes are pointed out, his first response was fairly reasonable (could have used a sorry, maybe) in the 'we do need a new one :)' admission. You get treated how you treat others! She does identify whatever company she works for in her 'about me' section, I didn't see his mention of it as a threat to get her in trouble - I can see how people would - but twitter is an imperfect medium to have a debate about feminism.

Carl - where do they mention she's a lady? ("watch your mouth, lady!")

she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Thursday, 22 March 2012 19:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

Er I think I lost my train of thought to mh - sorry! - I don't identify my company's name online because I feel doing so would mean that every tweet I make would be associated with them, a little bit. So if she wants to make a big deal to them about they way they are repsenting a brand, I think it's fair for them to point out that she is too. I wouldn't speak to a colleague like that. If your tweets only reflect yourself - why mention the company in your bio? Why make that link, you know?

she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Thursday, 22 March 2012 19:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

You get treated how you treat others!

But this ISN'T TRUE, you're asserting a "truth" that is part of the problem.

twitter is an imperfect medium to have a debate about feminism.

So people should only have objections to shittiness when it's convenient for the offender? That's...convenient.

how did I get here? why am I in the whiskey aisle? this is all so (Laurel), Thursday, 22 March 2012 19:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

Uh, they outright said "we know your boss"

mh, Thursday, 22 March 2012 19:44 (2 years ago) Permalink

soooooo have any of u seen this video?

Mordy, Thursday, 22 March 2012 19:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

the onus of professionalism is on the person acting in a professional capacity, not on the complainant. i mean, i get occasional rough language & abuse from customers on the phone, but that doesn't give me any license to disregard the customer or the substance of their complaint.

i think this is serious (elmo argonaut), Thursday, 22 March 2012 19:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

xp back to me "I have a family" is pretty lol but really it all got so annoying to me I could barely bring myself to read to the end, heh.

Laurel - what I meant by imperfect medium is that trying to cram words into 140 characters can change a person's tone in a response. Like his sentence about her working for Basho coming off as a threat to her, and me needing three sentences to explain what my interpretation might have been. If she'd emailed them (where they would have unlimited characters with which to draft a response) and got no response (or a shitty response) after a day or two, maybe then twitter is the answer to raise the awareness.

And okay, maybe you don't always get treated the way you treat others but I feel my own behaviour is certainly a factor that defines how people speak to me. But some people are just jerks.

she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Thursday, 22 March 2012 19:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

the other thing to realize is that she wasn't personally attacking either of them, she was attacking a video that was related to their company! I understand they feel like their company is important but an individual accusing a company of being sexist and appealing to the leaders of that company is different from them mentioning their business connections and pulling those in the conversation.

"I, as a person, find this offensive" is not something you respond to with as "We, as a company know where you work and can tell your boss"

mh, Thursday, 22 March 2012 19:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

tbh i kinda think twitter is an ideal medium for calling ppl out on their bullshit

i think this is serious (elmo argonaut), Thursday, 22 March 2012 19:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

mh: I do see that now - I didn't before - like I said, I got online drama fatigue and started skimming. But my irritance with her approach registered loooong before that. Fuck, I would neeeever tweet at one of our clients like that (assuming if he knows, so would she.) I like my job! And I drop a lot of fucks!

she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Thursday, 22 March 2012 19:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

@shanley @rekatz our friend wanted to do the video really bad because she is a model and she loved the brand, what's wrong with that?

"it can't be sexist, our friend WANTED to make this video"

mh, Thursday, 22 March 2012 19:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

Elmo - that's fair. But sexism is a pretty sensitive issue so I feel like restricting yourself/your combatant to 140 characters at a time is just setting yourself up to be hurt.

she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Thursday, 22 March 2012 19:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

This professionalism talk is bullshit because the geek conference circuit, which these people are a part of, tends to be kind of sweary and this male/female dynamic is all too common. I doubt she thought she was being that off-color, and them reading it as such and acting like she's way out of line codes wrong

mh, Thursday, 22 March 2012 19:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

is there a place to watch the video? it's apparently private now?

― Mordy, Thursday, March 22, 2012 3:13 PM (37 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^^ Mordy knows what's really up

Lester the Unlikely (crüt), Thursday, 22 March 2012 19:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

That's fair. I don't work in the geek circuit but I do have lots of friends who do (uh oh I'm veering dangerously close here! I HAVE A FAMILY TOO!!!) but they're not the types to take that approach. LOL Canadians. I would classify myself as 1000% more crude than the ones I know, heh. I can't watch the video - it's private now - and I'm not debating whether it was sexist. I just don't believe that if an angry man tweeted at these people he wouldn't have received similar dismissal.

she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Thursday, 22 March 2012 19:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

I gotta break myself of the phrase 'That's fair,' ugh.

she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Thursday, 22 March 2012 19:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

https://twitter.com/#!/shanley/status/182878421133705217

now, this is just ugly

mh, Thursday, 22 March 2012 19:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

like, what are they hoping for by trying to get a bunch of people together to do this?
"hey everyone, come here so we can throw rocks at this complaining woman. or feminists, show up to throw rocks at us. we'll be there!"

mh, Thursday, 22 March 2012 19:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

is there a place to watch the video?

imagine a tech company logo on the front panel of a scantily clad lady's underpants... forever

i think this is serious (elmo argonaut), Thursday, 22 March 2012 20:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

xp Yeah that's just weird. I don't really want to defend either of these people, haha. I just want to send the world to Lex's Finishing School of Grace and Respectability. My Grandma was my professor. I still don't wear navy & black together, either.

she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Thursday, 22 March 2012 20:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

Wow, that exchange mh just posted is... wtf? Don't advertise a meeting that you haven't actually arranged and then suggest the person not going is the one being nasty about it. What a major-league douche.

emil.y, Thursday, 22 March 2012 20:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

http://kottke.org/07/02/gender-diversity-at-web-conferences

guuuh

mh, Thursday, 22 March 2012 20:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

this company looks like it's made of bubble and refined bubble btw: http://geekli.st/about

s.clover, Thursday, 22 March 2012 20:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

oh n/m already posted

jabba hands, Thursday, 22 March 2012 20:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

that derailingfordummies link is great, and giving me cause to take an uncomfortable inventory

catbus otm (gbx), Thursday, 22 March 2012 21:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

not even refined bubble. fumes emitted from the bubble refinery.

s.clover, Thursday, 22 March 2012 21:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

and apparently more of the same from the tech world: http://www.readwriteweb.com/enterprise/2012/03/how-casual-sexism-put-sqoot-in.php

s.clover, Thursday, 22 March 2012 21:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/04/ryan-gosling-actually-historys-greatest-monster.html

I don't really know how to respond to this

dayo, Thursday, 5 April 2012 11:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

Discussed / LOL'd at this a bit on the Guardian thread because I didn't know where else to put it.

I haven't read the clusterfuck that I'm sure the comments will be, but on my first reading of the NYMag article, having read first the palaver, then Laurie Penny's ridiculous Gawker article...

I'm the first person to cry "sexism" in any situation where I detect even a sniff of it, but my reaction was: actually, not sexist. Hilarious.

That is: that I don't think that it's Penny's gender that caused the clusterfuck, but the things she wrote and the attitudes she seemed to take. I'm sure that she may receive a greater and more pointed *beatdown* for it, but the opprobrium is not due to her gender, but the fact that she behaved in a kind of a ridiculous and cliched manner. But, like, that's actually what some of us like LOLrie Penny for?

Popcorn Supergay Receiver (Masonic Boom), Thursday, 5 April 2012 11:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

anti-Semetic tbh

Mordy, Thursday, 5 April 2012 12:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

ah okay, I have no idea who laurie penny and didn't read the gawker article beyond what was excerpted xp

dayo, Thursday, 5 April 2012 12:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

2 weeks pass...

heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 23 April 2012 19:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

the comments on some of those pages can be even more fucked up, given the half-century gap

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Monday, 23 April 2012 19:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

girl watcher mag is pretty klassik honestly

boy, was that Dan Fielding hungry for some cake! (forksclovetofu), Monday, 23 April 2012 19:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

Congratulations, you found a sexist thing. Try a slightly smaller target next time, maybe?

how did I get here? why am I in the whiskey aisle? this is all so (Laurel), Monday, 23 April 2012 19:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 23 April 2012 19:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

still don't believe it

yuppie bullshit chocolate blogbait (contenderizer), Monday, 23 April 2012 19:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

poll thread:

  • LETTERS TO GIRL WATCHER
  • THE GIRL WATCHER'S ALMANAC
  • My Favorite Girl for Watching: THE KITTEN TYPE
  • GIRL WATCHING AROUND THE WORLD
  • GIRL WATCHER'S GUIDE TO PARIS
  • STALKING THE GIRL
  • THE GIRL NEXT DOOR
  • COLLECTING PRETTY GIRLS
  • A GIRL WATCHER ESCAPES
  • LOVE GODDESS DEPARTMENT
  • GIRLS WHO WANNA BE WATCHED
  • ANSWERS TO GIRL WATCHING PROBLEMS
  • THE FARMER'S DAUGHTER
  • STRAWBERRY BIRTHMARK DEPT.
  • THE PEEGEE GIRLS
  • HIP FLIPPERS, ETC.
  • GIRL ON A HORSE

THE KITTEN TYPE (contenderizer), Monday, 23 April 2012 19:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

girl watcher mag is pretty klassik honestly

if you say so champ

same old song and placenta (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Monday, 23 April 2012 19:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

^not a taschen fan i see

boy, was that Dan Fielding hungry for some cake! (forksclovetofu), Monday, 23 April 2012 20:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

I'm more of a Jaybird fan

heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 23 April 2012 20:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

Uh huh

Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Monday, 23 April 2012 20:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

not really sure what's unbelievable about this tbh

W. E. B. Du Bois Goals Panel (DJ Mencap), Monday, 23 April 2012 22:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

largely hyperbole, no need to dwell on it

heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 23 April 2012 22:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

could just have easily titled the link THIS IS SEXIST

heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 23 April 2012 22:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

this is straining my credulity a little, tbh

THE KITTEN TYPE (contenderizer), Monday, 23 April 2012 22:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

your credulity pants

mh, Tuesday, 24 April 2012 03:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

http://www.thenation.com/blog/167402/how-gender-identity-may-determine-right-vote-2012

"This is, by any measure, the portion of the electorate that is among the most marginalized and stigmatized, and hence probably most in need of the right to have a say in who governs their lives. But discussions on both sides of voter ID laws tend to leave out transgender citizens in discussions about who would be most adversely impacted."

1staethyr, Tuesday, 24 April 2012 04:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

3 weeks pass...

Is this homophobic?

@ :25

i swear to god i just saw a slightly different version of this where the guy does a little limp-wristed gesture at the two women at the end

goole, Friday, 18 May 2012 13:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

Not unless "steamer" is some derogatory thing I'm not getting imo

a parker full of poseys (Stevie D(eux)), Friday, 18 May 2012 21:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

^never been to cleveland

bailiwick bill (forksclovetofu), Friday, 18 May 2012 21:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

ha it really was the version i saw that was too much. i don't think he was even holding the mug making it clear he was a cat person

goole, Friday, 18 May 2012 21:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

Should we start a "this is/is this homophobic" thread?

a parker full of poseys (Stevie D(eux)), Friday, 18 May 2012 21:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

I just... boggle, at shit like that. I dont know what else to say.

Pureed Moods (Trayce), Saturday, 19 May 2012 08:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

3 weeks pass...

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/06/im-not-your-wife-a-new-study-points-to-a-hidden-form-of-sexism/258057/

The anecdotes at the beginning are so o_O and you can just imagine some old business-looking dude in a suit mindlessly saying them

mh, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 18:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

What's wrong w being sexy?

Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 18:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

goole, Thursday, 21 June 2012 13:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

the thug seems to have NOB tattooed on his chest

jacob von logflume (DJ Mencap), Thursday, 21 June 2012 13:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

what is this I don't even

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2012/07/03/510454/gop-state-senator-will-teach-brooklyn-women-to-act-like-ladies/

Women of Brooklyn, New York, State Senator Marty Golden (R) wants to turn you into proper ladies fit for employment.

As part of a summer series on career development directed at his female constituents, Golden is hosting a taxpayer-funded event called “Posture, Deportment and the Feminine Presence” on July 24. Golden promises to teach Bay Ridge women “the art of feminine presence,” which includes tips on how to “sit, stand and walk like a model” and “walk up and down a stair elegantly”:

Golden defended the workshop as simply a way to help women get jobs in a tough market. Countering this justification, State Sen. Liz Krueger (D-Manhattan) told City & State:

“Rather than passing legislation such as the Fair Pay Act to assist women in the workplace, the Senate Republicans appear to be offering career advice on posture and how to act feminine,” said Krueger, who hosted the Senate Democrats’ forum on issues affecting women in the workplace in May. “Perhaps this would be appropriate on Mad Men, but not in New York in the 21st century.“

Golden was the only Brooklyn senator to vote against New York’s same-sex marriage law.

Update

Golden’s website has deleted the above quotes from the event page.

Julie Derpy (Phil D.), Wednesday, 4 July 2012 01:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

from the article mh cited two weeks back:

"We found that employed husbands in traditional marriages, compared to those in modern marriages, tend to (a) view the presence of women in the workplace unfavorably, (b) perceive that organizations with higher numbers of female employees are operating less smoothly, (c) find organizations with female leaders as relatively unattractive, and (d) deny, more frequently, qualified female employees opportunities for promotion."

The studies showed that personal views and the domestic architecture of male leaders' private lives helped shape women's professional opportunities. This held true in both surveys and lab experiments, including one that tested whether candidates with identical backgrounds, but different names -- Drew versus Diane -- should receive a spot in a sought-after, company-sponsored MBA program. According to the research, men in traditional marriages gave Diane "significantly poor evaluations" compared to Drew. It seems that husbands with wives working at home imprinted that ideal onto women in the office.

holy shit. shouldn't be any surprise, but still comes as something of a shock. leads me to suppose that the upper executive ranks of american business are typically filled by men in what the study calls "traditional marriages" (where the husband works for pay and the wife works at home). this might help explain why career progress for women tends to stall out as they near those levels.

contenderizer, Wednesday, 4 July 2012 05:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

I just want to rant a little about "manic pixie dream girl," first described by the yucky Nathan Rabin, and subject of this much yuckier video:

"The cause of the manic pixie dream girl is still little understood. Although my own theory is severe retardation of the brain."
Like I could say a lot of shit about this but I'm just going to say it's pesky. All those movies where they magic some creative type out of a funk, sure, it's played ººº but extending it to IRL I guess anyone with bangs and glasses is just too precious (=stupid?) to go on?

chupacabra seeds (Abbbottt), Wednesday, 4 July 2012 19:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

I mean I certainly don't believe that but it's the thesis of this video.

chupacabra seeds (Abbbottt), Wednesday, 4 July 2012 19:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

pesky sounds about right.

Authorities don't know who shot the 50 Cent the goose. (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 4 July 2012 19:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

entire point of the stereotype is that it's a ridiculous reductive character type often written by men. using it as a stereotype for a real person makes no sense!

hot sauce delivery device (mh), Wednesday, 4 July 2012 20:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

the sketch isn't about about actual people, though. it's a "what if?" gag that strands a common fantasy character type as a fish out of water in the real world. kind of like enchanted, but less forgiving. the point is that the fantasy is more irritating than charming, or would be in real life. unfortunately, it winds up being more sexist than trenchant, especially with that "severe retardation of the brain" bit at the end. shitty comedy is shitty.

contenderizer, Wednesday, 4 July 2012 20:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

P sure it's supposed to be about real coocoo ladies

chupacabra seeds (Abbbottt), Wednesday, 4 July 2012 21:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

I don't get all the Goldie Hawn hate.

Cunga, Wednesday, 4 July 2012 21:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

xp

does drift in that direction at the end with the craft table conversation, which is just "lol, lib chicks say stupid shit"

contenderizer, Wednesday, 4 July 2012 21:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

prior to that it seemed to be mocking the fantasy

contenderizer, Wednesday, 4 July 2012 21:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

using it as a stereotype for a real person makes no sense!

I know an IRL mpdg. She's super manic -- super happy, skipping everywhere, singing to herself, etc. most of the time -- and then when something crosses her she switches in an instant to slamming doors, drama, etc. One weekend she spent all day blowing bubbles on the sidewalk, waiting for people to walk by and then in a fit of whimsy waving bubbles all around them. The weekend before that she set out sidewalk chalk and got all these strangers to draw on the sidewalk and on the road. She's an art student and doesn't have to pay rent and is living the outgoing eccentric pipe-dream.

It's annoying as hell most of the time, unless I'm in an extremely good mood, which I hardly am ever.

Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 4 July 2012 22:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

That's not a personality, that's a mental disorder or personality disorder!

hot sauce delivery device (mh), Wednesday, 4 July 2012 23:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

It's annoying as hell most of the time, unless I'm in an extremely good mood, which I hardly am ever.

Guilty laugh that this p much nails my reaction to an absurdly large number of behavior.

pandemic, Wednesday, 4 July 2012 23:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

I too have known some v mpdgish g's. Also otm re: Rabin; I was reading a bunch of those My Year of Flops and it was so horribly written! Like just super-obvious community college school paper arts section-quality "humor" but peppered with offensive throwaway jokes/generalizations

Drew Careymore (Stevie D(eux)), Thursday, 5 July 2012 03:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

lol, one of the "related videos" on Abbbottt's link is Zooey D on Kimmel.

Anyway, some observations I've made on the MPDG's I've known that don't get translated into the movies:

  • Some are lesbians. Always have been, always will be.
  • They don't go after guys that are opposites in attempts to "change them". More often than not, they find a straight guy of similar inclination and lock them down to the degree of a common-law marriage with the odd case of eventual matrimony. Some of the most stable relationships I know involve these people.
  • If they haven't done the above, they may latch on to a gay guy and go through many of the motions of a romantic relationship minus sex and such. I have a MPDG pal who just went through a breakup-esque episode because her "boyfriend" (who, might I add, is in a committed same-sex relationship) had to move far away for work.
  • There are others that are just serious loners.

Electro-Shock Rory (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 5 July 2012 04:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

"real MPDG" sounds kind of like "real Stepin Fetchit"

hot sauce delivery device (mh), Thursday, 5 July 2012 04:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

wtf is happening here

some dude nights (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 5 July 2012 05:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

just make something up and flip out about it

xlr to hard drive adaptor (electricsound), Thursday, 5 July 2012 05:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

It's suddenly a slow time for sexism in America.

Electro-Shock Rory (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 5 July 2012 05:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

? buncha ppl complaining about automatic subscriber renewal on a dating site?

funny-skrillex-bee_132455836669.gif (s1ocki), Thursday, 5 July 2012 17:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

i was gonna link geek2geek but figured this was an easier way

Authorities don't know who shot the 50 Cent the goose. (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 5 July 2012 17:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

undoubtedly sexist

contenderizer, Thursday, 5 July 2012 17:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

2 weeks pass...

how can a site as big as Buzzfeed get away with this?

camp lo magellan (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 20 July 2012 14:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

This is like one of the biggest sites on the internet with like advertisers in like a legit, non-Chan/non-Reddit capacity right? Or do i have my understanding of Buzzfeed wrong?

camp lo magellan (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 20 July 2012 14:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

I thought buzzfeed was mostly goofy videos and list articles?

hot sauce delivery device (mh), Friday, 20 July 2012 14:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

fucking internet

goole, Friday, 20 July 2012 14:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

don't those guys own spin now?

Mordy, Friday, 20 July 2012 14:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

Is Mordy circling the drain?

camp lo magellan (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 20 July 2012 15:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

Did Anyone See Mordy's List of Definitive Hardcore Albums?

anyway, I used buzzfeed for a while but they kinda have no quality control at all for some reason. I got tired of reading articles by bigoted idiots that had gotten buzzed up somehow.

Ring brother, ring for me! (Viceroy), Monday, 23 July 2012 22:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

https://twitter.com/jamestaranto/status/227954449191153665

goole, Wednesday, 25 July 2012 14:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

That guy, and most of the people responding affirmatively to him, are disgusting.

hot sauce delivery device (mh), Wednesday, 25 July 2012 14:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

lmao he actually describes it as a "challenging tweet"

price lo matalan (DJ Mencap), Wednesday, 25 July 2012 14:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

I'm not sure about sexist but it's misogynistic all right.

check the name, no caps, boom, i'm (Laurel), Wednesday, 25 July 2012 14:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

"challenging twit" obvs

I dont even know that I think this sucks per se (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 25 July 2012 14:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

Wait, I didn't mean to say that, I was thinking of something else. Obvs it is sexist as several fucks.

check the name, no caps, boom, i'm (Laurel), Wednesday, 25 July 2012 14:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

just saw the 'camry' ad

http://toyotagoodmove.com/

what in the fuck

goole, Sunday, 5 August 2012 17:44 (1 year ago) Permalink

uh.jpg

mississippi joan hart (crüt), Sunday, 5 August 2012 18:10 (1 year ago) Permalink

Good thing he chose to marry that car

drawings by teen cultists (Crabbits), Sunday, 5 August 2012 18:25 (1 year ago) Permalink

is that sexist?

the most astonishing writer on ilx (roxymuzak), Tuesday, 14 August 2012 00:23 (1 year ago) Permalink

camry couldnt afford kristin wiig so they made a composite of four of her characters & then got a gifted class 7th grader to put the word "cheese" in it

Fareed Zaireeka (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 14 August 2012 00:56 (1 year ago) Permalink

pfft gifted class 7th graders would know better

drawings by teen cultists (Crabbits), Tuesday, 14 August 2012 02:56 (1 year ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

More of an "Is this sexist?" than a "this is sexist":

I ask because, although I find this fairly amusing, I can't help the feeling that BMW expects us to laugh at the little woman -- when in fact pretty much anyone without significant motorsport experience would freaking out at least that hard.

Three Word Username, Thursday, 27 September 2012 09:11 (1 year ago) Permalink

Well, they're both pretty little.

die face down in some dude's pool (how's life), Thursday, 27 September 2012 09:27 (1 year ago) Permalink

Well, the guy wasn't being an arse, he was informative and never once tried the "This'll make her scream if i do THIS!" biz.

Rule of thumb: "Top Gear" would not do this, it's not 'sexist' enough.

Mark G, Thursday, 27 September 2012 09:29 (1 year ago) Permalink

Guess where I found the video, Mark.

Three Word Username, Thursday, 27 September 2012 09:31 (1 year ago) Permalink

Youtube.

Mark G, Thursday, 27 September 2012 09:50 (1 year ago) Permalink

Mark G, Thursday, 27 September 2012 10:18 (1 year ago) Permalink

It burns, don't it?

Three Word Username, Thursday, 27 September 2012 10:21 (1 year ago) Permalink

I was playing a "School" themed TOTP2 to the girls, I've mentioned a couple of tracks' responses in other threads. Yesterday, this one came up and Alice was all "awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww......"

This morning, she found the above and we all laughed a bit. Then she found the original and played it in full, and we were all "can you stop now or we leave the room?"

Mark G, Thursday, 27 September 2012 10:25 (1 year ago) Permalink

4 weeks pass...

friend sent me this story
http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/23/living/oprah-woman-work-skills/index.html?hpt=hp_bn11

comment of note: I think the way CNN and other feminist media outlets talk about women it sounds like they border on retarded. They have millions of organizations designed to help only them, numerous days and months on the calendar to remind them they matter, and CNN is licking their carpets every day. If women are as capable as men, why do they need all this help. The gender gap when researched correctly shows that men with kids out earn women with or without kids, and out earn men without kids. Maybe women don't get it that men in their prime are made for workin. Sorry feminists, can't blame discrimination for everything.

(*・_・)ノ⌒ ☆ (Je55e), Thursday, 25 October 2012 18:00 (1 year ago) Permalink

/dies

www.toilet-guru.com (silby), Thursday, 25 October 2012 18:04 (1 year ago) Permalink

"licking their carpets"?

let's have sex and then throw pottery (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 25 October 2012 18:15 (1 year ago) Permalink

oral sex probably but it sounds like they don't know how to do it

www.toilet-guru.com (silby), Thursday, 25 October 2012 18:20 (1 year ago) Permalink

ladies lick carpets, only whores munch rug!

...I dunno just trying to wrong some humor from that disgusting and bizarre comment.

Frobisher the (Viceroy), Thursday, 25 October 2012 18:46 (1 year ago) Permalink

*wring, damn Freud and his slips.

Frobisher the (Viceroy), Thursday, 25 October 2012 18:47 (1 year ago) Permalink

re: a friend just gave his car a 'typical black female name', i don't know what to think of it.

Van Horn Street, Thursday, 25 October 2012 18:48 (1 year ago) Permalink

well, what was the name?

Frobisher the (Viceroy), Thursday, 25 October 2012 19:11 (1 year ago) Permalink

the whole explanation is in the 'is this racist' thread.

Van Horn Street, Thursday, 25 October 2012 19:13 (1 year ago) Permalink

van horn honking

d-_-b (mh), Thursday, 25 October 2012 19:15 (1 year ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/12/melissa-nelson-dental-assistant-fired-for-being-irresistible-is-devastated/

This is making me sick to my stomach. Idiots still saying "well we don't know all the facts" on the comments page (when in fact, we do, because the case went to TRIAL, dumbshits).

Someone is within their rights to terminate an employee because of a perceived threat to their marriage that is projected by the employer himself, a case in which he clearly made some of the first sexual advances, and this is not gender-bias? Whether it's a right-to-work state or not, this should not be legal.

I hope that employer's flaccid penis is bitten off by a mutant gecko and tossed into the woods, never to be seen again.

NINO CARTER, Sunday, 23 December 2012 21:28 (1 year ago) Permalink

I seriously feel like starting a Kickstarter campaign to help Melissa Nelson fight this to the national level. This is so wrong, and so illegal. “Our position has always been Mrs. Nelson was never terminated because of her gender, she was terminated because of concerns her behavior was not appropriate in the workplace. She’s an attractive lady. That's a crime ladies, looking too good. That's bad behavior. Especially if the kangaroo court judging you is all male. In Iowa, that's evidently carte blanche for firing any woman who works in an office with men. Especially if your choice of clothing is "causing" them to get boners.

Oh, "the couple consulted with a senior pastor at their church and he agreed that Nelson should be terminated in order to protect their marriage". Protect their marriage, my ass. The only threat to their marriage is his hyperjealous wife. (My entire childhood was pulverized in order to "protect" my parents' marriage - it didn't work even in that respect - but I can't help but clench my teeth in rage whenever I hear that phrase used to cover up rude behavior or worse).

In the meantime we can send out notices to all of Dr. Knight's female patients regarding his ethics (hey, why not his male patients while we're at it too?), to alert any potential patients that their appearance may "distract" Dr. Knight who may drill into your gums or lips if he finds your eyes too enticing or your boobs too large.

This is beyond sickening.

Lee626, Monday, 24 December 2012 13:36 (1 year ago) Permalink

I just read the entire state supreme court judgment, which is a little brief as it refers to the district court's summary judgment as shorthand on a few occasions, but it widely cites prior cases. Whether that is in order to clarify a lack of specificity in the law, or due to caution, I'm not sure.

The court's decision seems to try a little hard to be gender-blind -- I don't know whether this is due to a mindset change after the same court was one to affirm the legality of same-sex marriage. Most of the court was not retained two years ago, with only one person remaining who affirmed that decision. I don't know that this means this decision was politicized, but it definitely sets a tone for discrimination cases.

If anything, I think the inability to strongly cite a state law was the issue, combined with a reticence to apply existing law due to a conflict between sex/gender and the other issues on the table. The laws are completely based on an inequal judgment of a plaintiff according to gender -- in the court's eyes, all of the plaintiff's peers were also women. It seems to strongly point to the fact, although unstated, that there could have been a male dental hygienist who could have had the exact same treatment. Was the issue here in that the pervo dentist was attracted to women? Yes. But he didn't treat her differently because she was a woman, according to the decision, but because he acted inappropriately due to his perceived attraction. The gender discrimination laws are not the same as the harassment laws, and this case drew the line by not claiming harassment.

So, basically, there need to be better, more intelligently-worded laws about workplace discrimination and what you can be fired for, but I think this is more an issue of it being a position of at-will employment.

So I'd say: Pervo dentist and his wife are sexist and jerks and their marriage sucks, the state laws could use a tune-up, and at-will employment means this shit happens because you could pretty much make up any excuse and fire someone, as long as it doesn't violate any laws. It'd be a much different case if it was about harassment or a perceived hostile workplace, but that wasn't the case brought, probably because the dental hygienist was slightly creeped out but, in her perception, still had a reasonable non-sexual friendly status with her boss, up until the point she was fired. So, sexist, but I kind of feel like the state supreme court's hands were tied.

mh, Monday, 24 December 2012 15:35 (1 year ago) Permalink

Why was this in state court? I'm assuming the employer had too few employees for federal sex discrimination law to be applicable?

(*・_・)ノ⌒ ☆ (Je55e), Monday, 24 December 2012 18:41 (1 year ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

guys there's something I just need to get off my chest

k3vin k., Friday, 22 February 2013 21:07 (1 year ago) Permalink

A new fad on campus I've noticed is the lack of pants women are wearing. Well, maybe not a total lack of pants, but pretty close. I am referring to leggings. Initially leggings were meant to be worn underneath another garment such as a skirt or for a little extra warmth. Yet, for some reason women have gone from using it as a supporting piece of clothing to the only garment they wear to cover their lower extremities. I have a few problems with this.

First off, women enjoy, ignore, or are completely unaware of the fact men, like me, are enjoying the show. Come on! When I see a girl with leggings, it's like I am seeing her naked. I can see every curve, from the slope of the calf muscle, to the rise in the hump that we like to call the lovely lady lump. Now being a ‘leg man' myself, I must say for those who have some of the finest legs I've ever seen, I don't mind looking. You are, after all, kind of bringing it on yourself. However, for the ladies whose strong point may not be their legs, please, don't wear leggings. Which leads me to my second problem.

To the unfortunate ladies who haven't been blessed with beautiful legs: lose the leggings.

They are not getting you looks of affection, if that's what you're striving for. In fact, they are probably getting the opposite; looks of disgust, or guys just simply turning the other way. Guys and girls, whether you like to accept it or not, are judging you.

This leads me to my third problem with these blasted leggings. Ladies you're being judged. I can't stress that enough. For us men, if you look good in leggings, we say, "She's lookin' fine!" The next thought for many of us, if we are gentlemen, is, "Wow, I wonder if she gets around." A good, tight pair of jeans will make you ladies feel sexy and take the judging out of the equation. Most gentlemen like a girl who is a little more modest. She knows she's sexy, but doesn't have to show it off. There are very few girls who have figured this concept out. If we see less; we tend to want more.

If this is not convincing enough for you ladies, let me ask you a question. How would you view yourself if you were another person? Imagine this:

You see yourself walking down the street, wearing a backpack and t-shirt. Then, you find yourself rather attractive, and check yourself out. What do you see? Not jeans, or short-shorts, but leggings, which are hiding nothing! Now what do you think you look like? Sounds like a risky investment. Would you walk around naked in front of the whole campus?

You could have envisioned yourself one of three ways. The first is like an attractive woman trying to show off. Maybe you're trying to get some attention, which, you hope will boost your meager self-esteem. Sadly though, the attention you receive isn't going to boost your self-esteem. Instead it will only tear it down more when you realize people are snickering.

Or, you simply realize that you don't look good in leggings. Congratulations! Now focus on your best attribute and accentuate it. I'm not saying you should become overly expressive in other areas, but now that you have realized you're not flattering anyone with your legs, you can either fix that problem or hide it.

Finally, for the lucky few who actually figured modesty out, you have earned yourself a golden star! Whether you have the most attractive legs in the world, or are simply an average girl realizing that leggings aren't helping the cause, you have learned the most important lesson today: leggings are a supporting piece of clothing, and gentlemen will want you whether or not you're showing off your beautiful body. Remember, less is more.

k3vin k., Friday, 22 February 2013 21:08 (1 year ago) Permalink

who is this guy giving out fashion tips and what does he look like

wins rules at negative self-demolition (wins), Friday, 22 February 2013 21:12 (1 year ago) Permalink

Thank you for this article! As a female, I totally agree that leggings are not meant to be pants, no matter how sexy your body is. I appreciate your male perspective and the fact that you value modesty!

ogmor, Friday, 22 February 2013 21:13 (1 year ago) Permalink

I appreciate your male perspective

ogmor, Friday, 22 February 2013 21:13 (1 year ago) Permalink

Jesus fucking CHRIST

This beat is TWEENCHRONIC (DJP), Friday, 22 February 2013 21:14 (1 year ago) Permalink

oh boy, MODESTY

and that sounds like a gong-concert (La Lechera), Friday, 22 February 2013 21:14 (1 year ago) Permalink

"less is more" is a really confusing moral to this story

wins rules at negative self-demolition (wins), Friday, 22 February 2013 21:15 (1 year ago) Permalink

less clothing?

wins rules at negative self-demolition (wins), Friday, 22 February 2013 21:15 (1 year ago) Permalink

It's at times like these, the great heaven knows...

you may not like it now but you will (Zora), Friday, 22 February 2013 21:18 (1 year ago) Permalink

ZACH NOLD IS A SOPHOMORE ENGLISH AND TEACHING MAJOR. REACH HIM AT ZACHN✧✧✧@DAILYNEBRAS✧✧✧.C✧✧

k3vin k., Friday, 22 February 2013 21:18 (1 year ago) Permalink

Other ppl judging you based on your appearance is a fact of life; everyone knows this already. The best thing you can do if you want to break the judgment cycle is to keep your judgments to yourself; writing a stupid "I can't help but ogle you unless you wear pants" article is never available solution.

This beat is TWEENCHRONIC (DJP), Friday, 22 February 2013 21:19 (1 year ago) Permalink

A good, tight pair of jeans will make you ladies feel sexy and take the judging out of the equation. A good, tight pair of jeans will make you ladies feel sexy and take the judging out of the equation. A good, tight pair of jeans will make you ladies feel sexy and take the judging out of the equation. A good, tight pair of jeans will make you ladies feel sexy and take the judging out of the equation. A good, tight pair of jeans will make you ladies feel sexy and take the judging out of the equation. A good, tight pair of jeans will make you ladies feel sexy and take the judging out of the equation. A good, tight pair of jeans will make you ladies feel sexy and take the judging out of the equation.

:C (crüt), Friday, 22 February 2013 21:19 (1 year ago) Permalink

k3v otm

in a chef-driven ambulance (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 22 February 2013 21:19 (1 year ago) Permalink

That was supposed to be "a viable"

This beat is TWEENCHRONIC (DJP), Friday, 22 February 2013 21:20 (1 year ago) Permalink

I don't know why but I read that first sentence in comedy trailer voiceover voice xxxxp

wins rules at negative self-demolition (wins), Friday, 22 February 2013 21:20 (1 year ago) Permalink

ZACH NOLD IS ABOUT TO FIND OUT

wins rules at negative self-demolition (wins), Friday, 22 February 2013 21:20 (1 year ago) Permalink

Whether you have the most attractive legs in the world, or are simply an average girl realizing that leggings aren't helping the cause, you have learned the most important lesson today: Whether you have the most attractive legs in the world, or are simply an average girl realizing that leggings aren't helping the cause, you have learned the most important lesson today: Whether you have the most attractive legs in the world, or are simply an average girl realizing that leggings aren't helping the cause, you have learned the most important lesson today: Whether you have the most attractive legs in the world, or are simply an average girl realizing that leggings aren't helping the cause, you have learned the most important lesson today: Whether you have the most attractive legs in the world, or are simply an average girl realizing that leggings aren't helping the cause, you have learned the most important lesson today:

:C (crüt), Friday, 22 February 2013 21:20 (1 year ago) Permalink

Obviously, with this restriction our Founding Fathers disenfranchised many people based on their race and gender, none of which was right. But they understood a concept that should be applied to today’s voting system. Only if you contribute to the betterment of a country can you vote in its elections.

This guy is a treasure trove of horribleness: http://www.dailynebraskan.com/opinion/article_372f6bca-2249-11e2-ab30-0019bb30f31a.html

Austerity Ponies, Friday, 22 February 2013 21:25 (1 year ago) Permalink

Guy's noticed some leggings, what's the beef

lance armstrong will have been delighted (darraghmac), Friday, 22 February 2013 21:26 (1 year ago) Permalink

hey look a conservative

http://noldwriting.blogspot.com/

goole, Friday, 22 February 2013 21:27 (1 year ago) Permalink

Opinion Column 2012 NOLD: With simplified tax plan and economic benefits for all, ‘FairTax’ is a no-brainer

Opinion Column 2012 NOLD: Free speech shapes the world, should be fought for

Opinion Column 2012 NOLD: Voting is a privilege for contributing members of society

Opinion Column 2012 NOLD: United States needs to stand up for itself

Opinion Column 2012 Concealed weapons on campus create safer atmosphere

and a poem:

Naked Pain Heroes

goole, Friday, 22 February 2013 21:29 (1 year ago) Permalink

lmao @ Naked Pain Heroes

:C (crüt), Friday, 22 February 2013 21:30 (1 year ago) Permalink

Zachary Nold ‏@ZachNold
Here is my new column on feminism! NOLD: Feminism hurts modern-day relationships http://www.dailynebraskan.com/opinion/article_1b6e3d68-7c8e-11e2-a370-001a4bcf6878.html#.USfHJOpU2RY.twitter … via @@dailyneb

Austerity Ponies, Friday, 22 February 2013 21:31 (1 year ago) Permalink

fantastic opening sentence there

:C (crüt), Friday, 22 February 2013 21:32 (1 year ago) Permalink

How is this a real person and not onion?

Philip Nunez, Friday, 22 February 2013 21:33 (1 year ago) Permalink

Gliding with no precise movements,
boil flashed monarchs howl profanities like a purring kitten.

^YES

Austerity Ponies, Friday, 22 February 2013 21:33 (1 year ago) Permalink

dailyneb

christmas candy bar (al leong), Friday, 22 February 2013 21:34 (1 year ago) Permalink

The next thought for many of us, if we are gentlemen, is, "Wow, I wonder if she gets around."

emil.y, Friday, 22 February 2013 21:34 (1 year ago) Permalink

How gentlemanly.

emil.y, Friday, 22 February 2013 21:35 (1 year ago) Permalink

it's only gentlemanly.

xpost!

:C (crüt), Friday, 22 February 2013 21:35 (1 year ago) Permalink

Zach Nold probably thinks the taxes his parents pay entitles him to a vote, right?

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Friday, 22 February 2013 21:36 (1 year ago) Permalink

christmas candy bar (al leong), Friday, 22 February 2013 21:37 (1 year ago) Permalink

Gliding with no precise movements (5),
boil flashed monarchs howl profanities like a purring kitten (8).

wins rules at negative self-demolition (wins), Friday, 22 February 2013 21:37 (1 year ago) Permalink

christmas candy bar (al leong), Friday, 22 February 2013 21:38 (1 year ago) Permalink

boil flashed monarchs howl profanities like a purring kitten

Kitties don't even talk like that.

Austerity Ponies, Friday, 22 February 2013 21:40 (1 year ago) Permalink

man that guy's other editorials are just...they're exactly what i expected, actually

well if it isn't old 11 cameras simon (gbx), Friday, 22 February 2013 21:51 (1 year ago) Permalink

one weird trick to reading a nold article: click and drag the picture so that his face bounces on top of words you're reading, singalong style

chilli, Friday, 22 February 2013 21:55 (1 year ago) Permalink

this is one of the stupidest things i have ever read in my entire life

http://www.dailynebraskan.com/opinion/article_372f6bca-2249-11e2-ab30-0019bb30f31a.html

well if it isn't old 11 cameras simon (gbx), Friday, 22 February 2013 21:55 (1 year ago) Permalink

dude's an english major; what exactly does he think he's contributing to society

железобетонное очко (mookieproof), Friday, 22 February 2013 21:58 (1 year ago) Permalink

Feminism has met its goals and women are now equal with men as they should be. We are truly beginning to see feminism change our economy, college campuses and relationships. However, an overreaching has begun to happen through feminism whether or not they realize it.

Feminism has achieved what it was set out to do, and now that women are considered equal, ‘feminists’ want more. The movement is ruining modern relationships, and it’s bringing about the downfall of men. This can easily be seen by the numbers on a college campus and in the modern economy.

железобетонное очко (mookieproof), Friday, 22 February 2013 22:02 (1 year ago) Permalink

okay the leggings thing was o_O enough, but that one sheesh

HAPPY BDAY TOOTS (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Friday, 22 February 2013 22:03 (1 year ago) Permalink

congrats ladies

железобетонное очко (mookieproof), Friday, 22 February 2013 22:03 (1 year ago) Permalink

Putin howled profanities "like a kitten"

this is called money bags (Phil D.), Friday, 22 February 2013 22:03 (1 year ago) Permalink

should introduce him and marc loi

caek, Friday, 22 February 2013 22:14 (1 year ago) Permalink

otm

:C (crüt), Friday, 22 February 2013 22:15 (1 year ago) Permalink

that we like to call the lovely lady lump

as equal with men as they should be

☠ ☃ ☠ (mh), Saturday, 23 February 2013 01:19 (1 year ago) Permalink

If we see less; we tend to want more.

his editor not only fails at preventing his garbage from being published, but also fails at preventing catastrophic semicolon fiascos.

this guy makes me sad to be a zach. step up your game, nebraska zach.

( ( ( ( ( ( ( (Z S), Saturday, 23 February 2013 01:27 (1 year ago) Permalink

So, they continue to push against the ‘evil man’ until they can push no further.

Come over by this cliff, I have to show you something. It's really cool.

lets just remember to blame the patriarchy for (in orbit), Saturday, 23 February 2013 01:27 (1 year ago) Permalink

CIS-kill cliff

lance armstrong will have been delighted (darraghmac), Saturday, 23 February 2013 01:44 (1 year ago) Permalink

In this day and age, it’s usually the parent’s choices (exception: rape) that created the kid in the first place.

k3vin k., Saturday, 23 February 2013 03:44 (1 year ago) Permalink

i am picturing him pausing and raising a finger, "exception: rape," magnanimous, graciously allowing the possibility that ~sometimes~ children aren't choices, and now i am picturing clenching all the blood out of my fists

well if it isn't old 11 cameras simon (gbx), Saturday, 23 February 2013 03:53 (1 year ago) Permalink

yeah that was awfully big of him to make that exception

k3vin k., Saturday, 23 February 2013 04:20 (1 year ago) Permalink

the lesson here of course is that college newspapers are a repository for the absolute worst people on the planet

k3vin k., Saturday, 23 February 2013 04:21 (1 year ago) Permalink

obv

tho dollars:donuts ilx is home to a great deal of former collegiate journos

well if it isn't old 11 cameras simon (gbx), Saturday, 23 February 2013 04:35 (1 year ago) Permalink

ha yeah no shame in that, i wrote for my school paper briefly too. HATED IT

k3vin k., Saturday, 23 February 2013 04:38 (1 year ago) Permalink

Sir, voting is a right of every citizen. It does not matter if you are a 'contributing' citizen, because the moment you put qualifications on voting then you've opened to door wide open to tyranny, bcz who the fuck decides who 'contributes'? Some fuckwad like you? Not in my country, you don't.

Aimless, Saturday, 23 February 2013 04:55 (1 year ago) Permalink

yeah that bit jumped out at me as well. what a fucker.

a kissed out red popemobile (Trayce), Saturday, 23 February 2013 05:23 (1 year ago) Permalink

this was in the political cartoon section:

Philip Nunez, Saturday, 23 February 2013 05:45 (1 year ago) Permalink

olive posted at 5:09 pm on Sat, Feb 23, 2013.
olive Posts: 1

Zach,

I sat next to you two years ago at Selleck Dining Hall. Not only did you refuse to be a decent human being by introducing yourself as Zach Nold, you decided to declare women as "fire-breathing dragons." I didn't care so much for what you had to say then nor do I care for anything you have to say now. Your former brothers from Kappa Sigma even looked at you with a little confusion after you made this statement. It's pretty apparent that you've had a complex for women far longer than anyone could guess.

SOYLENT GREEN IS SHEEPLE (stevie), Saturday, 23 February 2013 23:36 (1 year ago) Permalink

also why is it whenever you see a picture of one of these weird misogynist 'i've been around the block a coupla times let me tell you about these females' they always always ALWAYS without fail look like wallflower virgins who aren't even ready to shave yet?

SOYLENT GREEN IS SHEEPLE (stevie), Saturday, 23 February 2013 23:37 (1 year ago) Permalink

in my day fire-breathing dragons were considered cool, I guess I am out of touch :(

an average girl realizing that leggings aren't helping the cause (DJ Mencap), Sunday, 24 February 2013 01:03 (1 year ago) Permalink

'The fact is women have become so independent and focused on their work many have forgotten how to have a relationship based on mutual understanding and cooperation. Instead, it has become a competition, and feminism has turned relationships into a competition of equality as well.'

Finding this very difficult to parse. He's basically ignoring that 'a relationship based on mutual understanding and cooperation' is a lot easier to have if both people work rather than one person working and the other not, because then their 'understanding' of work can be 'mutual'.

Alternatively it's not really worth analysing and he's just using mutual understanding to sugar coat the assertion that women shouldn't be out working. Also the assumption that 'a relationship' is more important than work: is that true for everyone? Is there any reason why it should be? People are allowed to want to devote their life to work, right

cardamon, Sunday, 24 February 2013 02:49 (1 year ago) Permalink

You are giving way too much credit to Misogynist College Op-Ed Man's capacity for critical thinking. If he were capable of it he wouldn't be a Misogynist College Op-Ed Man.

my god i only have 2 useless beyblade (silby), Sunday, 24 February 2013 03:12 (1 year ago) Permalink

anything more than "fuck this guy" is thinking too much about him imo

forks is lucky he didn't get stabbed over a marilyn monroe cd (forksclovetofu), Sunday, 24 February 2013 05:36 (1 year ago) Permalink

otm

my god i only have 2 useless beyblade (silby), Sunday, 24 February 2013 06:22 (1 year ago) Permalink

What even is a "competition of equality"? Is that when you, Important Man of Household, hold forth on a topic like your day at work or your exciting thoughts for half an hour, and your gf annoyingly feels the need to drop in a few words about her own workday/thoughts/interests to remind you that she has some too?

I mean how dare she, gotta cut that shit off immediately with "why are you always complaining about this stuff, I don't even know what you do or who any of these people are" just to show how wrong she is that anything she is or does could possibly even approach equality to you, right?

susuwatari teenage riot (a passing spacecadet), Sunday, 24 February 2013 10:39 (1 year ago) Permalink

Probably not going to change my username to 'exception : rape', but sure was tempted for a couple minutes there.

I turned away to leave these few in thought and contemplation (Bananaman Begins), Sunday, 24 February 2013 13:23 (1 year ago) Permalink

3 weeks pass...

Not really sure what to think about this:

https://twitter.com/adriarichards/status/313417655879102464

Basically, as far as I can tell, guy makes inappropriate lewd jokes at tech conference (I guess in an under-the-breath but audible way to his friend while sitting in the audience), this twitterer outed him with a pic, he got fired. Of course she didn't ask for him to be fired, so that's not on her, but was it right for her to publicly "out" him for this? And how bad was it for him to make this sort of joke at a conference? I'm not trying to be po faced about this, I'd really like people to weigh in on how uncomfortable this kind of joke in this kind of scenario makes them -- it's not the sort of thing I do anyway, but it's the sort of thing I would more actively make sure not to do if it really makes people uncomfortable.

space phwoar (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 13:54 (1 year ago) Permalink

He deserves death

mister borges (darraghmac), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 14:07 (1 year ago) Permalink

T/F: this wouldn't have happened if they hadn't been sporting smug beards

Heyman (crüt), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 14:16 (1 year ago) Permalink

reading the responses this woman is getting on some of the links associated with this, half the tech industry needs to be fired over this

Darth Icky (DJP), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 14:17 (1 year ago) Permalink

I don't get what forking repos means, but making a joke about big dongles doesn't seem sexist in itself to me, it could well just be harmlessly silly. But she's not very specific about what was actually said and to whom - there are definitely ways in which it could be inappropriate enough to call out. If it was during a female speaker, and it was consistently undermining the speech, with comments like "I'd show her my big dongle if you know what I mean", then yes, call it out, it's sexist. Still not sure posting a photo to twitter is the best way to go even in that case, but it would be more understandable.

xp - yeah, now looking at some male responses, and THEY are grossly sexist.

emil.y, Wednesday, 20 March 2013 14:18 (1 year ago) Permalink

Perfectly acceptable to publicly out jerks.

Jeff, Wednesday, 20 March 2013 14:20 (1 year ago) Permalink

apparently the joke made was "I'd like to fork his repo!" which the joke-maker then went on to claim had no sexual connotation on one of those links despite sexual connotation being the sole reason why that format of joke came into being in the first place

Darth Icky (DJP), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 14:23 (1 year ago) Permalink

I don't think going "lol, big dongles" is the sign of being a jerk, though. But then I have an incredibly puerile sense of humour.

emil.y, Wednesday, 20 March 2013 14:23 (1 year ago) Permalink

Their employer might have overreacted, but if they were there on company business, they were sitting behind what appears to be one of the only women in the room and making sexually-charged "jokes" probably violates their employer's code of conduct. She is totally within her rights to do what she did, because I really don't think confronting them would do anything constructive other than get the kind of nasty responses she's received on twitter and in comments.

Were it me, I'd probably turn around and give them a dirty look or tell them to knock it off, but they'd more likely see me as a peer, not because I'm a developer and around their age, but because I'm male.

☠ ☃ ☠ (mh), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 14:24 (1 year ago) Permalink

Writes about it on her blog.
http://butyoureagirl.com/14015/forking-and-dongle-jokes-dont-belong-at-tech-conferences/

Get the impression that it wouldn't have been an issue had the jokes actually been funny.

tsrobodo, Wednesday, 20 March 2013 14:26 (1 year ago) Permalink

i doubt dude was fired *for being sexist* but more likely because he failed to represent his employer in a professional manner at an industry event, which is a pretty solid grounds for dismissal imho.

open the blood gates (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 14:28 (1 year ago) Permalink

My first question isn't "Is this sexist?", it's "Is he 5?"

lets just remember to blame the patriarchy for (in orbit), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 14:32 (1 year ago) Permalink

So much of the commenting is, as usual, people projecting their biases on the situation, but one of the guys in the picture managed to stick with it and say that she was within her rights and that he was sorry, at which point she wrote that she felt him being fired was an overreaction and that she'd be glad to speak to his now ex-employer. Which is great because the hacker news crowd piles on and then tells him he's wrong.

Anyone who dug into her updates and made some sort of "but, she plays Cards Against Humanity later at the conference, how can she claim to be offended?!?" comment should probably die in a fire

☠ ☃ ☠ (mh), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 14:41 (1 year ago) Permalink

this is tough since the harmless seeming beavis and buttheadedness of the jokes (as described so far) possibly masks how in context (and especially when only a few women present at the whole thing) those sort of jokes are indeed aggressive towards the women present.

ryan, Wednesday, 20 March 2013 14:41 (1 year ago) Permalink

@renejsum thank you. I did it for future generations who will attend as well

k3vin k., Wednesday, 20 March 2013 14:42 (1 year ago) Permalink

if I were a woman at these conferences I'd have a chip on my shoulder, too, considering we're still only a couple years out from some dude making "this code is hot" jokes punctuated by a slide that was just pictures of women in bikinis or w/e

☠ ☃ ☠ (mh), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 14:44 (1 year ago) Permalink

on the one hand, I think everyone has the right to work in the tech industry and not have to feel threatened by dumb sexual comments & jokes. otoh, lol, dongles

Heyman (crüt), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 14:45 (1 year ago) Permalink

Yes. I was half-heartedly writing a post saying that the reason these "jokes" exist is that public spaces/tech world/humor that's out there to consume are very often profoundly sexist and it leads to ANYONE thinking that this kind of commenting is even BASELINE ACCEPTABLE, much less makes you a totally cool dude. But it seemed like a lot of work and I haven't had any tea yet.

lets just remember to blame the patriarchy for (in orbit), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 14:45 (1 year ago) Permalink

Sorry, the "Yes" was to ryan.

lets just remember to blame the patriarchy for (in orbit), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 14:45 (1 year ago) Permalink

I think what bothers me most about this sort of thing is wanting a little more clarity on what is absolutely verboten. I'm an almost pathologically polite person in the workplace, so I'm rarely in a situation where I have to worry, but I've crossed the line once or twice and it can be confusing, especially when there are women in the office who make comments I wouldn't dare to make. It's also because I work with a bunch of old lawyers.

space phwoar (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 14:46 (1 year ago) Permalink

I think the expression "chip on her shoulder" is pretty unhelpful here, though--unless it was taken from her writing or s/thing? I haven't followed all the links.

lets just remember to blame the patriarchy for (in orbit), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 14:47 (1 year ago) Permalink

here's a hint on what is verboten: if you suddenly discover you have been talking about genitals, you have likely crossed a line

Darth Icky (DJP), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 14:49 (1 year ago) Permalink

Says DJP.

emil.y, Wednesday, 20 March 2013 14:51 (1 year ago) Permalink

dongle j. penis

Heyman (crüt), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 14:52 (1 year ago) Permalink

I'd actually carry a cinder block around on my shoulder, tbh.

☠ ☃ ☠ (mh), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 14:52 (1 year ago) Permalink

I mean, in the brief window years and years and years ago when I was single and in college, I had paralyzing fear of talking to women I didn't know who found attractive, partially because I didn't want to be rejected but mostly because I didn't want to be accused of sexual harassment, which given my incredibly crude sense of humor felt very much like a justifiable fear. Shortly after I began dating my future wife, I started hanging out with her female friends and realized something I already knew from my circle of friends back home but had forgotten; barriers come down when you get to know people and being willing to apologize and not repeat offenses if you cross someone's line is the definition of being a polite person. Furthermore, only an asshole allows whatever weird gross things they find funny affect the way they treat other people. If you give people the type of respect you want, you will likely get it; those who don't return it are the ones you should steer clear of, and it's that foundation of respect and understanding that gives you the ability to take light license with propriety because everyone involved understands that the communication isn't serious or in earnest, and that you don't actually think less of the person you are saying these socially inappropriate things to. You don't get to be That Person without putting in the prep work.

Darth Icky (DJP), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 14:56 (1 year ago) Permalink

in summation, lol dicks r funny <-- a joke 12 years in the making

Darth Icky (DJP), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 14:57 (1 year ago) Permalink

Lady found something uncomfortable and reported it. Any beef should be addressed to her employer.

i petted a bodega cat today. (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 14:58 (1 year ago) Permalink

Er, his employer

i petted a bodega cat today. (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 14:58 (1 year ago) Permalink

otm

Heyman (crüt), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 15:00 (1 year ago) Permalink

I think I agree with you there, yes. But whether or not you deserve to be publicly pilloried for failing to realise such things is different. Having said that, it looks like her initial tweets were directed to the staff requesting action on their part, as opposed to the initially linked tweet, which is more of a public shaming.

I definitely agree with people's observations that tech environments are not welcoming to women, and that that can escalate the feeling of hostility coming from otherwise innocuous comments. I am also hating the comments that say "oh, if you weren't so x about it then I might agree", because that is such bullshit regulation of female behaviour.

emil.y, Wednesday, 20 March 2013 15:01 (1 year ago) Permalink

gregory bateson says all communications are really communication relationships (and so a hungry meowing cat is really saying "dependency!")--and i think that insight really applies in this case. those jokes can communicate warmth and intimacy, friendship, trust, and then power, aggression, and hate.

ryan, Wednesday, 20 March 2013 15:01 (1 year ago) Permalink

xposts to djp there, sorry.

emil.y, Wednesday, 20 March 2013 15:01 (1 year ago) Permalink

xpost: communication about relationships.

ryan, Wednesday, 20 March 2013 15:01 (1 year ago) Permalink

judging from the comments it seems that 98% of all men absolutely HATE any suggestion that they should be more circumspect about where & when they try to deploy dumb bad sex jokes aimed at gaining the approval of other boring men

open the blood gates (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 15:02 (1 year ago) Permalink

Very well said, DJP!

I may not have actually read the "chip on (her) shoulder" phrase, but it's the stance that a lot of commenters seemed to take, which she did an excellent job of explaining that it was the social and not the personal she was interested in. I think that having a heightened sense of alert, which is exactly what people are trying to paint her with in a negative manner, would actually be a valid thing to have when these conferences have been historically hostile environments.

☠ ☃ ☠ (mh), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 15:03 (1 year ago) Permalink

"what do you mean I can't make crass puns about genitalia, WHAT ELSE am i supposed to talk about"

open the blood gates (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 15:04 (1 year ago) Permalink

OF COURSE I HAVE A CHIP ON MY SHOULDER WHEN YOU KEEP CHISELLING ME THERE.

emil.y, Wednesday, 20 March 2013 15:04 (1 year ago) Permalink

There's a lot to what dan says, there's a difference btwn saying something to someone directly, saying something about someone and them overhearing it, saying something about someone else and a third party overhearing it, etc.

unless these comments were hardline objectionable then imo tweeting their pic was overreaction, firing them is obv total overreaction.

mister borges (darraghmac), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 15:04 (1 year ago) Permalink

it's actually a bucket of stupid remarks, I've been collecting them my whole career

☠ ☃ ☠ (mh), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 15:05 (1 year ago) Permalink

"what do you mean I can't make crass puns about genitalia, WHAT ELSE am i supposed to talk about"

Sadly this is pretty much my situation in places where I don't know anyone. It's either dick jokes or krautrock, and I know which most people would prefer.

emil.y, Wednesday, 20 March 2013 15:06 (1 year ago) Permalink

The expression "chip on (the) shoulder" means that the person is carrying a grudge or is prejudiced in their interpretation of innocuous things because of their own experience...and there's an inherent judgment that the person is WRONG to be holding the grudge, that THEY making an error. So it's a poor choice of words when a woman asking for civility in a professional sphere is being called out for it.

xp that took so long to type out that you've all surpassed it already but anyway!

lets just remember to blame the patriarchy for (in orbit), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 15:07 (1 year ago) Permalink

i support public shaming for talking about krautrock

ryan, Wednesday, 20 March 2013 15:07 (1 year ago) Permalink

the other thing getting lost in the description of this whole thing is that, as far as I can tell from the accounts floating around, she turned around to have a conversation with one of these dudes and the guy who got fired joined in by making stupid sex jokes, which he then kept doing after she disengaged

so, it's not like she was sitting there and overheard someone saying something gross; dude introduced himself into her conversation with something gross

Darth Icky (DJP), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 15:08 (1 year ago) Permalink

ugh I just spent too long reading about this instead of doing any lol coding and I still don't know where I stand on this

I mean out of context it sounds an overreaction but I've certainly been in situations in the er "tech community" where such a remark would be, you know, straws, camels; and no, the actual joke itself doesn't seem that offensive but it's definitely immature (this guy is a father of 3?) and this brand of humour can be quite othering.

I do think it's not cool to take photos of other people to put on twitter with a note that they did something you didn't like, and that instead of doing so with a hashtag you hope the conference organisers will see, maybe you should just email said organisers privately, at least as a first resort? But yeah, my own biases etc etc

(off-topic, but I was livid the other week when I got photographed in public and said "hey I hope I wasn't in that photo" to the photographer who just stared right past me as if there had been a strange noise but nothing capable of sentient thought was in sight. When I think of all the subreddits my fat late-for-doctor's-appointment likeness might be gathering negative comments on right now...)

(about a billion xposts which I'm not going to read until after posting or there'll be a billion more)

susuwatari teenage riot (a passing spacecadet), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 15:09 (1 year ago) Permalink

Adria OTM in the comments: "They felt safe being anonymous in a crowd. I changed that power dynamic and this is what the uproar is really about."

open the blood gates (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 15:10 (1 year ago) Permalink

you would think, given the special snowflakism of 90s/00s child-rearing, people would be celebrating the realization that they are never really anonymous

Darth Icky (DJP), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 15:12 (1 year ago) Permalink

xp True.

lets just remember to blame the patriarchy for (in orbit), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 15:12 (1 year ago) Permalink

Xp to djp, thks, then yeah he's a dick, still disagree with twitter as public complaints mechanism tho

mister borges (darraghmac), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 15:13 (1 year ago) Permalink

I mean this is probably a side-effect of living in the US as a minority and actually understanding the ramifications of slavery and how it directly impacted my family tree but anyone who expects a right to privacy in this country is deluded

Darth Icky (DJP), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 15:13 (1 year ago) Permalink

in orbit, we're talking past again. I used the phrase because that is exactly the standpoint these people are projecting on her. I do not believe she has "a chip on her shoulder," these individuals are saying exactly what you defined. I'm saying that their accusations hold no weight to me, because what they paint as overreaction I say is sadly needed.

☠ ☃ ☠ (mh), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 15:14 (1 year ago) Permalink

i hope ppl can understand how "she should have confronted them directly first / she reacted the wrong way" is incredibly patronizing argument right

open the blood gates (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 15:15 (1 year ago) Permalink

But, yes, I'm not allowed to reclaim this for anyone, sure

☠ ☃ ☠ (mh), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 15:15 (1 year ago) Permalink

I would like to think confronting them directly, or even just going back to the staff and saying "these guys said something offensive" would have done something, but I think that maybe letting this dialogue play out where it's publicly visible has some definite pros

☠ ☃ ☠ (mh), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 15:17 (1 year ago) Permalink

I know you don't believe that!! Jeez, you're not a monster. Just that even bringing the language into a discussion sets up a straw man, that she IS prejudiced in her interpretation even if you support her. She might be or she might not be, but we don't need to know that to rule sexual comments indefensible.

lets just remember to blame the patriarchy for (in orbit), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 15:18 (1 year ago) Permalink

true, no need to give the haters any weight by using their language

☠ ☃ ☠ (mh), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 15:20 (1 year ago) Permalink

Xp to djp, thks, then yeah he's a dick, still disagree with twitter as public complaints mechanism tho

I don't think disagreeing with her posting to Twitter is inherently wrong or problematic. I do think that different people handle situations in different ways and it's very telling to me that the dude who got fired is more upset about his characterization than the fact that his picture was posted.

Dude was a moron who should have shut up. I am semi-shocked, though, that any credible US company wouldn't put him through the probation wringer before termination, particularly since that's the type of HR policy expressly designed to deal with situations like this, which points back to this dude being Villain of the Week and his company being the Big Bad that both fostered his behavior and then terminated him over it with little to no warning, unless of course dude was already on probation for some bullshit like this in which case lol.

Darth Icky (DJP), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 15:22 (1 year ago) Permalink

Surely there's a small gap btwn 100% cheerleading and 'incredibly patronizing' elmo?

mister borges (darraghmac), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 15:23 (1 year ago) Permalink

i don't really have a problem with twitter-shaming someone over a bad joke, regardless. but also i have no idea how this would spiral beyond this. its not coming from the podium or anything, and dumb puns are a huuuge world away from really violating any serious code of conduct.

so there's a v. important tool for theorem proving out of france that is called 'coq' and pronounced just how one would imagine. it is actually a clever pun on someone's name plus a tradition of naming certain software after animals plus a common abbreviation for the 'calculus of constructions (coc)'. there are conferences that are full of stuff done with coq, etc. and it is just impossible to have conversations about this without completely inadvertently introducing dumb jokes all over the place. there's like an elaborate etiquette about how to try to avoid doing it too much, and since its so easy to accidentally say something risque, the idea of doing it on purpose is really frowned on since it basically shows you haven't been working with this tool long enough to be sick of those jokes. but at the same point, if someone does say something accidentally quite dirty, there's no shame in sort of making some gesture towards pointing it out.

the same thing happens often to mathemeticians who work with p-adic numbers, since there's a thing that people refer to as the 'p-ness' of the number, and it takes freaking forever to get over laughing when it comes up. that one is arguably easier to describe differently, but i think people even when they don't find it hilarious, like silly names, and so they really don't try to.

s.clover, Wednesday, 20 March 2013 15:25 (1 year ago) Permalink

To confront ppl, esp in public, you have to either feel powerful enough that you feel confident of winning, or you have to be so desperate that you don't have anything to lose. The situ is by definition not the first, and NO ONE should be in the second in a professional capacity. Or in life, one hopes, but... To suggest that the "correct" or better solution to a problem is the confrontation one assumes that the person has, and *feels they have*, enough power to be taken seriously, backed up by bystanders, which is assuming a lot considering the assailant felt comfortable making the joke in the FIRST damn place.

lets just remember to blame the patriarchy for (in orbit), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 15:27 (1 year ago) Permalink

I was going to try to guess whether the fired guy worked at a larger company or a start-up, but the gold sponsor list is huge: https://us.pycon.org/2013/sponsors/

☠ ☃ ☠ (mh), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 15:28 (1 year ago) Permalink

idk, i mean if i were at a tech conference i would think posting a hashtagged tweet would be a pretty effective way to get the organizers' attention, and it worked. she used the resources available to her to address the issue and to not further disrupt the event she was attending

putting the burden of responsibility on ANYONE to confront & police the people who make them uncomfortable is a grossly unfair stanard imho.

in orbit OTM xp

open the blood gates (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 15:28 (1 year ago) Permalink

occasionally people will joke about meetings devoted to coq as a 'coq-fest' but you can basically only make that joke once or twice a year and nobody is allowed to do more than politely chuckle.

s.clover, Wednesday, 20 March 2013 15:29 (1 year ago) Permalink

Surely there's a small gap btwn 100% cheerleading and 'incredibly patronizing' elmo?

I recognize my ego well enough to know that most if not all of the time when I am thinking "that person shouldn't have done that" what I actually mean is "I wouldn't have done it that way" because obviously the way I handle things is 100% correct and unimpeachable and ppl who deviate from my eminently sensible plans are really taking their lives into their own hands

I also recognize how much of that is informed by social construct and how accidents of birth and social status have placed me in different places in that social construct depending on the audience because I try very hard not to let my ego make me into a raging dick

Darth Icky (DJP), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 15:29 (1 year ago) Permalink

the person has, and *feels they have*, enough power to be taken seriously, backed up by bystanders

Actually I should have added, "or will make the behavior/abuse WORSE by confronting it" because sometimes the worst fear is that the thing you already find embarrassing, offensive, or intimidating will be ratcheted up by your complaint. Which as you can imagine happens COMMONLY.

lets just remember to blame the patriarchy for (in orbit), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 15:31 (1 year ago) Permalink

Agree totally that she shouldnt have been expected to confront him/them fwiw, xps to in orbit throughout

mister borges (darraghmac), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 15:33 (1 year ago) Permalink

re s. clover's coq/p-ness examples: IMO the reason those are funny, though, is because they sound like something they aren't (ditto Uranus humor). Going out of your way to make labored coq jokes both leeches the humor from the statement and introduces the gross power dynamic.

One of the funniest stories ever told to me by one of my college choir directors was about an experience he had directing a high school girls' honor choir put together for an ACDA convention many years ago; dude's method for teaching music was to use percussive syllables like "doo" and "pum" to get to the core of the rhythm and tuning of the music and then put the text back in once the foundation was solid. He also had the bad habit when demonstrating this technique of arbitrarily switching back and for between nonsense syllables and lyrics, which wouldn't be a big deal were it not for the song he was rehearsing containing the word "happiness" and well I think everyone can see were this is going.

Darth Icky (DJP), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 15:34 (1 year ago) Permalink

lol wait did she fp them from their jobs

mister borges (darraghmac), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 15:35 (1 year ago) Permalink

The other day I actually got mocked by an older female partner for being too delicate when discussing the allegations of a sexual harassment lawsuit that had been in the news. Then again, an older male partner cornered me and another associate and said stuff like "let's face it, women under 25 are dumb" and "come on, you can't consent and then change your mind"

In conclusion, I'm glad to be working in the 21st century, and it will hopefully be even better when that generation dies.

space phwoar (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 15:36 (1 year ago) Permalink

are we no longer allowed to make jokes about uranus?!?

乒乓, Wednesday, 20 March 2013 15:39 (1 year ago) Permalink

uranus maybe, not mine

☠ ☃ ☠ (mh), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 15:39 (1 year ago) Permalink

get real, there has never been a planet called 'mine'

乒乓, Wednesday, 20 March 2013 15:41 (1 year ago) Permalink

myanus

☠ ☃ ☠ (mh), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 15:42 (1 year ago) Permalink

lol wait did she fp them from their jobs

in essence yeah, for the dude who was being dumb

Darth Icky (DJP), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 15:43 (1 year ago) Permalink

so there is a story about cathy o'neil giving a talk where she's talking about the p-ness of numbers and sort of enjoying the puns a great deal and somebody asks her if she can change the notation, so she says 'how about we replace the p with an a'.

sorry for gumming up the thread with terrible puns.

s.clover, Wednesday, 20 March 2013 15:44 (1 year ago) Permalink

haha amazing

Darth Icky (DJP), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 15:45 (1 year ago) Permalink

uranus maybe, not mine

― ☠ ☃ ☠ (mh), Wednesday, March 20, 2013 11:39 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

But if there were a fur involved, you could joke about uranus ermine

space phwoar (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 15:49 (1 year ago) Permalink

"she reacted the wrong way" is incredibly patronizing argument right

Hm. I guess so. Trying to work out if I have any reason other than hypocrisy to see men policing her emotional response as derailing but still (as a woman and within the same industry fwiw) feel that she should've lodged a complaint some other way.

I mean I do see that without the public tweet and the photo this would not be a viral/teachable moment and maybe those quiet unteachable moments I am apparently so keen on happen every day without me even knowing and what does that even help, etc.

I have to admit my unease in this is partly that there are so many really obvious gender imbalances in IT that making a fuss about a dongle joke will make the stereotypical male coder less interested, not more, in conversation about equality. But I do know there are many things wrong with this thought: 1. who made me, or anyone, universal arbiter of what should or shouldn't be talked about? 2. if anyone takes away from this "bitches can't take a joke", well, fuck them forever anyway; 3. shouldn't people see the little papercuts we get a thousand of every day as well as the big - uh - this sentence is heading dangerously close to a vulval innuendo, reverse, reverse

tl;dr still conflicted, taking everyone's points that my reservations are inherently narcissistic and entitled, but also wondering whether it's OK to express any doubts about anything within that framework

susuwatari teenage riot (a passing spacecadet), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 15:54 (1 year ago) Permalink

taking everyone's points that my reservations are inherently narcissistic and entitled, but also wondering whether it's OK to express any doubts about anything within that framework

absolutely because the beauty of that framework is that, since you are the most important person in the universe, your doubts have Meaning

Darth Icky (DJP), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 15:56 (1 year ago) Permalink

i hope ppl can understand how "she should have confronted them directly first / she reacted the wrong way" is incredibly patronizing argument right

― open the blood gates (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, March 20, 2013 11:15 AM (44 minutes ago)

so...she turned around, said something to them, and snapped a picture, all with them knowing. i'd say she confronted them

k3vin k., Wednesday, 20 March 2013 16:00 (1 year ago) Permalink

i mean they were sitting BEHIND her. i think physically turning around and taking their picture counts as a 'confrontation'

k3vin k., Wednesday, 20 March 2013 16:05 (1 year ago) Permalink

she turned around to engage one dude in a conversation related to the conference and the dude who got fired chimed in with gross dick jokes, which led to her taking the picture if I'm reading the order of events correctly

Darth Icky (DJP), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 16:09 (1 year ago) Permalink

i'm sort of lost as to whether she told them to shut up first or just went straight to picture-taking, but my question is if you're going to gather the (considerable!) courage to take the idiot's picture and post it to twitter, why not just turn around and tell him to shut up first? i mean if i were in the audience near them and she told them to grow up or shut up or whatever, i'd be like "otm", but if she just turned around and snapped a picture i'd be more like "huh, that just happened"

xp

k3vin k., Wednesday, 20 March 2013 16:11 (1 year ago) Permalink

right, i just think there's this unjustified assumption that if she said e.g. "excuse me but your jokes are crude and distracting and are making me uncomfortable, please stop" that the dude would have actually stopped, and further that she was somehow *obliged* to do this first before any other response

open the blood gates (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 16:13 (1 year ago) Permalink

right maybe not "obliged" in the formal sense but more, you're an adult, come on

k3vin k., Wednesday, 20 March 2013 16:15 (1 year ago) Permalink

and again the details of what actually happened are a little hazy so who knows

k3vin k., Wednesday, 20 March 2013 16:15 (1 year ago) Permalink

like i am fairly confident in assuming certain that she AT LEAST gave him the stink eye

open the blood gates (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 16:16 (1 year ago) Permalink

ha yeah

k3vin k., Wednesday, 20 March 2013 16:17 (1 year ago) Permalink

but more, you're an adult, come on

This is exactly the patronizing part. Why is it on an affected bystander to tell someone who is supposed to be "an adult" in a professional environ to stop being unprofessional/offensive/puerile in the "right" way? Even before starting to unpack the part where she's a woman confronting a man in public.

lets just remember to blame the patriarchy for (in orbit), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 16:19 (1 year ago) Permalink

her account of what happened is here: http://butyoureagirl.com/14015/forking-and-dongle-jokes-dont-belong-at-tech-conferences/

afaict the dude who got fired is not disputing this order of events, so right now I believe that she was having a conversation with one dude who made a comment that dumbass then used to make a sexual joke off the phrase "forking the repo"; she broke off the conversation and dude continued making dick jokes about dongles while the speaker onstage was talking about reaching out to young women to get them interested in coding at a young age

Darth Icky (DJP), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 16:29 (1 year ago) Permalink

not only by telling her to just confront him directly are we making an assumption that it'd do anything, we're ignoring the fact that maybe she's done this in the past, or she wanted to make this a situation more about the tone of the conference than about a particular individual's mediocre judgment. One guy making a comment isn't really an issue, but bringing it to the attention of the conference makes it their call, not her's.

☠ ☃ ☠ (mh), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 16:33 (1 year ago) Permalink

fwiw he claims that "I'd fork his repo" or whatever was not a directly sexual joke but rather a slangy approval, but otoh admits to the dongle thing

space phwoar (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 16:34 (1 year ago) Permalink

and doing it publicly, like I mentioned before, allows others to see how the conference organizers react and keeps the whole thing above the table

☠ ☃ ☠ (mh), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 16:34 (1 year ago) Permalink

fwiw he claims that "I'd fork his repo" or whatever was not a directly sexual joke but rather a slangy approval

it's worth nothing because that is an inherently stupid argument along the lines of saying "*random person or thing* sucks" has nothing to do with oral sex or that saying something is "gay" is unrelated to homosexuality

Darth Icky (DJP), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 16:36 (1 year ago) Permalink

I didn't make the connection btwn "sucks" and oral sex for a long, long time

Heyman (crüt), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 16:39 (1 year ago) Permalink

sexual innuendo is built into the foundation and structure of the joke, otherwise there wouldn't actually be a joke there but rather someone saying something entirely nonsensical and meaningless

which I mean slang like that does occur but my experience with it has been in the form of taking words like "futon" and making them into general exclamations rather than taking a joke formation explicitly known for having sexual connotations and claiming that your usage of it has none, particularly when the verb you're using sounds like "fuck"

Darth Icky (DJP), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 16:39 (1 year ago) Permalink

it's like the conversation we (meaning the 8 black students) had to have with another one of my choir directors about how he really needed to stop telling the group that we were being niggardly with dynamics during rehearsals; we're all at Harvard, we all know what the word means and where it came from, but we all also have vocabularies big enough to avoid the appearance of evil and we're undergrads and he was working on a PhD so what was his excuse

Darth Icky (DJP), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 16:42 (1 year ago) Permalink

See I agree that you can't just expect women as a minority-in-tech to have the confidence (in themselves, or in the frankly unlikely chances of the encounter having the desired result) to turn round and explain their dissatisfaction, so I didn't say or think she should have done that

bringing it to the attention of the conference makes it their call, not hers

OK, this makes sense, because that was all I was thinking of! It would be not just more "polite", which I agree is patronising bullshit policing, but also more accessible to confrontation-averse women who might also think they risked physical escalation if they got their camera out, or that Twitter might not be an instant source of yea-sayers for them

I guess I allowed myself to think that because the men were called up for contravening the harrassment rules the conference's call was already the same as hers, but it would have been too easy to ignore before she made it public

and yes I do prefer this to the argument that expressing any doubts about anyone else's actions is entitled and patronising (which it is, and I would do well to remember that more, but it's also what we're all doing here, whichever "side" anyone's on)

susuwatari teenage riot (a passing spacecadet), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 16:52 (1 year ago) Permalink

Having doubts about anyone's actions in any scenario ever is not nec patronizing. Making it an ish that a person in a non-priviliged group didn't do a thing the same way a privileged person would have, or thinks they would have, is the problem.

lets just remember to blame the patriarchy for (in orbit), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 16:59 (1 year ago) Permalink

fwiw here's the conference's official statement regarding the matter:

http://pycon.blogspot.com/2013/03/pycon-response-to-inappropriate.html

open the blood gates (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 17:15 (1 year ago) Permalink

Lol at the comment

Darth Icky (DJP), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 17:18 (1 year ago) Permalink

i don't understand why 'don't be an asshole' is such a difficult rule for tech bros to follow. YET IT SEEMS TO BE.

maura, Wednesday, 20 March 2013 17:22 (1 year ago) Permalink

Growing up developing electronics rather than social skills, a computer won't tell you you are being an asshole. You need to hear that stuff.

Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 17:46 (1 year ago) Permalink

I'm glad I was raised by ILX and not some other message board. who knows what sort of jackassery I'd be committing right now.

Heyman (crüt), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 17:48 (1 year ago) Permalink

btw I got off on the wrong foot w/this because whatever I read first made me think two guys were having a private moronic conversation between friends, not that tweeter + guy 1 were having a perfectly civil conversation when guy 2 started his "huh huh, dicks" routine at both of them and then wouldn't shut up when she signalled her dissatisfaction. when I read this later I was like "well that changes things a bit" when I should actually have thought "well that changes things completely"

also DJP's comment re egos was totally OTM but it pushed a button re something unrelated I've been thinking abt lately plus the implied "unlike some other people here" before "I try very hard not to let my ego make me into a raging dick" rubbed me the wrong way so I apologise for going off on that conflated w/ elmo's "patronising" comment

going to sign up for lessons on not letting my ego make me into a raging dick in future

susuwatari teenage riot (a passing spacecadet), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 18:11 (1 year ago) Permalink

our jackassery is cheeky and witty xp

btw spacecadet, it's not that it was "harassment" as much as talking like that is inappropriate and contributes to a hostile environment. No one was specifically targeted, as far as I can tell nobody made any comments specifically because they were sitting near someone who might be offended.

☠ ☃ ☠ (mh), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 18:13 (1 year ago) Permalink

haha I am so sorry, I was going for an implied "despite what my behavior would lead you to believe"!

Darth Icky (DJP), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 18:14 (1 year ago) Permalink

can we please stop saying "raging dick"

☠ ☃ ☠ (mh), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 18:16 (1 year ago) Permalink

haha

open the blood gates (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 18:21 (1 year ago) Permalink

DJP don't be sorry, that and your post about expectations of privacy were useful new perspectives on things which had been bothering me lately (or, how I began to realise that howling daily on the IA thread about other people's behaviour is a sign that I need to check my own ego and also calm the hell down)

mh, it's not that after 15 years as an ugly shy woman in the IT industry I have never felt fucking sick of the all-lads-together banter and the big "you don't belong here" flags it puts up but unable to say so: I do totally get that nobody needs to be specifically targeted to feel excluded by that stuff. but I also think you probably don't need to spend very long at a programming conference to hear something worse than dongle jokes, and while it would be great if even the dongle jokes didn't exist, if it had been a private conversation (which it wasn't) I think that would have been a completely different case, yes

obviously there are levels, like of course a "private conversation" of rape jokes behind a woman should still be called out, and no I don't know where I'd draw the line

susuwatari teenage riot (a passing spacecadet), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 18:36 (1 year ago) Permalink

^ otm font

mister borges (darraghmac), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 18:45 (1 year ago) Permalink

firing them is obv total overreaction.

The correct pronunciation is "AWESOME overreaction", I think you'll find.

Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 20 March 2013 21:19 (1 year ago) Permalink

*checks*

no

mister borges (darraghmac), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 21:40 (1 year ago) Permalink

but dmac a guy who wasn't an internet feminist lost his job

k3vin k., Wednesday, 20 March 2013 21:47 (1 year ago) Permalink

sorry that was dickish. anyway the weight of the evidence seems to support my original assumption that taking a picture of the idiot was kind of weird

k3vin k., Wednesday, 20 March 2013 21:48 (1 year ago) Permalink

thanks for not putting me on this thread everyone

maura, Thursday, 21 March 2013 03:35 (1 year ago) Permalink

Wait til you see how much fun the ones about gender politics are.

lets just remember to blame the patriarchy for (in orbit), Thursday, 21 March 2013 04:26 (1 year ago) Permalink

or the ones where white straighties offer us their moral rubric on hiv disclosure

Woody Ellen (Matt P), Thursday, 21 March 2013 04:30 (1 year ago) Permalink

We have all of the fun here on the internet.

lets just remember to blame the patriarchy for (in orbit), Thursday, 21 March 2013 04:30 (1 year ago) Permalink

we do!

Woody Ellen (Matt P), Thursday, 21 March 2013 04:31 (1 year ago) Permalink

ilx is p tame as far as these things go really

my god i only have 2 useless beyblade (silby), Thursday, 21 March 2013 04:32 (1 year ago) Permalink

wite straighty is my yahoo handle

mister borges (darraghmac), Thursday, 21 March 2013 08:40 (1 year ago) Permalink

but on AIM i'm privileged1

mister borges (darraghmac), Thursday, 21 March 2013 08:41 (1 year ago) Permalink

No, definitely awesome - there are overreactions all over the place (see as noted the comments to this and everything), it's awesome to see one pointing in the right direction.

Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 21 March 2013 10:19 (1 year ago) Permalink

Thats not how shitty overreaction aggregation works imo but i can see the point

mister borges (darraghmac), Thursday, 21 March 2013 10:35 (1 year ago) Permalink

I and two other dad associates got called "wimpy" today by a female partner for wanting to be able to see our kids every day. Like I said, I'm glad that the older generation is going to die.

space phwoar (Hurting 2), Thursday, 21 March 2013 14:00 (1 year ago) Permalink

have you ever seen the tv show Damages, Hurting?

☠ ☃ ☠ (mh), Thursday, 21 March 2013 14:13 (1 year ago) Permalink

Should tweet her obv

mister borges (darraghmac), Thursday, 21 March 2013 14:23 (1 year ago) Permalink

;)

space phwoar (Hurting 2), Thursday, 21 March 2013 14:49 (1 year ago) Permalink

I and two other dad associates got called "wimpy" today by a female partner for wanting to be able to see our kids every day. Like I said, I'm glad that the older generation is going to die.

― space phwoar (Hurting 2), Thursday, March 21, 2013 10:00 AM (52 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Ugh.

how's life, Thursday, 21 March 2013 14:54 (1 year ago) Permalink

Yeah sickens me to see that type of ageism on ilx

mister borges (darraghmac), Thursday, 21 March 2013 15:07 (1 year ago) Permalink

Okay, so apparently Adria's workplace has been subject to vengeful DDoS attacks and now they've fired HER. What the...?

emil.y, Thursday, 21 March 2013 16:47 (1 year ago) Permalink

jesus christ

Darth Icky (DJP), Thursday, 21 March 2013 16:48 (1 year ago) Permalink

yeah just saw that, but I'm wondering if it might be fake? Just really hard for me to believe a company would be stupid enough to fire her over this.

space phwoar (Hurting 2), Thursday, 21 March 2013 16:48 (1 year ago) Permalink

http://venturebeat.com/2013/03/21/breaking-adria-richards-fired-by-sendgrid-for-outting-developers-on-twitter/

Does mention the possibility that the SendGrid twitter could've been hacked.

emil.y, Thursday, 21 March 2013 16:49 (1 year ago) Permalink

what the fuck is going on

Heyman (crüt), Thursday, 21 March 2013 16:55 (1 year ago) Permalink

(haha no i love this thread and everyone's RATIONALITY in it; yesterday i had an Incident Of Being Called Sexist and i was smarting a little bit)

maura, Thursday, 21 March 2013 16:56 (1 year ago) Permalink

Was it mentioned in this thread that she was making dick jokes on Twitter a couple of days before this?:

https://twitter.com/adriarichards/status/312265091791847425

‏@skwashd
I made it to US and A. I've received my traditional TSA welcoming - having my nuts fondled.

@adriarichards
@skwashd you should put something in your pants next time...like a bunch of socks inside one...large...sock. TSA agent faint

Walter Galt, Thursday, 21 March 2013 17:13 (1 year ago) Permalink

It has been mentioned *repeatedly* by tiring assholes who don't seem to understand the difference between a twitter feed and a conference. And I say this as someone who supports dongle jokes.

emil.y, Thursday, 21 March 2013 17:14 (1 year ago) Permalink

What does that have to do with anything other than prove the point that there is a context where off-color remarks are acceptable and one where they aren't?

xp: what emil.y said OTM

Darth Icky (DJP), Thursday, 21 March 2013 17:15 (1 year ago) Permalink

Fair enough. My issue with this thing, anyway, is that I don't think it's okay to take a direct picture of someone without their permission unless they're maybe in the act of committing a crime. I see that as a much greater violation of safety & privacy.

Walter Galt, Thursday, 21 March 2013 17:16 (1 year ago) Permalink

i just think it's hilarious that her lame blog has cloudfare and is doing a decent job of fending off the DDOS while sendgrid is nuked.

sanskrit, Thursday, 21 March 2013 17:16 (1 year ago) Permalink

sanskrit also OTM

Darth Icky (DJP), Thursday, 21 March 2013 17:18 (1 year ago) Permalink

DDoS attacks are so lame and petty.

Heyman (crüt), Thursday, 21 March 2013 17:18 (1 year ago) Permalink

welcome to the patriarchy, I guess.

Heyman (crüt), Thursday, 21 March 2013 17:18 (1 year ago) Permalink

I don't think it's okay to take a direct picture of someone without their permission unless they're maybe in the act of committing a crime. I see that as a much greater violation of safety & privacy.

― Walter Galt, Thursday, March 21, 2013 1:16 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

lol do u ever go outside then

乒乓, Thursday, 21 March 2013 17:18 (1 year ago) Permalink

Pig people are out in force on this comments thread: https://www.facebook.com/SendGrid/posts/10151502570463967

DavidM, Thursday, 21 March 2013 17:19 (1 year ago) Permalink

new face of corporate america. just keep your head down. if anyone mentions you for any reason ever -- chop.

s.clover, Thursday, 21 March 2013 17:20 (1 year ago) Permalink

'T____ H___ Check ur privieledge.

Mordy, Thursday, 21 March 2013 17:21 (1 year ago) Permalink

the difference between a twitter feed and a conference.

Thinking on this for a second - neither of these things is cut and dry at all. Very public conversation viewable to tens of thousands vs. overheard private conversation, etc.

Walter Galt, Thursday, 21 March 2013 17:22 (1 year ago) Permalink

i hope everyone involved sues everyone else involved until all the companies go bankrupt and their vcs go bankrupt and the banks that funded anyone go bankrupt and then a cleansing fire comes and burns babylon, burns it clean.

s.clover, Thursday, 21 March 2013 17:24 (1 year ago) Permalink

lol do u ever go outside then
― 乒乓, Thursday, March 21, 2013 5:18 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I don't get what you mean. I'm talking about taking direct photos of strangers. I see so many pics on Twitter and elsewhere where the poster has taken a pic of someone who looks funny on the tube or whatever - I think it's a serious asshole move.

Walter Galt, Thursday, 21 March 2013 17:24 (1 year ago) Permalink

i didn't know 'developer evangelist' was a kind of job now but apparently it is, perhaps that can go in the cleansing fire too

j., Thursday, 21 March 2013 17:25 (1 year ago) Permalink

Can we please stop mischaracterizing this as if she happened to overhear dude's gross jokes? According to her account, which was not disputed by the dude making the jokes, she was talking to one dude about how they both wished they were getting more out of that particular session, at which point the dude who got fired chimed in with his "I'd fork his repo!" joke, which set off this whole thing.

Darth Icky (DJP), Thursday, 21 March 2013 17:27 (1 year ago) Permalink

Walter, twitter is a place generally accepted as a tool for frivolous chatter, that conference was a professional environment with written rules about acceptable behaviour.

Also, it's been made clear that it wasn't an overheard private conversation.

GODDAMMIT I LIKE DONGLE JOKES STOP FORCING ME TO SHOW WHY THEY'RE NOT OKAY.

emil.y, Thursday, 21 March 2013 17:27 (1 year ago) Permalink

I don't think it's okay to take a direct picture of someone without their permission unless they're maybe in the act of committing a crime. I see that as a much greater violation of safety & privacy.

― Walter Galt, Thursday, March 21, 2013 1:16 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

wonder if any of these people rising up in favor of the right for dudes to be all cartman-on-maury look at reddit's creepshots threads

maura, Thursday, 21 March 2013 17:28 (1 year ago) Permalink

dongle dude got off light imo. should've been executed as a cultural enemy.

Mordy, Thursday, 21 March 2013 17:30 (1 year ago) Permalink

wonder if any of these people rising up in favor of the right for dudes to be all cartman-on-maury look at reddit's creepshots threads

I don't know what either of the things in the second half of that sentence means.
I think the characterisation of Twitter as "a place generally accepted as a tool for frivolous chatter" is some bullshit.
I think the guy's an asshole for making a joke like that to someone he didn't know. I think she's an asshole for taking a picture of someone she didn't know. I guess that's it.

Walter Galt, Thursday, 21 March 2013 17:35 (1 year ago) Permalink

http://venturebeat.com/2013/03/20/playhaven-developer-fired-for-making-sexual-jokes-after-sendgrids-developer-evangelist-outs-him-on-twitter/#Twsrfa4DheaGtsBE.99

"While I did make a big dongle joke about a fictional piece hardware that identified as male, no sexual jokes were made about forking. My friends and I had decided forking someone’s repo is a new form of flattery, the highest form being implementation, and we were excited about one of the presenters projects; a friend said “I would fork that guys repo.” The sexual context was applied by Adria, and not us."

that IS a pretty good joke about flattery

j., Thursday, 21 March 2013 17:37 (1 year ago) Permalink

I think the characterisation of Twitter as "a place generally accepted as a tool for frivolous chatter" is some bullshit.

Why?

emil.y, Thursday, 21 March 2013 17:37 (1 year ago) Permalink

playhaven builds a "mobile game ltv maximization platform" to "control your monetization."

sendgrid manages semi-spam email 'newsletter' services for marketing.

ok, sexism bad. but on a broader level, these companies need to be herded into that part of California that will fall into the ocean when the big earthquake hits.

s.clover, Thursday, 21 March 2013 17:38 (1 year ago) Permalink

Why?

People losing their jobs over dumb shit on twitter ain't unprecedented.

tsrobodo, Thursday, 21 March 2013 17:44 (1 year ago) Permalink

dongle dude got off light imo. should've been executed as a cultural enemy.

― Mordy, Thursday, March 21, 2013 1:30 PM (21 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol elmo if u don't want hostilities stop writing passive aggressive stupid strawman nonsense shit like "itt i learned that developing nations don't produce artists, thx mordy"

― Mordy, Thursday, March 21, 2013 11:34 AM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ARE YOU HIRING A NANNY OR A SHAMAN (Phil D.), Thursday, 21 March 2013 17:52 (1 year ago) Permalink

dongle dude got off light imo. should've been executed as a cultural enemy, thx phil.

Mordy, Thursday, 21 March 2013 17:54 (1 year ago) Permalink

People losing their jobs over dumb shit on twitter ain't unprecedented.

That doesn't actually address my question, but thanks anyway.

emil.y, Thursday, 21 March 2013 17:59 (1 year ago) Permalink

I find precedents to be a very important metric in careful evaluation regarding arbitrary human resources decisions of fuckwit employers.

s.clover, Thursday, 21 March 2013 18:06 (1 year ago) Permalink

That doesn't actually address my question, but thanks anyway.

Hey, I'm just guessing. Twitter is pretty much frivolous by definition but if you were arguing otherwise the blurred lines between professional/personal would be a likely angle.

tsrobodo, Thursday, 21 March 2013 18:28 (1 year ago) Permalink

Lot of people coming to the sexist threads based on a misreading of the title, just looking for some fellow feeling. Why do we have to be so cruel to them?

Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 21 March 2013 19:09 (1 year ago) Permalink

I'd feel a fellow. Haven't done that since college, but hey what the heck

how's life, Thursday, 21 March 2013 19:15 (1 year ago) Permalink

@sendgrid supports me

free username up for grabs

sanskrit, Thursday, 21 March 2013 19:23 (1 year ago) Permalink

OK I might've been outed as a tool of the patriarchy y/day when I thought it was a slight mountain-out-of-molehill situation but now it's a fucking mountain chain. only solution I can see is to execute everyone who has ever worked in IT. lying on the block right now, peace out guys

susuwatari teenage riot (a passing spacecadet), Thursday, 21 March 2013 19:26 (1 year ago) Permalink

:(

Jeff, Thursday, 21 March 2013 19:28 (1 year ago) Permalink

LOL @ dongle. what a stupid word

Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 21 March 2013 19:50 (1 year ago) Permalink

passive aggressively taking a photo of someone at a tech conference and putting it on twitter indicates someone with a bad personality imo

but maybe I am thinking of the time this guy at walgreens let me in line in front of him for some odd reason, and then got seriously angry that I didn't thank him PROFUSELY for doing such a wonderful gesture, that he said "unfucking-believable!" very loudly and took my photo and put it on twitter. I am under the bitch hashtag somewhere, pretty sure. It's just really classless.

homosexual II, Thursday, 21 March 2013 20:31 (1 year ago) Permalink

Careful you'll make andrew's sexist list

mister borges (darraghmac), Thursday, 21 March 2013 20:41 (1 year ago) Permalink

WOW at that dude.

Heyman (crüt), Thursday, 21 March 2013 20:44 (1 year ago) Permalink

maybe he is one of those very short term memory dudes who forgot he let you in front and then just saw you cut in line and has to twitter everything like that dude in memento or he'll forget, except instead of writing down what happened the only thing he twitters is "unfucking-believable" about 50x a day.

Philip Nunez, Thursday, 21 March 2013 20:50 (1 year ago) Permalink

or.. maybe he is a giant ass

Darth Icky (DJP), Thursday, 21 March 2013 20:51 (1 year ago) Permalink

dude don't spoil memento

Philip Nunez, Thursday, 21 March 2013 20:52 (1 year ago) Permalink

Homo, he probably can't believe you didn't gratefully fellate him for doing you that massive favour. Please tell me you reported the guy for abuse/spam?

karl lagerlout (suzy), Thursday, 21 March 2013 20:52 (1 year ago) Permalink

Well now we all know about him and agree he's a total asshole so unless you can get his photo too this is probably the best internet justice you will get.

Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 21 March 2013 21:43 (1 year ago) Permalink

I am under the bitch hashtag somewhere, pretty sure.

tempting display name opportunity imo

dat neggy nilmar (wins), Thursday, 21 March 2013 21:49 (1 year ago) Permalink

you cant report someone for spam irl

purp (roxymuzak), Thursday, 21 March 2013 21:55 (1 year ago) Permalink

to be clear, you can report hormel, if they're doing something illegal.

Woody Ellen (Matt P), Thursday, 21 March 2013 21:58 (1 year ago) Permalink

@sendgrid supports me

http://blog.sendgrid.com/a-difficult-situation/

diamonddave85, Thursday, 21 March 2013 22:53 (1 year ago) Permalink

Publicly shaming the offenders – and bystanders – was not the appropriate way to handle the situation.

No I think it's a pretty good idea actually, fuck you sendgrid

my god i only have 2 useless beyblade (silby), Thursday, 21 March 2013 23:40 (1 year ago) Permalink

The terrorists have already won.

s.clover, Friday, 22 March 2013 02:04 (1 year ago) Permalink

Do not ask for whom the eagle cries.

s.clover, Friday, 22 March 2013 02:05 (1 year ago) Permalink

Wondering how appropriate it is for this company and the men who work there to decide what is an appropriate way to react to misogyny when it's happening in front of a woman.

karl lagerlout (suzy), Friday, 22 March 2013 02:11 (1 year ago) Permalink

^^^^^

my god i only have 2 useless beyblade (silby), Friday, 22 March 2013 02:23 (1 year ago) Permalink

this is making the rounds now: https://amandablumwords.wordpress.com/2013/03/21/3/

s.clover, Friday, 22 March 2013 02:38 (1 year ago) Permalink

I emailed SendGrid via friends who worked there to inform them of the pattern: when Adria is offended, she doesn’t work within the community to resolve the problem, and how ultimately,it actually harms female developers because it forms the perception that we are to be feared, we are humorless, that we are hard to work with. I suggested that SendGrid had the resources to retrain her and teach her better techniques and that I hoped they would choose that path instead of penalty to her. This morning, they went the other way, SendGrid posted that she was no longer with the company.

Mordy, Friday, 22 March 2013 02:45 (1 year ago) Permalink

ick

my god i only have 2 useless beyblade (silby), Friday, 22 March 2013 03:00 (1 year ago) Permalink

Something in the article stuck out like an infected zit on the end of a programmer's nose:

There’s a gentleman’s code for privacy

Gentlemen's agreements and codes are opaque and homosocial. Women never prosper when this kind of thing is in force, and women who cite them to a more outspoken woman to criticise her for speaking are at best apologists for sexism, and at worst, total tools of patriarchy. I would also argue that it is not a woman's responsibility to assuage men's irrational perceptions about their female colleagues, in addition to her actual job. Adria seems to me to be someone who has on numerous occasions expressed, in public, what her boundaries are so it could be argued that her employers already knew she was unlikely to suffer misogynist foolishness gladly, regardless of whether it is cryptic or overt.

karl lagerlout (suzy), Friday, 22 March 2013 03:07 (1 year ago) Permalink

http://butyoureagirl.com/14015/forking-and-dongle-jokes-dont-belong-at-tech-conferences/

just for posterity for those who haven't read, i'll post her account of what went down.

Have you ever had a group of men sitting right behind you making joke that caused you to feel uncomfortable? Well, that just happened this week but instead of shrinking down in my seat, I did something about it an here’s my story…
Yesterday, I publicly called out a group of guys at the PyCon conference who were not being respectful to the community.
For those of you visiting from Hacker News from the tweet and from this post, thanks for stopping by. Enjoy the context.
I tweeted a photo of the guys behind me:

I publicly asked for help with addressing the problem:

I tweeted the PyCon Code of Conduct page and began to contacting the PyCon staff via text message:

and I’m happy to say that PyCon responded quickly not just with words but with action and a public response:

What I will share with you here is the backstory that led to this –
The guy behind me to the far left was saying he didn’t find much value from the logging session that day. I agreed with him so I turned around and said so. He then went onto say that an earlier session he’d been to where the speaker was talking about images and visualization with Python was really good, even if it seemed to him the speaker wasn’t really an expert on images. He said he would be interested in forking the repo and continuing development.
That would have been fine until the guy next to him…
began making sexual forking jokes
I was going to let it go. It had been a long week. A long month. I’d been on the road since mid February attending and speaking at conferences. PyCon was my 5th and final conference before heading home.
I know it’s important to pick my battles.
I know I don’t have to be a hero in every situation.
Sometimes I just want to go to a conference and be a geek.
But…
like Popeye, I couldn’t “stands it no more” because of what happened –
Jesse Noller was up on stage thanking the sponsors. The guys behind me (one off to the right) said, “You can thank me, you can thank me”. That told me they were a sponsoring company of Pycon and from the photos I took, his badge had an add-on that said, “Sponsor”.
My company was a Gold sponsor as well.
They started talking about “big” dongles. I could feel my face getting flustered.
Was this really happening?
How many times do I have to deal with this?
Can they not hear what Jesse is saying?
The stuff about the dongles wasn’t even logical and as a self professed nerd, that bothered me. Dongles are intended to be small and unobtrusive. They’re intended for network connectivity and to service as physical licence keys for software. I’d consulted in the past with an automotive shop that needed data recovery and technical support. I know what PCMCIA dongles look like.
I was telling myself if they made one more sexual joke, I’d say something.
The it happened….The trigger.
Jesse was on the main stage with thousands of people sitting in the audience. He was talking about helping the next generation learn to program and how happy PyCon was with the Young Coders workshop (which I volunteered at). He was mentioning that the PyLadies auction had raised $10,000 in a single night and the funds would be used the funds for their initiatives.
I saw a photo on main stage of a little girl who had been in the Young Coders workshop.
I realized I had to do something or she would never have the chance to learn and love programming because the ass clowns behind me would make it impossible for her to do so.
I calculated my next steps. I knew there wasn’t a lot of time and the closing session would be wrapping up. I considered:
The type of event
The size of the audience
How the conference had emphasized their Code of Conduct
What I knew about the community and their diversity initiatives
How to address this issue effectively and not disrupt the main stage
Added 3/19: Description and photo of ballroom
The ballroom was huge. Here’s a photo from that morning of the keynote speaker, Guido van Rossum, creator of Python. Each section was 12 seats wide and 20 rows deep with six sections (front and back) in the ballroom. I would estimate it held over 1,000 people that afternoon. I was located approximately 10 rows deep from the front right screen in the top-right section and about 5 seats in from the aisle on the left of the section.

(Math inclined folks: feel free to provide your estimates on how many people the ballroom held in the comments.)
Accountability was important. These guys sitting right behind me felt safe in the crowd. I got that and realized that being anonymous was fueling their behaviour. This is known as Deindividualization:
Deindividuation is a concept in social psychology that is generally thought of as the losing of self-awareness in groups. Theories of deindividuation propose that it is a psychological state of decreased self-evaluation and decreased evaluation apprehension causing antinormative and disinhibited behavior.
Deindividuation theory seeks to provide an explanation for a variety of antinormative collective behavior, such as violent crowds, lynch mobs, etc. Deindividuation theory has also been applied to genocide and been posited as an explanation for antinormative behavior online and in computer-mediated communications.
It very much reminded me of Lord Of the Flies. I decided to put out the fire at the base.
PyCon has gone to great efforts to position themselves as a conference that everyone is welcome to attend according to their homepage:
PyCon is the largest annual gathering for the community using and developing the open-source Python programming language. PyCon is organized by the Python community for the community. We try to keep registration far cheaper than most comparable technology conferences, to keep PyCon accessible to the widest group possible.
and they go on to say:
PyCon is a diverse conference dedicated to providing an enjoyable experience to everyone. Our code of conduct is intended to help everyone maintain the PyCon spirit. We thank all attendees and staff for observing it.
I did a gut check and waited until Jesse finished introducing Diana who would be the new PyCon US chair for 2014. I stood up slowly, turned around and took three, clear photos. I said back down, did another gut check and started composing a tweet.
Three things came to me: act, speak and confront in the moment.
I decided to do things differently this time and didn’t say anything to them directly. I was a guest in the Python community and as such, I wanted to give PyCon the opportunity to address this.
A few minutes later, one of the PyCon staff member approached to the left. I stood up, went outside to talk with him and explain the situation with a few of the other PyCon staff. They had seen my tweet. After explaining, they wanted to pull the people in question from the main ballroom. I walked back in with the PyCon staff and point them out one by one and they were escorted to the hallway.
As I walked back to my seat, I cannot tell you how proud I was of the PyCon and Python community at the very moment for keeping their word to make the conference a safe place to be. A bit shaken, I took my seat to continue watching the lightning talks. I sent an updated tweet that the situation was being dealt with and later on, PyCon tweeted they had addressed the issue.
For context, I’m a developer evangelist at a successful startup.
That means I’m an advocate for developers, male and female. I hear about demanding bosses with impossible deadlines for product launches and the overall experience of working at other startups firsthand.
I listen and offer suggestions, ideas and mentoring to help developers become problems solvers. Sometimes the answer is our API or not answering email after 7pm while other times it about being assertive and shedding impostor syndrome.
The forking joke set the stage for the dongle joke. Neither were funny.
What many of you don’t know is that this wasn’t the first time that day I had to address this issue around harassment and gender.
I had been talking with a developer after lunch in the hall and he told me he had made a joke. He had been looking for some boxes and said aloud that he was looking under the skirt (he had meant a table skirt) in the expo hall. A woman had “given him a look” and/or made a comment after he said this so he responded by saying “it was bare, just the way he liked it” as an innuendo for when women shave off all their pubic hair. I explained that while this could be funny, it was out of context because:
We were at a tech conference
There was a job fair going on
Women historically have felt unwelcome at tech conferences
PyCon was making a special effort to be welcoming to women
There were several women’s groups here (PyLadies, Women Who Code, CodeChix, Ada Initiative)
He was wearing company logos and that meant his actions and words carried on their behalf
….much further than his sense of humor ever would.
He disagreed. I urged him to talk to someone at the conference who worked for the same company who was a guy and who would understand this issue and potential for brand/reputation damage. We were able to discuss this because we were in the hallway, not a packed ballroom.
At a conference where it was was celebrated that 20% of attendees were women

it wasn’t the place to make “jokes” like this. I felt our chat went well (as well as could be expected) and headed on my way to more sessions and the final closing talks. Why did he share his joke with me? Maybe because I told him I’d just finished a 5 week stand up comedy class and he wanted to reciprocate. Maybe because my job as a developer evangelist means I spend a lot of time around male developers and he thought I would understand. What I did know is I needed to say something instead of laugh.
I have been to a lot of tech conferences and hackathons over the years. I’ve heard a lot of things said. That means I’m more desensitized than others but it doesn’t make it ok. Here I could go into all sorts of comparisons on things I could say around guys to make them uncomfortable but that’s not the point of this post.
There is something about crushing a little kid’s dream that gets me really angry.
Women in technology need consistant messaging from birth through retirement they are welcome, competent and valued in the industry.
Let’s unify the message to our daughters and to the women developers we work with:
“We want you to be here and we will do our best to welcome you into the world of programming.”
What has to change is that everyone must take personal accountability and speak up when they hear something that isn’t ok. It takes three words to make a difference:
“That’s not cool.”
Not all men at tech conferences are like these guys.
Not every woman who attends a tech conference is a victim in waiting.
We need to build bridges and be aware of our actions and not discount that our words carry weight. A guy in my PyCon sprint group today shared a beautiful French proverb today:
“Live a good life then make room for others.”
Yesterday the future of programming was on the line and I made myself heard.

k3vin k., Friday, 22 March 2013 03:24 (1 year ago) Permalink

because the guy was obviously an immature dork but i'm really failing to see the misogyny. and i went to college and everything

k3vin k., Friday, 22 March 2013 03:27 (1 year ago) Permalink

Where there are guys who are immature dorks, misogyny is generally in the room with them.

karl lagerlout (suzy), Friday, 22 March 2013 03:32 (1 year ago) Permalink

Making intentionally lewd and suggestive comments, disguised as 'jokes', to a woman who did nothing to invite such comments may happen because the speaker is immature or it may happen for other reasons, but it will always be both sexually aggressive and socially demeaning to the woman, and therefore can legit be called misogynist. Any added dorkiness is purely incidental. She chose not to excuse or overlook it. That is purely her call to make, not any of ours.

Aimless, Friday, 22 March 2013 03:39 (1 year ago) Permalink

cool could you link me to the part where they made the joke "to" her? i must have missed that part

k3vin k., Friday, 22 March 2013 03:43 (1 year ago) Permalink

it's ok i didn't read that until a few minutes ago either

k3vin k., Friday, 22 March 2013 03:45 (1 year ago) Permalink

Yesterday the future of programming was on the line and I made myself heard.

lol

sonderborg, Friday, 22 March 2013 03:46 (1 year ago) Permalink

fuck off

my god i only have 2 useless beyblade (silby), Friday, 22 March 2013 03:54 (1 year ago) Permalink

it's a little ott

sonderborg, Friday, 22 March 2013 03:57 (1 year ago) Permalink

It's hard enough to take a stand against an oppression that's widely dismissed as no big deal by your peers. When they start the barrage of criticism of you as a whiner and a bitch, it is natural to want to claim some moral high ground from which to fight off the onslaught.

Aimless, Friday, 22 March 2013 04:28 (1 year ago) Permalink

If I had not felt so intimidated/uncomfortable the last time two guys on the street asked me if I'd ever had [a specific kind of] dick in me, I would totally have taken a picture of them and posted it on the internet. I have no problem with identifying ppl who make sexualizing/sexist remarks in public.

lets just remember to blame the patriarchy for (in orbit), Friday, 22 March 2013 04:47 (1 year ago) Permalink

I know I don’t have to be a hero in every situation.

She Got the Shakes, Friday, 22 March 2013 08:26 (1 year ago) Permalink

the tone goes a little overboard, it's not like she doesn't have enough of a case without bringing in genocide & lord of the flies & being a hero & saving a little girl's life or w/e the hell she's going on about there. But so what, she can blog however she wants & she's still in the right here.

dat neggy nilmar (wins), Friday, 22 March 2013 08:38 (1 year ago) Permalink

Anyway the funniest bit of that is where she points out that dongles are designed to be small, so the joke doesn't even work. If she does a stand-up routine about this incident, she should centre it around that observation imo

dat neggy nilmar (wins), Friday, 22 March 2013 08:40 (1 year ago) Permalink

Yesterday the future of programming was on the line and I made myself heard.

lol, while she works in tech, she failed to realize she is not a technologist herself but in fact a marketer. if your primary role is to evangelize and market your company's services to developers, it's probably a good idea not to passive-aggressively attack said developers and their community.

and if you're making dicks jokes loud enough to be heard while wearing your company shirt, you deserve to be fired too. at least he was apologetic.

sanskrit, Friday, 22 March 2013 13:52 (1 year ago) Permalink

Dude making dick jokes != the entire community of developers! Though a little tone-setting goes a long way.

Andrew Farrell, Friday, 22 March 2013 14:02 (1 year ago) Permalink

and if you're making dicks jokes loud enough to be heard while wearing your company shirt, you deserve to be fired too.

this really cannot be stated enough

Darth Icky (DJP), Friday, 22 March 2013 14:23 (1 year ago) Permalink

(except for the "too" part, I don't think she deserved to be fired)

Darth Icky (DJP), Friday, 22 March 2013 14:24 (1 year ago) Permalink

apparently thisismyjam have decided to stop using SendGrid because of the way they fired Richards.

jonathan livingston seapunk (c sharp major), Friday, 22 March 2013 14:36 (1 year ago) Permalink

yeah i think what's clear from that full text is he was fired for his irreverence rather than misogyny

k3vin k., Friday, 22 March 2013 14:37 (1 year ago) Permalink

Be interesting to see if somebody tweets a photo of a corona of empty seats surrounding this woman at the next conference she attends - skittish dudes keeping a buffer zone between themselves and The Lady Who Can't Take A Joke.

誤訳侮辱, Friday, 22 March 2013 15:12 (1 year ago) Permalink

Skittish dudes otm

mister borges (darraghmac), Friday, 22 March 2013 15:15 (1 year ago) Permalink

Does that stand for 'off the money'? Because jokes are not something that should be 'taken' by anyone, like some punishment.

Although I do love hypothetical imaginary future situations where a woman is ostracised by 'gentlemen's agreement' by men who want to continue to behave like little boys *and* pull down adult wages.

karl lagerlout (suzy), Friday, 22 March 2013 15:22 (1 year ago) Permalink

Dangerously sexist post

mister borges (darraghmac), Friday, 22 March 2013 15:24 (1 year ago) Permalink

"taken" sort of implies that the woman was the butt of the joke, or that she was at least in some way party to the conversation, or maybe that the joke even was about women.

k3vin k., Friday, 22 March 2013 15:28 (1 year ago) Permalink

i demand a stop to this slandering of little boys; plenty of them aren't sexist & some of their jokes are pretty good

ogmor, Friday, 22 March 2013 15:35 (1 year ago) Permalink

Quite apart from the fact that she was in the conversation (are you still hazy about the details from the version you reposted, k3v?), 'take a joke' doesn't imply any of those.

Andrew Farrell, Friday, 22 March 2013 15:35 (1 year ago) Permalink

she talked to one of the guys about some part of the presentation, then later they started making the dick jokes. they were unrelated

k3vin k., Friday, 22 March 2013 15:37 (1 year ago) Permalink

has anyone here attended pycon? What's the tone like compared to other tech confs, given that it's named after Monty python?

Philip Nunez, Friday, 22 March 2013 15:39 (1 year ago) Permalink

the idiom 'take a joke' is pretty vulgar + offensive

Mordy, Friday, 22 March 2013 15:44 (1 year ago) Permalink

Kevin, read your own fucking post!

Andrew Farrell, Friday, 22 March 2013 15:44 (1 year ago) Permalink

Sounds like the worst thing ever xxp

dat neggy nilmar (wins), Friday, 22 March 2013 15:46 (1 year ago) Permalink

Take a joke = bantz, no?

dat neggy nilmar (wins), Friday, 22 March 2013 15:47 (1 year ago) Permalink

ah you're right. he said he'd fork a guy's repo. that's a pretty sexist i guess

k3vin k., Friday, 22 March 2013 15:47 (1 year ago) Permalink

special guest pycon performance by mc nerdlinger nintendo

Whiney G. Weingarten, Friday, 22 March 2013 15:48 (1 year ago) Permalink

Otm

dat neggy nilmar (wins), Friday, 22 March 2013 15:49 (1 year ago) Permalink

could someone rekindle the argument? i just finished my work but i have to stay for another 40 mins or so. ideally with everyone assuming traditional ilx roles to keep things simple.

Tioc Norris (LocalGarda), Friday, 22 March 2013 15:52 (1 year ago) Permalink

lol

Darth Icky (DJP), Friday, 22 March 2013 15:52 (1 year ago) Permalink

i don't care enough to really get involved this go around tbh - others are more than capable of filling my role i think

Mordy, Friday, 22 March 2013 15:54 (1 year ago) Permalink

hope this helps

Kontuszówka reverie (Noodle Vague), Friday, 22 March 2013 15:55 (1 year ago) Permalink

yeah i'm not particularly enjoying playing mordy in this adaptation but the story is sufficiently ridiculous.

k3vin k., Friday, 22 March 2013 15:56 (1 year ago) Permalink

tbh, this woman should be awarded the nobel peace prize for not swinging on an IRL xkcd cartoon screeching dick jokes

Whiney G. Weingarten, Friday, 22 March 2013 15:56 (1 year ago) Permalink

the language python is named after monty python. the conference is just named after the language.

s.clover, Friday, 22 March 2013 15:57 (1 year ago) Permalink

xxp that's how i ALWAYS feel

Mordy, Friday, 22 March 2013 15:57 (1 year ago) Permalink

The language is reallllly named after Monty python, like the homage is pretty deep, so I'm wondering if juvenile humor was more in the air than say at javaone

Philip Nunez, Friday, 22 March 2013 16:05 (1 year ago) Permalink

um i can't tell if i'm being trolled here? python devs tend to be younger and less big corporate and more startupy but that has like nothing to do with the genetic origins of the name of the language, and everything to do with where that language tends to be used. i've heard python conferences have reputations of being pretty chill affairs actually, especially when compared to what was reputedly the rampant dickishness in the ruby community. but as a whole, culturally, this is more about startup-land and not than anything else, i suspect.

lol java was named after coffee i wonder if at javaone everyone is jittery!

s.clover, Friday, 22 March 2013 16:25 (1 year ago) Permalink

Pretty much

☠ ☃ ☠ (mh), Friday, 22 March 2013 16:28 (1 year ago) Permalink

take this joke and shove it

open the blood gates (elmo argonaut), Friday, 22 March 2013 16:31 (1 year ago) Permalink

how bout that dude who sparked up a bowl in the middle of pycon, eh?

diamonddave85, Friday, 22 March 2013 16:34 (1 year ago) Permalink

I lolled at that, too

developers are really idiots

Darth Icky (DJP), Friday, 22 March 2013 16:35 (1 year ago) Permalink

Anti developer language itt really sickening now tbh

mister borges (darraghmac), Friday, 22 March 2013 16:37 (1 year ago) Permalink

I'm just saying if you told me at pycon that there were silly walk contests and Spanish Inquisition cosplay, it wouldn't be totally unexpected.

Philip Nunez, Friday, 22 March 2013 16:38 (1 year ago) Permalink

Yeah I have no problem believing that literally every person at this thing including the offended woman has a fucking terrible sense of humour

dat neggy nilmar (wins), Friday, 22 March 2013 16:44 (1 year ago) Permalink

(python is really huge in scientific computing now btw. a fair number of the people doing that stuff are really impressive.)

s.clover, Friday, 22 March 2013 16:46 (1 year ago) Permalink

if richards had interrupted dongle guy by yelling
STOP
GIMME A BEAT
and launched into Nasty Boys, a lot fewer people would've been fired
we have learned nothing from the 1980s

i petted a bodega cat today. (forksclovetofu), Friday, 22 March 2013 17:04 (1 year ago) Permalink

I don't think the world is ready for a Python conference attempting to recreate the "Nasty" video

at least give the local emergency rooms a heads-up before doing this

Darth Icky (DJP), Friday, 22 March 2013 17:06 (1 year ago) Permalink

this shit will be on funny or die by next week, don't front

i petted a bodega cat today. (forksclovetofu), Friday, 22 March 2013 17:07 (1 year ago) Permalink

"Among other findings, an Ohio State University study found that graduate students rated research abstracts as having greater “scientific quality” when they thought the abstracts were written by men."

http://www.scilogs.com/communication_breakdown/gender-bias-study-2013/

Guayaquil (eephus!), Friday, 22 March 2013 17:08 (1 year ago) Permalink

http://www.complex.com/tech/2013/03/the-40-hottest-women-in-tech/

lol straight trollin

乒乓, Friday, 22 March 2013 18:44 (1 year ago) Permalink

douse complex.com in gasoline and set it on fire imho

open the blood gates (elmo argonaut), Friday, 22 March 2013 18:44 (1 year ago) Permalink

^^^

Darth Icky (DJP), Friday, 22 March 2013 18:46 (1 year ago) Permalink

I clicked through to the first entry because I was thinking "well maybe they are trolling by setting this up as a cheesecake list and then they're going to riff off of the nonsexual definition of "hottest" and then the first picture loaded and I was basically like "lol gtfo *clicks back, hopes no one was looking at my cube*"

Darth Icky (DJP), Friday, 22 March 2013 18:50 (1 year ago) Permalink

complex.com is basically justdudethings right?

Heyman (crüt), Friday, 22 March 2013 18:50 (1 year ago) Permalink

I have trouble expressing just how angry the pervasive, unexamined misogyny in my field makes me.

my god i only have 2 useless beyblade (silby), Friday, 22 March 2013 19:12 (1 year ago) Permalink

I have trouble expressing just how angry the pervasive, unexamined misogyny in my field makes me.

― my god i only have 2 useless beyblade (silby), Friday, March 22, 2013 12:12 PM (0 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

my god i only have 2 useless beyblade (silby), Friday, 22 March 2013 19:13 (1 year ago) Permalink

I was assigned to write the 50 Hottest Women in Tech by Complex and it really bummed me out, because the idea of perpetrating the same old gender divisions in an area like tech - which has predominantly been a boy's club throughout history - seemed like kind of a messed up thing to do. It represents the most banal form of internet content that exists. But it's hard to say no to a paycheck.

So what I tried to do was see if it was possible to make something called "The 50 Hottest Women in Tech" earnest and empowering and an actual good thing. I pretty much only included normal looking women, who were involved in something really crucial or exciting in the tech space. I made no allusions to their looks in the blurbs, and ended up with simply a long list of very exciting women.

Of course when the piece actually ran, I discovered that over half of the women I had included were replaced with people like Morgan Webb, complete with the usual lascivious dialogue. Sigh. It's hard to win when you're writing for Complex, but please know that I tried.

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1rjce0c
https://twitter.com/luke_winkie

open the blood gates (elmo argonaut), Friday, 22 March 2013 19:13 (1 year ago) Permalink

how bout that dude who sparked up a bowl in the middle of pycon, eh?

You mean the dude who also shouted "you're the hottest" at a woman presenting a talk, while being so drunk he claims not to remember shouting or bowl-sparking, and whose official explanation-of-banning only mentions the bowl-sparking?

Bcz I happen to find "you're the hottest" approx six billion times more offensive than dongle innuendos. This may be because I have never been hot but I was 13 for a while.

(declines to click on complex.com link because I think I've been angry enough this week already)

susuwatari teenage riot (a passing spacecadet), Friday, 22 March 2013 19:13 (1 year ago) Permalink

dude's name is winkie, i just want to point that out (no dongle)

open the blood gates (elmo argonaut), Friday, 22 March 2013 19:16 (1 year ago) Permalink

lol

乒乓, Friday, 22 March 2013 19:17 (1 year ago) Permalink

just really lol to me since it's p obvious that the higher ups at complex were like, how can we get hits this week... *sees adria richards controversy* *assigns 50 hottest women in tech piece to underling*

乒乓, Friday, 22 March 2013 19:17 (1 year ago) Permalink

I remember going on some weekend school trip where my dad was chaperoning when I was in junior high; I started a "what girls do you think are hot?" conversation that he quickly shut down because it was a bunch of thirteen-year-olds being gross and pervy. I responded with "ok then, what cars do you think are hot?" and got yelled at in front of a bunch of my classmates and told to go to sleep.

Looking back, the takeaways were:

- We were incapable of making a distinction between talking about an entire gender and talking about inanimate masse objects and whenever my thoughts get too icky, I remember that confrontation and wonder how I would feel as the object of a Mandingo conversation.
- My dad really wanted to get some sleep that night.

Darth Icky (DJP), Friday, 22 March 2013 19:19 (1 year ago) Permalink

Also can someone point out to Mr. Winkie that specifically excluding attractive women is just as problematic as explicitly perving over them?

Darth Icky (DJP), Friday, 22 March 2013 19:22 (1 year ago) Permalink

^

Heyman (crüt), Friday, 22 March 2013 19:27 (1 year ago) Permalink

i don't know this dude but it reads like he just wanted to focus on people who weren't uncanny valley.

Philip Nunez, Friday, 22 March 2013 19:31 (1 year ago) Permalink

oh winkiepaws

Whiney G. Weingarten, Friday, 22 March 2013 19:33 (1 year ago) Permalink

you've been on fire since you got married, dude

Darth Icky (DJP), Friday, 22 March 2013 19:34 (1 year ago) Permalink

<333333 CHRIS

maura, Friday, 22 March 2013 19:37 (1 year ago) Permalink

i have no clue how this sort of blog industry works or what, but the "don't blame me, i tried, blame editorial" excuse feels kinda weak on its face. could he have "tried" harder? is it possible to say to his editor "no, i don't want to / would prefer not to write that because it's gross" or were his hands tied and how firmly?

open the blood gates (elmo argonaut), Friday, 22 March 2013 19:41 (1 year ago) Permalink

he probably had to pay rent

乒乓, Friday, 22 March 2013 19:43 (1 year ago) Permalink

Person who wrote the "i didnt want to do my job but they made me do my job" stuff gotta be next for the sack, right

mister borges (darraghmac), Friday, 22 March 2013 19:44 (1 year ago) Permalink

i have no clue how this sort of blog industry works or what, but the "don't blame me, i tried, blame editorial" excuse feels kinda weak on its face. could he have "tried" harder? is it possible to say to his editor "no, i don't want to / would prefer not to write that because it's gross" or were his hands tied and how firmly?

it sounds from his account like he wrote a straightforward "these women are doing exciting things" listicle without referring to anyone's looks and then editorial turned it into... that, so the only way he could have tried harder would have been to say "no, I'm not writing that"

Darth Icky (DJP), Friday, 22 March 2013 19:45 (1 year ago) Permalink

yeah, i'd like to give the dude the benefit of the doubt, but obviously he knew what they wanted & expected when they assigned him that piece

open the blood gates (elmo argonaut), Friday, 22 March 2013 19:48 (1 year ago) Permalink

ayyyy

Heyman (crüt), Friday, 22 March 2013 19:54 (1 year ago) Permalink

Happy Friday Winkie.

tsrobodo, Friday, 22 March 2013 19:55 (1 year ago) Permalink

faced

乒乓, Friday, 22 March 2013 19:55 (1 year ago) Permalink

ha

Darth Icky (DJP), Friday, 22 March 2013 19:56 (1 year ago) Permalink

lololol first u read: "Technology has been a boy's club for most of its existence. Just another unfortunate repercussion of the patriarchy. But that's been slowly changing, and over the last decade we've seen a number of wonderful, intelligent, and cunning women make inspiring strides in the field of technology. Through web development, social media, space exploration, and video game design, we see the world of tech becoming a more equal playing field. Here are 40 women we admire doing work in the field of innovation."

and then you click to the first person

Mordy, Friday, 22 March 2013 19:58 (1 year ago) Permalink

can we change the subject? amazing writing here

http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2013/03/22/a-girl-cant-have-a-dick/

goole, Friday, 22 March 2013 19:58 (1 year ago) Permalink

When I was 13 years old, a bunch of people from my circle of friends, most whom were.13 year old girls, liked to play a game called The Penis Game. The Penis Game was you'd stand around in a circle saying the word penis. Each person had to say the word penis louder than the last person. The point was to get it loud enough to where a stranger would hear it. It didn't take a lot for this group to say penis loud enough to hear it on the next floor or whatever. I was profoundly embarrassed by the Penis Game and would usually go hide in like, Sam Goody when it started. I was pretty unfun for a 13-year-old, I guess.

how's life, Friday, 22 March 2013 20:41 (1 year ago) Permalink

xp was JUST gonna post that

i petted a bodega cat today. (forksclovetofu), Friday, 22 March 2013 20:43 (1 year ago) Permalink

i remember ppl even playing the penis game like freshman year of college.

s.clover, Friday, 22 March 2013 20:45 (1 year ago) Permalink

onion really should do one of these for women in tech:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/the-6-best-dresses-at-the-golden-globes,30897/

s.clover, Friday, 22 March 2013 20:50 (1 year ago) Permalink

sam goody as a safe haven from penis could have helped them weather record industry downturn.

Philip Nunez, Friday, 22 March 2013 20:53 (1 year ago) Permalink

LOL. But was I being sexually harassed? Were the other mall patrons being sexually harassed?

how's life, Friday, 22 March 2013 20:57 (1 year ago) Permalink

Has the statute of limitations passEd for penis game victims?

how's life, Friday, 22 March 2013 21:02 (1 year ago) Permalink

sometimes you just want to duck into a place out of penis earshot and where you can also buy fugazi CDs for $15.99

Philip Nunez, Friday, 22 March 2013 21:03 (1 year ago) Permalink

Can I play the penis game now? Or would it be all "Sir,you're going to have to come with us."

how's life, Friday, 22 March 2013 21:06 (1 year ago) Permalink

Might be fun to try on a date: "so, do you want to play the penis game?" You friday night single okcupid people can have that one. Let me know how you do!

how's life, Saturday, 23 March 2013 00:53 (1 year ago) Permalink

lololol first u read: "Technology has been a boy's club for most of its existence. Just another unfortunate repercussion of the patriarchy. But that's been slowly changing, and over the last decade we've seen a number of wonderful, intelligent, and cunning women make inspiring strides in the field of technology. Through web development, social media, space exploration, and video game design, we see the world of tech becoming a more equal playing field. Here are 40 women we admire doing work in the field of innovation."

and then you click to the first person

― Mordy

oh god please let a wave of sexy russian women make philology a thing again

j., Saturday, 23 March 2013 01:03 (1 year ago) Permalink

that is my prayer

j., Saturday, 23 March 2013 01:03 (1 year ago) Permalink

ok I guess nobody really wants to revisit the PyCon thing again but since the Amanda Blum article was posted upthread I thought I'd post this one too:

http://www.technologywoman.com/2013/03/24/digging-beneath-the-surface-that-amanda-blum-article-on-adria-richards-is-not-what-it-seems/

also uh this sounds totally lame but I only just now saw a picture of Adria Richards after reading the entire controversy with images turned off (why bcz at work) and realised that you were actually all telling me off for whitesplaining the other day when I thought I was being told off for mansplaining while not being a man, so apologies to everyone concerned

certainly there was some element of unwarranted splaining in my posts

susuwatari teenage riot (a passing spacecadet), Monday, 25 March 2013 22:57 (1 year ago) Permalink

i want to move to white plains, ny and write a letter to an advice column and sign it "whitesplaining in white plains"

veryupsetmom (harbl), Tuesday, 26 March 2013 00:02 (1 year ago) Permalink

plain whites whitesplain whitesplainin in white plains, new york

well if it isn't old 11 cameras simon (gbx), Tuesday, 26 March 2013 00:12 (1 year ago) Permalink

i read a very depressing shitty article on this stuff from someone and thought better than to post it here. the only striking thing to me is that it was well designed, well written, well argued, and still i just wanted to beat the crap out of it with a cluebat. the worst thing is when this stuff doesn't come from obvious mouthbreathers but people that by all impressions seem to have the mental facilities to know way better. natch there was discussion of dawkins, and that whole controversy, etc.

s.clover, Tuesday, 26 March 2013 01:07 (1 year ago) Permalink

otoh i posted on one of my feeds an interesting nyrb article on galileo and was shocked to find someone I known from STEM circles weighing in with an 'its complicated' defense of the catholic church, so the ability of people to disappoint me is unflagging.

s.clover, Tuesday, 26 March 2013 01:09 (1 year ago) Permalink

What this entire Adria Richards situation really highlights is that a lot of people feel like everyone else around them should be able to read their minds and know that they don't really mean it when they say stupid shit, and they will bend over backwards with ludicrously stupid arguments in order to protect this inalienable right to say stupid shit that may offend other people. Basically, unless you are In The Tribe, you don't deserve any sympathy, and there are a bunch of idiots out there fooling themselves into thinking they are In The Tribe.

Darth Icky (DJP), Tuesday, 26 March 2013 14:13 (1 year ago) Permalink

Reminds me of the time when I got sacked for objecting to a manager's idea of team-building: whenever a new hire got a first sale, we'd have to stop so the manager could announce '[X] has lost their [retailer redacted] virginity!' Then we were expected to cheer while the manager rang a special bell.

karl lagerlout (suzy), Tuesday, 26 March 2013 14:24 (1 year ago) Permalink

Lol, aps, I didn't know she was a POC either! Anyway, still don't care about her outing them on twitter, still don't disagree with a single thing she did.

lets just remember to blame the patriarchy for (in orbit), Tuesday, 26 March 2013 14:26 (1 year ago) Permalink

a lot of people feel like everyone else around them should be able to read their minds and know that they don't really mean it when they say stupid shit, and they will bend over backwards with ludicrously stupid arguments in order to protect this inalienable right to say stupid shit that may offend other people.

well yes, privilege very often means that you feel the freedom to decide the meaning of words in context and whether the are offensive or not

open the blood gates (elmo argonaut), Tuesday, 26 March 2013 14:27 (1 year ago) Permalink

Then we were expected to cheer while the manager rang a special bell.

乒乓, Tuesday, 26 March 2013 14:27 (1 year ago) Permalink

s.clover, Tuesday, 26 March 2013 15:02 (1 year ago) Permalink

who do i have to oppress to get into the tribe

i petted a bodega cat today. (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 26 March 2013 22:02 (1 year ago) Permalink

anyone

mister borges (darraghmac), Tuesday, 26 March 2013 22:37 (1 year ago) Permalink

c'mere

i petted a bodega cat today. (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 26 March 2013 23:20 (1 year ago) Permalink

http://www.themarysue.com/pax-tomb-raider-cosplay/

What happens when a game journo dude decided to play the "cosplay is consent" card with a group of Lara Croft cosplayers

Wizemann had been interviewed in the past and said everything seemed normal. That is, until the interviewer asked his first question, “How does it feel to be at a convention where none of the men could please you?”

Hockey Drunk (kingfish), Thursday, 28 March 2013 18:00 (1 year ago) Permalink

Gosh can't imagine what Adria Richards was all up in arms about re the tech industry

http://jezebel.com/5992787/game-developers-conference-features-sexy-dancing-ladies-because-tech-is-super-welcoming-to-women

ARE YOU HIRING A NANNY OR A SHAMAN (Phil D.), Friday, 29 March 2013 00:35 (1 year ago) Permalink

From the comments: Games are businesses. Business want clients. Most clients are men. All other game booths/parties have "booth babes" and dancers. If your booth/party does not have booth babes and dancers then clients leave and go to parties that do. Your business loses clients. The end.

It's shitty and everyone knows it but no one is willing to break the cycle because everyone else is doing it too. Like steroids in sports.

Wow, the game industry is like stuck in the late 60's. Which is weird, because that is before pong and computer space.

No, not sinister (Austerity Ponies), Friday, 29 March 2013 14:19 (1 year ago) Permalink

booth babe arms race

☠ ☃ ☠ (mh), Friday, 29 March 2013 14:23 (1 year ago) Permalink

Sigh:
http://storify.com/sduncovered/she-made-a-mean-beef-stroganoff

Be sure to note the idiotic comment

maura, Sunday, 31 March 2013 14:43 (1 year ago) Permalink

just in case anyone misses it:

Sean P. BeaverMaybe making beef stroganoff is what made her happy and making rockets just paid the bills so she could make said meal. Jobs don't define everything about us.an hour ago

media conglomerates are pedaling the same product (stevie), Sunday, 31 March 2013 14:58 (1 year ago) Permalink

You're just mad cause your stroganoff is wack

Look, Brian, about the afro wig... (forksclovetofu), Sunday, 31 March 2013 15:00 (1 year ago) Permalink

stroganoff
to live without you

kinder, Sunday, 31 March 2013 15:58 (1 year ago) Permalink

harder better faster stroganoff

乒乓, Sunday, 31 March 2013 16:00 (1 year ago) Permalink

idk I'm pretty proud of my stroganoff

No, not sinister (Austerity Ponies), Monday, 1 April 2013 13:52 (1 year ago) Permalink

I mean, what the hell

the pheromones of hot clothing (DJP), Monday, 1 April 2013 14:45 (1 year ago) Permalink

okay I can't believe this shit (signed, someone who married his college sweetheart)

http://money.cnn.com/2013/04/01/pf/princeton-mom-women/index.html?hpt=hp_t5

the pheromones of hot clothing (DJP), Monday, 1 April 2013 15:00 (1 year ago) Permalink

Patton’s parents, too, were unenthusiastic about her time in the Ivy League—something she previously wrote about in 2006 for the Princeton Alumni Weekly.

Elaborating on the phone, Patton explained:

“My parents were both survivors of concentration camps, and all they wanted for me was to marry. Ideally they wanted me to marry a butcher, because then there would always be meat on the table. The thought of their unmarried daughter leaving home before marriage was a disgrace to them. So I applied to Princeton as an emancipated minor, I paid for it myself, and I went away to college against my parents’ wishes. And it cost me dearly and still does.

oy

Mordy, Monday, 1 April 2013 15:09 (1 year ago) Permalink

huh, I wonder if perhaps her own experience isn't a good start to giving out generalized advice

☠ ☃ ☠ (mh), Monday, 1 April 2013 17:50 (1 year ago) Permalink

Patton, who graduated from Princeton in 1977 and went on to run an executive coaching business in New York City, said she spent most of her twenties focused on her professional life. At 30, she married a man who did not go to Princeton.

She wrote that "ultimately, it will frustrate you to be with a man who just isn't as smart as you." The couple recently divorced.

Ouch.

rallying against young people who wear hats (Nicole), Monday, 1 April 2013 17:58 (1 year ago) Permalink

everything about that article is headdesk material and by the end I genuinely feel like she has been punishing herself for things that sound like they weren't even under her control

the pheromones of hot clothing (DJP), Monday, 1 April 2013 18:02 (1 year ago) Permalink

seems like a lot of inadvertent airing of dirty laundry, frankly.

ryan, Monday, 1 April 2013 18:47 (1 year ago) Permalink

if you're frustrated because you think your partner isn't as smart as you i'd suggest you're not as smart as you think

parcheesi Wotsits (Noodle Vague), Monday, 1 April 2013 18:51 (1 year ago) Permalink

Hardly a fair appraisal of the situation.

tsrobodo, Monday, 1 April 2013 19:19 (1 year ago) Permalink

cap'n save-a-ivy

s.clover, Monday, 1 April 2013 20:49 (1 year ago) Permalink

yeah no one needs to ever defend Princeton

the pheromones of hot clothing (DJP), Monday, 1 April 2013 20:50 (1 year ago) Permalink

agreed

乒乓, Monday, 1 April 2013 20:51 (1 year ago) Permalink

more followup to the Adria Richards situation: http://colorlines.com/archives/2013/04/how_to_get_a_black_woman_fired_in_six_tired_steps.html

the pheromones of hot clothing (DJP), Monday, 1 April 2013 20:56 (1 year ago) Permalink

I mean, to the point that the polarization of opinions is ridiculous. No judgment on the appropriateness of anything, these days, from my corner.

☠ ☃ ☠ (mh), Monday, 1 April 2013 21:34 (1 year ago) Permalink

That post is six kinds of condescending bullshit. And I'm just gonna start with "a vanishingly small proportion of people under fifty who would be legitimately offended by a big dongle joke." Oh, excuse me? I'm in the wrong place then, I must have taken a wrong turn back on OPPOSITE DAY ON BIZARRO WORLD.

lets just remember to blame the patriarchy for (in orbit), Monday, 1 April 2013 22:07 (1 year ago) Permalink

We seem to have approached a point where any actual sensible discussion of questions raised by this situation is borderline impossible.

Oh but thank goodness, here is someone to set us straight by taking the middle road. Because a slavish devotion to being the "reasonable center" has never led to anything bad, in fact it shows you take the issues seriously! Why get sucked into being mad about the issues when this nice high perch is available, and so comfortable!

These are both ridiculous positions! These are insane positions! These are totally irrational positions!

No, one of these is a completely reasonable position if you don't agree that dick jokes are or should be the common currency of adult humor in the public sphere, and the other one is misogyny.

lets just remember to blame the patriarchy for (in orbit), Monday, 1 April 2013 22:12 (1 year ago) Permalink

yeah basically that dude sucks and, despite his protestations, is pulling a false equivalency that minimizes the severity of what happened to Adria Richards

whatever your opinion of Adria Richards' actions, the blowback that she got from it, including getting blamed for that dude's company firing him and receiving death/rape threats and getting fired, was wholly out of proportion from any perceived bad behavior on her part (pro-tip tho: there was no bad behavior on her part; someone being irritating to you doesn't automagically make them wrong)

I mean, how come no one went after the company of the dude who got fired? Presumably they're the ones who actually terminated his employment, not Adria, so why were Adria and her employer targeted and why are people still openly reveling in the schadenfreude that a braying racist, sexist mob bullied both her company into terminating her employment and the conference into changing their code of conduct explicitly to show disapproval of her?

the pheromones of hot clothing (DJP), Monday, 1 April 2013 22:21 (1 year ago) Permalink

I filed my paperwork and called the hospital and did 4 loads of laundry and cleaned house and took a nap and woke up to THIS? Why are you trying to ruin my day? Is my feeling.

lets just remember to blame the patriarchy for (in orbit), Monday, 1 April 2013 22:22 (1 year ago) Permalink

Not you, Dan.

lets just remember to blame the patriarchy for (in orbit), Monday, 1 April 2013 22:23 (1 year ago) Permalink

I think theirs is the comparison he is making between "two arguments"' although it may not be clear:

The arguments now appear to be that either Adria fucked up and for this reason she deserved to get rape threats, or that since she got rape threats she cannot possibly have fucked up.

His own opinion of overreaction isn't what I was really interested in, but sure, these can also be seen as strawmen and detract from the original situation's importance. But really, at this point, hearing from others or encouraging other people to share their experiences should be the focus, and not the micro-analyzing of this one situation, which really is a lot less polarizing than I think it's drawn into.

☠ ☃ ☠ (mh), Monday, 1 April 2013 22:26 (1 year ago) Permalink

however casual your workplace is, it's still a place of business regardless of the industry, and really about the only industries I can think of that might be able to make a case for people not being offended by constant dick jokes are comedy and porn, and even there you've got a contextual component that can't be handwaved (you probably shouldn't expect the porn company's accountant to have to put up with sexual innuendo, for example)

the entire argument of "it wasn't sexist, it was sexual" is monumentally stupid because any sensible person is NOT GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT SEX AT WORK BECAUSE YOU COULD GET FIRED FOR THAT SHIT

the pheromones of hot clothing (DJP), Monday, 1 April 2013 22:26 (1 year ago) Permalink

But really, at this point, hearing from others or encouraging other people to share their experiences should be the focus, and not the micro-analyzing of this one situation, which really is a lot less polarizing than I think it's drawn into.

what exactly is the incentive for anyone to share their experiences with this type of thing beyond attracting the attention of a mob of sexist, racist dicks?

the pheromones of hot clothing (DJP), Monday, 1 April 2013 22:28 (1 year ago) Permalink

idk, I apologize, I briefly read it and Tom is generally a voice of some reason, but this apparently isn't his finest hour

☠ ☃ ☠ (mh), Monday, 1 April 2013 22:29 (1 year ago) Permalink

something about this whole thing just feels so "SEE, I TOLD YOU WE SHOULDN'T LET GIRLS IN THE TREEHOUSE!"

i've a cozy little flat in what is known as old man hat (Hurting 2), Monday, 1 April 2013 22:29 (1 year ago) Permalink

Because even sexist, racist dicks might eventually catch on that this is a common experience and can't be written off as one person's opinion?

☠ ☃ ☠ (mh), Monday, 1 April 2013 22:30 (1 year ago) Permalink

i think the hysteria in response to Richards is interesting since it's basically a response to the fact by tweeting the photo she effectively re-contextualized what was happening--or put differently she made manifest the implicit misogyny of such jokes.

this freaks people out because it raises the possibility of being held accountable to contexts that they didn't choose for themselves. it would be not unlike putting pictures of war atrocities in the middle east on the handles of gas pumps, or approaching every person with a macbook and describing the working conditions of the chinese workers who made them.

the idea that you, yes even you, are complicit in forms of oppression is one most people will instinctively and even quite violently reject.

ryan, Monday, 1 April 2013 22:43 (1 year ago) Permalink

Now that it's a week later, I can't find it, but there was a twitter hashtag going of anecdotes that was excellent, and while there was some noise from the idiot crowd, it was overall a positive thing. I mean, as positive as people sharing bad experiences can be.

Ryan, you're right in that making the jump from a sexist comment labeling an individual a sexist (which is usually less than useful in the purposes of conversation) is something that gets violent rejection. I think the knee-jerk thing here is that the original incident had sexual comments, but not necessarily sexist comments. The problem is that there's a group that refuses to acknowledge that this was a female-hostile space, or at least one in which women would very obviously feel their minority status in the room, and any sexualized comment, even if not obliquely sexist, would affirm the majority's standing.

Acknowledging social or institutional sexism is something I struggle at some days, and I'd guess a fair portion of the most idiotic-sounding people haven't even heard of the concept.

☠ ☃ ☠ (mh), Monday, 1 April 2013 22:51 (1 year ago) Permalink

Their outrage is somewhat along the same lines as the complaints of racists/sexists/homophobes who feel that any moves legal or otherwise that limit discrimination are somehow also limiting liberty because it's no longer socially or legally acceptable to act in an offensive manner.

Moodles, Monday, 1 April 2013 22:52 (1 year ago) Permalink

xp I don't know that's quite right - you can't really argue that atrocities and terrible working conditions aren't happening, you can just argue your distance from them / they would happen anyway. Whereas with this you can go straight for "lol she can't take a joke" and carry on with your day.

Andrew Farrell, Monday, 1 April 2013 22:57 (1 year ago) Permalink

even just saying "i am offended by that" will get an eye-roll usually at best. in a utopian society these sorts of exchanges would go both ways (in that both people have to take account of both subjective experiences of the situation) but in what orbit calls the "public sphere" and more generally the historical, structural, and institutional prevalence of sexism the context is there before either of the conversants are. that has to be continually accounted for and certainly requires a great deal of humility for those in positions of privilege. but it's not that hard in the end: just listen, be accommodating, and generously take account of the unaccountability of another person's subjective experience and you'll be in the clear 99% of the time.

ryan, Monday, 1 April 2013 23:01 (1 year ago) Permalink

you're right andrew--not an exact equivalent.

ryan, Monday, 1 April 2013 23:02 (1 year ago) Permalink

judging from a presentation I attended last week, "a great deal of humility" is still in short supply in the developer community, regardless of topic. urgh.

☠ ☃ ☠ (mh), Monday, 1 April 2013 23:05 (1 year ago) Permalink

what was the makeup like at pycon vs. say other conferences?

Philip Nunez, Monday, 1 April 2013 23:08 (1 year ago) Permalink

i also think behind some of this there's a bit of mourning of the old boy's club ideal in which common ground (and thus inclusion) is founded things that are rather superficial (having a penis, being heterosexual, being white, being rich)--in place of the ease of such interactions we are forced to account for others in a way that seems to be approaching radical individuality (hence the continued subdivisions of personal identity and concomitant things to take offense at, even the emerging "subjecthood" of animals). this can be precarious since language and group identity are often founded on logics of implicit exclusion.

ryan, Monday, 1 April 2013 23:16 (1 year ago) Permalink

language is a system of difference iirc, words are defined by their unlikeness from other words.

乒乓, Monday, 1 April 2013 23:17 (1 year ago) Permalink

yep--and we're approaching (or have arrived at) a point at which we become "accountable" for the distinctions or differences we can't help but employ.

ryan, Monday, 1 April 2013 23:20 (1 year ago) Permalink

language is a system of difference iirc, words are defined by their unlikeness from other words.

nah, we changed our minds about that like 20 years ago. now we define words by how funny they sound.

s.clover, Tuesday, 2 April 2013 03:35 (1 year ago) Permalink

pro-tip tho: there was no bad behavior on her part

I still don't think it's okay to take a deliberate and direct photograph of someone without their permission.

the possibility of being held accountable to contexts that they didn't choose for themselves is a very disturbing thing, you're right. This can mean several different things, of course.

Walter Galt, Tuesday, 2 April 2013 10:50 (1 year ago) Permalink

I wonder if people got as upset about having their picture taken back before everybody had a goddamn camera they were walking around with.

how's life, Tuesday, 2 April 2013 11:10 (1 year ago) Permalink

and said cameras couldn't beam pictures they'd just taken across the globe wirelessly and without cost or hassle

Lee626, Tuesday, 2 April 2013 12:01 (1 year ago) Permalink

It's really only "disturbing" when the message is taken from a context in which the speaker is powerful, and put into a context in which they are less powerful or more equal to others, because it shows what assumptions they were making for and about their audience.

You could, I guess, argue the logical but unpleasant scenario of taking a pic of a woman in a place where she was comfortable and showing it to a bunch of ppl who would then be able to judge her and disempower her but uh that's pretty much every day irl just so you know.

lets just remember to blame the patriarchy for (in orbit), Tuesday, 2 April 2013 12:59 (1 year ago) Permalink

I still don't think it's okay to take a deliberate and direct photograph of someone without their permission.

this is still and will remain an entirely bullshit argument whose only practical effect is to explicitly or implicitly advance the idea that she deserved the response she got, which included rape threats, death threats, name-calling (including racist slurs) and receiving sole blame/credit for some other company that she has no direct connection to deciding to fire an employee who was being an unprofessional jackass while wearing their logo.

the pheromones of hot clothing (DJP), Tuesday, 2 April 2013 13:27 (1 year ago) Permalink

agreed

esp since taking photos of ppl without their permission is, like, how journalism happens.

well if it isn't old 11 cameras simon (gbx), Tuesday, 2 April 2013 13:35 (1 year ago) Permalink

"I still think it's wrong to get caught in the act of doing something wrong".

media conglomerates are pedaling the same product (stevie), Tuesday, 2 April 2013 13:43 (1 year ago) Permalink

I still think it's wrong to get caught in the act of doing something dongle.

how's life, Tuesday, 2 April 2013 13:44 (1 year ago) Permalink

I disagree in that the photo is much more interesting and damning because it captured practically the entire audience.

Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 2 April 2013 13:49 (1 year ago) Permalink

any sensible person is NOT GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT SEX AT WORK BECAUSE YOU COULD GET FIRED FOR THAT SHIT

I thought of this thread earlier when our sysadmin told an off-colour joke (a propos of completely nothing that I can remember) to our new lead developer, who started today and had at that point been in the office for maybe 2 hours. What makes someone think this is a good idea for the first (maybe second) conversation they've ever had with someone?

susuwatari teenage riot (a passing spacecadet), Tuesday, 2 April 2013 13:55 (1 year ago) Permalink

iirc she took the photo to identify the dude in question for the conference organizers! imagine the futility if she had instead tried to describe the offending party:

"he's a white guy, average height, short brown hair with a goatee, wearing jeans, sneakers, a polo shirt, and a black hoodie.

yeah that really narrows it down at a tech conference

ampersand cooper black (elmo argonaut), Tuesday, 2 April 2013 13:57 (1 year ago) Permalink

xp I can totally imagine the main dude-I-have-nearly-dropped-a-dime-on at work doing that, just to establish that the newcomer can take a joke.

Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 2 April 2013 13:59 (1 year ago) Permalink

That is what post-work beers are for

the pheromones of hot clothing (DJP), Tuesday, 2 April 2013 14:00 (1 year ago) Permalink

Right but there is utility, from this dude's point of view, in determining that the new guy can put up with shit in work rather than just after. And to establish that he'll have to.

Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 2 April 2013 14:02 (1 year ago) Permalink

Should have put the joke in the interview process then

Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 2 April 2013 14:03 (1 year ago) Permalink

There is also utility in having a good HR department

the pheromones of hot clothing (DJP), Tuesday, 2 April 2013 14:04 (1 year ago) Permalink

"Please evaluate these hash functions and also the following princess Diana/9-11 jokes"

Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 2 April 2013 14:08 (1 year ago) Permalink

"Where do you see yourself in five years?"

"What do you think are your best and worst qualities?"

"What's the difference between a Jew and a lasagna?"

誤訳侮辱, Tuesday, 2 April 2013 14:36 (1 year ago) Permalink

A: eggplant

i've a cozy little flat in what is known as old man hat (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 2 April 2013 14:41 (1 year ago) Permalink

or alternatively:

"A lasagna doesn't ENJOY getting baked...if you know what I mean bro. L'chaim."

i've a cozy little flat in what is known as old man hat (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 2 April 2013 14:42 (1 year ago) Permalink

this is still and will remain an entirely bullshit argument whose only practical effect is to explicitly or implicitly advance the idea that she deserved the response she got,

It's not an 'argument,' and I don't believe that she deserved the response that she got, in any way.

Walter Galt, Tuesday, 2 April 2013 16:42 (1 year ago) Permalink

no, there is literally no space for a third view here

mister borges (darraghmac), Tuesday, 2 April 2013 16:49 (1 year ago) Permalink

heh

Walter Galt, Tuesday, 2 April 2013 16:53 (1 year ago) Permalink

Once you throw dogma out the window there's plenty of room for ambivalence.

tsrobodo, Tuesday, 2 April 2013 16:53 (1 year ago) Permalink

i am laughing so much at the idea that taking photographs of random people is not ok to do, ever

throw every high-school senior in a photography class in jail

ampersand cooper black (elmo argonaut), Tuesday, 2 April 2013 16:54 (1 year ago) Permalink

Yes!

mister borges (darraghmac), Tuesday, 2 April 2013 16:55 (1 year ago) Permalink

especially don't photograph cops, they hate it

ampersand cooper black (elmo argonaut), Tuesday, 2 April 2013 16:57 (1 year ago) Permalink

dismantle the surveillance infrastructure of our modern police state, while we're at it

ampersand cooper black (elmo argonaut), Tuesday, 2 April 2013 16:58 (1 year ago) Permalink

no, there is literally no space for a third view here

the third view you're talking about is only accessible to some of the people participating in this conversation

the pheromones of hot clothing (DJP), Tuesday, 2 April 2013 17:12 (1 year ago) Permalink

richards used a photograph to identify a person who was in violation of the conference guidelines. her use of photography is only being scolded as 'wrong' because it gave her agency and subverted the established hierarchy

let's see whether that argument still holds up the next time its proponents encounter a 'booth babe' at their next trade show

ampersand cooper black (elmo argonaut), Tuesday, 2 April 2013 17:13 (1 year ago) Permalink

"you're either with us or against us" is p much always a terrible educational/persuasive tool ime djp, my experience of course is irrelevant but hey it's the only one i got

mister borges (darraghmac), Tuesday, 2 April 2013 17:15 (1 year ago) Permalink

the real point is that the more you go on about all of the "mistakes" Adria Richards made in this situation, the more you excuse the heaping pile of shit that was dumped on her; the situation really is that binary, and if you can't tell that from the legion of comments trailing every single fucking article and blog post that's been written about this and disseminated to the wider community, open your fucking eyes

the pheromones of hot clothing (DJP), Tuesday, 2 April 2013 17:16 (1 year ago) Permalink

I am very pointedly not saying "you are either with us or against us"; I am saying "you are with them; are you sure you want to be?"

the pheromones of hot clothing (DJP), Tuesday, 2 April 2013 17:17 (1 year ago) Permalink

and i'm saying put me with them if you like, i guess.

mister borges (darraghmac), Tuesday, 2 April 2013 17:18 (1 year ago) Permalink

you can't have your dongle and eat it too

Heyman (crüt), Tuesday, 2 April 2013 17:19 (1 year ago) Permalink

I mean if it's yr view that anything but unqualified beatification of adria is 'you're with them' then i cant see any point in pretending that's not 'against us'

mister borges (darraghmac), Tuesday, 2 April 2013 17:22 (1 year ago) Permalink

o plz

ampersand cooper black (elmo argonaut), Tuesday, 2 April 2013 17:22 (1 year ago) Permalink

How, exactly, is "Adria did nothing to deserve the bullshit that's been slung her way" equivalent to unqualified beatification?

the pheromones of hot clothing (DJP), Tuesday, 2 April 2013 17:29 (1 year ago) Permalink

choosing to damn both sides (even if unequally) isn't being objective, it's making a choice that has pragmatic connotations just like choosing to focus on one or the other side.

ryan, Tuesday, 2 April 2013 17:40 (1 year ago) Permalink

I should that doesn't mean we're condemned to this particular "either/or" but we'd have to think carefully about how to get beyond it in a way that doesn't boil down to "well she fucked up a little too."

ryan, Tuesday, 2 April 2013 17:43 (1 year ago) Permalink

the same equivalence that states that thinking her posting the pics on twitter wasn't a great move is equivalent to approval of every vile internet comment slung her way since xps

mister borges (darraghmac), Tuesday, 2 April 2013 17:44 (1 year ago) Permalink

Xpost: mainly because saying that isn't really past the original "either/or" we're stuck in.

ryan, Tuesday, 2 April 2013 17:45 (1 year ago) Permalink

final point being you're choosing sides even when (especially when) you think you aren't.

ryan, Tuesday, 2 April 2013 17:46 (1 year ago) Permalink

I hate having my picture taken, hate HATE hate, but it's an occupational hazard. taking a picture of me at dinner would under most circumstances be bullshit; however if I am in public talking a lot of offensive bullshit and you're having to listen to it guess what I am consenting to have you document my assholism. don't want somebody whose comfort you're totally oblivious to taking your picture, maybe dial back the sexist garbage and voila, Adria Richards isn't taking your picture. the "but is it wrong to post their picture! two wrongs don't" etc line doesn't arise if they themselves haven't already announced by their actions that they don't give a shit about decorum. people who think they get to call the shots about what counts as decorum and who has to follow its protocols when they themselves don't...are dicks and should have their pictures posted on the damn internet for me to laugh at, is what I'm saying

not feeling those lighters (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 2 April 2013 17:50 (1 year ago) Permalink

very otm

Heyman (crüt), Tuesday, 2 April 2013 17:54 (1 year ago) Permalink

booming

ampersand cooper black (elmo argonaut), Tuesday, 2 April 2013 17:57 (1 year ago) Permalink

i think part of the conflict among well-meaning people on this issue boils down to what "level of observation" you choose to proceed from.

feminist criticism proceeds from "patriarchy"--it's gonna observe that context and show how what happens is determined by that context. that also means feminism is gonna exclude certain things (just as discussed above in terms of the universality of exclusion). patriarchy is not capable of exhaustively determining the context for every social phenomenon.

but since such exclusions are in a sense universal that revelation doesn't invalidate feminism. quite the contrary. it's at this point of recognition that you take on accountability for siding with feminism (ie, that you observe patriarchy) in this case or against it. given the situation as best i can see it (the famously misogynistic atmosphere of a tech conference) it seems a no brainer to side with feminism here. but i dont get the last word.

ryan, Tuesday, 2 April 2013 18:11 (1 year ago) Permalink

There's a pretty huge leap from photojournalism to the slippery slope of cameraphone justice. I think those guys were pricks! But I won't ever think that invites "Snap. Twitter. GUILTY." That's insane, and seriously dangerous!

She Got the Shakes, Tuesday, 2 April 2013 20:54 (1 year ago) Permalink

"seriously dangerous"

ampersand cooper black (elmo argonaut), Tuesday, 2 April 2013 21:01 (1 year ago) Permalink

someone might be culpable for their gross behavior STOP HELP THIS IS MADNESS

ampersand cooper black (elmo argonaut), Tuesday, 2 April 2013 21:02 (1 year ago) Permalink

apropos of nothing

but Limbaugh appears to be getting the message — in his own way. Two weeks ago, he misinterpreted new Beyonce lyrics as sending a message that “she married the rich guy” and “now understands it’s worth it to bow down” to her husband. The next day, he told listeners: “The news is out that of course I’m back into my misinge — , m — , m — , well, misoge — , right, right, whatever it is.”

four Marxes plus four Obamas plus four Bin Ladens (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 2 April 2013 21:03 (1 year ago) Permalink

oh Rushpaws

the pheromones of hot clothing (DJP), Tuesday, 2 April 2013 21:04 (1 year ago) Permalink

theres something appealingly tech-y about treating the unfolding of events as a unwanted outcome that can be traced back to a single bug in the system, i.e. adria richards taking a photo

max, Tuesday, 2 April 2013 21:17 (1 year ago) Permalink

i really thought/hoped pycon would be a bit more diverse than what that photo showed.

Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 2 April 2013 21:23 (1 year ago) Permalink

"seriously dangerous"
― ampersand cooper black (elmo argonaut)

Seriously dangerous.

She Got the Shakes, Tuesday, 2 April 2013 21:26 (1 year ago) Permalink

how's life, Tuesday, 2 April 2013 21:38 (1 year ago) Permalink

dangerously serious

ampersand cooper black (elmo argonaut), Tuesday, 2 April 2013 21:55 (1 year ago) Permalink

snap. twitter. GUILTY.

ampersand cooper black (elmo argonaut), Tuesday, 2 April 2013 22:00 (1 year ago) Permalink

Not inaccurate tbf

mister borges (darraghmac), Tuesday, 2 April 2013 22:15 (1 year ago) Permalink

WON'T SOMEBODY THINK ABOUT THE SEXISTS

media conglomerates are pedaling the same product (stevie), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 06:39 (1 year ago) Permalink

"nobody likes a squealer"

media conglomerates are pedaling the same product (stevie), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 06:40 (1 year ago) Permalink

I'm not sure if you're suggesting that's what I've said? My point is more about how dangerous (I know Elmo doesn't care for that word, or finds that I'm being dramatic?) I think that court-by-cameraphone can be. It's not about defending sexists, it's about how slippery of a slope this kind of thing is. I don't know the whole story of anything just because I've seen a picture that somebody Tweeted - and I seem to see more and more of the types of pictures of people on Twitter where someone has taken a snap to run with a caption saying "this guy stole my guitar - anybody know him?" (or, more commonly, "look at this strange looking/poorly dressed/ugly person," but that's a different kind of damning). I guess the feeling here is that this is some kind of punk-rock justice, but I think it's a bit closer to the scarier side of things.

I shouldn't have to say that I also think those guys were dicks, and that I think that the people threatening that woman were heinous.

She Got the Shakes, Wednesday, 3 April 2013 07:07 (1 year ago) Permalink

Not suggesting that's what you've said, Shakes, just summing up what I see as the larger tenor of a certain take on this case. I don't think this is "punk rock justice", not least since this story ended with the victim losing her job for speaking up, which doesn't sound too just to me.

media conglomerates are pedaling the same product (stevie), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 07:36 (1 year ago) Permalink

I think we've all agreed on that tbf.

mister borges (darraghmac), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 08:28 (1 year ago) Permalink

have we? glad to hear it!

media conglomerates are pedaling the same product (stevie), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 09:12 (1 year ago) Permalink

was responding directly to I guess the feeling here is that this is some kind of punk-rock justice btw so

media conglomerates are pedaling the same product (stevie), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 09:15 (1 year ago) Permalink

Sorry, I meant that the general feeling seemed to be that this type of 'naming & shaming'/taking-pictures-in-the-act thing was seen as a kind of punk-rock justice, not that justice had been done in this case. I don't think anyone should have lost their jobs here.

Walter Galt, Wednesday, 3 April 2013 10:04 (1 year ago) Permalink

sorry, but that's bullshit. there were guidelines for how conference attendees were to behave. there were conference organizers tasked with making sure those guidelines were followed. she tweeted an identifying photo of the guy in violation and tagged it so the organizers would see it. it worked, and they pulled richards & the other guy aside to deal with the matter.

this wasn't justice via twitter mob, it was an extremely focused and effective appeal to the appropriate authority. that's not exactly "punk rock"

ampersand cooper black (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 11:18 (1 year ago) Permalink

^^^ a thousand times yes

media conglomerates are pedaling the same product (stevie), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 11:43 (1 year ago) Permalink

Seems to me that after taking a picture of those dudes and Tweeting "Not cool. Jokes about forking repo's in a sexual way and "big" dongles. Right behind me #pycon," she then Tweeted, two minutes later, "Can someone talk to these guys about their conduct? I'm in lightning talks, top right near stage, 10 rows back #pycon" to over 12,000 people.
She didn't "@" anyone in the Tweet.
So she's asked "someone" to confront two dudes who will now be identifiable based on the photo she posted without any full explanation/context. And though some people in this thread believe that "twitter is a place generally accepted as a tool for frivolous chatter," I don't see it that way. That's a seriously dangerous (yep) way to deal with this type of situation.

Walter Galt, Wednesday, 3 April 2013 12:57 (1 year ago) Permalink

seriously dangerous

lmao

caek, Wednesday, 3 April 2013 13:00 (1 year ago) Permalink

FYI these were the top two personal blog opinion pieces that came back on my google search; I did not do any special searching or filtering aside from searching "Adria Richards" and discarding news stories

Also, the anti- story was ranked as more relevant than the pro- story.

the pheromones of hot clothing (DJP), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 13:21 (1 year ago) Permalink

I wouldn't recommend anyone clicking on that second link and giving the author the traffic; it's a hideous article.

Walter Galt, Wednesday, 3 April 2013 13:28 (1 year ago) Permalink

they literally use that traffic to shoot down u.s. drones with black-market missiles. literally.

s.clover, Wednesday, 3 April 2013 13:36 (1 year ago) Permalink

(although, haha yeah, ew.)

s.clover, Wednesday, 3 April 2013 13:37 (1 year ago) Permalink

she tweeted an identifying photo of the guy in violation and tagged it so the organizers would see it

Why not just email the photo to the organizers then?

my father will guide me up the stairs to bed (anagram), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 13:40 (1 year ago) Permalink

Because if you do it in public they're less likely to be able to brush it under the carpet/ignore your issue.

media conglomerates are pedaling the same product (stevie), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 13:51 (1 year ago) Permalink

So she's asked "someone" to confront two dudes who will now be identifiable based on the photo she posted without any full explanation/context.

Having attended umpteen thousand professional conferences, I can promise you the appropriate people were monitoring the #pycon hashtag in real time and did not need to be @-addressed.

ARE YOU HIRING A NANNY OR A SHAMAN (Phil D.), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 13:52 (1 year ago) Permalink

Because if you do it in public they're less likely to be able to brush it under the carpet/ignore your issue

So attempt to work it out in private first and then take it public if they try and brush it under the carpet.

my father will guide me up the stairs to bed (anagram), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 14:01 (1 year ago) Permalink

Why?

the pheromones of hot clothing (DJP), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 14:05 (1 year ago) Permalink

Because that's the standard way of dealing with HR issues in organizations all over the world.

my father will guide me up the stairs to bed (anagram), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 14:07 (1 year ago) Permalink

I missed the part of this where Adria Richards was affiliated with an HR department

the pheromones of hot clothing (DJP), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 14:08 (1 year ago) Permalink

SERIOUSLY DANGEROUS

ampersand cooper black (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 14:15 (1 year ago) Permalink

Well, the incident didn't happen in private, did it? So why should Adria Richards keep her objections private? Besides, if she first went to the men or organizers privately and wasn't satisfied with their response, she'd be derided as some kind of extortionist if she told them 'fine, I'm gonna have to take this public'.

I've reported on people caught in the act of bullying while wearing a company shirt. Called the company rather than try to reach some sort of fake compromise with people who were assholes, because the only thing creating a problem between us was (wait for it) their behaviour. Were the bullies angry with me when I straight-up told them I'd reported them? Yes, of course they were, but I expected that the combination of belligerence and stupidity that underpinned their need to shit on other people also underpinned their denial of responsibility for the actions that brought us to that point.

karl lagerlout (suzy), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 14:25 (1 year ago) Permalink

"Can someone talk to these guys about their conduct?"

such a SERIOUSLY DANGEROUS request

ampersand cooper black (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 14:33 (1 year ago) Permalink

what i'm hearing is: "why couldn't richards be more circumspect and ladylike before taking action? why didn't she employ less effective remedies first? as white men, don't these guys have a god-given RIGHT to save face once they're caught? isn't that in the u.s. constitution somewhere?"

ampersand cooper black (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 14:38 (1 year ago) Permalink

Cant help what yr hearing

mister borges (darraghmac), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 14:40 (1 year ago) Permalink

elmo totally otm. Also, to restate from upthread: "Why didn't she do what I, a white/man would have done?" "Why didn't she decide to use the same 'correct' strategies that I am equipped with/trained to use, like confrontation?"

lets just remember to blame the patriarchy for (in orbit), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 14:43 (1 year ago) Permalink

I'm still amazed that one of the pieces of evidence used to show that Adria Richards is an unreasonable, divisive harpy who is looking for offense everywhere she goes is because she once objected to someone using porn metaphors in a professional presentation

Like, what the hell is wrong with these people?

the pheromones of hot clothing (DJP), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 14:48 (1 year ago) Permalink

adria richards is a misandrist who wants to take away your dick jokes and your gonzo porn, the danger is serious

ampersand cooper black (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 14:50 (1 year ago) Permalink

Not everybody has the temperament to go all confrontational in public and feel confident of not being aggressed even more or shamed by their aggressor or other bad outcomes. Most of the time *I* don't, and I'm not exactly a shrinking water lily.

It might not seem "confrontational" to say, "That behavior is inappropriate/offensive. Could you please discontinue it?" but look at how offended THE INTERNET is by having its judgement questioned over this brouhaha and THE INTERNET WASN'T EVEN ONE OF THE PARTIES INVOLVED. That's the only evidence you need about how someone can flare up over even a meek request if it cuts across what they think they're entitled to.

lets just remember to blame the patriarchy for (in orbit), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 14:51 (1 year ago) Permalink

Not sure who has suggested confrontation. Wouldnt do it myself, as a white man who can lift boxes ad grow a beard and everything.

mister borges (darraghmac), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 15:01 (1 year ago) Permalink

There have been lots of responses along the lines of "Why didn't she just ask them to stop? Why can't she deal with the problem face-to-face? It's so passive-aggressive to appeal to authority" and so on, FYI.

lets just remember to blame the patriarchy for (in orbit), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 15:03 (1 year ago) Permalink

I think the internet needs a refresher course on what passive-aggressive actually means.

karl lagerlout (suzy), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 15:07 (1 year ago) Permalink

the only thing "wrong" she did was not follow the guidelines stated by PyCon for reporting harassing behavior, yet PyCon staff still were able to handle the situation

This wouldn't even be a story if dude's company hadn't decided to terminate his employment, a decision Adria Richards neither forced them into nor publicly cosigned; in fact, she publicly stated she disagreed with dude's termination. This, of course, did not stop the braying horde from holding her personally responsible for dude losing his job, a mob so hopped up on their desire to take this woman down a peg that when dude identified himself and apologized publicly to her for offending her, they turned on him and started calling him names for the crime of showing empathy and remorse.

the pheromones of hot clothing (DJP), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 15:09 (1 year ago) Permalink

Yeah, in addition to all the victim-blaming there was more than a touch of 'she's uppity' - particularly by the woman who wrote about working with her on another conference.

karl lagerlout (suzy), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 15:14 (1 year ago) Permalink

^^^^ was gonna say there's a massive section of the tech commentariat who seem to be suffering intellectual blue-balls right now cos they're not "allowed" to say the word "uppity" and yet are so clearly desperate to do so.

media conglomerates are pedaling the same product (stevie), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 15:16 (1 year ago) Permalink

lol I had written "this uppity woman" and then took it out because I didn't think it needed spelling out

the pheromones of hot clothing (DJP), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 15:18 (1 year ago) Permalink

I'll join ye happily in arguin against the entire disgusting internet, yknow

mister borges (darraghmac), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 15:19 (1 year ago) Permalink

spelling out the obvious is my stock in trade, Dan...

media conglomerates are pedaling the same product (stevie), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 15:23 (1 year ago) Permalink

sorry, but that's bullshit. there were guidelines for how conference attendees were to behave. there were conference organizers tasked with making sure those guidelines were followed. she tweeted an identifying photo of the guy in violation and tagged it so the organizers would see it. it worked, and they pulled richards & the other guy aside to deal with the matter.

this wasn't justice via twitter mob, it was an extremely focused and effective appeal to the appropriate authority. that's not exactly "punk rock"

― ampersand cooper black (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, April 3, 2013 7:18 AM (6 hours ago)

this is still sort of my thing (i don't care about the picture thing, i think it's weird but i don't think it was 'wrong') - are we outraged because he said something sexist or because he broke the sacred rule of tech conferences, which we all care so deeply about. i suppose the answer for most is 'both' but my position was always "oh, that's the comment that started all this?"

k3vin k., Wednesday, 3 April 2013 17:37 (1 year ago) Permalink

My degree of offense to what he said is immaterial. The bigger point is that this specific conference had set out explicit rules of conduct precisely because it wanted to be run as a welcoming, inclusive event and this dude with his dumb comments broke them. She was well within her right to report him and the blowback she got as a result is ridiculous.

the pheromones of hot clothing (DJP), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 17:48 (1 year ago) Permalink

i mean what if one of the rules of the tech conference was u had to wear a tie if youre a guy. it'd seem p drastic to report them for breaking the rules. so the whole "she was just alerting the proper authorities to rule breakers" is kind of a red herring; the issue is whether dongle jokes are particularly oppressive. given that i'm approaching this issue from a position of privilege i could respect the opinion of someone else who finds it not OK. i just probably wouldn't want to hang out with adria she seems like kind of a drag tbh

xp

k3vin k., Wednesday, 3 April 2013 17:51 (1 year ago) Permalink

excellent! another priceless white guy perspective!!

media conglomerates are pedaling the same product (stevie), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 17:52 (1 year ago) Permalink

that's exactly what this situation really needed!!!

media conglomerates are pedaling the same product (stevie), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 17:52 (1 year ago) Permalink

adria seems like a drag

thank you for your insight!!

media conglomerates are pedaling the same product (stevie), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 17:53 (1 year ago) Permalink

spectacular false equivalency, good work

ampersand cooper black (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 17:53 (1 year ago) Permalink

probably wouldn't want to hang out with adria she seems like kind of a drag tbh

Hahahah omg you/they/people JUST CANNOT STOP, can they?

lets just remember to blame the patriarchy for (in orbit), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 17:54 (1 year ago) Permalink

i'm glad we have someone itt to tell us what this is REALLY about

ampersand cooper black (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 17:54 (1 year ago) Permalink

p.s. someone please explain why men feel SO oppressed by having to wear neckties and why i've seen it brought up on both the rolling racism AND sexism threads today

ampersand cooper black (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 17:58 (1 year ago) Permalink

k3vin k., Wednesday, 3 April 2013 18:00 (1 year ago) Permalink

I've never had to wear a necktie except to weddings and funerals and high school prom.

Heyman (crüt), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 18:01 (1 year ago) Permalink

sometimes I'm bummed that I don't have more occasions to wear neckties to

the pheromones of hot clothing (DJP), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 18:02 (1 year ago) Permalink

If neckties and, I don't know, affirmative action (in scare quotes, natch) are the most noticeable ways that white/men are oppressed, so much so that they always want to tell us about how they know from oppression because NECKTIES, I just do not know. No, wait, I do know: stop your mouth from even moving.

lets just remember to blame the patriarchy for (in orbit), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 18:10 (1 year ago) Permalink

the necktie is, like, a NOOSE, maaan.

ampersand cooper black (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 18:16 (1 year ago) Permalink

I'm just trying to imagine the environment where someone could feel unsettled and unsafe by catching sight of someone not wearing a necktie

the pheromones of hot clothing (DJP), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 18:17 (1 year ago) Permalink

i mean what if one of the rules of the tech conference was u had to wear a tie if youre a guy. it'd seem p drastic to report them for breaking the rules.

can't get over this comment, it's so perfect

ampersand cooper black (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 18:32 (1 year ago) Permalink

The bigger point is that this specific conference had set out explicit rules of conduct precisely because it wanted to be run as a welcoming, inclusive event and this dude with his dumb comments broke them during a talk about making the industry more welcoming to women.

ARE YOU HIRING A NANNY OR A SHAMAN (Phil D.), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 18:35 (1 year ago) Permalink

lol yeah forgot that little detail

the pheromones of hot clothing (DJP), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 18:39 (1 year ago) Permalink

p.s. lmao @ u if you don't think men AND women aren't routinely chewed out for being inappropriately attired in the workplace or when representing their employers off-site, professionals of a certain caliber are absolutely ruthless about that sort of thing.

don't get me wrong, professional dress codes aren't something i endorse but gimme a break with the faux-naif "what sort of monster would criticize a dude for not wearing a tie" line

ampersand cooper black (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 18:40 (1 year ago) Permalink

is it really so inconceivable that, idk, many people itt might make a 'dongle' joke to one of their friends during a boring conference

iatee, Wednesday, 3 April 2013 18:41 (1 year ago) Permalink

my fear is saying something offensive without realizing it due to my particular "privilege" (white, male, heterosexual, etc)-- i like to think i am pretty conscious about what i say and when but by the very nature of these things they can sneak up on you. i hope in those circumstances someone could bring it to my attention and my apology would be accepted.

it's a bit of a red-herring that there's some idea of a "thought police" or someone wanting to dictate or control other people's conversations. it's more about showing mutual respect and understanding and trying your damnedest to be inclusive.

ryan, Wednesday, 3 April 2013 18:48 (1 year ago) Permalink

this dude getting fired or not is up to his employer i think, but from what i can tell it doesn't seem like he was being very thoughtful or careful about his words. and in that particular environment that's an important skill.

ryan, Wednesday, 3 April 2013 18:51 (1 year ago) Permalink

ha you guys are...not this dense, i've posted here for like 5 years now, i know this for a fact.

the point of the analogy was to point out that no 1 cares about the "sanctity of tech conference guidelines", not to make a stealth men's rights assertion

k3vin k., Wednesday, 3 April 2013 18:53 (1 year ago) Permalink

all this hubbub about neckties is weird

beach situations (Austerity Ponies), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 18:54 (1 year ago) Permalink

so, what? is richards somehow at fault because she didn't realize that the conference guidelines are only there for appearances' sake, and that nobody is actually expected to abide by them? so, uh, shame on her for invoking them? what on earth

ampersand cooper black (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 18:58 (1 year ago) Permalink

is it really so inconceivable that, idk, many people itt might make a 'dongle' joke to one of their friends during a boring conference

If you aren't a complete dumbass, you know better than to do this; I am known as King Dick Joke on this board and I have never done this at any conference/training session I've attended, including ones where I've gone with coworkers who were my roommates at the time or coworkers who considered me to be close enough to invite to their kids' christenings.

I say this as someone who has engaged in inappropriate banter with coworkers of both sexes during lunch breaks or after work; said inappropriate banter always took place amongst a closed circle away from the general work environment and stopped at anyone's request; also, people frequently apologized if a joke crossed a line. There was an underlying respect and an understanding of each others' perspective that allowed us to take liberties in our humor with each other, and more importantly it would stop if it began to bother someone even if that someone wasn't the target. I don't see that situation as analogous to here; furthermore, there were other groups in the company who went WAY over the line in multiple ways, to the point where there's one dude in particular who to this day probably doesn't know that I consider him to be a racist monster and a dealbreaker to any professional situation I may consider in the future.

the pheromones of hot clothing (DJP), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 19:01 (1 year ago) Permalink

I am known as King Dick Joke on this board

(all of ilx silently nods in affirmation)

Aimless, Wednesday, 3 April 2013 19:03 (1 year ago) Permalink

djp otm

how's life, Wednesday, 3 April 2013 19:07 (1 year ago) Permalink

There was an underlying respect and an understanding of each others' perspective that allowed us to take liberties in our humor with each other

Why don't you think this is exactly how the two dudes having a private conversation adjacent to Adria Richards felt?

誤訳侮辱, Wednesday, 3 April 2013 19:15 (1 year ago) Permalink

having been refreshed on what large groups of developers are like, I am now kind of amazed that this didn't end up much worse

basically I watched a small group present an overview of a cool new project and several dudes kept asking them why they did things that way, why they didn't use this other superior technique that the questioner was familiar with, and whether they thought this project would actually work

it's a small miracle that anything resembling civil discourse happens at conferences

I, rrational (mh), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 19:16 (1 year ago) Permalink

many people itt might make a 'dongle' joke to one of their friends during a boring conference

If it were a professional conference, attended as part of one's professional job, then no, this is not an option. end of discussion.

At such a conference you are surrounded not by your work buddies, but by other conference attendees. This is blindingly apparent when you are sitting in a large conference room with hundreds of others. The barest comprehension of professionalism and collegiality screams that this is the wrong place for 'dongle' jokes.

Aimless, Wednesday, 3 April 2013 19:16 (1 year ago) Permalink

Really?

lets just remember to blame the patriarchy for (in orbit), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 19:16 (1 year ago) Permalink

Sry that was xxxpost.

lets just remember to blame the patriarchy for (in orbit), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 19:17 (1 year ago) Permalink

Why don't you think this is exactly how the two dudes having a private conversation adjacent to Adria Richards felt?

amazing

ampersand cooper black (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 19:17 (1 year ago) Permalink

Why don't you think this is exactly how the two dudes having a private conversation adjacent to Adria Richards felt?

Because they were doing it in a room full of people during a conference talk about making the tech industry more inclusive to women as opposed to in a tiny lunchroom with one table and a behind a closed door?

the pheromones of hot clothing (DJP), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 19:17 (1 year ago) Permalink

I understand K3vin's original point about the conference rules. I think k3vin misses the point, but I find some of these necktie responses bewildering.

K3vin's point: Why are people in this thread stressing the conference policy, when no one cares about conference policies, but what we really care about is sexual harassment.

My response to K3vin: People in this thread and elsewhere stress the conference policy, because sexual harassment policy is put in place to put everyone on an equal footing to create clear lines so as to avoid these situations, and protect people who would be the target of harassment. Harassment policy serves a very important purpose. This case is a perfect example of how the policy works. People can cite the policy. It protects everybody, including would-be perpetrators!

beach situations (Austerity Ponies), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 19:18 (1 year ago) Permalink

Has any ilxor been to this particular con?

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 3 April 2013 19:19 (1 year ago) Permalink

a good friend of mine attended in either 2008 or 2009 when it was in chicago

I, rrational (mh), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 19:20 (1 year ago) Permalink

was it remarkable in any way from other tech confs? i think the perl one takes place on a boat

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 3 April 2013 19:22 (1 year ago) Permalink

that "everybody knows an Adria Richard article" is vile

the late great, Wednesday, 3 April 2013 19:23 (1 year ago) Permalink

**makes sexual jokes within earshot of dozens of people** THIS IS A PRIVATE CONVERSATION

ampersand cooper black (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 19:23 (1 year ago) Permalink

xp: I think I got about halfway through it before I just couldn't take any more; I really felt like I needed a shower

the pheromones of hot clothing (DJP), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 19:24 (1 year ago) Permalink

I don't remember any particular issues with presentations or audiences that he mentioned, although we did briefly talk about one of the attendees he recognized -- she wasn't presenting, but I thought it was cool that he was at the conference since I'd used some sites she'd developed. Unfortunately, a lot of articles at the time were fond of dropping her dating history in. Definitely a sexist angle, but that wasn't really anything to do with the conference.

There was a craft brew (lol) party at the conference, I think.

I, rrational (mh), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 19:27 (1 year ago) Permalink

I guess a certain website was overdocumenting her for a bit: http://gawker.com/leah-culver/

I, rrational (mh), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 19:28 (1 year ago) Permalink

what the hell

the pheromones of hot clothing (DJP), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 19:30 (1 year ago) Permalink

(btw the writing and gossip involved in all this is about ten times more disgusting than dongle jokes)

I, rrational (mh), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 19:30 (1 year ago) Permalink

I mean that article stops just short of baldly stating "woman tricks men into coding for her using her vagina"

the pheromones of hot clothing (DJP), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 19:34 (1 year ago) Permalink

gross

beach situations (Austerity Ponies), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 19:35 (1 year ago) Permalink

Is it sexist to point this out? Is it sexist to point this out? Is it sexist to point this out? Is it sexist to point this out? Is it sexist to point this out? Is it sexist to point this out? Is it sexist to point this out? Is it sexist to point this out? Is it sexist to point this out? Is it sexist to point this out? Is it sexist to point this out? Is it sexist to point this out? Is it sexist to point this out? Is it sexist to point this out? Is it sexist to point this out? Is it sexist to point this out? Is it sexist to point this out? Is it sexist to point this out? Is it sexist to point this out?

Heyman (crüt), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 19:36 (1 year ago) Permalink

(btw the writing and gossip involved in all this is about ten times more disgusting than dongle jokes)

― I, rrational (mh), Wednesday, April 3, 2013 3:30 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this, this, this. Dongle jokes -- crossing a line, inappropriate, makes people feel uncomfortable, shouldn't be done. The stuff being written about Richards, otoh, evinces such shockingly virulent misogyny that it only drives home why she felt compelled to do what she did.

--808 542137 (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 19:37 (1 year ago) Permalink

I think the wider angle was mostly "average programmer (because women can't be good at that, right) makes good business deals because she's dating tech scene dudes" which is straight-up bullshit because friends-of-friends in that scene help each other launch all kinds of crap all the time. But she's a woman, etc.

Sorry to track on to this from the pycon thing -- pycon was totally boring when my friend was there. Except the free beer.

I, rrational (mh), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 19:37 (1 year ago) Permalink

btw I was referencing the article I linked when I said writing and gossip, not the events of 2013

I, rrational (mh), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 19:38 (1 year ago) Permalink

also let's talk for a second about how a Gawker writer doing a hit piece on a woman who dated a former Gawker editor is not at all sketchy/suspect

the pheromones of hot clothing (DJP), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 19:39 (1 year ago) Permalink

ah ok. well what I said stands anyway.

--808 542137 (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 19:39 (1 year ago) Permalink

I've met a few misogynist coders in my time. My company got rid of them as soon as they could. It sounds like this is what happened to the 'jokesters'. Chances are good the company knew they were shitheads, already wanted to fire them and saw their chance.

Aimless, Wednesday, 3 April 2013 19:41 (1 year ago) Permalink

If she doesn't want to be famous, Culver might want to take a look at her relentless technosexuality, which more than hints at the acquisition of influence rather than intimacy as its goal.

I love how techno sexuality just links to another list of dudes she's dated.

Is it sexist to point this out? Perhaps, but not nearly as sexist as touting technical skills while sleeping your way to the top.

Everything about this article is truly disgusting.

beach situations (Austerity Ponies), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 19:46 (1 year ago) Permalink

relentless

relentless technosexuality (DJP), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 19:48 (1 year ago) Permalink

it's really frustrating how the anti-adria-richards forces have managed to completely distort the facts of the case. i think it's been stated more than once on this thread that the two dudes were NOT having a private conversation that richards overheard (which, yes, would have been bad enough). she had turned around to talk to one of them and his friend (the guy who ultimately got fired) butted in with dongle jokes. she tried to redirect the conversation and he ignored her. that's when she got pissed.

1staethyr, Wednesday, 3 April 2013 19:49 (1 year ago) Permalink

I'm just glad that anonymous over at gawker had the courage to call this woman out on her sexism.

beach situations (Austerity Ponies), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 19:49 (1 year ago) Permalink

My understanding of the order of events based on both her the fired dude's words is that she was talking to one dude about dissatisfaction with a portion of the keynote talk and the guy who got fired butted in with the forking joke, which caused her to disengage; dude then went on to make the dongle jokes after she had bailed on the conversation (during the segment of the presentation when the speaker was talking about making tech more accessible/open to women).

relentless technosexuality (DJP), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 19:55 (1 year ago) Permalink

So many words written about events that took place in less than two minutes

I, rrational (mh), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 19:55 (1 year ago) Permalink

Big Time Technosexuality

ARE YOU HIRING A NANNY OR A SHAMAN (Phil D.), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 19:55 (1 year ago) Permalink

straight-up bullshit because friends-of-friends in that scene help each other launch all kinds of crap all the time. But she's a woman, etc.

can I just otm this 6000 times over? the amount of backslapping, linking, retweeting, funding, plug-your-site-if-you'll-plug-mine, talk-at-your-conference-if-you'll-do-x-for-me that goes on between guys, and the second a woman is involved it's like "ohhh, geek slut everyone! look at the evil calculating bitch taking advantage with her mysterious woman ways which surely involve sex!"

(I think I've said before that I only realised years after dropping out of CS that all the guys were hanging out in each other's dorm rooms talking about assignments all the time, but the second a girl asks a question everyone says "look at that dumb bitch, fluttering her eyelashes so everyone else does her work for her" etc. and it doesn't seem to stop a decade after everyone's left university)

susuwatari teenage riot (a passing spacecadet), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 19:56 (1 year ago) Permalink

"forking joke"

I offer about as much diversity as a saltine cracker. (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 19:56 (1 year ago) Permalink

What ultimately protects all these sexist shitheads is that they have specific technical skills that are in demand. If they are good enough coders someone will always hold their nose and hire them. This gives them a sense of protection, so they feel free to expose their vileness in public. They eventually believe that their coding skill and ability to find work proves their superiority and validates their stupidest ideas and beliefs.

P.S. Most of them are libertarians.

Aimless, Wednesday, 3 April 2013 19:59 (1 year ago) Permalink

Wait was the guy who got fired Johnny dangerously?

pandemic, Wednesday, 3 April 2013 19:59 (1 year ago) Permalink

aimless, that seems to apply to most intrinsic or specialised skills. i'm thinking about athletes.

I offer about as much diversity as a saltine cracker. (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 20:02 (1 year ago) Permalink

also musicians, and bankers, and chefs, and lawyers, and businessmen, and suddenly it's starting to seem like this has nothing to do with "intrinsic or specialised skills"

relentless technosexuality (DJP), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 20:04 (1 year ago) Permalink

I think most people are socially awkward when in situations outside of their normal sphere. It's just some people, through their personal lives or careers, have a wider range of social interaction.

I, rrational (mh), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 20:06 (1 year ago) Permalink

who hires businessmen?

Aimless, Wednesday, 3 April 2013 20:06 (1 year ago) Permalink

other businessmen

ampersand cooper black (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 20:07 (1 year ago) Permalink

more loathsome businessmen

Heyman (crüt), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 20:08 (1 year ago) Permalink

senior businessmen

I, rrational (mh), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 20:08 (1 year ago) Permalink

Why was the other guy fired (obv why was aria fired too)

mister borges (darraghmac), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 20:08 (1 year ago) Permalink

Why the other guy was fired:

http://blog.playhaven.com/addressing-pycon/

relentless technosexuality (DJP), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 20:13 (1 year ago) Permalink

Thks, that covers both of em so?

mister borges (darraghmac), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 20:15 (1 year ago) Permalink

omg Phil

relentless technosexuality (DJP), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 20:17 (1 year ago) Permalink

l3ah c. was a notoriously notoriously incompetent person around tech. i hadn't seen those articles before, but i remember seeing links before the site was shut down where she was asking for help on her blog to do something like take the modulus of a number, but didn't know what that was or how to call it that and had come up with a terrible jury-rigged solution, and she was like 'lol, i'll learn to code some day guys!' there was also the story of a party where she sees someone's raid array and yells "oh, hot-swappable!" and before anyone can stop her, yanked out the drives, which were not at all 'hot-swappable' and caused this persons system to come to a screeching halt and destroyed lots of data that had to be restored from backups.

so the sexist stuff about her was not cool, but at the same point there was a general atmosphere of 'wtf how is this person the cto of a company'.

s.clover, Wednesday, 3 April 2013 20:25 (1 year ago) Permalink

darraghmac, only one of the guys from playhaven was fired. adria richards was fired because she "divided the same community she was supposed to unite"...

1staethyr, Wednesday, 3 April 2013 20:27 (1 year ago) Permalink

the story of a party where she sees someone's raid array and yells "oh, hot-swappable!" and before anyone can stop her, yanked out the drives, which were not at all 'hot-swappable' and caused this persons system to come to a screeching halt and destroyed lots of data that had to be restored from backups.

OK this is amazing.

ARE YOU HIRING A NANNY OR A SHAMAN (Phil D.), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 20:27 (1 year ago) Permalink

Her being fired is obv ludicrous, i just didnt want to be mentioning only the guy tbh

mister borges (darraghmac), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 20:29 (1 year ago) Permalink

also musicians, and bankers, and chefs, and lawyers, and businessmen, and suddenly it's starting to seem like this has nothing to do with "intrinsic or specialised skills"
― relentless technosexuality (DJP), Wednesday, April 3, 2013

if you attribute looking the other way on bad behavior solely to skill-based benefit and not to racist/sexist/ageist hierarchies, sure; truth is more likely somewhere on a 70/30 split your way

I offer about as much diversity as a saltine cracker. (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 20:31 (1 year ago) Permalink

lmao at the "hot-swappable" story

relentless technosexuality (DJP), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 20:34 (1 year ago) Permalink

she took the post down but it wasn't about modulus of a number, but rounding to the nearest half:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=104164

s.clover, Wednesday, 3 April 2013 20:40 (1 year ago) Permalink

Wow, so is it common to know this much detail about project managers & developers?

beach situations (Austerity Ponies), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 20:50 (1 year ago) Permalink

lead dev/cto/founder of an internet startup that had some heat for a moment. lots of stories tended to fly around about ppl. like that during the web booms, especially when they were like active bloggers in social media, speaking at conferences, etc.

s.clover, Wednesday, 3 April 2013 20:53 (1 year ago) Permalink

I dislike Lena Dunham, but this "won't anyone think of the men?!?" article still made me LOL: http://www.salon.com/2013/04/03/dunham_cant_write_men_partner/

rallying against young people who wear hats (Nicole), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 20:53 (1 year ago) Permalink

jeez that's bad. looking forward to the entire internet devolving into a continual airing of grievances.

ryan, Wednesday, 3 April 2013 20:56 (1 year ago) Permalink

"looking forward"

mookieproof, Wednesday, 3 April 2013 20:56 (1 year ago) Permalink

I dislike Lena Dunham, but this "won't anyone think of the men?!?" article still made me LOL: http://www.salon.com/2013/04/03/dunham_cant_write_men_partner/

― rallying against young people who wear hats (Nicole), Wednesday, April 3, 2013 4:53 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

what a bad, bad article. when I read stuff like this I think about the fact that people this shitty are making a living writing and then I remember that not really

--808 542137 (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 20:59 (1 year ago) Permalink

it's just so depressingly typical. and now we're linking to it and talking about it. blegh.

ryan, Wednesday, 3 April 2013 21:00 (1 year ago) Permalink

so long as you say something suitably provocative enough to necessitate a response (and the internet is nothing if not an involuntary response machine for provocations) you win.

ryan, Wednesday, 3 April 2013 21:01 (1 year ago) Permalink

Lena Dunham should be able to write realistic men characters, such as Ricky Ricardo and Fred Mertz, and she should make them funny godammit.

Aimless, Wednesday, 3 April 2013 21:02 (1 year ago) Permalink

i suppose it's not as depressing to see Salon sink to this stuff, unlike, say, what's become of the Atlantic.

ryan, Wednesday, 3 April 2013 21:04 (1 year ago) Permalink

I'm sure a jezebel blogger will respond, and then a male slate blogger will take a "middle ground" approach, and then gawker will do a smug, keeping a distance, not-taking-sides piece, and then a (surprise) male blogger will write for XX about how he actually does relate to the male characters.

--808 542137 (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 21:05 (1 year ago) Permalink

not only is that article a screechingly sarcastic whinge but i'm now aware of salon's "popular on reddit" widget

yeesh

ampersand cooper black (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 21:08 (1 year ago) Permalink

Why does Lena Dunham reduce men to walking hard-ons? Because dudes are "simple," as she tells Refinery29 in an interview published this week.

wow, writer reduces opposite sex to one-dimensional sex objects, I had certainly never encountered this until someone gave a woman some crayons

I mean I am totally stating the obvious to the point that I wasn't entirely sure if the whole article was a pisstake, but... it didn't seem to be

susuwatari teenage riot (a passing spacecadet), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 21:08 (1 year ago) Permalink

plus that's clearly not what Dunham said or meant!

--808 542137 (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 21:09 (1 year ago) Permalink

relentless technosexuality (DJP)

curse you Dan I was this close from making my very first display name

kinder, Wednesday, 3 April 2013 21:10 (1 year ago) Permalink

tbf men are actually walking hard-ons

mookieproof, Wednesday, 3 April 2013 21:10 (1 year ago) Permalink

reduce men to walking hard-ons; remove from heat and fold in batter. Bake for 25 minutes at 375 and serve with creme fraiche

relentless technosexuality (DJP), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 21:10 (1 year ago) Permalink

curse you Dan I was this close from making my very first display name

haha oops

all I keep thinking of is the PSB Relentless CD

relentless technosexuality (DJP), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 21:11 (1 year ago) Permalink

kinder, Wednesday, 3 April 2013 21:13 (1 year ago) Permalink

sry hueg

kinder, Wednesday, 3 April 2013 21:13 (1 year ago) Permalink

NO HALF MEASURES

relentless technosexuality (DJP), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 21:14 (1 year ago) Permalink

50% juice

--808 542137 (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 21:15 (1 year ago) Permalink

100% FLAVOUR

relentless technosexuality (DJP), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 21:16 (1 year ago) Permalink

NO HALF MEASURES

― relentless technosexuality (DJP), Wednesday, April 3, 2013 5:14 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

50% juice

― --808 542137 (Hurting 2), Wednesday, April 3, 2013 5:15 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

haha this killed me

Heyman (crüt), Wednesday, 3 April 2013 21:18 (1 year ago) Permalink

Without wishing to be needlessly argumentative, when the issue is unintentionally offensive language making women feel uncomfortable in male-dominated spaces, does it matter if the context is professional or personal? Is there not a case for saying that if there's a chance that female posters will disengage with a board as male-dominated as ILX because of the number of dick jokes it's better to err on the side of caution and not make them?

Des Fusils Pour Banter (ShariVari), Thursday, 4 April 2013 07:33 (1 year ago) Permalink

Pole

mister borges (darraghmac), Thursday, 4 April 2013 07:40 (1 year ago) Permalink

There's definitely a case to be made there, but there is more focus and higher stakes when the context that makes you uncomfortable is your career rather than a message board.

xp thanks to darragh for clarifying it's the dicks rather than the jokes.

Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 4 April 2013 08:47 (1 year ago) Permalink

The first time you're ever right about anything, and you spoil it by a lazy gendered swipe at me in a 67th minute xp beef. Gutted for you.

mister borges (darraghmac), Thursday, 4 April 2013 09:05 (1 year ago) Permalink

Without wishing to be needlessly argumentative, when the issue is unintentionally offensive language making women feel uncomfortable in male-dominated spaces, does it matter if the context is professional or personal? Is there not a case for saying that if there's a chance that female posters will disengage with a board as male-dominated as ILX because of the number of dick jokes it's better to err on the side of caution and not make them?

There absolutely is.

relentless technosexuality (DJP), Thursday, 4 April 2013 12:05 (1 year ago) Permalink

For example, the reduction joke I made upthread could be off putting to people who would like to participate in this thread despite my intent, which was to lampoon the ridiculousness of the guy complaining about Lena Dunham by putting his absurd words in a more absurd context. I don't want that to happen regardless of how clever/funny I think the joke I'm making is. So, from this point forward, I'll refrain from making those types of comments, especially here.

relentless technosexuality (DJP), Thursday, 4 April 2013 13:57 (1 year ago) Permalink

apologies for the jokes I made on this thread. I'm trying to be a better person.

Heyman (crüt), Thursday, 4 April 2013 14:01 (1 year ago) Permalink

I thought yr joek was funny, Dan, but I appreciate that we can all self-reflect a bit more esp in places that are supposed to be chill for everyone.

lets just remember to blame the patriarchy for (in orbit), Thursday, 4 April 2013 14:04 (1 year ago) Permalink

tbf men are actually walking hard-ons

Actually, at present I am seated.

But I'm having so much foehn! (Michael White), Thursday, 4 April 2013 14:27 (1 year ago) Permalink

I thought it was too, but....oh well.

xp

rallying against young people who wear hats (Nicole), Thursday, 4 April 2013 14:29 (1 year ago) Permalink

A funny joke can still make someone uncomfortable. Sometimes the funniest jokes are ones that make people uncomfortable (hi dere, Chris Rock's standup career). I don't think my pathological need to make jokes is more important than having an inclusive, welcoming message board, particularly on a thread where we are talking through issues of sexism.

relentless technosexuality (DJP), Thursday, 4 April 2013 14:36 (1 year ago) Permalink

Admitting you have a problem is the first step

c21m50nm3x1c4n (wins), Thursday, 4 April 2013 14:51 (1 year ago) Permalink

It wasn't really a "dick joke" anyway, the language that might have made anyone uncomfortable had already been used & yr joke was more around the word "reduced" so I doubt there's cause to worry although yr point is well-taken otherwise

c21m50nm3x1c4n (wins), Thursday, 4 April 2013 14:58 (1 year ago) Permalink

A funny joke can still make someone uncomfortable. Sometimes the funniest jokes are ones that make people uncomfortable (hi dere, Chris Rock's standup career). I don't think my pathological need to make jokes is more important than having an inclusive, welcoming message board, particularly on a thread where we are talking through issues of sexism.

― relentless technosexuality (DJP), Thursday, April 4, 2013 9:36 AM (4 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Read this as a speech balloon over a cartoon of a walking hard-on.

beach situations (Austerity Ponies), Monday, 8 April 2013 16:32 (1 year ago) Permalink

John "ROTTEN" Lydon on Aussie TV recently, being an arse.

http://youtu.be/N4ZmopI-GUQ?t=3m26s

DavidM, Wednesday, 10 April 2013 14:48 (1 year ago) Permalink

Yeah, not surprised. I saw some awful interview where he confirmed my worst fears about The Body.

beach situations (Austerity Ponies), Wednesday, 10 April 2013 19:50 (1 year ago) Permalink

He's obviously a prick and no doubt sexist (e.g. use of "birds" in this very clip) but I think where it looks like he is telling the woman "Do not interrupt A MAN" he is just using one of the inflexibly pompous locutions that make up what is left of the poor fella. What a waste.

Eyeball Kicks, Wednesday, 10 April 2013 20:38 (1 year ago) Permalink

He was pretty fucking nasty to Welsh pop singer Duffy (who is TERRIBLE but that's not really important) at an awards show I was at a few years ago.

media conglomerates are pedaling the same product (stevie), Wednesday, 10 April 2013 22:19 (1 year ago) Permalink

Would Ian Curtis have been nicer to duffy, do you think?

My Sunn0))), My Sunn0))), What Have Ye Drone? (wins), Wednesday, 10 April 2013 22:50 (1 year ago) Permalink

Many punk/post-punk musicians fail "The Duffy Test"

relentless technosexuality (DJP), Wednesday, 10 April 2013 23:14 (1 year ago) Permalink

Would Ian Curtis have been nicer to duffy, do you think?

It's hard to be unpleasant to someone when you're dead, I don't think I understand your point?

media conglomerates are pedaling the same product (stevie), Thursday, 11 April 2013 07:19 (1 year ago) Permalink

nm, dumb joke based on already-fading meme "what if john lydon died in 1980 &c". Have to say I'm not at all surprised to learn johnny's a sexist though.

My Sunn0))), My Sunn0))), What Have Ye Drone? (wins), Thursday, 11 April 2013 08:02 (1 year ago) Permalink

Ah, I gotcha...

media conglomerates are pedaling the same product (stevie), Thursday, 11 April 2013 12:22 (1 year ago) Permalink

you've come a long way, baby

goole, Thursday, 11 April 2013 17:41 (1 year ago) Permalink

should have known better than to click through the warning for that at work

relentless technosexuality (DJP), Thursday, 11 April 2013 17:44 (1 year ago) Permalink

ha yes just about every element of that url screams nsfw except for "http" and "read"

goole, Thursday, 11 April 2013 17:48 (1 year ago) Permalink

lol that page

I, rrational (mh), Thursday, 11 April 2013 18:08 (1 year ago) Permalink

tbf, the illustration of the crotch fire hose is pretty hilaious

beach situations (Austerity Ponies), Thursday, 11 April 2013 18:31 (1 year ago) Permalink

stop that pain

j., Thursday, 11 April 2013 20:22 (1 year ago) Permalink

Something about the tone of this article, in which two male economists criticize the arguments of a female treasury under secretary, immediately rubbed me the wrong way. One thing that kept jumping out at me was the use of "Ms. Miller." Would a male undersecretary be referred to as "Mr. ____" in this sort of article? I wasn't sure if maybe it was just because of the direct approach of this article (whereas a reporter speaking in a distant third person might just say "Miller")

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/04/25/the-treasurys-mistaken-view-on-too-big-to-fail/?ref=business

huun huurt 2 (Hurting 2), Thursday, 25 April 2013 13:40 (1 year ago) Permalink

Use of titles is mandatory per NYT style guide.

my father will guide me up the stairs to bed (anagram), Thursday, 25 April 2013 13:42 (1 year ago) Permalink

Well I really dislike it in any case. It sounds vaguely condescending.

huun huurt 2 (Hurting 2), Thursday, 25 April 2013 13:46 (1 year ago) Permalink

Like "Ms. Miller" doesn't make me think of a treasury undersecretary, it makes me think of a student in an econ seminar or something.

huun huurt 2 (Hurting 2), Thursday, 25 April 2013 13:46 (1 year ago) Permalink

ampersand cooper black (elmo argonaut), Thursday, 25 April 2013 13:47 (1 year ago) Permalink

Would you find it condescending if it was "Mr Miller"? Not being snarky here, just throwing it out.

xp

my father will guide me up the stairs to bed (anagram), Thursday, 25 April 2013 13:48 (1 year ago) Permalink

emil.y, Thursday, 25 April 2013 13:51 (1 year ago) Permalink

It's really awkward and distracting, but it's NYT house style.

media conglomerates are pedaling the same product (stevie), Thursday, 25 April 2013 13:52 (1 year ago) Permalink

I rather like it. It's old-fashioned and polite.

my father will guide me up the stairs to bed (anagram), Thursday, 25 April 2013 13:56 (1 year ago) Permalink

Like "Ms. Miller" doesn't make me think of a treasury undersecretary, it makes me think of a student in an econ seminar or something.

It makes me think of Bohemian Phapsody, just sayin..

Mark G, Thursday, 25 April 2013 13:57 (1 year ago) Permalink

Would you find it condescending if it was "Mr Miller"? Not being snarky here, just throwing it out.

xp

― my father will guide me up the stairs to bed (anagram), Thursday, April 25, 2013 9:48 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I would say yes, but less so.

huun huurt 2 (Hurting 2), Thursday, 25 April 2013 14:38 (1 year ago) Permalink

hurting otm that use of 'ms.' is totally condescending and sexist, you can't even tell if the broad is married or not

balls, Thursday, 25 April 2013 20:32 (1 year ago) Permalink

If you go to Wikipedia's page for American Novelists, you might notice something strange: Of the first 100 authors listed, only a small handful of them are women. You could potentially blame this on the fact that there simply are more famous male authors than there are female (a-whole-nother can of worms), but the real reasoning is much more intentional. Wikipedia editors have slowly been moving female authors to a subcategory called American Women Novelists so that the original list isn't at risk of "becoming too large."

http://jezebel.com/wikipedia-is-quietly-moving-women-off-their-american-no-481069352

Huston we got chicken lol (Phil D.), Thursday, 25 April 2013 22:15 (1 year ago) Permalink

HOLY SHIT

contenderizer, Thursday, 25 April 2013 22:19 (1 year ago) Permalink

and yeah also what contenderizer said, wtf

huun huurt 2 (Hurting 2), Thursday, 25 April 2013 22:20 (1 year ago) Permalink

wikipedia is a conspiracy of fuckheads and nobody in 2013 should be taking it seriously as a project

resulting paste of mashed cheez poops (silby), Thursday, 25 April 2013 22:24 (1 year ago) Permalink

Judging from the treatment handed out to feminists who try to correct basic facts about themselves on talk pages, Wiki is full of MRA arseholes.

karl lagerlout (suzy), Thursday, 25 April 2013 22:37 (1 year ago) Permalink

! haven't heard about that. has it been discussed here?

contenderizer, Thursday, 25 April 2013 22:42 (1 year ago) Permalink

i wanna see these juicy wikipedia talk pages

brony orlando (crüt), Thursday, 25 April 2013 22:59 (1 year ago) Permalink

No, We're Keeping The Night

goole, Friday, 26 April 2013 19:37 (1 year ago) Permalink

(sorry)

goole, Friday, 26 April 2013 19:37 (1 year ago) Permalink

grim lol

If they can't do anything about that dude and his sign (which let's be honest, if there's a code of conduct at the school I am certain that that level of aggressive speech crosses it and they are just being cowardly), one would hope his Twitter account could get him booted

Call me at **BITCOIN (DJP), Friday, 26 April 2013 19:38 (1 year ago) Permalink

calling U of A a school is excessively generous

four Marxes plus four Obamas plus four Bin Ladens (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 26 April 2013 19:40 (1 year ago) Permalink

lol

Call me at **BITCOIN (DJP), Friday, 26 April 2013 19:41 (1 year ago) Permalink

that dude would be awesome to hit against a pavement repeatedly

brb buying poppers w/my employee discount (forksclovetofu), Friday, 26 April 2013 19:58 (1 year ago) Permalink

most blogging "conferences" whether involving "mommies" or not are glorified marketing events.. Blogging is only a job for like .00001% of people who do it. That photo is o_O but I'm not really sympathetic to complaints about wanting to be taken more seriously as a blogger.

huun huurt 2 (Hurting 2), Friday, 26 April 2013 20:26 (1 year ago) Permalink

xxp Why, in the third picture of that charming gent I can see the top of his boxers and some bare midriff. What does a man deserve for such shameless public flesh- and underwear-baring? Also his mind is showing and it's not so appealing.

susuwatari teenage riot (a passing spacecadet), Friday, 26 April 2013 20:29 (1 year ago) Permalink

I mean, the tone of the WSJ piece looks a little insulting too. But let's face it, that's what these conferences really are for most attendees -- a vacation. It's like going to SXSW as an amateur musician -- it's related to your craft, but it's mostly just a good time.

huun huurt 2 (Hurting 2), Friday, 26 April 2013 20:29 (1 year ago) Permalink

Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 17h
26,000 unreported sexual assults in the military-only 238 convictions. What did these geniuses expect when they put men & women together?

'scuse me while i make the sky cum (k3vin k.), Wednesday, 8 May 2013 16:37 (1 year ago) Permalink

oh dear lord

far too much asshole flesh (DJP), Wednesday, 8 May 2013 16:37 (1 year ago) Permalink

Rolling 'this is trump' thread

ḉrut (crüt), Wednesday, 8 May 2013 16:38 (1 year ago) Permalink

Playing the trump card ^

al leong the watchtower (darraghmac), Wednesday, 8 May 2013 16:43 (1 year ago) Permalink

'To trump' is a British euphemism for farting.

karl lagerlout (suzy), Wednesday, 8 May 2013 16:51 (1 year ago) Permalink

2 weeks pass...

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/collections/special/columns/news_cut/archive/2013/05/justices_fume_over_mn_supreme.shtml

can someone read this and let me know wtf is even happening here

goole, Wednesday, 22 May 2013 19:25 (1 year ago) Permalink

it seems like the majority opinion is "stfu district court and do yr fukkin job" and the minority opinion is "omg women, I am so sorry the majority is too chickenshit to make a decision on your case"

they are either militarists (ugh) or kangaroos (?) (DJP), Wednesday, 22 May 2013 19:31 (1 year ago) Permalink

yeah, i see. "lol".

goole, Wednesday, 22 May 2013 19:45 (1 year ago) Permalink

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p019qtxp

rolling "fuck you john humphreys" thread

nagl dude dude dude (ledge), Thursday, 30 May 2013 11:13 (1 year ago) Permalink

This was stunning. Have not heard use of word 'feminisation' so often within 5 minutes. Gf was spitting mad, it was terrible, and Humphreys mainly to blame. Do we have a 'Is Today worse than it used to be?' thread? Because it seems to be.

media conglomerates are pedaling the same product (stevie), Thursday, 30 May 2013 11:33 (1 year ago) Permalink

Laurie Penny could've been a bit less rambling, she might not have been talked over so much. But at least she gets in a decent fairly snappy final point re: feminism not just being about liberating women.

nagl dude dude dude (ledge), Thursday, 30 May 2013 11:40 (1 year ago) Permalink

She was really good on 10 O'Clock Live last night and was pretty much recycling what was said there.

I've been told that Humphrys is incredibly rude to female underlings and those young women who might need something professional from him, but who are not colleagues.

on the sidelines dishing out sass (suzy), Thursday, 30 May 2013 11:42 (1 year ago) Permalink

I'm not sure if this is the correct thread, but this article about a man trying to break his ogling habit struck me as deeply weird.

Moodles, Thursday, 30 May 2013 14:25 (1 year ago) Permalink

it's being discussed on the marc loi facebook feminist thread

Eyeball Kicks, Thursday, 30 May 2013 14:28 (1 year ago) Permalink

which thread is that?

Moodles, Thursday, 30 May 2013 14:36 (1 year ago) Permalink

it's the marc loi facebook feminist thread

Eyeball Kicks, Thursday, 30 May 2013 14:38 (1 year ago) Permalink

ah ok, I see it now, didn't know which board it was on

Moodles, Thursday, 30 May 2013 14:39 (1 year ago) Permalink

i do think that article is sexist though, because it presupposes a contradiction between seeing someone as sexy and seeing someone as an intelligent, autonomous person, which is a deeply weird thing to think.

the strange and important sound of the synthesizer (Treeship), Thursday, 30 May 2013 14:41 (1 year ago) Permalink

He's trying to police himself for sexist behavior, but his "cure" is even more problematic.

Moodles, Thursday, 30 May 2013 14:52 (1 year ago) Permalink

IDK none of it struck me as too weird, but then I did grow up Mormon with the "just imagine Jesus" advice ruining my own early sex life. I think 'try not to have a constant pornographic internal movie projector about every woman you come in contact with' may be a reasonable goal (or clumsy first step?) if you are trying to see all women as people. Writing about it is kind of goofy but everyone's a fucking navel-gazer these days, even if the topic isn't usually gazing at others' navels.

I wish every slot machine had EAT THE RICH printed on it (Crabbits), Thursday, 30 May 2013 17:27 (1 year ago) Permalink

Like just thinking about my interactions with random men throughout the day, I never walk away thinking, "I hope that guy thought I was witty and kind AND that he wants me to choke on his cock," like really just the former would be ideal. I wouldn't think a guy was sexist if he skipped the second part! (NB I defs don't spend my days trying to fill in others' internal monologues, esp re: me.)

I wish every slot machine had EAT THE RICH printed on it (Crabbits), Thursday, 30 May 2013 17:31 (1 year ago) Permalink

haha

I thought it was weird that he was talking about how tormented he felt about his idle sex fantasies at the beginning of the piece, to the point where he calls a sex addict hotline, and then finishes up by going to a pool full of bikini-clad coeds and a mostly female yoga class. It was kind of like "I think I might be an alcoholic; I'd better drink these beers to make sure."

they are either militarists (ugh) or kangaroos (?) (DJP), Thursday, 30 May 2013 17:35 (1 year ago) Permalink

i know it takes all kinds in life, but, i feel like a dude who calls himself 'beta' anything has internalized feminism in kind of an odd way

mostly this dude just seems like a dullard

goole, Thursday, 30 May 2013 17:57 (1 year ago) Permalink

xpost to crabbits. hm, i wasn't thinking that his passing fantasies were that explicit. but i guess maybe that was implied by his use of the word "pornographic". i guess i don't know what goes on in his head, and i can agree that certain thoughts -- if they become obsessive, and overwhelm normal functioning -- could be an issue. he seemed to be describing just like, being struck by the hotness of various women around him.

the strange and important sound of the synthesizer (Treeship), Thursday, 30 May 2013 18:04 (1 year ago) Permalink

When I was in Yeshiva in high school (~10-12th grade) I had a close friend who "struggled" w/ masturbation and used to consult with one of the Rabbis privately to get inspiration/strength to break the habit. Later he had a sexual relationship with another student when they shared a two-person dorm room together. Afaik that was the event that created the policy that the Yeshiva wouldn't put 2 students in the same dorm room alone (only 1, or 3 or more).

Mordy , Thursday, 30 May 2013 18:07 (1 year ago) Permalink

that sounds so humiliating, to have rabbis and classmates know about one's masturbation habits.

the strange and important sound of the synthesizer (Treeship), Thursday, 30 May 2013 18:09 (1 year ago) Permalink

It's hard to be discrete about masturbation in a dorm room situation.

Mordy , Thursday, 30 May 2013 18:13 (1 year ago) Permalink

"Women's bodies thirst for men's words!" "Women's bodies thirst for men's words!" "Women's bodies thirst for men's words!" "Women's bodies thirst for men's words!" "Women's bodies thirst for men's words!" "Women's bodies thirst for men's words!" "Women's bodies thirst for men's words!" "Women's bodies thirst for men's words!" "Women's bodies thirst for men's words!" "Women's bodies thirst for men's words!" "Women's bodies thirst for men's words!" "Women's bodies thirst for men's words!" "Women's bodies thirst for men's words!" "Women's bodies thirst for men's words!" "Women's bodies thirst for men's words!" "Women's bodies thirst for men's words!" "Women's bodies thirst for men's words!" "Women's bodies thirst for men's words!" "Women's bodies thirst for men's words!" "Women's bodies thirst for men's words!" "Women's bodies thirst for men's words!" "Women's bodies thirst for men's words!" "Women's bodies thirst for men's words!"

kill everyone

crüt, Thursday, 30 May 2013 18:18 (1 year ago) Permalink

yeah this show seems insanely sexist and horrible.

the strange and important sound of the synthesizer (Treeship), Thursday, 30 May 2013 18:20 (1 year ago) Permalink

Mordy , Thursday, 30 May 2013 18:23 (1 year ago) Permalink

Last week during a segment on breastfeeding, the host of the Dutch Saturday night show, Langs de Leeuw, suggested he would like to try breast milk.

An audience member offered him some milk she had expressed but host Paul de Leeuw told her he would rather take it from its source and suckled both her breasts on live TV.

what the fucking fuck

they are either militarists (ugh) or kangaroos (?) (DJP), Thursday, 30 May 2013 18:26 (1 year ago) Permalink

whaaat

set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 30 May 2013 18:32 (1 year ago) Permalink

that's not real

walk in the room they throwin Sade left to right (Stevie D(eux)), Thursday, 30 May 2013 19:55 (1 year ago) Permalink

oh wow, it is real

walk in the room they throwin Sade left to right (Stevie D(eux)), Thursday, 30 May 2013 20:00 (1 year ago) Permalink

32.
Phill
7 Hours ago

I honestly don't see how this can be taken as sexist.

Yes, men are looking at women's bodies but a man's brain is wired to marvel in the delicate shapes and details of a woman. At no point is anyone saying that these woman are only good to be gawked at, in fact it's a show dedicated to indulging the desire to look without rudely staring.

Where's the harm in that?

media conglomerates are pedaling the same product (stevie), Thursday, 30 May 2013 20:04 (1 year ago) Permalink

it's just how a man's brain is wired

media conglomerates are pedaling the same product (stevie), Thursday, 30 May 2013 20:05 (1 year ago) Permalink

if they could get their brains rewired y'know it'd be different but they can't

media conglomerates are pedaling the same product (stevie), Thursday, 30 May 2013 20:05 (1 year ago) Permalink

so sad, all the ladies yell at the poor men and the men can't even help it it's just how they are ;_;

walk in the room they throwin Sade left to right (Stevie D(eux)), Thursday, 30 May 2013 20:08 (1 year ago) Permalink

it's wiring. wiring is very tricky.

media conglomerates are pedaling the same product (stevie), Thursday, 30 May 2013 20:08 (1 year ago) Permalink

how else are they going to appreciate all the delicate shapes and details

⚓ (elmo argonaut), Thursday, 30 May 2013 20:12 (1 year ago) Permalink

one big wire

set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 30 May 2013 20:14 (1 year ago) Permalink

daub daub

i didn't even give much of a fuck that you were mod (forksclovetofu), Friday, 31 May 2013 05:04 (1 year ago) Permalink

This is absolutely maddening and makes me want to switch genders out of sheer embarrassment: http://jezebel.com/if-comedy-has-no-lady-problem-why-am-i-getting-so-many-511214385

hashtag sizzler (Phil D.), Tuesday, 4 June 2013 21:53 (1 year ago) Permalink

Re: the story about the Dutch talk show host and the breast milk, Paul de Leeuw is apparently a) very openly gay and b) kind of a creep:

During a 2008 episode of Mooi! Weer De Leeuw, a vegan streaker wanting to draw attention to animal suffering managed to enter the sound stage. His body was covered in slogans such as "Stop animal suffering" and "Meat is murder". De Leeuw stopped security from escorting him from the stage in order to talk with him. De Leeuw proceeded to pull the man onto his lap and started poking at his underwear, insisting on "seeing his meat". As the man stood up, De Leeuw pulled down and eventually ripped off his underwear, saying, "then you must properly streak; off with those briefs."
The streaker later filed a police report, although the molestation charges have since been dropped. Some parents were shocked by the incident as the show was targeted at families as well.[2][3]

hashtag sizzler (Phil D.), Tuesday, 4 June 2013 21:56 (1 year ago) Permalink

Let me be clear: I don't believe that previously non-Jihad mosque members are going to take to the streets in a terror mob after hearing one anti-Western sermon. That's an absurd and insulting mischaracterization. But I do believe that Islam's current permissiveness around cavalier, cruel, victim-targeting fundamentalist theologies contributes to (that's contributes—not causes) a culture of young men who don't understand what it means to take this stuff seriously.

Mordy , Tuesday, 4 June 2013 21:57 (1 year ago) Permalink

so "the West" is an analogous victim to "women"...

i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 4 June 2013 21:59 (1 year ago) Permalink

Good move derailing the sexism thread to your pet topic, Mordy, should go well, A+++++ would read again.

hashtag sizzler (Phil D.), Tuesday, 4 June 2013 22:01 (1 year ago) Permalink

It's not a derail. I'm questioning a prevalent assumption of how 'cultures' work.

Mordy , Tuesday, 4 June 2013 22:02 (1 year ago) Permalink

can you make your "questioning" a little more direct and less muddled please?

i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 4 June 2013 22:03 (1 year ago) Permalink

i don't believe there is any connection between jim norton or anthony jeselnik making jokes about rape and its occurrence in the population.

Mordy , Tuesday, 4 June 2013 22:04 (1 year ago) Permalink

I don't believe there is any connection between UK newspapers publishing anti-Semitic cartoons and its occurrence in the population.

hashtag sizzler (Phil D.), Tuesday, 4 June 2013 22:05 (1 year ago) Permalink

Also nobody is claiming a connection between rape jokes and the prevalence of rape anyway so

hashtag sizzler (Phil D.), Tuesday, 4 June 2013 22:06 (1 year ago) Permalink

isn't that the essential claim of the 'rape culture' argument that west is making?

Mordy , Tuesday, 4 June 2013 22:07 (1 year ago) Permalink

Let me be clear: I don't believe that previously non-raping audience members are going to take to the streets in a rape mob after hearing one rape joke. That's an absurd and insulting mischaracterization. But I do believe that comedy's current permissiveness around cavalier, cruel, victim-targeting rape jokes contributes to (that's contributes—not causes) a culture of young men who don't understand what it means to take this stuff seriously.

I'm not saying. I'm just saying.

Mordy , Tuesday, 4 June 2013 22:07 (1 year ago) Permalink

I don't see where in that paragraph it says "which leads to an x% increase in the number of rapes"

i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 4 June 2013 22:08 (1 year ago) Permalink

Yeah that's not at all the claim she's making.

hashtag sizzler (Phil D.), Tuesday, 4 June 2013 22:10 (1 year ago) Permalink

Essential or otherwise.

hashtag sizzler (Phil D.), Tuesday, 4 June 2013 22:10 (1 year ago) Permalink

even if that's an argument you believe in mordy, you do understand you're defending the guys telling rape jokes for money right?

i didn't even give much of a fuck that you were mod (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 4 June 2013 22:13 (1 year ago) Permalink

He's well aware.

...also i'm awesome (Nicole), Tuesday, 4 June 2013 22:14 (1 year ago) Permalink

Also, while it's conceivable, I suppose, that there could be a rape joke that doesn't actually express hostility toward women, most rape jokes seem to do so in practice. It's sort of like how if a comedian makes a joke about black people that portrays them as hateful and subhuman, the defense that it's "just a joke" doesn't really pass muster, because the "joke" expresses a real, hostile feeling about black people.

i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 4 June 2013 22:17 (1 year ago) Permalink

Like some jokes, in spite of being jokes, sort of require the audience to agree on a certain pretext in order to see the "humor," e.g. that black people are an unwelcome presence, or that women deserve punishment (if not literal rape) for behaving in a way that seems above their station in life.

i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 4 June 2013 22:19 (1 year ago) Permalink

louis and carlin have pulled it off but yeah, it's not like a red badge of courage or something. and the comedy central kids being discussed here don't manage to pull this shit off with any panache period

i didn't even give much of a fuck that you were mod (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 4 June 2013 22:19 (1 year ago) Permalink

I don't think there's an across-the-board rule re: rape as subject matter. as Oscar Wilde might say, there are good/funny/well-constructed jokes about rape and there are bad/unfunny/poorly-constructed jokes about rape and that is all. Jokes where an innocent victim is the punchline are, generally speaking, not funny, and I think West is OTM about how they function in relation to the larger culture.

Mr. Scarf Ace is Back (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 4 June 2013 22:22 (1 year ago) Permalink

I think a good rule of thumb for "funny" rape jokes might be to ask yourself "Am I Louis C.K.?"

If the answer is no, better not to attempt.

i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 4 June 2013 22:23 (1 year ago) Permalink

louis has done rape jokes as bad as anyone else

ty based gay dead computer god (zachlyon), Tuesday, 4 June 2013 22:24 (1 year ago) Permalink

fair enough -- I haven't even heard them, was just assuming they would be better

i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 4 June 2013 22:24 (1 year ago) Permalink

and god nothing in the world is more deserving of eye-rolls than boys club comedians talking about the "purity" of comedy and shit, barf barf barf

ty based gay dead computer god (zachlyon), Tuesday, 4 June 2013 22:25 (1 year ago) Permalink

the only good rape joke(s) I can recall are Rodney Dangerfield's and the Kids in the Hall's "Hitler Boinks a Donkey" (the latter not really relevant perhaps)

Mr. Scarf Ace is Back (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 4 June 2013 22:26 (1 year ago) Permalink

The purity of some of the biggest losers on earth expressing their anger at women in front of an audience

i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 4 June 2013 22:29 (1 year ago) Permalink

ugh at the screencaptured comments
ugh at humanity
ugh

susuwatari teenage riot (a passing spacecadet), Tuesday, 4 June 2013 22:31 (1 year ago) Permalink

i thought that lindy west's previous piece on this stuff was v. well put together plus extremely funny: http://jezebel.com/5925186/how-to-make-a-rape-joke

it also articulates where she's coming from better than the later piece, which is not on what she said/thinks about these sorts of jokes so much as the horrifying response she's gotten for saying/thinking such stuff. (which response, in turn, would be justified by those making it as 'jokes, bro'.)

stefon taylor swiftboat (s.clover), Wednesday, 5 June 2013 13:59 (1 year ago) Permalink

I was just going to post this similar piece. Like K@73 H@rd1ng says, I think it's not that all jokes involving rape are verboten, it's that you should consider who is the butt of the joke.

I especially like this

10. Dane Cook, you guys. Dane Motherfucking Cook can construct a funny rape joke. This means no one else, anywhere, ever, has an excuse to screw this up.

Je55e, Wednesday, 5 June 2013 14:17 (1 year ago) Permalink

I don't believe there is any connection between UK newspapers publishing anti-Semitic cartoons and its occurrence in the population.

Which newspaper was this?

Bees Against Racism (Tom D.), Wednesday, 5 June 2013 14:19 (1 year ago) Permalink

wow, fuck daniel tosh

in fact

I

Hope

He

Gets

R

A

P

I

D

L

Y

B

O

O

O

E

D

i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 5 June 2013 14:22 (1 year ago) Permalink

xp the Sunday Times. Start here and read down.

hashtag sizzler (Phil D.), Wednesday, 5 June 2013 14:25 (1 year ago) Permalink

But it's OK because it has no effect on the culture.

hashtag sizzler (Phil D.), Wednesday, 5 June 2013 14:26 (1 year ago) Permalink

That's the right wing Rupert Murdoch owned press for you

Bees Against Racism (Tom D.), Wednesday, 5 June 2013 14:28 (1 year ago) Permalink

/I don't believe there is any connection between UK newspapers publishing anti-Semitic cartoons and its occurrence in the population./

Which newspaper was this?

Steve bell had one this year iirc?

caek, Wednesday, 5 June 2013 17:19 (1 year ago) Permalink

To call Steve Bell evil implies a clarity of purpose I do not want to attribute to anyone involved.

Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 5 June 2013 17:21 (1 year ago) Permalink

This story has me absolutely livid with rage. It's everything wrong with Texas, gun culture, misogyny, the dangers of sex work and a dozen other things all in one handy package.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local_news/article/Jury-acquits-escort-shooter-4581027.php

hashtag sizzler (Phil D.), Thursday, 6 June 2013 22:10 (1 year ago) Permalink

What the fuck?! That's astonishing.

хуто-хуторянка (ShariVari), Thursday, 6 June 2013 22:18 (1 year ago) Permalink

wtf

set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 6 June 2013 22:19 (1 year ago) Permalink

ugh, that story makes me feel physically sick.

Treeship, Thursday, 6 June 2013 22:20 (1 year ago) Permalink

one hundred and fifty dollars is justification for taking her LIFE?

get the fuck outta here

set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 6 June 2013 22:20 (1 year ago) Permalink

even if it's a million dollars, what. the. fuck. money is an abstraction, it's not real the way human lives are real. obviously the jury didn't give a shit about this poor woman because she was a prostitute. fuck america.

Treeship, Thursday, 6 June 2013 22:21 (1 year ago) Permalink

There must be scope for appeal, surely? I can't imagine there is any other country in the world with a legal code where you could walk away from doing that.

хуто-хуторянка (ShariVari), Thursday, 6 June 2013 22:22 (1 year ago) Permalink

Do Texas next, Bugs!

polyphonic, Thursday, 6 June 2013 22:22 (1 year ago) Permalink

that still won't help the people who are forced to live there.

Treeship, Thursday, 6 June 2013 22:23 (1 year ago) Permalink

I read about this this morning and I remain perplexed that the jury would accept that he was recovering his 'property' when his misunderstanding about the escort's services would nonetheless have been illegal.

Lectures of Pelé (Michael White), Thursday, 6 June 2013 22:26 (1 year ago) Permalink

I would love to see the transcript of this trial. Was it ever addressed that this murdering fuck, if he was genuinely trying to buy sex, was engaged in a crime? And that killing someone during the commission of a crime (or causing injuries to which they later succumb) is in fact a felony?

hashtag sizzler (Phil D.), Thursday, 6 June 2013 22:26 (1 year ago) Permalink

xp

hashtag sizzler (Phil D.), Thursday, 6 June 2013 22:26 (1 year ago) Permalink

i assume we are going to hear more about this case. no way this doesn't become a national story.

Treeship, Thursday, 6 June 2013 22:28 (1 year ago) Permalink

my wife was telling me about this! wtf bexar county sheeeeeit

one if by lamp, two if by deeznuts (m bison), Friday, 7 June 2013 02:28 (1 year ago) Permalink

Someone on jez pointed out that this woman was in fact killed for NOT providing sex for money. So basically for acting according to law.

lets just remember to blame the patriarchy for (in orbit), Friday, 7 June 2013 02:38 (1 year ago) Permalink

I have a vague impression that escort services are allowed to exist because they ostensibly only provide social company. I'm pretty sure everyone knows that's not all they offer, but she was within the bounds of her job description in that case.

lets just remember to blame the patriarchy for (in orbit), Friday, 7 June 2013 02:41 (1 year ago) Permalink

May as well put this here (being asked to cover up isn't sexist, but the content is re sexism)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22875243

kinder, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 17:35 (1 year ago) Permalink

what the fuuuuuuck

ttyih boi (crüt), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:44 (1 year ago) Permalink

I don't mean to be the dude who always asks "why do people read Vice" but...

they are either militarists (ugh) or kangaroos (?) (DJP), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:47 (1 year ago) Permalink

Be that dude.

If only they'd balanced it up with a "male writer about to drink himself to death" fashion spread.

Bees Against Racism (Tom D.), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:49 (1 year ago) Permalink