marketing of masculinity

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed

unicorn strapped with a unabomb (deej), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 01:03 (4 years ago) Permalink

fucking hell

sleeve, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 01:08 (4 years ago) Permalink

what clothing company is that for?

sleeve, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 01:09 (4 years ago) Permalink

unified theory of objectionable thoughts (latebloomer), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 01:10 (4 years ago) Permalink

that commercial : /

omar little, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 01:10 (4 years ago) Permalink

5 seconds after it ends a bunch of russian mob dudes come in blazing

omar little, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 01:12 (4 years ago) Permalink

looool

unified theory of objectionable thoughts (latebloomer), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 01:14 (4 years ago) Permalink

That ad makes me want to cut off my own dick.

uninspired girls rejoice!!! (Hoot Smalley), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 01:15 (4 years ago) Permalink

THERE WAS A TIME WHEN

Matt P, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 01:15 (4 years ago) Permalink

* Men
* Women
* Fit Guide
* Man-ifesto

unicorn strapped with a unabomb (deej), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 01:16 (4 years ago) Permalink

dos equis most interesting man commercials to thread

xp btw Hoot thinking that thought makes you cRaZy

being being kiss-ass fake nice (gbx), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 01:16 (4 years ago) Permalink

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh thank you for bringing this to my attention

102. LJ: British. 5. (acoleuthic), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 01:17 (4 years ago) Permalink

dos equis ads are at least pretty tongue-in-cheek

omar little, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 01:17 (4 years ago) Permalink

http://contexts.org/socimages/tag/gender-masculinity/

harbl, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 01:19 (4 years ago) Permalink

Holding Doors Open For Women

uninspired girls rejoice!!! (Hoot Smalley), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 01:20 (4 years ago) Permalink

being a man is about being a good human being imo

Matt P, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 01:21 (4 years ago) Permalink

maybe dockers will help u

Matt P, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 01:21 (4 years ago) Permalink

this makes me think of some of the things Susan Faludi talks about in her book Stiffed, which is like ten years old now, about how men were the next great unexploited fashion/beauty market.

sleeve, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 01:22 (4 years ago) Permalink

Aren't Dockers for middle-aged fat-asses?

uninspired girls rejoice!!! (Hoot Smalley), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 01:22 (4 years ago) Permalink

idk but the point is to feel cool when you buy them

sleeve, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 01:26 (4 years ago) Permalink

Aren't Dockers for middle-aged fat-asses?

― uninspired girls rejoice!!! (Hoot Smalley), Tuesday, December 8, 2009 7:22 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

u are the target audience

unicorn strapped with a unabomb (deej), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 01:33 (4 years ago) Permalink

"actually -- little known historical fact that, when men were men, prior to disco, khakis were only worny by the ruggedest of bros"

unicorn strapped with a unabomb (deej), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 01:33 (4 years ago) Permalink

Virtually the same style:

Cosmic Ugg (S-), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 01:35 (4 years ago) Permalink

this is the point at which everybody who made "ironic" lol sexism joaks in the 90s & 00s now has to pay for it by gouging their eyes out and dancing on them

ow my eyes

a dimension that can only be accessed through self-immolation (contenderizer), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 02:02 (4 years ago) Permalink

thank god i was an adolescent and actually sexist, whew

being being kiss-ass fake nice (gbx), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 02:04 (4 years ago) Permalink

that khakis ad is so preposterous i cannot imagine taking it srsly on any level

call all destroyer, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 02:04 (4 years ago) Permalink

the real question it poses--when will derisive "latte" comments become passe?

call all destroyer, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 02:04 (4 years ago) Permalink

when will it be ok for men to eat salad again? how do you guys live on these all steak diets

harbl, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 02:06 (4 years ago) Permalink

just had my 17th heart attack tbh

call all destroyer, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 02:07 (4 years ago) Permalink

i had a (bison) steak AND a salad for dinner tonight i will have you know

being being kiss-ass fake nice (gbx), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 02:08 (4 years ago) Permalink

so you are like 50% man now

call all destroyer, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 02:10 (4 years ago) Permalink

killed a man, too

being being kiss-ass fake nice (gbx), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 02:10 (4 years ago) Permalink

This does remind me of a thread i wanted to start, about how the only time I ever use the phrase "men" or "women" seems to involve marketing pitches for Boomers, or gay bars. It's like "Magazine for Men" or "Bars for Men" I automatically equate to "gay-targeted". I mean, almost all of the males I ever encountered above the age of 18 fall into the category of "dudes," "guys", "fellas", "bros", or "homies".

I worked with a guy who talked about how they'd go on a "men's retreat" every year, which was pretty much just a chance to head out to the Oregon deserts and bro down with buddies with dune buggies.

kingfish, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 02:10 (4 years ago) Permalink

stole his salad

being being kiss-ass fake nice (gbx), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 02:10 (4 years ago) Permalink

wait so is driving dune buggies in the OR desert w/yr "bros" a gay thing????

8[

being being kiss-ass fake nice (gbx), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 02:11 (4 years ago) Permalink

here's to young white dudes and maybe firefighters can earn their way in maybe

unforgivable Jaqness (tremendoid), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 02:13 (4 years ago) Permalink

here's to assholes

omar little, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 02:14 (4 years ago) Permalink

lol what is that music?

Dan S, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 02:16 (4 years ago) Permalink

gbx, what kind of fork did you eat with?

uninspired girls rejoice!!! (Hoot Smalley), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 02:18 (4 years ago) Permalink

if its plastic you're down to 45% man

call all destroyer, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 02:21 (4 years ago) Permalink

being a man is about being a good human being imo

Psshaww I bet you enjoy eating salads

... with a PLASTIC FORK no doubt!

lukevalentine, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 02:24 (4 years ago) Permalink

the real question it poses--when will derisive "latte" comments become passe?

― call all destroyer, Tuesday, December 8, 2009 6:04 PM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark

i guess when derisive salad and disco comments become passe. which if judging by the durability of hairy lesbian comments = never.

a dimension that can only be accessed through self-immolation (contenderizer), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 02:24 (4 years ago) Permalink

ha lol everyone already made that joke i see

xp

lukevalentine, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 02:25 (4 years ago) Permalink

wait so is driving dune buggies in the OR desert w/yr "bros" a gay thing????

No, it's a perfectly acceptable bros thing.

kingfish, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 02:25 (4 years ago) Permalink

that ad at the top is a take-you-aside-and-be-serious version of a bad standup routine

omar little, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 02:26 (4 years ago) Permalink

Maybe you're not supposed to use utensils at all.

uninspired girls rejoice!!! (Hoot Smalley), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 02:27 (4 years ago) Permalink

this IS desert season btw, no better time to throw a few cases of natty ice in the F-150, hook up the dirtbikes and roll out to glamis or gordon's well and fuckin BRO. DOWN. BRODER.

iiiijjjj, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 02:27 (4 years ago) Permalink

that sounds awesome but i guess i'm not invited

harbl, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 02:28 (4 years ago) Permalink

bro if you're heading out pick up some burreets or a double-double for the noshage

iiiijjjj, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 02:28 (4 years ago) Permalink

It's not the activity I laughed at, it's the description of it as their "Man's Retreat"

kingfish, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 02:29 (4 years ago) Permalink

i had a (bison) steak AND a salad for dinner tonight i will have you know

― being being kiss-ass fake nice (gbx), Tuesday, December 8, 2009 8:08 PM (20 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

you will pay for your crimes against bison btw

it's like 10,000 goons when all you need is a trife (m bison), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 02:31 (4 years ago) Permalink

yeah i mean ultimately "males" are going to want to get together every so often and do dumb shit. there will probably never be a good name for this.

call all destroyer, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 02:32 (4 years ago) Permalink

lol i almost made a "u ate ilx user m bison joke!" but too meta. glad he is here tho

call all destroyer, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 02:32 (4 years ago) Permalink

f-you dockers, I'm never wearing pants again

big darn deal (Z S), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 02:33 (4 years ago) Permalink

tbf probably the worst dudes are ppl that wear kilts just like, on the street in the city or whatever

call all destroyer, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 02:34 (4 years ago) Permalink

yeah i mean ultimately "males" are going to want to get together every so often and do dumb shit. there will probably never be a good name for this.

politics?

lukevalentine, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 02:34 (4 years ago) Permalink

apparently suits and beards are the new masculinity

omar little, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 02:35 (4 years ago) Permalink

new punchline:

ILM?

unicorn strapped with a unabomb (deej), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 02:35 (4 years ago) Permalink

lulz yeah

lukevalentine, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 02:36 (4 years ago) Permalink

not really bothered by kilts, girls are allowed to walk around in skirts so y not
probably wouldn't be friends with a kilter though

harbl, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 02:36 (4 years ago) Permalink

just don't wear the suit while walking to work

bnw, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 02:37 (4 years ago) Permalink

probably wouldn't be friends with a kilter though

right, exactly

call all destroyer, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 02:38 (4 years ago) Permalink

http://www.goodmenbook.org/thebook.php

this thing is getting a lot of play atm and from an interview i heard w/ the filmmaker/compiler of stories it promises not to dovetail with most of the reductive trad bs above even though the trailer makes it seem like yes it will

unforgivable Jaqness (tremendoid), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 05:16 (4 years ago) Permalink

i mean for a lot of western men a large part of 'what is it to be a man?' is going to be a reaction to the image/'era' these ads are advancing but even within that orbit there's more interesting questions than whether to wear brut or aramis, how to make a proper toast etc

unforgivable Jaqness (tremendoid), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 05:21 (4 years ago) Permalink

I think at times the "be a MAN" schtick is kind of useful as a stand-in for "be an ADULT," -- something that's kind of useful in an era of prolonged childhood. I mean it's really fucking lame when it gets used as an excuse for retrograde attitudes or GQ-type marketing bullshit - where being a man is equated to being some kind of all around great guy with a perfect smile and a cool haircut.

But still, sometimes I find it helpful to say to myself "Be a man. Stop whining and pick yourself up," etc. even if that has hints of retrograde gender attitudes.

Bay-L.A. Bar Talk (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 05:28 (4 years ago) Permalink

sorry, that was a little redundant

Bay-L.A. Bar Talk (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 05:28 (4 years ago) Permalink

and then u put on yr dockers

ice cr?m, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 05:35 (4 years ago) Permalink

REAL MEN LOVE JESUS

lukevalentine, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 05:43 (4 years ago) Permalink

i am so completely blown away by this advertisement that i'm sort of speechless. we've got sexism, heterosexism, classism, reproductive futurism...

thank god i don't buy magazines and don't watch television. think i'd shoot myself.

And now my dick is where? Oh, this is too rich (the table is the table), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 05:47 (4 years ago) Permalink

Also Dockers mostly just make me think of soft-bellied midwestern IT guys.

Bay-L.A. Bar Talk (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 05:54 (4 years ago) Permalink

i also think the "be a man" thing can have value, cuz i think of myself as a man, as a male being. it's part of my identity, and not just physiologically. by that i mean it helps constitute my sense of self. and "to be a man", in my mind, is behave and think in a responsible, compassionate, thoughtful and grown-up manner. in other words, as a positive member of the group i see myself as belonging to. in thinking this way, i don't think i'm in any way associating or aligning myself with retrograde/sexist/paternalist attitudes.

further, though i'm not a parent, i think "be a man" attaches itself to that idea-set. to be a man in this sense is to be a fit parent, partner and member of society. and i think that can be a good thing.

ads are still totally revolting

a dimension that can only be accessed through self-immolation (contenderizer), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 06:05 (4 years ago) Permalink

to me these ads are just funny

unicorn strapped with a unabomb (deej), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 07:01 (4 years ago) Permalink

i mean, i guess offensive in some obvious ways as well, but they're so transparent

unicorn strapped with a unabomb (deej), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 07:01 (4 years ago) Permalink

i'm not revolted by the sexism & vague homophobia, i'm revolted by the dumb dumb ass

a dimension that can only be accessed through self-immolation (contenderizer), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 07:08 (4 years ago) Permalink

cuz yeah, it's more like mock sexism anyway

but the DUMB DUMB ASS

a dimension that can only be accessed through self-immolation (contenderizer), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 07:09 (4 years ago) Permalink

it's slightly less offensive because it's so obviously aimed at guys that are actually pretty insecure, enough so in fact that they will buy a certain brand of khakis to help themselves feel secure in their manhood I guess

also easier to swallow the stupidity of it because of everyone's general reaction here, if yall had responded to this ad by saying "HELL YEAH I'M SICK OF THIS SALAD EATING QUEERS" then I would have been more put off / bewildered / saddened

lukevalentine, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 07:14 (4 years ago) Permalink

thank god i don't buy magazines and don't watch television. think i'd shoot myself.

― And now my dick is where? Oh, this is too rich (the table is the table), Tuesday, December 8, 2009 9:47 PM Bookmark

LA CANCION MAS PRETENCIOSA DEL MUNDO... (The Reverend), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 11:04 (4 years ago) Permalink

That ad makes me want to cut off my own dick.

Karen Tregaskin, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 11:05 (4 years ago) Permalink

So anyway, these discos where men were stripped of their khakis sound pretty fun

Dark, promiscuous five-year-old (DJ Mencap), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 11:36 (4 years ago) Permalink

i'm all for this sort of thing, really ^^^^^^

Karen Tregaskin, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 11:39 (4 years ago) Permalink


Nuyorican oatmeal (jaymc), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 13:20 (4 years ago) Permalink

Nuyorican oatmeal (jaymc), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 13:21 (4 years ago) Permalink

I...what?

MPx4A, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 13:32 (4 years ago) Permalink

You don't order it tall, venti, or mocha, like your old lady does.

kingkongvsgodzilla, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 13:34 (4 years ago) Permalink

haha i love that starbucks seems to be the #1 foil in these ads

max, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 13:37 (4 years ago) Permalink

the #1 threat to american masculinity... is coffee from seattle

max, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 13:37 (4 years ago) Permalink

o i see you have a 'tall' coffee there... *derisive snort*

max, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 13:37 (4 years ago) Permalink

surely ordering a small coffee would make you a small-bladdered commie pinko anyway though

MPx4A, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 13:38 (4 years ago) Permalink

in my america coffee is weak, feminine and european

max, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 13:42 (4 years ago) Permalink

in my america, when you want to wake up, you shoot someone, and if no ones around, you shoot yourself

max, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 13:43 (4 years ago) Permalink

btw the best part of the dockers ad is the "shop women" punchline

max, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 13:44 (4 years ago) Permalink

You don't order it tall, venti, or mocha, like your old lady does a homo.

james cameron gargameled my boner for life (Pancakes Hackman), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 13:45 (4 years ago) Permalink

As if Italian words for coffee aren't masculine.

idk but the point is to feel cool when you buy them

The marketing idea behind Dockers, which made Levi's hundreds of millions of dollars and is probably responsible for the casual-izing of American offices, wasn't about cool or sexy; it was about someone saying "nice pants" and letting your head be full of decisions about stuff more important than clothes. Long article from '97 on how they did it.

Action Orientation (Eazy), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 13:47 (4 years ago) Permalink

Dockers commercial at 1:00.

Action Orientation (Eazy), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 13:51 (4 years ago) Permalink

From Gladwell's article linked above:

The one ad in the "Nice Pants" campaign which isn't like the Bugle Boy spots is called "Motorcycle." In it a nice young man happens upon a gleaming Harley on a dark back street of what looks like downtown Manhattan. He strokes the seat and then, unable to contain himself, climbs aboard the bike and bounces up and down, showing off his Dockers (the "product shot") but accidentally breaking a mirror on the handlebar. He looks up. The Harley's owner-a huge, leather-clad biker-is looking down at him. The biker glowers, looking him up and down, and says, "Nice pants." Last shot: the biker rides away, leaving the guy standing on the sidewalk in just his underwear.

What's surprising about this ad is that, unlike "Vive la France" and "Subway Love," it does seem to cross the boundaries of acceptable sex talk. The rules of guy advertising so carefully observed in those spots-the fact that the hero has to be naïve, that he can't be too good-looking, that he can't get the girl, and that he can't be told anything stronger than "Nice pants"-are all, in some sense, reactions to the male fear of appearing too concerned with fashion, of being too pretty, of not being masculine. But what is "Motorcycle"? It's an ad about a sweet-looking guy down in the Village somewhere who loses his pants to a butch-looking biker in leather. "I got so much feedback at the time of 'Well, God, that's kind of gay, don't you think?' " Robert Hanson said. "People were saying, 'This buff guy comes along and he rides off with the guy's pants. I mean, what the hell were they doing?' It came from so many different people within the industry. It came from some of our most conservative retailers. But do you know what? If you put these three spots up-'Vive la France,' 'Subway Love,' and 'Motorcycle'-which one do you think men will talk about ad nauseam? 'Motorcycle.' It's No. 1. It's because he's really cool. He's in a really cool environment, and it's every guy's fantasy to have a really cool, tricked-out fancy motorcycle."

Hanson paused, as if he recognized that what he was saying was quite sensitive. He didn't want to say that men failed to pick up the gay implications of the ad because they're stupid, because they aren't stupid. And he didn't want to sound condescending, because Dockers didn't build a six-hundred-million-dollar business in five years by sounding condescending. All he was trying to do was point out the fundamental exegetical error in calling this a gay ad, because the only way for a Dockers man to be offended by "Motorcycle" would be if he thought about it with a little imagination, if he picked up on some fairly subtle cues, if he integrated an awful lot of detail. In other words, a Dockers man could only be offended if he did precisely what, according to Meyers-Levy, men don't do. It's not a gay ad because it's a guy ad. "The fact is," Hanson said, "that most men's interpretation of that spot is: You know what? Those pants must be really cool, because they prevented him from getting the shit kicked out of him."

Action Orientation (Eazy), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 13:56 (4 years ago) Permalink

Maybe they could have conveyed how desirable these jeans are by having the ad end with him getting the shit kicked out of him, but managing to keep his clothes on

Dark, promiscuous five-year-old (DJ Mencap), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 14:03 (4 years ago) Permalink

we're not looking at this from the biker's perspective, imo.

Louis Cll (darraghmac), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 14:05 (4 years ago) Permalink

You don't order it tall, venti, or mocha, like your old lady does a homo.

In this Meat Eating Manly Man worldview, ladies and homos are essentially the same thing.

she is writing about love (Jenny), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 14:07 (4 years ago) Permalink

wow a lot has changed in male-aimed advertising since that gladwell article!

max, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 14:10 (4 years ago) Permalink

What David Altschiller, at Hill, Holliday/Altschiller, in Manhattan, liked about the spots, for example, was that the hero was naïve: in neither case did he know that he had on nice pants until a gorgeous woman told him so. Naïveté, Altschiller stressed, is critical. Several years ago, he did a spot for Claiborne for Men cologne in which a great-looking guy in a bar, wearing a gorgeous suit, was obsessing neurotically about a beautiful woman at the other end of the room: "I see this woman. She's perfect. She's looking at me. She's smiling. But wait. Is she smiling at me? Or laughing at me? . . . Or looking at someone else?" You'd never do this in an ad for women's cologne. Can you imagine? "I see this guy. He's perfect. Ohmigod. Is he looking at me?" In women's advertising, self-confidence is sexy. But if a man is self-confident-if he knows he is attractive and is beautifully dressed- then he's not a man anymore. He's a fop. He's effeminate. The cologne guy had to be neurotic or the ad wouldn't work. "Men are still abashed about acknowledging that clothing is important," Altschiller said. "Fashion can't be important to me as a man. Even when, in the first commercial, the waiter says 'Nice pants,' it doesn't compute to the guy wearing the nice pants. He's thinking, What do you mean, 'Nice pants'?"

max, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 14:11 (4 years ago) Permalink

It's Time to Wear the Relaxed Fit Pants

Brad C., Wednesday, 9 December 2009 14:13 (4 years ago) Permalink

xp take into account that if a guy is dressed magnificently and acts like he knows it, that's not necessarily a hugely attractive trait?

Louis Cll (darraghmac), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 14:17 (4 years ago) Permalink

i mean more--compare what hes saying to the ketel one ad up top

max, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 14:24 (4 years ago) Permalink

I think the Ketel One ad still plays into male insecurities--you're not a man today (whether it's your fault or the world's) but last night...

Action Orientation (Eazy), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 14:26 (4 years ago) Permalink

living in a pre-clooney world

ogmor, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 14:26 (4 years ago) Permalink

xp sure, i mean, of course it plays to insecurities--all advertising does--its just that altschiller is saying that the aspirational fantasy of the ad shouldnt be preening & self-confident, because (in 1997) men dont want to "care" about how they look. but the aspirational fantasy of the ketel one ad is all about preening self-confidence and caring how you look.

max, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 14:29 (4 years ago) Permalink

"Men are still abashed about acknowledging that clothing is important," Altschiller said. "Fashion can't be important to me as a man. Even when, in the first commercial, the waiter says 'Nice pants,' it doesn't compute to the guy wearing the nice pants. He's thinking, What do you mean, 'Nice pants'?"

my point basically being that i dont think this is true anymore

max, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 14:31 (4 years ago) Permalink

I think at times the "be a MAN" schtick is kind of useful as a stand-in for "be an ADULT," -- something that's kind of useful in an era of prolonged childhood.

Yep! Also, my biggest objection to dudes "broing down" in the desert w dune buggies is that I want to go.

WHY DON'T YOU JUST LICK THE BUS DIRECTLY (Laurel), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 14:35 (4 years ago) Permalink

its maybe "useful" but turning it into "be a MAN" instead of "be a GROWN UP" means that its always being defined against women & gays which is hardly very nice

max, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 14:37 (4 years ago) Permalink

xx-post max i think it's still true in many dude circles, but def less true than before

it's like 10,000 goons when all you need is a trife (m bison), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 14:37 (4 years ago) Permalink

i dont think its very true in natl television advertising!

max, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 14:38 (4 years ago) Permalink

But I think Clooney and Obama are steering us toward an ideal in which "be a man" doesn't mean against women and gays, and with that comes the confidence that we, and not just the Dekes, are men.

Action Orientation (Eazy), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 14:41 (4 years ago) Permalink

that would be great if i wasnt looking at an ad at the top of the screen that strikes me as defining masculinity very specifically against women and gays.

as does for that matter the ketel one ad

max, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 14:43 (4 years ago) Permalink

"use Playboy frequently"

HUH? not appropriate (snoball), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 14:43 (4 years ago) Permalink

xxx-post oh! well, yes. sry 2 misread u on that.

i'm with you on the "be a man" idea being a poor proxy for achieving adulthood, smacks of implying women are juvenile and/or incapabale of taking care of things, p regressive

it's like 10,000 goons when all you need is a trife (m bison), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 14:44 (4 years ago) Permalink

OK the ad is obv BS, but about the grown-up vs "man" idea: you have to work this out for yrself. You are a man, some of us are women -- this is more than incidental to our identities, but what EXACTLY it means for us is personal. Once I was a woman who was not grown up, and now I is one who is.

WHY DON'T YOU JUST LICK THE BUS DIRECTLY (Laurel), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 14:45 (4 years ago) Permalink

nah you didnt misread, i was unclear--obviously there are large swaths of the population in a 1997 dont-care-about-my-appearance mindset

xp

max, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 14:45 (4 years ago) Permalink

What does it mean that we are supposed to "man up" but "bro down"??

Nuyorican oatmeal (jaymc), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 14:45 (4 years ago) Permalink

man is v seriousss (suits, business), bro is fun (flip flops, dune buggies)

it's like 10,000 goons when all you need is a trife (m bison), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 14:46 (4 years ago) Permalink

but laurel if you say "be a MAN" and you mean "be a MAN and not a WOMAN" youre necessarily implying that women are bad, or that being like a woman is bad.

max, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 14:46 (4 years ago) Permalink

Well maybe that's a common underlying intention in that phrase, but to me personally it's more like, "Be a man because you are one -- accept it and redefine it for yourself but live up to SOMETHING" and I will be a woman because I am one and ditto the above.

WHY DON'T YOU JUST LICK THE BUS DIRECTLY (Laurel), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 14:48 (4 years ago) Permalink

ok yeah but thats a way more complex and abstracted reading of the phrase than is ever encouraged by the ads

max, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 14:49 (4 years ago) Permalink

If I say, "be a MAN", I am implying that some other people with penises are not worthy to qualify as "men" by my standards, and I don't want you to be one of them.

WHY DON'T YOU JUST LICK THE BUS DIRECTLY (Laurel), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 14:50 (4 years ago) Permalink

Is that better/simpler? But anyway yeah I'm not arguing w you about advertising cos u right, and also I didn't grow up with the question of sufficient manliness hovering around me all the time and being oppressive.

WHY DON'T YOU JUST LICK THE BUS DIRECTLY (Laurel), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 14:51 (4 years ago) Permalink

what would you sell with this concept of MAN?

ogmor, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 14:52 (4 years ago) Permalink

no i mean i see what youre saying laurel i just am still skeptical of the phrase partly cause i dont know how i feel about gender essentialism and susan faludi and fight club and all that shit

max, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 14:52 (4 years ago) Permalink

MEN WERE STRIPPED OF THEIR KHAKIS

^^doing the world a huge favor, btw

WHY DON'T YOU JUST LICK THE BUS DIRECTLY (Laurel), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 14:52 (4 years ago) Permalink

Khakis are nice to lounge around in, stfu.

kingkongvsgodzilla, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 14:53 (4 years ago) Permalink

: )

kingkongvsgodzilla, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 14:53 (4 years ago) Permalink

i'm with you on the "be a man" idea being a poor proxy for achieving adulthood, smacks of implying women are juvenile and/or incapabale of taking care of things, p regressive

don't agree with this at all- the more natural thing to draw from it is to be a man as opposed to being a boy, not a woman.

Louis Cll (darraghmac), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 14:54 (4 years ago) Permalink

I like the Gap's 90s campaign to re-associate khakis with writers, Miles, etc. Men vs. drones.

Action Orientation (Eazy), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 14:55 (4 years ago) Permalink

xp in certain contexts that might be true but its hard to pretend that the idea of man-as-opposed-to-woman doesnt inhere given that you know "man" is a gendered word

max, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 14:56 (4 years ago) Permalink

yeah actually eazy i think the gaps 90s campaign is the real harbinger for the ketel one type ad--and maybe even the dockers ad--with this whole 'lost era of american masculinity' type nostalgia

max, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 14:56 (4 years ago) Permalink

x post to mac in the context of many male-aimed ads (esp the top ad in question), the foil is not boyhood but primarily the "opposite" gender and its ill effects on manhood

it's like 10,000 goons when all you need is a trife (m bison), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 14:58 (4 years ago) Permalink

matter fact, in sort of bro-type ads (dave and busters comes to mind immediately), boyhood and the casting off of adult responsibilities is celebrated!

it's like 10,000 goons when all you need is a trife (m bison), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 14:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

I agree, max, and I think yr right that being aware of which side is being run down by comparisons to the other is crucial to be on the lookout for, but I think there are more charitable views of what "be a man" entails sometimes.

xp Things that celebrate being bros are NOT what the manly ad is about. Most definitely.

What is Dave & Buster's?

WHY DON'T YOU JUST LICK THE BUS DIRECTLY (Laurel), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 15:00 (4 years ago) Permalink

men vs drones is the only one of these I could even sort of get behind. I want to see the man as adult camp come up with some nostalgic call to arms on the lines of the ad up top. "hoodie by hoodie, xbox by xbox"...?

ogmor, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 15:00 (4 years ago) Permalink

xpost to laurel, it is like a video games and wings and beer kind of place, like chuck e cheese for adults...i don't know a comparable analogue elsewhere in the country, but they exist in texas and advertise on a sort of "be a kid again yay!" tip to the 20-30 y/o dude set

it's like 10,000 goons when all you need is a trife (m bison), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 15:02 (4 years ago) Permalink

Dave and Busters, Laurel. No kidding.

kingkongvsgodzilla, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 15:04 (4 years ago) Permalink

Look at the things men are expected to do in the Kettel 1 ad: they are all things that are WORK for them, and that benefit others. Now, whether some of them are the best solution to the world's problems is debateable (why hello dere, Promise Keeprs), but those commands are not about having fun or being irresponsible. It's more like they're telling you, Your life is best when it's devoted to others. Go and see where your strength and skills can be put to use.

This, at it's best and not in a shitty ad way, is kind of amazing for everyone, plus I wouldn't be too bothered by the gender component of that. Mostly because anyone for whom a life of service was a desirable thing, is probably not too bothered about exactly who does what in reality.

WHY DON'T YOU JUST LICK THE BUS DIRECTLY (Laurel), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 15:04 (4 years ago) Permalink

With Dave & Busters and Ketel One, I think part of the idea is that "we validate your thoughts and feelings--wanting to be a kid, wanting to be a cad--that aren't being validated around you, whether by your boss, your wife, your kids, etc.--and by validating those feelings in a safe way (i.e., don't leave your family, don't screw around) we will complete you as a man. Come off to the Ketel One woods with us, and you will return complete and confident--not changed, but with your internal self more merged with your social self. We'll make you a complete man."

Action Orientation (Eazy), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 15:06 (4 years ago) Permalink

OK wait I think I misunderstood something: what is the original ad with all the words on it for?

WHY DON'T YOU JUST LICK THE BUS DIRECTLY (Laurel), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 15:07 (4 years ago) Permalink

man pants iirc

it's like 10,000 goons when all you need is a trife (m bison), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 15:07 (4 years ago) Permalink

Is that a Levi's ad? Some of it looks like their web design.

WHY DON'T YOU JUST LICK THE BUS DIRECTLY (Laurel), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 15:08 (4 years ago) Permalink

xps to max & bison yeah i'll accept that's more than fair in view of the ads in question.

Louis Cll (darraghmac), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 15:08 (4 years ago) Permalink

kerouac wore khakis; ginsberg wore corduroys

elmo leonard (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 15:10 (4 years ago) Permalink


Ginsberg wore OshKosh B'Gosh.

Action Orientation (Eazy), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 15:13 (4 years ago) Permalink

I don't think the dockers ad is so much an advert for selfless heroism so much as identifying selfless heroism as a trait on a par with "not being a fag" in the modern definition of being a MAN.

ogmor, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 15:16 (4 years ago) Permalink

lol xp

what u think i steen for to push a crawfish? (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 15:18 (4 years ago) Permalink

That Dockers ad is hilariously stupid. I associate wearing Dockers with being in high school so the whole "BE A MAN" thing is pretty much entirely undercut by the fact that I was a child intentionally buying conservative pants that I could wear wit combat boots and Cure t-shirts.

wtf?!? just randomly started crying! (HI DERE), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 15:18 (4 years ago) Permalink

I wish Harry Stein's Esquire article from 1994 about the "post-sensitive man" (Clinton and Lyle Lovett as examples, leading the way for Obama and Cloon) was on-line somewhere. Instead, there's just coverage of it from the NY Times:

The May issue trumpets the ascendance of the Post-Sensitive Man, one who treats women with respect but no longer needs to feel guilty "for the crime of simply thinking and feeling as men always have," as the article's author, Harry Stein, puts it.

The Sensitive Man, who re-created himself in response to feminism -- condemning the macho spirit, proclaiming emotional openness and purging prurient thoughts -- was always something of a fraud, asserts Mr. Stein, who is 45 and married. What's more, everyone was still dissatisfied, anyway. He suggests optimistically that today, in the easy-going acceptance of the inner differences between men and women and an end to self-righteousness on all sides, lies the possibility of "genuine understanding between the sexes."

Action Orientation (Eazy), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 15:24 (4 years ago) Permalink

where do buffed out dudes in brightly-colored MMA bootyshorts and foil-pressed images of brass knuckles on $175 tshirts enter into this masculinity discussion?

elmo leonard (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 15:25 (4 years ago) Permalink

around 2007 i think

max, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 15:27 (4 years ago) Permalink

o i thought you said "when"--should have responded, "around the metropolitan ave stop"

max, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 15:28 (4 years ago) Permalink

i <3 you, max

WHY DON'T YOU JUST LICK THE BUS DIRECTLY (Laurel), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 15:33 (4 years ago) Permalink

Results 1 - 10 of about 65,100 for "sensitive new-age man". (0.37 seconds)

Nuyorican oatmeal (jaymc), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 15:36 (4 years ago) Permalink

just curious what macho-khakism has to do with peacocking MMA dudes, if anything. is there a shift because of the economy? who's the REAL fag here??

(also just trying to bring up that there are many masculinities in the culture and talking in monolithic terms is oversimplifying the picture.)

elmo leonard (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 15:36 (4 years ago) Permalink

like old western, mustache, strong silent type man or international playboy sophisticate type man or athletic and muscles MMA type or etc etc?

it's like 10,000 goons when all you need is a trife (m bison), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 15:49 (4 years ago) Permalink

ads for the marines feel like a combo of all three for me (not so much the second)

it's like 10,000 goons when all you need is a trife (m bison), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 15:50 (4 years ago) Permalink

military ads are like the ideal masculine ads, and they combine the commitment to serving others impulse laurel described earlier with the "plus you can be macho and blow shit up" impulse of...i dunno, mma and dave and busters ok i am grasping at straws on that i think

it's like 10,000 goons when all you need is a trife (m bison), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 15:53 (4 years ago) Permalink

So what type of pants do you all wear on the weekends?

kingkongvsgodzilla, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 15:55 (4 years ago) Permalink

wait, you can blow shit up at Dave & Busters??????????????????

wtf?!? just randomly started crying! (HI DERE), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 15:55 (4 years ago) Permalink

piloting a drone is just like d&bs afaik

what u think i steen for to push a crawfish? (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 15:55 (4 years ago) Permalink

So what type of pants do you all wear on the weekends?

Problem w/the premise here, in that if u are wearing pants on the weekend u are misunderstanding the concept of "weekend."

james cameron gargameled my boner for life (Pancakes Hackman), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 15:56 (4 years ago) Permalink

I guess you do your grocery shopping on Wednesdays, then.

wtf?!? just randomly started crying! (HI DERE), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 15:57 (4 years ago) Permalink

i shop at an exclusive men's only pantsless grocery store fyi

it's like 10,000 goons when all you need is a trife (m bison), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 15:57 (4 years ago) Permalink

fuck it, let's blame all this bullshit on Fight Club

elmo leonard (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 15:57 (4 years ago) Permalink

eh why do that when can blame it on feminism and vote republican for the rest of our lives

max, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 15:58 (4 years ago) Permalink

"you are not your goddamn khakis"

elmo leonard (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 15:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

real men use plastic forks! what are you supposed to do during the Real Man (TM) activity of BBQing????

eight woofers in the trunk sb'n down the block (M@tt He1ges0n), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 16:01 (4 years ago) Permalink

use big steel fuck-off ones, that's if you just don't use mammoth tusks.

Louis Cll (darraghmac), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 16:02 (4 years ago) Permalink

man all these years i might has well have been holding my BBQ tongs with my vagina : (

eight woofers in the trunk sb'n down the block (M@tt He1ges0n), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 16:02 (4 years ago) Permalink

how the hell does one BBQ with a plastic fork???????

men, we are all doomed

wtf?!? just randomly started crying! (HI DERE), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 16:03 (4 years ago) Permalink

metal forks are best if you have a lady to wash them and can thus avoid the castrating effects of dishwater

elmo leonard (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 16:04 (4 years ago) Permalink

you BBQ with steel implements of doom

you eat BBQ with yr goddamned BARE HANDS

rawr

wtf?!? just randomly started crying! (HI DERE), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 16:05 (4 years ago) Permalink

surely you chain saw the meat into pieces before shoving the whole lot into your mouth together with some charcoal with your bare hands

I sb'ed your mum (ken c), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 16:05 (4 years ago) Permalink

xpost

I sb'ed your mum (ken c), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 16:05 (4 years ago) Permalink

lol Dan grocery shopping is women's work

james cameron gargameled my boner for life (Pancakes Hackman), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 16:06 (4 years ago) Permalink

Nobody's copping to their pants.

kingkongvsgodzilla, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 16:06 (4 years ago) Permalink

you don't actually cook the meat, by the way, you just want to eat the hot charcoal and have the meat cooked inside your stomach

I sb'ed your mum (ken c), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 16:06 (4 years ago) Permalink

how the hell does one BBQ with a plastic fork???????

men, we are all doomed

― wtf?!? just randomly started crying! (HI DERE), Wednesday, December 9, 2009 4:03 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

dude I mean eating like your potato salad and baked beans with a plastic fork...i mean who wants to bring actual silverware to the park???

wearing women's panties right now tbh

eight woofers in the trunk sb'n down the block (M@tt He1ges0n), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 16:08 (4 years ago) Permalink

rawr

jazzgasms (Mr. Que), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 16:09 (4 years ago) Permalink

Worrying about silverware is not a man's job!

RAWR

wtf?!? just randomly started crying! (HI DERE), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 16:10 (4 years ago) Permalink

how do you eat cous cous with a fork anyway?

I sb'ed your mum (ken c), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 16:14 (4 years ago) Permalink

I don't understand why they are using the Levis design manual and then not putting a brand name in? It is just a free ad, for Levis, by someone else?

Gravel Puzzleworth, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 16:15 (4 years ago) Permalink

it's dockers, same company

harbl, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 16:15 (4 years ago) Permalink

I have a lot to learn about being a man.

RAWR.

eight woofers in the trunk sb'n down the block (M@tt He1ges0n), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 16:16 (4 years ago) Permalink

Its not an ad, it's from their website:

http://www.us.dockers.com/season/landing.aspx

kingkongvsgodzilla, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 16:16 (4 years ago) Permalink

wait I thought khakis were for pussies...

jesus i came to work feeling like ray lewis and i'm gonna leave feeling like klaus nomi.

RAWR.

eight woofers in the trunk sb'n down the block (M@tt He1ges0n), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 16:18 (4 years ago) Permalink

i eat my food off the floor, sometimes out of a bowl. . . if i'm feeling fancy. . . otherwise, it's off the floor

RAWR

jazzgasms (Mr. Que), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 16:20 (4 years ago) Permalink

feelings are for women, matt

I sb'ed your mum (ken c), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 16:20 (4 years ago) Permalink

I just punched a deer in the face.

RAWR.

eight woofers in the trunk sb'n down the block (M@tt He1ges0n), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 16:21 (4 years ago) Permalink

i piss in the woods and shake hands with strangers and goddamn it I MAKE EYE CONTACT

RAWR

it's like 10,000 goons when all you need is a trife (m bison), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 16:21 (4 years ago) Permalink

despite being flawless sometimes i make mistakes deliberately so i can stand up to admit to them.

RAWR

I sb'ed your mum (ken c), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 16:23 (4 years ago) Permalink

i taught a bobcat how to whistle the theme from rocky. my workout routine is running for my life every morning to its majestic ersatz trumpet fanfare.

RAWR

it's like 10,000 goons when all you need is a trife (m bison), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 16:25 (4 years ago) Permalink

My Vietnam Vet dad looks UP to ME godammit

RAWR

Louis Cll (darraghmac), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 16:31 (4 years ago) Permalink

this thread is turning into Courage Wolf Part II: The Wrath of Courage Wolf

RAWR

jazzgasms (Mr. Que), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 16:33 (4 years ago) Permalink

I will wear a Claiborne shirt with Calvin Klein pants without even blinking

RAWR

wtf?!? just randomly started crying! (HI DERE), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 16:34 (4 years ago) Permalink

RAwr no what

Louis Cll (darraghmac), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 16:36 (4 years ago) Permalink

RAWR?

jazzgasms (Mr. Que), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 16:39 (4 years ago) Permalink

my workout routine is running for my life every morning to its majestic ersatz trumpet fanfare.
wait a second
i've done this
does that make me a man?

(note: my name is amanda. when i was a kid people used to say "a man...DUH" and i think that moment is coming full circle for me right now in triumphant manliness)

figgy pudding (La Lechera), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 16:40 (4 years ago) Permalink

howie long is my mantor

ice cr?m, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 16:42 (4 years ago) Permalink

sigh

Kate 'Impeach' Bush (Future_Perfect), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 17:19 (4 years ago) Permalink

God
I think the increasing fashion-awareness or image-consciousness in men that is characterized as "feminisation" is actually just a symptom of the broadening reach of consumer capitalism & marketing. someone once said that "metrosexuality" was concocted & encouraged by magazines & advertising because the paradigm of straight men being oblivious to what they wear is bad for business. more straight men today(and not just so-called hipsters) are more concerned about clothing, I believe, but overall perhaps it's just a triumph of marketing.

OR perhaps men are just exposed to way more media than half a century ago, ie, surfing the internet at work instead on the assembly line or something? i don't know just taking wild guesses

lukevalentine, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 18:35 (4 years ago) Permalink

re: the "There's no more John Wayne's anymore," comment in the Emascualting Truth video. If this statement is true, I seriously don't think the cause lies with chemicals in water / food or whatever but rather in the fact that middle class men today are not being raised to fight in wars? during the world War II / Cold War era, the stakes were such that people just HAD to have a certain toughness that isn't necessary today & thus a certain image of John Wayne masculinity was the ideal, but that was always an extreme to begin with, plus I don't think even John Wayne himself was 100% John Wayne IRL

lukevalentine, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 18:35 (4 years ago) Permalink

plus I reckon it's politically incorrect to act in such a way now what with women & gheys having "rights" these days, shucks

I always identified with Jack Kerouac 1000 times more than John Wayne actually

& the Kerouac ad actually kinda makes me want to wear khakis tbh

lukevalentine, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 18:39 (4 years ago) Permalink

Famed metrosexual Marion Morrison, you mean?

l'homme moderne: il forniquait et lisait des journaux (Michael White), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 18:41 (4 years ago) Permalink

I don't think even John Wayne himself was 100% John Wayne IRL

omar little, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 18:43 (4 years ago) Permalink

lukevalentine, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 18:48 (4 years ago) Permalink

I ate a caesar salad with crab meat for lunch today while wearing brown corduroy trousers and a kicky Missoni cardigan- am I part of the problem here?

I washed it down with an espresso, is that more testicular than a latte for some reason? Or is it Euro-faggy and thus not macho?

(I didn't use a plastic fork though- metal cutlery all the way).

twice boiled cabbage is death, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 19:04 (4 years ago) Permalink

single or double espresso?

omar little, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 19:05 (4 years ago) Permalink

See corduroys and khakis inhabit the same place for me.

kingkongvsgodzilla, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 19:06 (4 years ago) Permalink

double espresso

for me, its:

corduroy = hipster
khaki = probably has a job of some kind (Best Buy?)

twice boiled cabbage is death, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 19:22 (4 years ago) Permalink

how did indifference to one's appearance become a "masculine" trait, anyway?

elmo leonard (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 19:29 (4 years ago) Permalink

I'm not indifferent to my appearance and I think its ridiculous that people trot out khakis as a synechdoche of that!

kingkongvsgodzilla, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 19:33 (4 years ago) Permalink

Chiming in late here, but one of the interesting things I get from this is not just the evolution of the aspired-to image of masculinity, of being a "proper fella," but the complete inversion of it.

For example, the Starbucks thing; you take the aforementioned previous desired image of men from the 50s/Playboy/Jetset/Bond era, the Clooney/Obama vector, shall we call it. The suave, debonair, cosmopolitan & knowledgeable man. Not just a grown-up, or a teenager 20 years on who's acquired a full golf bag of deficiency-compensating behaviors, but an actual adult with a developed inner self.

Where the postwar jetsetter ideal was the man(James Bond, Cary Grant onscreen, etc) who would easily walk into any cafe either in some deep beatnik enclave or on the Continent and order a vente. You have the image of a man sure of himself; a worldly, well-read fellow who's picked up a bit here and there, rather than the anti-intellectual/homophobic/insecure/reactionary thicko who'd call him faggit for using that term.

What was once the apex of masculinity became inverted to the level of the foppish homosexual. (That that 50s man was homophobic as well is an interesting irony)

Key example: shaving kits. I can't find a good magazine advert for a kit, but you get the idea; the concept that a proper adult male cares about what he looks like and makes an effort to look presentable both to the ladies and to the office.

The metrosexual thing just seems like a way to get that idea back into a pop comprehension, as such concerns("who gives a shit if I look like a schlub?!") were deliberately ignored for two decades or more.

kingfish, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 19:47 (4 years ago) Permalink

this thread has been making me die laughing when i should be writing a paper. that is indicting this sort of thing.

smoke break. and btw, I'M A MARLBORO MAN.

And now my dick is where? Oh, this is too rich (the table is the table), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 19:49 (4 years ago) Permalink

This thread is making me swoon a little bit cos I don't really think about MEN as such all that often and now I'm thinking about it more.

WHY DON'T YOU JUST LICK THE BUS DIRECTLY (Laurel), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 19:50 (4 years ago) Permalink

goldmine:

http://pzrservices.typepad.com/vintageadvertising/advertising_from_the_1950s/

http://pzrservices.typepad.com/vintageadvertising/advertising_from_the_1960s/

http://pzrservices.typepad.com/vintageadvertising/vintage_advertising_to_men/

Looking at this stuff now, it's very difficult to see these old illustrated adverts that haven't be re-purposed by Winston Smith.

kingfish, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 19:53 (4 years ago) Permalink

this whole "men caring about their appearance = feminisation" always comes across weird to me. I'm a schlubby and not particularly masculine man and my paternal grandfather was really macho, fairly successful at boxing while in the army, and always carried a comb (was nicknamed "el gato" for his love of grooming) and was perpetually drowned in cologne. Metrosexual bastard.

Pedro Paramore (jim), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 19:54 (4 years ago) Permalink

like the idea that it's a new thing.

Pedro Paramore (jim), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 19:55 (4 years ago) Permalink

how foppish were victorians with their antimacassars.

Pedro Paramore (jim), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 19:55 (4 years ago) Permalink

this thread does remind me that i need to get a couple of new suits.

omar little, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 19:55 (4 years ago) Permalink

how did indifference to one's appearance become a "masculine" trait, anyway?

think about it from the point of view of your modern american conservative: a "real man" just acts from his gut, he doesn't dally around with wishy-washy contemplation or emotions. He's got important things to do, snap decisions to make, and everything else is secondary. He's far too busy and important to worry about how pretty he looks that day. That's silly shit for wimmen & faggits & shit.

True wimmen will be attracted to his naturally rugged good looks(which of course are natural and thus require no effort or second thought) and masculine musk that he stanks out of his pores.

kingfish, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 19:58 (4 years ago) Permalink

it's so weird that this happened considering what lefty commie fags and rightwing all american heroic dudes looked like 45 years ago.

omar little, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 19:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

how did indifference to one's appearance become a "masculine" trait, anyway?

Because when you're bad at, or ill-prepared for something, nothing is as classic as intimating that all of those skills you don't have are for losers, anyway.

WHY DON'T YOU JUST LICK THE BUS DIRECTLY (Laurel), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 20:02 (4 years ago) Permalink

the basic tom frank point is that masculinity, whatever its style, has always been marketed.

what i see in common, but don't really know what to make of, between ^^khakis ad, "the game", retroid style/identity moves either of the martini-classy or '30s beardo working-man variety, even Queer Eye, is: they are all about What To Do. they all offer a program, a way out of alienation. are you lost? are other men getting theirs? we can help!

goole, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 20:11 (4 years ago) Permalink

Speaking of new suits, you could sell these now and make good money. Hell, I'd dress like fuckin' Jon Pertwee every day if I were allowed to, and could afford it.

kingfish, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 20:13 (4 years ago) Permalink

1982

Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 20:14 (4 years ago) Permalink

i think the thing with a lot of those programs that are supposed to lead you to some ideal masculinity is that maybe in theory they're supposed to work well, but 90% of the time when i see guys trying to be sophisticated martini dudes or classy beardos in suits or guys who run circles around women w/the game book in hand, the efforts and execution are awkward or ugly and classless.

omar little, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 20:16 (4 years ago) Permalink

and hey, ketel one dudes? sorry:

Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 20:16 (4 years ago) Permalink

is there a commonality at all b/w the idea of men not caring abt the appearance and men not caring about their health/nutrition? seems like i've seen a number of ads for patently unhealthy food (fast food, "hungry man" dinners) that treat gustatory excess as some manly pursuit (counter this with most health-conscious food commercials being targetted at women).

it's like 10,000 goons when all you need is a trife (m bison), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 20:17 (4 years ago) Permalink

men's health is usually for shit like boner pills and supplements/routines to get your RIPPPPPPPED

it's like 10,000 goons when all you need is a trife (m bison), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 20:18 (4 years ago) Permalink

*ads targeted towards men's health

it's like 10,000 goons when all you need is a trife (m bison), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 20:19 (4 years ago) Permalink

real men don't care about their health because their life spans are already shortened by the girth and length of their monstrous penises

wtf?!? just randomly started crying! (HI DERE), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 20:19 (4 years ago) Permalink

yeah, the quiche book, which i place at just the right time when they were all reacting to the Alan Alda "sensitive man" vibe of the 70s. I think an early Bloom County strip mentions this explicitly.

kingfish, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 20:19 (4 years ago) Permalink

i think so, because men are the ones who are cared for. if there is no one to care for them they will turn into animals who eat the nearest/easiest thing. you also learn from commercials that they don't care about the appearance of their living space
xposts

harbl, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 20:19 (4 years ago) Permalink

the most "bro" ads that run are ads for vodka or carl's jr

omar little, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 20:21 (4 years ago) Permalink

seems like i've seen a number of ads for patently unhealthy food (fast food, "hungry man" dinners) that treat gustatory excess as some manly pursuit

Yeah, lotsa crossover. remember a real man eats heartily of life and has kingshit big appetites, like a brian blessed character(or just brian blessed), for food or women. health or appearance matters not. Remember, the idea here is to tamp down all conscious thought, self-examination, or any sort of internal life. Act without thinking is what is best in life.

kingfish, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 20:22 (4 years ago) Permalink

"care, feeding, and grooming own damn self" is a virtue regardless of gender imho

elmo leonard (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 20:22 (4 years ago) Permalink

harbl, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 20:23 (4 years ago) Permalink

xx-post you realize you have basically described jabba the hutt rite

it's like 10,000 goons when all you need is a trife (m bison), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 20:23 (4 years ago) Permalink

Wrangler actually makes good jeans though, for real.

kingkongvsgodzilla, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 20:25 (4 years ago) Permalink

lol i love that wrangler ad, nothing brutal about football concussions or brain damage in boxing, no sir

omar little, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 20:25 (4 years ago) Permalink

only wrnagler ads i remember are brett favre just having fun (non-professional context)

it's like 10,000 goons when all you need is a trife (m bison), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 20:26 (4 years ago) Permalink

jabba ate frogs, not hungryman dinners

kingfish, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 20:26 (4 years ago) Permalink

Will somebody explain the Alan Alda thing for me? I know he was on the show MASH but how did he become the archetype of sensitivity? I thought his character was a sarcastic asshole ?

lukevalentine, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 20:26 (4 years ago) Permalink

I thought it was Wrangler that had the animated ads in the 80s, turns out it was Levis

kingfish, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 20:27 (4 years ago) Permalink

i think we are overlooking class in our discussion here -- being unconcerned with appearances goes from ruggedly masculine to just plain boorish as you go up the ladder, for example

elmo leonard (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 20:28 (4 years ago) Permalink

Alda's prominence in the enormously successful M*A*S*H gave him a platform to speak out on political topics, and he has been a strong and vocal supporter of women's rights and the Feminist Movement. He co-chaired, with former First Lady Betty Ford, the ERA Countdown campaign. In 1976, the Boston Globe dubbed him "the quintessential Honorary Woman: a feminist icon" for his activism on behalf of the Equal Rights Amendment.

omar little, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 20:28 (4 years ago) Permalink

http://www.google.com/search?q=alan+alda+sensitive+man

Mix of self-styling and marketing, looks like. Same as true as in any era

xp

kingfish, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 20:29 (4 years ago) Permalink

yeah further down the class ladder if you don't dress down to your level you're some kind of weirdo (at best.) there was this guy i knew in college who wore three-piece suits every day (with pocketwatch!) and carried a leather briefcase. i'm sure every college has one guy like that. anyway, he was definitely considered weird but he was just a normal guy who liked suits.

omar little, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 20:31 (4 years ago) Permalink

hmm i think the alan alda guy is a descendant of the bob hope guy, but instead of a mouthy dickhead barely hanging on in a world of better men, he's a mouthy dickhead getting away with everything, cos the better men are all fakes.

lol boomers, lol writers. dream on!

goole, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 20:32 (4 years ago) Permalink

let's all just agree as the greeks did that having an meekly uncircumsized penis exemplifies masculine virtue and that having an bulbous, exposed glans is strictly for slaves, foreigners, and other lowly sorts

elmo leonard (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 20:33 (4 years ago) Permalink

lol omar went to school with M. White

jazzgasms (Mr. Que), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 20:33 (4 years ago) Permalink

haha comment avez-vous deviné ? ;-)

omar little, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 20:34 (4 years ago) Permalink

polidicks of glansing xxpost

it's like 10,000 goons when all you need is a trife (m bison), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 20:36 (4 years ago) Permalink

there was this guy i knew in college who wore three-piece suits every day

there have only been a few occasions in my life in which I have been in a suit

but I kind of enjoyed it, I felt v. classy / had a spring in my step

I would probably enjoy dressing like a swingin' playboy from time to time, and I sure think the guy you described had guts to dress the way he did with the briefcase & whatnot

but as fun as it would be for me personally it just wouldn't be worth labeling myself as "that guy"

lukevalentine, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 20:44 (4 years ago) Permalink

i.e. that guy who wears a three piece suit

unless I was a famous musician in which case I could possibly get away with it

lukevalentine, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 20:45 (4 years ago) Permalink

this is what I would listen to if I wore khakis:

lukevalentine, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 20:49 (4 years ago) Permalink

i usually get asked why "i got all dressed up" whenever i put on a goddamn necktie. standards are that low.

elmo leonard (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 20:50 (4 years ago) Permalink

The cafeteria lady at my job asked me why I was all dressed up one day. Because I'm at work!

kingkongvsgodzilla, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 20:52 (4 years ago) Permalink

She's incredibly good people though.

kingkongvsgodzilla, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 20:52 (4 years ago) Permalink

i just had lunch with a bunch of co-workers and one of them wore an oversized tweed sportcoat and everyone's like "heyyyy you got an interview or something???"

omar little, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 21:40 (4 years ago) Permalink

an interview....with destiny!!!

it's like 10,000 goons when all you need is a trife (m bison), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 21:48 (4 years ago) Permalink

a stripper he had met the night before

it's like 10,000 goons when all you need is a trife (m bison), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 21:48 (4 years ago) Permalink

every single office i've worked in, when anyone dresses up it's like "lol interview!"

omar little, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 21:49 (4 years ago) Permalink

"wore three-piece suits every day (with pocketwatch!)"

the pocketwatch is insane but this is otherwise standard business school attire lotsa places.

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 21:49 (4 years ago) Permalink

adorable cheese inscription (a hoy hoy), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 21:52 (4 years ago) Permalink

every single office i've worked in, when anyone dresses up it's like "lol interview!"

Every time someone does that to me, I stop and say, "No, no, court appearance," and walk away. Generally, they don't bug me about it afterwards.

l'homme moderne: il forniquait et lisait des journaux (Michael White), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 21:55 (4 years ago) Permalink

"i'm being tried for murder : |"

omar little, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 21:56 (4 years ago) Permalink

Michael White is the living example of a quote I have stuck to my wall: "I don't deserve credit for turning the other cheek because my tongue is always in it."

WHY DON'T YOU JUST LICK THE BUS DIRECTLY (Laurel), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 21:57 (4 years ago) Permalink

i know this is more kid-aimed, but it seems def like preparing for some idealized manhood

it's like 10,000 goons when all you need is a trife (m bison), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 22:03 (4 years ago) Permalink

I feel ashamed for thinking it, but they really need some noms de plume.

l'homme moderne: il forniquait et lisait des journaux (Michael White), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 22:06 (4 years ago) Permalink

Geez, what a pussy!

smashing aspirant (milo z), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 22:09 (4 years ago) Permalink

I always wear a tie when I'm giving a lecture. I figure if over 60 people are going to look at you for an hour, then you could make an effort.

twice boiled cabbage is death, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 22:16 (4 years ago) Permalink

i wear a tie when im having sex

max, Wednesday, 9 December 2009 22:20 (4 years ago) Permalink

I came out the womb wearing a tie

LA CANCION MAS PRETENCIOSA DEL MUNDO... (The Reverend), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 22:24 (4 years ago) Permalink

xx-post you realize you have basically described jabba the hutt rite

― it's like 10,000 goons when all you need is a trife (m bison), Wednesday, December 9, 2009 2:23 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

tbf jabba was pretty pimp

unicorn strapped with a unabomb (deej), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 23:51 (4 years ago) Permalink

Michael White is the living example of a quote I have stuck to my wall: "I don't deserve credit for turning the other cheek because my tongue is always in it."

― WHY DON'T YOU JUST LICK THE BUS DIRECTLY (Laurel), Wednesday, December 9, 2009 3:57 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

hahaha

unicorn strapped with a unabomb (deej), Wednesday, 9 December 2009 23:51 (4 years ago) Permalink

re: "The Dangerous Book for Boys"

my kid brother has that book, and let me tell you it's boring

it mostly consists of various diagrams of swiss army knives

dangerous, hah!

lukevalentine, Thursday, 10 December 2009 04:23 (4 years ago) Permalink

i really dont care abt quiche and khakis or whatever else is supposed to signify u meaty and awesome - if men have some little coffee drink and it makes them happy im down w/that - however there are some aspects of our society which deviate from traditional stoic masculinity in a way id rather not deal with

particularly the tendency of guys my age and younger to bond over pop culture in a formal near religious manner - so much nervous energy expended over dudes making sure they have the same opinion of and know all the lines from caddyshack

and it extends beyond pop culture sharing to some wider constant checking in that i cant quite articulate rite now - like dude dude did u see that chick she was awesome rite she was awesome remember that one chick omg yes remember her ok ok - dnw this bro culture neediness

id rather gaze mysteriously toward the horizon

Richard Snorkeling (ice cr?m), Thursday, 10 December 2009 05:11 (4 years ago) Permalink

I'm not sure that either of those is much of a deviation from old-school manliness. Memorizing/geeking out on pop culture is a modern variation on being knowledgeable about, I dunno, hunting or how to fix a riding lawnmower or whatever. Most of society has been removed from those kinds of tasks, so the communal knowledge that gets you into the man-group has changed.

Comparing penis size (either "look how hot my wench is" or "man I want that wench, she so fine) is pretty standard in history, too.

smashing aspirant (milo z), Thursday, 10 December 2009 05:17 (4 years ago) Permalink

I think an early Bloom County strip mentions this explicitly.

― kingfish, Wednesday, December 9, 2009 2:19 PM (8 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i remember this!

being being kiss-ass fake nice (gbx), Thursday, 10 December 2009 05:19 (4 years ago) Permalink

eh i feel like maybe there used to be some standard of not being so openly needy abt these things - u just grunt and nod xp

Richard Snorkeling (ice cr?m), Thursday, 10 December 2009 05:21 (4 years ago) Permalink

What David Altschiller, at Hill, Holliday/Altschiller, in Manhattan, liked about the spots, for example, was that the hero was naïve: in neither case did he know that he had on nice pants until a gorgeous woman told him so. Naïveté, Altschiller stressed, is critical. Several years ago, he did a spot for Claiborne for Men cologne in which a great-looking guy in a bar, wearing a gorgeous suit, was obsessing neurotically about a beautiful woman at the other end of the room: "I see this woman. She's perfect. She's looking at me. She's smiling. But wait. Is she smiling at me? Or laughing at me? . . . Or looking at someone else?" You'd never do this in an ad for women's cologne. Can you imagine? "I see this guy. He's perfect. Ohmigod. Is he looking at me?" In women's advertising, self-confidence is sexy. But if a man is self-confident-if he knows he is attractive and is beautifully dressed- then he's not a man anymore. He's a fop. He's effeminate. The cologne guy had to be neurotic or the ad wouldn't work. "Men are still abashed about acknowledging that clothing is important," Altschiller said. "Fashion can't be important to me as a man. Even when, in the first commercial, the waiter says 'Nice pants,' it doesn't compute to the guy wearing the nice pants. He's thinking, What do you mean, 'Nice pants'?"

― max, Wednesday, December 9, 2009 6:11 AM (14 hours ago) Bookmark

max quoting an article on advertising

but both the author and the interviewee are being a bit disingenuous, imo. i don't believe that advertisers of this era were simply noticing that men were not fashion-conscious. they were instead deliberately attempting to encourage a degree of neurosis in men in order to manipulate them into relying on products. the hook of the cologne ad is that the guy's self-doubt is relatable. in his slightly comical neurosis about his own attractiveness, he mimics the target viewer's doubts. so a connection in forged. and that probably works as a selling point, especially in a more-self conscious era.

but it also reinforces a much more basic psychological dynamic: that to be male is to feel inadequate about one's appeal to the opposite sex, and that to buy the proper grooming product is to assuage this anxiety. and advertisers KNOW that. they certainly know that about female consumers. ads for women's beauty products aren't based on the idea that female consumers DO feel "confident" about their looks. they're based entirely on the idea that they don't. they therefore don't instill confidence, they undercut it. and then they offer to sell it back to you. and that's exactly what's going on in the cologne ad.

in initially encouraging this kind of neurosis in men, advertisers probably had to depict it quite literally. thus the man is actually shown expressing doubt about himself. in this sense, it's a very primitive, first-stage ad of its type. ads selling sex appeal to women don't have to show her feeling self-conscious - due to decades (centuries) of fashion & beauty industry messages telling women that they aren't sufficiently attractive to begin with, advertisers can simply count on a profound degree of female self-doubt.

a little later on, as in our era, male doubt (like female doubt) can simply be assumed. now that "male consumers" have been buffeted by a few decades of conflicting, manipulative "you're not good enough" messages, it can be safely assumed that they are neurotic and confused about their own standing as men. ads can simply suggest that to buy this product will quell that confusion, will make you a real man. so it doesn't surprise me that we're seeing a lot of such messages.

a dimension that can only be accessed through self-immolation (contenderizer), Thursday, 10 December 2009 05:23 (4 years ago) Permalink

dude

being being kiss-ass fake nice (gbx), Thursday, 10 December 2009 05:25 (4 years ago) Permalink

: /

you are wrong I'm bone thugs in harmon (omar little), Thursday, 10 December 2009 05:33 (4 years ago) Permalink

!

lukevalentine, Thursday, 10 December 2009 05:40 (4 years ago) Permalink

My favorite marketed for men product = MAN TISSUES


★彡☆ ★彡 (ENBB), Thursday, 10 December 2009 05:40 (4 years ago) Permalink

they were instead deliberately attempting to encourage a degree of neurosis in men in order to manipulate them into relying on products

OTM

lukevalentine, Thursday, 10 December 2009 05:41 (4 years ago) Permalink

LOLOLOLOLOL @ man-tissues

102. LJ: British. 5. (acoleuthic), Thursday, 10 December 2009 05:41 (4 years ago) Permalink

"LET'S FACE IT YOU LIKE WANKING"

102. LJ: British. 5. (acoleuthic), Thursday, 10 December 2009 05:42 (4 years ago) Permalink

Strong, Soft, Sorted.

★彡☆ ★彡 (ENBB), Thursday, 10 December 2009 05:43 (4 years ago) Permalink

british only?

unicorn strapped with a unabomb (deej), Thursday, 10 December 2009 05:45 (4 years ago) Permalink

Soaks all those spills, and is still kind on you

102. LJ: British. 5. (acoleuthic), Thursday, 10 December 2009 05:45 (4 years ago) Permalink

btw when product marketers attempt to produce poetry or little short stories on their products, baby Jesus cries

102. LJ: British. 5. (acoleuthic), Thursday, 10 December 2009 05:46 (4 years ago) Permalink

id rather gaze mysteriously toward the horizon

lukevalentine, Thursday, 10 December 2009 05:49 (4 years ago) Permalink

hitting a bunch of angles at once (yr too fat, men like bacon, FOR MEN ONLY)

a dimension that can only be accessed through self-immolation (contenderizer), Thursday, 10 December 2009 05:52 (4 years ago) Permalink

dunno whether or not that's been posted, thread's hella long

a dimension that can only be accessed through self-immolation (contenderizer), Thursday, 10 December 2009 05:53 (4 years ago) Permalink

(deej - yeah, I think the man tissues are UK only. That's where I saw them.)

★彡☆ ★彡 (ENBB), Thursday, 10 December 2009 05:53 (4 years ago) Permalink

im just thinking "sorted!" wouldnt really translate well here -- oh good theyve arranged the tissues within the box

unicorn strapped with a unabomb (deej), Thursday, 10 December 2009 05:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

omg man tissues, I'm dying here.

kate78, Thursday, 10 December 2009 06:01 (4 years ago) Permalink

Can someone explain "sorted" to me?

Somehow all I can think when I see Kleenex for Men is "it's okay to cry."

Bay-L.A. Bar Talk (Hurting 2), Thursday, 10 December 2009 06:05 (4 years ago) Permalink

102. LJ: British. 5. (acoleuthic), Thursday, 10 December 2009 06:06 (4 years ago) Permalink

What's the Aerosmith video that has a closeup of a man crumpling a tissue? I can't remember which one it is, but I remember the MTV VJ making jokes about it.

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 06:07 (4 years ago) Permalink

"sorted" - pretty much means taken care, all set, finished. Does that make sense?

★彡☆ ★彡 (ENBB), Thursday, 10 December 2009 06:08 (4 years ago) Permalink

Just realized that it's probably short for "sorted out".

★彡☆ ★彡 (ENBB), Thursday, 10 December 2009 06:09 (4 years ago) Permalink

ENBB is you a britisher? I never knew.

Bay-L.A. Bar Talk (Hurting 2), Thursday, 10 December 2009 06:09 (4 years ago) Permalink

No but I lived there for two years which is when I saw the tissues etc.

★彡☆ ★彡 (ENBB), Thursday, 10 December 2009 06:10 (4 years ago) Permalink

"man tissues" is mystifying wtf lol. can't imagine anyone thinking that was a good idea in the states.

a dimension that can only be accessed through self-immolation (contenderizer), Thursday, 10 December 2009 06:12 (4 years ago) Permalink

then again, men could benefit

a dimension that can only be accessed through self-immolation (contenderizer), Thursday, 10 December 2009 06:12 (4 years ago) Permalink

my wife and i lolled at man-size tissues boxes we saw in ireland

velko, Thursday, 10 December 2009 06:12 (4 years ago) Permalink

Totally bought a box the day I first saw them btw. Too good to pass up imo.

★彡☆ ★彡 (ENBB), Thursday, 10 December 2009 06:13 (4 years ago) Permalink

btw I eat luna bars

Bay-L.A. Bar Talk (Hurting 2), Thursday, 10 December 2009 06:15 (4 years ago) Permalink

have fun growing a vagina

★彡☆ ★彡 (ENBB), Thursday, 10 December 2009 06:16 (4 years ago) Permalink

(the dulce de leche ones are AWESOME)

★彡☆ ★彡 (ENBB), Thursday, 10 December 2009 06:17 (4 years ago) Permalink

I mean mostly I eat CLIF BARS! but sometimes we run out and I eat the wife's Luna bars. Come to think of it it is fucking ridiculous that we actually buy his and hers energy bars.

Bay-L.A. Bar Talk (Hurting 2), Thursday, 10 December 2009 06:18 (4 years ago) Permalink

wait, luna bars are for women? fuck, no wonder jalabi chalabi behind the counter snickered whenever I bought one of those

Spectrum, Thursday, 10 December 2009 06:23 (4 years ago) Permalink

i usually keep a few in the trunk of my car

velko, Thursday, 10 December 2009 06:25 (4 years ago) Permalink

not particularly funny, just the other side of the coin, for full cognitive dissonance

a dimension that can only be accessed through self-immolation (contenderizer), Thursday, 10 December 2009 06:25 (4 years ago) Permalink

Yeah are like the Lifetime TV of energy bars.

★彡☆ ★彡 (ENBB), Thursday, 10 December 2009 06:26 (4 years ago) Permalink

luna bars are a sorta rare instance of a product that's generally non-gendered having a special "for her" version. though i guess that's not uncommon in the health supplements industry...

a dimension that can only be accessed through self-immolation (contenderizer), Thursday, 10 December 2009 06:27 (4 years ago) Permalink

I don't see those kinda bars being non-gendered at all, though.

sarahel, Thursday, 10 December 2009 06:28 (4 years ago) Permalink

dulce de leche vaginas ARE awesome. xpost

kate78, Thursday, 10 December 2009 06:29 (4 years ago) Permalink

;)

★彡☆ ★彡 (ENBB), Thursday, 10 December 2009 06:29 (4 years ago) Permalink

wait, luna bars are for women? fuck, no wonder jalabi chalabi behind the counter snickered whenever I bought one of those

― Spectrum, Thursday, December 10, 2009 1:23 AM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i usually keep a few in the trunk of my car

― velko, Thursday, December 10, 2009 1:25 AM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

women

Richard Snorkeling (ice cr?m), Thursday, 10 December 2009 06:30 (4 years ago) Permalink

velko, Thursday, 10 December 2009 06:33 (4 years ago) Permalink

is that in response to my Patrick Bateman post?

sarahel, Thursday, 10 December 2009 06:33 (4 years ago) Permalink

oh whoops - keeps women in the trunk of his car, duh.

sarahel, Thursday, 10 December 2009 06:34 (4 years ago) Permalink

I think he was saying luna's keys got locked in the trunk when he was going to meet her at a bar

what fun it is to reign & sing a Slayer song tonight (Curt1s Stephens), Thursday, 10 December 2009 06:36 (4 years ago) Permalink

I see little need to make this thread darker than it was to start with.

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 06:37 (4 years ago) Permalink

did she have a lot of junk in her trunk?

sarahel, Thursday, 10 December 2009 06:37 (4 years ago) Permalink

"jalabi chalabi"?? wtf

Tracer Hand, Thursday, 10 December 2009 11:36 (4 years ago) Permalink

considered but refrained from saying something about that

but yes

wtf

a dimension that can only be accessed through self-immolation (contenderizer), Thursday, 10 December 2009 12:11 (4 years ago) Permalink

I had a huge multiparagraph post that I wrote out on the train on my phone, but I had forgotten to log in and so the post disappeared. An attempted reconstruction:

Maybe one of the things that has pointed men away from dressing well is a need to feel frugal.

I googled the Missoni cardigan mentioned above and the garment costs multiple hundreds of dollars. I wouldn't pay over a hundred for anything other than a business suit, a winter coat, or shoes. I expect for many even that would seem overpriced. Ultimately, "dressing nicely" means wearing clothing of little utility in comparison with its cost.

I don't know to what extent this idea might be portrayed in advertising, but the thought struck me this morning and I kinda wanted to stick up for myself and the other slobs.

kingkongvsgodzilla, Thursday, 10 December 2009 12:26 (4 years ago) Permalink

Maybe one of the things that has pointed men away from dressing well is a need to feel frugal.

Important corrollary to this is that haven't average household incomes decreased significantly since the Cary Grant postwar jetsetter era hailed above?

kingkongvsgodzilla, Thursday, 10 December 2009 12:30 (4 years ago) Permalink

I wouldn't pay over a hundred for anything other than a business suit, a winter coat, or shoes.

not even shoes, tbh

Louis Cll (darraghmac), Thursday, 10 December 2009 12:36 (4 years ago) Permalink

good pair of jeans, tho, maybe

Louis Cll (darraghmac), Thursday, 10 December 2009 12:36 (4 years ago) Permalink

I wouldn't pay over a hundred fifty quid for anything other than a business suit, a winter coat, or shoes.

Colonel Poo, Thursday, 10 December 2009 12:40 (4 years ago) Permalink

In relative terms, clothes used to be a bit more expensive 50 years ago so thrift came in the guises of a) more conservative dress sense and b) higher quality basics in the middle of the market - good wool suits etc. You'd spend the equivalent of a month's wages on a winter coat but wear it for 10 years minimum.

special vixens unit (suzy), Thursday, 10 December 2009 12:42 (4 years ago) Permalink

That is interesting info. Thanks, Suzy.

kingkongvsgodzilla, Thursday, 10 December 2009 12:48 (4 years ago) Permalink

It's true.

Which is why the suit would be down the pawnbrokers, and back out on payday.

Mark G, Thursday, 10 December 2009 13:13 (4 years ago) Permalink

Yeah I don't mean to be all KIDS THESE DAYS but back-to-school always used to be about one pair of shoes (and maybe one pair of sneakers) plus capsule wardrobe and is now about buying in bulk at Target/J Crew plus a gazillion pairs of cheapo/less cheapo shoes, depending on your income - and natural fabrics. That attitude carried on through life. My grandparents spent a great deal of their '70s/'80s small talk whining about synthetic fabrics and the false economies/tackiness of same.

This is why all of my Mad Men-era clothes inherited from various female relatives stay in perfect condition unless the moths get 'em, and why it's difficult to find good men's vintage suits - the jackets are always fine but dudes wore the butts/sacks out of the trousers.

special vixens unit (suzy), Thursday, 10 December 2009 13:25 (4 years ago) Permalink

Sacks, Suzy?

kingkongvsgodzilla, Thursday, 10 December 2009 13:35 (4 years ago) Permalink

Unmentionable Man Problem, Mentioned: scrotal rub against fabric wearing out the fabric over time.

special vixens unit (suzy), Thursday, 10 December 2009 13:48 (4 years ago) Permalink

^ this one knows too much, she must be destroyed.

Louis Cll (darraghmac), Thursday, 10 December 2009 13:50 (4 years ago) Permalink

I hated the scrotal rub until I discovered boxer briefs.

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 13:51 (4 years ago) Permalink

God they must have had large scrota back then!

kingkongvsgodzilla, Thursday, 10 December 2009 13:51 (4 years ago) Permalink

Dangly bits need support! Ask any titty-bearing human.

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 13:52 (4 years ago) Permalink

gotta be honest boxer briefs ain't done it for me, that's why i'd consider spending hard € on jeans these days.

Louis Cll (darraghmac), Thursday, 10 December 2009 13:54 (4 years ago) Permalink

aaaaannnd right back on track- masculinity is when your balls wear through DENIM RAWR

Louis Cll (darraghmac), Thursday, 10 December 2009 13:55 (4 years ago) Permalink

These are serious issues for the vintage clothing savant in your life. Also scrotal rub v. jeans FITE explains the absence of large stockpiles of big E Levi's.

special vixens unit (suzy), Thursday, 10 December 2009 13:57 (4 years ago) Permalink

big P Levi's tbh RAWR

I sb'ed your mum (ken c), Thursday, 10 December 2009 13:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

...and what is truly awful is that camel-toeing has been known to have the same outcome in women, although there may be less locker-room pride involved than HAY GUYS, MY POWERBALLS DEFEATED WRANGLER.

special vixens unit (suzy), Thursday, 10 December 2009 14:00 (4 years ago) Permalink

"scrotal rub" itself is a marketing phrase for what is otherwise known as "chub rub". but whatever makes you feel better, thunderthighs.

elmo leonard (elmo argonaut), Thursday, 10 December 2009 14:03 (4 years ago) Permalink

a woman's pride come from sewing back together the jeans that were worn out by their man's balls.

I sb'ed your mum (ken c), Thursday, 10 December 2009 14:03 (4 years ago) Permalink

so they they can wear them out again RAWR

I sb'ed your mum (ken c), Thursday, 10 December 2009 14:03 (4 years ago) Permalink

Even though I've never been a victim of it, I am amazed that I've never heard the term 'chub rub' before.

special vixens unit (suzy), Thursday, 10 December 2009 14:06 (4 years ago) Permalink

i had a big chub rub problem in like 8th grade

max, Thursday, 10 December 2009 14:07 (4 years ago) Permalink

talcum powder yall

max, Thursday, 10 December 2009 14:07 (4 years ago) Permalink

I've never heard it either, and anyway doesn't "chub" mean something at least slightly other than dangle?

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 14:08 (4 years ago) Permalink

Depends on the angle of the dangle

Sonny Uplands (Tom D.), Thursday, 10 December 2009 14:10 (4 years ago) Permalink

Angle of dangle weighed against Heat of meat. Apparently the University of Colorado did a study.

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 14:14 (4 years ago) Permalink

Steer clear of this Jason guy, is my advice.

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 14:15 (4 years ago) Permalink

the angle of the dangle = the heat of the meat x the mass of the ass

twice boiled cabbage is death, Thursday, 10 December 2009 14:16 (4 years ago) Permalink

Speaking of dangle angle:

special vixens unit (suzy), Thursday, 10 December 2009 14:16 (4 years ago) Permalink

Ass. The Other Variable.

(New marketing slogan.)

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 14:17 (4 years ago) Permalink

otoh the rub of the chub is directly proportionate to the weight of the gait

elmo leonard (elmo argonaut), Thursday, 10 December 2009 14:39 (4 years ago) Permalink

I've never looked at the contents of that dangerous book for boys but from 2nd-hand impressions it seems like a juvenile version of the "X things every man must know" lists published in books or men's magazines. and then there's the subset of "X things every dad should know" lists.

elmo leonard (elmo argonaut), Thursday, 10 December 2009 14:44 (4 years ago) Permalink

elmo leonard (elmo argonaut), Thursday, 10 December 2009 14:53 (4 years ago) Permalink

elmo leonard (elmo argonaut), Thursday, 10 December 2009 14:55 (4 years ago) Permalink

xp author's name too close to 'gay marriage', fail.

Louis Cll (darraghmac), Thursday, 10 December 2009 14:56 (4 years ago) Permalink

1) dont touch yrself in public

it's like 10,000 goons when all you need is a trife (m bison), Thursday, 10 December 2009 14:56 (4 years ago) Permalink

Oh, poo.

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 14:57 (4 years ago) Permalink

There is a generational need for some of these books TBH, just thinking of all the guys I know that didn't have activity-based quality time with their divorced dads but do have all this collective false nostalgia to pour into their own young families.

special vixens unit (suzy), Thursday, 10 December 2009 14:57 (4 years ago) Permalink

I am encouraged by the prominent presence of an ironing board on the cover.

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 14:58 (4 years ago) Permalink

It's not long enough to adequately iron the trousers.

HUH? not appropriate (snoball), Thursday, 10 December 2009 14:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

Eh... it's one of those that hang from the top of the door. You make do.

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 15:00 (4 years ago) Permalink

More important to have an iron than an ironing board.

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 15:01 (4 years ago) Permalink

I am encouraged by the prominent presence of an ironing board on the cover.

I thought that was some kind of fucked-up snowboard. : (

kingkongvsgodzilla, Thursday, 10 December 2009 15:05 (4 years ago) Permalink

YOU NEED THIS BOOK

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 15:07 (4 years ago) Permalink

You need "Snowboarding for Dummies"

HUH? not appropriate (snoball), Thursday, 10 December 2009 15:07 (4 years ago) Permalink

I am confused by the triangle with the exclamation mark inside it. And the two magnifying glasses on either side of that. Did the cover artist run out of things he could draw, or did the author run out of things that men need to know?

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 15:09 (4 years ago) Permalink

afaik "how to change a tire" is on every single one of these lists, forever

elmo leonard (elmo argonaut), Thursday, 10 December 2009 15:10 (4 years ago) Permalink

Triangle represents fixing a car, "magnifying glass" looks more like a frying pan representing cooking skills, item top right is a baseball maybe?

HUH? not appropriate (snoball), Thursday, 10 December 2009 15:11 (4 years ago) Permalink

xp and "how to suck a cock" is nowhere to be found. Hmmmm.

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 15:12 (4 years ago) Permalink

That'll be in the cookery section.

Mark G, Thursday, 10 December 2009 15:14 (4 years ago) Permalink

lol kenan

elmo leonard (elmo argonaut), Thursday, 10 December 2009 15:16 (4 years ago) Permalink

item top right is a baseball maybe?

Thought it was a burger

Sonny Uplands (Tom D.), Thursday, 10 December 2009 15:20 (4 years ago) Permalink

Can't be a baseball since it lacks seams. Golf ball, maybe, but no pocks.

Nuyorican oatmeal (jaymc), Thursday, 10 December 2009 15:24 (4 years ago) Permalink

The guy's British, so it can't be a baseball

Sonny Uplands (Tom D.), Thursday, 10 December 2009 15:26 (4 years ago) Permalink

Some kind of wickety stickety crickety bullshit?

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 15:30 (4 years ago) Permalink

snooker/billiard ball

jazzgasms (Mr. Que), Thursday, 10 December 2009 15:31 (4 years ago) Permalink

testicle

Louis Cll (darraghmac), Thursday, 10 December 2009 15:31 (4 years ago) Permalink

It's a hamburger, you princesses.

kingkongvsgodzilla, Thursday, 10 December 2009 15:38 (4 years ago) Permalink

afaik "how to change a tire" is on every single one of these lists, forever

A lot of people don't know how to change a tire.

WHY DON'T YOU JUST LICK THE BUS DIRECTLY (Laurel), Thursday, 10 December 2009 15:39 (4 years ago) Permalink

It's a hamburger, you princesses.

How to Order a Burger

Sonny Uplands (Tom D.), Thursday, 10 December 2009 15:40 (4 years ago) Permalink

At least in the case of spare tires, the instructions are included. And changing any other tire is no different. If you can't figure out not to put the jack under a piece of molded plastic that will break, I have no pity for you.

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 15:42 (4 years ago) Permalink

my 8yo loves the dangerous book for boys

it taught him how to play poker + chess

it also has a section on how to talk to girls which is probably the most guidance he's going to get tbh

鬼の手 (Edward III), Thursday, 10 December 2009 15:43 (4 years ago) Permalink

there's also a daring book for girls

鬼の手 (Edward III), Thursday, 10 December 2009 15:44 (4 years ago) Permalink

this thread btw is like the inverse of itt a strange man asks etc

鬼の手 (Edward III), Thursday, 10 December 2009 15:45 (4 years ago) Permalink

MEN WERE STRIPPED OF THEIR KHAKIS

^^doing the world a huge favor, btw

― WHY DON'T YOU JUST LICK THE BUS DIRECTLY (Laurel), Wednesday, December 9, 2009 9:52 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark

see laurel is sexually harassing us right here

鬼の手 (Edward III), Thursday, 10 December 2009 15:48 (4 years ago) Permalink

I'm pretty sure she was thinking that the khakis would be replaced by other pants. A world of indiscriminately bare man legs is not a world any of us would want to live in.

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 15:56 (4 years ago) Permalink

ed i don't think i find objection to learning poker or chess from the dangerous book, but the fact that it's "for boys" is a bit odd to me. i'd be v surprised if the daring book for girls had a poker or chess tutorial tbh.

elmo leonard (elmo argonaut), Thursday, 10 December 2009 15:58 (4 years ago) Permalink

prescriptive gender roles therein are probably totally obvious but just sayin

elmo leonard (elmo argonaut), Thursday, 10 December 2009 16:00 (4 years ago) Permalink

I've only skimmed those books and yeah, lol gender prescriptivism. But aren't both of them kind of Boy Scout/Girl Guide-oriented? I don't think the girls' book is all "How to Change A Diaper" or anything.

WHY DON'T YOU JUST LICK THE BUS DIRECTLY (Laurel), Thursday, 10 December 2009 16:03 (4 years ago) Permalink

Really the boys' book should include "How to Wash Your Own Sheets (Believe me, you'll thank us)".

WHY DON'T YOU JUST LICK THE BUS DIRECTLY (Laurel), Thursday, 10 December 2009 16:04 (4 years ago) Permalink

I think the girls book is more like "here are some basic ciphers so you can trade secret gossipy messages with your girlfriends"?

elmo leonard (elmo argonaut), Thursday, 10 December 2009 16:07 (4 years ago) Permalink

karate moves, cartwheels, building a campfire, and yes--how to change a tire are all in the girls one

jazzgasms (Mr. Que), Thursday, 10 December 2009 16:14 (4 years ago) Permalink

My dog found this one to be a pandering disappointment:

mascara and ties (Abbott), Thursday, 10 December 2009 16:17 (4 years ago) Permalink

xxxp Well, "huh" to gossip subtext but codes themselves are pretty cool. Oh look, Que confirms it. I sort of liked the books -- obv purposefully "of another time"-looking but that is kind of cool stuff even if it IS fake nostalgia about a post-war, road-tripping, outdoors-exploring, birthing-new-Americans generation.

WHY DON'T YOU JUST LICK THE BUS DIRECTLY (Laurel), Thursday, 10 December 2009 16:17 (4 years ago) Permalink

Really the boys' book should include "How to Wash Your Own Sheets (Believe me, you'll thank us)".

LOL

l'homme moderne: il forniquait et lisait des journaux (Michael White), Thursday, 10 December 2009 16:18 (4 years ago) Permalink

learning how to build a scooter is timeless, imho

jazzgasms (Mr. Que), Thursday, 10 December 2009 16:18 (4 years ago) Permalink

I know, my dad built one out of a bicycle frame and some small engine when he was like 15? And then went on to have Vespas and later, cars that he rebuilt. I mean, why was I not that awesome at 15? I had a dune buggy, I guess, but I didn't built it myself.

WHY DON'T YOU JUST LICK THE BUS DIRECTLY (Laurel), Thursday, 10 December 2009 16:21 (4 years ago) Permalink

ok u had a dune buggy???

Richard Snorkeling (ice cr?m), Thursday, 10 December 2009 16:24 (4 years ago) Permalink

?????

jazzgasms (Mr. Que), Thursday, 10 December 2009 16:24 (4 years ago) Permalink

i will remember this next time u r complaining abt something on this bord

Richard Snorkeling (ice cr?m), Thursday, 10 December 2009 16:24 (4 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, as my first car. Orange frame, no body panels, street legal, 4 seats. Engine & transmission out of a VW bus. I drove it spring & summer for a couple of years. And the family took it dune-running in an approved "park" nearby. Learned to drive a stick in that thing, which was awesome b/c it was geared for a whole VAN and the buggy weighed nothing, so actually it was very forgiving.

WHY DON'T YOU JUST LICK THE BUS DIRECTLY (Laurel), Thursday, 10 December 2009 16:26 (4 years ago) Permalink

Hey, sometimes Christians have fun too.

WHY DON'T YOU JUST LICK THE BUS DIRECTLY (Laurel), Thursday, 10 December 2009 16:27 (4 years ago) Permalink

Just not too often, or they might get used to it.

WHY DON'T YOU JUST LICK THE BUS DIRECTLY (Laurel), Thursday, 10 December 2009 16:27 (4 years ago) Permalink

gdamn i dreamed of dune buggies

Richard Snorkeling (ice cr?m), Thursday, 10 December 2009 16:28 (4 years ago) Permalink

just enough to let them know what heaven might be like

stop grieving, it's only a chicken (darraghmac), Thursday, 10 December 2009 16:29 (4 years ago) Permalink

wife tells me her dad did similar, just sub vw bug for the bus

it's like 10,000 goons when all you need is a trife (m bison), Thursday, 10 December 2009 16:29 (4 years ago) Permalink

But even w a windshield, the wind speed was BRUTAL over about 35 or 40 mph, so it was just for tooling around locally. Funny, I never tried wearing a helmet....

WHY DON'T YOU JUST LICK THE BUS DIRECTLY (Laurel), Thursday, 10 December 2009 16:29 (4 years ago) Permalink

M, is your wife Midwestern/conservative in her origins, too?

WHY DON'T YOU JUST LICK THE BUS DIRECTLY (Laurel), Thursday, 10 December 2009 16:34 (4 years ago) Permalink

texas, but her dad is pretty conservative

it's like 10,000 goons when all you need is a trife (m bison), Thursday, 10 December 2009 16:37 (4 years ago) Permalink

so jealous that Laurel's first car could talk and solve mysteries

wtf?!? just randomly started crying! (HI DERE), Thursday, 10 December 2009 16:38 (4 years ago) Permalink

xpost her dad is just a total gearhead. both her parents are bikers, and he's a wrecker driver by trade.

it's like 10,000 goons when all you need is a trife (m bison), Thursday, 10 December 2009 16:39 (4 years ago) Permalink

holy shit i forgot about fucking speed buggy until just now

jazzgasms (Mr. Que), Thursday, 10 December 2009 16:40 (4 years ago) Permalink

that seems like an experience one would remember forever

wtf?!? just randomly started crying! (HI DERE), Thursday, 10 December 2009 16:42 (4 years ago) Permalink

LOL. adjective/modifier, not verb

jazzgasms (Mr. Que), Thursday, 10 December 2009 16:43 (4 years ago) Permalink

I'm going to write a book about spending a year trying to learn to do all of the things in all of those 100 things a man should know how to do books.

Bay-L.A. Bar Talk (Hurting 2), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:00 (4 years ago) Permalink

1. How to fuck a talking dune buggy

jazzgasms (Mr. Que), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:01 (4 years ago) Permalink

but would any man just happen to know how to do all those things if those lists did not exist? "you have been judged and found wanting, sissypants" is the subtext i get there

elmo leonard (elmo argonaut), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:05 (4 years ago) Permalink

Kind of? Then again, remember the pic you posted of you having to tie a friend's tie? See, he should know how to do that.

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:07 (4 years ago) Permalink

i feel dumb when i don't know how to do something

jazzgasms (Mr. Que), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:08 (4 years ago) Permalink

And not to get way Fight Club or anything, but there are a lot of fatherless men out there who didn't exactly take up the mantle of "man of the house.'

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:08 (4 years ago) Permalink

Myself very much among them.

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:09 (4 years ago) Permalink

it's more like "you've been judged and found wanting, human being"

jazzgasms (Mr. Que), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:09 (4 years ago) Permalink

can change a tire, can't tie a tie

everyone stop (dan m), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:11 (4 years ago) Permalink

and I'm fully ok w/ that b/c ties are constricting in the neckal area

everyone stop (dan m), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:11 (4 years ago) Permalink

can barely do either one, myself. didn't know how to tie a tie until i was like 28? 29?

jazzgasms (Mr. Que), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:12 (4 years ago) Permalink

the idea that i should know how to split logs for firewood or hang drywall just because i have a dick AND that my masculinity should be called into question for wanting that knowledge is just weird -- i can learn how if and when the need arises!

elmo leonard (elmo argonaut), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:13 (4 years ago) Permalink

learn how to tie a tie ffs

Richard Snorkeling (ice cr?m), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:13 (4 years ago) Permalink

its like really easy

Richard Snorkeling (ice cr?m), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:13 (4 years ago) Permalink

it has nothing to do with your dick elmo

jazzgasms (Mr. Que), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:14 (4 years ago) Permalink

well splitting logs can, but it's really difficult

everyone stop (dan m), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:14 (4 years ago) Permalink

Huh. Maybe my Christian-y childhood came in handy in this one way. When I got old enough that a clip-on became unseemly, Dad showed me the standard half-Windsor, and now it's like tying my shoes.

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:14 (4 years ago) Permalink

tieing, even

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:15 (4 years ago) Permalink

Splitting logs for firewood is actually rather fun. From what I've heard, hanging drywall is less so.

l'homme moderne: il forniquait et lisait des journaux (Michael White), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:15 (4 years ago) Permalink

Linden Avenue Stomp

yeah it's sounds kinda. . .hard

jazzgasms (Mr. Que), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:15 (4 years ago) Permalink

Yeah seriously - the drywall in my apartment is already hung, and using firewood here would be a bit dangerous.

Bay-L.A. Bar Talk (Hurting 2), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:15 (4 years ago) Permalink

wait

jazzgasms (Mr. Que), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:15 (4 years ago) Permalink

never mind

jazzgasms (Mr. Que), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:16 (4 years ago) Permalink

i can learn how if and when the need arises!

Okay first of all YES YOU CAN, because you're open to the idea that you will be ABLE to do those things if you have to. Some people have already resolved to themselves that they will never be able to, so they won't.

But sometimes when the need arises it's kind of too late to learn? Dry-walling isn't really an emergency activity obv although it's less cool if you do it wrong the first 3 times and have to re-do it while your domestic partner watches spackle dry...but the willingness to do so is a v useful, commendable trait, imo. But like changing a tire at night in the rain or tying a tie when you're nervous and already late for something....these are not when you want to be "learning" things.

WHY DON'T YOU JUST LICK THE BUS DIRECTLY (Laurel), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:16 (4 years ago) Permalink

already ignored, don't worry

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:16 (4 years ago) Permalink

re: splitting logs.. why would one need to learn how to chop something in half... i mean, it's quite hard to not know what you need to do???

I sb'ed your mum (ken c), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:17 (4 years ago) Permalink

that was meant to be with dan's post. anyway, i think learning news things, all the time, is useful as a human being, and it's also something you're supposed to do. hanging drywall could come in handy sometime, but if it's not for you no big deal right?

i just made my first pie crust from scratch--totally awesome experience, will do it again. has nothing to do with my masculinity/femininity, it has everything to do with trying to be a good huan being

jazzgasms (Mr. Que), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:18 (4 years ago) Permalink

human

jazzgasms (Mr. Que), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:18 (4 years ago) Permalink

Protip: if you ever need logs split, ken, please ask someone else to do it for you. If you like having 4 limbs, that is.

WHY DON'T YOU JUST LICK THE BUS DIRECTLY (Laurel), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:18 (4 years ago) Permalink

we should be tearing down walls not building them fyi

NEW YORK DESERVED MANGINI (brownie), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:18 (4 years ago) Permalink

definitely would take the protip and not cut my limb off.

I sb'ed your mum (ken c), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:19 (4 years ago) Permalink

knowing how to hang drywall is one of those things that is awesome and will save you a ton of $ if you want to re-do a room in your house or something like that, however the learning part suuucccccks

splitting is rly fun/easy if you have one of these

everyone stop (dan m), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:20 (4 years ago) Permalink

here u go im teaching u how to be a man

easy beginner knot

Richard Snorkeling (ice cr?m), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:21 (4 years ago) Permalink

que i am with you 100% about skill acquisition but on the topic of the thread, these list books are presenting these as gendered skills without which, well, you're just not manifesting your true manhood

elmo leonard (elmo argonaut), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:21 (4 years ago) Permalink

btw is hanging drywall really on one of those lists - seems more like something every builder should know

Richard Snorkeling (ice cr?m), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:22 (4 years ago) Permalink

i just made my first pie crust from scratch--totally awesome experience, will do it again. has nothing to do with my masculinity/femininity, it has everything to do with trying to be a good huan being

Yessssss! This is basic to the whole discussion -- but lots of people of BOTH genders don't know how to do stuff that used to be basic to either. Not that it redeems the douchebag ads but if we take any message away, it should be: Try to become a useful human being because you never know -- there's a reason your grandparents knew how to do stuff (Depression, war, times of need), and it could happen to you. Be prepared.

WHY DON'T YOU JUST LICK THE BUS DIRECTLY (Laurel), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:23 (4 years ago) Permalink

Here is a complete list of the tools I am proficient with:

screwdriver
hammer
adjustable wrench
paint roller

I am lost if you hand me a saw, a ratchet, a planer, a trawl, a propane torch, etc etc.

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:23 (4 years ago) Permalink

xp Also because knowing stuff is super fun!

WHY DON'T YOU JUST LICK THE BUS DIRECTLY (Laurel), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:24 (4 years ago) Permalink

hanging drywall was just something i threw out there as an example of a difficult "masculine" skill tbh

elmo leonard (elmo argonaut), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:24 (4 years ago) Permalink

I can make a pie crust. My pie crusts have gotten rave reviews, actually. Granted, they were from my mother, but my mother would actually tell me if the pie crust sucked.

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:24 (4 years ago) Permalink

ratchets are for clapping IMO

eight woofers in the trunk sb'n down the block (M@tt He1ges0n), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:25 (4 years ago) Permalink

Right?...

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:25 (4 years ago) Permalink

que i am with you 100% about skill acquisition but on the topic of the thread, these list books are presenting these as gendered skills without which, well, you're just not manifesting your true manhood

just sayin' you're reading a lot into these books, probably stuff the writers of the books haven't considered or thought about. i doubt the authors of the books would think you weren't a real man.

Also because knowing stuff is super fun!

100% could not agree more

jazzgasms (Mr. Que), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:25 (4 years ago) Permalink

Yessssss! This is basic to the whole discussion -- but lots of people of BOTH genders don't know how to do stuff that used to be basic to either

different people have different ideas of "basic", and this is fine, and worse than not knowing how to do stuff is being the kind of asshole who judges people based on whatever skill sets they have/don't have

lex pretend, Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:26 (4 years ago) Permalink

Jesus, busy thread.

Just stopped in to say that this

puts an end to chub rub issues (chafing, aka in parts of the South as "galding" (sp?), in spanish "rosar").

he's a light-hearted snake (Jesse), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:26 (4 years ago) Permalink

because knowing stuff is super fun!

YES! Valuing knowing how to do stuff leads inevitably to knowing how to do stuff. If you care, if it matters to you, even if it's just because it's fun, you'll figure it out.

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:27 (4 years ago) Permalink

btw que i also recently made my first pie crust from scratch, too. let's have a bake-off to see who is more manly!

elmo leonard (elmo argonaut), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:27 (4 years ago) Permalink

let's have a bake off to see who is more ~~delicious~~

jazzgasms (Mr. Que), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:28 (4 years ago) Permalink

also high fives, pie crusts rule

jazzgasms (Mr. Que), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:29 (4 years ago) Permalink

I bet there are a lot more men in the world right now who can replace an ethernet card, program a nanny-cam, or repair a mother board than men who can build a deck. I do not think this makes then especially vaginal.

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:30 (4 years ago) Permalink

(At least, I hope not.)

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:30 (4 years ago) Permalink

worse than not knowing how to do stuff is being the kind of asshole who judges people based on whatever skill sets they have/don't have

I am 100% okay with being that asshole, not about gendered stuff nec but about the idea of practical utility in general. People who don't know how to do everyday things that need doing...eh my patience for that is v short. My roommate is one of them, this causes me some domestic distress pretty much weekly.

xp kenan probably otm

WHY DON'T YOU JUST LICK THE BUS DIRECTLY (Laurel), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:30 (4 years ago) Permalink

my pie crust uses vodka! -- though scotch would be manlier (and perhaps inedible)

elmo leonard (elmo argonaut), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:32 (4 years ago) Permalink

I bet there are a lot more men in the world right now who can replace an ethernet card, program a nanny-cam, or repair a mother board than men who can build a deck. I do not think this makes then especially vaginal.

― Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, December 10, 2009 12:30 PM (46 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

was wondering if these nerd type things made any of the man lists - cause they really should

btw pretty sure i could build an ok deck just by reading instructions on the internet

Richard Snorkeling (ice cr?m), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:33 (4 years ago) Permalink

hanging drywall was just something i threw out there as an example of a difficult "masculine" skill tbh

It's funny that you picked that example; the only person I know who has hung drywall and is not a building contractor is my mother-in-law. She is the least manly person I know. (She also used to fix her washing machine and dishwasher when they had problems; apparently being a former engineering student turned stay-at-home mom makes one very handy around the house.)

wtf?!? just randomly started crying! (HI DERE), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:33 (4 years ago) Permalink

okay you just won the manly pie crust contest--you're using like birdshot and hardtack and nails and vodka, i'm using butter and flour

jazzgasms (Mr. Que), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:33 (4 years ago) Permalink

we should be breaking through the crusts that divide us not baking them

NEW YORK DESERVED MANGINI (brownie), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:34 (4 years ago) Permalink

i made a pecan maple crumb crust, hollaaaaaa

it's like 10,000 goons when all you need is a trife (m bison), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:35 (4 years ago) Permalink

Que, you make elmo's pie crust sound like it's CPK-approved

wtf?!? just randomly started crying! (HI DERE), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:35 (4 years ago) Permalink

im guessing to hang drywall you just screw it into the studs rite - pretty sure i could accomplish that

Richard Snorkeling (ice cr?m), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:35 (4 years ago) Permalink

I think you're the classic guy who does it really wrong.

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:36 (4 years ago) Permalink

guys decks aren't that hard

being being kiss-ass fake nice (gbx), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:36 (4 years ago) Permalink

que, the vodka replaces part of the water which allows you to work with fairly wet, pliable dough while preventing gluten formation -- cook's illustrated, dawg

elmo leonard (elmo argonaut), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:36 (4 years ago) Permalink

Dan, the inventor of the dishwasher was a rich lady whose servants never got her fragile china clean enough and/or broke it! I think her father was some kind of engineer, obv it ran in the fam.

WHY DON'T YOU JUST LICK THE BUS DIRECTLY (Laurel), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:37 (4 years ago) Permalink

I think you're the classic guy who does it really wrong.

― Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, December 10, 2009 12:36 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i am the guy who GETS THE JOB DONE

Richard Snorkeling (ice cr?m), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:38 (4 years ago) Permalink

...BADLY

WHY DON'T YOU JUST LICK THE BUS DIRECTLY (Laurel), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:38 (4 years ago) Permalink

For real, dishwashers are the result of taking the washing machine one step too far.

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:38 (4 years ago) Permalink

There is no such thing as "too far" when it makes dirty dishes clean without human intervention.

WHY DON'T YOU JUST LICK THE BUS DIRECTLY (Laurel), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:39 (4 years ago) Permalink

Maybe if you have the Brady Bunch in your house they make sense, but in that case go ahead and get a Hobart.

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:40 (4 years ago) Permalink

gbx OTM; my dad designed and built a multi-tierd deck using his three sons as manual labor after taking a six-week "how to design and build a deck" class that is still standing 23 years later

wtf?!? just randomly started crying! (HI DERE), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:40 (4 years ago) Permalink

See, a 6-week class, though, that's a perfect example of "I want this skill; I can go get this skill."

WHY DON'T YOU JUST LICK THE BUS DIRECTLY (Laurel), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:41 (4 years ago) Permalink

I am 100% okay with being that asshole, not about gendered stuff nec but about the idea of practical utility in general. People who don't know how to do everyday things that need doing...eh my patience for that is v short. My roommate is one of them, this causes me some domestic distress pretty much weekly.

maybe she looks down on you for stuff she can do and you can't? some people are just bad at practical shit. who gives a shit whether someone can hang drywall or make a pie crust?

lex pretend, Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:41 (4 years ago) Permalink

ftr I am not sure that "making a pie crust" is actually a practical skill

wtf?!? just randomly started crying! (HI DERE), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:41 (4 years ago) Permalink

I think you're the classic guy who does it really wrong.

― Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, December 10, 2009 12:36 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i am the guy who GETS THE JOB DONE

― Richard Snorkeling (ice cr?m), Thursday, December 10, 2009 12:38 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

...BADLY

― WHY DON'T YOU JUST LICK THE BUS DIRECTLY (Laurel), Thursday, December 10, 2009 12:38 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

o im sorry no one was just walking around giving me dune buggies when i was a kid

Richard Snorkeling (ice cr?m), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:42 (4 years ago) Permalink

who gives a shit whether someone can hang drywall or make a pie crust?

1. people who like to have walls
2. people who like to eat pie

jazzgasms (Mr. Que), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:42 (4 years ago) Permalink

The thing with building a deck, though, is that many people lack even the most basic skills needed to get that done. Like, using a level. Driving a nail at any odd angle. etc etc

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:42 (4 years ago) Permalink

using a level is pretty fucking easy--it involves a bubble

jazzgasms (Mr. Que), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:43 (4 years ago) Permalink

tbh I can't wait to have a house of my own so I can learn more practical stuff by doing it

everyone stop (dan m), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:43 (4 years ago) Permalink

I am totally of the opinion that if you can't figure out how to use a level within 5 minutes, you might as well go lie down in traffic.

wtf?!? just randomly started crying! (HI DERE), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:43 (4 years ago) Permalink

i personally think those kind of "x things every man should learn to do" are appealing because they're just useful life skills really, a totally different animal than those "lol salads and lattes r 4 fagz" ads that this thread started out discussing. it's only problematic in the implication that women don't need to learn those skills, but the fact that they throw in eg. ironing, sewing up a hole in yr shirt, etc, shows that it's not necessarily out to be macho. And i think there's something to be said for knowing how to do "manly tasks"/take charge of a situation. I changed a flat tire on the side of the freeway for the first time last week and felt pretty proud of myself tbh. My girlfriend didn't know how to, not that she shouldn't but she didn't, and the fact that i took care of it was appealing in a trad masculine sense.

where are that man's pants? :-( (Whitey on the Moon), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:43 (4 years ago) Permalink

or the iphone accelerometer

xxxpost

I sb'ed your mum (ken c), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:43 (4 years ago) Permalink

xpost

as far as drywall, there's just hanging and screwing in the drywall if you're lazy, but if you're really going for it then you have to do mudding and taping and that is a total bitch (sez the fag who used to work construction jobs)

twice boiled cabbage is death, Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:44 (4 years ago) Permalink

mudding and taping and that is a total bitch

2x

everyone stop (dan m), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:45 (4 years ago) Permalink

internet being readily available (esp on portable devices) also makes the need of knowing how to do something in advance less important. provided you have learnt how to use google

I sb'ed your mum (ken c), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:45 (4 years ago) Permalink

if u can't build a wall u don't deserve shelter, sleep out in the cold under some dude's deck

velko, Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:45 (4 years ago) Permalink

I am totally of the opinion that if you can't figure out how to use a level within 5 minutes, you might as well go lie down in traffic.

But in which direction? I JUST DON'T KNOW!

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:46 (4 years ago) Permalink

if u can't build a wall u don't deserve shelter, sleep out in the cold under some dude'sreal man's deck

everyone stop (dan m), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:47 (4 years ago) Permalink

http://www.easy2diy.com/cm/easy/diy_ht_index.asp?page_id=35693854

beginner's tutorial for hanging drywall btw

wtf?!? just randomly started crying! (HI DERE), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:47 (4 years ago) Permalink

Is there anywhere in NYC where you can learn how to do this kind of stuff in some sort of class format? I would love to take a class that was like "here is how to build a table, now go nuts with our circular saw"

Bay-L.A. Bar Talk (Hurting 2), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:48 (4 years ago) Permalink

whitey: understood, but there's also the implication that being able to iron your own shirts & do other domestic tasks is about self-reliance and "being a grown up" and not relying on a woman to mother you -- which does relate to the values espoused in the original ad posted itt

elmo leonard (elmo argonaut), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:49 (4 years ago) Permalink

a friend of mine works as a carpenter for his uncles contracting company - they do really high end jobs for fussy rich clients - his uncle got his start by bidding on a getting a deck building job w/o out any experience building anything - so he want to the store and bought a book called like how to build a deck

Richard Snorkeling (ice cr?m), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:50 (4 years ago) Permalink

changed a flat tire on the side of the freeway for the first time last week and felt pretty proud of myself tbh. My girlfriend didn't know how to, not that she shouldn't but she didn't, and the fact that i took care of it was appealing in a trad masculine sense.

This is rly cute, btw. It's okay to pat yrself on the back sometimes for living up to a role that you secretly like or aspire to, even if, were you being totally honest, you know it's BS. You're not living your WHOLE LIFE by it, but it's okay to think "Boy, ya done good!" once in a while.

WHY DON'T YOU JUST LICK THE BUS DIRECTLY (Laurel), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:50 (4 years ago) Permalink

xp That's self-reliance right there.

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:51 (4 years ago) Permalink

I wrote a novel one time. If you guys don't know how to write a sufficient novel that I would want to read, you should just go play in traffic and die

anyone who doesn't have the same skills as I do is worthless tbh

lukevalentine, Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:51 (4 years ago) Permalink

(satire)

lukevalentine, Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:51 (4 years ago) Permalink

(SB)

jazzgasms (Mr. Que), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:52 (4 years ago) Permalink

Really, if there are two skills that are of equivalent level, it's writing a novel and using a level.

wtf?!? just randomly started crying! (HI DERE), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:53 (4 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, but lukevalentine, can you bind your own novel?

l'homme moderne: il forniquait et lisait des journaux (Michael White), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:54 (4 years ago) Permalink

well I was thinking of the deck building thing

but yeah lol it's a BS comparison admittedly

but I know I would suck at building something if I tried

but the point I am trying to make is that not everybody is good with practical things

I mean, I can write papers in my sleep but if I tried to build something it would tons of effort & concentration

lukevalentine, Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:57 (4 years ago) Permalink

involve

jazzgasms (Mr. Que), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:58 (4 years ago) Permalink

lol

call all destroyer, Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:58 (4 years ago) Permalink

Changing a flat tire IS satisfying, really it is. You don't have to feel like you're dominating the other sex to feel like you're especially competent at something. Which was my point with the computer stuff, really -- I personally get my manly kicks by being able to fix broken computer things, to whatever extent. Or by being able to explain the economics and politics of the day better than cable news can. (Not an earth-shattering accomplishment, but still.) Or whatever it is that I feel good at. I won't deny that I get a testosterone-related charge off of those things, and I certainly won't apologize for competence.

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

instead of using levels to build decks we should be using them to even out our differences

NEW YORK DESERVED MANGINI (brownie), Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

yeah, but lukevalentine, can you bind your own novel?

Ha, never tried but I would hope so

I do agree withe general consensus that it is good to know how to do these things tho

I for one wish I didn't live "in my head" so much

xp

lukevalentine, Thursday, 10 December 2009 17:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

elmo do you think there's anything wrong with that? I don't think ppl SHOULD rely on anyone to mother them. Not on some "who needs bitches" tip, just like, being a grownup IS a good thing.

where are that man's pants? :-( (Whitey on the Moon), Thursday, 10 December 2009 18:00 (4 years ago) Permalink

changing a flat is kinda tedious imo - and it makes yr hands dirty

Richard Snorkeling (ice cr?m), Thursday, 10 December 2009 18:00 (4 years ago) Permalink

I am totally of the opinion that if you can't figure out how to use a level within 5 minutes, you might as well go lie down in traffic.

― wtf?!? just randomly started crying! (HI DERE), Thursday, December 10, 2009 11:43 AM (15 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

this bears repeating

being being kiss-ass fake nice (gbx), Thursday, 10 December 2009 18:00 (4 years ago) Permalink

changing a bike flat or a car flat? bike flats get you dirty but can be done in 5 min easy

being being kiss-ass fake nice (gbx), Thursday, 10 December 2009 18:00 (4 years ago) Permalink

I have a fuzzy memory, maybe five yrs old or so, of using my grandpa's level and pointing out that the cabin he was building was crooked.

retrovaporized nebulizer (╓abies), Thursday, 10 December 2009 18:01 (4 years ago) Permalink

lol bike whatever homo

Richard Snorkeling (ice cr?m), Thursday, 10 December 2009 18:01 (4 years ago) Permalink

I am totally of the opinion that if you can't figure out how to use a level within 5 minutes, you might as well go lie down in traffic.

Just make sure the traffic in on a slope.

l'homme moderne: il forniquait et lisait des journaux (Michael White), Thursday, 10 December 2009 18:03 (4 years ago) Permalink

yall are carpentry rockists

lukevalentine, Thursday, 10 December 2009 18:04 (4 years ago) Permalink

I'm more into carpentry electronica.

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 18:06 (4 years ago) Permalink

The thing is, in the realm of skills needed to know how to build something, figuring out how to use a level is on about the same difficulty level as figuring out how to play a note on a piano.

wtf?!? just randomly started crying! (HI DERE), Thursday, 10 December 2009 18:08 (4 years ago) Permalink

Ok look, a level was a bad example, ok?

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 18:09 (4 years ago) Permalink

if u can't change the tire on a jet airliner take a boat, pantywaist

velko, Thursday, 10 December 2009 18:09 (4 years ago) Permalink

whitey: no, there's nothing inherently wrong with that -- self-reliance is a virtue in many cases. but the "men should know" construction of these lists is really obviously gendered and prescriptive -- the discussion itt about male-targeted advertising and how undercuts the buyer's self-confidence also applies to these lists imo. it calls masculinity into question because men "should" know these things, then offers to sell it back because you can learn how -- just buy the book!

elmo leonard (elmo argonaut), Thursday, 10 December 2009 18:09 (4 years ago) Permalink

It's true -- where the hell am I going to build a deck anyway? I live in an apartment! An apartment that ALREADY HAS A DECK!

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 18:12 (4 years ago) Permalink

Let's not get into the cultural ghetto-ization of non-homeowners.

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 18:12 (4 years ago) Permalink

elmo your pie crust science has increased my already great esteem for you.

mascara and ties (Abbott), Thursday, 10 December 2009 18:13 (4 years ago) Permalink

im going to build a deck INSIDE MY APARTMENT

Richard Snorkeling (ice cr?m), Thursday, 10 December 2009 18:13 (4 years ago) Permalink

im going to build a pie inside my apartment, then deconstruct the pie in my mouth

jazzgasms (Mr. Que), Thursday, 10 December 2009 18:14 (4 years ago) Permalink

"You know what would be great right here? More floor!"

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 18:14 (4 years ago) Permalink

Ha Mr. Que I thought for a moment you were going to make a foodie-style "deconstructed pie" inside of your mouth, which I guess would be some slivers of deep-fried crust next to a few lingonberries.

mascara and ties (Abbott), Thursday, 10 December 2009 18:15 (4 years ago) Permalink

agreed elmo, i get what you're saying now.

where are that man's pants? :-( (Whitey on the Moon), Thursday, 10 December 2009 18:21 (4 years ago) Permalink

ive changed like a million tires and frankly i fucking hate it

max, Thursday, 10 December 2009 18:24 (4 years ago) Permalink

The thrill is gone, the thrill is gone away.

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 18:26 (4 years ago) Permalink

the practical skills i'm most interested in cultivating are generally domestic, homesteading type stuff tbh -- sewing, cooking, baking, weaving, canning, etc

elmo leonard (elmo argonaut), Thursday, 10 December 2009 18:32 (4 years ago) Permalink

xpost Yeah but the shit job of changing a tire has to be better than like being stuck on the side of the road for god knows how long and then paying out the ass for something you can do yourself, no?

retrovaporized nebulizer (╓abies), Thursday, 10 December 2009 18:34 (4 years ago) Permalink

How to change a tire:

1. Curse repeatedly at tire.
2. Call my insurance co's Roadside Assistance.
3. Relax while tow truck dude changes my tire.

james cameron gargameled my boner for life (Pancakes Hackman), Thursday, 10 December 2009 18:37 (4 years ago) Permalink

can change a tire, can't tie a tie

― everyone stop (dan m), Thursday, December 10, 2009 11:11 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Flip that for me. I had to tie a lot of ties in high school b/c I was in lol theatre/choir and had to get dressed up for shit like Cabaret Night or w/e. As for as changing tires go, it probably wouldn't be a bad skill to acquire, but judging by my aptitude for technical stuff like that, I'd probably just as soon call a tow truck.

(haha xpost)

Nuyorican oatmeal (jaymc), Thursday, 10 December 2009 18:39 (4 years ago) Permalink

Ha well I suppose if you don't really have to pay for it...xp

retrovaporized nebulizer (╓abies), Thursday, 10 December 2009 18:39 (4 years ago) Permalink

i ended up having to change a tire a few times and it was a lot easier than i thought it would be, even though i never had done it before until the first time i had a tire pop

eight woofers in the trunk sb'n down the block (M@tt He1ges0n), Thursday, 10 December 2009 18:41 (4 years ago) Permalink

most cars come with instruction manuals that tell you how to change the tire

wtf?!? just randomly started crying! (HI DERE), Thursday, 10 December 2009 18:41 (4 years ago) Permalink

men can't read

super sexy psycho fantasy world (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Thursday, 10 December 2009 18:42 (4 years ago) Permalink

-dockers

super sexy psycho fantasy world (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Thursday, 10 December 2009 18:42 (4 years ago) Permalink

IKEA furniture comes with instruction manuals, too. Just saying.

Nuyorican oatmeal (jaymc), Thursday, 10 December 2009 18:43 (4 years ago) Permalink

actually changing a tire is easier than putting something from IKEA together IMO

eight woofers in the trunk sb'n down the block (M@tt He1ges0n), Thursday, 10 December 2009 18:44 (4 years ago) Permalink

yeah changing a tire really seems like something u dont need to learn - its just obvious

Richard Snorkeling (ice cr?m), Thursday, 10 December 2009 18:48 (4 years ago) Permalink

Haha, maybe for you.

Nuyorican oatmeal (jaymc), Thursday, 10 December 2009 18:49 (4 years ago) Permalink

IKEA furniture comes with instruction manuals, too. Just saying.

Putting together furniture that comes with instructions may be time-consuming but it isn't that difficult! They tell you what to do, usually with diagrams showing how things fit together!

wtf?!? just randomly started crying! (HI DERE), Thursday, 10 December 2009 18:52 (4 years ago) Permalink

not trying to be superior manly here just curious what part was giving u trouble jaymc - the jack? the unscrewing the lugnuts?

Richard Snorkeling (ice cr?m), Thursday, 10 December 2009 18:53 (4 years ago) Permalink

i tried to change a tire once and the lugnuts were too tight so i had to call a two truck

jazzgasms (Mr. Que), Thursday, 10 December 2009 18:56 (4 years ago) Permalink

Changing a tire, something I have only done a few times, is relatively easy; easier in my opinion than putting on most snow chains.

l'homme moderne: il forniquait et lisait des journaux (Michael White), Thursday, 10 December 2009 18:56 (4 years ago) Permalink

Lugnuts have kicked my ass on more than one occasion.

Personally I have to savor an accomplishment on the level of changing a tire for at least a week. Two, if it was on my wife's car.

Brad C., Thursday, 10 December 2009 18:57 (4 years ago) Permalink

I find that it's not always that intuitive, though. I get easily confused about whether something should be upside-down or right-side-up, which way to turn the screw, things like that. I had an IKEA sofa that sat half-assembled in my apartment for over a month because I couldn't figure out how certain parts fit together. It's immensely satisfying when I'm able to get it done, but it can also be pretty frustrating at times.

Nuyorican oatmeal (jaymc), Thursday, 10 December 2009 18:57 (4 years ago) Permalink

No one else is noticing that we're going around in circles?

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 18:57 (4 years ago) Permalink

right tighty lefty lucy

jazzgasms (Mr. Que), Thursday, 10 December 2009 18:58 (4 years ago) Permalink

not trying to be superior manly here just curious what part was giving u trouble jaymc - the jack? the unscrewing the lugnuts?

I've never done it.

Nuyorican oatmeal (jaymc), Thursday, 10 December 2009 18:58 (4 years ago) Permalink

xxpost we'd pull over and ask for directions, but...

it's like 10,000 goons when all you need is a trife (m bison), Thursday, 10 December 2009 18:58 (4 years ago) Permalink

^^works for almost all screws/lugnuts

jazzgasms (Mr. Que), Thursday, 10 December 2009 18:58 (4 years ago) Permalink

right tighty lefty lucy

Oh, I know. That was a bad example. Although sometimes when screws don't stick I wonder what I'm doing wrong.

Nuyorican oatmeal (jaymc), Thursday, 10 December 2009 18:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

if yr lugnuts are too tight you should wear boxers, maybe AYO

elmo leonard (elmo argonaut), Thursday, 10 December 2009 18:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

don't overtighten your lug nutz fellas

eight woofers in the trunk sb'n down the block (M@tt He1ges0n), Thursday, 10 December 2009 18:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

doh elmo beat me : (

eight woofers in the trunk sb'n down the block (M@tt He1ges0n), Thursday, 10 December 2009 18:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

I've never done it.

It's toally easy. And you'll feel like Mr. FuckMeNow when you do it successfully, even though it's not really that big of a deal.

Again, though, I feel we have covered all this before.

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:00 (4 years ago) Permalink

you think changing a tire is easy and yet using a level eludes you

jazzgasms (Mr. Que), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:02 (4 years ago) Permalink

ha m. bison's directions thing reminded me of my wife's totally maddening habit of not using GPS systems correctly because she is convinced that knowing how to read a map means she can navigate better than the computer; this was a real treat when we were attempting to drive in DC

wtf?!? just randomly started crying! (HI DERE), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:02 (4 years ago) Permalink

Sometimes the guy who put the tire on got over-zealous with the air wrench.

Brad C., Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:03 (4 years ago) Permalink

This thought strikes me sometimes -- it's the things that are actually NOT all that hard that sometimes seem the most impressive to other people. The things you really struggle and sweat over, nobody else gives a shit.

Discuss.

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:03 (4 years ago) Permalink

And you'll feel like Mr. FuckMeNow when you do it successfully

what if you feel like this anyway, w/o needing to involve tyres?

she is convinced that knowing how to read a map means she can navigate better than the computer

she is RIGHT! whenever i navigate i always do it from a map and ignore the lying lies emanating from the gps

lex pretend, Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:04 (4 years ago) Permalink

It's like, the system will be "turn right now" and she'll be staring at the map on her iPhone going "oh no that can't be right, keep going straight oh oops this actually goes one way the wrong way, time for a 7-minute detour"

wtf?!? just randomly started crying! (HI DERE), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:04 (4 years ago) Permalink

I should probably not post on this thread anymore, or at least while we're still on this train of thought. In the past, it's gotten ugly.

Nuyorican oatmeal (jaymc), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:04 (4 years ago) Permalink

oops this actually goes one way the wrong way, time for a 7-minute detour

^^ New DC motto

jazzgasms (Mr. Que), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:05 (4 years ago) Permalink

the thing is, if you take a wrong turn using gps, you end up not knowing where the hell you are, but if you accidentally misdirect someone while following a map, it's fairly easy to get back on track

lex pretend, Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:06 (4 years ago) Permalink

I find that it's not always that intuitive, though. I get easily confused about whether something should be upside-down or right-side-up, which way to turn the screw, things like that. I had an IKEA sofa that sat half-assembled in my apartment for over a month because I couldn't figure out how certain parts fit together. It's immensely satisfying when I'm able to get it done, but it can also be pretty frustrating at times.

― Nuyorican oatmeal (jaymc), Thursday, December 10, 2009 12:57 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark

not to pick on you duder but i have a kneejerk rage for ppl w/o this kind of spatial reasoning. it's kind of jerky but i can't help it. no! rotate it...the other way! the other fucking way, just look at it! god!

goole, Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:06 (4 years ago) Permalink

YOUR OTHER RIGHT.

WHY DON'T YOU JUST LICK THE BUS DIRECTLY (Laurel), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:06 (4 years ago) Permalink

one should navigate london by consulting MES, imo

EXIT THIS ROMAN SHELL

goole, Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:07 (4 years ago) Permalink

Too many xposts

More like 6 minutes amirite

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:07 (4 years ago) Permalink

Also I liked how, in driving down to DC, she made an executive decision to get off of the New Jersey Turnpike and directed us straight into traffic for a 76ers game.

ftr my one snafu happened because the actual street we needed to go down was blocked off and we had to navigate around some other ridiculous one-way-the-wrong-direction streets before we could circle back to our hotel

the thing is, if you take a wrong turn using gps, you end up not knowing where the hell you are, but if you accidentally misdirect someone while following a map, it's fairly easy to get back on track

I don't know, my GPS is very, very good about putting you back on track (although I do use the map on my phone to corroborate its instructions so I do get what you're saying)

wtf?!? just randomly started crying! (HI DERE), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:08 (4 years ago) Permalink

you IKEA furniture, surrounded by hail!

eight woofers in the trunk sb'n down the block (M@tt He1ges0n), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:08 (4 years ago) Permalink

i think one way streets should be 100% illegal

jazzgasms (Mr. Que), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:09 (4 years ago) Permalink

marketing of GPS systems --> triumph of male technology fetishism over stubborn self-reliance in not asking for directions. PROGRESS.

elmo leonard (elmo argonaut), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:09 (4 years ago) Permalink

You guys who have probs w/loosening lugnuts need to learn to keep a can of WD-40 in your trunk. Works miracles.

james cameron gargameled my boner for life (Pancakes Hackman), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:11 (4 years ago) Permalink

xp I look it up on Google maps before I leave the house, and draw myself a little map sometimes.

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:12 (4 years ago) Permalink

xp Says the guy who calls a tow truck?

PS: You're right!

WHY DON'T YOU JUST LICK THE BUS DIRECTLY (Laurel), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:12 (4 years ago) Permalink

this is a real bro-down of a thread

everyone stop (dan m), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:12 (4 years ago) Permalink

You guys who have probs w/loosening lugnuts need to learn to keep a can of WD-40 in your trunk.

sounds painful

wtf?!? just randomly started crying! (HI DERE), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:12 (4 years ago) Permalink

also lol kenan: I look it up on Google Maps, then route it on my phone, then route it on the GPS. I can never be too prepared!

wtf?!? just randomly started crying! (HI DERE), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:13 (4 years ago) Permalink

this is a real bro-down of a thread

Yeah, Laurel's really swinging her dick up in here.

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:14 (4 years ago) Permalink

marketing of GPS systems --> triumph of male technology fetishism over stubborn self-reliance in not asking for directions. PROGRESS.

― elmo leonard (elmo argonaut), Thursday, December 10, 2009 1:09 PM (21 seconds ago) Bookmark

yeah kinda, but it's more about increased placelessness and rootlessness imo. i know i've asked people for directions and not gotten any kind of a helpful answer, either because they didn't know or their reference points didn't mean shit to me. and i know I'VE been asked for directions at times and had really nothing to tell them.

goole, Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:14 (4 years ago) Permalink

xp I should have said that was an xp

everyone stop (dan m), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:14 (4 years ago) Permalink

my tow truck guy tried WD-40, didn't work.

then he pulled out his giant metal pole and used it for leverage. he got the nuts off.

jazzgasms (Mr. Que), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:15 (4 years ago) Permalink

dan: I find that the drawing of the map helps me not have to refer to it. I guess I'm one of those people who learn by doing. Or something.

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:15 (4 years ago) Permalink

instead of changing our tires we should be changing our attitudes towards one another

NEW YORK DESERVED MANGINI (brownie), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:16 (4 years ago) Permalink

booming post

goole, Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:16 (4 years ago) Permalink

don't encourage.

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:17 (4 years ago) Permalink

my most embarrassing "giving directions" stories:

STORY #1

asker: Can you tell me where the Park Plaza Hotel is?
me: *shrug* sorry, no idea
nosy stranger behind me: *looks at me, then turns to asker* It is the big building right behind you.

STORY #2

asker: Can you tell me how to get to the Science Center?
me: Sure! First you cross the yahd... *stops, mortified that "yahd" just came out of my mouth* I'm sorry, I have to leave now.

wtf?!? just randomly started crying! (HI DERE), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:19 (4 years ago) Permalink

jaymc if you are still reading the thread: When it warms up, I will bring over a 6pk and show you how to change a tire. It will be massively good bro-down timez.

everyone stop (dan m), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:19 (4 years ago) Permalink

First the car lifting, then the drunkenness, plz.

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:24 (4 years ago) Permalink

You guys who have probs w/loosening lugnuts need to learn to keep a can of WD-40 in your trunk. Works miracles.

― james cameron gargameled my boner for life (Pancakes Hackman), Thursday, December 10, 2009 2:11 PM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

also lol hit the nuts w/yr tire iron

Richard Snorkeling (ice cr?m), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:27 (4 years ago) Permalink

"hit the nuts" is often good advice when you don't know what else to do

wtf?!? just randomly started crying! (HI DERE), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:27 (4 years ago) Permalink

i dunno, sometimes it takes a gentle touch

eight woofers in the trunk sb'n down the block (M@tt He1ges0n), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:28 (4 years ago) Permalink

Guys don't break the surface tension -- we'll all drown.

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:28 (4 years ago) Permalink

Back on the lists of useful things. This was a cover story on a ish of Popular Mechanics that I did pick up for the Christmas flight to the parents'.

100 Skills Every Man Should Know: 2008's Ultimate DIY List

Their list?

Automotive
1. Handle a blowout
2. Drive in snow
3. Check trouble codes
4. Replace fan belt
5. Wax a car
6. Conquer an off-road obstacle
7. Use a stick welder
8. Hitch up a trailer
9. Jump start a car

Handling Emergencies
10. Perform the Heimlich
11. Reverse hypothermia
12. Perform hands-only CPR
13. Escape a sinking car

Home
14. Carve a turkey
15. Use a sewing machine
16. Put out a fire
17. Home brew beer
18. Remove bloodstains from fabric
19. Move heavy stuff
20. Grow food
21. Read an electric meter
22. Shovel the right way
23. Solder wire
24. Tape drywall
25. Split firewood
26. Replace a faucet washer
27. Mix concrete
28. Paint a straight line
29. Use a French knife
30. Prune bushes and small trees
31. Iron a shirt
32. Fix a toilet tank flapper
33. Change a single-pole switch
34. Fell a tree
35. Replace a broken windowpane
36. Set up a ladder, safely
37. Fix a faucet cartridge
38. Sweat copper tubing
39. Change a diaper
40. Grill with charcoal
41. Sew a button on a shirt
42. Fold a flag

Medical Myths
43. Treat frostbite
44. Treat a burn
45. Help a seizure victim
46. Treat a snakebite
47. Remove a tick

Military Know-How
48. Shine shoes
49. Make a drum-tight bed
50. Drop and give the perfect pushup

Outdoors
51. Run rapids in a canoe
52. Hang food in the wild
53. Skipper a boat
54. Shoot straight
55. Tackle steep drops on a mountain bike
56. Escape a rip current

Primitive Skills
57. Build a fire in the wilderness
58. Build a shelter
59. Find potable water

Surviving Extremes
60. Floods
61. Tornados
62. Cold
63. Heat
64. Lightning

Teach Your Kids
65. Cast a line
66. Lend a hand
67. Change a tire
68. Throw a spiral
69. Fly a stunt kite
70. Drive a stick shift
71. Parallel park
72. Tie a bowline
73. Tie a necktie
74. Whittle
75. Ride a bike

Technology
76. Install a graphics card
77. Take the perfect portrait
78. Calibrate HDTV settings
79. Shoot a home movie
80. Ditch your hard drive

Master Key Workshop Tools
81. Drill driver
82. Grease gun
83. Coolant hydrometer
84. Socket wrench
85. Test light
86. Brick trowel
87. Framing hammer
88. Wood chisel
89. Spade bit
90. Circular saw
91. Sledge hammer
92. Hacksaw
93. Torque wrench
94. Air wrench
95. Infrared thermometer
96. Sand blaster
97. Crosscut saw
98. Hand plane
99. Multimeter
100. Feeler gauges

kingfish, Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:37 (4 years ago) Permalink

lol some of those are hilariously wrong

call all destroyer, Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:38 (4 years ago) Permalink

i am eliminating entire sections of that list in my mind

it's like 10,000 goons when all you need is a trife (m bison), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:39 (4 years ago) Permalink

Where to begin, even

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:39 (4 years ago) Permalink

18. Remove bloodstains from fabric

^^^i like how it's specifically bloodstains and not like wine or grape juice or a multitude of others

you are wrong I'm bone thugs in harmon (omar little), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:40 (4 years ago) Permalink

i think "brew beer" HAS to be the worst

call all destroyer, Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:41 (4 years ago) Permalink

xp I don't much like that at all.

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:41 (4 years ago) Permalink

And it's interesting to read the reactions from an actual tech-heavy DIY group

kingfish, Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:43 (4 years ago) Permalink

bloodstain advice shoulda been listed closer to "crosscut saw."

james cameron gargameled my boner for life (Pancakes Hackman), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:44 (4 years ago) Permalink

101. Cancel magazine subscription

Richard Snorkeling (ice cr?m), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:45 (4 years ago) Permalink

as i'm reading it's just....no. no. no. arguably. no.

it's like 10,000 goons when all you need is a trife (m bison), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:45 (4 years ago) Permalink

50. Drop and give the perfect pushup

this is a terrible gift idea

it's like 10,000 goons when all you need is a trife (m bison), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:46 (4 years ago) Permalink

drop and give a perfect pushup wtf

voices from the manstep (brownie), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:47 (4 years ago) Permalink

72. Tie a bowline
73. Tie a necktie

tie a bowtie is harder than both

cozwn, Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:47 (4 years ago) Permalink

I live in Texas. Knowing how to drive in the snow is only slightly more useful than knowing how to survive in the post-nuclear holocaust mutant wasteland.

smashing aspirant (milo z), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:48 (4 years ago) Permalink

39. Change a diaper
40. Grill with charcoal

proximity of these two steps is disconcerting

it's like 10,000 goons when all you need is a trife (m bison), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:48 (4 years ago) Permalink

69. Fly a stunt kite

roffle roffle

elmo leonard (elmo argonaut), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:48 (4 years ago) Permalink

50. Drop and give the perfect pushup

This made me chuckle. Just one? Are we really that flabby?

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:49 (4 years ago) Permalink

ayo brownie how come you are not over in muni lot with the rest of the Browns tailgaters?

james cameron gargameled my boner for life (Pancakes Hackman), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:49 (4 years ago) Permalink

whittle

voices from the manstep (brownie), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:49 (4 years ago) Permalink

xxp I think of Bill Murray in Stripes. He did five.

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:49 (4 years ago) Permalink

busy whittlin', pancakes

voices from the manstep (brownie), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:49 (4 years ago) Permalink

Surviving Extremes
63. Heat

step 1: remove excess clothing
step 2: drink water
step 3: get under something to block big fireball in sky

still hot? repeat steps 1-3 until not as hot

it's like 10,000 goons when all you need is a trife (m bison), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:50 (4 years ago) Permalink

bowties aren't terribly complicated but they do require a bit of practice

elmo leonard (elmo argonaut), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:50 (4 years ago) Permalink

And i wonder where something like this fits on the manly<--->bro gradient. You're still making something with your hands, after all. Even if it is chainmail made from beer tabs.

kingfish, Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:50 (4 years ago) Permalink

Military Know-How
48. Shine shoes
49. Make a drum-tight bed
50. Drop and give the perfect pushup

okay, so the military things we need to know do not include unarmed combat, weapons training, tactics, ballistics, crowd control, or any of the actual cool military stuff, but rather the stuff that your dad made you do on Saturdays when he was irritated that you'd spent all morning watching cartoons

wtf?!? just randomly started crying! (HI DERE), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:51 (4 years ago) Permalink

xxp So do regular ties, tbh, if you want that perfect dimple.

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:51 (4 years ago) Permalink

53. Skipper a boat

james cameron gargameled my boner for life (Pancakes Hackman), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:51 (4 years ago) Permalink

19. Move heavy stuff

lol at this being a "skill" you might now "know"

retrovaporized nebulizer (╓abies), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:52 (4 years ago) Permalink

102. fashion lionel richie head from clay

cozwn, Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:52 (4 years ago) Permalink

59. Find potable water

fucking 4/20 man

it's like 10,000 goons when all you need is a trife (m bison), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:53 (4 years ago) Permalink

112. Be dumb as stump
117. Crush beer can on head
141. Crush enemies
150. Hear lamentations of women

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:54 (4 years ago) Permalink

102. sire an heir

elmo leonard (elmo argonaut), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:54 (4 years ago) Permalink

103. Hire Slayer

jazzgasms (Mr. Que), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:55 (4 years ago) Permalink

but honestly, surviving tornadoes? "son, if you see a tornado, i want you to look him in the eye and just say no. it was nice talking to you, see you next christmas."

it's like 10,000 goons when all you need is a trife (m bison), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:55 (4 years ago) Permalink

104. Invoke "Droit de seigneur" on all your friends' fiancees.

james cameron gargameled my boner for life (Pancakes Hackman), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:55 (4 years ago) Permalink

105. Fence

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:56 (4 years ago) Permalink

106. master the art of sincere apology even if you do not give a fuck irl

it's like 10,000 goons when all you need is a trife (m bison), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:57 (4 years ago) Permalink

80. Ditch your hard drive

Do what with it? You mean, throw it in a ditch? I think I might like to wipe it, reformat it, and see if I can use it again first.

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:58 (4 years ago) Permalink

187. self-administer a prostate exam

elmo leonard (elmo argonaut), Thursday, 10 December 2009 19:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

for a second i thought it read "pantone" and i was all who is this guy

Richard Snorkeling (ice cr?m), Thursday, 10 December 2009 20:00 (4 years ago) Permalink

188. self-diagnose prostate cancer

it's like 10,000 goons when all you need is a trife (m bison), Thursday, 10 December 2009 20:00 (4 years ago) Permalink

See, I thought it said "Fatone" and I was like, uhhhhh . . .

ps to brownie apparently there is a wedding scheduled for 3:30 in the muni lot amongst the idiots Browns fans

james cameron gargameled my boner for life (Pancakes Hackman), Thursday, 10 December 2009 20:03 (4 years ago) Permalink

195. commandeer the vehicle of a stranger by force (non-video game)

it's like 10,000 goons when all you need is a trife (m bison), Thursday, 10 December 2009 20:09 (4 years ago) Permalink

6. Conquer an off-road obstacle

can this include alcoholism?

it's like 10,000 goons when all you need is a trife (m bison), Thursday, 10 December 2009 20:09 (4 years ago) Permalink

12. Perform hands-only CPR

Real men give mouth-to-mouth

Brad C., Thursday, 10 December 2009 20:10 (4 years ago) Permalink

I do believe I was roommates with beer can armor guy in college. I knew him when he was just coke can armor guy (I guess this was before he was 21). He would leave rotting meat under his bed and moldy towels in the closet. Whenever I'd bring my girlfriend around he'd glare at her like she was like some kind-of intruder by sake of her gender.

Spectrum, Thursday, 10 December 2009 20:11 (4 years ago) Permalink

107. Glare at opposite sex

Richard Snorkeling (ice cr?m), Thursday, 10 December 2009 20:15 (4 years ago) Permalink

pancakes, message in ILNFL 4 u

voices from the manstep (brownie), Thursday, 10 December 2009 20:15 (4 years ago) Permalink

108. Remove Bookmark from this Thread

max, Thursday, 10 December 2009 20:17 (4 years ago) Permalink

44. Treat a burn

important ilx skill

it's like 10,000 goons when all you need is a trife (m bison), Thursday, 10 December 2009 20:24 (4 years ago) Permalink

u guys as i write this i am eating rice out of the pot i cooked (slightly burnt) it in. real men have no need for dishes.

where are that man's pants? :-( (Whitey on the Moon), Thursday, 10 December 2009 20:28 (4 years ago) Permalink

but really i'm just in a hurry.

where are that man's pants? :-( (Whitey on the Moon), Thursday, 10 December 2009 20:28 (4 years ago) Permalink

Not married, I assume.

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 20:29 (4 years ago) Permalink

I hope when you wrote "rice" you meant "squirrel you strangled with your god-damned bare hands"

wtf?!? just randomly started crying! (HI DERE), Thursday, 10 December 2009 20:29 (4 years ago) Permalink

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 20:37 (4 years ago) Permalink

44. Treat a burn

important ilx skill

genuine in-office roffles! I go to a meeting and shit turns hilarious.

WHY DON'T YOU JUST LICK THE BUS DIRECTLY (Laurel), Thursday, 10 December 2009 20:39 (4 years ago) Permalink

Going wayyy upthread... I watched the whole series of "how to tie a tie", and not one of those knots is quite exactly the one that I tie. I keep watching the four-in-hand and half-windsor videos, but neither seem exactly like my (apparently special) knot. But neither are the results very different. I want my knot to have a NAME, damnit!

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 21:03 (4 years ago) Permalink

how does yr knot go

Richard Snorkeling (ice cr?m), Thursday, 10 December 2009 21:10 (4 years ago) Permalink

I... I can't describe it all with words and stuff. I suppose I could make a video.

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 21:11 (4 years ago) Permalink

But I'm not sure either myself or anyone else really cares that much.

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 21:11 (4 years ago) Permalink

In fact, I'm pretty sure I don't.

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 21:12 (4 years ago) Permalink

Ok, forget I mentioned it. :)

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 21:14 (4 years ago) Permalink

haah ok

Richard Snorkeling (ice cr?m), Thursday, 10 December 2009 21:15 (4 years ago) Permalink

Make a video and we can call it a "full kenan."

Action Orientation (Eazy), Thursday, 10 December 2009 21:17 (4 years ago) Permalink

kenan maybe it is a pratt aka shelby knot? iirc there are like 85 ways to knot a tie (topologically) but there are only 5 or so that are named

elmo leonard (elmo argonaut), Thursday, 10 December 2009 21:17 (4 years ago) Permalink

double kenan

Richard Snorkeling (ice cr?m), Thursday, 10 December 2009 21:18 (4 years ago) Permalink

http://www.tcm.phy.cam.ac.uk/~ym101/tie4/tie4.html

^ nerd alert

elmo leonard (elmo argonaut), Thursday, 10 December 2009 21:20 (4 years ago) Permalink

holy shit, that link is like catnip to me (and I don't wear ties that often)

wtf?!? just randomly started crying! (HI DERE), Thursday, 10 December 2009 21:21 (4 years ago) Permalink

Ah ha. Yeah, seems like a shelby, though I don't start the way they do in this video, with the shit all backwards and shit:

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 21:22 (4 years ago) Permalink

That would be a good bit of masculine marketing if only those were a woman's hands.

Action Orientation (Eazy), Thursday, 10 December 2009 21:24 (4 years ago) Permalink

And if it were The Edge instead of a mannequin.

Action Orientation (Eazy), Thursday, 10 December 2009 21:24 (4 years ago) Permalink

heh... I got that.

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Thursday, 10 December 2009 21:27 (4 years ago) Permalink

in defense of that popular science list (not the way it's written or every item on it), my stepdad was a popular science kinda dude. he knew his way around every imaginable tool and scientific discipline, in a knowledgeable layman's "here are the basics" sort of way. he knew all about surviving arcane emergencies and how to tie hundreds of different knots, could repair cars and household appliances and plumbing and electrical systems. had a head full of mathematical formulae and conversion tables and useful phrases in foreign languages. was not a cook, but had memorized a few favorite recipes he could execute expertly. knew the name of every plant, animal, constellation and cloud formation.

he just liked to know his way around stuff. it was definitely an ego thing for him, but one with tangible benefits. he was great to go camping or fishing with, a godsend in real emergencies of any kind, and i learned a hell of a lot from him. always kinda regretted not being more like him in that sense, but i'm not. therefore, i'm kinda cool with a lot of the stuff on that PS list and with its general intent, though yeah it's written very badly.

a dimension that can only be accessed through self-immolation (contenderizer), Thursday, 10 December 2009 22:21 (4 years ago) Permalink

holy shit i forgot about fucking speed buggy until just now

― jazzgasms (Mr. Que), Thursday, December 10, 2009 11:40 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

that seems like an experience one would remember forever

― wtf?!? just randomly started crying! (HI DERE), Thursday, December 10, 2009 11:42 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark

especially if you're this guy

鬼の手 (Edward III), Thursday, 10 December 2009 22:40 (4 years ago) Permalink

Should we expand this to images of masculinity in pop tunes? Like, say, your top 40/young country hits about "bein' a man"? As contrasted with James Brown or Jarvis?

kingfish, Thursday, 10 December 2009 23:57 (4 years ago) Permalink

I think Jarvis is a little more in a grey area than James Brown or [insert male country artist here]. Jarvis is kind of the embodiment of "My dick is where? This is too rich."

Cronenberg sleazy (kenan), Friday, 11 December 2009 00:19 (4 years ago) Permalink

^ i don't know what this means, but it's my new display name.

the embodiment of "My dick is where? This is too rich." (Whitey on the Moon), Friday, 11 December 2009 01:09 (4 years ago) Permalink

the dick in in a tub of creme fraîche? how is that good?

a dimension that can only be accessed through self-immolation (contenderizer), Friday, 11 December 2009 01:43 (4 years ago) Permalink

i think table is the table has already taken that one tbh xp

what u think i steen for to push a crawfish? (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Friday, 11 December 2009 14:10 (4 years ago) Permalink

LOL - the Shelby is named after an incredibly cool Twin Cities anchordude.

special vixens unit (suzy), Friday, 11 December 2009 14:17 (4 years ago) Permalink

Re: BBQ and how to eat it, from Joseph Mitchell:

It didn't take women long to corrupt the beefsteak. They forced the addition of such things as Manhattan cocktails, fruit cups, and fancy salads to the traditional menu of slices of ripened steaks, double lamb chops, kidneys, and beer by the pitcher. They insisted on dance orchestras instead of brassy German bands. The life of the party at a beefsteak used to be the man who let out the most ecstatic grunts, drank the most beer, ate the most steak, and got the most grease on his ears, but women do not esteem a glutton, and at a contemporary beefsteak it is unusual for a man to do away with more than six pounds of meat and thirty glasses of beer. Until around 1920, beefsteak etiquette was rigid. Knives, forks, napkins, and tablecloths never had been permitted; a man was supposed to eat with his hands.

When beefsteaks became bisexual, the etiquette changed. For generations men had worn their second-best suits because of the inevitability of grease spots; tuxedos and women appeared simultaneously. Most beefsteaks degenerated into polite banquets at which open-face sandwiches of grilled steak happened to be the principal dish. However, despite the frills introduced by women, two schools of traditional steak-dinner devotees still flourish. They may conveniently be called the East Side and West Side schools. They disagree over matters of menu and etiquette, and both claim that their beefsteaks are the more classical or old-fashioned.

Action Orientation (Eazy), Friday, 11 December 2009 17:50 (4 years ago) Permalink

bisexual beefsteaks, huh

elmo leonard (elmo argonaut), Friday, 11 December 2009 17:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

I suppose this wasn't enough to set off your satire-ometer:

at a contemporary beefsteak it is unusual for a man to do away with more than six pounds of meat and thirty glasses of beer.

wtf?!? just randomly started crying! (HI DERE), Friday, 11 December 2009 18:04 (4 years ago) Permalink

tbh when the dicks get to swingin' it's hard to distinguish satire from self-parody sometimes

elmo leonard (elmo argonaut), Friday, 11 December 2009 18:08 (4 years ago) Permalink

I don't think the entire thing is full-on satire but it certainly doesn't seem like something that wants to be taken seriously; it looks like it's dressing up commentary re: East Side and West Side steak cooking methods in "rawr we were real men then" humor.

wtf?!? just randomly started crying! (HI DERE), Friday, 11 December 2009 18:10 (4 years ago) Permalink

Well, it was written in 1939 about the beefsteaks of the 1920s (taken from this page on beefsteaks, but also from Mitchell's Up in the Old Hotel. I don't think of it as satire, as much as reporting on the guys who missed the old beefsteaks of yore.

Action Orientation (Eazy), Friday, 11 December 2009 18:16 (4 years ago) Permalink

haha okay, that does put something of a different context on it

wtf?!? just randomly started crying! (HI DERE), Friday, 11 December 2009 18:18 (4 years ago) Permalink

"remember the days before beefsteak went ac/dc?"

wtf?!? just randomly started crying! (HI DERE), Friday, 11 December 2009 18:19 (4 years ago) Permalink

old beefsteaks of yore = beef jerky

eight woofers in the trunk sb'n down the block (M@tt He1ges0n), Friday, 11 December 2009 18:20 (4 years ago) Permalink

"remember the days before all the women made us stop eating pemmican?"

wtf?!? just randomly started crying! (HI DERE), Friday, 11 December 2009 18:23 (4 years ago) Permalink

there's a logic going on in that paragraph that basically means that sex with a woman is kind of... gay.

goole, Friday, 11 December 2009 19:24 (4 years ago) Permalink

You mean eating with a woman.

wtf?!? just randomly started crying! (HI DERE), Friday, 11 December 2009 19:29 (4 years ago) Permalink

He certainly does.

james cameron gargameled my boner for life (Pancakes Hackman), Friday, 11 December 2009 19:34 (4 years ago) Permalink

i read that excerpt as satirical. it satirizes both the crudity of manly men in days gone by, and also (in its tone) the nostalgia for a retrospectively exaggerated version of such. quote similar to the contemporary ads mentioned in this thread.

a dimension that can only be accessed through self-immolation (contenderizer), Friday, 11 December 2009 22:54 (4 years ago) Permalink

"quite similar..."

a dimension that can only be accessed through self-immolation (contenderizer), Friday, 11 December 2009 22:54 (4 years ago) Permalink

most cars come with instruction manuals that tell you how to change the tire

― wtf?!? just randomly started crying! (HI DERE), Thursday, December 10, 2009 12:41 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i cannot keep up with this thread, but ^^^^^

i am picking tire-changing arbitrarily but not knowing how to do this is on some next-level "I just don't GET math" art of pretend helplessness shit. put the jack under the car, jack it, use the iron to loosen the nuts, pull the wheel off, put the spare on, tighten the nuts, lower the car. this is a skill that should be filed under ADULT CAR USER, not MAN. if you don't drive, or have never gotten a flat, fine. or if you have and the weather was shitty or something. but if you've gotten a flat tire, and had the requisite kit with you, and the weather was nice, and the nuts came off easily (sometimes they don't and that sucks), and you STILL called a tow truck, then you are just a lazy person. the end.

anyway, like elmo said way upthread, most of the skills i'm interested in acquiring these days are horrifyingly feminine, and i always, always wear an apron while cooking.

being being kiss-ass fake nice (gbx), Friday, 11 December 2009 23:33 (4 years ago) Permalink

I've changed more than my fair share of flats in my life, but I can 100% see how people could be intimidated by the process and just not want to bother. Sometimes the instructions are incredibly vague about where to properly place the jack and I can see someone not wanting to take the chance to try to jack it incorrectly and fuck something up or worse!

& other try hard shitfests (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Friday, 11 December 2009 23:38 (4 years ago) Permalink

fukken dr. homo over here

Lamp, Friday, 11 December 2009 23:38 (4 years ago) Permalink

I've changed more than my fair share of flats in my life, but I can 100% see how people could be intimidated by the process and just not want to bother. Sometimes the instructions are incredibly vague about where to properly place the jack and I can see someone not wanting to take the chance to try to jack it incorrectly and fuck something up or worse!

― & other try hard shitfests (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Friday, December 11, 2009 5:38 PM (32 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i don't buy this, tbh. figure it out. if you can write a paper with yr eyes closed or w/e, then you can stare at some instructions and think rationally about how to do something in the actual, physical world. jacking something incorrectly can't really fuck things up THAT much. if it's a weenie jack that comes with the car, then the worst that'll happen is that the car will suddenly drop a few inches when the jack tips over. oh noes.

being being kiss-ass fake nice (gbx), Friday, 11 December 2009 23:42 (4 years ago) Permalink

and hey lamp y dont U go somewhere and stfu

being being kiss-ass fake nice (gbx), Friday, 11 December 2009 23:42 (4 years ago) Permalink

XXpost. You loosen the nuts before you jack it up by the way. Otherwise it might fall off the jack. Ditto for tightening.

everything, Friday, 11 December 2009 23:43 (4 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, but remember that someone stranded on the side of a busy expressway with a flat tire while running late for something important is certainly not in the most appropriate frame of mind for clear thinking. I mean, I agree with you in that it is an important (and relatively easy) skill to learn, but at the same time I can completely see why people are intimidated by it!

& other try hard shitfests (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Friday, 11 December 2009 23:44 (4 years ago) Permalink

i have made that mistake before!

xp

being being kiss-ass fake nice (gbx), Friday, 11 December 2009 23:44 (4 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, but remember that someone stranded on the side of a busy expressway with a flat tire while running late for something important is certainly not in the most appropriate frame of mind for clear thinking. I mean, I agree with you in that it is an important (and relatively easy) skill to learn, but at the same time I can completely see why people are intimidated by it!

YEEESS, this is why you should maybe KNOW HOW before it happens to you! As I/we were saying. That's why it's good to know how to do things just because, sometimes.

WHY DON'T YOU JUST LICK THE BUS DIRECTLY (Laurel), Friday, 11 December 2009 23:47 (4 years ago) Permalink

yeah, i guess, and i am being an internet hardman about something pretty trivial, but still. sometimes this attitude ("willed helplessness" we'll say) pushes my dang buttons. i am in no way in favor of heavily gendered skillsets or w/e, but ffs ppl pounding a nail or painting your walls or installing a driver is NOT DIFFICULT. or, rather, learning how to do that thing is not difficult.

xp

being being kiss-ass fake nice (gbx), Friday, 11 December 2009 23:48 (4 years ago) Permalink

this is a skill that should be filed under ADULT CAR USER, not MAN.

Right, and more or less true across the board. Like for most skills apart from what you do with your own genitalia I don't really see much sense or use in filing them under masculine/feminine. Useful things=useful.

whoa buncha xposts, yea w/ya re: willful helplessness. Lotsa things aren't as scary as they seem.

retrovaporized nebulizer (╓abies), Friday, 11 December 2009 23:52 (4 years ago) Permalink

Just out of curiosity, how did you people who know how to change a tire learn?

Nuyorican oatmeal (jaymc), Friday, 11 December 2009 23:55 (4 years ago) Permalink

I learned by getting a flat out in the middle of nowhere at 11:30 PM in the days before a cell phone. It was a sloppy attempt, but I got it done. Since then its just been refining the process.

& other try hard shitfests (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Friday, 11 December 2009 23:58 (4 years ago) Permalink

my friends dad taught us one time when he was driving us somewhere and blew a tire - it really is p simple

and hey lamp y dont U go somewhere and stfu

do u want 2 fite??????

Lamp, Friday, 11 December 2009 23:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

use the iron to loosen the nuts,

See, I don't even know what either of these things are.

Nuyorican oatmeal (jaymc), Friday, 11 December 2009 23:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

I've never had to change a tire but, for example when something would break or go haywire on my guitar, it's like okay lets get an allen wrench and just...you use your small semblance of wits and it gets done.

retrovaporized nebulizer (╓abies), Saturday, 12 December 2009 00:01 (4 years ago) Permalink

Well, yeah. I'm OK with that sort of stuff, too. I change lightbulbs, hang picture frames, etc.

Nuyorican oatmeal (jaymc), Saturday, 12 December 2009 00:03 (4 years ago) Permalink

my dad showed me how to change a flat a long time ago. but there has always been some weirdness when i've actually gotten flats, like the time (surprise!) it turned out my spare was flat too

call all destroyer, Saturday, 12 December 2009 00:04 (4 years ago) Permalink

BREAKIN DOWN WALLS HERE

retrovaporized nebulizer (╓abies), Saturday, 12 December 2009 00:11 (4 years ago) Permalink

that was informative! i did not know

LA CANCION MAS PRETENCIOSA DEL MUNDO... (The Reverend), Saturday, 12 December 2009 00:18 (4 years ago) Permalink

I guess I just wonder sometimes if the people who are all "suck it up" about practical stuff like this had parents who emphasized it. Because mine never really did, and it's not like I would've picked it up elsewhere (never even had to take shop class in junior high, since I was in band). I mean, I don't want to make excuses or anything, but I really do feel out of my element sometimes when it comes to certain fix-it skills, just because my experience is so minuscule.

Nuyorican oatmeal (jaymc), Saturday, 12 December 2009 00:23 (4 years ago) Permalink

I totally understand the fear of it, but I mean, I tried my damndest in shop class and got a C. I can hardly crack eggs without getting bits of shell in them. If I can do it anyone can.

retrovaporized nebulizer (╓abies), Saturday, 12 December 2009 00:27 (4 years ago) Permalink

jaymc-- I learned because I got a flat. I made it home, pulled out the kit that came withu car read the manual and did it.

being being kiss-ass fake nice (gbx), Saturday, 12 December 2009 00:33 (4 years ago) Permalink

Fair enough.

Nuyorican oatmeal (jaymc), Saturday, 12 December 2009 00:40 (4 years ago) Permalink

putting the male gaze right there in the commercial, i think. MEN OF STATURE (figuratively but also literally in these ads) see you as an ineffectual boy, boy, in your stupid ryan howard hats. put down the xbox, put on a suit or something and get a cadillac like a grownup:

slugbuggy, Saturday, 12 December 2009 18:00 (4 years ago) Permalink

welcome to the world of gentlemen gentlemen

ice cr?m, Saturday, 12 December 2009 18:31 (4 years ago) Permalink

dude doesn't know this but the other three are hyundai owners--not gentlemen in the slightest

call all destroyer, Saturday, 12 December 2009 18:37 (4 years ago) Permalink

thats ok cause the old guys are driving a stolen cadillac and theyve just massacred everyone in the diner

ice cr?m, Saturday, 12 December 2009 18:51 (4 years ago) Permalink

during the world War II / Cold War era, the stakes were such that people just HAD to have a certain toughness that isn't necessary today

Haven't made my way through the whole thread yet to see if this is expanded upon, but this is something I've given a lot of thought to. The idea of being rough and rugged and manly made sense when there was utility to it, when it could be used in the service of some opposing force. But, c'mon. Most people (in the US, at least) lead pretty damn cush lives. Every time I see some bro striking a hardman pose walking through, say, Lincoln Park, I can't help but feel really sorry for the dude. Overt machismo strikes me as a generally outmoded and obsolete state of being unless you live in some crime-ridden neighborhood or you're in the military or something.

Zoo Snickers (Deric W. Haircare), Saturday, 12 December 2009 20:36 (4 years ago) Permalink

Oh, and another thing while I'm on the subject, and which may go hand-in-hand with the rootless and senseless masochism of today: where once you may have had a patronizing style of misogyny that infantalized women, today you have a burgeoning sadistic misogyny which objectifies women (see: most porn, which seems to be having an increasingly and frighteningly huge effect on sexual mores across the board these days).

Zoo Snickers (Deric W. Haircare), Saturday, 12 December 2009 20:49 (4 years ago) Permalink

Link is NSFW, but they have full lad mags from the 40s - 70s here:

http://www.vintagegirliemags.com

It's amusing to see how many of them resemble the same thing found in comic books years later

kingfish, Tuesday, 15 December 2009 20:34 (4 years ago) Permalink

never even had to take shop class in junior high, since I was in band

how did this even make sense

Restless Genital Syndrome (HI DERE), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 20:37 (4 years ago) Permalink

like that is the most perplexing school board decision I have ever seen

Restless Genital Syndrome (HI DERE), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 20:40 (4 years ago) Permalink

some schools exempt you from other requirements for doing band!

harbl, Tuesday, 15 December 2009 20:40 (4 years ago) Permalink

not that weird imo. kids in accelerated science skipped shop and home ec in my school.

harbl, Tuesday, 15 December 2009 20:41 (4 years ago) Permalink

I guess I just wonder sometimes if the people who are all "suck it up" about practical stuff like this had parents who emphasized it.

My dad never did, but when i had to do work around the house for him, it was done the right way or i would hear about it, and i think this helped a lot?

that sex version of "blue thunder." (Mr. Que), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 20:41 (4 years ago) Permalink

my dad didn't emphasize it that much but he knows how to do a lot of stuff & is curious about things so it rubbed off. not on my brother though, he has no clue how to change a tire, i'm sure.

harbl, Tuesday, 15 December 2009 20:43 (4 years ago) Permalink

i had to *beg* my dad to teach me how to change oil though ^_^

harbl, Tuesday, 15 December 2009 20:43 (4 years ago) Permalink

got my first f in metal shop

super sexy psycho fantasy world (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 20:43 (4 years ago) Permalink

yeah my dad is totally like that too--except he hates working with others so

that sex version of "blue thunder." (Mr. Que), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 20:43 (4 years ago) Permalink

I made a box wrong

super sexy psycho fantasy world (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 20:43 (4 years ago) Permalink

i got a B probably in shop

i got a C in home ec, mostly because i fucked up this sewing project (a stuffed animal) pretty bad

that sex version of "blue thunder." (Mr. Que), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 20:44 (4 years ago) Permalink

i loved shop, i wish we had it every year. but i could NOT sew. my teacher made fun of me. who cares though, her class was useless and dumb

harbl, Tuesday, 15 December 2009 20:45 (4 years ago) Permalink

some schools exempt you from other requirements for doing band!

But usually those requirements are somewhat analogous to the skill set band would satisfy (like, for example, choir or a basic music class, or an art class).

In 8th grade, my school district made you take a full year of phy ed for a full year, split semesters of industrial arts and home ec, and a music/arts class that could include be band and/or choir. You didn't get the option to start skipping any of these classes until high school, and even there you had to take phy ed freshman year and at least one class out of the other general areas.

Restless Genital Syndrome (HI DERE), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 20:45 (4 years ago) Permalink

she was this round lady with a perm. my stitches were too huge so i had little pockets and she said "what is this? a hidey-hole?" i will never forget. xpost

harbl, Tuesday, 15 December 2009 20:45 (4 years ago) Permalink

oh she totally made fun of me. i don't care, though. if i need to learn how to sew i will get a book

that sex version of "blue thunder." (Mr. Que), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 20:46 (4 years ago) Permalink

i can knit now

harbl, Tuesday, 15 December 2009 20:46 (4 years ago) Permalink

yeah i mean my capacity for concentration on tiny skilled tasks has increased a lot since those days

that sex version of "blue thunder." (Mr. Que), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 20:47 (4 years ago) Permalink

my dad was way handy and super into fixing up cars and stuff like that, and so were my two older brothers, but i never had the least bit of interest in anything like that as a kid. (also, weirdly, my dad and brothers were never into sports, but i was).

nowadays i have more of an appreciation for that stuff, both for sheer practical value as well as thinking that it might be fun to tinker around with stuff or fuck around with home improvement projects...but when it comes down to it, i still don't have the requisite desire to take up those sorts of activities in any substantive manner

dell (del), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 20:47 (4 years ago) Permalink

I made a gigantic leather keychain in 8th grade shop that I used through college and still have in a drawer. I also wore the sweatpants I made in 8th grade shop up into college because I had run out of fabric on them so three panels were navy blue and the back left panel was white and I thought they were awesome.

Restless Genital Syndrome (HI DERE), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 20:47 (4 years ago) Permalink

My school district made no bones about putting vocational classes in the poorest schools - there wasn't even the option of taking shop (or home ec or metal shop or anything else) in my high school.

Now a friend is teaching in one of those schools and can't get $500 from the district to start a lit mag for her creative writing and English students.

smashing aspirant (milo z), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 20:48 (4 years ago) Permalink

Dan, in HS:

WHY DON'T YOU JUST LICK THE BUS DIRECTLY (Laurel), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 20:50 (4 years ago) Permalink

Just out of curiosity, how did you people who know how to change a tire learn?

my dad showed me once or twice when the family car had a flat. i've never changed a tire on my own though.

The Détourn of the Depressed (get bent), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 20:51 (4 years ago) Permalink

My uncle showed me how to change a car tire when I got a flat. I've done it once since then. The satisfaction of being like "daaaamn I changed that tire good a ding-dang-doo" was outweighed by how much of a pain in the ass it is to do. Changing a bike tire OTOH is highly satisfying (and an irritatingly frequent necessity in this land of goatheads).

just a moonful of sugar (Abbott), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 20:57 (4 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, if you did band in junior high, then you just did band all year. If not, then you had a quarter each of art, music, home ec, and shop.

but when i had to do work around the house for him

What does this mean? I had basic chores like cleaning bathrooms, vacuuming, etc.

Btw, I was thinking about this thread this morning because my car died over the weekend and so this morning I called to get it towed to the shop. On the phone, the mechanic said, "Do me a favor, open the hood on your car so the tow-truck driver knows which car is yours." I said sure, went out to the car, pulled the ring below the emergency brake that's supposed to pop the hood, heard a pop, and then went around to lift it up ... except I couldn't figure out where I was supposed to lift. Nothing seemed to be budging. Was it frozen shut? Was there some latch I had to unfasten? I didn't know. So I just didn't do anything about it, and I stood outside the car and waved to the tow truck when it approached. For a while, I still feared that the tow-truck guy was going to ask me to lift the hood and I'd be all embarrassed, but it didn't happen.

Nuyorican oatmeal (jaymc), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 20:57 (4 years ago) Permalink

it's interesting, my mom is old-fashioned and needs dad to do all the stereotypically manly-man stuff, but my parents didn't raise me with a "men do THIS, women do THIS, women don't do THIS" attitude. i learned all that gender expectation stuff from television and well-meaning educators.

The Détourn of the Depressed (get bent), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 20:57 (4 years ago) Permalink

ha yeah there's a little lever under the hood you have to find!

harbl, Tuesday, 15 December 2009 20:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

What does this mean? I had basic chores like cleaning bathrooms, vacuuming, etc.

i had to clean bathrooms and stuff but that was for my Mom. i mean like yard work, mowing the lawn, picking up brush, clipping hedges, weeding.

did you try running your hand under the hood?

that sex version of "blue thunder." (Mr. Que), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 20:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

jaymc have you really never opened the hood of your car? that is like. . . staggering to me

that sex version of "blue thunder." (Mr. Que), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:00 (4 years ago) Permalink

xxp I seemed to recall that was the case, but this time the hood wasn't even propped open an inch for me to find it.

Nuyorican oatmeal (jaymc), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:01 (4 years ago) Permalink

i mean like yard work, mowing the lawn, picking up brush, clipping hedges, weeding.

Oh, I just mowed the lawn.

Nuyorican oatmeal (jaymc), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:01 (4 years ago) Permalink

It is lame of me to say, but it is sometimes advantageous for me that I am a woman & that car fixing is such a gendered activity. When I had a car, if it ever quit working in the middle of the road, I just had to stand outside the car & look sad & v quickly some guy would help push it to the side of the road, jump start it, etc. Sometimes I will see guys with cars that have quit working in traffic & I realize they just have to struggle with it without quick help.

just a moonful of sugar (Abbott), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:01 (4 years ago) Permalink

how do you put in new wiper fluid and check oil? or do you just...not do it

harbl, Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:01 (4 years ago) Permalink

^^^^^

that sex version of "blue thunder." (Mr. Que), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:02 (4 years ago) Permalink

jaymc have you really never opened the hood of your car? that is like. . . staggering to me

I'm pretty sure I have. But not often enough to know what the issue was this time.

Nuyorican oatmeal (jaymc), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:02 (4 years ago) Permalink

how do you put in new wiper fluid and check oil? or do you just...not do it

That's what Jiffy Lube is for.

Nuyorican oatmeal (jaymc), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:03 (4 years ago) Permalink

dude, you should know how to open the hood of your car.

that sex version of "blue thunder." (Mr. Que), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:04 (4 years ago) Permalink

wow, dude

Restless Genital Syndrome (HI DERE), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:04 (4 years ago) Permalink

i got a new car a month or two ago. i popped the hood so a) if i had to pop it in the situation like you described, i'd have some idea how it worked on that car, and wouldn't embarrass myself, and b) so i knew vaguely where the washer fluid nozzle was, so i wouldn't freeze my ass off looking for it in the winter when the juice ran out, as is likely to happen.

goole, Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:05 (4 years ago) Permalink

dude, you should know how to open the hood of your car.

Hey, I thought I did know. Maybe if you were there with me this morning, you could've told me what I was doing wrong.

Nuyorican oatmeal (jaymc), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:05 (4 years ago) Permalink

yes that is a jpg from "daddytypes.com"

goole, Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:06 (4 years ago) Permalink

Nothing seemed to be budging. Was it frozen shut? Was there some latch I had to unfasten? I didn't know. So I just didn't do anything about it, and I stood outside the car and waved to the tow truck when it approached.

The bolded part is what you were doing wrong? I'm not trying to pick on you, but giving up here seems like your first misstep.

that sex version of "blue thunder." (Mr. Que), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:06 (4 years ago) Permalink

there's probably a brief section in your owner's manual about how to open the hood

that sex version of "blue thunder." (Mr. Que), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:07 (4 years ago) Permalink

also gas goes in the gas tank, and the things you drive on are called wheels

that sex version of "blue thunder." (Mr. Que), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:07 (4 years ago) Permalink

^^sorry

that sex version of "blue thunder." (Mr. Que), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:07 (4 years ago) Permalink

It is lame of me to say, but it is sometimes advantageous for me that I am a woman & that car fixing is such a gendered activity. When I had a car, if it ever quit working in the middle of the road, I just had to stand outside the car & look sad & v quickly some guy would help push it to the side of the road, jump start it, etc. Sometimes I will see guys with cars that have quit working in traffic & I realize they just have to struggle with it without quick help.

i don't drive but i've seen enough horror movies and police procedurals to know that "female alone with broken-down car" is a total creep magnet. i would be terrified to accept help from a man who offered.

The Détourn of the Depressed (get bent), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:07 (4 years ago) Permalink

when it's cold, or if the car is getting old, the hood won't "jump" up when you pull the release. you might have to get your fingers under there and pull it up to have enough room to feel around for the latch.

goole, Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:08 (4 years ago) Permalink

"so this is a car, huh?"

dell (del), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:09 (4 years ago) Permalink

when it's cold, or if the car is getting old, the hood won't "jump" up when you pull the release. you might have to get your fingers under there and pull it up to have enough room to feel around for the latch.

that's what SHE said

The Détourn of the Depressed (get bent), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:09 (4 years ago) Permalink

"The Hood Won't Jump (feat. Ice Cube)"

Action Orientation (Eazy), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:10 (4 years ago) Permalink

xxpost
also sometimes you have to grease the hood and massage it some in order to get it to "jump" up

dell (del), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:10 (4 years ago) Permalink

get bent it was always in full daylight & in busy traffic – lots of onlookers means maybe less likelihood of doing a crime + mad desire to quickly end the embarrassing situation of having your car stalled out in the middle of a busy road. I wld also imagine their motive was to stop an irritating block in traffic.

just a moonful of sugar (Abbott), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:11 (4 years ago) Permalink

Basically in the Midwest if you went into labor and needed to go to the hospital you could just stand in the road and the next person who passed would probably drop everything they were doing to drive you there. And the hospital is probably 30 miles away, so that's not a small deal.

WHY DON'T YOU JUST LICK THE BUS DIRECTLY (Laurel), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:12 (4 years ago) Permalink

The bolded part is what you were doing wrong? I'm not trying to pick on you, but giving up here seems like your first misstep.

OK, look: I went out, ran my hands under the hood, tried to pull it up, no dice. I went back in the car, pulled on the ring again (this time harder), then went back out and tried again. My fingers got pinched under the grill. I put gloves on and tried again. Nothing. I went back in the car, pulled on the ring again (even harder and in multiple directions). I went back out, looked to see if there was someplace else on the edge of the hood that it was meant to be lifted from. I couldn't identify one. Meanwhile, it was fucking freezing outside, so I went back in the car and waited and tried to figure out what to do. I then reasoned that I didn't *really* need to lift the hood because I could just wait for the tow-truck guy to call and then stand outside to wave to him as he approached. So that's what I did. You're right, though: I probably should've consulted the owner's manual. That didn't occur to me. I'll do that next time.

Nuyorican oatmeal (jaymc), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:13 (4 years ago) Permalink

ok, cool. sorry about yr car dude--car stuff sucks!

that sex version of "blue thunder." (Mr. Que), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:16 (4 years ago) Permalink

jaymc staying remarkably civil

call all destroyer, Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:16 (4 years ago) Permalink

i think it's remarkable that he bothered to justify himself so much

dell (del), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:19 (4 years ago) Permalink

we should prob start calling him names now

ice cr?m, Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:20 (4 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, I know, most of my posts on this thread are just cruising for it, which is why I said a few days ago that I probably shouldn't be posting here at all. :/

Nuyorican oatmeal (jaymc), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:22 (4 years ago) Permalink

if it makes you feel any better, i'm really bad at registering my car and paying fees and getting tags and shit because my dad always did it for me and i never learned growing up

that sex version of "blue thunder." (Mr. Que), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:23 (4 years ago) Permalink

^^^ my registration is 4 months overdue now

standing on the verge of getting it rong (m bison), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:24 (4 years ago) Permalink

I'm very good at registration but terrible at inspection. When we got our car, our inspection sticker was for June; it is currently for December.

Restless Genital Syndrome (HI DERE), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:25 (4 years ago) Permalink

if it makes you feel any better, i'm really bad at registering my car and paying fees and getting tags and shit because my dad always did it for me and i never learned growing up

i'm this way with figuring out my taxes -- my dad's a financial whiz + way better at math than i am.

The Détourn of the Depressed (get bent), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:25 (4 years ago) Permalink

btw any tx cops read this, you can find me at 123 fake st. next to the taco cabana

standing on the verge of getting it rong (m bison), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:25 (4 years ago) Permalink

oh it is inspection for me, not registration.

standing on the verge of getting it rong (m bison), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:26 (4 years ago) Permalink

at the combination pizza shack and taco cabana

Restless Genital Syndrome (HI DERE), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:26 (4 years ago) Permalink

my buddy at work had a long-expired reg and wound up paying about $1000 bucks in towing, tickets, and registry fees while losing the better part of a week trying to get his car un-impounded.

call all destroyer, Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:26 (4 years ago) Permalink

terrible at inspection

thank you jesse ventura!

goole, Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:27 (4 years ago) Permalink

It is lame of me to say, but it is sometimes advantageous for me that I am a woman & that car fixing is such a gendered activity.
--just a moonful of sugar (Abbott)

...it is similarly advantageous to shifty mechanics.

being being kiss-ass fake nice (gbx), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:27 (4 years ago) Permalink

what's funny is both of my siblings are bad at it for the same reason--we blame Dad. all of us have been pulled over for it.

that sex version of "blue thunder." (Mr. Que), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:27 (4 years ago) Permalink

i'm good at inspection because the meter maids will viciously ticket me once it's overdue.

call all destroyer, Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:27 (4 years ago) Permalink

oh shit I need a new license AND new tabs

being being kiss-ass fake nice (gbx), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:28 (4 years ago) Permalink

oh god, one year I had something like $10 in outstanding excise tax because I missed the deadline and the associated penalty by the time I paid it, and was therefore denied renewing my registration and basically had to spend two days waiting in lines to get the whole thing cleared up

Restless Genital Syndrome (HI DERE), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:29 (4 years ago) Permalink

for the first few years i owned a car, i would just *totally* forget that things had to be renewed every year until i got enough tickets (and LOL got pulled over enough) until it sunk in

that sex version of "blue thunder." (Mr. Que), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:29 (4 years ago) Permalink

I am the worst car owner. it just sits there

being being kiss-ass fake nice (gbx), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:30 (4 years ago) Permalink

I didn't know you even HAD a car.

WHY DON'T YOU JUST LICK THE BUS DIRECTLY (Laurel), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:32 (4 years ago) Permalink

is it unmanly 2 say cars are the worst idea for getting ppl around and that if i owned a flamethrower or missile launcher i would park in an empty lot and go to town on my car?

i'm assuming that i'd be wealthy enough for an alternative to my car if i owned a flamethrower or missile launcher.

standing on the verge of getting it rong (m bison), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:33 (4 years ago) Permalink

xp You seem so much more masculine suddenly, why is that.

WHY DON'T YOU JUST LICK THE BUS DIRECTLY (Laurel), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:33 (4 years ago) Permalink

phermones

being being kiss-ass fake nice (gbx), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:34 (4 years ago) Permalink

also m bison u r otm

being being kiss-ass fake nice (gbx), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:35 (4 years ago) Permalink

i think it's 100% manly thing to say

that sex version of "blue thunder." (Mr. Que), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:35 (4 years ago) Permalink

I mean: flamethrowers!

being being kiss-ass fake nice (gbx), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:36 (4 years ago) Permalink

fuck cars

max, Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:39 (4 years ago) Permalink

living in nyc makes me never want to ever own a car again ever

max, Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:39 (4 years ago) Permalink

pop the trunk open shoot a missile into it

being being kiss-ass fake nice (gbx), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:40 (4 years ago) Permalink

pop the hood, turn on the flamethrower, ride a pterodactyl to work while eating raw meat

that sex version of "blue thunder." (Mr. Que), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:41 (4 years ago) Permalink

while wearing dockers and holding a door open for an old lady

standing on the verge of getting it rong (m bison), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:42 (4 years ago) Permalink

living in nyc makes me never want to ever own a car again ever

― max

being in l.a. makes me feel the same way basically

you are wrong I'm bone thugs in harmon (omar little), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:43 (4 years ago) Permalink

living in nyc makes me never want to ever own a car again ever

― max, Tuesday, December 15, 2009 4:39 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

^ also people will bring food to you in yr home so

ice cr?m, Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:44 (4 years ago) Permalink

Once when my car wasn't where I remembered it being, my first instict was "Oh good it's probably been stolen!" That would have been too easy though.

lou reed scott walker monks niagra (chinavision!), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:46 (4 years ago) Permalink

Cars: no fun to own. But kinda fun to drive!

lou reed scott walker monks niagra (chinavision!), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:46 (4 years ago) Permalink

real men raw meat

dell (del), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:46 (4 years ago) Permalink

It's time to introduce poker superstar Gus Hansen into this discussion.

The Hood Won't Jump (Eazy), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:49 (4 years ago) Permalink

hilarious dome

ice cr?m, Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:50 (4 years ago) Permalink

now that we've been introduced, can i keep ignoring him for the rest of my lyfe?

standing on the verge of getting it rong (m bison), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:50 (4 years ago) Permalink

Thank you Gus, for that whole visual ensemble, because it saves me the 30 seconds that I'd have to spend talking to you to realise you're a complete tosser.

HUH? not appropriate (snoball), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:51 (4 years ago) Permalink

more like full tit poker

standing on the verge of getting it rong (m bison), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:53 (4 years ago) Permalink

needs goatee

ice cr?m, Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:53 (4 years ago) Permalink

would not smash or play poker with

that sex version of "blue thunder." (Mr. Que), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:54 (4 years ago) Permalink

he's got a jamie foxx-in-miami vice hairline

you are wrong I'm bone thugs in harmon (omar little), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:54 (4 years ago) Permalink

Restless Genital Syndrome (HI DERE), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:55 (4 years ago) Permalink

professional poker players are disgusting savages

you are wrong I'm bone thugs in harmon (omar little), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 21:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

Better Gus than Josh Arieh.

The Hood Won't Jump (Eazy), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 22:03 (4 years ago) Permalink

2 degrees of separation away from this dude (his sister was in my wife's dorm)

Restless Genital Syndrome (HI DERE), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 22:04 (4 years ago) Permalink

professional poker players are disgusting savages

why does the game of poker attract such douchebags? is it the whole "vegas baby" high roller thing? i would blame jon favreau but i know it goes back to some rack pat shit.

The Détourn of the Depressed (get bent), Wednesday, 16 December 2009 08:07 (4 years ago) Permalink

Goes back to them being rambling, gambling guys.

The Hood Won't Jump (Eazy), Wednesday, 16 December 2009 21:36 (4 years ago) Permalink

also the notion of playing cards for a living will tend to attract high-level douche talent

standing on the verge of getting it rong (m bison), Wednesday, 16 December 2009 21:46 (4 years ago) Permalink

4 months pass...

am0n, Sunday, 2 May 2010 02:08 (4 years ago) Permalink

hoping those commercials generate a new interest in masculine skirt wearing and purses

all my parks got feathers and wood, in my hood we call them ducks (m bison), Sunday, 2 May 2010 03:25 (4 years ago) Permalink

The idea that not getting Miller Lite is somehow a punishment!

This is four-dimensional art; the 4th dimension is incredibly powerful. (Abbott), Sunday, 2 May 2010 03:32 (4 years ago) Permalink

the bartender's eyes are dewy with disdain

all my parks got feathers and wood, in my hood we call them ducks (m bison), Sunday, 2 May 2010 03:34 (4 years ago) Permalink

ws all these miller light drinking dudes

midcentury Modern (Lamp), Sunday, 2 May 2010 03:51 (4 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

maybe it's because you're a tedious creep! (dyao), Monday, 21 June 2010 10:03 (4 years ago) Permalink

verdict: pretty good, but I dunno why a woman couldn't also eat all these dark chocolate covered pretzels ticks

maybe it's because you're a tedious creep! (dyao), Monday, 21 June 2010 10:04 (4 years ago) Permalink

lol

The Reverend, Monday, 21 June 2010 10:06 (4 years ago) Permalink

That still looks girly. Needs a truck on it, imo.

kkvgz, Monday, 21 June 2010 11:48 (4 years ago) Permalink

a truck that turns into a robot

Remember when Mr Banhart was a replicant? (darraghmac), Monday, 21 June 2010 11:49 (4 years ago) Permalink

a truck that turns into a robot with tits

kkvgz, Monday, 21 June 2010 11:50 (4 years ago) Permalink

sounds like a pretty genderqueer truck

plax (ico), Monday, 21 June 2010 11:51 (4 years ago) Permalink

ugh girls no way

Remember when Mr Banhart was a replicant? (darraghmac), Monday, 21 June 2010 11:51 (4 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, nvrmnd.

A truck that turns into a robot that is also a grill

kkvgz, Monday, 21 June 2010 11:52 (4 years ago) Permalink

to grill your bitter chocolate pretzel sticks on right

crüt it out (dyao), Monday, 21 June 2010 11:53 (4 years ago) Permalink

NO!

Men don't eat dark chocolate! Men eat meat! The pretzel sticks are just to lure women who we will set on fire to grill our meat on!

kkvgz, Monday, 21 June 2010 11:56 (4 years ago) Permalink

this chocolate is bitter because it contains the tears of my enemies whom I've vanquished in combat

crüt it out (dyao), Monday, 21 June 2010 11:57 (4 years ago) Permalink

dudes love putting long things in their mouths

plax (ico), Monday, 21 June 2010 11:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

Tears are gay. You were fighting a bunch of gay dudes? What are you - queer or something?

kkvgz, Monday, 21 June 2010 12:00 (4 years ago) Permalink

the day they let that makeup wearing pussyboy alex reid into the ultimate fighting ring was a black day for real men imo

Remember when Mr Banhart was a replicant? (darraghmac), Monday, 21 June 2010 12:02 (4 years ago) Permalink

tbh imo all marketing of masculinity is really abt male-male homosocial desire but maybe in a way that is not specifically "gay" so

plax (ico), Monday, 21 June 2010 12:04 (4 years ago) Permalink

yeah i got lots of male-male homosocial desire, but i tend to descripe it more as 'fancy a pint after footy' for fear of putting guys off

Remember when Mr Banhart was a replicant? (darraghmac), Monday, 21 June 2010 13:08 (4 years ago) Permalink

kinky

plax (ico), Monday, 21 June 2010 17:39 (4 years ago) Permalink

Why? Why? Why? ...FOR GOD'S SAKE, THINK OF THE CHILDREN!

Aimless, Monday, 21 June 2010 17:46 (4 years ago) Permalink

tbh imo all marketing of masculinity is really abt male-male homosocial desire but maybe in a way that is not specifically "gay" so

a lot of it is, true. Like if you were phrasing it in terms of feminist film theory (the school that appropriated from Lacan & Freud), you could say that not only women are subject to the male gaze, but men are as well.

sarahel, Monday, 21 June 2010 17:49 (4 years ago) Permalink

i saw this crappy documentary abt "straight-acting gays" which was kinda gross in its smug approval that sporty bear-ey homos are in some way bucking some rigid idea of what gayness is (it was pretty gross imo). But one guy said something that really stuck w/ me which was "how can i be the thing that I desire." I mean in a crisis of masculinity age I guess its prolly easier for gays to explore and represent their homosocial desire bc its not problematic to collapse the boundary b/w the social and sexual, but, you know, I feel for straight guys bc post crisis of masculinity or whatever they have to find some way of enjoying and representing their male directed desire that doesnt make them look like a fag.

plax (ico), Monday, 21 June 2010 17:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

it is interesting what connotes "looking like a fag" that isn't one of the obvious things, like taking pleasure in having a dick in your mouth.

sarahel, Monday, 21 June 2010 18:06 (4 years ago) Permalink

I'm sure that "looking like a fag" has multifarious and purely coincidental roots in the complications of being closeted. The signals couldn't be too obvious, or straights would suss you out, but couldn't be too subtle, or you'd never hook up. But whatever signals were settled on, they were sure to be somewhat arbitrary.

Aimless, Monday, 21 June 2010 18:18 (4 years ago) Permalink

I'm confused by what plax said, but I think I need to read it a few more times to get it.

bamcquern, Monday, 21 June 2010 18:29 (4 years ago) Permalink

i think the jist of plax's argument is the need for straight guys to say "no homo"

sarahel, Monday, 21 June 2010 18:30 (4 years ago) Permalink

I guess I'm not surprised that there's supposed to be a "crisis of masculinity" at present, but it seems to me totally unnecessary.

I never fit any of the social stereotypes of being "a man's man" (an interesting phrase that has now slipped into desuetude), but I got around it by just deciding I was a man, so any definition of masculinity that left me out was a flawed definition. It seemed perverse to credit the definition as correct and to place the flaw in myself.

So, if there is indeed a "crisis in masculinity" it isn't because men are not men anymore. It is more a failure of prior definitions. But that definitional failure has been around for a long time. We need, among other things, a definition that leaves out any particular sexual orientation as a requirement.

In fact, it would be helpful to cut masculinity loose from gender altogether, so we all can recognize the inclusion of both masculine and feminine traits in everyone. This idea has long been accepted in Asia. See also: yin & yang.

It's about time we got with that program and laughed those silly ideas of masculiinity (as exemplified in the ads above) out of society entirely. Irony in this case isn't strong enough to do the job. Ridicule is the right medicine.

Aimless, Monday, 21 June 2010 18:45 (4 years ago) Permalink

agree w/Lamp though - some of those Miller Lite drinking guys in that ad are v. cuet

sarahel, Monday, 21 June 2010 18:46 (4 years ago) Permalink

ridiculing people and their ideas is always the anti-macho solution right

The Black Keys - white boys can still throw down (crüt), Monday, 21 June 2010 18:50 (4 years ago) Permalink

on the macho scale, where does playing devil's advocate rate?

sarahel, Monday, 21 June 2010 18:53 (4 years ago) Permalink

I see what you did there. cute. but the sleight of hand came where you added ridiculing people to what I said abt ridiculing ideas.

Aimless, Monday, 21 June 2010 18:56 (4 years ago) Permalink

all im really saying is that it seems from my perspective ther igid rules for expression of male-male sexual desire w/in a straight male framework make it inherently problematic for straight men to celebrate their masculinity because seeing and enjoying yourself as a masculine image involves an enjoyment and appreciation of an image of masculinity but the sexual element is kindof suppressed?

plax (ico), Monday, 21 June 2010 20:14 (4 years ago) Permalink

Can't speak for Sarah, but I definitely wasn't ridiculing plax.

bamcquern, Monday, 21 June 2010 20:18 (4 years ago) Permalink

Oh, nevermind. That's not what anybody meant.

bamcquern, Monday, 21 June 2010 20:21 (4 years ago) Permalink

lol - i thought crüt's comment was ridiculing me for commenting on the "cuet"ness of the guys in the ad!

sarahel, Monday, 21 June 2010 20:21 (4 years ago) Permalink

if he was hes a retard cos those guys are pretty cute

plax (ico), Monday, 21 June 2010 20:29 (4 years ago) Permalink

this though:

"So, if there is indeed a "crisis in masculinity" it isn't because men are not men anymore. It is more a failure of prior definitions. But that definitional failure has been around for a long time. We need, among other things, a definition that leaves out any particular sexual orientation as a requirement."

I have no idea how this could work, any definition is going to be lacking, it might even be said that the more comprehensive a definition is the more explicitly exclusionary it becomes.

plax (ico), Monday, 21 June 2010 20:30 (4 years ago) Permalink

agreeing w/ aimless. why not describe ur genderness and what it means to you as something compatible w/ yourself and how you want to proceed? i think those ideas of masculinity shouldn't be ridiculed but ignored or exploded -- speaking as one of those gay guys with guilt issues who's tried to be what i desire or wanted to try to be what i desire. it's impossible and exhausting. x-post

I am an old guy, and I prefer the late 90s. (Matt P), Monday, 21 June 2010 20:34 (4 years ago) Permalink

haaaaate this one

|8 l) u_u (bnw), Monday, 21 June 2010 20:36 (4 years ago) Permalink

whoa - that ad really illustrates plax's point

sarahel, Monday, 21 June 2010 20:38 (4 years ago) Permalink

the reason i got pissed off with that shitty documentary was because it implied that these straight acting queers were

a.) in some way less queer (which in a way i kindof agree with, i mean, their version of gayness is a lot more digestible than faggy swishy hairdresser types)
b.) the implication that gay men desire "men" and that what constitutes a "man" is a lot narrower than the version aimless describes for himself above for eg.
c.) that these narratives of desire become just as easily applied to a rigid policing system for gender expression, which is really depressing considering the self-policing that most gays i know have experienced in the closet stage.

plax (ico), Monday, 21 June 2010 20:45 (4 years ago) Permalink

also lol @ late capitalism perpetuating heteronormativity itt btw

plax (ico), Monday, 21 June 2010 20:46 (4 years ago) Permalink

does it imply that the "men" gay men desire - what constitutes that masculinity - is narrower than that which straight women desire?

sarahel, Monday, 21 June 2010 20:47 (4 years ago) Permalink

The Black Keys - white boys can still throw down (crüt), Monday, 21 June 2010 20:50 (4 years ago) Permalink

so is the Thickburger more "masculine" than the burgers at those fast food places that are tiny and kinda grayish?

i don't know whether it's really popular in Canada as well (sarahel), Monday, 21 June 2010 20:51 (4 years ago) Permalink

you clearly do not understand the masculine cult of the grill

The Black Keys - white boys can still throw down (crüt), Monday, 21 June 2010 20:52 (4 years ago) Permalink

you know, because you're a woman

The Black Keys - white boys can still throw down (crüt), Monday, 21 June 2010 20:53 (4 years ago) Permalink

A definition of masculinity that is not anchored to gender would define various qualities or tendencies as masculine or feminine. The fact that most people display, at various times, all of the qualities assigned to masculinity or femininity would not be a problem, because this is accepted as given.

Otherwise, you are stuck with a definition that refers exclusively to genitalia. I have a penis and testicles, therefore I am masculine. But conflating masculinity with sexual equipment or sexual orientation renders the entire concept superfluous.

Aimless, Monday, 21 June 2010 20:54 (4 years ago) Permalink

xp - that's what i'm getting at - like those whitecastle miniburgers that aren't actually grilled and are kinda gray and gross - how do they reconcile with masculine coding?

i don't know whether it's really popular in Canada as well (sarahel), Monday, 21 June 2010 20:54 (4 years ago) Permalink

does it imply that the "men" gay men desire - what constitutes that masculinity - is narrower than that which straight women desire?

― sarahel, Monday, June 21, 2010 8:47 PM (4 minutes ago)

i guess its just that in that equation, women dont hold the same kind of stake in representations of masculinity, or at least don't experience it and the expectations of it in the same way. For gay men to demand an abstract and caricatured version of masculinity, and to hold it up as being somehow more authentic (that is, these guys are only gay in there sexual orientation and in every other way are just like other bros y'know) feels like particularly insidious appropriation and enforcement of the gender archetypes forced on them orig.

plax (ico), Monday, 21 June 2010 20:56 (4 years ago) Permalink

they are marketed to men as vegetables xpost

The Black Keys - white boys can still throw down (crüt), Monday, 21 June 2010 20:56 (4 years ago) Permalink

also - corndogs - is there a relation between the popularity of corndogs with hipsters and the way they "perform" masculinity?

i don't know whether it's really popular in Canada as well (sarahel), Monday, 21 June 2010 20:57 (4 years ago) Permalink

xp @ aimless, if we're gonna drop the link w/ gender what is the point of masculine/feminine at all? why organise these particular set of traits around this (now disappeared) binary at all. And won't that binary kind of remain anyway, like I don't see how we could just drop something with such an accumulation of cultural baggage.

plax (ico), Monday, 21 June 2010 20:58 (4 years ago) Permalink

^^ exactly.

i don't know whether it's really popular in Canada as well (sarahel), Monday, 21 June 2010 20:58 (4 years ago) Permalink

x-post so much of this stuff is about what "guys don't" do! or like, what's "less." it's passive-aggressive flattery with a keen awareness that what a man's doing when he sees ur ad is sitting on his ass watching tv or stuck in freeway traffic and needs to feel validated and inferior at the same time. many xposts

I am an old guy, and I prefer the late 90s. (Matt P), Monday, 21 June 2010 20:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

yeah, i mean advertisers obv have a vested interest in sustaining the neuroticism around men's idea of their own masculinity as a way to sell shit. But I think its pretty harmful. A point was made to me pretty recently that ANY attribution of femininity to a man could only really be phrased as an insult. I kinda feel like everyone should have the right to be a fag, straight or gay, and these are pretty fucking sexist.

plax (ico), Monday, 21 June 2010 21:04 (4 years ago) Permalink

advertisers obv have a vested interest in sustaining the neuroticism around men's idea of their own masculinity as a way to sell shit. But I think its pretty harmful.

Welcome to our lives! The cushions are hideous because someone bought them from Cindy Crawford's Walmart collection, but at least the couch is big enough for all of us.

the soul of the avocado escapes as soon as you open it (Laurel), Monday, 21 June 2010 21:09 (4 years ago) Permalink

xpost

The ads, btw, are clearly a variation on the usual theme, where buying the product solves the Big Problem, although the Problem is not the usual "I want more sexing", but rather "I feel unworthy of sexing".

Aimless, Monday, 21 June 2010 21:10 (4 years ago) Permalink

i think these are equally common problems consumer goods are marketed to solve

i don't know whether it's really popular in Canada as well (sarahel), Monday, 21 June 2010 21:11 (4 years ago) Permalink

i dunno if you could in this day and age be as blatant as the "put down your purse bit" and i swear i am in no way trying to downplay the societal pressures faced by women

plax (ico), Monday, 21 June 2010 21:12 (4 years ago) Permalink

xxxp to myself because it took me this long to respond and I hate to throw out a perfectly good comment:

Remember, when the front door shuts behind you, just close your eyes and wait for the Lysol/Clorox/Febreeze color-safe full-body disinfectant spray deodorant treatment to complete and the green light to come on before germ-lock door will open. We're doing it for the children.

the soul of the avocado escapes as soon as you open it (Laurel), Monday, 21 June 2010 21:14 (4 years ago) Permalink

well, i can't think of any ad campaigns targeted at women that operate on fear of being perceived as a lesbian.

i don't know whether it's really popular in Canada as well (sarahel), Monday, 21 June 2010 21:15 (4 years ago) Permalink

No, that's true. But we are supposed to be afraid of being too much or not enough of every other possible personal quality lest it be antithetical to femininity. Our sexuality isn't in question so much because, well, does anyone care what women like in their sex? As long as WE are likeable to others and we can still badger our husbands about household chores, everything will be fine.

I truly don't want to derail, I'm just saying I think there's a reason there's not more widespread accusation of homosexuality leveled against women by advertisers -- they don't have to pull that lever because there are already 895,680,890 others. They don't even have to go that far.

the soul of the avocado escapes as soon as you open it (Laurel), Monday, 21 June 2010 21:23 (4 years ago) Permalink

I can bring home the bacon
Fry it up in a pan
And never ever let you
Forget that you're a man
ohhhhhhhh, Enjoli

Grisly Addams (WmC), Monday, 21 June 2010 21:23 (4 years ago) Permalink

my friend & i have had running jokes about that hardee's ad for a whole year now

kaká flocká flame (J0rdan S.), Monday, 21 June 2010 21:24 (4 years ago) Permalink

Laurel - don't forget about the children!

i don't know whether it's really popular in Canada as well (sarahel), Monday, 21 June 2010 21:26 (4 years ago) Permalink

"hey what's up y'all i baked something"
"YOU MADE FOOD BY HAND??? WHAT ARE YOU, SOME KIND OF FAGGOT? TAKE YOUR QUEER BISCUITS AND GET OUT OF MY MANCAVE, HOMO."

kaká flocká flame (J0rdan S.), Monday, 21 June 2010 21:26 (4 years ago) Permalink

seriously, you could edit out the line about the biscuits and replace it with the guy saying, "Hey guys, guess what, I'm gay!"

i don't know whether it's really popular in Canada as well (sarahel), Monday, 21 June 2010 21:27 (4 years ago) Permalink

That towel says "Baking is GAY!" in case you couldn't read it.

the soul of the avocado escapes as soon as you open it (Laurel), Monday, 21 June 2010 21:28 (4 years ago) Permalink

Laurel - that's funny, because at the Tassajara bakery, at least back in the 60s, they would actually only let men bake the bread, women could only do prep and cleaning and stuff.

i don't know whether it's really popular in Canada as well (sarahel), Monday, 21 June 2010 21:29 (4 years ago) Permalink

"hey i made food"
"WTF. SIT DOWN AND WATCH MEN IN JUMPSUITS REV THEIR ENGINES."

I am an old guy, and I prefer the late 90s. (Matt P), Monday, 21 June 2010 21:30 (4 years ago) Permalink

The stupid conflation of gayness with femininity. Shit, from the pov of butch dykes, riding Harleys is GAY.

Aimless, Monday, 21 June 2010 21:31 (4 years ago) Permalink

Can I -- do I even have to say that the word "mancave" makes every skin cell I have cringe in repulsion? There are whole shows dedicated to...them. I'm not saying it again. It's a terrible word. Also, really, just crawl back into a vagina and find a womb if you really need it to be warm and dark and infantilizing that badly.

the soul of the avocado escapes as soon as you open it (Laurel), Monday, 21 June 2010 21:40 (4 years ago) Permalink

^^exerting your own expectations of masculinity

plax (ico), Monday, 21 June 2010 21:47 (4 years ago) Permalink

plax: I kinda feel like everyone should have the right to be a fag, straight or gay

never felt in the right position to assert this myself, idk if I'd be co-opting or how it'd seem from outside, but I think this is space worth fighting for anyway.

ogmor, Monday, 21 June 2010 23:00 (4 years ago) Permalink

Fear of gayness is apparently the only available effective tool to motivate men to get off the couch and buy something.

hills like white people (Hurting 2), Monday, 21 June 2010 23:01 (4 years ago) Permalink

The stupid conflation of gayness with femininity.

yeah the underlying assumption behind "men don't bake" isn't "gay men bake" it's "women bake"

The Black Keys - white boys can still throw down (crüt), Monday, 21 June 2010 23:08 (4 years ago) Permalink

But also that being like a woman = gay, no?

hills like white people (Hurting 2), Monday, 21 June 2010 23:09 (4 years ago) Permalink

yeah I guess the reaction of the other guys isn't like "oh shit... this dude might be a woman!!"

The Black Keys - white boys can still throw down (crüt), Monday, 21 June 2010 23:11 (4 years ago) Permalink

Is it an overreaction to think shit like this feeds shit like this?

This quote horribly lol:

"That was the pathetic reason as to why this terrible event happened - because he wanted to show he wasn't a pussy"
David Jeremy QC, prosecuting

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/10372678.stm

admrl, Tuesday, 22 June 2010 16:24 (4 years ago) Permalink

i guess it 'feeds into it' but you might as well posit other pop-cultural causes while yer at it. video games. rap music. action movies.

ultra nate dogg (history mayne), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 16:27 (4 years ago) Permalink

red bull imo

Remember when Mr Banhart was a replicant? (darraghmac), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 16:28 (4 years ago) Permalink

Can I -- do I even have to say that the word "mancave" makes every skin cell I have cringe in repulsion? There are whole shows dedicated to...them. I'm not saying it again. It's a terrible word. Also, really, just crawl back into a vagina and find a womb if you really need it to be warm and dark and infantilizing that badly.

This is OTMFM. My wife and I just bought a house, and there are several more rooms than we previously had in the place we were renting. I cannot tell you how many times people were like "Oooh. Now you can have a MAN CAVE."

Fuck that. If I want to watch a football game or play video games or watch a war movie, I'll do it. If my wife is currently utilizing the television, I'll either go somewhere I can watch the game or wait until she isn't. I don't need some sanctum infantatum to go do my "manly" things. At least back in the day the den was a place of work or quiet contemplation or reading or some such shit. Its replacement - the man cave - is a place of 50" plasma televisions, team logo stickers, and keggerators. Shit, dude. Leave that at a bar.

Its just so lame. I get that some dudes need to have a place where they can get away from the world and just kick it, watch a game, sit in recliners, drink beer, or whatever.

BUT WOMEN DON'T WANT THAT, TOO? FUCK!

Caveat: I do have an "office" because I work a fair bit at home, and am distracted relatively easily. This will not become a man cave, however.

Let Amare go ham like he was all you can eating it (B.L.A.M.), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 16:39 (4 years ago) Permalink

How about an interact-with-your-family-like-they're-real-people cave?

kkvgz, Tuesday, 22 June 2010 16:49 (4 years ago) Permalink

(there are no caves or private areas, except the bathroom and my kid's bedroom)

kkvgz, Tuesday, 22 June 2010 16:50 (4 years ago) Permalink

At least back in the day the den was a place of work or quiet contemplation or reading or some such shit. Its replacement - the man cave - is a place of 50" plasma televisions, team logo stickers, and keggerators.

Haha. I went off the handle a little bit yest but I should maybe be more thoughtful and say, yeah, agreed w BLAM on this point: of course EVERYONE would like space for themselves, comfort, etc, but I have to main objections to the mancave:

1. It pre-assumes that the rest of the house is NOT his, meaning it must belong to his wife and he's somehow less welcome or less "in control" there, which is obvious gendered bullshit and demeaning to all parties.

2. Men are being sold the lowest common denominator of hopes and dreams for this little bit of space that is "theirs". And they're supposed to be MOST at home and most their "real" authentic selves there, somehow? Except the whole sports and beer and bravado and sloppiness thing, while I myself am a big supporter of all these in the right context, these are not qualities that exercise the "best self" even though they have their place in life. This is not what we need more of in the home, or in our heads really.

the soul of the avocado escapes as soon as you open it (Laurel), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 16:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

*TWO main objections. Fingers too fast there.

the soul of the avocado escapes as soon as you open it (Laurel), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 17:00 (4 years ago) Permalink

How about an interact-with-your-family-like-they're-real-people cave?

Nah. Fuck them.

Let Amare go ham like he was all you can eating it (B.L.A.M.), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 17:00 (4 years ago) Permalink

how many people actually have these man caves? outside of beer commercials and sitcoms and mtv cribz.

iatee, Tuesday, 22 June 2010 17:02 (4 years ago) Permalink

Also related to expounding on point #2: I loathe the fact that advertisers have successfully made this kind of personal space in the home be about CONSUMPTION more than contemplation, or anything else the space could be used for. Maybe that's snobbish/elitist of me.

iatee, I have no idea, but people on home shows who're shopping for a new place or w/e seem to talk about them A LOT.

the soul of the avocado escapes as soon as you open it (Laurel), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 17:04 (4 years ago) Permalink

I agree that it's a concept of sorts and surely does exist in reality for some people - but to say that it's replaced the den? I dunno, I'd bet there are 5x as many 'dens' as 'man caves' in america...bet based entirely off personal experience.

iatee, Tuesday, 22 June 2010 17:08 (4 years ago) Permalink

New idea: Is the "man cave" a replacement idea for the garage or workshop, for "modern" men who don't have garages or wood-working areas or tools and hobbies of that particular "manly" sort? Like, a lot of people can come to the rescue with a cordless drill or some basic plumbing stuff like getting things out of the drain trap etc, in an emergency, but most of us "urban"(?) younger people don't spend the number of hours working on machinery or carpentry projects, etc, that I remember people doing when I was little. Or yardwork, because we don't have yards per se or we hire landscapers or something.

the soul of the avocado escapes as soon as you open it (Laurel), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 17:08 (4 years ago) Permalink

But, on the other hand, does this not take at least part of the recreation and socializing out of bars and bring it into the home? Is that bad?

Let Amare go ham like he was all you can eating it (B.L.A.M.), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 17:10 (4 years ago) Permalink

I loathe the fact that advertisers have successfully made this kind of personal space in the home be about CONSUMPTION more than contemplation, or anything else the space could be used for. Maybe that's snobbish/elitist of me.

Holy shit, me too. At some point, the eating/drinking/buying must stop, right? READ A BOOK!

Let Amare go ham like he was all you can eating it (B.L.A.M.), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 17:16 (4 years ago) Permalink

we call the room in the cellar with the couch, tv, and dvd player the "man cave" but we're both men and it really is like a cave so

I am an old guy, and I prefer the late 90s. (Matt P), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 17:35 (4 years ago) Permalink

oops i meant "man den"

I am an old guy, and I prefer the late 90s. (Matt P), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 17:36 (4 years ago) Permalink

usually said with a terrible british accent? ymmv

I am an old guy, and I prefer the late 90s. (Matt P), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 17:36 (4 years ago) Permalink

Was the den just the middle-class-ification of the "library"? Which was also a men's sanctum in houses that could afford one, iirc.

the soul of the avocado escapes as soon as you open it (Laurel), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 17:41 (4 years ago) Permalink

New idea: Is the "man cave" a replacement idea for the garage or workshop, for "modern" men who don't have garages or wood-working areas or tools and hobbies of that particular "manly" sort? Like, a lot of people can come to the rescue with a cordless drill or some basic plumbing stuff like getting things out of the drain trap etc, in an emergency, but most of us "urban"(?) younger people don't spend the number of hours working on machinery or carpentry projects, etc, that I remember people doing when I was little. Or yardwork, because we don't have yards per se or we hire landscapers or something.

this sounds right tbh.

I mean, when I think of the concept, it's less to do with masculinity and more with privacy (treehouse!). "hobby cave"

flapjackin (gbx), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 17:44 (4 years ago) Permalink

like when some lady tames this ~stallion~, I imagine I'll want some sort of space to do nerdy projecting ( bikes or w/e) by myself. just cuz I like to do that stuff alone, not because Ill expect my wife to be baking pies all the time

tho that would be dope, I love pie

flapjackin (gbx), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 17:47 (4 years ago) Permalink

yeah I mean people like having their own private space (not just men...) - I do think it comes down to the fact that most peoples' hobbies = watching tv

iatee, Tuesday, 22 June 2010 17:48 (4 years ago) Permalink

man cave pioneer:

iatee, Tuesday, 22 June 2010 17:49 (4 years ago) Permalink

yeah but calling it a "man cave" just conjures up bad smells imo.

what about "penis room"?
or "room for penises"

I am an old guy, and I prefer the late 90s. (Matt P), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 17:54 (4 years ago) Permalink

How about "room for athletic assholes"?

kkvgz, Tuesday, 22 June 2010 17:55 (4 years ago) Permalink

How about a room for shutin gamers?

flapjackin (gbx), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 17:57 (4 years ago) Permalink

That doesn't really fit in with the kind of party me and Matt P are having, sorry.

kkvgz, Tuesday, 22 June 2010 17:58 (4 years ago) Permalink

Frankly if there were a room that my family members/partner were reluctant to enter and where I was allowed to spend hours of recreation time basically unaccounted for except for occasional hobbyist projects that resulted, I'd spend every waking and non-working moment there.

Which would basically defeat the purpose of having a family/partner but you know, what can you do.

the soul of the avocado escapes as soon as you open it (Laurel), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 17:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

room with stuff in it for me to do

I am an old guy, and I prefer the late 90s. (Matt P), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 17:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

And I would really like it to be as boring as possible to everyone but me.

the soul of the avocado escapes as soon as you open it (Laurel), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 18:00 (4 years ago) Permalink

Frankly if there were a room that my family members/partner were reluctant to enter and where I was allowed to spend hours of recreation time basically unaccounted for except for occasional hobbyist projects that resulted, I'd spend every waking and non-working moment there.

Which would basically defeat the purpose of having a family/partner but you know, what can you do.

^^ This. Laurel, I feel like we agree on this topic whole-heartedly.

Let Amare go ham like he was all you can eating it (B.L.A.M.), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 18:02 (4 years ago) Permalink

you can do it even if you have a partner, don't need to designate a room either

I am an old guy, and I prefer the late 90s. (Matt P), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 18:07 (4 years ago) Permalink

I need a bigger apartment. With a den.

the soul of the avocado escapes as soon as you open it (Laurel), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 18:07 (4 years ago) Permalink

:(

I am an old guy, and I prefer the late 90s. (Matt P), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 18:09 (4 years ago) Permalink

In Britain, this space is called 'the shed' and it's a place for men who like kamikaze home repair to isolate themselves from their houses. It is accepted by the type of man who celebrates Top Gear viewing as a 'blokey' pursuit.

Further to what Plaxico was saying about the doc above, this is just another take on projecting 'realness' or basically it's Paris is Burning in a lumberjack shirt. I also give a lot of traction to the idea that the gay fashion designer's first-collection 'muse' for menswear is the guy they were bullied by, or the guy they fancied at a time when they had less acceptance/control over how they, themselves, were seen.

WHEN CROWS GO BAD (suzy), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 18:10 (4 years ago) Permalink

found the trailer for that doc. btw. iirc the guy who says the line i was talking about is pretty much the only interesting guy in it, and not just bc of his awesome moustache.

I'm not sure how comfortable I am w/ describing gay displays of masculinity in a kind of PIB realness context either bc it kind of implicitly suggests that straight displays of "masculinity" are in some way more real or authentic than gay.

plax (ico), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 18:24 (4 years ago) Permalink

Your comfort is not the issue, as the voguers were the ones who invented 'realness' categories and predicated it on the whole phenomenon of 'passing', but I would argue that all 'masculine' displays have that aspect.

WHEN CROWS GO BAD (suzy), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 18:35 (4 years ago) Permalink

you are being p. hasty w/ prescribing an element of a very specific subultural phenomenon existing in a very specific context as somehow paradigmatic of the vastly larger cultural spectrum of male gender performativity. But beyond that,I mean, a large part of the performance of "realness" in PIB is explained by the ballers as an expression of their desire to overcome marginality, that line about the appearance of success being an equivalent for success itself (framed against the backdrop of racism, homo/transphobia and the aspirational climate of american popular culture in the 70s, 80s in partic.)

plax (ico), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 18:54 (4 years ago) Permalink

PIB?

I am an old guy, and I prefer the late 90s. (Matt P), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 18:55 (4 years ago) Permalink

paris is burning

plax (ico), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 19:00 (4 years ago) Permalink

dorian corey is such a hero

plax (ico), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 19:01 (4 years ago) Permalink

I loathe the fact that advertisers have successfully made this kind of personal space in the home be about CONSUMPTION more than contemplation, or anything else the space could be used for. Maybe that's snobbish/elitist of me.

Well yeah, me too - and maybe this is a bit off-topic - but one thing I've been noticing among my friends who are also urbanites, is a desire to return to the carpentry/construction/productive projects that we associate from the middle America of our youth. It's like everyone I know who lives somewhere with anything resembling a backyard wants to have a garden and grow produce and raise chickens.

i don't know whether it's really popular in Canada as well (sarahel), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 19:20 (4 years ago) Permalink

that looks fantastic. thread has me thinking about all sorts of things but i don't how how to put it into a coherent statement. like, this stuff really affects me sometimes. x-post

I am an old guy, and I prefer the late 90s. (Matt P), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 19:21 (4 years ago) Permalink

it is fucking fantastic. would totally recommend.

plax (ico), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 19:22 (4 years ago) Permalink

PIB is life-changingly good!

rim this, fuck that (Eric H.), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 19:26 (4 years ago) Permalink

maybe it's a desire to have a direct hand in SOMETHING that's a part of your life. that's what you tell yourself before you start. then you start and it just plain sucks, but you keep going cuz you started it. we just planted a garden, cut down a bunch of weed trees, grew a lawn and landscaped some flower beds. and it looks nice! it's a great thing to do but it doesn't really mean anything beyond itself imo x-post

I am an old guy, and I prefer the late 90s. (Matt P), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 19:29 (4 years ago) Permalink

yeah, Matt, I kinda feel like it's a reaction to the alienation of consumerism and work that involves sitting in front of a computer all day. It's like they want to produce something in a way that requires physical labor.

i don't know whether it's really popular in Canada as well (sarahel), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 19:41 (4 years ago) Permalink

After all, COMBOS® has been the 'Official Cheese-Filled Snack of NASCAR' since 2002."

i don't know whether it's really popular in Canada as well (sarahel), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 19:56 (4 years ago) Permalink

is the study in decline? seems like the ultimate male room to me.

ogmor, Tuesday, 22 June 2010 19:58 (4 years ago) Permalink

Well, yeah. Who else should be the arbiter of a city's manliness than those who have been designated the OFFICIAL purveyor of cheese-filled snacks to NASCAR?

Let Amare go ham like he was all you can eating it (B.L.A.M.), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 19:58 (4 years ago) Permalink

Paris is Burning is also very 'fake it 'til you make it' and yeah, it's probably one of the best films about anything, ever. However, I think most people are putting on a performance of themselves in public, whether they realize or not.

The idea sarahel mentions is not exactly a new thing. Last week I was sent off to interview that irrepressible gender warrior J3anette W1nt3rs0n, who owns an organic grocery in east London and totally endorses the idea that people who spend all day in a headspace *do* need physical labour, or at last the grasp and release of working hard on something with yr hands, because otherwise we are all just battery hens who happen to wear jeans.

WHEN CROWS GO BAD (suzy), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 19:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

New Display Name. Awesome. And it has upped my masculinity 10x.

Official Cheese-Filled Snack of NASCAR since 2002 (B.L.A.M.), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 20:00 (4 years ago) Permalink

did NASCAR have a different official cheese-filled snack before 2002?

i don't know whether it's really popular in Canada as well (sarahel), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 20:02 (4 years ago) Permalink

one thing I've been noticing among my friends who are also urbanites, is a desire to return to the carpentry/construction/productive projects that we associate from the middle America of our youth.

This "phenomenon" makes my mother laugh; it was the same thing that got her and her entire generation through the 70s. I mentioned that my hipster (former ILXor!) friend was really into spinning wool and my mom was like, Yeah, no biggie, I did that.

the soul of the avocado escapes as soon as you open it (Laurel), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 20:07 (4 years ago) Permalink

Also to sarahel: there've been news stories (Oh hello NYT Style section!) for at least several years about aged hipsters giving up city/corporate life and moving upstate to raise goats organically or whatever. Wasn't news then, isn't new now.

the soul of the avocado escapes as soon as you open it (Laurel), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 20:09 (4 years ago) Permalink

so sorry I don't live in NYC or London - but it does seem like this isn't something that was a "trend" 8-10 years ago.

i don't know whether it's really popular in Canada as well (sarahel), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 20:11 (4 years ago) Permalink

Hipster knitting was part of the same movement (actually it's the earliest example I can think of, but maybe I just didn't know any yuppies-turned-farmers then), and there were books about guerilla fiber arts and "stitch'n'bitch" groups 8-10 years ago. And I always thought etsy.com came out of that movement too: people wanted a way to showcase/sell the stuff they were making.

the soul of the avocado escapes as soon as you open it (Laurel), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 20:17 (4 years ago) Permalink

Actually, I kind of support that. Whatever forms we need communal folk crafts to take to pass to the next generation, go for it. Stitch-n-bitch / urban farming / carpentry / whatever.

I think this comes from reading all those Foxfire books when I was working a boring summer job at a historical village.

Don Homer (kingfish), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 20:17 (4 years ago) Permalink

Hipster knitting was part of the same movement (actually it's the earliest example I can think of, but maybe I just didn't know any yuppies-turned-farmers then), and there were books about guerilla fiber arts and "stitch'n'bitch" groups 8-10 years ago. And I always thought etsy.com came out of that movement too: people wanted a way to showcase/sell the stuff they were making.

If this is a movement, my moms would be an OG. She's been weaving, and winning state fair blue ribbons for it, for nigh on 30 years now.

Official Cheese-Filled Snack of NASCAR since 2002 (B.L.A.M.), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 20:19 (4 years ago) Permalink

Semi-relevant, although I may wind up making a separate thread:

It's the 20th annual End of Men! issue.

I can't tell whether this sort of thing is more a result of misandry (men are useless and dumb) or misogyny (women are power-hungry bitches who want to eliminate us), but either way it gets under my skin.

hills like white people (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 20:21 (4 years ago) Permalink

Like if we've been operating on the premise all these years that people should be judged by ability and not gender, and all these years men have been the overwhelming majority in every field, then why are we sounding alarms the moment women overtake men in something?

hills like white people (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 20:22 (4 years ago) Permalink

well sure, knitting, arts & crafts, the readymade magazine thing are the predecessors for the gardening/farming trend. And maybe it's not that recent, but I feel like this type of thing became more prevalent among members of and aspirants to "the creative class" post-dot com crash.

i don't know whether it's really popular in Canada as well (sarahel), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 20:25 (4 years ago) Permalink

because it will sell THE IDEAS ISSUE of the Atlantic Monthly

I am an old guy, and I prefer the late 90s. (Matt P), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 20:25 (4 years ago) Permalink

x-post

I am an old guy, and I prefer the late 90s. (Matt P), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 20:25 (4 years ago) Permalink

I found out recently that pulling weeds and planting stuff in your yard is kind of fun if you're not forced to do it. Is that manly or not or non of the above?

bamcquern, Tuesday, 22 June 2010 20:27 (4 years ago) Permalink

i think it depends on whether you have lower back problems as well as your class background and where you grew up

i don't know whether it's really popular in Canada as well (sarahel), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 20:28 (4 years ago) Permalink

e

bamcquern, Tuesday, 22 June 2010 20:29 (4 years ago) Permalink

i no

i don't know whether it's really popular in Canada as well (sarahel), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 20:30 (4 years ago) Permalink

My back's okay. I was middle class, but it's more complicated than that.

bamcquern, Tuesday, 22 June 2010 20:30 (4 years ago) Permalink

& I grew up in eff ell aye.

bamcquern, Tuesday, 22 June 2010 20:31 (4 years ago) Permalink

i grew up in a town where agriculture/agribusiness was the largest industry - i'm having trouble imagining planting things/pulling weeds as something fun, because i equate it so intensely with low-wage labor.

i don't know whether it's really popular in Canada as well (sarahel), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 20:32 (4 years ago) Permalink

and as an educated middle-class white person i could avoid it and sit in an air-conditioned office - or something like that.

i don't know whether it's really popular in Canada as well (sarahel), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 20:33 (4 years ago) Permalink

I never thought I would like it. It's only kind of fun because I don't have to. And starting a compost heap with my roommates at previous house was my gateway drug. Digging in dirt and trash I knew would be fun without even thinking.

bamcquern, Tuesday, 22 June 2010 20:35 (4 years ago) Permalink

a

bamcquern, Tuesday, 22 June 2010 20:35 (4 years ago) Permalink

dorian corey is such a hero

"After Corey's death, the mummified body of Robert Worley (aka Robert Wells), was found in Corey's belongings with a gunshot wound to the head."

The Black Keys - white boys can still throw down (crüt), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 20:55 (4 years ago) Permalink

I want to know more about that but can only read the first page of the citation!!!! Who has the goods?

the soul of the avocado escapes as soon as you open it (Laurel), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 20:58 (4 years ago) Permalink

The extent of my urban farming is herbs on the balcony and six months of Saturdays working on a farmer's market stall, but I like doing those things. In the suburb where I grew up, everyone had gardens with at least beans and tomatoes growing in them. I also hate with a passion anything you could label YARD WORK, having been press-ganged into doing a ton of it for my mom as a teenager, but if I had my own garden I might feel differently.

WHEN CROWS GO BAD (suzy), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 21:00 (4 years ago) Permalink

"After Corey's death, the mummified body of Robert Worley (aka Robert Wells), was found in Corey's belongings with a gunshot wound to the head."

― The Black Keys - white boys can still throw down (crüt), Tuesday, June 22, 2010 8:55 PM (9 minutes ago)

haha i knew this, but did you read about the note left with the body? I can hear it read in her voice.

plax (ico), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 21:05 (4 years ago) Permalink

I grew up pretty much in a suburb (also in ef ell aye) with just my mom and our yard was always a mess. Our backyard especially was really overgrown and there was this huge bamboo tree taking over everything. It was a great place to play and I'm pretty sure I learned to love weeds and bugs back there.

In my dad's neighborhood everyone's lawn was way way manicured. All the kids in his neighborhood would dig huge holes in all the cul-de-sacs, destroying everything. I love gardening because any activity involving crouching and digging in the dirt is fun to me. My favorite part is squeezing the roots.

I once had this really ridiculous summer job planting restorative wetland plants along lake and river beds and it was soooo hard but it didn't make me hate yard work.

big loose compost heaps are the best. Gawd, having a semi office job is what makes me want to be outside and dirty when I'm not working. I guess because yard work was always presented to me as a leisure activity (except for that one job, but we were saving the environment!) it still feels leisurely to me.

peacocks, Tuesday, 22 June 2010 21:12 (4 years ago) Permalink

wow that was longer than I meant for it to be.

peacocks, Tuesday, 22 June 2010 21:14 (4 years ago) Permalink

and less coherent?

peacocks, Tuesday, 22 June 2010 21:15 (4 years ago) Permalink

I also hate with a passion anything you could label YARD WORK, having been press-ganged into doing a ton of it for my mom as a teenager, but if I had my own garden I might feel differently.

― WHEN CROWS GO BAD (suzy), Tuesday, June 22, 2010 4:00 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

totally---secretly love doing "chores," unless they're actual chores, prescribed by someone else.

also: virtually every "crafty" trend i've even mentioned in passing to my mom, she can locate somewhere in the 70s. really sort of amazed that anyone (except 20 yo hipsters) think they're reinventing the wheel when they get stoned and try and reinvent the wheel

flapjackin (gbx), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 22:26 (4 years ago) Permalink

well, were these "crafty" trends trendy in the 80s and 90s? i guess that's my real question.

i don't know whether it's really popular in Canada as well (sarahel), Tuesday, 22 June 2010 23:15 (4 years ago) Permalink

Next up: macrame and decoupage.

nickn, Tuesday, 22 June 2010 23:58 (4 years ago) Permalink

Man, I read some quote that was all "these young new women think they're doing something special and revolutionary by picking up needles and yarn and making themselves an angora toque, but really" from like the 1920s.

breaking that little dog's heart chakra (Abbott), Wednesday, 23 June 2010 00:27 (4 years ago) Permalink

just wait 'til kilns make a return

Don Homer (kingfish), Wednesday, 23 June 2010 00:31 (4 years ago) Permalink

HA! My cousin installed a state of the art kiln and turned her garage into a pottery about five years ago.

Crafts my mother did in the '70s: dried flower arrangements in baskets; cornucopia-type arrangements in baskets complete with varnished challah loaf and many, many dried gourds; wreaths; crocheting innumerable Afghans (besides the dogs, this is the reason ladies of a certain demographic can locate Afghanistan on maps); shell collections in lamp bases; arrangement of cattails and other dried marsh grasses in wicker baskets; God's Eyes; macramé; limited sewing of clothes; making jam out of a tree full of crab apples/the grapes on my aunt's trellis; needlepoint; rug hooking - but never, ever knitting. Most of those crafts make me want to stab my eyes out and there is a wicker ban in this apartment.

The only crafty thing I ever did in the '80s was to make Jackson Pollock-style sweatshirts and t-shirts using acrylic paint flicked onto plain tops.

WHEN CROWS GO BAD (suzy), Wednesday, 23 June 2010 00:35 (4 years ago) Permalink

i did hella rug hooking and cross stitch in the 80s, but i was a child

an outlet to express the dark invocations of (La Lechera), Wednesday, 23 June 2010 00:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

has this been posted yet

its like why GROCERY BAG and not saddam? (deej), Wednesday, 23 June 2010 06:40 (4 years ago) Permalink

totally---secretly love doing "chores," unless they're actual chores, prescribed by someone else.

^^this

Pies and Whispers (get bent), Wednesday, 23 June 2010 06:47 (4 years ago) Permalink

I love the fact that a thread called "Marketing of Masculinity" is now all about knitting and sewing.

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Wednesday, 23 June 2010 07:09 (4 years ago) Permalink

how can we best market knitting & sewing to men?

The Black Keys - white boys can still throw down (crüt), Wednesday, 23 June 2010 07:19 (4 years ago) Permalink

sharp objects?

Pies and Whispers (get bent), Wednesday, 23 June 2010 08:30 (4 years ago) Permalink

my sewing machine has more horsepower than your sewing machine

crüt it out (dyao), Wednesday, 23 June 2010 08:31 (4 years ago) Permalink

sew easy a caveman could do it

Pies and Whispers (get bent), Wednesday, 23 June 2010 08:34 (4 years ago) Permalink

Pies and Whispers (get bent), Wednesday, 23 June 2010 08:48 (4 years ago) Permalink

Pies and Whispers (get bent), Wednesday, 23 June 2010 08:49 (4 years ago) Permalink

goatse, that last one

ampersand (remy bean), Wednesday, 23 June 2010 11:28 (4 years ago) Permalink

how's this for a masculine look - the sweater's hand-made by this boy's great-aunt:

eat your heart out, hipster knitters

progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 23 June 2010 11:35 (4 years ago) Permalink

i dunno about masculine, but it's certainly awesome

Remember when Mr Banhart was a replicant? (darraghmac), Wednesday, 23 June 2010 11:38 (4 years ago) Permalink

My kid in a sweatervest that was knitted for me as a child by my Godmother's mother:

kkvgz, Wednesday, 23 June 2010 12:01 (4 years ago) Permalink

awww
That is a great vest that definitely looks homemade. No one sells garments made of variegated yarn. It's a dead giveaway that it was gifted by a crafty relative.

breaking that little dog's heart chakra (Abbott), Wednesday, 23 June 2010 15:21 (4 years ago) Permalink

He looks a lot happier to be wearing it than the kid in Tracer's photo.

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Wednesday, 23 June 2010 15:55 (4 years ago) Permalink

they're both beautiful!

Pies and Whispers (get bent), Wednesday, 23 June 2010 16:44 (4 years ago) Permalink

That actually isn't very funny, sorry.

hills like white people (Hurting 2), Saturday, 26 June 2010 03:58 (4 years ago) Permalink

wow, didn't see this thread had a massive bump! everyone otm, especially Tiarnan who is imo near-unimpeachable on gender/gay issues

so you want Mark Ronson to cry into your ass (acoleuthic), Saturday, 26 June 2010 12:13 (4 years ago) Permalink

the bud light handbag one is my least favorite commercial of all time

incredible length (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 05:31 (4 years ago) Permalink

even tho there's a slight homophobic undercurrent ("your pants are too tight!") to it, i think the one of bros zinging bros is actually an acceptable entry into the "marketing of masculinity" canon -- forget which beer it's for tho

incredible length (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 05:32 (4 years ago) Permalink

always wonder how the women in these commercials feel -- if it's worse or equal to paying your rent by porn -- like having to be the chick in the bud light one where you find out that a dude would legit throw you off a cliff before he threw his beer off the cliff -- i know it's acting but still

incredible length (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 29 June 2010 05:33 (4 years ago) Permalink

2 weeks pass...

colnagl (cozen), Wednesday, 14 July 2010 13:03 (4 years ago) Permalink

(...)

surfer blood for oil (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 14 July 2010 16:04 (4 years ago) Permalink

What is the piece of music during the lolwomen part?

the aztec mystic pizza (Stevie D), Wednesday, 14 July 2010 16:09 (4 years ago) Permalink

haha that was my first question too

Noise Pictorial Works Juvenile Fiction (Abbott), Wednesday, 14 July 2010 16:12 (4 years ago) Permalink

REFUSED PARTY PROGRAMME

Whiney G. Savagegarten (LOLK), Wednesday, 14 July 2010 16:13 (4 years ago) Permalink

Whiney G. Savagegarten (LOLK), Wednesday, 14 July 2010 16:14 (4 years ago) Permalink

that Sewing For Men and Boys is th emost horrifying thing I've seen all week. The black guy's in an eighties suit, the guy in the middle is rockin' it like it's 1976, and the boy upfront is Lord Byron.

Filmmaker, Author, Radio Host Stephen Baldwin (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 14 July 2010 16:20 (4 years ago) Permalink

My problem is, how do I convince my bf to go with me to see that movie without making him suspicious that it's all for 15 minutes of Statham screen time.

the soul of the avocado escapes as soon as you open it (Laurel), Wednesday, 14 July 2010 16:21 (4 years ago) Permalink

apparently that trailer is fan-made : /

colnagl (cozen), Wednesday, 14 July 2010 16:33 (4 years ago) Permalink

when your collection of tough guys features someone called 'Randy Couture' you're surely doin it rong?

Merdeyeux, Wednesday, 14 July 2010 17:19 (4 years ago) Permalink

My boss just forwarded this to the entire department...

"I'm on a horse"

^^^^^granted, though, this is actually genuinely laugh out loud funny. (at least to 4 IT workers in a basement.) But is it the kind of advert this thread describes, or is it a pisstake of the kind of advert (or is it both a pisstake and also an ad playing on the same fears.)? I'm confused.

procedurally generated todge (Masonic Boom), Tuesday, 27 July 2010 14:51 (4 years ago) Permalink

both

uNi-tArDs (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 27 July 2010 14:52 (4 years ago) Permalink

yeah, i think

(or is it both a pisstake and also an ad playing on the same fears

this.

"It's far from 'lol' you were reared, boy" (darraghmac), Tuesday, 27 July 2010 14:52 (4 years ago) Permalink

a pisstake ad is never just a pisstake ad

uNi-tArDs (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 27 July 2010 14:54 (4 years ago) Permalink

a pisstake ad is never just a pisstake

"It's far from 'lol' you were reared, boy" (darraghmac), Tuesday, 27 July 2010 14:55 (4 years ago) Permalink

but a piss is still a piss as urine gooooeess byyyyyeeee

"It's far from 'lol' you were reared, boy" (darraghmac), Tuesday, 27 July 2010 14:56 (4 years ago) Permalink

haha. awful.

uNi-tArDs (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 27 July 2010 14:56 (4 years ago) Permalink

It's just odd, the layers, in both taking the piss out of manipulation, while still using that same manipulation. And somehow more effective (at least, if my boss is anything to go by) for that knowingness.

procedurally generated todge (Masonic Boom), Tuesday, 27 July 2010 14:57 (4 years ago) Permalink

well, good marketing depts wouldn't be known for lacking cynicism. not to the trick, then perform the trick behind the nod.

"It's far from 'lol' you were reared, boy" (darraghmac), Tuesday, 27 July 2010 14:58 (4 years ago) Permalink

http://current.com/shows/infomania/92581445_thats-gay-sissy-commercials.htm

hey everybody go f urself imo lol

plax (ico), Wednesday, 4 August 2010 15:29 (4 years ago) Permalink

This is, quite frankly, the best response ever to Old Spice Man:

http://oldspice-kinkmeme.dreamwidth.org/460.html?thread=12748#cmt12748

(warning: contains implied slash but still SFW)

Masonic Boom, Wednesday, 4 August 2010 15:42 (4 years ago) Permalink

old spice man seems totally out of place with the rest of those v clearly heteronormative ads imo

liiiike, the bit at the end when he's sitting on the horse and dude says "guess what? totally gay"---i'm pretty sure the ad is aware of that?

pies. (gbx), Wednesday, 4 August 2010 15:50 (4 years ago) Permalink

yeah but loads of stuff does that double bluff thing where it pretends to be subverting a norm by perpetuating it, this is especially prevalent in advertising now.

plax (ico), Wednesday, 4 August 2010 15:52 (4 years ago) Permalink

no i get that, it's just---i had never seen the rest of those commercials and was kinda O_O at how they were so clearly informed by gay panic or w/e

like srsly that colorado speedway one was wild---two guys in pink sweaters, sipping tea!

pies. (gbx), Wednesday, 4 August 2010 16:01 (4 years ago) Permalink

It's kind of amazing how homoerotic some of the man ads can be.

Theodore "Thee Diddy" Roosevelt (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 4 August 2010 16:16 (4 years ago) Permalink

it's interesting (maybe) how lots of these need to create a this-is-how-women-want-you-to-act context

also i feel like maybe they're designed to play on one level to another audience and another to another, so hm

thomp, Wednesday, 4 August 2010 17:19 (4 years ago) Permalink

*strokes beard*

thomp, Wednesday, 4 August 2010 17:19 (4 years ago) Permalink

always thought the [uk?] lynx adverts were curious in their deflationary view of masculinity as now-lucked-out passive clueless sorts, sometimes literally being eaten by voracious impulsive nuts-style Babes. seems v british.

ogmor, Thursday, 5 August 2010 23:03 (4 years ago) Permalink

2 months pass...

James May is on a mission to save modern man. Thirty years ago men were a resourceful, practical and dependable band of brothers. Today, somehow, they have been reduced to shambling, useless, half-drunk and unreliable oafs in the eyes of society, a reputation perpetuated by the popular culture of blokeishness, which says they're a bit pitiable, endearingly hopeless and completely unable to multi-task.

From Man Lab HQ, James leads a team of today's lost male souls on the slightly muddy but invigorating path to enlightenment. They face an array of inventive practical tests, learn how to deal with the mysteries of romance and reclaim the notion of teamwork in a series of daunting challenges that demonstrates to the world that men can be a dependable and admirable bunch rather than the tepid receptacles for sperm many now assume them to be.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00vsw36

cozen, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 10:45 (3 years ago) Permalink

??

progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 10:54 (3 years ago) Permalink

sounded dodgier to me before I actually googled the precise definition of receptacle :)

still, james may is a fandan

cozen, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 10:56 (3 years ago) Permalink

Well the word suggests receivership, "catching" if you will

progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 10:57 (3 years ago) Permalink

I can't stop hearing that programme description as being read by Julian Clary.

Les centimètres énigmatiques (snoball), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 10:59 (3 years ago) Permalink

half-drunk
(...)
Each week, James sets an example to his team of men by facing a breathtaking test of courage and skill that would be more at home in an action movie. They go to the pub quite a lot too.

also...

James May learns how to defuse an unexploded bomb and serenade a woman.

At the same time?

Les centimètres énigmatiques (snoball), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 11:00 (3 years ago) Permalink

The trailer makes grim viewing.

Les centimètres énigmatiques (snoball), Wednesday, 27 October 2010 11:07 (3 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

Why are there so many commercials featuring a few guys sitting around watching television?

I can take a youtube that's seldom seen, flip it, now it's a meme (Hurting 2), Monday, 20 December 2010 22:25 (3 years ago) Permalink

That's what real men should do. Add in: sit around and play videogames, sit around and eat, sit around and drink, and try to fuck anything that moves while sitting in a bar.

Spectrum, Monday, 20 December 2010 23:15 (3 years ago) Permalink

Or maybe those commercials are just trying to create easy sympathy: "hey, those guys are watching TV too - just like us!"

Spectrum, Monday, 20 December 2010 23:16 (3 years ago) Permalink

Weird through-the-looking-glass effect. I guess maybe that's the point.

I can take a youtube that's seldom seen, flip it, now it's a meme (Hurting 2), Monday, 20 December 2010 23:50 (3 years ago) Permalink

3 months pass...

words used in ads aimed at boys:

words used in ads aimed at girls:

ban drake (the rapper) (max), Sunday, 10 April 2011 13:07 (3 years ago) Permalink

3 weeks pass...

Don't know if this is exactly germane to the thread, but those new Schick ProGlide Fusion "Face Off" commercials depress me somehow. I get this subtle vibe of defeatedness and desperation from them, like the men in them are all sort of trying to cling to this masculinity that doesn't make sense anymore but don't really feel much sense of purpose in general.

bin caught laden (Hurting 2), Friday, 6 May 2011 00:46 (3 years ago) Permalink

Don't know if this is exactly germane to the thread, but most of the commercials mentioned in this thread depress me somehow. I get this subtle vibe of defeatedness and desperation from them, like the men in them are all sort of trying to cling to this masculinity that doesn't make sense anymore but don't really feel much sense of purpose in general.

Fixed.

Christine Green Leafy Dragon Indigo, Saturday, 7 May 2011 00:02 (3 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

Last line of copy on my box of Dial For Men BLUE GRIT with MICRO SCRUBBERS:

Your hair covered, meat powered mansuit will be clean, smooth, and fresh all day.

I guess they just assume that no one will ever read the whole thing?

flights are very long when you're ornery (los blue jeans), Monday, 27 June 2011 02:12 (3 years ago) Permalink

meat powered mansuit

when i read this, i see a motorized article of clothing made of dude's skins that you feed ground beef into

mississippi john hurt, but alabama john feeling okay (m bison), Monday, 27 June 2011 02:15 (3 years ago) Permalink

those axe commercials use the phrase "man-hide"

dirty deathdrone boys (J0rdan S.), Monday, 27 June 2011 02:41 (3 years ago) Permalink

oh see, i think of something like Eddie Murphy's fat suit that is inflated by meat farts.

sarahel, Monday, 27 June 2011 02:42 (3 years ago) Permalink

GOT 2 B MANLY!!! GRR

brie on crüt (Stevie D(eux)), Monday, 27 June 2011 02:44 (3 years ago) Permalink

My favorite of these was the Snickers commercial where Mr. T was all "hahah imma throw shit @ u bcz ur a faggot"

brie on crüt (Stevie D(eux)), Monday, 27 June 2011 02:44 (3 years ago) Permalink

10 months pass...

MAN CANDLES

wolf kabob (ENBB), Thursday, 17 May 2012 00:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

omg they're actually called Man Candles

Though, tbh, they sort dropped the ball by not calling them mandles imo.

wolf kabob (ENBB), Thursday, 17 May 2012 00:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

oh mandles
you came and you smelled like some gross shit
so I wouldn't feel gay
oh mandles

he bit me (it felt like a diss) (m bison), Thursday, 17 May 2012 00:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

oh my god

horseshoe, Thursday, 17 May 2012 00:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

shit that has to be an snl skit

horseshoe, Thursday, 17 May 2012 00:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

It's not!!!

What on earth do you think "Man Town" is supposed to smell like??

wolf kabob (ENBB), Thursday, 17 May 2012 00:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

what is that purple one all the way to the left? "bean town"?

horseshoe, Thursday, 17 May 2012 00:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

xp hahaha okay "man town"

horseshoe, Thursday, 17 May 2012 00:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

"About This Fragrance - Escape to the man cave with this masculine blend of spices, woods and musk."

. . .

wolf kabob (ENBB), Thursday, 17 May 2012 00:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

^ man town

wolf kabob (ENBB), Thursday, 17 May 2012 00:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

man town smells like aftershave, starched french cuff shirts, fine cigars, polished leather, and the sweat of the oppressed

jesus christ (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Thursday, 17 May 2012 00:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

man town just sounds like gay bar imo

horseshoe, Thursday, 17 May 2012 00:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

I sorta zipped past that on Gawker today and thought it was a funny 'shopped picture. Now, though, my light chuckling has backed up and turned into dread and tears.

Bob Bop Perano (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 17 May 2012 00:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

xpost - lol

wolf kabob (ENBB), Thursday, 17 May 2012 00:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

what's the difference between first down and mowing the lawn?

dayo, Thursday, 17 May 2012 00:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

coming soon: ripe dick

dayo, Thursday, 17 May 2012 00:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

"smell yo dick...with yankee candle"

jesus christ (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Thursday, 17 May 2012 00:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

omg rip dick - DAYO!

wolf kabob (ENBB), Thursday, 17 May 2012 00:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

r.i.p. dayo's dick

jesus christ (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Thursday, 17 May 2012 00:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

hahahaa oops

wolf kabob (ENBB), Thursday, 17 May 2012 00:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

its sad he was a genital

jesus christ (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Thursday, 17 May 2012 00:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

;_;

dayo, Thursday, 17 May 2012 00:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

do not go genital into that good night

dayo, Thursday, 17 May 2012 00:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

man town smells like ball sweat and feet

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Thursday, 17 May 2012 00:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

rage rage with your ripe wick against the dying of the light xp

estela, Thursday, 17 May 2012 00:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

:)

wolf kabob (ENBB), Thursday, 17 May 2012 00:44 (2 years ago) Permalink

dying

dayo, Thursday, 17 May 2012 00:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

i want a man candle that captures the fragrance of despair over possibly turning into your father

jesus christ (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Thursday, 17 May 2012 00:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

old spice

dayo, Thursday, 17 May 2012 00:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

speechless

judas, a homo (elmo argonaut), Thursday, 17 May 2012 01:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

I am buying you one and shipping; Plz send me yr address

a parker full of poseys (Stevie D(eux)), Thursday, 17 May 2012 01:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

is there one that smells like "getting picked last in gym class"

yorba linda carlisle (donna rouge), Thursday, 17 May 2012 01:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

is there one that smells like "i can wear these socks again"

The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Thursday, 17 May 2012 01:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

"your family's profound but unspoken disappointment in you as you approach middle age"

jesus christ (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Thursday, 17 May 2012 01:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

"eau de redditor"

yorba linda carlisle (donna rouge), Thursday, 17 May 2012 01:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

"yesterday's pizza box"

this guy's a gangsta? his real name's mittens. (Hurting 2), Thursday, 17 May 2012 02:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

"cable porn again"

nickn, Thursday, 17 May 2012 03:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

"misplaced aggression (immigrants)"
"misplaced aggression (road rage)"
"paintballs"
"rush concert"

he bit me (it felt like a diss) (m bison), Thursday, 17 May 2012 03:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

smells like this song

Word of Wisdom Robots (Abbbottt), Thursday, 17 May 2012 03:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

"assorted organ meats"
"church erection"
"tragically stoic"

he bit me (it felt like a diss) (m bison), Thursday, 17 May 2012 03:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

"Clint Eastwood (dirty harry edition)"
"Clint Eastwood (2012 edition)"
"jorts"

he bit me (it felt like a diss) (m bison), Thursday, 17 May 2012 03:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

"taylor ham"

yorba linda carlisle (donna rouge), Thursday, 17 May 2012 03:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

"PUA basement meeting space"

Bob Bop Perano (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 17 May 2012 03:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

Can't decide whether this really goes in this thread or not, but:

http://www.divorcelawyersformen.com/index_facebook.html

eggleston or instagram? (Hurting 2), Sunday, 17 June 2012 17:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

Word of Wisdom Robots (Abbbottt), Sunday, 17 June 2012 17:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

good lawyers, doing good things, for good men

call all destroyer, Sunday, 17 June 2012 17:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

totally belongs

mh, Sunday, 17 June 2012 17:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

5 months pass...

jfc

http://dukecannon.com/

before and after broscience (goole), Tuesday, 11 December 2012 18:21 (1 year ago) Permalink

that is the most punchable website I have ever seen

I loves you, PORGI (DJP), Tuesday, 11 December 2012 18:29 (1 year ago) Permalink

BIG VICTORY BRICK OF SOAP
Smells Like Ass

Paul McCartney, the Gary Barlow of The Beatles (snoball), Tuesday, 11 December 2012 18:34 (1 year ago) Permalink

feminine shower gels and accessories? oh, they hate loofahs

presumably the soap has pumice or something so they can exfoliate in a more manly way

mh, Tuesday, 11 December 2012 18:48 (1 year ago) Permalink

how paranoid, adrift and cock-small must you feel to respond to this shit at all

before and after broscience (goole), Tuesday, 11 December 2012 18:49 (1 year ago) Permalink

I started reading the mangina thing for lols but couldn't finish it, it was just too stupid to even laugh at

I loves you, PORGI (DJP), Tuesday, 11 December 2012 18:55 (1 year ago) Permalink

idgi, the real men this site is aimed at wouldn't even know how to use a computer

乒乓, Tuesday, 11 December 2012 18:57 (1 year ago) Permalink

they'd be too busy pounding in railroad spikes with their erect penises

乒乓, Tuesday, 11 December 2012 18:57 (1 year ago) Permalink

"The greatest stocking stuffer since G. I. figurines dolls for boys."

nickn, Tuesday, 11 December 2012 21:26 (1 year ago) Permalink

gah, G. I. Joe.

And the Tampax thing. I'm not convinced it's not a gag site.

nickn, Tuesday, 11 December 2012 21:28 (1 year ago) Permalink

Duke Cannon isn’t for everyone. And quite frankly, he prefers it that way.

After all, Duke Cannon doesn’t dine with Vegans and he could give a damn about your new Ipad. Duke Cannon comes from a different era--an era when men had a greater purpose than building spreadsheets and spending their Saturdays at Banana Republic.

In Duke’s time, men pursued meaningful endeavors. They worked with their hands. They took pride in the things they built, not the things they bought. And the mindset was simple: men wanted to win, not find the "win-win".

And then the whole metrosexual trend came and screwed men up even worse.

Now exists a generation of men who have spent more time in a Pottery Barn store than a hardware store. Hell no.

Needless to say, the Duke Cannon Supply Company is not a big fan of this trend. It’s time for man to devolve, not evolve.

LIKE If you are against racism (omar little), Tuesday, 11 December 2012 21:44 (1 year ago) Permalink

there's nothing more shamefully wussy than a man who is so terrified of femininity he cloaks himself in cartoonish lifestyle signifiers to reassure everyone around him that he's not actually a woman.

LIKE If you are against racism (omar little), Tuesday, 11 December 2012 21:46 (1 year ago) Permalink

it's a little like the dude behind this is afraid if he puts down his chainsaw and moves too far away from his truck, he will spontaneously give birth

I loves you, PORGI (DJP), Tuesday, 11 December 2012 21:47 (1 year ago) Permalink

'duke cannon' sounds like a gay porn stars name

乒乓, Tuesday, 11 December 2012 21:49 (1 year ago) Permalink

'Duke Cannon Shoots With His Huge Balls'

Paul McCartney, the Gary Barlow of The Beatles (snoball), Tuesday, 11 December 2012 21:50 (1 year ago) Permalink

duke cannon drops drop the duke cannon

Nilmar Honorato da Silva, Tuesday, 11 December 2012 22:01 (1 year ago) Permalink

Nilmar Honorato da Silva, Tuesday, 11 December 2012 22:11 (1 year ago) Permalink

Phil otm

mh, Tuesday, 11 December 2012 22:17 (1 year ago) Permalink

no, soldiers fight for their superiors in a chain of state power!

Tome Cruise (Matt P), Tuesday, 11 December 2012 22:20 (1 year ago) Permalink

or something. it's definitely not "freedom of speech" as a bottom line whatever that means.

Tome Cruise (Matt P), Tuesday, 11 December 2012 22:21 (1 year ago) Permalink

feel like this thread basically boils down to: men are terrified of and hate themselves.

Tome Cruise (Matt P), Tuesday, 11 December 2012 22:23 (1 year ago) Permalink

ding ding ding

I loves you, PORGI (DJP), Tuesday, 11 December 2012 22:23 (1 year ago) Permalink

I thought that was all of humanity

mh, Tuesday, 11 December 2012 22:25 (1 year ago) Permalink

also flipside: men are terrified of and hate women

Spectrum, Tuesday, 11 December 2012 22:26 (1 year ago) Permalink

It's the half of humanity who apparently fear waking up in the morning and finding that their penis has been replaced with a vagina.

Paul McCartney, the Gary Barlow of The Beatles (snoball), Tuesday, 11 December 2012 22:26 (1 year ago) Permalink

flipside more liek sameside

Paul McCartney, the Gary Barlow of The Beatles (snoball), Tuesday, 11 December 2012 22:26 (1 year ago) Permalink

men are terrified of women's soap

set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 11 December 2012 22:27 (1 year ago) Permalink

feel like the duke cannon fbook page is just sitting there, ripe....

Nilmar Honorato da Silva, Tuesday, 11 December 2012 22:28 (1 year ago) Permalink

What I really get from this is that men want fancy soap they pay their hard-earned dollars for, too.

mh, Tuesday, 11 December 2012 22:30 (1 year ago) Permalink

giant soap that does NOT smell like ladies

set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 11 December 2012 22:30 (1 year ago) Permalink

and looks like a urinal disinfectant block

Paul McCartney, the Gary Barlow of The Beatles (snoball), Tuesday, 11 December 2012 22:31 (1 year ago) Permalink

no for real I started using this loofah thing that was on clearance for like $3 with some dove liquid "man soap" and I am starting to see why such a scrubby thing is useful

mh, Tuesday, 11 December 2012 22:32 (1 year ago) Permalink

i don't understand who this soap's audience thinks is holding them down exactly. who or what is this soap going to rescue them from? perhaps "pussified" in soap terms could stand for the decline of the blue collar working class. all bad things in these men's terms are either "womanly" or "gay" regardless of meaning of nuance, so i think that wraps up all the loose ends.

Spectrum, Tuesday, 11 December 2012 22:36 (1 year ago) Permalink

it's going to rescue them from the urge to use expensive soap that is girly. this is expensive manly soap. these people still want expensive soap. this soap is rough and tough in some way that you have to pay cash money for, unlike a zillion cheap-as-hell soaps that also come in a bar.

it is the $200 trucker hat of bar soaps

mh, Tuesday, 11 December 2012 22:40 (1 year ago) Permalink

or more accurately, the artisan-made hand axe

mh, Tuesday, 11 December 2012 22:40 (1 year ago) Permalink

I would applaud if the soap was actually a dead porcupine

I loves you, PORGI (DJP), Tuesday, 11 December 2012 22:40 (1 year ago) Permalink

surely the point of the big ass brick is that it will do more damage when you wrap it in a towel and use it to savagely beat your fat incompetent co-recruit?

Roobarb and Custos (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 11 December 2012 22:41 (1 year ago) Permalink

There's a dead porcupine inside the soap?

Paul McCartney, the Gary Barlow of The Beatles (snoball), Tuesday, 11 December 2012 22:41 (1 year ago) Permalink

xp it looks more like the kind of soap they'd use to scrub the floor of the 'head'

Paul McCartney, the Gary Barlow of The Beatles (snoball), Tuesday, 11 December 2012 22:42 (1 year ago) Permalink

idk the commodity fetishism is as glaring as the gay panic -- if ~real men~ ever bought soap, back in the days of flintlock muskets, knifefighting monkeys and hereditrary syphilis, then it was presumably just whatever soap there was, since they were unlikely to patronize the sort of places that sold more than one soap

now even the most banal objects are sold in a hundred near-iterative forms, so producers attempt to successfully commodify an abstraction

'sexual adequacy' is just a more obvious fit for cosmetic goods than 'freedom', 'allure', 'discernment' etc

Nilmar Honorato da Silva, Tuesday, 11 December 2012 22:45 (1 year ago) Permalink

am0n, Tuesday, 11 December 2012 22:53 (1 year ago) Permalink

SHUT UP BITCHEZ AND EAT YR CHICKEN

set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 11 December 2012 23:05 (1 year ago) Permalink

i was a little O_O over that

set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 11 December 2012 23:05 (1 year ago) Permalink

the TV version splices that with the nephews ad:

I loves you, PORGI (DJP), Tuesday, 11 December 2012 23:06 (1 year ago) Permalink

what's an "ass brick"

slugbuggy, Wednesday, 12 December 2012 09:12 (1 year ago) Permalink

wow u ppl rly h8 men

first u get the flower, then u get the honey, then u get the stamen (darraghmac), Wednesday, 12 December 2012 09:41 (1 year ago) Permalink

Paul McCartney, the Gary Barlow of The Beatles (snoball), Wednesday, 12 December 2012 19:00 (1 year ago) Permalink

The most important consideration in that ad is...how is that stuff bacon?

grossly incorrect register (in orbit), Wednesday, 12 December 2012 19:04 (1 year ago) Permalink

5 months pass...

christmas candy bar (al leong), Sunday, 12 May 2013 22:41 (1 year ago) Permalink

how is that stuff bacon? that's what bacon looks like!

i lost my shoes on acid (jed_), Sunday, 12 May 2013 23:23 (1 year ago) Permalink

is the secret to performance of a grizzly bear eating geoduck? or is it just there because it looks like a giant cock?

dylannn, Sunday, 12 May 2013 23:33 (1 year ago) Permalink

2 months pass...

Still can't get over this:

pplains, Monday, 15 July 2013 14:13 (1 year ago) Permalink

BITCH, GET YOUR HANDS OFF MY DR. PEPPER. IT'S NOT FOR YOU.

pplains, Monday, 15 July 2013 14:14 (1 year ago) Permalink

"You know this is just Diet Dr. Pepper in a different can, right?"

Meine Damen und Herren, ein grosse sh*tstorm! (snoball), Monday, 15 July 2013 14:16 (1 year ago) Permalink

BUT THESE CALORIES ARE "MANLY."

pplains, Monday, 15 July 2013 14:19 (1 year ago) Permalink

if there are 10 manly calories in dr pepper 10, surely original dr pepper is 15x as manly

⚓ (elmo argonaut), Monday, 15 July 2013 14:20 (1 year ago) Permalink

er,

twerking for obvious reasons (contenderizer), Monday, 15 July 2013 14:21 (1 year ago) Permalink

no fucking good

⚓ (elmo argonaut), Monday, 15 July 2013 14:22 (1 year ago) Permalink

otm

twerking for obvious reasons (contenderizer), Monday, 15 July 2013 14:23 (1 year ago) Permalink

assume that's why it was marked down to 97 cents

twerking for obvious reasons (contenderizer), Monday, 15 July 2013 14:24 (1 year ago) Permalink

lol @ crapforabuck.com

pplains, Monday, 15 July 2013 14:52 (1 year ago) Permalink

aw, thought i was neil armstrong of bad shampoo :(

twerking for obvious reasons (contenderizer), Monday, 15 July 2013 15:24 (1 year ago) Permalink

3 months pass...

乒乓, Friday, 25 October 2013 21:04 (10 months ago) Permalink

shut. up.

a dessicated quasi-tsunami of gut-busting cosmic - tech (DJP), Friday, 25 October 2013 21:06 (10 months ago) Permalink

dying of lols over here

a dessicated quasi-tsunami of gut-busting cosmic - tech (DJP), Friday, 25 October 2013 21:06 (10 months ago) Permalink

I wonder how they'll market the Activia version.

nickn, Friday, 25 October 2013 22:30 (10 months ago) Permalink

PLAIN

christmas candy bar (al leong), Friday, 25 October 2013 22:41 (10 months ago) Permalink

YOGURT

christmas candy bar (al leong), Friday, 25 October 2013 22:41 (10 months ago) Permalink

"Thanks to the “mancession,” metrosexuals have become “manfluencers™”"

etc, Friday, 25 October 2013 22:43 (10 months ago) Permalink

he looks like he's going to just spoon it directly into his navel

CAROUSEL! CAROUSEL! (Telephone thing), Saturday, 26 October 2013 03:21 (10 months ago) Permalink

and make loud OM NOM smacking sounds

CAROUSEL! CAROUSEL! (Telephone thing), Saturday, 26 October 2013 03:22 (10 months ago) Permalink

Stevie D(eux), Sunday, 27 October 2013 20:14 (10 months ago) Permalink

where is the revolver and single bullet and "fuck this world" stationary?

shiny trippy people holding bandz (m bison), Sunday, 27 October 2013 22:07 (10 months ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

乒乓, Saturday, 21 December 2013 19:02 (8 months ago) Permalink

Her last name?

pplains, Saturday, 21 December 2013 19:14 (8 months ago) Permalink

The Brotherhood of Shaving. Who invents this bullshit?

Aimless, Saturday, 21 December 2013 20:00 (8 months ago) Permalink

they do

pplains, Saturday, 21 December 2013 20:30 (8 months ago) Permalink

4 months pass...

, Sunday, 11 May 2014 00:50 (4 months ago) Permalink

man town

write 500 words of song (sleepingbag), Sunday, 11 May 2014 00:53 (4 months ago) Permalink

"Man Town" just makes me think of this classic CUTECELSIOR post

I had 7 imaginary friends who were all bunny brothers and sisters... I was also a bunny. my name was... Funtown.

― peacocks, Wednesday, May 12, 2010 3:27 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark

, Sunday, 11 May 2014 01:04 (4 months ago) Permalink

slam dunk, Sunday, 11 May 2014 03:56 (4 months ago) Permalink

i thought they were real boots for 10 seconds!

mattresslessness, Sunday, 11 May 2014 04:10 (4 months ago) Permalink

"Camouflage" should actually just be a smoke bomb

, Sunday, 11 May 2014 04:13 (4 months ago) Permalink

No seriously, these are all joke candles, right?

Because I want one that smells like victory.

pplains, Sunday, 11 May 2014 05:26 (4 months ago) Permalink

These aren't real, but it's getting more difficult to tell.

pplains, Sunday, 11 May 2014 05:29 (4 months ago) Permalink

"Prostate cancer", "Jizz" and "I don't need directions" scents obviously on the way

it definitely wasn't designed to be a pants pocket player (stevie), Sunday, 11 May 2014 09:35 (4 months ago) Permalink

glad to see you guys have discovered liartownusa

gbx, Sunday, 11 May 2014 16:15 (4 months ago) Permalink

gbx, Sunday, 11 May 2014 16:25 (4 months ago) Permalink

gbx, Sunday, 11 May 2014 16:25 (4 months ago) Permalink

I think at times the "be a MAN" schtick is kind of useful as a stand-in for "be an ADULT," -- something that's kind of useful in an era of prolonged childhood. I mean it's really fucking lame when it gets used as an excuse for retrograde attitudes or GQ-type marketing bullshit - where being a man is equated to being some kind of all around great guy with a perfect smile and a cool haircut.

But still, sometimes I find it helpful to say to myself "Be a man. Stop whining and pick yourself up," etc. even if that has hints of retrograde gender attitudes.

― Bay-L.A. Bar Talk (Hurting 2), Wednesday, December 9, 2009

i sometimes feel this way, too, but yeah, there is a lot of gender stereotyping in that notion, and it's probably better to think "be an adult, ffs." still, when "be a man" is used for marketing and many times generally, i don't think the idea behind it is to equate manliness with being "some kind of all around great guy with a perfect smile and a cool haircut." it's much more base than that: physical strength, aggression to hyper-aggression, quick decision-making, an instinct to protect women and children, a preference for decisiveness and action over thoughtfulness and caution, etc., smashing through things instead of trying to navigate around them. i know a lot of this is media-driven notions and obvious, anyway, but it's amazing how strong a hold these notions have over people (including me). even at 46, i still think back to experiences i had as a kid, and sometimes torture myself along these lines ("why didn't you just swing at them" kind of thoughts).

Daniel, Esq 2, Sunday, 11 May 2014 16:41 (4 months ago) Permalink

Seward started posting those liartown posts last year. Yankee Candle must be fans too.

pplains, Sunday, 11 May 2014 16:53 (4 months ago) Permalink


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.