Holding Doors Open for Women

I hold doors open for anyone and everyone, and I've never gotten a dirty look.

It's the last thing they expect.

Knowing me that's entirely possible.

I was very close to applying some of my own brand of karate-chop justice, but we just left instead.

I sure am tempted sometimes.

What really pisses me off is that some of the women in my building expect it and won't say thank you and others obviously think I'm perving or pretentious and the most natural thing would be to say, "A pox on both your houses," and let people fend for themselves. Most of the guys in my building who aren't senior, big-wig, jefe, the sun-shines-outta my ass types are cool and help other people with doors and whatnot, and some of the ladies in my building seem like lovely people and I don't want a few people lowering the level of frayed civility for all the rest of the nice people. I also think that maybe, just maybe, I need to get a life about this one, eh?

I actually went off at a barman at the pub at RMIT once because of that heh.

I have occasionally offered to carry large/heavy items for acquaintances (yeah, usually female) who look burdened. It is not some kind of assumption that they are weak, just acknowledgment that they're carrying a lot. Recently, the unspoken reaction of my legal writing professor to such an offer has caused me to seriously doubt my wisdom here.

I pretty much always offer to carry things for my friends, even when they'd be left carrying nothing at all. I think because it really causes me no discomfort I take a lot of pride in relieving the strain of others.

Though, once when I was about 7, I was holding the door open in BHS, and people just kept up coming through the door, and my mum had tell me to let go of the door.

i also say thank you whenever some does for me. I don't give men dirty looks anytime but I tend to think they're a dick if they don't hold it for me.

worse than gas station attendants offering to help you first: crackheads helping you. They are the station attendants in these parts.

Lesbians being upset by holding the door?

Perhaps you should tell the trumpeters and heralds to stay home?

(If a mental image makes me giggle, I'm sharing it, no matter how irrelevant the conversation has made it.)

While the necessity of good manners is indisputable, standards for what is or is not polite are somewhat tribal rather than universal in nature. The canonical example would be belching at table as a polite compliment to the host. Some equally apt examples would be eating with one's fingers, making a leg (curtseying), or touching the forelock.

Holding a door for someone who is infirm or overladen is mandatory if you wish to be considered even marginally polite. Holding a door for anyone at any time is a simple gesture of goodwill, but not mandatory. Smirking at the person who shows you goodwill and failing to thank them is just poor manners by any interpretation.

I think the major reason behind the erosion of manners in the USA is growing population density. Living in constant close proximity, amid vast numbers of strangers, increases friction. Under such circumstances, politeness is all the more called for as a social lubricant, but the effect is oftentimes the opposite. At a certain point of stress the lubricant evaporates.

My (tardy) advice would be to do as you have always done, regardless of the lack of appreciation. Do it as a public service. Do it to protect your own self regard. Do it to keep a worthwhile tradition alive.

And, thank you.

You can hold a door open for a woman, but the man is s'posed to walk in first. *That* is elementary, my dear Watson.

You can hold a door open for a woman, but the man is s'posed to walk in first. *That* is elementary, my dear Watson.

This is interesting...

Stairs - Men precede women down, Women precede men up. That way if the lady tumbles, the man will be there to catch her
Revolving Doors - Men precede women. The men apply their naturally greater strength and start the door a'rotatin'.

I am having a hard time figuring out the correct manners...

When leaving my office building, I always let others off of the elevator first if they have ridden longer. This invariably means, however, that they are compelled to open the door for me. So really, given the relative difficulty of standing in an elevator for three more seconds versus opening two doors, I am more doing myself a favor than them (not that this is my goal). This bugs me especially when I am only one of two riders. Should I continue to follow this policy or should I race ahead out of the elevator and hold the door for the other person, possibly at the risk of misunderstanding?

btw this is not a male/female issue i just figured this wasnt quite worth a whole new thread...

Whomever's closest to the doors gets off the elevator first, imo.

i hate to get all stand-up comedy or anything, but a lot of women don't hold doors for people. or am i crazy? is it just something little boys are taught to do and little girls aren't? or am i crazy? just seems like 9 times out of ten if someone is walking in a door ahead of me and they don't turn around and hold it or look to see if someone is behind them it's a...laydee.

my post is totally a male/female issue. sorry!

I think liberation has unfortunately made a certain kind of woman an omphaloskeptic, but then it has done so to men, too, since the old norms of 'society' have been dismatled. On account, I suppose that's proabbaly all for the good, but I don't see why people can't just look out for each other.

I dunno, Scott, but I imagine you're probably right! Most people I interact with where lots of doors are concerned in NYC basically is a commuter, cos I go through Grand Central twice a day. People tend to hold doors, male & female, but then everyone is used to traveling in groups.

Outside of that, yeah, women are probably a lot less likely to check and see if anyone is behind them to hold the door for. It's not specifically taught, although common courtesy SHOULD be in play here, not just some gendered bullshit.

That first sentence is a mess but you understand? In the event that someone is a bit behind you and you have to wait to hold the door for them, I'm more like to hold it/will wait longer for a woman than a man, because women are smaller in general and more likely to wear heels and will have more trouble wrestling a giant old glass and metal door in the wind, or when the granite paving is slippery.

I rather fancy the idea of an ostentatiously gallant and well-mannered lady. It would scare the hell out of a certain kind of neanderthal.

Yeah, but Laurel, she's going to have tog et through it somehow, right? If she's done so on her own, why not see if there's someone on crutches or w/ a baby carriage or whatnot behind her?

how far ahead is too far ahead to hold it open? i always feel bad when i stop to hold the door for someone and they run up to the door so i don't have to wait too long for them, although it just shows that they're polite.

Shh!, that is a weird dilemma that you described upthread. I've come to the conclusion after finding myself oftentimes in similar situations (hallway in my building is extremely narrow and breeds situations like this anytime more than one party is involved in entering or exiting) that it can't be helped that on occasion attempted acts of courtesy are inevitably gonna result in awkwardness and clumsy fumbling, one's best attempts at gracefulness notwithstanding

Also sometimes I find myself maybe giving the appearance of being rude b/c I don't feel like gong through elaborate ritual of performing a favor that, practically speaking, the other able-bodied person in the equation doesn't actually need help with-- so for example, I won't pause the extra few beats in order to hold the door open for someone. Whatever, I'm sure they'll get over it somehow...

i think there is a whole etiquette thing with men and doors that women don't worry about. the waiting thing, the letting a whole group of people thru a door like you are a doorman. or doorperson, sorry. i do all these things and i can't remember anyone telling me i should.

http://991.com/newGallery/The-Hobbits-Men-And-Doors-400167.jpg

how far ahead is too far ahead to hold it open?

For me, if I were to let the door close and it dramtically slammed in their face, that would be too soon. If I'm in a hurry and the person behind me isn't otherwise encumbered or in visible need of a little break, or isn't paying attention (i.e. yammering on their phone), I'll wait a second or two, but not much longer.

xpost - I do those things too scott, even as a lady-person. It's just a small kindness/good manners/watching out for others. Especially when the person behind you is encumbered in some way.

Mr. Jaq otoh was born in a barn/raised by wolves and was never taught to not barrel on through so never looks back and rarely holds the door, even if I'm right behind him.

it's probably worth it for the laughs, though, when other people are around and you can exchange looks with them of "omg, can you believe my spouse is such an ass!"

Yeah, but Laurel, she's going to have tog et through it somehow, right? If she's done so on her own, why not see if there's someone on crutches or w/ a baby carriage or whatnot behind her?

Oh, sorry, I should say: I don't stand aside and hold it like a doorman, but hold it slightly open to give the next person an edge over inertia when they have to re-open it. That's standard, either sex.

There was Sean Micallef skit once about timing in holding doors for people, and it being graded on a curve based on how attractive the person is you're holding the door for as to how far ahead you'll still do it/stand there waiting.

Aha! Here tis:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_td1X_c5Gg

Yeah, but Laurel, she's going to have tog et through it somehow, right? If she's done so on her own, why not see if there's someone on crutches or w/ a baby carriage or whatnot behind her?

Oh, sorry, I should say: I don't stand aside and hold it like a doorman, but hold it slightly open to give the next person an edge over inertia when they have to re-open it. That's standard, either sex.

I do what Laurel does for everyone and think it's pretty damn rude when others don't do this tbh.

Something about my town is so crazy, people practically fight over who gets to hold the door for others here. People of all ages & genders are over-eager to hold open doors for one another. Sometimes two or three people will have their hand on the door at the same time. And everyone always says "thanks" to you if you hold the door. It's kind of freaky.

I agree Erica, because otherwise what youre doing is letting a door swing shut behind you into someone's face, and thats just rude! :/

Yeah, exactly. I always check to see if someone is behind me.

xpost to Abbott

re: freaky politeness, today on the train a seat opened up, and there were three of us standing right by it. I figured I'd let one of the other two have it (because I am so valiantly manly) so I backed up to let the other two battle. Instead, they went back and forth gesturing toward the seat - "no, you", "go ahead, it's fine", "please, take it" - then sighing loudly and rolling their eyes at each other! Finally, one of them took the seat, and the other lady covertly gave me this *smh* look that was like "you BELIEVE this shit??"

it's awk at my office--we have a long walkway from the parking garage to the door so oftentimes it is MORE inconvenient to hold the door (because ppl are far away and either they end up awkwardly jogging or you end up awkwardly holding the door for too long). my attitude is that if the door would close in the amount of time it would take a person walking normal pace to walk to it, u shouldn't hold it. but it's hard to judge!

The worst one with seats is the amount of times people offer me their seat. Presumably because they think I'm pregnant ;_;

I now stand on the tram really self conciously holding my stomach in Zapp Branningan-stylee. :/

re: awkward distances- if someone is holding a door open for me, i speed up for them. fuck leaving someone waiting holding a door open for you.

When you hold the door for someone who is just that little bit too far away and make them break into a jog, do you say anything to discourage the jogging? Last couple of times I blurted "don't run!" and then felt bad for sounding like a schoolma'am telling children off instead of the laidback "oh hey, I'm in no hurry" I was aiming for.

xp oh i totally agree but its still awk for all involved

i think giving them speed tips makes it more awk!

uh yeah i don't cheerlead when holding doors myself, but it might be worth a try. HUT HUT HUT I WANNA SEE SOME FUCKING HUSTLE OUT THERE

Ha, well, I hate keeping people waiting and/or feeling pressurised into hurrying up, so I wanted to reassure people that they didn't need to, except it came out all wrong.

Next time I'll keep my mouth shut and worry that my facial expression will be mistaken for irritation at their slowness or wry amusement at their running technique or something instead.

just act oblivious to yr surroundings at all times imo

ie walk into doors without opening them?

So what about the case when somebody holds the door for you and you say "Thank You" but it is not loud or effusive enough for their liking and they give you a politeness lesson: "What do you say? 'Thank You.' Yeah, that's right."

then they're assholes. teaching other adults manners, especially strangers, is just rude!

someone should take them to task tbh

"Dude, I was one foot away and going to open the door myself. You ran over from the other side to open it and score some points. I had already leaned in to open it myself, as I said before, and my momentum just carried me through. By the time I turned around to thank you, you were ready with the manners lesson."

Next time will do full on forehead-to-the-floor Japanese bow.

So what about the case when somebody holds the door for you and you say "Thank You" but it is not loud or effusive enough for their liking and they give you a politeness lesson: "What do you say? 'Thank You.' Yeah, that's right."

This happened to me at my last job and that girl gave me death stares for about a year afterwards. I said fucking thank you! What kind of prick does that anyway? Oh, Maria already said.

written pre-Hollaback. probably belongs on an etiquette thread, if we have one.

http://splicetoday.com/writing/the-nine-sidewalk-commandments

this thread is a trip

i do have a habit of holding doors open for people and yes i do get gender dysphoria over it, because of course i do

conversely yeah i get gender euphoria when a man holds the door open for me

doesn't happen a lot, i don't have a lot of guy friends i can hang out with in person. being on the receiving end of gendered behavior tends to give me gender euphoria. even if it's unpleasant. i still react to it the way anybody else would to the unpleasant behavior - if someone talks over me, i get pissed - but it's also validating. some of us call it "ewww-phoria". i've heard guys talk about getting it when they walk down the street and smile and wave at a woman and she crosses the street.

i think still having euphoria from that kind of thing, years later, is mostly down to me just not being treated in gendered ways - which is a good thing! where i live, mostly people aren't going to assume my pronouns. i literally get treated like a person. i am also fairly oblivious to my surroundings in a visual sense... if someone is looking at me in a certain way i'm unlikely to notice. same goes for proprioception, i just don't know where people are in relation to me. one of the reasons i have a startle reflex when someone touches me unexpectedly. it has to be something obvious, like someone holding a door open for me or something, for me to notice.

i try to hold doors open for people, but i don't like for people to hold the doors open for me. it's a mess of contradictions. my partner is the same way. they're always rushing ahead to open the door for me. when we approach an entrance we both rush to the door to try to hold it open. they always get there first, it seems, and then i often stand aside of the entryway, for some reason, and ask that they please enter the door (that they opened) first. sometimes i even take hold of the door that they have opened and urge them to go ahead and enter the building -- they've done enough, they deserve it. in general, we run toward closed doors, prop them open, then stand to the side for a few seconds while deliberating over what should happen next. sometimes, during those few seconds, other people enter the building from the outside, or exit from inside. it feels great to help people