itt WOLF HALL the book by hilary mantel and the upcoming hbo/bbc miniseries based on the same

ive probably taked abt this elsewhere but anne of cleves ended up with the title "the king's beloved sister" and later on henry wd go and eat with her in her various nice houses -- he became very fond of her! but not in a queenly way luckily for her :|

she was the last of the wives to pass away, of illness at just 41 or 42, but very nearly in elizabeth's reign

yeah i saw in the author’s note that Henry & Anne became friends
struck me as maybe the most mature interaction he’d ever had with a woman lol

and dumping her for ~katherine howard~
so bloody predictable

i mean bc we all knew from history she was the next wife but aside from that, behaviour = rmde

i like HM's theory: that the person not well represented by holbein's portrait was *henry* rather than AoC, so that when he surprised her (surprises are always a bad idea) she could not compose her face in time at the ghastly sight she beheld and his enormous vanity was wounded; after that the marriage was impossible

if yr rereading a thing to look out for is the way TC's tales of his earlier life subtly shift and change (as he changes)

We're Not So Different the history Podcast did a couple fo episodes of What Ifs recently. This weel's one had a section based around the counterfactual of Arthur the other Tudor brother surviving and Henry dying. I like that show
https://open.spotify.com/episode/3NUkabzRev0me6i9g4dO7u?si=f776c99755594397

xpost yeah hm’s version seems plausible!
plus henry w his bad health & gammy leg surely can’t have looked half as strapping & virile as the holbein portrait makes out

love how the “eel-boy” flashbacks reveals its details over the course of Mirror & Light, slowly unfurling & unfurling with more grim detail
(ie this is the Fight that likely set off Walter’s final beating before TC leaves home in the opening of Wolf Hall)

general question

i’m kinda interested in reading more abt the Protestant Reformation - any book recommendations?

This probably isn't what you had in mind but Q by Luther Blisset is a highly entertaining anarchist historical adventure set during the reformation, in particular the peasants revolt, very politically astute and informative.

Q is a great book for sure

Diarmaid MacCulloch's The Reformation: A History is highly regarded.

oh and Peter Wilson's The Thirty Years War: Europe’s Tragedy is a great read on the fallout

cf also ilxor max's finest ilx hour: the thirty years war

thanks everyone!!

Seconding Diarmaid MacCulloch's The Reformation, I just started it yesterday to complement Wolf Hall. It’s thorough but isn’t impenetrable, and clearly explained some of the theological differences that I couldn’t grasp from reading Wikipedia alone.

This page also recommends London and the Reformation: "This book tells the story of the Reformation in London. It covers a longer period than the 1530s, but gives a good sense of what was happening on the ground and the intense divisions in society that the Reformation provoked. You can read about the high politics of the period in the other four books. This book will give you a sense of how decisions at the top played out on the street." I haven’t read it, though, so can’t vouch for it.

Some good In Our Time episodes, as you can imagine

The Diet of Worms
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0038x8z

Calvinism
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00qvqpz

The Siege of Munster
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00nkqrv

The Dissolution of the Monasteries
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b009jtq1

St Bartholomew's Day Massacre
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p005493t

The Covenanters
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000g3f6

The Book of Common Prayer
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03ct4n4

George Fox and the Quakers
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01f67y4

ooh nice one - thanks for these!!

the diet of worms is the best-named thing which is actually something utterly different

unlike the erfurst latrine disaster, which is exactly what it sounds like :|

Diet of Worms (name-wise) still v funny to me

lol jinx

mm DEE YET of VERMS yeah look no one is going to call it that

also this programme from Beyond Belief on Luther - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/b086nzhk

Thanks, all. I checked MacCulloch's All Things Made New: Writings on the Reformation out of the library.

that Beyond Belief convo was good, thx for that!

The Schama 'History of Britain' series comes with the usual Schama caveats but the Reformation episode is good: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0074l1q

Diarmid MacCulloch's BBC series on the history of Christianity was good. The Reformation episode is here:
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x76hxnf

enjoying the In Our Time convos

i always am amused by how he doesn’t let guests waffle on when they clearly want to and then they try to poke in w extra waffling & he cuts them off or talks over them (feel sorry for them sometimes lol)

y'know i have a ton of Melvyn Bragg grudges but In Our Time is usually pretty great

the podcast is nice because you get that extra 5 minutes at the end where the producer asks if anyone wants any tea and the guests get to circle back to their foreshortened waffleage

that diarmid macculloch series is really good, it's true Chinaski!

that sounds like the sweet antithesis of when i have to watch camera people wank on about hiding up a tree at the end of modern nature docs

have i done Bragg = Ken Barlow yet on ilx

anyways Ken Barlow is a satirical portrait of Melvyn, for better and worse

i subscribed to In Our Time a few years back, but deleted it & this is a solid reminder to get back in

also i enjoy the occasional background cough on mic, or best is the ~audible sigh~ from a guest waiting to speak

those studios have "cough buttons" on the table in front of the guests, who can push them whenever they need to cut their mic if their feel a cough coming on, but not everyone remembers to do it. academics often aren't the nimblest broadcasters

and yeah even if they do use the button, it is picked up in the background - just not as loud

i find it enjoyable

to bring it back to Wolf Hall

i know this may sound a little naive & perhaps even daft but it had never occurred to me until reading these books that common folk hadn’t had access to the scriptures to read for themselves until Luther & all these reformists & be-heathening happened.

*also ironic that I didn’t know any of the protestant reformation history since i grew up Church Of England lol. all i ever knew was “Henry wanted to divorce his wife so he made a church” (which is also true)

anyway

My dad was a Lutheran though he never went to church, and my mom was a Catholic who dragged me and my brother through the whole thing (first communion, confirmation, serving as altar boys, etc.). One day I asked Dad what the difference between Catholic church and Lutheran church was and he told me that in Lutheran church the Lord's Prayer went like this... blah blah blah... and there were only about two words difference between them. I did not exactly have a big breakthrough based on this new information.

my mother in law was Catholic & we used to go to church together at Christmas
i remember she was surprised that I knew the words to mass etc lol

also my first trip to the US i stayed with a devout Roman Catholic family, and i told mum on the phone “there’s crosses everywhere & they have a bottle of holy water in the house!” and she said “don’t tell them you’re Church Of England or they’ll burn you alive”

is there any word on the mirror and the light tv series eta? will it be this xmas?

wait so did they already do Bring Up The Bodies and I missed it?

the series "wolf hall" covers the first two books.

apparently s3 was in preproduction in 2022 but i haven’t seen any updates lately

s2 sorry

theyre reshooting the ending after the first one screened badly with the focus group

tc goes to space

in the last page of Mirror he kind of does!

the audiobook read by Ben Miles is great. i've never been one for those but I gave it a shot and now I think I'm spoiled on any other, it's a tremendous performance.