Maligned Genres aka "I like everything except..."

“a drum stick and a light fixture” xp

I mean, electro swing of course, but

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGH_16SICL0

...is this the founding document?

Polka skeptics, I direct you here

https://www.mixcloud.com/iannagoski/stanky-and-his-pennsylvania-coalminers-a-mixtape/

Handel's Messiah is a good song

God knows I'm no fan of Britpop but landfill was much worse, there was far far more of it for a start.

― Maggot Bairn (Tom D.),

lol "it's all britpop" was a joke re: 'it's all EDM'.

ALTHOUGH >:)
many britpop bands had more personality, but not all of them and landfill bands like the Feeling show a clear lineage from britpop...

The "opera" question is the difference between "this isn't my thing" and "this is on some level pop and, by all reason, should be everyone's thing, and I absolutely hate it."

just occurred to me... y no nu-rave? These days rym use that on anything dancey+indie from that period, not just the 'core' groups.

(To tie several disparate threads together, Peek-a-Boo certainly led to one thing - Bloc Party's Mercury).

In my view it's wrong to say that opera is a monolith, but it's equally wrong to say that there aren't broadly dominant styles of composition and instrumentation and vocal technique in what most Westen people think of as "opera."

In my view, it is perfectly okay to say that "Carmen" is an opera qua opera and "Hamilton" isn't.

Also perfectly okay to say that the style of singing you hear in most opera houses in America and in Western Europe is probably going to be closer to Maria Callas or Luciano Pavarotti than, say, Jay-Z or Weird Al.

The existence of outliers doesn't negate the existence of useful broad categories.

There’s also opera vs operetta to consider, and how to distinguish operetta from musicals

Also, depending on who you talk to, one could argue Hamilton isn’t a opera specifically because tapping isn’t singing, but all of the Andrew Lloyd Webber shows ARE operas because all of the dialogue is sung

DJP otm

lmao I meant “rapping”, don’t know if that was autocorrect or fat finger

At least it wasn't "fapping."

Interesting that a lot of what later became folk and blues seems to actually be traceable back to music written for the music hall. But popularised in the public milieu, like. So is taht far from operetta. Interesting how music develops but not really into it in its original form for prolonged listyening.
Is that true of pop music now, or is teh fact that it has more closely recorded roots going to mean it never gets thought to be a folk music. Just thinking that what makes a folk music is its continued circulation among folk rather than its actual source creation. Though do hope people aren't still singing Oasis in 50 years time .

more proto-electro-swing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PyqELFQslE

Love that track.

early Yello also pioneered electro-polka, but the world hasn't caught up with that one yet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDRnf4_dMB8

A bit funny that the poll option is 'Indie Landfill' not just Indie. Like there are fans of a specific strain due to its Landfillability.

this did actually happen. when i was in high school in the late 00s i knew people who loved the wombats & the kooks etc. but nothing hipper

There’s also opera vs operetta to consider, and how to distinguish operetta from musicals

Also, depending on who you talk to, one could argue Hamilton isn’t a opera specifically because tapping isn’t singing, but all of the Andrew Lloyd Webber shows ARE operas because all of the dialogue is sung

'landfill indie' is an extremely UK term that only people who spend lots of time on ILM understand, IMO

I mentally put a lot of post-Strokes Kings of Leon/Arcade Fire/Vampire Weekend/Killers type of bands in the landfill indie category ('bands who might have gotten a placement on a FIFA soundtrack'). The American version (in my head) is bad enough, scrolling through the band/song names and video thumbnails the UK version looks like it should be a runaway winner here.

It's not an extremely UK term it's an exclusively UK term.

I’ve definitely heard the term Landfill R&B

name names

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indie_rock#Landfill_indie

It's currently the most recent historical period of indie-rock to have its own sub-section on the Wikipedia page

only people who spend lots of time on ILM understand, IMO

i think it's fairly well know in the UK way beyond ILM people.

Someonè I used to know used to call the bands she was going to see Indie schmindie which I assume covers the same type. Continual 2nd on the bill NEVER destined to rise above the morass because non descript. Lacking the vital spark of originality that would lift them to the next level. Playing out of habit. Possibly a good thing to drink to.

But then I'm reminded that Galway used to only let cover bands play in a lot of pubs or that is a lot of pubs in Galway would only let cover bands play.because originality distracted from drinking.

Would hope that one played in a band trying to find something like how to write a good song and express oneself not just to create audio wallpaper and continually rewrite to formula etc.

The old joke used to go:

"There are only two styles of music I don't like, and they are Country AND Western"

And yeah, maybe it's different in the US but over here I often hear people say Country is the worst music ever

Just had a horrible thought, what if Basement Jaxx are the progenitors of electro swing

Not such a horrible thought

Always enjoy some good landfill chat, but I don't see how it's a legit option when it's not a thing the artist was setting out to make.

What were these bands setting out to make I wonder

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7l_5nW0SUNw

What were these bands setting out to make I wonder

a mix between The Stone Roses and Primal Scream with the swagger of Oasis

kinda think psy-trance isn't so bad maybe but maybe i've not heard enough.

― omar little

I can totally understand why it’s hated - it’s too fast, the tracks are all 7+ minutes, it has no swing at all, it’s maximalist to the point of inducing headaches, and the (over)use of “trippy” effects isn’t helping either.

Plus, the fanbase is a combination of drugged up crusty cyberhippies and Russian software developers.

I’m probably one of the biggest psytrance fans in ILM but I can’t really listen to more than an hour of this stuff before it does my head in.

Always wondered if psytrance and Goa trance (which I vaguely remember reading about in the '90s but can't recall hearing much) were the same thing - according to Wikipedia the former evolved out of the latter.

Yeah, goa as the specific 93-96 sound, psytrance as the umbrella genre.

And yeah, maybe it's different in the US but over here I often hear people say Country is the worst music ever

I would bet good money that it is FAR more common for people to say that in the US, as they are much more likely to be exposed to it without wanting to and plus there's all the socio-political culture war baggage.

Always enjoy some good landfill chat, but I don't see how it's a legit option when it's not a thing the artist was setting out to make.

otm, it's a bit like calling one of the options "shitty funk" or something. Fans of electro-swing or psytrane wouldn't be offended if you refered to the genres by their name.

Psytrance I mean. Psytrane also wouldn't offend tho.

For people who don't like Opera I would point you to Kagel's Staatstheater (1970). It's written up as an anti-opera. It's been along time since I listened to it but iirc it goes out of its way to be different.

Is nu-metal like Linkin Park?

(xp) Does it have operatic singing though?

xp yes altho they are probably the lightest shade of it

For truly execrable music choices you really should check out Country & Irish or whatever you want to call the material made over here to the wrong blueprint. Maudlin cliched shite apparently from the heart that appeals to OAPs etc. There at least used to be what appeared to be a large scene creating it.

I feel like 'landfill indie' is a distinct genre though, even if its practitioners might not use that term themselves, it means something more specific than just 'indie that isn't very good'

this did actually happen. when i was in high school in the late 00s i knew people who loved the wombats & the kooks etc. but nothing hipper

sure but presumably they weren't saying they loved it because of how insipid and disposable it sounded

I can see why people would dislike Gabba / Jump Up D&B / Happy Hardcore / Tech House & Psytrance without experiencing them in the correct (huge rig / party treats) environment.

The peril of niche genres with low digital sales but decent money for club sets is that end up with producers making landfill music to attract DJ bookings. So you find (in D&B as an example) when someone comes up with a truly new sound or take on things and then everyone piles on and rinses that idea (often terribly) into the ground for 12 months.

I remember last time I went digging for D&B there were maybe 800 individual tracks released digitally that month, and maybe 50 stood out, and 10 ended up in my box. A good 500 were basically the same Splice samples and serum bass presets, a creative desert.

But at least the decent tracks sounded truly original and brought fresh noises to my ears. Landfill indie is 10000x worse as not only has it all been done before, and better - there luddite guitars only aspect of it all kills the hope of any new sounds or ideas.

Obvs Electro Swing can also fuck off, mainly for the people not necessarily the music

Tldr; disposable club music gets a bye because at least people experiment with sound

(xp) Does it have operatic singing though?

― Maggot Bairn (Tom D.), Thursday, 18 May 2023 bookmarkflaglink

Ha! Kind of...I will re-listen.

shrieked Maoist invective over a single horn drone