Let's talk about Vice Magazine

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The photographer has a real relationship with the subject; it isn't a professional one. (Of course, that walks a fine line re: rockism and sexism, but there you go.)

This does not walk a fine line w/r/t rockism: it gives rockism a fantastic blowjob

Thomas Tallis (Tommy), Saturday, 3 June 2006 14:41 (seventeen years ago) link

i was at a friend's birthday bbq last weekend and there was a big mess left where the people from vice had been hanging out.

HA. i think i was about half a block from going to this.

lauren (laurenp), Saturday, 3 June 2006 14:43 (seventeen years ago) link

you should've come - it was fun.

also nan goldin seemed to have a genuine interest in and affection for her subjects. where as the vice photos tend to have more of a check me out taking this edgy photo over here fratboy artist thing going.

jhoshea (scoopsnoodle), Saturday, 3 June 2006 14:46 (seventeen years ago) link

I've been hating on oxygen thief TR since 1994 at least, and that's before the 'scandal' of the Vice cover lawsuit - which was just shitty snap-and-capture competitive bullshit with another (female) photographer, oh yay big victory for Mr. Knobcheese. Let's just say I was not surprised at all by his behaviour.

suzy (suzy), Saturday, 3 June 2006 14:51 (seventeen years ago) link

it should not pass without comment that this thread contained one of the all-time great Dave Q posts

Anyone who values their own personal dignity over selling records should get out of the business and go live in a fucking treehouse or something

Thomas Tallis (Tommy), Saturday, 3 June 2006 14:54 (seventeen years ago) link

on-topic, though, the "ahead of the curve" meme is so weird & suspect to me: it's like, hey, here's something that sucks & is awful, but Vice was there first (they weren't actually, but let's allow it for argument's sake), so hurrah Vice for sucking ass early in the game? I mean, I'm American, we pretty much invented ruining local cultures (we took cues from the British, but we have elevated it to a vicious science): do we kick ass now that all would-be superpowers emulate us? for that matter, we were way ahead of the superpower curve, are we awesome for that? being there first is only good if the thing you're first at isn't completely lame, which isn't the case here: it's like boasting you were the first to eat your own shit with a spoon

Thomas Tallis (Tommy), Saturday, 3 June 2006 14:57 (seventeen years ago) link

Terry Richardson is an international celebrity as well as one of the most prolific and compelling photographers of his generation. Known for his uncanny ability to cut to the raw essence of whomever appears before his lens, Mr. Richardson's vision is at once humorous, tragic, often beautiful, and always provocative.

hehe

http://www.terryrichardson.com/Start.html

jhoshea (scoopsnoodle), Saturday, 3 June 2006 14:59 (seventeen years ago) link

When your promo material makes you sound like the worst person in the world, it's really time to investigate a new PR firm.

Dan (Holy Shit) Perry (Dan Perry), Saturday, 3 June 2006 15:01 (seventeen years ago) link

Well, Suzy, it's interesting that the female photographer in question got her first big break by knobbing Noboyushi Araki! It takes two to knob, of course. And all the careers in question here are based on people photographing sex (also cats, flowers and stuff like that).

Momus (Momus), Saturday, 3 June 2006 15:03 (seventeen years ago) link

wait, how ahead of the curve was fiona apple? or larry clark? where does the curve even begin?

scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 3 June 2006 15:04 (seventeen years ago) link

i do heart nan goldin. the ballad of sexual dependency. how ruling was that book? man, brings you back, doesn't it?

scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 3 June 2006 15:07 (seventeen years ago) link

where does the curve even begin?

http://curve-online.co.uk/images/discography/scans/1991/anxt27a.jpg

Dan (Helpful) Perry (Dan Perry), Saturday, 3 June 2006 15:07 (seventeen years ago) link

yeah when considered in the context of clark or goldin these people are really not on the curve at all. i guess you could give vice credit for popularizing or commercializing the aesthetic.

jhoshea (scoopsnoodle), Saturday, 3 June 2006 15:08 (seventeen years ago) link

Larry Clark is a good call. But we're getting into "I knew this neighbourhood when only pedophiles and drug dealers lived here and you had to ride a Sherman tank to the subway stop" territory here...

Momus (Momus), Saturday, 3 June 2006 15:10 (seventeen years ago) link

although

http://www.artcomnews.com/artistes2/clark/visu/oeuv01.jpg

1995 again

jhoshea (scoopsnoodle), Saturday, 3 June 2006 15:11 (seventeen years ago) link

i dunno. you are giving vice credit for "starting" something that had been going strong for years and was still alive & kicking as far as i can tell. and not just in dennis cooper books and araki movies either. on MTV even. what with their bulimic cutters getting drunk and vomiting all over people's shoes programming strategy of the 90's and beyond.

scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 3 June 2006 15:14 (seventeen years ago) link

(And this thread is more meta than both. Any racists here, or just people using the word "nigga" protected by layers and layers of meta-quotation?)

Momus, you'll never be able to write Rob Harvilla if you keep all this meta-ing up.

polyphonic (polyphonic), Saturday, 3 June 2006 15:14 (seventeen years ago) link

HALF NAKED bulimic cutters getting drunk and vomiting all over people's shoes even.

scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 3 June 2006 15:15 (seventeen years ago) link

Larry Clark is really rude to Nan Goldin for copying him, FACT.

Fiona Apple was as behind the curve visually as the creative dirtector at her record company. Next.

Niii-iiick, y'think I don't KNOW what photographer is under discussion? And yes I think she was a crybaby hypocrite because I could guess the outcome if she had sex photos she took and wanted to use. They're both schmucks but he's the schweinhund I know.

I was at Francesco Vezzoli's documentary last night and all we did at the party al night was talk about these people.

suzy (suzy), Saturday, 3 June 2006 15:15 (seventeen years ago) link

vice would have to go a loooooooong way just to match jerry springer in his prime.

scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 3 June 2006 15:17 (seventeen years ago) link

larry clark rude? say it ain't so!

scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 3 June 2006 15:17 (seventeen years ago) link

i hear that abel ferrara has horrid table manners.

scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 3 June 2006 15:18 (seventeen years ago) link


"Which other magazines do we have threads on?"


People Who Only Read Literary Fiction, The New York Times, The New Yorker, Harpers, Vanity Fair, Instyle, Us, And Metal Magazines


(this is how boring i have become since my transgressive heyday)

scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 3 June 2006 15:24 (seventeen years ago) link

i have to admit, the recent russian issue was pretty good.

hstencil (hstencil), Saturday, 3 June 2006 15:40 (seventeen years ago) link

Let's talk about Redbook magazine.

http://a820.g.akamai.net/f/820/822/1d/i.ivillage.com/redbook/subscribe/rbkcdsmag.jpg

Kim (Kim), Saturday, 3 June 2006 16:27 (seventeen years ago) link

Haha for the record, I now hate Vice magazine. I think I started hating it a few months after this thread, actually. It really took a nosedive!

Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Saturday, 3 June 2006 16:42 (seventeen years ago) link

don't forget the economist camp.

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Saturday, 3 June 2006 16:50 (seventeen years ago) link

i cant honestly remeber if i was that worked up about vice or if i just really, really enjoyed arguing with momus

jewess harvell (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 3 June 2006 16:53 (seventeen years ago) link

Let's talk about vice, baby
Let's talk about you and me
Let's talk about all the good things
And the bad things that may be
Let's talk about vice
Let's talk about vice
Let's talk about vice
Let's talk about vice

Let's talk about vice for now to the people at home or in the crowd
It keeps coming up anyhow
Don't decoy, avoid, or make void the topic
Cuz that ain't gonna stop it
Now we talk about vice on the radio and video shows
Many will know anything goes
Let's tell it how it is, and how it could be
How it was, and of course, how it should be
Those who think it's dirty have a choice
Pick up the needle, press pause, or turn the radio off
Will that stop us, Pep? I doubt it
All right then, come on, Spin

[CHORUS]

Hot to trot, make any man's eyes pop
She use what she got to get whatever she don't got
Fellas drool like fools, but then again they're only human
The chick was a hit because her body was boomin'
Gold, pearls, rubies, crazy diamonds
Nothin' she ever wore was ever common
Her dates heads of state, men of taste
Lawyers, doctors, no one was too great for her to get with
Or even mess with, the Prez she says was next on her list
And believe me, you, it's as good as true
There ain't a man alive that she couldn't get next to
She had it all in the bag so she should have been glad
But she was mad and sad and feelin' bad
Thinkin' about the things that she never had
No love, just vice, followed next with a check and a note
That last night was dope

Let's talk about vice, baby (sing it)
Let's talk about you and me (sing it, sing it)
Let's talk about all the good things
And the bad things that may be
Let's talk about vice (come on)
Let's talk about vice (do it)
Let's talk about vice (uh-huh)
Let's talk about vice

scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 3 June 2006 16:53 (seventeen years ago) link

i like cat fancy

chaki (chaki), Saturday, 3 June 2006 23:40 (seventeen years ago) link

BESTIALIST

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 3 June 2006 23:44 (seventeen years ago) link

vice vice vice vice

a picture for: " hey look! nothing grosses me out", a place for kids with no identity, to get one :& it keeps moving, like your parents? moving, consuming...

>>your AA is how you treat your precious ones

schanden (ritual), Sunday, 4 June 2006 04:08 (seventeen years ago) link

vice vice vice vice

oooooouch yep.
softcore OFF-MEETS urban-hipster, or you know what? how about just hit undooooo with the x meets y. that sounds so laim toooo!

the only thing that might be remembered abt VICE (as a mag) is the do's and don'ts ;)

schanden (ritual), Sunday, 4 June 2006 04:09 (seventeen years ago) link

The real reason to hate Vice is not because of its politics, but because some dumb cunt named Abby has her bootleg Canal Street ear rings showing up in the next issue. Fuck that fucking cunt ass bitch fucking slut twat fucker. Fuck her and her horse. I hope she dies and never has children because if she does I will fully doubt any possible existance of a benevolent god.

-- Fuck You Abby (Abbyhate...), October 13th, 2002.

Best post on the thread! Did we ever establish what Abby's jewelry line is called?

Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Sunday, 4 June 2006 22:08 (seventeen years ago) link

TIRED / WIRED / EXPIRED >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DOS / DON'TS

Courtney Gidts (ex machina), Sunday, 4 June 2006 23:06 (seventeen years ago) link

vice can be pretty funny... but don't you think that most of the problem some of you have with it is more in the way people assign it a certain value or give it a appraise it as having a certain amount of cultural capital? i don't know if i've ever really agreed (or pointedly disagreed for that matter) with momus, but i do think he's right that they'll be remembered as the harbinger of a certain kind of cool, or brand of cool, or as the flagbearer for a kind of identity that will probably expire soon (when, as momus suggests, it completely does get absorbed by the mainstream... and that's just the thing, some of you seem to be arguing that vice is mainstream and then turning around and saying 'most of the kids at my college probably wouldn't know what vice is'... well, which is it? i know, right? it's both.).

on a completely different plane, both nan goldin and ryan mcginley are capable of taking amazing, beautiful, ecstatic, perfect, amaing beautiful ecstatic perfect amazing, etc, photographs. araki is interesting to me in the sense that i wonder how a person gets away with it. the only level on which terry richardson is interesting to me is to wonder how a person who looks the way he does manages to have gotten as far as he has done. the aa ads are something totally different, namely, ads.

also, tokion is the best magazine (or it used to be anyway before that fuck larry rosenblum bought it a couple of months ago and now we will watch it wither but it used to be so i'll keep buying it for a couple years or so in a vain kind of hope).

firstworldman (firstworldman), Monday, 5 June 2006 05:56 (seventeen years ago) link

also it's annoying and strange to me how a lot of the people on this thread bemoan vice's tone/perspective, and yet in declaring it tired/over, seem to somehow personify this perspective just as fully.

firstworldman (firstworldman), Monday, 5 June 2006 05:58 (seventeen years ago) link

People get bitchy when assholes bite their style!

Dan (Human Nature Pt. 2) Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 5 June 2006 12:03 (seventeen years ago) link

Why don't you admit that I was right: that Vice has been instrumental in setting the tone of this decade, and when we all look back at the style of the 00s, we'll remember something Vicelike?
Other than this being completely fucking wrong; I bet 90% of kids I went to college with don't even know what Vice is.


-- Courtney Gidts (jo...), June 3rd, 2006.

ding-a-ding-ding. one true thing in this orrible thread.

Enrique IX: The Mediator (Enrique), Monday, 5 June 2006 12:09 (seventeen years ago) link

also it's annoying and strange to me how a lot of the people on this thread bemoan vice's tone/perspective, and yet in declaring it tired/over, seem to somehow personify this perspective just as fully.

I'm OTMing that one, meself. It's got a nice shape to it. A snake eating its own tail...

Momus (Momus), Monday, 5 June 2006 12:47 (seventeen years ago) link

A circle jerking against itself cannot stand.

Courtney Gidts (ex machina), Monday, 5 June 2006 12:57 (seventeen years ago) link

Nick, you're wrong about this, and you've been wrong from day one. Please get over it.

J (Jay), Monday, 5 June 2006 12:58 (seventeen years ago) link

to be so i'll keep buying it for a couple years or so in a vain kind of hope).

-- firstworldman (3...), June 5th, 2006 4:56 PM. (later)

Woah, you have to buy it? Are you sure, I've always just seen it in piles next to other street presses. It says 'free' on it.

Who the fuck would want to read that shit if it cost money?

S- (sgh), Monday, 5 June 2006 13:07 (seventeen years ago) link

lol this thread & 'i dont see how anyone could hate puff daddy without being racist' are my 2 favorite trolls ever

and what (ooo), Monday, 5 June 2006 13:10 (seventeen years ago) link

also 'ann coulter is pretty' but i agree w/ that one

and what (ooo), Monday, 5 June 2006 13:12 (seventeen years ago) link

Woah, you have to buy it? Are you sure, I've always just seen it in piles next to other street presses. It says 'free' on it.

Who the fuck would want to read that shit if it cost money?

i think he was referring to TOKION magazine.

phil-two (phil-two), Monday, 5 June 2006 14:18 (seventeen years ago) link

yes i was talking about tokion. but you guys do get the onion for free, we do have to buy it if we want a paper copy.

firstworldman (firstworldman), Monday, 5 June 2006 19:57 (seventeen years ago) link

;_;

Courtney Gidts (ex machina), Monday, 5 June 2006 20:04 (seventeen years ago) link

" ;_; "

are those tears??? all right not even the dos and dont's,
btw I heard terry's weiner is gonna fall off anytime soon now... wash yr hair meets cinemax carpet hairs? add a couple of Op t-shirts a skull of cuorse, what else?

schanden (ritual), Monday, 5 June 2006 21:15 (seventeen years ago) link

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y296/imomus/jessevice.jpg

I'm sure I saw this guy in a shit London metal bar on Saturday night. He was thumbing through a copy of Vice left on the table by someone else and nodding.

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 5 June 2006 21:20 (seventeen years ago) link


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