Which artists legacies have improved/worsened during the 2010s?

Beastie Boys definitely an example of even death not able to stop the critical decline.

Speaking of deaths, Tupac seems to have lost a fair bit of magic over the past decade.

Beck too, come to think of it.

(Except he's still alive.)

Speaking of deaths, Tupac seems to have lost a fair bit of magic over the past decade.

― Siegbran, Wednesday, July 10, 2019 2:33 PM (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink

This is 180 degrees wrong. Kendrick literally banked off Tupac to a Pulitzer

yeah I feel like Pac still resonates, both as music and just as an icon like Cobain, same w Biggie

Beck's still surprisingly huge. He's headlining sheds this summer (albeit over Cage The Elephant & Spoon), and most of his biggest Spotify tracks are from the last 7 or so years.

Huh, then I haven't been paying attention at all.

in retrospect Kid Rock's schtick was a little limited but he has a few moments ... I feel like he should have had more great songs before he turned country than he actually did

He was doing Hank Jr covers by 1993, but yeah, it felt like he could have gone one more album with rapping on it at the time he shifted completely. Now, it seems like a lucky escape.

MES is very nearly irredeemable as a human being

!?!

This is 180 degrees wrong. Kendrick literally banked off Tupac to a Pulitzer

― ILX’s bad boy (D-40)

Google seems to record only a fairly slow decline, but I'm not sure I'm 180 degrees wrong.

The guy w the last #1 rap album in the country posted a photo of pac on his ig stories the day it came out & he’s like 20 years old

Beck isn't quite this but this thread is a factor

that stage where you think they aren't popular anymore but are actually way more popular than they were when they had "buzz"

I don’t think google trends are good measures of critical appreciation

possible that his music has fallen a bit while his image/iconography has kept steady, if not increased

2pac has 10.4 mil monthly listeners on Spotify (and hip-hop streams better on apple music, so who knows what's going on over there)

I won't claim Google or Spotify stats paint the full picture or that I say anything with authority. Those charts are pretty cool, do we feel this one is accurate for example, in terms of relative popularity?

I think Hootie and the Blowfish were mentioned tangentially but there was recently a Jon Caramanica piece in the NY Times saying they were due for a reassessment.

MES is very nearly irredeemable as a human being

!?!

a bully, an employer who created consistently dangerous work conditions for his employees, a public spousal abuser

I wonder if R.E.M. suffered from Simpsons syndrome: the longer they went past their peak, the more their stock diminished, and that period is still relatively recent.

I agree with this -- and it feels like they never really "went away" (see the popular podcast, etc.). They're like uncool uncles always lurking in the background of a family gathering; you can't miss them because they never leave.

I also think even their "best" music ('80s/'90s) is really specific to its era in a way, and isn't likely to prove "timeless" or see a huge revival of interest. Same for an associated band like 10,000 Maniacs.

I think Hootie and the Blowfish were mentioned tangentially but there was recently a Jon Caramanica piece in the NY Times saying they were due for a reassessment.

I work at a ticket vendor and we've had a lot of orders for their tour — yesterday someone dropped $900 to see them. Ten years ago I'd have thought that by now, at best, they'd be doing some nostalgia tour with Deep Blue Something and Blessid Union of Souls at a casino. Must be Rucker's solo career?

xxp Are you referring solely to the onstage assault in NYC in 1998, or other things I'm not aware of?

c'mon dude I'm one of the biggest Fall fans here and I am in total agreement with sic's assessment here

read Brix's autobio for more awful details

I haven't read it, that's why I'm asking. I'm aware he could be a "bully" at times, and I know about the 1998 incident, but I've never heard of "consistently dangerous work conditions" or spousal abuse.

Brix herself didn't seem to find him "irredeemable": https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/the-falls-brix-smith-mark-e-smith-defied-convention-and-definition-202911/

the spousal abuse is well known and was touched on in most obituaries. to be more clear: he just generally was known to be physically violent to people around him including spouses, friends and bandmates

i don't necess agree this makes him irredeemable but quite an unsympathetic character in many ways clearly

Absolute dogshit opinion

― space invaders are smokin penises!!!! (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, July 10, 2019 2:20 PM (ten minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Going to argue “I liked korn when they were underground” abt a band that thrived mallcore era is actually the dogshit opinion

― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Wednesday, July 10, 2019 3:33 PM (forty-four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

They had a platinum record when Carson Daly was still a KROQ DJ, dogg

xp
I skimmed the below obits; none seem to detail abuse beyond the 1998 arrest. If that's what the assessment hinges on, then fair enough, but that doesn't seem to be what you're saying. I agree he's not the most sympathetic character, but "very nearly irredeemable as a human being" is quite an assessment.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2018/jan/24/mark-e-smith-obituary
https://www.nme.com/blogs/nme-blogs/mark-e-smith-obituary-the-fall-2227837
https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/mark-e-smith-prolific-singer-of-post-punk-group-the-fall-dead-at-60-201853/
https://pitchfork.com/news/the-falls-mark-e-smith-dead-at-60/
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/25/obituaries/mark-e-smith-of-the-fall-dies.html

In my world of young people (ie ppl at the basketball courts), Tupac is one of the only pre-2000 rappers they fuck with. I also have heard Redman & WuTang come up on their playlists.

xp. hmm, generally surprises me that they shied away from it so much in the obits. there were definitely more critical pieces around after his death.

is Mark E Smith less redeemable than, say, John Lennon

Or Lou Reed.

yes imo, all squarely in the "almost irredeemable" category with emphasis on the "almost"

Jim - have you read Steve Hanley's book?

Or GG Allin.

2xp

i like how I'm the one being asked to defend calling him irredeemable when it wasn't me who said that

I’m not asking you to defend it (for the record!)

(“One more time for the record...”)

he infamously treated everyone under him (bandmates, sound engineers, roadies, etc.) like dogshit, not only being physically abusive but also prone to firing guys on a whim and leaving them stranded thousands of miles from home. I remember one ex-bandmate talking about lasting psychological damage, how Smith really did convince you that you weren't good enough to work in the music biz, and I suspect there were many others. obviously none of that changes the fact that he was brilliant himself and influenced a lot of great stuff...but yeah...as a human being...

exactly, see also:

https://www.amazon.com/Fallen-Life-Britains-Insane-Group/dp/1847671446

Beastie Boys definitely an example of even death not able to stop the critical decline.

? idk anybody that's revised their opinion downward of their classic era. that Beastie Boys Book seemed to do pretty well.

Yeah I thought that the Beasties were universally loved now

beastie boys are loved but are they "relevant" in 2019?

nothing is relevant

^^^^ speaking as someone deeply unaware of current trends I support this premise

well they refuse to go on without Yauch and won't license out any of their music out so how 'relevant' can it they be now really

sure their influence has diminished in the last couple decades but most of that shouty/quirky rap stuff sucked anyway

current trends = also not relevant

well using a sui generis definition of relevant you've just made up sure.

beastie boys right now feel like the andrew sisters would've felt to someone during the summer of love. sure they're famous and a beloved act for people of a certain vintage, but do they mean anything to mainstream pop (youth) culture? no

i mean this stuff isn't just nostalgia-popular its actively Cool for zoomers & young millennials

― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Wednesday, July 10, 2019

In Scotland it was certainly all the zoomers that were into nu-metal.

there is no such thing as mainstream pop (youth) culture

everything is just a niche now, capable of being completely cordoned off from other niches. some niches are larger than others, but none has a claim to being monolithic.