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I think there have always been fascistic elements to the Batman mythos, Millar just cranked them up.
I mean, here's a really rich dude who spends his free time beating up poor people.

The Huckle-Buck (Horace Mann), Thursday, 13 May 2004 17:33 (sixteen years ago) link

Don't start that again, Huck.

Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 13 May 2004 17:34 (sixteen years ago) link

Did Frank Miller use the newscast-narrative

Elektra: Assassin kind of uses a substitute form of narration -- rather than newscasts, he has people giving Powerpoint presentations.

I'm interested to see how he treats more prominant female characters...

Err, touchy Miller point. Simply put, he doesn't. Elektra is obv. his most notable female character, and he's written one mini series and one graphic novel focusing on her. In the latter, it's told from Murdock's POV. In the former, the series starts out with the first 1.5 issues from Elektra's POV (and they happen to be marvelously written), but then it switches to another man's for the remainder of the series. Mix in boring/flat Sin City women, and his female trackrecord isn't exemplary. (Though maybe Martha Washington, I never stuck around long enough to read all of them, and the woman in Ronin, balance things out.)

Leeefuse 73 (Leee), Thursday, 13 May 2004 18:04 (sixteen years ago) link

The Huckle-Buck (Horace Mann), Thursday, 13 May 2004 18:11 (sixteen years ago) link

Oh my gosh. I went to the library today for the first time in ages -- I'd taken out books and kept them months overdue without actually reading them, which always happens when my books are overdue (I purposely don't read them once they're late, reasoning that it would result in my procrastinating returning them; also I'm spoiled by being able to take books out for a year from the university). Anyway, the summer is great for the library here because the kids are gone, and stuff is actually in: so I checked the graphic novels section, which usually only has part 11 of some manga series and some movie adaptations.

Promethea book 1 and Bendis's Fortune and Glory! Score.

They also have book 2 of Phoenix (the manga, there's a thread around somewhere, I think), so I assume they have book 1 and it's just out.

Tep (ktepi), Friday, 21 May 2004 22:46 (sixteen years ago) link

As much a "read it in order" harsh mistress that I am, I don't think it matters much what order you read Phoenix in.

Leeefuse 73 (Leee), Friday, 21 May 2004 22:54 (sixteen years ago) link

Ooooh, okay. Well, next time I'm there ...

Tep (ktepi), Friday, 21 May 2004 22:59 (sixteen years ago) link

I've got Watchmen out right out, and I started reading it last night when I got back from my big wilderness whoop-up. I haven't read it in about 12 years, when I traded my copy to my friend for his V for Vendetta.
So, first time reading as an adult. I can't believe how much I missed the first 20 times!

The Huckle-Buck (Horace Mann), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 14:33 (sixteen years ago) link

I didn't read it for the longest time just because it seemed like such "mandatory reading," but it really might be the best comic I've ever read.

Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 14:37 (sixteen years ago) link

I just read Promethea, and Watchmen was the first thing to come to mind when I thought, "Why does this pale so much compared to what I expect from Alan Moore?"

Weirdly, my girlfriend -- who is a big fan of League of Extraordinary Gentlemen and much of Moore's current stuff -- was bored by Watchmen. She didn't grow up reading superhero comics the way I did, but came to them after getting interested in comics in general through Preacher and Transmetropolitan, so even though she reads them now, I wonder if that's part of it.

Tep (ktepi), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 14:42 (sixteen years ago) link

I also love reading it now knowing that the Watchmen were all based on the Charlton Comics characters.

The Huckle-Buck (Horace Mann), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 14:51 (sixteen years ago) link

I finished Watchmen about two weeks ago. Wow. Although I don't have as much background in superhero comics as the people on this board, so I believe a lot of the significance flew over my head. Please enlighten me on the importance of the gothic Robinson Crusoe story that runs throughout it!?

x-post x-post sorry

Jocelyn (Jocelyn), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 14:51 (sixteen years ago) link

There are parallels in the pirate story to the main story going on, although I forget them now (supposedly you can figure out the surprise ending of Watchmen if you don't skim over the pirate stuff the way I tended to, but I dunno) -- I guess the main thing, kind of brilliantly, was just the idea that pirate stories, instead of some superhero predecessor like pulp heroes or gunfighters or cops or something, would fill the superhero niche in a world where superheroes were real, and would fit the niche very neatly. And of course, that compatibility is reinforced by the existence of the parallels.

There are probably all manner of things here and there, and there are annotations out there somewhere (did Jess Nevins do them, maybe?).

Tep (ktepi), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 15:01 (sixteen years ago) link

The pirate narrative juxtapositions are some of the most self-consciously clever bits I think, but it's still sometimes jaw-dropping how he'll have upwards of three layers of meaning going on at the same time (i.e. the pirate captions relate to the pirate story, the current on-panel action in the 'real' world, and the larger story going on off-panel).

Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 15:05 (sixteen years ago) link

Is there really a Black Freighter comic by Joe Orlando?

SPOILER ALERT: I can't believe how obvious Rorshach's identity is from the very first panel even. I remember being very surprised the first time I read it. Mind you, I was 12.

The Huckle-Buck (Horace Mann), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 15:07 (sixteen years ago) link

I kept thinking about how I could have written the juiciest Watchmen paper in college.

(x-post, in the first couple pages I thought, "Oh, so Rorshach's that guy...nah, too obvious.")

Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 15:09 (sixteen years ago) link

The Watchmen: Classic, duh!

The Huckle-Buck (Horace Mann), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 15:13 (sixteen years ago) link

Please enlighten me on the importance of the gothic Robinson Crusoe story that runs throughout it!?

It parallels the story of Ozymandias. Ozymandias is the shipwrecked dude, that's why in the end he says something like "I dream of swimming towards a huge black ship", just like the protagonist of the pirate story does.

Here's how it goes: the shipwrecked guy wants to help those he loves, just like Ozymandias wants to help the humanity. He's floating on the back of dead men, just like Ozymandias is, after all those killings to make his plot work. The shipwreck dude uses a white, spotted shark to reach his goal, just like Ozymandias uses Rorschach to muddle his trails. But, despite all his good intentions, the dude doesn't do any good for his loved ones, and instead causes only death and suffering. Just like Ozymandias. This, I think, is rather clever way for Moore to end the story. Though the ending of Watchmen is seemingly open, and the reader is free to judge whether or not Ozymandias did the right thing ("I leave it entirely to your hands."), Moore's own judgement is hidden in the pirate story. In the end, the shipwreck guy realizes he's made a horrible mistake, and swims to the Black Freighter (=Hell).

Tuomas (Tuomas), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 15:32 (sixteen years ago) link

Tuomas OTM.

Of course, there's a meta-version. In a world which actually has super-heroes in it, it's unlikely comics would ever have progressed beyond EC type lines (in the mainstream, at least) and it's questionable whether somebody like Frederick Wertham could actually have had as much influence in the Watchmen world as he did in the real world (given, as he was, a product of US isolationism and Red Fear - which doesn't exist in a world where Dr Manhattan lives. At least not before he gives up on humanity, as shown in the Dr M/Comedian sequence in Vietnam.) therefore why would they ever have fallen out of favour? If they never progressed from EC lines, then Joe Orlando would probably have been still drawing them till his death.

aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 15:41 (sixteen years ago) link

I also got Y: The Last Man Vol. 1 and found it pretty interesting. And The Authority: Relentless in another rare venture outside DC (though not that far outside DC). I think I like Astro City better than the Authority.

The Huckle-Buck (Horace Mann), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 15:55 (sixteen years ago) link

I think I like Astro City better than the Authority.

A dagger in mine heart! I'm pulling rank and excommunicating you, Huck.

Leee's a Simpson (Leee), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 20:22 (sixteen years ago) link

Well, I suppose I'm not really qualified to make a proper assessment, as I've only read one trade each of either. I read AC: Confessions last week and The Authority: Relentless this week. And since Confessions really just concentrated on two characters, that probably explains why I felt like I got more out of it.
Besides, ask @d@m, I have famously cheesy and regressive taste in comics.

Huck, Tuesday, 25 May 2004 22:13 (sixteen years ago) link

You probably ought to have read Ellis's issues of Stormwatch first, since there's a fair amount of character development that prob. informs "Relentless."

Leee's a Simpson (Leee), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 22:31 (sixteen years ago) link

FYI Stormwatch = predecessor of Authority.

Leee's a Simpson (Leee), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 22:32 (sixteen years ago) link

The Authority has never really grabbed me, but I did like Planetary a lot. Huck, that's definitely one of the more "focused" arcs in Astro City, at least to the extent I've read (between moving and not having a pull list for a long time and so on, I lost track after ... Tarnished Angel, I think was the name of it, the arc when Kurt got sick; another very focused one).

Tep (ktepi), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 22:43 (sixteen years ago) link

What can be said of Persepolis (Marjane Satrapi) and XXX (Pandar Bros)?

eeeLastica (Leee), Saturday, 29 May 2004 22:36 (sixteen years ago) link

Persopolis: people who don't like comics like it.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Sunday, 30 May 2004 20:02 (sixteen years ago) link

I'm about halfway through the first Planetary trade and it's pretty cool.

The Huckle-Buck (Horace Mann), Monday, 31 May 2004 13:46 (sixteen years ago) link

XXX is pretty good. Crusty activists fighting against multinational companies in a dystopian future. Still, I'm not sure whether it's good thing that it mixes some sci-fi/action cliches (mutants, ninja assasins) with an otherwise realistic plot. It's a nice read anyway, although I wouldn't recommend it to right-wingers, since it's definitely a leftist comic.

Tuomas (Tuomas), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 19:18 (sixteen years ago) link

There are a couple of really beautiful issues of Astro City which focus on specific aspects of superhero mythology in a warm and intelligent way. I'm thinking of the first issue, where it focuses on Samaritan and his hectic life, which is one of the best Superman stories ever written, I think.
But the longer arcs never quite live up to these one-offs - they become everything Astro City is not : standard super-hero stories, albeit well-written, nicely illustrated superhero stories.

The Authority, much as I loved it during the initial Ellis/Hitch and Millar/Quitely runs, is a standard superhero comic. With more violence, brasher ideas, widescreen imagery, sex and a good energy to it all....I always got the feeling that Ellis had said everything he really wanted to say about superheroes on Stormwatch and was basically just repeating himself with the Authority. But it was still better than 99% of superhero stuff being done at the time.

David Nolan (David N.), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 19:49 (sixteen years ago) link

There's apparently one or more horndog patron at my library who, in the face of comic book nudity, will 1) use a colored pencil to flesh out the woman (and this guy apparently knows how to shade, too!) and 2) rip an entire page out that contains nudity.

Lazer Guided Mellow Leee (Leee), Thursday, 3 June 2004 22:30 (sixteen years ago) link


The coloring-the-woman image is striking. I'm picturing him sticking his tongue out as he does it, you know, like to the corner of his mouth, the way comic strip characters do when they're concentrating -- and beads of sweat on his forehead as he hunches over the drawing table, squinting through his Coke bottles.

Tep (ktepi), Thursday, 3 June 2004 23:06 (sixteen years ago) link

That's weird. And awful.
I paid another visit to the library tonight. The power was out at my apt, so whatever.
Planetary, I loved. But they didn't have any more. Top Ten was also really good and not really what I was expecting. Alan Moore seems to have lightened up a bit. There's a pretty low tragi-factor there and LIKABLE characters.

Anyway, today I got Justice League: A New Beginning, some animated Batman thing and something else that's totally slipped my mind. Damn.
Anyway, I followed that JL series from issue #3 to not quite #50. So I had never read the first two issues in the collection, so that was extremely cool for me. But I'm most impressed at how well those issues hold up. When I read the FKNATJL mini last year, I kept thinking it was so 80s, esp. with Kevin Maguire's slightly Schnabel-esque style. BUt the original stuff (aside from a few of the women's hair-do's, I still can't believe they ever thought taking Black Canary out of fishnets was a good idea) still reads good, it's still funny now that I'm a grown up and I'm pretty sure that a lot of my current sense of humour finds its secret origin in those comics.

Huk-L, Friday, 4 June 2004 04:28 (sixteen years ago) link

Huck, you should try & make the "One punch!" dialogue into a modern-day "Who's On First?" bit.

David R. (popshots75`), Friday, 4 June 2004 12:38 (sixteen years ago) link

the other thing I got was Selina's Big Score, which seems to serve no other purpose but to laugh at me for not buying The New Frontier because it's $10 an issue in Canada and will surely be collected soon for less than $60. Right?
But Darwyn Cook is great. Is he (she?) Canadian, by any chance?

Huk-El (Horace Mann), Friday, 4 June 2004 14:13 (sixteen years ago) link

He. Don't think so. I anxiously await my eBay'd copies of TNF. Huck, you might wanna try there if you're feeling peckish. Also, DC (ha!) wrote / drew another Batty one-shot (_Batman: Ego_), & if you haven't read the first collection of the new Catwoman series, you might wanna (if only to ogle @ DC's kewl artistry).

David R. (popshots75`), Friday, 4 June 2004 14:31 (sixteen years ago) link

In the intro to the pin-up Gallery he sings it "Darwyn Cooke, Toronto."

Hmm, maybe I'll do that, check on Ebay. I picked up the first two TNF, and they're wonderful, but I'm really trying to curb my spending, esp. on comics, lately.

Huk-El (Horace Mann), Friday, 4 June 2004 14:46 (sixteen years ago) link

Aren't we all. I just dropped $50ish on the first three New Frontiers, the 1st 3 of the Millar / JG Jones Wanted mini, a Jack Cole biography, and the first 3 issues of _The Pulse_. And that was after I cleaned out my box at the local comix store after months of neglect (to the tune of a number I shouldn't repeat).

David R. (popshots75`), Friday, 4 June 2004 15:14 (sixteen years ago) link

I hear ya!
I remember when like $20/month was all I needed to get pretty much every comic I wanted.
Mind you, I've trimmed down lately. I'm only regularly buying Green Arrow, Flash and Superman/Batman (I'm not sure why though).

Huk-El (Horace Mann), Friday, 4 June 2004 15:22 (sixteen years ago) link

Oh yeah, but I just started getting Gotham Central. But S/B has got to go.

Huk-El (Horace Mann), Friday, 4 June 2004 15:22 (sixteen years ago) link

Michael Turner is a plot killa. Less washboard abs, more out of proportion MALE torsos.

David R. (popshots75`), Friday, 4 June 2004 15:50 (sixteen years ago) link

It just seems like they're needlessly stretching out these storylines for tpb purposes. Crips, I remember when you could save the world, protect your secret identity and build a giant robot in an 8-page back-up story and still have room for a moral.

Huk-El (Horace Mann), Friday, 4 June 2004 15:58 (sixteen years ago) link

It's like Loeb et. al. are making up for all the stuff that happened in the first 6 issues by having next to nothing happen in the next 6.

LOEB: "So there's this new Supergirl, and, like, Superman's all on her because she's from Krypton SUPPOSEDLY, and Batman's all jealous like 'Hell no she's a freak!' so he contacts Wonder Woman to whisk her away to Amazonia or whatever, but then Darkseid wants some of that too, yeah? So he raids the place, kills that blue-helmet chick from Crisis, and takes her away."

ED: "OK, so what happens in the next issue?"

LOEB: "Next? Dude, that's the plot for the first THREE issues!"

Why I made Jeph Loeb sound like a Yale Repetory reject auditioning for the O.C., I dunno.

David R. (popshots75`), Friday, 4 June 2004 16:04 (sixteen years ago) link

Have we even seen Lois Lane in this title?

Huk-El (Horace Mann), Friday, 4 June 2004 16:48 (sixteen years ago) link

Leee in "not rating anyone not named Rucka" shocakshs, I've found most things Darwyn Cooke related disappointing. I have the Selina's Big Score tpb, but only because of a bangin Mignola pinup in the back. Ego was all talk, and as far as cartoony stylee goes, I far prefer Shane Glines (who hasn't actually pencilled anything afaik).

Lazer Guided Mellow Leee (Leee), Friday, 4 June 2004 20:34 (sixteen years ago) link

I think Lois is too busy being an amoral spineless shrew in Chuck Austen's Action Comics to bother starring in the latest Bruckenheimerian S/B production.

David R. (popshots75`), Friday, 4 June 2004 20:43 (sixteen years ago) link

Leee, The New Frontier is a big step up for Darwyn Cooke. Really beautiful, clever, witty writing.....makes most of DC's superhero stuff look like the mediocrity it is.
But I'm waiting for the trade. Or the Hardcover. Sorry, Darwyn.

David Nolan (David N.), Friday, 4 June 2004 23:20 (sixteen years ago) link

Y'know who else is cartoony and great? Phil Hester (and don't forget his loyal inker, Ande Parks). His Green Arrow stuff is terrific fun, it gives the title a nice breeziness to it that allows the writing (when there's good writing, and sometimes there is, most often there is) to almost sneak up on you.

Huk-L, Monday, 7 June 2004 04:28 (sixteen years ago) link

one year passes...
Hee hee, It was barely a year ago when I was still all dewey tailed and bushy eyed. Now I'm a hardened cynic. ROCK ON.


Went to the library last night and scored some Greg Rucka NOVELS. Turns out there's this huge section behind the Graphic Novel shelf that has books without pictures.

I also got:
Batman: As the Crow Flies - Wow. Dustin Nguyen is awesome. Now I have a much better idea of how much he brings to the Mahnke awesomeness (a lot).
Avengers: Supreme Power - I haven't had much luck getting into the Avengers, but what the fuck. It's free.
Scene of the Crime - Brubaker & Lark! Together again for the first time! Or something.

Huk-L (Huk-L), Friday, 19 August 2005 15:03 (fourteen years ago) link

I picked up 15 graphic novels at the library yesterday, and unashamedly talked to the checkout guy about catching up on the Lost Years (post '94 non-collecting) and how great the library was for this. If he'd been an Onion indie record store gal, it'd have been more awkward, but as it was, fun letting the geek flag fly!

Borrowed Perez's "Gods & Monsters" Wonder Woman book, the latest Y trade (with THE EXPLANATION), Rucka's Superman "Unconventional Warfare" (which looked great, skimming it - seemed like they've done a good job modernizing the characters), a Way of the Rat trade (also looks great), the two Green Lantern & Green Arrow trades (the pointing, the pointing!), and a pile of others. All freeeeeeeeeeeee.

scamperingalpaca (Chris Hill), Friday, 19 August 2005 19:02 (fourteen years ago) link

Queens Central and Mid-Manhattan libraries: I kiss you both for all the great comics you've lent me.

Currently reading Macedonia by Pekar, Roberson and Piskor.

RR, Friday, 19 November 2010 08:32 (nine years ago) link

one year passes...

Not comics related, but the publisher Penguin is planning on making its tiles available as e-books:

calstars, Thursday, 5 July 2012 20:45 (eight years ago) link

So I went to the Public Library last night, and they had a decent selection of "graphic novels"! The librarian looked at me like I was a moron when I brought an armload of "graphic novels" to the check-out desk, particularly when I said "They're for my kid."
Shame makes me lie.
― The Huckle-Buck (Horace Mann), Tuesday, 4 May 2004 14:12 (8 years ago) Permalink

Hahaha. I did the same thing a few weeks ago, finding several dozen hardback trades at the local library that I hadn't read. Walked out with a 7" stack of trades - good one stop catch-up.

the body of a spider... (scampering alpaca), Friday, 6 July 2012 17:43 (eight years ago) link

one year passes...

i like this place. mine has giant windows that look out over an old cemetery.

très hip (Treeship), Sunday, 23 March 2014 20:32 (six years ago) link

today they told me i qualify for a free membership even though i'm not a borough resident because i work for the school district.


très hip (Treeship), Sunday, 23 March 2014 23:45 (six years ago) link

six months pass...

The reading room at the ny pubic library is closed.

calstars, Friday, 17 October 2014 22:42 (five years ago) link

My old library in Round Rock had "The Death Ray" and "Locas Vol 2," making me very, very happy indeed.

RAP GAME SHANI DAVIS (Raymond Cummings), Tuesday, 21 October 2014 01:09 (five years ago) link

four years pass...

QBPL has changed their logo, color scheme and website.

Theorbo Goes Wild (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 6 April 2019 02:14 (one year ago) link

What comics did you get, though?

blokes you can't rust (sic), Saturday, 6 April 2019 17:22 (one year ago) link

Ha, sorry, realized that later.

Theorbo Goes Wild (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 6 April 2019 17:36 (one year ago) link

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