The Watchmen: Classic, duh!

"Well, despite being a "superhero" comic, Watchmen is otherwise quite credible and realistic, that's why the ending always struck to me as silly. I don't think the alien could've brought such a peace between the Russians and the Yankees as seen on the last pages of Watchmen, and the fact that Moore had to back the ending up with the psychic's brain bit seems to imply that he wasn't so sure about it either. Anyways, within a few decades people would still have forgotten the alien and the cold war would be back in effect, unless Ozymandias would keep bombarding the Earth again and again with new aliens. So he'd eventually lose anyhow."

(i doubt those tags mean anything, but they were intended to reduce the size of the letters above)

Yeah, it was done while I was doing Watchmen, or just after or something, I'm not sure which but it was too close to Watchmen. I mean, Brian [Bolland] did a wonderful job on the art but I don't think it's a very good book. It's not saying anything very interesting.

Granted, it's not as ambitious as Watchmen, but geez!

Eddie Campbell tells the story in How To Be An Artist about as accurately as anybody is willing to confirm. (Basically, Billy The Sink dropped out after #2, Al Columbia was drafted in as a Sink-a-like but fell out with everyone over a girlfriend. He destroyed #3, burned what he had started of #4 and disappeared.)

I think the ending is an important part of Moore's views on superheroes (at that time: in a recent interview he said "I had a bad week 15 years ago and everyone's still suffering"): the path that starts "you will do good or we will beat you up" leads swiftly to giant mind-control aliens and The Big Lie in general.

And now Ned with the news...

Does he lie about killing them? this must be researched.

-- Jordan (j0rdanc0h3...), May 25th, 2004.

...but didn't anyone notice that at the very end of the comic book, in the last panel, seymour the new frontiersman office assistant guy is fumbling his hands through the papers in the 'crank file', indicating that he eventually may find Rorshach's Journal.?

and remember, it is Rorschach's journal which contains the trail leading to Ozymandias's plans, which if uncovered could threaten the world peace Veidt created.

hence the symbolism of the ketchup stain landing on seymour smiley face shirt, forming the bloodied comedian logo, implying the comedian (and the war-centric worldview to which he belongs) will have the last laugh.

I don't think the bloody smiley is a symbol for The Comedian, rather than for the whole comic (remember, the blood stain implies the death of Comedian). But Moore hints elsewhere what he thinks will happen after the ending. The sailor in the pirate stroy is obviously Ozymandias' alter ego; Ozymandias even tells he sometimes dreams of swimming towards a great ship. In the pirate story the sailor tries to save the ones he loves, but his attempt is misguided, and he fails horribly. So Moore is implying Ozymandias will eventually loose. In the end, Moore the anarchist thinks people's freedom to decide is more important than anything else. This is the biggest irony of Watchmen: in the final chapter, Rorschach the fascist becomes the hero, whereas Ozymandias the left-wing vegetarian is the villain. No matter how much we (and Moore, no doubt) revile Rorschach's ideological views, we have to sympathize with him for refusing to accept Ozymandias totalitarian plan.

From another viewpoint, Moore is saying that Ozymandias has already lost.

I agree, but that's sort of the whole theme of the comic. Imperfect perfections. Like the whole symmetry/mirror image thing - I guess most of you have noticed that chapter five has a symmetrical structure; each panel has a corresponding mirror image panel. So the fist panel of the chapter corresponds with the last panel on the first row of the final page, etc. And the two middle pages form a symmetrical image - Ozymandias hitting a guy with statue, so that they're bodies form an big "X". (X is kinda like the symbol of the whole story, just like V was that of V for Vendetta - in V the direction of the story is linear, down and up, whereas Watchmen is all about choices, crossroads, open endings. Seymour can either pick the book or not.) But for the whole story to be symmetrical the mirror image should be between chapters 6 and 7 (because the whole story has 12 chapters), not in chapter 5. So it's a broken symmetry, just like with the bloody smiley, just like with Comedian's face. Imperfect perfection.

Note: I didn't come up with these ideas by myself. If you have lots of spare time, I'd suggest visiting this excellent Watchmen site.

21 Notes on Watchmen 2, excellently thought by Tom Spurgeon

a formative experience a tiny bit further in the past than Fantastic Four #1 one was when the Moore/Gibbons series hit the stands.

I was too young to read Watchmen when it came out, but holy shit is this a sobering fact

And by sobering, I mean "the comics audience lies so far to either side of this that it'll never really occur to most people how disconnected this is"

My own disappointment in Darwyn taking this job is that it's keeping from doing his own comics based on material that he's come up with himself. I've enjoyed the vast majority of his comics work, but really want to see him do his own thing. But then again, it's not any of my damn business which jobs he chooses to do or not do.

I thought the WATCHMEN flick tried to have its heart in the right place and made some horrible missteps along the way that made me really not like it at all. Less reverence would have served the film far better. Granted, 99% of the audience didn't read the source as I had, but every shot call out to the original material just jumped right the hell out and reminded me that it was a shadow cast by another work.

I thought the Watchmen movie sucked.

the Watchmen movie thread on ILX was very ugh

I haven't seen all of his films, but the only thing of Zack Snyder's I've found tolerable was his Dawn of the Dead remake!

But back to the point: that tumblr repeatedly posting the cover image of the Azzarello series is way, way on point.

The point of Watchmen was that it was a cynical take on the genre. I mean, there have been series already playing out such takes -- like The Authority and the entire history of post-Watchmen inward-looking comics. The best part of the story was that the characters were cutout archetypes. Once you flesh them out, they're no longer just cutouts and the original series has a different context and... ugh.

I thought the WATCHMEN flick tried to have its heart in the right place and made some horrible missteps along the way that made me really not like it at all. Less reverence would have served the film far better.

That's just it -- it was a reverent adaption by someone who had somehow missed the whole point

The comic's strength was in showing the sketchiness of the whole superhero endeavor, that each character had their own reasons for doing it and their own human strengths and failings. Treating the idea of their being superheros seriously. The point of the movie was LOOK MOM I MADE A SUPERHERO MOVIE THAT IS SERIOUS.

His DAWN OF THE DEAD is really good until it becomes just a sorta regular action movie and then tries to lower the boom at the end. But man, that first 15 minutes are gripping.

Fast Company cobbles together a bunch of different statements from Moore into a faux-interview-statementy-thingo.

Been reading the Before Watchmen series, started out with what I presumed would be the best one, Cooke's Minutemen series. And it was shockingly good!
Question that's killing me though - who is the blonde-haired orphan ("Jacob"?) in the serial killer's photo (from the Comedian's final story) supposed to be? Adrian?

FIRST LOOK! #DoomsdayClock #1 has what I think is the coolest lenticular cover ever. Thank you, Dave! @1moreGaryFrank @bdanderson13 11/22/17 pic.twitter.com/UltJCZFI6G

— Geoff Johns (@geoffjohns) August 30, 2017

thought for a minute that that was a heart at 12 o'clock. not sure if the actuality is better or lamer.

i am powerfully unhyped for this

I wish I had Photoshop installed so I could turn those blots into Alan Moore's face, a middle finger, and three dollar signs.

This is like when young people like shitty bands and it makes you feel old, except the young people are older men and it makes me feel completely neutral

lol

http://variety.com/2018/tv/news/watchmen-hbo-damon-lindelof-1202818921/

Those original twelve issues are our Old Testament. When the New Testament came along it did not erase what came before it. Creation. The Garden of Eden. Abraham and Isaac. The Flood. It all happened.

Sounds like he has the inevitably overwrought ’tude toward the subject matter...

Damon Lindelof's Watchmen

Ah – I steer clear of ILE

Shivers at the phrase "true fans"

Uuuugggggghhhhhh

Rorschach may have spoken truth, but he wasn't a hero. Enter a new mystery in RORSCHACH by @TomKingTK and @jfornes74: https://t.co/OHw9cO3Qtt #DCBlackLabel pic.twitter.com/NkBQQQuaRs

— DC (@DCComics) July 15, 2020

I saw the graphic comic. His mask is actually a woman’s dress.

— EvanBarracuda14 (@EvanBarracuda14) July 15, 2020

*mind blown*

i'll give it a chance because i still like Tom King

also DC Black Label has been retaining good cover designers

That 'Batman: Damned' book is really nice. I have it on my stack to read next.

hope Alan enjoys this. maybe after watching the tv series

in his flat in London

Alan famously resides in his hometown of Northampton, sic. surprised at that from you

I base all my Alan Moore knowledge on the public statements of Zack Snyder, as fact-checked by entertainment media

Anyways, within a few decades people would still have forgotten the alien and the cold war would be back in effect, unless Ozymandias would keep bombarding the Earth again and again with new aliens.

just finished the tv show and saw this early thread comment !

ahh ... just re-read - its a quote from an AM interview.
that makes more sense now.

perhaps AM gave lindelof some pointers

Along with his blessing.

If Dr. Manhattan had just destroyed all nukes on earth, like the Star Child in 2001 or Superman in Superman IV, there wouldn't be a need for any of it.

that's not a quote from Alan Moore, it's a quote from Tuomas!

Wait...did no one ever tell you? Perhaps you should sit down for a moment.

alwayshasbeen.jpeg

morrisp you forgot Alfie O'Meagan from The Nth Man

I've never heard of that! (I specialize in Kubrick & Golan-Globus; I'm fuzzy on everything else.)

This is the I Love Comics board, what do you mean by coming over here with no knowledge of a series set completely outside the continuity of every other comic book in publication that only ran for 16 issues three decades ago

(did that sound like sic? if so please be assured I am only joking)

It totally did sound like sic! Lol

that's not a quote from Alan Moore, it's a quote from Tuomas!

― Piven After Midnight (The Yellow Kid),

so it is.
apologies.
thought he was referring to the AM interview linked above as opposed to quoting himself on a dead ilm board.

TBF, I'm sure many people who've read the comic have thought of Veidt's plan as being flawed in that way, Lindelof included.

If Dr. Manhattan had just destroyed all nukes on earth, like the Star Child in 2001 or Superman in Superman IV, there wouldn't be a need for any of it.

This is discussed in the comic, and Dr. Manhattan admits he probably couldn't destroy all the nukes in time before some of them hit their targets, so that option is off the table.

I don’t recall that, but not surprised it was addressed (why does he have to wait for their launch to be imminent, though? he can’t just teleport around the globe and vaporize them on the DL?)

(Tho I guess the nuclear powers could always just built more nukes... which is a variation on the continuous-squid problem being discussed. How do you truly end a cold war, etc.)