2014 what are you reading thread

i was roommates with Ed when he started pitching that one-shot; it was intended to stretch the Vertigo brand conceit to its breaking point and the ridiculousness of its elevator pitch was not lost on him.

I'm still picking up new references in Sandman (like the barely-mentioned Fashion Thing character, who, as the Mad Mod Witch, had her own stint as a horror host).

Re: crossovers in Vertigo. I thought it was an uncomfortable mixture to have superheroes in some of those titles. Moore's Swamp Thing is the only Vertigo run I ever read the whole of and I think the guest stars rarely strengthened it, Etrigan's riddles were fun, some of the Spectre stuff was cool but most of it didn't help the story of the plant guy.
Crossovers only really work for me when the shared universe element was a major feature to start with, otherwise I feel it's a rude interruption. Lots of writers used to complain that they wanted to tell a story of a character and then got big crossovers forced on them.

I think if Moore could do it all over again he'd not work for DC but have a comic called Plant God. But again, it's difficult to imagine these things happening without DC having a stable of artists and characters to reinvent. I just wish the whole British invasion could have just stayed in Britain with creator owned books that Americans could read. DC was attracted by what was happening in Britain, so if everyone stayed I think the attention would have kept gathering. The rates would be lower but the fruits would be better.

I'm curious about Caitlin R Kiernan's Vertigo work.

Old Lunch and anyone else- just asking what runs you liked the best and what it was they did well.

(there's a vertigo thread. might be a better place for this)

/ILX/ThreadSelectedControllerServlet?boardid=57&threadid=210

Lots of writers used to complain that they wanted to tell a story of a character and then got big crossovers forced on them.

*raises hand*

the second issue of my run writing Robin (#101) was a mandated, inescapable crossover event with Young Justice (of all things), and I was informed of this fact AFTER my script for the first issue of my run was already locked in. Meaning any tension generated by the end of my first issue had to be punted offstage for this interdimensional something or other garbage event where I had to hit notes D, E and F. Then find a way to get back to stage position where I'd left off. Had irl panic attacks over this.

Did not realize you'd written any mainstream stuff! Yes, I can imagine being thrust into a crossover with no lead time would be incredibly frustrating. Although...is that when Peter David was writing Young Justice? Because I thought I remembered him being pretty vocal about his lack of appreciation for having crossovers thrust upon him.

(I moved the Vertigo-specific conversation over to the Vertigo thread, btw.)

I don't know why I said "used to complain" because these huge multi-title crossovers are worse than ever now. Maybe writers of superheroes today fully expect to deal with this. There was a period in the late 90s/early 00s when Marvel said they were trying to avoid this but that didn't last long.

I feel like Marvel is doing a much more elegant job of it nowadays, at least inasmuch as the elements of a given crossover don't usually feel quite as forced or perfunctory as they used to. I think there's a lot more pre-planning and I'm sure the writers involved have plenty of heads-up. Although there's certainly an argument to be made that a lot of individual flavor is lost when everything is just a discrete component of a larger, neverending tapestry.

xpost the writer of YJ at the time was Todd somebody. My editor owed his editor a favor or some shit like that. The plotting/concept of the crossover was godawful. I mean, it would have been fine if I'd known in advance about it.

I managed to stay on the title for 21 issues, by the end of which DiDio had taken a dislike to my work. Until the last few issues I loved doing it, tbrr. Pete Woods was the artist on almost every ish which was a lucky stroke on my part. Dylan Horrocks, who was writing Birds of Prey at the same time as my Robin run, put it perfectly after we both got canned when he described it as "the best job I never felt I had".

Oh, yeah, that was that weird period when Horrocks did Batgirl and Gilbert Hernandez also did a stretch on Birds of Prey, yeah? I would've loved to see DC go more in that direction, but I figured even at the time that editorial interference would wind up deep sixing anything really interesting.

fuck i'm an idiot. yes, dylan on Batgirl. Beto very very briefly on BoP.

i wanted to write the book as 'teen investigator in funny outfit confronts weird paranormal shit' which in hindsight was a stupid angle to try on that particular property.

these things all happened in the bat group when bob schreck was the group editor; I think that goes a long way to explain that little burst.

xpost You'd like to think there's room for that, but, yeah, I can imagine trying to do anything really different with the deeply entrenched Big Two properties is like hitting your head against a wall.

it wasn't anything all that different, I mean it would have totally flown on a different title, maybe even a different title in the bat group. Just wasn't a good tack to take for that particular book.

~lyfe~

~regretz~

yeah but that doesn't even seem to make business sense! look at the archie editorial policy and how well they're doing just trying off the wall shit to see how it impacts. You can keep canon for movies and "mainstream universe" titles but i imagine a creator driven beto wonder woman book would probably at least double in circulation and get a shit ton of press so why aren't DC aggressively fighting that direction rather than trying to reboot the reboot of their reboot? It's just dumb.

like, fuck, give this guy above me Swamp Thing for fucks sake! See what happens!

R.A.G, again, I also contributed to 1001 Comics To Read Before You Die so caveat emptor, but that book's coverage of 'foreign' comics is the best of any English language survey, imho. Funnily enough, some of the American comics choices in the UK/American edition were dropped from some of the European editions (so, surprise, the French version of 1001 Comics... has a lot more French comics to read before you die.)

I distinctly remember finding out that Beto was writing Birds of Prey when I saw his name on one of the covers, several issues into his run, and thinking, "surely, it isn't the Gilbert Hernandez I'm thinking of or I would've heard something about this."

Ward- That's odd. Another thing I though was a mistake was the UK edition having Dredd on the cover, I think it should have tried to attract a wider variety of people with a less genre-specific cover.

I heard Beto got shit from a lot of people for doing a DC title.

yeah but that doesn't even seem to make business sense! look at the archie editorial policy and how well they're doing just trying off the wall shit to see how it impacts. You can keep canon for movies and "mainstream universe" titles but i imagine a creator driven beto wonder woman book would probably at least double in circulation and get a shit ton of press so why aren't DC aggressively fighting that direction rather than trying to reboot the reboot of their reboot? It's just dumb.

― Look at this joke I've recognised, do you recognise it as well? (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, July 15, 2014 2:24 PM (15 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

It COULD have made good business sense if they'd played the angle up from their PR dept (whoa shit indie cartoonists writing bat books hey look entertainment weekly) but I don't think I appreciated at the time that titles didn't really get promoted unless they were already a hit; just like with the indie auteur things I did it would have been up to me to go line up interviews and stir up enthusiasm. Like, they did make a press release when me, Dylan, Beto, Anderson Gabrych were put on the titles but that was it, they then just waited for us to dry up and expire.

And if such a comic was a roaring success, they'd base a movie on it and all sorts of merchandise but not pay the creators properly (if at all).

Yeah, but I think most creators acknowledge that going into the deal these days.

yeah I wasn't worried abt that. Page rate was ok and they paid fast once you turned the work in. And there would be royalties if things went to trade (LOL they are never gonna collect these robins in a million years).

What about royalties from digital versions?

I didn't realise Gilbert Hernandez actually was doing a little Wonder Woman thing.

he's not that i'm aware of? i was just using that as an example. i wish he would.

http://comicsalliance.com/gilbert-hernandez-sensation-comics-featuring-wonder-woman-dc-digital-first/

Finger on the pulse, there, forks.

huh. well it makes sense.

kinda but still weird

Another DC imprint called Helix focused on science fiction, including a Lucius Shepard series called Vermillion (wonder if there is a prose version?), Some titles got carried over to Vertigo.

What about royalties from digital versions?

If Jon's issues were available digitally, DC would start paying out at 60,000 sales.

lol Transmetropolitan started on helix

yeah, i have those somewhere. with the exception of that and matt howarth's book i think i hated every helix comic i read

which reminds me, 2020 Visions was an awesome comic that was never collected by Vertigo, but has a b&w collection. I would almost recommend finding the original though.

Been looking at loads of Dave McKean covers, never released how much he resembled Vaughn Oliver and Quay Brothers.

Yeah he is almost a quay biter tbh

they're quay better

Dockwood - Jon McNaught - just caught up w/ this guy, gorgeous illustrative cartooning set in a small English town, equal parts Chris Ware and Phillip Larkin

So I just got in that mood, and re-read The Life and Times of Scrooge McDuck for the umpteenth time. It really is one of the great novels of the nineties. Every time it returns to Scotland, it just gets me.

preach

I really should pick up that book

i probably already said this but ms. marvel and the wicked + the divine are both killing the shit out of everything rn and you should be reading them

adorable guest appearance (arc??) with wolverine in ms marvel this month

Journey Into Mystery aside, there's a combination of smugness and emo and try-hardiness about Gillen's comics that I find completely toxic. I totally get his appeal. But his characters are spanners.

I love Ms Marvel though!

i don't disagree with you about the tone but they do generally make for good readin' nonetheless

So guys, what was the last comic that really knocked your fucking socks off?

For me the best parts of Miura's Berserk did that. The second volume of Phoenix by Tezuka was close to that. Sadly both of them were last year I think.