London ILB - FAP?

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Me and bloke are going to be in London at the weekend. I'm mostly hanging out with my cooler younger brother, but would love to meet up for a pint either tomorrow night or Friday night. Anyone up for it?

accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Wednesday, 5 May 2004 15:20 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Tomorrow night might be do-able. Do you know central London at all, 'monkey. I would suggest The Champion: http://ads.adviva.net/serve/v=300;m=3;l=1191;c=1676;b=9045;ts=20040505172906

I am doing a phone interview at 6 - but should be there by 7.15 or so?

Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Wednesday, 5 May 2004 15:29 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Hmm that link doesn't look right. It's on Wells St, north of Oxford St, anyway.

Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Wednesday, 5 May 2004 15:31 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Gotcha. 7.15 sounds excellent. We will see you there.

You will know me easily. I am a large woman with glasses and long red hair, usually accompanied by a tall bloke with glasses.

accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Wednesday, 5 May 2004 16:19 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I guess a lot of people have left work already and this thread will see more action tomorrow. I will certainly be there, though. Mikey? PF? etc? Maybe we should put a link on ILE, also.

Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Wednesday, 5 May 2004 16:25 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Marvellous. I greatly look forward to waving my hands in front of my face and saying 'Jesus, people still smoke indoors here? It's like the Dark Ages or something'.

accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Wednesday, 5 May 2004 21:17 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I shall try. I really ought to be painting the doorframe in the bathroom. Rock 'n' roll. I shall have to talk to my woman and see if I can get a leave of absense.

Mikey G (Mikey G), Thursday, 6 May 2004 07:17 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

accent monkey, there should be a few people coming now (myself included). Will be there 7ish. If you see a bloke with glasses in a blue shirt walking around peering expectantly at people, that'll be Mikey G.

Mikey G (Mikey G), Thursday, 6 May 2004 14:14 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Brilliant. Have drunk half a bottle of wine already in nice cafe on Titchfield St. Will see you later.

accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Thursday, 6 May 2004 14:28 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

In that case, I'll be the blurry good looking guy in the blue shirt.

Mikey G (Mikey G), Thursday, 6 May 2004 14:33 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

'Half a bottle of wine'

the finefox, Thursday, 6 May 2004 15:03 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Sorry I couldn't come - not well at the moment.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 6 May 2004 17:14 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

L-R: Mikey G, Accentmonkey, Starry Sarah, Jerry the Nipper, Mark S, The Pinefox.

Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Friday, 7 May 2004 09:04 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Well look at that. You really do love books!

Archel (Archel), Friday, 7 May 2004 09:27 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

We didn't say a word to each other. All night.

Mikey G (Mikey G), Friday, 7 May 2004 09:39 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

L-R: Mikey G, Accentmonkey, Starry Sarah, Jerry the Nipper, Mark S, The Pinefox.

the Fox's nose is very distinctive.

DV (dirtyvicar), Friday, 7 May 2004 11:26 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

It was nice to meet Sarah's disembodied head.

Mikey G (Mikey G), Friday, 7 May 2004 12:11 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Yay!!!! What a great picture. Hope you guys had fun. And look at that, Mr.Sinker showed up for the festivities. The Pinefox is a wiley creature. Where's the rest of him?

scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 7 May 2004 12:38 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

L-R: ?, ?, Ian Sansom's "Ring Road", ?, Jonathan Coe's "The Rotters' Club".

cozen (Cozen), Friday, 7 May 2004 13:12 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Dammit! If there are any ILB ppl in VT, let me know and we can meet up, too.

Oh, it's just me? .. I thought as much.

Hey, did any drunks guys come over to your table, like, "Oy! Wot you prats doin' readin' in a bar?? You're all lucky you got so many pints in front of you or I'd kick everyone one of you asses!"

Vermont Girl (Vermont Girl), Friday, 7 May 2004 14:14 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I fell asleep on the bus on the way home and missed my stop.

Mikey G (Mikey G), Friday, 7 May 2004 15:18 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I knew a girl from London who knew she'd fall asleep on the tube whenever she rode home from clubs/parties so she would hold a little card that said "Please wake me up at [whatever stop]."

And someone always woke her at the right stop.

Vermont Girl (Vermont Girl), Friday, 7 May 2004 16:34 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

...by peeing on her.

Casuistry (Chris P), Friday, 7 May 2004 17:07 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I hadn't imagined The Pinefox as a Jonathan Coe fan.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Friday, 7 May 2004 21:25 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Not my copy, Martin. But I have read that book and I still think WACU! a really major achievement, as I must have said many a time.

The FAP was grand.

The Irish folk at the FAP were much keener on coemdy Irishness than the other Irish ilxors.

We discussed Donnybrook.

the bellefox, Saturday, 8 May 2004 14:29 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I agree on WACU - loaned a copy to a friend years ago, and have never had it back. I think I have indeed heard you say that before.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Saturday, 8 May 2004 15:15 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

The Irish folk at the FAP were much keener on coemdy Irishness than the other Irish ilxors.

they are TRAITORS!

DV (dirtyvicar), Saturday, 8 May 2004 15:50 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Ah no, not traitors - been in London too long. Seduced....

David Nolan (David N.), Saturday, 8 May 2004 22:57 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

This picture proves why mothers the world over warn their children - do not accept online invitations to "meet"! Pints will be left languishing as everyone reads a different book! It's criminal, and those to blame should be brought to justice.

aimurchie, Saturday, 8 May 2004 23:32 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Pints were not left languishing, I can assure you.

Books were.

the pintfox, Tuesday, 11 May 2004 11:50 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I still haven't made it home yet.

Mikey G (Mikey G), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 14:21 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Me and Bloke just got home from ten days of being Up and In in Paris and London. It was lovely to see all the ILBeanies in the pub. It was great to see you all.

Have had lovely holidays. Now, back to the books.

accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Sunday, 16 May 2004 12:12 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

That was Pelham: Or Adventures of a Gentleman for me, and I believe that was also my copy of the Rotters Club being THUMBED by the PF.

Sarah (starry), Thursday, 20 May 2004 08:20 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

five years pass...

ILB FAP: 2009 edition. I'd be fine for a drink any day next week Monday-Thursday.

As for pubs: maybe go for one along Borough High Street?

xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 16 June 2009 21:57 (nine years ago) Permalink

Monday or Thursday would work for me, and Borough High St is A1 for me too.

woofwoofwoof, Wednesday, 17 June 2009 08:55 (nine years ago) Permalink

Thursday's best for me - working a 12 hour shift the other days. Borough High St always a good place to go for a drink.

GamalielRatsey, Wednesday, 17 June 2009 11:54 (nine years ago) Permalink

hey julio, im gonna be down in london next week so pl post details here - hope to come along

Ward Fowler, Wednesday, 17 June 2009 12:05 (nine years ago) Permalink

i don't live around london. tho i am heading up there for the weekend for the meltdown concerts and maaaay still be around monday/tuesdayish. can't say for sure, though.

thomp, Wednesday, 17 June 2009 14:39 (nine years ago) Permalink

hey Ward! This is good timing - hope to see you too. We'll keep details here.

thomp - Oops I knew about meltdown but didn't know if you were going to be around later that week.

Unless Gamaliel can make it Monday (doesn't look like it) I'd say next thur? Looking at the options how about this one just off the main street - Old King's head - but if you all have another option in mind then do tell.

http://www.fancyapint.com/pubs/pub473.html

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 17 June 2009 21:08 (nine years ago) Permalink

I'll revive thisILE thread now for casual ILB-ers (or otherwise) who might want to come along.

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 17 June 2009 21:17 (nine years ago) Permalink

Unless Gamaliel can make it Monday (doesn't look like it)

I really can't unfortunately. Awkward customer I know - the toad work. I will have an ILB FAP by myself on Thursday if it's not possible for others though, to make sure I pay my alcohol/reading duties.

GamalielRatsey, Thursday, 18 June 2009 07:06 (nine years ago) Permalink

That's not awkward at all! See you and everyone who can come next Thursday.

Should be at the Old King's from six-ish, I shall be reading and drinking if I don't see anyone.

I'll say which book on the day :-)

Might bother to do a 'Balkanized' ILX London FAP thread over at ILE on the day of the meet.

And thomp - if you're in London later this year etc let us know and we can arrange a FAP (although I might see you on Sunday, I guess?).

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 18 June 2009 20:07 (nine years ago) Permalink

Will def be along on Thursday, and will similarly post book-holding details (tho' Gamaliel and I can identify one another - we go back)

woofwoofwoof, Thursday, 18 June 2009 22:20 (nine years ago) Permalink

I might be back from Brighton in time for this FAP. Then again, come to think of it, I guess I don't know anyone who's going to it.

the pinefox, Thursday, 18 June 2009 23:52 (nine years ago) Permalink

Pinefox we have been in the same FAP several times. I think you also have talked to Ward Fowler.

xyzzzz__, Friday, 19 June 2009 19:07 (nine years ago) Permalink

bit odd how the board has an entirely different clientele to last time. feels a bit like housesitting.

but, yeah, see you sunday maybe. i'll be hanging around the bar reading the bantam edition of dhalgren, i should think.

thomp, Friday, 19 June 2009 22:48 (nine years ago) Permalink

New generation, innit?

I shall look for the Dhalgren (bantam ed.)

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 20 June 2009 09:25 (nine years ago) Permalink

did anything happen with this FAP?

it's nice to know that people think they've been at a FAP with me, but I doubt that I could walk into a bar and say 'hey, aren't you xyzzz__?' I don't think I can even pronounce it.

the pinefox, Monday, 22 June 2009 17:50 (nine years ago) Permalink

It's on Thursday. xyzzz is usually my last utterance of any evening in a pub.

GamalielRatsey, Monday, 22 June 2009 17:52 (nine years ago) Permalink

I was thinking Viv.

Scottish Country Twerking (Tom D.), Thursday, 23 August 2018 09:16 (three months ago) Permalink

*ends the ILB FAP by slapping everyone who fails to pronounce it to rhyme with mole*

mark s, Thursday, 23 August 2018 09:55 (three months ago) Permalink

with a great deal of regret that i won’t be making this tonight. lousy work.

give them a slap for me mark. tho also there’s a great deal of pleasure to be had by making snob booksellers wince by saying POW-WELLL.

Fizzles, Thursday, 23 August 2018 18:30 (three months ago) Permalink

AP himself used to ask people how they pronounced the name of Robert Lowell

Ward Fowler, Thursday, 23 August 2018 18:36 (three months ago) Permalink

in which it was concluded

i: perry anderson is the capt haddock of the NLR
ii: but not -- despite the old college try -- the dave q of the LRB
iii: part three will surely be where it all starts jumping

mark s, Thursday, 23 August 2018 23:05 (three months ago) Permalink

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bashi-bazouk

the pinefox, Friday, 24 August 2018 07:55 (three months ago) Permalink

two months pass...

Sad 😞 times. Just found out my favourite pub in London is going to be ruined. The landlords lease expires in January at the Royal Oak in Tabard Street at Borough. Get there soon before it turns into a Gastro Pub. Recommend the Salt Beef Sandwich pic.twitter.com/3prDgXutGe

— Richard Cousins (@rwjc22) November 10, 2018

woof, Sunday, 11 November 2018 12:23 (one month ago) Permalink

I was just thinking about a new ILB FAP this morning :-(

xyzzzz__, Sunday, 11 November 2018 12:47 (one month ago) Permalink

Looking through the comments:

The Harvey’s pub in Wandsworth, The Cat’s Back, is a splendid example of a local. Makes me think The Royal Oak will not be cut down.

— Eddie Fremantle (@eddietheshoe) November 11, 2018

xyzzzz__, Sunday, 11 November 2018 12:53 (one month ago) Permalink

(1) Hi Matthew. Our Estates Manager response:"The Royal Oak is our great London local, full of charm & character which our long standing tenant Frank, and his partner John, have nurtured over the last 25 years. Frank has decided to retire in January when his lease ends...

— Harvey's Brewery (@Harveys1790) November 12, 2018

Sounds like the news isn't particularly bad (I bet it ends up feeling a bit more gastro-y though). NEVERTHELESS we shouldn't allow this good news to deter us from having a FAP at some point. Early Dec?

Tim, Monday, 12 November 2018 14:34 (one month ago) Permalink

i may be able to bring hard copies of the book along for SOME OF YOU

(lol the uncertainty continues re exact pub date)

mark s, Monday, 12 November 2018 14:38 (one month ago) Permalink

Just glad I was able to make it there before this purported change.

Buckaroo Can't Fail (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 12 November 2018 15:06 (one month ago) Permalink

ok this time I will definitely make it. Definitely. If I can.

woof, Monday, 12 November 2018 15:15 (one month ago) Permalink

I am trying to get out of my work xmas dinner which would be on the 1st Thurs of December. Can we do the last Thurs of November to ensure my attendance.

Otherwise pray for me.

xyzzzz__, Monday, 12 November 2018 17:44 (one month ago) Permalink

But aren't you handing out the secret santa gifts this year, xyzzzz___?

I'll be there, I was there just the other week saying to my friend, and this too will go one day. As long as it's not next week. Or the week after.

Fizzles, Monday, 12 November 2018 20:41 (one month ago) Permalink

No, haven't you heard that Secret Santa is cancelled this year?

xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 13 November 2018 09:23 (one month ago) Permalink

Will be at FAP if possible.

Would like to see Mark's book.

Concerned about Oak, though Harvey's tweet encouraging.

the pinefox, Tuesday, 13 November 2018 10:19 (one month ago) Permalink

I don't think I can make the 29th but I can make the 6th.

Tim, Tuesday, 13 November 2018 10:31 (one month ago) Permalink

Do it on the 6th, will attend if possible..

xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 13 November 2018 11:43 (one month ago) Permalink

will be there.

Fizzles, Wednesday, 14 November 2018 07:49 (four weeks ago) Permalink

I'm in.

Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 14 November 2018 11:05 (four weeks ago) Permalink

Nope - can't make that.

the pinefox, Saturday, 17 November 2018 10:25 (three weeks ago) Permalink

two weeks pass...

Still on? Will try to come after work.

Monica Kindle (Tom D.), Wednesday, 5 December 2018 18:27 (one week ago) Permalink

its on

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 5 December 2018 21:42 (one week ago) Permalink

I’ll be there.

Tim, Wednesday, 5 December 2018 21:53 (one week ago) Permalink

Regrets. Cheers

What is Blecchism ? (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 5 December 2018 22:06 (one week ago) Permalink

me too, with some books!

(no sleb-signed upper-level extras yet tho i fear) (kickstarters are a lot of fiddle it turns out)

mark s, Thursday, 6 December 2018 13:22 (one week ago) Permalink

I see xmas has come early..

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 6 December 2018 14:43 (one week ago) Permalink

6ish for me i shd think

(it was super-rammed on friday btw -- also ridiculously hot -- and we decamped elsewhere) (but friday be bein friday i guess plus it was amateur month eve)

mark s, Thursday, 6 December 2018 15:30 (one week ago) Permalink

I'll be aiming for 6ish also.

Tim, Thursday, 6 December 2018 15:32 (one week ago) Permalink

unless the title has changed wildly, the verso book abt psychedelia and 60s folks as working-class mind expansion has not yet appeared on its lists (even slower than me lol, maybe they ARE making him rewrite it)

mark s, Friday, 7 December 2018 10:29 (six days ago) Permalink

I wish we'd got around to talking about Ravilious earlier in the evening, I think there's something interesting in there but a soberer me could surely have done better than something something woodcuts something Wedgwood.

Tim, Friday, 7 December 2018 10:42 (six days ago) Permalink

raviliouuuuuuuus! *shakes fist*

mark s, Friday, 7 December 2018 11:03 (six days ago) Permalink

(i walk past his house sometimes. it's one of the many blue plaques on 'my' stretch of the thames (morris, doves press, some more...)

koogs, Friday, 7 December 2018 11:17 (six days ago) Permalink

Aw, sorry I forgot about this! Next time.

Daniel_Rf, Friday, 7 December 2018 11:21 (six days ago) Permalink

Next FAP sould take place the week we leave the European Union.

xyzzzz__, Friday, 7 December 2018 11:58 (six days ago) Permalink

I had a work lunch and started drinking at 12.
I was not capable by 6
capable of anything

woof, Friday, 7 December 2018 14:05 (six days ago) Permalink

You'd not have fitted in with this enormously capable bunch.

Tim, Friday, 7 December 2018 14:16 (six days ago) Permalink

by association a line from dead of night spoken by the german psychiatrist just popped into my head – 'My dear boy, I am not accustomed to solving complex problems with the casual ease of your Brains Trust'

i will try and retrieve the dregs of what i was trying to say about ravilious (without pulling the face I pulled).

my day generally has been going much more slowly than anticipated.

Fizzles, Friday, 7 December 2018 14:23 (six days ago) Permalink

I love Eric Ravilious.

the pinefox, Saturday, 8 December 2018 09:08 (five days ago) Permalink

(post post observation – sorry this is so so tl:dr)

so, i'm not sure I'll be able to put down anything coherent (which is probably just as well), but I did retrieve my notes on the Eric Ravilious exhibition at the Dulwich Picture Gallery a few years ago. I didn't know his work beforel, so these were first impressions on a single exhibition. and i haven't got the catalogue but someone did buy me Bawden, Ravilious and the Artists of Great Bardfieldfrom their time in Essex. Also includes Edward Bawden, John Aldridge, Bernard Cheese and Sheila Robinson, Walter Hoyle, Michael Rothenstein, Kenneth Rowntree, Marianne Strawb, and there's some lovely stuff in there.

I know the first thing that struck me in the exhibition was the presence of discarded machinery in pastoral landscapes. I scribbled 'material objects like Kipling' by which I think I meant, an intrinsic interest in the aesthetic qualities of engineering and purpose. this is not to say for Kipling certainly that this is some Futurist crash bang wallop aesthetic, but the non-traditional beauty of efficient purpose, the new environmental qualities our mechanical productions bring, of, if you like animate inanimacy (the mechanical paradox).

couple of opaque scribbled lines:

the bric-a-brac of a previous age, just, that seems to point to a future different to that of human history – bus on barrels pointing to the sun

http://a68.tinypic.com/mv0r5j.jpg

i'm struggling to recapture exactly what I meant by that, but i think it was a sense of a sort of recent history archaeology – things we no longer want or use, but imbued with formal or even ritual significance that implies also discarded meaning.

i have a bad mental tendency to abstraction and allegory in mediums I'm not very fluent in - that's the plastic art and music, so i kind of missed the pictorial elements that gave me that lenten thought:

  • the underpopulated nature of his pictures – the reason i assumed that archaeological aspect is because there's no fucker around. my immediate response to this sort of thing is that it looks like 'an alien landscape' as a consequence; a not very useful ahistorical description, but it gives the idea of 'what are these and what did they use them for?' of objects in his pictures
  • the bleached nature of his 'starved brush' watercolours. this is immediately striking of course, and it didn't strike me other than in a 'these look different' sort of way, but it's the main thing really, and again, moves away from immediacy to other lights, other times and towards a formal emphasis on line
  • 'pointing to the sun' - well yes, this was part of the point. this wasn't a traditional way of doing things - pointing into the sun created a flattened image. Apparently he and Bawden used to compete for hardship when painting (out in the rain, on top of roofs, facing into a blinding sun etc).
material=secret life humans – south coast beach of a life confined.

humans engaged in an activity subsidiary in importance to the meaning of that which they inhabit or contemplate or have ceased to inhabit. the meaning of the world is in these objects (inc rooms)

we enter them as we might realms of consciousness or meaning.

no real idea what that latter part means, but detailed, well observed objects and materials are insightful to people. his great interiors say 'these are the materials and things people who have been in this room have seen and contemplated, and with which in some cases they have chosen to surround themselves (in the book, the chapter on Ravilious regrets that he didn't do more of them as he was so good at them).

http://a65.tinypic.com/2gshit2.jpg

tangles are imposed upon the picture indifferent to perspectives and structures

structures are vivid – there is a comedy and life to the objects – a chirpiness

chirpiness is right, but 'humour' is better than 'comedy' unless i was pointing to some sort of physical comedy (of which that bus on barrels is possibly a good example). the indifference to perspectives i've already mentioned. it's too strongly stated, but flattening things out you can almost see the objects as hieroglyphs.

alien objects almost - contain the tension of hidden or static purpose - sweep and curve of lines, represent the vector on which they appear in the material world (ships screw)

greenwich observatory - more lines of cryptic intent, mysterious vectors

religious bit – these look like pure objects, items deprived of their meaning with a formal importance.

https://pallantbookshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Ravilious-Observatory.jpg

i love the almost ornate almost Byzantine behaviour of the implied lines of direction here – meridian and weather. That Byzantine feel was what led me to buy a print now hanging in my bedroom, uncharacteristic, but still containing much that is definably Ravilious:

http://a66.tinypic.com/2ujmpg5.jpg

going through these notes, it's clear i was waaaay too obsessed with line though I have said further down

light is also an object to which my response now would probably be 'the objects are also light that's painting u fule'.

the lines give everything a tilt, they direct the content

the long lines of access into an object and later - mystical access.

the same lines that give access to the beyond are also those that give the beyond access to the object

and i was also obsessed with the 'object' of the painting, without taking into account how he took the pastoral line and changed it from classically influenced and sculpted landscapes to a new one that was given to him by his observation of the Sussex landscape. He reminds me slightly of some of Samuel Palmer's etchings sometimes, and he captures the South Downs perfectly, so that when I'm there, I see it with eyes influenced by Ravilious' paintings.

I think this is probably all too mystical, too religious, though the sussex downs and pastoral are vehicles for a southern english version of pastoral mysticism – John Ireland, Jocelyn Brooke, and with the addition of a version of Ravilious' detailed understanding of objects, though in his case the minutiae of dolls houses and chinoiserie, Denton Welch. In Ravilious' case it is not influenced by the detail of that mysticism (roughly Roman military + Eleusinian + late neolithic/beaker/bronze age stuff). his mysticism is softer

The second painting I bought was a consequence of this thinking, and was late in the exhibition, and is the one that now strikes me, even irritates me, as platitudinous and lacking the pleasure of the other paintings:

http://a68.tinypic.com/2m2jghe.jpg

as i wrote in my final note:

as if they are labouring at some ultima thule on the brink of existence but going through the laborious toil - process, material delivery.

Fizzles, Sunday, 9 December 2018 11:44 (four days ago) Permalink

the bric-a-brac of a previous age, just, that seems to point to a future different to that of human history

is the technical term for this "hauntology"? (i mean, i think it is, but we may not much want it be given what it's now yoked to)

mark s, Sunday, 9 December 2018 11:53 (four days ago) Permalink

That’s the term I’ve seen

What Do I Blecch? (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 9 December 2018 12:20 (four days ago) Permalink

i guess it is exactly that, but i've become so wary of it as a term that it didn't occur to me. also, even using it with a greater sense of its origin still gives me a strong urge to look at why Ravilious, or rather the impact of Ravilious on me, is *not* that. also, to rephrase slightly a sentence above, this is the bric-a-brac of a *just-past* time, rather than a nostalgic one, so i'd want to exclude notions of longing, confining it even more to its original ontological category. (Nostalgia always making a generational jump or two, socially - in its personal form the jump is climacteric, rather than generational).

(The presence of that last picture above the posts here really doesn't help!)

i was about to write that i'd want to exclude sentiment entirely from the 'haunting' aspect of Ravilious here, but that's clearly absurd. The role of nostalgia and sentiment generally in 20th century pastoral is hard though – it comes back into that painfully complicated set of spaces and vectors and influences in specifically English folk.

Fizzles, Sunday, 9 December 2018 12:37 (four days ago) Permalink

also i'm not sure this way of looking at Ravilious does him any favours – I'm hoping for Tim to come along and say 'what utter bollocks, that's not how I see him at all'.

Fizzles, Sunday, 9 December 2018 12:39 (four days ago) Permalink

Tell me about this Bernard Cheese...

Monica Kindle (Tom D.), Sunday, 9 December 2018 13:33 (four days ago) Permalink

Illustrator and printmaker. Chapter written by Chloë Cheese.

http://a68.tinypic.com/ra910k.jpg

Fizzles, Sunday, 9 December 2018 14:09 (four days ago) Permalink

Inclined to say Hauntology is like Postmodernism -- some interesting materials and ideas, let down by a daft and distracting label.

the pinefox, Sunday, 9 December 2018 18:03 (four days ago) Permalink

Good point, pfox.

What Do I Blecch? (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 9 December 2018 18:27 (four days ago) Permalink

A few bits and pieces on Fizzles's interesting notes:

Archaeology of abandoned (or near-abandoned) hardware has a couple of contexts, I think. One is the first world war, and I am reminded of Paul Nash's WW1 landscapes. It seems to me that at this point in history, hardware in a landscape has to carry some of that weight.

https://gerryco23.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/paul-nash-sunrise-inverness-copse-1918.jpg

https://gerryco23.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/paul-nash-void-19181.jpg

I'm also reminded of (Eric's son) James Ravilious's photographs of North Devon in the early seventies*, my favourites of which are not the perfect landscapes but the ones where old crap is being used and re-used, put to work in the countryside.

I can't find a pic of the image I'm thinking of but this will do for now.

http://www.jamesravilious.com/photos/31.jpg

My point being that in addition to the painter-friendly contrast of industrial detritus decaying in a rural setting there's a tension between unavoidable WW1 memories and a warmer sense that everything will be put to good use.

Another context for finding apparently incongruous stuff strewn around a landscape is surrealism, of course - I don't know enough to guess whether ER was having fun finding apparently surreal juxtapositions in the real world - a busted bus balancing on barrels! - and rendering them in a more-or-less naturalistic way, but it doesn't seem impossible.

The matter of colour: for me, the starved brush colours are what saves many of his lanscapes (for me) from being too comfortable. Even when his landscapes are rolling hills without the (often-used) wire fences or bric-a-brac, even when the sun's blazing the colour palette means they're never fully luscious.

https://apollo.imgix.net/content/uploads/2017/07/1736.jpg
https://www.theblankcardcompany.co.uk/acatalog/Eric_Ravilious_The_Causeway_Wilthshire_Downs.jpg

These are about as luscious as he gets and even here the summer greens are hardly bursting out at you; for me that always stops these images feeling like smug bucolic little Englandness.

(*Probably due to my personal history of having moved to Devon from the Home Counties as a four year old in the mid seventies, but I find JR's photos from Devon in the 70s far more evocative than old spooky public information films or whatever: at once unchanging but utterly lost and utterly graspable, very haunty.)

Tim, Monday, 10 December 2018 13:52 (three days ago) Permalink


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