ILM Ballot Polls for 2014 and beyond -- order, timing, "I would have voted if I'd known about it," etc

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Happy New Year, list-makers.

A. Pavement - Johnny Fever (finished)
B. Manic Street Preachers - Jamie_ATP (finished)
C. Blur - Nasty, Brutish & Short (finished)
1. Pet Shop Boys - Billy Dods (finished)
2. Beatles - Mark G (finished)
3. Prince - Jamie_ATP (finished)
4. U2 - Ismael Klata (finished)
5. Beach Boys - iatee (finished)
6. Led Zeppelin - WmC (finished)
7. Timbaland - some dude (finished)
8. Guided By Voices - Johnny Fever (finished)
9. Stevie Wonder - Eric H. (finished)
10. “Producers” - Shakey Mo Collier (finished)
11. Pulp - Finefinemusic (finished)
12. James Brown - strongo/Shakey Mo Collier (finished)
13. Jacksons - Jamie_ATP (finished)
14. David Bowie - WmC (finished)
15. Paul Simon - Lamp (finished)
16. Rolling Stones - rogermexico (finished)
17. The Kinks - C. Grisso/McCain (finished)
18. Depeche Mode - crüt (finished)
19. Beastie Boys - Johnny Fever (finished)
20. ABBA - donna rouge (finished)
20B. Bee Gees - Shakey Mo Collier (finished)
21. Neil Young - clemenza (finished)
22. Fleetwood Mac - Clarke B. (finished)
23. The Cure - nate woolls (finished)
24. Kate Bush - Ismael Klata (finished)
25. The Who - Tarfumes the Escape Goat (finished)
26. Joni Mitchell - Mordy (finished)
27. The Neptunes - V79/some dude (finished)
28. Saint Etienne - Billy Dods (finished)
29. Hüsker Dü - Pleasant Plains (finished)
30. Bruce Springsteen - Jamie_ATP (finished)
31. Madonna - Johnny Fever (finished)
32. Miles Davis - WmC (finished)
33. The Fall - Mark G (finished)
34. PJ Harvey - Nasty, Brutish & Short (finished)
35. Cocteau Twins - Le Bateau Ivre/LeRooLeRoo (finished)
36. Sonic Youth - ArchCarrier (finished)
37. New Order - Bee OK (finished)
37B. The Doors - Ismael Klata (finished)
38. The Clash - Gukbe (finished)
39. Motown Singles - a hoy hoy (finished)
40. Jay-Z - some dude (finished)
41. Elton John - Johnny Fever (finished)
42. Stax - seandalai (finished)
43. Disco - Tuomas (finished)
44. R. Kelly - Spottie_Ottie_Dope (finished)
45. Tom Waits - chap (finished)
45B. Velvet Underground and Solo Careers (finished)
46. The “Classic Rock” Canon - some dude
47. Elvis Costello - kornrulez (finished)
48. Roxy Music/Bryan Ferry - charlie h
49. Pink Floyd - Elvis Telecom
50. Steely Dan - Bee OK
51. Bob Dylan - tipsy mothra
52. Sleater-Kinney + offshoots - C.Grisso/McCain
53. Outkast - The Reverend
54. Autechre - Leee
55. Brian Eno - WmC
56. Chic Organization - Donna Rouge
57. Spaceman 3 (& descendants) - Elvis Telecom
58. Radiohead - nate woolls
59. Yo La Tengo/Dump - clemenza
60. P-Funk - Shakey Mo Collier
61. Stooges/Iggy Pop - flopson
62. The Boo Radleys - Bee OK
63. XTC - Shakey Mo Collier
64. Italo - daavid
65. Emo/Screamo/Mallcore/(post)Hardcore - Mordy
66. Creedence Clearwater Revival - crüt
67. “Epics” (non-classical division) - Leee
68. Hard Rock/Hair Metal - how’s life
69. Extreme Metal - Viceroy
70. Stephin Merritt - Gukbe
71. Pixies - Johnny Fever
72. Metallica - Pleasant Plains
73. Spoon - Bee OK
74. Nirvana - Gavin, Leeds
75. Fairport Convention et al (R Thompson, S Denny) - Billy Dods
76. Queen - charlie h
77. Dinosaur Jr. - Z S
78. Tom Petty - rogermexico
79. Ramones - tipsy mothra
80. Jimi Hendrix - WmC
81. Sightings - Raymond Cummings
82. John Coltrane - Tarfumes the Escape Goat
83. Stereolab - Moka
84. Bauhaus/Tones on Tail-Love and Rockets/Peter Murphy - Bee OK
85. Genesis + solo - NickB
86. The Smiths - nate woolls
87. Pearl Jam - VegemiteGrrl
88. The Burt Bacharach songbook - WilliamC
89. Dead C - Raymond Cummings
90. Royal Trux + side projects - Drugs A. Money
91. John Fahey - Naive Teen Idol?
92. Rush - Matt #2
93. Oasis - darraghmac
94. George Michael - Ismael Klata
95. Talking Heads - Bee OK
96. Gamble & Huff/Philly International Records - jetfan
97. Van Halen - Johnny Fever
98. Billy Joel - Doctor Casino
99. Low - aldo
100. Nine Inch Nails - chap
101. REM - rogermexico.
102. Bjork - Eric H.
103. Wu-Tang Clan - ― Spottie
104. Shoegaze/Dream Pop/Post-rock (Albums and EPs)
105. Covers - kornrulez6969
106. New Pornographers/AC Newman - staggerlee

oldbowie (WilliamC), Wednesday, 1 January 2014 14:39 (three years ago) Permalink

classic rock nomination/discussion thread coming very soon

ol' Wrink P's thinkpiece (some dude), Wednesday, 1 January 2014 14:45 (three years ago) Permalink



_Rudipherous_, Wednesday, 1 January 2014 14:56 (three years ago) Permalink

I don't take part in many of these, but will consider the classic rock thing, it sounds like a laugh. Someone give me a nudge when these are up, too:

64. Italo - daavid
74. Nirvana - Gavin, Leeds
83. Stereolab - Moka
99. Low - aldo
104. Shoegaze/Dream Pop/Post-rock (Albums and EPs)
105. Covers - kornrulez6969

emil.y, Wednesday, 1 January 2014 15:35 (three years ago) Permalink

btw, we did 20 polls on the list in the course of 2013. so if that pace continues, we should get up to around the Emo/Scream poll by the end of 2014. not as many polls i'm as interested in participating in this year as there were last year, but excited for Steely Dan and Outkast.

ol' Wrink P's thinkpiece (some dude), Thursday, 2 January 2014 12:34 (three years ago) Permalink

which means we'd also get to the New Pornographers poll around late 2016 or early 2017 hehe

ol' Wrink P's thinkpiece (some dude), Thursday, 2 January 2014 12:36 (three years ago) Permalink

Anyone know when the Roxy poll starts?

Iago Galdston, Thursday, 2 January 2014 13:27 (three years ago) Permalink

presumably once voting for the "2013 albums and tracks poll" ends. but i'll wait for the official prod.

charlie h, Thursday, 2 January 2014 15:00 (three years ago) Permalink

or after classic rock, i dunno.

charlie h, Thursday, 2 January 2014 15:01 (three years ago) Permalink

Oh dang, I traded the official prod for some blue meth over the holidays.

oldbowie (WilliamC), Thursday, 2 January 2014 16:36 (three years ago) Permalink

I think we should include ETAs of everything in the queue, just to twist the knife a little more.

Matt Groening is MY Cousin (Leee), Thursday, 2 January 2014 17:22 (three years ago) Permalink

If anyone dies under suspicious circumstances, and the person whose poll it is is implicated in said suspicious circumstances, I'm assuming they don't get to jump ahead in the line.

clemenza, Thursday, 2 January 2014 18:55 (three years ago) Permalink

I think if Bjork killed Stephin Merritt, starting her poll immediately would be the least we could do.

oldbowie (WilliamC), Thursday, 2 January 2014 18:58 (three years ago) Permalink


Alfre, Lord Woodard (Eric H.), Thursday, 2 January 2014 19:14 (three years ago) Permalink

But it's not up to you.

Alfre, Lord Woodard (Eric H.), Thursday, 2 January 2014 19:14 (three years ago) Permalink

What if Extreme Metal killed Hair Metal?

Matt Groening is MY Cousin (Leee), Thursday, 2 January 2014 19:37 (three years ago) Permalink

fight to the death against the winner of 'Producers'

Ismael Klata, Thursday, 2 January 2014 19:51 (three years ago) Permalink

For reference: Thread for coordinating the order and timing of ILM ballot polls

There is also this: ILM Ballot Polls: where to find the results threads

Again Thanks WilliamC for taking back over this thread, as I said before I was just keeping the seat warm until your return.

Bee OK, Friday, 3 January 2014 02:10 (three years ago) Permalink

watching thomas crown affair and wondering.. has there been a movie score poll?

Ƹ̴Ӂ̴Ʒ (brimstead), Friday, 3 January 2014 03:09 (three years ago) Permalink

is this where I plead for you maniacs to separate the Eno and Roxy/Ferry polls?

Eno >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Roxy, give Ferry and Jobson and whoever their second rate solo material if you must but I will vote all Eno in protest if that's how it's gonna be.

sleeve, Friday, 3 January 2014 03:40 (three years ago) Permalink

eno poll should be a poll of inanimate objects

Ƹ̴Ӂ̴Ʒ (brimstead), Friday, 3 January 2014 03:42 (three years ago) Permalink

feelin u sleeve. i dunno that eno >>>>>>> roxy but def a different thing. just adds noise to both "roxy" and "eno" polls and makes results less satisfying.

cf gabriel/(and a little collins) >>>>>> genesis

resulting post (rogermexico.), Friday, 3 January 2014 06:46 (three years ago) Permalink

The Eno / Ferry thing was settled a long time ago, was it not? Separate polls.

kornrulez6969, Friday, 3 January 2014 16:15 (three years ago) Permalink

Put me down for They Might Be Giants. (would enough people care about a TMBG poll?)

Johnny Fever, Wednesday, 15 January 2014 20:37 (three years ago) Permalink

In at 107

channel 9's meaty urologist (WilliamC), Thursday, 16 January 2014 16:45 (three years ago) Permalink

Where is the Classic Rock Canon poll? Having missed out on a lot of the history of this, I understand why we want to coordinate the timing so's not to have 6 million ballot polls flooding the board at once, but don't it seem like we could have one start at least every week?

Ynysddu is the best policy (but tread Caerphilly) (staggerlee), Thursday, 16 January 2014 17:40 (three years ago) Permalink

There's a hiatus while the big EOY poll is happening...normal service will return at the start February I guess.

Two days left to vote in the ILM EOY Poll! (seandalai), Thursday, 16 January 2014 17:47 (three years ago) Permalink

There's a break from these while the end-of-year polls run their course. The list should pick back up in February.

Johnny Fever, Thursday, 16 January 2014 17:48 (three years ago) Permalink

There's a pause during the big end-of-year polls, regular polls will begin again by February.

Euler, Thursday, 16 January 2014 17:52 (three years ago) Permalink

what they said, something something February

channel 9's meaty urologist (WilliamC), Thursday, 16 January 2014 18:24 (three years ago) Permalink

Any reason we can't do one a week starting February?

Ynysddu is the best policy (but tread Caerphilly) (staggerlee), Thursday, 16 January 2014 18:49 (three years ago) Permalink

Most poll-runners have been leaving the voting open for 10-14 days to flog as many ballots as possible out of ILM. Some overlap is cool -- one poll open for voting while another one is rolling out its results -- but any efforts to put these polls on a timetable have been met with an unspoken "yes that's fine for everyone else but I'm going to run my poll this way." I'm not going to play the heavy -- that's the quickest way for these to grind to a screeching stop, imo.

channel 9's meaty urologist (WilliamC), Thursday, 16 January 2014 19:24 (three years ago) Permalink


Ynysddu is the best policy (but tread Caerphilly) (staggerlee), Thursday, 16 January 2014 20:13 (three years ago) Permalink

plus personally if there's too many polls just wham wham wham one after another I kinda get exhausted by the whole thing, even if it's bands I like

gotta let them breeeeeeeeeeeathe maaaaaan

set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 16 January 2014 20:58 (three years ago) Permalink

Veg, are you volunteering for George Michael/WHAM! poll?

Neil Nosepicker (Leee), Thursday, 16 January 2014 21:00 (three years ago) Permalink


i'm terrified enough that I volunteered for Pearl Jam in like, 2015...ain't no way I'm volunteering for anything else EVER until that's over & it hasn't killed me

set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 16 January 2014 21:02 (three years ago) Permalink

It's really not too hard if you just throw all the ballots in your recycle bin and make up the results you want to see.

Johnny Fever, Thursday, 16 January 2014 21:04 (three years ago) Permalink

(Just kidding about that, btw. All my polls is legit.)

Johnny Fever, Thursday, 16 January 2014 21:04 (three years ago) Permalink

classic rock nomination/discussion thread coming very soon

― ol' Wrink P's thinkpiece (some dude), Wednesday, January 1, 2014 9:45 AM (2 weeks ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

still! it's gonna be a slow burner because it seems like the big genre-spanning polls seem to take longer for people to put together ballots for (as opposed to just looking at one band's discography and quickly being able to ID favorites). so i would say, don't mind my slow progress and just proceed with any single artist polls in the queue, and we can worry about whether results rollouts overlap or anything later if it looks likely.

Algerian Horsebeater (some dude), Thursday, 16 January 2014 21:08 (three years ago) Permalink

as far as I'm concerned, you could start the discussion thread at any time & it'll be it's own board

i.e. I listened to the .38 Special greatest hits album today

Euler, Thursday, 16 January 2014 22:00 (three years ago) Permalink

lol I did the same a couple weeks ago.

Johnny Fever, Thursday, 16 January 2014 22:05 (three years ago) Permalink

we are twentieth century foxes

Euler, Thursday, 16 January 2014 22:08 (three years ago) Permalink

i don't wanna start the thread until i've finished the 'starting list' of a few hundred songs that we can then add to (or subtract from if there's any debatable inclusions).

Algerian Horsebeater (some dude), Thursday, 16 January 2014 23:19 (three years ago) Permalink

I'm v excited for it

oooh that reminds me I need to wash the Trans Am....

set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 17 January 2014 01:29 (three years ago) Permalink

lol you didn't win that from Diamond Joe Biden in a high-stakes poker game, did you?

Neil Nosepicker (Leee), Friday, 17 January 2014 01:42 (three years ago) Permalink

Veg, are you volunteering for George Michael/WHAM! poll?

Ismael Klata traded out his front-man/front-women idea and change it to this:
94. George Michael - Ismael Klata

Bee OK, Friday, 17 January 2014 02:21 (three years ago) Permalink

Oh, I thought it was the new WHAM! Lineup

Mark G, Friday, 17 January 2014 08:00 (three years ago) Permalink

Make it so

Pre-Madonna (Nasty, Brutish & Short), Friday, 17 January 2014 08:12 (three years ago) Permalink

It's the role I feel I can do

Ismael Klata, Friday, 17 January 2014 08:18 (three years ago) Permalink

i would be up for doing a No Wave poll, or is that too esoteric?

^ enlightening post (sarahell), Monday, 20 January 2014 21:49 (three years ago) Permalink

I coulda sworn we did Spector already...?

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 29 March 2017 01:47 (seven months ago) Permalink

Sign me up to do a "songs under 2 minutes" poll.

...and DON'T *bleeep* IT UP! (Leee), Friday, 7 April 2017 13:56 (seven months ago) Permalink

Last weekend to vote in the 70s soul tracks poll!

ArchCarrier, Saturday, 8 April 2017 18:59 (seven months ago) Permalink

From the 70's straight into the 80's:

Wanna Be POLLIN' Somethin' ~~~ It's the ILM 80's R&B TRACKS POLL! ~~~

ArchCarrier, Tuesday, 18 April 2017 12:00 (seven months ago) Permalink

There should be one of these for live albums.

20-lol pileup (WilliamC), Wednesday, 26 April 2017 14:24 (six months ago) Permalink

one month passes...

can someone please go, this can't end with Talking Heads. even if that is a great band to end with. i would do another one but it does take a lot out of me and need a bit more time before my next one.

Moka in the mood to do a poll?

Bee OK, Tuesday, 13 June 2017 03:15 (five months ago) Permalink

I've got time and I like running polls so in the absence of anything else I'll run the Blondie if there's no objections. I can't do graphics though so if anyone would like to run that side of things that would be good.

nate woolls, Monday, 19 June 2017 16:53 (five months ago) Permalink

Blondie would be great! i signed up for that poll but replaced it with Jesus and Mary Chain, which i might run for my next one.

Bee OK, Monday, 19 June 2017 23:34 (five months ago) Permalink


Bee OK, Friday, 23 June 2017 02:10 (five months ago) Permalink

any interest in a nu metal trax poll?

Mordy, Wednesday, 5 July 2017 16:29 (four months ago) Permalink

I've been waiting for about 4 years to run my next poll. I'd like to organize a Van Morrison one...he's a major figure with a huge catalog and deserves an ILM poll. What do you good people think?

kornrulez6969, Friday, 14 July 2017 23:08 (four months ago) Permalink

seems reasonable imo

mookieproof, Saturday, 15 July 2017 00:12 (four months ago) Permalink

i say open it up now, this will be perfect for poll number 84

Winter Is Coming (Bee OK), Saturday, 15 July 2017 01:10 (four months ago) Permalink


wtev, Sunday, 16 July 2017 10:34 (four months ago) Permalink

so, replacing the Covers poll? seems fine to me, and you're near enough to the top that you'd be in the next roll call anyway. I say go for it.

over in the billy joel thread website decided to do a listening thread for now but return to the poll idea if it still seems like a good idea after that's wrapped (which would be a few months at least). i've been in line for just shy of four years, so can I hold on to that claim ticket or is that weird?

﴿→ ☺ (Doctor Casino), Sunday, 16 July 2017 11:51 (four months ago) Permalink

And we are up and running.
Backstreet JellyPOLL: ILM Van Morrison Poll Discussion Thread

kornrulez6969, Monday, 17 July 2017 14:17 (four months ago) Permalink

I have no idea what's going on with things being out of order, or if there is still an order, but I'm planning on doing the No Wave poll either in December/early January to coincide with the 40th anniversary of No New York blah blah blah

sarahell, Wednesday, 19 July 2017 20:52 (four months ago) Permalink

you'll be fine sarahell, the order is messed up anyways. just make sure no other poll is running, maybe bump this thread saying you are going to open it and off you go.

Bee OK, Wednesday, 19 July 2017 23:43 (four months ago) Permalink

tbf up until recently it was still very clearly a line, and plenty of people are in it waiting their turn, just there's been some amount of ppl not being ready when their turn comes around and so we've done a bit of jumping down to ppl slightly lower in the list to respect that? i think?

﴿→ ☺ (Doctor Casino), Thursday, 20 July 2017 00:25 (four months ago) Permalink

good point and i agree. we should keep the order as best that we can. there are gaps that i wish did not happen...

Bee OK, Thursday, 20 July 2017 01:12 (four months ago) Permalink

If I was down to run any of these I would have volunteered for a music video poll series.

billstevejim, Friday, 21 July 2017 01:26 (four months ago) Permalink

#84: Linden Arden POLL the Highlights--ILM Van Morrison Poll Results

Bee OK, Thursday, 3 August 2017 20:30 (three months ago) Permalink

I had so much fun in that poll that I'm regretting my ballot-poll-hating past

she carries a torch. two torches, actually (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Tuesday, 8 August 2017 01:13 (three months ago) Permalink

They can be great, especially with acts that have huge discographies that you're not 100% familiar with. For me, the Kinks and Parliament-Funkadelic polls were momentous.

kornrulez6969, Wednesday, 9 August 2017 00:11 (three months ago) Permalink

who wants to run a poll? we are in need for a new poll.

i was thinking about bumping Smashing Pumpkins for my next poll but because i ran Talking Heads this year i will wait and open that Mega one around Feb of 2018. i will probably run "Shoegaze/Dream Pop/Post-rock (Albums and EPs)" since we got a fantastic new Slowdive album this year and it's my next poll on this list.

Bee OK, Thursday, 10 August 2017 03:01 (three months ago) Permalink

would be cool with a Glen Campbell poll

Spottie, Thursday, 10 August 2017 03:04 (three months ago) Permalink

anyone in the mood to run a poll?

i will do Shoegaze albums this year, maybe Oct or Nov.

Bee OK, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 00:19 (three months ago) Permalink

I might be ready for the wu poll...

Spottie, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 03:27 (three months ago) Permalink

I could run Elvis before 1 September

droit au butt (Euler), Wednesday, 16 August 2017 16:38 (three months ago) Permalink

The rare poll where I would, at the very least, make an attempt to relisten to the two Worldwide Hits box sets I got through once and shelved years ago. I would, before I die, like to be able to say I'm a bigger fan of Elvis's music than I am of Elvis, the Guy Who Changed the World. Who I'm a very big fan of. They're not quite inseparable.

clemenza, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 17:16 (three months ago) Permalink

I would love an Elvis poll

kornrulez6969, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 17:33 (three months ago) Permalink

I would love an Elvis poll


lefal junglist platton (wtev), Thursday, 17 August 2017 16:08 (three months ago) Permalink


gospodin simmel, Thursday, 17 August 2017 16:15 (three months ago) Permalink

I might be ready for the wu poll...

― Spottie, Tuesday, August 15, 2017 8:27 PM (two days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

alright got some interest in the wu thread so im starting noms tomorrow.

Spottie, Thursday, 17 August 2017 19:28 (three months ago) Permalink


Larry Elleison (rogermexico.), Monday, 21 August 2017 05:48 (three months ago) Permalink

i've been mostly away for a long time but hope i can at least vote in that one

Larry Elleison (rogermexico.), Monday, 21 August 2017 05:49 (three months ago) Permalink

Got sick and busy so i will start as soon as i can, planning on this week.

Spottie, Monday, 21 August 2017 20:23 (three months ago) Permalink

feel like its about time we added ZZ Top and QOTSA/Desert Sessions to the list

Larry Elleison (rogermexico.), Saturday, 2 September 2017 05:34 (two months ago) Permalink

Wu is under way
WU-TANG CLAN — Artist Poll — Nominations, Discussions, Parameters (noms close Sept 17)

Spottie, Thursday, 7 September 2017 22:41 (two months ago) Permalink

Any interest in a Drexciya + Side Projects poll?

Frederik B, Monday, 11 September 2017 10:13 (two months ago) Permalink

Asked this in the band thread but...

Have we not done a T Rex poll?!?

Naive Teen Idol, Tuesday, 19 September 2017 00:11 (two months ago) Permalink

we have not, do you want me to put you on with the next update? i do own around five albums, so i'm in.

Bee OK, Tuesday, 19 September 2017 00:46 (two months ago) Permalink

Drexciya has side projects? I've got to catch up.

clemenza, Tuesday, 19 September 2017 01:34 (two months ago) Permalink

I would do the poll mostly to learn - so if nobody else participates it's not a good idea - but yeah, seemingly Drexciya had a ton of side projects, and I would include them all. A lot of them relate to the Drexciya mythos in some ways. Dopplereffekt, Arpanet, The Other People Place, Transllusion, Shifted Phases, Abstract Thoughts, Lab Rat XL. And more.

Frederik B, Tuesday, 19 September 2017 10:45 (two months ago) Permalink

Kidding--I've never heard of Drexciya. (But then I'd never heard of Manuel Göttsching, either, until three or four years ago.)

clemenza, Tuesday, 19 September 2017 12:57 (two months ago) Permalink

Lol, ok :) But I seriously don't know enough about Drexciya to tell what is jokes and what is not. I would run the poll purely out of interest. And if nobody else seems to really have delved into the whole catalogue, then it's probably limited how useful a poll would be. Don't put me on yet, Bee OK :)

Frederik B, Tuesday, 19 September 2017 13:28 (two months ago) Permalink

one month passes...

Curious what the turn out would be a for a Bardo Pond poll?

Potato Wave (Leee), Friday, 27 October 2017 19:29 (three weeks ago) Permalink

So Wu rollout should be soon (right Spottie?), unless anyone has any objections I'm thinking of getting the Beatles Solo poll going shortly afterwards

Οὖτις, Thursday, 9 November 2017 17:46 (two weeks ago) Permalink

yeah was going to start yesterday but got sent to Houston on a last minute biz trip.will be back over the weekend and will start monday. feel free to fire up another one though.

Spottie, Thursday, 9 November 2017 18:07 (two weeks ago) Permalink

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