Kelis - C/D

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probably done but I'm aghast that her second album seemed to flop (i heard it didnt even get a proper release in the States or is that nonsense?) and now she's in a Virgin advert and presenting on MTV in the UK - what the fuck is up with that i wonder?

so did you all think she was a one trick pony or is there still some promise in this sassy and still bloody young hip-pop foxlet?

rmember, The Neptunes might not have got such a big profile without her (tho that probably works more the other way round)

blueski, Friday, 23 August 2002 19:40 (seventeen years ago) link

She was what kept me from investigating the Neptunes for a long while, frankly -- everything I had heard from her on the first album was terribly offputting.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 23 August 2002 19:46 (seventeen years ago) link

Still Young & Fresh & New.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, 23 August 2002 19:50 (seventeen years ago) link

i still say 'Caught Out there' is one of the Neptunes best bits of work...

blueski, Friday, 23 August 2002 19:53 (seventeen years ago) link

At least the first half of Kaleidoscope is very good, showcasing some Neptunes tricks that they curiously never followed up upon. "Get Along Without You", "Mafia", and "Mars" in particular almost still sound fresh amidst the cliched 3 or 4 styles they've been so hinged upon recently.

Wanderland is supposedly up for a revamped US proper release, which it probably needs. Also "Young Fresh & New" was neat but probably a bit too weird for the single.

Honda, Friday, 23 August 2002 20:00 (seventeen years ago) link

I saw that Virgin ad and was dead chuffed that I had the same phone as Kelis, but I'm distraught to realise that this and bloody VJing is her future direction. "Kaleidoscope" is a cast-in-marble r'n'b classic, and pisses all over everything the Neptunes have done since, and pretty much anything anyone else has done since for that matter.

"Wanderland" is probably better than many people think, simply because it was released apologetically without promotion with a can't-be-bothered cover, but the Nepts were definitely spreading themselves a bit thin by this point.

Kelis will be alright, though, if she can lift Maas above the masses then she'll have the pick of the superproducers queuing for her first "free" album.

Mike Ratford, Friday, 23 August 2002 20:14 (seventeen years ago) link

Boy, I really, really am surprised at the worship Kaleidoscope gets -- it's very strange to me. Trust me, I'm glad you're happy and all! But maybe with "Mars" as an exception -- and again, maybe -- I really don't hear it.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 23 August 2002 20:39 (seventeen years ago) link

'Kaleidoscope' was the first time most of us had heard The neptunes on more of a pop or indeed feminine tip. 'caught out there' was really their first work that made me go 'what the hell? who's made this?' the more masculine hip hop they'd knocked up til that point (mYstikal. jay-z, busta etc.) was interesting in parts but hadnt had the same impact probably bogged down cos of the usual machismo dullness in the lyrics, whereas a bit of man hatin' from the laydeez always seems to stand out more (hell hath no fury etc.) - but also 'caught out there' had a bit more to it unlike their previous hip hop productions which were much more minimal and more driven by bass and beats

blueski, Friday, 23 August 2002 20:58 (seventeen years ago) link

The cover of Wanderland is spectacular.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, 23 August 2002 22:53 (seventeen years ago) link

I think Kaleidoscope is one of the best albums of the last five years, and Get Along With You one of the best singles. Besides the brilliant production (the Neptunes best work, possibly), she is a terrific singer too. She might be the sexiest pop star of the last decade too, which does no harm.

Having said that, it's perfectly possible that she might never make another very good record, but I hope she does.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Saturday, 24 August 2002 09:12 (seventeen years ago) link

women who sing about hating their ex-boyfriends = shite

DV (dirtyvicar), Saturday, 24 August 2002 10:37 (seventeen years ago) link

whereas singing about hating your CURRENT boyfriend/girlfriend being a bitch/bastard are of course perfectly acceptable

blueski, Saturday, 24 August 2002 13:38 (seventeen years ago) link

no, that also is unacceptable.

DV (dirtyvicar), Saturday, 24 August 2002 16:12 (seventeen years ago) link

"amidst the cliched 3 or 4 styles they've been so hinged upon recently."

this argument no longer washes in today's post -"grindin" world. paradoxical though that is, since it sounds just like a dub duke bootee production

sorry 4 tha hijack

bob zemko, Saturday, 24 August 2002 16:36 (seventeen years ago) link

If you don't like Kelis, listen for the Crackout (or Capdown, I forget, they're the same band aren't they?) cover of "Caught Out There". And be thankful the original wasn't that arse-grindingly poor.

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Saturday, 24 August 2002 17:15 (seventeen years ago) link

the way i see it, if you dont like Kelis or at least a few of her tracks (as i do) then you dont like that kind of music full stop. i'm not convinced there's a better female export of....gawd, whatever this music could actually be called now (i refuse to deem it as r'n'b but its progressed too far from swingbeat as well). i dont see what Tweet's got that Kelis didnt for example - tho i tink Tweet's stuff is okay - if TOO influenced by Missy

blueski, Saturday, 24 August 2002 20:45 (seventeen years ago) link

i think tweet got all the tracks tim intended for alliyah

chaki (chaki), Saturday, 24 August 2002 21:18 (seventeen years ago) link

you dont like that kind of music full stop

A bit unfair, I think. Some would say that to not like Coltrane is to not like jazz, say, but Mark S clearly loves his jazz and is no Coltrane fan (unless I've completely missed something). Mistaking one person/album/song for the sole keys to the kingdom doesn't seem appropriate.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 24 August 2002 21:26 (seventeen years ago) link

maybe he's logically wrong, ned, but I still like his point. it seems as if usually we expect a bit more from a person who claims to find nothing at all to like about a record most people take to be exemplary or representative etc. of a genre, but who claims to like the genre. it's kind of idiosyncratic. it's not as if mark gets off free for his coltrane thing - he's met with constant confusion and disbelief, in part because he's so extreme about it. so people expect him to say something about it to help them make sense of it.

I'm never really sure what all you listen to, but in your case it seems weirder to say this and still say you like r+b (if you would say that). at least I have some idea that mark will go for a lot of jazz or free jazz. with you, it just seems like isolated records.

Josh (Josh), Saturday, 24 August 2002 23:19 (seventeen years ago) link

and I don't really intend to turn this into a figure-out-ned's-willful-idiosyncracies thing. I want to focus on what this kind of reaction to a representative record might be taken for from some less willfully idiosyncratic person, and how it sits with what we think of as liking a genre as opposed to isolated records.

Josh (Josh), Saturday, 24 August 2002 23:21 (seventeen years ago) link

what we're talking about seems to particularly involve liking a 'foreign' genre. if we were talking about someone who liked some rock records and not say raw power I don't think we would find it at all unusual for them to claim that they still liked rock. why is that?

Josh (Josh), Saturday, 24 August 2002 23:38 (seventeen years ago) link

Maybe Ned reacts to the untrained-ness of Kelis's performances - I remember when "Caught Out There" came out Tom said it was exactly that which he preferred in Kelis over Destiny's Child (if I recall I was arguing that "Bug A Boo" was the song's equal), but I'm pretty sure Ned's favourite R&B diva is Aaliyah, who is ultra-trained and pure-sounding (if on the restrained rather than melismatic side).

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Sunday, 25 August 2002 00:56 (seventeen years ago) link

Good points all. Tim is right vis-a-vis Aaliyah (and I am definitely NOT a fan of melisma in many instances, it depresses the hell out of me in ways that eight hours of the Swans never could) and could well be right about the, it will require a relisten or two, it's been a little bit! ;-) I've actually loaded up a couple of tracks from Kaleidoscope on my iPod for my NZ trip. Untrainedness, perhaps, strident might also be another word -- but to steer clear of DV's criticism (hey, you know me and lyrics), it's not subject matter so much as how it's delivered. But turning that around, I'm definitely not demanding that all the singers I like be like Aaliyah or anything, that would be boring and more to the point an inaccurate description of my own reactions to singing styles. But some people do just grate, or don't seem particularly well-suited to what's being created, and that was my sense with Kelis (if you want a not-entirely-useful comparison, Eve isn't a favorite of mine either, but she bores me where Kelis bugs me).

I wouldn't call it specifically willful, Josh -- my own reaction to it was that when it came out, and that the past couple of years have seen it elevated to where it is doesn't so much mean I'm trying to be contrarian so much as my own reactions to it just stand out all the more. I don't know whether that helps any or not. To address the larger question...*thinks*...I think it just means that people's tastes are more complicated and less prone to rigorous 'if x then y' conclusions that might be thought. Admittedly that's the type of thing I would say, but it doesn't really strike me as odd.

I'm never really sure what all you listen to

Shouldn't that be everyone's goal? Why confirm expectations? :-)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 25 August 2002 02:13 (seventeen years ago) link

dilettante trash a blast from the past

Josh (Josh), Wednesday, 28 August 2002 04:26 (seventeen years ago) link

Wow was I ever weak on that thread.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 28 August 2002 05:22 (seventeen years ago) link

five months pass...
"Mars" is a rilly wonderful song.

naked as sin (naked as sin), Monday, 10 February 2003 00:47 (sixteen years ago) link

some days of the week that first kelis album is my favorite record of the 2000s so far (yes, i know it came out in dec 99 you fucking pedants)

jess (dubplatestyle), Monday, 10 February 2003 01:01 (sixteen years ago) link

da fact dat u kno dat means u ain't allowed 2 say non-bracketed part o post, silly.

naked as sin (naked as sin), Monday, 10 February 2003 01:06 (sixteen years ago) link

you hating neptunes = you hating fun!!


zemko (bob), Monday, 10 February 2003 01:14 (sixteen years ago) link

but ther so much fun

naked as sin (naked as sin), Monday, 10 February 2003 01:15 (sixteen years ago) link

my posts seem really dumb months later :(

oh wait, they were at the time as well...

stevem (blueski), Monday, 10 February 2003 01:39 (sixteen years ago) link


Death to the unbeliever.

my posts seem really dumb months later :(

Eh? Why do you say that?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 10 February 2003 01:45 (sixteen years ago) link

yeah, mars! i love mafia too.

minna (minna), Monday, 10 February 2003 01:50 (sixteen years ago) link

six months pass...
Mafia, Mars, Ghetto Children = YES.

Andrew (enneff), Monday, 1 September 2003 00:34 (sixteen years ago) link

i must say, one year later Kelis is looking much better off after a string of very good guest spots with Timo Maas, P Diddy/D Emerson and especially Richard X. 'Milkshake' is HAWT.

stevem (blueski), Monday, 1 September 2003 00:42 (sixteen years ago) link

'Popular Thug' (the original) has me right where it wants me and 'Finest Dreams' should be all up on MTV America, with Richard doing some stuff on the next record. Kaleidoscope roxors. Kelis classique. Go, Kelis, go, Kelis, go.

Barima (Barima), Monday, 1 September 2003 07:33 (sixteen years ago) link

When Wanderland came out and everyone was all "ahh, er, nnnng" about it I lost interest for a bit and I got it for £2 in Music Zone a few weeks ago and GRAAAH it is perfect, how did I get by without for so long? Popular Thug/Finest Dreams/Milkshake have effortlessly sent her flying atop the Gloriousest Popstar Of The Now pile all over again.

Is Milkshake actual new single, or just floaty-around-newness? Is there imminent third album? Want want want want WANT.

Alex in Doncaster (Alex in Doncaster), Monday, 1 September 2003 07:40 (sixteen years ago) link

Nah dud. What was eventually great about her debut album was due to Neptunes doing a good job.

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 1 September 2003 08:01 (sixteen years ago) link

she is fantastic and wanderland is a much better record than people think. i actually think it's the best thing she's done. did i hear geir saying the neptunes did a good job? am i imagining this?

Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Monday, 1 September 2003 08:23 (sixteen years ago) link

I started enjoying r'n'b with "Caught out there", which sounded amazing to me, before I thought the entire genre was crap and then I checked out Neptunes and Timbaland stuff.
I saw her live, performing her songs and covers like "Smells like teen spirit", she really rocked.
I like most of the things she did, especially collaborations with Guru and Richard X, Timo Maas.
I hope the new LP will sold more than the underrated "wanderland".

Sami (Sami), Monday, 1 September 2003 08:59 (sixteen years ago) link

Kelis is back :) Both 'Kaleidoscope' and 'Wanderland' are patchy, but she's an amazing pop star and one day she will make a masterpiece.

The Lex (The Lex), Monday, 1 September 2003 13:25 (sixteen years ago) link

"Milkshake" is super good. Does anyone know the producer line-up for her new one? Is it all Neps or is Richard X on board too?

Nick H, Monday, 1 September 2003 13:50 (sixteen years ago) link

nick, see:

(producers allegedly include timbaland, diddy, dame grease, r saadiq and dallas austin)(no i don't know who all of those people are either)

mitch lastnamewithheld (mitchlnw), Monday, 1 September 2003 14:02 (sixteen years ago) link

I think people would like Wanderland more if it wasn't released in the midst of lots of other Neptunes stuff. They were using a lot of similar tricks (swoony soul, minimal synth-rave etc.) elsewhere, such that while Wanderland is as good as anything else they were doing it didn't sound as out-of-nowhere as Kaleidoscope (and indeed Kaleidoscope still sounds out-of-nowhere due to its sugary maximalist production).

I think "Popular Thug" (original) is her finest moment though.

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 01:05 (sixteen years ago) link

dame grease is a gothy dmx/ruff ryders beatmaker, r saadiq was in tony toni tone and does nu soul stuff now, dallas austin is an rnb dude who did pink and tlc and monica stuff

trife (simon_tr), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 01:31 (sixteen years ago) link

I initially thought Dame Grease was a woman, adopting a Judi Dench-style name.

Nick H, Tuesday, 2 September 2003 11:21 (sixteen years ago) link

two years pass...
Ooh, new Kelis album out in July, name escapes me at the moment.

I heard new single 'Bossy' yesterday which hasn't stuck in my head, but I need to give it a few more plays.

My girlfriend showed me a feature of her in Elle magazine and she appeared to be sporting a Supremes-like straight bob haircut too.

Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Monday, 5 June 2006 11:00 (thirteen years ago) link

name of album will be kelis was here

'bossy' is initially underwhelming - it's VERY minimal, though when i listened back to tasty at the weekend i realised that she was playing with sparse plinky-plonky 808 sounds on quite a few of the album tracks there. i think it's good, and it makes me very intrigued to hear what she'll be up to on the album, but it's an odd choice of single. i heard it last year and thought it was just an unreleased demo like 'running mate' - i didn't think it had the oomph to be a lead single!

The Lex (The Lex), Monday, 5 June 2006 11:14 (thirteen years ago) link

she's on posters all over london right now for her live date. she looks v muscly in them.

The Lex (The Lex), Monday, 5 June 2006 11:15 (thirteen years ago) link

also wtf am i on about upthread, both kaleidoscope and wanderland are start-to-finish gold.

The Lex (The Lex), Monday, 5 June 2006 11:20 (thirteen years ago) link

for a while i heard that as "i was SUPERTHUG but now i'm SUPER STRONG" which would've been a kinda neat neptunes reference but oh well

lex diamonds (lex pretend), Tuesday, 4 January 2011 10:36 (eight years ago) link


i underrated this album all year

J0rdan S., Tuesday, 4 January 2011 10:37 (eight years ago) link

it is at least my #2 some days my #1

tears of a self-clowning oven (The Reverend), Tuesday, 4 January 2011 10:45 (eight years ago) link

one month passes...

I'm backtracking and listening to Wanderland for the first time and I mostly like it so far. I would say Kelis has my idea of a classic R&B sound than most relatively recent R&B singers I've heard. Also, I'm kind of surprised this stuff doesn't sound familiar, but I guess it's because she wasn't that big in the U.S. (and I haven't been going out of my way to hear R&B, and apparently not spending times in places where I might happen to hear it anyway).

(Anyone uninterested in my impressions of R&B singers is free to ignore them.)

_Rudipherous_, Friday, 4 February 2011 18:36 (eight years ago) link

That album wasn't even released in the US.

The Reverend, Friday, 4 February 2011 18:40 (eight years ago) link

That probably didn't help.

_Rudipherous_, Friday, 4 February 2011 18:48 (eight years ago) link

two years pass...

well this is completely not what i was expecting from her

flamenco drop (lex pretend), Monday, 22 April 2013 20:21 (six years ago) link

i have to listen a few times more but instareaction is: YES

the horns, that bassline...

flamenco drop (lex pretend), Monday, 22 April 2013 20:22 (six years ago) link

this is erasing all of those bad memories of "Bossy"

Call me at **BITCOIN (DJP), Monday, 22 April 2013 20:32 (six years ago) link

Love that song!

Z S up HOOS down (Spottie_Ottie_Dope), Monday, 22 April 2013 20:38 (six years ago) link


Z S up HOOS down (Spottie_Ottie_Dope), Monday, 22 April 2013 20:38 (six years ago) link

I... do not

Call me at **BITCOIN (DJP), Monday, 22 April 2013 20:39 (six years ago) link

did you ever hear the switch remix of it, dan?

flamenco drop (lex pretend), Monday, 22 April 2013 20:41 (six years ago) link


this is okay

Call me at **BITCOIN (DJP), Monday, 22 April 2013 20:51 (six years ago) link

loving this

produced by Dave Sitek apparently!

sandra dayo connor (The Reverend), Tuesday, 23 April 2013 01:41 (six years ago) link

i don't really have any sort of handle on sitek's sound and his wiki discography isn't illuminating me

this song though, so good so good so good

flamenco drop (lex pretend), Tuesday, 23 April 2013 09:15 (six years ago) link

I associate him with making guitars sound fantastic (even when boring bands are involved) but I've no idea how he would approach a Kelis track. Not heard this one yet.

Matt DC, Tuesday, 23 April 2013 09:41 (six years ago) link

oh it's called "jerk ribs" not "call on me"

flamenco drop (lex pretend), Tuesday, 23 April 2013 11:58 (six years ago) link

this song is really damn good

J0rdan S., Tuesday, 23 April 2013 15:30 (six years ago) link

Sounds kind of Dear Science

sandra dayo connor (The Reverend), Tuesday, 23 April 2013 18:42 (six years ago) link


Tim F, Tuesday, 23 April 2013 21:09 (six years ago) link

I wish her vocal and the melody was a little bit more...something. The track itself is a total jam, though.

Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 23 April 2013 21:16 (six years ago) link

You know when Beyonce said she was being influenced by Fela Kuti? The arrangement here is kinda what I imagined.

Tim F, Tuesday, 23 April 2013 21:19 (six years ago) link

yeah this is for real

brb buying poppers w/my employee discount (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 23 April 2013 21:45 (six years ago) link

Song is great. Horns are straight off a Tony Allen album from the '70s. Would love to hear a whole album like this.

誤訳侮辱, Tuesday, 23 April 2013 22:07 (six years ago) link

feeling this tbh

set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 23 April 2013 22:10 (six years ago) link

like this kinda reminds me of the solange stuff from last yr

monotony, Tuesday, 23 April 2013 22:57 (six years ago) link

I see the resemblance definitely but I'm liking this a lot more.

Tim F, Tuesday, 23 April 2013 22:58 (six years ago) link

I was so put off by "Losing You" I never checked out the other new Solange stuff :/

sandra dayo connor (The Reverend), Tuesday, 23 April 2013 23:20 (six years ago) link

Losing You's b-side was fantastic. Better than the rest of the ep.

Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 23 April 2013 23:24 (six years ago) link

(I'd forgotten the name. It's "Sleep in the Park".)

Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 23 April 2013 23:25 (six years ago) link

lol, i've seen people elsewhere react to this with "she's copying solange!!!!" as though both of them weren't harking back to and drawing on much older forms of soul, afrobeat etc

(and as though kelis hasn't just written an effortlessly better song)

flamenco drop (lex pretend), Wednesday, 24 April 2013 07:52 (six years ago) link

Crucially, Kelis doesn't feel like she's using drums as a strainer-filter for all the messy emotion of R&B.

Tim F, Wednesday, 24 April 2013 07:55 (six years ago) link

i don't think she's copied her, merely that they appear to be mining similar territory. fan of both ftr.

monotony, Wednesday, 24 April 2013 09:39 (six years ago) link

not feeling

r|t|c, Wednesday, 24 April 2013 11:52 (six years ago) link

Me neither. The horns are an annoyance.

the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 24 April 2013 23:51 (six years ago) link

Just pulled out wanderland again. Haven't listened to it in years and it drives me nuts that they've yanked all the stuff from it from youtube on copyright grounds, which is insane because its like you didn't even release the album in the states! why won't you just let people hear it!

start-to-finish one of my favorite albums still. other albums and artists probably have better individual tracks. but it has a consistency of vision and an overall structure that just knocks me out. Also this is probably my favorite period of neptunes productions. another buried kelis/neptunes classic circa about the same period is Royce Da 5'9"'s Make This Run. love how the production feels looped and regular and super-electronic but simultaneously sort of subtly evolves over the course of the tracks with a subtly organic feel. its like it keeps time with my breathing. and the imagery with the wings is just next level.

Chuck E was a hero to most (s.clover), Thursday, 2 May 2013 18:19 (six years ago) link

the intro on junkie is so playful.

Chuck E was a hero to most (s.clover), Thursday, 2 May 2013 18:48 (six years ago) link

the futurism/conscious stuff in little suzie especially, its like the direct predecessor to janelle monae. i wonder how different kelis' career could have been if this was a hit in the states.

Chuck E was a hero to most (s.clover), Thursday, 2 May 2013 19:22 (six years ago) link

new song is strong imo, i'm into the production.

shit tie (Jordan), Thursday, 2 May 2013 19:39 (six years ago) link

holy shit i never heard the young fresh so solid remix before!

it's a mess, but it's also totally great.

Chuck E was a hero to most (s.clover), Friday, 3 May 2013 17:40 (six years ago) link

ten months pass...

I just heard the last part of a great interview w/ Kelis on the broadcast of the "BBC World Service" (for either March 4 or 5, I would guess)

anyone know where I can find the rest of it? google is no help.

espring (amateurist), Wednesday, 5 March 2014 06:44 (five years ago) link

One of these, maybe? Kelis seems to have been on BBC Radio a lot in the past couple of days.

Jeff W, Wednesday, 5 March 2014 12:29 (five years ago) link

three years pass...

kelis flesh tone is insanely underrated

21st century/fourth of july are all time

In a slipshod style (Ross), Wednesday, 22 November 2017 07:19 (one year ago) link

22nd century **

In a slipshod style (Ross), Wednesday, 22 November 2017 07:21 (one year ago) link


johnny crunch, Wednesday, 22 November 2017 14:27 (one year ago) link

I did not remember that Ned didn't like Kelis

the Hannah Montana of the Korean War (DJP), Wednesday, 22 November 2017 15:14 (one year ago) link

two months pass...

Playing 3 shows in Victoria soon, sounds amazing

kolakube (Ross), Friday, 26 January 2018 00:37 (one year ago) link

felt sad at seeing her judge that awful choir competition thing on the BBC (since cancelled?) but hey gotta pay the bills

Daniel_Rf, Friday, 26 January 2018 10:57 (one year ago) link

one year passes...

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