The Mamas and the Papas C/D

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I've been listening to their singles collection the last few days and it made me realize they're one of the best pop groups of the 60s. Perhaps only rivaled by the Supremes.

Monday monday, I saw her again, Glad to be happy, Words of love, Califoria dreaming(Chunking express!!!)....CLASSIC

petlover, Saturday, 18 June 2005 21:49 (twelve years ago) Permalink

creque alley

Teh HoBB (the pirate king), Saturday, 18 June 2005 22:27 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Classic. Too many good songs to even remotely be considered dud. The harmonies alone on California Dreaming are enough to qualify them as Classic!!!

VegemiteGrrl (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 18 June 2005 22:33 (twelve years ago) Permalink

dud. but the hilarious thing about "california dreaming" is that michelle phillips has made millions of dollars in songwriting royalties because john gave her a lyric credit for writing down his words while he sang them.

jody l'anti-vierge (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 18 June 2005 23:10 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Classic. I love their hippie-chorale version of "Dedicated to the One I Love."

Rickey Wright (Rrrickey), Saturday, 18 June 2005 23:23 (twelve years ago) Permalink

totally classic. michelle phillips was a goddess.

keith m (keithmcl), Sunday, 19 June 2005 00:14 (twelve years ago) Permalink

classic all the way
also search Papa John's solo LP from '70

jared, Sunday, 19 June 2005 00:23 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic Classic

Michael Costello (MichaelCostello1), Sunday, 19 June 2005 01:13 (twelve years ago) Permalink

dud. but the hilarious thing about "california dreaming" is that michelle phillips has made millions of dollars in songwriting royalties because john gave her a lyric credit for writing down his words while he sang them.

I thought the "Stopped into a church..." segment was hers...

Cunga (Cunga), Sunday, 19 June 2005 02:50 (twelve years ago) Permalink

but the hilarious thing about "california dreaming" is that michelle phillips has made millions of dollars in songwriting royalties because john gave her a lyric credit for writing down his words while he sang them.

that's more than a lot of other people have done to earn their songwriting credits.

fact checking cuz (fcc), Sunday, 19 June 2005 05:32 (twelve years ago) Permalink

I love 'California Dreaming'. I really love it. But I feel that it is so much better than everything else they did that, in totality, they must be counted as DUD.

DV (dirtyvicar), Sunday, 19 June 2005 10:30 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Classic. The production and arrangement on I Saw Her Again is astounding.

Is Denny Doherty's solo album any good?

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Sunday, 19 June 2005 13:49 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Absolute Classic. California Dreaming is definitely not the best thing they did. Apart from a couple of dud tracks (Dancing in the Streets) the first two albums are full of classics.

walter kranz (walterkranz), Sunday, 19 June 2005 16:16 (twelve years ago) Permalink

The production and arrangement on I Saw Her Again is astounding.

True.

babyalive (babyalive), Sunday, 19 June 2005 23:54 (twelve years ago) Permalink

also search Papa John's solo LP from '70

is that "Wolf King of LA" or something like that? I've been looking to pick that up.

Will(iam), Monday, 20 June 2005 00:20 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Why do so many people I meet INSIST that California Dreaming was by the Beach BOys and that it was their best song? I know they did a crappy cover of it once, but y'know.

dog latin (dog latin), Monday, 20 June 2005 00:24 (twelve years ago) Permalink

ew, the beach boys' cover of that is dire.

jody l'anti-vierge (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 20 June 2005 00:31 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Abba's manager (Stig Anderson I believe) used to do nothing but help name the group's songs, but that was enough to get him writing credit on songs like "Dancing Queen" or "The Name of The Game."

Michael F Gill (Michael F Gill), Monday, 20 June 2005 01:39 (twelve years ago) Permalink

dog latin, do you hang out at the Philly Pizza Company?

walter kranz (walterkranz), Monday, 20 June 2005 01:42 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Dud.

The only good thing to come out of their careers would be the episode of scooby-doo with Mama Cass

That One Guy (That One Guy), Monday, 20 June 2005 01:49 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Dud. John Phillips is unbearable. Ted Hawkins's cover of "San Francisco" is classic, but he essentially turns it into a different song, rewriting much of both the lyrics and melody.

Burr (Burr), Monday, 20 June 2005 05:03 (twelve years ago) Permalink

So. Very. Classic.

Easy to sneer at, but unbelievable, swooning gorgeousness.

They're remembered and judged on a few songs, most of which have become so overplayed and ingrained that they're overlooked. Looking further into their catalogues (and into Cass and John's solo stuff) is rewarding.

hobart paving (hobart paving), Monday, 20 June 2005 08:32 (twelve years ago) Permalink

I Saw Her...Monday. Unbelievable.

Class act.

PappaWheelie (PappaWheelie), Monday, 20 June 2005 15:34 (twelve years ago) Permalink

classic

i saw the documentary thing they show on PBS every funraising drive again a few weeks ago, though, and it left me wondering if michelle phillips ever did much but look pretty.

b b, Monday, 20 June 2005 16:44 (twelve years ago) Permalink

I really really love "Wolf King of LA" but it's a completely different thing than the Mama's and the Papa's. And no one's getting fat cept Mama Cass.

Tripmaker (SDWitzm), Monday, 20 June 2005 17:13 (twelve years ago) Permalink

I actually think Michelle is better looking nowadays in all those documentaries.

The one that focuses on connecting them to Lovin' Spoonful is rahter insightful.

PappaWheelie (PappaWheelie), Monday, 20 June 2005 17:15 (twelve years ago) Permalink

one year passes...
i recently heard "The Achin' Kind" from Michelle's 1977 solo debut - it's sweet! Produced by Jack Nitzsche!! Anybody get the recent reissue of this (Victim Of Romance) with xtra Papa John produced tracks? Is it any good??

timmy tannin (pompous), Tuesday, 8 August 2006 05:00 (eleven years ago) Permalink

one year passes...

wow they're so good, huh?

Surmounter, Thursday, 5 June 2008 02:14 (nine years ago) Permalink

Classic classic classic. Love the evocations of "Twelve-Thirty," the goose that is "Words of Love," the winsome maturity of the outlook on "Look Through My Window."

And to Dan S. -
Is Denny Doherty's solo album any good?

It's worth a listen, but not several. Morbid, depressing, seemingly every song about being aimless and mired in ennui and maybe a little drunk. And he'd cut a little off the high end of his voice.

My review of Waiting for a Song for AMG, which says pretty much the same thing: http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:kzfyxqr5ldse

Joseph McCombs, Thursday, 5 June 2008 05:37 (nine years ago) Permalink

I like the Mugwumps album. Denny blows his mind on "Can't Judge A Book By Lookin' At Its Cover," and Cass rocks Broadway way six years before Bette Midler's debut (she was prob still in Honolulu in '66)I think the Big Three and some other pre M&Ps albums are around too; I know I saw the Highwaymen on Amazon.

dow, Thursday, 5 June 2008 06:57 (nine years ago) Permalink

five months pass...

"I saw her-" is top 5 anything any day.

clotpoll, Wednesday, 12 November 2008 05:22 (nine years ago) Permalink

<3 michelle

velko, Wednesday, 12 November 2008 05:35 (nine years ago) Permalink

Let me just add a Yeah to that.

If Timi Yuro would be still alive, most other singers could shut up, Wednesday, 12 November 2008 07:02 (nine years ago) Permalink

Christgau's reviews of the two '90s/'00s collections really get them.

If Timi Yuro would be still alive, most other singers could shut up, Wednesday, 12 November 2008 07:06 (nine years ago) Permalink

I've really gotta get some of their records. I've just heard the singles (like everyone else on the planet), but I've always been blown away by their vocal harmonizing. A compilation of their best work (not just "hits," but choice album cuts, b-sides etc,) would be my go-to pick. Any suggestions?

Sugar hiccup, Makes a pig soar and swoon (Pillbox), Wednesday, 12 November 2008 08:57 (nine years ago) Permalink

Gold is a good one that's in print.

If Timi Yuro would be still alive, most other singers could shut up, Wednesday, 12 November 2008 09:05 (nine years ago) Permalink

Try to find a copy of All The Leaves Are Brown; it is everything they recorded in the initial run (i.e., nothing from contractual obligation People Like Us) on 2 cds. I think you'll find out that even the stuff you've never heard is mostly amazing.

EZ Snappin, Wednesday, 12 November 2008 13:29 (nine years ago) Permalink

And someone played a Beach Boys song
On the jukebox
It was "California Dreamin'"
So we started screamin'
"On such a winter's day"

Jazzbo, Wednesday, 12 November 2008 13:48 (nine years ago) Permalink

I hate it when you order hot tea and they only have it "iced"

btw, got any Def Leppard t-shirts?

Sugar hiccup, Makes a pig soar and swoon (Pillbox), Wednesday, 12 November 2008 13:54 (nine years ago) Permalink

one month passes...

Their version of Twist and Shout is so barbituately bizarre.

expletive for lady parts (Granny Dainger), Monday, 22 December 2008 21:55 (eight years ago) Permalink

parents had a ton of their stuff. Them and the Lovin Spoonful. The Spoonful seem like more fun to me, never been able to get into this shlock.

There was even a brief period when I preferred Sally Forth. (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 22 December 2008 21:59 (eight years ago) Permalink

Ouch.

If Timi Yuro would be still alive, most other singers could shut up, Tuesday, 23 December 2008 01:39 (eight years ago) Permalink

L.A.-rock drugs-and-sex can be traced to stuff like "Straight Shooter."

If Timi Yuro would be still alive, most other singers could shut up, Tuesday, 23 December 2008 01:40 (eight years ago) Permalink

Classic..if only for Snowqueen of Texas. Little-known song really worth a look.

davek_00, Tuesday, 23 December 2008 21:51 (eight years ago) Permalink

^^^ yes, people like us v. underrated. just picked up that dave mason/cass eliot joint, first impression is good

buzza, Tuesday, 23 December 2008 21:57 (eight years ago) Permalink

one month passes...

I second the idea that "I Saw Her" is top five anything and that Michelle was sexy.

Cunga, Saturday, 24 January 2009 07:10 (eight years ago) Permalink

eight months pass...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/8272229.stm

The daughter of John Phillips, leader of 1960s group the Mamas and the Papas, has claimed she had a 10-year sexual relationship with her late father.

Mackenzie Phillips, a former child TV star, alleges the incestuous liaison - disclosed in her recently published memoir - began in 1979 when she was 19.

Speaking on The Oprah Winfrey Show, she said the relationship was a "betrayal".

Phillips' claims have been disputed by Genevieve Waite, her father's wife at the time of the alleged abuse.

In a statement read out by Winfrey, she said John Phillips was "incapable, no matter how drunk or drugged he was, of having such a relationship with his own child."

Mackenzie Phillips starred in 1970s sitcom One Day at a Time and appeared in George Lucas's 1973 film American Graffiti.

The 49-year-old has a long history of drug abuse and was arrested for possession of cocaine and heroin last year.

'Abuse of power'

In her book, entitled High on Arrival, she alleges she first had sexual intercourse with her father on the night before she was to be married to a member of the Rolling Stones' entourage.

"I woke up that night from a blackout to find myself having sex with my own father," she writes.

Phillips describes those first sexual encounters as rape - but says the relationship later became consensual and ended when she fell pregnant.

She was unsure who had fathered the child and claims to have had an abortion paid for by her father.

"I never let him touch me again," she told Winfrey, calling the alleged incest "an abuse of power".

But she said she forgave her father on his deathbed in 2001, describing him as "very tortured man".

John Phillips married four times, having Mackenzie - his oldest daughter - with his first wife Susan Adams.

He formed the Mamas and the Papas with his second wife Michelle, whom he divorced in 1970.

In a statement, Michelle Phillips said her stepdaughter's public disclosure was "an unfortunate circumstance" and "very hurtful for our entire family".

One of the most popular bands of the 1960s, the Mamas and the Papas are best known for their hits California Dreamin' and Monday, Monday.

Mackenzie Phillips' half-sister Chynna had pop success with 1990s group Wilson Phillips.

pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Thursday, 24 September 2009 19:16 (eight years ago) Permalink

ahh
The "I am glad I am not Mackenzie Phillips" thread

pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Thursday, 24 September 2009 19:17 (eight years ago) Permalink

Classic

LEGOS by Atlas Sound (coming eventually, 2009 or 2010) (Future_Perfect), Thursday, 24 September 2009 19:18 (eight years ago) Permalink

four months pass...

god i love these guys

you have to forgive me (surm), Wednesday, 17 February 2010 17:21 (seven years ago) Permalink

Words of Love drives me crazy

you have to forgive me (surm), Wednesday, 17 February 2010 17:21 (seven years ago) Permalink

i actually kind of dislike the brand of harmonies they favor (wish someone could explain what precisely this translates to in music-theory terms), even though they are obviously better at them than most.

that said, a few of their songs are just killer, extremely well-constructed. like "safe in my garden."

by another name (amateurist), Wednesday, 17 February 2010 23:45 (seven years ago) Permalink

the thing that sold me on "California Dreamin'" after being sick of it
(due to years of its ubiquity on Oldies stations & whatnot)
is watching Mama Cass dance around.
She does this weird wiggle thing with her feet when she sings.
Also the lead singer on the verse does these funny head motions.
Plus Michelle is cute.

lukevalentine, Thursday, 18 February 2010 03:18 (seven years ago) Permalink

Here is a perf. of "CA Dreamin'" on the Hullaballoo show
complete with dancing girls (which the Papas seem to enjoy)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emuiQkGMc9k

lukevalentine, Thursday, 18 February 2010 03:19 (seven years ago) Permalink

seven months pass...

faced with the choice i'd much rather have hung out in the 60s taking acid with Cass and Michelle rather than say Dylan.
i mean they look like a lot of fun right?
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm87/sadeyedlady89/Michelle/Rock-Roll-059-Cass-Elliot-Michelle-.jpg

piscesx, Monday, 4 October 2010 22:24 (seven years ago) Permalink

Any plans of reissuing their four 60s albums. I know the debut album was reissued in 1998 or so, but I would still love a reissue/remaster of all four, with bonus tracks etc. There was a complete anthology released a few years ago, but I believe it is now replaced with a box set that is not as complete.

Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Monday, 4 October 2010 23:19 (seven years ago) Permalink

The Complete Anthology is still available from Amazon in the US - it's an import from Europe so you should be able to find it. If not, the quality of the first four records on the 2-disc All The Leaves Are Brown anthology is excellent, and you get a few mono singles as a bonus.

EZ Snappin, Monday, 4 October 2010 23:56 (seven years ago) Permalink

No Salt on Her Tail - this alone makes them classic

sonofstan, Tuesday, 5 October 2010 17:37 (seven years ago) Permalink

faced with the choice i'd much rather have hung out in the 60s taking acid with Cass and Michelle rather than say Dylan.
i mean they look like a lot of fun right?

Somewhere I've got a Life or Look magazine w/an article on the group when they were peaking. In it, John claimed that they'd been in talks to do a film with Fellini. He felt it was a good pairing because "after all, we kind of are 8 1/2." Judging from stories since told, he was sorta right.

Your cousin, Marvin Cobain (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 6 October 2010 01:49 (seven years ago) Permalink

mama overjoyed in the presence of food

buzza, Wednesday, 6 October 2010 03:26 (seven years ago) Permalink

one year passes...

Just stumbled over this terrific clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aYAUE6is7I&feature=related

clemenza, Wednesday, 25 January 2012 19:49 (five years ago) Permalink

four months pass...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58hY1OtBlDQ

buzza, Sunday, 10 June 2012 08:32 (five years ago) Permalink

two weeks pass...

"monday monday" is one weird-ass piece of songwriting. they step through four keys in the course of the song, going up a half step from the "monday monday" part to the "every other day" part, then another half step when they return for the next "monday monday" part and yet another half step when they go back to "every other day." but that's not the weird part. that's just '60s pop fun. the weird part is that the second chord of each "monday monday" part is the same chord as the second chord of the accompanying "every other day" part even though the parts are a half-step apart. that chord really shouldn't work in both parts. but it does. wikipedia says the song is in chromatic-minor and features the neapolitan chord. i have no idea what any of that means except that the neapolitan chord makes me hungry for ice cream. and that i love everything about this song.

fact checking cuz, Monday, 25 June 2012 07:10 (five years ago) Permalink

That was one of the best posts I have ever read.

banjoboy, Monday, 25 June 2012 09:35 (five years ago) Permalink

two years pass...

Cass Elliot died 40 years ago today. Wonderful voice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_phmZG9bMY

Tommy McTommy (Tom D.), Tuesday, 29 July 2014 08:00 (three years ago) Permalink

There's a little bit on Mama Cass's death in this John Phillips documentary around 41:00, including some emotional reaction from Phillips concerning her voice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTbLds3BAPM

clemenza, Tuesday, 29 July 2014 22:01 (three years ago) Permalink

I've been really into her post-group solo albums lately. It's a shame they're so overlooked.

Johnny Fever, Wednesday, 30 July 2014 02:21 (three years ago) Permalink

I only have one of her own LPs, but love this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-4_uyKrH1U

clemenza, Wednesday, 30 July 2014 02:58 (three years ago) Permalink

I've been really into her post-group solo albums lately. It's a shame they're so overlooked.

Hmmmmm, not convinced by them tbh, material often isn't worthy of her and, anyway, seems like she could never work out quite what or where she was supposed to be... musically. Interestingly the songs written by her sister are very often the best things on her solo albums.

Tommy McTommy (Tom D.), Wednesday, 30 July 2014 16:43 (three years ago) Permalink

I remember the news of Cass's death... I was visiting Washington DC with my dad when I heard, just before Nixon resigned. She did a lot of TV variety shows in the solo period.

son of a lewd monk (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 30 July 2014 16:48 (three years ago) Permalink

There's an interview that goes with the clip I posted, from the Mike Douglas Show, where she's really charming and funny but noticeably coy about revealing her real name, I suppose being Jewish was still too 'ethnic' for the world at large?

Tommy McTommy (Tom D.), Wednesday, 30 July 2014 16:54 (three years ago) Permalink

This is nice. Gotta cut some slack for the duet partner, seeing as he wrote it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKdknYaSHgE

I'm sure they wanted to mention Nixon by name but couldn't.

clemenza, Wednesday, 30 July 2014 23:48 (three years ago) Permalink

two years pass...

I read "California Dreaming" - a graphic novel about Cass's life leading up to joining the Mamas & the Papas. This is really very good! The best graphic novel/comic book biography I've read. Unlike some other such efforts, the characters here are very well drawn and quite deep. Cass sounds like such a cool person. Good story too - about persistence and being talented with life challenges and all that. Makes you wish you could've met her. Totally recommend this if you are remotely interested in her or the band. It's a fancy hardback book that you can probably get in a decent library like I did.

everything, Monday, 17 July 2017 23:15 (four months ago) Permalink

Just watched Monterey Pop on the big screen last night , and they were glorious at that show.

Plus the shot of Mama Cass's reaction (in the audience, mind blown) at the end of Janis's "Ball and Chain" was the highlight of the documentary for me... not least because it echoed exactly what I was feeling.

never have i been a blue calm sea (collardio gelatinous), Tuesday, 18 July 2017 01:52 (four months ago) Permalink

Makes you wish you could've met her.

Every bit of footage I've ever seen of her, whether performing or being interviewed, she just radiates friendliness. Tried to find this priceless Sullivan clip where Ed basically blanks out during the post-performance banter, much to the amusement of Cass and the group, but can't--it's in a John Phillips documentary that's disappeared from YouTube.

clemenza, Thursday, 20 July 2017 02:11 (four months ago) Permalink

House across the street is blasting California Dreaming by the Mamas and Papas right now and it sounds so good. Even floating through the air from a slightly cracked kitchen window, it sounds great.

brotherlovesdub, Thursday, 20 July 2017 03:17 (four months ago) Permalink

Outtake from the first album:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPis-2HP3Ow

timellison, Thursday, 20 July 2017 03:37 (four months ago) Permalink

seems like she could never work out quite what or where she was supposed to be...musically.

I think the intent of that first album is quite clear, actually - a sort of affinity for a particular type of contemporary songwriting. I find it to be pretty cohesive. The album it reminds me most of is Chelsea Girl.

timellison, Thursday, 20 July 2017 04:21 (four months ago) Permalink

brotherlovesdub OTM

Paisley Window Pane (Ross), Thursday, 20 July 2017 05:08 (four months ago) Permalink

(xp) Yes, but she abandoned that approach pretty quickly, I guess because it didn't sell.

weird echo of the falsies (Tom D.), Thursday, 20 July 2017 07:42 (four months ago) Permalink

The Mann-Weill singles that followed are fantastic, though. Especially the first two. They have to be some of her most virtuosic performances.

timellison, Saturday, 22 July 2017 01:35 (four months ago) Permalink

I feel like putting The Papas and the Mamas on that 'last classic album you were knocked out by' thread (though I don't really know what its reputation is). That thing is something.

timellison, Saturday, 22 July 2017 02:13 (four months ago) Permalink

When I went looking for that John Phillips documentary the other day, discovered something I didn't know: Denny Doherty released a couple of solo albums in the early '70s. Checked Amazon, a little pricey, so I explored other options...sorry Denny Doherty estate.

The first one, Watcha Gonna Do, has a cover of "Got a Feelin'," my favourite Mamas & Papas song. You'd think that one would be a cinch, but Doherty's version is just okay--the exaggeratedly deep voice he pulls out for some of it is off-putting. The best thing on there for me is the weird Hank Williams cover, "Hey Good Lookin'," that was evidently unfinished. "Tuesday Morning"'s pretty good too. The second album, Waiting for a Song, didn't make an impression.

The documentary is Straight Shooter. Besides the Sullivan clip I mention above, there's another really sad clip of John and Michelle guesting on Doherty's Canadian TV show in the late '70s. John's in the throes of heroin addiction, and as he starts rambling during some post-song banter, the other two look mortified.

clemenza, Sunday, 23 July 2017 03:07 (four months ago) Permalink

two months pass...

"Mansions," you guys...

timellison, Thursday, 5 October 2017 04:44 (two months ago) Permalink

Cloudy waters cast no reflection
Images of beauty lie there stagnant
Vibrations bounce in no direction
And lie there shattered into fragments

timellison, Saturday, 7 October 2017 02:21 (two months ago) Permalink


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