sonny sharrock, including but NOT limited to "Ask the Ages"

Complementary artists: Ray Russell?

He was great.

AND SPACE GHOST COAST TO COAST

I got some flamenco earlier this year (Flamenco Primer) and I think some of sonny/linda section is in the same ballpark as that between flamenco singer/gtr player on the cds mentioned on that thread.

ray russell thread: ray russell live at the ICA

(sure there's a thread on ulmer but for some reason search fucks up)

Also recommended:

Paradise (semi-New/No Wave stuff from the mid-70s, occasionally too purty but with some weird/cool keyboard stuff around his solos on a few tracks)
Pharaoh Sanders, Izipho Zam (big band incl. tuba, which is selling point enough, but Sonny gets off a few nice solos, particularly on the half-hour final track)
I like all the Last Exit discs, but most are difficult to locate these days in non-downloaded form. My favorites are Cassette Recordings '87 and Headfirst Into The Flames. The latter was recorded 2-3 years after everything else in their catalog and sounds totally different.

sharrock was also on Mile's "Jack Johnson" album

i don't like the fusiony album with Linda (paradise?)

Boy I really didn't dig that Space Ghost disc at all. And I am a massive fan. I used to own just about everything he ever played on. Just about. I never did buy Live in NYC. And I never bought the Bill Cosby CD. but yeah, I had just about everything else. I sold some stuff in a CD purge a while back. I got rid of High Life, I just could never get into the sound of that record. But I keep reading Sundar praise it around here, and I'm thinking I should have kept it; at least, he makes me want to hear it again. I also got rid of that Nicky Skopelitis duo CD. It wasn't bad by any means but, you know, how often was I really gonna pull that one out?

I'd say start with Tauhid -- the record that first turned me on to Sharrock, and one of my fave records of all-time -- then pick up Guitar, Black Woman, Last Exit's Noise of Trouble, Sieze the Rainbow, Monkey Pockie Boo, Last Exit's Iron Path ... and keep going from there if so inclined. You can safely very safely avoid the Brute Force and most of the Herbie Mann records, though he gets off a couple pretty hot solos on Hold On, I'm Comin' and Windows Opened...

I also got rid of that Nicky Skopelitis duo CD. It wasn't bad by any means but, you know, how often was I really gonna pull that one out?

it really wasn't good. pretty much new age.

in a completely different setting I like him on Don Cherry's Eternal Rhythm

Yeah, Fat are pretty great. I haven't listened to them in a while. I know they made at least 3 records. That I am aware of anyway. There was Hit on These, Magnetizer on Megaphone, and Automat Hi-Life on Rachot (the Czech label).

Sonny Sharrock and the Starlites - 1953 Revue Band: All-out classic R&B and doo-wop covers with feedback guitar shred.

I need to check out more of this shit. I like Last Exit's Koln but haven't heard any of the others. Do they compare?

I quite liked Ginger Baker's No Material myself, which features Last Exit but with GB on drums. I think Stormy wasn't so into it though.

"the o...nly emperor is the emperor of ice cream. he comes...to bring...the cream. the emperor. goat's milk."

Look for it on soulseek.

last exit live were disappointing the time i saw em (times?) (bah i am so old)

the shannon jacksons vary but some of em are tremendous (some of em are lame) (haha i interviews jackson too, he wz a bit scary and told me he liked zep)

ditto blood (except the liking zep)

i actually like kaspar's sound better but his stuff is entirely non-improv and feels congealed to me (maybe it wouldn't if i didn't know that) (maybe i only think i know that)

Ronald shannon jackson's the decoding society
James Blood Ulmer

(Julio I thank ye)

Blythe I never really explored outside of Metamorphosis and The Grip. Two really excellent records. I don't know why I never delved into his Columbia stuff. There sure was a lot of it. You see the records around all the time. He's just one of those guys, like his WSQ mate Murray, who put out tons and tons of records. I like him, though, so I'm not sure why I haven't picked up a few. And they're always cheap too.

bonus points for Vernon Reids backward mandolin playing.

SONNY SHARROCK: ON IMPROVISATION
As told to Dannette Hill
MY VIEW OF IMPROVISATION IS VERY PERSONAL, FULL of love, anger, truth, lies, and, in the end (I hope), sense. According to Webster's, to improvise is "to compose without previous preparation," or "to make or devise from what is at hand".

There are three basic types of improvisers, the foremost being "the creator," who has an insatiable need to tell his story. For him, improvisation is only a tool. He plays each solo as if it were his last. He will not be compromised, nor will he be stopped. Next is "the juggler," for whom the skill of improvisation is just as important as is the need to tell his story. The juggler gathers around him all of the things he has heard, and one by one tosses them into the air. With his skillful hands he cleverly keeps them aloft. He seldom drops an idea, because he knows them all so well.Finally, there is "the tinkerer, whose improvisations are based on formulas and the instrument itself. His scientific manipulation of sound is laboratory-created and laboratory-bound forever. Making up a subcategory, if you will, is "the fool." He claims he is bored with music, so he has decided to make noise. Fool + Noise = Bullshit. Throughout this discussion, I speak mainly about jazz music, for three reasons. First, because it is the music I know best, and it is also 90% improvised. Second, because classical music has not been improvised for at least 200 years. And last, because rock is pop music, with the singer and the song being the main components. Rock instrumental solos fall mainly into the "juggler" category. Regardless of the style of music, guitarists are such an insular group that they have become incestuous. They never listen to other instruments, but instead feed upon each other. It's no wonder that everyone sounds the same. My main influences have always been horn players and drummers. I'm always slightly amused when I see a magazine mention Charlie Parker, Miles Davis, or John Coltrane along with an identification of their instrument. How can anyone think of being a musician and not be familiar with these men? If you ever hope to be a serious improviser, you have to know what, how, and why these and many others contributed to improvisation.

There are five main starting points for improvisation: melody, chords, scales/modes, tonal centers, and freedom. Most improvisers use a combination of these to obtain a particular sound. Throughout any improvisation, it helps to have a clear vision of the melody. I always strive to make my improvisations sound like a song. Melody is the first thing you learn and the last thing you hear before you impro- vise. Melody is the song. In my solo on "Broken Toys" [Sonny Sharrock--Guitar, Enemy102) I improvise pieces of melody and use them to develop a new one, which becomes the song.

Although a composer might use chords in conjunction with a melody, an improvisation based on the chords can be totally un- related to the original song. The technique for improvising on chord changes is fairly simple: You apply the appropriate scales and arpeggios to the chords. The hard part is to turn this into music. Charlie Parker and John Coltrane were probably the two greatest chordal improvisers who ever lived. They go beyond the standard technique, extending the scales and substituting and layering chords over the basic chord changes. Modal playing is the opposite of chordal improvisation. Instead of applying scales to chords, the scales create the harmony by emphasizing different notes. Soloing on tonal centers is different than modal and chordal playing, although it is a combination of the two. It simply uses either the most dominant tonality in a set of chord changes or a melody as the basis for a solo. Ornette Coleman is a master of this type of improvisation. He builds upon the melody, shifting his tonal center at will.

Finally, there is freedom--the most misunderstood and the most misused of all these elements. Freedom grows out of improvisation. It is both your emotional peak and your deeper self. It is the cry of jazz. The one rule for playing free is that you can play anything you want. A critic once remarked to me that it takes a great amount of taste to play free. He was wrong. Artists cannot be hampered by the restriction of taste. What playing free does take is imagination and confidence. In free playing, there is nothing else to stand on; it's like walking in space. If you're confident, you will not fall. The road forms beneath your feet as your imagination takes you places arrived at by no other means. My confidence in the beauty of the music carries me through. Coltrane's Ascension [MCA, 29020] is the best example of freedom. Jugglers, tinkers, and fools try to play free; however, they will never succeed. It is reserved only for the masters.

I have referred to these techniques and devices as starting points, because they are what you should use to develop your improvisation. However, you must attempt to go beyond them. Your solo should be a work of art, not a technical display, which is the most difficult part to trying to create great work. Your work must be great, or it is nothing. There is no middle ground. A couple of years ago I toured Europe playing duos with saxophonists and other guitarists. We played in museums, coffee houses and anyplace where 20 to 30 people could fit into. I took these gigs partly as a challenge, because I wanted to see if I could make music without a rhythm section behind me. About halfway through the first set on the first night, I realized that I had not gone to any of the beautiful places that music always takes me. Instead, I was struggling to come up with ideas and devices to make the music meaningful. I failed. Night after night I failed. Duke Ellington was right, when he stated the first rule of music in his song title "it Don't Mean A Thing If It Ain't Got That Swing." I had forgetton this. I was trying to be interesting and clever, but instead I ended up playing bullshit.

Swing is based in confidence. It is the grace that you acquire after years of paying dues. Technically, it could be the emphasis placed on a note or part of a phrase that gives it movement; however, don't forget that technique is only a beginning. Swing is the dividing line between those who can play and those who can't. Although the term was first used by jazz musicians, all music can swing in its own way; it simply depends on who's playing it. Little Richard, Professor Longhair, Aaron Copland, Bo Diddley, Samuel Barber, and Sonny Terry all swing mightily without ever having played a note of jazz.

Music can be played at breakneck tempos, or as slow as the most painful blues. It can be composed or improvised, but swing it must. The swing that I use is the same swing that Benny Moten spoke of in the 1930s, that Bird and Dizzy used in the 50s, that Thelonious Monk turned inside out and Miles turned into a groove, and that Coltrane, Ornette, and Cecil Taylor set free. Goddammit, you really can't play without it!

A rhythm section that plays static, highly arranged music behind a soloist doesn't add much, but one that swings and improvises brings excitement and surprise to the music. They make the music as wonderful as a first love and as devastating as death. I love to play with drummers who play loud, long, and strong. Many years ago I had the good fortune of playing with Elvin Jones. I always pay a lot of attention to the way a drummer uses his ride i cymbal; Elvin plays it differently than anyone I've ever heard. His time is impeccable, but he doesn't use the standard repetitive rhythm on the ride: Instead, he accents his ceaseless snare and tom patterns with it. Elvin's high-hat cymbal does not always fall on the traditional second, and fourth beats; like his ride, it too is used to accent when necessary. With all of this coming at you at once, you hear and play differently. You swing or you die. When I played with Elvin for the first time, I was afraid that I would be swallowed up by the music coming out of the drums. Eventually I got my nerve together and let myself go into the music. I started to develop melodies based on the rhythmic phrases. My confidence grew. I realized that I could not get lost, because I was in the hands of a master drummer and improviser. I had just met swing head-on for the first time. All great improvisers spend many years developing their own sound. On the other hand, many guitarists buy their sound in little boxes, or, if they can afford it, in rack-mounted "stairways to heaven." If their individuality is ever questioned, they just point to their digital read-outs to show that their numbers are different from the other guy's in town. Ultimately, your sound is your hands. It may i take a lifetime for it to reach its fullness, but playing is a lifetime gig. if you're not totally serious, do yourself and the world a favor and just do weddings, or buy a can of mousse and become a 6-string gladiator from hell and make some money.

Imitating someone else's sound is unforgivable. I've known cats who began by trying to sound like their favorite players. Now 25 years later they are struggling to develop individuality--what a waste of time. No one remembers the imitators. Miles is Miles, Coltrane is Coltrane, and Sonny Sharrock is Sonny Sharrock. For better or worse, you are your own truth. Likewise, I hate to see soloists thinking onstage. At that point you should only be concerned with feeling. Trying to find places to insert your favorite licks is like painting by numbers: Always correct and always boring. When I'm improvising, I don't want to spend time groping for notes, so I find all of the appropriate scales and modes within a few frets. By starting scales with your left-hand 3rd and 4th fingers, you can minimize your movement' up and down the fretboard. This allows you to concentrate on creating melodies instead of performing gymnastics. Remember that your improvisation must have feeling. It must swing and it must have beauty, be it the fragile beauty of a snowflake or the terrible beauty of an erupting volcano. Beauty--no matter how disturbing or how still--is always true. Don't be afraid to let go of the things you know. Defy your weaker, safer self. Create. Make music.

jeez this guy is frustrating

do go on

is Seize the Rainbow good? i passed on a vinyl copy of it last week because i was on my bike and didn't have a bag to carry it in. hoping it'll still be there (small store sorta off the beaten track)

yes that one is good!!

Monkey Pockie Boo is my favorite. The recordings with Pharoah and Marzette Watts are also excellent. I don't really care for the disc with Nicky Skopelitis, and something about Guitar has always left me a bit cold.

Paradise (w/ Linda) has its charms.

I went back to Guitar not long ago, and it felt really...freeze-dried and '80s.

downloaded Seize the Rainbow to give it a test drive. halfway through and it's good, but i'm glad i didn't buy it. too much heavy metal, not enough spiritualism. reminds me tons of Scorch Trio on rune grammofon (and other bjorkenstein stuff.)

http://img11.nnm.ru/2/3/5/7/e/2357e88af03e84edbf0b331b28d8ec51_full.jpg

I*s there any early 60s interaction between Sonny and Miles Davis? I've just seen credits listed for him being on the box set Seven Steps Complete which is the full Miles recordings from 63-64.
I thought they only recorded together on that Jack Johnson session.
So is that credit totally wrong?

There is no credit for Sharrock on the Seven Steps box. Are you thinking of Sam Rivers?

The only time Miles and Sharrock played together was Sharrock's Echoplex stabs on the A Tribute To Jack Johnson soundtrack.

Obviously somebody torrenting it has picked up the credits from a dodgy source which I had suspected.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvkUSUlPkZs

live on French tv in 1970 I think with Beb Guerin (b) and Famoudou Don Moye (dms). & footage of Linda singing or whatever.

having a very electric guitar time of things and Sharrock is absolutely the man for me right now

I was wondering who had come along 'in the school of' Sonny. Did anybody of note or is his style too idiosyncratic.
Don't think I've come across a load of black noise/free guitarists outside of him, Hendrix, Pete Cosey and presumably Vernon Reid (since he was part of the Decoding Society I'm assuming he had leanings in that direction . Oh yeah James Blood Ulmer possibly. Think I should be better versed. Did Dr Know do much outside the Bad Brains who had started out as a jazz fusion group.

well Sharrock is so harmonic compared to a lot of the free and wild guys -- you get so much sparkling major key joy -- I think Dustin Wong and Matt Papich, as Ecstatic Sunshine, were a mathier version of that energy, I suspect there's people in that sort of noise world doing this stuff but I don't know their names. I bet Whiney would.

Don't think I've come across a load of black noise/free guitarists outside of him, Hendrix, Pete Cosey and presumably Vernon Reid (since he was part of the Decoding Society I'm assuming he had leanings in that direction . Oh yeah James Blood Ulmer possibly. Think I should be better versed.

Check out Brandon Ross, who's in Harriet Tubman as well as Breath Of Air, who have an album on my label. It's guitar-violin-drums improv:

https://breathofair.bandcamp.com/album/breath-of-air

Some of the Tisziji Muñoz albs like Auspicious Healing are the closest thing I know to Ask the Ages (Muñoz was in Pharaoh Sanders' band for a while, and Sanders plays on the Muñoz alb Divine Radiance (along with, of all people, Paul Shaffer on keyboards)).

unperson otmon Ross & compatriots, will check out these others too, thanks!

A barely adequate P&J comment of mine on a guy def worth hearing, dazzling at tymes:

Omar Khorshid and His Group
Live in Australia 1981
Post-surf electric Eastern modal clarity in waves, wires (duh), and other forms.
Sound quality doesn't bother me at all, though if I knew his studio, suppose it might. Can always turn it up. The excitement of music and audience def cuts through. This Egyptian guitar star recorded a fair amount (see YouTube), died young. Rec to fans ov 60s-early 70s John McLaughlin and the Turkish psych masters.

Thamks Unperson will check them out.

Interesting to see Omar Khorshid turn up. I initially compared him to Link Wray when I came across a couple of his records in my local 2nd hand record shop in the late 80s. This was my first I think
//e.snmc.io/i/300/w/ba69c136212cace87aee9197c7745c00/2161340

I picked up the Sublime Frequencies compi when it came out 11 years ago
//e.snmc.io/i/300/w/9ec77a3cf6edc34b43b8d18504ffe81b/3055342

I just checked out one track by Ecstatic Sunshine which was pretty interesting.
I had been thinking that there might be artists who started out as near clones or seriously inspired by the artists I mentioned in the way that George Benson started out as a Wes Montgomery inspired guitarist and Sacha Distel as a Django Reinhardt inspired one. Before finding their own style and moving out on their own. I don't know many black jazz/free guitarists though I assume there are a load I don't know. Couldn't name the guy who I notice with Sun Ra in the deep space electric era from the turn of the 80s offhand which is an oversight . Presumably Skeeter McFarland or Taylor Richardson

You might also like James Carter's Layin' In The Cut, with rough-riding guitarist Jef Lee Johnson alongside Marc Ribot, Jamaaladeen Tacuma, G. Calvin Weston---and there are several albums involving guitars among all the others that I need to check out here: https://jamaaladeentacuma.bandcamp.com/music

And another ballot note, with a guitarist I hoped to hear a lot more---

JASON MORAN: Same Mothers (Blue Note). Unlike many young jazz pianists, Jason Moran is less influenced by the emphatic lyricism of McCoy Tyner than by the mercurial speculations of Andrew Hill, who also co-composed some of the tracks on this album. Here, hellhound-chasin' Jason introduces his agile (and hip-hop savvy) trio to the acoustic and electric blues guitars of Marvin Sewell (previously and more sedately employed by Cassandra Wilson).

N.B.: Brandon Ross was also in Cassandra Wilson's band for several years and did a lot of the arranging on her big albums.

guy from the band sunwatchers gets to a similar place sometimes. i think they are underrated and a must-hear for horse lords fans.

i see that he (jim mchugh) has more recently collaborated with eugene chadbourne, so i'll have to check that out.

Love the Sunwatchers' Oh Yeah?, that was my gateway. On their other 2020 release, the Brave Rats EP, my faves are "Blind Willie" and "Ptah, The El Daoud," which is live. They have a whole live set among the earlier things on Bandcamp, which go back to 2014 now, I see--it's all happenin' here: https://sunwatchers.bandcamp.com/album/oh-yeah

I saw that Sunwatchers' Brave Rats e.p. had a cover of Blind Willie on it. I know the song from Sonny Sharrock's Guitar lp. I think it was something he played a lot with different backing groups. JUst had it come on and it is the song I was thinking of.

This one's getting a reissue this month — pretty great late 60s session w/ Sharrock. Has a kind of folk/jazz feel at points, mixed in with freer moments.

https://www.superiorviaduct.com/products/byard-lancaster-its-not-up-to-us-lp?_pos=1&_sid=80544ea89&_ss=r

^ one of the best records ever imo

also "ask the ages" fans owe it to themselves to check out "it's not up to us" because there's an early version of "many mansions" here called "john's children"

I remember getting a live set by most of the players from the Ask The Ages recordings live , I think it was minus Charnett MOffett if I'm thinking right. NOt seen it in a while but I have a load of the hard drives I filled with torrented sets disconnected. So there is at l;east one live set from then around.

maybe the same one that's on youtube, with Pheroaan AkLaff instead of Elvin Jones?

Yeah, that Byard alb rules. Play me some "Dogtown"! (Also became name of his label.)

Any Sharrock head would probably dig Ray Russell's late 60's/early 70's records Dragon Hill, Rites and Rituals and Live at the ICA. He was a British guitarist and mined a pretty heavily Sharrock-influenced sound on these recordings. They rip! He also played some guitar on Bill Fay's Time of the Last Persecution.

Oddly he's later known for theme tunes and jingles.
BUt yeah pretty great, his work in Running Man which was more of a song structured prog band or protoprog band was very interesting in places too. One of the guitar solos reminded me heavily of a current band I'm trying to think who, maybe Comets On Fire. Like way ahead of its time.

I'm still really intrigued as to black artists working on guitar verging on noise influences because it seems like something heavily pioneered by several that I'm not sure is still populated/practised by many. Like not to be monolithic and what makes the area interesting is the level of idiosyncracy. Plus I'm not as up on post 60s jazz etc as I'd like to be.

Harriet Tubman is the one I immediately thought of as well -- didn't realize Brandon Ross had a new album out this year, so I'm looking forward to checking that out. Unfortunately my knowledge doesn't go much deeper than that.

Yeah, I need to get into some more Russell; I only know him with Gil Evans, on The British Orchestra, which does have its own bonfires.

Here's Breath Of Air's s/t: Ross with Warren Benbow's drums, Charlie Burnham's violin, melting down moments live---https://breathofair.bandcamp.com/album/breath-of-air

always thought there was a spot of sharrock in joe morris's playing. orcutt fans may also find something to love in his solo recordings like "No vertigo" & "singularity". "symbolic gesture" from '94 would be my pick of his trio/Qt stuff, but there's an embarrassment of riches to choose from

O hell yes Joe Morris--so prolific, but seems like this is a good gateway, considering his colleagues here in particular:

Geometry of Distance (Relative Pitch): Kyoko Kitamura, Joe Morris, Tomeka Reid, Taylor Ho Bynum

The Geometry of Caves (Relative Pitch) w/ Taylor Ho Bynum, Tomeka Reid, Kyoko Kitamura

David S. Ware - Théatre Garonne, 2008 (Aum Fidelity) David S. Ware, Joe Morris, Warren Smith, William Parker

Also, I'm so far not as sold on Halvorson (as soloist, rather than accompanist or album auteur) as are a lot of other ilxors, apparently, but Morris has a duo set w her, which I haven't heard: Traversing Orbits (not even the title appeals).

I've got a 60-minute Walkman-inside-fall-jacket-quality recording of portions of Sonny's Oct '91 Toronto gig (spoken of upthread) in a storage locker a half-mile north of where I sit; the cassette also documents a 3-minute between-sets chat I had with the man (asked about Albert Ayler ("a very sweet cat") and how long the "Ask The Ages" Canadian release was due, and requested an autograph, which appears on the back of the gig flier the tape is wrapped in.) I gotta get that digitized someday.

I'll pay you to do it! Message me if you're interested :)

Thanks for the offer!

I've actually already got one of those radio/turntable/cassette players that burns CD-Rs, but it's temporarily in the same aforementioned storage locker. I'll get around to these things some day...