Stars of the Lid

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sorry if there has already been a thread on this, i couldnt find one. ive had the 'tired sounds of' for a while, and think its very pretty, and deserty, and empty.

but this weekend, i went and got their first album, music for nitrous oxide, and, it feels somehow darker, and forested

with both, i have the sort of sensation of being in a porcelain bath, on the dry flats of the aral sea.

i havent heard anything in between these 2 records, so how does the rest of it pan out, and what do you think of these 2

and also, i think i might have dismissed them, subconsiously, for a long time without hearing them, as being 'another kranky band', which is fine and all, i guess. but, from what i've heard, these stand some way above that, and dont really seem particurlarly connected to the kranky sound?

charltonlido (gareth), Sunday, 6 June 2004 17:02 (twenty years ago) link

the preacher samples on 'down' strike me as unneccessary, cheapening it somehow. having said that, i suppose its a tried and tested postrock trick to do that now, maybe less so in 94, and before all those boring gybe bands started doing it

charltonlido (gareth), Sunday, 6 June 2004 17:05 (twenty years ago) link

They're a band who I enjoy very much without ever having them immediately leap to mind as obvious favorites. Like the good folks of Windy and Carl, who also made a move to Kranky after initial releases, there's beauty in the soothing minimalism but W&C are notably much more lush and, for lack of a better term, cascading, while Stars aim more for a continuous extension of mood. In that Kranky made its initial name with Labradford there's something of a connection to the label ethos as vaguely considered.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 6 June 2004 17:13 (twenty years ago) link

I heart SotL big time.

For some reason Jessica Balliff comes to mind as a kindred soul on Kranky. Both are great choices for long lonely road trips, I think.

harshaw (jube), Sunday, 6 June 2004 17:31 (twenty years ago) link

For me, everything I found affecting and great about W&C was rendered in a lifeless and pointless way by SOTL. I've grown to appreciate them a little more over time, but I could listen to CDs eight hours a day for the rest of my life and still not think to take anything by them off the shelf

DJ Mencap (DJ Mencap), Monday, 7 June 2004 08:33 (twenty years ago) link

The first album is probably still my favorite. I like the cheapness of it, the mixed in radio, etc. The albums in between the ones you have sound more like each other than the ones you have. That is, your two are the furtherest apart in terms of sound of any of their records. I say go for The Ballasted Orchestra next, which I believe is 4-track like the first one.

Mark (MarkR), Monday, 7 June 2004 12:05 (twenty years ago) link

Both are great choices for long lonely road trips, I think.

stars of the lid on a road trip? i would fall asleep in 10 minutes.

cutty (mcutt), Monday, 7 June 2004 12:15 (twenty years ago) link

no one ever talks about that labradford/stars of the lid split 12". and it's pretty nice.

el sabor de gene (yournullfame), Monday, 7 June 2004 12:22 (twenty years ago) link

strangely, cutty, putting ambient on while driving focuses my mind and generates lots to think about, which keeps me awake.

i suggest you try it (with a passager in case you go under)

harshaw (jube), Monday, 7 June 2004 15:49 (twenty years ago) link

ten months pass...
has there been anything since tired sounds?

what it like?

charltonlido (gareth), Sunday, 17 April 2005 23:40 (nineteen years ago) link

Hmmm...I'm not sure! *checks CDs* Tired is definitely the last of the four I have.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 17 April 2005 23:43 (nineteen years ago) link

The Dead Texan !! (beautiful stuff, also on cranky, i think)

pod thai, Monday, 18 April 2005 00:03 (nineteen years ago) link

one of the best live shows i've ever seen.

hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 18 April 2005 01:09 (nineteen years ago) link

Avec Laudenum came out after the Tired Sounds on Kranky, but was
released before it on some other label. I know they have a new
one coming out pretty soon. An upcoming track was included on Kranky's new "Kompilation". Dead Texan is good, as mentioned,
but I find myself going back to Tired Sounds and Ballasted Orchestra

Zach S, Monday, 18 April 2005 02:37 (nineteen years ago) link

ahhh, i would love a new SOTL album.

fucking geniuses.

cutty (mcutt), Monday, 18 April 2005 02:40 (nineteen years ago) link

I have not come around on Ballasted Orchestra yet. Not as obviously gorgeous as Tired or Gravitational. Anyone know what I'm talking about? Is this a phase that everyone goes though on that album, like puberty?

Lukas (lukas), Monday, 18 April 2005 02:59 (nineteen years ago) link

what do you think of the dead texan record, should i get it? i like the one track ive heard, aegena airlines? its quite different, a little more, er, forceful is the wrong word, but it seems more focussed/traditional, less vague (this doesnt make it better or worse). how is the rest of the lp?

has mcbride done anything since tired sounds (other than playing upfront for fulham thati s. actually, isnt that mcbride a texan too?)

charltonlido (gareth), Sunday, 24 April 2005 10:57 (nineteen years ago) link

three weeks pass...
ive been going back to music for nitrous oxide again recently, and its much more abrasive than i'd remembered, i love the live lid track!

charltonlido (gareth), Thursday, 19 May 2005 18:06 (nineteen years ago) link

four months pass...
Brian McBride is releasing an album at the end of the month, "When the Details Lost Their Freedom". This page has mp3s and a little bit about his divorce.

Lukas (lukas), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 02:24 (eighteen years ago) link

wait sorry i think they're partial mp3s.

Lukas (lukas), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 02:25 (eighteen years ago) link

Was wondering about him! Dug Wiltzie's Dead Texan thing but was definitely curious about the other half

Roger Fidelity (Roger Fidelity), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 02:33 (eighteen years ago) link

new album plz.

cutty (mcutt), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 02:34 (eighteen years ago) link

three weeks pass...
Revive, please. I saw Dead Texan on Tuesday, quite by accident, as they were supporting Final Fantasy. What incredible sounding music! I bought the CD/DVD afterwards, I was so impressed.

Are Stars of the Lid like that as well? If Gareth likes them, chances are I would, as well.

Paranoid Spice (kate), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 07:45 (eighteen years ago) link

two months pass...
so good!

requiem for dying mothers part two is filling my room right now and sounds amazing

perhaps i am revealing my innocence, but i do not know what the name, "stars of the lid" refers to. do you?

terry lennox. (gareth), Sunday, 1 January 2006 10:11 (eighteen years ago) link

kate, yes stars of the lid are like dead texan, but less...resolved?

i love the aegena airlines track from that (, rest is good, but not essential

terry lennox. (gareth), Sunday, 1 January 2006 10:20 (eighteen years ago) link

the brian mcbride album might be better than the dead texan.

cutty (mcutt), Sunday, 1 January 2006 16:12 (eighteen years ago) link

one month passes...
while waiting for new record:

adam pacione 'sisyphus' (elevator bath)

very similar vary good

andrewc, Friday, 3 February 2006 06:25 (eighteen years ago) link

eight months pass...
Any word on a new album? As I posted back in April 2005, they had a track on the Kranky Kompilation album that was listed as a song from their "forthcoming" album. Dead Texan, half of Stars of the Lid, put out an excellent solo album, as did Brian McBride, the other half. Where's the new album, dammit!?

I thought of them yesterday when I heard Harold Budd & Eno's "The Pearl" for the first time, and it struck me as Dead Texan-esque.

Zachary Scott (Zach S), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 19:17 (seventeen years ago) link

Still no news... *taps fingers*

Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 20:35 (seventeen years ago) link

Dead Texan is nice but not a solo album, it's a group (a duo).

sylvie and babs (sylvie and babs), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 20:55 (seventeen years ago) link

Dead Texan is nice but not a solo album, it's a group (a duo).

Oh, really? Whoops. I knew that someone else did the artwork and the videos for the accompanying DVD, but I didn't know there was a musical collaborator.

Zachary Scott (Zach S), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 21:47 (seventeen years ago) link

Okay, I e-mailed Stars of the Lid to inquire about the new album, and received this in response:

"don't worry chief,
there is news and a new 2xcd 3xlp to come.

should be availible in march/april at the latest..."

I'm putting "Stars of the Lid Chief" on my business card, if I ever get one.

Zachary Scott (Zach S), Thursday, 12 October 2006 02:04 (seventeen years ago) link

one year passes...

It's just plain odd, and quite possibly counterproductive, seeing SOTL at the top of the Metacritic list of albums of 2007. Kind of counter to their whole ethos.

Mister Craig, Sunday, 18 November 2007 23:11 (sixteen years ago) link

it produces some pretty funny backlash comments though so i'm all for it

ciderpress, Sunday, 18 November 2007 23:13 (sixteen years ago) link

Robin C. gave it a 2:
This is a joke,right? These critics have such a wacky sense of humour.

Chris C gave it a 3:
Indie kids decided that the new vogue was a bunch of random tones slowly fading in and out? Why didn't they send me a memo?!


Mister Craig, Sunday, 18 November 2007 23:15 (sixteen years ago) link


Matt A. gave it a1:
This album licks my balls. It's even worse than The Field and so I guess it makes sense in an ironic way that it beats out that atrocity of an album for best of the year on this web site. The critics need to get a clue that they aren't proving anything by raving about this crap. It's aimless electronic nonsense and anyone with ears and half-decent taste in music can tell you that.

Mister Craig, Sunday, 18 November 2007 23:15 (sixteen years ago) link

Interesting that this was revived, I finally got around to hearing this today. It was pleasant enough. Good ambient music. But top of the list?

Those comments are hilarious indeed.

Bimble, Sunday, 18 November 2007 23:16 (sixteen years ago) link

I don't understand why it would be counter to their ethos? Unless you mean it's odd to rate it competitively. But it's always fun to read idiot comments.

Noodle Vague, Sunday, 18 November 2007 23:17 (sixteen years ago) link

ironically, this is probably their most "pop" record though in that there are clear melodies/passages in almost every track that stick out in my head and work as hooks, which didn't happen for me with most of tired sounds

it's a bit less minimal and more cinematic than any of their previous albums but i didn't really see anyone touch on this in any of the reviews linked from the metacritic page

ciderpress, Sunday, 18 November 2007 23:18 (sixteen years ago) link

I noticed those comments earlier. And chuckled briefly.

Just got offed, Sunday, 18 November 2007 23:19 (sixteen years ago) link

ironically, this is probably their most "pop" record though in that there are clear melodies/passages in almost every track that stick out in my head and work as hooks, which didn't happen for me with most of tired sounds

it's a bit less minimal and more cinematic than any of their previous albums but i didn't really see anyone touch on this in any of the reviews linked from the metacritic page

-- ciderpress, Sunday, 18 November 2007 23:18

I'd partially agree with that.. certainly the occasional track like 'Even If You're Never Awake (Deuxieme)' is markedly hooky by their standards.

Mister Craig, Sunday, 18 November 2007 23:22 (sixteen years ago) link

i think my favorite part of that metacritic page is
GENRE(S): Rock, Electronic

ciderpress, Sunday, 18 November 2007 23:28 (sixteen years ago) link

So, it's become imperative that I buy either "Tired Sounds. . ." or "And Their Refinement of the Decline." Either way, Is there any consensus on which is better to get first? From what I gather the consensus says Tired sounds is more so, and I'm not too familiar with, and don't want to burden myself with the arduous task of actually deciding for myself. Or, is there not much difference?

mehlt, Sunday, 25 November 2007 00:33 (sixteen years ago) link

start with tired sounds, yes.

cutty, Sunday, 25 November 2007 00:37 (sixteen years ago) link

*Should say "Not too familiar with "And Their Refinement. . ." I have, in fact, made my own decisions before.

mehlt, Sunday, 25 November 2007 00:54 (sixteen years ago) link

tired sounds is more singular in tone to atrotd; atrotd goes for full-on widescreen euphoria, where tired sounds culminates with a series of endless blissed out drones. kinda like the difference between inner and outer space. both are some of the best music ever recorded imo so you need both really. even if you only start with one you'll get the other eventually.

going to watch them live on monday. gonna be sick.

r1o natsume, Sunday, 25 November 2007 01:02 (sixteen years ago) link

I agree with the post above re: the singular tone vs widesceen thing, and that if you like the one you'll want the other eventually. Still, I'd say start with Tired Sounds, as it contains perhaps the greatest consecutive 15 minutes of music they've ever made - Requiem for Dying Mothers, Pts 1 and 2, which somehow manages to evoke the feeling of drifting around in North Atlantic coastal waves, or some impossibly long descent from the top of a tree as a falling leaf, or maybe just peaceful last breaths before dying, all without sounding nearly as gay as I just made it sound. And the rest of the album is nearly as good. Refinement goes for a more varied blissed out feeling, and succeeds, mostly, but if you dig the melancholy mood of Tired Sounds, you'll be obsessed.

Z S, Sunday, 25 November 2007 01:18 (sixteen years ago) link

i was really upset by those metacritic posts.

cutty, Sunday, 25 November 2007 01:29 (sixteen years ago) link

Of the next 5-10 cd's I buy, there's a good chance both will be included. It's honestly sometimes hard to fathom how much of an affect they can get out of so little, it's some of the most viscerally captivating and straightforward music I've heard in so long.

mehlt, Sunday, 25 November 2007 02:29 (sixteen years ago) link

three months pass...

woohoo, live in Seattle at the Triple Door 4/18!!!
(with Christopher Willits and Lusine)

Mackro Mackro, Friday, 29 February 2008 21:37 (sixteen years ago) link

have never dived into WVftS and this conversation is not exactly lighting a fire under me. But When the Detail Lost its Freedom is A+++, I definitely love it as much as the SotL records, though I think of it as pretty different (at least within the paradigm of this type of music, I'm sure they'd be indistiguishable to someone pulled off the street)

Lavator Shemmelpennick, Wednesday, 15 March 2023 12:27 (one year ago) link

I really love the album that Wiltzie made with Robert Donne from Labradford under the name Aix em Klemm— I think it’s Wiltzie’s best work outside of SotL.

Goose Bigelow, Fowl Gigolo (the table is the table), Wednesday, 15 March 2023 20:52 (one year ago) link

yep, that one's great!

Paul Ponzi, Wednesday, 15 March 2023 21:00 (one year ago) link

I still believe that The Dead Texan record is the best non-SotL record by a SotL member.

Elvis Telecom, Wednesday, 15 March 2023 21:13 (one year ago) link

three months pass...

Why, this is good to see

Ned Raggett, Saturday, 17 June 2023 00:29 (one year ago) link

welll, that was a mightily cruel thread bump :) we're never seeing a new album, are we?

JonR345, Saturday, 17 June 2023 01:35 (one year ago) link

two months pass...

Pitchfork is reporting that Brian McBride has died. Terrible news.

Paul Ponzi, Sunday, 27 August 2023 15:58 (ten months ago) link



— krankyltd (@krankyltd) August 27, 2023

Murgatroid, Sunday, 27 August 2023 15:59 (ten months ago) link

Oh my fucking god :(

Snoopy is a cat, who lives in a cage (flamboyant goon tie included), Sunday, 27 August 2023 16:00 (ten months ago) link

Awful news

butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table), Sunday, 27 August 2023 16:02 (ten months ago) link

Horrible, horrible.

Ned Raggett, Sunday, 27 August 2023 16:09 (ten months ago) link

His solo work is also whew, so good. I love this album.

butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table), Sunday, 27 August 2023 16:10 (ten months ago) link

When asked what he will miss the most when he’s gone during an interview with podcast Five Questions, McBride said surprises. “Maybe you’re in a matter of fact mood, you’re driving home from doing a bunch of errands, you see somebody walking their dog, and the cat has gone on the walk with dog and the owner, and she’s running past them, showing off, scratching the trees. And you suddenly take delight in that,” he explained. “The weird appreciation for the mundane or the banal. That’s what I’ll miss the most. The times when you can surprise yourself and notice things that seem quite matter of fact but are actually quite beautiful depending on how you look at it.”

big oof

butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table), Sunday, 27 August 2023 16:12 (ten months ago) link

I had to get some thoughts out of my head:

Ned Raggett, Sunday, 27 August 2023 17:15 (ten months ago) link

very lovely, Ned. truly difficult to describe my relationship with this music— it seems almost all-encompassing at times.

butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table), Sunday, 27 August 2023 17:26 (ten months ago) link

Thank you. It's that sense of scope and immersion without...without drowning you in it, if that makes sense. You feel it more than hear it.

Ned Raggett, Sunday, 27 August 2023 17:29 (ten months ago) link

Ah fucking hell, no way. RIP.

(picnic, lightning) very very frightening (Chinaski), Sunday, 27 August 2023 17:42 (ten months ago) link

i remember years ago when i coached hs debate and i was looking at the ut austin summer debate camps (which i soon discovered our school could never afford). i saw one of the coaches names there as brian mcbride and thought, ha that guy has the same name as the guy from sotl. and then i found it it was the same guy and my mind split apart. everytime i'd listen to them i'd marvel at these grieving sound poems and then think, man imagine this guy teaching teenagers how to spread in debate.

oatly carmichael (m bison), Sunday, 27 August 2023 18:11 (ten months ago) link

Just devastating.

ian, Sunday, 27 August 2023 18:24 (ten months ago) link

While my primary musical interest as a teenager was rave culture, my tastes were eclectic (e.g., I started posting here as a teenager). When I started attending parties, I couldn’t understand why ambient and drone didn’t didn’t permeate into dance music culture. The cultures felt, despite their shared history and interests (e.g., computers and drugs), antagonistic toward each other in the late-90s/early-00s. It was particularly baffling in Detroit where the specialized shops like Stormy (Wendy & Carl’s shop) and Neptune exclusively catered towards these two cultures. The one exception was Stars of the Lid. Everyone loved them. This band from, of all places, Texas, was the one artist that managed to bring together all these disparate Detroit music sub-cultures. By 2007 with the release of “And Their Refinement of the Decline” it felt bizarre to think these sub-cultures were so isolated. They truly brought people together.

Allen (etaeoe), Sunday, 27 August 2023 18:34 (ten months ago) link

i.e., rip

Allen (etaeoe), Sunday, 27 August 2023 18:35 (ten months ago) link

legit been reaching out to people with whom i shared major life moments with to this music— i remember my friend Eric giving me a bunch of SotL mp3s in early 2008 when all i’d heard was ATROTD.

butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table), Sunday, 27 August 2023 18:38 (ten months ago) link

multi xpost

just had a debate coach friend of mine reach out to me. apparently when my friend was a young debater, mcbride was his judge on occasion. when he later became a teacher, his debate kids worked with mcbride and apparently he put on little concerts for the students. he had no idea of mcbride's side gig as a musician until i told him about it some years ago.

oatly carmichael (m bison), Sunday, 27 August 2023 18:51 (ten months ago) link

oh how my heart aches

ꙮ (map), Sunday, 27 August 2023 19:04 (ten months ago) link

refinement was so healing for me in such a crucial and dangerous moment in my life. the beauty there is unfathomable.

ꙮ (map), Sunday, 27 August 2023 19:05 (ten months ago) link

very sad about this as both an ambient/drone fan and a one-time forensics club kid (didn't know that about him until i read the p4k obit). RIP, too too soon

donna rouge, Sunday, 27 August 2023 19:10 (ten months ago) link

stars of the lid are my most played artist in itunes. it's not even close. it's reductive to describe the influence of music in numbers like this, especially music with as much soul and grace as the music of brian mcbride.

but the amount of _time_ i have spent with mcbride's (and adam wiltzie's) music ... it is a part of me. i will never forget the nights i spent alone in the control room of the 107" telescope at the mcdonald observatory, refinement of the decline blasting out in the silent high desert. rip brian.

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Monday, 28 August 2023 00:47 (ten months ago) link

Really sad news. I recall that Brian was briefly on the DroneOn list just as SOTL were signed to Kranky. Nice guy. Remarkable music that continues to resonate. RIP.

sawdust lagoon, Monday, 28 August 2023 02:33 (ten months ago) link

Just awful news. Refinement might be my most-listened to ever album.

toby, Monday, 28 August 2023 04:03 (ten months ago) link

Sawdust - I ran the DroneOn list. I remember when I saw that he subscribed. Kinda undone by this... RIP

Elvis Telecom, Monday, 28 August 2023 06:35 (ten months ago) link

his music has meant so much to me. really sad news. RIP.

i really like that!! (z_tbd), Monday, 28 August 2023 13:42 (ten months ago) link

This was not what I was expecting to see when I saw the thread revive yesterday.

Stars of the Lid—and Brian’s solo work—are simply transcendent. I like a lot of ambient music but SotL have always hit a different emotional button. Nobody, in any genre, elicits the same feelings in me that they could. All these years later I was still holding out hope for one more album. What a loss.

sctttnnnt (pgwp), Monday, 28 August 2023 15:32 (ten months ago) link

“Even if You’re Never Awake (Deuxieme)” just wrecks me, it’s so beautiful.

butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table), Monday, 28 August 2023 15:41 (ten months ago) link

RIP. When I think of Stars of the Lid, I think of specific, vivid times in my life when I was seeking quiet and calm for myself and the people I love: writing my graduate thesis in the library late at night; a restless, painful day in the hospital with my partner when our first child was born; laying beside that child years later on a school night when they were anxious and struggling to fall asleep... Stars of the Lid is almost always the first thing I think to play in these moments. I will forever be grateful to have their music.

It was heartening to read the sentiment in this tweet:

It was my privilege to have worked on behalf of the music Brian McBride made. It was my pleasure to have known him. I'll remember cats and conversations on cold Chicago nights. Believe me when I say that he knew how much the music meant to us all.

— Bruce Adams (@BruceMAdams) August 27, 2023

Indexed, Monday, 28 August 2023 15:51 (ten months ago) link

Yes, that.

djh, Monday, 28 August 2023 17:38 (ten months ago) link

A lovely comment from Jeff Copas on FB, from the long running (and very good) Austin band Sixteen Deluxe:

I counted Brian as a friend, starting with our radio gigs at UT in the early 90s (I took over the “grunge” show from him, he having wisely moved on to less well-trod pastures). He was funny and frighteningly intelligent, with an eye on the horizon way beyond where most could see. A terrible and tragic loss.

Ned Raggett, Monday, 28 August 2023 18:56 (ten months ago) link

Philip Shelburne celebrates the good man:

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 29 August 2023 00:48 (ten months ago) link

two months pass...

i've been playing refinement a lot over the past few months. miraculous music.

ꙮ (map), Saturday, 18 November 2023 04:11 (eight months ago) link

one month passes...

any time i want to be transported to a more peaceful and reflective state of mind, i put on decline. i'm happy to say i'll likely be listening to it regularly until i die.

ꙮ (map), Monday, 18 December 2023 02:23 (seven months ago) link

two months pass...

Releases April 5. Vinyl / CD (yay) pre-order now.

the body of a spider... (scampering alpaca), Tuesday, 27 February 2024 18:08 (four months ago) link

lol at that last song title

tylerw, Tuesday, 27 February 2024 18:34 (four months ago) link

And now a nice video too

Xgau Murder Spa (nikola), Saturday, 2 March 2024 01:34 (four months ago) link

I'm lucky enough to have heard the album.

I won't say much except to say that those, like me, who have found the excessively sentimental and overly-orchestrated cast of recent Winged Victory, etc, will be pleased with how enjoyably sparse and at times harmonically dissonant (ish) this is...

JonR345, Saturday, 2 March 2024 03:44 (four months ago) link

dang, that video is something

z_tbd, Saturday, 2 March 2024 05:49 (four months ago) link

one month passes...

I like Wiltzie's album more than the last few AWVFTS albums though it's still just okay. Generally like the vibe but nothing grabbing me the way the best SOTL stuff does.

sctttnnnt (pgwp), Monday, 8 April 2024 18:55 (three months ago) link

Yeah I found Winged Victory disappointing too. Can’t believe those SOTL albums are 20+ years old

Slorg is not on the Slerf Team, you idiot, you moron (Boring, Maryland), Monday, 8 April 2024 19:11 (three months ago) link

starting to think McBride was the secret weapon

Paul Ponzi, Monday, 8 April 2024 19:22 (three months ago) link

If you’ve listened to his first solo album, it’s absolutely clear he was the secret weapon

sctttnnnt (pgwp), Monday, 8 April 2024 19:50 (three months ago) link

^^^ love it as much as SotL

Lavator Shemmelpennick, Tuesday, 9 April 2024 15:25 (three months ago) link

Me too

sctttnnnt (pgwp), Tuesday, 9 April 2024 16:03 (three months ago) link

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