Is Bob Dylan overrated?

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What do you think?

Atomic Clock, Tuesday, 17 February 2004 17:36 (fifteen years ago) link

No, but some of his songs may be.

Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 17:39 (fifteen years ago) link

I think it's another case of this:
Most Underrated Overrated Band?

jody (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 17:41 (fifteen years ago) link

dylan: no
dylan's lyrics: OH GOD YES!! A THOUSAND TIMES YES!!!!

Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 17:41 (fifteen years ago) link

I tried to give ol' Bobby D. another chance yesterday and listened to Dilate, which was highly recommended. Booooooring.

nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 17:43 (fifteen years ago) link

there'll be puke by sundown

nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 17:43 (fifteen years ago) link

No he aint. However some people analyze some portions of his ouevre too much. I don't think there's any point close reading the lyric of 'I'll Be Your Baby Tonight'. Possibly Bob sometimes wishes his songs were enjoyed in the same way people enjoyed the big country hits that used to fill up the Billboard charts in the 50s and 60s.

pete s, Tuesday, 17 February 2004 17:46 (fifteen years ago) link

If anything, most of his '70s stuff is underappreciated.

morris pavilion (samjeff), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 17:55 (fifteen years ago) link

Yes.

mei (mei), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 18:04 (fifteen years ago) link

I think of it more like framing a guy who's actually guilty. He really (really really) is great, but 95 percent of everything you read praising him gets the essence of why he's great wrong. Classic blind men/elephant scenario: You can describe the words, the music, the jokes, the viciousness, the blues and country and gospel and rock, you can even try to describe the voice although almost nobody ever gets that right...but trying to add it all up is a fool's game. It's like complexity theory, where once reach a certain density of interconnectivity, with information flowing in multiple, almost untrackable directions simultaneously, you get emergence: new things arise from the system that couldn't be predicted from any single element of the system. Dylan's like a whole complex system all unto himself.

spittle (spittle), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 18:09 (fifteen years ago) link

spittle just proved it

My Huckleberry Friend (Horace Mann), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 18:11 (fifteen years ago) link

I've been listening to the Dylan/Band basement tapes recently, and it's just quality "rock," loose and fun... I don't really listen to lyrics anyway.

andy, Tuesday, 17 February 2004 18:17 (fifteen years ago) link

When's that Todd Haynes movie come out?

morris pavilion (samjeff), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 18:17 (fifteen years ago) link

I like the song he did for Wonder Boys, what's it called, "Things Have Changed." I like that one pretty good.

My Huckleberry Friend (Horace Mann), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 18:21 (fifteen years ago) link

I liked when he did it at the Oscars except he wasn't really there, he was in Australia or something and he played live on the huge Oscar screen, and when they did closeups it was like the giant Bob head coming to visit the little people of Hollywood. With a riverboat gambler mustache.

spittle (spittle), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 18:24 (fifteen years ago) link

Actually, after thinking for a minute, I think the problem is that all the embarrassing, chin-stroking praise and analysis heaped upon '60s Dylan (and especially his "poetic" lyrics, blah blah) by olde-tyme critics (Dave Marsh et. al.) makes for an overrated air, and makes it understandable that people have a hard time just digging Dylan's rockin' music, as Andy suggests.

I bet if people (rock 'n' roll fans) heard "Planet Waves" with no preconceptions about **DYLAN,** most of them would have to love it!!

morris pavilion (samjeff), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 18:24 (fifteen years ago) link

I can certainly understand people being turned off to the whole Dylan thing, due to the overbaked Boomer mythos. (But they shouldn't be!)

morris pavilion (samjeff), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 18:25 (fifteen years ago) link

Actually if you listen to "The Times They Are A-Changin'" back to back with "Things Have Changed," you learn a lot about the difference between being 22 years old and 60 years old.

mr. man, Tuesday, 17 February 2004 18:26 (fifteen years ago) link

well you can't overrate his influence, which is staggeringly huge.
maybe he's the joyce of rock?

pete s, Tuesday, 17 February 2004 18:26 (fifteen years ago) link

62-69 -- no
70 on -- a rollercoast that sometimes dips so deep into the sewers you think it will never come back up again.

jack cole (jackcole), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 18:27 (fifteen years ago) link

for some reason, when I was in my early 20s (as I was in 2000 when I listened to "Things Have Changed") I was really into songs about being over the hill or whatever. Personal apocalypses. Now I'm into songs about revenge.

My Huckleberry Friend (Horace Mann), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 18:28 (fifteen years ago) link

dylan's worst albums still aren't as bad as U2's worst albums, and dylan's discography is at least three times as large.

jody (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 18:29 (fifteen years ago) link

I guess I'd say if he's "overrated" it's in the way that great artists tend to be -- past a point, their "greatness" gets taken as a given and cited as such by people who would be hard-pressed to actually tell you what's great about it. (See: Picasso, Louis Armstrong, Orson Welles, etc. etc.)

spittle (spittle), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 18:31 (fifteen years ago) link

not that Dylan doesn't have his share of shitty songs though

My Huckleberry Friend (Horace Mann), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 18:31 (fifteen years ago) link

"Street Legal" is a great, underrated album. Total spiritual crisis album.

Mr. Man, Tuesday, 17 February 2004 18:32 (fifteen years ago) link

not that Dylan doesn't have his share of shitty songs though

anyone with a career like that surely has to phone it in sometimes.

jody (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 18:32 (fifteen years ago) link

I feel for the Edge there because having that fucking glare in your eye can't have made him happy.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 18:36 (fifteen years ago) link

nevermind that that twit Bono is always around him

My Huckleberry Friend (Horace Mann), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 18:37 (fifteen years ago) link

oh, but the edge had his revenge against the boner ... like, the boner directs him, "edge, play the blues!" and edge cuts in with a guitar solo that is so NOT the blues.

Eisbär (llamasfur), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 18:41 (fifteen years ago) link

It's always bugged me that there's an overwhelming consensus, not just commonly held opinion but something teetering perilously close to universal FACT, that certain Dylan albums are AWFUL AWFUL SHIT SHIT SHIT -- and it's a consensus that's built mostly on reputation, guesswork, fear of '80s production values, fear of the earnestness of someone wrestling with his spirituality. I wonder how many people who "hate" Knocked Out Loaded have heard it at all, or more than that one time 17 years ago or whatever.

jody (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 18:43 (fifteen years ago) link

my answer to this thread: no, he's not overrated. i don't especially LIKE much of his music or his musical legacy, but bob dylan isn't overrated.

Eisbär (llamasfur), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 18:44 (fifteen years ago) link

my Dad is a big Dylan fan and has most of the "good" stuff on vinyl, but had the "not-so-good" stuff on tape, so that's the Dylan I mostly listened to as a kid with my dorky walkman, and I sorta like it.

My Huckleberry Friend (Horace Mann), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 18:49 (fifteen years ago) link

Actually I think his legacy is underrated -- to this day I constantly hear little Dylanisms pop up all over the place (not just lyric steals but little melodic tendencies, phrasings, etc), and critics very seldom point these out, because they're too busy hearing the goddamn BEATLES in everything.

jody (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 18:50 (fifteen years ago) link

yes, isn't it interesting how critics and fans cream all over Bob Marley's spiritual quest (rightly so) yet shit all over Dylan's Christian conversion? Both were honest, both had a lot of intolerance built in (check out Rasta anti-semitism and major sexism), but they both informed some very passionate music.

Tab25, Tuesday, 17 February 2004 18:54 (fifteen years ago) link

I don't think Dylan is overrated in general. Though undoubtedly there are fans out there who overrate him. And I think he still tends to get off easy on certain things, since he's Dylan. For instance, his voice is really shot to hell these days, but that seldom gets more than a passing mention in his reviews. I'm one of the people who thinks that he used to have a great voice, but really, these days, it's so bad that it gets in the way. Especially when he still feels the need to write songs with like 20 verses.

o. nate (onate), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 19:05 (fifteen years ago) link

I never hear anyone even mention Dylan's '80s albums, except for people who are Dylan fans... it seems like most people's casual knowledge of Dylan stops around Desire. (Maybe picking up briefly again for Empire Burlesque/Infidels... then jump-starting again with Time Out of Mind.)

morris pavilion (samjeff), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 19:07 (fifteen years ago) link

I think his voice is better than ever. And I don't think his wicked guitar playing gets enough credit.
And he has nice eyes.

My Huckleberry Friend (Horace Mann), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 19:07 (fifteen years ago) link

x-post

Self-Portrait might be the most underrated album of all time.

And I agree with Tab. Dylan as fundamentalist spitfire preacher is definitely underrated. That phase of his might be the most dramatic remove from an established image anyone's ever accomplished. It's interesting how Neil Young did his schizo albums right after, which maybe's another example of Dylan's huge sway over everybody else.

otto, Tuesday, 17 February 2004 19:07 (fifteen years ago) link

I like his voice these days -- it has a lot of character. One of my pet peeves is people who hate Dylan's singing (full-stop), because there's so much going on in his voice, always.

jody (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 19:10 (fifteen years ago) link

I own some Bob Dylan stuff, I hardly ever listen to it, and if I never hear him again I'm not gonna get all weepy. However I don't think he's overrated.

Gear! (Gear!), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 19:13 (fifteen years ago) link

Character?! It sounds like his vocal cords have been through a cheese grater.

o. nate (onate), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 19:13 (fifteen years ago) link

a cheese grater from heaven!

My Huckleberry Friend (Horace Mann), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 19:15 (fifteen years ago) link

It sounds like his vocal cords have been through a cheese grater.

This is bad why?

jody (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 19:16 (fifteen years ago) link

I'm sorta annoyed with the valuing of his voice as mystic signifier...but at base, I just don't like it.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 19:19 (fifteen years ago) link

I listen to Dylan more than i listen to the Beatles and i think i always will.

NOT overrated -- and go ahead and strike up another vote for Self Portrait.

christoff (christoff), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 19:33 (fifteen years ago) link

I think his voice is better than ever.

Yeah buddy. I've seen him several times over the past 17 years (first in '87, most recently in '02), and the most recent show was the best hands down. His singing was so sharp and (OK, in its own way) *rich*. But the "mystic signifier" thing is true, I guess, because I think loving Dylan's singing vs. appreciating him as a songwriter or "important influence" or whatever is kind of the dividing line on really digging him or not.

spittle (spittle), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 19:38 (fifteen years ago) link

mystic signifier

I wouldn't call it that. I just think his delivery is really funny! He has a great sense of comedic timing (even when he's being serious) and almost everything he sings is pregnant with some kind of... I don't wanna say "meaning," it's more like "presence of mind." Like you know he wrote the line to be sung a certain way and the fun of getting to sing it justifies the labor of writing it.

jody (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 19:41 (fifteen years ago) link

I think it was John Lennon who said you don't need to hear Dylan's words, just the way he sings them.

I mean, I'd put him with Sinatra and Ella and Billie and ... not many others, maybe Elvis? Bing? Howlin' Wolf? Hank Williams? ... as great American singers of the recorded era.

But then, that's the kind of statement that makes people say he's overrated. Can't win.

spittle (spittle), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 19:42 (fifteen years ago) link

Like you know he wrote the line to be sung a certain way and the fun of getting to sing it justifies the labor of writing it.

And this is important because so many "clever" singer-songwriters have no idea how to emote comedically and their jokes just don't translate well to being sung.

jody (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 19:47 (fifteen years ago) link

It's worth looking up, although I'm not gonna: The xp Chronicles description of how the Dead wanted to do some of his songs that he wasn't familiar with, and he became uneasy about the whole jamtastic road ahead, about his own abilities, so he went to a bar and drank until he remembered something Lonnie Johnson (blues guitarist who also performed with Bird and other jazz heavies on occasion) told him about guitar-playing, and he began to see how it could be adapted to his own material, and vice-versa, gradually---Dylan and the Dead is notoriously bad, but some of the show tapes are okay, and anyway it was more about a process he meant to stick with, one motivation for the Endless Tour.
Speaking of Lonnie Johnson, D covered his "Saturday NIght" on Good As I Been To You, some prev. unreleased tracks from which showed up on Tell-Tale Signs, and I'd like to hear 'em all on a new edition of Good... (didn't think it was as good as World Gone Wrong, but maybe it would be if complete).
UTRS was good, though could use a remaster, and bonus tracks prob (live versions at least). I always like Kenny Aronoff, however you describe his style (played with Mellencamp too, right? Seems like he would fit.)

dow, Wednesday, 17 October 2018 21:08 (one year ago) link

re: dylan and lonnie johnson, here's what Bob wrote:

"Popular music is usually based on the number 2... If you're using an odd numerical system, things that strengthen a performance begin to happen...In a diatonic scale there are eight notes. In a pentatonic scale there are five. If you're using the first scale and you hit 2, 5 and 7 to the phrase and then repeat it, a melody forms. Or you can use the 4 once and the 7 twice... the possibilities are endless... I'm not a numerologist. I don't know why the number three is more metaphysically powerful than the number 2, but it is. Passion and enthusiasm, which sometimes can be enough to sway a crowd, aren't even necessary. You can manufacture faith out of nothing and there are infinite number of patterns and lines that connect from key to key."

Kinda think Bob is BS-ing here, but who knows, maybe it makes sense to him. I know that some of his 1990s lead guitar work is pretty uhhhh unique.

tylerw, Wednesday, 17 October 2018 21:32 (one year ago) link

Yeah I’ve always wanted a musician to explain what that stuff means (and how much sense it makes).

a neon light ablaze in this green smoky haze (morrisp), Wednesday, 17 October 2018 21:33 (one year ago) link

it doesn't make any sense, but it's pretty interesting nonetheless

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 17 October 2018 21:55 (one year ago) link

yeah it is! i think Dylan has always had weird systems that are probably incomprehensible to everyone but him ... cool to at least get a glimpse of how his weird mind works.

tylerw, Wednesday, 17 October 2018 22:06 (one year ago) link

kinda feel like he's trying to convey some kind of Coltrane-level musical system there but can't be bothered to use a nomenclature everyone else would use (like notes lol)

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 17 October 2018 22:11 (one year ago) link

I'd go so far as to argue that Dylan is deeply underrated as a composer of melodies but Coltrane he is not

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 17 October 2018 22:13 (one year ago) link

Oh wow, I forgot some of that (to maybe make more sense of it all, or at least get some intriguing sequences, see Part Four of Chronicles); He went to the bar, yes, but no Lonnie yet; instead, he sees "an old jazz singer" perform, reminding him somewhat of Billy Eckstein, and suddenly remembers a vocal techique---runs back to rehearsal, can't wait to tackle those old forgotten Dylan songs (and the ones he knew too well): At first it was hard going, like drilling through a brick wall. All I did was taste the dust. But miraculously something internal came unhinged. In the beginning all I could get out was a blood-choked coughing grunt and it blasted up from the bottom of my lower self, but it bypassed my brain. That had never happened before. It burned, but I was awake. The scheme wasn't sewed up too tight, but I grasped the idea. I was having to maneuver more than one stratagem at the same time, but now I knew I could perform any of these songs without them having to be restricted to the world of words. This was revelatory. I played those shows with the Dead and didn't have to think twice about it...
Then he plugs himself into the tour with Petty & the Heartbreakers, still no vocal probs, however, his pre-Dead sense of dead ending comes back:
Night after night it was like I was on cruise control...Petty was drawing most of the people...My performances were an act, and the rituals were boring me...Even at the Petty shows I'd see the people in the crowd and they'd look like cutouts from a shooting gallery...I was sailing along.
Then suddenly, one night in Locarno, Switzerland, at the Piazza Grande Locarno, it all fell apart. For an instant I fell into a black hole. The stage was outdoors and the wind was blowing gales. the kind of night that can blow anything away. I opened my mouth to sing and nothing came out...I thought I had it down so well, yet it was just another trick...
So, in front of thirty thousand people, with nothin' more to lose, I conjured up some different type of mechanism to jump-start the other techniques that weren't working...Everything came back, and it came back in multidimension. Even I was surprised. It left me kind of shaky...It was like I'd become an unknown one in the true sense of the term.
So hey, he starts digging the Petty shows, *really* sailing along. And then he breaks his arm, and then he knows, with no pleasure, that he'll have to go to work, and come up with another guitar style, to match up with the new vocal technique, "one that would go along with helping me re-create my songs":
I had always played in the casual Carter Family flat-picking style, and the playing was more or less out of habit and routine. It was always clear and readable but didn't reflect my psyche in any was. It didn't have to. The style had been practical, but now I was going to push that away from the table, too, and replace it with something more active with more definition of presence.
So then he starts remembering what Lonnie Johnson showed him:
...based on an odd not even numbering system...It's a highly controlled system of playing...how (the notes of a scale) form melodies out of triplets and are axiomatic to the rhythm and the chord changes..The method works on higher or lower degrees depending on different patterns and they syncopation of a piece. Very few would be converted to it because it had nothing to do with technique and musicians work their whole lives to be technically superior players. You probably wouldn't pay any attention to this method if you weren't a singer...The system works in a cyclical way...The total effect would be physiological, and triplet forms would fashion melodies at intervals. This is what would drive the song---not necessarily the lyric content...The opposite of improvisation...It doesn't run on emotion. That was another good thing. I had been leaving my songs on the floor like shot rabbits for a long time. That wouldn't be happening any more.

dow, Thursday, 18 October 2018 01:05 (one year ago) link

He fucked up his hand as well as his arm.

dow, Thursday, 18 October 2018 01:12 (one year ago) link

re: dylan and lonnie johnson, here's what Bob wrote:

"Popular music is usually based on the number 2... If you're using an odd numerical system, things that strengthen a performance begin to happen...In a diatonic scale there are eight notes. In a pentatonic scale there are five. If you're using the first scale and you hit 2, 5 and 7 to the phrase and then repeat it, a melody forms. Or you can use the 4 once and the 7 twice... the possibilities are endless... I'm not a numerologist. I don't know why the number three is more metaphysically powerful than the number 2, but it is. Passion and enthusiasm, which sometimes can be enough to sway a crowd, aren't even necessary. You can manufacture faith out of nothing and there are infinite number of patterns and lines that connect from key to key."

Kinda think Bob is BS-ing here, but who knows, maybe it makes sense to him. I know that some of his 1990s lead guitar work is pretty uhhhh unique.

― tylerw, 17. oktober 2018 23:32 (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Lol, isn't he talking about intervals and saying he's using fourths rather than thirds? But then saying that he is jumping three notes rather than two for numerological reasons, but... I think he is bullshitting, he knows what a third is. Right?

Frederik B, Thursday, 18 October 2018 08:39 (one year ago) link

if dylan had recorded utrs 10 years later with his love & theft-era touring band, it probably would be thought of as a minor late-period classic. the weak production / half-hearted performances don't do it any favors.

― tylerw, Wednesday, October 17, 2018 5:51 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is otm. "minor classic" is right because the lyrics are much weaker than Love & Theft, like "2 X 2" is a lazy turd that was originally (according to Heylin) a song about animals walking onto Noah's Arc, but became much dumber after rewriting. "Handy Dandy" has a nice groove but it's again a bunch of lazy rhymes without any story. I can see why he ended up playing ancient covers for the next half decade, to recover a better voice that we'd finally get in 2001.

droit au butt (Euler), Thursday, 18 October 2018 12:31 (one year ago) link

When I first read that section, the whole section, I speculated that whatever he was talking related to the way he was then (early 00s, also some show tapes from late '90s) playing, say, "Cold Irons Bound"---although when I had seem him in the early 90s, he was doing a lot of fancy folkie finger-picking, and high-pitched bluesy solos on not particularly bluesy songs---all good to great, in the context of a band show (with extended police siren steel guitar etc., also a roadrunner, nerve-testing "Watchtower" that eventually and instantly vanished into something else) but apparently taking his guitarisms further in a subsequent show my Omaha buddy caught, and reported, "Seems like he's been going back and studying what Bloomfield did on 'Tombstone Blues' and all that." Trying different things, not just following that one Path.
(Also in Part Four, he cites Link Wray's "Rumble" and a Martha Reeves performance he saw as exemplifying the "numbering system.")

dow, Friday, 19 October 2018 02:08 (one year ago) link

I often wonder what a mixing board soloing of Bob's live guitar would sound like, and I often think it would sound quite dreadful (or at least completely apart from what the rest of the band are doing)

https://youtu.be/B_nKf7BNqhA
^^this live @ the white house "times are a changing" is a lovely intimate version, but what is he doing on that acoustic guitar? half the time he's hardly playing

https://youtu.be/9hO-83CIVKM
^^this classic live-in-the-studio Cold Irons Bound has shredding galore, but Dylan's work is almost inaudible

and those are examples of, imo, great live takes more or less made for commercial redistribution - when you look at live videos from the neverending tour it gets even more mysterious

I tend to think of him mostly as a great singer/songwriter, his harmonica playing is much more distinctive than his guitar work (to my ears)

niels, Friday, 19 October 2018 06:20 (one year ago) link

https://youtu.be/9v6XdUA8SK8

He plays a short solo on that ^^ Grammys performance of Love Sick. Making similar patterns as on the intro etc to Cold Irons Bound above

Duke, Friday, 19 October 2018 10:54 (one year ago) link

I always thought he was using simple pentatonic scales

Duke, Friday, 19 October 2018 10:57 (one year ago) link

that's a decent solo, though it hardly leaves the impression that he's got everything under control

so weird to have that choir/crowd in the background doing nothing

niels, Friday, 19 October 2018 13:43 (one year ago) link

though it hardly leaves the impression that he's got everything under control

That's one of many reasons why it's such a brilliant solo. It's so intensely focused, and the focus is on, "How close to going-off-the-rails can I make this?"

When I saw him in '97, he took every solo of the night, and there were a lot of them. Every solo was this insane see-saw between no more than two notes. There might have been a third note in one of the solos, but I don't think so. I've never heard a guitarist play that way before or since. And his band (as in the "Love Sick" clip) drew inspiration from his guitar playing, ratcheting up the energy.

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Friday, 19 October 2018 14:15 (one year ago) link

Isn’t there some story of Ronnie Hawkins saying to him something like “I know a few hundred guitarists worse than you but none of them make a living at it”?

Harper Valley CTA-102 (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 19 October 2018 14:19 (one year ago) link

to some extent I buy that - something weirdly convincing often happens when he does whatever it is he does, kept me coming back to the live shows quite a few times, the uncertainty keeping everyone on edge, every once in a while delivering magic moments

niels, Friday, 19 October 2018 14:42 (one year ago) link

Isn’t there some story of Ronnie Hawkins saying to him something like “I know a few hundred guitarists worse than you but none of them make a living at it”?

― Harper Valley CTA-102 (James Redd and the Blecchs)

Also said about his piano playing, which I adore like an ugly child.

You like queer? I like queer. Still like queer. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 19 October 2018 14:45 (one year ago) link

anyway, Uncle Greil answered the question last week:

What Dylan has, as the late Ralph J. Gleason was probably the first to point out, is swing. He can move rhythm. He has country time. At his best he can’t be followed. As with his piano playing on “She’s Your Lover Now”—no actually existing piano player could, as the word serves, accompany his singing. It was him or no one. It’s the same with rhythm guitar playing—listen to the simple, but essential counting in “Like a Rolling Stone.” And then there’s his early 1990s shift–when he decided, in his fifties, to become a lead guitarist, and suddenly his songs, in terms of how long they went on, became two thirds instrumental, one third sung.

He is, at bottom, a folk singer, which means he does what’s necessary to find the song and seal it. Often that isn’t much. Often it’s just a little more than what the Blue Sky Boys do for “Down on the Banks of the Ohio” on guitar and mandolin. Isn’t it enough?

You like queer? I like queer. Still like queer. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 19 October 2018 14:52 (one year ago) link

eleven months pass...

new pearl jam drummer seems to be working wonders
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oehJDt5Uag

corrs unplugged, Tuesday, 15 October 2019 08:50 (four weeks ago) link

wow, that was taken down fast

anyway, search: Not Dark Yet, Irvine, California, oct 11 2019, Matt Chamberlain on drums

corrs unplugged, Wednesday, 16 October 2019 06:25 (three weeks ago) link

https://youtu.be/wU9cnKOXMv4 new upload

corrs unplugged, Wednesday, 16 October 2019 06:29 (three weeks ago) link

damn, that's spellbinding

an incoherent crustacean (MatthewK), Wednesday, 16 October 2019 07:10 (three weeks ago) link

Underrated

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 16 October 2019 15:21 (three weeks ago) link

his stuff in-between Desire and Time Out of Mind def. underrated

Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Wednesday, 16 October 2019 15:25 (three weeks ago) link

Matt Chamberlain on drums

― corrs unplugged, Tuesday, October 15, 2019 11:25 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

matt chamberlain or matt cameron? the latter is pearl jam's drummer, the former is tori amos' drummer (who filled in for cameron once with soundgarden)

american bradass (BradNelson), Wednesday, 16 October 2019 15:26 (three weeks ago) link

yeah not the pearl jam drummer. seeing bob tomorrow in Denver for the first time in a couple years. excited!

tylerw, Wednesday, 16 October 2019 15:34 (three weeks ago) link

i mean i'm still gassed that it's chamberlain, incredible drummer

american bradass (BradNelson), Wednesday, 16 October 2019 15:36 (three weeks ago) link

love the feeling of that "not dark yet"

american bradass (BradNelson), Wednesday, 16 October 2019 15:36 (three weeks ago) link

Chamberlain is great, he's played with everyone from Pearl Jam to Jon Brion.

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 16 October 2019 15:37 (three weeks ago) link

He's not on Ten, but I think he was an early touring drummer. He's in that live video for Even Flow, iirc. Or maybe Alive? Anyway, love him.

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 16 October 2019 15:39 (three weeks ago) link

you're right! quite a resume ... bill frisell, bowie, neko case, tori, fiona, broooooce ....

tylerw, Wednesday, 16 October 2019 15:42 (three weeks ago) link

haha wow talk about super session drummer

having both Perfume Genius and Eric Clapton on your resume

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 16 October 2019 15:52 (three weeks ago) link

wow this arrangement of not dark yet, so vibey and spacious

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 16 October 2019 16:12 (three weeks ago) link

pretty much a new song, haha

tylerw, Wednesday, 16 October 2019 16:16 (three weeks ago) link

going to see him next Thursday, even more excited now

always fun to have the oooooh shit that's (insert title here) at the 2 minute mark

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 16 October 2019 16:19 (three weeks ago) link

awesome, let us know if he does some cool versions!

there's a new guitar player on board too, guy from the TooM sessions

corrs unplugged, Thursday, 17 October 2019 08:22 (three weeks ago) link

matt chamberlain or matt cameron? the latter is pearl jam's drummer, the former is tori amos' drummer (who filled in for cameron once with soundgarden)

good thread idea: similarly named musicians who play the same instrument and are also connected in other ways

van dyke parks generator (anagram), Thursday, 17 October 2019 08:55 (three weeks ago) link

Is Bob playing guitar in that clip?

Οὖτις, Friday, 18 October 2019 02:50 (three weeks ago) link

show in denver last night was great! bob is looking incredibly spry -- maybe the most animated I've ever seen him, whether he was standing at the piano, pounding the keys, or prowling the stage. weirdly, the performer i thought of most was mark e smith, haha. "simple twist," "masterpiece," "not dark yet" and "girl from north country" were all highlights ...

https://scontent.fapa1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/72842292_2648404011905072_1224765703194673152_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_oc=AQm06c6AvfhcxwuTcuCPHifFrENw1Ijovh5BSMpgR5q7rcuaD0jwwu2YrTne3Jjg8xA&_nc_ht=scontent.fapa1-1.fna&oh=f8b9ca195e1ab750252c6d1c1b63e251&oe=5E2B2ADF

tylerw, Friday, 18 October 2019 16:20 (three weeks ago) link

I assume arthritis = no guitar playing, and it's been that way for awhile, yeah?

Οὖτις, Friday, 18 October 2019 16:23 (three weeks ago) link

he actually played guitar on the opener — "things have changed" — and pulled off some surprisingly solid lead lines. but that was it ... yeah, i don't know if it's arthritis, back problems, or just that he's not into it.

tylerw, Friday, 18 October 2019 16:26 (three weeks ago) link

how's the voice?

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 18 October 2019 16:35 (three weeks ago) link

really good! obviously still gravelly, but he's not barking things out — phrasing is dead on target.

tylerw, Friday, 18 October 2019 16:49 (three weeks ago) link

cool I was hoping the relative improvement from Tempest (which was really getting rough) to the standards records was reflected live?

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 18 October 2019 17:00 (three weeks ago) link

do you remember where you were when Bob Dylan didn't die
and everyone who ever listened learned he lived a lie
they had reflected on their mortality
apparently entirely needlessly
while his Cadillac cruised down the backroad not leading to the sky

del griffith, Friday, 18 October 2019 17:39 (three weeks ago) link

two weeks pass...

I was never the biggest dylan fan but I saw him this week partly out of "see this legend before it's too late" obligation despite not knowing much about his live shows. It was different/better than I expected and holy shit is Matt Chamberlain fun to watch.

joygoat, Thursday, 7 November 2019 17:54 (five days ago) link

this tour has been really excellent

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 7 November 2019 18:15 (five days ago) link


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