Jazz Vocalists - CD/SD

I've this compilation of Rodgers & Hart songs that I only listened to once or twice because half the vocalists are so damned mannered & stiff. Peggy Lee, Mel Torme, Louis Prima. (They're not jazz, though, are they? I'll hush up.) (Is the Velvet Fog a jazz vocalist?) (Is Sinatra? I always get irked when people gush about Sinatra's voice and his panache and his swingin' thing, like he's so cool & beyond reproach.)

Josh: The seperate but equal idea is interesting. Certainly the world of Billie Holliday or Ella Fitzgerald seems very removed from the world of contemporary instrumental jazz (in my very patchy and no doubt laughable inaccurate view).

But Louis Armstrong, I find it very hard to take him seriously as a vocalist. In any sense.

Odd that, by way of example, you picked just about the only jazz singers -- along with Johnny Hartman, maybe, and one or two others -- that I actually like.

A lot of vocal jazz is crap -- it combines the worst aspects of jazz (sterility, necrophilia, stagnation) and pop (endless posturing and the fetishization of ignorance and incompetence) -- but that's largely due to the fact that most jazz vocalists themselves are crap. As a jazz instrumentalist, the most tedious thing in the world is to see a countless procession of jazz vocalists who:

-- can't read music,

-- can't sing in tune,

-- don't know the songs or the chords,

-- don't have anything interesting to say,

-- and think they're hot shit.

Also, vocal jazz is generally extremely conservative, and it's no coincidence that it's also where a lot of the money is. Many great instrumentalists, yearning for the chance to produce original and creative music, have ended up as members of the backing bands for singers, performing tired chestnuts (and never too loud!) to crowds of smug, self-satisfied upper-class snobs.

Finally, scat solos. "Skiddle-dee-bop-a-shoo-ba-loo-ba-woogle-woogle." There are about nine people, give or take, who can pull them off; everyone else sounds ridiculous at best.

The contempt of jazz instrumentalists for jazz vocalists is legendary, and usually well-earned. It's hard to blame them for it, but it's unfortunate when that contempt is turned on that 5% of jazz singers who actually do work hard and make an effort to learn about the music, rather than relying on their voice and, most often, looks.

All that being said, albums like Hartman and Coltrane (or was it the other way round?) are classic, and prove that vocal jazz can be a thing of beauty and wit. And even a notch or two below that, there's room for people like Louis Prima in the world, certainly. But below that, it's a mess -- especially after 1965 or so -- and it's certainly not jazz: just bad, moldy pop.

maybe jazz singing is not different form from popular music singing full stop? the obvious cut off point is that anti-technique never cuts it in jazz (not that it can be dileneated that simply), BUT dinah washington is one of the greatest singers of songs of any kind of all time. sure, she's a jazz singer in a sense (when she's singing in front of jass guys, huh), but most of all she's a singer (better than ella, better than billie, better than anyone - and, pinefox, once i thought ella was about as good as it got too, so check her out!).

june tyson is a great jazz singer (long long time sun ra associate). leon thomas is a jazz stylist out on his own (pharoah sanders' "the creator has a master plan" etc.). fontella bass was also in on some choice '60s stuff (art ensemble of chicago, *and* she had a chart hit with the chess records soul classic "rescue me").

That said, you should check out Kurt Elling. He's a young singer who's got incredible technique, a great band, cool arrangements, and most of all takes lots of risks. He's not afraid to start screaming like a tenor player in the middle of his solos.

I'd say 'The Messenger' is my favorite album of his.

Adherence to text = less freedom to improvise?

Why do I always get the impression that bands behind singers really are playing "behind" them? Diff. for instrumental soloists: either feels like everyone's playing at the same time (at different volumes maybe, but still), or the band is playing "beneath" soloist (better maybe: "around").

Vicar: for 'other' views on Burns' "Jazz", cf. thread on it.

If I was Nicky D or Josh K I would make those words blue. My editor tells me it's something to do with 'code'. Isn't it always?

As it is, you can probably find it either under S&D or in the New Answers section.

And I'd say that Billie Holiday's recs with Teddy Wilson are as jazz as jazz can be. Sublime.

Exception: Chet Baker. Dude!

Jazz singers = CLEO LAINE! Which is dud, dud, dud (though I have a soft spot for poor old Johnny). The only person who should be allowed to scat is Balloo the Bear.

And that's why I like them! Nat Cole! Dean Martin! Chet Baker! Ella! Important building blocks for pop-rock.

Nina Simone is brilliant, but I wouldn't call her a jazz singer. Just saw her in NYC, and seeing her again in Oakland, CA, btw.

Also, Josh, you're definitely right about the singer having a separate, elevated place in the group. Maybe it's partly due to the fact that the unamplified voice is quieter than horns and drums at comparable dynamic levels, but I've had it drilled into me to respect and support the singer when there is one. There isn't the same sense of equality in interaction...there are exceptions of course (like when I saw Kurt Elling do 'Resolution' live last year, he was very much an equal part of the group).

However my selction would be Ella Fitzgerald, Sarah Vaughn, Anita O'Day, Nina Simone, and early aretha franklin , pre queen of soul era, (imho the difinitive version of 'love for sale' is sung by her).

I can't think of anyone post 60s. There was no longer a need to use vocalists to make jazz pop by then so number of good vocal talents went elsewhere, see aretha switching to soul on moving labels and belting out soul classics. i can't think of any current jazz singers, except one i saw sing with herbie hancock who was just plain dull. then again with a few notable exceptions i can't think of many people currently pushing back the boundaries of jazz, or eving playing well in an old style, with a few notable exceptions of course.

That's awfully "Ken Burns' Jazz", don't you think? Not to mention that I don't agree. Trying to create some sort of hierarchy of musical greatness or importance isn't particularly productive -- there are too many apples and oranges, for starters.

And even if the hierarchy were valuable, I probably wouldn't put Armstrong at the top, great as he was. If it had to be a jazz musician, I'd probably pick Miles Davis. But that's more a matter of opinion.

I stand by my statement. Awfully "Ken Burns"? You think Ken Burns was the first person to rank Louis Armstrong so highly? Saying Louis Armstrong is the most -- or at least one of the most -- musicians of the 20th century is so obvious it's almost redundant. Miles Davis? I love him, but by his own admission he wouldn't have had a career without Pops. Miles's influence was primarily on jazz only. while Armstrong's was on pop music in general. See the difference? And besides, we're talking about jazz SINGERS. Again, I challenge anyone who can find me a singer -- jazz or otherwise -- who has had such a dramatic impact on his art than Armstrong. No one knew HOW to sing pop music before his arrival.

this is a wild statement! care to expand upon this Phil?

does the description of pop here = jazzism?

My favorite jazz vocalist: Eddie Jefferson.

leon thomas is one of my favorites. all of his Flying Dutchman albums are great, as are everything he recorded with pharoah sanders. there are some dud songs (the bad calypso track) and the Full Circle album is kinda weak.

pharoh has a few albums w/vocals but w/o leon that are great "Village of the Pharoahs" with Seditarius Brown and "Wisdom Through Music". both beautiful Impulse albums

Max Roach has done wonderful things with vocals. his wife Abbey Lincoln sang on a few beautiful albums, "Freedom Now Suite" is wonderful. and he's done a bunch of stuff with jazz choruses. they're arranged so strangely. check out "It's Time" and "Lift Every Voice and Sing" (the second one is more gospel mixed with jazz).

Very similar to the Roach album "It's time" with weirdly arranged chorus is Bobby Hutcherson's "Now". one of my all time favorite albums. Eugene McDaniels is featured singer. the album almost sounds like a musical or something, but it's firmly rooted in a dark jazz sound.

another great jazz singer is Andy Bey. he's appeared on Roach's "Members, Don't Git Weary" and on solo albums.

Don Cherry sings occasionally, and his Codona (COllin walcott, DOn cherry, and NAna vasconcelos) albums are a wonderful mix of vocals, jazz and world music.

two more husband wife jazz player/singers are Michal Urbaniak and his wife Urszula Dudziak (fusion-y) and Doug Carn and his wife Jean (soulful, funky jazz)

and last but not least is Patty Waters who recorded an album for ESP on recomendation of Albert Ayler. the first half is smokey bar room ballads, and the second half is freaked out fucked up free jazz where her vocals compare to Yoko Ono and Linda Sharrock

What a voice.

Having recently gotten the reissue of Falling in Love is Wonderful from Rhino, all I can say is that the man is a national treasure.

Cecile got a MacArthur grant
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/06/arts/macarthur-genius-grant-winners-list.html

Wow.

Trying to work out what Abbey Lincoln I need to get after finding out there were reissues of the turn of teh 60s solo recordings.
Now finding ot that the early 70s People In Me was reissued in the 90s.
& know nothing about the later stuff.

JUst did know taht her stuff on Max Roach's lps was pretty amazing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF6q6XKKrik

Abbey Is Blue
You Gotta Pay the Band

the latter featuring lots of great original tunes of hers.

Bought a 2018 4 classic lps with the 4 lps from the turn of the 60s together. it skipped the very first lp which is apparently more orchestrated than the small group jazz lps featuring some interesting players.

so have Abbey IS Blue due in a week or so.

Will look at the You Gota Pay The Band set definitely.
Not sure why I didn't look into this ages ago cos I must have got teh set with the band playing Freedom Now Suite on European tv about 10 years ago. & had definitely rediscovered Driva Man a few years ago.

Painted Lady is great too

i've never heard a bad abbey lincoln album; her late era stuff is worth the trouble as well! i recall liking A Turtle's Dream from '95 and You Gotta Pay the Band from '91.
But of course Abbey is Blue and Freedom Now and We Insist and It's Time and anything she's ever done with Roach are all utterly essential.
Pleased that this thread alerted me to the spotify existence of a 100+ song collection of Abbey's work with Verve that came out in February

Get Straight Ahead ASAP!!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B60tL9LdnbM

It's in that 4 lps on 2cd set
alongside Abbey Is Blue, It's Magic and That's Him.
Cheap set but I think it's also what I have the Max roach material with her on in.

Have heard People in Me referred to as Spiritual Jazz which I'm not sure fits but would have made sense of where i thought she would be at in the early 70s after doing a lot of activism and stuff. Read a story about her travelling with Miriam Makeba in the early 70s after splitting up with Roach and having a breakdown and things. Interesting artist.

she died right before i had a chance to see her do a full live show, real regret.

This is not her jazziest moment, but I don't know where else to put this since there's no Rosemary Clooney thread. It's a video I've wondered about for decades - where I saw it, what the hell it was, etc. Rosemary Clooney lip-syncing "Come On-a My House" at a new wave party. From a Steve Martin comedy-variety special called Twilight Theater that was broadcast once or twice in 1982 in the SNL time slot. She comes in just after the 2 minute mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4x8Uxmc9AOE

Love Rosemary Clooney. Her jazziest moment was with Duke and especially Billy Strayhorn along with some "Giant Step" changes avant la lettre!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KO6dX15GmpM

that clooney freakout disco is really something.

nice, ^ that is great xp

(“blue rose”)

lol at this album cover:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/c4/Roseriddle.jpg/220px-Roseriddle.jpg

Some kind of weird Twin Peaks tie-in I can't parse.
https://chrystabell.com/the-significance-of-the-blue-rose/

This reminds me that I found myself in the odd position of defending Mitch Miller recently.

I guess one could argue Mitch Miller was one of the earliest producers to work through a modern kind of mindset, similar to the way contemporary hitmakers work

Yes, that is what I argued,or rather I borrowed the arguments of others. He also broke the color line by hiring Leslie Uggams.

And maybe that explains why "Come On-a My House" does sort of work as a new wave tune, whereas a Nelson Riddle arrangement would not

Think there is a whole chapter or at least a section on him in Susan Schmidt Horning's Chasing Sound.

I just got a copy of this, it’s super awesome:

https://img.discogs.com/3CMUYQZZAEJTsZPAT3sTePwmMu8=/fit-in/600x597/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-4385407-1573333696-6819.jpeg.jpg

Pony Poindexter = Cannonball Adderly (name changed cuz he was under contract for another label at the time).

fantastic name he used there

some top class scatting as well.

Also of much related interest, covering a lot of ground: RFI: Vocal jazz songform

Oh yeah, and this is cool---can imagiene it as basis of a movie---from the teeming trove of Night Lights archives---stream, download:
https://indianapublicmedia.org/wpimages/nightlights/2011/01/Dick-and-Kiz-Harp.jpg

Dick and Kiz Harp were a husband-and-wife, piano-and-vocals duo who ran their own nightclub (converted from a warehouse and called "The 90th Floor," after a lesser-known Cole Porter song they performed) in Dallas, Texas at the end of the 1950s. They‘ve developed a cult following among jazz-vocal aficionados on the basis of two obscure LPs. The Harps, influenced by artists such as Sylvia Sims, Anita O‘Day, and Dick Marx‘s Chicago trio, came up with their own sound--a blend of cabaret, torch song, and Midwestern camp--riding strongly on Kiz Harp‘s magnetic stage presence and slightly hoarse, soulful voice (a listener described her as "Jeri Southern smoking two packs a day"). Their career ended suddenly and tragically in 1960. We‘ll hear music from both of their albums (available again at 90th Floor Records) and we‘ll talk with Bruce Collier, the founder and owner of 90th Floor Records, who recorded both Harp LPs.

https://indianapublicmedia.org/nightlights/dick-and-kiz-harp-down-at-the-90th-floor.php

This young singer I saw in the Birdland Theater last night is pretty amazing, she’s like the second coming of Anita O’Day or something.

Name, please?

Anaïs Reno

My friend thought she sounded a little too studied in a video I sent him. I know where he is coming from but she has time to develop, she just turned nineteen, and she sounded great last night.

Will check her out, thx

Enjoyed a randomly purchased compilation of Sarah Vaughan over the last week . Great voice melismatic and all like that so I think I need to know more about her. This was a set of material from mid 50s to early 60s called Her Finest Hour. Pretty divine

Steveolende, check out Live at Mister Kelly's.

Dan, check out her Ellington & Strayhorn album, Lovesome Thing.

Or the new album, which is here:
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kDZ_ZYYbOm_iEJGrOinviQN3qCOQUyh28

First song here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cL20ZIlqJ54

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaH3wuAUGs0

live at mister Kelley’s is so damn good, there was something in the air that night

^maybe too inside baseball and not great sound but still, some sort of slice of history. (xp)

And yes, that album is special

Enji is a Mongolian jazz vocalist singer who sounds as if she has listened to some classic Brazilian music

She’s gotten some luv from Bandcamp daily and Chr&s R@chards at Washington Post

Thanks!

A little more hype for a recent fave, as posted on the swinging moldy figs thread:

Best jazz vocal I've heard in a while---lots of folks have the chops and spirit, but there's a world in here, for now:
Kate Kortum - Dreamsville

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btQNuSQZxWM

Anita O'Day, "Early Autumn"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zf5DThAr-_A

Grammys nominees for Feb 2024 awards

30. Best Jazz Vocal Album

For albums containing greater than 75% playing time of new vocal jazz recordings.

For Ella 2
Patti Austin Featuring Gordon Goodwin's Big Phat Band

Alive At The Village Vanguard
Fred Hersch & Esperanza Spalding

Lean In
Gretchen Parlato & Lionel Loueke

Mélusine
Cécile McLorin Salvant

How Love Begins
Nicole Zuraitis

Last night I was livestreaming the St. Peter’s tribute to drummer Jackie Williams who passed away recently and saw a vocalist performing I think I should be paying more attention to.

Also wow that Nicole Zuraitis got a Grammy nomination. She always seems really nice when I’ve crossed her path but I haven’t listened to any of her recordings.

Sonica, that is the project I have seen her in, with Thana Alexa and Julia Adamy.

From 2011, but just recently heard for first time: a really distinctive presentation of "Weightless," title track of album by the Becca Stevens Band (she's recently done something w Jacob Collier):
https://beccastevensband.bandcamp.com/album/weightless

a video, even:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qk_qfA9YIxg

Singer I was talking about was Marty Elkins.

X post - Have not heard Nicole Zuraitis , Grammy nominee, yet either