'if Odelay sucked...' How Alt-Rock Dealt With Beck In The '90s

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From: top 50 "lost" US hits of the early '00s

XPS The Smash Mouth one basically a downcast rewrite of "Walking On The Sun".

I always thought it sounded like "if Odelay sucked."

― billstevejim, Wednesday, January 18, 2023 11:48 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

Like I can imagine Beck singing "When the Morning Comes" pretty easily.

― billstevejim, Wednesday, January 18, 2023 11:49 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

Probably why "Walking..." became so successful in the first place was that it was 'Odelay As Bubblegum'.

― an icon of a worried-looking, long-haired, bespectacled man (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, January 19, 2023 12:42 AM (forty-six minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

One of those weird '90s interzones nobody talks much about anymore is Beck (and specifically Odelay)'s immediate influence on mid/late '90s Alt-Rock. Here we discuss and share examples of artists trying to make it with retro instrumentation, kitschy samples, non sequitur lyrics, and rapping it all up with some lite Hip Hop style.

Is the place to discuss the “Odelay” —> Eels —> Shawn Mullins ‘Lullabye’ pipeline?

Tim F, Thursday, 19 January 2023 08:24 (two weeks ago) link

Odelay's immediate influence was huge but I think a lot of what you attribute to that is crediting the album for the environment it was part of to an extent and that contributed to its popularity. Ironized retro-kitsch was everywhere, from Freshjive t-shirts to Spümcø cartoons. You could maybe say Odelay popularized the collage thing of mixing sounds from wildly different sources, mismatched reverbs etc, and like Sugar Ray were copying Beck. That's kind of frustrating for me to think about. The influence I see is what the Dust Brothers described in a Sound On Sound interview

"Beck really understood the benefits of sampling from the beginning, and he understood all along what our goal was. It's a different mindset for a musician, and Beck really got that. He's totally uninhibited, and not necessarily trying to play it right. He's just trying to play it with attitude and flavour. That makes it easy for us, and it's why we have had such great success in working with him. He really understands the medium and what we do, and hand-delivers us these great out-of-control performances that leave us with tracks that we can draw all these great loops from."

The field divisions are fastened with felicitations. (Deflatormouse), Thursday, 19 January 2023 09:15 (two weeks ago) link

I've watched live Beck stuff from that year and thought he was trying to copy Jon Spencer but the key thing is how they harnessed those out of control performances and incorporated them as collage elements.

The field divisions are fastened with felicitations. (Deflatormouse), Thursday, 19 January 2023 09:28 (two weeks ago) link

question is does anyone like any of this stuff that wasn't by beck

the vibe ends up completely different when you replace beck's detached cool/occasional weird intensity with the frat-boyisms that made up most of this stuff

ufo, Thursday, 19 January 2023 09:44 (two weeks ago) link

The saddest case for me in terms of tumbling from great heights to scour the gutter for nickels was the Butthole Surfers’ “Pepper,” which was such a blatant Beck imitation I remember kinda hoping they were parodying him.

but also fuck you (unperson), Thursday, 19 January 2023 12:12 (two weeks ago) link

This period of music and Beck's anointment as the new Dylan by critics is one of the first things I think of when I see one of those "what is something someone younger than you has no idea about" prompts on social media.

Chris L, Thursday, 19 January 2023 13:16 (two weeks ago) link

I think the Beastie Boys post Check Your Head (and Paul's Boutique really) created the musical/cultural environment we're talking about way more than Beck did

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 19 January 2023 13:42 (two weeks ago) link

Beck was definitely channeling something that was in the air already, but he was distinct enough to make it his own. I still hear hints of Beck coming through in things now. Alex G owes him a beer or two.

Position Position, Thursday, 19 January 2023 13:56 (two weeks ago) link

I think the Beastie Boys post Check Your Head (and Paul's Boutique really) created the musical/cultural environment we're talking about way more than Beck did

― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown)

Good point.

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 19 January 2023 14:02 (two weeks ago) link

xxp there was a strain of artists I feel were more specifically influenced by Beck though, like Cornershop's "When I Was Born for the Seventh Time" album.

Chris L, Thursday, 19 January 2023 14:03 (two weeks ago) link

Maybe the Beastie Boys created the atmosphere but most of the white artists who actually tried to emulate them came off as rap-rock clowns. Beck showed them how to alter the formula so they at least didn't turn themselves into the Fun-Lovin' Criminals.

Chris L, Thursday, 19 January 2023 14:21 (two weeks ago) link

Well, this thread isn't just about who did it successfully, no?

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 19 January 2023 14:23 (two weeks ago) link

No, my point was just that Beck opened the door to more imitators.

Chris L, Thursday, 19 January 2023 14:24 (two weeks ago) link

what's funny is I dug Odelay back in the day but it sounds so unfresh and dumb* to me now, not like those Beastie Boys records.

*not ragging on anyone who still digs this stuff, that's cool

a (waterface), Thursday, 19 January 2023 14:25 (two weeks ago) link

I did a jukebox jury with the Buttholes in 96, right as "pepper" was impacting and in about as informal and relaxed context as you could want for something like that: not so informal and relaxed that they were getting fucked up, but they were listening to what I was playing fairly intently and responding in the moment…and so when Gibby when exposed to some Portastatic recording said things like "it's not enough like Beck," only for a moment did I think he was goofing around, he was absolutely under Becks' spell… and while I don't blame anyone for thinking that "pepper" sucks shit, one thing you cannot say about that song is that the lyrics are non sequitorial: it was also clear to me from his demeanor that he was in recovery and those words in the song are deadly serious and could not mean more to him at the time and most likely in the time since…

They didn't like "You're making me high" by Toni Braxton…and they didn't like the alt country music Amy Allison, daughter of Mose, was doing at the time…

veronica moser, Thursday, 19 January 2023 14:26 (two weeks ago) link

Side note but I still recall watching Gibby Haynes as a guest on Politically Incorrect (because I watched too much cable as a teen) glibly laughing about the death of Tupac.

Chris L, Thursday, 19 January 2023 14:29 (two weeks ago) link

Bowie said a couple of bitchy things in '97 when his mentioning the Legendary Stardust Cowboy inspired the interlocutor to compare him to Beck. "Well, Beck's just quirky, he's not particularly original."

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 19 January 2023 14:32 (two weeks ago) link

There were 2 years when lots of lead singers wore sideburns and a button down with an oversized collar. Sometimes bowling shirts.

My thing I said about Smash Mouth primarily considered their Beck influenced vocal melodies. But yea the production of all their hits and their aesthetic also descend from Beck. They also had that ska cover of "Why Can't We Be Friends" that does not sound at all like anything Beck ever did.

billstevejim, Thursday, 19 January 2023 14:33 (two weeks ago) link

Drinking in LA came straight to mind and I think it's better than any Beck song.

Pepper came straight to mind too and I think there's quite a lot of better Beck songs (but few of them were radio hits).

you can see me from westbury white horse, Thursday, 19 January 2023 14:51 (two weeks ago) link

I tend to associate that Smash Mouth song a lot more with the sound of Edwyn Collins' a Girl Like You, than anything by Beck.

MarkoP, Thursday, 19 January 2023 14:53 (two weeks ago) link

Odelay being the runaway critics' hit for album of the year 1996 is one of those gulfs between then and now I can never quite mentally reconcile.

you can see me from westbury white horse, Thursday, 19 January 2023 14:56 (two weeks ago) link

i still love the first soul coughing record if thats part of all of this, i know its from before odelay though

ciderpress, Thursday, 19 January 2023 14:57 (two weeks ago) link

I also assume that Odelay's success with the critics also led to things like MMMBop being hailed as the best song of 1997 on the Pazz and Jop poll.

MarkoP, Thursday, 19 January 2023 14:58 (two weeks ago) link

Anyways this is where I post my Spirit of 96 Playlist again that has a lot of overlap with what we're talking about, which I had also posted in the 'Drinking In L.A. * Steal My Sunshine * In The Meantime * Get What You Give * Novocaine For The Soul' thread:

https://open.spotify.com/playlist/29OSMeThq1N86C0P7cBSxi?si=f03b88d6d06f4d07

MarkoP, Thursday, 19 January 2023 14:58 (two weeks ago) link

I also assume that Odelay's success with the critics also led to things like MMMBop being hailed as the best song of 1997 on the Pazz and Jop poll.

― MarkoP,

I would not assume so.

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 19 January 2023 14:59 (two weeks ago) link

Also this piece of CanCon came to mind, but it's more like "What if Midnite Vultures sucked":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nr4ROmCH9tY

MarkoP, Thursday, 19 January 2023 15:02 (two weeks ago) link

Something good was in the critical air in 1998 that I regret has also gone now. The Rockafeller Skank topping Pazz & Jop, Hello Nasty in everyone's top 10 albums etc.

i still love the first soul coughing record if thats part of all of this, i know its from before odelay though

is the Tchad Blake influence on alt-rock something else to separately consider?

you can see me from westbury white horse, Thursday, 19 January 2023 15:05 (two weeks ago) link

I also assume that Odelay's success with the critics also led to things like MMMBop being hailed as the best song of 1997 on the Pazz and Jop poll.

― MarkoP,

I would not assume so.

it was in fact produced by the Dust Brothers, so there’s a clear link at least

the shaker intro bit the shaker outro in the tail, hard (breastcrawl), Thursday, 19 January 2023 15:05 (two weeks ago) link

Side note but I still recall watching Gibby Haynes as a guest on Politically Incorrect (because I watched too much cable as a teen) glibly laughing about the death of Tupac.

― Chris L, Thursday, January 19, 2023 8:29 AM (thirty-five minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

gibby is a total piece of shit

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 19 January 2023 15:06 (two weeks ago) link

Odelay being the runaway critics' hit for album of the year 1996 is one of those gulfs between then and now I can never quite mentally reconcile.

― you can see me from westbury white horse, Thursday, January 19, 2023 9:56 AM (twelve minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

it was a good drum break, indeed

sault bae (voodoo chili), Thursday, 19 January 2023 15:10 (two weeks ago) link

xxp there was a strain of artists I feel were more specifically influenced by Beck though, like Cornershop's "When I Was Born for the Seventh Time" album.

― Chris L, Thursday, January 19, 2023 8:03 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

Cornershop had been around since before Beck though, i think they are much more of an outgrowth of UK post baggy stuff

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 19 January 2023 15:10 (two weeks ago) link

pre-odelay, post-mellow gold, so i think it fits in the "post-beck" mode

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYerwwTV5qc

sault bae (voodoo chili), Thursday, 19 January 2023 15:11 (two weeks ago) link

xxp there was a strain of artists I feel were more specifically influenced by Beck though, like Cornershop's "When I Was Born for the Seventh Time" album.

― Chris L, Thursday, January 19, 2023 8:03 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

Cornershop had been around since before Beck though, i think they are much more of an outgrowth of UK post baggy stuff

On a not dissimilar note I've seen Tequila (Mint Roayle Shot) referred to as Beck-ish before. Which I don't see at all - that party kitschy big beat pop was just more or less what Mint Royale did (at at least at the time).

Again, Space weren't Odelay-inspired at all but I'm curious if anyone in the US took to modest alt radio hit Female of the Species in that way?

you can see me from westbury white horse, Thursday, 19 January 2023 15:18 (two weeks ago) link

From Eric Harvey's retrospective review of Stereolab's Dots and Loops:

Let’s call the most adventurous, sample-driven and style-copping music of this period “recombinant pop.” Around the world, musicians who came of age during the 1980s were digging through an ever-increasing archive and using digital software to redefine alternative music through the looped, sampled, and collaged productions of hip-hop and electronic music. Per an influential sociological study published in late 1996, “omnivorous inclusion,” had emerged as the defining characteristic for highbrow music nerds, a position, the researchers concluded, that was “better adapted to an increasingly global world managed by those who (show) respect for the cultural expressions of others.” Gone was rock’s romantic authenticity, drawn from the soul of the poet. “It was not so hard to accept the ersatz as ultimate authenticity,” cultural critic Geoffrey O’Brien argued in an examination of Burt Bacharach’s sudden return to fashion at this moment. “The point is not roots but connections, the more far-fetched the better.” ⁠A January 1998 SPIN feature on so-called “Sound Boys” argued similarly that “song-based rock music has ceded cutting-edge status to pure sonic exotica.” The rock and pop world had finally met Stereolab on its terms.

1996 and 1997 were a tipping point for recombinant pop. Penultimate Dots and Loops track “Ticker-Tape of the Unconscious” opens with a sample from Gal Costa’s Tropicalia gem “Divino, Maravilhoso,” and its brisk, undulating rhythm track sounds a bit like Timbaland or the Neptunes trying their hand at lounge jazz. Along with Emperor, those two years were heady: Beck’s Odelay, Cornershop’s When I Was Born for the 7th Time, Cibo Matto’s Viva! La Woman, DJ Shadow’s Endtroducing....., Fat Boy Slim’s Better Living Through Chemistry and Daft Punk’s Homework each created era-defining beat music that sampled broadly from global sources. The Beastie Boys’ Grand Royal label released the throwback roller-rink funk of Luscious Jackson, while Matador was handling stateside releases of Tokyo lounge-pop weirdos Pizzicato Five and Cornelius’ Fantasma, the peak of Keigo Oyamada’s dense, sample-laden Cornelius project.

jaymc, Thursday, 19 January 2023 15:20 (two weeks ago) link

Agree with everyone saying that, as big as Odelay was, a lot of this stuff was also "in the air" generally at that point. On a nostalgia kick recently, I listened to every song that was on the Billboard alt-rock charts in 1996, and there's just a ton of alt-rockers playing with sampled drum loops on it.

intheblanks, Thursday, 19 January 2023 15:26 (two weeks ago) link

Again, Space weren't Odelay-inspired at all but I'm curious if anyone in the US took to modest alt radio hit Female of the Species in that way?

I was actually just thinking of that one. I often have trouble remembering what it sounds like and instead "Deadweight" or "Readymade" will come to mind.

billstevejim, Thursday, 19 January 2023 15:26 (two weeks ago) link

Odelay broke recombinant pop the way Nevermind broke punk

Motion to adjourn to enjoy a footling (President Keyes), Thursday, 19 January 2023 15:27 (two weeks ago) link

lol very witty

yeah, Female of the Species was a little blip in the US. It was obviously much bigger in the UK, and tied in with that whole Scott Walker revival that was never a thing in America. But it did get some airplay and MTV used it as ident music i think.

Agree with everyone saying that, as big as Odelay was, a lot of this stuff was also "in the air" generally at that point.

Relieved, tbh. The thread premise annoys me.

The field divisions are fastened with felicitations. (Deflatormouse), Thursday, 19 January 2023 15:53 (two weeks ago) link

agree with everyone saying this strain of stuff was in the air at the time and def don’t want to give beck credit for popularizing it. i’d say he rode the wave, esp since he’d already gotten famous from “mellow gold” and this sort of retro-kitsch sampleadelia wasn’t a huge part of that (though i definitely recall my high school self thinking that “beercan” was kinda like b-52s BUT COOL)

question is does anyone like any of this stuff that wasn't by beck

― ufo, Thursday, January 19, 2023

since nobody’s said the word yet, i just think of odelay as a type of fun trip hop, like the other artists in jaymc’s post (well maybe not stereolab), and not particularly related to smash mouth etc (aside from chunk of fanbase)

waterface’s post resonates with me too. this is like his least cool album, in retrospect

the late great, Thursday, 19 January 2023 15:57 (two weeks ago) link

But if the stuff was in the air and Beck earned a double platinum out of it, then he popularized it, therefore he deserves credit. I'm not following you?

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 19 January 2023 16:00 (two weeks ago) link

*double platinum album

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 19 January 2023 16:00 (two weeks ago) link

this was also Prince Paul/Paul's Boutique influence seeping into Alt-Rock

Motion to adjourn to enjoy a footling (President Keyes), Thursday, 19 January 2023 16:01 (two weeks ago) link

Odelay as Bubblegum, from the original post, resonates

a (waterface), Thursday, 19 January 2023 16:06 (two weeks ago) link

like if Odelay were somehow dumber and less trip hoppy

a (waterface), Thursday, 19 January 2023 16:06 (two weeks ago) link

xxp there was a strain of artists I feel were more specifically influenced by Beck though, like Cornershop's "When I Was Born for the Seventh Time" album.

― Chris L, Thursday, January 19, 2023 8:03 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

Cornershop had been around since before Beck though, i think they are much more of an outgrowth of UK post baggy stuff

I had owned their previous album and thought they really leaned into Beck-like sampling and songwriting on this one, but this is fair. I think critics definitely picked up on this album trying to find the next Odelay though.

Chris L, Thursday, 19 January 2023 16:15 (two weeks ago) link

I think critics definitely picked up on this album trying to find the next Odelay though.

Oooh that's an interesting thread in itself.

you can see me from westbury white horse, Thursday, 19 January 2023 16:18 (two weeks ago) link

Feel like the Beta Band were the most blatant post-Beck Brit band, but also stirred in enough to make it their own.

Position Position, Thursday, 19 January 2023 16:18 (two weeks ago) link

Dan the Automator worked on that Cornershop album though, so it does seem weird to me give Beck the credit, rather than sample-heavy hip hop in general (or "Prince Paul/Paul's Boutique influence" as President Keyes said)

rob, Thursday, 19 January 2023 16:21 (two weeks ago) link

I was into a lot of this music at the time, a continuum from Portishead to Soul Coughing to Pizzicato 5, but somehow Odelay left me cold. I found the stream of consciousness rando lyrics too wacky.("Love machines on the sympathy crutches, discount orgies on the dropout buses...") I relistened the other day thanks to this thread and actually liked it better now than I did then.

Three Rings for the Elven Bishop (Dan Peterson), Friday, 27 January 2023 16:52 (one week ago) link

also: i've been struggling to make a post out of it, but there's a significant shift in Soul Coughing's sound between their 1994/1996 albums and 1998's El Oso, which if anything suggests a receding of the maximalist multi-color sampledelic tide, but maybe more trip-hop coming in. it's leaner, meaner, grimier, and lacks those sunny midtempo summer festival type songs.

but they're an odd duck for many reasons... Mark degli Antoni was really the sampler player as much as the keyboardist, alongside what was really a jazz rhythm section, so the way they used and deployed their (sometimes wacky) sample stuff kinda worked differently. to my ears, anyway.

got it in the blood, the kid's a pelican (Doctor Casino), Friday, 27 January 2023 16:56 (one week ago) link

the moment fgti identifies upthread, where Broken Phone Booth Man sings the sample line himself --- to my ears, his choice of how to convey sincerity and being down-hearted owes a lot more to "alternative" and "college rock" than to "grunge" or to slacker irony

Compare with "Dyin all Young." While Prophet doesn't sing the whole sampled line, he does repeat the last three words in his own voice, and I don't think it's that different in affect from Phone Booth Man.

is it milli vanilli or just a facsimile (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, 27 January 2023 16:57 (one week ago) link

It's interesting, I'm re-reading this thread and aside from "Pepper" I still don't hear much/any influence-of-Odelay on much other chart music (if anything) aside from, maybe, Dan The Automator productions

I'm trying to think of why this might be? Production-wise "Odelay" is straight-up cribbing from crate-digging beat assemblage methods and it is that Odelay seems more of a facsimile than an original in this regard. What did I listen to subsequent to Beck? Blue Break Beats compilations, and those weren't covering famous samples from Beck songs but samples from classic rap

I guess Odelay influenced JSBX's "Acme"! But not to especially terrific effect (tho I have a soft spot for it)

french testicle (flamboyant goon tie included), Friday, 27 January 2023 20:11 (one week ago) link

sleeve's post makes me want to start a thread called:

"My Girlfriend Lost Her Fucking Shoe! Tales of concert experiences from when you were young that felt life-changing at the time (and maybe they were)"

There is nothing like being up front at a wild show when you're 14, 15, 16, 17 ... if I could go back in time right now, I would.

alpine static, Friday, 27 January 2023 21:30 (one week ago) link

Adjacent to Beck and "Dyin' All Young" is "Block Rockin' Beats" with its Schooly D sample.

And to throw in (Odelay-style!) another angle: I remember reading an interview with Will Oldham around 1999 where he was asked about Beck, and was glad that he didn't have any songs that he had to play at shows the way Beck did. Lo-fi Beck and Oldham seem in a very similar early-90s place, branching off completely differently from there in ways beyond just the music.

The self-titled drags (Eazy), Friday, 27 January 2023 21:36 (one week ago) link

Alpine static, you should...I have some pretty hilarious stories, love to hear some others, obviously this is not the thread for it.

Picture of Chairman Mao (I M Losted), Friday, 27 January 2023 21:55 (one week ago) link

This style of music...I liked Beck better a few albums in, but the rest of this style...it looks like my sister and her friends' CD collection, and she is 8 years younger. With that in mind, I'd call it a hip-hop sensibility for people who used to be into hip-hop and Manchester dance before it all got messed up.

Picture of Chairman Mao (I M Losted), Friday, 27 January 2023 21:59 (one week ago) link

I feel like those Ultra Lounge comps on Rhino with like Esquivel covering “light my fire” or whatever are tangentially related here (deadbeat, tropicalia)

not too strange just bad audio (brimstead), Friday, 27 January 2023 22:00 (one week ago) link

deadweight

not too strange just bad audio (brimstead), Friday, 27 January 2023 22:01 (one week ago) link

^^ fucking love that orphan tune

sleeve, Friday, 27 January 2023 22:10 (one week ago) link

it really should have been on Mutations

sleeve, Friday, 27 January 2023 22:10 (one week ago) link

Revisited Odelay.... it sounded pretty good to me! (I was never a big fan.) But yeah - it doesn't sound much like Smash Mouth, Sugar Ray, or much other late-'90s alt-rock that I can remember; different beats, vocals, vibe...

knock-knock-knockin' on kevin's door (morrisp), Friday, 27 January 2023 23:05 (one week ago) link

The Smash Mouth thing isn't that they as a band on the whole sounded like Beck, it's that their breakthrough hit (and a later, slightly less commercially successful rewrite of said hit) owed a bit to him and the success he had in the mid-'90s.

I have no memory of the track "Minus," but it's really cool!

knock-knock-knockin' on kevin's door (morrisp), Friday, 27 January 2023 23:26 (one week ago) link

The whole Esquivel!/Exotica revival was more of a Stereolab thing. The initial two Esquivel! comps on Bar/None were issued in '94-5, alongside Stereolab's early heyday and the Loungecore movement (Combustible Edison etc.), plus the archival research of Irwin Chusid (who produced those comps amongst other relevant genre reissues). Beck was certainly a fellow traveler to all this.

Glad to see the "Dead weight" appreciation. I bought a dollar yard sale copy of the Life Less Ordinary soundtrack for that, and put it on the very first mix CD I ever made, when we crossed the CD-burner threshold. Absolutely deserved to be on Mutations.

got it in the blood, the kid's a pelican (Doctor Casino), Friday, 27 January 2023 23:34 (one week ago) link

Adjacent to Beck and "Dyin' All Young" is "Block Rockin' Beats" with its Schooly D sample.

??

more crankable (sic), Friday, 27 January 2023 23:56 (one week ago) link

are we talking about "all star" re the song that's supposed to owe a debt to beck? i agree with the folks saying it doesn't sound remotely like beck. did beck actually do the bowling shirt / mutton chops thing explicitly on tour or in videos? i just feel like he was too smarty pants and his sound was coming from a different universe. i hear "all star" and it reminds me of like .. the mighty mighty bosstones, guy fieri, etc. i don't recall a lot of collage in it but maybe i'm misremembering (not going to watch the all star video on a relaxing friday evening). more generic grunge and socal peppiness with a bright pop sheen.

ꙮ (map), Saturday, 28 January 2023 00:00 (one week ago) link

No, "Walking On The Sun", with its '60s organ, fuzz guitar, and looped beat:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQj--Kjn0z8

I guess I do hear the similarities, hearing them back to back like that

knock-knock-knockin' on kevin's door (morrisp), Saturday, 28 January 2023 00:16 (one week ago) link

(When I stopped the Smash Mouth video, someone across the street was blaring Cake’s “Short Skirt, Long Jacket” – it felt like the whole world had somehow collapsed into this thread)

knock-knock-knockin' on kevin's door (morrisp), Saturday, 28 January 2023 00:19 (one week ago) link

Lol, this whole time I also thought we were talking about "All Star", which is the only Smashmouth song I've ever heard, as far as I know.

Muad'Doob (Moodles), Saturday, 28 January 2023 00:28 (one week ago) link

Now that I'm listening to this, I guess I have heard it and it does have a bit of a similarity to "Where It's At".

Muad'Doob (Moodles), Saturday, 28 January 2023 00:31 (one week ago) link

I was right there with the radio when "Walking..." broke, and can't be alone in the disappointment upon getting the album* that it was that track and 11 goofy Ska songs.

*Double-Platinum in the US!

Getting into the Odelay Deluxe bonus tracks – "Deadweight" actually does sound specifically like "Walkin' on the Sun." And the acoustic gtr parts of "Gold Chains" (unreleased tho it may have been) are not unlike Sugar Ray...

knock-knock-knockin' on kevin's door (morrisp), Saturday, 28 January 2023 00:44 (one week ago) link

Does MC 900 Ft Jesus come into this?

with hidden noise, Saturday, 28 January 2023 03:01 (one week ago) link

heard this song in the supermarket today. assumed i was listening to a failed sugar ray carbon copy from 1999 but it turned out to be from 2015, it's freaking me out in a bad bad way

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBeGAk-xfyI

The field divisions are fastened with felicitations. (Deflatormouse), Saturday, 28 January 2023 03:24 (one week ago) link

That’s… really something. I looked up his bio, at least he’s not denying it:

Sonically the music is influenced by the bright melodies and laid-back grooves of the ’90s alterna-pop/rock acts he loves, like LEN, Sugar Ray, Uncle Kracker, No Doubt, and Sublime — artists who captured the effortless, carefree feeling of waking up each morning to a sunny day.

knock-knock-knockin' on kevin's door (morrisp), Saturday, 28 January 2023 06:36 (one week ago) link

thread Q asks for effects and then everyone's all up in each other's faces about antecedents.
tom waits, capt beefheart, TMBG, while we're at it. de la soul, tribe, definitely.

massaman gai (front tea for two), Saturday, 28 January 2023 06:41 (one week ago) link

It's interesting, I'm re-reading this thread and aside from "Pepper" I still don't hear much/any influence-of-Odelay on much other chart music (if anything) aside from, maybe, Dan The Automator productions

I still reckon Drinking in L.A. is a bang to rights Odelay descendant

you can see me from westbury white horse, Saturday, 28 January 2023 13:26 (one week ago) link

The space age pop revival and it spreading to Beck, Stereolab etc is true but also there's the broader lounge revival that it was one wing of. The irony or at least sense that the fascination was revisionary was often part and parcel but it also meant stuff that could be straight up pastiches i.e. The Mike Flowers Pops on the bachelor pad end, and The Moog Cookbook on the muzak end.

And it meant lounge songs becoming UK/European hits thanks to high budget car adverts. It meant the Karminsky Experience Inc. and Tipys and Dimitri From Paris. It meant the Syd Dale Orchestra tracks being used as theme music to TV shows with a sense of cool. And comps like This Is Easy and The Sound Gallery. And spy themes being done up as dance remixes (cf. David Arnold and Propellerheads - together or apart). And names like New Adventures in Hi-Fi and the sound of "This Is Hardcore" or the sleeve of I've Been Expecting You (that eyebrow!) and...

Plus, in more sincere (but even more cool-conscious) waters, there's coffee table trip hop, Mo' Wax etc.

Obv you could probably suck most of the 90s into this void of you go really far but I find it interesting that this whole thing was very transatlantic, even if applied differently in the UK than in the US/CAN.

you can see me from westbury white horse, Saturday, 28 January 2023 13:39 (one week ago) link

Tipsy*

you can see me from westbury white horse, Saturday, 28 January 2023 13:41 (one week ago) link

BS2000 was a band with a Beastie Boy that sounded like they were influenced by Beck.

Chris L, Saturday, 28 January 2023 15:28 (one week ago) link

we did end up with the fantastic TOAH DYNAMIC in the uk but i guessvthey equal parts bonzo dog/ traffic & early happy mondays and they weren't exactly salient. not sure if evil superstars' ESOL word salad was at all beck inspired but it was there

massaman gai (front tea for two), Saturday, 28 January 2023 15:53 (one week ago) link

Good posts ycsmfwhh and I 100% agree re: “Drinking In LA”

french testicle (flamboyant goon tie included), Saturday, 28 January 2023 15:54 (one week ago) link

thread Q asks for effects and then everyone's all up in each other's faces about antecedents.

b/c part of the discussion is whether the later acts would’ve come along anyway without Odelay, and to what extent it was part of larger trends

knock-knock-knockin' on kevin's door (morrisp), Saturday, 28 January 2023 15:57 (one week ago) link

Butterfly effect. Music is always in conversation with itself. Without a controlled experiment, using alternate universes, there is no way to know how things would have evolved in the absence of a specific artist or recording.

is it milli vanilli or just a facsimile (Ye Mad Puffin), Saturday, 28 January 2023 16:08 (one week ago) link

Perhaps, but it’s better than talking about politics

knock-knock-knockin' on kevin's door (morrisp), Saturday, 28 January 2023 16:15 (one week ago) link

https://www.mojo4music.com/articles/stories/bob-dylan-what-do-you-think-of-this-kid-called-beck-i-want-to-make-a-record-the-way-he-makes-records/

IN THE EARLY AUTUMN OF 1996, DANIEL LANOIS AND BOB DYLAN RENDEZVOUSED IN A NEW YOK HOTEL ROOM AT THE SOUTHERN EDGE OF CENTRAL PARK. Dylan read from a ream of lovelorn lyrics, reportedly written while snowbound on his Minnesota farm the previous winter. These were the words Lanois had wanted back at Teatro, when Dylan was feeling out the room and the relationship. Dylan asked if he had a record, and Lanois answered yes. “Off we went,” says Lanois.

Dylan had one more question, engineer Mark Howard remembers: “‘What do you think of this kid called Beck? I want to make a record the way he makes records.’”

That June, Beck had released Odelay, its loops and samples slipping ideas from hip-hop and electronica into the rock charts. It was a novel way to repurpose the past, to look back while moving forward. Lanois had some experience with the method, too, thanks to very recent work with Luscious Jackson, whose Fever In Fever Out LP he co-produced with New York native Tony Mangurian.

#onethread

"How Dad-Rock Dealt With Beck..."

Huh, I didn’t know Lanois co-produced that Luscious Jackson album.

degenerative AI (morrisp), Tuesday, 31 January 2023 02:38 (one week ago) link

Yeah along with Jagger, Dylan was exactly the kind of person I was thinking of when I said Odelay was the Happening Classic for the older gen.

you can see me from westbury white horse, Tuesday, 31 January 2023 06:51 (one week ago) link

Eventually Gorillaz took over this niche.

― Chris L, Friday, January 20, 2023 11:39 PM

yes and no.
two of the studio gurus who basically crafted the first gorillaz album were cass browne and morgan nicholls from senseless things.
before they were sucked into the gorillaz machine they made an album under the guise of delakota.
and their album, one love, was a total odelay spin off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwgbNKLSKMk

mark e, Wednesday, 1 February 2023 20:12 (six days ago) link

Another band I don't think anyone mentioned: Space Monkeys

you can see me from westbury white horse, Wednesday, 1 February 2023 20:54 (six days ago) link

xxxpost - dylan always seems to have some idea of what's going on, like working with arthur baker in the early 80s etc so it wasn't unprecedented

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 1 February 2023 20:59 (six days ago) link

I don't think it's toooo much of a stretch to connect Cold Irons Bound's dubby bass and junkshop beat to all of this (and to the hip hop-pier end of trip hop), even if the similarities are only in my head (they are).

you can see me from westbury white horse, Wednesday, 1 February 2023 21:08 (six days ago) link

Space Monkeys yes! <3 Acid House Killed Rock N Roll!

not too strange just bad audio (brimstead), Wednesday, 1 February 2023 23:25 (six days ago) link


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