pitchfork is dumb (#34985859340293849494 in a series.)

you hear that Alfred?

I'll tap my finger once again at the poster I had printed of Brian Gray Howe's low-key misogynistic review of Edith Frost's (to date) final album, which she said on Twitter was a contributing factor to her quitting music. I'm a fan so that particular one sticks in my craw.

I think there are a lot of bad reviews of that kind from the oughts though, pitchfork having had its fair share and fortunately they have a better approach now with the reviews, that specific kind of thing I doubt would fly now.

I didn't think I was at all cruel.

unless she specified i doubt she was calling out your review

but jlew has been through the pfork ringer multiple times between rilo kiley and her solo work, and i remember many of these reviews being kinda idk unfair. on the other hand lindsay zoladz basically canonized rk forever with a pfork piece. ultimately pfork is as varied as the ppl who write for it

i think she's talking about the bethany coast review from today

that was my suspicion

It's a negative review, but not particularly "scathing" IMO

Cosentino had an even better take:

Love how my pitchfork review is like, “there are grammatical errors in the lyrics” as if it’s a 9th grade English paper, yet no one took the time to proofread the review to make sure my last name is spelled correctly throughout.
God. Bless.

— Bethany Cosentino (@BethanyCoast) August 3, 2023

Well, you can't argue with that...!

lol

What’s interesting about this to me is that I just don’t understand who listens to Best Coast, or Jenny Lewis. Outside of… ILX, I don’t know a single person who has ever spoken of them in any sort of way. Who listens to this stuff?

It's a negative review, but not particularly "scathing" IMO

"Train homage" is fightin' words though

xp- passionate millenial males

xp Hahaha, fair

That Bethany Cosentino review does scan as if she released a book of poetry rather than an album (or maybe that the reviewer is a frustrated poet).

What’s interesting about this to me is that I just don’t understand who listens to Best Coast, or Jenny Lewis. Outside of… ILX, I don’t know a single person who has ever spoken of them in any sort of way. Who listens to this stuff?

Is it so hard to believe that two musicians who make catchy pop-rock that is generally well-reviewed have fans?

I know a lot of normal non Internet damaged ppl who like Jenny Lewis

^one for the sticker

That Bethany Cosentino review does scan as if she released a book of poetry rather than an album

imo this is a thing now and it's honestly a paradigm shift. interviewers will do a whole interview of "this song here says this, can you talk more about that?" in the 90s they barely asked about lyrics at all.

I guess I just think it’s weird that I know not a single person who cares about them IRL, and it’s not like I’m only friends with heads. Lots of more “indie” people in my friend circle, never heard them mentioned in any conversation. Here and music sites are the only reason I have any knowledge of them.

I've met plenty of Best Coast fans around my age & Rilo Kiley fans who are a bit older. I liked Pocahaunted

Omg, I did not know she was in Pocahaunted. Saw them once in a warehouse-type show.

rilo kiley are a canonical millennial band imo…
not very surprising that jenny lewis has lots of fans

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0X3RX2dchU

hey JCLC, what you say about what interviewers have focused on over time is very interesting… uhhh…can you talk more about that? In my experience in the 90s, my peers in the music press almost exclusively engaged with lyrics, which was in my view down to these people having no training in music theory or as working musicians, but did have english degrees. Whereas my impression now (which is indeed at a disadvantage, as I have refused to read Pitchfork since its inception) is that there is greater understanding in the (extremely diminished) music journalism sphere of how music works…

I love Best Coast! Her new record, as Lindsay Zoladz pointed out in the new yorker, is almost unusual for being a basic-ass Sheryl Crow record, except (and I don't know what the Pfork reviewer is saying because I don't fuck with no Pitchfork) in fact she uses contemporary colloquial language very effectively and smoothly, when, like Phoebe bridgers or other indie artists are more concerned with being high flown…if the Pfork reviewer is saying this record is like fancy poetry and shit? Yeah I don't know what the fuck they talking about…

as you might imagine I have rather a lot to say about this but I'd be more comfortable going into detail on 77 or in chat or something.

Yikes

Cosentino’s writing about more personal changes doesn’t fare any better. “It’s Fine,” a warm ode to taking the high road, stumbles when Cosentino sings “I am evolved,” on the closest thing the album ever gets to a bridge. The grammatical choices —“am” instead of “have”—come off more like self-help gibberish than a declaration of self-improvement. When we get to the chorus, an airy reiteration that “it’s fine” (what rhymes with “it’s fine?” Well, “it’s not fine,” of course!), her stratospheric belting feels unearned by the flimsy build-up.

I thought it was a reasonable review?

The craw-stuck lyric is not-at-all rhyming “fine” with “not fine”, the lyric is: “it’s fine ‘til it’s not fine” which is… successful at achieving universal relatability? A very good hook? I think so at least

But yeah a curse on anybody that thinks it’s nagl nagl nagl for a musician to be publicly butthurt about a review. That thing took you 40 min to write? (Reads like it, anyway!) An album takes significantly longer to write record mix master release

It’s literally my favourite thing ever when very-good music writers move into publishing after years of panning and praising for websites and inevitably get reviewed for their toiled upon book and take to Facebook to be like “wow I never realized how awful this feels holy shit”

An album could take months to make and still be shitty, I don’t really know how that factors in…

Artists have every right to take issue with criticism they don’t think it’s fair, but there’s a difference between that and say this:

https://i.imgur.io/D0ZsrbK_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

Jokes on Lizzo because I do both and I'm still unemployed :D

I ILX-mailed you about that btw!

I don't get ILX mail because my login is still my Paper Thin Walls account from like 15 years ago XD

“wow I never realized how awful this feels holy shit”

I think that's how Xgau felt about the critiques of his memoire, he's been loath to cast aspersions since.

Ah ok I had a cool idea, I’ll message you elsewhere

I haven't listened to the Cosentino album, but I feel like her lyrics have always been kind of tossed-off banalities (for better or worse). When Pitchfork loved her 12 years ago, it was for an album with lyrics like "The world is lazy, but you and me, we're just crazy."

Fair to put more critical emphasis on the lyrics when they're not smothered in layers of hiss and distortion - the vocals on the early Best Coast stuff were just a delivery vehicle for vibes.

(I have not listened to the solo album because Best Coast lost me after the first album - when things got cleaner - so I have no idea if Pitchfork's actual criticism is fair or good, my assumption is not because Pitchfork is trash.)

yeah, "tossed off banalities" is right re: best coasts early music, and her record is most assuredly not afflicted as such…

that “Psychos” song has a great sound but christ I cannot handle the lyrics. Even if ironic, it’s just awful cliches heaped on top of each other.

and i love Sheryl Crow.

so i mean i get it, i just do find it weird that i don’t know anyone who listens to these bands. it’s the third time i’ve said it. that doesn’t mean i don’t believe they have fans, but i just find it weird that i’ve never met any of them except here!

Sheryl Crow ❤️

My bf has interesting taste in music— he listens to a lot of bands I didn’t think anybody listens to, many of them my friends? or label-mates? people who have many monthly listeners but I had no comprehension of their audience. He’s not a music fan but he really enjoys stuff like Jenny Lewis!

We finished The Bear S1 and it ends with a “Let Down” sync and we were watching it and I suddenly had a thought and asked him “hey do you know who this band is?” and he just said “no” and I said “no guesses even?” and he said “no, I have no idea.” I sighed with pleasure. But yeah he likes Jenny Lewis a lot

Jenny Lewis opened a leg of the Harry Styles US tour, that earned her some new exposure, I think. My older kid has a Jenny Lewis tour shirt, and I don't think I've ever heard her actually play Jenny Lewis.

I love people writing about music, but I've grown increasingly wary of music criticism, as such. Even when well intentioned it often still feels so mean and unnecessary, especially since it doesn't exactly move the needle any more, it just adds to the negativity and noise, which is in no short supply (and which went up proportionally, and unfortunately, with the rise of downloading and decline of income from actually making - and maybe coincidentally, writing about - music).

Now, good music discussion, analysis, providing context, even debate, I still think that's often really entertaining and useful and thought-provoking, even if the audience for it may be dwindling or distracted. That's one reason some of my favorite Fork things these days (when I remember to catch up) are the Sunday review pieces. The dust has settled, some sort of consensus has been reached or is in need of being belatedly corrected, and the focus can be on something other than "good/bad."

As for lyrics, I could never imagine making them the focus of a review (or interview), but as we've talked about a lot on ILX over the years, lyrics are a funny, fascinating thing. I just read Jeff Tweedy's second book "How to Write One Song," which is kind of an approachable TED talk on that subject, and as someone who doesn't always think too much about lyrics (let alone poetry) I found the sections on writing words (and writing exercises) really interesting, with lots of example of how just a simple tweak can turn something banal into something profound or more compelling, especially when matched with the right piece of music. It's such a complicated, very personal alchemy, writing songs. Even the simple ones. Sometimes especially the simple ones.

I just wanted to say my post was meant to be a dumb joke in response to whiney's post, not an actual comment on Alfred's review

Why the fuck is Jeff tweedy giving advice on lyrics

I assume it's because he's been a professional musician for decades that has written and recorded hundreds of songs that a lot of people like?

Sorry I won’t be a dick

Maybe Rahm Emmanuel will learn some cool lyrical exercises

lol no need to apologize, I do like Tweedy and Wilco even if I'm not a particularly huge fan of his lyrics one way or another, but I do recommend the book. It's not nearly as arrogant an exercise as it may seem, and I always like glimpses into the creative processes of others, and their work habits. especially as someone with terrible work habits.

I want a Bernard Sumner book on writing lyrics. Just a little peek into that head of his

Tweedy had some killer lyrics in Uncle Tupelo, and whether they’re overwrought or not (I’d say the former), some of his lyrics for Wilco are vivid and concrete. I’d rather have some dad sing, “I would like to salute/ the ashes of American flags/ and all the falling leaves/ filling up shopping bags” than someone my age sing banalities like “I’m American-made” (as Cosentino does in “Psychos”).

table - Jenny Lewis is here now'

that stage where you think they aren't popular anymore but are actually way more popular than they were when they had "buzz"