The Monkees: Classic or Dud?

I guess I'm medium-core inasmuch as I know the OG four-piece albums (and, erm, Pool It!) like the back of my hand and have seen Head more times than I can count. Recently heard some decent singles from their trio/duo years which encouraged me to check out those albums.

I was shockingly old when I learned that Davy and Mike share a birthday.

actually, scrolling up, this thread has a lot of still-active names! idk maybe worth a go?

I could make a Top 10 easy (and I've voted in a number of polls where I submitted a list with less than 10 songs). Going back to DJP's original post, while I don't agree they surpassed the Beatles in any department, I do agree there was some kind of genius at work there (just in the songs? something more). And they even had their own imitators! (The Five Americans' "Western Union," the Move's "Wave the Flag and Stop the Train," the Lewis and Clarke Expedition's "Destination Unknown," no doubt others.) Found this cover on a country compilation I bought a couple of weeks ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11F2PW8lcEk

It's kind of amazing how solid all the albums are. They're much more than the sum of their considerable hits.

It was the Missing Links compilations that turned me into a Monkee Nut, the sheer amount of good material that was never released is really remarkable.

I'd certainly vote, mostly for album tracks.

I haven't heard the outtakes but would investigate any which received a lot of acclaim.

I assume this cover is common knowledge (unless it's not?) but I was just listening to Taj Mahal last night.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHbZapq69xQ

I was looking at the list of records from Critic's Choice: Top 200 Albums, an early example of an all-time record poll published in 1978. Number 58 is Michael Nesmith - And The Hits Just Keep On Comin'. It's pretty difficult to imagine this on any individual's all-time list now, much less a collective one (although I bet someone will inform me that it's an all-time, must-hear classic).

It's very good!

"Take a Giant Step" would be a contender for my #1.

I have the Gambaccini book with Nesmith at #58; for what it's worth, there weren't many voters, and I think it got there on the basis of a single #1 vote (John Tobler).

Makes sense, it's just a record I would associate with "here's an interesting oddity you may have overlooked" rather than "bow ye before this canonical work".

I suppose it's a similar situation that put Genevieve Waite - Romance Is On The Rise at number 98.

Same thing, yeah. That was probably the most fascinating thing for me when I first bought the book; all these weird albums I'd never heard of at the time that got in there via a single vote. (Other examples: David Ackles Dory Previn, John Phillips, Huey Smith.)

I might participate in a POLL.

i could do a ballot. would also be interested in the results of a solo career / side project poll.

i will submit a ballot on my wife’s behalf since she is a monkees superfan

I interviewed Dwight Yoakam years ago, and just dug out this nugget about the influence the Monkees had on him:

And Michael Nesmith, interestingly enough. The Monkees. Michael Nesmith wrote “Different Drum,” which Linda Rondstadt had her first hit with. And Michael Nesmith is a transplanted Texan who also had his own solo albums that I was a fan of, that served as an inspiration point. In my teens, to illustrate how country music was pertinent, he had an album with two top ten hits. One was called “Joanne” (sings) “Her name was Joanne, and she lived in a meadow by a farm…” Anyway, there’s another one called “Standing In The Light of the Silver Moon.” So there are things as disparate as one of the guys from the Monkees that influenced country rock and influenced me, ultimately.

Solo career is pretty pointless as Nesmith's solo career dwarfs every one else's in terms of quantity and quality.

Yeah, that's what I figured.

Would anyone vote for any Monkees song post-1968? I don't know that material and have not been very curious.

Last hit was "D.W. Washburn," no?

Then Head and "Porpoise Song" right after that, but the best I've heard about the subsequent records is "adequate".

I like "Tear Drop City" released in '69, but recorded in '66. Boyce and Hart kinda rewriting "Last Train to Clarksville."

Who will run this POLL?

I don't know the albums post-68, but I also like "Tear Drop City," as well as "Good Clean Fun" and "Listen the Band" - both solid Nesmith songs that I got to know through the two-disc version of the Then & Now comp.

Also, just a reminder that we still have an 'order and timing' thread for ballot polls. Things have really cooled down on that front for various reasons, and it doesn't seem like we're still assuming a new poll idea needs to wait its turn behind all past ones. But it would probably be good, if someone wants to do Monkees, to check in just to make sure it's not stepping on the toes of someone else who was just about to roll out a poll they've been waiting ages to do. ILM Ballot Polls for 2020 and beyond -- the ordering, timing, "I would have voted if I'd known about it," etc

Oh, and everyone should hear "Shorty Blackwell" if you haven't; Mickey's attempt to write another "A Day in the Life."

Sorry, wasn't pushing for a POLL immediately, am aware there is a backlog etc.

Yes, there's no hurry.

Just suggesting support for one, is all.

"If I Ever Get To Saginaw" is a really great Monkees deep cut, from the Instant Replay expanded issue. Sung by Nez (but written by someone else I think), it's kind of a heart-rending tale of wayward youth and its consequences. If not a Teenage Symphony To God, surely a Teenage After-School Special To God.

fwiw I didn't intend to chide anybody about proposing a poll! just wanted to shout-out the order-and-timing thread really. the process (such as it is) has settled out by consensus into something way chiller than it was five years ago.

You’re not the only cuddly toy to ever enjoy cutting in line.

I think each and every song on Head gets a slot on my ballot. (There are only six songs on the album.)

I was re-shelving some records and turns out I have the Nesmith album--no recollection of where or when I got it, or what it sounds like.

recently enjoyed his contributions to the commentary track for Repo Man, def worth a listen there

His Facebook posts are pretty enjoyable.

...And The Hits... is a neat album. The lineup--just Nesmith on guitar (and barely audible keyboards) and Red Rhodes on steel--is something I'm surprised other Roots/Americana artists haven't run with, but I guess you need an instrumental wiz like Rhodes on board to really make it work.

As a moderate fan of this group, I was wondering which vaguely comparable (pop, singles-oriented) acts from the late 60s I would judge "equal to or weaker than the Monkees":

EQUAL TO THE MONKEES:
Buffalo Springfield?
Hollies
Left Banke
Mamas and the Papas
Turtles

WEAKER THAN THE MONKEES:
Lovin' Spoonful
Move
Rascals
Troggs

DON'T KNOW THEM WELL ENOUGH:
Association
Box Tops
Four Seasons (a little too early to compare?)
Tommy James

Zombies, fer shure

I am kind of a moderate fan of this group as well, albeit with a couple of ins, which is kind of why I would like a poll - no pressure! - as an excuse for a deeper dive.

The one band from that list I would unhesitatingly put ahead of them would be the Buffalo Springfield. I wouldn't call them a singles band, though--one big hit, nothing else inside the Top 40.

If we're evaluating the Monkees as a "singles band" they might blow everybody on that list out of the water. They just have so many carefully-crafted gems by so many great professional songwriters. OTOH they'd fall beneath most or all of the Motown heavy-hitters.

Old Lunch: I'd say Odessey and Oracle puts the Zombies ahead, there's no single Monkees album as consistent as that.

Clemenza: that's certainly a fair take, Buffalo Springfield were definitely highly ambitious. I find all their records spotty (never heard the box set), and Richie Furay is a null to me.

Doctor Casino: By "singles band" I didn't mean I was evaluating only their singles, I mean I was avoiding comparing them to e.g. Quicksilver Messenger Service or Country Joe and the Fish (who are both a lot weaker than the Monkees). A lot of Monkees singles are more irritating than catchy to me.

I like all of those bands, apart from the Hollies, who I've never paid any attention to.

The Troggs are lower tier though, much as they have some real bangers.

The Monkees, by their very nature, are much more eclectic than any of the bands on the list - I mean, you're talking about an entity that contained both Davy Jones and Michael Nesmith. The Turtles are probably the closest to the Monkees, I'd say.

I like all of these bands too, but rank them all below the best of the era. To me, the Hollies are not well-represented by their compilations, it wasn't until I heard albums like Butterfly that I understood the appeal of Graham Nash.
The Move are also pretty eclectic, despite having only one songwriter, but at some point that shades into wondering if they know what they actually want to do.

@ Halfway - fair enough! I also don't know a lot of those bands as well as I know the Monkees, so off the top of my head I think I could name 3-4 singles by the Association, of which I like 1-2.

I went through the list of top 60s acts on Acclaimed Music to jog my memory for this list.