Smashing Pumpkins: Fresh Fruit or Rotten Veg?

Also, Chamberlin = vastly underrated drummer.

Heheh. I've been using the line since I read it because I was, "Oh, so perfect as ridiculous OTT 'WAAAAAAH!'" 'Deeply' almost ruins the flow of it in my mind!

Anyway, why isn't there more love for Siamese Dream? "Cherub Rock" and "Today" still hold up, I think. But maybe I can like them because I paid approximately zero attention to the image side of the band and never read any of Billy Corgan's interviews. I'm interested to know what he brought to Hole's Celebrity Skin record as well - maybe that collaboration worked because, say what you will about Courtney Love, she's not precious.

I'm relieved to hear you say so, Ned.

I doubt whatever Billy Corgan does with the Smashing Pumpkins name now could be much worse than the last couple albums he made under the original incarnation (or the things he's done since). 'Machina: The Hand of God' or whatever has to be one of the top two or three worst records I've ever heard, by anyone, ever.

But, I grudgingly admit to enjoying a Trent Reznor/TV On the Radio cover of "Warm Leatherette" the other day (though I suspect maybe Peter Murphy was on vocals). And the idea of enjoying something involving Trent Reznor would've seemed about as unlikely as Billy Corgan ever producing anything of any worth after 1994 (barring "Set the Ray to Jerry"). So who knows. . .

Unlike you I loved the end years of SP without reservation, but personally I was both interested and content to see what he'd do after all that, if anything -- personally I was fine with whatever solo or group things he's done since. But this just feels like the big Jane's Addiction reunion(s) mistake redux, and in combination with a (natural) moving away from hyperobsession on my part towards other things, it's all a bit desperate.

It's funny that the article is so defensive about it not being "for the money"--which of course surely means it's about little else (or else why not just call it Zwan II, or Billy & The Corigans?).

As for TVOTR--I'll admit I've never heard any of their music, but assumed they were harmless alterna-rock (though I did read that Bowie was riding their bandwagon, which it seems he was doing with Trent Reznor a decade ago or so).

I tend to do that with a LOT of artists! But these days it's more like the fact that you can pretty much have access to anything at little/no cost and therefore instead of playing something into the ground it's just part of an overall flow, which is good, I think. Everything is process -- I have a few key touchstones still, but even so.

I think meeting Billy Corgan circa 1996 finally put me off of what was, 93-95ish, my last bout of fanaticism with any act.

Upthread I talk about how I probably wouldn't be able to stand him if I ever actually met him! Not having or wanting actual heroes among those cultural figures whose work I enjoy was a good realization.

See, that's interesting. Because it seemed to me at the time (post-95, the twighlight years of Smashing Pumpkins) that a lot of the continued fandom of the band had to do with heroic, mythological rock-god-ness, the Billy Corgan "Zero/Rat In A Cage/Uncle Fester" persona. That you liked the band through that period based solely on the merit of the music--well it seems like that might make you pretty rare. I'll have to go read your review of 'Machina' at AMG if you wrote one, to see what you were able to salvage musically from the record. . .

But it's possible my aversion to "rock gods," or extra-musical projection of "persona" in any form, made me less than open-eared toward 'Adore' and 'Melancholy & The Infinite Sadness'. But I just remember a sinking feeling in my stomach with those records that. . . they just weren't as good as I wanted them to be. It took a couple years of indie rock dissappointment after that to decide that never again would I try to will myself into liking something.

Maybe it is? I have no idea, really.

Every quote from Corgan or Chamberlain on this seems to emphasize that the new songs will 'harken back to the glory days' (i.e., when their records sold), so at the very least I'm hoping I'll get to geek out to Corgan's guitar heroics/Chamberlain's insane drumming/Corgan's incredible use of the studio.

Then again, if they're referring to those glory days as ca. 'Stand Inside Your Love' or something, I'm bummed.

But that Machina II thing that floated around had some pretty interesting tracks on it (granted, smothered in garbage).

Speaking of Garbage, who is producing this new stuff?

what is this? where is this from?

Then he stormed off the stage as the crowd chanted Bullshit over and over again. It was a total fiasco.

too bad the recording's SOOO bad.

Trust the recording, it was terrible.

The fact that Zwan was also supposed to "harken back to the glory days" suggests otherwise. :/

I think this is already happening. There's some sort of basic indie life cycle, where whatever alt-rock was doing when you were 13-18 is pretty aces, and then after that, when you discovered indie music in college and you swore off the radio, at that point the landscape changes. In the bands my age (25) or younger you're getting an increasing number of kids who will speak with sincere admiration for the kick-assness of radio fare like the Foo Fighters' first three albums, which if they came out today would be dismissed immediately. Anyway, all this pontificating aside, I hear the Pumpkins thing in an increasing number of things, and the mix of bombast and sensitivity will always sell pretty well. (I'll bet you dollars to donuts that tons of those emo-hit bands are namechecking the Pumpkins in interviews - wall of guitar, keening whine, no one understand me, what's not to love?) Bear in mind that I love Mellon Collie - see this thread, and love equally things that I hear today that feel like they're made out of the same ingredients - "The Zookeeper's Boy" by Mew pops into my mind....

but the writing on adore is really sharp. it helped them to shed the loud guitars for a spell.

oh, and i probably obsessed over siamese dream briefly in the mid-nineties. same as any kid.

Not to mention the fact that the My Chemical Romance guy really does LOOK a lot like Corgan!

Finally got around to hearing the "Quiet and Other Songs" Siamese Dream demo tape that just got leaked...

It's pretty fuzzy and wobbly... there's a great big rockin version of "set the ray to jerry" on it that makes me wish they had fully fleshed out a version like it later on (much as i love the released version)

it seems billy had only written 1/4 of the lyrics to these songs at this point... he mumbles all over the place..

I was really desperate to hear this back in high school, but hell if i know why... maybe i thought it would contain a little more of the supposed mbv influence billy was talking about back then...

how did this leak anyway? i thought the only copy was at the library of congress (where they'll whip the piss out of you if you try to copy anything)

Hmm, thank you for the tip...

Looks like it's been here since August or so:
http://www.thepumpkins.net/content/view/647/47/

Classic, even if only for Corgan appearing on ECW wrestling and taking someone out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3o2LY9uU6M

I like the guitar sound on Siamese Dream a lot. Hate his voice though, doesn't everyone.

"Smashing Pumpkins to release professional pre-Gish material; re-release Gish, Siamese Dream, and Mellon Collie; Gish and Siamese Dream tour to follow in United States."

(This is from a friend who has a friend in the band. Not sure it's been announced yet, so you heard it here first.)

Billy suddenly realizing why people liked him in the first place, I see. Anyway, nice to hear that stuff like "Jennifer Ever" and "There It Goes" and all that will be getting released formally.