"Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness" by the Smashing Pumpkins

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Eleven years gone by, and Mellon Collie increasingly seems to stand as a truly unique piece of work for its genre and period. Along with Soundgarden (Down on the Upside) and Radiohead (OK Computer), the Pumpkins ended up being one of the only "alt-rock" bands to really chow down on the "long, ambitious, arty statement album" approach. And they went further than either of those others in terms of ambition and certainly length - though we can argue over how well it compares in quality! In any case, it's probably due for a re-evaluation, since it tends to get the same write-off as most such records: it's flabby, it's pretentious, it's stupid, there's filler... but as it happens, it's actually an incredibly robust collection of outsize rockers, curious metal excursions, sweeping ballads, and goofy one-offs. It's Siamese Dream but moreso - whether that works or not is up for grabs.

I think history will be kinder to it once kids like me who bought it by the millions and never turned their backs on it start being in charge at all your major music mags. Let's start the trend here! This can be C/D, S/D, etc. I intended to take it on as a White Album exercise and try and cram it onto a single disc, but I really can't see a way to do it without cheating somehow, since a couple of the album's key ingredients end up getting expressed as really long songs ("Porcelina" and "XYU", to be specific). Plus, you'd be hard-pressed to leave off any of the five singles. At best I can imagine it being only just slightly trimmed back and released as two separate single albums - both discs have a few things I would let go, but not half the material by any means.

Oh, hell, let's try it anyway.

SIDE A - From Starlight To Oblivion

Tonight, Tonight
Zero
1979
XYU
Lily (My One And Only)
Bullet With Butterfly Wings
Cupid De Locke


SIDE B - Porcelina and the Machines of God

Where Boys Fear To Tread
Bodies
Thru The Eyes of Ruby
Galapagos
Thirty-Three
Porcelina of the Vast Oceans
Muzzle

Loses so much of what I love about this album, but, so it goes. And I've spent far too long on this as it is, so, adieu; I leave it up to y'all.

Doctor Casino (Doctor Casino), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 00:50 (fourteen years ago) link

Even when I was 15, "Zero," "1979" and "Bullet with Butterfly Wings" were the only three tracks I liked. Time has narrowed that down to the "1979" alone.

milo z (mlp), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 00:55 (fourteen years ago) link

What was the fifth single? Those three, "Tonight, Tonight" (awful) and what?

milo z (mlp), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 00:56 (fourteen years ago) link

SIDE A:
Here Is No Why

SIDE B:
Love

and maybe some other songs too

Curt1s St3ph3ns, Tuesday, 10 October 2006 01:32 (fourteen years ago) link

What was the fifth single? Those three, "Tonight, Tonight" (awful) and what?

Thirty-Three

Curt1s St3ph3ns, Tuesday, 10 October 2006 01:32 (fourteen years ago) link

what's the deal with this band Nirvana I keep hearing about?

timmy tannin (pompous), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 01:33 (fourteen years ago) link

Some rock and roll thing.

My 1999 take. I don't feel like updating it.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 01:37 (fourteen years ago) link

Anyone else have the Zero cassette?

Jimmy Mod is COMPLETELY MISERABLE SAN DIEGO (The Famous Jimmy Mod), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 01:42 (fourteen years ago) link

Was there something specifically on that available nowhere else? I always loved "The Pistachio Medley" on the CD.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 01:43 (fourteen years ago) link

say what you want, think what you want, complain all you want about corgan and his ego, but there's some great songs on this album.

latebloomer: just raw dead fucking, babies! (latebloomer), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 01:54 (fourteen years ago) link

Never was a big Smashing Pumpkins fan, but I think this one is great and still enjoy listening to it. It is one of the few double CDs by a popular act that justifies its length.

I relate to a lot of what Ned says in his review. Having Alan Moulder involved on this probably helped big time!

Matt Olken (Moodles), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 02:48 (fourteen years ago) link

my 'fave' smashing pumpkins album if such a thing exists, i haven't heard it in probably eight and half years at least and i can't even imagine what kinda nostalgia flood i'd get if i did. if you'd told me at the time they had two albums left in them and that the second one would basically only be heard (or even known about damn near) by their fans, that by the end of the decade they'd be done and it wouldn't even be a big deal i'd never have believed you.

j blount (papa la bas), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 03:21 (fourteen years ago) link

"tonight tonight" is my favorite pumpkins song, mostly because i like the ratatat drumming and the galumphing strings. the video was pretty cool too, i think. i wonder if it's on youtube.

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 03:28 (fourteen years ago) link

i always thought the video was kinda overrated (LOVED the '1979' vid though), but i was crazy about the song (close enough to the moody blues for me!). winter of 95!

j blount (papa la bas), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 03:36 (fourteen years ago) link

i think i'm just a sucker for melies. (the video is on youtube, i just checked). listening to it just now it sounded like...the decemberists. but i still like it.

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 03:39 (fourteen years ago) link

As much as I've tried to distance myself from this album since middle school, this thread has made me really really want to listen to it again.

I think the exclusion of "Stumbleine" on the original list is a crime (as well as the two songs I mentioned upthread).

Curt1s St3ph3ns, Tuesday, 10 October 2006 03:42 (fourteen years ago) link

Its overlong, its arty, its pretentious - some of the best qualities a rock album should have. At least "Mellon Collie" was a powerful antidote to the macrobiotic rock of too many 90's alternative bands.

Marco Damiani (Marco D.), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 06:04 (fourteen years ago) link

Lots of great songs. I like the stylistic variation, I love the cover, and I like the concept too.

But.... It would have worked better as a 70 minute plus single album rather than an overlong double CD.

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 08:58 (fourteen years ago) link

what's macrobiotic rock?

richardk (Richard K), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 09:34 (fourteen years ago) link

It was overrated crap when it came out, and so it remains.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 10:32 (fourteen years ago) link

This is definitely the best thing they ever did. Gish was very good but didn't really stand out as a classic; Siamese Dream? Well a lot of people liked it but I found i a bit boring to be honest; Adore was very good but just not the Pumpkins any more; everythign else was, well I didn't bother with it.

It's a true stunner - just pure indulgence from start to finish and yes, at the time I would listen to it from start to finish. I tried listening again the other day - some bits stuck out and others faded into the background, but that's merely from having heard it so many times that it's been etched upon my eardrums like a hot pie or a pasty. No mainstream rock band is doing something this big at the moment. It seems that after OK Computer and Mellon Collie, people decided to go back to just drums/guitar/bass punk singalongs as they knew they couldn't compete. I even like the jokey tracks at the end. "Beautiful" just sums up mid-teen crushes so well. "We Only Come Out At Night"; "Lily My One And Only" - these are awesome fun tunes like those on the White Album. Then you've got wicked rockers like "Bullet With Butterfly Wings" and "Love". It's too too good.

wogan lenin (dog latin), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 10:38 (fourteen years ago) link

As the original poster says, the reason it gets put down is because of Corgan's unwillingness to make an album for adults. If I had been 25 when this came out I'd probably have hated it - the bawling vocal, the post-grunge/proto-emo "you don't understand me OR MY MUSIC" white middle class ethic; the Queen/Prog-inspired pomp and circumstance. It's enough to make a man sick.

But to a 15 year old kid, this tastes like candy-apples. It is a decade old album, and in the same way that at the time we laughed at the Human League, the Smiths and Big Daddy Kane, so to do we about this in 2006. This is why it'll be critically re-evaluated in another ten years and top many a best-of list.

wogan lenin (dog latin), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 10:54 (fourteen years ago) link

If I had been 25 when this came out I'd probably have hated it

Hmm. I was 24. Maybe it's an American thing. ;-)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 11:30 (fourteen years ago) link

i like it as a concept, and can still stomach most of the songs
some bloody awful vocals on it though

Charlie Howard (the sphinx), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 11:34 (fourteen years ago) link

i didn't like this much when it came out but came to like it a lot more a few years ago

kyle (akmonday), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 12:57 (fourteen years ago) link

i like it as a concept, and can still stomach most of the songs
some bloody awful vocals on it though
-- Charlie Howard (charlieflie...), October 10th, 2006.

Cheers to Charlie.

Andi Headphones (Andi Headphones), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 16:40 (fourteen years ago) link

"But.... It would have worked better as a 70 minute plus single album rather than an overlong double CD."

entirely OTM.
i still go back to this one occasionally, but end up only listening to rough 1/2 of it. otherwise, it's a total nostalgia trip and not entirely a worthwhile one.

as far as the singles go- i can really only listen to 1979+33 (odd, both the number name ones!). zero's alright on a drunken night. BWBW's=blech. even as a fan.

Siamese Dream still destroys this album for me. Picese, too.
Adore= dreck of drecktown.
Machina 1= only slightly better.

edde (edde), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 16:53 (fourteen years ago) link

Ned Raggett approves of Smashing Pumpkins but not Jack Johnson (shoes that look like feet)? Bah.

the Adversary (but, still, a friend of yours) (Uri Frendimein), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 17:42 (fourteen years ago) link

Plus, you'd be hard-pressed to leave off any of the five singles.

I don't have a particular CD80 version in mind (yet), but I know that I'd cut "Zero" and "Bullet with Butterfly Wings" in a heartbeat. I don't particularly care for either.

And I could take or leave "Tonight, Tonight," but "Thirty-Three" and "1979" would be essential.

Stephen Bush (Stephen B.), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 17:43 (fourteen years ago) link

I have become increasingly tired of whiney bands, but I never did like this one. When the Siva video from Gish came out, I thought for a second, "hey, that's kind of like Sonic Youth," but that was the extent of my appreciation for this band, whom I can't stand, btw. So, it should go without saying that this particular album, the worst of their worst, drives me up the wall.

This gets my award for worst lyrics ever:

"Emptiness is loneliness, and loneliness is cleanliness
And cleanliness is godliness, and god is empty just like me (dumb)
Intoxicated with the madness, I'm in love with my sadness (peeee-YUKE!)
Bullshit fakers (like Billy?), enchanted kingdoms
The fasion victims (Oh, like Billy?) chew their charcoal teeth" (dumb)

the Adversary (but, still, a friend of yours) (Uri Frendimein), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 17:51 (fourteen years ago) link

They were effectively done for me after Pisces Iscariot.

I'll never forget seeing the debut of the "Bullet With Butterfly Wings" video on Much Music. It would have been October 95.

The lyrics, the riffs, the imagery in the video - all of it made me nauseous. I was extremely disappointed with the album, and I didn't pay attention to them from that moment on.

I think Wogan made a good point. Probably would have sounded great had I been a teenager. I was 23 at the time.

Brooker Buckingham (Brooker B), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 17:56 (fourteen years ago) link

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

@ concept of this thread

benrique (Enrique), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 19:08 (fourteen years ago) link

Here is my 13-track version of Mellon Collie that follows the blueprint of Siamese Dream track-for-track (as far as album structure, tone and mood, high and low points, etc.) that I would argue is as good as (or even better than) that album:

------

01 Where Boys Fear to Tread
02 Bodies

An excellent start to disc two of Mellon Collie; my version keeps both tracks intact, mirroring the one-two punch of "Cherub Rock" and "Quiet, rocking out at the start and avoiding the singles so far.

03 Muzzle
This should have been a single from Mellon Collie; it would be the lead single (and prominently placed third track, like "Today") on my version.

04 1979
05 Here Is No Why

A good spot for a couple strong songs (think "Hummer" and "Rocket") which deserve to come sooner than later in the album; "1979" would be the second or third single, along with...

06 Thirty-Three
07 We Only Come Out at Night

The last of the three singles from my version gets the spot of "Disarm" here, with an excellent low-key song (a la "Soma") to follow it and complement its mood perfectly.

08 Jellybelly
Lest the album go soft before its time, "Geek USA" is mirrored by this one.

09 Galapogos
The epic song, like "Mayonaise," that would rightfully be a fan favorite comes at this point; too far back in the track listing for fair-weather fans, just right for those who learn the album front-to-back.

10 Stumbleine
11 Thru the Eyes of Ruby
12 Lily (My One and Only)

Following the path of "Spaceboy"-"Silverfuck"-"Sweet Sweet" comes this trio of songs; the album's ambitious, lengthy, epic song bookended with a couple shorter, prettier ones.

13 Farewell and Goodnight
The closer on Mellon Collie stays where it should be, closing the album (like "Luna") with subtlety and beauty.

------

I don't really miss anything from the original Mellon Collie with my version, either.

> The ridiculous RAWK songs - "Zero," "Bullet with Butterfly Wings," "Fuck You," "Scorched Earth," and "XYU" - would be perfect for '90s alt-rock bands who actually deserve to suck, not the Pumpkins.

> The slower discarded songs - "To Forgive," "Cupid De Locke," "Take Me Down," "In the Arms of Sleep," "Beautiful," and "By Starlight" - are sappy and forgettable to my ears, especially compared to similar songs that made the cut.

> "Mellon Collie," the instrumental intro, was appropriate for an ambitious double album, not for my version.

> A couple songs in particular - "Tonight, Tonight" and "Love" - just didn't fit the overall mood of my version of the album.

> Two epics on my version would be excessive, so "Porcelina" was left behind in favor of "Ruby," which works better in context.

Stephen Bush (Stephen B.), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 19:42 (fourteen years ago) link

I think your version is a very strong collection of songs - but somewhere along the way I think this kind of sequencing loses the kitchen-sink approach that gives Mellon Collie its particular flavor. Ned's review I think seems to be picking up on this point - it's not even what the songs are, it's the idea that alt-rockers could make a White Album, could do big, all-over-the-map albums. Granted, Siamese Dream is a great template for big, all-over-the-map-ness! So I dunno.

I've never had any use at all for "Stumbleine." You're probably right about opening with "Where Boys Fear To Tread" - I thought about doing it that way too, I mean that opening bass slide is such a fabulous stage-setter! Something appeals to me about cutting straight in on the out-front riffing trudge of "Zero" though - it sets up an idea of what the album is that will then be immediately blown to pieces by what follows.

Glad to see "Thru The Eyes of Ruby" and "Galapogos" getting their due in any case. And my local alt-rock station actually played "Muzzle" so much I thought it was the final single!

No mainstream rock band is doing something this big at the moment. It seems that after OK Computer and Mellon Collie, people decided to go back to just drums/guitar/bass punk singalongs as they knew they couldn't compete.

This is interesting! I was satisfied thinking of these albums as unique for the period, but has mainstream rock really not produced anything in this vein since? I'm racking my brain and I'm sure we're missing something really obvious. Granted, there have been "ambitious" mainstream rock albums - I guess American Idiot is being viewed this way - but not with this much sonic variety and sheer quantity of different ideas and hooks in play. Who'll be the next to try? For some reason I think Modest Mouse could have it in them - they've certainly done huge widescreen albums before, and have shown at least some willingness to bend on the guitar-band format. Dunno, though.

Doctor Casino (Doctor Casino), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 20:29 (fourteen years ago) link

I think the best recent example is Nick Cave's Abattoir Blues/The Lyre of Orpheus, which works fantastically - only 17 songs and not quite mainstream, but a great double album nonetheless.

I don't really like the kitchen sink approach, though - Cave's album is more sonically cohesive than Mellon Collie could ever claim to be, and a lot stronger for it. I much prefer Mellon Collie in its truncated form; I would skip around anyway listening to the whole thing.

What would you suggest to take the place of "Stumbleine" as a slower transitional track to "Ruby" anyway?

Stephen Bush (Stephen B.), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 20:40 (fourteen years ago) link

Saw them on this tour. Awesome it was and the album still sounds great.

Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy (Kerr), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 20:46 (fourteen years ago) link

i always liked "they only come out at night"

second the praise of abbatoir blues/lyre of orpheus.

M@tt He1geson: Real Name, No Gimmicks (Matt Helgeson), Tuesday, 10 October 2006 20:53 (fourteen years ago) link

06 Thirty-Three
07 We Only Come Out at Night
The last of the three singles from my version gets the spot of "Disarm" here, with an excellent low-key song (a la "Soma") to follow it and complement its mood perfectly.

Interesting that you draw a comparison between "Soma" and "We Only Come Out at Night," b/c "Soma" = EPIC GUITAR FREAKOUT. "Porcelina" would seem like a more obvious choice, but I think I understand yr choice.

Curt1s St3ph3ns, Tuesday, 10 October 2006 21:24 (fourteen years ago) link

YO BILLY COGAN... U KNO DAT SONG, IT GO "N SHE KNOW, SHE KNOW, SHE KNOW"... U GET DAT FROM MY BOI, KING STANS ALBUM "SLANGUAGE?"

HOLLA BACK STAN I GOT U COVERED!!!!!!!!

pumkin (pumkin), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 02:11 (fourteen years ago) link

huge, sprawling and thin.

They supposedly had 45 songs going into the studio.

Just a totally played out venture, Darcy and Johnny Aha were nowhere to be heard from.

Brandon Welch (Brandon Welch), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 04:05 (fourteen years ago) link

Interesting that you draw a comparison between "Soma" and "We Only Come Out at Night," b/c "Soma" = EPIC GUITAR FREAKOUT. "Porcelina" would seem like a more obvious choice, but I think I understand yr choice.

I think "We Only Come Out at Night" relates more to the first 3:00 and last :45 of "Soma" than to the guitar parts in the middle - I was really trying to capture the overall mood of the song, and I remember "Soma" as a come-down in the wake of the bombastic high of "Disarm" more so than a guitar song, believe it or not.

Stephen Bush (Stephen B.), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 13:51 (fourteen years ago) link

They supposedly had 45 songs going into the studio.

No, they had a lot more. I've heard 'em.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 13:56 (fourteen years ago) link

I guess it bears repeating that if Corgan ever put out a 5xCD set of extended versions of the songs on “Pistachio Medley,” I’d buy that sumbitch in a heartbeat

Raymond Cummings (Raymond Cummings), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 14:47 (fourteen years ago) link

They supposedly had 45 songs going into the studio.

28 songs on Mellon Collie, plus 21 Corgan or Iha songs that ended up being b-sides . Damn, that's enough songs for four full length albums!

But yeah, they needed an editor for this album. I always thought the second disc was much stronger than the first. I would take...

Cupid de Locke, Galpagos, and Porcelina off the first disc.

Thirty-Three, In the Arms of Sleep, 1979, Stumbeline, X.Y.U. (maybe), We Only Come Out at Night, Lily, By Starlight off of the second.

That comes out to about 52 minutes, and a much less rocking album. But to my ears at least, the more rocking Pumpkins songs are the ones that have dated the worst. The guitar histrionics don't really blow me away like they used to, and that's when Corgan tends to bust out his most embarassing lyrics. My version would come out closer to the mood of Adore, which is fine with me because I always liked Adore better than Siamese Dream or Mellon Collie or Gish.

Zachary Scott (Zach S), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 16:57 (fourteen years ago) link

I have the CD-single box set w/ a bunch of those Corgan or Iha songs (Aeroplane Over the Sea or something like that), some of their best songs ("Pennies" in particular, one of the most beautiful of all their songs).

I haven't listened to either disc of this album in forever, however, I do often listen to a mix CD I made a few years back containing a short list of their longest, most overblown songs (which are invariably my favs) - "Porcelina..." and "Through The Eyes Of A Ruby" are included (as is my other favorite ginormous Punkins jam "Starla").

got yourself a fish biscuit! (nickalicious), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 17:03 (fourteen years ago) link

In fact, this was the entire tracklist:

Thru The Eyes of a Ruby
Soma
Silverfuck
Starla
Porcelina of the Vast Oceans

got yourself a fish biscuit! (nickalicious), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 17:06 (fourteen years ago) link

The high point of my high school band playing in years was unfortunately not related to any of the many songs we put our blood sweat tears etc into writing, but was actually covering "Muzzle" in the basement of our friend "punk rock Sandra"'s ginormous house on her birthday.

got yourself a fish biscuit! (nickalicious), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 17:07 (fourteen years ago) link

Nothing endears me to a touring band faster than a cover of a song on Mellon Collie. I saw this band called A Roman Holiday one time a few years ago - nice guys, good little show, but ultimately what really stuck with me was their minute-and-a-half of playing "Bodies."

"(Aeroplane Over the Sea or something like that)"

Even better!

Doctor Casino (Doctor Casino), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 23:38 (fourteen years ago) link

"I always liked Adore better than Siamese Dream or Mellon Collie or Gish."

this is, obviously, crazy talk.

if you do not concede that Siamese Dream's roar+bluster demolishes Adores faux-goth leanings and electronic feel, you, sir, are missing out on the whole sheebang.

"No, they had a lot more. I've heard 'em."
happily, after all these years, i think i've heard a good amount of em, and have em in high quality (thank you Gravity Demos!!!! that thing slays me in many ways, but none as better {or as telling as where MCIS would go} as the indominateable 'Jackboot') which, ya know,i got that goin for me...

edde (edde), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 23:49 (fourteen years ago) link

Adore is awesome for the first 12 tracks. If there were ever an album that needed trimming more than those off Mellon Collie, it's fucking Adore for those four yawnfest songs at the end. I don't want to hear Billy going all Elton John about his dead mom and shit (heartless bastard, I know). (OK "17" can stay but that's only because it's not a real song.)

But Adore can never be the bad Smashing Pumpkins album because "Appels + Oranjes" PWNS PWNS PWNS

Curt1s St3ph3ns, Thursday, 12 October 2006 00:20 (fourteen years ago) link

April 1998:

Addicted To Noise: Basically, you pretty much reinvented the Pumpkins sound with your new album, Adore. Tell me about that.

Billy Corgan: (laughs) Well.

D'Arcy Wretzky: Take a deep breath.

James Iha: Take out one drummer. Take out the guitars.

Wretzky: Get another drummer.

Corgan: That's it. Add some keyboards. Play some lame- ass tunes.

Wretzky: (laughs)

ATN: What are some of the things that you went through between the completion of Mellon Collie and recording this album that you feel had a strong impact on the songs and the sound of the album?

Corgan: Well, Jimmy's departure is the biggest, #1 thing. And then I would say just the general decision to let go of the rock sound, even before Jimmy Chamberlin left the band. So I would say those are the two major things. As far as things that went on in our lives, I think James summed it up a little bit. There's a certain kind of mental pounding that goes on when you're playing arena rock and loud music. There's kind of an almost innate desire to want to move to the other end of the spectrum just to achieve a new feeling. I think we naturally gravitated toward something a little quieter and something a little more textured. Now that we've done that, we're ready to rock again.

(laughter)

Corgan: Which of course can be amazing, because if this album does really well, then everyone will question our return to rock. (laughs)

Iha: I love it! 'Why are you rocking when you made such a nice last record?'

Wretzky: 'But you said rock is dead!' Iha: Yeah. 'Why are you going back to rock?'

Corgan: Ooh la la.

Iha: Why don't we do the interview for the next album? Right now!.

http://www.starla.org/articles/growup.htm

flappy bird, Friday, 24 November 2017 19:12 (three years ago) link

bless D'Arcy and James

Simon H., Friday, 24 November 2017 19:16 (three years ago) link

i can't count the number of times i've been in what started as an actual conversation, but gradually morphed into the other person yelling at an imaginary person but actually just staring and yelling at me in real life, as if i held the opinions of the imaginary person.

― Karl Malone, Friday, November 24, 2017 9:34 AM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

my dad does this to me all the time, it's funny because he always punctuates it with this bug eyed stare at the end like "REALLY, I'M NOT KIDDING", as if he's not totally preaching to the choir

brimstead, Friday, 24 November 2017 19:19 (three years ago) link

I love Tonight Tonight but that bald chap who appears to be a complete crank (in a bad way) has the worst 'singing' voice this side of Kelly Jones.

Custard Cream, Friday, 24 November 2017 19:22 (three years ago) link

"Well, Jimmy's departure is the biggest, #1 thing. And then I would say just the general decision to let go of the rock sound, even before Jimmy Chamberlin left the band."

So Jimmy's departure wasn't the #1 thing, then - they already had a direction in mind.

Gholdfish Killah (Turrican), Friday, 24 November 2017 19:23 (three years ago) link

:/

Simon H., Friday, 24 November 2017 19:24 (three years ago) link

my all time favorite james interview moment, from this july 99 web chat:

<g60girl> what kind of cars do you guys drive?
<James> I have a Volvo.
<lunatriste> Whats the new album going to be called?
<James> I have a Volvo.

gimme the beet poison, free my soul (Doctor Casino), Friday, 24 November 2017 19:29 (three years ago) link

lmao love james and d’arcy

ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Friday, 24 November 2017 20:11 (three years ago) link

jimmy is also pretty hilarious in the zwan doc

ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Friday, 24 November 2017 20:12 (three years ago) link

Have any of you ever seen Vieuphoria?

The Harsh Tutelage of Michael McDonald (Raymond Cummings), Saturday, 25 November 2017 01:48 (three years ago) link

vieuphoria rules

Karl Malone, Saturday, 25 November 2017 01:51 (three years ago) link

Honestly, the Frogs interlude is my favorite part

The Harsh Tutelage of Michael McDonald (Raymond Cummings), Saturday, 25 November 2017 01:52 (three years ago) link

pulseczar rules
french movie theme rules

brimstead, Saturday, 25 November 2017 02:02 (three years ago) link

vieuphoria kicked off a series of events that ended with me singing "Grandma in the corner with a penis in her hand going no no no no no" in my head on a fairly regular basis for several years

Karl Malone, Saturday, 25 November 2017 02:04 (three years ago) link

i love vieuphoria though parts of it are ponderous

ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Saturday, 25 November 2017 02:13 (three years ago) link

though when i was a kid the dvd release of vieuphoria was like a major event in my life, a real holy grail moment lol

ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Saturday, 25 November 2017 02:14 (three years ago) link

1994 amirite

The Harsh Tutelage of Michael McDonald (Raymond Cummings), Saturday, 25 November 2017 02:20 (three years ago) link

(this vhs tape was part of my Christmas present that year, I think?)

The Harsh Tutelage of Michael McDonald (Raymond Cummings), Saturday, 25 November 2017 02:21 (three years ago) link

i never owned it but my friend had the VHS in high school and we'd watch it all the time after school

Karl Malone, Saturday, 25 November 2017 02:22 (three years ago) link

the thing i remember watching that really got me hooked was a "videography" show on MTV where billy/james/d'arcy ran through and talked about all the videos up through melon collie.

brimstead, Saturday, 25 November 2017 02:25 (three years ago) link

this Apathy Video channel keeps delivering. after a 2 week break, they're back with some more gold. afaik the full tape of this show has never circulated, and the quality is much better than the only clip of it I've ever seen (Fuck You).

this show has always confounded me. they get a 40 minute set at a benefit show, play 3 singles in a row, then Fuck You... then a 20 minute Silverfuck. the swagger and gall of the Pumpkins at their peak right before the OD in New York is just stunning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u589RhkuJN0

flappy bird, Tuesday, 5 December 2017 22:46 (three years ago) link

As the original poster says, the reason it gets put down is because of Corgan's unwillingness to make an album for adults. If I had been 25 when this came out I'd probably have hated it - the bawling vocal, the post-grunge/proto-emo "you don't understand me OR MY MUSIC" white middle class ethic; the Queen/Prog-inspired pomp and circumstance. It's enough to make a man sick.

But to a 15 year old kid, this tastes like candy-apples. It is a decade old album, and in the same way that at the time we laughed at the Human League, the Smiths and Big Daddy Kane, so to do we about this in 2006. This is why it'll be critically re-evaluated in another ten years and top many a best-of list.

― wogan lenin (dog latin), Tuesday, October 10, 2006 6:54 AM (eleven years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

flappy bird, Saturday, 16 December 2017 02:22 (three years ago) link

Dog Latin was wrong - this album has never went away. It's been in "best albums you must hear before you croak" type of lists since ever.

Gholdfish Killah (Turrican), Saturday, 16 December 2017 09:08 (three years ago) link

flappy thanks for that video. hadn't heard this since i was there
27:15>29:50 wowowow

alomar lines, Sunday, 17 December 2017 19:05 (three years ago) link

ah awesome! that must've been a crazy show, lineup was stacked

flappy bird, Monday, 18 December 2017 18:46 (three years ago) link

one year passes...

i seriously can't imagine the life of the person who only likes the quiet smashing pumpkins songs. they probably put salt in their coffee and live in a tent in a tree

― congratulations (n/a), Tuesday, November 27, 2012 11:52 AM bookmarkflaglink

difficult listening hour, Sunday, 3 November 2019 11:20 (one year ago) link

eight months pass...

i can play "here is no why" on the drums now :D

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Wednesday, 15 July 2020 16:38 (one year ago) link

of course, next to "1979" that is probably the simplest non-synthetic drum part on this record

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Wednesday, 15 July 2020 16:40 (one year ago) link

Tribute cover version of the full album next

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 15 July 2020 16:56 (one year ago) link

the hi-hat accents on "1979" seem like they'd be tricky to pull off!

trapped out the barndo (crüt), Wednesday, 15 July 2020 16:58 (one year ago) link

oh i guess it's the drum machine that does those:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuOFL_XU7jc

trapped out the barndo (crüt), Wednesday, 15 July 2020 17:02 (one year ago) link

^^

and even then, hard to pull off with the same feel (drum-machine assist in the original I guess)

according to leading randos, Chamberlain didn't bother trying to do the hi-hat accents live, either

xp

The GOAT Harold Land (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 15 July 2020 17:02 (one year ago) link

i tried to drum along to "geek usa" yesterday too and it was hilarious. chamberlin is a tank

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Wednesday, 15 July 2020 17:12 (one year ago) link

Nah JC is playing along with the drum machine on 1979, I can't listen to confirm but iirc the hi hat accent only comes in after the first stanza?

Here is No Why is so much fun to play, Brad

flappy bird, Wednesday, 15 July 2020 17:13 (one year ago) link

these are things i already implicitly knew but there's an extra reality to it when i'm trying to make my idiot arms and legs do anything he does, especially at that speed

i can play "rhinoceros" too, primarily because it's slow. it's also a blast xp

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Wednesday, 15 July 2020 17:14 (one year ago) link

what about To Forgive? that's a great drum part

flappy bird, Wednesday, 15 July 2020 17:16 (one year ago) link

iirc the hi hat accent only comes in after the first stanza

yep

The GOAT Harold Land (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 15 July 2020 17:16 (one year ago) link

SP has like 10000000 great drum parts

The GOAT Harold Land (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 15 July 2020 17:16 (one year ago) link

hearing what JC can do with just a lil trap kit in the first sets of the pajama shows is so valuable. I think they played To Forgive in that set? or no, they alternated.

flappy bird, Wednesday, 15 July 2020 17:17 (one year ago) link

what about To Forgive? that's a great drum part

― flappy bird, Wednesday, July 15, 2020 10:16 AM (forty-five seconds ago) bookmarkflaglink

i played along with it yesterday too but i'm pretty sure i severely bowdlerized it, gonna have to study further

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Wednesday, 15 July 2020 17:17 (one year ago) link

i'm honestly proud of myself for even being able to suss out how he's playing what he's playing without drum cover videos, when i first started drumming jimmy's playing made absolutely no sense to me

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Wednesday, 15 July 2020 17:19 (one year ago) link

i tried to drum along to "geek usa" yesterday too and it was hilarious. chamberlin is a tank

one of several SP songs I can't even passably air drum

k*r*n koltrane (Simon H.), Wednesday, 15 July 2020 17:20 (one year ago) link

when i hear drum rolls, i know i'm either about to cherub rock or watch pocahontas on disney+

a morley steve vai bad horsie what? (Sufjan Grafton), Wednesday, 15 July 2020 17:27 (one year ago) link

those snare rolls during the second and third choruses of Here is No Why >>>>

great use of the Ab octave pumpkin chord in that part!

flappy bird, Wednesday, 15 July 2020 17:38 (one year ago) link

that song kicks so much ass

trapped out the barndo (crüt), Wednesday, 15 July 2020 17:42 (one year ago) link

I haven't drummed in forever but I would love to attempt drumming 'Muzzle'. At least that first bit. I assume the logistics are a little something like

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VV5JOQyUYNg

Well, that's a fine howdy adieu! (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 15 July 2020 18:22 (one year ago) link

The drums on "Jellybelly" are maniacal.

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Wednesday, 15 July 2020 21:48 (one year ago) link

Years ago I had friends that put together a Pumpkins cover band for a benefit and I hung out at a bunch of their practices. Even just watching someone else try to learn Jimmy's parts brought me a whole new appreciation.

soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 15 July 2020 21:57 (one year ago) link

did they try Jellybelly? lol

yeah even the "simple" parts are deceptively complex (like To Forgive, or even the straightforward electric version of Disarm where he comes in on the second verse)

flappy bird, Thursday, 16 July 2020 00:16 (one year ago) link


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