too far
― Point being, I hate all of you. (Lamp), Monday, 30 March 2009 18:56 (fifteen years ago) link
what's it like to be white?
― cool app (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Monday, 30 March 2009 18:59 (fifteen years ago) link
maybe that question needs a new thread
*thoughtfully strokes neckbeard*
― the most brazen explosion of clitoral lust in folk-metal history (cankles), Monday, March 30, 2009 6:27 PM (24 minutes ago) Bookmark
watch out for them pop tart crumbs
― just DO THE STANKY HOOS plain and steen (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 30 March 2009 19:00 (fifteen years ago) link
btw u are very white
― Comprehensive Nuclear Suggest-Ban Treaty (Hurting 2), Monday, 30 March 2009 19:59 (fifteen years ago) link
hush, cracker
― mookieproof, Monday, 30 March 2009 19:59 (fifteen years ago) link
ritz, cracker
― stank pony (M@tt He1ges0n), Monday, 30 March 2009 20:06 (fifteen years ago) link
my coke-rap name is gram cracka
― I'm the head soul brother in the US. Where to now? (bernard snowy), Monday, 30 March 2009 20:09 (fifteen years ago) link
bernard snowy's not a bad one either.
― •--• --- --- •--• (Pleasant Plains), Monday, 30 March 2009 20:10 (fifteen years ago) link
in response to Max's post (before all the one-liners): Are indie bands the "whitest of the white"? There are plenty of genres that are whiter, or at least as white, based on racial makeup of audiences and musicians: country, metal, avant-garde classical, noise, prog, goth. Is the "white guilt" more prominent in indie because it's somewhat the dominant genre for educated white people, "white guilt" being found less in working class white people? I'm a white person that listens to white music, and I don't feel guilty about it or feel the need to criticize the whiteness of the music or scenes surrounding the music I like.
I was discussing this awhile back with a friend whose former band made Chunklet's list of "whitest bands." I think there are multiple types of music that get coded as "white." There's the mopey "we are losers" introspective indie whiteness, a similar, perhaps undeserving "angst" that also marks emo as "white," which is different from the analytical "nerdiness" of prog, noise and avant-garde that is also coded as white. One could connect both types of whiteness as lacking in the working-class masculinity (the badassness mentioned in one of the earlier posts on this thread). However, if one's music is more marginal, I think a white person that's into it naturally feels less guilty about it being white, because most white people aren't into it either.
― unexpected item in bagging area (sarahel), Monday, 30 March 2009 20:49 (fifteen years ago) link
metal and goth are ASSUREDLY not whiter than indie rock when it comes to "racial makeup of audiences and musicians"
― tenderhoos (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, 30 March 2009 20:52 (fifteen years ago) link
That was mighty white of you, whiney.
― •--• --- --- •--• (Pleasant Plains), Monday, 30 March 2009 20:53 (fifteen years ago) link
"You Make Me Feel (Mighty White)"
― Bianca Jagger (jaymc), Monday, 30 March 2009 20:54 (fifteen years ago) link
"I'm a white person that listens to white music, and I don't feel guilty about it or feel the need to criticize the whiteness of the music or scenes surrounding the music I like."
rock n roll is black music, fwiw.
― Whitey G. Whitegarten (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, 30 March 2009 20:55 (fifteen years ago) link
oh boy
― just DO THE STANKY HOOS plain and steen (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 30 March 2009 20:56 (fifteen years ago) link
xp Whiney: I think it depends on what type of metal and what bands, etc.
― unexpected item in bagging area (sarahel), Monday, 30 March 2009 20:57 (fifteen years ago) link
A Paler Shade of White---Sasha Frere-Jones Podcast and New Yorker article Criticizing Indie Rock for Failing to Incorporate African-American Influences
― mookieproof, Monday, 30 March 2009 20:58 (fifteen years ago) link
xpost
I mean, I think pretty much any metal outside of (ironically enough) black metal is more racially diverse than indie rock. But we're splitting hairs here.
― Whitey G. Whitegarten (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, 30 March 2009 20:59 (fifteen years ago) link
hmmm i wonder if "white" might mean different things in different contexts..........................
― rip dom passantino 3/5/09 never forget (max), Monday, 30 March 2009 20:59 (fifteen years ago) link
...................................................................
― cool app (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Monday, 30 March 2009 21:01 (fifteen years ago) link
xp: Whiney on rock music - And I think that could be part of the "guilt" factor - that it's something white people have appropriated.
― unexpected item in bagging area (sarahel), Monday, 30 March 2009 21:01 (fifteen years ago) link
I've never really felt any need to use the "word" white as a qualifier for music, because for me the word "unfunky" has pretty much the same meaning, without getting into dodgy racial essentialism. It's much easier to say "white musicians can be funky" or "black musicians can be unfunky" than "white musicians can be black" or "black musicians can be white". Of course, if you're talking about the demographics of particular music subculture rather than the content of the music, then it makes more sense to use words like "black" or "white".
― Tuomas, Monday, 30 March 2009 21:03 (fifteen years ago) link
― I'm Into that Japanese Pop-Funk (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 30 March 2009 21:04 (fifteen years ago) link
The bigger truth bomb though, sarahel: upwardly mobile 20-/30-something liberal, college-educated, self-aware whites who listen to indie rock and have "opinions" on shit like Stuff White People Like Dot Com and Vampire Weekend are more likely to post snarky bullshit on message boards that you and me and u_s steel read.
― Whitey G. Whitegarten (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, 30 March 2009 21:05 (fifteen years ago) link
what's a soundtrack for a post racial world?i'm thinking doobie bros.
― stank pony (M@tt He1ges0n), Monday, 30 March 2009 21:06 (fifteen years ago) link
elephant orchestras
― I'm Into that Japanese Pop-Funk (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 30 March 2009 21:08 (fifteen years ago) link
racist!
― stank pony (M@tt He1ges0n), Monday, 30 March 2009 21:10 (fifteen years ago) link
I heard a Vampire Weekend song once. It was nice, not my thing. I think my 24 year old cousin might like them.
― unexpected item in bagging area (sarahel), Monday, 30 March 2009 21:10 (fifteen years ago) link
wait guys i thought MIA was the soundtrack for a post racial world did i miss something
― i like to fart and i am crazy (gbx), Monday, 30 March 2009 21:13 (fifteen years ago) link
a post post post
― cool app (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Monday, 30 March 2009 21:20 (fifteen years ago) link
I was about to make a joke about DNA-ancestry tests on every scene: what if the Latino part of the metal fanbase is largely Iberian? Then all your 100% South- or East-Asian indie rockers may sweep up to win the Nobel Prize for Music Not Being "White."
― nabisco, Monday, 30 March 2009 21:25 (fifteen years ago) link
you let her brown skin fool you ;_;
― BADGES DON'T GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO WALTZ OFF WITH A BABY (HI DERE), Monday, 30 March 2009 21:26 (fifteen years ago) link
^^ that is a pointless joke, BTW -- I think I admitted years ago that I am mostly (and hopefully non-dickishly) just amused by this whole realm of conversation, hence starting the thread
― nabisco, Monday, 30 March 2009 21:27 (fifteen years ago) link
lol, xpost?
― BADGES DON'T GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO WALTZ OFF WITH A BABY (HI DERE), Monday, 30 March 2009 21:30 (fifteen years ago) link
haha yes, obv
― nabisco, Monday, 30 March 2009 21:33 (fifteen years ago) link
one thing that i always found "funny" was moving between ILM-world and college-world and seeing the different meanings white gets inflected with--"unfunky/safe" vs. "arrogant/oblivious"
― rip dom passantino 3/5/09 never forget (max), Monday, 30 March 2009 21:39 (fifteen years ago) link
still don't hear "dave eggers is too white for me" there's still a backlash against trendiness but white guilt never gets much play outside of music.
― bnw, Monday, 30 March 2009 21:41 (fifteen years ago) link
^^ white guilt gets a lot of play on college campuses.
― unexpected item in bagging area (sarahel), Monday, 30 March 2009 21:42 (fifteen years ago) link
Your life is whiteAnd I dont think I likeYou hanging around
― velko, Monday, 30 March 2009 21:45 (fifteen years ago) link
white guilt vs. gay dad
― unexpected item in bagging area (sarahel), Monday, 30 March 2009 22:46 (fifteen years ago) link
dad guilt
― just DO THE STANKY HOOS plain and steen (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 30 March 2009 22:48 (fifteen years ago) link
it's almost like people feel guilty...guilty of being white
― stank pony (M@tt He1ges0n), Monday, 30 March 2009 22:57 (fifteen years ago) link
Is that still going on? Given how much college costs these days, perhaps so.
(I'm old, I have no idea...)
― u s steel, Tuesday, 31 March 2009 04:14 (fifteen years ago) link
There is no such thing as White Music. Or, that is, there wouldn't have been had it not been for this album:http://g-images.amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/dc/fc/2b94124128a073a0d6a56010.L.jpg
― Geir Hongro, Tuesday, 31 March 2009 09:24 (fifteen years ago) link
Geir, you're so white
― turtles all the way down (Face of Wolf), Tuesday, 31 March 2009 09:57 (fifteen years ago) link
you probably think this thread is about you
― A bacon desert? Anything is possible. (stevie), Tuesday, 31 March 2009 10:14 (fifteen years ago) link
*high five*
― Sacco, Vanzetti, Passantino... (Tom D.), Tuesday, 31 March 2009 10:19 (fifteen years ago) link
I like to think that the character of "gangsta andy partridge" was an in-depth satire on the subject of race relations in musical experiences and knowledge.
― Blancmange Is Playing At My House (King Boy Pato), Tuesday, 31 March 2009 10:48 (fifteen years ago) link
But seriously, "nigga i pop a cap in yo fat finnish azz".
You do it all the time, and I post this to ILM and not ILE because it usually comes rolling out with regard to music: around here "white-boy _____" gets used to write off as much music as any other pejorative.
who was intended by 'you' above? I've never done it. some tossers might do it. I wouldn't write to black people 'you do xyz all the time'.
Isn't that you fetishize suffering as the true source of deep feeling, and consequently fetishize the self-expression of people who are expected to have suffered -- namely, black people and the working class?― nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 28 March 2003
lots of people suffer, in lots of ways, alas. personally I don't fetishize those particular sufferings at all, no. do you?
― the pinefox, Tuesday, 31 March 2009 11:55 (fifteen years ago) link