In Which Doctor Casino Listens to Classic Rock Classics for the First Time

Kind of a natural step from "Baba O'Riley" in terms of the synth arpeggio really being the foundation of the whole track - is there anything in their catalog in between the two that develops this evolutionary line?

i was wondering the same thing when i posted "eminence front" yesterday, and now it occurs to me that townshend was working through some of that evolution on the who are you album. the title track, most notably, is based on a loopy synth track. he plays with sequencers in various other ways on "sister disco," "guitar and pen" and other songs on that album. "eminence front" is kind of a natural progression from there, but it's a particularly big leap along that progression. "who are you" sounds something like a "who" song, more or less. "eminence front," not so much. and i think "eminence front" is leagues better.

and those two songs, "who are you" and "eminence front," are the only two post-quadrophenia who songs i hear on classic rock radio these days. "athena" does indeed seem to have disappeared. can't recall hearing "you better you bet" anytime in recent memory either.

I'm again reminded of Robert Palmer on Clues

now that you mention it, i'm imagining palmer singing "eminence front." and now i really really want to hear that.

i love your take on the lyric, dr. c. i've been listening to this song for years, and i confess i've never known what an "eminence front" was supposed to be, and i've never tried that hard to puzzle it out. i just figured townshend was scatting along with a groove, and i loved the groove so much that i didn't really care what exactly he was scatting about. you've just made me like the song even more.

you need not apologize for any of your reviews in this thread.

Wondering if I should check out Who Are You - seen a million copies, always thought it was supposed to be kind of a dud (maybe Allmusic influence here). I gave "Athena" a spin - pleasant and not unmemorable, but naggingly unnecessary - much closer to what I'd expect a dinosaur band to be trying really hard at tossing off in 1981. Agreed - I like them sounding less and less like "The Who." I actually heard "You Better You Bet" in a four-song rock block the other night, as noted on the main thread.

re: Palmer in his electronic phase - I went through a huge Clues thing a year or so ago, it's not a great album but the highs are high and I just kinda like this sound/period. Love "Woke Up Laughing," "Looking For Clues," "What Do You Care" (which plays in hindsight like one of his big hits played too fast) and of course "Johnny and Mary." Another possible reference point would be McCartney II. I don't think "Temporary Secretary" has its shit quite as together as "Eminence Front," and Paul is really incapable of tossing something off without telegraphing the off-tossing in a wince-worthy dad way, but I love that record and it arguably travels just as far from musical 'home.' Would love a comp that only collects flop sequencer-integrating singles by 60s acts.

Yeah, the Who layin' down a groove! Kind of a natural step from "Baba O'Riley" in terms of the synth arpeggio really being the foundation of the whole track - is there anything in their catalog in between the two that develops this evolutionary line?

...

So this is all post-Moon, I guess? I wonder what he would have done with this as a drummer, or if they'd have even gone this route with him still on board

Great take on this, Dr. C!

There's a few things on Who Are You, as fcc noted, that use the similar keyboard/looped/sequenced approach. But for me, the real precedent in their catalog, in tone and arrangement, is "The Relay," which also answers the "What would Moon do?" question:
http://youtu.be/yn8pKorgQ6Q

never liked who are you very much. it sounds like an album of very well recorded retreads, rejects and last gasps, by a band that knows these are retreads, rejects and last gasps.

clues and mccartney II are both albums i half love and wholly admire. the palmer single i've been obsessing on lately is "best of both worlds," which has nothing at all do to with this discussion, except that even in his rockiest days, he was thinking about beats differently than most other radio rockers. dfa records should put together that 60s-acts-doing-flop-sequencer-singles comp. i would buy.

Was Face Dances supposed to be a pun on lap dances?

According to the liner notes

The album's original title was simply The Who. Face Dances was a last minute substitution. Pete Townshend: "There was a girl that I knew and she was sitting looking in the mirror and she had a match between her teeth (which she was moving to a beat) while she was doing her eyes. I said to her 'face dances' and she just laughed. It was only later that someone pointed out to me that in the Dune trilogy there are a group of characters called 'face dancers,' sort of like chameleons; they can change completely for special purposes. That must have stuck in my head because I really loved the first one."

I'm not a Dune head, but I'm pretty sure they do not appear in the first book. I like the idea of Townshend trying to play down his fandom though. It's an Arrakis Front!

dr. c, you better get yourself a partner and go down to the concert or the local bar for our next entry, the bob seger salute to old time rock and roll that isn't, in fact, "old time rock and roll" and which has never, to my knowledge, caused tom cruise to dance in his underwear.

SONG #13: BOB SEGER & THE SILVER BULLET BAND "ROCK AND ROLL NEVER FORGETS"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZ_kYEDZVno

is there anything in their catalog in between the two that develops this evolutionary line?

I think it's more in Townshend's solo stuff, especially on Empty Glass. If I recall, there's more along these lines in the Scoop collections of demos, too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVfCDrb9NQw

Rock and Roll Never Forgets: Strong start. This kinda raspy voice and talking about the past, sorta plays the "Ooh La La" card, lay it on me, grizzled wise man! The band is bopping along happily; this kind of unambitious bar-band rock I can kinda get behind, as at least plausibly being fun to play. And if the promise is that rock and roll never forgets, it seems crucial that the band make rock worthwhile, but not stretch the envelope too much. This has a really good hook in the "Come back baby" - without that, none of this would be worth the ride, but with it, the whole thing is muuuuch more refreshing than "Old Time Rock and Roll," which just seems like a harangue by comparison.

Not quite as convinced by the break here, with the miscellaneous grunting, throat-clearing, and, I guess, ad-libbing by Bob. The celebratory horns are welcome though, and as always I dig the sheen on the multitracked vocals. I have to give this credit for not boring me, at four minutes long. Actually, that's probably the right length on principle: rock and roll should be two to three minutes, but this is an invocation to return to the fold - the eternal promise, re-extended to a straying lamb - and it needs a little more time to make its case. A Chick tract.

I also give it points for the strength of the concept... not just a generic rock and roll anthem as I sorta figured from the title, but actually going with the plot the title implies. You thought you were too old for rockin', but..you're not, and rock will still give you the things it always did. As a 32-year-old usually too ready with excuses not to get into my kicks, y'know, I dig that. Minus points for the story not getting much more fleshing out - I miss the "yeah, I'm getting away with this" lyricist of "Katmandu," though "all Chuck's children" is cute. Thumbs up! Really wasn't expecting to like this, but it's charmed me.

And that Townshend song is cool, bendy, thanks for the heads up. Not as badass as "Eminence Front" by any means but nice, and again, nice to hear him doing something different.

Man, this is on the same album as "Night Moves"? Is it all that good? Should I own a Bob Seger record?

YES

GODDAMMIT

YES

yes, that's a great album

and these are some great reviews. I'm really enjoying them (even when I don't agree)

Very rare is the artist who a. never topped his Christmas novelty song and b. is still pretty goddamn good on everything else.

Yes, very rare. Non-existent even.

Gene Autry is existent!

So's Bob Seger, ya dum dum! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3tJXb3mGT4&feature=kp

One of the great ILM revelations (for me) has been the discovery (or "columbusing," I guess) of early Seger. Doctor Casino, you really should check out Myonga Von Bontee's comp of his pre-Silver Bullet Band stuff that was inspired by, and then overwhelmed, this thread:

Bob Seger Reissue News

The boot got a writeup in The Guardian and placed 111th in that year's Pazz & Jop

http://www.theguardian.com/music/musicblog/2010/dec/29/bob-seger-detroit-rock

And it's currently available on Tyler's fantastic boot blog:

http://doomandgloomfromthetomb.tumblr.com/post/86612418452/never-mind-the-bullets-bob-seger-1966-1974

Seger's hit records are also very good. He's got a two-disc best-of that's definitely worth checking out.

xpost I knew you meant Seger, just happen to disagree

Do you disagree about the awesomeness of "Sock It To Me Santa" (in which you case you are objectively wrong) or about the quality of the rest of his career?

This has a really good hook in the "Come back baby" - without that, none of this would be worth the ride

this is key.

Man, this is on the same album as "Night Moves"? Is it all that good? Should I own a Bob Seger record?

yes! i love both night moves and the commercially even bigger followup, stranger in town. but since we're talking about night moves right now, let's pick up the needle and move it over about half an inch, and let you decide for yourself!

SONG #14: BOB SEGER & THE SILVER BULLET BAND "THE FIRE DOWN BELOW"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VX3_iT2z3Y

i love about half of myonga's early-seger comp, and find the other half a little cheesy. absolutely worth hearing.

really disappointed this Christmas song isn't a blatant "Santa Claus Never Forgets" a la "Run Run Rudolph" - but it is totally rockin'! And funny.

Thanks for the links and recommendations everyone. Realizing Seger actually had a totally legit career as a relatively old-time rock-and-roller makes all his pleas for the genre feel much more justifiable. Cracking open the MVB comp and holy shit, this is wild.

this rules

So's Bob Seger, ya dum dum!

(in which you case you are objectively wrong)

First of all, calm yourself down.

Second, Seger's career up to around 1982 is transcendent, and the "he never topped this early single" thing is hipster garbage talk

if the second half of that comp is cheesy then i would wager you are yet to experience real cheese

Been loving this thread (and want Sandy to start her own!) and it's an honour to be invoked herein :D

You are a national hero for assembling/distributing that comp.

otm

and want Sandy to start her own!

also otm

You are a national hero for assembling/distributing that comp.

SOMEBODY HAD TO (since Seger never will)

sorry y'all i'll be back in a bit, two plus two is on my mind and i got some thinkin to do

p.s. THANK YOU mvb! I never would have had the slightest idea about this stuff.

And I in turn thank tyler, scott, xhuxk etc. - basically everybody who had a hand in the thing. Everyone on that "reissue news" thread really.

You are a national hero for assembling/distributing that comp.

― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, July 8, 2014 9:50 AM (19 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

International hero. I seem to remember the return address on the disc he sent me was in Canada. I lost the disc, unfortunatley, after listening to it about 100 times.

B-b-but I spent a third of my life living on the Michigan border! (Three different towns, both peninsulas)

Multiple x-posts: careful who you're calling hipster, son.

am i about to be challenged to a duel?

Hang your Seger regressivism on any tree, geek.

Okay, before this explodes into a rockin' barroom brawl: Fire Down Below!

Yeah, this is all right. Maybe I'm predisposed to like it based on this other quality Seger, but it's sounding really good on headphones, nice solid recording of some nice solid playing. Not so into this 'list of people' kinda songwriting, adds up to a kind of bland scenario: they're different people, but they're alike! Seems like you could get to the same point with a little more interrelationships in the story, the banker could be casting shade at the poor man before he's taken over by the fire down below. What's this about again? Strippers? Or they're not all at the same place, I guess, some are in Berkeley and some are in Queens? Somewhere there's somebody ain't treatin' somebody right... wait, what's going on? I thought the fire was going to be about sex but is it actually wrath? What these guys have in common is not treating somebody right?

Wow, that was baffling. The one! two! three! into the solo has renewed my interest though. Another kinda sudden ending - my one lasting beef with Rock & Roll Never Forgets (now that I've listened to it like seven times in the last twelve hours) is how it just wanders away from the last chorus and ends without fanfare - surely if rock and roll never forgets, it'd show the 31-year-old sweet sixteen a better time than that. In this one it just seems like they ran out of energy, time or ideas - gimme a little more solo, a little more 'fire' at least.

Second listen, hoping I can follow the story a little better. The rock-n-rolling is probably strong enough to carry it just as an instrumental, with Seger's rasping as just another instrument, so in any case this isn't killing my interest in picking up the album. So, okay, there are street lights, here come these girls... what is this all about? Are they going to see a band? Why would all these lawyers and bankers be there? I feel like I'm lost in a pronoun here, the "it" that's never gonna stop. I do like that it happens in Moline, and I guess at this point I'm pretty sure this is about prostitution, an "oldest profession" kinda things... which makes the implications of bad treatment kinda grosser. At best I'd guess it's that the johns' wives aren't "treating them right" sexually but that's not very appealing as a narrative. Yeah, blame Mrs. Lockhorn... yeesh.

Thumbs up for the band, thumbs down for the lame lyric. "Fire down below" is too strong a phrase to get wasted on a lame cliche. I can't believe I'm saying this, but it really would have done well as another paean to the eternal appeal of rock: get all these horny men and women to the Bob Seger concert and let the music stoke the fires. Last verse could wrap up how the night ends up: Steve and Sally on the pinball table / Jack and Jill are in the john, etc. With a little rewrite here and there it could also have made a good Tums commercial.

chlamidya, iirc

:)

Another kinda sudden ending - my one lasting beef with Rock & Roll Never Forgets ... is how it just wanders away from the last chorus and ends without fanfare

this seems to have been a common feature of '60s and '70s rock, either through fades or other means, that doesn't seem to happen so much anymore, as if they realized they were about to run out of vinyl space and they better do something quick.

What these guys have in common is not treating somebody right?

yeah that's a weird, possibly creepy, possibly not, line, which makes things suddenly darker without offering much of a clue as to who, what or why. maybe a throwaway line. maybe not.

first time i ever heard "the fire down below" was at the boston garden, with 15,000 people screaming the title every time it came around. it was my first real rock concert, and it seemed unbelievably loud. it was the big singalong moment of the night. i had no idea what they were saying, but i wanted to join in. i asked my friend what everyone was saying and i couldn't hear him at all, so i started singing something like "she's got zfgfh gwyrwer unghf mirwoowgh!," and it felt good, and it seemed about right, so i kept singing it. i didn't find out the real words till the next morning.

Hahaha - "and it felt good, and it seemed about right, so i kept singing it" - have done this so many times and it's usually permanently affected my understanding of the song. A cover of "Boris the Spider" rendered it the haunting question: Who is the Spider?, "Gold Star For Robot Boy" was Can't stop the robot, boy!, etc.

The running-out-of-vinyl thing is pretty plausible tbh - I mean when it's a fade-out, presumably that suppresses a longer jam and makes the track the "right" length. (Or it just hides the moment when everybody screwed up or started arguing with each other, etc...)

I think the "not treating right" thing is creepy no matter what the plot is, but it's certainly way more creepy if we're to assume that the bankers, et al., are out there mistreating the prostitutes.

Possibly inspired Don or Glenn to write "Heartache Tonight"

HEARTACHE TONIGHT
GLENN: …and then they sold 12 million records, and everything changed! As Bob Dylan said, “They deceived me into thinking I had something to protect.” And that’s what happened with us. We made it, and it ate us. The Long Run became, indeed, the long run. It was a difficult record to make overall, but I loved “Heartache Tonight.” Whenever Bob Seger was in L.A., he always used to come over and visit me, and he’d visit Don, too, and play us stuff he was working on — and we would do the same. I seem to remember that I had the verse thing going on for “Heartache Tonight,” and I was showing it to Seger, and we were jammin’ — I think we were jammin’ on electric guitars at LaFontaine — and then he blurted out the chorus. That’s how “Heartache” started. Then Bob disappeared, and J.D., Don, and I finished that song up. No heavy lyrics — the song is more of a romp — and that’s what it was intended to be.