Hmm....we disagree. Singles aside, Manson sounds tentative on the debut, as if she realized how thin the ice was. What made V 2.0 such a triumph was hearing her equal the force of the band.
― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 4 February 2013 21:52 (eleven years ago) link
i would buy that she's more ~as one~ with the production on 2.0 but i hear no "tentativeness" at all on the debut
― lex pretend, Monday, 4 February 2013 21:53 (eleven years ago) link
'I Think I'm Paranoid'.
I don't like this band and never have.
― The Jupiter 8 (Turrican), Monday, 4 February 2013 21:53 (eleven years ago) link
"You Look So Fine" is maybe their finest song but not necessarily their finest single song, if that distinction makes sense.
The "#1 Crush" on the r&j soundtrack is actually a remix of the original which iirc was a b-side to "Vow".
― Tim F, Monday, 4 February 2013 21:53 (eleven years ago) link
i had no idea!
i've had to redownload "#1 crush" several times over the years and i've always ended up with the same one, lol
― lex pretend, Monday, 4 February 2013 21:55 (eleven years ago) link
What she's singing on those album tracks -- those vocal melodies -- aren't that compelling (bias: with exceptions, simmering melodramatic Garbage a la "#1 Crush" doesn't hold my attention)? It helps that she contributed far more to the songwriting on the second album.
― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 4 February 2013 21:56 (eleven years ago) link
the first album is "Plug in a female singer, any singer, the hungrier the better"
I need to listen to both of these again to make a proper evaluation.
― Tim F, Monday, 4 February 2013 22:00 (eleven years ago) link
first album poll is here Garbage - Garbage
― 乒乓, Monday, 4 February 2013 22:04 (eleven years ago) link
think alf is correct in saying that v2 is more like shirley and the garbages but personally the provocative juxtaposition with grunge formalism is exactly what i like about the first (although that's possibly something i treasure more in formative sentiment than i would do now)
― r|t|c, Monday, 4 February 2013 22:05 (eleven years ago) link
but the songs are better too as lex says
― r|t|c, Monday, 4 February 2013 22:06 (eleven years ago) link
"Only Happy When It Rains" is a helluva karaoke track, as some of you may know
― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 4 February 2013 22:08 (eleven years ago) link
hard to believe this is fixing to turn 15. Somewhere else on ilm I wrote a longish post detailing what a big deal this album was to myself at 15.
― Big Sambola & The Tailspinners (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 4 February 2013 22:12 (eleven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2IRcAWbm1c
it's funny, i can vividly recall watching exactly this and thinking "phwoar who is THAT" but now i see it's probably the worst karaoke rendition of all time, curse u youtube
― r|t|c, Monday, 4 February 2013 22:13 (eleven years ago) link
Voted "Temptation Waits" but I'd like to also remind everybody that "You Look So Fine" - and, "Milk" - are Lana Del Rey's whole career so far bettered in two songs.
― boxedjoy, Monday, 4 February 2013 23:03 (eleven years ago) link
excellent poll
― a permanent mental health break (difficult listening hour), Tuesday, 5 February 2013 02:43 (eleven years ago) link
A guy at my work is the biggest fan of a single band that I know, and that band is Garbage. He uses all his holiday to follow them around Europe on tour, runs a blog about Garbage collectible stuff. Also loves Placebo, Skunk Anansie and Suede. It's like he's in a perpetual 1998 timewarp.
― dog latin, Tuesday, 5 February 2013 10:11 (eleven years ago) link
"Special" is cool
― billstevejim, Tuesday, 5 February 2013 10:15 (eleven years ago) link
Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.
― System, Thursday, 7 February 2013 00:01 (eleven years ago) link
the EMPTINESSthe CRAZINESSsatisfy this LONELINESS
― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 7 February 2013 00:07 (eleven years ago) link
the trick is to keep voting, guys
a fffffffflasssssssssssssssssssh in the poll
― a permanent mental health break (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 7 February 2013 00:07 (eleven years ago) link
When they opened for U2 in 2001 they already sounded wan, but then they took off when Larry Mullen, Jr. took over on drums for "Only Happy When It Rains."
― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 7 February 2013 00:28 (eleven years ago) link
― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 7 February 2013 12:07 AM (13 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
This is a great song btw.
Was thinking more about the discussion upthread re Shirley on the debut vs the sequel.
I think Alf is right that Shirley owns the material on the second album more but I don't think this is always a force for good - like, you see more of her personality but that personality is often pretty shallow or perhaps rather (what's worse for some reason, although it shouldn't be) callow - thinking of stuff like "on a cruise to freak you out" in "When I Grow Up", or the "Somebody Told Me"-style random-one-liners-strung-together of "I Think I'm Paranoid" or basically all of "Medication" (least successful song here?).
Courtney adopted a pretty similar persona on Celebrity Skin but it works much better as a persona; even when she's dealing with very familiar-to-the-point-of-hackneyed tropes, she comes across as if she's lived them.
Whereas ironically Shirley comes across best on the second album when she's embodying a kind of impersonal rush ("Temptation Waits", "Hammering In My Head", "Push It", arguably "Sleep Together" but see below) or desirous siren/observer/narrator/temptress who gazes but remains first and foremost the object of the gaze(the chorus of "The Trick Is To Keep Breathing", all of "You Look So Fine", again arguably "Sleep Together" - hence this may be the secret key song to unlocking the second album's charms).
All of which feels like a continuation and enhancement of the kind of bewitching blankness she offered on the first album - effectively, she's best at selling stuff that isn't necessarily (i.e. doesn't need to be) by or about her.
― Tim F, Thursday, 7 February 2013 00:32 (eleven years ago) link
but then there's the middle eight in "Medication" -- "And still you call me co-dependent" with the synth accents acting as quotation marks around the last word.
― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 7 February 2013 00:33 (eleven years ago) link
btw her shallowness was so obvious that even I -- who voted this my favorite album of 1998 and still think it is -- knew they were done after this record.
― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 7 February 2013 00:34 (eleven years ago) link
That's one of the most irritating lines in the song though!
Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if she hadn't previously sung "please don't call me self-defending / you know it cuts me to the bone".
― Tim F, Thursday, 7 February 2013 00:39 (eleven years ago) link
like, you see more of her personality but that personality is often pretty shallow or perhaps rather (what's worse for some reason, although it shouldn't be) callow
and this is the entire problem with the third record
― emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Thursday, 7 February 2013 01:42 (eleven years ago) link
incidentally i listened to the first one the other day and i think i prefer this one now, almost willing to argue that the songs are stronger on this one but maybe i just find the hooks more commanding and machine-perfected
― emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Thursday, 7 February 2013 01:44 (eleven years ago) link
like "hammering in my head" is kind of a driving mess but the chorus is so gorgeous, sucks all the air out of the room, lands these exact syllables
― emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Thursday, 7 February 2013 01:47 (eleven years ago) link
I can never remember which part of "hammering in my head" is actually the chorus without listening to it - and that's a compliment not a criticism.
My favourite bit of the song is "YOU SHOULD BE SLEEPING ALONE / TELL ME WHAT YOU'RE DREAMING OF"
― Tim F, Thursday, 7 February 2013 01:51 (eleven years ago) link
hammering in my head is above choruses
― a permanent mental health break (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 7 February 2013 01:53 (eleven years ago) link
"Temptation Waits" and "Medication" leave me cold but no track falls below the ideal conception of late nineties machine-tooled verse-chorus-verse, complete with charismatic singer.
― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 7 February 2013 01:54 (eleven years ago) link
let me play lex for a moment: it's impossible to imagine a scenario in which Garbage is better than Version 2.0. It ends with that boring ballad with a Beatles mellotron, and before that it's got classic hits-plus-filler.
― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 7 February 2013 02:05 (eleven years ago) link
yeah it's not even remotely close.
― a permanent mental health break (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 7 February 2013 02:08 (eleven years ago) link
supervixen, vow, only happy, stupid girl, done. and then the album of the decade.
on the third one i like "can't cry these tears", "cherry lips", and the Slow Closer v3.0.
― a permanent mental health break (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 7 February 2013 02:10 (eleven years ago) link
like Joan of Arc coming back for MORE
― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 7 February 2013 02:12 (eleven years ago) link
i voted for "hammering in my head" but the chorus of "temptation waits" is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything
― emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Thursday, 7 February 2013 02:20 (eleven years ago) link
i did too but it was totally arbitrary really; could have been any one of like five.
― a permanent mental health break (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 7 February 2013 02:23 (eleven years ago) link
i just love that chorus so much. a proper burst upward from the verses, an adrenaline fulfillment, and then that nice melodic shift during the lyric "i'm like an addict coming at you for a little more," like the song twisting away from you slyly
― emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Thursday, 7 February 2013 02:28 (eleven years ago) link
btw 'don't forget your ventolin'
daaaaaaaaaamn
― 乒乓, Thursday, 7 February 2013 02:28 (eleven years ago) link
that was what put it over for me
― a permanent mental health break (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 7 February 2013 02:29 (eleven years ago) link
and yeah otm on "a little more"
stuff about shirley being way more important on v2 really borne out by "hammering" which if i'm remembering it right wouldn't even actually exist without her; it'd just be a clatter.
― a permanent mental health break (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 7 February 2013 02:30 (eleven years ago) link
or yknow. a lot closer to one.
― a permanent mental health break (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 7 February 2013 02:31 (eleven years ago) link
as a sufferer of childhood asthma that line destroys me
― 乒乓, Thursday, 7 February 2013 02:33 (eleven years ago) link
(xp which doesn't mean anything bad about the rest of them; it is ultracool how the song is designed to just be this whirling mess just barely held together by her gravity. i read an interview or something when i was in high school where they talked about how "hammering" had SOME VERY LARGE NUMBER of tracks, and it was the first time i'd ever read anything about "tracks" but it made perfect sense.)
― a permanent mental health break (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 7 February 2013 02:34 (eleven years ago) link
rhymed w "don't forget i meant to win" no less
― a permanent mental health break (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 7 February 2013 02:36 (eleven years ago) link
Too old to serve as a gateway for me, Version 2.0 no doubt served this purpose. "Hammering in My Head" is Fisher Price Patti Smith, with the primary colors, flashing lights, and cool noises left in. Chrissie Hynde and the Beach Boys we already know.
― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 7 February 2013 02:37 (eleven years ago) link
every song is shrinkwrapped
― emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Monday, February 4, 2013 9:16 AM bookmarkflaglink
only learned about this today, perfect:
https://i.imgur.com/5frr6yY.jpg
― difficult listening hour, Saturday, 23 September 2023 02:17 (eight months ago) link
is that a shrinkwrapped 3" cd single on a card
― I? not I! He! He! HIM! (akm), Saturday, 23 September 2023 02:47 (eight months ago) link
that’s what it is
― difficult listening hour, Saturday, 23 September 2023 04:26 (eight months ago) link
well, in a blister pack.
― difficult listening hour, Saturday, 23 September 2023 04:31 (eight months ago) link
I love this thread
― Tim F, Saturday, 23 September 2023 05:20 (eight months ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKAUQCQhkbc
― The Triumphant Return of Bernard & Stubbs (Raymond Cummings), Saturday, 23 September 2023 22:06 (eight months ago) link
I understand at last: the Pumpkins leave me cold because Garbage's plastic gothic overstatement exists.
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn),
― hat trick of trashiness (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 23 September 2023 22:28 (eight months ago) link
In a few weeks it'll be the 25th anniversary of the one time I saw them live, the first show I saw on my own. Girls Against Boys opened. Between sets I unexpectedly ran into a female classmate who was there with her Mom. Come Monday morning at school, she must have told her friends that I was at the show, because I had girls coming up to my locker the rest of the day asking about it and telling me how cool they felt Shirley was.
― an icon of a worried-looking, long-haired, bespectacled man (C. Grisso/McCain), Saturday, 23 September 2023 22:56 (eight months ago) link
"stupid girl" is one of those cases of "obvious sample makes song kind of surprising forever" re: the "train in vain" drums
― emo canon in twee major (BradNelson)
Huh? TIL
it is quite obvious when you know it but never connected the two of them before.
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Saturday, 23 September 2023 22:57 (eight months ago) link
The Parallel Lines of the nineties.
― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, February 4, 2013 2:23 PM (ten years ago)
otm
― hat trick of trashiness (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 23 September 2023 23:13 (eight months ago) link
Supposedly they had to put up some serious $$$ for that Clash sample (they didn't name names in interviews, only alluding to dealing with a 'seminal band' who were surprisingly uncool about clearing samples, and they ultimately had to meet all of that group's demands to secure it).
― an icon of a worried-looking, long-haired, bespectacled man (C. Grisso/McCain), Saturday, 23 September 2023 23:14 (eight months ago) link
“… but you didn’t charge Big Audio Dynamite anything!”
― Tim F, Saturday, 23 September 2023 23:31 (eight months ago) link
Weird that they’d be fixed on using the sample, they could have brought a drummer and copy it and it would’ve been difficult to prove it as a rip-off. It’s a fairly common drum groove.
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Sunday, 24 September 2023 01:08 (eight months ago) link
"the trick is to keep breathing" was my mantra in high school partially thanks to this album.
― Make the chats AI (Neanderthal), Sunday, 24 September 2023 01:18 (eight months ago) link
Apparently there’s also an REM sample but I’m not noticing it.
It’s been a while since I listened to it, I just noticed there’s also some creepy noises that sound like digital pig grunts.
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Sunday, 24 September 2023 01:21 (eight months ago) link
There was a Todd Terry remix of "Stupid Girl" that used the opening of "Orange Crush"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkzKNAySas8-
― an icon of a worried-looking, long-haired, bespectacled man (C. Grisso/McCain), Sunday, 24 September 2023 01:25 (eight months ago) link
Supposedly the original one also has the “orange crush” sample at 1:23
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Sunday, 24 September 2023 01:27 (eight months ago) link
I remember Beautiful Garbage was a bit of a letdown after the brilliant first two albums. Might need to give it a second chance because the first two are really good and the singles are some of the best of the decade.
Even non album singles for soundtracks like Crush #1 and the james bond song are the best things on those movies.
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Sunday, 24 September 2023 01:36 (eight months ago) link
It's so badly sequenced.
― hat trick of trashiness (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 24 September 2023 01:39 (eight months ago) link
Version 2.0 is probably the album I listened to the most in ‘98. Just ALL THE TIME.
― The Triumphant Return of Bernard & Stubbs (Raymond Cummings), Sunday, 24 September 2023 02:39 (eight months ago) link
Me too. I'm pretty sure I wore out the plastic nub in the jewelbox tray by '99.
― an icon of a worried-looking, long-haired, bespectacled man (C. Grisso/McCain), Sunday, 24 September 2023 05:33 (eight months ago) link
It’s one of the first 10 albums I bought based on how impressed I was by “push it” when I was 12. It sounded like no other pop song I had heard in my life and it was glorious
Debut album has aged better though.
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Sunday, 24 September 2023 06:32 (eight months ago) link
Debut album I was obsessed with. 2.0 I don't like quite as much but I remember getting excited the first day I heard "Push It" drop on radio.
And it's a great album that I played non stop regardless. Mad consistent.
Used to be the album I would put on at bedtime.
― Make the chats AI (Neanderthal), Sunday, 24 September 2023 14:27 (eight months ago) link
Don't think there's a song on here I love as much as "Vow", my fav Garbage tune, but "Special"'s my high water mark, that chorus.
― Make the chats AI (Neanderthal), Sunday, 24 September 2023 14:30 (eight months ago) link
i want a whole album that sounds like that todd terry remix
― ufo, Sunday, 24 September 2023 14:35 (eight months ago) link
"I Think I'm Paranoid" and "Dumb" are here, ready for you to ask'em out.
― hat trick of trashiness (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 24 September 2023 14:37 (eight months ago) link
well i never.i had never noticed the clash sample before.the todd terry remix was on the second cd of absolute.
― mark e, Sunday, 24 September 2023 17:42 (eight months ago) link
i mean fuck. i seriously can't get enough of some of these songs.
― Swen, Tuesday, 27 February 2024 06:36 (three months ago) link
i was so baked listening to i think i'm paranoid in my gf's car at the time and paranoid af tbh
― Swen, Tuesday, 27 February 2024 06:40 (three months ago) link