― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Saturday, 21 May 2005 14:57 (nineteen years ago) link
― RJG (RJG), Saturday, 21 May 2005 15:13 (nineteen years ago) link
Oh, Anthony is so funny! How To Rock Like A Black Feminist Critic to thread. (And I actually think the jump to country is a lot less hard than the jump to indie.) Even if every black fan of let's say Arcade Fire went to a show at one time, there's still way less of them than the white fans due to sheer numbers. What are there like 10 million black people compared to 100 million (okay, exaggerating) white people?
xpost I think part of that, Geir, is social indoctrination. There's socially coded "black things" and "white things." "Black things" when I was growing up in NYC: Hot 97/Kiss FM/WBLS, Video Music Box/Yo MTV Raps/BET, Right On/Honey/Vibe magazines, Martin/Def Comedy Jam/Jamie Foxx Show. "White things": Z-100/K-Rock/WPLJ, 120 Minutes, Rolling Stone/Seventeen/People, Friends/SNL/Home Improvement. Of course because those are mass media things, people are crossing all the time. In the "black community," the general reaction to black people liking "white shit" is "you're weird" so it inhibits people that compared to white people liking black stuff where it's like "whoa, you're so cool and forward-thinking!"
― Candicissima (candicissima), Saturday, 21 May 2005 15:21 (nineteen years ago) link
― Tokyo Ghost Stories (Tokyo Ghost Stories), Monday, 23 May 2005 02:15 (nineteen years ago) link
― The Emancipation of Baaderonixx (KERERU 4 LIFE!) (Fabfunk), Monday, 23 May 2005 08:35 (nineteen years ago) link
― Nic de Teardrop (Nicholas), Monday, 23 May 2005 08:49 (nineteen years ago) link
Sure. I mean, I count understand that they prefer listening to Banghra or Bollywood. But why hip-hop? What is it in their cultural background that would make the particularly likely to enjoy American hip-hop? The fact that some American rappers are Muslims?
― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 23 May 2005 10:24 (nineteen years ago) link
Geir, people of all colors and religions all over the world are fascinated with and enjoy hip-hop. You can hear rapping in countless different languages.
― steve-k, Monday, 23 May 2005 11:20 (nineteen years ago) link
― Mike Dixn (Mike Dixon), Monday, 23 May 2005 11:26 (nineteen years ago) link
― Mike Dixn (Mike Dixon), Monday, 23 May 2005 11:27 (nineteen years ago) link
― The Emancipation of Baaderonixx (KERERU 4 LIFE!) (Fabfunk), Monday, 23 May 2005 11:27 (nineteen years ago) link
― Mike Dixn (Mike Dixon), Monday, 23 May 2005 11:29 (nineteen years ago) link
But a lot of rock listeners -- indie listeners, in particular -- actively fret about about black people in particular not being as involved in the indie scene. My question was: why do they fret about that, and not, say, the fact that just as few (or fewer) black people are interested in Christian country?
Dances around the dynamic that I think is at work.
Indie fans look around at an indie show and see only white faces and they do fret, yes. But I will submit that their fretting is exactly NOT because of nabisco's conjectures (that the indie fretter "thinks of punk-lineage indie rock as 'better' or 'smarter' than everything else" or that "non-white races in particular are 'lesser' or 'dumber'").
I think the problem is precisely the opposite: white indie fans view the monochrome audiences at their favorite band's show as an indictment of their taste. Conversely, a mixed audience would be an endorsement of their taste. Partly because everyone secretly believes that if black people like it, then it must be funky, and funky is good.
The issue is twofold: on the one hand, these corny indie fuxorz have a nagging insecurity and a sense of inferiority in this one narrow area: the authenticity of how they experience musical enjoyment. Cf. the widespread generalization that the white folks have no soul, no rhythm, cannot dance, etc. Soul, rhythm, and dancing (associated with black musical enjoyment) are signs that you are enjoying the music on a more visceral and possibly more "real" level, vs. a more cerebral form of enjoyment that is associated with whiteness and lameness and general lack of "rock" virtues, which are supposed to center on the hips more than the head.
The second part of the equation has to do with indie fans being of an age and class and temperament where diversity is presented as an undisputed value. Geir just recently mentioned the
kind of people are considerably more likely to have a tolerant attitude towards black people and black culture than the stereotype redneck does
...translation: indie fans like to think of themselves as multiculturally inclined antiracists. Progressive values, socially liberal politics, a bohemian embrace of "alternative" culture. Let us leave aside for the moment whether they're right about themselves or not; what we're talking about is self-image. If an experience is as lily-white as your average Bright Eyes concert (say) then they worry that they're implicated in the segregation somehow, which runs counter to their self-image.
Hence the anxiety: it is driven more by insecurity than by arrogance.
― The Mad Puffin, Monday, 23 May 2005 12:56 (nineteen years ago) link
How if there is no segregation other than the one chosen by the opressed ones themselves?
― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 23 May 2005 17:57 (nineteen years ago) link
Sure, but why doesn't the same apply to indie, powerpop or prog?
― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 23 May 2005 18:00 (nineteen years ago) link
― The Sensational Sulk (sexyDancer), Monday, 23 May 2005 18:05 (nineteen years ago) link
The flaw here is, indie fans tend not to like disco or mainstream R&B, not because it is "black", but because it is "corporate" and "manufactured", that is, it is a production of capitalism rather than the real thing.
― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 23 May 2005 18:55 (nineteen years ago) link
When he or she looks around him or herself at a Decemberists / Long Winters / Death Cab for Cutie concert and sees a lily-white audience, the suspicion is that they've attached themselves to an unfunky and un"real" phenomenon.
The feeling doesn't necessarily extend to the liking of all music that black folks are said to like. Black folks liking indie music would reflect well on indie music--but it isn't a sufficient condition for coolness.
― The Mad Puffin, Monday, 23 May 2005 19:22 (nineteen years ago) link
― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 23 May 2005 19:30 (nineteen years ago) link
― The Mad Puffin, Monday, 23 May 2005 19:39 (nineteen years ago) link
― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 23 May 2005 19:41 (nineteen years ago) link
― nabiscothingy, Monday, 23 May 2005 20:55 (nineteen years ago) link
― Ken L (Ken L), Monday, 23 May 2005 20:56 (nineteen years ago) link
― ()ops (()()ps), Monday, 23 May 2005 21:30 (nineteen years ago) link
― The Mad Puffin, Tuesday, 24 May 2005 12:38 (nineteen years ago) link
OFRA HAZA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
― JTS, Friday, 27 May 2005 14:08 (nineteen years ago) link
― Mervin Heinz, Wednesday, 22 June 2005 18:57 (eighteen years ago) link
― joseph cotten (joseph cotten), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 19:02 (eighteen years ago) link
― John Justen (johnjusten), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 19:09 (eighteen years ago) link
Next up: Why is ILM predominantly right-handed?
― The Mad Puffin, Wednesday, 22 June 2005 19:11 (eighteen years ago) link
― Candicissima (candicissima), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 19:12 (eighteen years ago) link
― RS (Catalino) LaRue (RSLaRue), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 19:16 (eighteen years ago) link
― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 19:18 (eighteen years ago) link
― John Justen (johnjusten), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 20:37 (eighteen years ago) link
It is a straight up Ali G send-up, or no?
― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 20:45 (eighteen years ago) link
I blame it on their repressive Catholic upbringing.
― RS (Catalino) LaRue (RSLaRue), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 21:42 (eighteen years ago) link
http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/features/story/0,,1695373,00.html
― Ima Hogg, Sunday, 29 January 2006 21:55 (eighteen years ago) link
the UK's black music is back with a vengeance - does this mean the death of Indie boys and their guitars scene?
Man those indie boys and guitars are becoming a rare breed eh? Where did they all go? Talk about oppression!!
/heavy sarcasm
― fandango (fandango), Sunday, 29 January 2006 23:36 (eighteen years ago) link
lol UrbanDictionary
― UART variations (ex machina), Sunday, 28 January 2007 20:09 (seventeen years ago) link
― Hoosteen (Hoosteen), Sunday, 28 January 2007 20:37 (seventeen years ago) link
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Sunday, 28 January 2007 20:37 (seventeen years ago) link
― critique de la vie quotidienne (modestmickey), Sunday, 28 January 2007 22:21 (seventeen years ago) link
― and what (ooo), Sunday, 28 January 2007 22:58 (seventeen years ago) link
The best music on earth.
Pinkerton rocks!by phrubee Nov 20, 2003 email it
― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Sunday, 28 January 2007 23:03 (seventeen years ago) link
― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Sunday, 28 January 2007 23:04 (seventeen years ago) link
Black Punk Time: Blacks in Punk, New Wave and Hardcore 1976-1983 (Part 4) By James Porter and Jake Austen(From Roctober #32, 2002)
― curmudgeon (DC Steve), Tuesday, 30 January 2007 05:16 (seventeen years ago) link
― UART variations (ex machina), Tuesday, 30 January 2007 16:35 (seventeen years ago) link
http://blogs.chicagoreader.com/post-no-bills/2007/01/29/move-over-buppies-blipsters-are-coming/
― factcheckr (factcheckr), Tuesday, 30 January 2007 19:31 (seventeen years ago) link