The shocking scoop - sometimes black people listen to indie!

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more fantastic music journalism from the NYT
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/28/fashion/28Blipsters.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

WHEN Douglas Martin first saw the video for Nirvana’s “Smells Like Teen Spirit” as a teenager in High Point, N.C., “it blew my mind,” he said. Like many young people who soothe their angst with the balm of alternative rock, Mr. Martin was happy to discover music he enjoyed and a subculture where he belonged.

Except, as it turned out, he didn’t really belong, because he is black.

“For a long time I was laughed at by both black and white people about being the only black person in my school that liked Nirvana and bands like that,” said Mr. Martin, now 23, who lives in Seattle, where he is recording a folk-rock album.

But 40 years after black musicians laid down the foundations of rock, then largely left the genre to white artists and fans, some blacks are again looking to reconnect with the rock music scene.

― critique de la vie quotidienne (modestmickey), Saturday, 27 January 2007 08:25 (seventeen years ago) link

one thing i learned from the Internet: America is pretty fucked up about race.

― Good Dog (Good Dog), Saturday, 27 January 2007 08:34 (seventeen years ago) link

modest mickey + race issues = ILX GOLD

30,000 messages by monday

― Confounded (Confounded), Saturday, 27 January 2007 08:36 (seventeen years ago) link

my fingers are crossed

― critique de la vie quotidienne (modestmickey), Saturday, 27 January 2007 08:39 (seventeen years ago) link

― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Saturday, 27 January 2007 08:40 (seventeen years ago) link

my fingers are crossed

they always are

― Confounded (Confounded), Saturday, 27 January 2007 08:40 (seventeen years ago) link

S & D: some blacks are again looking to reconnect with the rock music scene.

where can i find some of these blacks? any recommendations?

― critique de la vie quotidienne (modestmickey), Saturday, 27 January 2007 08:41 (seventeen years ago) link

weird.
but still, its best that you chill.

― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Saturday, 27 January 2007 08:46 (seventeen years ago) link

mickey, are you gay? the voice i imagine whenever i read what you write has this cadence + lisp to it. "the schocking scoop." if you are gay, no problem, as i am gay too and i understand.

― plan b: videodrome (fauxhemian), Saturday, 27 January 2007 08:56 (seventeen years ago) link

The shocking scoop - sometimes black people listen to indie!

UNTRUTH!

― The Reverend Rodney J. Greene sings you a dirge (R. J. Greene), Saturday, 27 January 2007 09:10 (seventeen years ago) link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIUNr_aMazc

― PRKLTR (flezaffe), Saturday, 27 January 2007 09:12 (seventeen years ago) link

That article gave me a hernia.

― The Reverend Rodney J. Greene sings you a dirge (R. J. Greene), Saturday, 27 January 2007 09:22 (seventeen years ago) link

Why does black people never want to rock?

― jimbo (electricsound), Saturday, 27 January 2007 09:29 (seventeen years ago) link

Next week: some Indian people listen to black music. Stay tuned!

― StanM (StanM), Saturday, 27 January 2007 09:35 (seventeen years ago) link

What the article didn't tell you is that Kurt Cobain would have already been dead (and "Smells Like Teen Spirit" already an oldie) by the time Douglas Martin would have been in high school. (He's 23 now, right? Were high school kids making a BFD of Nirvana in the late '90s and early 2000's?)

― Rev. Hoodoo (Rev. Hoodoo), Saturday, 27 January 2007 09:37 (seventeen years ago) link

The term "blipster" is the dumbest thing I've read in a while.

― paid in cigarettes (paid in cigarettes), Saturday, 27 January 2007 09:42 (seventeen years ago) link

"What the article didn't tell you is that Kurt Cobain would have already been dead (and "Smells Like Teen Spirit" already an oldie) by the time Douglas Martin would have been in high school. (He's 23 now, right? Were high school kids making a BFD of Nirvana in the late '90s and early 2000's?)"

Yes, somewhat sadly

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Saturday, 27 January 2007 10:10 (seventeen years ago) link

I wish we could get to the point that some black guy liking Nirvana wouldn't be front page news, or even anything to think about. Big deal. People like Nirvana and they come in all different stripes and genders and nationalities or religions or whatever: who gives a shit? Does every black person have to be black BEFORE they are a person? I don't get it. What is there worth calling attention to here? Do racist stories sell more papers? I bet they do.

― Lick The Strobelight Lollipops (Bimble...), Saturday, 27 January 2007 10:21 (seventeen years ago) link

I mean really you know - "OMG HE LIKES NIRVANA AND HE'S BLACK" GASP! UNTHINKABLE RIGHT? Give me a fucking break.

― Lick The Strobelight Lollipops (Bimble...), Saturday, 27 January 2007 10:24 (seventeen years ago) link

BFD? Big Fucking Deal?

That's the only thing I wanna know, for the rest I Don't Fucking Care (DFC).

― Nathalie (stevie nixed), Saturday, 27 January 2007 10:27 (seventeen years ago) link

bfd is a virtual drum instrument

― jimbo (electricsound), Saturday, 27 January 2007 13:27 (seventeen years ago) link

There is even a new word for black fans of indie rock: “blipster,” which was added to UrbanDictionary .com last summer, defined as “a person who is black and also can be stereotyped by appearance, musical taste, and/or social scene as a hipster.”

So wait, you have to listen to indie rock in order to be a hipster? That means I'm almost safe from being labeled that way.

If there were a big trend of rock becoming more popular with black listeners, I think that would be news of some sort. I certainly don't notice a whole lot of that around me in Philadelphia. My problem with the story is less that some trend like that be treated as news than that I am not convinced there is such a large scale shift going on.

People like Nirvana and they come in all different stripes and genders and nationalities or religions or whatever: who gives a shit? Does every black person have to be black BEFORE they are a person? I don't get it. What is there worth calling attention to here?

It may seem backward to point out, but there are broad cultural differences between different groups, often along racial lines.

― R_S (RSLaRue), Saturday, 27 January 2007 14:26 (seventeen years ago) link

PRINTER-FRIENDLY FORMAT SPONSORED BY http://graphics10.nytimes.com/ads/fox/sponsorship/borat_88x31.gif

― R_S (RSLaRue), Saturday, 27 January 2007 14:28 (seventeen years ago) link

Except, as it turned out, he didn’t really belong, because he is black.

lol

Mr. Martin, now 23, who lives in Seattle, where he is recording a folk-rock album.

rofl

― The Brainwasher (Twilight), Saturday, 27 January 2007 14:30 (seventeen years ago) link

"someone is gonna get hurt."

http://www.smother.net/interviews/images/oxbow.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 27 January 2007 14:34 (seventeen years ago) link

haha man eugene scared me so much onstage but then i went and talked with him and he was the sweetest guy!

oxbow was playing this noise/whatever fest in st paul and my friend gave him a ride from the airport, eugene said he was going to be in an orgy in SF when he got back.

― M@tt He1g3s0n: oh u mad cuz im stylin on u (Matt Helgeson), Saturday, 27 January 2007 15:20 (seventeen years ago) link

that's like when i talked to yow after a particularly insane jesus lizard show where he spent half the show trying to climb the ceiling and kick out the lights. he was the most humble sweetest nicest guy in the world. he blew my mind.

― scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 27 January 2007 15:31 (seventeen years ago) link

"there are broad cultural differences between different groups, often along racial lines." you think?

― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Saturday, 27 January 2007 16:39 (seventeen years ago) link

Uh yeah, stating the obvious since Bimble seemed to think that there was something odd about looking at what people listen to along racial or ethnic lines.

― R_S (RSLaRue), Saturday, 27 January 2007 16:45 (seventeen years ago) link

no, i think it is curiously both obvious and that there is also a need to state it. sorry, all of that wasn't implicit in my reply.

― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Saturday, 27 January 2007 16:56 (seventeen years ago) link

When white people dabble in black music, it's their right.
When black people dabble in white music, it's a curiosity.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Saturday, 27 January 2007 16:58 (seventeen years ago) link

mickey, are you gay? the voice i imagine whenever i read what you write has this cadence + lisp to it. "the schocking scoop." if you are gay, no problem, as i am gay too and i understand.

-- plan b: videodrome (struggi...) (webmail), January 26th, 2007. (fauxhemian)

nah dude, i'm heterosexual. i do pretty good gay lisp imitation though.

― critique de la vie quotidienne (modestmickey), Saturday, 27 January 2007 16:59 (seventeen years ago) link

Were high school kids making a BFD of Nirvana in the late '90s and early 2000's?

Srsly, the overweight kid with the head-hung-over-acoustic Cobain tee was a staple at my high school, as was the lithe drama student with the Cobain-geeked-up-and-wide-eyed tee.

― Hoosteen (Hoosteen), Saturday, 27 January 2007 17:03 (seventeen years ago) link

hot damn! now I've got a topic for next year's EMP conference

― m coleman (lovebug starski), Saturday, 27 January 2007 17:08 (seventeen years ago) link

the question is, can a black person who listens to rock be a virgin?

― critique de la vie quotidienne (modestmickey), Saturday, 27 January 2007 17:09 (seventeen years ago) link

would that be normal?

― critique de la vie quotidienne (modestmickey), Saturday, 27 January 2007 17:10 (seventeen years ago) link

...she taught at the Willie Mae Rock Camp for Girls, where kids learn to play punk-rock standards.

Ok Junior, you are going to practice until you get the riff to Shake Appeal down or there will be no Internet after dinner!

― Disco Nihilist (mjt), Saturday, 27 January 2007 18:12 (seventeen years ago) link

I'm glad someone is preserving this precious cultural inheritance.

― R_S (RSLaRue), Saturday, 27 January 2007 18:13 (seventeen years ago) link

THANK GOD SOMEONE HAD THE COURAGE TO ADDRESS THIS TOPIC ON ILX FOR THE THIRD/FOURTH/OR FIFTH TIME.

― John Justen waitin to get his W2s back so he can file his tax and ball out (john, Saturday, 27 January 2007 18:41 (seventeen years ago) link

someone has to be brave!

― critique de la vie quotidienne (modestmickey), Saturday, 27 January 2007 18:45 (seventeen years ago) link

WE SHOULD FIND THAT PERSON THEN.

― John Justen waitin to get his W2s back so he can file his tax and ball out (john, Saturday, 27 January 2007 18:46 (seventeen years ago) link

btw

WHEN Douglas Martin first saw the video for Nirvana’s “Smells Like Teen Spirit” as a teenager in High Point, N.C. ...

i live pretty near high point. it doesn't matter what music dude may have listened to. black people don't fit in there.

― critique de la vie quotidienne (modestmickey), Saturday, 27 January 2007 18:49 (seventeen years ago) link

worst case scenario in this so-called black rock revival = corey glover makes a comeback

― timmy tannin (pompous), Saturday, 27 January 2007 19:04 (seventeen years ago) link

i live pretty near high point. it doesn't matter what music dude may have listened to. black people don't fit in there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Point%2C_NC#Demographics

As of the censusGR2 of 2000, there were 85,839 people, 33,519 households, and 22,524 families residing in the city. The population density was 675.7/km² (1,750.1/mi²). There were 35,952 housing units at an average density of 283.0/km² (733.0/mi²). The racial makeup of the city was 60.56% White, 31.77% African American, 0.46% Native American, 3.35% Asian, 0.02% Pacific Islander, 2.27% from other races, and 1.57% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 4.89% of the population.

So what do you mean by that, exactly?

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Saturday, 27 January 2007 19:11 (seventeen years ago) link

well shit. i must have missed some parts of town last time i was there.

freshman year of college i had a roommate from high point. i remember him talking about how there were like 3 black people in his high school. he was also openly, flaming gay, and of course he was the only one in his school like that.

― critique de la vie quotidienne (modestmickey), Saturday, 27 January 2007 19:14 (seventeen years ago) link

"worst case scenario in this so-called black rock revival = corey glover makes a comeback"

well, living colour's comeback already came & went, but their reunion album of the 2000's is far better than that awful solo CD that Glover did in the 90's

― Rev. Hoodoo (Rev. Hoodoo), Saturday, 27 January 2007 19:24 (seventeen years ago) link

i fear the wetsuit

― timmy tannin (pompous), Saturday, 27 January 2007 19:27 (seventeen years ago) link

"someone has to be brave!"

it's going to be a brave new year.
i can feel it.

― edde (edde), Saturday, 27 January 2007 19:56 (seventeen years ago) link

why does nobody this ouraged about the 100000000x articles every week going OMG WTF LOL WHITE KIDS LIKE RAP!!!!!

― and what (ooo), Saturday, 27 January 2007 20:32 (seventeen years ago) link

http://s2.supload.com/files/default/RTN_Raconte04401.jpg

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Saturday, 27 January 2007 20:35 (seventeen years ago) link

Skipping 52 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

Your dad knowing who Veldt, Fishbone and Loving Color are = classic

― Mark (MarkR), Sunday, 28 January 2007 18:46 (seventeen years ago) link

they did sailin' on by bad brains and really rocked it.

They were great with covers! The Biscuits EP was a favorite of mine.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Sunday, 28 January 2007 18:54 (seventeen years ago) link

"that one person said that Living Colour may have been too hip for the Lollapalooza set"

whoops...that one person implied that Living Colour were UNhip for the alt-rockers, my fault

― Rev. Hoodoo (Rev. Hoodoo), Sunday, 28 January 2007 19:30 (seventeen years ago) link

Robert Fripp loves Living Colour

― Marmot (marmotwolof), Sunday, 28 January 2007 20:18 (seventeen years ago) link

dude when fishbone were on lollapaloozaaaa they were in their super heavy period which i still maintain kicks the shit out of any black metal, girndcore or death metal band. search = servitude!!!!!!!

― chaki (chaki), Sunday, 28 January 2007 21:50 (seventeen years ago) link

i havent read this whole thread but fwiw angelo from fishbone still maintains that mtv and radio didnt play them alot and their album sales sunk cuz they were black and playing rock.

― chaki (chaki), Sunday, 28 January 2007 21:52 (seventeen years ago) link

http://i11.tinypic.com/42m5rex.png

― StanM (StanM), Sunday, 28 January 2007 22:45 (seventeen years ago) link

I thought Living Colour were awful live. I liked their first two albums and Biscuits a lot, though. And Vernon Reid's solo album from last year was great.

― pdf (Phil Freeman), Sunday, 28 January 2007 23:20 (seventeen years ago) link

StanM thanks for giving me a new lj icon

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Sunday, 28 January 2007 23:22 (seventeen years ago) link

yah i saw them live a couple times. bad brains and fishbone are SO MUCH better live. i mean the band was great but corey glover is a bad frontman. like !!!.

― chaki (chaki), Monday, 29 January 2007 00:53 (seventeen years ago) link

they should try crispin glover for a few gigs

― Marmot (marmotwolof), Monday, 29 January 2007 01:01 (seventeen years ago) link

i saw living color back in 87 when they played my college. i knew of them thru greg tate in the voice and that whole black rock coalition or whatever they used to call it. they rocked pretty hard, but their records were such disappointments. i mean they obv. had talent but the results were strangely generic. fishbone was soooo much better.

― timmy tannin (pompous), Monday, 29 January 2007 01:08 (seventeen years ago) link

stain or whatever the red album is called is pretty awesome though

― chaki (chaki), Monday, 29 January 2007 01:11 (seventeen years ago) link

Fishbone were mind-roastingly great live. One of the best shows I've ever been to in my life, probably destined to remain Top Ten forever, was Fishbone with an unbilled 2 Live Crew opening up, right after the end of their trial.

― pdf (Phil Freeman), Monday, 29 January 2007 01:19 (seventeen years ago) link

There are a couple black guys in the Ann Arbor indie rock audiences that I went to high school with, and they both get laid like crazy.
I think that on some level, they've made their peace with the concept of "fetishizing the other."

(ps.— Living Colour were my first concert. Candlebox opened and got booed.)

― js (honestengine), Monday, 29 January 2007 01:21 (seventeen years ago) link

The most scary thing is that this is indeed considered a sensation. Why shouldn't black and white people be able to appreciate the same genres of music, regardless of race?

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 29 January 2007 03:49 (seventeen years ago) link

Tee-hee-hee.

― The Reverend Rodney J. Greene in a DIE BLIPSTER SCUM! tee (R. J. Greene), Monday, 29 January 2007 03:52 (seventeen years ago) link

On the other hand, LET THIS THREAD DIE, DAMMIT!

― The Reverend Rodney J. Greene in a DIE BLIPSTER SCUM! tee (R. J. Greene), Monday, 29 January 2007 03:54 (seventeen years ago) link

Kumbaya, Rodney

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Monday, 29 January 2007 06:55 (seventeen years ago) link

a blipster came to my house tonight, no joke! he told me he is a skateboarder!

― critique de la vie quotidienne (modestmickey), Monday, 29 January 2007 07:33 (seventeen years ago) link

Shocked that the thread has gotten this far with no mention of Sound Barrier!

― monny (mltronik), Monday, 29 January 2007 08:17 (seventeen years ago) link

This reminds me of that "Why do rappers talk about Kurt Cobain" so much thread.

Nirvana sold 24 million records in America. Of course black people listen to them! Everyone listens to them!

― Whiney G. Weingarten (whineyg), Monday, 29 January 2007 08:47 (seventeen years ago) link

if nothing else, this thread is going to make me go see if i can find "stain" at a used CD shop. so success!

― M@tt He1g3s0n: oh u mad cuz im stylin on u (Matt Helgeson), Monday, 29 January 2007 16:49 (seventeen years ago) link

hey have you guys heard of these "wiggers"?

― max (maxreax), Monday, 29 January 2007 17:19 (seventeen years ago) link

So, who else got a personal email [albeit a curt, nasty one] from the author? Raise your hand.

― mts (theoreticalgirl), Monday, 29 January 2007 21:48 (seventeen years ago) link

! Good lord, some writers are touchy.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 29 January 2007 21:50 (seventeen years ago) link

omg
post it

― deej.. (deej..), Monday, 29 January 2007 21:58 (seventeen years ago) link

thread was kind of crappy until ny times writer opened himself up to zingers

― deej.. (deej..), Monday, 29 January 2007 21:58 (seventeen years ago) link

up to FURTHER zingers, that should say

― deej.. (deej..), Monday, 29 January 2007 22:04 (seventeen years ago) link

omg! please post!

― critique de la vie quotidienne (modestmickey), Monday, 29 January 2007 22:13 (seventeen years ago) link

Maybe we (ILX) should start a blog just for posting letters from bands+nytimes writers+such who get mad about bad press.

― UART variations (ex machina), Monday, 29 January 2007 22:16 (seventeen years ago) link

mts, was the letter in response to ilx, or maybe just your blog post?

― critique de la vie quotidienne (modestmickey), Monday, 29 January 2007 22:18 (seventeen years ago) link

it was a response to my blog post.

― mts (theoreticalgirl), Monday, 29 January 2007 22:23 (seventeen years ago) link

aww.

― critique de la vie quotidienne (modestmickey), Monday, 29 January 2007 22:26 (seventeen years ago) link

i know, total letdown, eh?

― mts (theoreticalgirl), Monday, 29 January 2007 22:28 (seventeen years ago) link

Still not clear on why UrbanDictionary is an NYTimes worthy news source. Dom P. doesn't even fuck with that shit.

― UART variations (ex machina), Monday, 29 January 2007 22:41 (seventeen years ago) link

especially when the ascendency of indie rock to popular culture has wrought complete homogenization.

Yea, but that's your fault maria!

― UART variations (ex machina), Monday, 29 January 2007 22:42 (seventeen years ago) link

all those other widely-read publications and blogs were completely innocent -- the blame clearly should rest on the shoulders of a nobody blogger. believe what you want to believe.

― mts (theoreticalgirl), Monday, 29 January 2007 22:50 (seventeen years ago) link

no rave keyboard; no cred

― UART variations (ex machina), Monday, 29 January 2007 23:00 (seventeen years ago) link

stop making me blush with your flattery, sir. i might be inclined to look favorably upon you.

― mts (theoreticalgirl), Monday, 29 January 2007 23:50 (seventeen years ago) link

Jay Z and Beyonce at Fall Out Boy show WTF

― a.b. (alanbanana), Tuesday, 30 January 2007 20:28 (seventeen years ago) link

if nothing else, this thread is going to make me go see if i can find "stain" at a used CD shop. so success!

I'd suggest you save your money. Horrible, dreary record. When Muzz left, the fun left with him.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Tuesday, 30 January 2007 20:50 (seventeen years ago) link

why does black people never want to change your life?

― acid waffle house (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 30 January 2007 20:51 (seventeen years ago) link

i heard it was supposed to be good.

― M@tt He1g3s0n: oh u mad cuz im stylin on u (Matt Helgeson), Tuesday, 30 January 2007 20:51 (seventeen years ago) link

I guess if you find a copy for a couple of bucks it's worth a spin.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Tuesday, 30 January 2007 21:01 (seventeen years ago) link

Why aren't there more people like Jimi Hendrix, Phil Lynott, Lenny Kravitz and Kele Okereke?

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 30 January 2007 23:19 (seventeen years ago) link

B/C no one even knows who the fuck two of those people are and three of them are boring.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Tuesday, 30 January 2007 23:21 (seventeen years ago) link

why aren't there more people like John Lennon, Bruce Springsteen, Sting, and John Mayer?

― Make a Beck Song #1 (M Matos), Tuesday, 30 January 2007 23:21 (seventeen years ago) link

None of them are remotely as boring as 99,99 per cent of today's contemporary R&B or hip-hop acts.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 30 January 2007 23:24 (seventeen years ago) link

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y148/Juror8/464809181180817091106.gif

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 30 January 2007 23:25 (seventeen years ago) link

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