is Karma by Pharoah Sanders the best record ever?

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Flying Dutchman i mean, not flying nun

― [that bastard] jaxon (jaxon), Saturday, 28 May 2005 20:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Archie Shepp
Andy Bey
Joe McPhee
Dewey Redman
Joe Henderson "Elements" (ft Alice Coltrane)
Phil Ranelin "The Time is Now" (this one is straight spiritual unlike his funky "Vibes from the Tribe")

― [that bastard] jaxon (jaxon), Saturday, 28 May 2005 20:09 (twenty-one years ago)

I've been wondering about those Eddie Gale discs. I always see them in the store, but always pass them by. Also, which Don Cherry discs should I pick up? I have Mu and Eternal Rhythm already. Never been a big Charles Lloyd fan.

― pdf (Phil Freeman), Saturday, 28 May 2005 20:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Bobby Hutcherson "Now!" (amazing!)
Horace Silver "Silver & Percussion" "Silver & Voices"
Abdullah Ibrahim & Johnny Dyani "Echoes from Africa"
Charlie Haden "Liberation Music Orchestra"
Cecil McBee "Mutima"
Lester Bowie
Harold Land "Choma (Burn)"

― [that bastard] jaxon (jaxon), Saturday, 28 May 2005 20:15 (twenty-one years ago)

here's my rundown of the Cherry albums i have
Don Cherry - s/d

Those Eddie Gale releases are the ultimate. sooooooo amazing!!

― [that bastard] jaxon (jaxon), Saturday, 28 May 2005 20:15 (twenty-one years ago)

and not to be contrarian to the rest of the thread, but i listen to "Village of the Pharoahs" and "Wisdom Through Music" far more than i listen to any other Sanders albums

― [that bastard] jaxon (jaxon), Saturday, 28 May 2005 20:37 (twenty-one years ago)

and if you're really jonesing for some more of this stuff, LA dj & club thrower Carlos Nino put out an album as a band called Build an Ark that sounds IDENTICAL to this stuff. it has Derf Reklaw, Dwight Trible, Phil Ranelin, Stanley Cowell. they do covers of Sanders, ranelin & cowell tunes. more than half of it is sorta blah, but there are a few really good tracks on it. but it's kinda like "what's the point?"

and dwight trible has a solo album out a few years ago. he sings just like leon thomas

― [that bastard] jaxon (jaxon), Saturday, 28 May 2005 20:47 (twenty-one years ago)

"which Don Cherry discs should I pick up?"

Brown Rice

I also second Joe Henderson's Elements w/ Alice and Charlie Haden.

― Dave Segal (Da ve Segal), Saturday, 28 May 2005 21:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Haven't heard Karma, but I gotta say that Pharoah's 1999 set at Bumbershoot was the finest live jazz performance I have ever witnessed in all of my 39 years. The man has GOT IT.

― sleeve (sleeve), Saturday, 28 May 2005 23:13 (twenty-one years ago)

I saw Pharaoh in 1992 or 1993, at Iridium in NYC (when it was still up by Lincoln Center). He had Cindy Blackman, from Lenny Kravitz's band, on drums.

― pdf (Phil Freeman), Saturday, 28 May 2005 23:25 (twenty-one years ago)

I saw Pharoah about that time at Yoshi's in Oakland. Not very much sax in the mix, considering. There was a lot more chanting and hand percussion.

I guess I gotta try out this Iphizo Zam thing.

― Austin Still (Austin, Still), Sunday, 29 May 2005 01:25 (twenty-one years ago)

three weeks pass...

whats the deal with this private tape of sanders in france in 1971 with a 55(!) minute version of creator has a master plan? anyone heard it?

― charltonlido (gareth), Thursday, 23 June 2005 23:57 (twenty years ago)

my mistake. its nice, and its not 55 minutes either

Session 4, 18.07.1971, Nice, France

Pharoah Sanders ts, ss, fl, tamb, perc
Lonnie Liston Smith p
Cecil McBee b
Jimmy Hopps dr
Lawrence Killian bongo

1.Jamil (Sanders) 22:55
2.Unknown title (sanders) 19:30
2.The Creator Has a Master Plan (Sanders-Thomas) 20:45
3.Let Us Go into the House of the Lord (Sanders) 25:13

Private tape

― charltonlido (gareth), Friday, 24 June 2005 00:01 (twenty years ago)

I'd like to hear it please

― a real bear behind the microphone (nordicskilla), Friday, 24 June 2005 02:59 (twenty years ago)

its not as good as i'd hoped, though it can go on the cdr package

astral travelling, tell me of this one?

― charltonlido (gareth), Friday, 1 July 2005 06:30 (twenty years ago)

"The Creator Has a Master Plan" is brilliant, but the song that follows it is kinda boring.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Friday, 1 July 2005 09:33 (twenty years ago)

oh, in my post, i meant the live set in Nice. Karma is great, almost as good as izipho zam!

― charltonlido (gareth), Friday, 1 July 2005 09:36 (twenty years ago)

only a fiver in the hmv sale at the moment for them as haven't got it yet!

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Friday, 1 July 2005 09:39 (twenty years ago)

Black Unity shattered my mind into a million pieces.
Nothing compares to this album.

― theophilus jones (theophilus), Friday, 1 July 2005 12:26 (twenty years ago)

so dope.

― Baby BobO (nordicskilla), Friday, 1 July 2005 15:38 (twenty years ago)

is that a vieri reference?

― charltonlido (gareth), Friday, 1 July 2005 15:54 (twenty years ago)

amateurist

― Baby BobO (nordicskilla), Friday, 1 July 2005 15:55 (twenty years ago)

four weeks pass...

So, is there anything in the world nearly as joyful in an unrestrained, sun breaking through mist in the morning, life suddenly makes sense, pancakes in winter way as "Creator Has A Master Plan"? If so please recommend kthx

― nervous (cochere), Friday, 29 July 2005 10:50 (twenty years ago)

I think it's one of the sexiest records ever. It's structured like sex for a start - lots of foreplay (all those delicate bells and chanting), then it gradually builds up and up in passion until it EXPLODES into freeform orgasm. It is also Tantric jazz as we get five or six orgasms in the course of the performance. Treat "Colors" as the cigarette afterwards.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Friday, 29 July 2005 10:53 (twenty years ago)

How do people think Karma compares with A Love Supreme? I know which I prefer, and I wonder what it says about me as a person.

― NickB (NickB), Friday, 29 July 2005 11:21 (twenty years ago)

I like "Jewels of Thought", it's like a less nuts version of "Karma"

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 29 July 2005 11:41 (twenty years ago)

Whereas Izipho-Zam is a considerably nuttier version of Karma, but thankfully not in the Madness sense.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Friday, 29 July 2005 11:51 (twenty years ago)

I recommend experiencing all three version - from nuts to nutty to nuttiest!

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 29 July 2005 11:59 (twenty years ago)

The version of "Prince Of Peace" is notable for Sanders creaking away on the bass clarinet like a loose Hornblower gangplank.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Friday, 29 July 2005 12:04 (twenty years ago)

the version on Jewels Of Thought, that is.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Friday, 29 July 2005 12:04 (twenty years ago)

The solo in the middle is the fucking business

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 29 July 2005 12:05 (twenty years ago)

I prefer the Jewels of Thought version of "Prince of Peace," because it's got that utterly fuckin transcendent sax blast from Pharoah at the end, but Izipho Zam is better overall.

That Karma though...man, what an album.

― Zack Richardson (teenagequiet), Friday, 29 July 2005 14:28 (twenty years ago)

ive never heard jewels of thought!

i just ordered a copy from sound323

― charltonlido (gareth), Friday, 29 July 2005 16:48 (twenty years ago)

six months pass...

I just found Village Of The Pharoahs for five bucks. I am loving it. Clearly I have to get all of the Impulse albums now.

― sleeve (sleeve), Monday, 13 February 2006 05:31 (twenty years ago)

I've only got Jewels of Though & Sunmun Bukmun Umyun, but they're both great. I'll give most any pharaoh sanders record a chance.

― Special Agent Gene Krupa (orion), Monday, 13 February 2006 05:44 (twenty years ago)

karma is totally in my top 20 records ever, and "colors" is the perfect ending. it's definitely my favorite p.sanders album, but i like jewels of thought, live at the east, and thembi a ton, plus all his work on alice coltrane albums and on ask the ages.

― pssst - badass revolutionary art! (plsmith), Monday, 13 February 2006 15:01 (twenty years ago)

five months pass...

the sound of summer

― -- (688), Saturday, 15 July 2006 20:22 (nineteen years ago)

LOVE IS EVERYWHERE (the live, bootlegged cut)

― fongoloid sangfroid (sanskrit), Saturday, 15 July 2006 21:17 (nineteen years ago)

Karma is my fave Pharoah Sanders.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy (Kerr), Saturday, 15 July 2006 21:53 (nineteen years ago)

which do people prefer, ouy out of hum allah hum allah hum allah, and prince of peace. i....dont know

at the moment i like summun bukmun umyun best, and ive been into sun in aquarius a lot more also

― -- (688), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 20:49 (nineteen years ago)

i havent heard pharoahs first, then i have them all up until village of the pharoahs/blackunity/live at the east/wisdom through music/elevation

lets talk about these lps

― -- (688), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 20:52 (nineteen years ago)

and not to be contrarian to the rest of the thread, but i listen to "Village of the Pharoahs" and "Wisdom Through Music" far more than i listen to any other Sanders albums
-- [that bastard] jaxon (jaso...), May 28th, 2005 2:37 PM. (jaxon)

― Mike Hawk (jaxon), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 22:23 (nineteen years ago)

tell me about them!

― -- (688), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 22:25 (nineteen years ago)

but yeah, Village of the Pharoahs and Wisdom Through Music are pretty different albums. they're kinda happy and upbeat and don't even have that much free playing on them. they're a bit latin, a bit worldy, very sing songy and chanty. a lot of percussion. he's not even playing sax on a bunch of songs.

i've only ever listened to Live at the East once or twice. kinda whatever. (actually i take that back.listening now. it's what you'd expect from a prime period PS album except you can hear people clapping in the background).

Pharoahs First, even though it's on ESP was boring. remember it being just bop.

i only got Elevation recently. weird that i didn't even know it existed because he's one of my fave artists. it's pretty good. some of the same players on the later albums (village, wisdom). not as much sax also.

fuck. just buy or download them all. except First and the Pharoah & Latin Jazz Quartet album.

― Mike Hawk (jaxon), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 22:32 (nineteen years ago)

i also remember thinking Summun Bukmun Umyun had too much soprano sax on it for my tastes. i'll listen next

― Mike Hawk (jaxon), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 22:34 (nineteen years ago)

the production on Live at the East isn't as immediate and in your face and sounds a little far away

― Mike Hawk (jaxon), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 22:35 (nineteen years ago)

one year passes...

This might be a stupid question, but how did those Pharoah Sanders albums that have tunes longer than 25 minutes work on vinyl? Did the tune fade out at the end of side A and the fade in at the beginning of side B? Did they only become available in their intended form after they were released on CD?

― Tuomas, Sunday, 3 February 2008 19:22 (eighteen years ago)

yes. http://www.discogs.com/release/873261

― jaxon, Sunday, 3 February 2008 19:50 (eighteen years ago)

Def. one of the huge benefits of CD.

― Alex in SF, Sunday, 3 February 2008 22:30 (eighteen years ago)

everyone should own two copies of each pharoah album!

-- vahid (vahid), Saturday, May 28, 2005 1:49 AM

i am working on this as we speak.

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Monday, 4 February 2008 04:41 (eighteen years ago)

Skipping 181 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

Wow.

― Narada Michael Fagan (Tom D.), Tuesday, 27 September 2022 07:14 (three years ago)

Sounds like a mash up but it's apparently real. There's a wikipedia entry on it mentioning a couple of other tracks from teh sessions with Leon Thomas on and a few other unexpected artists like Ornette coleman. Apparently it's about Louis Armstrong's last but one session and he was too weak to play trumpet but sang ok.
It's up on Spotify as the full original lp if you want to hear any more.

― Stevolende, Tuesday, 27 September 2022 10:20 (three years ago)

I discovered that Louis track via this excellent NTS show from a few years ago (maybe even posted on ILM?) thats an hourlong mashup of a bunch of different covers of "Creator", lots of great versions

― nobody like my rap (One Eye Open), Tuesday, 27 September 2022 13:43 (three years ago)

two months pass...

Really nice appreciation of Pharoah by Kamasi Washington in the Guardian.

― but also fuck you (unperson), Tuesday, 13 December 2022 00:09 (three years ago)

nine months pass...

Pharoah reissued and streaming

a blessing

http://www.pharoahsanders.com/harvesttime/2023/9/14/its-harvest-time

― corrs unplugged, Wednesday, 20 September 2023 13:53 (two years ago)

i love this record but have to say that $55 for a "box set" (actually just a 2XLP with booklet) is highway robbery

― budo jeru, Wednesday, 20 September 2023 14:45 (two years ago)

otm

― out-of-print LaserDisc edition (sleeve), Wednesday, 20 September 2023 14:56 (two years ago)

bet $5 that a year from now there will be a single-LP version

― out-of-print LaserDisc edition (sleeve), Wednesday, 20 September 2023 14:56 (two years ago)

(for $30)

― out-of-print LaserDisc edition (sleeve), Wednesday, 20 September 2023 14:57 (two years ago)

i have a bootleg repro that i'm happy with, and it sounds like they are posting photos and essays online so

― budo jeru, Wednesday, 20 September 2023 15:52 (two years ago)

same!

― out-of-print LaserDisc edition (sleeve), Wednesday, 20 September 2023 15:52 (two years ago)

The bootleg's been so expensive for ages, so I'm happy to be able to pick up a copy. The live stuff's great too.

― Tim, Wednesday, 20 September 2023 15:53 (two years ago)

streaming on Bandcamp fwiw

cool origin story that I did not know:

This record’s origin story is as elusive as Pharoah himself. It was born out of a misunderstanding between Pharoah and the India Navigation producer Bob Cummins, and was recorded with a group of musicians so unlikely that they were never all in the same room again. There was the guitarist Tisziji Muñoz, who would go on to become a spiritual guru, the organist Clifton “Jiggs” Chase, who would leave jazz to take a job at Sugar Hill Records, where he would co-write and produce “The Message” for Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five, and Bedria Sanders, Pharoah’s wife at the time and a classically trained pianist, who would play the harmonium on this record even though she had never seen a harmonium before.

― out-of-print LaserDisc edition (sleeve), Wednesday, 20 September 2023 16:47 (two years ago)

i'm glad it's back in print, and i see now that it's also available on CD or digitally, which is great.

― budo jeru, Wednesday, 20 September 2023 17:14 (two years ago)

i love this record but have to say that $55 for a "box set" (actually just a 2XLP with booklet) is highway robbery

I'm selling mine — mint, sealed — on Discogs for just $50 plus shipping. A bargain!

― read-only (unperson), Wednesday, 20 September 2023 17:20 (two years ago)

Is the cover photo not to your liking? 8)

― nickn, Wednesday, 20 September 2023 18:24 (two years ago)

nine months pass...

Spiritual Satch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afaebblA5rk

wonder if it's included in
https://aquariumdrunkard.com/2024/06/27/master-planners-interpretations-of-pharoah-sanderss-magnum-opus/

― corrs unplugged, Monday, 1 July 2024 13:20 (one year ago)

So good. I remember discovering it via a similarly-themed mix on NTS at one point

― waste of compute (One Eye Open), Monday, 1 July 2024 19:58 (one year ago)

When I interviewed Billy Harper I asked him about that session but apparently his part was overdubbed so he didn't get to meet Armstrong.

― Instead of create and send out, it pull back and consume (unperson), Monday, 1 July 2024 19:59 (one year ago)

one year passes...

nice

https://www.elemental-music.com/jazz-treasures/4919-pharoah-sanders-love-is-here-8436569196052.html

― sleeve, Saturday, 6 September 2025 16:41 (nine months ago)

1. IMPROVISATION WITH PIPE ORGAN 9:05

― budo jeru, Saturday, 6 September 2025 16:58 (nine months ago)

apparently this earlier version is heavily edited?

https://transversales.bandcamp.com/album/live-in-paris-1975

― sleeve, Saturday, 6 September 2025 17:03 (nine months ago)

Seems like, yeah. I know the guy who produced the 2CD version and have reached out for a copy. Will report back. Interesting that it's not on the label's Bandcamp page...

https://elementalmusicrecords.bandcamp.com/

― Instead of create and send out, it pull back and consume (unperson), Saturday, 6 September 2025 17:11 (nine months ago)

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