that thing white ppl do when they disparage 'white ppl'

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Poll Results

OptionVotes
annoying 15
fuck white ppl 4eva 14
they shd read more fanon/ignatiev/malcolm x and less 'stuff white people like' 11
there needs to be more white ppl thinking about white ppl in totality 9
affectatious 9
tendentious 5
cool 3
endearing 3
thought-provoking 2
amusing 1


nakhchivan, Friday, 23 April 2010 12:36 (ten years ago) link

mandatory

who's always getting head from the commissioner (Eric H.), Friday, 23 April 2010 12:39 (ten years ago) link

I've done it myself, but now I think it's a bit tacky. Trying too hard.

Jack Human (kenan), Friday, 23 April 2010 12:40 (ten years ago) link

that thing ___ ppl do when they ____ '____ ppl'

mdskltr (blueski), Friday, 23 April 2010 12:40 (ten years ago) link

Congrats on using the word "tendentious" tho

Jack Human (kenan), Friday, 23 April 2010 12:41 (ten years ago) link

when they do this, i tend to think "finally they get it"

or, what eric h said

لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Friday, 23 April 2010 12:49 (ten years ago) link

that thing ___ ppl do when they ____ '____ ppl'

― mdskltr (blueski), Friday, April 23, 2010 8:40 AM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Yes.

kingkongvsgodzilla, Friday, 23 April 2010 12:52 (ten years ago) link

people don't understand that when we do this, we are playing ourselves

just darraghmac tbh (darraghmac), Friday, 23 April 2010 12:57 (ten years ago) link

there needs to be more white ppl thinking about white ppl in totality

max, Friday, 23 April 2010 13:11 (ten years ago) link

they shd read more fanon/ignatiev/malcolm x and less 'stuff white people like'

^^ i feel like ppl who are keen to disparage white ppl are also keen to big up malcolm x & fanon & whoever

max, Friday, 23 April 2010 13:11 (ten years ago) link

http://agrammar.tumblr.com/post/207970845/white

What surprises me, though, is how many white speakers—including people who are relatively savvy about race and culture—seem completely unbothered by the very obvious problems involved in using a racial shorthand for them. Some will quite casually use “white” as code for a certain set of qualities—safety, cleverness, politeness, education, middle-class manner, “literary” pretensions, alleged blandness—without, so far as I can tell, much noticing the shadow of opposites that casts on everyone else. (Danger? Vulgarity? Ignorance? Poverty? Savagery?) Some will argue, in earnest, that they’re actually taking the side of some vibrant other thing over bland, upscale whiteness—all without noticing how very old and familiar that line is. (Haven’t white audiences traditionally admired black artists as a source of transgression, of danger, of dirt, of “authenticity,” of “soul,” of “primitive” thrills?)

max, Friday, 23 April 2010 13:15 (ten years ago) link

i tend to use 'white' as shorthand for 'white', but maybe i haven't read all of that strawman with the appropriate care and attention.

just darraghmac tbh (darraghmac), Friday, 23 April 2010 13:17 (ten years ago) link

xp- yep

bamcquern, Friday, 23 April 2010 13:29 (ten years ago) link

max's quote above is massively OTM. This is always said by people who whether consciously aware of it or not are drowning in 1950s "White Negro" crap. "I'm not really white, I listen to hip-hop! I'm not really white, I live down the street from a pupuseria that's muy autentico! I'm not really white, I don't own a TV!"

Why not just bring the word "bourgeois" back? It means something! And the thing it means is something people obviously want to express! And then people can stop denoting that thing by "white" or "suburban" or "American" or whatever other evidently wrong proxy they're using now.

Guayaquil (eephus!), Friday, 23 April 2010 14:07 (ten years ago) link

I'm the whitest girl in the world AND I live down the street from eleventy-six jerk joints. Okay not anymore, now I live down the street from NYU. I miss the curry.

i lump this sort of stuff in with hipster bashing et al, the white people in things white people like are simultaneously a really narrow subculture and a vaguely defined punching bag for people who consider themselves above it.

imma sb (samosa gibreel), Friday, 23 April 2010 14:16 (ten years ago) link

max's quote above is massively OTM.

How could it be otherwise?

Blecch Generation (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 23 April 2010 14:16 (ten years ago) link

some white bread itt

dyªº (dyao), Friday, 23 April 2010 14:18 (ten years ago) link

[nabisco]'s blog post touches on one of my socio-political pet peeves, the one about black people not having the privilege to possess traits commonly defined as "white." In the black majority this tendency seems reinforced by their culture, particularly youth culture and the media they consume, but I think they do it, i.e., embrace things that are interpreted as urban, dangerous, primitive, and "black," as a way of appropriating and exalting an image thrust on them, because it's something they can do well, that they can do better than anyone else, and because it gives them a confidence that maybe their situations don't. They would rather be "black" than compete with whites at being "white," who haven't historically (and continue not to) let them be.

I suspect that this tendency boomed when the US deindustrialized in the seventies & eighties and the livelihoods of many of the black majority were lost. I also think that housing projects, in that they are culturally irresponsible uses of living space that have further fragmented community and family units, have exacerbated the problem.

Though black people also identify whiteness apart from "white"-ness and apart from the bourgeois.

bamcquern, Friday, 23 April 2010 14:49 (ten years ago) link

youre skating on thin ice there bam

max, Friday, 23 April 2010 14:52 (ten years ago) link

Why not just bring the word "bourgeois" back? It means something!

If I could just kill this one word, my entire life would have meant something. Also, afaik, the only white people who can even say this word correctly are the French.

Il suffit de ne pas l'envier (Michael White), Friday, 23 April 2010 15:09 (ten years ago) link

I say "paper mâché."

bamcquern, Friday, 23 April 2010 15:12 (ten years ago) link

I'm the whitest girl in the world

Can you unpack what you mean by that, though?

jaymc, Friday, 23 April 2010 15:39 (ten years ago) link

Tell me why.

For one thing, you're treating "black people" monolithically. This is one thing that Nabisco has written astutely about -- one of the problems with using "white" as shorthand for "middle-class" or "dorky" or "liberal arts grad" is that it implicitly writes out all of the non-whites who literally exist in these spaces.

jaymc, Friday, 23 April 2010 15:45 (ten years ago) link

In the black majority this tendency seems reinforced by their culture, particularly youth culture and the media they consume

its not that i dont see what youre saying here (and fwiw i dont think i agree, but whatever), its just a kind of problematic way of saying it, isnt it? making sort of vague generalities abt the habits of a race is not a particularly constructive way to have a conversation, even if your hearts int the right place, in other words.

max, Friday, 23 April 2010 15:46 (ten years ago) link

xp jaymc otm

max, Friday, 23 April 2010 15:46 (ten years ago) link

yeah i was gonna get started on a post for this thread and i then i thought, no

la senora (surm), Friday, 23 April 2010 15:46 (ten years ago) link

ppl are white btw

am0n, Friday, 23 April 2010 15:49 (ten years ago) link

u stole my post

puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Friday, 23 April 2010 15:50 (ten years ago) link

like 30 secs faster and it would be my login under that post

puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Friday, 23 April 2010 15:50 (ten years ago) link

people of non-color

velko, Friday, 23 April 2010 15:51 (ten years ago) link

Hmm, if I've ever disparaged a 'white person' it's generally when they're exhibiting some annoying form of 'white privilege'.

yes we kenya (suzy), Friday, 23 April 2010 15:53 (ten years ago) link

making sort of vague generalities abt the habits of a race is not a particularly constructive way to have a conversation, even if your hearts int the right place

well the thing is people's hearts usually aren't in the right place and they're not trying to have a constructive conversation - it's usually always as in "lol white people". i thought you of all people were into internet lols at the expense of others~

لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Friday, 23 April 2010 15:54 (ten years ago) link

race vs. class

am0n, Friday, 23 April 2010 15:55 (ten years ago) link

if any american whites are interested in mitigating for their whiteness feel free to sign the petition to pass the dream act, has something to do with stopping illegal mexican kids from getting deported or something, i dunno

iiiijjjj, Friday, 23 April 2010 15:55 (ten years ago) link

i thought you of all people were into internet lols at the expense of others~

― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Friday, April 23, 2010 11:54 AM

u do know dom doesn't post here anymore rite

am0n, Friday, 23 April 2010 15:58 (ten years ago) link

this just in: white people still corny

velko, Friday, 23 April 2010 15:59 (ten years ago) link

This sounds like the worst thing

am0n, Friday, 23 April 2010 16:00 (ten years ago) link

Not monolithically. Generalizing is not stereotyping, and it doesn't preclude the existence of people who don't fit. And "black majority," a phrase widely used and understood, narrows the group down quite a lot, and talking about black youth narrows the group further.

My argument's not quite the same as his, but it's not too different from the way Houston Baker talks about US blacks using generalizations. He includes more examples but he's writing books, not ilx posts.

bamcquern, Friday, 23 April 2010 16:01 (ten years ago) link

Holy Jesus and Mary Chain and Joseph.

bamcquern, Friday, 23 April 2010 16:02 (ten years ago) link

one of the problems with using "white" as shorthand for "middle-class" or "dorky" or "liberal arts grad" is that it implicitly writes out all of the non-whites who literally exist in these spaces.

That's implicitly in my post. That's what I said I disliked.

bamcquern, Friday, 23 April 2010 16:04 (ten years ago) link

well the thing is people's hearts usually aren't in the right place and they're not trying to have a constructive conversation - it's usually always as in "lol white people". i thought you of all people were into internet lols at the expense of others~

― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Friday, April 23, 2010 11:54 AM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i dont think we disagree? what do you think im trying to say?

max, Friday, 23 April 2010 16:04 (ten years ago) link

"heart's in the right place" "problematic"

Just call me racist.

bamcquern, Friday, 23 April 2010 16:05 (ten years ago) link

u r not racist
u r white ppl tho

nakhchivan, Friday, 23 April 2010 16:08 (ten years ago) link

Not monolithically. Generalizing is not stereotyping, and it doesn't preclude the existence of people who don't fit. And "black majority," a phrase widely used and understood, narrows the group down quite a lot, and talking about black youth narrows the group further.

generalizing isnt stereotyping, but it suffers from some of the same discursive problems, doesnt it? and im not sure "black majority" is quite a widely-used and understood as you think!

max, Friday, 23 April 2010 16:09 (ten years ago) link

I'm guessing map meant that capitalism is ultimately a white supremacist ideology due to its Eurocolonialist roots. I think this is a historically correct assessment but harder to argue the closer we draw to the present moment.

xp 'the effect is still to give whiteness a monopoly on many traits and values that many non-white people may in fact consider positive' – yes, and it is in fact tremendously condescending, even insulting. This kind of ties into what I was saying: there's a tendency to argue that because x comes from y, which is/was bad, then x must also be bad. The pinnacle of essentialism.

pomenitul, Tuesday, 6 April 2021 14:31 (two weeks ago) link

Like it was once racist to say "people of color are lazy," and that graphic basically says "Yes, that's true, but what if laziness isn't bad? And if people of color aren't lazy it's because they've internalized white culture due to it being dominant."

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 6 April 2021 14:33 (two weeks ago) link

People can disparage white people all they like but disparaging Neil Diamond is not on.

Duncan Disorderly (Tom D.), Tuesday, 6 April 2021 14:39 (two weeks ago) link

OK wow that graphic is a lot to unpack. Initial baseline impression: I probably soft-agree or can see why they're making a case for most of those points taken societally but also I can see that many individual ppl may have or believe in some of those qualities as generally "good" on an individual level.

xxp I think that's a possible initial reading but that the creator is telling us to look deeper--the emphasis on productivity over quality of life, the contempt for those who don't want to make or take more than is needed, a collective valuing of more-ness over sufficiency...those are things that white supremacist patriarchal capitalism encourages us to value, as opposed to cultures we supplanted that valued harmony, sufficiency, collective wellness, cooperation, etc.

Ima Gardener (in orbit), Tuesday, 6 April 2021 14:40 (two weeks ago) link

I feel like it would be more helpful to describe some of those things as capitalist than "white," i.e. associate them with ideology rather than race.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 6 April 2021 14:42 (two weeks ago) link

I mean not only is that unfair to people of color who have those values, but there's also a bit of a noble savage vibe to the implications about "non-white culture."

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 6 April 2021 14:43 (two weeks ago) link

Also, absolute bottom line, that kind of advice is meant for WHITE PEOPLE. We're the ones who need to inspect ourselves and consider why we might unthinkingly cast things as morally good or bad, to interrogate what we were taught was natural/immutable, etc. Marginalized and especially Black and indigenous people are not implicated in critiques of whiteness.

Ima Gardener (in orbit), Tuesday, 6 April 2021 14:43 (two weeks ago) link

It's zero-sum game thinking, which is a blight upon contemporary discourse. Reassessing things that have been devalued/deprecated/demonized by the powers-that-be is a necessary step in the right direction, but these things a) are not automatically good by dint of having been deemed lesser by an oppressively hegemonic system; b) may in some cases be complements or, better yet, the conceptual equals of their purported antithesis. The inversion of values is not enough if it merely upholds binarism – you need to take it a step further (this is basically Deconstruction 101).

xps

pomenitul, Tuesday, 6 April 2021 14:48 (two weeks ago) link

In terms of exotification of non-white cultures or whatever, yes that happens and that's why white ppl need to look to POC leadership broadly to define what THEY value and what parts of other heritages they want to foreground and reframe in a way that's liberated from white supremacist capitalist patriarchy (god bless bell hooks). The ground is laid by Black and POC leadership and that's where white ppl (who want to do and be better) need to look to that leadership and make ourselves accountable to it, whatever that means for each of us.

Ima Gardener (in orbit), Tuesday, 6 April 2021 14:49 (two weeks ago) link

Like, first impressions, if I went into a space/gathering of white people and they busted out that graphic with no explanation, I would def have questions. But otoh I've seen basically the same content drawn up by Black organizers as teaching material for white ppl to stop pushing a white-privileged worldview onto everyone else and every situation.

Ima Gardener (in orbit), Tuesday, 6 April 2021 14:55 (two weeks ago) link

I think that's a possible initial reading but that the creator is telling us to look deeper--the emphasis on productivity over quality of life, the contempt for those who don't want to make or take more than is needed, a collective valuing of more-ness over sufficiency...those are things that white supremacist patriarchal capitalism encourages us to value, as opposed to cultures we supplanted that valued harmony, sufficiency, collective wellness, cooperation, etc.

Would you say that the standard of living in a culture that privileges harmony, sufficiency, collective wellness, and cooperation is high or low?

Dana Jel Pey (DJP), Tuesday, 6 April 2021 15:03 (two weeks ago) link

I have no idea but that's not for me to define, is my point.

Ima Gardener (in orbit), Tuesday, 6 April 2021 15:05 (two weeks ago) link

i'm aware that i'm playing out of bounds a little bit here re: whiteness and i hope you'll forgive me--i'm not trying to hurt anyone, but these thoughts aren't fully formed or calibrated and there are some rough edges. and i know that i stump for whiteness to a degree in my day-to-day, definitely in ways i'm not even aware of. i'm not trying to make this a post-race thing, that would be really stupid. i just think that the racial dynamic of whiteness is intimately tied with the will to dominate other people based on some biological fundamentalism--like that's the point of it--and that biological fundamenatalism can be re-stated or re-aligned in different ways, it can be realigned to a category of "laziness" that applies across racial identity groups for instance--whatever the current formation of the will to dominate others requires, although of course certain ones like blackness in america have a long and extremely brutal history.

there are shades of "i have the right to survive and thrive" and "i deserve to live a highly exploitative lifestyle just because of who i am" in everything we do to get along in the world. the difference between those two things is becoming increasingly obfuscated. i mean "wanting/enjoying a high standard of living" or "being an entrepreneur" is 1) something that sounds like what everyone should have access to in order to be their best selves but is also 2) always going to be on the backs of others to some degree? it's not a hard and fast thing, always with inflections and contexts, but somewhere on the scale of jesus christ to elon musk i think we sort of have to own how much our position in the world comes at the expense of others imo.

but in any case it strikes me that white people disparaging white-people-culture is one of the whitest things imaginable--it's showy and hypocritical, it scores you little points in the cultural capital column, and it does absolutely nothing to alleviate any real disparity that whiteness creates, in fact i think it just reinforces the effects of whiteness. i do think a lot of people mean well when they do this and they are probably working against whiteness in other, more real ways, but it always makes me feel embarrassed for them. am i working against whiteness in real, meaningful ways? i like to think so but then i'm increasingly aware of my limitations and the extremely white culture i have to be a part of every day.

John Cooper of Christian rock band Skillet (map), Tuesday, 6 April 2021 15:12 (two weeks ago) link

yeah I think I agree with your point about the "white people making fun of white people" thing, in fact it kind of jibes with what I'm saying - there's almost a humblebrag or an implicit self-congratulation to a lot of the "lol white people" jokes that could be read to imply a superior culture with a few funny shortcomings.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 6 April 2021 15:16 (two weeks ago) link

I do feel "my whiteness" when I respond to "Carry On My Wayward Son" ... though it was a recurring theme song in CW tv show "Supernatural" so maybe it has become "less white"? Also, how can this white ppl playlist exist with Creedence. Carry On is a "deep cut" compared to a half dozen CCR songs ... and why the perennial "Friends in Low Places" is also absent ... I think this list was probably compiled by a younger person (I don't recognize 1/3 of the songs because I'm old), and maybe that Garth Brooks song isn't as prevalent among the youngs?

sarahell, Tuesday, 6 April 2021 15:23 (two weeks ago) link

booming post, map

Daniel_Rf, Tuesday, 6 April 2021 15:24 (two weeks ago) link

*exist without Creedence

sarahell, Tuesday, 6 April 2021 15:24 (two weeks ago) link

though it was a recurring theme song in CW tv show "Supernatural" so maybe it has become "less white"

I've seen Supernatural. I am having difficulty imagining anything less white than Supernatural. (And Kansas had John Brown on the cover of their debut album, so their politics are...murky.)

but also fuck you (unperson), Tuesday, 6 April 2021 15:40 (two weeks ago) link

Sorry — anything more white than Supernatural.

but also fuck you (unperson), Tuesday, 6 April 2021 15:41 (two weeks ago) link

one thing I've learned is that whenever white people try to clown something for being very white, that thing will end up having huge non-white fanbases

Daniel_Rf, Tuesday, 6 April 2021 15:47 (two weeks ago) link

see: Phil Collins

Dana Jel Pey (DJP), Tuesday, 6 April 2021 15:48 (two weeks ago) link

Supernatural has an insane tumblr/twitter/meme following that crosses racial barriers iirc

G.A.G.S. (Gophers Against Getting Stuffed) (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 6 April 2021 15:49 (two weeks ago) link

Yeah, that's a good example. Also Celine Dion, the Smiths, Country music (huge in Nigeria! Or used to be, anyway)...any schmaltzy 70's act you could mention is bound to have a strong following in South East Asia.

xpost

Daniel_Rf, Tuesday, 6 April 2021 15:50 (two weeks ago) link

(I had a longer post to in orbit and map that I deleted because it was pompous. I will revisit it if I can make it sound less like we are the council in charge of designing a post-racist society and more like people who've known each other for years having a conversation.)

Dana Jel Pey (DJP), Tuesday, 6 April 2021 15:51 (two weeks ago) link

xp the transition of Journey into a Filipino-led band (albeit one whose lead singer somehow hasn't joined them in the R&R HoF) is worth including in that list

G.A.G.S. (Gophers Against Getting Stuffed) (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 6 April 2021 15:53 (two weeks ago) link

one thing I've learned is that whenever white people try to clown something for being very white, that thing will end up having huge non-white fanbases

That's often true. That doesn't make the thing itself less white, though. Something can be a product of white culture (WHICH IS A THING) and still appeal to non-white people. Amazing but true!

but also fuck you (unperson), Tuesday, 6 April 2021 15:54 (two weeks ago) link

Supernatural has an insane tumblr/twitter/meme following that crosses racial barriers iirc

― G.A.G.S. (Gophers Against Getting Stuffed) (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, April 6, 2021 8:49 AM (four minutes ago

otm! the two friends I would nerd out about that show with when I was super into it a few years ago were both queer & POC

sarahell, Tuesday, 6 April 2021 15:55 (two weeks ago) link

xxp
*Steps out from beneath an umbrella and looks up to drone camera hovering over the English countryside, speaking in unison with Noel Fielding*
"Welcome... to the new season... of The Great Post-Racist Society Planning Thread"

G.A.G.S. (Gophers Against Getting Stuffed) (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 6 April 2021 15:56 (two weeks ago) link

(I had a longer post to in orbit and map that I deleted because it was pompous. I will revisit it if I can make it sound less like we are the council in charge of designing a post-racist society and more like people who've known each other for years having a conversation.)

― Dana Jel Pey (DJP), Tuesday, April 6, 2021 4:51 PM (five minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

lol if this is shade at me i deserve it.

John Cooper of Christian rock band Skillet (map), Tuesday, 6 April 2021 15:58 (two weeks ago) link

Something can be a product of white culture (WHICH IS A THING) and still appeal to non-white people. Amazing but true!

I will leave it to someone else to "interrogate" that one, but ... would you say a hypothetical "product of white culture" that appeals to many non-white people is "more white" than a "product of white culture" with a predominantly white audience? Like idk The McLaughlin Group

sarahell, Tuesday, 6 April 2021 15:59 (two weeks ago) link

That doesn't make the thing itself less white, though. Something can be a product of white culture (WHICH IS A THING) and still appeal to non-white people. Amazing but true!

Sure. But as discussed in this thread, attempts to paint a certain cultural product as white from ppl who are themselves white are usually done to distance themselves from said culture and carry cachet as a hip not-that-kind-of-white-person.

Daniel_Rf, Tuesday, 6 April 2021 15:59 (two weeks ago) link

It was meant to be shade at myself! There's plenty of room under here though if you'd like

Dana Jel Pey (DJP), Tuesday, 6 April 2021 15:59 (two weeks ago) link

hehe why thank you

John Cooper of Christian rock band Skillet (map), Tuesday, 6 April 2021 16:00 (two weeks ago) link

Sorry — anything more white than Supernatural.

― but also fuck you (unperson), Tuesday, April 6, 2021 8:41 AM (seventeen minutes ago)

I mean ... you are trolling or somehow forgetting a very large quantity of things here ... esp. considering you used to post on Bagatellen

sarahell, Tuesday, 6 April 2021 16:01 (two weeks ago) link

Like idk The McLaughlin Group

Don't know enough about the McLaughlin Group to know if it's whiter than cricket.

Duncan Disorderly (Tom D.), Tuesday, 6 April 2021 16:02 (two weeks ago) link

Bagatellen

Non-idiomatic improv passes through whiteness and achieves translucence.

but also fuck you (unperson), Tuesday, 6 April 2021 16:03 (two weeks ago) link

xp - The original incarnation aired on PBS member TV stations and the PBS digital subchannel World as well as on some local commercial TV stations, including WCBS-TV in New York City. During its run, underwriters included Pfizer, the New York Stock Exchange, and GE (the longest-serving).

sarahell, Tuesday, 6 April 2021 16:04 (two weeks ago) link

The first mention of the McLaughlin group made me lol irl. That show is where titanium white is manufactured

Zach_TBD (Karl Malone), Tuesday, 6 April 2021 16:05 (two weeks ago) link

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McLaughlin_(host)

sarahell, Tuesday, 6 April 2021 16:05 (two weeks ago) link

attempts to paint a certain cultural product as white from ppl who are themselves white are usually done to distance themselves from said culture and carry cachet as a hip not-that-kind-of-white-person

Absolutely. There's been some discussion along these lines in the ILM thread about the Floating Points/Pharoah Sanders album (though it's disguised as classism — calling it "dinner party music" and whatnot), and what strikes me is how thoroughly that erases Pharoah Sanders' agency, when the album was his idea.

but also fuck you (unperson), Tuesday, 6 April 2021 16:06 (two weeks ago) link

Cricket is a phenomenal example of Daniel Rf's truthbomb

imago, Tuesday, 6 April 2021 16:07 (two weeks ago) link

Actually I have seen the McLaughlin thing, it was on some obscure channel over here in the 2000s, an American guy I used to know whose flat I hang out in would watch it, along with other 'American things' like Jackass.

Duncan Disorderly (Tom D.), Tuesday, 6 April 2021 16:09 (two weeks ago) link

isn't cricket also popular in former British colonies?

sarahell, Tuesday, 6 April 2021 16:09 (two weeks ago) link

It's only like a second religion in India.

Duncan Disorderly (Tom D.), Tuesday, 6 April 2021 16:10 (two weeks ago) link

xp - I had actually forgotten that notorious white supremacist Pat Buchanan was a regular on McLaughlin Group

sarahell, Tuesday, 6 April 2021 16:10 (two weeks ago) link

I can't think about the McLaughlin Group without think of Dana Carvey's impersonation

Dana Jel Pey (DJP), Tuesday, 6 April 2021 16:13 (two weeks ago) link

not to be too trenchant but in response to the thread concept, the reason many white ppl do that thing where they disparage white ppl is because they know in their hearts that they are culpable for white supremacy and lack the courage to change the system by so instead they mock it in an impotent attempt at self-disenfranchisement and surface relief from the static guilt of being the oppressor class
your daily reminder that white supremacy - or indeed any form of meritless caste system - benefits no one in the long run.

G.A.G.S. (Gophers Against Getting Stuffed) (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 6 April 2021 16:13 (two weeks ago) link

you might even say it's
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZrrWj_y3Mc

G.A.G.S. (Gophers Against Getting Stuffed) (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 6 April 2021 16:14 (two weeks ago) link

lol I appreciate you, DJP, and also map! Despite the fact that we've all been Very Online for 20 years and usually communicate pretty well, I feel like this is a weird way to have this particular conversation.

For the record I don't have a problem making fun of "whiteness" although it's a subtle art, maybe, and I think a couple of different things are being flattened itt. If white people don't talk to each other about white supremacy, and normalize it like we've normalized talking about...idk colonialism (maybe? I Am Not A Historian), then...what? It can't be left unspoken like we all understand it and it's beneath our dignity to address it.

Ima Gardener (in orbit), Tuesday, 6 April 2021 16:24 (two weeks ago) link

The spotify playlist bit makes me think that “white people talking about whiteness” when it comes to music is usually a white person deciding that a song that was/is ubiquitous during their life that they now find corny or cliche is “white culture” regardless of who actually liked or listened to it!

mh, Tuesday, 6 April 2021 16:25 (two weeks ago) link


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