HIS DARK MATERIALS

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I've just read _The Golden Compass_ and _The Subtle Knife_ and I'm absolutely entranced. I can't wait for my kids to read these books.

Is it fair to compare these to the Harry Potter books (which I've never read and, at this point, don't really intend to)?

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 7 July 2003 14:34 (sixteen years ago) link

I can't wait for my kids to read these books.

I get this vision of Dan leading around a herd of kids a la the Pied Piper.

I have the omnibus of this sucker sitting around. Like too much else in my apartment, one day I'll actually read it.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 7 July 2003 14:39 (sixteen years ago) link

(And FWIW, Dan, there's a movie version in the works...)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 7 July 2003 14:40 (sixteen years ago) link

Northern Lights

mark s (mark s), Monday, 7 July 2003 14:40 (sixteen years ago) link

search the excellent radio 4 dramatisation over christmas just gone.

Ed (dali), Monday, 7 July 2003 14:40 (sixteen years ago) link

I AM SO FUCKING PLEASED THAT THEY'RE MAKING A MOVIE OUT OF THIS SERIES.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 7 July 2003 14:46 (sixteen years ago) link

I'm not, its perfect for radio.

Ed (dali), Monday, 7 July 2003 14:47 (sixteen years ago) link

Maybe, but the radio production that was made was a bit meh.

RickyT (RickyT), Monday, 7 July 2003 14:49 (sixteen years ago) link

More people watch movies than listen to radio serials, though. The more people who are exposed to this story, the better.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 7 July 2003 14:51 (sixteen years ago) link

Dan, there's a major fansite here, go nuts. Details on the next book, movie news, etc. New Line is the studio behind the movie and since they handled LOTR that's a fairly good sign...

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 7 July 2003 14:53 (sixteen years ago) link

I think they're more comparable to Lord of the Rings because they're darker and less silly than Harry Potter, and the invented world is of a greater scope. Also, Dan, stupid question but do you have kids? How old are they? I thought you didn't but I don't read ILX that carefully.

Maria (Maria), Monday, 7 July 2003 14:54 (sixteen years ago) link

I watched a south bank show program abt these books (i taped it and watched it last night) and will def read 'em at some point.

i shold def try and read it before the movie, i suppose (its also being made into a theatre production).

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 7 July 2003 14:54 (sixteen years ago) link

Is it fair to compare these to the Harry Potter books (which I've never read and, at this point, don't really intend to)?

Only sort of. The Potter books are episodic, for one thing, and although there's an overarching plot throughout the series, the books are more concerned with "so, in year two, this stuff happened, and also that other plot got advanced a half-inch or so." There are differences in tone and theme (for lack of a less grammar-schooly term) and whatnot, too, but I think that's the difference you'd notice first.

Also ... post again when you finish the trilogy? Cause the third book is very different, and I know a lot of people were put off by that.

Tep (ktepi), Monday, 7 July 2003 14:54 (sixteen years ago) link

that interview with pullman was so funny esp the bit where he rubbished the narnia books. he came across really well. christopher hitchens tried to place him in a left wing bunker, since pullman doesn't believe in god etc.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 7 July 2003 14:57 (sixteen years ago) link

he rubbished the narnia books? oh no!

Maria (Maria), Monday, 7 July 2003 14:58 (sixteen years ago) link

Also, Dan, stupid question but do you have kids?

Not yet. Check back in a couple of years and I most likely will.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 7 July 2003 14:58 (sixteen years ago) link

WTF is The Golden Compass?

Archel (Archel), Monday, 7 July 2003 14:58 (sixteen years ago) link

_The Golden Compass_ = US title of the first book.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 7 July 2003 14:59 (sixteen years ago) link

OK... do you not have the Northern Lights there?

Archel (Archel), Monday, 7 July 2003 15:02 (sixteen years ago) link

For half of the country, they're only visible every few years, and for the rest they're rarely all that spectacular (and even when they're technically visible, light pollution gets in the way.)

Tep (ktepi), Monday, 7 July 2003 15:09 (sixteen years ago) link

(Also, I think "aurora borealis" is much more commonly used here than "northern lights.")

Tep (ktepi), Monday, 7 July 2003 15:11 (sixteen years ago) link

Also, I think the title change makes sense given the other two books are named after the major implements that they introduce.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 7 July 2003 15:15 (sixteen years ago) link

I'm intrigued as to how a His Dark Materials movie sequence will go down in the USA, considering what happens at the end of the trilogy.

caitlin (caitlin), Monday, 7 July 2003 15:44 (sixteen years ago) link

shhhh!
he hasnt read the third book yet
(i know what you mean, though)

joni, Monday, 7 July 2003 15:56 (sixteen years ago) link

Apparently they are thinking of re-titling the first instalment of the movie in the US as "The Lead Balloon".

Sam (chirombo), Monday, 7 July 2003 15:57 (sixteen years ago) link

I wouldn't put any stock in the idea of a movie. Much better to see this whole thing in your head; any cinematic adaptation would be watered down like county fair beer. ("We've got Anthony Hopkins to play God, so now he's not a senile old drooler, he's hale and hearty! He kicks ass!")

My brother and I have spent hours arguing over these books, but my kids won't even want to read them before age 12, at which point my daughter will be all over them.

Neudonym, Monday, 7 July 2003 16:07 (sixteen years ago) link

Is it fair to compare these to the Harry Potter books (which I've never read and, at this point, don't really intend to)?

Whether it is or not, Steven King did just that in his review of the new Potter book. He claims that Order of the Phoenix is better than any of the books in the books in this series.

Nicole (Nicole), Monday, 7 July 2003 17:51 (sixteen years ago) link

Interesting. Then again, I think that King might be reacting strongly to Pullman's general theological conclusions, as I seem to remember King's a fairly devout Christian. Is there a link?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 7 July 2003 17:53 (sixteen years ago) link

Woah, Stephen King is getting all meta, comparing a book to a book in a book. ;-)

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 7 July 2003 17:57 (sixteen years ago) link

King was raised a devout Christian, but based the mother in Carrie on his own mother ... I think it's safe to say that if he's still religious, it isn't in that sense.

What King probably is reacting strongly to, though, is that Pullman pisses off an inordinate number of writers by giving interviews in which he comes across like he thinks he's the only writer to ever work in a genre and write stories which are about more than dragons and robots and robot dragons -- that it hadn't occurred to anyone else to address some kind of, you know, theme, and possibly employ some characterization and so forth. I like his books, but he's definitely part of this "everyone sucks except me, and possibly several people who are now dead" recent generation of writers.

Tep (ktepi), Monday, 7 July 2003 17:58 (sixteen years ago) link

Ah, that makes more sense. If that is Pullman's attitude indeed, well, he sucks. Still, King was pretty overt about The Stand being a battle between good and evil and all...

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 7 July 2003 18:01 (sixteen years ago) link

I think King ... well, we could derail the thread and I could project like one of those things that ... you know ... projects a lot ... but I think he was raised with a certain powerful, compelling worldview, and even though he doesn't espouse it himself -- or not to the same degree or utility -- he draws on it for fiction because when he reaches for the fastball, that's what comes to hand.

... not, like I said, that I'm projecting or anything :)

Tep (ktepi), Monday, 7 July 2003 18:04 (sixteen years ago) link

Nicely done. ;-) I have to say that based on a variety of essays and introductions I've read that King is generally a perceptive and excellent critic -- his recent one for the edition of Shirley Jackson's The Haunting of Hill House works not only as a discussion of her but of Lovecraft and he makes an excellent (and I think ultimately compelling) argument for Jackson as the better writer that moves beyond the usual attacks directed at Lovecraft.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 7 July 2003 18:08 (sixteen years ago) link

Ned: just because a writer is a self-centered asshole doesn't mean his or her writing is bad. These three books kick more ass than Bear Bryant on a meth-fueled 1964 practice session, and screw what their author says in interviews.

And Stephen King is not innocent hisself. Maybe skeered though.

Neudonym, Monday, 7 July 2003 18:10 (sixteen years ago) link

Oh yeah, the Pullman books are still excellent. I've got a whole mental list of writers I just avoid outside-the-story.

I think in this case -- I'd have to read what he actually said -- King was just blinded. I like both Harry Potter and Pullman, but I can't see how anyone could argue that Order of the Phoenix is better than the Pullman books. It's got that whole "it's about damn time it came out"/"hunger is the best spice" thing going for it, granted.

Tep (ktepi), Monday, 7 July 2003 18:14 (sixteen years ago) link

Ned: just because a writer is a self-centered asshole doesn't mean his or her writing is bad.

Hey now, back up -- I wasn't saying THAT. As noted above, I haven't even read his books yet (though I know something of the general story and approve).

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 7 July 2003 18:18 (sixteen years ago) link

Here's the quote from King:

My own feeling is that they are much better than Philip Pullman's His Dark Materials trilogy, which is their only contemporary competitor. Will kids (and adults as well) still be wild about Harry 100 years from now, or 200? My best guess is that he will indeed stand time's test and wind up on a shelf where only the best are kept; I think Harry will take his place with Alice, Huck, Frodo, and Dorothy, and this is one series not just for the decade, but for the ages.

I would reprint the whole review but I don't want the copyright police after me.

Nicole (Nicole), Monday, 7 July 2003 18:22 (sixteen years ago) link

http://www.ciudadfutura.com/poprock/cheaptrickdream.jpg

PUT DOWN THE COMPUTER, NICOLE.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 7 July 2003 18:25 (sixteen years ago) link

Nicole, keep your head down until Labor Day and the Copyright Police won't be able to come after you (unless they have winter uniforms).

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 7 July 2003 18:31 (sixteen years ago) link

THOSE ARE THE WINTER UNIFORMS YOU FOOL.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 7 July 2003 18:33 (sixteen years ago) link

White after Labor Day? MAJOR FAUX PAX.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 7 July 2003 18:35 (sixteen years ago) link

Copyright police arrest these men/they talk in maths, etc.

Nicole (Nicole), Monday, 7 July 2003 18:38 (sixteen years ago) link

Some military strategist Perry is. CAMOFLAUGE YOU RIDICULOUS MAN.

http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/pic200_web/drp000/p043/p04307mc5wb.jpg

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 7 July 2003 18:42 (sixteen years ago) link

(I am now wishing I'd said, "If those are their winter uniforms, the commanding officer of the Copyright Police must be Major Faux Pas.")

(Is it Pas or Pax? God, I'm hopeless.)

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 7 July 2003 18:43 (sixteen years ago) link

The DanandNed collective would dress the Copyright Police in camo Pink.

Nicole (Nicole), Monday, 7 July 2003 18:43 (sixteen years ago) link

just didn't want you to go too far with that 'if that's his attitude then he sucks' thing, Ned m'boy, you'd be depriving yrself, that's all

Neudonym, Monday, 7 July 2003 18:48 (sixteen years ago) link

My oldest friend (who shares a surname with the evil foster parents in HP) introduced me to Pullman, and loved the first two books - then listened to an interview with PP, and loathed him so much he's not read the last. I have therefore avoided interviews etc. with PP to avoid the risk of similar effects.

I suspect the substance of the themes and the brilliant bravura superscience will be lost in a movie adaptation, which will surely aim at the HP audience. I think these are genuinely great books on all kinds of levels, far better than Tolkien in pretty much every way. They are probably my favourite children's books ever, even ahead of Alan Garner. Well made, a lot of it will look really fabulous, especially duelling polar bears in armour. I hope they don't cop out on the seriousness, or the religious and scientific content.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Monday, 7 July 2003 18:50 (sixteen years ago) link

I hope they don't skimp on the sheer loathsomeness of most of the adults. Lyra's parents = Ma and Pa Dickface.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 7 July 2003 18:53 (sixteen years ago) link

martin those are only yr fave children's books because you've never read mine! [insert emoticon indicating lighthearted way of making a point that's SERIOUS AS A HEART ATTACK]

Neudonym, Monday, 7 July 2003 19:02 (sixteen years ago) link

I didn't know you had written any, Matt! Sorry!

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Monday, 7 July 2003 19:21 (sixteen years ago) link

I liked it. I'm glad it steered clear of all-out exposition but I did have to stop and explain a couple of things to my kids (13 & 11). It generally looked great with a couple of bits of old school Saturday evening telly thrown in, but that's fine.

Life is a meaningless nightmare of suffering...save string (Chinaski), Tuesday, 5 November 2019 16:16 (one month ago) link

I tried watching the film before and I don't think I got much farther than Lyra leaving with Mrs. Coulter, or if I did I don't remember. This is already much better IMO.

the only thing the film has over the series so far is that Nicole Kidman was pretty much a quintessential Coulter.

akm, Tuesday, 5 November 2019 16:25 (one month ago) link

Yeah thought she was more of a siren or whatever.
This one might be ok but I think I have her in the back of my mind.

Stevolende, Tuesday, 5 November 2019 16:30 (one month ago) link

I quite like Ruth Wilson and her weird mouth even if I do keep expecting her to stab someone in the neck any moment.

Life is a meaningless nightmare of suffering...save string (Chinaski), Tuesday, 5 November 2019 16:43 (one month ago) link

Yeah I meran she could be great if I didn't already have an image of the previous actress. May be something I can overcome and will be something that people who didn't see the film won't have to deal with.

Did they start the film thinking they were going to do other parts of the trilogy then not do well at the box office or something?

Also the actor playing Roger has a small part in The Aeronauts. Liked that film a bit not sure how many people would.

Stevolende, Tuesday, 5 November 2019 17:17 (one month ago) link

Yes, the theatrical release performed poorly. There were issues with budget during production. It also faced a TON of (stateside) criticism on grounds of anti-religious sentiment.

remy bean, Tuesday, 5 November 2019 17:22 (one month ago) link

The film is a mess, but it's casting was pretty perfect across the board. The actors they've found for the TV show don't appear to be such obvious fits for their parts, but I'd like to see what they do with it.

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Tuesday, 5 November 2019 17:30 (one month ago) link

ruth wilson is a pretty impressive coulter so far, but mcavoy seems slightly miscast. he's a fine actor, but not an imposing physical presence, and he can't quite achieve the type of haughty, cold, egomania that daniel craig radiates even when he's trying not to.

kanye kendrick frank kendrick frank kanye (voodoo chili), Tuesday, 5 November 2019 17:45 (one month ago) link

This is doing loads right. Some properly tense moments, particularly the golden monkey slapping down Pan. I like how uhurried they've allowed it to be, though I could do without the thread of the magestirium bloke going into our world (not in the book iirc?). Still not entirely convinced by Dafne Keen, her accent is a bit distractingly odd. All other performances are excellent.

chap, Monday, 11 November 2019 11:27 (one month ago) link

It's all a bit flat and characterless for me, the set and costume design is too shiny and ersatz, and McAvoy is boring. Reminds me a bit of the Good Omens show - it only really works as a victory lap for megafans.

Chuck_Tatum, Monday, 11 November 2019 11:43 (one month ago) link

As mentioned upthread, my partner is really into it and she's never read the books so that's not 100 percent true.

chap, Monday, 11 November 2019 12:14 (one month ago) link

The design is maybe not as stunning or interesting as it could have been, but it does the job fine imo.

chap, Monday, 11 November 2019 12:15 (one month ago) link

mcavoy seems slightly miscast. he's a fine actor, but not an imposing physical presence, and he can't quite achieve the type of haughty, cold, egomania that daniel craig radiates even when he's trying not to.

That was my feeling as well. He comes off as a bit too cuddly, even when he's threatening to break Lyra's arm. That he's wearing a sweater for his big Dust presentation doesn't help.

My main concern so far is that Lyra doesn't seem to have the picaresque trickster quality that she has in the books. Sure, she tears around the rooftops doing parkour like any other literary tomboy, but I haven't seen her telling any wild stories or starting wars with the gyptians or doing anything characteristically Lyra yet. And the bit where she almost refused to take the alethiometer because she didn't want to keep secrets was wildly out of character. I'm sure they're planning a character arc where she grows into the Lyra we know, but I hope it happens soon.

Lily Dale, Monday, 11 November 2019 17:31 (one month ago) link

IT's been a while since i read the trilogy but I was trying to remember if there was a suggestion in one of the 2nd 2 books that there had been some interdimensional sliding going on other thna the main protagonists. I know its not introduced until the end of the first book at least and probably not before the beginning of the 2nd. BUt did wonder if this guy who's already doing it might tie in to some point later in the trilogy that might as well be introduced at this point.

Stevolende, Monday, 11 November 2019 17:51 (one month ago) link

Pretty sure that character just shows up later in the books.

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Monday, 11 November 2019 20:39 (one month ago) link

I was just thinking there might have been some suggestion taht they had some history of slipping between dimensions so might have been doing it at this point.
& reason that it wasn't encountered in the book is that pullman hadn't thought of him while writing first book but when he expanded for later volumes he introduced him and a past history of him. BUt has been a while since I read the trilogy.

Stevolende, Monday, 11 November 2019 21:36 (one month ago) link

Pretty sure he's already been mentioned in the show.

Lily Dale, Monday, 11 November 2019 22:05 (one month ago) link

if we're talking about lord boreal, yes he's a castmember and already showed up in episode 1

kanye kendrick frank kendrick frank kanye (voodoo chili), Monday, 11 November 2019 22:10 (one month ago) link

Was actually thinking of Grumman, but yes, Boreal too.

Lily Dale, Monday, 11 November 2019 22:17 (one month ago) link

Nobody slides between universes this early in the actual books, Not sure if people were sliding outside the periphery of the books at the time shown in the first book. Or if anybody might have been shown from later actions to be doing so but outside of the books depiction.
JUst pretty sure taht there were other people sliding than the 2 protagonists.
First book mainly concentrates on actions around Lyra following her kidnapped friend and a couple of underhanded adults to the nOrth which is the springboard into the later pair of books activity. BUt can't remember if other sliders were doing so for first time following the protagonist pair or if they might have been seen to having been doing so for a while before which would mean this chronology with lord boreal wasn't necessarily out of step with what happened in the books, just hadn't been looked at in the remit of the first book at least.

Stevolende, Monday, 11 November 2019 22:25 (one month ago) link

Lord Boreal appears briefly in the first book, but we don't learn that he's spent a long time in our world until the second book.

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Monday, 11 November 2019 23:35 (one month ago) link

I was a big fan of the books but couldn’t make it through half an hour of the new series. Once the kids started singing some weak-ass song we shut it off.

DJI, Monday, 11 November 2019 23:44 (one month ago) link

Right Moodles that was what I was wondering. So it does make some sense to show him sliding at this point since his activity may be needed to set things up for later.
& they've changed the structure from a trilogy of books with one or 2 main protagonists to a series in a different medium where sub plots and more peripheral characters are equally important.

Stevolende, Tuesday, 12 November 2019 06:59 (four weeks ago) link

I haven't seen the TV show yet, but it seems like showing that early on kind of abandons the big reveal of Will's world later, which I thought was one of the cooler twists in the books.

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Tuesday, 12 November 2019 07:05 (four weeks ago) link

Yeah quite probably. But may have a reason since different medium. Have to make some sacrifices etc. I hope they know what they're doing. Has been quite good so far.

Stevolende, Tuesday, 12 November 2019 08:33 (four weeks ago) link

I haven't seen the TV show yet, but it seems like showing that early on kind of abandons the big reveal of Will's world later, which I thought was one of the cooler twists in the books.

This is my feeling too (MINOR SPOILERS), the switch without warning to the mundanity of our own world at the beginning of book 2 was jarring in a good way.

chap, Tuesday, 12 November 2019 10:17 (four weeks ago) link

Wonder if the translation into a different medium was part of consideration. So experience of the punter would be different.
This does have different structure because of elements like that and cannot be following quite the same arc as the books. Not sure what other elements have been reordered as yet.
But do think things like that change quite frequently in that changing of media. Ones encounter with a book is different to one's encounter with a screened image and difference between variations of the latter can be significant I think.

Stevolende, Tuesday, 12 November 2019 10:42 (four weeks ago) link

We’re watching this, have no familiarity with the books, enjoying it so far.

El Tomboto, Wednesday, 13 November 2019 18:43 (four weeks ago) link

I have no recollection of this “weak ass song” from episode one. Episode two was pretty good. I hear ratings dropped off horribly on the BBC

akm, Thursday, 14 November 2019 06:52 (three weeks ago) link

Drag, haven't heard how far they've currently got the go ahead to go. Is this going to be another partial adaptation.
I don't know what could re-interest a general public if they're already losing interest.
Have liked this so far so would like to see it finished at least to a coherent end point even if it doesn't get all the way through the trilogy.

Stevolende, Thursday, 14 November 2019 11:00 (three weeks ago) link

Also don't know how far ahead they are, the point that has been filmed to. Is this going to be something that has complete series already filmed before first episode was shown?
& if foreign markets might lap it up more than the domestic one?

Stevolende, Thursday, 14 November 2019 11:02 (three weeks ago) link

Although it lost viewers it was still the most watched show on tv in the UK at that time slot

A mate works next to Bad Wolf studios in Cardiff and he says they've knocked up lots of Italian looking buildings out of chipboard so assuming that's for Cittàgazze from the second book (which i guess could make an earlier appearance now?)

Second season has already been commissioned (but assume that could change if ratings do completely fall off a cliff)

groovypanda, Thursday, 14 November 2019 11:26 (three weeks ago) link

The third book is my least favourite, but also the one I'm most interested in seeing an adaptation of

Chuck_Tatum, Thursday, 14 November 2019 12:25 (three weeks ago) link

We’re watching this, have no familiarity with the books, enjoying it so far.

Read the books instead! They're great, easy to read, better than the tv show

Chuck_Tatum, Thursday, 14 November 2019 12:26 (three weeks ago) link

Going to be charitable and believe that the jumpy messy pacing of episode 3 is an homage to the messy movie.

mick signals, Monday, 18 November 2019 04:03 (three weeks ago) link

just read the books this week

that guy really hates christianity huh

mookieproof, Monday, 18 November 2019 04:22 (three weeks ago) link

Once the kids started singing some weak-ass song we shut it off.

LOL when that bit happened I was immediately reminded of Byron and his hippy Telepath crew from Babylon 5.

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Monday, 18 November 2019 22:29 (three weeks ago) link

so my son hates this adaptation because he finds the writing really terrible. I half agree; some of the dialogue is way overly expository and unrealistic. c'mon bbc. Other than that I'm enjoying it.

akm, Sunday, 24 November 2019 15:39 (two weeks ago) link

also this Coulter has finally won me over and made me stop wishing it was Nicole Kidman again. She was pretty scary and fierce in this last episode.

akm, Sunday, 24 November 2019 15:40 (two weeks ago) link

I'm simultaneously glad they're taking their time over telling the story and fed up with all the 'people in rooms' aspect of the exposition. Tonight was probably the best episode because something actually seemed to be happening. They've done a good job with Iorek.

Life is a meaningless nightmare of suffering...save string (Chinaski), Sunday, 24 November 2019 22:01 (two weeks ago) link

fed up with all the 'people in rooms' aspect of the exposition.

Yep a lot of the non-Lyra stuff seems like filler. I'm starting to wish they'd done a 6 rather than 8 part adaptation and left those secenes out.

chap, Monday, 25 November 2019 09:21 (two weeks ago) link

Peak levels of “where the fuck is that person’s daemon” in this episode

jacquees, full of cobras (voodoo chili), Thursday, 28 November 2019 14:17 (one week ago) link

In their jacket pocket.

Hey Bob (Scik Mouthy), Thursday, 28 November 2019 14:19 (one week ago) link

i get that they need to save money for armored bears, but when you have a scene about how only witches can separate from their daemons, maybe include the non-witches' daemons in the scene somewhere?

jacquees, full of cobras (voodoo chili), Thursday, 28 November 2019 14:55 (one week ago) link

otherwise, this was probably the best episode yet, and the one where it felt like dafne keen really figured out what lyra is all about.

jacquees, full of cobras (voodoo chili), Thursday, 28 November 2019 14:56 (one week ago) link

Still think she's a but too restrained and well spoken.

chap, Thursday, 28 November 2019 15:41 (one week ago) link

When are we going to find out how the bearded guy got the nickname Farter?

mick signals, Friday, 29 November 2019 19:49 (one week ago) link

Good episode last night, maybe the one I've enjoyed most yet. or felt most emotionally affected by - found the scenes with ghost Billy really powerful. Plus Will Parry! Properly introduced, with dialogue and everything. But no knife yet.

Hey Bob (Scik Mouthy), Monday, 2 December 2019 13:44 (one week ago) link

i like ruth wilson as mrs coulter: she's very good at inhabiting the border between drop-dead charming kick-ass and bad damaged/insane (she is amazing at all this in luther when she first appears, even if they had no idea where to take her in later series, so the casting is almost lazy -- but it's fun also, so hurrah)

i agree that lyra really needed more dido twite (or little my) in her from the outset -- more chaotic glee -- but i like dafne keen's reading all the same: a key point of the character is that she's right at the borderland between child and adult, and she inhabits this very well.

the look of this show is tremendous: sets and costumes, lots of thought put in there -- but the real weakness (and i think it's also the reason lyra doesn't read very clearly very quickly) is that they don't put much work into the dynamics and feel social groups, once the costumes are sorted. the gyptains, the magisterium, the incision scientists, the witches, and so on: as groups they're all a bit flat. each group needs more of a charged stereotype to work with and against -- the way they talk, move, they way they fit together, their energy as an ensemble. the gyptians are probably the least interesting: i can understand why the direction's held back from stereotyping, it's not as if this been a help for travellers and roma socially lo these tens of centuries, but drama isn't improved by tiptoeing, and i don't believe there's no way out from under this conundrum

mark s, Monday, 9 December 2019 21:28 (two days ago) link


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