U.S. Supreme Court: Post-Ginsburg Edition

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Have at it.

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 25 September 2020 15:08 (three years ago) link

I nominate AOC

LaRusso Auto (Neanderthal), Friday, 25 September 2020 15:09 (three years ago) link

i nominate tom cotton, a good guy with a gun

Karl Malone, Friday, 25 September 2020 15:12 (three years ago) link

get in here, goons

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 25 September 2020 15:13 (three years ago) link

Can Trump nominate himself?

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 25 September 2020 15:15 (three years ago) link

and continuing the SCOTUS term limit discussion, reposting the explainer
https://fixthecourt.com/2019/11/myth-facts-scotus-term-limits/

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Friday, 25 September 2020 15:19 (three years ago) link

No idea if these proposed changes are ideal or if they could ever plausibly come to pass, but I like that they are being put out there. It's a good step to start getting people used to the idea of major changes to the court.

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Friday, 25 September 2020 15:24 (three years ago) link

Bryant Johnson, Ruth Bader Ginsburg’s personal trainer, does push-ups as Justice Ginsburg lies in state in the U.S. Capitol.

Full video: https://t.co/vri1sJcUV6 pic.twitter.com/C11uVFeQlQ

— CSPAN (@cspan) September 25, 2020

you are like a scampicane, there's calm in your fries (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 25 September 2020 15:58 (three years ago) link

He isn’t stupid so wtf is he thinking https://t.co/uyEcGDZRIy

— Doug Henwood (@DougHenwood) September 25, 2020

brooklyn suicide cult (Dr Morbius), Friday, 25 September 2020 20:13 (three years ago) link

I'm very sorry but if the pushup video is real it's extremely funny

get a mop and a bucket for this Well Argued Prose (Simon H.), Friday, 25 September 2020 20:17 (three years ago) link

CNN reporting that it's Barrett:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/25/politics/donald-trump-amy-coney-barrett-supreme-court/index.html

jaymc, Friday, 25 September 2020 20:27 (three years ago) link

South Bend is really knocking it out of the park this year.

get a mop and a bucket for this Well Argued Prose (Simon H.), Friday, 25 September 2020 20:34 (three years ago) link

Whoever Trump was going to pick was going to be a horror story, so I expect soon to be reading about the many horrors of Ms. Barrett, which no doubt will be many and hair-raising. Lindsey Graham will love her.

the unappreciated charisma of cows (Aimless), Friday, 25 September 2020 20:37 (three years ago) link

democrats will have grave concerns and strongly worded appeals to decency

Give me a Chad Smith-type feel (map), Friday, 25 September 2020 20:39 (three years ago) link

democratic fundraising will go through the roof, blood will boil, the election will be won (eventually) by democrats. and at the end, it'll be a 6-3 conservative court for the forseeable future, and possible a 5-4 majority for another 20-30 years, unless the golden boy or gorsuch unexpectedly croak, which would be a tragedy

Karl Malone, Friday, 25 September 2020 21:53 (three years ago) link

those are impressive lifespans you're projecting for thomas and alito imo

Doctor Casino, Friday, 25 September 2020 22:39 (three years ago) link

They get magic life drugs injected in their butts

LaRusso Auto (Neanderthal), Friday, 25 September 2020 23:10 (three years ago) link

haha, well it also builds in known unknowns, like republicans preserving a seat in a future GOP presidency. let's role play it

2020 (the present. you are in hell)
barrett is confirmed before election. fuck you liberals
6-3 conservative majority

roberts is 65
thomas is 72
alito is 70
gorsuch is 53
the golden boy is 55
barrett is 48

breyer is 82
sotomayor is 66
kagan is 60

2021 (biden is elected. you are in tartarus)
biden wins. breyer tags out for a younger replacement. i will create SC justice names using this thread Fighting Baseball for Super Famicom: A League of Fake Americans POLL
6-3 conservative majority

roberts is 66
thomas is 73
alito is 71
gorsuch is 54
the golden boy is 56
barrett is 49

sotomayor is 67
kagan is 61
willie dustice is 50

EVENT
2024 election. The democrat has a 70% chance of victory (same as clinton v trump), due to me running this simulation. RNG: no joke, i rolled a random number from 1 to 10, with 1-7 being democratic victory and 8-10 being republican, and i rolled an 8. REPUBLICANS WIN

2025 (tom cotton is the president of the united states. you have killed 2 people now and haven't talked in weeks.)
tom cotton casts Executive Righteousness on thomas, 77 years old, who is replaced by Sleve McDichael
6-3 conservative majority

roberts is 70
alito is 75
the golden boy is 60
barrett is 53
sleve mcdichael is 50

sotomayor is 71
kagan is 65
gorsuch is 58
willie dustice is 54

EVENT
World War III, totally started by tom cotton. 2028 election. The democrat has a 80% chance of victory, due to me running this simulation. RNG: 3, democratic victory

2029 (first influencers on mars)
AOC is the president of the united states of america, fuck yeah. sotomayor, the second oldest justice at 75, taps out. bobsun dugnutt is the new junior united states supreme court justice.
6-3 conservative majority

roberts is 74
alito is 79
gorsuch is 62
the golden boy is 64
barrett is 57
sleve mcdichael is 54

kagan is 69
willie dustice is 58
bobsun dognutt is 50

EVENT
in 2031, the golden boy brett kavanaugh, just 66 years old, FUCKING DIES OUT OF NOWHERE and it's REALLY EMBARRASSING FOR HIM

2031 (VR sex surpasses videogames in revenue generation)
brett kavanaugh fucking dies out of nowhere, best thing that's happened in a generation. president AOC appoints a justice so left-leaning that she's impeached by sergeant ivanka trump, leader of the paramilitary republican subcommittee known as Gold Team. Onson Sweemey, the first justice with a normal name in 11 years, takes the golden boy's spot and shifts the balance toward a near-balance.

5-4 conservative majority

roberts is 76
alito is 81
gorsuch is 64
barrett is 59
sleve mcdichael is 56

kagan is 71
willie dustice is 60
bobsun dognutt is 52
onson sweemey is 50

EVENT
2032 Election. there's no more random numbers, it's just me making it up. the democrats win again. AOC is on the wheaties box.

then, near the end of her second term, the unspeakable happens. Samuel Alito, at the age of 85, just fucking dies out of nowhere.
2035
some observers expect the krang-like brain of mitch mcconnell to somehow delay a democratic confirmation in his spot, but AOC casts total victory and again appoints an extremely-left greatest of time justice named Todd Bonzalez.
5-4 liberal majority

roberts is 80
gorsuch is 68
barrett is 63
sleve mcdichael is 60

kagan is 75
willie dustice is 64
bobsun dognutt is 56
onson sweemey is 54
todd bonzalez is 50

EVENT
2036 Election. it's been 8 years of supreme relaxation and greatness. even gum is genuinely _better_. everything's great. something has to change, so somehow it's time for PRESIDENT CHARLIE KIRK

2037
under PRESIDENT CHARLIE KIRK, roberts immediately resigns. the new chief justice of the united states is SCOTT DOURQUE, 50 years old, catholic conservative
5-4 liberal majority

chief justice scott dourque, 50
gorsuch is 70
barrett is 65
sleve mcdichael is 62

kagan is 77
willie dustice is 66
bobsun dognutt is 58
onson sweemey is 56
todd bonzalez is 52

Karl Malone, Friday, 25 September 2020 23:28 (three years ago) link

I actually think that’s not a terrible way of gaming things out. The arc of the moral universe is long. We fight the fights that we have today, and we train our young folks. Good post KM.

sound of scampo talk to me (El Tomboto), Friday, 25 September 2020 23:32 (three years ago) link

DOGNUTT

LaRusso Auto (Neanderthal), Friday, 25 September 2020 23:32 (three years ago) link

in 2031, the golden boy brett kavanaugh, just 66 years old, FUCKING DIES OUT OF NOWHERE and it's REALLY EMBARRASSING FOR HIM

whoa how did he die?!

superdeep borehole (harbl), Friday, 25 September 2020 23:44 (three years ago) link

Shot by one of Dick Cheney's grandkids

LaRusso Auto (Neanderthal), Friday, 25 September 2020 23:49 (three years ago) link

Karl, that was perfect (ly horrifying).

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 25 September 2020 23:50 (three years ago) link

Shot by one of Dick Cheney's grandkids

― LaRusso Auto (Neanderthal), Friday, September 25, 2020 6:49 PM (four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

At a UB40 reunion concert

jaymc, Friday, 25 September 2020 23:55 (three years ago) link

in 2031, the golden boy brett kavanaugh, just 66 years old, FUCKING DIES OUT OF NOWHERE and it's REALLY EMBARRASSING FOR HIM

whoa how did he die?!

he dies of doing a kegstand in the kitchen of amy klobuchar's wake

Karl Malone, Friday, 25 September 2020 23:57 (three years ago) link

karl this is some excellent scenario running and first rate use of the Fighting Baseball thread and i applaud it

i have a rejoinder percolating but it may take a while to get around to crunching the hard numbers so i just wanted to say that for now

Doctor Casino, Saturday, 26 September 2020 00:00 (three years ago) link

_in 2031, the golden boy brett kavanaugh, just 66 years old, FUCKING DIES OUT OF NOWHERE and it's REALLY EMBARRASSING FOR HIM_

whoa how did he die?!


Under a pile of thousands of baseball tickets.

Boring, Maryland, Saturday, 26 September 2020 00:04 (three years ago) link

xp thanks doctor c! your questioning of that was really valid, and i don't think my answer is any sort of proof of anything. i got lazy and didn't project it out to 2045 (my original goal), but even though i ended with a slim 5-4 liberal majority by 2037, i don't think it takes much to keep it at a 5-4 conservative majority either. then again, maybe the republicans will truly never win again (lol) and it will be 6-3 liberal by 2040, who knows

Karl Malone, Saturday, 26 September 2020 00:08 (three years ago) link

So we get 40 some years of this...from an article Barrett co-wrote as quoted by SCOTUS blog

The article also noted that, when the late Justice William Brennan was asked about potential conflict between his Catholic faith and his duties as a justice, he responded that he would be governed by “the oath I took to support the Constitution and laws of the United States”; Barrett and Garvey observed that they did not “defend this position as the proper response for a Catholic judge to take with respect to abortion or the death penalty.”

https://www.scotusblog.com/2018/07/potential-nominee-profile-amy-coney-barrett/

curmudgeon, Saturday, 26 September 2020 00:53 (three years ago) link

Can't wait for her book, "Jesus is the Speaker of MY House"

LaRusso Auto (Neanderthal), Saturday, 26 September 2020 00:59 (three years ago) link

@ Karl - okay! you've already gotten there, but yeah basically my rejoinder would be that you didn't actually end up showing "a 6-3 conservative court for the forseeable future, and possible a 5-4 majority for another 20-30 years." but the scenario was worth it anyway. a quibble: you don't game out the Senate, which i respect because that would be even more absurd fanfic work, but it's worth allowing at least dice-roll possibilities that the Dems control the Senate during your Republican admins, AND that they stand firm against prematurely ghoulish ideologues like Sleve McDichael, whose pasty-faced appearance and hot-mic comments during the nominations process turn the public against him. i would not put money on that chance myself, but it's at least possible.

also though, a fair bit hinges on that first d10 roll and some choices about the EVENTS - suppose Biden rolls a 6 in 2024, and is re-elected to a foggy but popular second term, his "Reagan in the late 80s" zone, AND ALSO that during that term, Thomas has a health scare and decides to retire. i don't know that the odds are so heavily stacked against something like that.

obviously in that event, Biden's replacement pick would be the mushy, not-all-that liberal Rey McSriff (48), a former bank-industry lobbyist, seen as a move back in the direction of racial and gender diversity on the court who will at least be a reliable liberal vote in civil-rights and abortion cases.

so in january 2029, we've got:

roberts is 74
alito is 79
gorsuch is 62
the golden boy is 64
barrett is 57

kagan is 69
willie dustice is 58
bobsun dognutt is 50
rey mcsriff is 50

eight years of the biden administration have left many festering wounds unaddressed, but thankfully the republican "gold team" have been mostly braying in the margins without control of either congress or the executive to formally empower them. on the other hand, in the absence of the Cotton presidency, World War III has not happened, but let's say AOC wins in 2028 anyway. why not?!

thus, following B.K.'s horrible death in 2031, AOC's super left-wing appointee is able to remain in office. you didn't name them but it's pretty obvious you had Shown Furcotte in mind. maybe kagan is worried enough about the next election, and spooked by what is by then a Sunday-morning-show conventional wisdom about "the Tragedy of Ginsburg," that she retires too. by this point AOC is not fucking around at all and appoints millennial twitter SJW Raul Chamgerlain, 44. if AOC goes on to win a second term and also grabs the Alito seat, then in 2035 we have:

roberts is 80
gorsuch is 68
barrett is 63

raul chamgerlain is 49
willie dustice is 64
bobsun dognutt is 56
rey mcscriff is 56
shown furcotte is 53
todd bonzalez is 50

... and our biggest problem is that sometimes McSriff aligns with the conservatives to dissent in 5-4 corporate-law decisions, and we see a lot of online left grousing about how Biden wasted a pick on her.

now yes, i admit........... this depends on the democrats winning four straight national elections. IMPOSSIBLE you say? or merely... improbable???! depends how much faith you put in changing demographics etc. but if none of the Dem-appointed justices die in office, they can also afford to lose one of those elections! because it might be that the Republicans can only replace Thomas or Alito with McDichael or Dorque, giving them an edge in age but not a leg up in the balance of the court.

Doctor Casino, Saturday, 26 September 2020 15:08 (three years ago) link

todd bonzalez makes history as the first male latino justice

superdeep borehole (harbl), Saturday, 26 September 2020 15:15 (three years ago) link

is there a relevant quote linking Barrett's sect to The Handmaid's Tale?

brooklyn suicide cult (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 26 September 2020 15:40 (three years ago) link

there must be. ominous lord, truth is stranger than fiction

Karl Malone, Saturday, 26 September 2020 15:48 (three years ago) link

xp

doc casino, first of all, obviously i had Shown Furcotte in mind. but secondly, the rest of your scenario seems plausible!

obviously gaming it out like that is a goof, but i did actually learn a few things. or maybe not. i feel like just laying out their ages, combined with the fact that they have lifetime appointments, explains 99% of the game:


christmas near-future:

roberts is 65
thomas is 72
alito is 70
gorsuch is 53
the golden boy is 55
barrett is 48

breyer is 82
sotomayor is 66
kagan is 60

that there is a stacked deck, combined with republican weakness (in terms of what we might expect, possibly overoptimistically, from their presidential chances for the next few decades after elevating a white supremacist fascist to the presidency and then ripping the country to shreds in an attempt to keep him there). even with a couple 2-term democratic administrations in a row, through 2036, there is still a decent chance that at least 5 or even all 6 of the conservative majority stays right where they are, their ass-molds worn deep

Karl Malone, Saturday, 26 September 2020 16:00 (three years ago) link

in unrelated news, just before i fell asleep face down on the couch last night, i ran across a disturbing headline about increasing the maximum human lifespans beyond its current soft limit of 125. apparently the consensus is that it will soon (10 years?) be possible to extend human lifespans using genetic modifiers, physical devices, and secret codes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_extension jfc

Karl Malone, Saturday, 26 September 2020 16:07 (three years ago) link

agreed, it's a useful exercise to grasp exactly how much the age advantage of the GWB and DJT appointees presses on into the future. but also, focusing too much on that just takes us into a zone of gloom, so unless it's directly useful for motivating present-day action and the long-term fight, i think it's also useful to bear in mind all the ways that the scenario could suddenly break down. nobody saw Scalia's death coming, for example, even though he was 79. that ended up working out horribly for the cause of justice and freedom, but it could have gone differently. so long as our rights are subject to these bizarre matters of fate and circumstance, we may as well remind ourselves that there are ways the probabilistic parts could break our way.

and the stacked deck there does look better the moment Biden can replace Breyer, which i think we all do need to be praying for (or whatever equivalent practice).

and... all these scenarios also presume a successful barrett confirmation. tbh, i'm pretty doom-and-gloom about that, seems like there's no reason to think it won't happen. but it's still probably not good for my head to already accept her as a solid number until 2049 or w/e. like if i'm driving myself crazy with all the bad things that have already happened, and the ones that could probably happen, and the ones that are near-certainties, that's a lot to do to my head, if i'm not also considering the good equivalents of all of those things.

Doctor Casino, Saturday, 26 September 2020 16:27 (three years ago) link

there's also some non-zero chance that, in the event that a Democrat wins the presidential race four times in a row and this permanent 5-4 Court keeps shutting down every exciting thing the people are turning out to vote for, then a mandate for court-packing develops much much more quickly than we might expect right now.

Doctor Casino, Saturday, 26 September 2020 16:30 (three years ago) link

so long as our rights are subject to these bizarre matters of fate and circumstance, we may as well remind ourselves that there are ways the probabilistic parts could break our way.

otm

i know that's not a convincing or comforting thought for everyone, but to me that really is what gives me hope

Karl Malone, Saturday, 26 September 2020 16:44 (three years ago) link

NEW: Senate Democrats say they will press President Trump’s SCOTUS nominee to commit to recuse herself if the justices hear a case that could impact the outcome of the fall elections, @mkraju reports.

— Ana Cabrera (@AnaCabrera) September 25, 2020

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 26 September 2020 16:44 (three years ago) link

That seems a little dumb

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Saturday, 26 September 2020 16:46 (three years ago) link

I mean it makes sense but they'd still have a 5-3 advantage anyway

LaRusso Auto (Neanderthal), Saturday, 26 September 2020 16:49 (three years ago) link

"Will you commit to not doing the exact thing you were hired for" is a dumb question

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Saturday, 26 September 2020 16:52 (three years ago) link

and... all these scenarios also presume a successful barrett confirmation. tbh, i'm pretty doom-and-gloom about that, seems like there's no reason to think it won't happen

i will continue to return to my dumb "we simulate the future and then experience it in real time, somehow diminished, as something that was already familiar" theory, until someone or something convinces me that it's not accurate. in that line of thinking, you can already see the barrett confirmation and how it happens. i already saw a headline, last night, talking about how barrett was confirmed in October. i looked at the calendar and it was september 25th, then re-read the headline and it still said that she was confirmed in October, past tense. i can't remember where i saw it, and i had a socially distanced hangout with a friend last night and got way too drunk. but still, it was there all the same.

that was just a drunken horror, but i woke up today and it's still there. the republicans have the votes. 2 have been allowed to deviate (murkowski and collins), which just so happens to allow exactly enough remaining republicans to unilaterally install barrett. what a coincidence. this outcome has already been focus-grouped on a national scale - it turns out that most republicans think it's a great idea, most democrats think it's a bad idea, and the majority of "independents" think it's a bad idea. it sounds like most ideas these days. so they'll do it, because they can.

we're currently simulating the outraged response, right now. at least, i am. and then, when it happens, it won't be the first time.

---

^i think all of that is a very bad way to go about thinking about life, believe it or not. but that's what i see happening over and over, lately.

Karl Malone, Saturday, 26 September 2020 16:55 (three years ago) link

xpost they're not asking her to not be a justice, they're saying 'Hey, you were literally just nominated by one of the President candidates in this election 5 minutes before the election, maybe it's a conflict of interest for you ruling on a case challenging his results".

LaRusso Auto (Neanderthal), Saturday, 26 September 2020 16:56 (three years ago) link

But this is the primary reason they are in such a rush. If she can't guarantee to hand over the election, it's pointless for Trump. Surely he already told her she needs to deliver that vote, or there would be a different pick.

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Saturday, 26 September 2020 16:59 (three years ago) link

lol of course it's not going to actually happen but would you rather the Democrats not try it first so that they can frame it as "Justice Coney Barrett refused to recuse, she and Trump win, while Americans lose!"

LaRusso Auto (Neanderthal), Saturday, 26 September 2020 17:03 (three years ago) link

I mean, compared to other things they should be trying, this is VERY low on my list of importance and I wouldn't want it to take the place of promising to pack the fuck out of courts, but we're kinda fucked unless someone has a McCain surprise during the vote.

LaRusso Auto (Neanderthal), Saturday, 26 September 2020 17:04 (three years ago) link

what does it say. x no longer even works for me as a link.

you need a big big demonstration abouuuuut now.

a single gunshot and polite applause (Hunt3r), Thursday, 29 February 2024 00:31 (two days ago) link

Tweet said delay was not as long as Trump wanted .

curmudgeon, Thursday, 29 February 2024 16:18 (two days ago) link

... and why that's good, actualluy

Maxmillion D. Boosted (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 29 February 2024 16:22 (two days ago) link

... but is bad news for President Biden.

Humanitarian Pause (Tracer Hand), Thursday, 29 February 2024 16:32 (two days ago) link

Two different things can be true:

#SCOTUS *isn’t* moving as fast as it possibly could/as fast as many folks want it to in resolving Trump’s immunity appeal; and

SCOTUS *is* moving much faster than Trump wanted it to *and* much faster than it does in virtually all of its cases

curmudgeon, Thursday, 29 February 2024 16:59 (two days ago) link

Two different things can be true:

#SCOTUS *isn’t* moving as fast as it possibly could/as fast as many folks want it to in resolving Trump’s immunity appeal; and

SCOTUS *is* moving much faster than Trump wanted it to *and* much faster than it does in virtually all of its cases

curmudgeon, Thursday, 29 February 2024 17:00 (two days ago) link

Two different things can be true:

#SCOTUS *isn’t* moving as fast as it possibly could/as fast as many folks want it to in resolving Trump’s immunity appeal; and
Nottingham Forest should be relegated

CEO Greedwagon (Neanderthal), Thursday, 29 February 2024 17:11 (two days ago) link

Just asking, Hunt3r: what would change as the result of a demonstration?

I was at almost every big antiwar demonstration of the 90s (both gulf wars) and the wars still happened. I was at the Million Mom March and gun violence still rages. My wife and daughter went to the 2017 Women's March (the one with the hats) and then Roe v. Wade was overturned a few years later.

I am not preaching despair, just noting that big demonstrations have had a poor batting average lately.

alpaca lips now (Ye Mad Puffin), Thursday, 29 February 2024 17:57 (two days ago) link

I'd say the Women's March and followups certainly buoyed me and millions of others into voting in the 2018 midterms but ymmv

poppers fueled buttsex crescendo (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 29 February 2024 18:02 (two days ago) link

demonstrations are supposed to give way to further escalations, they are supposed to be the warning that "there are many of us, and we are angry, and if things don't change, the next time we show up, things will not be so peaceful".

but nobody really has the stomach to riot after a high school kid got to murder two protesters without consequence

CEO Greedwagon (Neanderthal), Thursday, 29 February 2024 18:06 (two days ago) link

"those demonstrations got us to vote" man I'm sorry but this is pathetic.

In the end, we know what will work, it's just that none of us want to talk about it.

butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table), Thursday, 29 February 2024 18:18 (two days ago) link

You go first, tough guy.

poppers fueled buttsex crescendo (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 29 February 2024 18:22 (two days ago) link

The US isn't going to spawn a militant mass movement to overthrow the current hierarchy and seize power. Talking about it isn't going to get us any closer.

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Thursday, 29 February 2024 18:24 (two days ago) link

I think we should decide which one of us gets to become a billionaire donor to the Democratic Party and then we can dictate to the party what we want. I volunteer for this dangerous task.

from a prominent family of bassoon players (Boring, Maryland), Thursday, 29 February 2024 18:29 (two days ago) link

ymp point taken, admitted. you are each correct. imo.

a single gunshot and polite applause (Hunt3r), Thursday, 29 February 2024 18:30 (two days ago) link

i was just talking about big big demonstations. the best demonstrations.

a single gunshot and polite applause (Hunt3r), Thursday, 29 February 2024 18:31 (two days ago) link

Marxist junior officers in the US military should institute a bloodless coup, and nationalize key industries--it worked in Portugal in '75!

from a prominent family of bassoon players (Boring, Maryland), Thursday, 29 February 2024 18:34 (two days ago) link

In the end, we know what will work, it's just that none of us want to talk about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVmYspx9qnI

EMPRETY UKXEPCTED TWITS (President Keyes), Thursday, 29 February 2024 18:35 (two days ago) link

what we talk about when we talk about things we don't want to talk about, a new play

from a prominent family of bassoon players (Boring, Maryland), Thursday, 29 February 2024 18:38 (two days ago) link

You go first, tough guy.


“it got us to vote for the oligarchic party of vampires sucking this country dry and killing people overseas that I prefer!”

butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table), Thursday, 29 February 2024 18:39 (two days ago) link

*shrugs* I like being bitten in the neck.

poppers fueled buttsex crescendo (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 29 February 2024 18:44 (two days ago) link

table I believe your intentions are good but I think the "Mr. Choppy" stuff is, frankly, kinda ghoulish.

alpaca lips now (Ye Mad Puffin), Thursday, 29 February 2024 18:47 (two days ago) link

I am a tad happier w/ the lesser evil vampires than the let’s ban Muslims ones , but I recognize that on some issues they’re looking equivalent. Since this is the Supreme Court thread , I am a happier with the appointments to the court by the lesser evil vampires, but again recognize there are issues

curmudgeon, Thursday, 29 February 2024 18:52 (two days ago) link

Mr. Choppy is a nice fantasy, I sympathize with Tabes on that. But any sort of left-wing violent uprising in this country would be crushed easily even more violently, and an excuse for instituting more repression; or it would be hijacked into a populist/fascist anti-other pogrom.

from a prominent family of bassoon players (Boring, Maryland), Thursday, 29 February 2024 18:56 (two days ago) link

table, I really don't think you are wrong and I appreciate your passion, but it often comes across like you are coming at us other posters for the lack of choices. I think we can all agree that the "choice" we get this November is a farce and completely depressing, but coming at us as if we're all just too stupid to see that feels really unhelpful at best, super condescending at worst. we see it too, there's just not much we can do beyond advocating for change down ballot and supporting the orgs making a difference. come November though, I'm going to plug my nose and vote for the lesser of two evils that hasn't specifically outlined plans to deport, ban or outright slaughter people I know and love.

Maxmillion D. Boosted (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 29 February 2024 19:01 (two days ago) link

(and yes I realize that choice will still support, indirectly, the slaughter of other people still. but either choice is going to get us there because, well, fuck America. but I'll take the small shifts I can.)

Maxmillion D. Boosted (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 29 February 2024 19:02 (two days ago) link

table, I really don't think you are wrong and I appreciate your passion, but it often comes across like you are coming at us other posters for the lack of choices. I think we can all agree that the "choice" we get this November is a farce and completely depressing, but coming at us as if we're all just too stupid to see that feels really unhelpful at best, super condescending at worst.

Seconding all of this. Many of us have been on message boards for twenty-five years, and if I didn't know you, table, I'd say you came across as another posturing blowhard based on your most bombastic posts.

poppers fueled buttsex crescendo (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 29 February 2024 19:05 (two days ago) link

and I know you're not because, again, I've been reading you since the late '00s.

poppers fueled buttsex crescendo (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 29 February 2024 19:05 (two days ago) link

Just fwiw, my initial post was more stating a reality: we do all know what could change things, but we are either too afraid to engage with them (for entirely fair reasons— "you can't trust violence" is an iconic Low lyric for a reason!!) or we're too in thrall to things working as they are.

On the latter point, what would it take for every single even mildly left-wing person in the US to not go to work for a day? A week? A month? They can't fire us all, and the sheer amount of economic damage it would cause might really change some things. A general strike could do wonders, but so many people have been gaslit into the false gospel of workerism that I doubt such a major action could ever be pulled off. Still, I maintain *some* modicum of hope in that regard.

Basically, I feel like there's too much comfort, and I indict myself as part of that comfortable class (as Alfred rightly did, too), despite my own economic struggles. There's a resignation to the "choice" that we "have" to make that I want more of us to reject, because I don't actually think that we're resigned to this pale imitation of what life should be. We're all dreaming and desirous of something better, so why not try to actually *do* something about it instead of simply continuing to engage with a system that isn't built for us?

butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table), Thursday, 29 February 2024 22:30 (two days ago) link

On the latter point, what would it take for every single even mildly left-wing person in the US to not go to work for a day? A week? A month?

Deposit $20,000 into each of their bank accounts in advance.

Tahuti Watches L&O:SVU Reruns Without His Ape (unperson), Thursday, 29 February 2024 22:35 (two days ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vqgdSsfqPs

alpaca lips now (Ye Mad Puffin), Thursday, 29 February 2024 22:40 (two days ago) link

See? A post about wanting something better, met with utter cynicism and a basic "shut the fuck up hippie" implied. And people wonder why I resort to bombast.

butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table), Thursday, 29 February 2024 22:45 (two days ago) link

Everyone here wants something better. We may disagree on the means, but you are wrong if you think we disagree on the desired ends.

alpaca lips now (Ye Mad Puffin), Thursday, 29 February 2024 22:49 (two days ago) link

I won't try to speak for what unperson meant, but I didn't read cynicism so much as sad realism. I mean, everywhere I look I see coworkers so brow-beaten by capitalism that, even after a global pandemic, they won't even skip work when feeling deathly ill with a contagious illness. Those people aren't going to be convinced to participate in a general strike, even if the support it. The terror of losing your job, more key your access to insurance, is so hard-wired in folks that I just can't see it happening as much as it is needed.

Maxmillion D. Boosted (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 29 February 2024 22:51 (two days ago) link

you are wrong if you think we disagree on the desired ends.

https://heygrillhey.com/static/f0c62ab3592ac05efafd719f308ecc88/Brisket-Burnt-Ends.png

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 29 February 2024 22:52 (two days ago) link

A post about wanting something better, met with utter cynicism and a basic "shut the fuck up hippie" implied.

Dude, come on. Most people in America who are likely to be open to a left-wing political message are also likely to be in positions of economic precarity, for a variety of reasons: shitty job, too many kids, health issues, whatever. They can't afford to stop working. I could probably afford to take a month off work, but what would it solve? If I won the Powerball, I would achieve my political goals through bribes, but in what universe is "economic damage" gonna push a country like the US left?

Tahuti Watches L&O:SVU Reruns Without His Ape (unperson), Thursday, 29 February 2024 22:53 (two days ago) link

As I high school student in April 1970 I owned and wore a t-shirt emblazoned with a large stylized fist upraised and the word "STRIKE!", all in bright red and legible from 100 ft away. I'm sure we all recall the resulting general strike after Kent State killings that paralyzed the US economy a few universities and colleges, mostly in NY and CA.

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Thursday, 29 February 2024 23:00 (two days ago) link

Unperson otm. I have a wife and two kids and a mortgage. All I would gain from a general strike would be divorce, eviction, and homelessness. Tell me how that improves things. I'll wait. Take your time. I would love to hear a workable and constructive plan.

alpaca lips now (Ye Mad Puffin), Thursday, 29 February 2024 23:02 (two days ago) link

Ah yes, we all want something better but aren’t willing to do fucking anything to get it. Great strategy there.

butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table), Thursday, 29 February 2024 23:15 (two days ago) link

Well, there is systemic "better" and then there is local better. Volunteering at a homeless shelter or a food pantry, say, or mentoring and tutoring at-risk kids, actions such as these may not solve systemic problems, but it does make lives better. So I guess that is better with an asterisk. Still, I doubt the people working hard toward at least a semblance of better would appreciate being dismissed as not good enough.

I would not consider myself an optimist, but I am frequently buoyed by the energies and initiatives of people I see actually working hard toward goals for the good of society, whether full-time labor organizers or just volunteers trying to work with(in) a broken system.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 29 February 2024 23:35 (two days ago) link

we all want something better but aren’t willing to do fucking anything to get it.

We can see you are angry about this. Hmmm. What else was there. Oh, yes.

I indict myself as part of that comfortable class (as Alfred rightly did, too)

So, you recognize you are part of the "we" you're so angry at. But, when you think about this in terms of asking yourself what's stopping you from changing, what kind of answers do you get? Is it really that you are "too comfortable" as you proposed earlier? And if you broke out of that comfort what would you do differently?

I ask, because all of us have asked ourselves these exact same questions and attempted our own honest answers. Since you have not just indicted yourself for the state of the world (ilx is transnational), but seem to be indicting the rest of us as well, I'd like to hear what you consider to be the honest answers to your self-indictment and what those answers mean to you.

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Thursday, 29 February 2024 23:45 (two days ago) link

If the real answer is you are just venting frustration, that's OK, but realize you're yelling at us for a frustration we didn't cause and can't fix and we are frustrate, too.

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Thursday, 29 February 2024 23:46 (two days ago) link

We’re pretty much in the midst of a slow cascading collapse of the Liberal Establishment with no ability to affect any of it on a national level(for a while, at least), and all we can do besides getting involved locally is just vent and yell at each other online.

It sucks because all the false fronts of mass democracy still exist and still get sold to and browbeaten into us, but the linkages have either be allowed to rot away or were sold 25 years ago.

Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Thursday, 29 February 2024 23:51 (two days ago) link

Nobody is happy about it, but the best we can do electorally at this point is to let the makeup of the SCOTUS guide our voting decisions. That is where our votes can have the most immediate real world impact. Also where inaction and protest voting will have generational negative impacts that can do incalculable damage (there is currently no higher political power in this country) which can’t be erased or undone unless karma, death, the presidency, and the Senate all line up in the “good” column, multiple times. Which is a pipe dream.

epistantophus, Friday, 1 March 2024 02:36 (yesterday) link

Trump ascending to the presidency was far from the worst thing that happened when HRC lost. The indirect damage of three Trump appointed SC justices ranks 1000x worse.

epistantophus, Friday, 1 March 2024 02:39 (yesterday) link

^^^^^^

a (waterface), Friday, 1 March 2024 13:13 (yesterday) link

any of the federal judges he appointed, really

a (waterface), Friday, 1 March 2024 13:14 (yesterday) link

https://www.scotusblog.com/2024/02/supreme-court-likely-to-block-epa-ozone-regulation/

Supreme Court conservative majority likely to block EPA ozone regulation BEFORE a lower court has even ruled on it!

The Supreme Court on Wednesday appeared sympathetic to a group of states, companies, and trade associations seeking to temporarily block a rule issued by the Environmental Protection Agency to reduce air pollution from power plants and other industrial facilities in 23 states that do not want to adjust their emissions policies. During approximately 90 minutes of oral arguments, the court’s conservative justices voiced skepticism about the process that the EPA followed in implementing the rule, while the court’s liberal justices questioned the wisdom of putting the rule on hold before any lower court has had a chance to weigh in.

The law at the center of the case is known as the “good neighbor” provision of the Clean Air Act. It requires “upwind” states to reduce emissions that affect the air quality in “downwind” states.

In 2015, the EPA issued new air-quality standards for ozone pollution, which at high levels can cause major health problems. The new EPA standards triggered an obligation for states to submit plans to indicate both how they would comply with those standards and, in particular, how they would reduce emissions that affect the air quality in downwind states.

curmudgeon, Friday, 1 March 2024 15:03 (yesterday) link

well, cool, that'll save everyone time and money!

poppers fueled buttsex crescendo (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 1 March 2024 15:21 (yesterday) link

xps Trump ascending to the presidency and ALL court appointments go hand in hand - it was a major reason why the GOP refused to disavow and hedged their criticisms during the campaign because it was obvious to them how much they'd gain since they were already projected to retain control of the Senate (as well as Congress, which would mean massive legislative victories outside of judiciary picks). One of the most aggravating things about the 2016 election was how too many voters failed to realize this even though it should've been blatantly clear by everything the GOP had been attempting in the past couple of years and how Obama's veto or decisions were literally the only thing getting in the way.

birdistheword, Friday, 1 March 2024 17:18 (yesterday) link


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