love* in the time of plague (and by love* i mean brexit* and other dreary matters of uk politics)

guess what we're all gnna do lol

choked for the madness

was this on the previous thread? (= gov.uk guidance on social distancing and protecting vulnerable-people

this government is going to be hoping everyone forgets what their original policy for this was, and the crucial delay it caused. let's not forget

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/image_data/file/97304/vulnerable_people3-960.jpg

* if one member of your family or household has a new continuous cough or high temperature
** if you live alone and you have a new continuous cough or high temperature
*** for example cinema, theatre, pubs, bars, restaurants, clubs
**** for example via telephone or internet
1 such as anyone instructed to get a flu jab each year

(embedded chart from the gov.uk site, "underlying health conditions" is expanded on at the link

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/mar/17/coronavirus-uk-must-ramp-up-public-spending-in-wartime-situation-budget-watchdog-head

Speaking to MPs on the Treasury committee, he said: “This is not a time to be squeamish about one-off additions to the public debt. It’s more like a wartime situation that this is money well spent.”

“The more serious this is, the more blunderbuss the approach. When the fire is large enough you just spray the water and worry about it later. I think that’s likely to be the direction.”

Head of the OBR basically going 'fuck budget responsibility right now'. Except a further search has revealed that Robert Chote is due to leave shortly so IDK if that's just demob talk.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/boris-johnson-coronavirus-latest-chris-whitty-press-conference-a9405356.html

On Monday afternoon, at a press conference in Downing Street, prime minister Boris Johnson announced some of the most draconian measures in this country’s history.

Well, apparently he did anyway, as that’s what everyone keeps saying, but I’ve watched it back twice now and I’m not sure I can actually find any.

^^^^this this this

Every response seems to be about avoiding liability and protecting insurers.

Prof Neil Ferguson, of Imperial College London and director of the MRC Centre for Global Infectious Disease Analysis, said that while it was not fully understood whether children transmitted the virus in the same way as other illnesses, school closures was a measure that could have an effect.

Speaking to the BBC Radio 4 Today programme on Tuesday, Ferguson said: “From a purely epidemiological perspective we think, with a lot of uncertainty, that closing schools and universities would further reduce transmission.”

latest is a draconian international travel ban which isn't actually a travel ban, just more advice with "on your own head be it"

it's stronger I think - that FCO "advice" is what travel insurance is based on, so if you travel to those places you are not insured. As a result most companies won't let you travel to places FCO advises against.

home sick today. just got a call to say that they've made people at work redundant but not me.

Just seen that Laura Ashley has gone into receivership, my sister in law is a branch manager currently off sick with a bad foot.

The government’s earlier hopes that it could rely on large proportions – maybe 60% – of the population getting ill, getting better and becoming immune to build up some herd immunity in the UK population are dashed by this strategy, which many experts thought was dangerous anyway. Herd immunity is normally created by vaccinating large numbers of children, safeguarding those who cannot be inoculated. Nobody has ever tried to do that by allowing infection with a disease before – and now, it appears to have been recognised that it’s not safe to try..

Keep reading this paragraph and just... what

Fucking surreal to see swathes of the commeltariat (and the public ffs!) commending them for “responding” to this “new data”. PSA: you’ll never be able to stop touching your face if you’re addicted to tugging your forelock

Can’t kiss the ring if you’re too busy licking the boot!

lol challenge accepted

Sorry to C&P from a random "nhs worker" on FB but I kind if like this explanation (probably because my brain works best with video games and process managenent):

The plan is to segregate all vulnerable people (older, ill, disabled and at risk) let’s call this group A

Anyone looking after the older, ill and at risk can be group B

The general population / generally healthy can be group C

Group C needs to go about its business keeping the country moving, kids at school, us at work

Group B looks after group A and avoids contact with C

Group C is allowed to contract the virus and because it’s generally healthy it can cope with it better than group A

Group A and B are almost self isolating without the virus to avoid putting strain on the NHS and reducing the risk of getting the virus and then needing the NHS

Group C (the generally healthy) go through the cycle of contracting the virus, self-isolating and being looked after by healthy family members, friends and the local community

Anyone who has complications gets looked after by the NHS while groups A and B are kept away The NHS are not strained by A and B while it's looking after complicated cases in C

As group C comes full circle and recovers it divides in to groups that take group B’s position looking after group A allowing group B to go though the cycle

With B and C though the cycle, A is free to have NHS to itself because B and C are now clear from illness and infection and hopefully have a degree of immunity from getting it again this season.

from guardian liveblog:

Islington food bank in north London has announced it is to close after running low on food stocks and losing many of its volunteers who have been forced to self-isolate to avoid coronavirus infection.

The food bank, part of the Trussell trust network, is understood to be the first of the trust’s 426 food banks to close. The trust said no others had yet reported difficulties but it was carrying out a rapid survey of its members to gauge “pressure points”.

Oh, fuck.

That's been a thing over here for some days now, too. Supplies have completely dried up due to hoarding in the supermarkets.

the tory govt for the last decade have always dithered over a full Universal Credit rollout to pull in all the millions of legacy claimants in what the DWP sugarcoats it as a proposed "managed migration". They keep putting it off imo because i/ the system probably can't deal with the numbers without breaking down and ii/ plunging too many people into to such a shitty system at once brings a risk of increasing social unrest and all the extra costs associated with increased poverty. Just my bullshit opinion!

But now there will be millions of people from all the tourism, hospitality/events industries - I saw a list the other day and it's at least 5 million + jobs that will be toast and they can't all become fucking *m*z*n delivery drivers. This is why the Tories are shitting themselves right now and Raab is saying nice things about Cuba. Of course it is a monumental crisis that has landed on them, but many more people than previously or than they ever expected are going to be exposed to how fucking evil and completely inadequate the benefits system has become after ten years of their reforms, fucking chickens coming home to roost time imo!

Mutual aid groups already falling into yer leftist org pattern of being both overstructured and chaotic. Had to go from Facebook to Whatsapp to Slack. Still it's great to see ppl are helping each other out.

Hackney foodbank desperately asking for both donations and volunteers rn.

I was talking about this yesterday; I will stay in as much as I can but if the antibody test was widely available then we would know for sure if we’d had it or have it. I’d love to help out with something like that but it’s so frustrating because of the risk of endangering people, and so unless I get very sick or hospitalised, what do I do?

Royal Mail staff union says they have voted to become an emergency service, delivering essential supplies etc

They won’t test people unless they are hospitalised or there is confirmed community transmission in the area, right, which latter can only be confirmed... by testing? More like COVID-22 imo

Group B looks after group A and avoids contact with C

This strikes me as pretty much impossible and where the whole strategy falls down?

It's not the most nuanced plan but in big buckets of minimising contact rather than eliminating it I can see it would help to manage the demand.

All probably moot though as it all seems too late to me

Why 'plague' and not 'cholera'?

here we go

Sunak: "This effort will be underpinned with government intervention in the economy unimaginable only months ago"

Says it's "not a time for ideology or orthodoxy". Get ready for some mega, mega spending...

— Lewis Goodall (@lewis_goodall) March 17, 2020

I'm going to bet I could imagine them a few weeks ago

Rishi : 330 billion govt backed loans for businesses

he really needs a fucking editor, he takes 1000 words and hasn't got to a single factual announcement yet xp ok 1

specific support for restaurants, pubs, etc, and those insured should be covered

not a word about people yet

https://images.app.goo.gl/pvKjMquTAZ2QpZmZ8

3-mo mortgage holiday

(for those affected)

you'd think COVID 19 was a virus that just attacks businesses after listening to that long-winded cunt.

"this is no time for ideology" ..pretty much sounded like prioritising our precious wealth creators to me.

Nothing about people on rent or their bills?

Not that I heard, it was all about our poor beleaguered wealth creators to my ears.

such as anyone instructed to get a flu jab each year

do they not advise flu shots for everyone over there? Seems silly.

The measures are necessary because the alternative is a gigantic spike in unemployment and the collapse of some sectors, but the lack of rent measures is outrageous, particularly when mortgage holidays are already on the table.

Nothing about statutory sick pay either?

so landlords stop paying their mortgages but renters have to keep paying them rent?

"Sunak insisted that an employment support package was on its way, and that he needed to finalise the details first with business and the unions"

£330m doesn't feel like anywhere near enough.

someone is dying and dr sunak is trying to negotiate terms and conditions with them before he agrees to any emergency treatment

The measures are necessary because the alternative is a gigantic spike in unemployment and the collapse of some sectors

this is both true and a key reason why fuck this society at the same time

many more people than previously or than they ever expected are going to be exposed to how fucking evil and completely inadequate the benefits system has become

This is key

Motability.

compulsory Sure Starts for everybody under 25

Lol!

Someone commented t'other day that Keith would probably consider Sure Start a bit too Old Labour.

i worked for a Sure Start, really feels like i was at the heart of Blairite darkness tbh

The point being he is a bit to the right of Blair!

The only other conceivable reason for playing down the differences between Miliband and the Labour left would be if one genuinely believed that they didn’t exist, and I really don’t want to believe that – even in these disorientating times – comrades are that stupid. Going back to the pre-Corbyn era of a parliamentary left small, fragmented and reduced to begging for minor concessions from non-socialists would represent the dying whimper of the Corbynite movement and everything it fought for.

When these FBPEers angrily denounce Cameron as the sole cause of Brexit I don't buy it. The forces of Brexit were there and both parties were playing with fire and fuelling populist bigotry. Some other worthless fucker would have let the djinn out of the bottle sooner or later.

tbh I say much the same about Thatcherism but the referendum and its wording were a product of a very specific set of issues within the Tory Party

The entire country: "we can't get a test"
Priti Patel: "yes you can shut up"

I agree with the view that Miliband as PM would have meant none of the FBPE garbage, and I think that's a great point in favour of that alternate timeline.

I think that for some of us, before JC the sense of real political space was more limited - I literally could no longer even imagine a leader to the left of Ed M. He seemed as good as we could possibly get, and he was generally assailed for being a dangerous socialist. From this POV it was quite logical to support him.

I suppose different judgments can be made about now.

I agree that Thatcherism wasn't the product of one person but a much bigger process.

The EU ref was a part of the endless Tory factional game and or the bastards as Major called them, but my point is in opposition they would have been putting immense pressure on Labour for it to happen.

There still could still could have been a get the EU ref done election with Labour on the losing side. But as someone who is now gone once said to me : if Ifs and (sic) Ans were pots and pans!

One of the things that makes the alternate history trickier is the question of who'd have succeeded Cameron? Without the successful Leave campaign, Boris would still be a clown - Gove might be the natural successor from the Cameron camp (Gideon might not follow Cameron but he'd also have got a kicking for austerity) but there'd be a contingent that would consider the whole cuddlier Tories a failed endeavour, and they might get a monster through - it might still be May! Jesus, imagine 5 years of the Tories kicking the shit out of each other?

Miliband Labour would have been put under intense scrutiny by our lol Free Press and the BBC. That dogwhistle attack by the Sun would have just been a warm up.

Charlie Elphicke's going to jail, doo-dah, doo dah!

"an" = achaic word for "if"

An it harm none, do what ye will

so this person who is now gone (bcz also archaic?) was right not wrong

thanks for that Mark - I was doing them a disservice!

Osborne was always meant to be Cameron’s successor, Gove wasn’t a Cameronite, he was the price of satiating Murdoch.

Meant to be in their heads, sure, but after a Blair-Brown transfer not an election loss, I'd have thought.

Charlie Elphicke applied for legal aid and it was refused. He owes his estranged wife Natalie £100,000 which she loaned him for legal fees, he owes more than that to his lawyers.

His family home in Kent is being sold, with £400,000 equity to be split by divorcing couple

— Tristan Kirk (@kirkkorner) September 15, 2020

I'm sure he'll still be fine when he gets out of jail next year, probably have a cushy job waiting for him as soon as he's out of the gates

Ebbsfleet coronavirus testing centre in Kent closed to make way for lorry park for post-Brexit customs checkshttps://t.co/YqKcR0inGQ

— BBC Politics (@BBCPolitics) September 15, 2020

That is beautiful.

The Tories know their people.

this fucking country

Anticipating the story about clearing that lorry park to make way for the coffins

lol like they'd let mass death get in the way of commerce

Very clear the stats for cases are going to get suppressed which will enable the govt to avoid a 2/3 week lockdown for as long as possible.

To follow up, here's the letter we've sent to @BorisJohnson. We don't need a 'moonshot', just ability for residents to access a test locally, while national system was a mess & not everyone knew they could walk in, stopping it without warning is a scandal. https://t.co/V2MZfFo6Gk pic.twitter.com/bHlmND3HZg

— Mayor of Hackney (@mayorofhackney) September 14, 2020

Charlie Elphicke applied for legal aid and it was refused. He owes his estranged wife Natalie £100,000 which she loaned him for legal fees, he owes more than that to his lawyers.

His family home in Kent is being sold, with £400,000 equity to be split by divorcing couple

Poetic justice after he consistently voted to restrict and reduce legal aid. It would be funny if it wasn't destroying innocent lives.

gang of at least a dozen hanging in the little park by me just now, got a good mind to report them to Ed Mili

mrs g’s cousin has just reported on fb that her son’s primary school is closed until the 24th because every teacher has the rona

great work everyone

Saw a weird clip of Patel seeming to claim the rule of six would do nothing to prevent infections but that she'd narc people out anyway.

I mean that's vmic

"The daily number of coronavirus cases has risen above 3,000 again. Today’s count is 3,105, up from 2,621 yesterday. Today’s total is lower than was recorded at the end of last week, but it is still only the fourth time the daily total has been above 3,000 since the end of May. The recent trend - a sharp increase - is being maintained."

And given many can't get a test..

Was completely impossible for me to get a test when I checked last night, and I'm in suburban London

“My worry is that we’ve demonstrated that a better world is possible” says senior Tory pic.twitter.com/MKzbW3gi1Y

— Ollie (@O_lloyd) September 15, 2020

this fucking country

lol who could have seen this coming

Care home firm that sacked MP for raising PPE fears admits it did have shortagehttps://t.co/pvYOsQMOi0 pic.twitter.com/VzNfL5BUl6

— Mirror Politics (@MirrorPolitics) September 15, 2020

Grenfell files ‘lost forever’ after laptop wiped, inquiry hearshttps://t.co/RBKJnizXtg

— ITV London (@itvlondon) September 14, 2020

That sounds like it's nothing to do with the wiping of the laptop and everything to do with crucial files no longer being on the server where they were supposed to be.

Nice double punch of nothing matters there.

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are we waiting until bj gets covid a second time

i mean god willing but

a new thread? but literally nothing matters

Reference the six or nothing truly matters

Forensix Oppostion

^

Quite sobering to realise I was literally travelling home from work that day from our office and haven’t been back since.

ForenSix Opposition - Politics in the Soon To Be Former UK in Autumn 2020