Seizing back control: The ILX lol brexit is how we're all gonna die thread.

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New votes, new thread. Please feel free to change the title.

Ned Trifle X, Wednesday, 27 March 2019 14:35 (three weeks ago) Permalink

i want my old thread back

koogs, Wednesday, 27 March 2019 14:44 (three weeks ago) Permalink

yes I too vote to remain

PaulDananVEVO (||||||||), Wednesday, 27 March 2019 14:45 (three weeks ago) Permalink

Start a petition.

Ned Trifle X, Wednesday, 27 March 2019 14:48 (three weeks ago) Permalink

I have it on good authority that the new thread will reduce our hosting costs by massive amounts. Imagine what we could do with the savings

Simon H., Wednesday, 27 March 2019 14:49 (three weeks ago) Permalink

The options on the table are a hard thread, a soft thread, a Norway style thread or no thread at all.

Uptown VONC (Le Bateau Ivre), Wednesday, 27 March 2019 14:52 (three weeks ago) Permalink

how could a referendum both prevent May's deal AND no deal AND also not have revoke/remain as an option?

I posted in the last thread last week on this, put a collection of shit deals, no deals, and Norways on the ballot along with Remain/Revoke with the proviso that if Remain does not poll above 50% then the top Brexit option wins.

That hopefully prevents a challenge that a Brexit vote split favours remain.

If the 52% vote for anything but remain they will still get a brexit of sorts.

Non, je ned raggette rien (onimo), Wednesday, 27 March 2019 14:53 (three weeks ago) Permalink

Bye thread, we’ve had some good times & some where I think I was implied to be a tankie?

(Posting here just to confuse Ned)

― gyac, Wednesday, March 27, 2019 2:52 PM (four minutes ago)

It'll take more than that to confuse me. Now, you were saying what about the second Bee Gees album?

Ned Trifle X, Wednesday, 27 March 2019 15:01 (three weeks ago) Permalink

Then it gets niche.

Rees-Mogg (Eton) accuses Boles (Winchester) of making a Wykehamist point: "highly intelligent but fundamentally wrong."

Then he throws public school shade on Old Etonian Letwin of being more Winchester than Eton.

Can't see Letwin coming back from that.

— Theo Usherwood (@theousherwood) March 27, 2019

Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 27 March 2019 15:12 (three weeks ago) Permalink

Today in parliament:
- Rees-Mogg accuses Boles and Letwin of not respecting the result of the referendum.
- Boles points out they voted for the Brexit deal, and Rees-Mogg didn’t.
- Rees-Mogg accuses them of not acting like Etonians.

— Henry Mance (@henrymance) March 27, 2019

xp!

Uptown VONC (Le Bateau Ivre), Wednesday, 27 March 2019 15:17 (three weeks ago) Permalink

The vote on the business motion has gone worse for May than previously (which makes some sense)

Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 27 March 2019 15:24 (three weeks ago) Permalink

westminster has...*checks*...dominic grieve! booyah

also sir peter bottomley and helen whately, idk what their deal is but i'm assuming one-nation tory remain types

PPL+AI=NS (imago), Wednesday, 27 March 2019 15:31 (three weeks ago) Permalink

Here’s the commons vote link again:
https://commonsvotes.digiminster.com/ Not updated yet though

gyac, Wednesday, 27 March 2019 15:35 (three weeks ago) Permalink

i dont see anyone there from the tecs of donegal, achill or castlebar

i presume theyve just refused to take their seats right

fremme nette his simplicitte (darraghmac), Wednesday, 27 March 2019 15:36 (three weeks ago) Permalink

John Bercow, the Commons Speaker, is now talking about his ruling about “no repeat votes”, that prevented Theresa May from bringing back her meaningful vote before the EU summit.

He says there is talk of the government bringing back the vote on Thursday or Friday next week.

He says that, for this to be allowed, there would have to a substantial change to the motion.

And he says he has instructed the clerks to block any attempt by the government to ge round this ruling by tabling a “notwithstanding” motion - ie, a one-off rule change that would allow the debate to go ahead despite the usual Commons rule.

Bercow restates his ruling that he will only allow a new vote on the Brexit deal if it has changed significantly.
He says he will block any attempt by the government to use a procedural rule change to get round his decision.
This is new, and unexpected. It has probably reduced the chances of the meaningful vote being brought back this week (MV3), and it makes the chance of MV3 never happening a distinct possibility.

gyac, Wednesday, 27 March 2019 15:36 (three weeks ago) Permalink

this is fine

The Xylems of the Limes (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 27 March 2019 15:38 (three weeks ago) Permalink

this is good

fremme nette his simplicitte (darraghmac), Wednesday, 27 March 2019 15:41 (three weeks ago) Permalink

what the fuck is going on over there ?

(•̪●) (carne asada), Wednesday, 27 March 2019 15:42 (three weeks ago) Permalink

democracy iirc

recreational colonoscopies 4 u (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 27 March 2019 15:43 (three weeks ago) Permalink

never meet your tory heroes: bottomley and whately both voted against monday's motion and appear to be massive may lackeys

PPL+AI=NS (imago), Wednesday, 27 March 2019 15:44 (three weeks ago) Permalink

a "notwithstanding" motion

https://i.imgur.com/LzEAp8C.jpg

mark s, Wednesday, 27 March 2019 15:46 (three weeks ago) Permalink

I mean this is the Parliament where Labour MPs tabled “an humble address” which iirc petitions the sovereign directly (to force parliament to produce documents)

gyac, Wednesday, 27 March 2019 15:48 (three weeks ago) Permalink

“If you compared Britain to a sphinx, the sphinx would be an open book by comparison,” Jean-Claude Juncker, president of the European Commission, told the European Parliament on Wednesday at a meeting in Strasbourg, France. “Let’s see how that book speaks over the next week or so.”

I’m a dumb American and am totally baffled by the current situation but he needs to resign for this quote.

JoeStork, Wednesday, 27 March 2019 15:57 (three weeks ago) Permalink

xxp do they need to do the accent?

Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 27 March 2019 15:58 (three weeks ago) Permalink

good luck uk

John Bercow, the Speaker, is putting eight amendments to a vote.

Here they are. I have taken the summary of what each one says from the Press Association summary I posted earlier. The letters refer to the letters attached to each amendment in the order paper.

B - John Baron’s - No deal

Backed by Conservative MPs John Baron, David Amess, Martin Vickers and Stephen Metcalfe, the motion proposes leaving the European Union without a deal on April 12.

D - Nick Boles’s - common market 2.0

Tabled by Conservatives Nick Boles, Robert Halfon and Andrew Percy and Labour’s Stephen Kinnock, Lucy Powell and Diana Johnson. The motion proposes UK membership of the European free trade association and European Economic Area. It allows continued participation in the single market and a “comprehensive customs arrangement” with the EU after Brexit, which would remain in place until the agreement of a wider trade deal which guarantees frictionless movement of goods and an open border in Ireland.

H - George Eustice’s - Efta and EEA

A motion tabled by Conservative MP George Eustice – who quit as agriculture minister this month to fight for Brexit – proposes remaining within the EEA and rejoining Efta, but remaining outside a customs union with the EU. The motion was also signed by Conservative MPs including former minister Nicky Morgan and head of the Brexit Delivery Group Simon Hart.

J - Ken Clarke’s - Customs union

Requires a commitment to negotiate a “permanent and comprehensive UK-wide customs union with the EU” in any Brexit deal. Tabled by veteran Conservative Europhile Ken Clarke, backed by Labour’s Yvette Cooper, Helen Goodman and chair of the Commons Brexit committee Hilary Benn and Tory former ministers Sir Oliver Letwin and Sarah Newton.

K - Labour’s - Customs union and alignment with single market

Labour has tabled a motion proposing its plan for a close economic relationship with the EU. The plan includes a comprehensive customs union with a UK say on future trade deals; close alignment with the single market; matching new EU rights and protections; participation in EU agencies and funding programmes; and agreement on future security arrangements, including access to the European arrest warrant

L - Joanna Cherry’s - Revocation to avoid no deal

Under this plan, if the government has not passed its withdrawal agreement, it would have to stage a vote on a no-deal Brexit two sitting days before the scheduled date of departure. If MPs refuse to authorise no-deal, the prime minister would be required to halt Brexit by revoking article 50. The motion, tabled by the SNP’s Joanna Cherry, has been signed by 33 MPs including the Conservative former attorney general Dominic Grieve, the Liberal Democrat leader, Sir Vince Cable, Labour’s Ben Bradshaw and all 11 members of the Independent Group.

M - Dame Margaret Beckett’s - Confirmatory public vote

Drawn up by Labour MPs Peter Kyle and Phil Wilson and tabled by former foreign secretary Dame Margaret Beckett with the backing of scores of MPs across the House, this motion would require a public vote to confirm any Brexit deal passed by parliament before its ratification.

O - Marcus Fysh’s - Contingent preferential arrangements

A group of Conservative MPs, including Marcus Fysh, Steve Baker and Priti Patel, have signed a motion that calls for the government to seek to agree preferential trade arrangements with the EU, in case the UK is unable to implement a withdrawal agreement with the bloc.

recreational colonoscopies 4 u (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 27 March 2019 15:59 (three weeks ago) Permalink

xps to juncker - honestly thought that said sphincter, which would make more sense, Britain is in many ways like a sphincter.

mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 27 March 2019 16:03 (three weeks ago) Permalink

Aw, Fysh and Cherry got to the vote but not Quince.

gyac, Wednesday, 27 March 2019 16:03 (three weeks ago) Permalink

`When the seagulls follow the trawler, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea'

Juncker, on May, in an earlier press conference.

gyac, Wednesday, 27 March 2019 16:04 (three weeks ago) Permalink

Think Bercow might be going too far with that one tbh

stet, Wednesday, 27 March 2019 16:05 (three weeks ago) Permalink

I’m a dumb American and am totally baffled by the current situation but he needs to resign for this quote.

― JoeStork, Wednesday, 27 March 2019 15:57 (six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

why on earth would he have to resign based on that quote

fremme nette his simplicitte (darraghmac), Wednesday, 27 March 2019 16:05 (three weeks ago) Permalink

look i'm not saying it would be great if jean-claude juncker performed a flying karate kick on theresa may

however

recreational colonoscopies 4 u (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 27 March 2019 16:05 (three weeks ago) Permalink

jean claude van juncker

fremme nette his simplicitte (darraghmac), Wednesday, 27 March 2019 16:06 (three weeks ago) Permalink

33 Tories voted against the government in that motion a while ago:
https://commonsvotes.digiminster.com/Divisions/Details/654?byMember=false

The usuals but Stevenson, Streeter and Tredinnick are new I think?

gyac, Wednesday, 27 March 2019 16:07 (three weeks ago) Permalink

xxp just an exaggerated reaction to a tortured metaphor that I spent too long trying to parse

JoeStork, Wednesday, 27 March 2019 16:15 (three weeks ago) Permalink

ive considered it and im sorry now u have to resign im sorry

fremme nette his simplicitte (darraghmac), Wednesday, 27 March 2019 16:16 (three weeks ago) Permalink

guys, John Baron is just Trump, how'd you seat him as an MP

moose; squirrel (silby), Wednesday, 27 March 2019 16:19 (three weeks ago) Permalink

at the very least, be rusticated to JoeHeron xp

a man I very much respect and who really helped me and many other children is/was a faithful John Baron voter, says he's a great local MP. quite a low bar but he doesn't seem too bad for a Brexiter

PPL+AI=NS (imago), Wednesday, 27 March 2019 16:22 (three weeks ago) Permalink

slash Tory

PPL+AI=NS (imago), Wednesday, 27 March 2019 16:24 (three weeks ago) Permalink

I’m willing to resign from the brexit thread but I’m going to need some concessions.

JoeStork, Wednesday, 27 March 2019 16:27 (three weeks ago) Permalink

Lilico jfc

Absolutely I would be, if I were solving some equations & there were intermediate solutions & then a final solution, or similarly if doing a chemistry experiment. Indeed, I come across the term "final solution" used innocently in all kinds of contexts. https://t.co/WQ9VhdqFRm

— Andrew Lilico (@andrew_lilico) March 27, 2019

gyac, Wednesday, 27 March 2019 16:28 (three weeks ago) Permalink

hmmm

recreational colonoscopies 4 u (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 27 March 2019 16:31 (three weeks ago) Permalink

JoeStork is otm, “let’s see how that book speaks”, “that book” being the open book that the Sphinx would be by comparison to Britain presumably? Juncker retire binch iirc

A funny tinge happened on the way to the forum (wins), Wednesday, 27 March 2019 16:41 (three weeks ago) Permalink

xp we were loling at Lolico & co over here British Right-Wing Pundits

Neil S, Wednesday, 27 March 2019 16:41 (three weeks ago) Permalink

I’m a dumb American, but this shit is impenetrable.

Mazzy Tsar (PBKR), Wednesday, 27 March 2019 16:48 (three weeks ago) Permalink

Am I to be hauled over the coals just because I happened to innocently describe some art that was degenerate. I have never read a book and I am drinking paint. Checkmate sjws

A funny tinge happened on the way to the forum (wins), Wednesday, 27 March 2019 16:48 (three weeks ago) Permalink

meanwhile:

The French must drink less wine, say health officials https://t.co/bp581wI0N6

— The Guardian (@guardian) March 27, 2019

mark s, Wednesday, 27 March 2019 16:51 (three weeks ago) Permalink

More Americans itt please.

Sorry to post Lilico in the wrong thread, too many days of posting in these threads has melted my brain.

May @ the 1922 at 5, DUP statement at 6, indicative vote shitshow at 7.

gyac, Wednesday, 27 March 2019 16:52 (three weeks ago) Permalink

More Americans itt please.

Sorry to post Lilico in the wrong thread, too many days of posting in these threads has melted my brain.

May @ the 1922 at 5, DUP statement at 6, indicative vote shitshow at 7.

gyac, Wednesday, 27 March 2019 16:52 (three weeks ago) Permalink

Agreeing with the political purposes and with the exploitation, that is.

Andrew Farrell, Saturday, 20 April 2019 08:53 (two days ago) Permalink

In other news, https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/baby-citizenship-uk-status-child-immigration-home-office-parents-america-a8878421.html

London-born baby with British-resident parents denied UK status

Andrew Farrell, Saturday, 20 April 2019 08:56 (two days ago) Permalink

A tale of Real England. The only unusual thing about it is that both parents are white.

pomenitul, Saturday, 20 April 2019 09:02 (two days ago) Permalink

xps One Of Those Things genuinely made me question just why I was wasting my time at Labour meetings where 95% of the time would be spent discussing [see Kevin's list above plus nuclear weapons] and 5% on, oh, I don't know, the NHS. Whereas when you went out canvassing people they very rarely mentioned El Salvador (but almost always mentioned the bins, some struggles are eternal).

Ned Trifle X, Saturday, 20 April 2019 09:06 (two days ago) Permalink

A UK consular officer advised the baby to gurgle with an English accent to no avail.

sorry I know it is serious and horrible, but when they are doing this to what I presume are relatively wealthy white people, you feel like there might be a happy resolution for the family later. Unlike those poor people left to rot stateless and homeless in the Caribbean.

calzino, Saturday, 20 April 2019 09:08 (two days ago) Permalink

McKee’s killing front page of the Morning Star, for what it’s worth.

Leaghaidh am brón an t-anam bochd (dowd), Saturday, 20 April 2019 09:15 (two days ago) Permalink

Yeah definitely, it's not surprising that one couple like that will get the same coverage that black families usually only get in bulk. Can't fault them for making the phonecalls to get the coverage though, and fair play to him / the journalist that the first quote is pretty much "we are getting the very best end of this".

Andrew Farrell, Saturday, 20 April 2019 09:15 (two days ago) Permalink

(xp to calzino)

Andrew Farrell, Saturday, 20 April 2019 09:16 (two days ago) Permalink

(xp to myself because I've just remembered it) As an aside, and ironically, given Rowlands background, when I lived in Brum in the early 80s folks DID occasionally discuss Ireland. I worked as a carer for a guy from Belfast whose best mate used to wind his friends up about losing the use of his legs in a punishment shooting (he actually fell of a roof nicking lead). Surest way to start an argument in a pub in Aston was to start talking about NI (Birmingham pub bombings still very much an issue even today much more so in the late 70s/early 80s) but at least it was talked about.

Ned Trifle X, Saturday, 20 April 2019 09:21 (two days ago) Permalink

I can remember seeing Bobby Sands H-Block graffiti in Dublin as a kid and the Sinn Fein office in Kerry with Thatcher (with a noose around her neck I think) wanted dead or alive posters. And the frequent background hum of family dissing the fucking Brits and singing rebel songs when pissed up. I probably had much more than average (as a UK citizen) early exposure to this legacy of Brit imperialism in Ireland. But I still don't feel I'm Irish enough to have strong opinions on the North and only passively follow what is going on. It isn't that I don't give a shit and am massively pro United ROI obv. Probably cos I don't have much contact with Irish ppl anymore and the elderly ones in my UK family are dropping like flies - I don't really have any irl dialogue with people about the north.

calzino, Saturday, 20 April 2019 09:57 (two days ago) Permalink

sorry muddled shitpost. But I only really have the energy to despise one Tory at a time in my online interactions is probably the non tldr version.

calzino, Saturday, 20 April 2019 10:21 (two days ago) Permalink

Hatred for Tories is not strained, it drops as the gentle rain from heaven on the place beneath.

Leaghaidh am brón an t-anam bochd (dowd), Saturday, 20 April 2019 11:32 (two days ago) Permalink

Diane Abbott as M&S canned cocktails: a thread pic.twitter.com/BYsJJnxIxP

— Louis Staples (@LouisStaples) April 20, 2019

... and the crowd said DESELECT THEM (||||||||), Saturday, 20 April 2019 12:45 (two days ago) Permalink

Everyone backing Abbott on this apparently but I like the no drinking rule. Not everyone drinking on the bus is sipping an M&S cocktail, some are swaying about wetting themselves and spilling crappy cider over passengers WHO ARE JUST TRYING TO GET BACK TO THEIR FRIENDS HOUSE WITHOUT GETTING PISS ON THEM. Not that this about me obviously.

Ned Trifle X, Saturday, 20 April 2019 13:20 (two days ago) Permalink

more power to the pissheads I say!

calzino, Saturday, 20 April 2019 13:22 (two days ago) Permalink

It was one of Boris's ideas, so fuck it.

Do you like 70s hard rock with a guitar hero? (Tom D.), Saturday, 20 April 2019 13:29 (two days ago) Permalink

I mean is it all possible that if somebody is going to get so drunk they piss themselves on public transport, this rule might not have registered that much with them anyway

Dadjokke (Sgt. Biscuits), Saturday, 20 April 2019 13:43 (two days ago) Permalink

yet another emblematic symbol of their political incompetence, a man with a bucket on his head could stop the pro-remain parties from getting a seat in the southeast for the euro elections

It is trickier for the other pro-EU UK-wide parties to worry about how this stunt may split the vote (in their second-best English region) when they are splitting the vote 3-ways anyway. pic.twitter.com/NrufBoWxFK

— Sunder Katwala (@sundersays) April 20, 2019

... and the crowd said DESELECT THEM (||||||||), Saturday, 20 April 2019 13:46 (two days ago) Permalink

wrong tweet

The Buckethead stunt may make no difference at all. If he can get 50,000 votes (about 2%) he could help deny one of the pro-EU parties a seat. If unlucky with the maths, could even help the Brexit party, Ukip or Conservatives to nab a seat at the margin.

— Sunder Katwala (@sundersays) April 20, 2019

... and the crowd said DESELECT THEM (||||||||), Saturday, 20 April 2019 13:46 (two days ago) Permalink

Is there a post-2008 golden era of TFL where there are never any drunk cunts annoying people on the tube, an era which Diane Abbott has now potentially destroyed in setting this example?

The answer is clear: she must be made to take that same journey again, so this time justice can be done and she can have been asked to leave the train

Dadjokke (Sgt. Biscuits), Saturday, 20 April 2019 13:49 (two days ago) Permalink

live webcast of Tommy Robinson making a citizen's arrest to follow.

calzino, Saturday, 20 April 2019 14:08 (two days ago) Permalink

There's a man who knows all about responsible drinking.

Do you like 70s hard rock with a guitar hero? (Tom D.), Saturday, 20 April 2019 14:10 (two days ago) Permalink

London-born baby with British-resident parents denied UK status

― Andrew Farrell, Saturday, April 20, 2019 1:56 AM (six hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

America sucks but birthright citizenship is good

don't mock my smock or i'll clean your clock (silby), Saturday, 20 April 2019 15:21 (two days ago) Permalink

I feel for that couple - I've been there - but the baby has a US passport. What sort of stamp do they expect it/he/she to get in it when they come back to the UK? A nod and a wave through? If you live somewhere you are supposed to have a document of some sort that shows you have the right to live there ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Lil' Brexit (Tracer Hand), Saturday, 20 April 2019 20:34 (two days ago) Permalink

I'm in favour of genuinely open borders pretty much everywhere and think documentation is an abomination fyi

Lil' Brexit (Tracer Hand), Sunday, 21 April 2019 00:13 (yesterday) Permalink

Agreed

American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Sunday, 21 April 2019 00:36 (yesterday) Permalink

Yes, the bureaucracy around immigration has been made purposely complicated and expensive to dissuade people from viewing it as anything other than a nightmare but, at the same time, the genre of ‘middle-class white person hasn’t filled in the form correctly’ reporting is often extremely aggravating.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/ofsted-brexit-daniel-muijs-settled-status-eu-immigration-a8861401.html

ShariVari, Sunday, 21 April 2019 07:04 (yesterday) Permalink

Stefan Zweig on open borders before 1914 (from his memoirs, The World of Yesterday, 436): pic.twitter.com/qdbiPbyfaU

— Daniel Steinmetz-Jen (@daniel_dsj2110) April 20, 2019

stet, Sunday, 21 April 2019 11:33 (yesterday) Permalink

I think he was mostly observing life through a monocle tbh. like as if some peasant from the subcontinent would decide on whim to move to Canada -tally ho it's the days of freedom!

calzino, Sunday, 21 April 2019 11:44 (yesterday) Permalink

Peasants kinda did "decide" to move despite the dangers and horribleness of the journey tho, right?

After Cease to Brexist (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 21 April 2019 11:49 (yesterday) Permalink

Maybe not from the more ruthlessly exploited ends of the Empire i guess

After Cease to Brexist (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 21 April 2019 11:50 (yesterday) Permalink

true, but they wouldn't have complained about filling in forms if it meant they wouldn't travel like cattle!

calzino, Sunday, 21 April 2019 11:54 (yesterday) Permalink

If there were a huge influx of Bangladeshi refugees every time there was a famine pre-1914, I think my man Zweig would have been stressing the need for "sensible borders" i.e. ones that only rich white folks can cross. I mean loads of my ancestors managed to flee a famine, but like you say at the more ruthlessly exploited parts of the empire no such luck.

calzino, Sunday, 21 April 2019 12:07 (yesterday) Permalink

I conclude that the early 20th C branch of FBPE might have been right about those ghastly Prussians but were ever so slightly smug and myopic!

calzino, Sunday, 21 April 2019 12:27 (yesterday) Permalink

zweig's perspective is very likely over-rosy -- i'm sure there were class gradients and race hierarchies at work!* -- but largescale migrations, forced, semi-forced and semi-voluntary, were common in the 19th century, within empires (inc.zweig's birth-empire the austro-hungarian empire) and between them. the brits routinely moved chunks of peoples around to suit their needs (hence the so-called "ugandan asians"). many chinese fled murderous civil upheavals (not to mention the various opium wars) to go settle in america -- tolerated bcz labour was needed to build west coastal cities and railroads. the big panic crackdowns in e.g. the US came largely in the wake of the waves of refugees that quit europe during and after WW1.

*money is one: an african labourer or indian peasant would simply never have earned enough even for passage on a package ship to america, say. and of course the border-checks met the package ships rather than the swish ocean liners. class is in fact the name for the gradient at work here, from forced at one end to freely chosen at the other. plus the nazi system of internal racial hierarchy and patrol (which zweig deplores) was very much modeled on the pioneering US version (= jim crow).

mark s, Sunday, 21 April 2019 12:52 (yesterday) Permalink

(the fact that the globe was divided into a small number of empires rather than a larger number of nations presumably surely had implication for relative ease of travel, for many)

mark s, Sunday, 21 April 2019 12:54 (yesterday) Permalink

Maybe the Spanish flu epidemic increased border controls in parts of the world more than the war - which helped to spread it?- just assuming here not read this.

"Before 1914 the earth belonged to the entire human race"

"Before 2016 perfidious Albion was actually known as fair and graceful Avalon... rah rah.. etc

calzino, Sunday, 21 April 2019 13:10 (yesterday) Permalink

ah yes life was idyllic in 1914

deemsthelarker (darraghmac), Sunday, 21 April 2019 13:10 (yesterday) Permalink

Yes I think you could get super-Foucauldian about this, and note that these bureaucratic exclusions arose alongside intelligence tests for the army and various inoculation projects: populations defined by medical and scientific (and pseudo-scientific) mapping and decision-making. But the war was a primary cause – as a vector for disease, as a demand for more0or-less instant armies, as a generator of politics with little to use.

mark s, Sunday, 21 April 2019 14:25 (yesterday) Permalink

i mean little to lose (i am reading abt lemmy)

mark s, Sunday, 21 April 2019 14:46 (yesterday) Permalink

I was just reading about how Roy Hodgson is a fan of Stefan Zweig, in fact he's a very well read man who should be invited to the next ILB FAP.

Do you like 70s hard rock with a guitar hero? (Tom D.), Sunday, 21 April 2019 15:41 (yesterday) Permalink

If there were a huge influx of Bangladeshi refugees every time there was a famine pre-1914, I think my man Zweig would have been stressing the need for "sensible borders" i.e. ones that only rich white folks can cross.

I won't deny that Zweig's vision was privileged and naive but I don't think there's really anything in his work to support this conclusion, tbf.

Daniel_Rf, Sunday, 21 April 2019 15:44 (yesterday) Permalink

post-ww1 border controls passports primary functiom had shifted from a useful way of avoiding harassment while travelling to being a sweet bit of state control. re the empire/nation distinction afaik everyone in the british empire had the same passport til post ww2

no one was using passports for rail travel in zweig's era, idk abt sea voyages tho

ogmor, Sunday, 21 April 2019 15:46 (yesterday) Permalink

One of the postwar immigration acts had stripped Falkland islanders of their uk citizenship. Which became an embarrassment for thatcher.

calzino, Sunday, 21 April 2019 15:59 (yesterday) Permalink

Can't remember which one and am on the phone.

calzino, Sunday, 21 April 2019 16:02 (yesterday) Permalink

It was the 1981 British Nationality Act lol. Obviously such hypocrisy meant that the Thatcher government was owned by its own logic, was unable to extract any political capital from the falklands war and was soundly defeated at the subsequent general election

alt right? all trite more like (Bananaman Begins), Sunday, 21 April 2019 16:31 (yesterday) Permalink

some hasty amendments were made to the act in '83 to keep the highly vigilant Murdoch press at bay as they were ready to hold the Thatcher gov to account at the first sign of incompetence.

calzino, Sunday, 21 April 2019 16:48 (yesterday) Permalink

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/apr/21/new-ira-staged-derry-riot-to-impress-tv-presenter-reggie-yates

. “There is a strong belief that they were being stoked by dissidents for the benefit of the film crew,” the paper quoted one community worker as saying.

Sunday Times so take with a pinch of salt.

The cosplay ‘RA arrested for the shooting were 18 and 19.

ShariVari, Sunday, 21 April 2019 18:37 (yesterday) Permalink

Both have just been released without charge.

ShariVari, Sunday, 21 April 2019 19:37 (yesterday) Permalink


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