US Politics December 2018: ~very legal and very cool~

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apparently someone died?

gbx, Saturday, 1 December 2018 19:18 (two months ago) Permalink

not the right one.

A is for (Aimless), Saturday, 1 December 2018 19:19 (two months ago) Permalink

not the right quantity

21st savagery fox (m bison), Saturday, 1 December 2018 19:24 (two months ago) Permalink

all the new memes are tedious and unfunny we need someone bad to die

— Brandy Jensen (@BrandyLJensen) November 27, 2018

resident hack (Simon H.), Saturday, 1 December 2018 19:25 (two months ago) Permalink

very legal

and very cool

Karl Malone, Saturday, 1 December 2018 19:27 (two months ago) Permalink

This got a hair lost last night in the wake of Bush's passing, but turns out Cohen wasn't done yet:

BREAKING / NBC NEWS: Michael Cohen's attorneys have told a judge tonight that their client is cooperating in an ongoing federal investigation in New York and he has met with the New York AG's office about their suit against the Trump Foundation and the President.

— Tom Winter (@Tom_Winter) December 1, 2018

FRIDAY NIGHT NEWS DUMP:

Michael Cohen's legal team just released his 33-page sentencing submission seeking a time served sentence for "voluntarily" cooperating with the Mueller probe. There are 37 exhibits.

Here's a snippet from the memo. pic.twitter.com/d4TVEUz6YV

— Adam Klasfeld (@KlasfeldReports) December 1, 2018

More on what that all means:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/cohen-trump-knew-i-called-kremlin-for-help-with-trump-tower-moscow

Ned Raggett, Saturday, 1 December 2018 19:32 (two months ago) Permalink

Also one of several pieces on the fairly obvious re Nunes' culpability and resultant unintended consequences. Though it slightly underscores that this may be a long month:

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/11/michael-cohen-lying-to-congress-plea-deal-devin-nunes.html

Ned Raggett, Saturday, 1 December 2018 19:33 (two months ago) Permalink

good thread title

very legal and very cool (k3vin k.), Saturday, 1 December 2018 19:34 (two months ago) Permalink

The thread title was a no brainer but the tildes add a little flair, kudos

The Poppy Bush AutoZone (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, 1 December 2018 20:02 (two months ago) Permalink

you know i do what i can

gbx, Saturday, 1 December 2018 20:03 (two months ago) Permalink

The North Carolina stuff is *nuts*:

It seems a Republican campaign went to the houses of older Democrats, claimed to be officials, took their absentee ballots and got rid of them. The Republican “won” by 900 votes. It’s 2018. Every major newspaper should be on that story. #NC9

— Neera Tanden (@neeratanden) December 1, 2018

Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 1 December 2018 23:42 (two months ago) Permalink

xp i’m a huge tilde-as-em dash fan, and through my ilx fandom, i incorporated (mis-incorporated?) it into my personal board correspondence style. first i’ve been aware of the fingerprints but i’m comforted by the idea that i swiped from the best.

but i'ma chud. i'ma weirdo. what the hell am i doing here? (Hunt3r), Sunday, 2 December 2018 04:37 (two months ago) Permalink

i guess its less of a dash than an intensifier in many of my applications. still tho.

but i'ma chud. i'ma weirdo. what the hell am i doing here? (Hunt3r), Sunday, 2 December 2018 04:39 (two months ago) Permalink

Per these observations, Trump resolved nothing with China aside from no immediate tariff escalation:

Again, unless there's more here than meets the eye, this is hardly the predicted "cave" by Xi begging for mercy for US trade pressure. Not even close. Buying farm goods for tariff time-out is basically status-quo-ante, which is what China wants.

— Patrick Chovanec (@prchovanec) December 2, 2018

Cannot be emphasized enough: this is not a deal and it is not a resolution. This is an agreement to delay further escalation. Neither side really gave anything except some cotton candy sweeteners. Nothing fundamental. Maybe be happy escalation had been delayed

— Interpol CEO Balding (@BaldingsWorld) December 2, 2018

And now there's this

BREAKING: Trump says he'll be 'formally terminating NAFTA,' says Congress will have choice between replacement or nothing

— The Associated Press (@AP) December 2, 2018

Ned Raggett, Sunday, 2 December 2018 05:15 (two months ago) Permalink

his trademark negotiation style: take a hostage

Karl Malone, Sunday, 2 December 2018 05:53 (two months ago) Permalink

"Russia is building up its land forces and weapons along the border, Ukraine’s president said Saturday"

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

https://apnews.com/201537791dc8404496eb4d9f5bd4d387

reggie (qualmsley), Sunday, 2 December 2018 16:59 (two months ago) Permalink

very legal & very cool

crispy fun in a bun (bizarro gazzara), Sunday, 2 December 2018 17:22 (two months ago) Permalink

Got to admit, of all the brazen dickheadedness Russia has been up to, I really don't understand what the endgame in Ukraine is.

Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 2 December 2018 17:23 (two months ago) Permalink

ok, i understand this is not likely, but can we all agree that there is a NON-ZERO probability, maybe even as high as 0.001%, that one endgame for all of this is Trump being installed as the new President of Ukraine, with the pardoned Manafort as his Chief of Staff

Karl Malone, Sunday, 2 December 2018 17:33 (two months ago) Permalink

he would probably love that.

Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 2 December 2018 17:34 (two months ago) Permalink

xpost That article is 4 years old. Do its arguments still stand?

Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 2 December 2018 17:35 (two months ago) Permalink

Speaking at a Ukrainian military event, President Petro Poroshenko said Russia has deployed “more than 80,000 troops, 1,400 artillery and multiple rocket launch systems, 900 tanks, 2,300 armored combat vehicles, 500 aircraft and 300 helicopters” along their common border.

These numbers, which have not been verified, would account for the vast majority of men and hardware assigned to Russia’s Western Military District.

Karl Malone, Sunday, 2 December 2018 17:41 (two months ago) Permalink

Maybe Russia is worried Ukraine might invade?

Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 2 December 2018 17:51 (two months ago) Permalink

I mean invading Russia in the winter what could go wrong?

The Poppy Bush AutoZone (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 2 December 2018 17:58 (two months ago) Permalink

Not if Ukraine brings the heat!

Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 2 December 2018 17:59 (two months ago) Permalink

lock yulia tymoshenko up!

reggie (qualmsley), Sunday, 2 December 2018 18:01 (two months ago) Permalink

xpost That article is 4 years old. Do its arguments still stand?

― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, December 2, 2018 11:35 AM (twenty minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

short version: yes
long version: yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

21st savagery fox (m bison), Sunday, 2 December 2018 18:03 (two months ago) Permalink

ok, so let's see where all the dumbass statements and stances vs actual policies and actions lead us, from the US side of things

- trump consistently attacks NATO. not just the amount of money NATO members spend on it, but also the idea of NATO itself. he sees it as a transactional thing, and doesn't think the US is getting enough out of its investment
- he also likes to refer to NATO members as "so-called allies", and to argue that they don't care about us, and that they rip us off, etc
- beyond all the bluster and the stupidity of his tweets, the US has actually increased funding and support for NATO
- he blames the last russian annexation of Crimea on Obama. not putin for doing it, but obama for "letting it happen"
- putin seems to own him

???

Karl Malone, Sunday, 2 December 2018 18:04 (two months ago) Permalink

It sounds like our president is an idiot.

Newsted joins this band and quickly he’s subdued (Leee), Sunday, 2 December 2018 18:08 (two months ago) Permalink

i think it's this mess of contradictions that leads me to the 0.003% scenario where putin fully invades ukraine, trump issues some weirdass tweet/ "press statement" saying that the US refuses to help NATO, the entire world yells at trump, confusion ensues, and then there's iconic CNN footage of trump trying taking off on a private plane toward russia and everyone's just like "fuck it, let him leave"

Karl Malone, Sunday, 2 December 2018 18:16 (two months ago) Permalink

Trump's constant flak aimed at NATO is probably just playing to his know-nothing base, the same who lapped up the birther nonsense. Such people probably think of NATO countries as filled with uppity wine-drinking snobs who laugh at rural America and should be taken down several pegs, because we are the greatest nation on earth and they are a bunch of has-beens who be speaking Russian if we hadn't saved them.

A is for (Aimless), Sunday, 2 December 2018 18:20 (two months ago) Permalink

It sounds like our president is an idiot.

― Newsted joins this band and quickly he’s subdued (Leee), Sunday, December 2, 2018 12:08 PM (seventeen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah otm have to admit I'm starting to have some concerns about Trump

The Poppy Bush AutoZone (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 2 December 2018 18:26 (two months ago) Permalink

of course it plays well the base, all you have to do is go "europeans are like THIS!" and do the 'hold your pinky up while you drink tea' gesture. but trump has been consistently attacking "allies" for decades now, since the mid-80s at least. whoever is a putative ally is also a competitor in his mind, because he sees international trade as a contest, and you trade with your allies

Karl Malone, Sunday, 2 December 2018 18:27 (two months ago) Permalink

it's like

https://i.imgur.com/NtWm2lX.jpg
LET'S RUN THE GOVERNMENT LIKE A BUSINESS!

only if you didn't know how businesses are run

Karl Malone, Sunday, 2 December 2018 18:28 (two months ago) Permalink

Having just returned from a trip to Oslo, I gotta say the absolute worst thing about traveling is having to come back to America when you're done.

grawlix (unperson), Sunday, 2 December 2018 21:41 (two months ago) Permalink

yeah i just finished watching all of the swedish 'girl w/ dragon tattoo' and i feel the same way

j., Monday, 3 December 2018 00:11 (two months ago) Permalink

we need to make america great again guys

reggie (qualmsley), Monday, 3 December 2018 01:01 (two months ago) Permalink

are there any tax returns you'd suggest looking at in order to make that happen

j., Monday, 3 December 2018 01:12 (two months ago) Permalink

Aimless otm; he wouldn't give a shit about NATO one way or the other if it weren't a MAGAnaut rally applause line.

Brian Oenophile (Ye Mad Puffin), Monday, 3 December 2018 01:25 (two months ago) Permalink

Actually not sure. The Black Helicopter crowd is obviously part of his base. But obviously there's reason to believe something else is up too.

fajita seas, Monday, 3 December 2018 01:29 (two months ago) Permalink

idk -- he does seem to resent money being spent on things, like nato, that don't immediately enrich him personally, and he clearly has no broader grasp of geopolitics or long-term strategy in general. i think he'd be against nato even if it weren't an applause line

mookieproof, Monday, 3 December 2018 01:35 (two months ago) Permalink

any money not spent by the *job creators* (peace be unto them) is an affront to jesus

reggie (qualmsley), Monday, 3 December 2018 01:38 (two months ago) Permalink

Got to admit, of all the brazen dickheadedness Russia has been up to, I really don't understand what the endgame in Ukraine is.

Not all of those reasons still hold up but the idea that Russia wants to maintain a sphere of influence and not be surrounded to the West by NATO does, as does the broader idea that they have an obligation to protect Russians and Russian-speakers within Ukraine. Another major factor is that it is a relatively popular distraction from domestic issues (primarily the increase in pension age, which has seen Putin’s approval rating dip significantly).

It’s worth noting that Poroshenko is playing the same game, though. There isn’t any evidence Russia is particularly up to anything new - over and above the incident in the Kerch Straight - and Poroshenko’s implementation of martial law, the ban on Russian nationals entering Ukraine, hyping up the threat of ground invasion, etc, has much more to do with the fact that an election campaign kicks off this month and he is currently polling 8%. The original martial law proposal would have run for twice as long and potentially delayed the election - but it was rejected by members of his own coalition.

ShariVari, Monday, 3 December 2018 01:44 (two months ago) Permalink

8% is pretty rough

I have measured out my life in coffee shop loyalty cards (silby), Monday, 3 December 2018 02:13 (two months ago) Permalink

Remembering the murder of 4 US churchwomen in El Salvador, 12/2 1980. And what US officials said: UN Amb. Jean Kirkpatrick: “The nuns were not just nuns, [they] were also political activists on behalf of the Frente. We ought to be more clear-cut about this than we usually are.” pic.twitter.com/CCEWFmloKV

— Robert Ellsberg (@RobertEllsberg) December 2, 2018

Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Monday, 3 December 2018 07:21 (two months ago) Permalink

“I think that there are a lot of reasons people became Trump voters,” said Springsteen to the Sunday Times Magazine of London. “You had severe blows to working people in the 1970s and 1980s as all the steel mills shut down. Then you had an explosion of information technology. These are life-changing, upsetting occurrences.”

So far, a second term for Trump looks likely to Springsteen. “I don’t see anyone out there at the moment,” said Springsteen of the 2020 election. “The man who can beat Trump, or the woman who can beat Trump. You need someone who can speak some of the same language (as Trump) and the Democrats don’t have an obvious, effective presidential candidate.”

https://www.app.com/story/entertainment/music/2018/12/03/bruce-springsteen-donald-trump-voters-feel-your-pain/2189165002/

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Monday, 3 December 2018 15:05 (two months ago) Permalink

he's running

Freda VanFleet (symsymsym), Monday, 3 December 2018 15:18 (two months ago) Permalink

prefer him to Harris or Booker

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Monday, 3 December 2018 15:19 (two months ago) Permalink

you can't let these people define what an acceptable persona is for a presidential candidate. it's enough.

💫 (Trϵϵship), Monday, 31 December 2018 20:19 (one month ago) Permalink

Kerry is a completely different kind of figure than Gore, who had been around for like 10 years and for that entire time had been one of the leading devils in the conservative fever dream.

sovereignty flight, Monday, 31 December 2018 20:27 (one month ago) Permalink

Next year will be the 45th anniversary of US women being allowed credit cards and mortgages on their own. Let's not go asking for too much too fast, ya'll.

Yerac, Monday, 31 December 2018 20:28 (one month ago) Permalink

Agreed but I’m sympathetic to that nervousness since no one really knows how much of it is a liability plus (though anecdotal) I’ve heard from a couple of women who just would rather not have to deal w it in that discourse of a presidential race again.

Nerdstrom Poindexter, Monday, 31 December 2018 20:29 (one month ago) Permalink

Xpost Treesh’s post

Nerdstrom Poindexter, Monday, 31 December 2018 20:29 (one month ago) Permalink

thing is, warren has a claim to being the most qualified candidate in the race plus she is a popular senator in her state

💫 (Trϵϵship), Monday, 31 December 2018 20:40 (one month ago) Permalink

being 'qualified' means nothing now, if it ever did

mookieproof, Monday, 31 December 2018 20:42 (one month ago) Permalink

Being a truly post Obama figure helps too compared to the optics of running the person he beat.

Nerdstrom Poindexter, Monday, 31 December 2018 20:42 (one month ago) Permalink

i don't see her as being at all similar to hillary or john kerry

💫 (Trϵϵship), Monday, 31 December 2018 20:44 (one month ago) Permalink

hate to be that guy but there's a whole thread for this

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Monday, 31 December 2018 20:45 (one month ago) Permalink

There was some skepticism over “qualified” having objective value in 2016 that has since been field tested

Nerdstrom Poindexter, Monday, 31 December 2018 20:47 (one month ago) Permalink

rogermexico should be banned from this thread


go on...

Larry Elleison (rogermexico.), Monday, 31 December 2018 21:04 (one month ago) Permalink

if liberals back away from a candidate like warren because they are afraid of how easily she could be demonized by sexists, then they are making a decision based on cowardice.

Absolutely! Cowardice is a large part of the contemporary Dem brand!

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Monday, 31 December 2018 21:18 (one month ago) Permalink

I would LOVE to be proven wrong about that though! I would pour champagne!

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Monday, 31 December 2018 21:19 (one month ago) Permalink

cowardice is the american brand.

Yerac, Monday, 31 December 2018 21:33 (one month ago) Permalink

it shouldn't be though. she should run and do it her way without listening to the focus-group types.

💫 (Trϵϵship), Monday, 31 December 2018 21:40 (one month ago) Permalink

An interesting Twitter thread (which will apparently be deleted tomorrow, so read now):

1. I would just add one thing to this very good thread. (Check out Greg's book!) The question regularly comes up: how conscious is this on Trump's part? To what extent is it a strategy, something he is choosing? Is he trying to deceive us or has he just deceived himself? https://t.co/oVAznNr55o

— David Roberts (@drvox) December 30, 2018

grawlix (unperson), Monday, 31 December 2018 21:46 (one month ago) Permalink

Yes, thread is good. We the people need to own the fact that we let this happen.

Loggins and Rogers and G are...K3NNY (Old Lunch), Monday, 31 December 2018 22:08 (one month ago) Permalink

if there’s one thing america is good at, it’s honest self-reflection about national shortcomings and taking rational action to address those issues

an erotic picnic with Ming (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 31 December 2018 22:21 (one month ago) Permalink

There should be a national conversation about it. Preferably taking place entirely on social media.

Karl Malone, Monday, 31 December 2018 22:24 (one month ago) Permalink

We the people need to own the fact that we let this happen.

to repeat myself: having never watched presidential debates before, and watching every 2016 one live, I felt the bottom drop out of reality when there were "moderators" who just allowed him to spew nonsense and bullshit unchecked, not to mention float about the stage like a predatory, narcissistic balloon when the camera wasn't on him.

Jeremy Paxman should moderate all 2020 debates, with Daniel Dale in his earpiece.

sans lep (sic), Monday, 31 December 2018 22:30 (one month ago) Permalink

Scare quotes very appropriately employed.

Loggins and Rogers and G are...K3NNY (Old Lunch), Monday, 31 December 2018 22:35 (one month ago) Permalink

whoever the democratic candidate is should refuse to debate him unless some new, real-time fact-checking procedure is installed. not because i think it will make a difference to trump supporters, just because there is no real reason to repeat the farce of the 2016 debates.

💫 (Trϵϵship), Monday, 31 December 2018 22:38 (one month ago) Permalink

he isn't actually debating

💫 (Trϵϵship), Monday, 31 December 2018 22:38 (one month ago) Permalink

I actually agree. There is nothing to be gained in pretending to debate him. Refusing to acknowledge him at all is probably the best strategy a dem candidate could take.

Loggins and Rogers and G are...K3NNY (Old Lunch), Monday, 31 December 2018 22:41 (one month ago) Permalink

debates are largely pointless anyway and they're always riddled with inaccuracies and spin, but there was something really degrading about that st. louis experience, not just to hillary but to the nation

💫 (Trϵϵship), Monday, 31 December 2018 22:49 (one month ago) Permalink

sometimes i think presidential debates were always a bad idea

think where our country might be today if reagan hadn't impressed a lot of television viewers by saying "there you go again!"

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 31 December 2018 22:53 (one month ago) Permalink

idk I imagine refusing to debate him outright backfiring pretty badly. better to just use the debates as an opportunity to present your case and just engage w/ him as little as possible imho

resident hack (Simon H.), Monday, 31 December 2018 22:58 (one month ago) Permalink

Well if he's not going to debate anyway, the dem could just do their best to "fact check" (AKA prepared responses to any of his greatest hits) in real time and jim face at the camera. Maybe put on a lab coat and refer to him as "the subject" throughout.

Evan, Monday, 31 December 2018 23:03 (one month ago) Permalink

I love y’all but refusing to debate would be the worst decision of all time

Karl Malone, Monday, 31 December 2018 23:04 (one month ago) Permalink

evan's idea is realistic

💫 (Trϵϵship), Monday, 31 December 2018 23:05 (one month ago) Permalink

I felt the bottom drop out of reality when there were "moderators" who just allowed him to spew nonsense and bullshit unchecked, not to mention float about the stage like a predatory, narcissistic balloon when the camera wasn't on him.

this was pretty bad but tbh I thought the way they handled the Republican debates was worse, giving Trump 3x the time of anyone else, pausing for applause after all his dumb zingers, and then airing them nonstop as a means to get people to watch the next one

frogbs, Monday, 31 December 2018 23:15 (one month ago) Permalink

luckily I didn't have to deal with that, but after a year in America I can aver that television news here overall is absolutely and completely shitfucked

sans lep (sic), Monday, 31 December 2018 23:45 (one month ago) Permalink

I felt the bottom drop out of reality when there were "moderators" who just allowed him to spew nonsense and bullshit unchecked, not to mention float about the stage like a predatory, narcissistic balloon when the camera wasn't on him.

welcome to every corporate meeting as a non-white man ever. welcome, welcome, and welcome. This is an everyday reality that we made.

Yerac, Monday, 31 December 2018 23:54 (one month ago) Permalink

imo the only reason debates feel important is that they are literally the only time during an american presidential campaign that a significant chunk of people sit down to listen to "the issues" being discussed outside their own personal facebook bubbles. if our fourth estate functioned properly they would feel much less essential - just another podium on which to bloviate

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 1 January 2019 01:30 (one month ago) Permalink

hai americans, just checking in from the future here... not even going to tell you who is president now or how bad climate change has got cause u'll think i'm doing some extremely heavy handed satire, but y'all enjoy new year

Master Humphrey's Cock (Bananaman Begins), Tuesday, 1 January 2019 01:45 (one month ago) Permalink

Good morning!

Your sweetie-pie-coo-coo I love ya (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 1 January 2019 02:16 (one month ago) Permalink

idk I imagine refusing to debate him outright backfiring pretty badly.

I think a blunt description of why it is impossible to "debate" Trump would resonate with a lot of voters who aren't guaranteed Trump devotees. To wit...

"I won't debate him, because, face it, our president lies. A lot. And when he doesn't lie he exaggerates. And when he isn't lying or exaggerating, he raises red herrings and then he lies or exaggerates some more. Listen, the only way properly 'debate' Trump is to completely ignore whatever he says. But it's way simpler to do that by not debating him at all, because a 'debate' just gives him gives him a big, free stage for his lying antics, but doesn't gain me anything in return. I refuse to do it. With Trump it's just stupid to even attempt it. Now, got it? Good. Because that's my answer every time you ask me about 'debates'."

A is for (Aimless), Tuesday, 1 January 2019 04:45 (one month ago) Permalink

Wait, do people think he won the debates against Hillary?

Nerdstrom Poindexter, Tuesday, 1 January 2019 05:47 (one month ago) Permalink

People seemed to think it at the time.
Won debates, beat her, handed her her relevant body part.
But it seemed to be on a more emotive level than factual. People still sit through his rallies for enjoyment despite all the lies.

Stevolende, Tuesday, 1 January 2019 05:54 (one month ago) Permalink

Pretty sure you can find people who think just about anything.

sans lep (sic), Tuesday, 1 January 2019 07:15 (one month ago) Permalink

"I won't debate him, because, face it, our president lies. A lot. And when he doesn't lie he exaggerates. And when he isn't lying or exaggerating, he raises red herrings and then he lies or exaggerates some more. Listen, the only way properly 'debate' Trump is to completely ignore whatever he says. But it's way simpler to do that by not debating him at all, because a 'debate' just gives him gives him a big, free stage for his lying antics, but doesn't gain me anything in return. I refuse to do it. With Trump it's just stupid to even attempt it. Now, got it? Good. Because that's my answer every time you ask me about 'debates'."

you're dreaming if you think this doesn't read like one long chickenshit waffle. (I'm not saying it's incorrect.)

resident hack (Simon H.), Tuesday, 1 January 2019 08:04 (one month ago) Permalink

Wait, do people think he won the debates against Hillary?

― Nerdstrom Poindexter,

Depends what you measure it in? If you measure it in 'did enough in them to secure an election victory" then yes

anvil, Tuesday, 1 January 2019 08:16 (one month ago) Permalink

If you have to 'debate' Trump, you use the opportunity to just lay out your platform without ever directly acknowledging him or anything he says. Don't refute, don't respond, don't react. He doesn't fucking exist. Steamroll over every dumb fucking phoneme that burbles from his face anus and make yourself the adult in the room.

The Mandal Brah Set (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 1 January 2019 09:01 (one month ago) Permalink

Every poll showed Hilary winning the debates, iirc?

Frederik B, Tuesday, 1 January 2019 09:22 (one month ago) Permalink

Yes of course Trump people thought Trump won the debates. That’s not a thing I doubted.

Remembering that Kerry kind of made Bush look stupid in 3 debates. Feeling like 16 was a similar thing and it didn’t really matter

Nerdstrom Poindexter, Tuesday, 1 January 2019 09:24 (one month ago) Permalink

If you have to 'debate' Trump, you use the opportunity to just lay out your platform without ever directly acknowledging him or anything

Absolutely! Make use of all airtime to lay out your platform and not get into nonsense

anvil, Tuesday, 1 January 2019 13:09 (one month ago) Permalink

Every poll showed Hilary winning the debates, iirc?

― Frederik B,

All except the big one!

anvil, Tuesday, 1 January 2019 13:09 (one month ago) Permalink


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