Dynasty, s3: Canadian Politics 2018

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I don't know how the Ontario Liberals manage to do it but the new labour legislation Bill 148 might actually get me to vote for the fuckers one more time, after I was sure I was done with them by 2010 or so. These are some of the most sweeping protections for temporary and part-time workers I've seen any government implement. The way e.g. Tim Hortons franchises are responding to the minimum wage increases are mostly serving to make them look ridiculous. I'm glad I'm not seeing much serious support for the corporations in this regard.

No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Tuesday, 9 January 2018 14:21 (one year ago) Permalink

Yeah, in my circles Tim's and other businesses like Cineplex have been roundly mocked for their responses but uhhh given the nature of those circles I don't know if I can trust that there isn't a significant chunk of the country that doesn't buy the crocodile tears

Simon H., Tuesday, 9 January 2018 14:25 (one year ago) Permalink

I hate that we have to fight and scrap for even the incredibly modest gains like the ones in Bill 148

Simon H., Tuesday, 9 January 2018 14:26 (one year ago) Permalink

this is the story of my post post-secondary life

infinity (∞), Tuesday, 9 January 2018 17:56 (one year ago) Permalink

Moved from the 2017 thread:

What it comes down to, imho, at least these days, is that laïcité is used by some in Quebec as an excuse for all-out xenophobia, while others are aware of its risks yet knowingly cling to it in spite of its bad rep in the anglophone world because they believe that religion represents a dormant threat to modern societies. Quebec's relative outspokenness in the latter department is sometimes an awful thing (re: that superfluous burqa ban), sometimes a great one (I say this as someone who would never consider moving back to my home country, Romania, in no small part due to its increasingly theocratic, i.e. openly homophobic, sexist and racist, ideology).

― pomenitul, Tuesday, December 26, 2017 11:32 AM (two weeks ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I would agree it is sometimes a great one if the catholic religion was making a big comeback but it isn't. After all, the cross in the national assembly is here to stay. Really the only target is different very small religious minorities.

― Van Horn Street, Tuesday, January 9, 2018 8:09 PM (fifty minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/quebec-opposition-parties-balk-at-marking-mosque-shooting-with-day-of-action/article37538523/?cmpid=rss&click=sf_globefb

But this week, the province's two main opposition parties made it clear that, while they support a commemoration, they believe Islamophobia is a loaded term.
The Parti Quebecois says the term is too controversial, while the Coalition Avenir Quebec deems the word inappropriate because Quebecers "are not Islamophobic."

Ihsaan Gardee, director of the Muslim council, attributed the parties' position to identity politics in an election year in Quebec.

"In our view, when arguing semantics, it draws attention away from the core issues of hate and Islamophobia and anti-Muslim discrimination that are being discussed and how to effectively address them," Gardee said Tuesday.

― Van Horn Street, Tuesday, January 9, 2018 8:12 PM (forty-eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

The whole Netflix thing is so weird. I subscribe to Netflix so I don't really mind it not being taxed but it seems ridiculously unfair that Canadian companies that offer streaming services have to be taxed but any foreign companies offering the same service are not required to be taxed. Just seems like an obvious loophole that should be closed (either by taxing everyone or no one) and I don't even get why anybody is debating this.

― silverfish, Wednesday, December 27, 2017 12:23 AM (one week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

The alternative would be a special Netflix tax that would go to help funding Canadian cinema and television series. A bunch of european countries went this route, Germany and France notably. As you know I am certain, instead of that tax, Joly basically bargained with Netflix that they invest 500 millions here in Canada. I really do believe that Melanie Joly is making sure the 500 millions investment is managed by Netflix because 1. Telefilm has been absolutely incompetent at building up a lucrative film industry in Canada whereas Netflix has the strong incentive of building a more efficient and larger infrastructure, retaining talent, etc 2. Netflix is already a much better international distributor than anything Can-Con has ever had access to, 3. Ubisoft (a foreign company) and Cirque du Soleil (a Canadian one) have been successful content creating companies that got shit tons of subsidies (much more than Netflix is getting at the moment), 4. there was a danger that that big three telecoms was going to gobble up the entire private film/tv series content creation market, now there is not only one but two different alternative paths.

I am still not under 100% sure this is best idea. But I am certain that doing nothing would have been way worse.

― Van Horn Street, Tuesday, January 9, 2018 8:23 PM (thirty-seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Wednesday, 10 January 2018 02:01 (one year ago) Permalink

a long time coming

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/canada-united-states-trade-complaint-1.4480738

Canada appeared to be mounting a case on behalf of the rest of the world, since it cited almost 200 examples of alleged U.S. wrongdoing, almost all of them concerning other trading partners, such as China, India, Brazil and the European Union.

The 32-page complaint homed in on technical details of the U.S. trade rulebook, ranging from the U.S. treatment of export controls to the use of retroactive duties and split decisions by the six-member U.S. International Trade Commission.

infinity (∞), Wednesday, 10 January 2018 19:03 (one year ago) Permalink

Wow

No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Wednesday, 10 January 2018 19:24 (one year ago) Permalink

Btw re

Yeah, in my circles Tim's and other businesses like Cineplex have been roundly mocked for their responses but uhhh given the nature of those circles I don't know if I can trust that there isn't a significant chunk of the country that doesn't buy the crocodile tears

― Simon H., Tuesday, 9 January 2018 09:25 (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I thought that it was interesting that Michael Coren, who can be very conservative (at least on social issues) came out so strongly against the corporations and in favour of the raise. The CBC business panel I watched the other day was also mostly supportive. Even the Ontario PCs mostly seem to agree with a $15 minimum wage but want to get there a little slower.

No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Wednesday, 10 January 2018 19:29 (one year ago) Permalink

Well, that would be interesting. Wonder what would happen to my job.

No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Wednesday, 10 January 2018 20:49 (one year ago) Permalink

:(

pomenitul, Wednesday, 10 January 2018 21:13 (one year ago) Permalink

sending good vibes yr way sund4r

as long as you don't mind living in canada, it's not so bad once canadians have good work experience stateside and then return home

it would suck having to end your stay prematurely due to this though

i became a us citizen half a year ago but will end up moving back for good probably in a year

infinity (∞), Wednesday, 10 January 2018 21:30 (one year ago) Permalink

Thanks, guys. Tbh, I already consider coming back, for reasons I won't go into fully (but I'm spending a third of the year in Canada as it is; long distance relationships are hard). There's no guarantee I'd be renewed for another year anyway and I could probably come in on another visa if I had to. Still, it definitely raises questions.

No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Thursday, 11 January 2018 02:27 (one year ago) Permalink

Interesting - BC Supreme Court rules that indefinite solitary confinement is unconstitutional: https://bccla.org/2018/01/bc-supreme-court-ends-indefinite-solitary-confinement-federal-prisons-across-canada/

Also, not sure what to make of these exemptions to the new labour legislation that the Ontario legislature passed last week. A little disappointed: http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/provinces-new-wage-laws-wont-apply-to-film-and-tv-workers-or-students-18-and-under

No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Friday, 19 January 2018 03:02 (one year ago) Permalink

holy moly, patrick brown

while my dirk gently weeps (symsymsym), Thursday, 25 January 2018 06:24 (one year ago) Permalink

yeah just read the details of the allegations, jfc

Simon H., Thursday, 25 January 2018 12:55 (one year ago) Permalink

I'm re-watching Season 5 of the Wire and last night watched the episode where Carcetti and Norman are watching Rupert Bond's press conference on Clay Davis' indictment. Norman to Carcetti: "You'll need to have a comment. Try not to sound too gleeful about it."

My first thought after hearing it this morning was that this was probably Kathleen Wynne and her chief of staff's first exchange this morning.

Haven't read the details and probably don't want to. Ugh, good riddance.

Federico Boswarlos, Thursday, 25 January 2018 15:16 (one year ago) Permalink

conservatives in this country are really hard to distinguish from maga chuds. twitter comments on any media accounts regarding the brown story are all about feeling sorry for patrick brown and thinking its a conspiracy theory.

khat person (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 25 January 2018 17:04 (one year ago) Permalink

Could be nothing. On the other hand...

http://warrenkinsella.com/2018/01/column-metoo-isnt-just-coming-to-political-canada-its-here/

Simon H., Tuesday, 30 January 2018 15:18 (one year ago) Permalink

Wow @ the hints in the comments.

No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Tuesday, 30 January 2018 16:40 (one year ago) Permalink

If this turns out to be real that's....going to be one hell of a thing.

Simon H., Tuesday, 30 January 2018 16:56 (one year ago) Permalink

I know someone who has worked with a prominent provincial politician here in B.C. who sexually harassed her and who was just generally a pig around the office. It would be huge news if it ever gets out.

khat person (jim in vancouver), Tuesday, 30 January 2018 17:14 (one year ago) Permalink

don't know this guy, but:

Intern scandal brewing in Ottawa as the #metoo movement meets Justin Trudeau. Story soon.

— Andrew Krystal (@AndrewKrystal) January 30, 2018

Simon H., Tuesday, 30 January 2018 21:26 (one year ago) Permalink

his timeline is a treat. Gregg Zaun and Christie Blatchford retweets.

khat person (jim in vancouver), Tuesday, 30 January 2018 22:46 (one year ago) Permalink

if it is him, this would be awfully brazen: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-careful-metoo-1.4511093

rob, Tuesday, 30 January 2018 23:57 (one year ago) Permalink

i kinda doubt it's him, just bcz of the wording of the kinsella piece. but if it is, that would be pretty insane.

while my dirk gently weeps (symsymsym), Wednesday, 31 January 2018 03:20 (one year ago) Permalink

to my scandal-loving disappointment, Kinsella intimated that Trudeau was not the figure he was writing about:

The Internet is a vanity press for the deranged https://t.co/00iFn6Jy0n

— Warren Kinsella (@kinsellawarren) January 30, 2018

sean gramophone, Wednesday, 31 January 2018 03:31 (one year ago) Permalink

maybe it's his dude gerald butts?

while my dirk gently weeps (symsymsym), Wednesday, 31 January 2018 03:36 (one year ago) Permalink

my scandal-loving disappointment

I've never voted for the Liberals federally but this is still relieving to me.

No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Wednesday, 31 January 2018 03:48 (one year ago) Permalink

Nova Scotia mayor comes out

iCloudius (cryptosicko), Friday, 2 February 2018 16:58 (one year ago) Permalink

Glad now it's 'in all of us command' instead of 'in all our sons command'.

Van Horn Street, Saturday, 3 February 2018 05:17 (one year ago) Permalink

i've been parsing that line wrong all along. i always thought the patriot love was in "thy sons' command". possessive sons', command as a noun.

adam the (abanana), Saturday, 3 February 2018 06:08 (one year ago) Permalink

Wait, I've read it that way my whole life. It only just occurred to me that it makes more sense if "command" is a verb and "sons" is plural. Speaking to Canada in the imperative still seems odd, though.

No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Saturday, 3 February 2018 12:27 (one year ago) Permalink

Yep, me too.

bumbling my way toward the light or wahtever (hardcore dilettante), Saturday, 3 February 2018 12:48 (one year ago) Permalink

I think I probably did think about it once or twice and then forgot. If the original line was "thou dost in us command" as per [Removed Illegal Link], that is a much better line than either the one we grew up with or this new one. Are we also going to take the cross out of the French lyrics? Lol j/k.

No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Saturday, 3 February 2018 12:48 (one year ago) Permalink

I keep trying to imagine this happening to the White House and failing: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/24-sussex-drive-trudeau-not-living-1.4511732

No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Saturday, 3 February 2018 12:51 (one year ago) Permalink

This seems like a good history of the anthem: https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/o-canada/

In The Common School Book of Vocal Music, published by the Educational Book Company of Toronto in 1913, the original line "True patriot love thou dost in us command" was changed to "True patriot love in all thy sons command." This particular change was also included in a version published by Delmar in 1914, and in all versions printed thereafter. There is no evidence as to why the change to “sons” was made, although it is worth noting that the women’s suffrage movement was at its most militant and controversial around 1913, and by 1914 and 1916 there was an enormous surge of patriotism during the First World War, at a time when only men could serve in the armed forces.

I figured the 'thy sons' version probably took off because of the war, but didn't connect it to the suffragettes.

Up to the middle of the 20th century, public discussion relating to the anthem, evidenced by letters to the editor in the country’s major newspapers, tended to revolve around the appropriateness of the phrase “stand on guard for thee” and the controversy associated with the tune’s perceived similarity to Mozart’s “March of the Priests.”

My view, having had to listen to the damn song every morning for years, is that we ban it forever and enjoy some peace and quiet.

jmm, Saturday, 3 February 2018 16:31 (one year ago) Permalink

(also, "peoplekind" is hilariously clunky. why not "humankind"?)

Simon H., Tuesday, 6 February 2018 17:43 (one year ago) Permalink

he is such a high school teacher

while my dirk gently weeps (symsymsym), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 17:47 (one year ago) Permalink

Me cause human contains the word “man.” Sexist.

Srsly, though, what a peoplegling of the language.

bumbling my way toward the light or wahtever (hardcore dilettante), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 17:48 (one year ago) Permalink

Stupid phone. *because

“Me cause earthquake! Cave dilettante strong!”

bumbling my way toward the light or wahtever (hardcore dilettante), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 17:49 (one year ago) Permalink

I'm gonna start using hupeoplekind

silverfish, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 17:55 (one year ago) Permalink

so inclusive

while my dirk gently weeps (symsymsym), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 17:57 (one year ago) Permalink

i kinda think trudeau was kidding actually

while my dirk gently weeps (symsymsym), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 17:57 (one year ago) Permalink

I think he meant it as a bit of light ribbing. He wasn't mansplaining. The full question is at 1:06:38 here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3988&v=JDAYH0GSDWs

jmm, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 18:02 (one year ago) Permalink

(also, "peoplekind" is hilariously clunky. why not "humankind"?)

"Humanity" is a perfectly good actual English word but it does seem like ribbing (someone who was asking a very long and convoluted question) in context.

I'm not a biologist but I'm p sure "maternal love" is not the actual definition of "mitochondria" btw.

No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 18:37 (one year ago) Permalink

good old "people" is fine

though high school teacher will knock off points for being ambiguous by using the word "people" (in chicken scratch along the margin: who? what people? be specific. -5)

infinity (∞), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 19:12 (one year ago) Permalink

Yeah, my Apple Oxford dictionary defines "mankind", "humanity", and "people" almost exactly the same way: "human beings considered collectively".

No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 19:17 (one year ago) Permalink

Today in Conservative humour

(make sure you watch the video)

Timothée Charalambides (cryptosicko), Thursday, 1 November 2018 00:41 (three months ago) Permalink

I have a new job where I work with mostly well-off suburbanites in their mid-30s to early 40s and it's been a crash course in depressing reactionary trash :/

wayne trotsky (Simon H.), Thursday, 1 November 2018 00:49 (three months ago) Permalink

Wow @ that video.

Btw, it was hard to focus on Canadian politics last week with all the madness going on worldwide but ugh @ CAQ: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-chador-religious-symbols-1.4876212
and no surprise here but the repeal of Bill 148 in ON is still a disappointment: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/doug-ford-open-for-business-bill-148-repeal-1.4874351

The nexus of the crisis (Sund4r), Thursday, 1 November 2018 03:14 (three months ago) Permalink

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/clement-scheer-explicit-photos-1.4895295

this is the funniest story in canadian politics this year

( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, 7 November 2018 18:55 (three months ago) Permalink

lots of fist-hand testimony on twitter about how he's a serial instragram creeper of young women

( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, 7 November 2018 19:09 (three months ago) Permalink

that is a perfect typo

Freda VanFleet (symsymsym), Wednesday, 7 November 2018 19:09 (three months ago) Permalink

lol

( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, 7 November 2018 19:10 (three months ago) Permalink

He's out of the Conservative caucus now. Is this the Instagram stuff?

Scheer said Wednesday new evidence has come to light to suggest this incident was not isolated — and that Clement is alleged to have engaged in similar behaviour in the past.

jmm, Wednesday, 7 November 2018 20:16 (three months ago) Permalink

My DMs today (and late into last night) involve a significant number of women who have confided experiences with Tony Clement that range from similar to mine, to much, much worse. These are real women and I believe them. If you need to talk as well, feel free to reach out.

— Claire McWatt 🇬🇾 (@ClaireMcWatt) November 7, 2018

Young women VICE spoke to said Tony Clement often went on deep-timeline liking sprees after midnight. https://t.co/zV8F5oVDdk

— VICE Canada (@vicecanada) November 7, 2018

( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, 7 November 2018 20:23 (three months ago) Permalink

Just gonna leave this here

#pr4bc #prdebate #yepprorep pic.twitter.com/vimMefto0a

— BC NDP (@bcndp) November 9, 2018

josh az (2011nostalgia), Friday, 9 November 2018 21:30 (three months ago) Permalink

so painful from Horgan

( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Friday, 9 November 2018 21:34 (three months ago) Permalink

obv vote for PR tho please BC.

( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Friday, 9 November 2018 21:34 (three months ago) Permalink

i might be a citizen in time for the next provincial election and it would be nice to be able to vote for a loony-left, non-NDP party under a PR system

( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Friday, 9 November 2018 21:35 (three months ago) Permalink

In light of Doug Ford's milestone in francophobia, it's hard not to agree with the separatists when they argue that not only does English Canada not give a fuck about the French language and French Canadian culture in general, it doesn't seem to find bilingualism desirable either. I'm currently living abroad so I haven't been following Canadian politics very closely of late but this story doesn't appear to have elicited more than a collective shrug in the ROC.

La Presse's editorial sums it up nicely, for the most part: https://www.lapresse.ca/debats/editoriaux/paul-journet/201811/16/01-5204580-speak-ontarien-please.php

pomenitul, Monday, 19 November 2018 15:30 (three months ago) Permalink

Assumed this revive would be for the Ontario PCs' revolting display of transphobia or Ford's latest round of cuts. Hell province.

wayne trotsky (Simon H.), Monday, 19 November 2018 15:32 (three months ago) Permalink

Hadn't read about those yet. Triple whammy then.

pomenitul, Monday, 19 November 2018 15:35 (three months ago) Permalink

'Nbd' – most Canadian media outlets, it seems. Was the transphobia part of his platform or just thinly veiled?

pomenitul, Monday, 19 November 2018 15:58 (three months ago) Permalink

I don't see what cuts to provincial French services in Ontario (which I oppose) have to do with Quebec separatism tbh.

The scrapping of rent control on new buildings might be what I'm most angry about.

Locked in silent monologue, in silent scream (Sund4r), Monday, 19 November 2018 16:45 (three months ago) Permalink

Back when those misreported stats about English usage in QC came out, I read an outraged editorial in Le Devoir that made a big point about the symbolic importance of there being several anglophone unis in Quebec and no independent francophone uni in any other province. Maybe not a quick jump to secession from there, but the idea that ROC would prefer it if French died off is surely part of the emotional argument for separatism

rob, Monday, 19 November 2018 16:54 (three months ago) Permalink

I can't even find a recent budget estimate for the French Language Services Commissioner. The 2014-15 budget was only about $1.2 million, and if the services are just being folded into the provincial ombudsman, how much can they possibly be saving?

jmm, Monday, 19 November 2018 16:57 (three months ago) Permalink

the La Presse editorial noted that their budget represented 0.02% of Ontario's deficit

rob, Monday, 19 November 2018 16:58 (three months ago) Permalink

rob otm. The asymmetry is staggering.

xps

pomenitul, Monday, 19 November 2018 17:01 (three months ago) Permalink

the idea that ROC would prefer it if French died off is surely part of the emotional argument for separatism

I mean, I get how it works as a pretext but it seems like concern trolling if separatists are in fact using this as grounds for Quebec sovereignty. How are francophones in ROC helped if Quebec separates? When (and why) have separatists been invested in bilingualism or the state of French language services in other provinces of a country they don't want to be part of. Official national bilingualism was obviously the child of an arch-enemy of separatism.

Locked in silent monologue, in silent scream (Sund4r), Monday, 19 November 2018 17:09 (three months ago) Permalink

The Journet editorial in La Presse is good btw and I agree with it.

Locked in silent monologue, in silent scream (Sund4r), Monday, 19 November 2018 17:15 (three months ago) Permalink

Also, it's been consistently clear that the PCs don't gaf about fiscal efficiency, since they paid out large sums to cancel green energy contracts that were near completion.

Locked in silent monologue, in silent scream (Sund4r), Monday, 19 November 2018 17:18 (three months ago) Permalink

It's not that separatism would help the cause of Canadian francophones in the ROC, it's more that exasperation at the general climate of indifference, even antagonism, can rouse a desire for a clean break. Like rob said, it's an emotional response (an understandable one, imho) to a sense that the French language and francophone culture ultimately don't matter in a Canadian context, despite Trudeau's claims to the contrary. Whether this actually strengthens la francophonie in North America is a different can of worms, of course. It's just that when you live in a country where you're constantly being told to 'stop whining' or even 'fuck your insignificant language', it can be hard to stick to reasonable discourse, especially since an inverse scenario in Quebec would be met with deafening cries of 'we knew they were racist all along' or the like.

pomenitul, Monday, 19 November 2018 19:48 (three months ago) Permalink

Speaking of said hypothetical scenario, Jean-François Nadeau's suggestion made me laugh:

Imaginez un peu cette scène de pure fiction : une annonce oblique de François Legault, lancée dans l’arène publique pour faire éclater au grand jour la vacuité de nos pensées à l’égard de la minorité française au Canada. Quelque chose qui dirait à peu près ceci :

« Désormais, dans un souci de conserver la francophonie canadienne vivante — sans quoi ce pays ne sera plus qu’une vague banlieue de Cincinnati —, le gouvernement du Québec utilisera tous ses fonds destinés jusqu’ici aux services aux anglophones afin de financer les services aux francophones d’Ontario et, s’il le faut, d’ailleurs aussi. Le gouvernement québécois a bon espoir que la communauté anglophone du Québec comprendra cette nécessité économique pour contrer les injustices générées par le pire des conservatismes. Pour les plaintes, évidemment, prière de vous adresser directement au bureau du premier ministre Doug Ford. »

pomenitul, Monday, 19 November 2018 19:51 (three months ago) Permalink

I could be wrong but I'm not really sure if budget cuts in Quebec would be met with deafening cries of racism in ROC, even ones that targeted anglophone services. As far as I can remember, widespread outrage about bigotry in Quebec has usually come in response to active government efforts to legislate regulations concerning the religious symbols or clothing people can wear in various situations or to actively regulate where English or other languages can be used or taught, which is different. There might be a case to be made that withholding public funding that was previously earmarked to support a minority language is equally harmful
or discriminatory but I do feel like it would be seen differently.

Locked in silent monologue, in silent scream (Sund4r), Monday, 19 November 2018 22:44 (three months ago) Permalink

For the curious, a good high-level overview of recent Canadian right-wing fuckery courtesy of Luke Savage:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/18/toronto-doug-ford-reveals-canadian-rights-disdain-for-the-charter-of-rights

wayne trotsky (Simon H.), Tuesday, 20 November 2018 15:08 (three months ago) Permalink

Depressing. The amount of people who casually accept that might makes right is higher than we like to think.

pomenitul, Tuesday, 20 November 2018 15:36 (three months ago) Permalink

The Canadian "left" (such as it is) has never been prepared to handle this and it'll continue to get steamrolled until or unless it grows a fucking backbone. I'm not holding my breath.

wayne trotsky (Simon H.), Tuesday, 20 November 2018 15:40 (three months ago) Permalink

[extended string of violent epithets redacted]

anyway they passed back-to-work legislation this morning

resident hack (Simon H.), Monday, 26 November 2018 14:17 (two months ago) Permalink

Going back to the ROC francophones' situation there's a rather significant segment of the separatist movement that made ignoring the pleas and concerns of the ROC francophone one of their core values. Some, not all, prominent Quebec intellectual separatists have made it clear that ROC francophones are none of their concern. Those minorities would be some sort of lost cause to be used as a warning for the situation of french in North America rather than an opportunity to promote the french language within the ROC. All in all, it is kind of staggering that over the last 5 decades so little has been done for those ROC Francophones, by both their home provinces AND Quebec. Now, just look at Legault doing fuck all to amend the situation, just like the PQ, just like the PLQ did nothing to really help those people. In some intellectual milieux, including the press, the debate of whether citizens of Quebec should call themselves French-Canadians or Quebecois have been reignited; to me that is just proof of very timid solidarity Quebecois have for the ROC francophones (and other francophones of North America).

I could be wrong but I'm not really sure if budget cuts in Quebec would be met with deafening cries of racism in ROC, even ones that targeted anglophone services

― Locked in silent monologue, in silent scream (Sund4r), Monday, November 19, 2018 5:44 PM (one week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Oh boy it would. Quebec bashing has happened for much less (lol pastagate), thankfully.

Van Horn Street, Sunday, 2 December 2018 02:06 (two months ago) Permalink

Pastagate fits into this category, I think:

active government efforts to ... regulate where English or other languages can be used or taught

My suspicion is that English Canadians would regard a government doing something differently than a government not doing something.

Locked in silent monologue, in silent scream (Sund4r), Sunday, 2 December 2018 12:45 (two months ago) Permalink

Idk, though, I could be way off.

Locked in silent monologue, in silent scream (Sund4r), Sunday, 2 December 2018 12:51 (two months ago) Permalink

Sund4r, you may find this interesting: http://plus.lapresse.ca/screens/58c7800e-dafc-46a7-8575-08bcf0feb591__7C___0.html

pomenitul, Sunday, 2 December 2018 12:59 (two months ago) Permalink

I don't think that contradicts my point; I still think pastagate is an apples and oranges comparison to this. (Also, a quick Google search does turn up plenty of coverage in the English Ontario press abouot francophone protests concerning the Ford govt's budget cuts and cancellation of the French university, although most of it is more recent than Nov 20 tbf.) However, I do agree with the writer that funding minority institutions is an important way to respect those communities.

I will admit, though, that I'm not totally convinced that building a French university in Toronto was the greatest idea to begin with. Based on the 2016 census, out of ≈5.9M Toronto residents, ≈65.5K (1.11%) speak French as a first language, less than the number whose first language is Arabic (85K), Tamil (110K), or Tagalog (136K), let alone Mandarin (227K), Cantonese (≈248K), or Punjabi (171K). I do think it would make a lot of sense to build a French university here in Ottawa, where over 30% of the city lists French as their mother tongue and I use French all the time - far more comparable to the example of Montreal. (NB that there are no English universities or hospitals in Quebec City.) Whatever would be hypothetically done would have to be co-ordinated with the bilingual University of Ottawa, though, which is currently doing a pretty good job of providing education and services in French.

Locked in silent monologue, in silent scream (Sund4r), Sunday, 2 December 2018 14:06 (two months ago) Permalink

And even then, idk if an all-French university would necessarily serve francophones better than a bilingual one or if it would just serve to divide people further. Imo, McGill and Concordia can foster weirdly insular anglophone enclaves. Maybe we should be looking to expand French-language services at Carleton instead?

Locked in silent monologue, in silent scream (Sund4r), Sunday, 2 December 2018 14:31 (two months ago) Permalink

Totally riffing in the last post

Locked in silent monologue, in silent scream (Sund4r), Sunday, 2 December 2018 14:32 (two months ago) Permalink

Inaugurating a French-language university in the heart of Toronto is a gesture that would carry tremendous symbolic weight and that would go a long way towards further mending the historically fraught (i.e. hierarchical) relationship between anglophones and francophones, which remains a barely concealed wound in French-speaking Canada. Anything less is bound to be perceived as a sign or indifference, even contempt. It's hard not to feel like the linguistic majority just doesn't get it, and I say this as a non-native francophone.

pomenitul, Sunday, 2 December 2018 14:40 (two months ago) Permalink

Imo, McGill and Concordia can foster weirdly insular anglophone enclaves.

This is a valid concern, but I think that a) if you design the university from the ground up with this problem in mind, you could take pains to avoid repeating it and b) I don't know Toronto very well, but my impression is that you couldn't get by off campus only knowing French, unlike English/Montreal.

rob, Sunday, 2 December 2018 15:04 (two months ago) Permalink

Yeah, b) is true for the same reason that the idea seemed unconvincing to me in the first place.

Locked in silent monologue, in silent scream (Sund4r), Sunday, 2 December 2018 15:07 (two months ago) Permalink

I assume part of the point of locating it in Toronto is to bring new francophone residents to the city and create more French-language infrastructure, not just to serve francophone people presently there. Whether it would actually draw students is something I hope they've done empirical analysis on. We don't want a tremendous symbolic gesture that fails in the application.

jmm, Sunday, 2 December 2018 15:18 (two months ago) Permalink

Tbh I've seen zero details about what this was supposed to look like, including what size student body they were expecting. I don't think it's impossible to imagine a way this could have worked though.

idk if an all-French university would necessarily serve francophones better than a bilingual one

This is essentially my very idealistic take on Canadian language politics in general, especially if you include "English" and "anglophone" as well. The cognitive benefits of bilingualism are well established afaict, and unlike my American friends putting their kids on waiting lists for Mandarin-immersion kindergartens in Oregon, there's a cultural/social framework for making bilingualism work in Canada--provided you can ignore decades of politics lol. The impression I get from my partner's students (almost all of whom are francophones at an anglophone uni) is that there's an appetite for bilingualism among younger quebecois. Or at least among the art students...

rob, Sunday, 2 December 2018 15:37 (two months ago) Permalink

There is an 'appetite for bilingualism', but it's a one-way street.

pomenitul, Sunday, 2 December 2018 16:16 (two months ago) Permalink

Imo, McGill and Concordia can foster weirdly insular anglophone enclaves.

― Locked in silent monologue, in silent scream (Sund4r), Sunday, December 2, 2018 9:31 AM (four hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Francophones outside of the anglomontrealia are as responsible for this enclave feeling. And to be fair, there is so many more francophones (from all over the world, not just Quebec) at McGill/Concordia than anglophones in french universities.

Van Horn Street, Sunday, 2 December 2018 19:20 (two months ago) Permalink

Agreed that a new francophone Ontarian university need not be in Toronto of all places available.

Van Horn Street, Sunday, 2 December 2018 19:21 (two months ago) Permalink

just shaking my head while reading all of this tbh

like, the way this is being handled in canada is so wrong

https://globalnews.ca/news/4658188/fentanyl-china-canada-diplomatic-tensions/

“With the fentanyl crisis, and Vancouver being ground zero with imports from China paid with Bitcoin from unregulated exchanges, the U.S. government is concerned about Vancouver,” Duhaime said. “The fact that Vancouver has emerged as a safe haven for proceeds of crime is even more concerning.”

F# A# (∞), Monday, 3 December 2018 20:43 (two months ago) Permalink

one month passes...

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