Outside Cats - is it a sin?

its funny, ive had indoor cats who fully lost their minds at their first sight of another cat and ones who couldnt have given less of a fuck. with my current indoor cat who has never seen another cat, i often wonder about what his sense of self is like, whether he thinks me and him are the same kind of animal or not.

Heh. When my outdoor cat, Clementine, appears on the other side of the screen door, Sappho runs right up to her. Oftentimes, this freaks Clementine out and she retreats to a more comfortable distance! This is a little surprising, as Clementine is much bigger and tougher than li'l Sapphy. I guess her wariness fear of other cats takes control. Eventually, we adopted Alex, who's even tinier than Sappho, and a little shier toward the big mean cat outside. He too is clearly curious about her.

I wonder what my Persians must think about their confinement to the house, and suspect they might pine for the freedom to roam when confronted with Clementine's presence. I'm glad we managed to socialize my indoor cats and they have each other's company to enjoy. Sappho seemed a bit listless for some months before Alex entered the picture.

On preview: exactly what One Eye Open says! It seems very dependent on personality. And I have the same questions about what cats must think of us and how they conceive of the human species.

one of my cats will run at and attack any strange cat in his territory (the last time this happened he came off worse, because he'd just had his claws done, is mostly indoors and not really used to fighting for real as usually the other cat legs it before anything happens, the invading cat being a fully outdoor cat probably has been in a lot more scrapes than mine has). the other is more likely to run away

I think one of the books I've read about cats (The Lion in the Living Room?) does say that research suggests cats at least in some ways relate to us as other big cats, that they see us as part of the pride (or whatever) at a level above them. The way they relate to each other, though, our vet once described it as not that different from how people relate, similar to roommates. Some roommates become friends, some are just there, some are antagonistic, etc. Some click, some don't.

I LOVE CATS I LOVE THEM SO SO MUCH T____T

i read a book called Cat Sense recently that got into that, with the author positing that cats see us as some combination of parent and giant clumsy alpha-cat. the roommate idea is funny bc this author also got into a theory that cats who live in proximity but are not related will often invest energy into maintaining cordial relations with each other, and will periodically show affection or deference to each other as a way of sort of keeping up a good working relationship without actually being "friends". i am very much amused by the idea of a cat thinking "i havent rubbed my face on that other cats face in a while, i better make some time to go do it so things dont get weird between us around the automatic feeder."

like behind their rep as the ultimate in dgaf swag they have annoying social obligations just like the rest of us

Wonderful pics in this thread!

Bibi, glimpsing a robin through a window, before we'd ever let her out. Her outdoorsyness wouldn't be denied... but, a year later, that was also the end of her :(

https://live.staticflickr.com/4770/25750504558_9ede293808_b.jpg

Harriet, on her own now, encountering snow for the first time. (Went missing for 18 days summer 2020... there's a lot to be said for indoor enforcement).

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50908978818_d025e5c4c8_b.jpg

the roommates idea sort of works. I used to have 3 cats:

#1 & #2 = friends
#1 & #3 = just there
#2 & #3 = antagonistic

no longer have cat #2 so now I have 2 cats that basically just deal with each other but aren't really friends, which kinda sucks because it was so cute when #1 & #2 used to cuddle together. #1 & #3 mostly tolerate each other but do fight a bit, normally just around feeding times

yeah, lol. it's funny because cats don't have the same transparency/obviousness behaviorally as dogs do ... like dogs with barrier frustration who bark

Idk if an alien examined how humans view the cats they live with they might conclude humans think of cats as a smaller, dumber, perpetually childlike member of their clan. But it's not like we REALLY are confused by what they are yanno? I assume it's the same for how cats view us. Plus they don't sit around contemplating classifications like humans do. Accept reality for what it is and live in the moment.

xps to One Eye and MJ:

Beautiful picsharz <3 <3

I read 'Cat Sense'! Forgot about that (good) analogy, that to our cats we're giant, clumsy, unpredictable cats. That is an excellent book, it gave me lots more understanding and sympathy for cat-kind's struggle to meet the demands that human domesticity places upon them.

Speaking of cats and living in the moment, I would like to read this book: https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/cats-and-the-good-life/

Integrating 6 grown cats into one household has been incredibly interesting - just observing their interactions and working through all the introductions (and omg litterbox issues). I started the clicker training as a desperate attempt to get 3 of them to stop stalking and attacking Cherry who by rights was first cat but didn't know how to deal with bullies. Adding Cali, Leon, and Squit to the mix each within 2 weeks of each other (after Jimmy disappeared) was rough for a bit in that the intros couldn't be super slow. But all are fairly respectful of the others now and there is no extended outright aggression any more - generally a peaceable kingdom right now. The balance of cat power shifts rapidly at times though, so you never know.

I mean, who among us *doesn't* like to sleep face down like a chunky weirdo?

https://i.imgur.com/msuimtL.jpg

we've got one who does that all the time, not sure how he manages to breath in that position

breath breathe

<3 that "full loaf" sleeping

https://imgur.com/a/NDbYNfv.jpeg

Currently experiencing the down side of granting outside privileges: I haven’t seen my beautiful Butch pictures above in 24hrs now 🙁 in all likely hood he will walk in before the end of today as he’s never been away for any longer than a day and a bit, but it definitely sucks not knowing where they are even if there’s a pretty low chance of danger (this dude runs and hides from everything and stays out of sight of anything that moves, he is definitely the most danger aware of my three boys).

my cat sleeps face down often. she likes to put her paws face up and smush her face into them. i call them her paw pillows.

Best wishes for safe Butch return, H.P.

Many thanks <3

loool cat loaf <3 <3

Butch is majestic btw.

FWIW, during the last week I hadn't seen my Clementine in 4 days, and I was buggin. Then, Monday morning, she scampered right up to me as I took groceries into the house.

Hopefully Butch turns up sooner than that, H.P., but take heart that he's probably just fine, out there doing his cat thing living the good solitary cat life <3

As predicted, here is butch 30 seconds after me finding him at the door and him eating just enough bickies to get crumbs all over his chin. Thanks for the well wishing Davey, made me feel better.

https://imgur.com/a/d6AVWNt.jpg

*fist pump* yessss

Aw Butch is both majestic and a sweet goober <3

Jaq is playing Neko Atsume for real

Lololol you're not wrong! With the upgraded food and all the fun toys even :)

Another vote for Cat Sense

Butchieeeee do not scare us like that! so happy he came home safe

Went for a walk around the beach yesterday and ran into my sweet 70ish yo neighbour across the road who informed me that my Gus had learnt how to use her cat door and would come in most mornings to say gday to her and her cat Dexter. Apparently Gus and Dexter get along really well, and have formed some sort of agreement that Gus can nip at the remains of Dexter kangaroo mince brekky (way better than the stuff we give him!). I naturally at first apologised for Gus’s breaking and entering but she assured me having Gus around is one of the highlights of her day.

We spent 20 minutes talking about our cats and their blossoming social lives. Sweet suburbia

i feel like there is already a very contentious thread on this subject here called 'indoor kitty' or something

ah ha "She's an indoor kitty..."

One of those things against having indoor/outdoor cats is they will proudly bring in their still live catch. I spent yesterday morning navigating an unharmed bird out of my house. I have other horror stories they've done that I'll avoid mentioning.

i posted this on another cat thread a couple years ago but it belongs here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3-sie5pNUE

This fellow Curtis gets in and out, mostly out for his First Summer but mostly in for his First Winter, whatever he pleases really, I'm basically a butler at this point. Last few weeks he has sat at the window nardising at the birds in the near trees, then the neighbour started putting bread out for the birds so they were down on the grass and I opened window for him and he was out stalking, came haring back in whiley later with something in his mouth, I was secretly proud at his capacity to kill and right enough, he had caught... a piece of stale bread, bless. He's the most ill-behaved cat I have ever known (lately stealing fag-ends out the ashtray to throw about) but also the most gregarious, his two best friends are the postie and a cat from across the close called Sonny or possibly Sunny, I have only heard it aloud. He's no Xabi (RIP) and Xabi was no Kenny (STILL ALIVE in my heart, he just went away) and Kenny was no Paisley (RIP, ok the only cat in my lifetime to die to traffic, but I blame the driver, long painful story I don't want to relitigate. But he was a proper village cat, he used to follow me to the Doctor's and wait outside the door, or stroll down the street to visit my mother's aged cats that he knew as a kitten). But Paisley was The Greatest and no one could live up to him, mostly I LOVE Curtis and his obnoxious foibles.

Just now he brung in a frozen BEE, all excited. I assume it was pre-dead from the frost but he was so proud, and so narked when I took it off him (cus DEAD BEES CAN STILL STING!). So he's scratching at window currently to get back out and see what else he can "hunt"

I've heard that a significant percentage of indoor/outdoor cats have second (or more) families that feed them, sometimes let them in, etc.

One time Kenny was "out" all night, came home somewhat perfumed, it was noted from multiples, and I thought HMMMM, I kinda don't trust the creepy cat lady over, one time So(/u?)nny came to call on Curtis and put his nose and paws in my window and she clapped at him told him to come home, I wanted to shout at her aye, I know who's enticing my cats into her creepy house (but I didn't cus I'm a good neighbour and also freak out at human interaction). I've seen her making eyes though and shoogling treats...

In fact that boy just came chapping right now, this is them necking as greeting:
https://i.imgur.com/lf6Vcl3.jpeg

Aw.

I have a friend that had a cat stolen (!) by a neighbor!

xpost "Hmm, what kind of creature are you? Whiskers, ears, tail ... holy shit, it's another cat!" (Hissing and scratching commences)

Josh, one of my childhood cats would vanish for suspiciously long times. We found out that a neighbor was feeding him crab meat. She was surprised that we had any objection. Apropos of nothing, that cat was named Jeep (for his ability to travel vertically up furniture).

Our current cat, Oliver, had been a stray when we met him. A family acquaintance found him at a bus stop and thought we might be a good choice of home.

My wife and children loved him immediately and wanted to keep him. I was a little skeptical, because he looked like a kittypet and probably already had a family.

As it turned out, he had a chip and did, in fact, have a family. But that family didn't want him back and had already replaced him. Apparently he had too much cattitude for them. Hence he became ours. He is good beastkind.

But it took a while - he escaped once, before he'd had time to really grasp the concept of home. It was a big effort to get him back. Hence he's inside for the foreseeable future. Honestly I'd feel a smidge better about letting him out if I had any confidence he would return.

outside of an aforementioned cat that had passed on, my other 2 cats were abandoned by a tenant that had previously rented the place we were living at the time. our landlord didn't have the heart to take them to the kennel as they were very nice and sweet and were known to have been outdoor cats. this was pretty far out in the country, maybe 5 other houses within a mile of our place. over time we'd check in on them/feed them and eventually adopted them as our own.

These cats sound marvelous and I would like to see pictures of them plz

& more stories of catventures w/ happy endings purr favor

toesy bro:

https://i.imgur.com/MwflQZv.jpg

I also, would like to request the furtherance of happy cat stories and furry photos.

In return, here is one of my own. Notice Butch’s subtle claw-flex just in case Gus tries any funny business.

https://imgur.com/a/lf9C1MJ.jpg

xp: so many toes!

yesss, thread delivers.

i'm dead tired but i will return with stories/photos

Outside cats benefit the community. The three main outside cats in my London square are valued personal friends.