"She's an indoor kitty..."

Sure, cats are "outdoor animals", but let's be serious here: if my cats could talk, I think that the whole "staying indoors" thing wouldn't really be their biggest complaint; I think that the fact that I had them castrated would be much higher on their list of grievances.

p.s. i didnt declaw her, her previous owner did!

It seems like something bad inevitably happens to outdoor cats, whether it's fights or diseases or just going on wild kitty adventures for a few days that stress their owners the fuck out.

And not only that but quite a lot of cats, because, you know, domesticity is an attempt to BREED OUT THESE INSTINCTS IN CATS, are actually terrified of outdoors. Mine, for example, won't even go into the hallway in our building. We have to drag him out on the balcony.

p.s. i didnt declaw her, her previous owner did!

Same deal with my cat -- the previous owner declawed him, I think he'd be totally defenseless if he were left to his own devices outside.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Is this some kind of fucking joke?

(several xposts)

However, he still has his claws. Declawing is a horribly cruel thing to do, far worse than castration.

And, I know, there *are* some cats who will refuse to go outside. I've known cats who live in two-bedroom flats who are quite happy to stay inside, and terrified of stepping out of the door. The common thread with all the cats I've known like this is that they were all from the cats' shelter, and were all mistreated by previous owners; I've also known mistreated cats that weren't like this, though.

You say that now...

really though I would let them out if I weren't worried about it. I live somewhere with less traffic now. Well, I'd let one of them out; the othe one is terrified of everything and prefers to live under our bed.

http://www.worth1000.com/entries/167500/167500mrTQ_w.jpg

I mean, seriously, even if you have a backyard in the urban environment you shouldn't be letting the cat out, because one day he will jump fence to the neighbor's yard and then keep going. This is not such a big issue in a suburban environment, but in urban...next thing you know, you're hosting cat drug orgies.

xpost

then we go fetch it

This is not at all applicable for sooo many people and cats. If you have a nice neighborhood with no wandering wild animals and trust your cat to return, it might work. If you live in an apartment, hell no. I've only seen a couple cats that can work well with a leash, some just freeze up and refuse to move or go insane and try to rip it off.

Other cats absolutely refuse to be "fetched" and will run like hell if any human approaches them while outside. If you don't have a porch where the cat can return hours later, you're screwed.

Domesticated housecats aren't necessarily outdoor animals. They also enjoy live food a lot more than dead stuff, but I don't see very many people releasing mice in their house when it's mealtime for the cat. If you forced a cat to live off of what it can catch, you'd be considered inhumane.

THAT. WOULD. BE. AWESOME.

xpost there's where mike is wrong, I do that all the time.

http://www.sfspca.org/WhereWeStand/wherewestand_jan_02.shtml

Also, andy, when I got my newest cat from animal care and control, I had to promise not to let the cat out. I'm not saying I follow their strictures religiously or anything, but I imagine they have good reasons for not wanting domesticated cats outside, most of which have to do with the cat's safety.

i could never keep him in, and i'm not sure its safer either. the other night, a crane fly zipped in the house and started bothering him. it irritated him enough to clump it down in one slow, graceful, bloodthirsty movement, and then he stuffed the still-jittering bug into his fluffy white chops. the look on his face as he tasted it will live on in laughter for years.

ihttp://www.flickr.com/photos/steviechickfoxyboxer/48742114/

What, exactly, is this woman doing????

(xpost)

Gear! takes care of the latter for us. He just needs to train the cats.

My cat is declawed (previous owner), and has never been let loose outside. The cat never had a desire to escape the previous owner's house (even though all her other cats did). This is why I chose her to live in my 5th floor apartment building in downtown SF. It's a perfect match. Each situation is different. Some cats go ape-shit if they are never let outside. Mine rarely feels the need to sit on the window sill, let alone get out. Also, my cat is a Siamese. I've heard from various people that Siamese aren't as interested in getting out.

My experience is completely the reverse - when I didn't let him out, stopping him getting out was a terrible struggle, because whenever the front door was opened he'd dash for it. Now, he's fairly calm and much less aggressive about getting out.

"Did you know Barbie's measurements, if projected to adult size, would be 38-18-34?"

I'm convincing myself to bring the cat outside, this is for certain.

My sister's cat likes to go outside. He is also a Siamese. he screams and yells and howls...until someone blows cigarettes on him, or lets him smell a bleach bottle. This is what the outdoors does to a domestic animal.

Guidelines for Cats

Doors:
Do not allow closed doors in any room. To get door opened, stand on hind legs and hammer with forepaws. Once door is opened, it is not necessary to use it. After you have ordered an "outside" door opened, stand halfway in and out and think about several things. This is particularly important during very cold weather, rain, snow, or mosquito season. Swinging doors are to be avoided at all costs.

Chairs and Rugs:
If you have to throw up, get to a chair quickly. If you cannot manage in time, get to an Oriental rug. If there is no Oriental rug, shag is good. When throwing up on the carpet, make sure you back up so that it is as long as the human's bare foot.

Bathrooms:
Always accompany guests to the bathroom. It is not necessary to do anything . . . just sit and stare.

Hampering:
If one of your humans is engaged in some close activity and the other is idle, stay with the busy one. This is called "helping", otherwise known as "hampering." Following are the rules for "hampering":

When supervising cooking, sit just behind the left heel of the cook. You cannot be seen and thereby stand a better chance of being stepped on and then picked up and comforted.

For book readers, get in close under the chin, between eyes and book, unless you can lie across the book itself.

For knitting projects or paperwork, lie on the work in the most appropriate manner so as to obscure as much of the work or at least the most important part. Pretend to doze, but every so often reach out and slap the pencil or knitting needles. The worker may try to distract you; ignore it. Remember, the aim is to hamper work. Embroidery and needlepoint projects make great hammocks in spite of what the humans may tell you.

For people paying bills (monthly activity) or working on income taxes or Christmas cards (annual activity), keep in mind the aim-to hamper! First, sit on the paper being worked on. When dislodged, watch sadly from the side of the table. When activity proceeds nicely, roll around on the papers, scattering them to the best of your ability. After being removed for the second time, push pens, pencils, and erasers off the table, one at a time. When a human is holding the newspaper in front of him/her, be sure to jump on the back of the paper. They love to jump.

I have to add, if you see, hear, or smell someone somewhere in the house sit on the floor and open a newspaper in front of them, come immediately and sit right smack on top of the article they're reading.

If anyone in the house, anyone whatsoever, sits on the floor to go through the DVDs or the CD collection, the cat will instantly find this person the most fascinating person in the world, stomp all over them, climb on the books of DVDs/CDs, scream and yell, etc etc etc. This does not occur if a person just chooses to sit on the floor. That person is a boring person. A person looking at DVD cases however is fascinating.

Old Mr. Johnson had troubles of his own.
He had a yellow cat that wouldn't leave him alone.
He tried and he tried to keep that cat away.
Took it up to Canada and told it for to stay.

CHORUS:
But the cat came back the very next day.
The cat came back. They thought it was a goner,
But the cat came back; it just wouldn't stay away.

He gave it to a man going up in a balloon.
He told him to give it to the man up in the moon.
The balloon it must have busted; well, that's what they all said,
'Cause ten miles away, they picked the man up dead.

Now, this cat was a terror and they thought it would be best,
To gave it to a feller who was going way out West.
His train went 'round a curve and hit a broken rail.
Not a soul was left alive to tell the gruesome tale.

Now the cat was a possessor of a family of its own.
There were seven little kittens, 'til there came a cyclone.
It tore the houses all apart and tossed the cat around.
The air was filled with kittens, but not one was ever found.

Away across the ocean they did send the cat at last.
Vessel only out a day and taking water fast.
People all began to pray; the boat began to toss.
A great big gust of wind came by and every soul was lost.

They threw him in the kennel where the dog did lie asleep,
Where the bones of other cats lay piled in a heap.
That kennel burst apart and the dog flew out the side,
With the dog's ears chewed off and holes in its hide.

He gave it to a little boy with a dollar note.
He told the boy to take the cat up river on a boat.
They tied a rock around its neck - it must have weighed a pound.
And now they search the river for the little boy who drowned.

At last they found a way for this cat to really fix,
They trapped it in an orange crate down on highway 66.
Come a ten ton truck with a twenty ton load,
Scattered pieces of that crate a mile down the road.

The farmer on the corner said he'd shoot the cat on sight.
He loaded up his shotgun full of nails and dynamite.
He waited in the garden 'til that cat came walking 'round.
Seven little pieces of the man was all they found.

They strapped a bull's eye to its chest and tied it to a fence.
They lined up with their pistols; everyone was feeling tense.
It glared at them with eyes of green and with its teeth it spat.
And when the smoke had cleared away, they couldn't find the cat.

The H-bomb fell just the other day.
The A-bomb fell in the very same way.
Russia went! England went! And then the USA.
The entire human race was left without a chance to pray.

As Ally points out, this part of your argument is not actually true.

My cat was having some issues, and so after five or so years of being an indoor kitty, she was allowed out with strict supervision. It seemed to calm her down. Then one day she got stuck under the overhang of a neighbor's building. (When I tried to figure out how to get her out, she came out on her own. "You could have done that the whole time?!") Anyway then I moved to my current place, which is a courtyard apartment thingy, however you describe it, but anyway there are lots of gardens and none of the streets outside are especially busy. She mostly just stays right outside the door, and sometimes plays with the other cats. She tries to go out at night, but this is discouraged since there are sometimes raccoons that come by at night. I am hoping she doesn't get too brave about her wanderings.

Anyway, if a cat is having anxiety issues or seems unhappy being indoors, it's fine to let her out supervised (assuming it's not a dangerous neighborhood). If it's happy being indoors then why show it what it's missing? Let it be happy.

She's an indoor kitty
There's got to be a twist
An indoor kitty
No fleas up in this bitch

I thought I was the only one with a cat that does this. Mostly she's fine, but sometimes, and again in the presence of plenty of food, water, and attention, she sees it fit to walk around and yodel at the top of her voice for 20-30 minutes. Sometimes an hour. Then she settles on top of the record player and is fine for the rest of the night. It makes no sense, and it's very annoying.

Maybe she wants to go outside.

A woman I know who is a confessed animal-strong-disliker let her kids get two (free) kittens last year. After paying many hundreds of $$ for shots, neutering, microchipping and the like, she left them out one night and they were eaten by coyotes.

So then you club her unconscious with an empty wine bottle and go back to bed.

One of our cats talks to himself most of the day, but in a low conspiratorial mutter.

Yeah.

I think my cat suffers from ennui.

This is because cats, being cats, are killing all the native birds/possums/other native wildlife, escaping and going feral, etc etc.

Also as a lot of people have pointed out - what if you have no "outside"? My only "yard" is my balcony and my cat is quite happy to wander out there, sit and view her domain from the safety of being higher up than her peons.

Ditto. My cat was all outdoors, all the time. Went on walkabout, took peyote and fought all of the animals. Tuff.

This is how tough: walked into the woods a few weeks ago and never came back. Rest in peace, Spike.

http://static.flickr.com/14/15332076_a78272c6e9.jpg

It's hard to adopt a cat from a shelter in the UK if you're not going to let it out, though. They like to only give cats to people with gardens, so we had to go through an ad in the paper to get the kitten. Unfortunately he has chlamydia and infected his big brother but they're both fine now on antibiotics.

http://static.flickr.com/27/49293752_7db6882198.jpg?v=0

Mr Chang thinks indoor cats are pussies.

my vet is HOTT. BUT CHANG HAS FLEAS. ew. i don't think she was impressed.

Plus our street is pretty densely populated and if the cats did get out we'd never be able to find them.

**and we have a lot of foxes.**

A cat will see off a fox.

**we'd never be able to find them**

They will come back.

This might turn into a discussion of "monkey vs horse" level proportions, I'd be careful...

I've seen a couple of cat/fox confrontations walking home late at night, and it's true that the fox thought better of it and went off, although one time we shooed it away ourselves.

Anyway, as I said above, both cats have chlamydia and therefore weakened immune systems so there's the risk of disease as well. Plus the kitten's still got his bollocks (for the time being).

As for them coming back, how would we know unless we sit outside our building waiting for them? I'm on the 2nd floor!

Ah well. Thanks. Cat/Spike was tough as nails. I'm sure he died honorably. What's the feline equivalent of the final shootout of Scarface?

Also if you are going to let your cat climb into neighbor's yards that's completely inconsiderate and rude. Whether or not you seem to live under some delusion that cats always come back no matter what, I mean if your neighbors wanted eaten plants and dead bugs and rodents and cat shit in their yards, I'm sure they'd put it there themselves. If I lived next door to you lot, I'd buy a German Shepard in 3 minutes.

xpost Dan that is what I think. If you live in a non-rural area you need to keep the kitty on a leash and supervise it if it wants to go out. And not just because it's funny to see a cat on a leash.

My parents' cats:
Ginger Andrea Clorox: Outdoor cat, hit by a car
Pickles: Outdoor cat, hit by a car
Jane: Indoor cat, went out once and was mauled by neighborhood dogs, never went out again, died at 19 of old age.
Igneal: Outdoor cat, shot by a pellet gun, died at 12 of brain thingy from eating poison food.
Imor: Outdoor cat, shot by a pellet gun (the pellet it still in his right hind leg), hit by a car, 10 years old and still alive. Keep it real, boy!
Gandalf: Outdoor cat, hit by a car.
Arwyn: Indoor only, one year old, still alive.
Isabella: Indoor only, months old, still alive.

All three of ours are alive and healthy and cuddly and flea-free and don't go outside because we live in Chicago and there are signs all over the alley informing us that the city has set out rat poison, plus cars, plus evil people with pellet guns, plus mean little shit kids you do horrible things to sweet, trusting, lovey cats. I'm comfortable enough with our decision that I'm not even that upset that someone might think I'm a terrible person for it.

Sample DeKuyper does that crazy MEOW MEOW MEOW thing, too. I think she gets lost in the apartment. I just call her and she comes running and jumps on me for attention and that takes care of that.

For excercise. For fresh air. So it can shit out there. So it can climb trees. So it can, you know, do cat stuff.

**Also if you are going to let your cat climb into neighbor's yards that's completely inconsiderate and rude.**

What? Are you totally serious? You think I should sit the cat down and negotiate some ground rules? 'Hey, avoid Mrs. Smith's dahlias, but you should be OK as long as you dump the mice behind the shed'.

**I mean if your neighbors wanted eaten plants and dead bugs and rodents and cat shit in their yards**

Hey, Ally. THEY BURY THEIR SHIT! Well, yours doesn't, obviously, since it's cooped up in a yuppie apartment. But OUTDOOR CATS DO! And DEAD BUGS! Oh fuck no! DEAD BUGS IN THE YARD. CALL THE FUCKING EMERGENCY SERVICES! DEAD BUGS! DEAD BUGS! OH HELP!

And yes, you should "negotiate some rules". My sister manages to keep her cat from rummaging neighbors' yards, as does a former friend of mine. It's not that hard to watch your own pet. I mean don't get one if you find this an impossible task.

A) perfectly happy indoors
B) reticient to go outside

I mean who is anthromorphosizing the cat now?

I have stolen someone else's outdoor/indoor cat, when I was little!

You don't 'watch' them - you let them find their own territory, depending on what other cats live close etc. And guess what, if a big dog moves next door, THEY DON'T GO IN THERE ANY MORE!

Ally! Shame on you.

I mean who is anthromorphosizing the cat now? **

She wasn't perfectly happy indoors. She was lethargic and anxious, despite being 2 yrs old. It wasn't through boredom, as she there is usually someone at home for company. The vet could find nothing wrong. She seemed to want to go out, but would run in terrified after a few minutes. She would only go out if someone was in the garden, but clearly enjoyed running around, lying in the sun, exploring etc. I believe that it was the right thing to do to keep encouraging her out. Now she's happy to come and go all the time, looks in much better condition and is a different cat altogether.

**So, what we cat owners are *SUPPOSED* to do is let the cats out and just hope they don't get squashed by a car on the city streets. Is that correct O Grate 1? **

No, I didn't say that. My point is that if you live in a suitable place where the cat CAN go out, then it should go out. Ally's busy telling me that it's all wrong because of infringing on neighbours' privacy and leaving DEAD BUGS all over the place.

Personally I wouldn't keep a cat in a place where the traffic was so bad that it was in serious danger of being run over. Or where it couldn't go out for any reason.

Note that I stated that and that my 'fuck you' was conditional.

Why on Earth would anyone think you were making blanket generalizations based on that? It's madness, I tell you.

much like... humans.

When I'm really angry, I pee in the laundry basket.

I would like to apologize to Ally and M.White for losing it, being rude and sarcastic and, as I say, generally being an arse. I'm sorry!

"i am not scared of bugs or foxes or vets with clippers"

There are plenty of indoor kitty's in the uk, my friends had one when they lived in the stockbridge area of Edinburgh, now though they're living in the middle of the countryside and he's turned into a right little mouser, much to their annoyance. There certainly isn't much declawing in the UK, so I think Dr C is on the mark - indoor cats in built up areas only.

I'd like a cat, but we live in a first floor flat, and letting them in and out would be a pain in the butt. Plus my mum would never forgive me as she's got really bad asthma.

We live in a main road, which has never been a problem, but a few years ago one of our cats was run over (though the driver was actually nice enough to stop and give us a ride down to the vet). After this, we made sure only to let the cats out the back door, even if they were pawing at the front door, and it's not happened again (thank god). Of course he finds his way out the front pretty quickly, but I think it's made the whole area in front of the house seem a little more alien and unwelcoming so he'll be cautious when he gets out there. I've often seen him out and about when I've been over the park or walking down to town and he's the same old cat, he'll still recognize his owner and come up to me for a fuss.

He's pretty tough too - a couple of months ago I heard a racket out the back and saw him pwning a fox! He was batting it in the face with his claws and making the most godawful shrieking noise. Eventually the fox limped off silently, so Dr. C OTM re: foxes (and re: a lot of things).

with our cats it just seemed unnatural to keep them in. if they die or whatever, oh well! i mean, i care, but having a lethargic, overweight depressed cat vs. a happy, rascal cat is worth the risks.

if the cat's not into tho, that's cool.

now spaying and neutering.... that's a different deal and i probably sound hypocritical, but uh unless you live on a farm or want to deal with giving your kittens away, it just seems unwise. being a cat lady/dude is the fast track to health code violations and getting on the news for being a FREAK!
m.

But tagged kids are SO much easier to find say if you leave them somewhere, like the supermarket.

http://www.facebook.com/ilovecatz?v=feed&story_fbid=111773784896

I think they should punish those who declaw their cats by chopping off their fingertips up to the first knuckle. After all, that's pretty much what they're doing to their cats when they have them declawed.

it´s a crime and they should be punisched... it´s cruell!!!would you live without fingernaigels???

nothing wrong with keeping a kitty indoors, but declawing is pretty cruel imo.

fingernaigels

my cat has nails.
he also has a bunch of mosquito bites on his ears from going outside. they are all gnarly little bumps the poor man :(

ppl who declaw their cats drive me nuts. it's not THAT hard to teach a cat to quit clawing the furniture, and if you can't bear being scratched a little once in a while you probably shouldn't own a pet in the first place.

I would never declaw but my cat srsly does need a claw trim - even when retracted her claws poke out a bit. She has a habit of gently patting my face with her paw to say "me me gimme pats" but she cant help but scratch me even when she's extra-careful, which she tries to be! Its so cuet <3

we take our cat out for walks in the apartment courtyard a few times a week, letting her climb trees and chase lizards, etc., and that seems to keep her happy. i can't imagine just putting her outside without supervision -- every cat owner i know who's done that ends up losing their cat sooner or later, to cars or coyotes (i live in the southwest).

Yeah same, my cat would bolt (and has tried to) when Ive let her out back. THough I'm sure she'd not go far, I'm too concerned to try. Also, our new house is raised up and looks like a determined cat could squeeze under there... and then get stuck, knowing my idiot cat. And she'd get into biffo with a possum.

i can totally understand keeping your cat indoors if you live in an urban area. my family has 3 cats, all of which are allowed outside as they please (this is the suburbs) and they come back just fine - your cat will come back if it likes you. my one cat is pretty badass and likes hunting a lot so we won't see her for days at a time sometimes but we know she's fine

keeping it inside if you live in a safe, suburban community is fuckin cruel tho

my friend tried this.
went well for about 2 weeks until his neighbour asked him to come out and clean his cat up off the street.

keeping it inside if you live in a safe, suburban community is fuckin cruel tho

oh fuck you!

we've had our cat in the house for 12 years now and she's fine.

and yeah letting your cat outdoors is great until they come back with some disease or get run over. which happened to our previous cats and it's why my family has kept our other cats indoor.

i mean, just fuck this whole "keeping them indoors is cruel because they can't unleash their inner jungle beast and be happy" romantic bullshit.

i mean, not that i''m saying it's bad to let them outside or anything, just, i just really, really resent the insinuation that i'm being cruel to my kitty, who has overall been a pretty healthy, outgoing, very sweet and happy cat.

it's not like they're orcas or wildebeest. they're cats!

declawing is some bullshit though.

Anyway, I'll bow out before I embarrass myself further.

Remember to spay and neuter your pets!

i had both inside and outside cats growing up. The inside ones seemed pretty well adjusted, it was the outside dudes that would get themselves fucked up someway or another.

I wanna apologize to k3vin k. upthread. Even though I disagree with his post that was a dumb thing for me to blow up over.

the claws really came out there.

The shelter we adopted our cats from made us sign a legal agreement that the cats would be indoor only. Is this common these days? To be honest, the heavy four lane traffic on our street directly outside would probably mean that our cats would be run over within a day.

Declawing cats is illegal in the UK.

There is a big US/UK divide on the issue of indoor cats. Our 2 cats are pretty much indoors, we let them out into the backyard occasionally when it's a nice day, but one doesn't really like to go any further than the steps outside the back door.

When we wanted to get our 2nd cat we tried to get a rescue cat from various shelters and they wouldn't let us have one because (at the time) we lived in a flat and didn't have a garden - they would rather put a cat down than have it be an indoor cat, which I thought was pretty stupid, but there you go. We had to buy a kitten from an online ad instead.

I had a declawed kitty once, the beautiful and elegant Mephistopheles. She came that way, however (she also came with the name of "Fluffy," two strikes against her former owner). At the same time, we had a bitchy, obese, but elegant orange cat, John Conner. John Conner had all of his claws and a proclivity for honky-tonkin' all summer long. No matter how well we secured the house, he'd be bitching outside the door the next morning, whining for food. I felt bad for poor young Meph, whose lack of claws meant she could never go find midnight poetry readings in the big kitty outdoors.

John Conner the cat!

My roommate is watching his parents ancient, arthritic doggie for two weeks. My cats reaction to this dogs arrival was a bit troubling. First he ran out back & hid in the weeds, and then when the dog walked towards him he jumped to the top of the fence (chain link fence covered in vines.) If he had hopped down to the other side of the fence, he may have gotten stuck in the neighbors yard or run away, or any other scary possibility. What does a man do? I just moved into this place abt three weeks ago, and Ivan has been very good about not trying to escape the backyard, but seeing him on the top of the fence made me nervous.

Also, I just moved his litter box to the backyard (under the roof) for the next few weeks while the dog is here. His box was in the basement, but we have to keep the basement door closed so the dog doesn't fall down the stairs and break itself. Is it possible that he will feel like I am rejecting him by moving his box? The other option was to keep the box in my bedroom. I was doing that for the first week or so of living here but moved it to the basement when I made the realization that I was never ever going to get laid if I had a litter box in my bedroom.

Despite the poison that the city puts out, there are still rats in our alleys bigger than our cats, so even if it weren't for the traffic and the high probability of some hateful abusive jerk hurting my very friendly cats, I would neverevereverever let them outside.

I've thought about getting a harness and taking them into the courtyard, but our eldest is a total bitch about any kind of restraint, by which I mean she will turn from being the sweetest and most even tempered animal ever to a murderous, blood thirsty fiend when I try to put a collar on her or put her in a carrier or remove her from the bathroom or push her off the coffee table, and our youngest is terrified of sudden movements, loud noises, strangers, bugs, or change of any kind, so I just think it would be folly to even try.

Indoor kitties, the both.

San Francisco wants to ban de-clawing

When we wanted to get our 2nd cat we tried to get a rescue cat from various shelters and they wouldn't let us have one because (at the time) we lived in a flat and didn't have a garden - they would rather put a cat down than have it be an indoor cat, which I thought was pretty stupid, but there you go. We had to buy a kitten from an online ad instead.

Are you in the UK? Because friends of mine got two kittens from a rescue shelter and they were told they weren't allowed to have them if they were going to make them outside cats because they there is a busy road directly outside their front door.

both of the people i got my cats from, and every vet i've taken them to, have warned me against letting them outside. not that i would anyway. i had 3 cats growing up - and 2 out of 3 of them met a violent death before they lived 6 years. one from a car, the other from FIV. and both happened in the suburbs. the third has been an indoor cat for the past two years, and nearly died twice - once from eating some kind of poison shit, and once from having a garage door closed on him.

current cats are very happpy and exhibit very little desire to go outside (they get nutty when there are a lot of birds hanging around). i live in SF by a busy street, and would freak out if they escaped. OP of this thread really comes off like a pious dick. i hope his gf's cat is still ok.

actually i forgot about our first cat, who also got smashed by a car. so that's 3 out of 4. :(

once my boyfriend got home and the cat was sitting on the front stoop in brooklyn

The last of my childhood pets alive was the first we kept indoors, and she's now coming into 12-13 years old without ever having to see the vet for being sick. All the previous outdoor cats were lost to disease or disappearance.

She (and my two current cats) have never exhibited any desire to go outside. Spike got out one time and spent a couple of hours on my apartment porch. Then promptly cried to come inside.

i finally live in a place where i could theoretically let my cat out but as she's gone ten years inside it's prob not a good idea to start

oh haha also... the other day... i was in the back and she started mewing like crazy like when she finds one of my socks on the floor. i ignored it but finally went to the front and i had accidentally left the door open (which i NEVER do for fear of her taking off)... but she was just sitting in the doorway looking at the street with a worried look on her face.

Where we live now has really deep window ledges and I'll open the windows over the fire escape balcony to let the boys amuse themselves outside. The city birds just torment the cats - seagulls swoop past right over their heads, crows dive bomb them, and this cheeky flock of english sparrows would sit on the railing of the fire escape and chitter at them for long frustrating minutes. They've survived with FeLV for 10 years this month, though Morrie is really creaky and decrepit now. Also bad tempered - he charged after a houseguest on Saturday, claws out and hissing, snagged her pants leg but didn't scratch her fortunately. I've never seen him in such a murderous rage. And what had she done to deserve this? Only opened 1 of the 2 windows, apparently. And then had the temerity to look him in the eye.

sounds fair in cat terms

I got them a roomba - it's great to watch Morrie stalk it. Drac keeps trying to stare it down as it comes straight at him.

Haha I wanna get one of those for my cat to freak out at :D

Are you in the UK? Because friends of mine got two kittens from a rescue shelter and they were told they weren't allowed to have them if they were going to make them outside cats because they there is a busy road directly outside their front door.

Yeah, in London. We tried a few different places and they all said the same thing - no indoor cats for you.

ITT America gets touchy about how weak and complacent its cats are

Cosmo & Bob are indoor cats.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2611/3894263526_224bc84575.jpg

We researched breeds that were suited to being kept indoors pretty thoroughly before we got them, though; we're on the 2nd & 3rd floor of a building near a main road, with only a small communal yard at the back - we couldn't let a cat out, and it'd be cruel to keep a moggy in.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3580/3564087426_de7ca866d9.jpg

The breeders we got them from were both very keen to check that we weren't going to let them out, actually; the second breeder had a pen built into her (extensive) garden that was 'fed' via a tunnel over their garage from the house, meaning that her ragdolls COULD get out into the outdoors, but couldn't roam free. As a breed they've got no territoriality and very little instinct for self-preservation, so they'd get lost / run over / beaten up very quickly.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3474/3370560312_8afed08a3b.jpg

It's fair to say that we go to pretty extreme lengths to keep them happy.

Took me five minutes to find the cat face in that first picture, and I'm still not sure what's going on in the rest of it. It's freaking me out a little bit.

Split it right down the middle; Cosmo's on the left, Bob on the right - they're curled up together, and Cosmo's frontleft paw is outstretched towards the camera. Bob's face is hidden under Cosmo's frontright paw-elbow.

OHHH ok I see.

Thank you. Really. :)

Our neighbor's cat was hit by a car a few weeks back and we found her next to our house around 10 pm. She was in rough shape, but probably could have made it with some surgery and some care. They are poor and couldn't afford surgery and also couldn't even afford to take her to the emergency vet to have her put down quickly. So they waited for hours for animal control to come put her down (apparently, there is only one animal control officer who works night shifts in all of Baltimore County).

Basically, don't have a pet if you can't afford to care for it, but especially don't have an outdoor pet if you can't afford to care for it. :' (

That's awfully sad.

Every time I see a cat dart across a major street (especially without a collar) my first instinct is to follow it and pick it up and bring it home and feed it and get it out of the fucking street. Even if it belongs to someone. When you live somewhere with a density of 23,000 people per square mile, don't let your cat out. You idiot.

When you live somewhere with a density of 23,000 people per square mile, don't let your cat out. You idiot.

ts: cat used to going outdoors and aware of phenomenon of 'main road' vs. indoor cat that accidentally gets out and has no idea how to function in big wide world

i get that you've had bad experiences or whatever but, uh, not every outdoor-going cat dies of cars or contagions or coyotes? I mean, sometimes they also die of kitty leukemia.

It's pretty much an accepted fact that if a cat goes outside a house it will be dead within four minutes.

Some will, probably. Depends on how well they know what they're doing. The longer you keep a cat in the house, the more you should not let it out.

My cat is a mean bitch with a well-developed defense mechanism against, say, innocent guests. (Sorry, innocent guests.) But I don't think she's ever seen a car driving on a road. For all I know, she would try to pick a fight with it. Cats are not too bright, they're honestly not.

I think your cat is honestly not very bright.

I think most cats are generally capable of discerning that they are unlikely to win a fight against this big thing coming toward it quickly, and therefore the best plan is to scamper out of the way. Not always, of course.

I'm not saying that anyone whose cat is outside is a bad person. I grew up with cats that were indoor/outdoor, and some just outdoor. We lived in the country. However, living in the middle of a damn metropolis and deciding that this is a great place to have an outside cat, because cats are all smart and shit and can care of themselves... this is reckless. This displays far too much faith in a kitty's little walnut brain, and, if I may be so bold, something of a lack of regard for what becomes of said kitty. Particularly when kitty will be just fine inside, all the time, forever. Walnut brain.

(That last fragment was meant to re-emphasize that this is not an advanced animal. Not to imply that N1ck has a walnut brain.)

Eh, I've been accused of worse. In all honesty, I think there can be no general rule for this. My cat has lived his entire life with free reign of the outdoors, with my house backing onto fields and opening onto a pretty busy road. I used to worry like mad about him escaping out the front door but then I'd get home from school and he'd've come round the side of the house, sitting in the front garden wearing this "s'up homes" expression. Nothing I could do about it, but he's still alive so clearly at least a bit streetwise.

He could never be an indoor cat but unless they're scratching like crazy at doors or mournfully gazing out the window you are not being cruel by keeping them inside.

Not read whole thread, but have outdoor cats (as in catflap - they come and go as they please), and without trying to be too judgmental, I think it is cruel to keep cats indoors, despite the dangers of traffic/disease/fighting other cats.

If that worries you too much, you shouldn't keep cats, imo. I wouldn't keep a dog, as we don't have the space or the time. So people who don't have a back garden, (or access for the cats to someone elses), need to really think about whether they should have a cat.

I realise this is different for different breeds, as well. But regular moggies are a territorial animal, even though they are domesticated.

I should point out that one of my cats has three legs, as he got hit by a train. But he's fine now, and still enjoys his freedom, although he's not getting over any fences! I still hold to my argument!

My sister has a rural farm and needs a fairly constant supply of kittens to keep cats around for rodent control. Even though they have a lovely accessible barn, and grow up outdoors, the cats are regularly found dead/dying on the road. They stopped naming them and considering them pets a long time ago.

I'm pretty comfortable with strangers on the internet thinking I'm a bad person for keeping my cats inside.

I think it is cruel to keep cats indoors, despite the dangers of traffic/disease/fighting other cats.

That seems to be the crux of the argument. I disagree.

Yeah, low-frequency high-speed traffic in rural areas is probably more of a danger than slow-moving urban traffic. Plus they are more used to it. Even the three-legged one moves faster than most cars round our way, not that he can get to the road.

xpost

I accept that it depends on the cat/breed.

Before I lived here I lived in a house where the nearest main road was several hundred yards away, and there was lots of greenery, fences, little walks with houses on, etc etc, and our cats always roamed as free as they liked.

What about people that never let their cats inside? (Jaq's example excepted).

Monsters imo.

Or people who don't let dogs on the sofa. Slaughter these beats.

Also, what the hell is "declawing"? It sounds horrible.

The RSPCA say that a cat needs "A garden or safe place to play and exercise every day, away from busy roads."

And also that they need "To come and go as they please - a cat flap is ideal."

yeah ive seen where the rspca keeps their cats. i guess its technically outside.

I suppose the RSPCA wants to restrict cat ownership to those who own their own houses, but tbh our cats are happy enough chasing each other around our flat. Maybe they'd be bored if there weren't 2 of them, I dunno.

You can rent a flat with a garden, or you can put a catflap in a window upstairs, or just let the cat in and out of it. Our old neighbours did this. They had this big ginger that used to come down and bully our cats before they became friends. I went to the kitchen to get a drink of water at 3 am once, and the three of them were sat on the sofa, all staring at the switched-off telly. UNCANNY.

We do rent a flat with a garden, but I doubt I'd get my deposit back if I stuck a cat flap in the back door

when we moved house we didn't bother getting a new cat flap put in because the cat was genuinely too stupid to learn how to use it. (she's still bright enough to keep off the main road though)

put a catflap in a window upstairs

wheeeeeeee...

splat

If you did that in America the cat would be eaten by a coyote on the way down.

Nothing but the velour kitty jacket and matching pumps left.

There was a flat roof beneath the window ...

Also, cats are *known* for their climbing skill ...

Ragdolls aren't. Neither Cosmo or Bob has ever climbed anything more taxing than a chair.

Pretty much any normal home conditions are better for a rescued animal than a) wherever they were living before and b) being euthanized because no one adopts them. So all of you have that going for ya!

Yeah but have you seen Nick's gaff? Dude lives in squalor, unfit for man nor beast :)

My Cougar caught in Seattle being released in wild

"The animal likely preyed on house cats during its time in the park, Hebner said. Earlier, he noted the heavily forested park was a perfect urban retreat for the cougar because there's no competition for the territorial animal. There's also plenty of food in the form of rabbits and other small animals, along with neighborhood pets."

O_o

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/showbiz/images/attachement/jpg/site1/20090811/0023ae606f170beb093c04.jpg

I'm pretty comfortable with strangers on the internet thinking I'm a bad person for keeping my cats inside.

argghh, kitty is MIA again... the dog is out in the backyard, so he could be hiding out there but I do not know... I looked hard for him! I hope he did not hop the fence, I would be so upset. Ugh, and now I have to go to work & won't be home for 13 hours :\

Also, what the hell is "declawing"? It sounds horrible.

Declawing is exactly what it says on the tin. Removing a cats claws. Pretty grim stuff.

Thankfully it is illegal in the UK, and most of Europe.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A25953230

guyz i am really worried about my kitty :(

I am worried about you, worrying about your kitty! He might not like 13 hours in the backyard but assuming he can find his way back there, nothing will hurt him, either. He needs to get fed eventually, and he knows where the good life is. If he did hop the fence, could anything in the neighbor's yards on either side actually hurt him? Can you climb over them when you get home, if nec, to look for him? Does he come when called?

I hope he stays safe and dry until you can look for him again - does he come running at the sound of food rattling in the bowl?

I called for him for a while before coming to work this morning! And I looked around the house. He couldn't be hiding in the basement, since we have the door closed while Jack is dogsitting. I'm not sure what lives on the other side of the fence, and before I'd climb over myself I'd knock on the neighbors door and ask them if they'd seen him.

Jack is at home and has not seen him.

He usually comes runnning for food, but with the strange dog presence he might be more timid? He was not hiding under my bed or anywhere in the house that I saw.

Good luck with your cat, Ian!

If it's been there three weeks, it won't get lost, and I'm sure it can climb over the fence. Maybe get someone to take the dog for a walk, then call for him?

Try a high-pitched "heeeeere kittykittykittykittykitty!"

i won't be back to my apt until around 8:30 at the earliest, and 1am at the latest... bah. damned commmitments. I did do the high pitched calling, of course. "Ivy paaawwwwwwws. Iiiiiiivaaaannnnn!! Ivy, come here buddy!"

Try a high-pitched "heeeeere kittykittykittykittykitty!"

― kate78, Tuesday, September 8, 2009 2:03 PM (10 minutes ago)

^in all honesty, this works!

i was sad the last couple weeks of summer when my kitty wouldnt come home - we had just gotten a new puppy and kitty was NOT a big fan. think i saw her twice in the last ten days or so i was there :(

Awwww. Did she ever return to your 'rents place? The new dog is definitely what's freaking Ivan out.

"Ivy paws"!!!!!

yeah i mean she's an outdoor/indoor kitty and we won't see her for a couple days at a time sometimes, but she came home for a few hours the day before i left which was nice. my mom says she's been coming back more regularly now but still won't go near the new puppy; she's best bros with our other dog, so maybe itll just take a while

update: my roommate texted me to let me know Ivan turned up. <3

glad to hear it!

yay! i felt bad for being so glib about the outside-kitty life just before your cat went on an impromptu vision quest.

i am also feeling the yay!

alive?

tsk.

That's good news, ian, so glad to hear he turned up.

When I was a kid we lived in a really rural area and always let the cats (and dogs) roam where they wanted. The dogs (3 out of 3) always came back, and only one of the cats (3 out of 4) never did. Then we lived in a town and kept the dogs inside, but the cats were still free to roam. 2 for 2 there, too.

Seems like a really simple decision: if you're comfortable letting them out on their own, do it. Otherwise, don't.

yo my neighbor aint playin with a full deck and she comes out on the front stoop shakin the bag o' cat treats yellin, "meow-meows! yum-yums!" for like fifteen minutes tryin to find her feline. never seen the thing show up, but have seen this ritual a couple of times while walkin the pooch.

Does she even have a cat? :/

i read that as just "bag o' cats" at first.

was v. worried for a sec.

Ivan has disappeared again :(

You not able to keep him indoors while yr at work Ian? :/ They say when you move house you should keep yr cat inside a little while so it gets used to where it is... though I guess that dog isnt helping.

Well, he's never really been a problem.. if he comes home I'll definitely try to keep him in while i'm not around. I just back back to my apartment after work & radio show, and I have been unable to locate him. Bah, stressed out.

;_; WHARE IS KITTEY

oh no, Ivan and ian :(

Cat still missing :(
my roommate claims he was around yesterday afternoon, but I couldn't find him either in the morning or the evening, and I can't find him now. I am so upset!

I really feel for you. This is what happened when my cat Rascal got hit by the train. I guess go knocking on doors and asking if people have seen him.

It should be reassuring that your roommate saw him yesterday, though. It sounds like he just doesn't like the dog. Or maybe someone else is feeding him!

Did Ivan turn up yet?!

yeah he did. was on another thread.

:)

:-D

for reference EMO BLOG ENTRY

btw he turned up, then i locked him in my room & went out for a few hours, and when i got back he had knocked out the screen blockign the window & was back in the neighbors yard. wtf. but he came back immediately & then i kept him in my room all night with me. only time will tell where he is when i get home from work tonight...

well he won't be going too far without his passport.

not a big cat person myself - but this thread has sort of illustrated why indoor cats seem like way less of a hassle.

it's generally best to manacle them to the bedpost, just in case

When I lived in rural Montana and Minnesota we let our cats outside and 1 got run over, another we found dead in the woods (guessing wild animal attack), and another came home ripped to shreds, after which he developed a nasty infection.

As I live in the city, I would not let my cats out for long periods because they would surely: 1. get in fights, 2. pick up fleas, 3. maybe pick up bed bugs (don't know if that's true, but if they are traipsing around discarded bed-buggy furniture, then surely they could become carriers), 4. get run over.

I do let them out on my porch (3rd floor) while I'm out there, and they have fun skulking around and acting weird for a while, then they go back inside and lay on the couch.

For the cats' own safety and comfort, it's probably a good thing to keep them inside from birth, but if they were outdoors cats and then you try to make them indoors, that might suck for them.

Leroy used to hang out by me when I'd get ready in the morning, but then I started letting him go outside occasionally(just briefly, and with me there watching) and so now he's downstairs peeping out the patio door before I even wake up. I do wish there was a way they could safely explore a little outside, but it's just not possible given where I live and their histories. Pretty funny shit watching them eye birds while they're inside, them making bizarre noises and wanting so badly to find a way to have a go at the birds. And then what does Lamar do when he actually is outside with some birds just chilling on the fence 10 feet away? Backs away and hides, of course.

! I love the strange noises they make while watching birds.

Yeah whats with that chattering noise they do with the teeth bared? Well, Ive seen a couple cats do anyway.

it's a kitty roar!

Hahah :) My cat is so timid, she doesnt even meow, she just does this weird squeak, unless she's hungry - then she yaps at me.

If I make that 'ack-ack-ack' cat-excitement sound in my throat, my cats will run to the window to see what's up!

^^^ booming post.

my cat thinks hiding in the neighbors yard is a game now. totally likes sitting on the other side of the fence, watching me, maybe he will meow occasionally. it's raining and he refuses to come in! at least i know where he is i guess.

When Bob's hungry he'll come right up to you, fix your gaze, and smack his lips at you in a chewing motion. We call it "chewy face". "Emma, Bob's doing chewy face, when did he last get fed?!"

It's distracting when you're having sex.

Pretty funny shit watching them eye birds while they're inside, them making bizarre noises and wanting so badly to find a way to have a go at the birds.

Missy tried to pounce on a wren the other day but forgot there was a windowpane in the way. I pretended that I hadn't seen her in order to preserve her dignity.

or listening to BEATLES REMASTERS xp

oh hahahaha

Cosmo & Bob both get a bit excited when we have intruders (insects) come in the house. Flies are good for demented pouncing at windows fun, but really it's the tiny bugs that hang around on the ceiling by the lamp that are best; Cosmo sits on the table in an ostensibly relaxed position, but his head'll be at an odd angle, and he'll just whimper at them as if he's begging them to come down.

When Bob's hungry he'll come right up to you, fix your gaze, and smack his lips at you in a chewing motion. We call it "chewy face".

Childhood cat would do "chewy face" when about to throw up. It provided a convenient warning to open the door and eject her into the garden.

I guess you can't do that with an indoor kitty, and kitty dignity probably precludes staying in bathtubs, so... what then?

Slide a magazine in front of them.

Always make sure you have some junk mail lying around you can shove on the floor in front of the cat. Our cat Madeira (adopted cat, we didn't choose the name, and which I'm going to defintely start calling 'Maddy Paws' now) makes a rhythmic retching sound before being sick to aid us in the endevour.

Doh! x-post

This is one definite bonus with having wooden floors

http://warmingglow.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/cat-puke-plate-600x316.jpg

http://www.marriedtothesea.com/011207/puke-plates.gif

well shoot.

My big black girl cat is obsessed with licking plants. Fortunately she never chews them. In my old apartment she would lick the frost off the windows.

My childhood cat would always move away or turn his head from the magazine/newspaper at the very last second!

Are all cats ecstatic closed-eyed obsessive plastic lickers, or is it just our two?

We have one obsessive licker. The other one not so much. But our girl cat licks everything. And especially plastic bags.

my cat chews on record sleeves occasionally, and several of our cats growing up were bag lickers--one especially, Brynner, would always get her head stuck in the bag and run around like a maniac until someone caught her & removed it.

yeah there's some chemical in plastic used in bags that cats go nutty for.

my cat chews fabric. so, I can't leave my shoes out or he'll chew the laces off. and all of my bathroom towels have bite marks. :-/

Francie is a book licker.

We have an awful cat problem. One of our two cats behaves flawlessly, but one has become a shit terrorist. All of a sudden, Gibson will just take a shit on the carpet, once a day, without fail, in one special spot. We tried cayenne in the carpet, baking powder, and nothing deters this cat. He just wants to crap on this part of the carpet and we can't figure out what to do to deter him from doing this nasty, naughty thing. Any freelance cat therapists (i won't say "pussy whisperers") out there that want to weigh in with some much needed behavior-modification advice?

yeah there's some chemical in plastic used in bags that cats go nutty for. - ah, this may explain why one of my cats insists on eating small strips of plastic (candy wrappers, cellophane tear-offs from cig packs etc.). He will ingest them, puke them back up, eat them again, repeat.. I'd thought that he might just be slightly retarded, but maybe it is a chemical thing?

neotropygsqu - Did your other cat happen to attack Gibson when he was shitting appropriately in the cat box? People recommend have one more cat box than you do cats (which we've never been able to do, because where would we put them?) when things like this are happening. I know Morrie had a problem like this due to Drac attacking him just as he would get all hunkered down and focused.

we have two cats, and three litter boxes, so we're not sure what the story is. I've heard that if a cat ever had a GI infection of any kind and it hurt them to crap/pee, they might associate the pain with the place where they tried to do their business. But as far as we know our cat is healthy so it's kind of a mystery. A very unpleasant mystery.

Standard advice when a cat changes litterbox habits like that usually goes: 1) take the cat to the vet to make sure there is nothing physically wrong, even if you think the cat is healthy, since something may have developed since the last vet visit; and 2) make sure that the litter box is very clean, as in clean it ASAP after use. You can also buy some enzymatic carpet cleaner designed to destroy the secret smells of poop 'n pee to which cats become attracted.

Yes, and if Gibson is still peeing in the box, it makes you wonder. Can you set one of the litter boxes right where he is using the carpet temporarily? Put one of those puppy training pads under it to catch any nastiness. (xpost - Jenny's advice is probably better)

So I am going out of town this week, and I'm a bit nervous about leaving my cat alone. I have roommates of course who would be able to feed him & water him etc, but as far as the cat's EMOTIONS.... what if he runs away cuz he feels abandoned? He's got a history of disappearing for 24 hours or more (see above) and I'm a bit worried that if I'm not there to keep an eye on him he'll just disappear and be gone when i get back. I had asked a co-worker to take him in while I'm gone, but she said her roommate got really bummed out at the idea, which kinda sucks imo. What is a man to do?

the issue of course is that he goes out into the backyard frequently, sometimes only returning when I yell for him & shake his food bowl. and the backdoor is almost always open for breeze & light (my apt is like living in a submarine.)

He won't give a shit.

her roommate got really bummed out at the idea

wtf?

my cat is very very needy, niles!

trayce: i guess he's allergic or some shit :\

waaaahhh, my co-worker flaked on looking after my cat, so i guess i have to just trust that he will be okay without me for five(!!) nights. i do worry a lot though. i am a worrier.

my best friend's non-indoor cat went missing last week and was presumed dead

but then today it turned out he had been taken in by some family he had followed, and the family had then seen the posters my best friend put up

lost cat posters have NEVER worked before iirc

hurrah!

I guess my feelings on the whole outdoor/indoor controversy are that in an ideal world, all cats would have a safe, stimulating outdoor area that they could explore when they felt like it. My grandparents have always let their cats go outside. They have a big yard and an acre of trees behind the house, but they also live on a very busy street. They've lost a few cats to the street, but they've had their current cat for about 15 years and she's never been hit (although her brother was killed by a car there). I can see how much she enjoys going outside, and given her record of avoiding the street, I'm sure it's for the best to let her out. However, I also think that cats are capable of leading perfectly content and happy lives indoors - provided that their owners play with them and give them toys, attention and stimulation. Where I live, letting a cat outside is just not an option. So I disagree with the idea that it's better not to have a cat at all if you can't let them outside. I think it's perfectly acceptable to sacrifice some variety and stimulation for the benefit of the cat's safety, health and longevity.

yeah im not letting my cat roam around bed-stuy, sorry

when i thought my cat ran away i put up posters.
even tho he turned up in the neighbors yard the next day i still get phone calls from ppl thinking they've seen him. lotsa pretty tuxedo cats roamin williamsburg apparently.

I guess no one has linked to this NY Times article, which sheds a different light on the issue, highlighting the damage that outdoor cats do to the local bird population:

"Give Birds a Break. Lock Up the Cat."
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/29/science/29angi.html

I like when people put bells on outdoor cats, mainly because it annoys them.

There are some great outdoor cats near where I live. One chap has worked out how to use pedestrian crossings to safely traverse junctions.

My sister's friend's cat went missing two years ago and she put up a poster; someone phoned up and said "Hi, I've seen your cat - it was under the wheels of a fucking truck hahahahaha"

the cat came home, two years later

^^^poster delivers

My husband has named all the hobo/outdoor cats he sees on the way to work: Witch Hazel, Tux Shortbus, Corned Beef Hash, Taft, Doc Morsel, Oscar Snagtooth, and Edwyn Collins.

i'm guessing Taft is a rather large kitty?

Your husband is good at granting names!

^^^

would hang with Corned Beef Hash and Tux Shortbus.

We give names to our outdoor pals too: Oil Can Harry, Congo Jack, Dr. Seuss, One Ear, etc.

So I disagree with the idea that it's better not to have a cat at all if you can't let them outside. I think it's perfectly acceptable to sacrifice some variety and stimulation for the benefit of the cat's safety, health and longevity.

my 2 cats, restricted to the indoors, wanting badly to roam around outdoors, but well-fed and loved, annual checkups with the vet etc vs 2 cats not adopted from the shelter, kept in a cage 23 hours per day, fates uncertain. hmm.

Wd totally rock with a cat called Tux Shortbus <3

indoor kitty's got such a supple wrist

Had two cats that I felt this way. After seeing them get outside and romp through the yard and roll around and chase squirrels and stuff I couldn't stand to keep them inside, and they both died of car injuries within less than a year of their lives.

Just got a third one, probably going to make him be an indoor cat because I don't want a repeat. Losing a cat really sucks.

I give my cat supervised backyard plays when its a nice day and I've free time to keep an eye on her (so she doesnt try and get under the house where she may get stuck). She loves rolling in the dirt and lying in the garden in the sun. But this is why I *dont* like doing this too often - outside + possums around = cat gets fleas. Ugh.

Would totally hang out with Edwyn Collins cat.

Adopted an FIV-positive cat a few months ago for this reason - they're not supposed to be either outside or with other cats, which is perfect since our apartment is on the 2nd floor, no balcony/patio, and no other cats. He builds up a lot of energy and gets crazy if we don't play with him everyday, though, but I don't mind.

How infectious is FIV? do they have to shag each other to get it, or do they get it from just looking at each other?

It's primarily transmitted by cat fights, IIRC.

Yeah, it's pretty infectious.

It's less infectious that FELV, but you can't vaccinate against it. FELV can be transmitted by grooming, sharing litter trays, water dishes, food bowls, etc. FIV is transmitted primarily by shagging or fighting (although if you have cats with open oral wounds such as tooth problems, it can be transmitted through grooming, sharing bowls, etc.)

^ she's got it. They can live 5-10 years with it, and seeing as he's 5 yrs old and probably got infected pretty recently (he's a huge, loving, and social cat, I feel terrible he was ever on the street and needed facial reconstruction after being kind of mauled by another stray), I figure he can live a pretty normal life with us. We named him Magic Johnson in honor of a hopefully long and healthy life. Is that messed up or just optimistic?

http://cn1.kaboodle.com/hi/img/2/0/0/d5/e/AAAAAtOhzIUAAAAAANXuAg.jpg

Our cat (and my girlfriend) are awesome enough to pull one of these harnesses off, but there's a really meek guy in my apartment complex who uses one with his cat who DEFINITELY doesn't enjoy it. I've tried saying hi after saying "That thing is COOL!" to him in a friendly way, but he just kind of ducked and passed me without saying anything. He seemed embarassed to be seen with it, but he still goes out most afternoons and walks his cat. I think someone's making him do it. Either way, it's discouraging me from even trying it.

My sister bought her FIV cat one of those harnesses but whenever she put it on, the cat would sit down and not move. She tried dragging it around the garden (literally) a couple of times before giving up.

We had a kitten once that we decided to harness train. She did a pretty good job until she died 6 months later. Guess she didn't like it after all.

Fuck. Just woke up and was snuggling on the couch with my cat, drinking tea and being cozy in general when I heard a cat howling outside the window who obviously wanted in. Weather.com says that it feels like 34℉ right now, so that poor cat must be suffering. I wanted to bring it in, but can't because who knows about its health and how it will interact with our other animals? Hope it finds a place to get warm. Fuck.

My little guy ran away yesterday. Apparently pushed the screen out of a window that we had opened to get a cross-breeze going. I didn't notice he was missing for 4 hours and when I did, I couldn't go canvas the neighborhood for him because it was dark out and I was home by myself watching the kids. Then about half an hour after I noticed he was missing, the biggest thunderstorm I've heard in years rolled through, so even if he was somewhere in the neighborhood, there's a good chance that he panicked an bolted somewhere even further away. Stupid, stupid cat.

He was just starting to bond with my baby girl too; she pets him and they nap together sometimes. I hope like hell that he's alright.

:'(

hope he turns up — does he have a tag/collar/chip? anything?

I feel like andy has been right about everything he has ever posted.

fuck now I just got overwhelmed by a rush of memories from the time my ex's cat (outdoor) went missing for several days

and how worried sick we were about her
thinking maybe she got in a fight, or was hit by a car
sitting up all night and calling her name out into the darkness

and the moment when she finally found her way back home and mewed outside the window
and kristen ran outside and picked her up and wept tears of joy while petting and kissing her all over
and I miss them both :(

Two of my friends went away over Christmas and left the cat with a friend to mind. But after only a couple of days, the cat did a runner. When my friends came back from holidays, they put up posters, but to no avail. They thought they would never see the cat again. Then one day, six weeks, after the disappearence, they heard a mewing at the window and it was the cat. He had travelled about two miles and crossed a river to get back to them, and was right as rain apart from having lost weight and being a bit afraid of the outside.

I hope your cat comes back kkvgz.

kkvgz, I bet when the storm started, the cat burrowed down somewhere warm and dry ASAP rather than running away. Their instincts are to run under something and stay there.

Yeah, my experiences with cats running away have all had happy endings so far. But he is declawed (the condition we got him from the shelter in) and there are a lot of neighborhood cats of indeterminate ownership who aren't. I'm optimistic, but still upset.

Thanks for the kind wishes, all.

Really hope he returns very soon kkvgz, fingers crossed.

i bet your cat will show up, every time mine ran off they wound up being under the building, or in a shed adjacent.

andy was really not right about this issue, like at all.

hope your cat comes back quickly. :(

wait, why did i think this was a new thread? sorry, long day.

my fuckking cats are the worst jesus

they both decided to sleep on my head from about 3am to whenever I had to finally wake up for some reason

I live in the middle of a city with tonnnns of stray cats around there is no way in hell I'm letting these idiotic cats go outside

Let a cat go outside and they just get up to honky-tonkin' and we all know no good comes of that.

Our three indoor cats are fascinated by/want to destroy the neighborhood outdoor cats who chill on the deck while our dudes try to claw their way through the sliding glass doors. This is now a well-established part of everyone's daily routine.

I had a lot of "outdoor only" cats as a kid and they all met horrible outdoor ends.

Aw this thread makes me miss mah kitty, RIP Yampy you stinkbag.

i really really want a cat, but we have leather furniture. and my reaction was, "okay, we'll just have him declawed", then I found out exactly what declawing meant, and yikes. I don't know if I can do that in good conscience. but man, this furniture (which came with the house) is really nice. maybe we just shouldn't get one? do the claw covers work at all?

If you're more worried about your furniture than your cat, please don't get a cat.

Yeah that's kind of where I've been leaning, sadly. the furniture just kinda got tossed in with the house but I looked up the price and it's well over $3k, easily the nicest stuff we own. I mean every cat my Mom had was declawed, ditto with all my friends, thought it was kinda normal, I had no idea it was just a cruel thing to do. But if he starts tearing up the leather then it can't really be fixed can it? I'm sure you can train it, but in the meantime..?

there are SO many jackasses in my neighborhood in Brooklyn who let their cats out...every day there's another poster about a lost cat. once i actually found one and the lady came to get it and said she lets it out all the time...i told her if she cared at all about it she'd leave it inside. she wasn't pleased but i'm glad someone told her.

The only way to get a cat to not claw furniture is to offer it a place (or more likely many places) where it prefers to claw instead of the furniture.

I have never successfully done this.

my plan would be to get the claw covers and to use a spray bottle on him if he starts trying out the furniture and maybe offer some reward when he goes to the scratching post. and just hope he figures it out. I dunno. I'm afraid that he only has to try the couch once before it leaves some permanent damage.

My cat is indoor, but I let him hang out outside if I'm also outside. Because he's a white cat I was told that he is a risk for skin cancer and other issues, so I try to limit his sun exposure. Also there are a lot of tough feral cats and a million guard dogs in my neighborhood. Not worth the risk.

Spray bottle training doesn't work ime. The cat will learn to be scared of you but won't deduce that it's happening because he's scratching the furniture.

Spray bottle may get them off of it initially, but they will keep going back and back and back. And you won't be there to spray all the time.

so what you're saying is...either deform the cat or accept that the leather is getting ruined, sounds like maybe no cat is best

You never know how the cat will respond to the environment, behaviorally speaking. If you provide scratching posts and etc. that might be enough, and there's always the possibility that the cat won't be a big scratcher, especially if you get a more mature cat. I suggest getting a foster cat and see how it goes.

I'm sure you can train it

It's a cat, you can't really. Some cats will learn that their human doesn't like this behaviour, some cats won't, some cats will learn but not care. Declawing is illegal here, and rightly so.

Not going to weigh in on the indoor/outdoor thing again, I've stated my position in other threads. Basically, be as good as you can be to your cats.

so my other question, do those claw covers work?

Our cats don't claw our leather couch to sharpen, but they do scratch it just by jumping on it. Animals be animals, they scratch, they puke, they break stuff.

do those claw covers work?

Not in my experience, but I also wasn't diligent with the nail-trimming every other day routine either.

the possibility that the cat won't be a big scratcher, especially if you get a more mature cat

I just got a 9 year old, and I caught her scratching the arm of a chair once, told her no, and she hasn't done it since. I realize some cats scratch and some don't, but older cats seem far less interested in doing it.

cats hate citrus smells so maybe mix some grapefruit oil and water in a spray bottle and mist the corners of the couch? those catnip scratchers are also really great.

Aluminum foil also works, I've heard.

my parents' cat, who they got at age 12 or so, occasionally scratches specific bits of furniture -- usually one armchair that had already been scratched up by a past cat, sometimes the carpet. I sometimes wonder whether it'd be worth getting her a scratching post to use instead but she seems a little too old for new habits.

leather doesn't seem like it'd be very satisfying to scratch tbh.

frogbs you should get this cat:

http://25.media.tumblr.com/1de0f67a621b9127e7c1c7065722a0e7/tumblr_mke0j4tPB61qfhg93o1_250.gif

Aluminum foil is hi-LAR-ious. My roomie's cats would jump on the sheets of foil I'd put on the couch and do something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pv8ARvJzCYU

fwiw we have 3 cats and leather sofas and they do not scratch them at all. Just doesn't seem to be good scratching material for them. They scratch the hell out of other stuff tho. Our bed is one of those solid base ones with some kind of fabric all around the bottom and that has been shredded.

We taught Cosmo and Bob to use a scratching post when they were kittens; every time it looked as if they wanted to scratch we picked them up and carried them to the scratching pillar, and rubbed their front paws on it. They learn pretty soon, and are really good now, so our furniture is pretty fine. Not unscathed - there are some pulls on the sofa and chair but they're accidents resulting from sketching out and flexing paws.

Sometimes Bob shouts at you until you pick him up and stroke him. This isn't normal, is it?

what is that cat in the gif, he's amazing

my parents bought my girlfriend and I a large leather-lined mirror as a housewarming gift and within 10 minutes of unpacking it our cat had climbed on top of it and started ripping the top apart. I cannot deny a cat an experience that awesome.

Max spent his first six months outside under a house, and now he lives inside with me. My face got a scar the day we drove him home from my friends driveway. My carpet got destroyed when he wanted in my room when I was sleeping. The couch will be replaced or re-something-holstered. He got a bladder infection, and the carpet by the litter closet is now tile.

We got him a kitten (Kali) early on, and she tamed him in a way we never could have. Teased him and bathed him and put him in his place.

I'll never regret the damage or the expense because we missed Chloe and Milo so much after all those years of faithful service.

Max and Kali will be allowed outdoors eventually, starting with supervised time on the patio, followed by supervised strolls and lay-downs in the courtyard (just like Milo and Chloe). As soon as they and I aren't too scared of sudden startles.

Lots of folks let their indoor cars roam freely on my residential block
I approve in that I get one frequent visitor to our backyard who is friendly and let's my kids pet him

If I fell into $3K worth of fancy furniture I'd immediately craigslist it for $1K worth of shitty furniture and a cat.

^^^^

wish I could get my wife onboard with that!

Oh word. I'm sorry frogs.

what is that cat in the gif, he's amazing

Colonel Meow

cats hate citrus smells so maybe mix some grapefruit oil and water in a spray bottle and mist the corners of the couch? those catnip scratchers are also really great.

― clouds, Wednesday, October 9, 2013 2:24 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Aluminum foil also works, I've heard.

― Johnny Fever, Wednesday, October 9, 2013 2:25 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

The citrus defense is what I was going to recommend.
My ex roomie heard aluminum foil works, too, but my cat was only put off for a couple days then tore through that shit. Added bonus fun of explaining why you have foil in random places of your home to guests.

you can buy tape that you put on your furniture ('sticky paws' or something) and that keeps em at bay while you keep this weird tape on your couch, but in my experience, they just start scratching it again when you take it off. I've given up tbh.

thred revive tl;dr but try poking around your local ASPCA/Shelter for cats that have been declawed by a previous owner -- downside it is not a kitted, it has already been declawed (eg mutilated). upside -- giving what is surely an older cat a second life/good home.

When I went to get my cat I knew I wanted an older cat bc birth-death cat ownership was something I didn't think I was ready for and potentially getting one that had been declawed would have been a bonus.

Outcome: older non-declawed cat that is not a "clawer" so to speak. She gets off on cardboard scratching posts. ymmv

not a kitted = not a kitten

Kittens are overrated. Older cats are rad.

Years of experience have inured me to the inevitablity of feline domestic destruction but also taught me that the most liberal sprinkling of cat scratch devices lessens the impact somewhat. Once cats become used to scratching somewhere, they'll continue so new furniture needs to be policed pretty strictly for awhile after it's bought.

also dose said scratching devises w catnip often @ first, or as often as you like, depending on how funny the outcome is

Kittens are overrated. Older cats are rad.

― Johnny Fever, Thursday, October 10, 2013 6:02 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Kittens are not overrated, Albert will have you know.

On the other hand, older cats are totally rad AS WELL.

thred revive tl;dr but try poking around your local ASPCA/Shelter for cats that have been declawed by a previous owner -- downside it is not a kitted, it has already been declawed (eg mutilated). upside -- giving what is surely an older cat a second life/good home.

This is a good point. Our cat is declawed, but he was that way when we adopted him. It was not a factor in our adoption (he was at the end of his stay at the shelter).

in london everybody lets their cats out. do brooklyn cats just get lost more easily or what?

little buggy wumpums is basically a glorified baby

also there is a lot of shit on the street and a lot of places to hide? like, if I was a cat I would totally leave for days at a time and kill rats n shit

Re leather furniture, even if they don't enjoy scratching it on purpose, they'll poke holes in it every time they jump up on an arm or the back of the couch and use their claws to hold on. It's doomed. My parents' cats did srs damage to the only leather armchair we ever owned.

yep I was thinking the same, I may just get one that's declawed already

pets ruin everything

It's been just under a month, but my cat has been trouble free (except for barfing on the rug in my bedroom once). But who's to say I would never have barfed there myself had I not gotten a cat?

"I want a mutilated cat but I don't want to mutilate it myself" is sort of a weird way of approaching it imo

I agree that it's a weird approach. But cats are out there, at shelters. Gonna die. Thousands every day. It is likely that frogs can find one that is already declawed.

maybe you disagree but I think living in a house declawed is probably better than having your claws but being at a shelter where you may remain unwanted until you die. I agree it's kind of a weird rationalization but those are the parameters I'm working with!

Fair enough!

y that's basically my point xp

We got two 7-ish month old cats a few months ago, we had to keep them in for a long time as one of them was too poorly to be neutered. We live in a house with large windows on to a front and back garden, we were in and out all the time during the summer, it was a pain to keep shutting the doors and the cats were desperate to get out and spent most of their time staring out of the window. When they finally got outside they were much happier, the poorly one in particular perked up and started walking round with her tail in the air which she'd never done before. Then yesterday, barely two months after we'd let them out, we found out one of them had been hit and killed by a car. In short, my answer to the contentious issue of indoor or outdoor cats is, neither. Just don't have cats.

:( I’m sorry to hear, I’ve been there and it’s the worst

Aw man, that’s horrible. I’m sorry that had to happen to you.

Aw, sorry to hear that ledge. That's awful.

We desperately try to keep our very indoor (she'd make a terrible outdoor one) cat stay that way, but this is one of the two times of year (like April) where she just makes it damn near impossible, daring out of nowhere whenever a door is opened and absolutely HOWLING at the door when she's blocked.

So sorry to hear that. One of our old cats was the type to wait by the door to try to dash out. He escaped on multiple occasions and sometimes came back injured.

Of our current 3, we have one who occasionally takes advantage of a carelessly opened window, etc. to go on overnight adventures. She has always returned within 24 hours, but it's still scary.

One of the others never tries to go out on her own, but will sit patiently meowing by the door. She has responded pretty well to a harness, so now she gets occasional walks around the yard.

https://i.imgur.com/IWsKC70.jpg

I'd like to create some sort of catio, so the cats can all get some fresh air and come and go as they please.

Aw cuet!

Thanks all. I thought our girls - 4 & 7 - would be absolutely distraught and there were plenty of tears of course but they've both bounced back pretty well. When I suggested an early bedtime yesterday because of it the older one said "I've forgotten about it already, stop reminding me!"

hearing thread title to the tune of "New York Minute"

My big fat mouser caught a (not very big fat) mouse yesterday! Not his first, but this one I managed to wrangle off him before he tried killing and eating it. Not just bcs I dont want mouseguts all over the carpet but also bcs I have no idea if my neighbours use Ratsak.

He made the most impressive doglike growling sounds at it and was very miffed when I caught the mouse and put it outside (seemingly still quite alive).

If by "put it outside," you mean anywhere within 2 miles of your home, they are apparently quite adept at finding their way back.

[

pets ruin everything

True enough. So do kids.

I've had both indoor and outdoor cats. In my experience, going back to childhood, outdoor cats usually have shorter life expectancies. They are exposed to all sorts of hazards--predators, disease, parasites, traffic--that indoor cats generally avoid. Our two indoor kitties right now are quite happy. Or, they would be, if the new Black Lab were to meet with an unfortunate accident.

I dunno, most of us typically don't let our dogs roam the neighborhood, do we? It seems to me that this used to be a thing but isn't any more, at least not in the U.S.

Yeah my kitties don’t like it when I rescue rats from them, the doglike growl is too cute coming from them though.

I once got there too late when I was younger and living ant home. I got to watch the family cat devour literally the whole rat, head, bones and all. Never looked at him the same….

The outdoor one we used to have (before FIV claimed him) used to leave half-devoured ones on the doorstep.

When I was a kid, we had one bring a bat into the house one time. That was quite a scene.

Counterpoint: Pets are the best part of life. My life would be so much poorer without the joy my kitties and dog bring. Also what else would I have to talk about at the dinner table?

My fave part is coming up with all the dumb names. We have Laszlo (his Official name), Laz, Lazopolous, Lazbian, Lazamatazz, Razzlo, Fattyboombah, Chonkers, Big'n'Fat, and Fuckface.

LOL

My mother in law named her Black Lab (who now lives with us) "Lorenzo." I have rechristened him "Larry."

We lived in the country. Our cat Girlie Girlie was gifted to us by my older sister from the Guru Ram Dass Ashram in Buffalo and had only been fed brewer's yeast for her entire life. She came to us with a big jar of brewer's yeast and was so skinny. We were very skeptical of that and eventually fed her meat, which almost drove her crazy - it was like a lightning bolt for her. We let her outside and she became a predator, killing birds and mice and bringing them to our doorstep

Otm: Peach, Peachie, Pooch, Peachypeachypoopypie, Floof, The Floofer, Mrs. Land-shark, /Butch, Butchie, Butchinator9000 (what he most commonly goes by), Mr. Chunks (he’s been on a diet lately so this name has sadly gone out of fashion)

We let Tuffy out in the backyard on a leash; his collar is loose enough for him to escape from it if he gets caught. Even on those rare occasions when he has gotten loose, he knows where he is and always returns to the back door. I don't think he'd even make a concerted effort to leave the yard, unless he was caught up in a chase.
He's not very good at catching things but I do have to credit him for making me vegan.

He's not very good at catching things

Usually only cicadas.

When I was a kid, I had an outdoor cat that survived all kinds of disasters: a near drowning in the pond, being run over by a car, being bitten by a dog (and getting a huge, foul-smelling abscess in his leg). We moved to a slightly more rural area and he vanished. The vet speculated he got carried off by an owl.

The Butchinator lives either on our bed, or on top of the beer fridge in the backyard. He is the keeper of booze in the house, one has to give him a little boop on the nose every time they get a drink. Privileged to have a kitty who can live outside yet doesn’t leave the house boundary (unlike another cat we have who we’re still trying to change the habits of; an impossible battle)

I’m sorry jimbeaux, I laughed at that last sentence and I know I shouldn’t have.

That family cat who ate the rat was the same. I think he outlasted something like 5 other cats that came and left the family in his life time (he’s still around). Got run over, constantly came home with scratches on his face from street kitty fights. He was the nicest house cat in the world during the day, but lord knows what he got up to at night

I laughed too. I was pretty bummed at the time. I mean, he wasn't anyone's idea of a lap cat, but he'd been with us for so long and had survived so much it seemed like he'd live forever. It didn't seem right for him to end like that. I hope he gave the owl a hard go of it, anyway.

My fave part is coming up with all the dumb names. We have Laszlo (his Official name), Laz, Lazopolous, Lazbian, Lazamatazz, Razzlo, Fattyboombah, Chonkers, Big'n'Fat, and Fuckface.

I would never belittle Baxter’s dignity by expecting him to tolerate “Biggidy Baxter” or “the ol’ Baxterino.” I simply pay him the respect of a peer by saying “g’day cunt” when he enters a room inquisitively.

For all we know, he could have won that fight and now sits enthroned as the conquering overlord of the native owl society

I think that was the first time I ever thought of owls as anything but wise.

My wife highlighted to me the other night that the only being on this earth that I have ever called a bastard is Butch, who is referred to as such literally everyday as he sneakily flings a claw up at my toe hanging on the edge of the bed, or bites my finger at 3am, or knocks all my books of my bedside table at 4am, or meows at the door at 6am, or vomits on the floor at 7am.

It cannot be overstated; Butch really is a bastard

jimbeaux's cat:

https://i.imgur.com/Qms7YD0.gif

Give it another 50 years, and cats and owls will evolve into a symbiotic relationship where the owls pick up the cats in their talons and do regular air raids on smaller bird societies, splitting the spoil in two. You’re cat could have been the start of a new zoological revolution.

Lol Trayce

(I'm sorry if that was insensitve, I didnt mean it to be!)