Your next 2020 Democratic presidential primary thread: Now we're serious

that's the spirit

(tbc it's the Sanders crew's job to show that this is the case. I just don't see it happening.)

somewhat of a tangent, but the "give _____ supporters time to make their decision!" discourse is starting to bother me. it's not that I don't understand and sympathize with their point, but unfortunately there is another primary on tuesday, so one way or another, a decision is going to be made in the next couple of days, which is not much time

It will be the left's fault - Bernie hits him on trade and jobs in the primaries, he's "poisoning the well in the general!!!!" 2016 redux.

I like how you Bernie guys can swerve from "you don't support Bernie because you aren't actually suffering/have less to lose" to telling people who are clearly suffering/have a lot to lose that they are stupid for not supporting Bernie.

Really great coalition building

xps

that... was not really my point?

No coalitions are being built via ILX.

sorry wasn't talking to you Katherine, was more addressed to Simon, milo et al

xps

This is a free space to say "people who are clearly suffering/have a lot to lose" and vote for Biden are voting against their interests, because they are.

They're also voting against a lot of others peoples' interests.

And in my dad's mind if you're not a Democrat you're not standing in solidarity with the team that's trying to fight the fascists. You're doing some quixotic thing over here instead.

This is what I keep trying to get across when I harp on presidential politics being about building the broadest coalition. You can't afford to be exclusionary and still win. So the strategy remains to get Bernie the nomination, but somehow or other the message has to be focused on identifying what you are for and why you're against the other side.

Putting half the Democratic Party on "the other side" is recipe for disaster and the bros need to get a hell of a lot smarter about that. It should be enough to know that if their guy ever sits in the big chair, he will be setting the goals and calling the shots. That's the spoils that go to the victor. The bros can see how good victory would taste, but they seem too damn clueless about the process required to win it.

This is a free space to say "people who are clearly suffering/have a lot to lose" and vote for Biden are voting against their interests, because they are.

historically black people love being told by white guys that they don't know what's best for them, definitely a good angle to take

Half the Democratic Party has been constantly put on the other side and told to Vote Blue No Matter Who Or Else for 40+ years and that gambit never works.

Did your half ever win the nomination before?

Never works for what?

This is a free space to say "people who are clearly suffering/have a lot to lose" and vote for Biden are voting against their interests, because they are.

What do you mean by "free space"? Is someone telling you can't say that or have people been saying "I don't think saying that is a good idea", ie taking in your input and responding to it? Are you looking for people to respond or people to agree?

I like how you Bernie guys can swerve from "you don't support Bernie because you aren't actually suffering/have less to lose"

...an argument I've never made, cool.

I totally get *why* people back Biden, I just think they're wrong to think he's the safer pair of hands.

historically black people love being told by white guys that they don't know what's best for them, definitely a good angle to take

see above: there are no coalitions being built on ILX. Joe Biden's record on matters that affect black Americans is atrocious. How and why people vote is not in my control, but it's actual fact that he's one of the architects of the drug war and mass incarceration, courting segregationists for his ends, the list is pretty long.

This is a free space to say "people who are clearly suffering/have a lot to lose" and vote for Biden are voting against their interests, because they are.

historically black people love being told by white guys that they don't know what's best for them, definitely a good angle to take

― Οὖτις, Friday, March 6, 2020 9:59 AM (four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

is this super infuriating to anyone else? white man shakey representing the African American community in the most cynical way possible constantly in these threads

And that's a case that clearly has not been adequately made. self-xxp

Lads any chance you’d be as quick to jump on the people itt handwaving the Obama administration’s millions of deportations or are you just running on spite now?

At this point I feel like this thread should just be a game where I bait Bernouts into listing the sins of Democratic politicians going back further and further until we’re in Reconstruction

Joe Biden sucks ass and is a terrible person and politician. and that added to that he is now a fucking mess and can't string a sentence together? is actually less eloquent than trump at this stage? Jesus Christ.

What do you mean by "free space"?

That "good job building a coalition" means nothing here. 90% of the people ITT have already voted or can't vote, none were going to be swayed anyway, and there aren't enough to matter regardless.

you're all infuriating and you should log off

xxp there’s a lot of cool stuff itt being ignored in favour of bad faith shit like the above, but you know, civility

Joe Biden's record on matters that affect black Americans is atrocious. How and why people vote is not in my control, but it's actual fact that he's one of the architects of the drug war and mass incarceration, courting segregationists for his ends, the list is pretty long.

Oh, I'm sure African-Americans never pay any attention to that sort of stuff. Not woke enough. /sarcasm

all likelihood going to get his fucking ass handed to him in November anyway.

I've never thought he had what it takes to go up against Trump, but idk I mean there's an argument that all those people are actually right, and Biden actually is the strongest candidate? or the best placed to win at least. A lot of people are seeing something and if enough of them do it becomes self-fulfilling

hey dummies if we polled bernie vs biden on ilx biden would get maybe 2-3 votes if even and bernie would get everyone else so chill tf out

"hurr durr but biden is bad" literally everyone here agrees with you it doesn't matter we're a bubble stfu

Brad I can’t log off I can’t even go outside anymore bc I don’t want to catch the ‘vid

the cool stuff itt is being shouted over by cis white men even worse than if it was IRL

the cool stuff itt is being shouted over by cis white men even worse than if it was IRL

― El Tomboto, Friday, March 6, 2020 10:08 AM (four seconds ago) bookmarkflaglink

lol

Also, re: "voting against their interests", poor/middle-class/rich people who voted for Trump were absolutely voting for their interests; they wanted to see an autocrat go after people they've decided are their enemies. They may believe this will eventually lead to financial relief but the main catharsis of demonizing and punishing the other is what they are interested in and what they wanted, so they voted for it. Don't assume everyone's priority revolves around easing their own suffering when half the decisions made in this country have been about inflicting suffering on others.

the cool stuff itt is being shouted over by cis white men even worse than if it was IRL

the cool stuff itt is being shouted over by cis white men even worse than if it was IRL

_the cool stuff itt is being shouted over by cis white men even worse than if it was IRL_

that thing white ppl do when they disparage 'white ppl'🕸

who are Democrats backing Biden hoping will suffer?

Berniebros

will menaker

lol

I thought this was interesting re: older black voters choices. I don't really like the title as it's a bit hyperbolic but she makes some interesting points. I dont' know how any candidate successfully bridges these gaps with younger and older voters (regardless of race).

https://theslot.jezebel.com/the-deification-of-the-older-black-voter

"Don't assume everyone's priority revolves around easing their own suffering when half the decisions made in this country have been about inflicting suffering on others." absolutely. Scapegoating works.

is Biden support particularly strong among older black voters? I was under the impression the age gap was more or less universal

i assume biden will not redistribute will menaker's trust fund to the ppl

that gambit never works.

Sure about that? The Democratic nominees for president have won the popular vote in 6 out of the last 7 presidential elections. (And the only one they didn't was against an incumbent who still had 9/11 shine on him.) I feel like the line that "they keep nominating unpopular candidates" just isn't borne out by the data, if by "popular" you mean "preferred by a majority of people." The Electoral College fucked with two of those elections and may fuck with this year's too. But it's not true that "everybody hates the Dem nominees," or at least they don't hate them more than the Republicans.

then fuck it he just lost my vote xp

sorry in my attempt to snip off fb parameters so as not to offend sic, I broke that link

https://theslot.jezebel.com/the-deification-of-the-older-black-voter-1842064729

biden support appears to have been strong with older black voters in south carolina. I don't know about anywhere else.

who are Democrats backing Biden hoping will suffer?

The answer here is "Donald Trump", no?