Let's talk about Vice Magazine

Styles that will later dominate the mainstream and contribute to how we perceive a particular decade begin in media enclaves like Pitchfork and Vice. Actually, that's not even true; they begin in the art world. No, that's not true either, they begin in widespread social trends which artists are often the first to pick up on (the mainstream is usually slow to change its representations of the world, even when the world changes and moves on). Once they get into art shows, these new images and styles are legitimated: they begin to be seen as acceptable for wider use. People in advertising, music, publishing etc pick up on them, and soon (if they resonate with wider trends, ie the whole post-PC thing, or the fact that demographic growth in the US is coming from Asians and Hispanics rather than either the black or white populations) they reach the mainstream.

A case in point would be how Corinne Day's photos in the 90s (influenced by Nan Goldin) led to a moral panic over "heroin chic" which spilled out of the fashion world and left a mark on the 90s via "Trainspotting" etc. Heroin use in itself doesn't make "heroin chic" a legitimate style; it needs to be picked up by artists, then percolate through to wider cultural resonance via films, records, magazines, photographs... One consequence of this is that we wake up one morning and find that a particular sensibility is literally paying our bills.

I am rather glad though that Vice was not ahead of the game in making it OK for white people to call blacks "nigger" and "chink," and that the attempted resurrection of the "reclaiming the word!" ("reclaiming" by people who don't have the moral right to say what gets reclaimed when) trope seems to have died a richly-deserved death in the racial sphere anyhow (I wish it were still considered more bogus to call women "bitches" but you can't win 'em all)

Momus OTM however about how sexism doesn't get nearly the rise of of ilx that racism does, but this is my ol' hobby-horse

I don't say it all starts with Vice, but Vice is an important node on the network. Out of thousands of dud magazines, magazines that went nowhere, Vice is one that "knew what time it was" and positioned itself ahead of the curve. We're now seeing that sensibility go mainstream, which of course is the beginning of the end for Vice. But it has its place in the history of this decade now... and its thread on ILE. Which other magazines do we have threads on? Pitchfork? Also an important node on the network.

ihttp://itchylot.com/ck/jeans_details_march_95_4.jpg

http://itchylot.com/ck/jeans_details_march_95_3.jpg

xpost yeah THANKS LOADS TIMMY :)

One Vice cover had to be withdrawn because the subject actually was having sex with the photographer when the picture they ran on the cover was taken, and threatened to sue the magazine (she'd since split up with him acrimoniously). Terry R often sports naked with his models (in fact, he's published a book of pretty much just that). Look out for the Naked Conan O'Brien Show circa 2011! You read it here first!

This gets back to a favourite theme of mine: there is a politics to texture.

and biting nan goldin's thing hardly seems like a defense.

(i should add that i do find the aa ads sexy - ck not so much.)

This does not walk a fine line w/r/t rockism: it gives rockism a fantastic blowjob

HA. i think i was about half a block from going to this.

also nan goldin seemed to have a genuine interest in and affection for her subjects. where as the vice photos tend to have more of a check me out taking this edgy photo over here fratboy artist thing going.

Anyone who values their own personal dignity over selling records should get out of the business and go live in a fucking treehouse or something

hehe

http://www.terryrichardson.com/Start.html

http://curve-online.co.uk/images/discography/scans/1991/anxt27a.jpg

http://www.artcomnews.com/artistes2/clark/visu/oeuv01.jpg

1995 again

Momus, you'll never be able to write Rob Harvilla if you keep all this meta-ing up.

Fiona Apple was as behind the curve visually as the creative dirtector at her record company. Next.

Niii-iiick, y'think I don't KNOW what photographer is under discussion? And yes I think she was a crybaby hypocrite because I could guess the outcome if she had sex photos she took and wanted to use. They're both schmucks but he's the schweinhund I know.

I was at Francesco Vezzoli's documentary last night and all we did at the party al night was talk about these people.

People Who Only Read Literary Fiction, The New York Times, The New Yorker, Harpers, Vanity Fair, Instyle, Us, And Metal Magazines

(this is how boring i have become since my transgressive heyday)

http://a820.g.akamai.net/f/820/822/1d/i.ivillage.com/redbook/subscribe/rbkcdsmag.jpg

Let's talk about vice for now to the people at home or in the crowd
It keeps coming up anyhow
Don't decoy, avoid, or make void the topic
Cuz that ain't gonna stop it
Now we talk about vice on the radio and video shows
Many will know anything goes
Let's tell it how it is, and how it could be
How it was, and of course, how it should be
Those who think it's dirty have a choice
Pick up the needle, press pause, or turn the radio off
Will that stop us, Pep? I doubt it
All right then, come on, Spin

[CHORUS]

Hot to trot, make any man's eyes pop
She use what she got to get whatever she don't got
Fellas drool like fools, but then again they're only human
The chick was a hit because her body was boomin'
Gold, pearls, rubies, crazy diamonds
Nothin' she ever wore was ever common
Her dates heads of state, men of taste
Lawyers, doctors, no one was too great for her to get with
Or even mess with, the Prez she says was next on her list
And believe me, you, it's as good as true
There ain't a man alive that she couldn't get next to
She had it all in the bag so she should have been glad
But she was mad and sad and feelin' bad
Thinkin' about the things that she never had
No love, just vice, followed next with a check and a note
That last night was dope

Let's talk about vice, baby (sing it)
Let's talk about you and me (sing it, sing it)
Let's talk about all the good things
And the bad things that may be
Let's talk about vice (come on)
Let's talk about vice (do it)
Let's talk about vice (uh-huh)
Let's talk about vice